I enjoy these short "tricks" videos almost as much as the longer more detailed offerings. It's fantastic that you share these tricks of the trade with us hobbyists. Now and then you present something I've already picked up along the way but often it's new to me. So keep on doing this. I love 'em.
Joe, i am so glad I subscribed to your channel. You have been such a wealth of knowledge. I watch a lot of machining videos to help learn new tricks and enjoy watching projects come together. You don't seem to do as many projects, but you the shear amount of intelligence that comes from your channel has greatly improved my ability to get better setups and precise results. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this and the thorough explanations.
super great tip as always Joe, and illustrates the difference between Concentric and Coaxial, at least how it was explained to me. when it really counts its always best to indicate multiple points!
Thanks Joe for creating such great videos, I find them immensely enjoyable, incredibly helpful and and most definitely appreciated. Much respect and have a great Xmas.
Had arguments with a part like that in the past, very well explained handy tip!!! P.S. I have and will tap a part while the indicator is on it with the same technique as you use. Thank you for your time sharing your knowledge with the world. Wishing you and yours a merry Christmas from Ontario Canada.
Joe, Have you tried using copper shims under your jaws. Copper has two qualities that are very good for lathe an work. 1. it is soft and conforms to the parts surface so when applying the hammer the copper compresses and allows the part to move where you want it to. 2. It increases friction between part and jaw for better holding power. 3. non marring 4. Downside, it creeps. So if holding a big part it can loosen over time.
What a helpful illustration. Never thought of that before although I've used indicators most of my life. Now I wish I had one of those adjustable three jaw chucks.
Merry Christmas, already subbed, been so for a while! And yes, you make an excellent point about indicating in two spots, I have been burned by that very principle before. Merry Christmas Joe, and may you have an awesome New Year!
Thanks joe. Mine would go flying across the room if I tried that and kick it when I walked over to pick it up.I have to move it off and bring it back. Your great at teaching.
That is good advice, another good thing to show people is how to make soft jaws (aluminum will work) , just reverse engineer your removable hard Jaws. To make Jaws that need to be bored through like your part requires, cut a face Groove in the Jaws and clamp on a ring while you are boring them. When done correctly, your part will run in perfectly.
Really important video joe. Something I've already picked up from my experience but more people need to know this. A zeroed dial doesn't always mean a zeroed part.
Great information, Joe. Your videos are excellently constructed and are very information dense. They are an excellent anodyne to the huge number of fluff videos on RUclips. As another commenter said: Best use of 8:03! On another note: Keith Fenner at Turnwright Machine Works has an excellent channel and in a couple of videos he shows mapping out the straightness of very long shafts (>10feet, mostly boat prop shafts) and you really see the concept of highs and lows not lining up along the shaft. Joe, I thought your explanation of this was great but if someone wants to see the concept greatly exaggerated I'd suggest they go look at Keith's videos.
I had similar issue to this once But was consistent with every piece chucked up using ground and polished shaft stock Took the chuck off found a small chip between the chuck and the head stock
Good stuff right there. I would like to see your take on indicating a deep bore as well where the ID is not necessarily concentric or parallel with the OD.
