Great discussion all. Aside from the substantive content, I was refreshed at how civil INTJs are in conversation - specifically how patient you all were waiting for a chance to interject. Oddly refreshing to this INTJ.
Another interesting panel. INTJ'S are so fascinating. I have a cousin who is a neurologist doctor. Everything Angelina and Michael said completely defines her lifestyle and philosophy. This panel will help me to understand my cousin more. Thank you fellow INTJ'S and Joyce! 👏👏👏
I’d tell myself: if you are open, there’s something to learn from each and every person you come in contact with. You’ll like people if you surround yourself with people who share your values. You need others more than you know. Especially when you get stuck in your head. Be open to their inputs and look for the value therein Your argument is only as strong as your ability to explain it
I got lucky and had my fifth grade teacher tell us it doesnt matter what you do as long as you look good doing it and yes maybe at first glance that just sounds shallow but grooming and carrying youself in the way necesary to look good whatever you're doing actually lets us INTJs get away with being a little strange personality wise so I've always stayed in shape with sports or weights and learned a bit of style even if i dont care that much about it. I'll always be a bit of a spaz but its just enough for me to squeak out of the odd social situations clean 😉
And also, if you're bombarded with advice on social media, it becomes really difficult to sort out the better ones - because if you have no prior knowledge on the subject, you haven't got any sorting skills. And these days, everyone is so eager to give life advices not regocnizing how the specific advice only applies to them. People who have found the one thing that works for them is so eager to pay it forward, not realizing the limitations of that advice...
Great video and discussion, thank for sharing. I relate to all advices, and have the same experiences : as AsuraPsych I discovered my inner ESFP in my twenties. You are so right INTJ have difficulty to accept words of affirmation. We think we don't deserve it or we are too humble, it's weird for us, trigger our Fi ? 😊🥰 You are very observant, you recognize we laugh on the inside, but from the outside you just see a shy smile 🤣 I love this genuine and shy INTJ smile, it's so cute. You read my mind, theses last days I was thinking the Ideas and Aha moment come when we move our body in the present, do activity or sport, or when we think deeply, often in the shower/bath or when washing dishes (S and N function together). What is fun, I only accept advices from INTJ, later I realise INFJ advices are the best too, and rarely from others types. [It is my INTJ thing : write all or nothing]
Peace! INTJ- Giving advice is like breathing for me and yet it only matters if the recipient does something with it so I had trouble wrapping my mind around those questions. I also don’t need advice I need to learn things i.e. don’t give me communication “advice” teach me how to communicate better give me communication “skills”
Been missing these longer videos! What an impressive panel, thank you all. INTP here, with some burning follow up thoughts. Going all cognitive fx nerd-out here, be warned:) 1. Re: advice. In general was fascinating, and a little troubling for my immature Fe, to see the back n forths about what defines giving advice for each of you. Found it inspiring how important it seems to the INTJ, how you have thought so much about the right’s and wrong’s about it. I resonated with how Michael presented it. But, it was, wisely as usual, somewhat vague, so I wanted to clarify/ ask: The very few times I give advice it happens along this pattern: a friend or close acquaintance is emotionally hurt, and they’re telling a crowd about it. I can see the REASON why they’re hurt, including likely how / why the offending party /person / manager / [insert favorite villain] was thinking / acting and also now how / why the victim is upset. Their story goes on, and on, and I’m starting to feel bad because, for all their talking it out, they still seem so upset and hurt. The crowd is silent or state irrelevant / generic cringy things. If allowed to continue, all of a sudden it happens! I say something, completely out of the blue, seemingly unprepared (although I’ve thought hard about it the entire time), a somewhat vague statement, not at all a judgement or conclusion, but something very unexpected that causes the victim to stop in their tracks. Because, my comment forced them to see their situation in a new and different PERSPECTIVE. My theory: this is Ni working, also in this older INTP with a good amount of life experience. Or is it? It dumps into my head seemingly from clear sky. It usually makes a material impact on the person, sort of ‘shaking’ themselves out of their one-track, victim-mindedness. And, I guess it sounded similar to what Michael stated.
