Repertoire: The BEST Beethoven String Quartet Cycles
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Beethoven wrote sixteen string quartets, and so here are sixteen excellent string quartet cycles. The history of these works on disc is also the history of quartet playing in the twentieth century more generally. There are too many fine versions from which to choose, and in the end it all boils down to your personal preference. So here are my favorites, both new and old; but any of these sets will serve very well as an introduction to these extraordinary works.
Musical Example courtesy of Supraphon Records 
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For those of us who don’t listen to the string quartets often, this is a truly useful listener’s guide. Thanks for putting this together Dave!
Add my enthusiastic second to all your fans who discovered the Suske Quartet's disks. For dirt cheap (20 bucks for the whole set), these people really levitate the texture of the music and make it fly with beautiful technique and attention to variety of tone color from all 4 instruments. Great recorded sound from the late '60s also. a real discovery! Thanks Dave.
Currently, the Quartetto Italiano Beethoven's No.15 is my favorite thing in music...
The review suggests that the Quartetto Italiano offers an almost operatic approach to these quartets. It is very different and valid. There are works for which different approaches can be equally valid. I have the Berg box, and I would not give it up for the Quartetto Italiano, but there are times when I might prefer the Quartetto Italiano.
There is not and neber will be a perfect, definitive performance of any legitimate masterpiece I have several recordings of Bach's sites for solo cello because it is open to so many different, valid expressions.
Excellent performances for sure!
Dear David, I have had the pleasure of watching several of your RUclips videos over the past six months. I have always enjoyed myself thoroughly, and you have a knack of imparting knowledge I was unaware of on every occasion, which is really no mean feat. Thank you so much for providing us listeners with the opportunity to learn and to enjoy!
Awesome, thank you!
Great discussion. I grew up with the analog Budapest set. In 12th grade I discovered the Hungarian. Their story made it even more impressive. As the years went by I added the Italians, the Talich, the Vegh, the Tokyo. I found myself returning most often to the Talich. Eventually I added others - Lindsay, Alexander, and even looked at the new Ebene cycle, but my shelf overflows. Finally I gave the ones I listen to least to others, for as you say, they are all good. I return mostly to the Talich, the Vegh, and the Italiano. But I still go back to my original Budapest every so often just to recall the early wonder of discovery I experienced in those days. Thanks again for a great tour of this amazing performance array of one of the pinnacles of music and indeed of Western civilization.
Finally, somebody mentioned the Suske quartet. It has been one of my favorite Beethoven cycles for years. If they haven't been from East Germany they would have been better known.
So glad you mentioned the cello playing on the Quartetto Italian recordings. It’s haunted me ever since I heard their recording of Schubert’s quartet no. 15 on Phillips. Absolutely sublime. Also of note is the Belcea’s recording of the Debussy quartet. Their playing has an elegance and ethereal quality that I haven’t heard in any other performance. But the the highlight of your talk was your mentioning Chilean sea bass! 😂🤣
Thank you for the wonderful overview, David. I love so many of the sets you mentioned. Even so, none of them are definitive. That's not to take anything away from them, but you can't be definitive with music like this. The Beethoven String Quartets are simply too big for any one ensemble to represent the best of every detail - especially when some details can have two or three or more contradictory but amazing ways to be played! I often pick through which set I want to listen to based on whether I'm dipping in to the early, middle or late period. At other times, it's totally dependent on which particular quartet I want to listen to or even based on the ensemble,itself, and the approach I want to hear today.
I am enjoying the Tokyo Quartet's second run through on Harmonia Mundi. The sound is pristine and the their tone is beautiful. I did some comparing between their Razumovsky No. 1 opening and a number of Dave's selections and came back to this one.
wow you made my day.. T H A N K S ! Beethoven's SQs are so darn special, listening to the Elias Q. right now
I am so glad that Dave mentioned the Belcea Quartet! This has been my go to version for a while now! Great energy and spirit in the quick movements and fabulous soul searching in the slow movements,especially in the late quartets
Agreed! Even more so, after I heard them live in three concerts with this music.
The Hungarian string quartet is just superb in Op. 59 no 1. Must listen rendition !
Thanks David for another great video !
Thank you for this particular review and overview, David! I agree with you that the Beethoven string quartet cycle is something very special!
You're right, as a listener I was influenced by what I heard growing up. My parents played Beethoven cycles by the Amadeus Quartet and Quartetto Italiano when I was a kid. And in addition to those two (now on CDs), I do love the Takacs recording, as well as the Emerson cycle. More recently, I have added the Prazak Quartet cycle, as well as both Tokyo Quartet cycles. And for good measure I have an incomplete cycle on five CDs by the Borodin Quartet. Different recordings appeal at different times.
