Thanks for the comments everyone. They are all worth a read if anyone hasn’t seen them yet. So many close calls, it just goes to show the importance of awareness. A few notes that have come up so far… The spurling pipe was sealed with foam. Even without sealing it though, there wouldn’t be decent airflow. Yes, we only looked at 1 very specific case here. Many more situations could also result in a toxic atmosphere. I intentionally didn’t go through how to enter enclosed spaces. You should only be going in after receiving formal training anyway. This video just raises awareness that these spaces are lethal.
A question worth answering is why would you perish so quickly when most people can hold their breath for at least one or two minutes? Also, why didn’t the men feel uncomfortable before perishing, like you do when you hold your breath? More physiological than engineering questions, I suppose!
@@putrid.p The body doesn't detect lack of oxygen but a build up of carbon dioxide, if you enter a space with little or no oxygen you can still remove the CO2 from your blood but not replenish the oxygen and you will passout without realizing anything is wrong
I still alive when I was nineteen and the Apprentice Deckhand with on the Radium Guilbert I stood fire watch with miracle worker inside a four hundred gallon diesel barge. As soon as the manhole covers came off the First Mate found out that a Mates Ticket is a limited Ticket it only good for ten days.
I think its because we have always taken the availability of oxygen for granted. Its not like we're astronauts so as long as we have air, we just automatically assume that there will be oxygen.
wouldn't it be vented because the anchor chain has to come out of the chain locker so there would be a vent for things to enter and exit. including air, and plants and animals. or are they airtight on modern ships?
@@ameraldas3641 There will be an opening for the chain though it's probably not going to be much larger than the chain itself and runs directly through the windlass and such that are used to raise the anchor hardly an optimal ventilation conduit.
Even without the oxidation, the person going in will deplete the oxygen. This is a real problem even in places not normally considered enclosed spaces. If there are heavy fumes produced by a process they can cause low oxygen if there has been a leak or the ventilation system has been switched off.
The ERV was even on-duty for an oil rig, which has MANY confined spaces that ERVs are expected to have rescue plans for. Everybody that works with confined spaces receives training on how to recognise when an atmosphere isn't safe, and how to respond in the case of a casualty. That three people died due to improper access to a confined space on that ERV demonstrates some SERIOUS training deficiencies and the company is probably liable for those personnel's deaths.
Had a job on a barge a year ago, manager wanted the job done quick as he only calculated 1 day of work. Went inside, smelled diesel, stupidly enough trusted my coworker it was safe, got a headache, went out and demanded ventilation before going back in. My manager was pissed but I didn't care, few hours later we had a welding ventilator. Don't ever put work before ur own health, if not sure just don't do it!
@@joevideowatcher As EmmissaryGW2 said, you can breathe out CO2 and without breathing in O2 your body doesn't produce anymore CO2 so it "thinks" you're fine. This happens with the classic CO intoxication (often in suicide, or when material doesn't get properly burnt and there is no airflow). Your body thinks it's fine but your brain doesn't get O2 to work and you pass out and then die. CO intoxication is dangerous in two ways. First, the aforementioned inhibition of lack of oxygen signal that makes you pass out without even noticing it, and secondly, the CO molecules have a strong bonding force to your blood cells that are supposed to transport oxygen in your body and deliver where it's needed. Due to this strong bonding force, those blood cells aren't free anymore to take O2 molecules. So even if you're rescued and taken out of the danger zone, you still can die of lack of oxygen for a while because your body is unable to absorb enough oxygen from the air.
Sometimes people dont really think of these kinds of stuff. Empty but spacious space. No wierd smell. Shouldnt be toxic, right? Its just things that fly over your head. Like entering a locked storage room. You think its locked because its because they dont want people to be there because of the chain suddenly moving and dropping. Its not like they were warned (no oxygen inside). Its the immediate threat that we worry about and never the other stuff so its understandable as to why 2 people had gone there without breathing equipment.
hi .. i just wanted to say thanks for this video ... my father was a navy diver who lost his life while entering a ship that was enclosed space 21 years ago i was 8 at that time .. he was working as commercial diver on a side job . all this year all i knew was the ship was on port and they had to go inside to close the holes and fill up some balloons to bring the ship up and relocated it .. my fathers friend was the first one who went in .. and he lost contuse , my father was second after him and there was also the 3rd friend after my father .. ( they didnt use scuba gear cause there was air inside and the hole wasnt big enough for scuba tank . ) my father and his friend who entered first time didnt make it to hospital but last person that entered survived .. for all this year i wasnt sure what cause the problem .. they told us there was toxic gas .. but now i understand exactly what happened .. thank for education me .. i feel much better now knowing this ..
This is the classic reason why one doesn't rush to save someone collapsed in a room without thinking a little bit first. Instead of one casualty, you could become the next one, and multiply the rescue complications.
Indeed well really this applies in a room or anywhere else for that matter first priority is always to ensure safety. Course the very fact there is a collapsed person should give one immediate pause, people don't collapse for no reason so ruling out any environmental hazards that could have already created one casualty and may remain capable of creating additional casualties should be the first thing on your mind. Obvious candidates of course include enclosed spaces, chemicals (Asphixiants/Poisons), faulty live electrical equipment etc.
I guess in this case there´s a fallacy which is difficult to spot early on: you just see somebody collapsing, and don´t really know why. First thing you think is that it´s just the guy, not the environment itself, and proceed with his rescue... The danger of the environment itself is not yet clear and still difficult to assess (or at least just as difficult as before the first guy got in), until multiple bodies build up the full picture...
I worked security/emergency response in a chemical plant. The site had an hour going over enclosed spaces. Basically it broke down to ‘don’t’ and ‘really, don’t’.
I work in refineries, Confined spaces are LITERALLY the most deadly places and require extensive planning. Truth be told, if you are struck unconscious, you will likely die there. The atmospheres in them are constantly changing due to the chemical reaction of hydrocarbon breakdown, or welding processes or cutting processes that use up the o2. Add to that, sloped floors, distillation trays or baffling and you’ve got a seriously dangerous space to been in even if it had a breathable atmosphere. In this case they were entering a space with a shifting anchor chain, that reason alone was probably why the “man way” cover was bolted. It is not a space designed for humans to be in. Calling it a “hatch” implies it’s a door intended to be used.
there is also a small point to add to this, metal breathes because of autoxidation so uses up a lot of oxygen, combine that with saltwater bringing even more dissolved ions into the mix and you have a space with almost 0 Oxygen and full of gasses like CO, CO2 and even Cl2, NOx (common if plastic is present) and obviously Nitrogen, and all of that on its own is (depending on the concentration) deangerous to humans, the lack of oxygen just means you'll also go uncontious after 2-3 breaths
Fighter pilots have to pass an Hypoxia* certification, thus having been trained to recognise their own symptoms for hypoxia (there’s a varied list of common symptoms, which are exhibited and in which combination is highly individual). This kind of self awareness training maybe should be applied at sea as well for enclosed spaces. Won’t help you if some other gas knocks you out, but recognising your own symptoms for lack of oxygen could save your life.
@@jdan5807 Honestly not that many, the number one cause of death in industry in general is falls from height. There are SO many safety aspects of refinery work and maintenance that in order for someone to actually die either it has to be a highly uncommon event like an explosion or a noxious gas leak (the workers themselves wear on the person a detector) or multiple safety protocols have to be missed or ignored in order to create the conditions that lead to a death. We have work permits of many kinds; Safe work, Hot work or spark producing work , critical lifting permits and most germane to this topic, confined space permits. To successfully obtain a confined space permit you need to have checked so many aspects from hazardous atmospheres, which include oxygen levels FIRST, lower explosive limits, does it contain the possibility of a changing atmosphere, which is continuously monitored throughout the entry by an attendant who never leaves the entry point and records any and all entries and exits on a log that is part of the permit. So you can see by the things I’ve just mentioned that none of that took place. They were either ignoring safety or blatantly working around them. One last thing, I know all of this because I am a refinery maintenance contractor’s employee, I’m NOT a safety professional, this is just an example of things you must know simply to get into the plants that need the contractors, literally the tip of the iceberg in terms of safe work practices.
Carbon monoxide, it is very very toxic, less than 0.1% in the air can cause death if i remember correctly, I dont really know if thats the case there but it can be very dangerous espetialy in engine rooms or such
Milan Djuric carbon monoxide is an off glass from the combustion process. So you are correct about the engine room. But this case specifically more than likely H2S as there is no machinery in that specific compartment that uses combustion.
@@danielpalmer3706 Makes sense, but hidrogen sulfide stinks alot it would be easier to notice, i didnt know that there is a concentracion of it that would kill you without you being able to detect the strong "rotting egs" smell
Milan Djuric after 150ppm you get what called olfactory disorder and unknowingly lose all sense of smell. But if you’re descending a ladder bay the airflow of you moving downwards will draw fresh air in with you till you at the point of no return and on the ground dead.
i worked in a huge government building with various levels of security access, i always wondered what 'enclosed space access' meant, and why it was a big deal. great video
Those would probably be the service areas only used when something needs replaced or fixed usually in buildings though the areas wont suffer from huge buildups of gases unless there is a leak of some sort. Also since it was a government building its possible some of the doors may of been "fakes" where things were kept that were on a need to know basis as a variation of the hide in plain sight tactic as the spooks always love to find new and strange ways to hide things.
This might the the most painful video I've seen in a while... We had a quite similar story here in Norway some time ago: three elderly brothers was emptying a silo on their farm. One of the brothers entered the silo and immediately collapsed. His brother saw what happened and rushed into the silo to help his brother. He too collapsed within seconds. The third brother wondered where his brothers was. He found them inside the silo, collapsed, and rushed in to help them. All three brothers died, asphyxiated by the gasses developing in the silo...
Same story with a basement and potato supply. Anyone who cooks their own potatoes and obviously have them laying around, knows that they can produce some pretty nasty stuff when they rot. The whole family died in minutes.
@noc noc Yes, but most of them are ventilated, one way or another and you need to regularly check vents to make sure they're not clogged. No need for electric fans and more complicated stuff, just 2 vents allowing for a natural air flow will do just fine. There is a ton of problems with enclosed spaces, including oxygen depletion by oxygen combining with elements around to make oxides (rust).
The same thing happened to my neighbors when I was a kid. The farmer went into the silo (I think it was a silo for grass silage), passed out, his wife went after him and both died. The same thing happened at another farm on Gotland, Sweden a couple of years ago. In silos with silage ore grain, CO2 is the most common killer. It has twice the density of air and accumulates at the bottom.
There is also a similar story like this from the Netherlands, from 2013 I think. On a farm they where cleaning a manure silo, they did vent it, but not enough apparantly: as the first guy that went inside quickly lost conscious. The person that went in to save him also lost conscious. Then 2 more went inside, but they to lost conscious... In a deperate rescue attemempt the farmer used his tractor as a battering ram to punch a hole in the side of the silo. But sadly in the end 3 men died, including the farmers' son. As a weird turn of events the guy that went in first survived, but he did spent several weeks in a hospital in critical condition.
They wouldn’t know _all about these kinds of dangers_ because their primary job is assisting in water-based rescue, not the inside of a ship. Maintenance crews are not part of the “rescue crew.” If we want to talk about “who should have known about these dangers,” it’s the maintenance crew that unbolted a closed entry, and then had multiple people enter. Not the rescue crew, who had to put their own lives in jeopardy because the fault of a couple of dumbasses.
@@wrije so you say they're not supposed to know about this since they're maintenance crew, not rescue crew, but then call them dumbasses. So which is it? Are they dumbasses for not knowing, or, being maintenance crew, are they not supposed to know?
@@wrije These vessels have small crews of 12-15 people. There is no maintenance crew and rescue crew, a rescue team would most likely be drawn from the same deck crew that carry out the maintenance. This happened 13 years ago with many more incidents occurring on other types of vessels since then, and it’s something that’s taken a lot more seriously nowadays but it does still happen. I think the most recent was on a fishing boat in Fraserburgh harbour. That was because of leaking freezer gas and one man died. We are not allowed to enter any tanks unless it’s an emergency. We used to provide a standby team for shore based workers entering the tanks but now they have to provide their own. Even though it’s something we’ll most likely never have to do we still run enclosed space rescue drills every trip.
