Adding the victims rig back in makes a huge difference. Love your videos. They definitely helped me get through my Sprat level 1 class. Keep up the great content! Would love to see the croll to croll rescue.
Hello, i saw a technique by passing the foot loop 2 times around the casualty and the basic, that creates a mechanical advantage At same time its easier to stop with the hand as you lower the casualty Any way, you've done a great great video , phisicaly hard, and explaining too, that was impressive Im yor fan 😊😊🙋
What are your thoughts on this? Should we start training every RAT on this technique? Should the rescue from ascenders be a Level 1 rescue as well? Leave a comment on this question and let me know :-)
Not sure if I would add it to a level 1 training as it is already so full of information it could be hard to remember. Could be a mandatory added day after a couple of months or something after the trainee has gotten comfortable with the regular stuff. This technique is very useful in ordinary pick-off rescues as well. Easier to put this up than something like a Jag I'd say. I am curious about other techniques though, something that would make more sense to me would be replacing the foot loop with a Grillon which could be attached to the rescuers croll would eliminate the step of having to add the descender. Although the added friction of a Grillon might be too much of course.
In New Zealand it's part of the IRANZ level 3 (which is the entry level qualification, basically IRATA 1 with a croll rescue) so it's not too much to expect from folks entering the industry*, I remember being shown how to do them and practicing them (but not assessed on it) during my level 1 a decade ago. (*There was a major point of contention between the trade associations over the inclusion/exclusion of it when recognising each other's qualifications - but that's a whooooole other story). Of all the gear we use, a new chest ascended design that is safer and easier to rescue from is number 1 on my wishlist!
Alex, I think this is the technique that should be trained at Level 2 if it isn't already (I was taught this at my level 2). Not sure whether it should be at Level 1 though... the week is already pretty full of brand new skills. Also, most Level 1's would be in their descender most of the time - not sure it's a skill they need until Level 2
@@jennywhite1425 I mean the thing is we do train and assess entry level techs on it down here for IRANZ, and it isn't a barrier to entry any more than anything else in the course. Giving folks at least an understanding of the mechanics of the rescue (even if they aren't necessarily assessed on performing one) makes for a better victim if they do need rescuing. As for level 1 techs spending most of their time in their descending gear, I guess that's true if you're doing windows or something - but I got my first thousand doing geotech and climbing into position every morning, then spending most of the day transferring between ropes, so probably more time on my ascending gear, and it's a very common pathway here. Strictly speaking it's not the job of a level 1 to be doing rescues, but there are all sorts of things that fall under that heading that don't reflect commercial reality anywhere I have worked - all over Asia/Pacific on rocks, rigs, towers, turbines, buildings and confined spaces.
I agree that the week is already very full and for most people it would be to much info. I like the idea that they could learn it after a certain amount of time or maybe hours. It is a very useful skill to have and would enable to have L3's on ropes in Crolls as well. Using a Grillon in the way you described is one of the 5 ways I want to put in the video. Although with enough rope stretch you would a 5 meter Grillon and have to leave it behind maybe. Not all the techniques I am thinking of work on long ropes though. There is at least one that I have not seen online yet. ;-)
thanks for sharing this, whish I had learned this years ago! We do a lot of shitty aid climbing and short rope stuff, very little time spend on a rope so long that this is a problem. But still important knowledge.
Yo similar concept but put the second descender onto you own D ring capturing the rescue link to the casualty like normal, before performing the counterbalance. This prevents the rescuer ever being in the situation of hitting the ground on rope stretch should the working line fail. Seeing as that's one of the other major concerns with a long line rescue I think this method kills two birds with one stone. I know you were only showing the basic method in this vid though, good stuff, I've seen the trapped foot over the head a couple of times always good for a chuckle.
Hi. I've watched loads of your videos and finding them useful. It's clear how you are explaining and stuff. However sometimes,for example on this video you seem too far out from the camera and if I zoom in it gets blurry and hard to see what you operate. ✌️👍
Another variation I have seen is moving casualties descender to their sternal ring, using their hand ascender to build a RAD system. Then use your hand ascender and foot loop to lift casualty off croll. Clean up the equipment, attach your short link, and lower casualties descender on to you. This was a SPRAT 1 rescue.
On what rope do you install the casualties descender? I don't see this working in this setup. I am on the backup line so the only spot would be below me. And you can't attach the casualties descender above his own sternal ring because he is already in his croll on that one. Maybe that is a technique that can work when the rescuer is on his own set of ropes???
Cross loading a carabiner, while not the best, for this application you are still probably well within the safety factor and that thing is not going to see more than a few KN. It’s not like you are taking a whipper on it. But still good habit to be in is to have it in its strongest configuration.