While I have not heard a complete live Beethoven cycle by a single quartet in a short space of time, I have been fortunate to hear all of these quartets (except the Italiano), and many others, including the Juilliard, Guarneri, Belcea, Alban Berg, Mandelring, Pavel Haas, Miro, Dover, Pacifica, Endellion and Lindsay Quartets playing one or more of the 15 (or 16) in the Beethoven cycle in concerts over the past five decades. What a joy!
Marvelous presentation! I'd like to add to your picks Prazak and Auryn Quartet, which are my new favorites. Thank you.
I love them both too. Thanks for mentioning them.
Thank you so much for this one. I bought the digital Alban Berg set many years ago as my first Beethoven quartet taster, when it was at a knockdown bargain price and no others were. I didn't much like what I heard, so I went away from the pieces. But today, I have been putting on the first Rasumovsky quartet as a side by side comparison on the stream today between Smetana, Miro and Belcea and I do like the Smetana version, but I also found myself drawn to the Miro version - I like their slightly astringent, but deeply expressed tone. (It could also be that I like their Miro - inspired cover art...? I remember being drawn to the Emerson Quartet because I like Emerson's poetry...). So now Melbourne is put into another lockdown, I will find myself keeping on listening for the first time to the Beethoven quartets, comparing the Smetana and Miro as I go. Thanks again so much for these talks.
Glad you picked out the Miro Quartet. It's superb.
Thanks to your recommendation here I finally picked up the Talich cycle. I've heard multiple recordings and live performances of these works over the years, and the Talich are something special. They bring out the music's intricate lines lines and their interpretation is so lively and characterful! I'm eager to hear more performances by them. Next on the list for me to try is the Smetana Quartet.
Great to hear! Thanks for the update.
Great video Dave ! Love how you put the whole thing together with schools of performance, heritage, nationality, etc. I have way too many of these, because in fact Beethoven and his chamber music is my favorite part of his output. I come back a lot to the Italiano, Vegh, Talich and my sleeper, the Tokyo. We are indeed awash in a sea of quality. The Italiano in the adagio of opus 132 is to me, my favorite performance of anything chamber wise! I'm up early, preparing for a medical procedure, this video cheered me up, thank you.
Paul G.
All the best! I hope everything goes well.
A great survey of some of the great Beethoven cycles. From the more recent cycles I particularly like the Artemis Quartet on Erato, we’ll balanced, we’ll recorded and elegant playing. With the Belvea Quartet cycle imo the best from the past 2/3 decades.
Thank you for your fine presentation. My Beethoven quartet imprinting came from the cited Juilliard/Sony 1960s analogue cycle, supplemented by some of the Yale Quartet/Vanguard recordings of the same time. Of the recordings you have discussed I am especially drawn to Supraphon Smetana cycle. It sounds fresh, vivid, with a truly rich and resonant string sonority, like the cello in op 59/1. There are indeed so many excellent Beethoven quartet cycles to choose from. In addition to the wonderful and satisfying cycles of Tokyo/RCA, Hungarian Qt mono/EMI, and Talich/Calliope, I also have a very polished, beautiful reading of the cycle by the Gewandhaus-Quartett on NCA. The Gewandhaus has transparent, immaculate sound, superb intonation, and shares something of the warmth and affection of the Quartetto Italiano. I just wish it also had a little more in the way of energy, volatility, and excitement. A big disappointment has been the the last full Borodin Quartet cycle recorded in the early 2000s and released by Chandos in 2009. This set features an exciting and spectacular first violinist, Ruben Aharonian, but is sadly undone by the weak cello of Valentin Berlinsky, who was already in technical decline in the 1990s but did not retire until 2007. Old-fashioned portamento may also put some listeners off. The Borodin set illustrates your observation in behalf of the Smetana Qt recording that great string quartet playing is anchored by a strong bass line with clarity and definition in the lower voices.
The Gewandhaus-Quartett on NCA is the best I've heard. Flawless. There is also a very new cycle by the young Dover quartet that is fabulous if you've never heard it.
Great talk, thank you David! I absolutely adore the Talich Quartet as well, I couldn't help but thinking your description of balance really fits them. Beautiful sound, great intonation, have rhythmic energy and drive in the late quartets.
Any plans to do individual videos for the late quartets and Grose Fugue? Some groups don't record all the quartets but particularly excel in the late quartets, Petersen Quartett is one that comes to mind.