@@Moleskineman You seem to have misread. The maintenance crew are dumbasses. They clearly aren’t doing their job right, as they open a bolted shut enclosure and entered. Now, they also had _more_ of the maintenance crew enter, after watching one of them drop. I never said the maintenance crew needed to know how to rescue, just to use their head and not break protocol by entering bolted areas, nor continuing to go forward after seeing an issue. With a little _common sense,_ a toddler could see that’s dangerous. It doesn’t take textbook training to know that. If you’re gonna reply to me, make sure it’s something that isn’t absolutely moronic.
Damn I've worked on cruise ships for three years and thought the "danger: enclosed space" was warning people of possible claustrophobia (to be clear I'm in entertainment so that's well out of my realm of needed operational knowledge)
those warnings are there for multiple reasons other than just this danger (rust removing o2). there are a lot of processes or things used in processes that can be really bad with no ventilation. say for instance a refrigeration line runs through the area. if it leaks, it would build up in that area and anyone doing the work needs to know "hey, this is one of those places we told you to worry about" before entering. The same goes for work done in that space, using a solvent would be a hazard, along with welding. doing them together would be...spicy...
I saw a carbon dioxide warning label on a door in a burger joint. The had a tiny little "harry potter style" cupboard under an escalator where they store CO2 containers for the fizzy drinks, instead of list most place having the soda stand free standing with good ventilation.
@@57thorns worked in pubs, had CO2 alarm system set up in the cellar. policy was we had one person standing by the door watching the alarm and camera while the other person changed a barrel or whatever needed doing. while I always followed procedure, we had an incident with a CO2 can leaking and a member of staff opening the door while the alarm was on to find out "why the coke machine was producing flat coke." two warnings, flat drinks AND the CO2 alarm, and they ignored both. they were fine in the end after i dragged them out, but there was a LOT of bollocking, both for the member of staff from me for ignoring the warnings, and for me charging in without any SCBA (which we didn't have, we were a pub after all) from the fire department.
Adopt this rule of thumb: Always assume that any sign that reads "danger", "warning", "caution" etc is warning of an immediate threat to human life or health in the area. Even a wet floor sign is doing exactly that, as slipping on the wet floor can cause all manner of head trauma and even result in death. If you do not fully know and understand the danger, do not proceed. Simple as that.
@@MGSLurmey Unknown unknowns are what gets you though. You can be as diligent as possible, but what you didn't know you didn't know will get you anyway.
A friend of my father (they're both seamen) almost died in the same circumstances. It was on board of a cargo ship, transporting scrap metal in the Baltic Sea. There were some suspicious rattling and banging noises in the cargo bay (probably poorly secured cargo), and the captain sent in a group of 3 crewmen to inspect the cargo. They were going in a line when the first (leading) guy collapsed. Two remaining guys (including a friend of my father) tried to wake him up and passed out in the process. Long story short - the dude whos story I'm telling was last in that line formation they were walking in along the corridor, and he turned back to call for help, so he was the furthest from the hypothetical center of "bad" air when he lost consciousness. And he is the only one who survived - after a lengthy rehabilitation in the hospital he developed a phobia and could not work far away from shore anymore. Reason of disaster was the same: cargo (scrap metal) absorbed the oxygen from the air. Captain was sued for giving a malicious order and found guilty.
@@alexnutcasio936 If I recall correctly (I was like a 10 y.o. kid back there, no way to find out for certain now since we moved to another country) it was a criminal charge. I don't know the details, but that ship didn't have the required equipment to work in enclosed cargo spaces with potentially dangerous cargo (like oxygen masks and whatnot) but the captain still went ahead and ordered these guys go investigate. The captain either was incompetent and didn't know about the potential danger, or simply forgot about the special risks of transporting metal scrap - this ship was not specialized for any cargo and they moved all kinds of stuff. Anyway, he clearly should not have given them the order he did, even if there were strange noises in the cargo bay. I'm not sure about the correct course of action (not a seaman myself) but he should probably have informed the coastal guards\other authorities about the situation and await instructions. Why that unspecialized ship without special equipment was allowed to transport this sort of cargo is another good question. It happened in the late 90s in a post-soviet country (Lithuania) so I can imagine that personnel safety was not streamlined to the point it is in 2019.
@@BiosElement a malicious order of "hey, go completely disregard the absolute most basic safety protocol that's taught to every schoolchild who takes a first aid course and all go in there at once. don't test the air or send the first guy in on a tether or anything like that, just mosey on in". That's what we like to call criminal negligence.
That boosts my confidence one going to France from England by ferry without my parents for the first time for a group scout trip 2 days after I write this comment
One of the most important things that you learn in a first aid / CPR / etc. class is that before you go to help someone, you look at the environment and think about whether it's dangerous for you to approach. Doesn't always work for situations like this where the threat isn't obvious, but always worth considering.
Although gases and a lack of oxygen are invisible you could probably still recognize the potential dangers as long as you are trained on confined spaces and their hazards. If you know that confined spaces often have toxic gases or oxygen deficiency inside them then upon seeing someone unconscious inside the space you would be able to recognize that they were probably overcome by toxic gases or a lack of oxygen inside the space. As someone who has watched many confined space safety videos on RUclips the moment the first worker went unconscious I immediately realized that he was probably overcome either by toxic gases or a lack of oxygen and that was well before it was revealed what actually happened to that person later in the video.
In our factory, there are designated enclosed spaces that can only be entered with a work permit licensed by the state. This license is so stringent that nobody is qualified at the plant to do the work. We have experts come in and we arrange a state inspector who comes out and issue the work permit that only last 6 hours. If the work last longer than that the have to stop and go through the process of reissuing the permit again. We take safety very seriously. In Europe some contractors died in enclosed spaces. There were using the plant’s pressurized air for their air supply. That’s against our policy, they’re supposed to have their own independent system for everything. Well the plant lost power for a few min and that was all it took for the workers to pass out and later die from suffocation.
@@xPRODIGYxGAMER The comment you're responding to never mentions the factory being in Europe though? In fact it specifically says a plant in Europe had worse regulations.
@@XTriggerMasterX You don’t bring up a random plant in some different country of the world if you’re currently talking about your plant. Chances are he’s in Europe, where there was a devastating accident, which in turn had them to adjust their rules/regulations to prevent another. If he does indeed _not_ live in Europe, then he should take a class on relevance of writing, and use an example from a plant in his own country, where the regulations can give you a good idea of the similarities of a plant and how to avoid these situations. EDIT: Take a class as in, a short 5-minute Google course that will massively benefit them later on. I don’t expect anyone to go take an actual college course on this.
@@wrije Mate the comment was written by someone who lives outside Europe. The US is my guess, as he talks about 'state inspector's' and 'permits licensed by the state'. In Europe, I'm not aware of any country broken down into states, and this is also a term used regularly by Yanks.
@Jock McScottish you fundamentally misunderstand what a state is in the United States. Germany is a state, France is a state, Massachusetts is a state, Florida is a state. In some countries like Germany or Canada they have provinces but the states in the United States are not analogous to provinces in other countries. Provinces are generally organizational structures and not much more than that, states are literally their own Nations. If it makes it easier for you think of the United States as being the equivalent of the EU and the individual states as being the equivalent of the member states of the European Union, although ironically individual states in the USA have far more autonomy then EU member states.
Yeah, the most boring safety courses are frequently the most important. The dangers that don't trigger our fear instincts and take meticulous measures to avoid can get us in trouble really quick. The long classes on things you would likely not think to be scared of before the class often have a mountain of bodies behind them.
This is something huge in the aerospace industry as well. Fuel tank entry involves removal of similar access panels and the use of atmosphere detecting tools. Very interesting!
This reminds me of a somewhat similar set of circumstances, captured on police dashcam a long time ago: An officer was responding to a crashed tanker leaking noxious gasses. He saw a man on the ground near the gasses and went in to help. Moments later he was unconscious and died like the other man. These situations can quickly turn worse if proper caution isn't exercised
That incident was particularly sad because the police officer could see the fumes/fog caused by the leaking ammonia gas, but he thought it was smoke from a fire in the crashed vehicle. If he had realized it was a leak from the tank, he probably would have proceeded more cautiously instead of just running to the fallen person. By going more slowly he might have identified the danger while it was still possible to escape from the gas. And even worse, the person who reported the crash had also reported the ammonia leak. So for example the firefighters also on their way to the crash were told to prepare for toxic gas. However the police officer was not warned, the message to him only mentioned a vehicle collision. If he had been warned of a reported ammonia leak, he probably would have survived.
and even then use a air testing tool to know how the quality inside is. and as the guard outside Don't ever go inside. that's just a extra body in the worst case
There was a rule that personal protection equipment (PPE) such as ear protection, eye protection, steel-toed boots etc. is always the very last option. Whereever possible you should remove the cause of hazard first and then augment with equipment to be safe.
Had similar experience few years ago. Went on a trip. I accidentally blew a hose in a deep well with a ladder by closing wrong valve before switching off water pump. I almost thought I should reattach it when owner said - "only if you want to die there". There is no air to breathe down there, 50 meter well.
ignoring the warning via bolts, there should have been at least a simple sign on the cover that just says "you will suffocate" and that would be enough, but ideally the crew should also just be taught/know that in the first place without a sign
@@Necrobin Any indication why it's dangerous to enter and therfore closed. They probably knew that they shouldn't go in there but did not know what to look out for.
In my experience, ships are extremely dangerous and will consistently find new and improbable ways to kill and maim. Sailing isn't dangerous per se, but neither ships nor the sea gladly suffer the unwary or unwise. The rule in the navy was that an enclosed space had to be ventilated well enough to have replaced the entire atmospheric volume of the space no less than twice before entry AND you had to wear breathing apparatus in the space AND you were required to operate in teams of three AND permission from the chief engineer was required before you could pop bolts on an enclosed space. On my first ship, we had a big problem with constituent elements degrading and then reacting to form hydrogen sulfide, which for those who haven't been on ships, will kill you hella fast in an enclosed space. We had a guy die once when he tried to replace a section of mixed AFFF (basically 'roided-up laundry soap used as a firefighting agent)/seawater pipe for the non-firemain installed firefighting system. Turns out the mixture had been sitting there for a while and the inside of the pipe had acted like a catalyst for the reaction, so it was full of H2S. He was dead in two minutes. We didn't even find him until he'd been dead for three or four minutes.
There's a reason why most sailors in the past and even now are superstitious. You just don't know where bad things can happen and when it did, its always waiting to become catastrophic.
H2S is absolutely insidious stuff. Imagine opening something and getting a blast of rotten egg smell but it quickly goes away... everything's ok, right? No, the H2S anesthetized your sense of smell and is continuing to kill you. Enough concentration and you'll drop dead on the spot.
Nice video. I think a follow up is in order (especially after reading some of the comments on here) to explain why people don't recognise the dangers of confined spaces, and why confined space accidents are often double fatalities. Many people do not realise that our gasping reflex is triggered not by lack of oxygen but by high carbon dioxide levels, so many low oxygen environments (those without elevated carbon dioxide levels) feel perfectly safe until muscles suddenly stop working (because the blood supply is no longer providing them with oxygen) and the person collapses. It is quite common for a workmate to see this happen and think that the person has fallen, so they rush to help them and meet the same fate. This is why atmospheric gas monitors measure atmospheric oxygen content as well as levels of common toxic and flammable compounds, and many confined space entry procedures require connection to manned emergency rescue equipment (e.g. harness, retrieval rope, tripod).
if you are the safety guard outside of the entree of the enclosed space Never enter it under any condition. stand on your post and alarm others to go in. you stay at your post and don't leave until all people inside are out again or if a higher safety person orders you to do so and he/she is taking over. even if it is your best friend or your own child. don't go in you are useless when you are died your self.
The safety guard was batting .500, he got the first part right by using the radio to notify the bridge, then he made his fatal error of entering the space. I have to wonder if opening and entering the space was a spur of the moment decision while they were in the bosun locker for something else. If it were planned then take the damn O2 meter.
@@glennrishton5679 even if it was in the spur of the moment. The amount of bolts they had to remove already should give them time to think. Even with a power drill it will take you some time to undo all of them.
@@ukaszw6623 it happens way to much that it still is something that needs to be drilled in. At a plant i have worked people have died do to stupidity. Even worse that a college later on wanted to make the same mistake at a other silo when i was the safety guard. I was still making my report to know if the silo was safe but the idiot went in to it before i gave permission. I immediately called the fire department and had the guy being pulled out. and he was fired the same day. if even the example of death it self is not enough I don't know what will.
