But who looks at these gg as role models for their lives ... Their songs are all about 'im better than you' songs copy and paste. All the empowerment that I've seen is from lesserafim. Other than them no other gg does that.
These gg have this masquerade of we are empowered but all it is is just them saying oh I'm better than that girl cause I'm skinny / have money / am pretty. Lol. They can't want to promote toxic behaviour and want to be called empowered and empowering. It doesn't work like that. Hope I make sense.
@@PLATO97 my problem with the whole empowerment gg: If the message is written by producers and the concept assigned to them, how exactly is that a rolemodel its still Marketing (regardless of If it actually works)😅 Also you are right almost all of them are the I am better than everybody so I live myself and I am rich....Like
Their labels promote them as the fake empowered girls so that the female audience is attracted to them. But the actual empowerment is never explored further than using empowerment as a theme / aesthetic/ concept. All the actual lyrics of these gg are so shallow. Except from what I've seen from lesserafim. They are the only gg I can say Ok I feel empowered by their music. Eg. Impurities/ good parts / I=doll etc
i am so proud that yeri from redvelvet was one of the few idols that openly supported holland when he was reciving hate and are close friends proud of our maknae
As a bi woman on the queerbaiting issue. I can see where the problem is but we don't know these people's sexualities. They won't tell us and likely will never tell us. I don't think we can necessarily call it queerbaiting if we don't even know if they are queer to begin with. I also think if it's done tastefully to bring awareness (like OnlyOneOf) then it is bringing visibility and more fans who are LGBTQ+ to the fandom/K-Pop fandom. This is just what I feel however and I welcome discussion and differing opinions. Much love to my LGBTQ+ family. Happy Pride Month ❤
I don't doubt that some of these idols are actually gay and they're getting to live the closest thing they can get to living their best gay life because skinship is ok in K-pop. What i don't like is the times when you can tell that the members are uncomfortable and don't want to do it - that's not cool. 🖤💜
@@highheeledfagin Yes I agree. I think forcing it is horrible especially when some idols are more conservative with touch. I myself am someone who is not fond of being touched due to sensory issues so I would feel a lot of pressure to be forced to have skinship if I was an idol.
i'm a lesbian and i agree, i don't think it's ever really appropriate to accuse a real person of queerbaiting. the definition of that word has been twisted and people use it way too loosely now, queerbaiting is something done in FICTIONAL contexts or by CORPORATIONS, not real individuals! saying "you can't act gay (because that's queerbaiting)" is not the progressive take some people think it is. one example i always think of is the youtubers dan and phil, they were being accused of queerbaiting a lot at one point. they made videos together from 2009-2019 before they both came out as gay. people had been calling them out for queerbaiting when they were literally just...being queer lol but yeah, idols being made to do skinship and stuff despite being clearly uncomfortable sucks and that's 100% on either the companies or "fans"
@@HobanProduction while queerbaiting does exist in the industry, most of the time we don't have any way of knowing what is and isn't queerbaiting, two idols could be cuddling up with each other because they genuinely want to, but i've seen some people claim that nearly all skinship is queerbaiting which i think is borderline homophobic. policing same sex affection (between two consenting people) in any context is just iffy to me, that's the issue i take with people using the term queerbaiting so loosely plus the fact that some people blame the idols rather than their companies. it's definitely a complicated issue though
Seventeen is a huge supporter of LGBTQ individuals. Scoups has been photographed wearing a jean jacket with a gay pride flag on the back, Vernon has been photographed many times wearing gay pride clothing the 8 has also been photographed wearing clothing that supports the Trevor Project. Vernon went viral on Twitter for a interview comment he made supporting LGBTQ Community. When Mingyu made Bong Bong the Seventeen mascot he made it gender neutral. Mingyu also has a close friend who is a Trans individual.Vernon stated he loves to push the boundaries between masculinity and feminine and often wears clothing that would be considered feminine. Hoshi also feels their is no line between masculine and femine and that is why he chose to record a song and make the choreography femine using both female and male dancers. I really feel that as South Korea progresses the younger generation will make the LGBTQ community more seen and heard. One thing I can say is South Korea does have Gay Pride events which should they should be credited for. Anyway at the end of the day the best thing is to educate people on the topic and to be open to answering questions they may have. This helps them see a perspective they may not have seen or heard before. You can only hope to open peoples minds but we all know there will always be those who hate for their own ignorant reasons. I choose to welcome everyone. You may have differences in some areas but all in all we are all human and want to be treated with respect.
@@refan-6021 what is there not to support? why should a person's identity and choice to love be unsupported? why is someone else's sexual orientation a bother to you?
also a lot of the homophobic verses people reference are mistranslated e.g. 'man shall not lie with man' was a mistranslation of 'man shall not lie with BOY' which is condemning paedophilia rather than homosexuality
I think people often forgot about Shinee and their relationship with the lgbt community. I think they're one of the few older groups that genuinely care and support the group and the each members. Jonghyun with his social awareness work, Taemin and Key's genderbreaking work in dance and fashion, Minho playing a gay character in a drama, and i forgot but i do know Onew also has supported too. Also abt fanservice i think it's the company that pushes them to feed into the fans fantasies, that's why rps is fickle bc it really should've been between fans ONLY. And one thing fans should keep in mind is SOKOR is super conservative so dont put idols on pedestal
Seb, please listen to Jiae. She's a bisexual idol who suffered a lot of backlash for dating a woman. She debuted solo last year with the mini album LOVE IS LOVE, she's so so talented and underrated, she's also the sweetest person ever.
just reiterating something seb said during this live stream !! (im the dwaaekki account, i popped up a lot in this chat lol) hatred is NOT WELCOME HERE. this is a safe space, we are all supportive, if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist or anything else of that nature you are not welcome here and you will either be banned or end up getting dunked on by everyone else in the comments. dont be a dick, be kind its free.
just want to add on to the part about trans kpop idols, there's a newer independent group called QI.X, all of the members are trans/nonbinary. their debut single is called "lights up" if you want to check it out, unfortunately they don't have any MVs or anything probably because they're an independent group and therefore underfunded. but they're talented i think they have a lot of potential!
38:00 I’m queer myself and I don’t necessarily think the fanservice and the queerbating are bad cause many people get pleased by it and it doesn’t hurt anyone. But my problem is that I think the Idols are often very uncomfortable with it cause they get forced to do it even tho sometimes they don’t want to. With groups like for example Mamamoo or even Straykids (But I don’t ship any of them romantically) where you can see their strong relationship with each other and see they’re naturally touchy and stuff I don’t think It’s that uncomfortable. Tho with like IVE and other groups which started of as a business relationship I think they would be uncomfortable with suddenly being that touchy and playing those games when they just started to get better friends and try to get to know each other better. So my opinion is a bit split cause I don’t think it’s bad as long as nobody feels uncomfortable. But I’m just a bit annoyed by the very young straight girls who believe Idols are in a relationship and constantly buying into it because they hug each other.(Sorry for my English It’s not my first language and I hate using translators and stuff so I try to write texts on my own).
I agree ^^ it can be fun when the idols are having fun with it and are close, but if they don’t know each other to that extent and have a business relationship it can be uncomfortable.
Yeah I believe that groups who you can see are naturally very close and are naturally very touchy/skin ship type of thing like Seventeen, Stray Kids, Mamamoo you can tell that they don’t mean the touchiness in a romantic sort of way just it’s because they’ve been together for a long time and are very comfortable with each other
i think that it's hard to say that a real person is queer-baiting as we don't know their sexuality. for all we know, the idol *is* gay and can't come out for their own safety/ career/ personal relationships/ reputation. the fact that coming out is dangerous for idols makes it make me feel skeptical that they can really queer-bait; we don't know (and probably won't) if they are lgbtq+
Being queer and a massive fan of kpop has always been kinda werid for me? Mainly I guess straight fans getting triggered that there is a chance that one of their idols might be queer, they always say "don't question their sexuality." But the thing is I don't, part of that is also not assuming their straight? I just don't say anything and frankly their sexuality is none of my buisness and its not hard to not assume something private about someone when you're fully aware that you're trying to get hints on someone parasocially? Another thing I find very uncomfortable about queerbaiting and fan service of that nature is the intended audience... the intended audience is straight teenage girls which goes into the fetishization territory which is just not ok at all. This obviously isn't just in the kpop industry, with the rise of BL drama's in many countries it has gotten a lot bigger like Thailand and America. This isn't me attacking BL fans as I'm one myself, if you watch them for the story and find it interesting than I don't mind it. If you're watching it PURLEY because its 2 guys kissing or... other stuff, that goes into uh not good territory and is very harmful. This isn't to say that kpop is all doom and gloom for queer fans. I think that more recentley idols are making more remarkes to the lgbtq community in a positive, not fan servicey way. The biggest examples I see of this is Shinee, who are extremely open supporters of the lbgtq community. OnlyOneOf which portray queer stories through their solos, and AleXa who has bluntley stated multiple times that she supports the lgbtq community and especially the trans community.