Oy! Give me a break! I don't rule anything out, but I can't say when...perhaps if some new recordings come up I'll get to it sooner rather than later.
So glad to discover the Smetana recordings - looking forward to listening to them all. Very partial to the later Tokyo cycle on HM, but haven't heard the earlier one you selected. Also, on period instruments, (though they haven't done a complete cycle), I love the Quatuor Mosaique (likewise their Mozart and Haydn).
Would also love your thoughts on the Bartok string quartets. And another quick suggestion: maybe an overview of each of the different "Orchestra-owned" labels, like LSO Live, LPO, BPO, CSO Resound etc., maybe selecting your own personal highlights of each label.... These labels are putting out so many discs it's hard to keep track.
Thank you very much for making us aware of the Suske quartet. I would never have heard that cycle without your recommendation. I immensely enjoy it. Love also the Talich, italiano, Juilliard. But I think this holds it own. For me a major quality of the Suske cycle is their understanding of the bigger form. Without neglecting details they always seem to have in mind how they relate to the bigger developments and the overall form. And this is crucial for the classical style (as you teach us in the Haydn crusade, that I can't recommend highly enough). And that is often lacking in the conducting of Andris Nelsons. I was quite excited when I first heard him in my hometown Munich with Zarathustra. But other concerts left me frustrated, especially of symphonic music of beethoven, brahms, Dvorak. A lot of schöne Stellen/beautiful bits but lack of sense for the bigger scheme. Quite frustrating that we'll get more of that micro managing from Rattle in Munich in the future.
“And this is how you can tell they’re modern, because they have colored blobs. But four of them, get it? It’s a quartet, you know? I wonder who the little blob is.” Someone needs to make a compilation of your little asides... :)
Loved this. Thank you. Some of the most sublime music we have.
So true David: it's an embarassment of riches (and the Smetana and Belcea I didn't know: what a couple of outstanding sets!).
But for me Beethoven will always be incarnated by Quartetto Italiano: I just love their ensemble sound, that perfect mixture of mellowness and rhythmic acuity, that passion expressed with infinite elegance and clarity.
Quartetto Italiano is the string quartet equivalent to Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli - and in my book there are few, if any, highest praises.
So glad you mentioned the Tokyo Quartet! That's a favourite of mine, along with the Italiano. Also their second (RCA) Bartok cycle which is always overlooked. I agree with you about the Emersons too. Their amazing Shostakovich cycle seems to be sniffed at as well these days. I thought you might mention the Borodin Quartet on Chandos?
The Chandos/Borodin (early 2000s) cycle has some fabulous fiddling (e.g., op 74 first movement) but the set is compromised by the cellist Valentin Berlinsky, who was way past his prime when these were recorded. Balances are way off. The Borodin set is not competitive, despite the truly exceptional first violinist and very good violist.
As always, thank you very much for your talk. Mahler reportedly said that a symphony should include the whole world. Much as I enjoy Mahler, Beethoven is a universe himself, and his quartets are a full galaxy. As such, they are a template for us listeners to enjoy and for string players to enlighten each landscape of that musical galaxy. I regret that I am only acquainted with Tokyo, Berg, Talich and Budapest, but that means that I have at least 12 more galactic expeditions to cover.
Oh, there are lots more than that! So please, take your time. Thanks for watching.
Great Video, thank you very much for good references. My new boxes are Belcea, Artemis and Philharmonia Q. (German tradition, Members of Berlin Phil.), my ‚old school‘ box: Quartetto Italiano (great!!!). Yesterday I ordered blind trusting your reference the box with Juilliard Quartet.
After resisting getting the Leipzig Quartet set on the basis that I already had plenty of cycles, I was finally persuaded to buy it. I was not disappointed - it's wonderful!
Glad you think so!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Not the 'supersonic' Hagen? The Paris CRR conservatory gave not so long ago a mini festival of Beethoven, with a good selection of Quartets by different student ensembles. One of the groups moved and impressed me a lot. Maybe wrong but I found them in the 15th Quartet much more far reaching than the Tackacs live or even Belcea -whom I had revered but who disappointed me in the hall, impressive but too 'pretty' to my little ears. I hope they go on.
On account of your review, Miró has skyrocketed to among the top of my list! Their Op. 59/1…. Yes!!!!