I've run into this countless times, The shops I worked in, I was trained very early to look for this, the shop I worked in longest we actually called different types of runout by different names, This where it's like a pivot where it's not straight in the jaw was runout, if the highs are on the same side then your common error is either a lobe on the part, or it's just the part isn't concentric to the centerline of the machine, we called that scenario orbiting, it made it very easy to describe exactly what was happening because we had labels for different kinds of errors, if it's running out, then it's not straight if it's straight and not centered its orbiting the machines centerline. I trained the operators after me in that shop the same way, so when we had an issue it was easily described even though it's not universally labeled that way. I don't know if you've done a video on it yet I used a scenario as an example of this, we had parts we ran where the second operation was drilling op on a specialized machine (something akin to a BTA drill) The problem was the operator didn't care during setup (he was quitting and really didn't care anymore) so we had parts where the Wall variance was well over .070 at the bottom, the Max allowed was .010, So we ended up having to create almost this exact "error" to fix the OD to the ID, where one end is actually true and the other was kicked out far enough we had to shim it in the chuck. The other scenario I've run into was that the hole was straight but not down the middle of the part, so we had to create and orbit situation to cut the OD true to the ID. I mentioned to someone else in the comments that sometimes we create these scenarios to fix other errors, it's worth noting it and talking about that sometimes we have to create less than ideal cutting situations to fix errors (those parts the depth of cut varied enough from side to side, that even though it was technically just a varying depth of cut it was severe enough that it was for all purposes of tool choice and sped and feed choices an interrupted cut in a nickel based super alloy, you and I both know how had those suck)
Good video joe (take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you) Also found it an eye opener because often i dont do this. Good practice,, i agree should be done more frequently rather thsn assume it is concentric. Thank you
I would truly love to see your take on how to indicate a long cylindrical part 18" to 26" which has a precision bore with groves. Getting it to run concentric to bore for reaming and threading. Love your work. Thanks for your content
Establish trustworthy surfaces at each end first and work with those to indicate. If all else fails, get a rod that fits well in the bore and do the indicating outside the bore. get the rod to run straight and you don't have to worry about the outer shape or inner grooves. I personally prefer 16" challenges around the .223 diameter.
@@joepie221 thanks for the tips. I'm doing it through the headstock with a outboard spider. I love learning on your channel, thank you, Merry Christmas!
As always... A great presentation Joe. Thank you very much, and the tip on saving indicators (I was aware of what not to do) is another "tool" in my box. Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year to you Sir! And thanks again for sharing. P.S., where do you find all that weird stock for the demos? (rhetorical joke)
Another little gem Joe, this might help you I think you use a DSLR camera like I do, what you do is turn on the camera let it focus on what your filming and turn of the auto focus and you then don’t have the problem of it hunting, hope that is of some use, just have to remember when you move it to film the next part of your video. Regards Alan.
Great video as usual, but.... I always use 2 indicators for this kind of set up no jumping back and forth.... Super handy for setting up big ugly crap in large machines, saves a lot of time. when they both read 0 your done.
on large parts exactly this, I'll have one indicator in a fixed position near the chuck and then another usually doing "the bad thing" and having an indicator fixed to the turret near the other end and indicate to match, on big stuff on big machines in my experience usually I'm using a cathead or roller rest to bring in the outside end and the chuck to bring in that end. So exactly this. On small parts on a manual machine like that I use just the one, and I mark the high with a red paint marker and the low with blue on both ends so I can see what kind of mess I'm working with before I ever start trying to indicate.
With a thin piece of round metal in the Jaws with a section protruding inside the jaws, as well as the section protruding towards the tail stock, I would have used a dial gauge on the face of the job, to bring it into alignment, then checked it for longitudinal alignment. In the end you did a good job pointing out, what some of your viewers might have missed. Have a Great Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to come.
There was no established face surface to indicate. Dual OD readings are the only option when no face is available. But, when a face is available, always true the face before the diameter.
Recently I have been making some incidental tools from grade 8 bolts. Why - because they're available for immediate purchase at my local building center. Otherwise, I have to order some medium carbon steel, pay for shipping, and wait. I find that the bolts are not all that straight. I face and center drill the bolt, extend and support the outboard end with a live center. Then turn the whole length to find the usable straight stock that's in the middle. Is that the best approach?
Joe. Was it my old eyes or was the aloominum disc in the chuck jaws not running true ? It looked like it was slightly more proud of one of the jaws to me.
In this case you had a nice collar on the rod that would allow you to skew it slightly in the chuck to get the axis of the rod parallel to the axis of the spindle. Is there a fairly simple way to tweak a part in a chuck without this spacer or grinding the jaws?
I like the idea of pushing down on the part to stop shock waves going into the indicator. Also nice looking indicator what brand is that? Awesome video 🤙
Great teaching video. I noticed you were dampening the vibration, but it still made me cringe!! LOL Happy Christmas to you and yours, and may your New Years be Merry! Stay safe out there.
Well that makes me a dumb ass, all these years I have only indicated at the end of a part while thinking all along that it would be true at the Chuck. This proves that you can teach a old dog ( aka: me ) new tricks. Thanks Joe
to avoid having to reposition the indicator when one is banging on a part, couldn't you use like a rubber band/string/whatever to hold up the feeler, like when you are checking that it's not maxed-out?