I’ll personally think queerbaiting is quite funny in the K-pop industry just because I know for the fact that they’re using it for marketing purposes and I know as much as I hate it it’s never going to change but at the end of the day I still watch the ships and I still support.That’s because I’m bored half of the time or even washing dishes but anyways, as much as I hate it, I know it’s never gonna go away. It’s always gonna be a main thing in the industry and so many more things in the world not even just K-pop industry, but in multiple industries, it’s just a marketing thing to earn more money. This is same thing in the BL industry Where they use skinship to profit when they have their fans signs and they tell jokes or even say things like oh we hugged or we kissed it’s just a marketing things to make the fans go wild and love everything and every bit of it so they can just put it onto the Internet, and everybody starts wanting to see more and more and more of that But it’s whatever it might affect others more than me but I still think it’s quite funny.
Yoongi and Jimin are the biggest allies and my biggest inspirations, they never ever miss the opportunity to uplift and support our community in every way possible. They're probably queer too, but we can talk about that once they feel comfortable and safe in that shit country.
Facts. I think Low-key Joon, hoba, tata and jk are both queer too. All of bangtan is definitely allies. It'd be weird if they were not lol. Given that iarchmybacula is on their team.
@@PLATO97 right? all of bts give me ally vibes ofc, especially namjoon cause he's so open about consuming queer media and learning about the history of the lgbtq+ community and i didn't wanna say this cause i was a lil bit scared at first but statistically, there could be one or more queer person(s) within the group and it wouldn't be surprising at all.
@taed4372 since we're talking about it, I'm 100% sure yoongi is bisexual. Thus man has said his tongue will make men and women have an orgasm and said in an interview that his attraction isn't exclusive to women like... BISEXUAL KING WBK
@@lennyanyn Honestly, since nobody knows BTS members' sexuality, quit saying you're 100% sure, because you can't be sure, and what you think Yoongi said, he didn't say. I choose to be open about the subject and accept and love everyone, but I don't assume the members' preference, and if I did I'd say they're all straight or bi. I don't know so I'm doing exactly what you and others are doing - presuming. Who the hell cares anyway? They all support all races, genders and sexualities so that should be enough.
I agree with many of the comments that queer people can’t queerbait. I also think we should give idols grace of leniency just BECAUSE they can’t safely come out. I know the statistic of queer people have been brought up before, how 1 in every 5 people are queer, so in every group with 5+ people at least one of them will be queer. However, kpop is basically Korea’s theater scene. And if it’s one thing theatre kids are known for, it being queer. So the 1 in 5 number is probably a lot higher. As for the shipping part.. *sigh* the most basic take yet again. I’ve been in fandom and shipping for 13-ish years now? My first ship was actually rpf, then I stepped away from rpf for 8-ish years because it made me uncomfortable. Now I’m back in it 🤷🏼♀️ It was still VERY EASY to not demonise rpf, or start witch hunts against shippers, who in my broad experience, are also overwhelmingly queer. Fandom in large have forgotten the golden rule of ”Don’t like? Don’t read.” or rather, ”Don’t like? Don’t engage.” The X button exists for a reason. Block people. Curate your timeline. Shippers have existed since the 60/70s (with star trek) and no matter how many death threats or ”kill yourself” messages they recieve, shippers are still gonna exist. Now, I do firmly believe that shipping should be KEPT AWAY from the idols. At any cost!! AO3 and censored twitter communities exist for a reason. ”Proof”-videos and etc that’s being shared on tiktok makes me cringe too, that’s the wrong platform. Keep it contained. However, the anti-shipping people also have a huge problem. They are DRIPPING with homophobia. Just the other day I saw someone say it was better to be ”a [straight] delulu than a shipper”. I’ve seen women post ”[male members] position is missionary in bed with me 😊” under OFFICIAL ACCOUNT TWEETS. I’ve seen people TAGGING the official accounts in their straight sexual fantasies. And yet if shippers point at two same sex members and say they hold hands and kiss on the lips, they’re the disgusting ones. It’s always ”don’t assume their sexuality” (i agree with op there) but it’s always only applicable to queer sexualities. Sebastine: as for your question why people ship, there’s been many theories over the years, but the one that resonate with me the most is the idea that gay men in a relationship are completely equal. There is no patriarchy, as you mentioned. It’s less fetishising gay men because two men kissing are hot (again, the vast majority of fandom creators I’ve met are queer), but rather an escape to a reality where the reader is also on the societal top. A world where we don’t have to be women. I’m also ace so bodies and especially sex can at times be very icky for me, and reading about bodies that’s opposite from mine (i’m a woman) can help with the disconnect, the ”its not real” factor. Hope that made sense.
If you haven’t seen MASH the tv series from the 70-80’s there’s a character who cross dresses in order to be discharged. The series is set in a front line medical unit during the Korean War. I highly recommend it if you haven’t already seen it.
The k pop industry is so weird. It’s like looking at a different world. Just let people be people and artist be artists. And stop forcing the artist to do skin ship and fan service…you will never be rid of shippers while the industry encourages it.
Actually kpop artists r not into the same gender lover, even the Korean community before they forbid it.. if u ask the auntie the father or the mother of the artist they will immediately be disqualified to their son or daughter. It is harsh?. Yes it is. Just because kpop desperately wants to be the top world artist they suddenly accept anything that is offering to them. They are trying to expand the economy becoz kpop is the biggest fundamental to the Korean economy. So that is why, lgbtq community who are desperately asking to normalize their agenda found the solution by supporting kpop massively. U can see people like taylor Swift, camella csbello, Billie ish support this community then they suddenly burst up to the top.. But when Lgbtq reaches kpop they discover that kpop is huge in Asia, so that is why if the artists were not supporting this community then the group will hardly succeed even though they're superbly talented the other already famous group. 😅😅 Now.. being kpop u don't need talent. U just need to support LGBTQ then the world will accept u too. 😂😂😂😅
Queerbaiting is a dividing topic, but I personally think you can't queerbait is you don't know what the sexuality of people supposedly "queerbaiting", how do you know they aren't queer themselves. Especially in south korea where people especially idols are most likely never going to be open anout their sexuality.
Being lesbian Kpop fan is extremely weird. Like I'm fetishized but invalidated at the same time. People will fetish wow and mlm ships in Kpop but if a Kpop idol even gives a hint they might not be straight, the fans explode. Like how are you literally going to fetish that and then demonize anyone who identifies that way. And even within the fandoms, there's rampant homophobia and discrimination, as well as double standards. By that I mean as a lesbian who Stans mainly boy groups, I'm constantly invalidated by countless people because they have this perception that I'm not allowed to like anything about men like surface attractiveness or personality. Just because I like boy groups doesn't mean I am attracted to men or any less valid in my lesbian identity. But I RARELY ever see that same type of scrutiny with male gay kpop fans who like mainly girl groups. Literally two sides of the same coin but no one cares if gay guys like girl groups, they don't invalidate them because they joke about certain idols being their "wife", or the fact they sometimes don't even like boy groups. Like the double standard WITHIN the fandom regarding lesbians vs gays is insane and infuriating, and a lot of the time that double standard is perpetuated by others within the lgbtq+ community and it fucking sucks. Like lesbians and trans people are the most discriminated against within their OWN community, especially when it comes to "unconventional" interest fandoms like Kpop, and then it just gets worse once you get outside the fandoms.