Wonderful overview. So glad you noted the Suske and con fronted the "vintage is better" crowd. I agree with you regarding the Tokyo and the Emerson. The wonderful thing about these works is how there is so much room for interpretation. This makes them fun to collect and offers a viable excuse for owning so many sets. I think Beethoven's evolution as a composer is more glaring within these works than any of his others. As musically rich as his late Symphonies and Piano Sonatas are, his late Quartets are so transcendent, they quelled even Glenn Gould's rather capricious and surely indictments of Beethoven. If one is ever doubtful of the maestro's label as "The Revolutionary", the late quartets will convert them of their atheism.
That said, I really wished the Yale Quartet had a complete set. Their offerings of the late Quartets are so enjoyable. The same with the Hollywood String Quartet.
One overlooked set is the Alexander. They crackle and sizzle in all right places and give an interesting exploration of the depths of the innovations found within late quartets.
Again, wonderful overview and observations.
Are you referring to their first or second attempt?
Both very strong, imo.
The first box set (on Arte Nova) has a louder than usual viola, on all the recordings.
Insightful and interesting as always ! Loved the Smetana excerpt . Any thoughts about the Alexander String Quartet on Foghorn ? One of my favorites . Thanks !
Lovely discussion. Thank you. What do you think of the Pascal cycle? I have it complete on LP and enjoy it, along with some of those you highlighted.
Dave, again thank you so much for this exercise. I mostly listen to orchestral music, but as I’m growing older, my tastes are becoming more varied. I was looking for a good Beethoven string quartet cycle to begin with. I decide to go with the Smetana Quartet and I absolutely love their sound, as I too like to hear good bass. I request you to do a similar video on Shostakovich string quartets. I’m currently listening to the Emerson String Quartet on DG and the Taneyev Quartet on Melodiya - both excellent recordings and performances, and from opposite spectrums.
Thanks for the overview Dave. I have a witches brew of the SQ. I have ultra-budget cd releases of Melos doing the early SQ (3 cds) and the late SQ (3 CDs) but missed the middle SQs. I think they were originally a DG set. I got into the Beethoven SQs with an LP of Smetana Q doing the # 13 and grosse Fuge. Next was the digital recording of Smetana doing the same pieces but wasn't as good. I really should get the whole lot in one box. So I'm mulling over your suggestions.
Good to see the Belcea here
I heard a wonderful live opus 131 in Bath from them a year or two ago
I'd add the Cleveland Quartet on Telarc, especially in the early and middle quartets. Recorded with Telarc's signature sonic splendor.
Also the Guarneri's second cycle on Philips, at least the late quartets and Opp.74+95. Seek out the individual CDs if you must.
I like the Cleveland cycle very much as well. Thanks for mentioning.
Of course there can never be a definitive recording. The best performances are still in the future!
I have owned the mono Budapest and the Vegh recordings, plus the partial series by the Busch Quartet.
These days I content myself listening to Beethoven Quartets as come come live on BBC Radio Three. I don't think I have ever heard any of this music less than superbly played.
I really think my favourite Beethoven is his Quartet Cycle!
Best wishes from George
The Alban Berg Quartet studied in Cincinnati with the LaSalle String Quartet, which in turn had studied with the Julliard Quartet after WWII. There is no question that they were deeply influenced by the "American" school.
And the Belcea Quartet studied with the Alban Berg.
@@belpit66 as did the Artemis
It is very difficult to narrow it down to a few cycles, so well done.
My favourites are:
1) Quartetto Italiano;
2) Budapest String Quartet on Sony;
3) Gewandhaus Quartett;
4) Végh Quartet;
5) Hungarian Quartet and
6) Guarnieri Quartet
Oh yes and I have and like the Alban Berg cycle too
been reading your reviews for so long so cool to see you and hear this video in my journey to find quality recordings of the beethoven string quartets. for now i am liking the emersons and the hungarian but after seeing your video im tempted to check out juilliard or takacs though the complete takacs is very hard to find which is frustrating especially after your recommendation. i wanted to mention that i have the alban berg analogue and i find them to be brilliant but at times lacking soul or authentic depth so on the superficial side even when they are trying to sound deep. i really want to check out the juilliard after your recommendation but wanted to ask the difference between alban berg cycle and the juilliard? besides that, really informative video with immense insight and i look forward to seeing more of your videos.
Sixteen cycles for sixteen quartets. Dare I suggest an ideal list for INDIVIDUAL Beethoven quartets Mr Hurwitz 😅.
Well, whatever school the School of Belcea is, it is my favourite. After living with this video and these cycles for just over a year, the Belcea cycle is the one that has slowly risen to the top for me, personally. But I lasted hours enjoying the others too. Italiano, Takacs, Emerson and the Suske(!) cycles are the others that stand out... But not as much as Belcea.