Nice one. What I do instead is passing the sling/cord to create a kind of 3:1 through the carabiner of your basic and the casualty, it makes the counter balance way more comfortable and when you release your weight it adds some grip so you can just softly pinch the sling/cord and you'll never lose control of it. Like your videos though mate!
That is the way I did my first L2 and L3 assessment as well. It is a great litle extra piece of kit. Then I resorted back to teaching this basic way first because I saw quite a few people who “needed” that cord to be able to rescue and never had one on them. Having 5 mtr of accessory cord on you is useful for many things during work as well and it made many hard exercises a lot easier. And basics first 👍🏻
Thanks for the video! Have you or anyone you know ever had to rely on the backup to save you from falling? Like have you ever had a descender or ascender fail?
A plain background would be better to differentiate different ropes, the lack of a plain background and the climbing poster in the background with even more ropes made this video quite difficult to follow. Maybe a few more diagrams before during and after the practical demonstration? Also a wireless mic might help with the sound quality. This is only constructive criticism and not meant to be in any way to be unappreciative of the time and effort you have put in to creating your content.
Thank you for your input. I am wearing a wireless mic. During the intro there were multiple training scenarios going on out of frame and no wireless mic can get rid of the amount of noise that was produced. I got rid of the worst in post. It is not ideal and getting the place empty to film can be hard to plan and not always possible. Now with regards to the background, all i can say is that i invite you to come over and black out the whole background, cancel all training and all the people so a different angle would have been possible. (I am kidding of course. I do appreciate your feedback). Unfortunately I don’t have the time for that and have to make do with what is available. If this channel would make enough money with donations/patreon/YT ads etc, then creating time for that would be easier. Now it is only a side project that costs a lot of time. For me every thing is in frame and there are close ups on some important parts. If it is unclear you can always rewind and pause the video and zoom in to see what is exactly going on. I don’t mean to sound coarse, I just wanted to shine a light on some considerations I have when filming and editing. Time, location and money wise. I truly appreciate your feedback especially because you phrased it so well, so thank you for that 🙏🏻
I don't know any rope access technicians that carry an AZTEK on a regular basis. I only use them for fire brigade rope rescue when my harness has more room... difficult to find real estate for an AZTEK during RAT work!
Like Jenny said, they are not often available. Sometimes they are part of the rescue plan though. Aztek, Wingman or Jag.. That said in this case some ready made set of fours would actually be to short due to the rope stretch. ANd inaid climb rescues or short link there is not enough space for a SOF. SO, I always revert back to basics. Learn the counterbalance and you can do any rope access rescue exercise. If you have a SOF on site, great. If not, you can now improves with just a footloop. I truly believe there are no stupid questions and this is a very good question. Thanks
Croll to Croll would be great. Excellent video. I would love to see more rescue scenarios. What was the problem you mentioned with the Spark getting hung up during this video? I did not see what you were talking about. Thank you,. Jim
Hi Jim, yes like @NickyHendriks said, the carabiner was being crossloaded in spark.. Since then I have added a captive bar on the biner and it hasn’t happend since..
Croll to croll is on the list. As a many other scenario’s. All i need to find is how I can create more time without it impacting my income to much …;-)
Welllllllll…… First, it is safer for straight up and down climbing. Second it severely limits the possibility of having them climb around freely. Now you are limited with straight up and down climbing. Ok and third, my old school hard bleeds a little.. If you can not climb with fall arrest lanyards and are to incapable and fall, the maybe you should not be there doing it in the first place. … So now that politically incorrect statement is out of the way, I think it is safer in a training situation. Is that extra safety necessary? You can probably guess how I feel about it ;-)
@TheRopeAccessChannel a lot of people I have spoken to from petzl, ikar, Beal have all said its basically against manufacturers instructions as there is the possibility of the 2 systems interfering with each other and not working as designed. When we mentioned it to petzl they actually laughed thinking it was a joke then said fall arrest lanyards cannot be used at the same time as another backup. We never have done on our level 1 irata assessment
Yeah that is what I heard as well. I understand why manufacturers say that. And for most of those cases I think the interference will be minimal. If someone trips, the SRL will catch them in a couple of centimeters. That is safer than falling 1 meter or with wrong placements 3 or 4 meters. Who knows what you will hit on the way down.
Would love to see all five ways in a future video :)
Right on! It sneakily was already on the list ;)
Amazing stuff!! I love that we get to see the reality of mistakes that can get made!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Adding the victims rig back in makes a huge difference. Love your videos. They definitely helped me get through my Sprat level 1 class. Keep up the great content! Would love to see the croll to croll rescue.