Well if the kpop artists were not actually lgbtq then u need to accept that too. Becoz they're artists,.. they entertain with their talent. They do the job to get a salary.. u as the fan..should not over fantasize them too.
@@memyself4362 the way I said absolutely nothing about assuming the artists sexualities in my comment but u went out of your way to make it about that. I specifically said that if “an idol gives a hint that they might not be straight”. And in that quote I was talking about the homophobia within the industry and the fan culture and you turned that around and tried to make it seem like I am the fetishizer. You could’ve just scrolled past my comment. It’s that easy
@@memyself4362 and from your other comments I can see that you’re just a flat out homophobe and act like everyone in South Korea has to be straight just because of the prejudice of the country so don’t even try arguing because i will shut you down.
@celestialsilver2065 I'm mainly a gg stan but I understand what your talking about. strangers on the internet thinking I should only like gg's bc I'm a lesbian 😅 I legit commented in a joking way that Kai had me question my sexuality even tho I'm a lesbian, for his mv mmmh and the comment section torn me apart esp when I responded that if a straight woman can say that about a member from a gg why can't a gay woman say that about a bg member 😢
Watching videos like this from the country where being gay is still illegal's kinda funny. Sad, but funny. Because I see how people being surprise by something I see as normal. Korea is actually a bit more accepting. I'm very used to the thought that I'm probably will be hated my whole life :D Nice to see that there's hope, and people do think that being hateful is stupid
Happy pride month viewers. ❤ this was noce to watch as a pansexual thanks for making this video. I've known about this for a while but never brung it up or seen it be talked about a whole lot. I do hope there is a time idols aren't forced into skinship if they don't want to do it. Hopefully, the idols who are having to hide their sexuality can be more open and not be put out of their group for it.
Also being Christian this makes me sad and almost disappointed in being one because so many Christians who are homophobic or anything else makes Christianity look bad.
Im asexual in a big family who keep pushing me to have kids or be in a relationship...😐😐 i literally came out in 2022 but my family still dont believe im ace... they think i made it up...because I haven't "____it"
I'm so sorry they don't believe you :( I just wanted to let you know you are valid and being ace isn't decided by whether you've done it or not from another ace individual. I hope things get better with your family
There also a group which every member is openly gay called LIONESSES. I also remember a long time ago to make members were openly dating each other and when the company found out they got kicked out. I used to listen to Lady they were very brave for that time. Also the openly gay actor got a lot of hate as well but is doing well now, Hong Seok.
Religion doesn’t really matter but the culture, many Southeast Asian are very accepting of new things and the Philippines is a good example of that 90% of the population is devoted Christian and the majority is Catholic and there the 2nd most LGTBTQ friendly country in Asia and 23rd on the world, and their are many LGBTQ celebrities in the country and are loved by the public despite the country being very religious
What I find strange is the shipping culture and boys wearing makeup, yet LGBTQ is looked down upon and such a stigma. It’s confusing. I’m from Sweden, where same sex people can get married and adopt children. That’s my standard. It’s hard for me to imagine places where being gay or bisexual is such an issue.
as a queer person myself i agree that people can't queerbait but companies with their concepts, marketing, management and direction can and this is the point the video essay was making imo and i agree because it's almost common knowledge that idols get a certain extent of a fake persona which helps protect them but also makes them more appealing and i genuinely think that they also push certain fan service in that regard when they see it working well doesn't mean there can't be any real affection there but the subunit song from rv monster was an example where i really felt the influence of a narrative pushed by a company for profit and it irked me this is just my personal feelings but a lot of these idols show their creative work not through self-made concepts and creative direction or fan service but through singing and dancing and their management is very strict most of the time so the company's influence in these regards could be huge and really blurs the line towards fictional for me regardless if the people themselves are queer or not i think this is a case by case basis and not everything is queerbaiting because sometimes it comes from the idol themselves and sometimes from the company and most of the time the lines between that are so blurry and are kept that way because of safety reasons and rightly so which is why it's a tricky topic
34:11 I didn’t think so either until I saw a clip of an old stray kids vlive where people pointed out that the staff rigged a game they were playing in order to get Han and lee know close to each other.
One thing I want to add or comment is that I think people who write fanfiction are not straight, and writing/shipping is partially putting themselves into character that already exists (either idol that is made into character or actual character of a movie, book etc.) And how I see the shipping in this case problematic is the lack of ability of separating a real person from a character that is loosely based on a real person. If someone seriously ships romantically real people (and and actually believes it + argues "proofs" of it etc.) that is definitely problem. Some cases I see how writing or creating shipping content sometimes is good way to expression, for example situation where person can't write diary or use character too similar their self, using a opposite gender and someone they look up to as a layer to cover. I have seen and read plenty of stuff where someone has expressed their own issues by using artist's or character's face and name.
This video was very nice and informative. Some of these things I already knew or was Aware of, but it's nice to hear Others Speak about these topics to the general public.
It's also important to note that the pepero game and the paper-pass game aren't just stage activities. My fiancé (Korean, born and raised in Seoul) says they're considered party games. We're approaching this topic from a very western direction.
Unfortunately, as with most countries, society moves forward as youth rises and public majority hold a somewhat universal opinion on things. Currently, though, the Korean population is facing a birth rate crisis, with the population being shaped like an upside-down triangle in terms of age demographics, the majority of the population being retirement age instead of children and young adults. Rejecting the progression of society is a very common thing among the elderly, so in this case, unfortunately, to look like a good family, parents would appeal to the opinions of the majority, AKA the elderly.
im wayyy late to this, but when she talked about siwon.... mind you suju were one of the boy groups that used skinship the most to sell among every other group that has ever existed in the history of kpop. they've KISSED on camera, but most of them have shown how homophobic they truly are with siwon as the best example as he's transphobic as well
Why is there so much hatred anyway? Why can't we just live and let live? We're all the same, trying to live our best life and the straight lifestyle shouldn't be considered the only lifestyle. Jesus loved everyone. Could you see Him excluding anyone? I couldn't and so I choose to do the same - accept and love everyone regardless. It's so easy to do and BTS are role models for that acceptance. In that way, I'm proud to be ARMY. 💜
I don't know if it's a thing, but being straight and married 36 years to a man with both feminine and masculine traits, I appreciate such. I do not seek out men kissing men or women kissing women, because it's not my thing. Maybe I'm not a person to speak to that. 🤨 Sorry. I'm no help.
Both the Young & the Old needs the Balance of BOTH. The balance of Old Traditions and The Healthy sides of things, like Values, love family etc., and the New and Improved, Youthful Colorful Vibrations and so forth.
You have no idea how much this subject annoys me a lot like there’s a lot of homophobic fans in kpop and they thing that their favorite groups doesn’t support the lgbt community just because they don’t support them, no matter how much you know your group that doesn’t mean that none of them are supporters or even members of lgbt , and even if that bothers you just shut up and move on just because you don’t support lgbtq+ that doesn’t mean kpop group also don’t support them
that’s why i’m so greatful for Felix of SKZ (a fan asked what it preferred type was and he say “boy or girl cs if boy…”), Ryujun ITZY, Taeyoung NCT, Sana TWICE… well (G)i-dle, SKZ, and ATEEZ as a whole (they aren’t the only ones but the most constantly, visibly accepting to me… i feel the safest in their fan base) i know LK is very big on traditional views and Changbin is very religious and traditional as well so a lot of stuff they do it purely fan service but knowing what they “prefer” and they they would still accept me for being me means the world:
I am in the community and I do agree with many things said but the shipping thing I would say should not get too far it can be romantic but not sexual. Sure I don't mind it in fanfics but if you post a vidoe saying "sexual tension between this and this member" and analyze everything. It is just weird. I am ok with people joking about it. As long as it isn't like dnf iykyk. That ship is crazy. It doesn't have to do with kpop but that is a ship that I have seen being the most disgusting. Sexualized to q point that I almost hate the ship in general. Which is just sad. Because I am a person that appreciates alot of ships. Something like Yutae they are like soulmates and just like best friends that always be with each other and would make sacrifices for each other. I don't wanna offend anyone obviously. Some people just need to realise that not everything that exists in your fantasy will vome true and the same for people that never open up their mind to fantasy.