I have the Takás and Quartetto Italiano cycles, and they're fantastic as you say. Takás is very tightly executed and a little dry, and I love it. I really like the Smetana sample you played for us- warm and mellow, and the individual instruments are allowed their own personalities. I'm thinking I'd like to get that. I didn't hear what you said about the Budapest Quartet (do they have a cycle?). I have the Late String Quartets by them, and while no doubt it's played with passion and goes off into different dimensions, quite a departure from the mid quartets, the sonics are horrible and a lot of it sounds like screeching though I'm sure that was not intended. I rarely listen to it because of that. And then there are the audible coughs which are a real put-off. We're almost, not quite yet, in the golden age of recording now.
Thank you David for your research and for your comment. I think that each quartet gives its own accurate reading and that each Ensemble brings new details to the understanding of this great work (my teacher called it the Bible of the quartet) I believe that among all those mentioned there is a very important and in my opinion decisive for the clarity of the parts for the accuracy of the dynamics for the choices of the times and for the noble phrasing. And this is the Vegh quartet. The second cycle of Beethoven's quartets recorded in the early 70s for Valois I think is one of the best and most important readings.
Who else says "Hello Friend," back at Dave at the beginning of his videos? C'mon, you know you do. Nice overview as always.
I say “Hello Cat” in the same way as Mr. Hurwitz to my cats.
I can now stream a lot of music in high res. I have seen recommendations for the Vegh Quartet for decades, and it seems to be marvelous. I have the middle late quartets with the Quartetto Italiano.
Another recording I have also wanted to hear is the original Fine Arts Quartet, and it is extremely listenable. I just want to keep listening to it. So there.
Great closer "A great civilization once existed here!" no. 1 of op. 59 is my favorite as well, and I like what I heard from Smetana. You also have me curious about Quartetto Italiano. Otherwise, I'm an Emerson guy, though I wish they would relax their tempi more. Didn't at all care for the sound of the Amadeus quartet. Often like the interpretations of the Guaneri Quartet, but their sound has an organ like quality to it that I struggle with a bit.
Excellent survey, as usual.
Curious to hear your thought about less known vintage recordings as Barylli, Pascal, Fine Arts , Amadeus and also the Melos from 70s ( both Intercord and DG). Any chance?🙏
None whatsoever. Enough is enough!
Have you done the Shostakovitch and Bartok string quartets? If not please do! Your channel is great! thank you
I have at least parts of 13 of the 16 cycles you list...I tend to accumulate late quartet boxes. I really like the cypress quartet in the middle and late quartets. What is your impression of them?
I am actually a big fan of the Emerson cycle. They have every bit of precision that Juilliard and Tokyo have but... did you guys hear quartet no. 3, op. 18, mvt. 2? You tell me that's not just the perfect tempo. There's something about them.
Back in the pre-internet days when I thought I'd better get a Beethoven 4's set and there was only the Penguin Guide or the guy in the record store to go by (and when I wasn't fully cognizant of the British biases of both), I dutifully went out and bought the Lindsays. Snore. Finally I heard the Emersons, who the Penguins seemed to completely deny the existence of, and the clouds parted. I'm glad you mentioned that they get a bum rap and that they are such a remarkably accomplished quartet. Maybe you should do a chat one day (a top ten countdown!) on the most egregious offences committed by British critics in extolling British conductors/ensembles at the expense of (often American) others. As you have at one time noted, Sir Colin Davis's Sibelius on RCA would be a grand start...
Great video, as always. What about the Quatour Ebene? They're live recordings, but you'd hardly know it. Their approach is extraordinarily musical at all times and the production is excellent. This set sits at the top of my list...for what it's worth.
They left out the revised Op. 130 finale which infuriates me to no end :)
OMG at last …the first movement of the op 59 number 1 as the first test…YES…I do this every time as well …thank you so much Dave for your stellar exploration of the embarrassment of riches…your views on the flawed Lindsay cycle…Cyrus and team are giving it a new lease of life on Eloquence…due in August I think. Also any thoughts on the Kuss cycle ? I really dislike the Miro sound as well as their choice of tempos in the Rasumovsky quartets…and what about the Amadeus Quartet? Especially the one on Audite recorded as part of the RIAS recordings (missing op 74 I think). It may be fun to talk about quartets to avoid…would the Melos make your list? Thanks again…
I think 16 cycles is enough for now, but you really do make my point. My goodness--there's so much out there.
I love the Takacs cycle immensely. It is rich, vibrant, clear as a bell, and dear and near to me. I also like the Budapest Late String Quartetts. Marvelous execution and an otherworldly sound. But it's hard for me to listen to old recordings anymore. I know that's offensive to many. I'm sorry!
