Tinning corroded pins on the trash-picked CGA card
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- I recently found a corroded IBM CGA card in a scrap pile and brought it back to life using some chemicals to remove corrosion. I than movidied the card with some hacks to see if I could speed it up. Now it's time to try to make sure this card lasts in the long run. We can't leave exposed copper on the edge connector or it'll just corroded again. Time to fix that!
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I know there will be a lot of peopel who wanted to see me do gold plating on this connector. Might be a fun experiment in the future, but what I did here is perfectly good for this left-for-dead card, at least for me. :-)
Gold would be expensive for a trash card. Probably better to save that for something rare and important that needs saving.
If tinning edge connectors was good enough for TI's 99/4a carts, it's good enough for a garbage rescue CGA card
It's pretty expensive and that involves double plating (nickel first, gold second), so i'll use only for something VERY VERY rare.
Many, many years ago I was involved in manufacture of pcb's, we had a rework starion for edge connectors, basically a current regulated DC supply feeding a carbon rod wrapped in a cloth sleeve. This was soaked in the electroplating solution, worked well for a quick touch up, but the solution was mainly gold potassium cyanide, not something you would want to mess with at home!
yeah no. the metal has to be so squicky clean for a good plating, you had no chance to do that here. too oxidized. you did the right thing here, amazing results.
if in the future the tinning starts to look dull or oxidizes, it can be quickly redone with a bit of flux and braid
Tin edge card fingers work because tin oxide (SnO2) and lead oxide (PbO2) are both conductive, important because the metal will oxidize quite quickly after soldering. It is not as conductive as gold, but it is good enough for an application such as this. Back in the 'day' I used to get Radio Shack project boards that were unplated copper and tin the edge-card fingers so they would work reliably. I built several small projects for my CoCo using those, since RS sold a CoCo-sized project board, the bus was very project-friendly, 6809 code was dead simple, and the excellent Willamette Valley CoCo club in Eugene (close to where I grew up) had a lot of smarties that were always happy to help with projects. Great video and a good example of how to preserve the hardware for another generation or so. Cheers!
Save tin and wick. Just use a small peace of wick and tin it. Go through all connectors with it.
That´s very clever, to use the wick like a sponge and with heat "wipe" it on to the connectors. I´ll remember that for future use, thanks. Question, it would still require flux, right?
@@agw5425oh yeah you would want flux
Or use the mg chemicals tinning sollution.
If you are adamant on using tin use a tinning solution, not solder it is not the same.
The solder will scrape off and oxidize leaving sockets nasty and error prone.
@@1kreature why not nickel then?
Here's a technique I used recently to restore the beat-up edge connector on my SuperCPU: after tinning all the contacts like you did in the video, don't reach for the solder braid/wick. Instead, reach for the box of cotton swabs/Q-tips.
Heat each contact from its leading edge, and while keeping the heat on the whole time, slide the cotton swab along the pad, applying firm pressure and pushing the solder toward/onto the iron. Use the swab to actually push the iron off the pad as you get to the end of each one, so that heat isn't lost until the very last moment.
Then the usual IPA, eraser, etc. for clean-up. The result is a very thin, even film of solder. Done right, it's hard to tell that it's not OEM. 😉
I used to manage a video game store and that’s exactly what I did to repair badly corroded carts. NES, snes, n64, etc. worked beautifully.
It wasn't uncommon for "low-end" isa cards and simms in the 80/90s to come tinned and not gold plated, still worked ok
the edge connector on zx80,zx81s, and spectrums were just solder tinned and were notorious for bad connectios,, eg. ram pack 'wobble' crash!
@@andygozzo72 was gonna mention that. Those connectors aren't goldplated just for looks but because gold is extremely corrosion resistant.
@@andygozzo72 That edge connector has obvious mechanical issues, it's completely mechanically unsupported and usually not even bevelled, unlike any of the real goldfinger cards. So the expansion connector can lever itself in such a way that the leaf contacts touch the edge where there isn't any metal at all.
But yeah tin isn't the preferred type of contact material. Nicest being of course hardgold, and in a pinch maybe something like nickel. I also can't decide if leaded or unleaded tin is worse, the surface oxide if and when it does build is horrendous either way.
@@andygozzo72 The ZX ram packs had an awful bad design, it had nothing to do with the tinned edge connector, the thing had a lot of weight and it wasn't supported with nothing else but the connector, so it wobbled very easily and the contacts were disconnected. Other devices like the Interface1 or the Kempston joystick port worked in the same expansion port and didn't had any of these troubles.
