in my experience people really sleep on auras items. If you get unholy + endurance aura your units fucking RUN and it's so much easier to stack with the previous wave. It makes such a big diference in late game. Would 100% recommend in matches like this!
epic. especially the warden starting 25:00 its alive for ages. clutch bbv to save it at 28:13 and then stupidly dies at 29:27 although heal wave and blink was possible
Warcraft III Reforged Update 2.0 will cause: They are going to implement an Arcade system similar to Starcraft 2 but this will cause them to control the maps and become total authorship of Blizzard, being them who give you permission or not to modify them in the editor or even to have them, as happens in Starcraft, you have to log in to download the map within the editor if it is and if it lets you, because even if you have downloaded it through the Arcade or a custom campaign, it does not let you modify it or do something else in the editor, this is approved for future strategy games, not from Blizzard but from Microsoft, using Blizzard's strategy game system. It's an update that will conflict with community developed mods and maps, making them incompatible and Blizzard has already seen that people are interested in them, so they will seek to develop their own campaigns like Age of Empires or Age of Mythology. The problem is that they won't be of the quality of the community and if Blizzard can't monetize the community maps then at least it is convenient for Blizzard that they don't get in the way and take away profitability. This system is the one that has been seen in Starcraft 2, and Age of Mythology, and Doom 1, and even Bethesda games with the Creation Kit, the problem is that it will take away the total freedom that everyone is used to with Warcraft 3 and replace it with a control system like with Starcraft. This is to implement future microtransactions, whether cosmetics, accessories or interfaces. The problem with this is that it will conflict with every mod and map ever created for Warcraft 3, especially old and current maps from the Epicware hive workshop page. In order to have full control over fan and community creations, they don't seek to improve, they only seek to obtain more benefits and profitability, and if they can't get them at least eliminate the competition so that it doesn't get in the way of their goals, even if that obstacle is doing a better job than Blizzard.
~@9:00 - "building a 3rd mine right now would be the worst possible thing I could do now". Edit: After playing more, this post was wrong - it was basing an evaluation as if the value of your army matters. It could potentially be right if you play the map 1v1, since there's less wave stacking and no hero stacking, but 3v3 is a different story. Trust the people that have a lot of experience in this game. Gold basically doesn't matter. Even controlling mid in WC3 DS is NOT about the gold (by contrast, in SC2 DS, it is, because there are no heroes, and mid is also worth twice as much in that.) - it's more about the advantage wave state giving you the advantage in hero XP, which is even more important snowballing an advantage than an extra unit or upgrade after 5-6 minutes. Giving up units now means you lose harder now and your hero falls further behind in XP compared to your opponent. Later in the game, wave stacking is can overturn basically any potential gold advantage anyway, so compositions matter more than the gold value of armies. Mathematically speaking, it's the opposite - it was the best possible thing you could do right then, because the mines would definitely pay off later and help you keep up in gold with the enemy team. By not building the mine when the overall fight is clearly decided in the other team's favor, you're cementing your position of being economically behind, which means that as long as your opponents hold mid, you will only fall further behind, and even if you do start pushing back, it will take quite a long time before you start re-taking mid regardless, likely longer than it would take for the mine to pay off. (Disregarding hero strength/XP gain - if the fight is very close such that the unit is making the difference between their hero dying vs your army or surviving, that can be an argument for throwing down the units, but it often isn't - in this game, it was not. Their hero continued to survive the wave and meet the next army, so you weren't really denying any XP.) Indeed, in that game, you didn't retake mid for ~16 minutes after that statement, at which point, the mine would have paid for itself more than twice over (Net gain of over 300 gold, which could have been another full mountain giant or T3 upgrade)... Going 4th mine ASAP would actually have been the best thing you could have done at that point in the game, because you were already clearly losing the overall fight/mid control was solidly in the hands of the enemy team, and it was not going to turn around any time soon even if your composition got a bit better. Yes, you ultimately ended up winning close to 32 minutes later, but that was because your team just had better heroes. If you had built mines, the win would likely have actually come faster, as your rebound push would have been stronger. That's ~800/1400 gold that was missed out on towards the end of the game because you didn't build the 3rd/4th mines when it was likely the right time to do so from a mathematical perspective, because the opportunity cost was essentially null at that time - more units definitely would not turn things around fast enough for mines to not be worth building.