Hello Joe, thanks for the instructive videos. Great as always! Do you know if anybody ever tried to build a 2x4 independent jaw chuck (8 jaws in total) that would allow to hold the piece at two different points that can be adjusted independently? Or perhaps tapping the workpiece is much faster than adjusting 8 jaws 😅
Hi Joe. Great Tip, Thank You. Can you PLEASE shoot your camera operator or get him to turn OFF the Auto Focus and set it manually. Seasons Greeting to you and the Family from Australia.
Dave, we can ask Joe Pie to use the AvE method of getting his camera to focus - sure works for that polar grease monkey from the Raspberry Capital of Canada
Thanks I am going to try this next time I do some lathe work. I’m going to be honest I’ve never done this before, I’ve just put the work in the chuck and got on with it
@@joepie221 and I think that is were i have been going wrong, I have a project coming up to make some rc wheels for myself and I will do this.. And thanks for the reply
And if the situation was with a drill bit or reamer and you wanted it perfectly true, would you put a pin gauge in and clock then put the drill in the collet or?
Hi Love your videos. Do you make or do you know who makes a device to mount I dial indicator on an adjustable boring head? I want to see the amount I move the head on a dial indicator- not the scale on the boring head.
I used a collar for this demonstration so I could achieve the 'crank' error in the part. It reduced the surface contact and allowed me to preset the .004 error.
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
Joe. Please don’t ever get tired of doing what you are doing. Your videos are well received and appreciated.
I enjoy these short "tricks" videos almost as much as the longer more detailed offerings. It's fantastic that you share these tricks of the trade with us hobbyists. Now and then you present something I've already picked up along the way but often it's new to me. So keep on doing this. I love 'em.
Joe, i am so glad I subscribed to your channel. You have been such a wealth of knowledge. I watch a lot of machining videos to help learn new tricks and enjoy watching projects come together. You don't seem to do as many projects, but you the shear amount of intelligence that comes from your channel has greatly improved my ability to get better setups and precise results. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this and the thorough explanations.
So insightful, really eye opening for us hobbyists....chasing our tails
super great tip as always Joe, and illustrates the difference between Concentric and Coaxial, at least how it was explained to me. when it really counts its always best to indicate multiple points!
Thanks Joe for creating such great videos, I find them immensely enjoyable, incredibly helpful and and most definitely appreciated. Much respect and have a great Xmas.
As a retired tool maker of 45 years I love all your videos ( and the shirt). Keep up the good work!
I was getting frustrated with a sleeve I was boring, because it wasn’t true on both sides , thanks for video
Always excellent videos very helpful thank you Joe
Had arguments with a part like that in the past, very well explained handy tip!!!
P.S. I have and will tap a part while the indicator is on it with the same technique as you use.
Thank you for your time sharing your knowledge with the world.
Wishing you and yours a merry Christmas from Ontario Canada.
"Words to machine by - by Joe Pi" Really cool tip! Thanks Joe
Thanks for useful discipline in setting things accurately and ensuring throughout rod. Cheers
Excellent information!! Genuine presentation that's easy to understand. I realized I've been abusing my dial indicator with "diving boards".
Joe,
Have you tried using copper shims under your jaws. Copper has two qualities that are very good for lathe an work. 1. it is soft and conforms to the parts surface so when applying the hammer the copper compresses and allows the part to move where you want it to.
2. It increases friction between part and jaw for better holding power. 3. non marring 4. Downside, it creeps. So if holding a big part it can loosen over time.
Thank you Joe for sharing this valuable information!
Thanks Sr for your awesome experience and explain to patient and explicitly merry Christmas
What a helpful illustration. Never thought of that before although I've used indicators most of my life. Now I wish I had one of those adjustable three jaw chucks.
Great video and explanation of run out and how to resolve the errors.
Merry Christmas, already subbed, been so for a while! And yes, you make an excellent point about indicating in two spots, I have been burned by that very principle before. Merry Christmas Joe, and may you have an awesome New Year!