@@andygozzo72i think its because Sinclair pushed the expense of the connector part on to the peripheral manufacturer to keep the motherboard component cost down. Means that the mating is the other way around to more expensive micros, and the board gets more wear from repeated connections :/
Tarnex Pro and MG Chemicals 421A Liquid Tin allows those connections to be plated over without any heat applied and is super fast.. Might be worth a look. Keeping that surface as thin absolutely as important as possible with edge connectors. Sanding at least in my opinion is a bad idea for pin legs or edge connectors, though that's just me. It works for many.
I was going to comment about chemical solutions too! :D
MG Chemicals Liquid Tin is nasty stuff. It is for lab use only, not home use. Please read and understand the MSDS.
I find your enthusiasm refreshing.
GadgetUK164 is the master of re-tinning.
I'm used to use an eraser to clean contacts. Keep up sharing knowledge , i love it , greetings from the Netherlands
You did a great job there, connector is looking so much better now. What i did on some of the edge connectors was use rough pencile eraser (rougher side of a double eraser) to remove the oxidation and smooth out the surface, clean with ipa, then tin like you did, then i used hot air soldering gun to heat up 2-3 pins at once and cotton cloth to wipe off the excess wiping from pcb side towards the edge of the connector. I got a very even smooth and shiny surface. I used solder that has a bit of silver in it, i think it was Stannol Sn62/Pb36/Ag2. Very good stuff.
that chem-wik solder braid is fantastic stuff
Toilet paper as solder wick?!? Now, that I HAVE TO SEE.
Liquid solder tinning definitely works as a dip-it-in process, though I'm not sure what nasty chemicals are in it!
Electroplating stuff in general is super fun, you should try it, even if it's not gold.
I did the same on my last video - on non-gold plated contacts - and worked perfectly! Heat and flux dissolves corrosion, it was almost brand new! Yes, you lose gold plating on this occasion but - as you say - home plating is just not on my way now! This is good enough!! Thanks for showing this to us!
Awesome job.. it's great to see old cards revived and now tinned and will last another 40 years. One interesting thing about the solder wick and cost.. we've gotten so used to things on sites like the jungle website hawking cheap garbage (no offense to Chinese people by any means) but mass produced very low quality junk from China (again, no offense) and on the eBay the same stores offer the same junk, but yeah some things in life you just have to pay to get quality products. Lots of things can be had at a discount, but when it comes to electronics and working with them, there's really no cheap way around it. Man I miss Radio Shack.
the preservation of old hardware is the preservation of the legacy of architectural art that is being engraved in them aesthetically .
The re-tinning result looks very nice, I think it's usefull for fixing some old nes cartiages corroded pins.
Maybe short term. For NES stuff, why not reproduction PCBs?
When I built my bootleg CGA card some forty years ago, I Wanted gold plated edge pins, so I recovered some from a scrapped VeroBoard card. I delaminated the epoxy to obtain two very thin strips holding all the contacts, using a small file. Then I stripped off the area where the contacts were meant to reside and filed it down to a suitable thickness. I then glued my two strips in place and soldered small wires to establish contacts everywhere. It worked like a charm. Very time-consuming, but the contacts are still like new, forty years later.
Nice! Reminds me when I made some PCBs and accidentally designed the PCB mask over the edge card connector. Had to sand that down to the copper edge fingers and do exactly what you just did! Nice job!
when we buy solder around here we ask for 'the good stuff'. They know what we want
I used to clean edge connectors like that on game cartridges using a pencil eraser. I also did the same with PC cards too.
1/129 = 0.78% Nice little project, and it aptly demonstrates how easy it is to save old retro hardware with just a little effort. Thanks!
All I can say is...wow!
Great work, Adrian.
Liquid tin by MG Chemicals.
This is what it's designed for. 10x faster. Will not corrode.
Very expensive though.
@@lexluthermiesterMG isn't cheap but they have great stuff. I use their carbon paint to refresh Amiga and Plus/4 keyboard plungers. For such old devices I think it's worth the money.
It's for lab use only, not the home. Please read the MSDS. It's extremely nasty stuff. It will destroy your esophagus, can give really bad burns, will likely give you cancer (no not the level of it's likely to cause cancer by the state of California, real material safety data sheet cancer concerns), and not to mention, it's extraordinarily toxic to aquatic life. You cannot flush this down a home's sink, you have to dispose of it by a real commercial chemical disposal company, household hazardous waste disposal will not suffice either. I keep seeing people recommend this product, it's great and all, I've used it in a lab. However it's absolutely not for the home. Please for the love of all that is holy, please don't use this in a house.
Woooow! That’s super effective
This is the way. I saw a lot of interesting suggestions on the last video, but this is how we've done it forever. It just works.