Recognize you will always live with an internal tension between your internal resources and your ability to relate them to the realities of your environment. Rarely will you ever be able to share all your resources in your areas of expertise...people will be overwhelmed.
51:34 Playing role playing video games can have a very simlar effect for me as what Michael is describing here. Games like Kingdom Hearts, Assassin's Creed, or the new God of War games have definitely had this sort of background absorption while I was playing them.
If you don't know where to start in adding value to the world...start by looking for intersections between complex systems. Practice by choosing two systems randomly and thinking about models, frameworks, and systems.
My new nurse Ed manager is an INTJ and I have found that ones that are my age are like now becoming more ExxP like as I’m amping into my IxxJ side so it’s like this weird intersection of middle age. It’s kind of hilarious since I’m like hey hey what if we look twenty years into the future I’m like locking down all of my systems and plans that it’s taken me FOREVER to understand how to apply to my ExxP life. She’s like loosening her grip on hers and it is so weird. I think we should pair all ixxjs with exxps to meet up every ten years and compare notes and to give advice. Honestly, I think I either annoyed, or exhausted them for the first twenty five years of life. Then we sort of finally get that we understand the N world but then at middle age it’s sort of like we finally get what the other opposite is doing and actually value it. It’s like we travel up the same hill from opposite ends, meet at middle age and get excited to see the other side of the hill and have the opposite skill set and then fade off as we unlearn some of our habits and ride off into opposite sunsets. So weird but life advice for all types… take interest in people who see things differently than you and instead of writing them off, shutting them down, or arguing with them… step back and empathize and try to really get their perspective and grow.
I enjoyed listening to this. However, most if not all of the advice and look bacls on these people's lives was already known to me. This is not necessarily a negative thing. Maybe if anything it's a personal realization on my end to continue the journey through taking my own advice. So....thanks for the video :)
Having been in 12-step programs, I think INTJs value the authenticity of the sharing. I had long-term abstinence, but my wise sponsor died suddenly, and I am now atheist. How do you do this program without a deity? (And, no, I can't believe in a "spirit of the universe," Lol.
I don’t agree that extroverted intuition doesn’t make sense and isn’t tied to things. Extroverted intuition is, from my point of view, the most reality-based of the two. It sees reality for what it is, from experience, and can understand how things work objectively because of that. Introverted intuition is often not as objective. It can be very irrational, because it builds on its own interpretation, looking for new things that fit with its own interpretation. Extroverted intuition is always willing to see things in a new light, introverted intuition is often not, it’s a rabbit hole that keeps getting deeper, until something comes along that makes it clear for the rabbit that this isn't a good place to dig the whole for some reason. I wouldn’t say that introverted intuition is in any way more objective than extroverted intuition because reality is too complicated to understand. That’s why extroverted intuition is actually the more objectively rational function, for understanding reality, because we don’t know much, the only thing we know is what we gather from our senses.
I love that when they were talking about “sometimes what I do is just ask a question to get more info and it helps them expand on that”…and then we got to watch it play out in real time, watching each one continue to build on the last, I can’t wait till I get out of this Radom depression cycle so I can start to get my brain working again. I feel lost without it 🥹 Oh…and my advice. Don’t let ppl convince you that there is something wrong with you bc you don’t express your emotions like most ppl. You are just different…and that’s ok. Learning this now
Smile more, exercise more, get and think over other’s advice ==> mature INTJ
"The best place to look for advice is in your own failures."
Great discussion all.
Aside from the substantive content, I was refreshed at how civil INTJs are in conversation - specifically how patient you all were waiting for a chance to interject. Oddly refreshing to this INTJ.
I noticed that as well! Listening very carefully and paying attention. I loved it.
Another interesting panel. INTJ'S are so fascinating. I have a cousin who is a neurologist doctor. Everything Angelina and Michael said completely defines her lifestyle and philosophy. This panel will help me to understand my cousin more. Thank you fellow INTJ'S and Joyce! 👏👏👏
22:24 🤣 no, Joyce, you are not bad at jokes. That made me giggle! 😁
Figure out YOUR system for organizing all the ideas, systems, and patterns in your head so you don't get overwhelmed.