Thanks joe, you've confimed my way of thinking and ive got a little more piece of mind in my hypothesis
Good stuff is always Joe. Thanks for sharing
Thanks joe. Mine would go flying across the room if I tried that and kick it when I walked over to pick it up.I have to move it off and bring it back. Your great at teaching.
That is good advice, another good thing to show people is how to make soft jaws (aluminum will work) , just reverse engineer your removable hard Jaws. To make Jaws that need to be bored through like your part requires, cut a face Groove in the Jaws and clamp on a ring while you are boring them. When done correctly, your part will run in perfectly.
Thanks Joe, love the TIP!!
Really important video joe. Something I've already picked up from my experience but more people need to know this. A zeroed dial doesn't always mean a zeroed part.
You bet.
Great information, Joe. Your videos are excellently constructed and are very information dense. They are an excellent anodyne to the huge number of fluff videos on RUclips. As another commenter said: Best use of 8:03!
On another note: Keith Fenner at Turnwright Machine Works has an excellent channel and in a couple of videos he shows mapping out the straightness of very long shafts (>10feet, mostly boat prop shafts) and you really see the concept of highs and lows not lining up along the shaft. Joe, I thought your explanation of this was great but if someone wants to see the concept greatly exaggerated I'd suggest they go look at Keith's videos.
I watch Keith's videos. He gets himself into some interesting projects. Usually with great results. Talented guy.
Always learning something with your videos. 👍🏻👍🏻
I had similar issue to this once
But was consistent with every piece chucked up using ground and polished shaft stock
Took the chuck off found a small chip between the chuck and the head stock
Great tip. Keep the heater turned up today it is even cold on the south side of Houston.
Good stuff right there. I would like to see your take on indicating a deep bore as well where the ID is not necessarily concentric or parallel with the OD.
I've run into this countless times, The shops I worked in, I was trained very early to look for this, the shop I worked in longest we actually called different types of runout by different names, This where it's like a pivot where it's not straight in the jaw was runout, if the highs are on the same side then your common error is either a lobe on the part, or it's just the part isn't concentric to the centerline of the machine, we called that scenario orbiting, it made it very easy to describe exactly what was happening because we had labels for different kinds of errors, if it's running out, then it's not straight if it's straight and not centered its orbiting the machines centerline.
I trained the operators after me in that shop the same way, so when we had an issue it was easily described even though it's not universally labeled that way.
I don't know if you've done a video on it yet I used a scenario as an example of this, we had parts we ran where the second operation was drilling op on a specialized machine (something akin to a BTA drill) The problem was the operator didn't care during setup (he was quitting and really didn't care anymore) so we had parts where the Wall variance was well over .070 at the bottom, the Max allowed was .010, So we ended up having to create almost this exact "error" to fix the OD to the ID, where one end is actually true and the other was kicked out far enough we had to shim it in the chuck.
The other scenario I've run into was that the hole was straight but not down the middle of the part, so we had to create and orbit situation to cut the OD true to the ID. I mentioned to someone else in the comments that sometimes we create these scenarios to fix other errors, it's worth noting it and talking about that sometimes we have to create less than ideal cutting situations to fix errors (those parts the depth of cut varied enough from side to side, that even though it was technically just a varying depth of cut it was severe enough that it was for all purposes of tool choice and sped and feed choices an interrupted cut in a nickel based super alloy, you and I both know how had those suck)
Small light bumps! I don't like doing that either but I always try to set to the middle of the range of the indicator so I don't peg out.
Thanks Joe
J. Thanks for this and all the wonderful video you sharing with us. i really appreciate, every single one.
Merry christmas .
EDC
Good video joe (take care of your tools and your tools will take care of you)
Also found it an eye opener because often i dont do this. Good practice,, i agree should be done more frequently rather thsn assume it is concentric.
Thank you
Aside from great knowledge I like very much you show care for everything. Thank you
I'm big on Karma.
I would truly love to see your take on how to indicate a long cylindrical part 18" to 26" which has a precision bore with groves. Getting it to run concentric to bore for reaming and threading.
Love your work. Thanks for your content
Establish trustworthy surfaces at each end first and work with those to indicate. If all else fails, get a rod that fits well in the bore and do the indicating outside the bore. get the rod to run straight and you don't have to worry about the outer shape or inner grooves. I personally prefer 16" challenges around the .223 diameter.