I have used tightly rolled up paper towel as a soldering iron tip cleaner. Fold the paper towel over a few times, then roll as tightly as you can. Apply tape to one end (to stop it unrolling), and use the other to brush the excess/old solder off of your soldering irons tip. Works great, is dirt cheap, and a single piece of paper towel can last many months.
Perhaps that was what your friend was using to brush the excess solder off of the tinned connection.
After tinning and removing with the solder wick, apply Flux and reflow what is left with a hot air gun to get your surface finish as good as it can be.
Doskonała robota, Adrianku! 😎
I would add one additional step, after IPA... apply Stabilant 22 Contact Enhancer to both the edge connector & the mating slot. It's not the same as clean gold contacts, but it will seriously improve the conductivity properties of that connector.
Second you on the wick, I love it. PCB's I use soldersucking iron thing. I renovate, repair and re-allign valve radios for a laugh and use tons of wick
great job tinning that connector Adrian looked really good
SANDPAPER?????? Ow, never in the world i would have expected you of all the knowledgable people to recommend this so quickly. That is really your ultimate last resort after trying this first (and in this order!): 1. Silverpolish with brush or brasso 2 grey scotsch bride (softer) 3 red scotsch bride (bit ruffer) 4 maaaaaybe very fine sandpaper, but personally i’d never stray to that area…. Your method i’ve never seen before after all these years watching youtube, so very much thank you for showing me!!!! 🙏 i wonder where you found the method
Scotsch bride takes no or very little material away, sandpaper can really take a lot of material away, so it’s a huge gamble, i suspect it can instantly and permanently damage the pins (if unlucky lifts the pads or tears them), this video can also apply to old console cartridge pins.
That worked surprisingly good
Great job you did Adrian. Thankx for sharing. Greetings from Steven from the Netherlands
I've used the shielding braid from co-ax cable as solder wick. Just flatten it and coat it in flux. It works well.
Except when you end up grabbing flooded cable by mistake. Can't solder to that stuff at all!
@@tirsek LOL
Thanks for sharing that brilliant method.
You could use small piece of the wick, soak it woth solder and than go with it over all the pads to cover them with solder and just remove remains with another clean wick.
The wick works but whats even better is using your hakko fr-301. i use that thing for cleaning SMD pads all the time
I tin a lot of edge connectors on my arcade boards and I have found the easiest way to tin is to apply the solder then heat it up and wipe it off with your finger. It is a little hot but not unbearable and not painful. I am not sure it would give better results but it would be faster. I don't use flux wither when I do it. A bunch of edge connectors burn themselves up at the power connections so I have had to clean up and replace some of the fingers with copper tape. The tinning covers the copper and connects it to the good trace.
Nothing wrong with tinned edge connectors; there's a history going back decades of using this on simpler or low-cost products, and it works just fine. One of the available finishes from PCB manufacturers is HASL, Hot Air Solder Leveling, which is basically exactly what you've done here.
It's easy to apply at home, even to contacts in rough shape, and produces a reasonably durable finish that won't corrode that easily. Trying to gold-plate the fingers is complicated and fraught, because even the "simpler" gold plating methods (which are a lot more complicated than this) will produce a finish that is too thin and too soft to be useful, and a solder finish will be better. Reproducing a proper hard gold (different than the typical ENIG) finish as is normally used on edge connectors is out of reach of most hobbyists, and not worth the trouble.
I've used rear window defroster repair tape as a replacement for traces. Its kind of mcgyverish but it worked. We never have moisture corosion problems in Portland
I love those songs like the one you're using. It's hard to feel sad when hearing songs like that. Great vid.
Such a great result - well done.
When tin-plated contacts mate with gold-plated, this can cause galvanic corrosion. After some time (depending on humidity, this is in months or years), the contacts will start causing issues. The contact resistance will go up and noise is added to signal. When moving the connector, it will go back to normal until the next time. I've seen this happen with pin headers in over half a year in outdoor environment. The tin plating will also leave a thin tin layer on gold plating and mess up the gold-plated contact. Tin-tin is much more reliable than tin-gold.
yes. It would have been better to use cleaner and dielectric grease.
I use that exact solder wick I have been using Chemtronics products since the 1980s !
So satisfying to do, and satisfying to watch.
That's a nice little trick for fixing messed up edge connectors. Neato!
That's funny- just before watching this video, I watched RetroBird's latest video and the track he uses is the same one used here.
Absolutely amazing
Very nice! You did a great job on it.
Just watching a second time just because it's a short video and time runs away so quickly.
That's an amazing result!
Another gentle abrasive to use on contacts is a pencil eraser, like you would find on a #2 pencil.