That is so cool to hear, thank you 🙏🏻. The Croll to Croll bump is set for early next year ;-). Busy times haha
I'd like to see the 5 different rescues from assent please! Also croll- croll bump definitely 👍
That video is coming early next year 👍🏻
Hello, i saw a technique by passing the foot loop 2 times around the casualty and the basic, that creates a mechanical advantage
At same time its easier to stop with the hand as you lower the casualty
Any way, you've done a great great video , phisicaly hard, and explaining too, that was impressive
Im yor fan 😊😊🙋
What are your thoughts on this? Should we start training every RAT on this technique? Should the rescue from ascenders be a Level 1 rescue as well?
Leave a comment on this question and let me know :-)
Not sure if I would add it to a level 1 training as it is already so full of information it could be hard to remember. Could be a mandatory added day after a couple of months or something after the trainee has gotten comfortable with the regular stuff. This technique is very useful in ordinary pick-off rescues as well. Easier to put this up than something like a Jag I'd say.
I am curious about other techniques though, something that would make more sense to me would be replacing the foot loop with a Grillon which could be attached to the rescuers croll would eliminate the step of having to add the descender. Although the added friction of a Grillon might be too much of course.
In New Zealand it's part of the IRANZ level 3 (which is the entry level qualification, basically IRATA 1 with a croll rescue) so it's not too much to expect from folks entering the industry*, I remember being shown how to do them and practicing them (but not assessed on it) during my level 1 a decade ago. (*There was a major point of contention between the trade associations over the inclusion/exclusion of it when recognising each other's qualifications - but that's a whooooole other story).
Of all the gear we use, a new chest ascended design that is safer and easier to rescue from is number 1 on my wishlist!
Alex, I think this is the technique that should be trained at Level 2 if it isn't already (I was taught this at my level 2). Not sure whether it should be at Level 1 though... the week is already pretty full of brand new skills. Also, most Level 1's would be in their descender most of the time - not sure it's a skill they need until Level 2
@@jennywhite1425 I mean the thing is we do train and assess entry level techs on it down here for IRANZ, and it isn't a barrier to entry any more than anything else in the course. Giving folks at least an understanding of the mechanics of the rescue (even if they aren't necessarily assessed on performing one) makes for a better victim if they do need rescuing. As for level 1 techs spending most of their time in their descending gear, I guess that's true if you're doing windows or something - but I got my first thousand doing geotech and climbing into position every morning, then spending most of the day transferring between ropes, so probably more time on my ascending gear, and it's a very common pathway here. Strictly speaking it's not the job of a level 1 to be doing rescues, but there are all sorts of things that fall under that heading that don't reflect commercial reality anywhere I have worked - all over Asia/Pacific on rocks, rigs, towers, turbines, buildings and confined spaces.
I agree that the week is already very full and for most people it would be to much info. I like the idea that they could learn it after a certain amount of time or maybe hours. It is a very useful skill to have and would enable to have L3's on ropes in Crolls as well.
Using a Grillon in the way you described is one of the 5 ways I want to put in the video. Although with enough rope stretch you would a 5 meter Grillon and have to leave it behind maybe. Not all the techniques I am thinking of work on long ropes though. There is at least one that I have not seen online yet. ;-)
thanks for sharing this, whish I had learned this years ago! We do a lot of shitty aid climbing and short rope stuff, very little time spend on a rope so long that this is a problem. But still important knowledge.
My pleasure, glad it helped out !
Yo similar concept but put the second descender onto you own D ring capturing the rescue link to the casualty like normal, before performing the counterbalance. This prevents the rescuer ever being in the situation of hitting the ground on rope stretch should the working line fail. Seeing as that's one of the other major concerns with a long line rescue I think this method kills two birds with one stone.
I know you were only showing the basic method in this vid though, good stuff, I've seen the trapped foot over the head a couple of times always good for a chuckle.
Totally valid point and the subject of a future video about working in long ropes. Thanks for adding to the conversation
Hi.
I've watched loads of your videos and finding them useful. It's clear how you are explaining and stuff. However sometimes,for example on this video you seem too far out from the camera and if I zoom in it gets blurry and hard to see what you operate. ✌️👍
Another variation I have seen is moving casualties descender to their sternal ring, using their hand ascender to build a RAD system. Then use your hand ascender and foot loop to lift casualty off croll. Clean up the equipment, attach your short link, and lower casualties descender on to you. This was a SPRAT 1 rescue.
On what rope do you install the casualties descender? I don't see this working in this setup. I am on the backup line so the only spot would be below me. And you can't attach the casualties descender above his own sternal ring because he is already in his croll on that one. Maybe that is a technique that can work when the rescuer is on his own set of ropes???
Yes, you are correct. The level 1 rescue is from a separate set of ropes.
@@wfd144 then it makes sense. Thank you for sharing and adding to the conversation 🙏🏻
It's great video. Thank you very much.
Glad you liked it! Thank you for letting me know
:-)
Cross loading a carabiner, while not the best, for this application you are still probably well within the safety factor and that thing is not going to see more than a few KN. It’s not like you are taking a whipper on it. But still good habit to be in is to have it in its strongest configuration.