Dude you are so right and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills about this. Everyone will flame you when you get gold mines without putting any logical thought behind it. You're absolutely correct that if the new unit would make a difference then it might be worth reconsidering getting another mine, but in many cases it is a no-brainer.
On another note to give a definitive answer to the mine vs no mine R1 debate: On first wave, you can only hold mid for about 13 seconds at most even if it's uncontested (I've been timing it recently). It's less than 20 gold for the entire team. You literally gain less gold for the entire team by delaying the mine to fight for mid control in the first round than by building the mine and making no units whatsoever. Delaying mine by a minute or so to fight for R1 control has no benefit - in fact it's more likely to hurt you. The one exception is if the other player starts with a ranged unit or positions their units badly and ends up giving you control during the fight, but at that point, whether or not you built the mine doesn't matter.
@@Matt-ln7lb You need to check your sense of time lol. Even in this very video here you can see mid was held for far longer than 13 seconds. Did you just forget it's 35 seconds between wave spawns? Moreover, if the next round of people are evenly matched, the entire time they fight the mid bonus will stay with the previous winner. So you skipping mine round 1 not only cost you mid bonus for your wave, but also a good chunk of the second wave while 3 footmen slowly punch 3 other footmen, all while the opponent reaps the rewards of mid. You really need to check your math before thinking you're so enlightened. There's a reason the dominant strategy for years and in tournaments in SC2 direct strike is to not mine until you firmly have mid control. You could learn from years of experience there. Or at least do your math right.
@@thesustraveler In the first wave, it is held from 0:54 to 1:06 (on the DS timer ~+55s in video time) (it drops off just before 1:07) in this game. That's ~12 seconds, or ~6 gold per player./18 gold for the team. They are dead long before the enemy units for wave 2 arrive anyway. In the wave 2, the enemy player holds it for ~15 seconds, because the allied player built a banshee and they got control for a bit while fighting it instead of running directly into tower. That's 7.5 gold per player. In wave 3, gold control was less than 3 seconds because Grubby denied it by splitting his units so one could slip by (had the opponent similarly split, they could still have gotten control, but it would have only been for a similar 15s or so). Gold control is lost as soon as the units die. It doesn't stay held until the next wave. The few units you can afford at that point die in about 3 seconds to the tower, and it takes less than 10s to go from mid to the tower.
@@Matt-ln7lb Ok I see where your confusion is coming from and why you've fundamentally misunderstood the early game. This explains so much. "Gold control is lost as soon as the units die. It doesn't stay held until the next wave" This is incorrect. Mid bonus is held until the other team crosses mid while the team that previously held mid no longer has a unit past mid. In other words, to be VERY explicit: if you lose mid round 1 to team 2, then both teams sell all their units and sit there, team 2 will have the mid bonus forever.
Grubby threw game at first with his really bad early game. Then he didn't bought aura items, but instead survivability items or more units. At that point in the game, aura stacking is king. Also, his upgrades are woefully late.
at start : rushing t3 bc lavaspawn is so uncharacteristic of Grubby. he is a pro at strategy, aka weighing things. you dont see him building 10 towers in meele to defend against a t2 timed attack, yet here he did the equivalent : D . 100% a meme decision, the price of 2 units spent on +2 units deals with lavaspawns better. 20 footies (no hero no t2) would have absolutely took care of that 10+hero army early in the vid, critical mass, snowball dps. but im at odds with this thing myself, not always choosing well when to introduce the hero to not lose momentum but not fall behind either.
@Grubby. My first pick is made on "normal, pierce, magic" damages. We agree that HH or rifle is highest damage for cost of tech. So I hero first, rest of gold for units. Save to insta gold after first wave on, until mine 3 or 4. I tech once I have finished all useful t1 upgrades and shop items and once t1 units are simply lose. my eyes, footman spam is more cost efficient in gaining mid now, than the late game value of MG+the cost of tech now. In ladder would you go t3 without maxing your gold mine and lumber first? lol. (Unless to experiment)
Is BBV too strong? xD even without "micro" it seems too good, guy did very impactful ults and didn't even know how to turn it off and on. Making your whole army invulnerable where armies aren't microable around it seems pretty gamebreaking to me. How do you even counter that? An opposing army will just lose
I mean any good Ulti combination is kinda busted locus swarm, and summon Phoenix and infernal could replace any of these and still it be a good combination.
