Secession in modern America
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2013
- From its inception, the U.S. was created by secessionists who divided colonies and broke away from states to form states of their own. Barry Peterson meets some modern-day secessionists in Colorado and northern California who, if they get their way, would create a 51st or 52nd state.
DIVISION OF A STATE IS NOT SECESSION.
Secession is when the state leaves the Union ENTIRELY.
Simon Purist So each state can become it's own country?
Matthew Jay Evans
Dude thats not what he is saying.
Better read our countries history.....this has been done since our founding as a country. States forming by spliting from another is not secession.
James Guthrie
Yea by force of the victor not the will of Southern states.
The South didn't declare war, they just split away from the Northern states. The Union invaded the South, who at that time was a seperate and soveriegn nation, by the vote of people with constitutional government.
And please don't use the BS of the South fired on Ft. Sumpter. They were asked to leave the Charlston harbor a full month. They were blockading a soveriegn nations land and were forced out. Blockading is an aggressive act of war.
Simon Purist,
a division of a State IS a form of secession.
Don't get into semantical arguments about what secession is or is not.
Secession is smaller part of a political body forming its political body,
announcing its sovereignty and then actually breaking away from the larger
political body.
This is exactly how West Virginia was created.
During the War for Southern Independence,
the northern counties of Virginia were sympathetic with the North.
They formed a political body.
Announced their Sovereignty and then their right to secede.
And then they did it.
They called it secession.
well its a seccession from a state?
When someone has been to california they will understand how northern and southern are like two total opposites and the idea of north cali to become its own state is logical.
Northern (Upstate) New York and New York City are in the same situation as California. New York City is a "Sanctuary City" that now has up to one MILLION illegal aliens and sky-high welfare and social program costs and taxes that are bankrupting the entire state. Many Upstate residents desperately want to form their own state but New York City isn't about to let Upstate go because we have been paying their bills for decades. Pressure is building for a split.
@Anarchist Zero Illegal aliens do not have a "right" to have a say in anything in America. They have a "right" to a fair, impartial and legal due process immigration hearing and if they are found to be in America illegally they have a "right" to a safe and speedy deportation.
1notgilty as someone who has lived in both NYC and about as far upstate New York as you can get, I can promise you that the city as a whole unit ends up pulling its wait just fine and there are a lot more people on some form of government aid in rural New York than there are in the cities.
The real and very clear divide is in diversity and education.
Yeah i agree.
@@1notgilty they may come into the country illegally but don't call them aliens. They are just as human as you and me.
if bigger states wanted to split, i dont see a problem with that!
Either does Russia!!
I do...the electoral college already favors smaller rural states to an egregiously unfair degree. Creating add'l smaller, rural states would exacerbate the problem even more. A pres candidate who wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college would become the norm.
This is one of the results of the Supreme Court's overreaching Reynolds v.s. Sims decision.
@@fishbone3333 you know, the better way to ensure that everyone is heard, would be to abolish district voting altogether and switch to proportional representation (which would bring your country one step closer to democracy)
I personally think that if the people of the state of jefferson’s beef is with the federal US, then forming a new state would not really help them as long as that state is still a “UState “ and if being sovereign is their goal, then they would have to become a country. (Like the republic of Ireland)
@@nathanroos4143 We don't want democracy. Democracy would not work for the little people. That is why we never had it. STOP
Is there anything we can do to help California, Oregon, and Washington in their efforts to secede? We need to do everything possible to help them in this endevor.
maybe this could be a deal nowadays to the Dems. because they want two new democratic states.
@@g.b.alejandro6268 That would be horrible. I meant help them secede from the Union. Make them their own country. Let them rot in their own filth and quit infecting everybody else.
"We won't be as powerful as we were before." Yea, that's kinda the point!
There needs to be a minimum population limit on a state as to keep big states from splitting up 100 times, and it needs to be a significantly difficult procedure as to discourage it being done on a whim, but I personally have no problem with the idea of states splitting (or merging for that matter) as a concept.
There is. "The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative."
I agree. This is not secession.
The Continental Army was outnumbered too. How did that work out for the larger force?
It’s time! Vote yes on the recall or form Jefferson!
Remember how the District of Columbia aka Washington DC is trying to become the Washington Douglass Commonwealth after the liberal Democrat-controlled House of Representatives approved of the idea. If it does become the 51st state then it will give extra seats in Congress to the Democrats and allow them to increase their share of both chambers. There have been numerous efforts to create new states across America which tend to be conservative Republicans like Jefferson (Northern California and Southern Oregon) and North Colorado.