The Emerson Quartet has ruined Op. 130 for me. Their Presto is just so perfect and energetic. I haven't found any other group that gets it right like they do. Just the first few bars always make me smile uncontrollably
I hadn't heard that one version. I just listened to it and I must agree. It's fantastic! It has great energy and humor. I'm now hearing the beginning of the following movement (andante con moto, ma non troppo) and it's great as well!
Any thoughts on the Fine Arts Quartet that was on Vox Boxes snd I think transferred to cd
I never saw them on CD.
Please would you let me know which of the available Juilliard Beethoven Quartet sets you are recommending. There appear to be 3 or 4 different sets available: The Complete Beethoven String Quartets (1964-1970 Recordings) Released by Sony in Feb 2020, another set on Sony released in 2009, The Complete 1982 Live Recordings released by Sony in Nov 2020 - there might be others but I suspect that most of them are earlier releases of these three recordings.
Yes, it's 64-70.
Hello David, tank's a lot for sharing your thoughts about the Beethoven's quartet cycles. What about Borodin, Melos, Lindsay, Gewandhaus and Amadeus quartets? I think the list is not quite exhaustive. I think you should do a full comparative study and upload a video. That would be a great pleasure I think.
I think not. The list will never be exhaustive but it's is quite sufficient for most purposes.
David, how do you find the time to listen to all this music?
I'm not an expert on Beethoven quartet cycles, but I'm very fond of Melos Quartett, Quartetto Italiano and Alban Berg Quartett. I think they have the right tone, panache aplenty, good gestures, accuracy, etc. The Grosse Fuge as played by the Melos is the best I've heard: sharp, visceral, intense, just as I like it. On the other hand, the Takacs use some "modern" gestures I don't like. I enjoy a more Viennese and traditional sound in these works.
DH,..re; Prazak Quartet. Classics Today have them excellent reviews and I know acknowledged them in another comment here. I know that they are Czech but would you consider them as in the “Czech” style? Thank you.
Yes, I would.
Dear Dave, what's your opinion about the Amadeus Quartet cycle on DG? Does is deserve to be considered? Thanx, you're guide to this world.
I have a good memory of the New Budapest version on Hyperion. I sold them, and maybe sorry I did. Not available now.
I always wonder why the late quartets get more attention then the early and middle ones. I think they are all good!!
I have just bought today, in a local charity shop, a factory sealed 5LP Deutsche Grammaphon Bicentennial edition by the Amadeus Quartet, for £2. This will be the first time I will have listened to these string quartets and I notice you don't mention the Amadeus recording, so I'm wondering what to expect. It's certainly going to colour how I think of them. I'd be interested to know what you or anyone has to say. I know some classical music, but not much, and this was a purchase prompted by my inquisitiveness, and of course the ridiculously low price.
So just listen to it and don't worry about anything else!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks David! Cheers, Ian
Wow! So many great Beethoven quartet recordings from which to choose. When I was in college, I preferred (like most everyone) the Budapest. I still have their Late Qt cycle on LP. (I had the Juilliard, but in Bartok). On CD I first bought the Tokyo and found them really polished (too polished, maybe). Now I most often listen to the Takacs for all 16. Really love their playing in every respect! Agree, the best place to start listening is the wonderful cello theme at the beginning of Op. 59, No. 1.
I have a complete set by the Emerson. What went wrong? Thin sound. Tempos too fast sometimes. I just wanted to get that out of my syatem. The Guarneri and the Tokyo are wonderful, though.
Talich...and the Italiano. But the method you adopted to go through the legacy of Beethoven's quartets recordings is of high intellectual onesty.
Thank you.
Have you had a chance to hear cuarteto casals? I think they're wonderful: transparent, rhetorical, intense, lively.
What a wonderful talk (as usual.) I’m grateful for your recommendations and understanding of the Haydn quartets as well. I also “try out” my quartets with the opening of 18/2 and the slow movement of 135. From almost flippant salon music to almost too much reverential soul (I couldn’t resist), those show me a quartet’s understanding, with 59/1 right in the middle. Now…should you really call the Budapest Hungarian or middle European when the approach and nationalities are really Russian? I mean, there’s not a Hungarian in the group, right? And I often think the Guarnieri is more of that lineage than of any other. Thoughts? PS: I, too, respect Vegh. What a terrific musician; I like the 50s performances even if there’s an occasional wart.