I had OSHA training for working in a confined space. After that course, no shortcuts. 4 gas meter, blower, contact nearest fire dept with confined space rescue capabilities, harness and tripod w/cable at the entrance. The outside man was told not to come in, winch me out. And the blower was helpful for freshening up the air. Don't do it with out training and a plan!!!
This event actually happened in front of me on the U.S.S. Ranger in forward port side chain hoist, I was supposed to be the one going down to unravel a knot that had developed on the chain but a bad slip sprang my ankle and couldn’t climb down the ladder. So another guy went down I was recuperating in my bunk when I was told that three men had passed out in the chain locker, I asked if they had vented the room before descending? The answer was easy to know they hadn’t we ever nearly lost three sailors just because I and the others that usually run/work in the anchor room weren’t there that day, it was bad on my part luck but as you said the simple idea that it is so locked up so tight that water or air can’t get in or out should’ve told them to check with me or someone who knew what to do!
My uncle had a somewhat similar experience. He is working as a facility manager on dry land in a well ventilated building. For the most part that is. One day he had to acompany a worker from another company who did a routine inspection of the fire supression equipment. They came across a not well ventilated room with a gaspipe and through some dumb luck the inspection worker managed to vent the gas pipe into the room. The Inspector collapsed and my uncle who was standing in the entry way nearly did too as they were in the only part of the building that was not ventialted. He managed to get stay concious near the floor, get out and call for help though, and nobody died. But he described the experience as the scariest thing ever. Knowing this and watching this video, I hope I never come across a situation like this myself.
@@hihu7200And that's the reason for miners' historical use of canaries; they're much more sensitive to a problematic atmosphere than humans, and so if the poor little birdie drops dead, you GTFO.
A rescue line? How would that help? An unconscious person can't do anything with it so you'd have to go down to attach it and... oh wait, you're also dead now. -edit: I'll have to correct myself here, he probably meant a rescue line that is permanently attached to a harness before the dude went in. That actually would've helped them a lot, my bad.
@@n3lis94 not all confined spaces are the same. Some could be benefit from a line if its close to the access point. A line could also tell responders which direction to look if there are T intersections.
@@mixflipYou were talking about the situation in this video specifically, in which a line is completely useless until you are wearing oxygen gear. At which point the crew most likely did actually use a line to retrieve the three bodies.
@@n3lis94 you wear a harness with a line attached to you and a tripod where they can pull your unconscious body up. And you have to wear an air monitor which would have gone off alert as you started down
This is why I love RUclips so much. This was said so eloquently and also visually perfect, I have ADHD and it was easy to understand. Thanks for the original content. I will carry on the baton and do my part. Cheers boys and girls
Being a first responder and having taken a class that talked about confined space awareness this is what the instructor talked about. He said for every victim that is involved 2 rescuers become a victim also. In this case the first guy goes down. Partner who is looking to rescue the first guy becomes the second and the last guy who goes down to rescue the 2 others become the 3rd victim.
Learned this in the navy, one of the bolts also had a small hole drilled into it on covers over the bilges so that when partially unscrewed you could feel air escaping which indicated there was flooding in that particular space before the cover was unsealed.
I worked as a safety technician for a major shipyard. This was the #1 routine of the job, inspecting spaces on various commercial and navy ships so workers could work safely. O2 levels are the #1 concern, but chain lockers are ESPECIALLY dangerous because they also accumulate hydrogen sulfide gas (aka "sewer gas") because of the decaying plant-life that is often found growing on chains while they are in the sea. O2 depletion will knock you out but you can be saved if responders come quickly enough, but H2S will just kill you instantly.
I was thinking about something like this to be the deadliest thing in that space. Even basic anchors can have quite of an biofilm accumulation. Can't even think how much there is that in big vessels.
@@bleachesbrother6697 H2S binds to the cytochrome enzyme in mitochondria, preventing cell respiration. In other words, even if there is oxygen available, your cells can't use it if they're full of H2S, because the parts they would normally use to utilize oxygen are bound to H2S instead. So, even removing a person from the toxic air doesn't help them, as there is no way to remove H2S from the cells.
Being in the chemical industry, I've gotten lots of confined space training. It's the most common reason for fatalities, not explosions or poisonous gasses. My "ah-ha" moment was physiological understanding why people don't notice the lack of oxygen. Our bodies trigger the need to breath due to build-up of CO2 in our blood, NOT the reduction of O2. In low O2 atmospheres, you still expel CO2. So you never realize your O2 is plummeting until you lose unconsciousness. This is why it is so scary ... you have no warning that you are in danger.
It's not just lack of Oxygen, but also presence of inert gasses used for welding, CO or other exhaust gasses from equipment, and other contaminants that can make confined spaces very dangerous, both during construction and afterwards. The Navy and shipyards treat this problem very seriously, and have extensive confined space certification programs to test air and post whether they are safe to enter or not. Confined spaces that are not safe to enter cannot be entered by any part of your body.
Before retiring, I worked on US Navy ships, and we were warned never to enter confined spaces that hadn't been checked by a certified person. We always believed that warning, but now I have some idea what they were talking about. It's too bad I didn't know at the time that I was working.
I love this channel. It explains things that most of us landlubbers wouldn't have even thought about. And the quality has steadily been improving over time. Not that it was ever a bad channel, it's always been good. It's just better now. Thanks so much for taking the time and obviously quite a lot of effort to make these. The world needs more people like you who enjoy sharing their knowledge with others and do it well.
@@CasualNavigation wow man, you have some SERIOUS time invested in each video! Makes us appreciate the content just that much more. Thanks very much for the reply.
"I'm not gonna go into exactly how you should enter those spaces" - Good call. But just in case there's someone out there hoping to learn the procedure from the internerds, here it is, including an easy memorization tool: D-O-N-T As in: DON'T. Because if you have to ask the internerds, you absolutely positively have no business going in there. And don't even think "but what if someone's in there and I'm the only person around to rescue them". You keep out _especially_ if there's already someone in there unconscious. If you screw this up, you're _literally_ *dead* *before* *you* *even* *know* *it* . And become additional *bait* *in* *a* *death* *trap* .
Confined space is very rarely kill one. Because always somebody's going to try to go in and help, and unless you've got a professional stopping you right there you're going to be dead too.
This happening on a rescue ship reminds me of when (and this is a true story, I swear) my school had a fire drill, and a teacher forgot some bread in the staff lounge toaster, and it actually caught fire. Ah, the irony.
I heard of accidents like this on land e.g. people cleaning big tanks. Good to know some possible reasons. Not only you make great videos, today you may have saved some lifes in the future! Thanks!
When I was working on Drill ship's offshore we regularly got training and warning about closed spaces. I am surprised that people aboard a vessel, especially one involved with rescue work, would have crews unaware of such things and be so lacking in knowledge about enclosed spaces.
Similar thing can also happen in caves. I've heard of a "dog killer" (not an official name) cave where if you came with your dog it would suffocate but you were fine. The reason is some gasses that are heavier than air are near the floor of the cave so your dog can't breathe but you are fine (as long as you don't try to lie down).
Same thing happened to a worker in my apartment when i was 6. He was in the room where all toilets of the apartment have air ventilation. Basically where the toilet fans are connected, where smelly air leaves the toilet and enters that room. He was strapped up and was going up to do some cleaning, and he just died. I did not know the reason until i watched this. Thanks for educating us
Had to inspect a two voids (enclosed space on an aircraft carrier) I left my OBD on while unbolting the second hatch and it saved my life I hadnt even finished removing the hatch , but I realized something was wrong because it was rattling ,the explosive gas monitor started screaming and the safety observer got word people 2 decks above us were getting sick/dizzy all within 30 seconds. I was already tightenting the nuts back on the access. If the passageway hadnt been well ventilated it would have been lethal for those people. If we hadnt been wearing our OBD's while loosening the bolts we would have died as well. It took a couple of days to figure out what went wrong. What had happened was a contractor painted the space and bolted the access shut before it dried. The space had filled with fumes , the fumes had over a year to decay and react with ALL the oxygen in the space so there was a lot of light hydrocarbons in the top of the space and other heavier gasses in the bottom and zero oxygen. The access cover was in the top of the void. When I loosened the bolts the gasses rushed out and air tried to fall into it( causing the cover to rattle) and so much gas came out at once that it overwhelmed the negative ventilation we set up. Fortunately the ships normal ventilation system was able to clear the air in the passageway before anyone was overcome ,or anything ignited it, and we rigged up a way to seal the passageway from us instead of just using negative ventilation before we VERY SLOWLY reloosened the nuts. P.S. Chain lockers are notorious for low oxygen content because the chain scrapes off iron filings into the locker everytime it is raised or lowered so eventually you get enough filings (with very high surface area) to consume all the oxygen.
The most dangerous thing about such situations is that you won't even notice that you're suffocating. The human body is not designed(*) to sense a lack of oxygen. It is only designed to sense an excess of carbon dioxide. (*metaphorically speaking)
There are numerous physiological responses to hypoxia and hypercapnia . There is no actual 'conscious' perception of blood gas levels per se - you may be able to recognise certain clinical signs associated with hypoxia or hypercapnia . Hypocapnia (in e.g hyperventilation) can also cause signs - the low CO2 causes a rise in pH which in turn can lead to a decrease in ionised calcium - hypocalcaemia - signs include Trousseau's and Chvostek's sign , acute dysarthria (inability to articulate speech due to laryngeal muscle spasms) . (I'm an MD)
@@DrTWG The point is, your body doesn't recognize hypoxia in any way that would motivate you to leave the danger zone. Not unless you've had special training to consciously recognize _your_ specific symptoms of hypoxia.
There are stories of this happening to people in ditches out in the open, it doesnt just have to be enclosed spaces. There are ditches that actually might lack oxygen or crawl spaces under buildings and such with below oxygen levels.
But how exactly would that happen? What would change the composition of air sufficiently to cause that, unless it was, like, septic seepage or something like that?
Something similar occurred right next door to me. 3 workers died when cleaning a 12m deep water well. One collapsed while in the bottom of the well, and the 2 guys who went into help the first guy, and also suffocated. One labourer left a wife and three young children - very, very sad.
When I used to fix industrial garbage compactors, some of the big ones had the potential for low oxygen levels. We wore a vest attached to what looked like a giant fishing rod in case we passed out
When working on Shuttle Orbiter we had the same thing happen in an enclosed space. Two men went into a space open at top, used to hold rocket fuel. Fumes had pooled at bottom and they both died.
Totally preventable tragedy. Massive failure of vessel senior leadership, (Master, Chief Engineer & Chief Bosu’n), to train/drill the crew in emergency response discipline. No new technical ground here, the lessons have already been learned across in many similar mishaps across the Fleet.
@@Asigmatizam When three people die in preventable ways, someone needs to be held accountable. Workers take their lead from management and managers job descriptions include enforcing safety procedures. There should have been signage and regular training sessions specifically about this kind of hazard. One death is an accident, two or more is negligence.
@@Asigmatizam Well, youre not allowed to work in enclosed spaces without a permit. And the permit has do be signed by an officer. This seems like soemthing they rushed as they wanted to sleep better.
@@Asigmatizam it's not common knowledge, you're supposed to have training before entering any enclosed.space. the man above policy was good but the lack of training here was BAD.
The scenario that you just described happened on one of the vessels of my seafaring days. I was on leave at the time, but I knew the deceased Captain and Mate. During an inspection of a Double bottom under an inerted LPG cargo hold, one person collapsed and another went in to rescue him and also collapsed. A crack in the steelwork had allowed inert gas to enter the double bottom, but failure to test and ventilate the atmosphere meant that this tragedy was then inevitable. A very heartbreaking affair. Unfortunately, in my later career, there were still those who thought safety rules did not apply to them
Yes, a good safety concept relies on multiple layers. Personal Protection Equipment always is the last option to augment. Try your hardest to remove the cause of the hazard first.
I used to work at a waterpark and we had a massive enclosed space where water would pool before getting pumped to the slides and I was always told to never go down there and I figured it was because of the dark and the water but thinking about it now it would have been nearly impossible to breath down there
This is why you don’t rush in when you see someone collapse in a room, without apparent reason. Especially when the room has been closed for quite some time. The reason might not be apparent but the reason is absolutely there. The first rule you’re taught during any rescue class is “safety first, first your own safety, then the safety of the victims”
I always remember my Emergency Medical training instructor saying that if two people are unconscious and you don't have a full protective suit, go back the way you came because you cannot even try to help. Also the chances that two people become unconcious with no immediately clear cause is so low that it's always worth to save yourself.