If we had Swiss Constitution, there would be over 5,000 states. Food for thought.
The easiest solution is to allow big cities to become independent in some form or fashion.
All Americans in all 50 states and DC and Puerto RICO will voice Yes or No
About Puerto Rico being acknowledged
As a 51 st State. I will put in my vote
After I hear the truth if it helps the people of Puerto Rico.
smaller states are always freer, larger unions always result in less representation
It makes me angry how they just say that those who want are for the state of Jefferson are racist. They just use it as a tool to call the other side immoral rather then actually debating the issue.
"Secessionists just don't like people with different cultural values than them." Why in the name of God would you want to be ruled by cultural values other than your own? Why would someone want to force their cultural values on an unwilling population? That is cultural imperialism. Secession is about self determination and living in the type of society you want to live in and there is nothing wrong with that.
Farrakhan wants land for his people...good luck.
@@andrewdrew2046 Honestly though black Americans should have their own country somewhere where they can rule themselves. It would solve so many problems.
@@clovismerovingian2239 Then let start divvying up where people want to live but first the United States must pay for past wrongs.
@@clovismerovingian2239 You be surprised how many whites and others would live with black Americans.
Like Black wall street we would be prosperous without the hate and jealousy of prejudice whites.
Yeah, I'm not going to pull the pin on that grenade. Have a blessed life.
So northern California is very conservative compared to the more liberal southern California?
The strongest case for dividing any state can be made in New York. Since its founding, New York City has dominated the politics and economics of the entire state. Regardless of your political beliefs, it has to be acknowledged that New York City is the most important city in the world, surpassing even Washington DC. The rest of New York State is mostly rural with clear political and economic differences. The 2014 Elections proved that. It is common sense that the two should be equal but separate, neither capable of making laws for the other. Separating NYC from the rest of the state is the best solution to ensure the people of Upstate New York are represented at the state level.
Absolutely wrong
Should California have the adequate representation it needs, the country as a whole would change overnight. It is the largest state both by size and population. It is characterized by its progressiveness.
NYC is a big block between Long Island and upstate sadly if NYC leaves idk what is gonna happen to LI my home and I love being part of NY
PatriotGamesUS4 State of Niagara. Proposal to the Upstate
PatriotGamesUS4 New York City controls the rest of the state.
Both New York and Illinois are heavily controlled by their largest urban area. Both New York City and Chicago carry their home states in Congress. Loss of both these two massive cities could cost both New York and Illinois valuable representation and federal funding.
No one in Northern Colorado doesn't care for becoming a state because
1.Colorado Springs exists in Colorado and is heavily conservative and is the biggest conservative city in the state with 484,000 people so basically this city keeps the state together
2.By all means there are plenty of conservative places in Colorado outside of Northern Colorado such as Longmont,Loveland,and all of Western Colorado.Not all of Colorado is liberal
3.The capital and biggest city of Northern Colorado is Greeley and I don't have anything against Greeley but no one else likes Greeley and so the people up in North Colorado would much rather have Denver be the capital than Greeley because this would make their new state a complete joke(serilously,South Park made fun of Greeley)
4.Everything will be based in Weld county so this would not help their cause.
Colorado is better United than Divided and the people of this state knows that
As someone with family in Greeley, I'm fairly sure most people feel as though they have no power over their state, especially in Greeley and especially with gun laws. The immediate backlash after almost every new gun control law get bigger each time, but I'm not sure the coloradan government is willing to accept these arguments
Lolololo!!!! There is no Capitol of Northern Colorado. Denver is the State Capitol. FYI - Fort Collins is the main city in Northern Colorado.
what are planning to do . Split up the the electoral votes . make sure if they do votes remain the same . So why was hawaii forced into the the United States government .Then forced to use the United States currency . They forced to help pay another nations debt knowing that the use of that nations currency would ultimately bankrupt a nation with wealth . A corporation cannot annex a nation neither can a bankrupt government . Both of these are facts were in play at the time of the illegal overthrow of the kingdom of hawaii . This is also called racketeering ! so hawaii has a claim to everything that was created by the incorporated United States government from 1886 . all who are connected to the corporation and made a profit ! will hawaii receive justice ? They won't allow it ! This is why the world is being controlled by criminals !
Sadly, I must agree. Robber barons from the United States bullied Hawaii into giving up its independence. They left Queen Liliuokalani no choice but to abdicate. Then the U.S. government supported them. That never should have happened. I'm proud to be from the U.S.A., but we have done some pretty embarrassing things in our history. Hawaii was certainly one of them.
