It would also be a more difficult for repairing as you have to buy a whole solid state jet, instead of replacing a fan or heatsink. So I don't think it's in Framework's interest at the moment.
Way more expensive. I think it will be added to some high end products this year. But don't expect it in medium/low tier hardware any time soon. At least 2-4 years of wait time.
@@korinogaro not only that, I've heard it's not really quite, the pitch of the sound makes it sound louder and more annoying. the tech is cool but they use lithography to etch the patterns. this sounds like its probably multiple times the cost of a fan. I don't think they have got any attention. probably to expensive to be viable.
AirJet Mini has “4.25 W” of net heat dissipation. You’ll need approximately 6 of them for a Framework Laptop 13, also the airjet pro that can dissipate 10.5 Watts.
Because it's expensive, the price should go down significantly when they get upto scale due to how a larger "wafer" make it more economically viable like TVs, because you don't need to use anywhere near the smallest node as the features are on the order of ~100nm at the smallest so you can stick on the same node in perpetuity and just keep increasing the "wafer" size. The same thing used to work for cutting edge nodes where we would move to larger wafers which would make things more economical, but as the tolerences became tighter and tighter as we moved to smaller and smaller nodes wafer uniformity became a massive issue on making wafers larger. But if you on like a 90nm node and your going to be on it for the next 20 years you can learn how to maintain uniformity and it's easier because it's a larger node to begin with.
i honestly hope that Apple doesn't buy Frore Systems, this has so much potential in a handheld or maybe even smartphones. Apple would just slap a cringy "silent Pro fan" and upcharge the MacBook again.
@@oplkfdhgk yeah, even the guy is like "Well, that's only a concern if you REALLY push the machine". What do Macbook people do, spend $3,000 just to surf the internet? Nobody wants to run Photoshop, video encoding, or play video games on these things? I push my laptop to the max after 15 seconds of use.
Apple M chips having fans being loud!? He should try out windows laptops with Intel or AMD with nvidia rtx 4090 mobile it should feel like aircraft fans.
At this point it really just seems like the people at Frore Systems are obsessed with Apple, I hope they arent ignoring other potential avenues like other laptop manufactures, Steam Deck, NVME SSD cooling, a desktop CPU cooler or even a discrete GPU cooler solution.
I want a retrofit kit so badly for my laptop and tablet. Really hope that they sell these units individually and aren't 100% bound to contracts with manufacturers. There will be a whole cottage industry revolutionizing thin-and-light laptops from 3+ years ago squeezing out 20-50% performance gains that were previously unthinkable.
@@christopherfortineux6937 Nah, this will evolve, we have only see stuff in regards lower tdp machines, second gen is supposedly being made to tackle on bigger tdp.
There's a PCWorld video where they tour the lab and discuss stress testing. I think they suggested that they need to pass 2,000 hours of continuous 100% operation at the minimum, but I don't think they've discussed long-term reliability. That being said, my understanding is that since there are technically no moving parts/friction inside of a piezoelectric motor, they should be highly reliable for many cycles. Probably reliability gains are going to be Frore's focus for "Generation 2", though.
I don't think we'll see this in the air linup in a long time, but in the pro lineup it makes a lot of sense and would allow computers like the 14" m3max to perform as they should. The current M3max on the 14" is substantially less powerful than in the 16" due solely to the lower thermal envelope of the smaller chassis.
Bruh just say what you wanna say we'd put it in the pro cause it's silent but the air needs to be a hot box and thermal throttle so we can segment the market
Though Frore's site does have a section dedicated to handheld PCs. "AirJet is a fully self-contained active heat sink module, which is silent, thin, and light. When manufacturers design a Handheld Gaming device with AirJet they cut the noise levels nearly in half, decreasing device skin temperature by 10 or more degrees C - while supporting the full 15 Watts sustained processor power."
I know it is not really logical but why not use the airjet pro on phones? With the gaming phones especially. I would prefer 11w constant power against 5w throttled.