Very interesting video - brings back some information that had long before taught at school, e.g. that the rusting of metals is in fact a burning, that (although fireless) therefore uses up Oxygen ! I would probably have been one of those dead crew members, because I wouldn't have been able to make this cognitive connection and remember the physics classes of my school days ! So thanks even more for posting this !
Yep, back when i got my FIRST job i didnt know the dangers of enclosed spaces, and my boss at the time was a man who didnt know that safety was a word, let alone its meaning. At the time i was installing pipe work between buried concrete tanks on various mine sites all over australia. So that meant i was down inside these big tanks, accessed via a VERY SMALL manhole up top and a spindly little ladder and working with drills, PVC pipe primer and glue, getting HIGH AF and im amazed i wasnt killed. I did eventually get taught about these dangers, some years later, but initially, i was an empty headed kid from a small village that came to the big city for work and found it in the form of a careless old man and his truck. He would make me work in the rain with electrical tools, as soon as it was evening (any time after 5pm) he would drink alcohol and then drive and only when HE got tired would we stop for the night and sleep in the work truck ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD because he would NOT pay for a motel or room at the pub for ONE NIGHT!
Those bolts remind me of a summer working at an electric substation. Most of the stuff inside the gates (all gates are locked by padlocks) are safe if you are on ground level. The wires are high above, the transformers have their contacts on the top several meters up etc. But there are enclosures within the yard that are locked with bolts. Those are the capacitors, which hold line voltage at (physical) ground level.
I was a bricklayer and masonry worker on the 2012 Olympic park site. we were building the many massive deep underground tunnels and drain shafts etc under the site grounds, I had to travel out of London just to do my confined spaces certificate. I had to use a petrol saw down there once and it took only a brief time and I had to retire from the fumes, pulled up by my safety harness line. My mates took turns till the task was done. We filled out a fire certificate for many of these dangerous jobs and always your partner is trained to pull you out safely by a cab,e. one time I really appreciated health and safety on site.
today on site deep manholes are checked first and with a electronic atmospheric / gass indicator device and not a canary thank goodness. Fire safety hazard certificates etc issued especially for power tools (can cause sparks igniting gasses /explosions) before any work can commence
I got out of the Navy too many decades ago to admit to, and the dangers of ship voids "restricted spaces" was constantly hammered into us. So isn't this training standard for all mariners? Except for the occasional Cruise, I've been a land lubber since I got out; however, my employer uses a variety of environmental chambers that are treated as enclosed spaces. We undergo training every year. So in this day and age, it surprises me that these accidents still happen. We human's are a stubborn species. Thank you for your very informative and interesting videos.
If you've ever worked in a factory, you get this type of scenario told to you in training. The plant I'm at has tons of enclosed spaces with the only entrance bolted shut. Just sticking your head in without breathing equipment can make you lightheaded.
@@ryanwilliams2011 All compartments on a ship need to be accessible by some means, in case something inside them breaks. The bolted shut hatch should have had an enclosed space warning on it, and likely the chain lockers on large vessels now have such placards.
Yes and no, I work on ships. You're supposed to have confined spaces training. All spaces with mechanical shit are supposed to be accessible. On the ships I work on enclosed spaces are very clearly marked. The failure here was the second man going in on his own, he should have waited for help and breathing equipment otherwise what is the point of having a man above?
Thats a clear sign that regular person shouldn't be there because they don't usually carry the things pros do. The message is clear. Understand and act according to the situation. Stay out where you don't have to go in. Don't act like you know everything.
@@cr4zyj4ck Well... back in the olden days, the room for the anchor cable was well ventilated, and the cable laid on gratings, allowing water to drain into the bilge, and the cable to dry, rather than rot
Recently there was a similar incident back in my town, a dog food factory worker was cleaning a huge drum where bones and blood were kept, he went down the ladder and died in a moment
I love your videos sir. They are awesome. Straight to the point, interesting and so informative. I'm working on boats now and was not aware how dangerous it was. Thank you
As an engineer in the Navy that was one of the most important safety procedures they taught us. Never go into an enclosed space, usually an oil tank, alone or without a safety harness. And the guy tending the line on the harness couldn't just jump in to help you if you collapsed. He had to call for help first, even if it looked like the guy inside was going to die from asphyxiation. That way you didn't wind up with 2 dead snipes
This can also be a problem on shore. My biology teacher told a story about a farmer that went into his vine cellar and died because not only was there a lack of oxygen but the atmosphere had a lot of CO2.
Tldr: DO NOT KLIMB ON FARM SILOS FOR THE SAME REASON!!! Now long story. Near me is a farm run by a family friend of ours and his fam. When I was little I thought the farm belonged to him until my mum told me that it is rented. She said I even saw the owner on one feast but I was too young to remember. She told me that this sad old lady had lost her husband and only son to a similar incident. They were working in the barn filling up silos. These were only accessible from the top by a crane. This crane was operated from a wired console on a pathway over the silos to provide vision inside it. One day One of the two either father or son I don't remember fell inside. The other one jumped after to help him. Even though they both survived the 5+m fall into the partially filled silo they both suffocated silently without anyone knowing since the fermentation of grass produces gasses heavier than air that pushes it above head level and breathing distance. They were only found hours later with no hope of rescue and eventually the lady decided to put the farm out for rent. Imagine that death or finding the corpses after hours of search...
This might be common knowledge to people whose work is related to this stuff but to me its something im thankful for of learning, if there will ever be a time i'm face with the same scenario. Thanks man, wish you the best.
i work in confined space. what you should do before entering the hole or space is to set up air ventilation to get rid of any chemical smell they can harm you.. after that you should call a authorise person to set a gas test to check if the air is safe to breath.. but sadly. in some places they skip ventilation.. fyi.. gas test should be done every 2 hours
you can go in with out airing but then only with full independent air. preferred with 2 airlines pumping clean air via a airline and a 3th backup on your own back. i have worked as the person standing outside of the confined space and guarding the safety of people like you going inside.
This reminds me of the story of a whole family passing out in their root cellar due to potatoes aging. They went down one by one to see why the previous person was taking so long to come back.
@@neemaborji9993 I think I have heard of that one. Did a single daughter not survive because she called for emergency services rather than go down herself?
That's why in construction we are taught to NEVER enter a confined space if a worker is found unconscious. We are to wait until someone with proper gear can go in there.
@@A6Legit There's a video of russian pharmacists for someone's birthday throwing a ton of dry ice in a hot tub and they were all jumping in and the ones who did died
This is the same way where my friend died, he went in a enclosed space in a boat , followed by a second member , after going in there was no response from them , then the third person went in ,he managed to get both out of the confined space , but first 2 person died at spot and third person was in ICU for a long time ..
Wow thank you! I am watching your content since I found it today. they where all really interesting and I am glad as a "normal land person" who doesnt know anything about these topics, to have people like you who manage to give me an understandable look inside! fascinating! And this video gave me an especially "wow" effect, too see how rust and other chemicals interactions can actually be so fatal in closed spaces over time, where you would normally never think about -or more so for "the rust itself weekenigs the steel, but NOT the gas mixture changing. Thank you and greetings from Germany
Thanks for the comments everyone. They are all worth a read if anyone hasn’t seen them yet. So many close calls, it just goes to show the importance of awareness.
A few notes that have come up so far…
The spurling pipe was sealed with foam. Even without sealing it though, there wouldn’t be decent airflow.
Yes, we only looked at 1 very specific case here. Many more situations could also result in a toxic atmosphere.
I intentionally didn’t go through how to enter enclosed spaces. You should only be going in after receiving formal training anyway. This video just raises awareness that these spaces are lethal.
Wow that was a very good explanation 👍👌
I can't believe it. The chain can get in and out but no air can?
A question worth answering is why would you perish so quickly when most people can hold their breath for at least one or two minutes? Also, why didn’t the men feel uncomfortable before perishing, like you do when you hold your breath? More physiological than engineering questions, I suppose!
@@putrid.p The body doesn't detect lack of oxygen but a build up of carbon dioxide, if you enter a space with little or no oxygen you can still remove the CO2 from your blood but not replenish the oxygen and you will passout without realizing anything is wrong
I still alive when I was nineteen and the Apprentice Deckhand with on the Radium Guilbert I stood fire watch with miracle worker inside a four hundred gallon diesel barge. As soon as the manhole covers came off the First Mate found out that a Mates Ticket is a limited Ticket it only good for ten days.
I never thought about oxidation depleting the atmosphere. It's one of those obvious things that I never connected together. Thank you.
Yeah. I know Rust is Iron-Oxide. This video put two and two together.
I think its because we have always taken the availability of oxygen for granted. Its not like we're astronauts so as long as we have air, we just automatically assume that there will be oxygen.
wouldn't it be vented because the anchor chain has to come out of the chain locker so there would be a vent for things to enter and exit. including air, and plants and animals. or are they airtight on modern ships?
@@ameraldas3641 There will be an opening for the chain though it's probably not going to be much larger than the chain itself and runs directly through the windlass and such that are used to raise the anchor hardly an optimal ventilation conduit.
Even without the oxidation, the person going in will deplete the oxygen. This is a real problem even in places not normally considered enclosed spaces. If there are heavy fumes produced by a process they can cause low oxygen if there has been a leak or the ventilation system has been switched off.
The saddest part is the irony. This happened on an Emergency Response and Rescue Vehicle. That's like a fire happening in the fire hall.
Fire stations are burning down every now and then...
Fate does love irony
Where else would the fire live? In a water hall? lmao
The ERV was even on-duty for an oil rig, which has MANY confined spaces that ERVs are expected to have rescue plans for. Everybody that works with confined spaces receives training on how to recognise when an atmosphere isn't safe, and how to respond in the case of a casualty.
That three people died due to improper access to a confined space on that ERV demonstrates some SERIOUS training deficiencies and the company is probably liable for those personnel's deaths.
@Mikey The Fish.. irony
I see what you did there
I wanted to know ONE thing about boats, ONE THING, now RUclips algorithm thinks I should commit my life to ships
Welcome aboard!
It was about why they painted red at the bottom wasn't it? ....
@@SketchbookGuitar yes it was about why they painted red at the bottom
SketchbookGuitar same here...Lol
Maidlife same here...
Had a job on a barge a year ago, manager wanted the job done quick as he only calculated 1 day of work. Went inside, smelled diesel, stupidly enough trusted my coworker it was safe, got a headache, went out and demanded ventilation before going back in. My manager was pissed but I didn't care, few hours later we had a welding ventilator. Don't ever put work before ur own health, if not sure just don't do it!
Hello, what country your manager origin from?
@Doctor Zoidenberg boris yeltsin
@@Getoverhere666 I don't see why its relevant but it was in The Netherlands.
@@Jasonasdoipjahrv I see! Thank you! So this is the same and international. I had many of managers of this kind in Russia.
@@Getoverhere666 yup, in construction/installation work it seems profit still comes first. Big joke all those safety briefings.
It also illustrates how your breathing reflex is not triggered by lack of oxygen (but by oversaturation of CO2 in your blood)
Wouldn't that be the result if you're not getting enough oxygen? I'm confused.
@@joevideowatcher you can still expel co2 if there's no oxygen. And without oxygen you won't produce more co2.
@@emissarygw2264 Thank you.
@@joevideowatcher As EmmissaryGW2 said, you can breathe out CO2 and without breathing in O2 your body doesn't produce anymore CO2 so it "thinks" you're fine. This happens with the classic CO intoxication (often in suicide, or when material doesn't get properly burnt and there is no airflow). Your body thinks it's fine but your brain doesn't get O2 to work and you pass out and then die. CO intoxication is dangerous in two ways. First, the aforementioned inhibition of lack of oxygen signal that makes you pass out without even noticing it, and secondly, the CO molecules have a strong bonding force to your blood cells that are supposed to transport oxygen in your body and deliver where it's needed. Due to this strong bonding force, those blood cells aren't free anymore to take O2 molecules. So even if you're rescued and taken out of the danger zone, you still can die of lack of oxygen for a while because your body is unable to absorb enough oxygen from the air.
Unless you have copd or are a chronic heavy smoker, then the oxygen drive overrides your co2 drive, because their body is used to high co2.
If the _only_ entrance is bolted shut, then you should probably just... not.
Thank you. I totally missed that in the video.
Sometimes people dont really think of these kinds of stuff. Empty but spacious space. No wierd smell. Shouldnt be toxic, right?