grubby still doesn't seem to get that mass tier 1 with upgrades >>>>> tier 3 units. The only tier 3 units that are worth going for are mountain giants and destroyers. Otherwise , mass ranged tier 1 (archers/headhunters/etc) will absolutly shred everything. The mode is very skewed towards damage. Nothing is a true tank in this game. And counters to mass tier 1 are strong heroes.. He quite literally got carried this game by the warden and the shaman guy
Truth nuke. Unironically rushing mines and mass tier 1 units with delayed hero seems to be the best. Maybe tier 2 after a while. However I do think tier3 is overrated given the cost
Love all your content but miss the ladder games and the request funny games. It's actually giving me depression that I can't watch you play a crazy strategy and then try to copy it. Been playing alot of DC since you switched but I'm missing the old content too.
Nobody cares about Direct Strike. But I`m glad that you`re playing something that you enjoy. I actually care about Grubby the person, and not just Grubby the pro-player, pro-streamer. So I`m happy that you`re enjoying it. It`s pretty obvious that you were miserable playing melee WC3, and was doing it only for your long-time fans, and I hated that. Don`t ever play a game that you no longer enjoy just because you feel like your old fans want it. I am *genuinelly* happy that you're happy, Grubby.🙂I'm glad that you finally found a substitute for DOTA2, your true passion. BTW, I`m watching you play DS even though I'm not a big fan. I'll watch you play anything, because you're my favorite player ever and I'm loyal like that. Hell, I'd watch you play chess, even though those games would probably not be very high level(I think chess is probably the only game that I could beat you).
Watching Grubby play ds is so infuriating. I am astounded how slowly/poorly he is learning. Surely, someone with his level of experience with rts would make him better than me at judging value. 9 minutes in and I cant continue I am at 1650 mmr after ~25 games on wc3 champs, I am no expert.
I feel you, brother. However, although he's amazing at understanding unit counters, he's never had to manage tempo quite like this. Let's cut him some slack. Learning mine timings, when to sell units, teching to win a lost lane -- it's all different from melee. I get where you're coming from though. Same MMR with similar amount of games.
It's funny watching Grubby draft his picks because we're never on the same wavelength. I see him pick sick anti air and get offered destro, instantly I'm right there poging out that we can go destro and obliterate any attempted anti air counters in the sky, and then he goes mountain giants! Not that I'm an expert at this game mode or anything but that just doesn't feel right to me.
Apologies for the winning, but as exciting as it is to watch you play or coach normal games, where dexterity mentality reflex and spot choices are your superb advantages, Direct strike is the exact opposite of that. Game knowledge only. I understand that this may be a slower period for you that you may want to cool off, but boy, is it dull compared to the usual content.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Seeing starfall on that many units affected is always a sight to behold
15:59 First time hearing Grubby actually doing the Berserkers sound. Really happy to hear it
"Getting the middle is worth 6 mines" proceeds to go insta tier 3 and 2 gold mine XDD
Direct Strike is really fun to see! I'd like to see more! thanks Grubby!
in my experience people really sleep on auras items. If you get unholy + endurance aura your units fucking RUN and it's so much easier to stack with the previous wave. It makes such a big diference in late game.
Would 100% recommend in matches like this!
Yep, most of my late game wins are due to double auras helping me stack with ally
Insane value Warden and crazy good bbv
epic. especially the warden starting 25:00 its alive for ages. clutch bbv to save it at 28:13 and then stupidly dies at 29:27 although heal wave and blink was possible
its cool to see bbv & starfall & earthquake being meta considering they're so niche in 1v1. amazing synergies!