Is there anyway to bring up this tech in an interview with the guys at Dell or even Microsoft or Sony consoles would be killer with these I have a hunch this will be the next thing aslong as the scaling works and it's cheap enough to implement our tech space needs to be pushing these inavations more!
My 2021 Legion 5 Pro may be the last gaming laptop I'll ever own but when they figure 150W+ combined TDP in laptops, the resulting designs will be nuts!
I would like to install those in my gaming laptop. Ironically, my gaming laptop is not used to much demanding games because of the insane fan-noise (I mainly use my gaming desktop PC because it's silent).
This is an interesting cooling solution for laptop computers, that instead of using a traditional heat sink and fan a Frore Systems Airjet is used. The big problem will be convincing laptop manufacturers such as Apple to build their laptops with a Frore Systems Airjet. This laptop cooling system is not an item an end user could install unless they have specialized skills and tools.
@@vyor8837 Watts per CFM may be misleading on its own; The way these devices work is said to improve contact between the air and the cooler, so the same amount should do more work.
They would implement it in the pro and keep the air passive if they were to do anything, because these coolers are expensive and it makes 0 sense to put them in your cheaper product, would mean they would be able to make the MacBook Pro ultra thin.
I wonder about the compatibility with high-end gaming laptops. Add not 3 jetfans, add 12 .. idc ! make it happen. Also, what about servers ? Bigger jetfans or something.
if apple isnt working on it already we can only dream.... this aint happening next 5 years probably or they make their own version... thats the apple way sadly
Intel wrote, "Frore Systems’ AirJet technology offers a new and novel approach to help achieve thin, light, stylish laptop designs that offer great performance while remaining cool and quiet. Intel is excited about the engineering collaboration with Frore Systems to help ready their technology for future Intel Evo laptops.” So Meteor Lake, maybe?
Anything Apple can do to make the devices thinner, they do, partly because of the machined aluminum chassis - it is cheaper for them to have a smaller chassis. I can see this being used in the Macbook Pro several years from now.
Yes, buying the tech and locking it away until they need it for sales. Don't ever see them Implementing this in anything but a pro and that would be a long way out
Any laptop except a macbook would significantly benefit from this , especially the thin and light ones , heck even gaming laptops like zephyrus g14 , m16 could get a lot of gains from this. Probably more realistically content creation focused laptops may prefer to use this cooling system more than gaming laptops .
Maan I'm so captured by this air jet I need it now ! Forget apple I'm bias to windows and have a msi laptop and I need airjets in my machine ! Windows should be the main focus of the airjets in my opinion, as we know they have the biggest and loudest fans in their chasis with minimal benefit and they struggle with battery life, we can only hope the airjets hit the gaming laptop scene SOONER THAN LATER. Macbooks are perfectly fine, they can wait, make windows laptops priority 👍🏾
Apple have to implement this at some poinrt. Windows based PCs will implment this for sure. And, with the new snap dragon chip + this? Apple will have to implement this too. This is the future.
Unfortunately I'm not feeling very optimistic even though the technology itself is quite promising.... 1 of 4 things is likely to happen: 1. (Most optimistic) Everyone already has their designs pretty set in stone, and changing that would take years of R&D but it would come eventually in maybe 3-5 years 2. Apple wouldn't adopt it, since they have been slowly moving away from 3rd party stuff in the first place. But the PC market may get this. 3. Apple does adopt it, but that would change nothing for us. The Air would still be fanless, and the pro would get thinner but the prices would increase to "justify" this change. 4. (worst case) Some company, doesn't matter which but most likely Apple, would buy out this company and the technology would become proprietary. Macs would still get more expensive, just coz they can. I hope they sell it as separate module that the DIY community is able to get their hands on. That would be the best use of the technology, but would it profitable for them is questionable.
There is many questions unanswered. It is cool tech but why there is still no commercial available laptop to buy? How much this solution cost compare to fan and fanless design? If they would sell DIY kit for Air or MacBookPro, how much it would cost? 100 bucks? Add 8 GB of RAM and you are at price of 14" M3 MBP. Reliability is of course also question. It is new tech. You can not put it into macbook to find three years later it is failure. And of course power efficiency compare t o fan. But DIY kit for older MacBook Air and others could be more interesting and price more justified.