@@joepie221 thanks for the tips. I'm doing it through the headstock with a outboard spider. I love learning on your channel, thank you, Merry Christmas!
As always... A great presentation Joe. Thank you very much, and the tip on saving indicators (I was aware of what not to do) is another "tool" in my box. Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year to you Sir! And thanks again for sharing. P.S., where do you find all that weird stock for the demos? (rhetorical joke)
I feel personally attacked haha, I spent way too long indicating a part today
In addition to what Joe demonstrated, you can verify alignment if you sweep the part with an indicator then rotate the chuck 90° and sweep again, .
Conditionally correct. The head must be verified as true prior.
Thanks Joe for another one knocked out the park
Solid basic info. Good video. 😎👍🎄
Good tip. Merry Christmas !
Another little gem Joe, this might help you I think you use a DSLR camera like I do, what you do is turn on the camera let it focus on what your filming and turn of the auto focus and you then don’t have the problem of it hunting, hope that is of some use, just have to remember when you move it to film the next part of your video.
Regards Alan.
Nikon does not offer the option of turning off the auto focus. They should, but its not possible on the B500
Shame my switch is on the lens.
Thank you for the next great tips 👍
Thanks again Joe for a great video. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and family.
Great video! Very informative! Thanks for sharing!.
Another great video, thanks Nathan
Another excellent lesson from the master. I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas and stay "Unloosened" into the New Year. 😉Cheers from Oz.
Good video and content
Great video as usual, but....
I always use 2 indicators for this kind of set up no jumping back and forth....
Super handy for setting up big ugly crap in large machines, saves a lot of time.
when they both read 0 your done.
on large parts exactly this, I'll have one indicator in a fixed position near the chuck and then another usually doing "the bad thing" and having an indicator fixed to the turret near the other end and indicate to match, on big stuff on big machines in my experience usually I'm using a cathead or roller rest to bring in the outside end and the chuck to bring in that end. So exactly this. On small parts on a manual machine like that I use just the one, and I mark the high with a red paint marker and the low with blue on both ends so I can see what kind of mess I'm working with before I ever start trying to indicate.
Great explanation Joe - I've been in that trap and wish I had thought of this technique.
Thanks, Joe!
Great information Joe, been there done that...all too often!
thanks Joe you never disappoint marry Christmas Joe god bless .
Great video Joe can't wait until your next one Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.
Its in que. Merry Christmas back at ya. Thank you.
Good tip. Worth remembering on a long part.
Good tip N DEMO. Thanks Joe.
Hi Randy, Thanks for watching.
Great content Joe
really nice , as every time " thank you for sharing this knwoledge" and btw nice shirt ;) ,
thanks again Joe .....merry christmas
Really helpful video Joe, thanks as always. Have a great Xmas.
With a thin piece of round metal in the Jaws with a section protruding inside the jaws, as well as the section protruding towards the tail stock, I would have used a dial gauge on the face of the job, to bring it into alignment, then checked it for longitudinal alignment. In the end you did a good job pointing out, what some of your viewers might have missed. Have a Great Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to come.
There was no established face surface to indicate. Dual OD readings are the only option when no face is available. But, when a face is available, always true the face before the diameter.
@@joepie221 Fair call, you could then treat it the same way if you were setting up to machine a Bolt or re chambering a .308 Remington
Interesting video as always. Would you consider addressing the different types of indicator holders available and when and how to use them? Thanks
Recently I have been making some incidental tools from grade 8 bolts. Why - because they're available for immediate purchase at my local building center. Otherwise, I have to order some medium carbon steel, pay for shipping, and wait. I find that the bolts are not all that straight. I face and center drill the bolt, extend and support the outboard end with a live center. Then turn the whole length to find the usable straight stock that's in the middle. Is that the best approach?
great lesson, thanks..
7min of why a good collet chuck is worth it.
JOE PIE MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR
Great video! Thank you!
I chased this on a gun barrel for a long time before I checked the other end of the barrel and found it had slipped off its center.
D Rickard : Got that coffee mug
Joe.
Was it my old eyes or was the aloominum disc in the chuck jaws not running true ?
It looked like it was slightly more proud of one of the jaws to me.