I vote for the secession of California from the United States.
Counties of one state certainly do have the right
to form their own political body,
to announce their sovereignty, and then
actually breaking away.
This exactly how the State of West Virginia was formed.
And they did not need the permission of the rest of the State.
They just did it.
During the War for Southern Independence the northern counties
of Virginia were sympathetic with the North.
So the northern counties formed their own political body.
Announced their sovereignty and their right to separate from the rest of the State.
Athen they just did it.
THEY called it secession.
They did this unilaterally without the permission of the rest of the State.
Funny how Lincoln recognized their right to secede but
not the Southern States.
The city of New York threatened to break away from the North at one time
because most New Yorkers recognized the Southern States right to secede and
did not want to sacrifice their blood for the cause to keep them in the "voluntary" union.
Succession is leaving The USA, like the confederates did. What West Virginia did was breaking off from normal Virginia so that they could stay in the union. It was allowed because they were staying.
Socialists dont want to loose the cash cow! Vote the bums out in Colorado!
A third of Colorado is part of Texas, Eastern Colorado should rejoin Texas.
Good luck. I live in West Virginia and we are still dominated by outside interests both public and private. My point is that you will gain nothing by breaking up your state. If bureaucracy is your problem why create more of it.
littleteethkeith Exactly,Virginia should reunite
The problem is a concentration of power. The rural areas should have more power relative to the urban areas. When the Supreme Court proclaimed the principle of “one-man, one vote,” it prevented the states from letting the states have upper houses that represent regions of states. A California where a hundred thousand people who have the power to ignore the interests of an equal, but less concentrated population in Northern California one that has disenfranchised those in Northern California.
As if this isn't an issue in red states where others are marginalized...
"other" is NOT about skin color! It is about offensive ideology.
Lets see how this goes when liberal sections of conservative states do this.
Ciro Amaya the only thing I can think of is Florida & Texas. Florida could split no problem, but Texas is so economically dependent on each other so one split ruins the other, also Texas is Rich & regardless no one wants to change it. While California has great potential for economic success it is in massive debt atm
Literally liberal section are basically the major cities all throughout the country. Georgia is a conservative state with a liberal capital.
Tennesseans would welcome Memphis independence :D
It's fine
Biggest problem in our country. Politicians from big cities decide what should be done in rural areas without getting input or seeing.
Everything that has been done is to protect rights it's the Right that screwing us
Then why is it the left that is continually trying to strip us of our rights every step of the way ??
@@ST19859 Name one, I can name MANY times Trump has tried and has tooken away our rights let me guess your going to point to gun control huh?
@@getyourgameon1990 What constitutional right has Trump specifically tried to or succeeded in taking away ??
Gun control is a major one, as any honest leftist will tell you their ultimate goal is the removal of all guns from the public. But more importantly the left has of late decided speech is the next thing to attack, they believe they have the right to decide what speech and beliefs
are or are not acceptable. That scares me the most of all. True facists at work
@@ST19859 umm what about his ban on Muslium? Or ban on doctors from speaking on abortion? What about him trying to get sams control that Left wants? And we are not taking away anyone right to guns just make it harder
Why is there not a couple of millionaires in cal. that can move their business to the State of Jefferson. Help them get the job done ,just think 60 to 70 % less regulation lower tax rate, where could you go wrong.JP
Free Jefferson from the liberal curse! Support from oregon
Support from Texas!
Free Dixieland
They didn't just call themselves a separate country, the CSA was by all rights sovereign.
No country on Earth recognized the Confederate States of America, hence it is not a sovereign country, *because it lost that war!*
Go back to your hole troll!
@@OpinionesDeJACCsOpinions the british empire actually recognized it, Im no fan of the CSA but their country was legitimate, and for the record it cant even be called the civil war, a civil war means a division within the country, the csa left entirely, Im sorry but thats tge facts, and theres no need to be rude about it, and besides the union just forcefully stole back the csa so what does it matter to you?