The whole Woman and shipping two men Thing: sometime it seems more of a well-if-I-cant-have-them-no-girl-can Thing bc If they are with a men there wont be a Future wife/girlfriend in their life
Expropriated means taken away, or ownership revoked. So when property is expropriated, that means that they no longer own their homes, cars, etc, because it's been taken away.
Yeah am bi and christian ,an i love to dig deep, lern a lot bout things such as old times ,bible etc ,and man the things i hear nowdays vs what i lern from history ,man ,also its so simple , whatever its religion or just basic morality ,lile love an respect first ,and this what u said ,that hate makes people so stupid ,oh my ,sooo true ,soo true
The part of "music since" aside from it rhyming, I'm assuming it Could have been meant in a way to be call another dude "Soft" or like a Punk, and Weak or Less than, Not In relation to Actual sexually attracts Same sex pple, but the Behavior, that... Sherm and soft or Weak-like behavior some Males act, STR8 ones Especially included. They're not Exclusive to Queer Name-calling either
Lml Sect. 8 Military??? Maan, as far as most Citizens are concerned, it's for Poor/Lowerclass people that lives in apts Other than NYCHA, this Sect. 8. But this ? This is my First time hearing about it. And is a bit disheartening
Never think for a Second that Nobody in an entire Community of Various walks of life, Poop don't Stink and will not Be Affective to Others around them. Checks and Balances need to be in place of the Self first, then ofc community+Society. So this game called "life" is Decently FAIR for all the Good & decent and Difficult for others that's also good in Merrit and such. Not exclusively: blue and red, but 💜 (no btsPuns atm) No conservatism vs Libertarianism but 4-5D Consciousness and Better with the forever ♾️ addition of "LOVE" is more important: BALANCEs of the Universe. All this black and white stuff is trash 🗑️, causing Us to miss the bigger picture 🖼️. 😞
Child to all the queer homies who's good and wonderful people in real life. Cuz some ars Assholes, nooo different from the Str8 ones and their 3D egotistic mindsets that can't Elevate. So yeah, some are Opps, some are Good fellas, gals and pals, and God Bless everyone. ASHAE ase
7:03 one thing that I dislike about idols doing That hand-to-eye pose {👌👁️} it gives me Illuminati Hollyweird style vibes. And that's Not a Positive thing. Now the "OK" symbol is fine and very well meaningful...but when Put to the eye and Churned like a Clock and fingers🪝curved like a "6".....😑 come on 🫴. To keep their conspiracy theories and such to a minimum, it's best to not indulge in or Participate in certain Symbolic Things and Not really Over standing what certain things mean, Represent and the like. Remember RM and jhope did that one time and it bothered me because it's like, that's not what you guys represent, that is a dark world and they do what they do in Hollywood was a totally different purpose from what K-pop artists and idolz represent.
Now I don’t really know too much about OnlyOneOf but I’m generally quite skeptic all and confused about them. From what I’ve seen, they seem to have very much gone down the marketing route that is queerbaiting. Their mvs, choreography and general behaviour in content and shows very much point towards homosexuality and the members being gay. While I’m pretty sure they’re all supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, I don’t think any of them are actually open about identifying as such which makes me conflicted about how on the one hand, they are promoting homosexuality in a positive light and normalising it in the industry, but on the other hand it seems very sexualised and I’d hate for it to be the case that their company is forcing them to act in this way to attract more fans and make money. As previously mentioned, I know very little about the group so don’t want to cause any offense and will happily be corrected by anyone who does. Another thing relating to Holland is that unfortunately, because he is one of the only LGBTQ+ people in the industry, that has become his label and defining feature. As opposed to his music or talent, he is know as ‘the gay idol’ which of course is good in that he is being open and comfortable about his sexuality and provides positive representation in a severely saturated industry, it also means that he doesn’t really exist outside of him being gay and his sexuality will always pop up in any interview with him or his music. Again this kind of representation is good and people need to have these conversations a lot more but until LGBTQ+ people can exist comfortably undefined by their being as such there is still a long way to go.
I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of OnlyOneof, I follow them a little more casually, but their work has carried themes about underrepresentation and that alternative groups for a while. Their concept is, and always has been, pretty adult and sexy. But when it comes to their portrayal of queer relationships- it largely blew up with libidO, which yes was sexy and drew attention. But the album them was all about sex and attraction basically, and that song is about being attracted to someone, and so the choice to use same sex tension rather than introduce women to keep is straight actually contributes to the them (whilst being cheaper for a smaller group). Equally, they make a lot of their own choreography, so some of the more sensual moves are their choice. When it comes to the solo series, they didn't just make cute gay stories or sexy gay stories, they made very real gay characters. Yoojung's Begin talks about how 'when you are free from prejudice freedom with begin', Beat and BeyOnd show bullying and violence towards queer people, and aside from that you have to take into consideration that they actually couldn't promote those songs easily within Korea because of their themes. Some music shows have explicitly had rules against depictions of homosexuality. They also released the first video in pride month with a dedication to 'all the lovers that couldn't be blessed. Recently in their first tour abroad their audiences had a very large queer component, and they were perfectly happy to hold flags and pose for pictures. They have fun yes, play and flirting with each other a bit, but they also helped a queer couple get engaged at their show, and a couple of members cried and spoke about how special it was. It's understandable to be sceptical, because there is quite a presence of 'playing gay' deliberately to get attention as a sexual/sensual fantasy in some media now. But we also have to be wary that in trying to make sure queer people are respected we don't start overpolicing in a way that makes people paranoid about their behaviour (this happened not too long ago with the Heartstopper actors). For OnlyOneOf, they have fun with their unit pairings yes, and none of them have declared their sexualities, but the fact they are one of the only kpop groups explicitly showing queer concepts, openly accepting gay fans and not showing embarrassment about it, dedicating songs with social and political awareness- even Holland tweeted about their videos saying how much it would have meant to see something like that when he was younger. It really matters. In a way, queerness being included regardless of the artist's stated sexuality, is important. Because it shows it is valid. Now if an artist kept stating they were straight but marketing queer stuff, that could be problematic. But especially in a culture where you can risk your job and family to be openly gay, expressing comfortability with same sex dynamics, queer stories and people helps to promote a culture where queerness isn't so othered. Anyway- I hope that helped explain a little more from my perspective and didn't come off combinative or anything. I totally understand your scepticism if not familiar with the group.
Their company does not force them. They are in charge of their own choreography/concepts/and music. They are also very openly supportive of the lgbt+ community. They even helped an lgbt+ Fan propose a couple of months ago. As someone who is lgbt+..they are a safe place for me and so many queer people. ❤
And in a CONSPIRACY Note, I've heard many many things that has yet to be revealed to the General public of the USA about Some Celebs 40+ that were actually the Opp Sex as what they Portray. I haven't seen an back storoes just Yet, but More is yet to come 🫴 (no BTS Puns included 😅😁)
Anybody else noticed that girlgroups started being more marketed as rolemodels for girls and less the girlfriend type?
Yes! Girl groups are now being targeted at girls instead of men
But who looks at these gg as role models for their lives ... Their songs are all about 'im better than you' songs copy and paste. All the empowerment that I've seen is from lesserafim. Other than them no other gg does that.
These gg have this masquerade of we are empowered but all it is is just them saying oh I'm better than that girl cause I'm skinny / have money / am pretty. Lol. They can't want to promote toxic behaviour and want to be called empowered and empowering. It doesn't work like that. Hope I make sense.
@@PLATO97 my problem with the whole empowerment gg: If the message is written by producers and the concept assigned to them, how exactly is that a rolemodel its still Marketing (regardless of If it actually works)😅
Also you are right almost all of them are the I am better than everybody so I live myself and I am rich....Like
Their labels promote them as the fake empowered girls so that the female audience is attracted to them. But the actual empowerment is never explored further than using empowerment as a theme / aesthetic/ concept. All the actual lyrics of these gg are so shallow. Except from what I've seen from lesserafim. They are the only gg I can say Ok I feel empowered by their music. Eg. Impurities/ good parts / I=doll etc
i am so proud that yeri from redvelvet was one of the few idols that openly supported holland when he was reciving hate and are close friends proud of our maknae
As a bi woman on the queerbaiting issue. I can see where the problem is but we don't know these people's sexualities. They won't tell us and likely will never tell us. I don't think we can necessarily call it queerbaiting if we don't even know if they are queer to begin with. I also think if it's done tastefully to bring awareness (like OnlyOneOf) then it is bringing visibility and more fans who are LGBTQ+ to the fandom/K-Pop fandom. This is just what I feel however and I welcome discussion and differing opinions. Much love to my LGBTQ+ family. Happy Pride Month ❤
I don't doubt that some of these idols are actually gay and they're getting to live the closest thing they can get to living their best gay life because skinship is ok in K-pop. What i don't like is the times when you can tell that the members are uncomfortable and don't want to do it - that's not cool.