Please help, regarding the Alban Berg Quartett: You hold up the blue box while exhorting us to go for the analog and not the digital. Does that mean the blue box is the best one to go for? I notice there is also a red box (1999 edition) which gets a 10/10 from Jed Distler on ClassicsToday. Is it essentially the same as the blue, but just in different coloured packaging? I get confused...
As far as I know, yes, both boxes are the same, and they're the analog one, recorded in the late 70s to early 80s. The digital one was recorded in the late 80s, and it was live.
@@rockifythis Thank you so much for this reply. Most helpful!
A word about the Melos Quartet. They did it twice, and the difference is astounding. Their second cycle completely dismayed me, with its fast, hard and especially hard-driven interpretations. Especially as I bought it as a replacement for their first cycle on Intercord which was in total contrast with their DG effort (it needed a full cd more, and that could not be explained away by the inclusion of the piano-sonata-op14/1-turned-string-quartet). It was playing of a totally different nature. The Intercord recordings were a bit limited in sound, and had a number of clumsy edits that bothered me a bit, so I thought I was helped by the remake. Not so!
It wasn't until I stumbled upon the Leipzigers that I was happy again with B's quartets on record. And by the way: their playing is very, very near to the Melos's first efforts!
i really like your final remark about the alien invasion leading to find these quartets as evidence of a civilization. especially in the middle and last quartets, Beethoven seems to be speaking the language of the stars.
Unless I missed it, you've changed your tam-tam without the (now) semi-obligatory whack and word of explanation! That was quite a quick changeover, too! Here's hoping for whack-and-explanation shortly!
Oh yes: the talk was excellent as usual. I'm personally not mad-keen on most string quartets: the sparesness of the sonorities puts me off, I think.
But by chance, I have the Berg and Guarneri and enjoy both about the same. I may now dabble in the Smetana, however, as that sample sounded very fine.
You missed it!
@@pelodelperro I don't think so. I'm looking at all his video thumbnails as we speak. 23 hours ago, he's still using the Paiste. This video, it's changed to a larger, golden number...
No, Howard is correct. It's a different one. Intro coming...I just thought this talk was going to run long, so I didn't do it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide :-) You shouldn't worry so much about talk length. You are never less than entertaining.
@@dizwell Thank you, but I do worry! My mother yells at me if I drone on for two long.
With reference to the Leipzig Quartet, what is meant by a "German tradition" of playing? And by "German School" with regard to your comments on the Süske Quartet?
Listen and see if you can draw your own conclusions.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for your reply. Coincidentally, I was doing just that. Your colleague's review "Level-Headed Beethoven from Leipzig" on Classics Today was helpful. The sound clips comparing the Leipzig Quartet with the Belcea Quartet in "Heiliger Dankgesang" put me in the right direction. You express the intangible so well, I was just hoping you might have articulated something that speaks the "German School" of playing as you have in characterizing Klemperer, or Konwitschny, for example. It's not too late. Thank you for all your informative and entertaining videos and reviews.
OK I’ll join ‘Classics Today’!
Your RUclips programs are that good and I agree with you completely,
or gain new insights. Thank you.
I will wind up in the Debtors’ Prison, but I’ll have my headphones on.
Patrick McCarthy
Thank you!
The little blob is the viola
How do you feel about the Busch Quartet I know they don’t do the whole cycle but their number 12 just stops me every time also any view s about the Lindsay String Quartet cycle?Great show David keep it going!!
I find it strange that the Lindsay Quartet gets knocked for their intonation but the Busch Quartet doesn't. To my ears the Busch is much more problematic.
The Lindsay did a recording of op. 130 with the Gross Fugue as the finale (they also included the recomposed finale). We know what Dave would say about that choice!
Daniel Libin the Lindsay is great but the Busch has such a deep spiritual beauty
@@theraccoons9617The Busch Quartet was my introduction to the Beethoven Quartets. (The opus 95) The intonation problems on the late Quartets don't bother me. I'll gladly sacrifice "perfection' for emotional depth. Enjoyed your comment.
The CDs of the Belcea set are glued to the sleeves. The gizmo that you talked about in the other video will not help. I impatiently teared off the sleeves. But the trace of the glue is left on the performing surface. Please do the video about how to clean the CDs.
It depends on which edition of the Belcea set you get. There have been at least 4, and the recordings are less than 10 years old! There's also a set of live performances from Vienna on blu-ray/dvd.
The opus 29 string quintet is richer than any of the opus 18 and comparable in scope to the opus 59s. It deserves to be recorded as much as the 16 SQs IMO...
That’s a piece that has fallen off my radar but I will be sure to listen to it shortly. Any recommended recordings?
