Honestly, i feel like much of the issues brought up in this video about Lena, white saviorism, and a lack of both punishments for Lena as well as a lack of other Alba wanting to help the 86 are all answered and resolved in the Second season. Even just watching the 1st ep of Season 2 would have cut down on the issues you all seemed to bring up! Here's hoping you all review the 2nd Season.
86 is one of those shows that I am sad that more people do not fully appreciate what it is trying to do. If you had to sum up the theme of 86 most people would latch on to the racism. When I was first watching it and I got to episodes 3 and 4. I remember describing it as White armchair activist from the suburbs learns she is the problem. I had not seen the whole show and could not fully form my ideas. A lot of the knocks I hear on the show are about how this is not shown or that is not explored more. Insert what you want, the problem is whatever you put there that is not what the show was about. 86 is about having ideals. It is about a character being presented with the fact that her ideals were fake. Being told by everyone, even the people she wanted to help, that she should give up on her ideals. She makes the choice, Not to be a coward anymore, to take a step forward. It does not matter that she was wrong in the past, that she was naive. Those people that truly inspire us are those that make mistakes, that falter, that come close to giving up but find the way to keep going. If you really want to know what 86 is about I would like to suggest a blog written by Kok Xiang Wei. English is not his native language so some parts are a little oddly worded but he still gets his point across. The title is When do ideals become more than empty words? In this Post he compares and contrasts the ideals of the Alba and the Ideals of the 86. Then what Lena has to do to make her ideals become more than empty words. To me this is the theme and point of the show. Watching it under that lens makes everything the show-runners do and every choice they made, make perfect sense. Not sure your rules on sharing links if it is an issue sorry. zxcaderu.blogspot.com/2021/05/86-when-do-ideals-become-more-than.html
86 is really good except one nitpick which are probably just my fault: I really don't remember any of the side characters. The only two characters I remember are Lena and Shin and the others i somewhat remember but not their backstories or what they did Season 2 does address a lot of the questions. The racism and segregation part is explored a lot more deeply in the light novels i feel, but not everythings perfect tbh. Not to spoil but the ending is good, so watch till the end and you'll be rewarded
Your comment about the side characters I feel the same cause in Part 1 I dont think other than those 2 really made a stamp on the story to make me care about them down the road. Part 2 I agree answers some of my issues with Part 1 and I did end up enjoying more. We shall see if it wins the voting the future where we can discuss it
I personally think 86 is kinda unapologetically awful. It's shallow, ham fisted, and baffling on many accounts. it falls very firmly into that groan worthy "I don't like mecha but..." pile that (mostly) contains a bunch of shows where the things people point out liking about them over other mecha is crap other mecha has done better hands down over the years. I honestly think the only reason this show is so liked is because people imprint themselves onto lena so hard or because the message of "racism bad" is universally a good thing. I don't care about your floundering cartoonish anti-racism themes that literally requires the explanation of "well, the 86 are actually just incredibly noble so they stay and fight anyways." also, what the hell is the deal with shourei? he has one moment where he's comically awful and unreasonable where he chokes his kid brother as hard as he can because their parents died like a psycho and then is treated by the story like he is a "tragic and misunderstood guy who truly loved his brother in spite of this one moment that we are going bend over backwards to now make look like it was literally written out of character with no rhyme reason or thematic purpose other than to give our protagonist a cool scar." I also think the characters are pretty under written in general, but i don't hold that as much against the show since it's a brisk 11 episodes, however i do have a source that tells me the novels don't fair much better. I think cat has some pretty good points about lena, but i don't actually think that's the read the source material has, after all lena isn't shown to be insensitive and attached to her own selfish image of herself as a humanitarian, she's just called out for being slightly ignorant and accidently insensitive, then pretty immediately and perfectly bounces back and rectifies it. she doesn't actually change meaningfully or open her eyes more, we are just told that she's a good person and when she finds out she can do more she immediately does it like a perfect angel, she was already capable of these things and just needed to know to do it; after all hanlon's razor dictates "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." by making her ignorant the text sets out to absolve her of guilt in her insensitivity and offense, then redoubles in it's assertion that she is just innately good. 100% agree with cat about how unreasonable the depiction of the oppression is, they fail to establish the rest of the country as reasonable people scared of the repercussion of speaking up, most of the establishment we get is other brainwashed dirtbags who think everything is fine