That collar was used to intentionally skew the rod, so it may have been.
Good tip and analogy with a crank shaft. Is your hammer copper and lead?
One end is brass, and the other end is HDPE.
In this case you had a nice collar on the rod that would allow you to skew it slightly in the chuck to get the axis of the rod parallel to the axis of the spindle. Is there a fairly simple way to tweak a part in a chuck without this spacer or grinding the jaws?
very nice video!
I like the idea of pushing down on the part to stop shock waves going into the indicator. Also nice looking indicator what brand is that?
Awesome video 🤙
Nice shirt!!!
Thanks Joe, what type of indicator holder was that?
Great teaching video. I noticed you were dampening the vibration, but it still made me cringe!! LOL Happy Christmas to you and yours, and may your New Years be Merry! Stay safe out there.
Merrie Christmas Joe!
Well that makes me a dumb ass, all these years I have only indicated at the end of a part while thinking all along that it would be true at the Chuck. This proves that you can teach a old dog ( aka: me ) new tricks. Thanks Joe
I just desubsribed so I could subscribe again. Merry christmas, Joe!
to avoid having to reposition the indicator when one is banging on a part, couldn't you use like a rubber band/string/whatever to hold up the feeler, like when you are checking that it's not maxed-out?
My supervisor doesn't even know what set-up does
Maybe you should be the supervisor. :)
Thanks....AGAIN Joe..😎
Hello Joe, thanks for the instructive videos. Great as always!
Do you know if anybody ever tried to build a 2x4 independent jaw chuck (8 jaws in total) that would allow to hold the piece at two different points that can be adjusted independently? Or perhaps tapping the workpiece is much faster than adjusting 8 jaws 😅
Nice job.
Hi Joe. Great Tip, Thank You. Can you PLEASE shoot your camera operator or get him to turn OFF the Auto Focus and set it manually. Seasons Greeting to you and the Family from Australia.
Dave, we can ask Joe Pie to use the AvE method of getting his camera to focus - sure works for that polar grease monkey from the Raspberry Capital of Canada
That full time setting is just terrible for close up work. I have to change the default. Sorry Guys. I didn't know that happen until edit time.
Thanks I am going to try this next time I do some lathe work.
I’m going to be honest I’ve never done this before, I’ve just put the work in the chuck and got on with it
For first side or raw stock operations, just going for it is fine. For second side op's, you should master some of these tricks.
@@joepie221 and I think that is were i have been going wrong, I have a project coming up to make some rc wheels for myself and I will do this..
And thanks for the reply
Merry Christmas.
Thank you. Same to you.
And if the situation was with a drill bit or reamer and you wanted it perfectly true, would you put a pin gauge in and clock then put the drill in the collet or?
Joe i didn't know your a Sammy barely pop fan to 🍺😁🎄🎅 Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to you all.🙋
Longtime Stockholder too. I toured the Boston location about 6 months ago.
I usually start by thinking it is probably me....👍
Ophir Memories & Illusions
👍
This tip is worth way more than 8:06 of my time, Joe.
Cheers, Gary
Thanks Gary.
Hi Love your videos. Do you make or do you know who makes a device to mount I dial indicator on an adjustable boring head? I want to see the amount I move the head on a dial indicator- not the scale on the boring head.
You can use in indicol holder if the head is a small one.
@@joepie221 emmmmm it is too universal. It will take too long to set up.
@@samstewart4807 A true indicol takes less than 5 seconds to attach. Is that too long?
Two thumbs up!
In my other life that means I'm out of air and headed for the surface. thanks for watching.
thanks...
I feel like you've worked in maintenance 😅
I see you get the extra High price quality steel material at the same place
AS I DO🤯😜
Very clever, but how exactly is the bar held in the chuck?
It's basically a shop made collet. The ID is close/tight to the stock size with a slit cut in it so the chuck jaws close it down and clamp the stock.
I used a collar for this demonstration so I could achieve the 'crank' error in the part. It reduced the surface contact and allowed me to preset the .004 error.
@@joepie221 I got that part on the exaggerated error. Didn't know it was a called a collar and I've made several. Thanks
If you have a machined face like this part. Dial the face true(by tapping) first. Then dial in diameter.