Thanks!
It's in the Leipzig Quartet box of String Quartets--a great way to make comparisons.
@@edwinbelete76 The earlier Tokyo Quartet cycle (on RCA) includes the Op 29 quintet (with Pinkas Zukerman) and the string quartet version of the Op 14 #1 piano sonata.
Guarneri here, because I got it at such a grand price.
Aah... The Beethoven string quartets. They have a certain cult following, comparable to Bruckner, no? I have always loved the quartetto Italiano... For me, their elevated musicianship, control of sound and technique remains so amazing. Vegh, Talich and Takasz are also on my shortlist. Although I really respect Emerson, they do some crazy things that I just don't like: take the finale of op59, nr3... For me it's just too fast, ruins it a bit for me. Lastly, the Melos quartet on DG did some wonderful things in this music. I really love their thoughtful work, perhaps a bit too serious? But I find myself listening more to them then to Alban Berg...
Why is the box set by the Takacs Quartet no longer available from Decca?
Because they're stupid and don't care.
I’ve tried it’s ridiculous that it’s unavailable. I bought the Smetana recently & I’m very happy with it.
I wonder if Supraphon made a mistake. Smetana’s 1976-1985 cycle may be the digital cycle on DENON. ‘Licensed from Nippon Columbia’ means it is DENON. Supraphon’s own analog recordings are perhaps around mid. 60s or early 70s and probably not the complete cycle. But anyway I take Smetana and Talich rather than Julliard and other modern precision types. Noble but not lose intimate feelings for the music. It’s a difficult task to describe the character of the performance. Thanks.
I was wondering about that too, but Supraphon actually did have the rights to analogue versions of the same performances that Denon recorded digitally. I need to check, but my Denons are in the overflow room while the Supraphon box was a recent release.
As far as I remember (I may not remember well, it was really a long time ago -- a monthly called "Technický magazín" wrote about that, at that time), some of the Smetana Quartet recordings were early digital recordings (as well as some by the Suk Trio), still in the experimental phase, really some of the very first digital recordings worldwide -- the Japanese engineers who invented it were involved. The Nippon Columbia people brought their equipment here and recorded them together with Supraphon, the signal from the microphones went both to the Supraphon analogue tape recorder and the Japanese digital system...
@@jankucera8180 Thank you. That is my recollection as well. Maybe we're right!
The booklet for this complete Supraphon cycle says recording dates are between 1978 to 1985.
Supraphon does have a reissue of their early incomplete cycle (quartets 11-16 plus Grosse Fuge), the artwork on this is in color and the members are sitting in a circle performing.
@@jankucera8180 I see. I didn't know that. Thanks.
All wonderful versions though I thought the Lindsay’s cycles especially the analogue might have merited a mention.
No, I don't think so.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I knew it. Why though? They were the first recordings of these works I heard.
Are there no British quartets ?
What kind of question is that? Who cares where they come from?
My comment is are the bethoven quartets as popular in the uk as they are in our country. Dave be well served gezunt.
My head's spinning. How will I afford to buy a third, a fourth, a fifth Beethoven cycle? I have Alban Berg (analogue!) and Tokyo (2nd version). So it looks as if I need a warmer, Hungarian or Czech--or Italian--approach. Now for a question a little outside the music itself--if you wish of feel able to field it: what about streaming over physical cds. Most of us don't have rooms for our cds (maybe one room); problems of space arise. Many of these recordings are available in streaming format (Amazon Music HD for me): Smetana, early Tokyo, Suske--and many more. But do you think a listener shortchanges himself by streaming? If not, I'm set. If so, I need another room.
What matters is the music. Get it in the way that works best for you.
@@DavesClassicalGuide That's good news. The music usually sounds very good--as long as the connection is at least 16-bit, which may be as good as anyone can hear. Thank you.
In Britain we like the Lindsay Quartet. Properly gritty Beethoven.
No, actually, most of you don't.
@@DavesClassicalGuide what do you mean?
@@jonathanturner2960 Just what I said.
Well I don’t know where your evidence comes from for that. The British musical establishment certainly likes the Lindsay Quartet, such as Gramophone and the former Penguin Guide to music including the late great musicologist Robert Layton
@@jonathanturner2960 That's two. How about the rest of "Britain?"
Anybody who weaves the phrase “drivel and bullshit” into his discourse gets my attention.
Why not do a small talk about the worst beethoven quartet cycles.....i would guess the major factor is sound quality....and i nominate the russian group, the Beethoven quartet. The sound is dreadful on many of the performances.....and I have the melodya remastered set.