and are having a grand time. the reaction to lena speaking up is "wait, but aren't you incorrect?" and not shocked and concerned gasps of "we know it's true, but are afraid to speak up ourselves." the problem isn't not seeing people also speak up, the problem is not seeing people AFRAID to speak up at the very least. ever. we are just shown citizens who are on board with everything, and lena. lena being young is not an excuse for mistakes, if it was, then she shouldn't have the job of being a major in the first place. you can't have your cake and eat it too where "she's so capable she became the youngest major ever" but also "yeah, i guess she makes mistakes, she's young." lena "learning from the oppressed 86" doesn't mean more because she doesn't learn anything meaningful, she already innately believes that dehumanizing people and sending them to die is bad, she already believes the 86 are people, it's not like how in FMA edward admits to being uneasy when meeting an ishvalin, he has an amount of prejudice due to events, propoganda, his culture, and his personal experience with scar. however, edward is a level headed and good person so he doesn't hold himself to a gut reaction like that and does eventually learn of the truth behind the events of the ishvalin war and the plight of the people. things he thinks were facts do get challenged, and he accepts the truth when it's brought to life. despite the ishvallins being such a small piece of the massive whole that is fma they are handled with more nuance and tact than any part of 86. i think shin an mika are a bad comparison for a different reason. shin is a (albeit poorly written and handled) character, while mika is i display of themes. mika has some minor characterization, and people seem to hate him because he really doesn't get a lot, but i feel the miss the point: he's not supposed to be a driving character, he's a person who has been effectively de-personed by his circumstances and evnironment, the little bit of character we do see (him caring about his writing lessons, his interest in doing farm living) is to enhance the tragedy that by the end of the show even his closest friend is willing to wield him as the weapon he's been forged into for ambition, and mika being who he is due to everything is content in doing so. i think peter is pretty correct with the tonal disconnect. I kinda lost my way and got rambly, sorry.| I honestly came into the show expecting it to be mid at worst and now think it's worse than like, every off gundam season sunrise mecha i've seen (which includes crap like valverave) there were a few things that i did like, but enough people like 86 that i don't even feel like i need to throw it any bones, second season is somehow worse though.
Agree and disagree in some spots but you wrote a lot so I wont touch on everything. I dont think the show does anything better than anything else, but also doesnt do anything I think is necessarily bad. I am very middle of the road on the show and just lump it in the "fine" category
Honestly, i feel like much of the issues brought up in this video about Lena, white saviorism, and a lack of both punishments for Lena as well as a lack of other Alba wanting to help the 86 are all answered and resolved in the Second season.
Even just watching the 1st ep of Season 2 would have cut down on the issues you all seemed to bring up!
Here's hoping you all review the 2nd Season.
86 is one of those shows
86 is one of those shows that I am sad that more people do not fully appreciate what it is trying to do. If you had to sum up the theme of 86 most people would latch on to the racism. When I was first watching it and I got to episodes 3 and 4. I remember describing it as White armchair activist from the suburbs learns she is the problem. I had not seen the whole show and could not fully form my ideas.
A lot of the knocks I hear on the show are about how this is not shown or that is not explored more. Insert what you want, the problem is whatever you put there that is not what the show was about. 86 is about having ideals. It is about a character being presented with the fact that her ideals were fake. Being told by everyone, even the people she wanted to help, that she should give up on her ideals. She makes the choice, Not to be a coward anymore, to take a step forward. It does not matter that she was wrong in the past, that she was naive. Those people that truly inspire us are those that make mistakes, that falter, that come close to giving up but find the way to keep going.
If you really want to know what 86 is about I would like to suggest a blog written by Kok Xiang Wei. English is not his native language so some parts are a little oddly worded but he still gets his point across. The title is When do ideals become more than empty words?
In this Post he compares and contrasts the ideals of the Alba and the Ideals of the 86. Then what Lena has to do to make her ideals become more than empty words. To me this is the theme and point of the show. Watching it under that lens makes everything the show-runners do and every choice they made, make perfect sense.
Not sure your rules on sharing links if it is an issue sorry.
zxcaderu.blogspot.com/2021/05/86-when-do-ideals-become-more-than.html
86 is really good except one nitpick which are probably just my fault:
I really don't remember any of the side characters. The only two characters I remember are Lena and Shin and the others i somewhat remember but not their backstories or what they did
Season 2 does address a lot of the questions. The racism and segregation part is explored a lot more deeply in the light novels i feel, but not everythings perfect tbh.