@@humorme6132
Cite your source, because no one ever recognize the CSA. The Confederacy wanted both Britain and France to interviene on its behalf on the believe that loosing their main source of cotton would push them to stop the war to the benefit of the CSA (King Cotton strategy I believe it was called), but it didn't manage it and it was thanks to the fact that the Union was able to keep them from recognizing it and helping it in any significant way. So, because no one ever recognize it, it never truly left and that's how it was treated post-Civil War, specially in the case that solidified the fact that the Constitution of the United States doesn't allow for succession in a legal way (Texas v White), but the Supreme Court did say that a successful insurrection would make this mute, the South didn't exactly have a “successful insurrection”, now did it?🤨
I'll never apologize for loathing the Confederate States of America, their one true goal was always to keep people of African ancestry shackled I don't care what the Lost Cause says, *cuz it's a lie!*
www.britannica.com/event/King-Cotton
www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
Opiniones de JACC's Opinions nobody cares about the rest of the world, North America is all that matters
Opiniones de JACC's Opinions and the civil war wasn’t just about slavery but honestly nobody cares what you Europeans think
One solution to this would be to have state legislators set up like the federal Congress. The state Senate should be like the federal Senate with 1 rep from each county. Rural interests would have more of a say in state politics.
Why not have each large metro areaa in California become its own state, too?
State of Los Angeles: 2 senators in the US Senate
State of San Francisco: 2 senators
State of San Diego: 2 senators
State of Riverside-San Bernandino: 2 senators
State of Sacramento: 2 senators
All of these new "states" would have higher populations than the "state" of Jefferson.
The rural folk can have two more Senators in the US Senate and the urban folk can get 10 more.
For clarity I support none of this. I am particularly against the idea of bringing in new states to the union with such small populations, as the small states already have an over-weighted influence in the US Senate.
There is a clear divide in this country between urban interests and rural interests. This divide is greater than any time in recent times. Perhaps after forming separate states we allow the rural states to ACTUALLY secede from the USA. Each can pursue their own interests and still band together for mutual defense, etc. Most of the Blue States are net tax contributors while most of the Red states actually receiving more in federal spending than they contribute in taxes. Some type of EU arrangement might work out better and government could actually get some things done once again.
Or the rural areas can learn a little compromise instead of complaining that their interests aren't represented because they aren't getting everything they want.
They behave as is if they don't have both houses of their state legislatures and the governorship that they are being overwhelmed by urban interests and should have their own states.
You need to think bigger... and think smaller stronger states for "everyone"... for not just for your area. Look at the size of the first 13 states, that is the size a state should be; The Founder's hated "distant legislatures" as they understood it is impossible to have adequate representation when the representation was not very local.
Think about turning ALL Counties into States to get more people on the band wagon so that you are not fighting alone; Think the size of Rhode Island or Connecticut.
Remember that Oregon became a state with 40 - 80,000 people this should be a MAXIMUM number before an area "automatically" will become or have a right to declare Statehood.
Read this on Republics and Representation: www.americanpatriotparty.cc/americanpatriotpartynewsletter/APP_2008/app_2008.html
You have to understand as well, Southern Oregon does not want to be strapped hand and foot to Northern California who is heavily dependent on federal money and federal jobs;
We want to rid ourselves of that.
Rather, creating the "State of Jackson" (presently a County) as with other new state/counties with full power of statehood will limit Salem's self serving bureaucratic federaly influenced power to only one the little area of the county the city of Salem resides;
Putting all the "Yertle the Turtles"(see Dr. Suess title) of present state capitols in their place, and limit what they can see and what they have power over.
The state of Shasta and the state of Siskiyou forming with other counties around the United states willing to rid themselves of federal money and mandates would fair much better; and make it known in establishing Compacts that dictate that rule.
Why not invite the power of many that would not be so easily manipulated by the powers that be as would only one single easily manipulated "State of Jefferson".
If your movement put as much effort into encouraging ALL counties to demand statehood, you would have far more support because more communities would benefit. As importantly, breaking up the federal control by making so many states they could not control, you would break up the federal and large state power structures; and in so doing, empower local communities to have the adequate representation the Constitution intended.
Think bigger and get more people interested.
Richard Taylor
Chair
American Patriot Party National Headquarters
Educate Yourself. Educate Others.
www.americanpatriotparty.cc
Facebook: facebook.com/AmericanPatriotPartyNationalHeadquarters/
Red States Unite.....
"Same-Sex Union", THAT is a more appropriate term, and might have solved the "issue", if such problem was in reality desiring a solution by its proponents.
Ewww disgusting
You mad? 😂
The main problem with creating new states, is how are we going to update the Senate, electoral college, and Congress?
The same way they did it for the dakotas and the Virginia’s.
Senate is part of congress, and they would just add 2 more senators so it would be 102 instead of 100.
Insanity!
Brinkley is a typical elitist. “Fear of the other.” Well, he has his own fear of the other, the America of his own grandfather.