🖤💜
@@highheeledfagin Yes I agree. I think forcing it is horrible especially when some idols are more conservative with touch. I myself am someone who is not fond of being touched due to sensory issues so I would feel a lot of pressure to be forced to have skinship if I was an idol.
i'm a lesbian and i agree, i don't think it's ever really appropriate to accuse a real person of queerbaiting. the definition of that word has been twisted and people use it way too loosely now, queerbaiting is something done in FICTIONAL contexts or by CORPORATIONS, not real individuals! saying "you can't act gay (because that's queerbaiting)" is not the progressive take some people think it is.
one example i always think of is the youtubers dan and phil, they were being accused of queerbaiting a lot at one point. they made videos together from 2009-2019 before they both came out as gay. people had been calling them out for queerbaiting when they were literally just...being queer lol
but yeah, idols being made to do skinship and stuff despite being clearly uncomfortable sucks and that's 100% on either the companies or "fans"
@@miroh8 You said everything perfectly! I completely agree and as a Dan and Phil fan I remember that time.
@@HobanProduction while queerbaiting does exist in the industry, most of the time we don't have any way of knowing what is and isn't queerbaiting, two idols could be cuddling up with each other because they genuinely want to, but i've seen some people claim that nearly all skinship is queerbaiting which i think is borderline homophobic. policing same sex affection (between two consenting people) in any context is just iffy to me, that's the issue i take with people using the term queerbaiting so loosely plus the fact that some people blame the idols rather than their companies. it's definitely a complicated issue though
Seventeen is a huge supporter of LGBTQ individuals. Scoups has been photographed wearing a jean jacket with a gay pride flag on the back, Vernon has been photographed many times wearing gay pride clothing the 8 has also been photographed wearing clothing that supports the Trevor Project. Vernon went viral on Twitter for a interview comment he made supporting LGBTQ Community. When Mingyu made Bong Bong the Seventeen mascot he made it gender neutral. Mingyu also has a close friend who is a Trans individual.Vernon stated he loves to push the boundaries between masculinity and feminine and often wears clothing that would be considered feminine. Hoshi also feels their is no line between masculine and femine and that is why he chose to record a song and make the choreography femine using both female and male dancers. I really feel that as South Korea progresses the younger generation will make the LGBTQ community more seen and heard. One thing I can say is South Korea does have Gay Pride events which should they should be credited for. Anyway at the end of the day the best thing is to educate people on the topic and to be open to answering questions they may have. This helps them see a perspective they may not have seen or heard before. You can only hope to open peoples minds but we all know there will always be those who hate for their own ignorant reasons. I choose to welcome everyone. You may have differences in some areas but all in all we are all human and want to be treated with respect.
𝙳𝚘𝚎𝚜 𝚢𝚘𝚞 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚙𝚘𝚛𝚝???
@@refan-6021 Yes I do support since I am a part of the community myself.
@@kpoppapi1493 I respect your opinion but I don’t support
@@refan-6021 what is there not to support? why should a person's identity and choice to love be unsupported? why is someone else's sexual orientation a bother to you?
@@haosaur Because in my personal opinion, we should not change human nature. like if I’m not gay or lesbian why should i support them ???
Bible says not to wear mixed fabrics but you dont see anybody quoting that
also a lot of the homophobic verses people reference are mistranslated e.g. 'man shall not lie with man' was a mistranslation of 'man shall not lie with BOY' which is condemning paedophilia rather than homosexuality
I think people often forgot about Shinee and their relationship with the lgbt community. I think they're one of the few older groups that genuinely care and support the group and the each members. Jonghyun with his social awareness work, Taemin and Key's genderbreaking work in dance and fashion, Minho playing a gay character in a drama, and i forgot but i do know Onew also has supported too. Also abt fanservice i think it's the company that pushes them to feed into the fans fantasies, that's why rps is fickle bc it really should've been between fans ONLY. And one thing fans should keep in mind is SOKOR is super conservative so dont put idols on pedestal
Seb, please listen to Jiae. She's a bisexual idol who suffered a lot of backlash for dating a woman. She debuted solo last year with the mini album LOVE IS LOVE, she's so so talented and underrated, she's also the sweetest person ever.
just reiterating something seb said during this live stream !! (im the dwaaekki account, i popped up a lot in this chat lol) hatred is NOT WELCOME HERE. this is a safe space, we are all supportive, if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist or anything else of that nature you are not welcome here and you will either be banned or end up getting dunked on by everyone else in the comments. dont be a dick, be kind its free.
Me being the mod Jaxon, hate will be blocked and removed immediately 💜
just want to add on to the part about trans kpop idols, there's a newer independent group called QI.X, all of the members are trans/nonbinary. their debut single is called "lights up" if you want to check it out, unfortunately they don't have any MVs or anything probably because they're an independent group and therefore underfunded. but they're talented i think they have a lot of potential!
38:00 I’m queer myself and I don’t necessarily think the fanservice and the queerbating are bad cause many people get pleased by it and it doesn’t hurt anyone. But my problem is that I think the Idols are often very uncomfortable with it cause they get forced to do it even tho sometimes they don’t want to. With groups like for example Mamamoo or even Straykids (But I don’t ship any of them romantically) where you can see their strong relationship with each other and see they’re naturally touchy and stuff I don’t think It’s that uncomfortable. Tho with like IVE and other groups which started of as a business relationship I think they would be uncomfortable with suddenly being that touchy and playing those games when they just started to get better friends and try to get to know each other better. So my opinion is a bit split cause I don’t think it’s bad as long as nobody feels uncomfortable. But I’m just a bit annoyed by the very young straight girls who believe Idols are in a relationship and constantly buying into it because they hug each other.(Sorry for my English It’s not my first language and I hate using translators and stuff so I try to write texts on my own).
I agree ^^ it can be fun when the idols are having fun with it and are close, but if they don’t know each other to that extent and have a business relationship it can be uncomfortable.
Visibility is activism in my opinion 💕
Yeah I believe that groups who you can see are naturally very close and are naturally very touchy/skin ship type of thing like Seventeen, Stray Kids, Mamamoo you can tell that they don’t mean the touchiness in a romantic sort of way just it’s because they’ve been together for a long time and are very comfortable with each other
Agreed
Happy pride month lovelies
OMG GOOD LUCK ❤❤❤❤
@@lennyanyn THANK YOU
@@AcYborg2.0 thank youuuuuu
good luck and happy pride month luv
GOOD LUCK
i think that it's hard to say that a real person is queer-baiting as we don't know their sexuality. for all we know, the idol *is* gay and can't come out for their own safety/ career/ personal relationships/ reputation. the fact that coming out is dangerous for idols makes it make me feel skeptical that they can really queer-bait; we don't know (and probably won't) if they are lgbtq+
Being queer and a massive fan of kpop has always been kinda werid for me? Mainly I guess straight fans getting triggered that there is a chance that one of their idols might be queer, they always say "don't question their sexuality." But the thing is I don't, part of that is also not assuming their straight? I just don't say anything and frankly their sexuality is none of my buisness and its not hard to not assume something private about someone when you're fully aware that you're trying to get hints on someone parasocially?
Another thing I find very uncomfortable about queerbaiting and fan service of that nature is the intended audience... the intended audience is straight teenage girls which goes into the fetishization territory which is just not ok at all. This obviously isn't just in the kpop industry, with the rise of BL drama's in many countries it has gotten a lot bigger like Thailand and America. This isn't me attacking BL fans as I'm one myself, if you watch them for the story and find it interesting than I don't mind it. If you're watching it PURLEY because its 2 guys kissing or... other stuff, that goes into uh not good territory and is very harmful.