I’d tell myself: if you are open, there’s something to learn from each and every person you come in contact with.
You’ll like people if you surround yourself with people who share your values.
You need others more than you know. Especially when you get stuck in your head. Be open to their inputs and look for the value therein
Your argument is only as strong as your ability to explain it
This 👌🏻
I got lucky and had my fifth grade teacher tell us it doesnt matter what you do as long as you look good doing it and yes maybe at first glance that just sounds shallow but grooming and carrying youself in the way necesary to look good whatever you're doing actually lets us INTJs get away with being a little strange personality wise so I've always stayed in shape with sports or weights and learned a bit of style even if i dont care that much about it. I'll always be a bit of a spaz but its just enough for me to squeak out of the odd social situations clean 😉
I absolutely love these type talks, Joyce
Excellent INTJ panel and insights thanks Joyce. Really enjoyed the broad mix of backgrounds, perspectives and stories.
And also, if you're bombarded with advice on social media, it becomes really difficult to sort out the better ones - because if you have no prior knowledge on the subject, you haven't got any sorting skills. And these days, everyone is so eager to give life advices not regocnizing how the specific advice only applies to them. People who have found the one thing that works for them is so eager to pay it forward, not realizing the limitations of that advice...
I become mature as INTJ reading Crime and Punishment. Raskolnikov NiFi loop is so realistic and excruciatingly
Great video and discussion, thank for sharing. I relate to all advices, and have the same experiences : as AsuraPsych I discovered my inner ESFP in my twenties.
You are so right INTJ have difficulty to accept words of affirmation. We think we don't deserve it or we are too humble, it's weird for us, trigger our Fi ? 😊🥰
You are very observant, you recognize we laugh on the inside, but from the outside you just see a shy smile 🤣 I love this genuine and shy INTJ smile, it's so cute.
You read my mind, theses last days I was thinking the Ideas and Aha moment come when we move our body in the present, do activity or sport, or when we think deeply, often in the shower/bath or when washing dishes (S and N function together).
What is fun, I only accept advices from INTJ, later I realise INFJ advices are the best too, and rarely from others types.
[It is my INTJ thing : write all or nothing]
Peace! INTJ- Giving advice is like breathing for me and yet it only matters if the recipient does something with it so I had trouble wrapping my mind around those questions. I also don’t need advice I need to learn things i.e. don’t give me communication “advice” teach me how to communicate better give me communication “skills”
Been missing these longer videos! What an impressive panel, thank you all. INTP here, with some burning follow up thoughts. Going all cognitive fx nerd-out here, be warned:)
1. Re: advice. In general was fascinating, and a little troubling for my immature Fe, to see the back n forths about what defines giving advice for each of you. Found it inspiring how important it seems to the INTJ, how you have thought so much about the right’s and wrong’s about it. I resonated with how Michael presented it. But, it was, wisely as usual, somewhat vague, so I wanted to clarify/ ask: The very few times I give advice it happens along this pattern: a friend or close acquaintance is emotionally hurt, and they’re telling a crowd about it. I can see the REASON why they’re hurt, including likely how / why the offending party /person / manager / [insert favorite villain] was thinking / acting and also now how / why the victim is upset. Their story goes on, and on, and I’m starting to feel bad because, for all their talking it out, they still seem so upset and hurt. The crowd is silent or state irrelevant / generic cringy things. If allowed to continue, all of a sudden it happens! I say something, completely out of the blue, seemingly unprepared (although I’ve thought hard about it the entire time), a somewhat vague statement, not at all a judgement or conclusion, but something very unexpected that causes the victim to stop in their tracks. Because, my comment forced them to see their situation in a new and different PERSPECTIVE.
My theory: this is Ni working, also in this older INTP with a good amount of life experience. Or is it? It dumps into my head seemingly from clear sky. It usually makes a material impact on the person, sort of ‘shaking’ themselves out of their one-track, victim-mindedness. And, I guess it sounded similar to what Michael stated.
Recognize you will always live with an internal tension between your internal resources and your ability to relate them to the realities of your environment. Rarely will you ever be able to share all your resources in your areas of expertise...people will be overwhelmed.