It is stunningly hilarious to see a PC media channel promote tech, that has been available for months (6+?), to Apple who could have evaluated the tech and accepted/rejected internally and publicly long before now. I wonder if the non-adaptation is Apple being very cautious with thorough upfront testing, writing the tech off, or glacially slow in their design mod process to incorporate the tech. No way the adoption hasn’t occurred because the tech wasn’t invented by Apple 🤔.
They keep innovating but not delivering. Where are those amazing pieces of tech that can have good power and be slim and cool at the same time. Its certainly possible, but i cant see it anywhere. Edit: Lets not forget, Apple did always hate cooling and they always will.
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Guy on left is wrong about the M2 on the Mac Book Air being the same chip as Mac Book Pro. The Pro Macs have M2 Pro Chips. The Pro Chips have twice as many transistors. The M2 Pro Chips come with two versions the 10 core CPU with 16 GPU cores and the 12 core CPU with 19 GPU cores. To say you get the same performance as the Mac Book Pro on an Air with better cooling isn’t true. Mac Book AiR would be better with cooling than without that cooling for sure.
They're talking about those fake "Pro" models that are really just the base M models like the 13" MacBook Pro, and this what with the base model 14" MacBook Pro that only has an M3.
marketing puff piece nothing unique to the shtjet if I stuffed a vapor chamber and fins into a macbook and shaved down the case I would be accomplishing the same thing waste of time
I hope framework devs are watching. Seems like it would be a match made it heaven for framework.
AirJet Mini has “4.25 W” of net heat dissipation. You’ll need approximately 6 of them for a Framework Laptop 13.
@@KellyWu04Framework isn’t a slim laptop. It could fit a bigger one and wouldn’t be retrofitted
@@KellyWu04 there is also the airjet pro that can dissipate 10.5 Watts.
It would also be a more difficult for repairing as you have to buy a whole solid state jet, instead of replacing a fan or heatsink. So I don't think it's in Framework's interest at the moment.
I would buy any laptop fit with airjets
Surely this would work amazingly with devices like the Steam Deck, VR Headsets with hot displays and even monitors :D. Super interesting !
Not only this, these things also consume less power, so in battery powered devices like the SteamDeck or VR headset, they are revolutionary.
Why is this not in everything already? This is so cool. 3D printer, VR googles and many other can benefit from this.
Way more expensive. I think it will be added to some high end products this year. But don't expect it in medium/low tier hardware any time soon. At least 2-4 years of wait time.
@@korinogaro not only that, I've heard it's not really quite, the pitch of the sound makes it sound louder and more annoying. the tech is cool but they use lithography to etch the patterns. this sounds like its probably multiple times the cost of a fan. I don't think they have got any attention. probably to expensive to be viable.
AirJet Mini has “4.25 W” of net heat dissipation. You’ll need approximately 6 of them for a Framework Laptop 13, also the airjet pro that can dissipate 10.5 Watts.
Because it's expensive, the price should go down significantly when they get upto scale due to how a larger "wafer" make it more economically viable like TVs, because you don't need to use anywhere near the smallest node as the features are on the order of ~100nm at the smallest so you can stick on the same node in perpetuity and just keep increasing the "wafer" size. The same thing used to work for cutting edge nodes where we would move to larger wafers which would make things more economical, but as the tolerences became tighter and tighter as we moved to smaller and smaller nodes wafer uniformity became a massive issue on making wafers larger.
But if you on like a 90nm node and your going to be on it for the next 20 years you can learn how to maintain uniformity and it's easier because it's a larger node to begin with.
i honestly hope that Apple doesn't buy Frore Systems, this has so much potential in a handheld or maybe even smartphones.
Apple would just slap a cringy "silent Pro fan" and upcharge the MacBook again.
Nah
They can't.