This isn't to say that kpop is all doom and gloom for queer fans. I think that more recentley idols are making more remarkes to the lgbtq community in a positive, not fan servicey way. The biggest examples I see of this is Shinee, who are extremely open supporters of the lbgtq community. OnlyOneOf which portray queer stories through their solos, and AleXa who has bluntley stated multiple times that she supports the lgbtq community and especially the trans community.
Thank you for making this video, from a long time lesbian viewer!
^^
the fact that there are most likely many idols who are being made to stay in the closet by their companies honestly makes me feel sick
I’ll personally think queerbaiting is quite funny in the K-pop industry just because I know for the fact that they’re using it for marketing purposes and I know as much as I hate it it’s never going to change but at the end of the day I still watch the ships and I still support.That’s because I’m bored half of the time or even washing dishes but anyways, as much as I hate it, I know it’s never gonna go away. It’s always gonna be a main thing in the industry and so many more things in the world not even just K-pop industry, but in multiple industries, it’s just a marketing thing to earn more money. This is same thing in the BL industry Where they use skinship to profit when they have their fans signs and they tell jokes or even say things like oh we hugged or we kissed it’s just a marketing things to make the fans go wild and love everything and every bit of it so they can just put it onto the Internet, and everybody starts wanting to see more and more and more of that But it’s whatever it might affect others more than me but I still think it’s quite funny.
Yoongi and Jimin are the biggest allies and my biggest inspirations, they never ever miss the opportunity to uplift and support our community in every way possible. They're probably queer too, but we can talk about that once they feel comfortable and safe in that shit country.
Facts. I think Low-key Joon, hoba, tata and jk are both queer too. All of bangtan is definitely allies. It'd be weird if they were not lol. Given that iarchmybacula is on their team.
@@PLATO97 right? all of bts give me ally vibes ofc, especially namjoon cause he's so open about consuming queer media and learning about the history of the lgbtq+ community
and i didn't wanna say this cause i was a lil bit scared at first but statistically, there could be one or more queer person(s) within the group and it wouldn't be surprising at all.
@taed4372 since we're talking about it, I'm 100% sure yoongi is bisexual. Thus man has said his tongue will make men and women have an orgasm and said in an interview that his attraction isn't exclusive to women like... BISEXUAL KING WBK
@@lennyanyn FR!!!
@@lennyanyn Honestly, since nobody knows BTS members' sexuality, quit saying you're 100% sure, because you can't be sure, and what you think Yoongi said, he didn't say. I choose to be open about the subject and accept and love everyone, but I don't assume the members' preference, and if I did I'd say they're all straight or bi. I don't know so I'm doing exactly what you and others are doing - presuming. Who the hell cares anyway? They all support all races, genders and sexualities so that should be enough.
I agree with many of the comments that queer people can’t queerbait. I also think we should give idols grace of leniency just BECAUSE they can’t safely come out. I know the statistic of queer people have been brought up before, how 1 in every 5 people are queer, so in every group with 5+ people at least one of them will be queer. However, kpop is basically Korea’s theater scene. And if it’s one thing theatre kids are known for, it being queer. So the 1 in 5 number is probably a lot higher.
As for the shipping part.. *sigh* the most basic take yet again. I’ve been in fandom and shipping for 13-ish years now? My first ship was actually rpf, then I stepped away from rpf for 8-ish years because it made me uncomfortable. Now I’m back in it 🤷🏼♀️ It was still VERY EASY to not demonise rpf, or start witch hunts against shippers, who in my broad experience, are also overwhelmingly queer.
Fandom in large have forgotten the golden rule of ”Don’t like? Don’t read.” or rather, ”Don’t like? Don’t engage.” The X button exists for a reason. Block people. Curate your timeline. Shippers have existed since the 60/70s (with star trek) and no matter how many death threats or ”kill yourself” messages they recieve, shippers are still gonna exist.
Now, I do firmly believe that shipping should be KEPT AWAY from the idols. At any cost!! AO3 and censored twitter communities exist for a reason. ”Proof”-videos and etc that’s being shared on tiktok makes me cringe too, that’s the wrong platform. Keep it contained.
However, the anti-shipping people also have a huge problem. They are DRIPPING with homophobia. Just the other day I saw someone say it was better to be ”a [straight] delulu than a shipper”. I’ve seen women post ”[male members] position is missionary in bed with me 😊” under OFFICIAL ACCOUNT TWEETS. I’ve seen people TAGGING the official accounts in their straight sexual fantasies. And yet if shippers point at two same sex members and say they hold hands and kiss on the lips, they’re the disgusting ones.
It’s always ”don’t assume their sexuality” (i agree with op there) but it’s always only applicable to queer sexualities.
Sebastine: as for your question why people ship, there’s been many theories over the years, but the one that resonate with me the most is the idea that gay men in a relationship are completely equal. There is no patriarchy, as you mentioned. It’s less fetishising gay men because two men kissing are hot (again, the vast majority of fandom creators I’ve met are queer), but rather an escape to a reality where the reader is also on the societal top. A world where we don’t have to be women. I’m also ace so bodies and especially sex can at times be very icky for me, and reading about bodies that’s opposite from mine (i’m a woman) can help with the disconnect, the ”its not real” factor. Hope that made sense.
Oh Good they let you put it up! This stream was so wonderful. Deep, and wonderful. 💙
If you haven’t seen MASH the tv series from the 70-80’s there’s a character who cross dresses in order to be discharged. The series is set in a front line medical unit during the Korean War. I highly recommend it if you haven’t already seen it.
The k pop industry is so weird. It’s like looking at a different world. Just let people be people and artist be artists. And stop forcing the artist to do skin ship and fan service…you will never be rid of shippers while the industry encourages it.
It really depends on the group. Some openly encourage ships. No matter what, ultimately is up to us not to take them too far.
Actually kpop artists r not into the same gender lover, even the Korean community before they forbid it.. if u ask the auntie the father or the mother of the artist they will immediately be disqualified to their son or daughter. It is harsh?. Yes it is. Just because kpop desperately wants to be the top world artist they suddenly accept anything that is offering to them. They are trying to expand the economy becoz kpop is the biggest fundamental to the Korean economy. So that is why, lgbtq community who are desperately asking to normalize their agenda found the solution by supporting kpop massively.
U can see people like taylor Swift, camella csbello, Billie ish support this community then they suddenly burst up to the top..
But when Lgbtq reaches kpop they discover that kpop is huge in Asia, so that is why if the artists were not supporting this community then the group will hardly succeed even though they're superbly talented the other already famous group.
😅😅
Now.. being kpop u don't need talent. U just need to support LGBTQ then the world will accept u too. 😂😂😂😅
Queerbaiting is a dividing topic, but I personally think you can't queerbait is you don't know what the sexuality of people supposedly "queerbaiting", how do you know they aren't queer themselves. Especially in south korea where people especially idols are most likely never going to be open anout their sexuality.
I agree, and this topic is super complicated in asian countries, esp them being entertainers
Seb i cant thank you enough for making this video it means the world to me
Love your videos
Being lesbian Kpop fan is extremely weird. Like I'm fetishized but invalidated at the same time. People will fetish wow and mlm ships in Kpop but if a Kpop idol even gives a hint they might not be straight, the fans explode. Like how are you literally going to fetish that and then demonize anyone who identifies that way. And even within the fandoms, there's rampant homophobia and discrimination, as well as double standards. By that I mean as a lesbian who Stans mainly boy groups, I'm constantly invalidated by countless people because they have this perception that I'm not allowed to like anything about men like surface attractiveness or personality. Just because I like boy groups doesn't mean I am attracted to men or any less valid in my lesbian identity. But I RARELY ever see that same type of scrutiny with male gay kpop fans who like mainly girl groups. Literally two sides of the same coin but no one cares if gay guys like girl groups, they don't invalidate them because they joke about certain idols being their "wife", or the fact they sometimes don't even like boy groups. Like the double standard WITHIN the fandom regarding lesbians vs gays is insane and infuriating, and a lot of the time that double standard is perpetuated by others within the lgbtq+ community and it fucking sucks. Like lesbians and trans people are the most discriminated against within their OWN community, especially when it comes to "unconventional" interest fandoms like Kpop, and then it just gets worse once you get outside the fandoms.