Warcraft III Reforged Update 2.0 will cause: They are going to implement an Arcade system similar to Starcraft 2 but this will cause them to control the maps and become total authorship of Blizzard, being them who give you permission or not to modify them in the editor or even to have them, as happens in Starcraft, you have to log in to download the map within the editor if it is and if it lets you, because even if you have downloaded it through the Arcade or a custom campaign, it does not let you modify it or do something else in the editor, this is approved for future strategy games, not from Blizzard but from Microsoft, using Blizzard's strategy game system. It's an update that will conflict with community developed mods and maps, making them incompatible and Blizzard has already seen that people are interested in them, so they will seek to develop their own campaigns like Age of Empires or Age of Mythology. The problem is that they won't be of the quality of the community and if Blizzard can't monetize the community maps then at least it is convenient for Blizzard that they don't get in the way and take away profitability. This system is the one that has been seen in Starcraft 2, and Age of Mythology, and Doom 1, and even Bethesda games with the Creation Kit, the problem is that it will take away the total freedom that everyone is used to with Warcraft 3 and replace it with a control system like with Starcraft. This is to implement future microtransactions, whether cosmetics, accessories or interfaces. The problem with this is that it will conflict with every mod and map ever created for Warcraft 3, especially old and current maps from the Epicware hive workshop page. In order to have full control over fan and community creations, they don't seek to improve, they only seek to obtain more benefits and profitability, and if they can't get them at least eliminate the competition so that it doesn't get in the way of their goals, even if that obstacle is doing a better job than Blizzard.
The Troll hard carried. Much respect.
Technically, the Troll did hard support, Grubby carried. Look at scoretable :)
Blink on a warden with full auras seems pretty strong for pushing from behind
We did it Logan!
Best part of video!!!
~@9:00 - "building a 3rd mine right now would be the worst possible thing I could do now".
Edit: After playing more, this post was wrong - it was basing an evaluation as if the value of your army matters. It could potentially be right if you play the map 1v1, since there's less wave stacking and no hero stacking, but 3v3 is a different story.
Trust the people that have a lot of experience in this game. Gold basically doesn't matter. Even controlling mid in WC3 DS is NOT about the gold (by contrast, in SC2 DS, it is, because there are no heroes, and mid is also worth twice as much in that.) - it's more about the advantage wave state giving you the advantage in hero XP, which is even more important snowballing an advantage than an extra unit or upgrade after 5-6 minutes. Giving up units now means you lose harder now and your hero falls further behind in XP compared to your opponent. Later in the game, wave stacking is can overturn basically any potential gold advantage anyway, so compositions matter more than the gold value of armies.
Mathematically speaking, it's the opposite - it was the best possible thing you could do right then, because the mines would definitely pay off later and help you keep up in gold with the enemy team. By not building the mine when the overall fight is clearly decided in the other team's favor, you're cementing your position of being economically behind, which means that as long as your opponents hold mid, you will only fall further behind, and even if you do start pushing back, it will take quite a long time before you start re-taking mid regardless, likely longer than it would take for the mine to pay off. (Disregarding hero strength/XP gain - if the fight is very close such that the unit is making the difference between their hero dying vs your army or surviving, that can be an argument for throwing down the units, but it often isn't - in this game, it was not. Their hero continued to survive the wave and meet the next army, so you weren't really denying any XP.)
Indeed, in that game, you didn't retake mid for ~16 minutes after that statement, at which point, the mine would have paid for itself more than twice over (Net gain of over 300 gold, which could have been another full mountain giant or T3 upgrade)... Going 4th mine ASAP would actually have been the best thing you could have done at that point in the game, because you were already clearly losing the overall fight/mid control was solidly in the hands of the enemy team, and it was not going to turn around any time soon even if your composition got a bit better.
Yes, you ultimately ended up winning close to 32 minutes later, but that was because your team just had better heroes. If you had built mines, the win would likely have actually come faster, as your rebound push would have been stronger. That's ~800/1400 gold that was missed out on towards the end of the game because you didn't build the 3rd/4th mines when it was likely the right time to do so from a mathematical perspective, because the opportunity cost was essentially null at that time - more units definitely would not turn things around fast enough for mines to not be worth building.
Dude you are so right and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills about this. Everyone will flame you when you get gold mines without putting any logical thought behind it. You're absolutely correct that if the new unit would make a difference then it might be worth reconsidering getting another mine, but in many cases it is a no-brainer.