Its just things that fly over your head. Like entering a locked storage room. You think its locked because its because they dont want people to be there because of the chain suddenly moving and dropping. Its not like they were warned (no oxygen inside).
Its the immediate threat that we worry about and never the other stuff so its understandable as to why 2 people had gone there without breathing equipment.
The only other entrance was probably the chain entrance. Probably pretty narrow compared to the volume inside.
Yeah, removing bolts and climbing down a ladder shaft just to secure an anchor chain for the night because it's annoying seems like a really bad idea.
That's what I am thinking.
hi .. i just wanted to say thanks for this video ... my father was a navy diver who lost his life while entering a ship that was enclosed space 21 years ago i was 8 at that time .. he was working as commercial diver on a side job . all this year all i knew was the ship was on port and they had to go inside to close the holes and fill up some balloons to bring the ship up and relocated it .. my fathers friend was the first one who went in .. and he lost contuse , my father was second after him and there was also the 3rd friend after my father .. ( they didnt use scuba gear cause there was air inside and the hole wasnt big enough for scuba tank . ) my father and his friend who entered first time didnt make it to hospital but last person that entered survived .. for all this year i wasnt sure what cause the problem .. they told us there was toxic gas .. but now i understand exactly what happened .. thank for education me .. i feel much better now knowing this ..
sorry for your loss, glad this helped you find a bit of closure.
I'm real sorry for your loss. I too am glad you came across this.
Im sorry for your loss he is in a better place now probably diving in heaven with his other friend having a good time and watching you
sorry for your loss
This is the classic reason why one doesn't rush to save someone collapsed in a room without thinking a little bit first.
Instead of one casualty, you could become the next one, and multiply the rescue complications.
Gerhard Symons yup, thats what we learned in lifeguard training
Indeed well really this applies in a room or anywhere else for that matter first priority is always to ensure safety. Course the very fact there is a collapsed person should give one immediate pause, people don't collapse for no reason so ruling out any environmental hazards that could have already created one casualty and may remain capable of creating additional casualties should be the first thing on your mind. Obvious candidates of course include enclosed spaces, chemicals (Asphixiants/Poisons), faulty live electrical equipment etc.
Gerhard Symons scene safety you aren’t helping the situation if you rush in and become another casualty
TBH, this pretty much applies everywhere. There's a reason the victim got hurt and that reason may still be present.
I guess in this case there´s a fallacy which is difficult to spot early on: you just see somebody collapsing, and don´t really know why. First thing you think is that it´s just the guy, not the environment itself, and proceed with his rescue... The danger of the environment itself is not yet clear and still difficult to assess (or at least just as difficult as before the first guy got in), until multiple bodies build up the full picture...
I worked security/emergency response in a chemical plant. The site had an hour going over enclosed spaces. Basically it broke down to ‘don’t’ and ‘really, don’t’.
I work in refineries,
Confined spaces are LITERALLY the most deadly places and require extensive planning.
Truth be told, if you are struck unconscious, you will likely die there.
The atmospheres in them are constantly changing due to the chemical reaction of hydrocarbon breakdown, or welding processes or cutting processes that use up the o2.
Add to that, sloped floors, distillation trays or baffling and you’ve got a seriously dangerous space to been in even if it had a breathable atmosphere.
In this case they were entering a space with a shifting anchor chain, that reason alone was probably why the “man way” cover was bolted. It is not a space designed for humans to be in.
Calling it a “hatch” implies it’s a door intended to be used.
there is also a small point to add to this, metal breathes because of autoxidation so uses up a lot of oxygen, combine that with saltwater bringing even more dissolved ions into the mix and you have a space with almost 0 Oxygen and full of gasses like CO, CO2 and even Cl2, NOx (common if plastic is present) and obviously Nitrogen, and all of that on its own is (depending on the concentration) deangerous to humans, the lack of oxygen just means you'll also go uncontious after 2-3 breaths
Fighter pilots have to pass an Hypoxia* certification, thus having been trained to recognise their own symptoms for hypoxia (there’s a varied list of common symptoms, which are exhibited and in which combination is highly individual). This kind of self awareness training maybe should be applied at sea as well for enclosed spaces. Won’t help you if some other gas knocks you out, but recognising your own symptoms for lack of oxygen could save your life.
Yeah, I was thinking that the guy was going to be crushed at first but then realized that there were 2 more to go.
Do many people die at refineries?
@@jdan5807
Honestly not that many, the number one cause of death in industry in general is falls from height.
There are SO many safety aspects of refinery work and maintenance that in order for someone to actually die either it has to be a highly uncommon event like an explosion or a noxious gas leak (the workers themselves wear on the person a detector) or multiple safety protocols have to be missed or ignored in order to create the conditions that lead to a death.
We have work permits of many kinds; Safe work, Hot work or spark producing work , critical lifting permits and most germane to this topic, confined space permits.
To successfully obtain a confined space permit you need to have checked so many aspects from hazardous atmospheres, which include oxygen levels FIRST, lower explosive limits, does it contain the possibility of a changing atmosphere, which is continuously monitored throughout the entry by an attendant who never leaves the entry point and records any and all entries and exits on a log that is part of the permit.
So you can see by the things I’ve just mentioned that none of that took place.
They were either ignoring safety or blatantly working around them.
One last thing, I know all of this because I am a refinery maintenance contractor’s employee, I’m NOT a safety professional, this is just an example of things you must know simply to get into the plants that need the contractors, literally the tip of the iceberg in terms of safe work practices.
So they died of hypoxia virtually at sea level? Damn, that's a hard one.
AverageArts more than likely H2S caused by the rust
Carbon monoxide, it is very very toxic, less than 0.1% in the air can cause death if i remember correctly, I dont really know if thats the case there but it can be very dangerous espetialy in engine rooms or such
Milan Djuric carbon monoxide is an off glass from the combustion process. So you are correct about the engine room. But this case specifically more than likely H2S as there is no machinery in that specific compartment that uses combustion.
@@danielpalmer3706 Makes sense, but hidrogen sulfide stinks alot it would be easier to notice, i didnt know that there is a concentracion of it that would kill you without you being able to detect the strong "rotting egs" smell
Milan Djuric after 150ppm you get what called olfactory disorder and unknowingly lose all sense of smell. But if you’re descending a ladder bay the airflow of you moving downwards will draw fresh air in with you till you at the point of no return and on the ground dead.
i worked in a huge government building with various levels of security access, i always wondered what 'enclosed space access' meant, and why it was a big deal. great video
Those would probably be the service areas only used when something needs replaced or fixed usually in buildings though the areas wont suffer from huge buildups of gases unless there is a leak of some sort. Also since it was a government building its possible some of the doors may of been "fakes" where things were kept that were on a need to know basis as a variation of the hide in plain sight tactic as the spooks always love to find new and strange ways to hide things.
NiagaraWarrior what building did you work in? And what was the security access for?
I am guessing "enclosed spaces" in a security context means something entirely different.
That's where they keep the reptillians when not needed for impersonating politicians...
This might the the most painful video I've seen in a while...
We had a quite similar story here in Norway some time ago: three elderly brothers was emptying a silo on their farm. One of the brothers entered the silo and immediately collapsed. His brother saw what happened and rushed into the silo to help his brother. He too collapsed within seconds. The third brother wondered where his brothers was. He found them inside the silo, collapsed, and rushed in to help them.
All three brothers died, asphyxiated by the gasses developing in the silo...
Same story with a basement and potato supply. Anyone who cooks their own potatoes and obviously have them laying around, knows that they can produce some pretty nasty stuff when they rot. The whole family died in minutes.
@noc noc Yes, but most of them are ventilated, one way or another and you need to regularly check vents to make sure they're not clogged. No need for electric fans and more complicated stuff, just 2 vents allowing for a natural air flow will do just fine.
There is a ton of problems with enclosed spaces, including oxygen depletion by oxygen combining with elements around to make oxides (rust).
The same thing happened to my neighbors when I was a kid. The farmer went into the silo (I think it was a silo for grass silage), passed out, his wife went after him and both died. The same thing happened at another farm on Gotland, Sweden a couple of years ago. In silos with silage ore grain, CO2 is the most common killer. It has twice the density of air and accumulates at the bottom.
In 1988 I worked on a dairy farm in Alta. They were careful when pumping the shit out of the barn. Good memories and great Norwegian food.
There is also a similar story like this from the Netherlands, from 2013 I think. On a farm they where cleaning a manure silo, they did vent it, but not enough apparantly: as the first guy that went inside quickly lost conscious. The person that went in to save him also lost conscious. Then 2 more went inside, but they to lost conscious...
In a deperate rescue attemempt the farmer used his tractor as a battering ram to punch a hole in the side of the silo.
But sadly in the end 3 men died, including the farmers' son. As a weird turn of events the guy that went in first survived, but he did spent several weeks in a hospital in critical condition.
What bothers me the most is this was a rescue ship. They should know all about these kind of dangers and how to preform rescue/retrieval for them.
They wouldn’t know _all about these kinds of dangers_ because their primary job is assisting in water-based rescue, not the inside of a ship. Maintenance crews are not part of the “rescue crew.”
If we want to talk about “who should have known about these dangers,” it’s the maintenance crew that unbolted a closed entry, and then had multiple people enter. Not the rescue crew, who had to put their own lives in jeopardy because the fault of a couple of dumbasses.
Murphy's law.
@@wrije so you say they're not supposed to know about this since they're maintenance crew, not rescue crew, but then call them dumbasses. So which is it? Are they dumbasses for not knowing, or, being maintenance crew, are they not supposed to know?
@@wrije These vessels have small crews of 12-15 people. There is no maintenance crew and rescue crew, a rescue team would most likely be drawn from the same deck crew that carry out the maintenance.
This happened 13 years ago with many more incidents occurring on other types of vessels since then, and it’s something that’s taken a lot more seriously nowadays but it does still happen. I think the most recent was on a fishing boat in Fraserburgh harbour. That was because of leaking freezer gas and one man died.
We are not allowed to enter any tanks unless it’s an emergency. We used to provide a standby team for shore based workers entering the tanks but now they have to provide their own.
Even though it’s something we’ll most likely never have to do we still run enclosed space rescue drills every trip.
@@Moleskineman You seem to have misread. The maintenance crew are dumbasses. They clearly aren’t doing their job right, as they open a bolted shut enclosure and entered. Now, they also had _more_ of the maintenance crew enter, after watching one of them drop.
I never said the maintenance crew needed to know how to rescue, just to use their head and not break protocol by entering bolted areas, nor continuing to go forward after seeing an issue. With a little _common sense,_ a toddler could see that’s dangerous. It doesn’t take textbook training to know that.
If you’re gonna reply to me, make sure it’s something that isn’t absolutely moronic.
Damn I've worked on cruise ships for three years and thought the "danger: enclosed space" was warning people of possible claustrophobia (to be clear I'm in entertainment so that's well out of my realm of needed operational knowledge)
those warnings are there for multiple reasons other than just this danger (rust removing o2). there are a lot of processes or things used in processes that can be really bad with no ventilation. say for instance a refrigeration line runs through the area. if it leaks, it would build up in that area and anyone doing the work needs to know "hey, this is one of those places we told you to worry about" before entering. The same goes for work done in that space, using a solvent would be a hazard, along with welding. doing them together would be...spicy...
I saw a carbon dioxide warning label on a door in a burger joint.
The had a tiny little "harry potter style" cupboard under an escalator where they store CO2 containers for the fizzy drinks, instead of list most place having the soda stand free standing with good ventilation.
@@57thorns worked in pubs, had CO2 alarm system set up in the cellar.
policy was we had one person standing by the door watching the alarm and camera while the other person changed a barrel or whatever needed doing.
while I always followed procedure, we had an incident with a CO2 can leaking and a member of staff opening the door while the alarm was on to find out "why the coke machine was producing flat coke."
two warnings, flat drinks AND the CO2 alarm, and they ignored both.
they were fine in the end after i dragged them out, but there was a LOT of bollocking, both for the member of staff from me for ignoring the warnings, and for me charging in without any SCBA (which we didn't have, we were a pub after all) from the fire department.
Adopt this rule of thumb:
Always assume that any sign that reads "danger", "warning", "caution" etc is warning of an immediate threat to human life or health in the area. Even a wet floor sign is doing exactly that, as slipping on the wet floor can cause all manner of head trauma and even result in death.
If you do not fully know and understand the danger, do not proceed. Simple as that.