Not to spoil but the ending is good, so watch till the end and you'll be rewarded
Your comment about the side characters I feel the same cause in Part 1 I dont think other than those 2 really made a stamp on the story to make me care about them down the road. Part 2 I agree answers some of my issues with Part 1 and I did end up enjoying more. We shall see if it wins the voting the future where we can discuss it
I personally think 86 is kinda unapologetically awful. It's shallow, ham fisted, and baffling on many accounts. it falls very firmly into that groan worthy "I don't like mecha but..." pile that (mostly) contains a bunch of shows where the things people point out liking about them over other mecha is crap other mecha has done better hands down over the years. I honestly think the only reason this show is so liked is because people imprint themselves onto lena so hard or because the message of "racism bad" is universally a good thing. I don't care about your floundering cartoonish anti-racism themes that literally requires the explanation of "well, the 86 are actually just incredibly noble so they stay and fight anyways." also, what the hell is the deal with shourei? he has one moment where he's comically awful and unreasonable where he chokes his kid brother as hard as he can because their parents died like a psycho and then is treated by the story like he is a "tragic and misunderstood guy who truly loved his brother in spite of this one moment that we are going bend over backwards to now make look like it was literally written out of character with no rhyme reason or thematic purpose other than to give our protagonist a cool scar." I also think the characters are pretty under written in general, but i don't hold that as much against the show since it's a brisk 11 episodes, however i do have a source that tells me the novels don't fair much better. I think cat has some pretty good points about lena, but i don't actually think that's the read the source material has, after all lena isn't shown to be insensitive and attached to her own selfish image of herself as a humanitarian, she's just called out for being slightly ignorant and accidently insensitive, then pretty immediately and perfectly bounces back and rectifies it. she doesn't actually change meaningfully or open her eyes more, we are just told that she's a good person and when she finds out she can do more she immediately does it like a perfect angel, she was already capable of these things and just needed to know to do it; after all hanlon's razor dictates "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." by making her ignorant the text sets out to absolve her of guilt in her insensitivity and offense, then redoubles in it's assertion that she is just innately good. 100% agree with cat about how unreasonable the depiction of the oppression is, they fail to establish the rest of the country as reasonable people scared of the repercussion of speaking up, most of the establishment we get is other brainwashed dirtbags who think everything is fine and are having a grand time. the reaction to lena speaking up is "wait, but aren't you incorrect?" and not shocked and concerned gasps of "we know it's true, but are afraid to speak up ourselves." the problem isn't not seeing people also speak up, the problem is not seeing people AFRAID to speak up at the very least. ever. we are just shown citizens who are on board with everything, and lena. lena being young is not an excuse for mistakes, if it was, then she shouldn't have the job of being a major in the first place. you can't have your cake and eat it too where "she's so capable she became the youngest major ever" but also "yeah, i guess she makes mistakes, she's young." lena "learning from the oppressed 86" doesn't mean more because she doesn't learn anything meaningful, she already innately believes that dehumanizing people and sending them to die is bad, she already believes the 86 are people, it's not like how in FMA edward admits to being uneasy when meeting an ishvalin, he has an amount of prejudice due to events, propoganda, his culture, and his personal experience with scar. however, edward is a level headed and good person so he doesn't hold himself to a gut reaction like that and does eventually learn of the truth behind the events of the ishvalin war and the plight of the people. things he thinks were facts do get challenged, and he accepts the truth when it's brought to life. despite the ishvallins being such a small piece of the massive whole that is fma they are handled with more nuance and tact than any part of 86. i think shin an mika are a bad comparison for a different reason. shin is a (albeit poorly written and handled) character, while mika is i display of themes. mika has some minor characterization, and people seem to hate him because he really doesn't get a lot, but i feel the miss the point: he's not supposed to be a driving character, he's a person who has been effectively de-personed by his circumstances and evnironment, the little bit of character we do see (him caring about his writing lessons, his interest in doing farm living) is to enhance the tragedy that by the end of the show even his closest friend is willing to wield him as the weapon he's been forged into for ambition, and mika being who he is due to everything is content in doing so. i think peter is pretty correct with the tonal disconnect. I kinda lost my way and got rambly, sorry.|
I honestly came into the show expecting it to be mid at worst and now think it's worse than like, every off gundam season sunrise mecha i've seen (which includes crap like valverave) there were a few things that i did like, but enough people like 86 that i don't even feel like i need to throw it any bones, second season is somehow worse though.
Agree and disagree in some spots but you wrote a lot so I wont touch on everything. I dont think the show does anything better than anything else, but also doesnt do anything I think is necessarily bad. I am very middle of the road on the show and just lump it in the "fine" category