Well if the kpop artists were not actually lgbtq then u need to accept that too. Becoz they're artists,.. they entertain with their talent. They do the job to get a salary.. u as the fan..should not over fantasize them too.
@@memyself4362 the way I said absolutely nothing about assuming the artists sexualities in my comment but u went out of your way to make it about that. I specifically said that if “an idol gives a hint that they might not be straight”. And in that quote I was talking about the homophobia within the industry and the fan culture and you turned that around and tried to make it seem like I am the fetishizer. You could’ve just scrolled past my comment. It’s that easy
@@memyself4362 and from your other comments I can see that you’re just a flat out homophobe and act like everyone in South Korea has to be straight just because of the prejudice of the country so don’t even try arguing because i will shut you down.
this comment is literally my thoughts... i have found my people
@celestialsilver2065 I'm mainly a gg stan but I understand what your talking about.
strangers on the internet thinking I should only like gg's bc I'm a lesbian 😅
I legit commented in a joking way that Kai had me question my sexuality even tho I'm a lesbian, for his mv mmmh and the comment section torn me apart esp when I responded that if a straight woman can say that about a member from a gg why can't a gay woman say that about a bg member 😢
Watching videos like this from the country where being gay is still illegal's kinda funny. Sad, but funny. Because I see how people being surprise by something I see as normal. Korea is actually a bit more accepting. I'm very used to the thought that I'm probably will be hated my whole life :D Nice to see that there's hope, and people do think that being hateful is stupid
I'm sorry to read that you have to live in a place where your identity (at least part of it) is not accepted.
I hope things get better for you
Happy pride month viewers. ❤ this was noce to watch as a pansexual thanks for making this video. I've known about this for a while but never brung it up or seen it be talked about a whole lot. I do hope there is a time idols aren't forced into skinship if they don't want to do it. Hopefully, the idols who are having to hide their sexuality can be more open and not be put out of their group for it.
Also being Christian this makes me sad and almost disappointed in being one because so many Christians who are homophobic or anything else makes Christianity look bad.
Im asexual in a big family who keep pushing me to have kids or be in a relationship...😐😐 i literally came out in 2022 but my family still dont believe im ace... they think i made it up...because I haven't "____it"
💜
I'm so sorry they don't believe you :( I just wanted to let you know you are valid and being ace isn't decided by whether you've done it or not from another ace individual. I hope things get better with your family
@@Bunniedoll thank yu for saying that..
There also a group which every member is openly gay called LIONESSES. I also remember a long time ago to make members were openly dating each other and when the company found out they got kicked out. I used to listen to Lady they were very brave for that time. Also the openly gay actor got a lot of hate as well but is doing well now, Hong Seok.
Religion doesn’t really matter but the culture, many Southeast Asian are very accepting of new things and the Philippines is a good example of that 90% of the population is devoted Christian and the majority is Catholic and there the 2nd most LGTBTQ friendly country in Asia and 23rd on the world, and their are many LGBTQ celebrities in the country and are loved by the public despite the country being very religious
Ok keep in ur country alone or with other but not my country another side of southeast Asia.
What I find strange is the shipping culture and boys wearing makeup, yet LGBTQ is looked down upon and such a stigma. It’s confusing.
I’m from Sweden, where same sex people can get married and adopt children. That’s my standard. It’s hard for me to imagine places where being gay or bisexual is such an issue.
finally got sponsored 🤣
as a queer person myself i agree that people can't queerbait but companies with their concepts, marketing, management and direction can and this is the point the video essay was making imo and i agree because it's almost common knowledge that idols get a certain extent of a fake persona which helps protect them but also makes them more appealing and i genuinely think that they also push certain fan service in that regard when they see it working well doesn't mean there can't be any real affection there but the subunit song from rv monster was an example where i really felt the influence of a narrative pushed by a company for profit and it irked me this is just my personal feelings but a lot of these idols show their creative work not through self-made concepts and creative direction or fan service but through singing and dancing and their management is very strict most of the time so the company's influence in these regards could be huge and really blurs the line towards fictional for me regardless if the people themselves are queer or not i think this is a case by case basis and not everything is queerbaiting because sometimes it comes from the idol themselves and sometimes from the company and most of the time the lines between that are so blurry and are kept that way because of safety reasons and rightly so which is why it's a tricky topic
34:11 I didn’t think so either until I saw a clip of an old stray kids vlive where people pointed out that the staff rigged a game they were playing in order to get Han and lee know close to each other.
One thing I want to add or comment is that I think people who write fanfiction are not straight, and writing/shipping is partially putting themselves into character that already exists (either idol that is made into character or actual character of a movie, book etc.) And how I see the shipping in this case problematic is the lack of ability of separating a real person from a character that is loosely based on a real person. If someone seriously ships romantically real people (and and actually believes it + argues "proofs" of it etc.) that is definitely problem. Some cases I see how writing or creating shipping content sometimes is good way to expression, for example situation where person can't write diary or use character too similar their self, using a opposite gender and someone they look up to as a layer to cover. I have seen and read plenty of stuff where someone has expressed their own issues by using artist's or character's face and name.
This video was very nice and informative. Some of these things I already knew or was Aware of, but it's nice to hear Others Speak about these topics to the general public.
It's also important to note that the pepero game and the paper-pass game aren't just stage activities. My fiancé (Korean, born and raised in Seoul) says they're considered party games. We're approaching this topic from a very western direction.
Unfortunately, as with most countries, society moves forward as youth rises and public majority hold a somewhat universal opinion on things. Currently, though, the Korean population is facing a birth rate crisis, with the population being shaped like an upside-down triangle in terms of age demographics, the majority of the population being retirement age instead of children and young adults. Rejecting the progression of society is a very common thing among the elderly, so in this case, unfortunately, to look like a good family, parents would appeal to the opinions of the majority, AKA the elderly.
im wayyy late to this, but when she talked about siwon.... mind you suju were one of the boy groups that used skinship the most to sell among every other group that has ever existed in the history of kpop. they've KISSED on camera, but most of them have shown how homophobic they truly are with siwon as the best example as he's transphobic as well
Why is there so much hatred anyway? Why can't we just live and let live? We're all the same, trying to live our best life and the straight lifestyle shouldn't be considered the only lifestyle. Jesus loved everyone. Could you see Him excluding anyone? I couldn't and so I choose to do the same - accept and love everyone regardless. It's so easy to do and BTS are role models for that acceptance. In that way, I'm proud to be ARMY. 💜
Queerbaiting is like using our existing as a joke or seeing it a something that can be profitable NOT accepting our existence
10:10 "Dorothyyy!! 😄
not even two seconds later:
*AHH!?!?* 😟
I honestly got emotional during just the beginning, I feel like a baby 😂
It feels weird to be this early... Btw ur so funny ❤ 2nd comment
I don't know if it's a thing, but being straight and married 36 years to a man with both feminine and masculine traits, I appreciate such. I do not seek out men kissing men or women kissing women, because it's not my thing. Maybe I'm not a person to speak to that. 🤨 Sorry. I'm no help.
Jasonremy8688 is an example of homophob people😢
Hopefully blocked by now
Thanks for watching this video seb!
Both the Young & the Old needs the Balance of BOTH. The balance of Old Traditions and The Healthy sides of things, like Values, love family etc., and the New and Improved, Youthful Colorful Vibrations and so forth.
You have no idea how much this subject annoys me a lot like there’s a lot of homophobic fans in kpop and they thing that their favorite groups doesn’t support the lgbt community just because they don’t support them, no matter how much you know your group that doesn’t mean that none of them are supporters or even members of lgbt , and even if that bothers you just shut up and move on just because you don’t support lgbtq+ that doesn’t mean kpop group also don’t support them
that’s why i’m so greatful for Felix of SKZ (a fan asked what it preferred type was and he say “boy or girl cs if boy…”), Ryujun ITZY, Taeyoung NCT, Sana TWICE… well (G)i-dle, SKZ, and ATEEZ as a whole (they aren’t the only ones but the most constantly, visibly accepting to me… i feel the safest in their fan base)
i know LK is very big on traditional views and Changbin is very religious and traditional as well so a lot of stuff they do it purely fan service but knowing what they “prefer” and they they would still accept me for being me means the world:
I am in the community and I do agree with many things said but the shipping thing I would say should not get too far it can be romantic but not sexual. Sure I don't mind it in fanfics but if you post a vidoe saying "sexual tension between this and this member" and analyze everything. It is just weird. I am ok with people joking about it. As long as it isn't like dnf iykyk. That ship is crazy. It doesn't have to do with kpop but that is a ship that I have seen being the most disgusting. Sexualized to q point that I almost hate the ship in general. Which is just sad. Because I am a person that appreciates alot of ships. Something like Yutae they are like soulmates and just like best friends that always be with each other and would make sacrifices for each other.