Nice one. What I do instead is passing the sling/cord to create a kind of 3:1 through the carabiner of your basic and the casualty, it makes the counter balance way more comfortable and when you release your weight it adds some grip so you can just softly pinch the sling/cord and you'll never lose control of it. Like your videos though mate!
That is the way I did my first L2 and L3 assessment as well. It is a great litle extra piece of kit. Then I resorted back to teaching this basic way first because I saw quite a few people who “needed” that cord to be able to rescue and never had one on them. Having 5 mtr of accessory cord on you is useful for many things during work as well and it made many hard exercises a lot easier. And basics first 👍🏻
Thanks for the video! Have you or anyone you know ever had to rely on the backup to save you from falling? Like have you ever had a descender or ascender fail?
A plain background would be better to differentiate different ropes, the lack of a plain background and the climbing poster in the background with even more ropes made this video quite difficult to follow. Maybe a few more diagrams before during and after the practical demonstration? Also a wireless mic might help with the sound quality. This is only constructive criticism and not meant to be in any way to be unappreciative of the time and effort you have put in to creating your content.
Thank you for your input. I am wearing a wireless mic. During the intro there were multiple training scenarios going on out of frame and no wireless mic can get rid of the amount of noise that was produced. I got rid of the worst in post. It is not ideal and getting the place empty to film can be hard to plan and not always possible.
Now with regards to the background, all i can say is that i invite you to come over and black out the whole background, cancel all training and all the people so a different angle would have been possible. (I am kidding of course. I do appreciate your feedback). Unfortunately I don’t have the time for that and have to make do with what is available. If this channel would make enough money with donations/patreon/YT ads etc, then creating time for that would be easier. Now it is only a side project that costs a lot of time.
For me every thing is in frame and there are close ups on some important parts. If it is unclear you can always rewind and pause the video and zoom in to see what is exactly going on.
I don’t mean to sound coarse, I just wanted to shine a light on some considerations I have when filming and editing. Time, location and money wise. I truly appreciate your feedback especially because you phrased it so well, so thank you for that 🙏🏻
Just curious? Why not use an Aztek as standard procedure? Could be a dumb question. Just curious!
I don't know any rope access technicians that carry an AZTEK on a regular basis. I only use them for fire brigade rope rescue when my harness has more room... difficult to find real estate for an AZTEK during RAT work!
Like Jenny said, they are not often available. Sometimes they are part of the rescue plan though. Aztek, Wingman or Jag..
That said in this case some ready made set of fours would actually be to short due to the rope stretch. ANd inaid climb rescues or short link there is not enough space for a SOF. SO, I always revert back to basics. Learn the counterbalance and you can do any rope access rescue exercise. If you have a SOF on site, great. If not, you can now improves with just a footloop.
I truly believe there are no stupid questions and this is a very good question. Thanks
Thank you for your input Jenny 🙏🏻 🙏🏻
Croll to Croll would be great. Excellent video. I would love to see more rescue scenarios. What was the problem you mentioned with the Spark getting hung up during this video? I did not see what you were talking about. Thank you,. Jim
It was cross loading the carabiner 😅
Hi Jim, yes like @NickyHendriks said, the carabiner was being crossloaded in spark.. Since then I have added a captive bar on the biner and it hasn’t happend since..
Thanks for chiming in Nicky 🙏🏻
Croll to croll is on the list. As a many other scenario’s. All i need to find is how I can create more time without it impacting my income to much …;-)
What's your thoughts on GWO requesting when students climb with fall arrest lanyards, they also have an inertia reel on their dorsal?
Welllllllll…… First, it is safer for straight up and down climbing. Second it severely limits the possibility of having them climb around freely. Now you are limited with straight up and down climbing.
Ok and third, my old school hard bleeds a little.. If you can not climb with fall arrest lanyards and are to incapable and fall, the maybe you should not be there doing it in the first place. … So now that politically incorrect statement is out of the way, I think it is safer in a training situation. Is that extra safety necessary? You can probably guess how I feel about it ;-)
@TheRopeAccessChannel a lot of people I have spoken to from petzl, ikar, Beal have all said its basically against manufacturers instructions as there is the possibility of the 2 systems interfering with each other and not working as designed. When we mentioned it to petzl they actually laughed thinking it was a joke then said fall arrest lanyards cannot be used at the same time as another backup. We never have done on our level 1 irata assessment
Yeah that is what I heard as well. I understand why manufacturers say that. And for most of those cases I think the interference will be minimal. If someone trips, the SRL will catch them in a couple of centimeters. That is safer than falling 1 meter or with wrong placements 3 or 4 meters. Who knows what you will hit on the way down.
could we have more action shots of the camerawoman
Haha, best comment yet. I am keeping her to myself ;-)