On another note to give a definitive answer to the mine vs no mine R1 debate:
On first wave, you can only hold mid for about 13 seconds at most even if it's uncontested (I've been timing it recently). It's less than 20 gold for the entire team. You literally gain less gold for the entire team by delaying the mine to fight for mid control in the first round than by building the mine and making no units whatsoever. Delaying mine by a minute or so to fight for R1 control has no benefit - in fact it's more likely to hurt you.
The one exception is if the other player starts with a ranged unit or positions their units badly and ends up giving you control during the fight, but at that point, whether or not you built the mine doesn't matter.
@@Matt-ln7lb You need to check your sense of time lol. Even in this very video here you can see mid was held for far longer than 13 seconds. Did you just forget it's 35 seconds between wave spawns?
Moreover, if the next round of people are evenly matched, the entire time they fight the mid bonus will stay with the previous winner. So you skipping mine round 1 not only cost you mid bonus for your wave, but also a good chunk of the second wave while 3 footmen slowly punch 3 other footmen, all while the opponent reaps the rewards of mid.
You really need to check your math before thinking you're so enlightened. There's a reason the dominant strategy for years and in tournaments in SC2 direct strike is to not mine until you firmly have mid control. You could learn from years of experience there. Or at least do your math right.
@@thesustraveler In the first wave, it is held from 0:54 to 1:06 (on the DS timer ~+55s in video time) (it drops off just before 1:07) in this game. That's ~12 seconds, or ~6 gold per player./18 gold for the team. They are dead long before the enemy units for wave 2 arrive anyway.
In the wave 2, the enemy player holds it for ~15 seconds, because the allied player built a banshee and they got control for a bit while fighting it instead of running directly into tower. That's 7.5 gold per player.
In wave 3, gold control was less than 3 seconds because Grubby denied it by splitting his units so one could slip by (had the opponent similarly split, they could still have gotten control, but it would have only been for a similar 15s or so).
Gold control is lost as soon as the units die. It doesn't stay held until the next wave. The few units you can afford at that point die in about 3 seconds to the tower, and it takes less than 10s to go from mid to the tower.
@@Matt-ln7lb Ok I see where your confusion is coming from and why you've fundamentally misunderstood the early game. This explains so much.
"Gold control is lost as soon as the units die. It doesn't stay held until the next wave"
This is incorrect. Mid bonus is held until the other team crosses mid while the team that previously held mid no longer has a unit past mid.
In other words, to be VERY explicit: if you lose mid round 1 to team 2, then both teams sell all their units and sit there, team 2 will have the mid bonus forever.
Imagine having Death and decay on that last fight lol
"Terra's Holy Combo?" - My Dissidia brain.
Captain on the bridge
Your sound card works perfectly
Grubby threw game at first with his really bad early game. Then he didn't bought aura items, but instead survivability items or more units. At that point in the game, aura stacking is king. Also, his upgrades are woefully late.
at start : rushing t3 bc lavaspawn is so uncharacteristic of Grubby. he is a pro at strategy, aka weighing things. you dont see him building 10 towers in meele to defend against a t2 timed attack, yet here he did the equivalent : D . 100% a meme decision, the price of 2 units spent on +2 units deals with lavaspawns better.
20 footies (no hero no t2) would have absolutely took care of that 10+hero army early in the vid, critical mass, snowball dps.
but im at odds with this thing myself, not always choosing well when to introduce the hero to not lose momentum but not fall behind either.
@Grubby. My first pick is made on "normal, pierce, magic" damages. We agree that HH or rifle is highest damage for cost of tech. So I hero first, rest of gold for units. Save to insta gold after first wave on, until mine 3 or 4. I tech once I have finished all useful t1 upgrades and shop items and once t1 units are simply lose. my eyes, footman spam is more cost efficient in gaining mid now, than the late game value of MG+the cost of tech now. In ladder would you go t3 without maxing your gold mine and lumber first? lol. (Unless to experiment)
Me "MG isn't 310... It's 310per+250+450+100+150 before full value is reached" I can justify the cost of 4 mines
shadow hunter is SSS tier
Alwats felt good when winning with late game strat
I'm on a -- no wait, I AM THE MFIN BOAT.
Is BBV too strong? xD even without "micro" it seems too good, guy did very impactful ults and didn't even know how to turn it off and on. Making your whole army invulnerable where armies aren't microable around it seems pretty gamebreaking to me. How do you even counter that? An opposing army will just lose
6:31 I mean he did keep the mine buff on his team
I mean any good Ulti combination is kinda busted locus swarm, and summon Phoenix and infernal could replace any of these and still it be a good combination.