51:34 Playing role playing video games can have a very simlar effect for me as what Michael is describing here. Games like Kingdom Hearts, Assassin's Creed, or the new God of War games have definitely had this sort of background absorption while I was playing them.
If you don't know where to start in adding value to the world...start by looking for intersections between complex systems. Practice by choosing two systems randomly and thinking about models, frameworks, and systems.
Keep it up
Love your videos Joyce !
As an intj it helps me a lot to navigate through the world and improvise my systems.
My life is working against my personality, I'm trying to optimize and cope with it.
My new nurse Ed manager is an INTJ and I have found that ones that are my age are like now becoming more ExxP like as I’m amping into my IxxJ side so it’s like this weird intersection of middle age. It’s kind of hilarious since I’m like hey hey what if we look twenty years into the future I’m like locking down all of my systems and plans that it’s taken me FOREVER to understand how to apply to my ExxP life. She’s like loosening her grip on hers and it is so weird. I think we should pair all ixxjs with exxps to meet up every ten years and compare notes and to give advice. Honestly, I think I either annoyed, or exhausted them for the first twenty five years of life. Then we sort of finally get that we understand the N world but then at middle age it’s sort of like we finally get what the other opposite is doing and actually value it. It’s like we travel up the same hill from opposite ends, meet at middle age and get excited to see the other side of the hill and have the opposite skill set and then fade off as we unlearn some of our habits and ride off into opposite sunsets. So weird but life advice for all types… take interest in people who see things differently than you and instead of writing them off, shutting them down, or arguing with them… step back and empathize and try to really get their perspective and grow.
Yep a lot of advice o haven’t gotten around taking yet
I seriously just want to hear Michael's thoughts for much longer.
Does he have a RUclips channel
I enjoyed listening to this. However, most if not all of the advice and look bacls on these people's lives was already known to me. This is not necessarily a negative thing. Maybe if anything it's a personal realization on my end to continue the journey through taking my own advice. So....thanks for the video :)
Great video
Having been in 12-step programs, I think INTJs value the authenticity of the sharing. I had long-term abstinence, but my wise sponsor died suddenly, and I am now atheist. How do you do this program without a deity? (And, no, I can't believe in a "spirit of the universe," Lol.
I’m an INTJ-T that’s an Enneagram 8w7
I watched this
this is definitely me
2:08 funny, but nobody laughed. got even more funny :D
If there are any INTJs around looking for a professional face-puncher, hmu.
(Warning- I may take things literally)
Whoa taking responsibility….
maybe im intj then
Best life advice I could give to anyone that is struggling: Get therapy
Lmfao but good one 😅
I don’t agree that extroverted intuition doesn’t make sense and isn’t tied to things. Extroverted intuition is, from my point of view, the most reality-based of the two. It sees reality for what it is, from experience, and can understand how things work objectively because of that. Introverted intuition is often not as objective. It can be very irrational, because it builds on its own interpretation, looking for new things that fit with its own interpretation. Extroverted intuition is always willing to see things in a new light, introverted intuition is often not, it’s a rabbit hole that keeps getting deeper, until something comes along that makes it clear for the rabbit that this isn't a good place to dig the whole for some reason.
I wouldn’t say that introverted intuition is in any way more objective than extroverted intuition because reality is too complicated to understand. That’s why extroverted intuition is actually the more objectively rational function, for understanding reality, because we don’t know much, the only thing we know is what we gather from our senses.
12 step does not function. a relapse rate in alcoholism is around 95%.
When the question about who do you get advice from came up, the first thing that came out of my mind was, Google.
Ahah it's true, from myself and google.
I love that when they were talking about “sometimes what I do is just ask a question to get more info and it helps them expand on that”…and then we got to watch it play out in real time, watching each one continue to build on the last, I can’t wait till I get out of this Radom depression cycle so I can start to get my brain working again. I feel lost without it 🥹
Oh…and my advice. Don’t let ppl convince you that there is something wrong with you bc you don’t express your emotions like most ppl. You are just different…and that’s ok.
Learning this now
That last paragraph hits home - trying to learn this.
- ISTP