@@MGSLurmey Unknown unknowns are what gets you though. You can be as diligent as possible, but what you didn't know you didn't know will get you anyway.
A friend of my father (they're both seamen) almost died in the same circumstances.
It was on board of a cargo ship, transporting scrap metal in the Baltic Sea. There were some suspicious rattling and banging noises in the cargo bay (probably poorly secured cargo), and the captain sent in a group of 3 crewmen to inspect the cargo. They were going in a line when the first (leading) guy collapsed. Two remaining guys (including a friend of my father) tried to wake him up and passed out in the process.
Long story short - the dude whos story I'm telling was last in that line formation they were walking in along the corridor, and he turned back to call for help, so he was the furthest from the hypothetical center of "bad" air when he lost consciousness. And he is the only one who survived - after a lengthy rehabilitation in the hospital he developed a phobia and could not work far away from shore anymore.
Reason of disaster was the same: cargo (scrap metal) absorbed the oxygen from the air. Captain was sued for giving a malicious order and found guilty.
A malicious order of hey, go check that out? There has to be more to it than that.
You're found guilty in a criminal court. You're found liable in a civil court. BIG difference. One costs $$, the other your freedom. Which was it??
@@alexnutcasio936 If I recall correctly (I was like a 10 y.o. kid back there, no way to find out for certain now since we moved to another country) it was a criminal charge. I don't know the details, but that ship didn't have the required equipment to work in enclosed cargo spaces with potentially dangerous cargo (like oxygen masks and whatnot) but the captain still went ahead and ordered these guys go investigate.
The captain either was incompetent and didn't know about the potential danger, or simply forgot about the special risks of transporting metal scrap - this ship was not specialized for any cargo and they moved all kinds of stuff. Anyway, he clearly should not have given them the order he did, even if there were strange noises in the cargo bay. I'm not sure about the correct course of action (not a seaman myself) but he should probably have informed the coastal guards\other authorities about the situation and await instructions.
Why that unspecialized ship without special equipment was allowed to transport this sort of cargo is another good question. It happened in the late 90s in a post-soviet country (Lithuania) so I can imagine that personnel safety was not streamlined to the point it is in 2019.
Maritime law. I think Arrested Development covered that topic some
@@BiosElement a malicious order of "hey, go completely disregard the absolute most basic safety protocol that's taught to every schoolchild who takes a first aid course and all go in there at once. don't test the air or send the first guy in on a tether or anything like that, just mosey on in".
That's what we like to call criminal negligence.
I’ve definitely enjoyed learning about how NOT to die on a ship.
ThunderWazp yeah I found it macabre when he said “I hope you enjoyed this video” during the animation of the guy dying
How to avoid dying on a ship; (Step 1): Don't be on the ship
That boosts my confidence one going to France from England by ferry without my parents for the first time for a group scout trip 2 days after I write this comment
@@Tactical_Assault_Pelican Dont worry, you'll be fine....most likely.
@@glennrishton5679 dude ime going today and now you tell me
One of the most important things that you learn in a first aid / CPR / etc. class is that before you go to help someone, you look at the environment and think about whether it's dangerous for you to approach. Doesn't always work for situations like this where the threat isn't obvious, but always worth considering.
Although gases and a lack of oxygen are invisible you could probably still recognize the potential dangers as long as you are trained on confined spaces and their hazards. If you know that confined spaces often have toxic gases or oxygen deficiency inside them then upon seeing someone unconscious inside the space you would be able to recognize that they were probably overcome by toxic gases or a lack of oxygen inside the space. As someone who has watched many confined space safety videos on RUclips the moment the first worker went unconscious I immediately realized that he was probably overcome either by toxic gases or a lack of oxygen and that was well before it was revealed what actually happened to that person later in the video.
No joke this is extremely useful, I was totally oblivious to this danger until I saw this video
Me too. And I know an enclosed space regularly opened on my ship (numerous bolts). Watching this gave me a new perspective.
In our factory, there are designated enclosed spaces that can only be entered with a work permit licensed by the state. This license is so stringent that nobody is qualified at the plant to do the work. We have experts come in and we arrange a state inspector who comes out and issue the work permit that only last 6 hours. If the work last longer than that the have to stop and go through the process of reissuing the permit again. We take safety very seriously. In Europe some contractors died in enclosed spaces. There were using the plant’s pressurized air for their air supply. That’s against our policy, they’re supposed to have their own independent system for everything. Well the plant lost power for a few min and that was all it took for the workers to pass out and later die from suffocation.
Where
@@xPRODIGYxGAMER The comment you're responding to never mentions the factory being in Europe though? In fact it specifically says a plant in Europe had worse regulations.
@@XTriggerMasterX You don’t bring up a random plant in some different country of the world if you’re currently talking about your plant. Chances are he’s in Europe, where there was a devastating accident, which in turn had them to adjust their rules/regulations to prevent another.
If he does indeed _not_ live in Europe, then he should take a class on relevance of writing, and use an example from a plant in his own country, where the regulations can give you a good idea of the similarities of a plant and how to avoid these situations.
EDIT: Take a class as in, a short 5-minute Google course that will massively benefit them later on. I don’t expect anyone to go take an actual college course on this.
@@wrije Mate the comment was written by someone who lives outside Europe. The US is my guess, as he talks about 'state inspector's' and 'permits licensed by the state'. In Europe, I'm not aware of any country broken down into states, and this is also a term used regularly by Yanks.
@Jock McScottish you fundamentally misunderstand what a state is in the United States. Germany is a state, France is a state, Massachusetts is a state, Florida is a state. In some countries like Germany or Canada they have provinces but the states in the United States are not analogous to provinces in other countries. Provinces are generally organizational structures and not much more than that, states are literally their own Nations. If it makes it easier for you think of the United States as being the equivalent of the EU and the individual states as being the equivalent of the member states of the European Union, although ironically individual states in the USA have far more autonomy then EU member states.
The proverbial canary in a coal mine.... use sensors these days and check first.
Or don't go in unless it's absolutely necessary, annoying as the chain banging is, it's not necessary to go in there.
@@Ernoskij and even if required you should get an enclosed space permit from your safety officer first.
the canary is to detect methane or other poisonous atmosphere. Not the lack of oxygen.
@@michaelmccarthy4615 same principle.
I don't think it is the same. A canary probably would have been fine.
I spent a full day doing osha training on confined spaces. Really boring, but extremely important
It becomes less boring when you realize that it can save your life and that of others around you.
Wow guys I found the class badass over here.
@@AlMai222 Wow guys I found the boring troll over here.
Industrial piping engineer here, yep every year i get a new video on co fined spaces.
Yeah, the most boring safety courses are frequently the most important. The dangers that don't trigger our fear instincts and take meticulous measures to avoid can get us in trouble really quick. The long classes on things you would likely not think to be scared of before the class often have a mountain of bodies behind them.
Thank you.
You probably saved someone.
And now I know to look out for that.
Never thought about that
This is something huge in the aerospace industry as well. Fuel tank entry involves removal of similar access panels and the use of atmosphere detecting tools. Very interesting!
This reminds me of a somewhat similar set of circumstances, captured on police dashcam a long time ago: An officer was responding to a crashed tanker leaking noxious gasses. He saw a man on the ground near the gasses and went in to help. Moments later he was unconscious and died like the other man. These situations can quickly turn worse if proper caution isn't exercised
That incident was particularly sad because the police officer could see the fumes/fog caused by the leaking ammonia gas, but he thought it was smoke from a fire in the crashed vehicle. If he had realized it was a leak from the tank, he probably would have proceeded more cautiously instead of just running to the fallen person. By going more slowly he might have identified the danger while it was still possible to escape from the gas.
And even worse, the person who reported the crash had also reported the ammonia leak. So for example the firefighters also on their way to the crash were told to prepare for toxic gas. However the police officer was not warned, the message to him only mentioned a vehicle collision. If he had been warned of a reported ammonia leak, he probably would have survived.
@@CoastalSphinx Holy, that poor man was let down by dispatch
I know that video well. Anhydrous ammonia. Poor guy never had a chance.
i had two friends and a father die this way. they entered the pump house for a manure pound for service.
Damn
My condolences.
h2s gas?
I’m sorry friend :(
@@spawnof200 That is the number one cause for suffocation in facilities such as that, so probably.
Enclosed space must be ventilated sufficiently before entering!
Hey Anton. Have you ever worked within similar situations? Thank you.
and even then use a air testing tool to know how the quality inside is.
and as the guard outside Don't ever go inside. that's just a extra body in the worst case
Or correct breathing equipment.
@@VenturiLife or better both if possible.
There was a rule that personal protection equipment (PPE) such as ear protection, eye protection, steel-toed boots etc. is always the very last option. Whereever possible you should remove the cause of hazard first and then augment with equipment to be safe.
Had similar experience few years ago. Went on a trip. I accidentally blew a hose in a deep well with a ladder by closing wrong valve before switching off water pump. I almost thought I should reattach it when owner said - "only if you want to die there". There is no air to breathe down there, 50 meter well.
I'm an occupational health physician, and this video literally explains a whole course on confine space for me! Kudos to you brother
he sells these videos for training purposes too.
ignoring the warning via bolts, there should have been at least a simple sign on the cover that just says "you will suffocate" and that would be enough, but ideally the crew should also just be taught/know that in the first place without a sign
Instead of 18 thick bolts of whatever three words should have done the trick
@@Necrobin Any indication why it's dangerous to enter and therfore closed. They probably knew that they shouldn't go in there but did not know what to look out for.
@@CadelBL Six words then: Do not enter! You will suffocate!
@@Necrobin Guess I missunderstood
your point in the prevoius comment, totally agree with you
The thing is, the gas in an incosed space wont kill you most of the time so saying going down will kill you isnt logical
In my experience, ships are extremely dangerous and will consistently find new and improbable ways to kill and maim. Sailing isn't dangerous per se, but neither ships nor the sea gladly suffer the unwary or unwise.
The rule in the navy was that an enclosed space had to be ventilated well enough to have replaced the entire atmospheric volume of the space no less than twice before entry AND you had to wear breathing apparatus in the space AND you were required to operate in teams of three AND permission from the chief engineer was required before you could pop bolts on an enclosed space.
On my first ship, we had a big problem with constituent elements degrading and then reacting to form hydrogen sulfide, which for those who haven't been on ships, will kill you hella fast in an enclosed space. We had a guy die once when he tried to replace a section of mixed AFFF (basically 'roided-up laundry soap used as a firefighting agent)/seawater pipe for the non-firemain installed firefighting system. Turns out the mixture had been sitting there for a while and the inside of the pipe had acted like a catalyst for the reaction, so it was full of H2S. He was dead in two minutes. We didn't even find him until he'd been dead for three or four minutes.
There's a reason why most sailors in the past and even now are superstitious. You just don't know where bad things can happen and when it did, its always waiting to become catastrophic.
Very informative, thank you
H2S is absolutely insidious stuff. Imagine opening something and getting a blast of rotten egg smell but it quickly goes away... everything's ok, right? No, the H2S anesthetized your sense of smell and is continuing to kill you. Enough concentration and you'll drop dead on the spot.
Damn!!
Not the water but your own ship is the most danger thing on the sea XD
Nice video. I think a follow up is in order (especially after reading some of the comments on here) to explain why people don't recognise the dangers of confined spaces, and why confined space accidents are often double fatalities. Many people do not realise that our gasping reflex is triggered not by lack of oxygen but by high carbon dioxide levels, so many low oxygen environments (those without elevated carbon dioxide levels) feel perfectly safe until muscles suddenly stop working (because the blood supply is no longer providing them with oxygen) and the person collapses. It is quite common for a workmate to see this happen and think that the person has fallen, so they rush to help them and meet the same fate. This is why atmospheric gas monitors measure atmospheric oxygen content as well as levels of common toxic and flammable compounds, and many confined space entry procedures require connection to manned emergency rescue equipment (e.g. harness, retrieval rope, tripod).
if you are the safety guard outside of the entree of the enclosed space Never enter it under any condition. stand on your post and alarm others to go in. you stay at your post and don't leave until all people inside are out again or if a higher safety person orders you to do so and he/she is taking over.
even if it is your best friend or your own child. don't go in you are useless when you are died your self.
The safety guard was batting .500, he got the first part right by using the radio to notify the bridge, then he made his fatal error of entering the space. I have to wonder if opening and entering the space was a spur of the moment decision while they were in the bosun locker for something else. If it were planned then take the damn O2 meter.