BBV the MVP 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
I miss Grubby playing regular WC3
Grubs if you were going to only build 1 footmen and 1 archer you coulda just gone for bloodlust :P
The warden solo carried the game
This guy is so addicted to wc3 direct strike is crazy 💀
INSANE GAME!!
Leaving a +Like just because of "We pop the WOWO" 😆😆
Will we have some more normal classic warcraft 3 again? :D?
if Grubby really enjoys this game, shouldn't he play what he enjoys
the one person in chat going BOAT, I see you and recognize you fellow martincitopants watcher
Shadow Hunter the GOAT
So how long until you try out dota auto chess?
Yesterday I watched, you celebrate reaching lvl 30 and now you're already 35. xD
That's a hell of game
how do you play this gamemode?
Here goes my sleep schedule
Ich vermiss deine normalen Games - mag nicht dieses DirectStrike .. schade das da nix mehr kommt grubby
Es ist nicht so schlect. Er spielt dota 2 auch nicht mehr. Warte und seh :)
(Entschuldigung für mein Deutsch)
Schade
grub is hilarious
grubby still doesn't seem to get that mass tier 1 with upgrades >>>>> tier 3 units. The only tier 3 units that are worth going for are mountain giants and destroyers. Otherwise , mass ranged tier 1 (archers/headhunters/etc) will absolutly shred everything.
The mode is very skewed towards damage. Nothing is a true tank in this game. And counters to mass tier 1 are strong heroes..
He quite literally got carried this game by the warden and the shaman guy
Truth nuke. Unironically rushing mines and mass tier 1 units with delayed hero seems to be the best. Maybe tier 2 after a while. However I do think tier3 is overrated given the cost
Good day to fight
Love all your content but miss the ladder games and the request funny games. It's actually giving me depression that I can't watch you play a crazy strategy and then try to copy it. Been playing alot of DC since you switched but I'm missing the old content too.
Nobody cares about Direct Strike. But I`m glad that you`re playing something that you enjoy. I actually care about Grubby the person, and not just Grubby the pro-player, pro-streamer. So I`m happy that you`re enjoying it. It`s pretty obvious that you were miserable playing melee WC3, and was doing it only for your long-time fans, and I hated that. Don`t ever play a game that you no longer enjoy just because you feel like your old fans want it. I am *genuinelly* happy that you're happy, Grubby.🙂I'm glad that you finally found a substitute for DOTA2, your true passion. BTW, I`m watching you play DS even though I'm not a big fan. I'll watch you play anything, because you're my favorite player ever and I'm loyal like that. Hell, I'd watch you play chess, even though those games would probably not be very high level(I think chess is probably the only game that I could beat you).
LIKE IF YOU CARE ABOUT DS ✊
Watching Grubby play ds is so infuriating. I am astounded how slowly/poorly he is learning. Surely, someone with his level of experience with rts would make him better than me at judging value. 9 minutes in and I cant continue
I am at 1650 mmr after ~25 games on wc3 champs, I am no expert.
I feel you, brother. However, although he's amazing at understanding unit counters, he's never had to manage tempo quite like this.
Let's cut him some slack. Learning mine timings, when to sell units, teching to win a lost lane -- it's all different from melee.
I get where you're coming from though. Same MMR with similar amount of games.
He's sharing all his insights with us... so we're benefiting from everything he's learning through watching him.
It's funny watching Grubby draft his picks because we're never on the same wavelength. I see him pick sick anti air and get offered destro, instantly I'm right there poging out that we can go destro and obliterate any attempted anti air counters in the sky, and then he goes mountain giants! Not that I'm an expert at this game mode or anything but that just doesn't feel right to me.
And yet you put SH in A tier 😅
Rigged game
Worst opening ever
Apologies for the winning, but as exciting as it is to watch you play or coach normal games, where dexterity mentality reflex and spot choices are your superb advantages,
Direct strike is the exact opposite of that. Game knowledge only.
I understand that this may be a slower period for you that you may want to cool off, but boy, is it dull compared to the usual content.