I have also used the liquid tin and it works great but is expensive.
Loving that you are rocking the Ohio Scientific t-shirt.
you'll have to shine up the solder at some future point because it will develop a layer of hazy oxidation over time. it'll be good for a least a few years though
I never thought of doing this. I've got a few NES games that are in real bad shape, that even a Dremmel buffing wheel can't clean well enough to work. I will definitely try this.
Dremmel? Oh lord, i’ve never seen this. You could also try silver polish, brasso, grey scotsch bride or red scotsch bride. Sandpaper really tricky i would say, better to avoid, and dremmel, well, let’s say i’m surprised :)
Отлично, ещё на 1000 лет хватит :-)
It's an OK fix but for something that matters you can't really go past gold. Tandy used tinning on the edge connectors for the expander port on the MI motherboard and also the interface cards in the MIII. I was always cleaning the floppy edge connectors in my MIII until I gave in and bought a chemical gold plating kit. Should have done it far earlier but hindsight.
I see other comments about cheaper SIMM cards, yes, saw tinning there too. Those modules were very touch sensitive, give them a nudge while the PC was running and it pretty much guaranteed a crash, at least in my experience. Gold flashed ones were far better, reduced the crashiness of PCs we sold.
They're literally called "gold fingers" by the way, and the reason you'll get some people complaining about tinning them is that you kind of prevent gold plating in the future without replacing the fingers with fresh copper. What you did is technically not an industry acceptable practice ... for like, you know, a professional repair shop shipping products off on federal government contracts. For the rest of us, though, who don't want to mess around with gold plating and just want to make our electronics work it's perfectly fine.
If you want a ultra reliable tinning according to military/aerospace/medical standards, you now technically have to tin it again and remove it a second time.
Reason: Gold rapidly dissolves in tin. So whenever you solder on a gold trace or gold plated pin, the gold is no longer there and in the solder joint now and can embrittle it.
This typically doesn't matter much, and in consumer electronics surely noone bothers with it. For aerospace/military/lifesaving or other high reliabilty equipment it is an requirement though to remove the gold layer first.
The dissolving I personally witnessed. Tried to solder fine gold wires of a strain gauge with normal (lead free) solder, and they just totally disappeared as soon as I touched them.
Ahh, the Retro Bird music 😂
Gold plating (ENIG) doesn't have a huge advantage over tin-lead coating other than it's less likely to oxidize, put some deoxit on the connector afterwards will mitigate it. In a factory the solder is leveled using hot air (HASL). You did a great job!
ENIG is not the same thing as hard gold plating found on mass produced cards. Enig is about as soft as HASL.
I've got profound concerns about what sort of toilet paper your friend is using. Maybe you should buy him some Charmin.
They're kitchen towels.
Copper-coated Scotch-Brites for maximum crevice exfoliation.
You can probably be less abrasive if you use dual-wipe sockets. hehe
When you run out of the 60/40 solder, make sure to spring for the good stuff: 63/37 (this solder solidifies MUCH faster than the older 60/40 formulation). 🙂
This is basically what I did, accidentaly, when modifying a 5.25 Quad Density floppy drive to use with my Amiga, I had to add a switch for Disk Change (I think? Been a while!) and I went to solder a wire onto a via next to Pin 2, and somehow managed to get solder on the contact, and tried in vain to get the solder off, but ultimately, it's now just an odd one out with all the other contacts being gold, and that one being 60/40 solder plated... :P
So satisfying!
I've found that pink pencil erasers are really good at cleaning off contacts.
I am now crying for all the cards I could have saved through the years, were it not for my lack of imagination. But at least now I have hundreds of cards I may be able to save from scrap.
The pads should be scratched with a school rubber and then polished. After that, nickel phosphorus for the rescue! Super cheap and effective!
Apparently fingers are either gold or silver and I was told a long time ago when I did rework and prototyping not to get solder on fingers as you can't get it off and it will eventually corrode. However, at this point in my life I have seen solder tinned fingers (even ones that didn't have the excess removed) last literally decades and what you have done in this video is way better than that brown looking bare copper. I always thought too that if it did corrode you could just re-tin it someday although that isn't acceptable for a production environment I guess.
I would be afraid that the solder layer would oxidize too quickly!
Perhaps silver conductive lacquer would be a better solution for such contacts?
Best Regards, Georg
Nurdrage on YT has a tutorial to make a chemical tinning solution from household products. Can just paint it onto copper for a tin coating. I used it on a milled copperclad board, and it worked great and was very even.
"the cheap stuff sucks". isn't that exactly what solder wick should so? 😂😂
I think you used much more solder than necessary. It should be enough to fill the braid/wick with some solder and use the braid/wick itself as the source of solder. There's also a tinning liquid you can buy, but you might have to remove oxidation on the surface first. Not sure.