When your buddy system "buddy" has no more brains than yourself
@@glennrishton5679 even if it was in the spur of the moment. The amount of bolts they had to remove already should give them time to think.
Even with a power drill it will take you some time to undo all of them.
@@sirBrouwer this is just an example is someone really that stupid? I guess not nowadays when we speak about that almost every safe meeting
@@ukaszw6623 it happens way to much that it still is something that needs to be drilled in.
At a plant i have worked people have died do to stupidity.
Even worse that a college later on wanted to make the same mistake at a other silo when i was the safety guard. I was still making my report to know if the silo was safe but the idiot went in to it before i gave permission. I immediately called the fire department and had the guy being pulled out. and he was fired the same day.
if even the example of death it self is not enough I don't know what will.
Tragic irony: couldn't sleep, now sleep forever. What a reason to die for.
The things people will do for a quiet nights sleep 😶
I had OSHA training for working in a confined space. After that course, no shortcuts. 4 gas meter, blower, contact nearest fire dept with confined space rescue capabilities, harness and tripod w/cable at the entrance. The outside man was told not to come in, winch me out. And the blower was helpful for freshening up the air. Don't do it with out training and a plan!!!
This event actually happened in front of me on the U.S.S. Ranger in forward port side chain hoist, I was supposed to be the one going down to unravel a knot that had developed on the chain but a bad slip sprang my ankle and couldn’t climb down the ladder. So another guy went down I was recuperating in my bunk when I was told that three men had passed out in the chain locker, I asked if they had vented the room before descending? The answer was easy to know they hadn’t we ever nearly lost three sailors just because I and the others that usually run/work in the anchor room weren’t there that day, it was bad on my part luck but as you said the simple idea that it is so locked up so tight that water or air can’t get in or out should’ve told them to check with me or someone who knew what to do!
My uncle had a somewhat similar experience. He is working as a facility manager on dry land in a well ventilated building. For the most part that is. One day he had to acompany a worker from another company who did a routine inspection of the fire supression equipment. They came across a not well ventilated room with a gaspipe and through some dumb luck the inspection worker managed to vent the gas pipe into the room. The Inspector collapsed and my uncle who was standing in the entry way nearly did too as they were in the only part of the building that was not ventialted. He managed to get stay concious near the floor, get out and call for help though, and nobody died. But he described the experience as the scariest thing ever.
Knowing this and watching this video, I hope I never come across a situation like this myself.
Mines are like that too. If you get deep enough or in a section with bad air, it can be fatal.
@@hihu7200And that's the reason for miners' historical use of canaries; they're much more sensitive to a problematic atmosphere than humans, and so if the poor little birdie drops dead, you GTFO.
They should have used a TMX to test the oxygen level as explosive gas or vapor levels. Also use of a rescue line would have been smart too.
Hindsight is 20/20
A rescue line? How would that help? An unconscious person can't do anything with it so you'd have to go down to attach it and... oh wait, you're also dead now.
-edit: I'll have to correct myself here, he probably meant a rescue line that is permanently attached to a harness before the dude went in. That actually would've helped them a lot, my bad.
@@n3lis94 not all confined spaces are the same. Some could be benefit from a line if its close to the access point. A line could also tell responders which direction to look if there are T intersections.
@@mixflipYou were talking about the situation in this video specifically, in which a line is completely useless until you are wearing oxygen gear. At which point the crew most likely did actually use a line to retrieve the three bodies.
@@n3lis94 you wear a harness with a line attached to you and a tripod where they can pull your unconscious body up. And you have to wear an air monitor which would have gone off alert as you started down
This is why I love RUclips so much. This was said so eloquently and also visually perfect, I have ADHD and it was easy to understand. Thanks for the original content. I will carry on the baton and do my part. Cheers boys and girls
Being a first responder and having taken a class that talked about confined space awareness this is what the instructor talked about. He said for every victim that is involved 2 rescuers become a victim also. In this case the first guy goes down. Partner who is looking to rescue the first guy becomes the second and the last guy who goes down to rescue the 2 others become the 3rd victim.
Learned this in the navy, one of the bolts also had a small hole drilled into it on covers over the bilges so that when partially unscrewed you could feel air escaping which indicated there was flooding in that particular space before the cover was unsealed.
That is an awesome tidbit of knowledge thanks
I worked as a safety technician for a major shipyard. This was the #1 routine of the job, inspecting spaces on various commercial and navy ships so workers could work safely.
O2 levels are the #1 concern, but chain lockers are ESPECIALLY dangerous because they also accumulate hydrogen sulfide gas (aka "sewer gas") because of the decaying plant-life that is often found growing on chains while they are in the sea. O2 depletion will knock you out but you can be saved if responders come quickly enough, but H2S will just kill you instantly.
I was thinking about something like this to be the deadliest thing in that space. Even basic anchors can have quite of an biofilm accumulation. Can't even think how much there is that in big vessels.
Anchor chain room should have holes for ventilation and seawater removal purpose during the bad weather.
RedekerEleven why is H2S so deadly
@@bleachesbrother6697 H2S binds to the cytochrome enzyme in mitochondria, preventing cell respiration. In other words, even if there is oxygen available, your cells can't use it if they're full of H2S, because the parts they would normally use to utilize oxygen are bound to H2S instead. So, even removing a person from the toxic air doesn't help them, as there is no way to remove H2S from the cells.
Being in the chemical industry, I've gotten lots of confined space training. It's the most common reason for fatalities, not explosions or poisonous gasses.
My "ah-ha" moment was physiological understanding why people don't notice the lack of oxygen. Our bodies trigger the need to breath due to build-up of CO2 in our blood, NOT the reduction of O2. In low O2 atmospheres, you still expel CO2. So you never realize your O2 is plummeting until you lose unconsciousness. This is why it is so scary ... you have no warning that you are in danger.
It's not just lack of Oxygen, but also presence of inert gasses used for welding, CO or other exhaust gasses from equipment, and other contaminants that can make confined spaces very dangerous, both during construction and afterwards. The Navy and shipyards treat this problem very seriously, and have extensive confined space certification programs to test air and post whether they are safe to enter or not. Confined spaces that are not safe to enter cannot be entered by any part of your body.
Argon is spooky man
Well that's not a specific "navy" thing. It's on pretty much all industries
Before retiring, I worked on US Navy ships, and we were warned never to enter confined spaces that hadn't been checked by a certified person. We always believed that warning, but now I have some idea what they were talking about. It's too bad I didn't know at the time that I was working.
"Sorry boss, that looks like an enclosed space"
You go down first eh? Lol
8 words that'll save your life.
Sounds like something I’d see on “Refined” lmfao
@@eamonia Or get you fired if youre wrong
@@TheAdriyaman better fired than dead
I love this channel. It explains things that most of us landlubbers wouldn't have even thought about. And the quality has steadily been improving over time. Not that it was ever a bad channel, it's always been good. It's just better now. Thanks so much for taking the time and obviously quite a lot of effort to make these. The world needs more people like you who enjoy sharing their knowledge with others and do it well.
This also works perfectly in farm silos, and sewer pipes/tanks.
If you get enough subscribers to make this a commitment as opposed to a hobby, would you upload weekly? I always look forward to your videos!
If I got to the stage where my video skills could generate an income, then I would do 1 or 2 per week. Until then, it is just a fun hobby for me.
@@CasualNavigation And a hobby that the rest of us enjoy too. Thanks!
@@CasualNavigation what do you use to make your videos, how did you get into this hobby? I've always wanted to learn to do this to animate my dogs. :)
I use the adobe suite for all these. Then tutorials on RUclips are the best way I have found to teach myself.
@@CasualNavigation wow man, you have some SERIOUS time invested in each video! Makes us appreciate the content just that much more.
Thanks very much for the reply.
"I'm not gonna go into exactly how you should enter those spaces" - Good call.
But just in case there's someone out there hoping to learn the procedure from the internerds, here it is, including an easy memorization tool:
D-O-N-T
As in: DON'T.
Because if you have to ask the internerds, you absolutely positively have no business going in there.
And don't even think "but what if someone's in there and I'm the only person around to rescue them". You keep out _especially_ if there's already someone in there unconscious. If you screw this up, you're _literally_ *dead* *before* *you* *even* *know* *it* . And become additional *bait* *in* *a* *death* *trap* .
Confined space is very rarely kill one. Because always somebody's going to try to go in and help, and unless you've got a professional stopping you right there you're going to be dead too.
This happening on a rescue ship reminds me of when (and this is a true story, I swear) my school had a fire drill, and a teacher forgot some bread in the staff lounge toaster, and it actually caught fire. Ah, the irony.
So, a fire caused by a drill? Oh my! 😬😂
I heard of accidents like this on land e.g. people cleaning big tanks. Good to know some possible reasons.
Not only you make great videos, today you may have saved some lifes in the future! Thanks!
Radiation and stale air is one of the most dangerous hazard because of the false sense of security. You don't feel it until it's too late.
When I was working on Drill ship's offshore we regularly got training and warning about closed spaces. I am surprised that people aboard a vessel, especially one involved with rescue work, would have crews unaware of such things and be so lacking in knowledge about enclosed spaces.
Makes sense, my grandad always told me never go into enclosed spaces and now I know why
Thanks!
Similar thing can also happen in caves.
I've heard of a "dog killer" (not an official name) cave where if you came with your dog it would suffocate but you were fine. The reason is some gasses that are heavier than air are near the floor of the cave so your dog can't breathe but you are fine (as long as you don't try to lie down).
Same thing happened to a worker in my apartment when i was 6. He was in the room where all toilets of the apartment have air ventilation. Basically where the toilet fans are connected, where smelly air leaves the toilet and enters that room. He was strapped up and was going up to do some cleaning, and he just died. I did not know the reason until i watched this. Thanks for educating us
Had to inspect a two voids (enclosed space on an aircraft carrier) I left my OBD on while unbolting the second hatch and it saved my life
I hadnt even finished removing the hatch , but I realized something was wrong because it was rattling ,the explosive gas monitor started screaming and the safety observer got word people 2 decks above us were getting sick/dizzy all within 30 seconds.
I was already tightenting the nuts back on the access.
If the passageway hadnt been well ventilated it would have been lethal for those people.
If we hadnt been wearing our OBD's while loosening the bolts we would have died as well.
It took a couple of days to figure out what went wrong.
What had happened was a contractor painted the space and bolted the access shut before it dried.
The space had filled with fumes , the fumes had over a year to decay and react with ALL the oxygen in the space so there was a lot of light hydrocarbons in the top of the space and other heavier gasses in the bottom and zero oxygen.
The access cover was in the top of the void.
When I loosened the bolts the gasses rushed out and air tried to fall into it( causing the cover to rattle) and so much gas came out at once that it overwhelmed the negative ventilation we set up.
Fortunately the ships normal ventilation system was able to clear the air in the passageway before anyone was overcome ,or anything ignited it, and we rigged up a way to seal the passageway from us instead of just using negative ventilation before we VERY SLOWLY reloosened the nuts.
P.S.
Chain lockers are notorious for low oxygen content because the chain scrapes off iron filings into the locker everytime it is raised or lowered so eventually you get enough filings (with very high surface area) to consume all the oxygen.
The most dangerous thing about such situations is that you won't even notice that you're suffocating.
The human body is not designed(*) to sense a lack of oxygen. It is only designed to sense an excess of carbon dioxide.
(*metaphorically speaking)
There are numerous physiological responses to hypoxia and hypercapnia . There is no actual 'conscious' perception of blood gas levels per se - you may be able to recognise certain clinical signs associated with hypoxia or hypercapnia . Hypocapnia (in e.g hyperventilation) can also cause signs - the low CO2 causes a rise in pH which in turn can lead to a decrease in ionised calcium - hypocalcaemia - signs include Trousseau's and Chvostek's sign , acute dysarthria (inability to articulate speech due to laryngeal muscle spasms) . (I'm an MD)
@@DrTWG The point is, your body doesn't recognize hypoxia in any way that would motivate you to leave the danger zone. Not unless you've had special training to consciously recognize _your_ specific symptoms of hypoxia.
@@CLipka2373 Just goes to show how important it is to be clear about what your talking about .
@@DrTWG or just goes to show you don’t need to be a know it all on RUclips comment sections
@@teddytysoe3310 Yes and posting vacuous drivel is OK as well.