I don't wanna offend anyone obviously. Some people just need to realise that not everything that exists in your fantasy will vome true and the same for people that never open up their mind to fantasy.
3:45 - No religion (56,1%)
The whole Woman and shipping two men Thing: sometime it seems more of a well-if-I-cant-have-them-no-girl-can Thing bc If they are with a men there wont be a Future wife/girlfriend in their life
Korea still holds very conservative values. In fact most of asia actually still holds alot of conservative values
Expropriated means taken away, or ownership revoked. So when property is expropriated, that means that they no longer own their homes, cars, etc, because it's been taken away.
Who's the original video RUclipsr?
Yeah am bi and christian ,an i love to dig deep, lern a lot bout things such as old times ,bible etc ,and man the things i hear nowdays vs what i lern from history ,man ,also its so simple , whatever its religion or just basic morality ,lile love an respect first ,and this what u said ,that hate makes people so stupid ,oh my ,sooo true ,soo true
The part of "music since" aside from it rhyming, I'm assuming it Could have been meant in a way to be call another dude "Soft" or like a Punk, and Weak or Less than, Not In relation to Actual sexually attracts Same sex pple, but the Behavior, that... Sherm and soft or Weak-like behavior some Males act, STR8 ones Especially included. They're not Exclusive to Queer Name-calling either
❤❤❤
Lml Sect. 8 Military??? Maan, as far as most Citizens are concerned, it's for Poor/Lowerclass people that lives in apts Other than NYCHA, this Sect. 8. But this ? This is my First time hearing about it. And is a bit disheartening
Never think for a Second that Nobody in an entire Community of Various walks of life, Poop don't Stink and will not Be Affective to Others around them.
Checks and Balances need to be in place of the Self first, then ofc community+Society. So this game called "life" is Decently FAIR for all the Good & decent and Difficult for others that's also good in Merrit and such.
Not exclusively:
blue and red, but 💜 (no btsPuns atm)
No conservatism vs Libertarianism but 4-5D Consciousness and Better with the forever ♾️ addition of "LOVE" is more important: BALANCEs of the Universe. All this black and white stuff is trash 🗑️, causing Us to miss the bigger picture 🖼️. 😞
Child to all the queer homies who's good and wonderful people in real life. Cuz some ars Assholes, nooo different from the Str8 ones and their 3D egotistic mindsets that can't Elevate. So yeah, some are Opps, some are Good fellas, gals and pals, and God Bless everyone. ASHAE ase
41:50 it’s a fetish.
Hi
Wait are u not gay?
No he’s not
7:03 one thing that I dislike about idols doing That hand-to-eye pose {👌👁️} it gives me Illuminati Hollyweird style vibes. And that's Not a Positive thing.
Now the "OK" symbol is fine and very well meaningful...but when Put to the eye and Churned like a Clock and fingers🪝curved like a "6".....😑 come on 🫴.
To keep their conspiracy theories and such to a minimum, it's best to not indulge in or Participate in certain Symbolic Things and Not really Over standing what certain things mean, Represent and the like.
Remember RM and jhope did that one time and it bothered me because it's like, that's not what you guys represent, that is a dark world and they do what they do in Hollywood was a totally different purpose from what K-pop artists and idolz represent.
Its intentional, since the music video concept is a weird cults vibe, the red crown and red dress, the hip move, etc
Abc
Now I don’t really know too much about OnlyOneOf but I’m generally quite skeptic all and confused about them. From what I’ve seen, they seem to have very much gone down the marketing route that is queerbaiting. Their mvs, choreography and general behaviour in content and shows very much point towards homosexuality and the members being gay. While I’m pretty sure they’re all supportive of the LGBTQ+ community, I don’t think any of them are actually open about identifying as such which makes me conflicted about how on the one hand, they are promoting homosexuality in a positive light and normalising it in the industry, but on the other hand it seems very sexualised and I’d hate for it to be the case that their company is forcing them to act in this way to attract more fans and make money. As previously mentioned, I know very little about the group so don’t want to cause any offense and will happily be corrected by anyone who does.
Another thing relating to Holland is that unfortunately, because he is one of the only LGBTQ+ people in the industry, that has become his label and defining feature. As opposed to his music or talent, he is know as ‘the gay idol’ which of course is good in that he is being open and comfortable about his sexuality and provides positive representation in a severely saturated industry, it also means that he doesn’t really exist outside of him being gay and his sexuality will always pop up in any interview with him or his music. Again this kind of representation is good and people need to have these conversations a lot more but until LGBTQ+ people can exist comfortably undefined by their being as such there is still a long way to go.
I don't have an encyclopaedic knowledge of OnlyOneof, I follow them a little more casually, but their work has carried themes about underrepresentation and that alternative groups for a while. Their concept is, and always has been, pretty adult and sexy. But when it comes to their portrayal of queer relationships- it largely blew up with libidO, which yes was sexy and drew attention. But the album them was all about sex and attraction basically, and that song is about being attracted to someone, and so the choice to use same sex tension rather than introduce women to keep is straight actually contributes to the them (whilst being cheaper for a smaller group). Equally, they make a lot of their own choreography, so some of the more sensual moves are their choice.
When it comes to the solo series, they didn't just make cute gay stories or sexy gay stories, they made very real gay characters. Yoojung's Begin talks about how 'when you are free from prejudice freedom with begin', Beat and BeyOnd show bullying and violence towards queer people, and aside from that you have to take into consideration that they actually couldn't promote those songs easily within Korea because of their themes. Some music shows have explicitly had rules against depictions of homosexuality. They also released the first video in pride month with a dedication to 'all the lovers that couldn't be blessed. Recently in their first tour abroad their audiences had a very large queer component, and they were perfectly happy to hold flags and pose for pictures. They have fun yes, play and flirting with each other a bit, but they also helped a queer couple get engaged at their show, and a couple of members cried and spoke about how special it was.
It's understandable to be sceptical, because there is quite a presence of 'playing gay' deliberately to get attention as a sexual/sensual fantasy in some media now. But we also have to be wary that in trying to make sure queer people are respected we don't start overpolicing in a way that makes people paranoid about their behaviour (this happened not too long ago with the Heartstopper actors). For OnlyOneOf, they have fun with their unit pairings yes, and none of them have declared their sexualities, but the fact they are one of the only kpop groups explicitly showing queer concepts, openly accepting gay fans and not showing embarrassment about it, dedicating songs with social and political awareness- even Holland tweeted about their videos saying how much it would have meant to see something like that when he was younger. It really matters.
In a way, queerness being included regardless of the artist's stated sexuality, is important. Because it shows it is valid. Now if an artist kept stating they were straight but marketing queer stuff, that could be problematic. But especially in a culture where you can risk your job and family to be openly gay, expressing comfortability with same sex dynamics, queer stories and people helps to promote a culture where queerness isn't so othered. Anyway- I hope that helped explain a little more from my perspective and didn't come off combinative or anything. I totally understand your scepticism if not familiar with the group.
Their company does not force them. They are in charge of their own choreography/concepts/and music. They are also very openly supportive of the lgbt+ community. They even helped an lgbt+ Fan propose a couple of months ago. As someone who is lgbt+..they are a safe place for me and so many queer people. ❤
And in a CONSPIRACY Note, I've heard many many things that has yet to be revealed to the General public of the USA about Some Celebs 40+ that were actually the Opp Sex as what they Portray. I haven't seen an back storoes just Yet, but More is yet to come 🫴 (no BTS Puns included 😅😁)