3:52 He's the Retro Bird, yeah, and he's talkin', talkin' about video games...
Tin plating is fine. The only reason gold is used is that it doesn't oxidize. Tin will oxidize, but it's easy enough to "clean" it by removing and installing the card. With gold you can plug it in and forget it. Coating the tin pins with oil (automotive stores sell a silicon grease called dielectric grease) will prevent oxygen getting to the contacts by creating a barrier.
I use NTE desoldering braid. I think its the best.
Awesome job, great results! How does your friend use toilet paper instead of solder wick? I picture someone putting their iron to it and setting their house on fire. I'm guessing he's using a heat gun to melt it, and wiping it to the edge with toilet paper?
I forgot why you made it do the thin font. I think I like the fat font! :) EGA and VGA had installable code pages, so you could use your own font. My proudest hack was to decipher "code page information" files (*.cpi) and then write a font editor to make my own fonts. Need a device statment device=c:\dos\display.sys con=(ega.cpi,437,(1,1)) then you reserve space for a primary and alternate font. You can edit the cpi file and renumber the code page to make your own fonts with their own identifiers. You can always reload the default font.
7:49 actually cheapest wicks are also good because what makes wick wick is its ability to suck solder. I do solution of rosin (colophon) in IPA or denatured alcohol (depends on amount, ipa isn't thah cheap) and first submerge wick in this solution. When it soaks it is ready to be used. And yeah, this solution might be dirty (in both senses) but it does its job just fine and is suitable for work like this.
Nice great video
huh. that was the shortest Adrian's video ever...
Wow - a quick 2nd channel video! What next? A mail call video of ~45mins? 😜
Anyhoo, this tinning the edge-connect fingers seems to be the best solution to the oxidation in the short term - _with the materials at hand_
- There is the usual grumbling that this solution is flawed (see above) - Someone suggested plating with elemental Tin - I expect that is nearly as prohibitively expensive as plating with gold.
- Seems that the ideal, _economical_ solution is to obtain and use Liquid Tin and/or apply dielectric grease.
On top of that, thanks for passing on the tip about using the humble bog-roll as a means of solder wicking! 😂 That's in the vein of using a business card wetted with IPA to clean the head drum of a VCR.
Other handy tips from the comments (thanks ppl! I'm writing this here more as a memory aid for myself, lol)
- Fibreglass pencil to clean/polish edge connectors (better than a pencil eraser, which in itself works well)
- For this type of operation with no Liquid Tin available: Tin some fluxed wick, then wipe the tinned wick (with heat) over the exposed copper
- For this type of operation (if tinning) - Tin, then remove. Then tin again (because some gold will dissolve in the first tinning - thanks @VintageTechFan)
- 63/37 solder
good job , nice save :D
@7:34 Well Akshually... the problem with the cheap stuff is that it doesn't suck.
I believe the call them "Goldfingers"
Better "silver" than dead :)
wouldn't tinning the contacts just oxidize over time causing connection issues
Looks Good
I would have tried liquid tinning. Looks good tho.
be warned, nail polish can crack and fall off easily on pcbs, it doesnt seem to stick, guess how i found out😉 i since use 'plastikote' clear lacquer, other brands likely available? i've even used standard white spirit based wood varnish before...
Instead of sand paper, it's better to use a glass fiber pencil to clean such pins. Works much better, is more precise and easier to use.
3:18 SIR THAT IS A VAPE PEN
Seriously, though, if that's what irons look like now I should really get one, mine is in a box at the bottom of a pile in my storage locker and it's the basic model from Radio Shack.
GOLDFINGER! Oh, sorry, LEAD/TIN FINGER!. Not a good alternative opening for a James Bond movie.
great video but i like the 60 minute videos
Tinning with solder will make it worse in a while! it never works in the mid to long term as lead in the solder gets oxidized over time. While led oxide somehow conductive, its interaction with the edge connector terminals builds other oxidizing chemicals that prevents current flow.
"Freakin' success"?
Freakin' ginormous!
I have a Micro8088 with a tinned connector (gold plating is pretty expensive), but unfortunately, this is the source of the problems. Unfortunately, you cannot "untin" the gold-plated connectors.
Likely works worse the smaller the fingers get. ISA is 0.100" with 0.100" gaps between so it's like a football field of room for imperfection. Definitely not valid for VESA or PCI or whatever micro-connector the Micro8088 must have.
Can you reflow the solder?
@3:53 loving the Arctic Retro vibe going there. You need to go to Norway and visit Tommy.