There are stories of this happening to people in ditches out in the open, it doesnt just have to be enclosed spaces. There are ditches that actually might lack oxygen or crawl spaces under buildings and such with below oxygen levels.
Yep! Carbon Dioxide is heavier than oxygen, and it's not the only gas which is.
But how exactly would that happen? What would change the composition of air sufficiently to cause that, unless it was, like, septic seepage or something like that?
I love the animation of the spinning bolts.
Something similar occurred right next door to me.
3 workers died when cleaning a 12m deep water well.
One collapsed while in the bottom of the well, and the 2 guys who went into help the first guy, and also suffocated.
One labourer left a wife and three young children - very, very sad.
These are very well done the animation is very good and the videos are informative
Thanks Mcbeefatron
Yes. Very well done.
This was very educational.
I heard about a similar situation with Wells or deeper holes about people dying in them. Scary.
When I used to fix industrial garbage compactors, some of the big ones had the potential for low oxygen levels. We wore a vest attached to what looked like a giant fishing rod in case we passed out
When working on Shuttle Orbiter we had the same thing happen in an enclosed space. Two men went into a space open at top, used to hold rocket fuel. Fumes had pooled at bottom and they both died.
Is this different than the fatalities from prepping STS-1. That was entering the engine compartment after a nitrogen purge.
Totally preventable tragedy. Massive failure of vessel senior leadership, (Master, Chief Engineer & Chief Bosu’n), to train/drill the crew in emergency response discipline. No new technical ground here, the lessons have already been learned across in many similar mishaps across the Fleet.
It's common knowledge that enclosed spaces should be ventilated before getting into them, no need to put the blame on higher-ups for that.
@@Asigmatizam When three people die in preventable ways, someone needs to be held accountable. Workers take their lead from management and managers job descriptions include enforcing safety procedures. There should have been signage and regular training sessions specifically about this kind of hazard.
One death is an accident, two or more is negligence.
@@Asigmatizam Well, youre not allowed to work in enclosed spaces without a permit. And the permit has do be signed by an officer.
This seems like soemthing they rushed as they wanted to sleep better.
@@Asigmatizam it's not common knowledge, you're supposed to have training before entering any enclosed.space. the man above policy was good but the lack of training here was BAD.
The scenario that you just described happened on one of the vessels of my seafaring days. I was on leave at the time, but I knew the deceased Captain and Mate. During an inspection of a Double bottom under an inerted LPG cargo hold, one person collapsed and another went in to rescue him and also collapsed. A crack in the steelwork had allowed inert gas to enter the double bottom, but failure to test and ventilate the atmosphere meant that this tragedy was then inevitable. A very heartbreaking affair. Unfortunately, in my later career, there were still those who thought safety rules did not apply to them
Yes, a good safety concept relies on multiple layers. Personal Protection Equipment always is the last option to augment. Try your hardest to remove the cause of the hazard first.
This video might save lives. Good job!
I used to work at a waterpark and we had a massive enclosed space where water would pool before getting pumped to the slides and I was always told to never go down there and I figured it was because of the dark and the water but thinking about it now it would have been nearly impossible to breath down there
This is why you don’t rush in when you see someone collapse in a room, without apparent reason. Especially when the room has been closed for quite some time. The reason might not be apparent but the reason is absolutely there. The first rule you’re taught during any rescue class is “safety first, first your own safety, then the safety of the victims”
I always remember my Emergency Medical training instructor saying that if two people are unconscious and you don't have a full protective suit, go back the way you came because you cannot even try to help. Also the chances that two people become unconcious with no immediately clear cause is so low that it's always worth to save yourself.
Very interesting video - brings back some information that had long before taught at school, e.g. that the rusting of metals is in fact a burning, that (although fireless) therefore uses up Oxygen !
I would probably have been one of those dead crew members, because I wouldn't have been able to make this cognitive connection and remember the physics classes of my school days !
So thanks even more for posting this !
Yep, back when i got my FIRST job i didnt know the dangers of enclosed spaces, and my boss at the time was a man who didnt know that safety was a word, let alone its meaning. At the time i was installing pipe work between buried concrete tanks on various mine sites all over australia. So that meant i was down inside these big tanks, accessed via a VERY SMALL manhole up top and a spindly little ladder and working with drills, PVC pipe primer and glue, getting HIGH AF and im amazed i wasnt killed. I did eventually get taught about these dangers, some years later, but initially, i was an empty headed kid from a small village that came to the big city for work and found it in the form of a careless old man and his truck. He would make me work in the rain with electrical tools, as soon as it was evening (any time after 5pm) he would drink alcohol and then drive and only when HE got tired would we stop for the night and sleep in the work truck ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD because he would NOT pay for a motel or room at the pub for ONE NIGHT!
Damn, glad you lived.
@@Jszar I learned a lot of ways how NOT to do things! I still see the old guy every now and again. Hes still kickin', in his 90s now I believe.
Those bolts remind me of a summer working at an electric substation.
Most of the stuff inside the gates (all gates are locked by padlocks) are safe if you are on ground level. The wires are high above, the transformers have their contacts on the top several meters up etc.
But there are enclosures within the yard that are locked with bolts. Those are the capacitors, which hold line voltage at (physical) ground level.
I was a bricklayer and masonry worker on the 2012 Olympic park site. we were building the many massive deep underground tunnels and drain shafts etc under the site grounds, I had to travel out of London just to do my confined spaces certificate. I had to use a petrol saw down there once and it took only a brief time and I had to retire from the fumes, pulled up by my safety harness line. My mates took turns till the task was done. We filled out a fire certificate for many of these dangerous jobs and always your partner is trained to pull you out safely by a cab,e. one time I really appreciated health and safety on site.
today on site deep manholes are checked first and with a electronic atmospheric / gass indicator device and not a canary thank goodness. Fire safety hazard certificates etc issued especially for power tools (can cause sparks igniting gasses /explosions) before any work can commence
I learned about that in the Navy, but I enjoyed the refresher course,thanks
In the US, we call it a confined space. " Not designed for human occupancy" a place you won't stay nor perform normal routine work.
I got out of the Navy too many decades ago to admit to, and the dangers of ship voids "restricted spaces" was constantly hammered into us. So isn't this training standard for all mariners?
Except for the occasional Cruise, I've been a land lubber since I got out; however, my employer uses a variety of environmental chambers that are treated as enclosed spaces. We undergo training every year. So in this day and age, it surprises me that these accidents still happen.
We human's are a stubborn species.
Thank you for your very informative and interesting videos.
Every time i've refreshed my training qualifying me for tank entry this incident is used as an example. Great video explaining it
If you've ever worked in a factory, you get this type of scenario told to you in training. The plant I'm at has tons of enclosed spaces with the only entrance bolted shut. Just sticking your head in without breathing equipment can make you lightheaded.
i mean,if u see 18 bolts its a clear sign you're NOT supposed to be there
If you weren't supposed to go in there wouldn't be a hatch at all
@@ryanwilliams2011 All compartments on a ship need to be accessible by some means, in case something inside them breaks. The bolted shut hatch should have had an enclosed space warning on it, and likely the chain lockers on large vessels now have such placards.
Yes and no, I work on ships. You're supposed to have confined spaces training. All spaces with mechanical shit are supposed to be accessible.
On the ships I work on enclosed spaces are very clearly marked. The failure here was the second man going in on his own, he should have waited for help and breathing equipment otherwise what is the point of having a man above?
Thats a clear sign that regular person shouldn't be there because they don't usually carry the things pros do. The message is clear. Understand and act according to the situation. Stay out where you don't have to go in. Don't act like you know everything.
@@cr4zyj4ck Well... back in the olden days, the room for the anchor cable was well ventilated, and the cable laid on gratings, allowing water to drain into the bilge, and the cable to dry, rather than rot
Always have your air monitor set up!
The Viking Islay vessel, I remembered doing this as a case study in my Maritime Bachelor's.
Not everyday that I see life-saving information on RUclips. This is something I did not know and I would have made a similar mistake. Thanks!
Recently there was a similar incident back in my town, a dog food factory worker was cleaning a huge drum where bones and blood were kept, he went down the ladder and died in a moment
I love your videos sir. They are awesome. Straight to the point, interesting and so informative. I'm working on boats now and was not aware how dangerous it was. Thank you
Thanks squidgysailor. It's wonderful to hear the video is raising everyone's awareness already.
Love the videos mate, makes me learn about things I didn't know I wondered about xD
Not only did 3 people die, the surviving crew members still had to listen to those dam clanging chains all night.
Only now the clanging chains served as a sad reminder and dire warning.
Bwahaha!!! Sure, I know it's horrible that 3 people died and all but that's some funny shit dude. Brilliant.
The chain must be fed.
It's a bad horror movie plot come to life.
This video has made me quite aware of the dangers of any space without good ventilation. Thank you. Information can save lives.
As an engineer in the Navy that was one of the most important safety procedures they taught us. Never go into an enclosed space, usually an oil tank, alone or without a safety harness. And the guy tending the line on the harness couldn't just jump in to help you if you collapsed. He had to call for help first, even if it looked like the guy inside was going to die from asphyxiation. That way you didn't wind up with 2 dead snipes
0:45 another blurry box here too! Again, just asking why it's there
It’s covering up a logo, i guess it has to do with copyright.
@@IcySpicy3 ok
I know the family of one of these men. He died really young, it was really sad.
How old
This can also be a problem on shore. My biology teacher told a story about a farmer that went into his vine cellar and died because not only was there a lack of oxygen but the atmosphere had a lot of CO2.
Tldr: DO NOT KLIMB ON FARM SILOS FOR THE SAME REASON!!!
Now long story. Near me is a farm run by a family friend of ours and his fam. When I was little I thought the farm belonged to him until my mum told me that it is rented. She said I even saw the owner on one feast but I was too young to remember.
She told me that this sad old lady had lost her husband and only son to a similar incident. They were working in the barn filling up silos. These were only accessible from the top by a crane. This crane was operated from a wired console on a pathway over the silos to provide vision inside it. One day One of the two either father or son I don't remember fell inside. The other one jumped after to help him. Even though they both survived the 5+m fall into the partially filled silo they both suffocated silently without anyone knowing since the fermentation of grass produces gasses heavier than air that pushes it above head level and breathing distance. They were only found hours later with no hope of rescue and eventually the lady decided to put the farm out for rent.
Imagine that death or finding the corpses after hours of search...
This might be common knowledge to people whose work is related to this stuff but to me its something im thankful for of learning, if there will ever be a time i'm face with the same scenario. Thanks man, wish you the best.
i work in confined space. what you should do before entering the hole or space is to set up air ventilation to get rid of any chemical smell they can harm you.. after that you should call a authorise person to set a gas test to check if the air is safe to breath.. but sadly. in some places they skip ventilation.. fyi.. gas test should be done every 2 hours
It's sad that some places skip the ventilation. Hopefully if people understand the danger they will refuse to go in and keep themselves safe.
you can go in with out airing but then only with full independent air. preferred with 2 airlines pumping clean air via a airline and a 3th backup on your own back.
i have worked as the person standing outside of the confined space and guarding the safety of people like you going inside.
This reminds me of the story of a whole family passing out in their root cellar due to potatoes aging. They went down one by one to see why the previous person was taking so long to come back.
Damn did they survive?
@@christopherpape4823 No
@@neemaborji9993 I think I have heard of that one. Did a single daughter not survive because she called for emergency services rather than go down herself?
That's why in construction we are taught to NEVER enter a confined space if a worker is found unconscious. We are to wait until someone with proper gear can go in there.
Same with working in the shipping industry with semi trailers. Most commonly dry ice can fill the trailer with CO2
@@A6Legit There's a video of russian pharmacists for someone's birthday throwing a ton of dry ice in a hot tub and they were all jumping in and the ones who did died
@@people235 Wooow thats fucked. What kinda idiot pharmacists would do that?
This is the same way where my friend died, he went in a enclosed space in a boat , followed by a second member , after going in there was no response from them , then the third person went in ,he managed to get both out of the confined space , but first 2 person died at spot and third person was in ICU for a long time ..
Wow thank you! I am watching your content since I found it today. they where all really interesting and I am glad as a "normal land person" who doesnt know anything about these topics, to have people like you who manage to give me an understandable look inside! fascinating!
And this video gave me an especially "wow" effect, too see how rust and other chemicals interactions can actually be so fatal in closed spaces over time, where you would normally never think about -or more so for "the rust itself weekenigs the steel, but NOT the gas mixture changing.
Thank you and greetings from Germany