Intel already has their hand in
We're all waiting for AirJets in our handhelds, let's go!!!!!
Are you ready to pay 50-70$ more?
How about ROG Ally/Steam Deck modkits?
now that actually makes sense. with macbook i don't really see why you would use it.
@@oplkfdhgk yeah, even the guy is like "Well, that's only a concern if you REALLY push the machine". What do Macbook people do, spend $3,000 just to surf the internet? Nobody wants to run Photoshop, video encoding, or play video games on these things? I push my laptop to the max after 15 seconds of use.
Apple M chips having fans being loud!? He should try out windows laptops with Intel or AMD with nvidia rtx 4090 mobile it should feel like aircraft fans.
Now that the Windows Arm machines are out, this could give the next Air a boost against the benchmarks.
Where to buy it? We've all been waiting this for years!
Someone bring this to the DIY market! Really want to be able to put these in older HP, Dell, and Lenovo systems.
Wow, Macworld / PCWorld collab!
I want to use it in my Precision workstation. Hopefully some solution from Frore becomes available or they make DIY kit to retrofit existing laptops.
At this point it really just seems like the people at Frore Systems are obsessed with Apple, I hope they arent ignoring other potential avenues like other laptop manufactures, Steam Deck, NVME SSD cooling, a desktop CPU cooler or even a discrete GPU cooler solution.
knowing apple they'd just put the airjets into the pro replacing the fans, and leave the air without any active cooling
I want a retrofit kit so badly for my laptop and tablet. Really hope that they sell these units individually and aren't 100% bound to contracts with manufacturers. There will be a whole cottage industry revolutionizing thin-and-light laptops from 3+ years ago squeezing out 20-50% performance gains that were previously unthinkable.
This coolers in a gaming laptop would be so awesome and quiet.
too much heat not possible
You need more power!
@@christopherfortineux6937 Nah, this will evolve, we have only see stuff in regards lower tdp machines, second gen is supposedly being made to tackle on bigger tdp.
suspicious that one of the large computer companies has not purchased out this company.
it'll be the price. also they use lithography to make these. so not easily able to make them fast
air jet air jet air jets.. where is it at ? come on ..just release it !
Is there any report about the reliability of these AirJet's?
There's a PCWorld video where they tour the lab and discuss stress testing. I think they suggested that they need to pass 2,000 hours of continuous 100% operation at the minimum, but I don't think they've discussed long-term reliability. That being said, my understanding is that since there are technically no moving parts/friction inside of a piezoelectric motor, they should be highly reliable for many cycles. Probably reliability gains are going to be Frore's focus for "Generation 2", though.
I don't think we'll see this in the air linup in a long time, but in the pro lineup it makes a lot of sense and would allow computers like the 14" m3max to perform as they should. The current M3max on the 14" is substantially less powerful than in the 16" due solely to the lower thermal envelope of the smaller chassis.
I imagine Lenvovo might be eyeing these for their Legion Slim line as well.
I'd like to see an iPad Pro retrofit with one. Let the M2 actually perform as it ought to.
Bruh just say what you wanna say we'd put it in the pro cause it's silent but the air needs to be a hot box and thermal throttle so we can segment the market
Snapdragon X Elite Laptop ❤
why focus on apple this is best suited for handheld gaming PC's
MacBooks outsell handheld gaming PCs probably by a few factors...
Though Frore's site does have a section dedicated to handheld PCs.
"AirJet is a fully self-contained active heat sink module, which is silent, thin, and light. When manufacturers design a Handheld Gaming device with AirJet they cut the noise levels nearly in half, decreasing device skin temperature by 10 or more degrees C - while supporting the full 15 Watts sustained processor power."
I know it is not really logical but why not use the airjet pro on phones? With the gaming phones especially. I would prefer 11w constant power against 5w throttled.
So it's never coming to the mainstram laptops. Good, Thanks!
what?
Is there anyway to bring up this tech in an interview with the guys at Dell or even Microsoft or Sony consoles would be killer with these I have a hunch this will be the next thing aslong as the scaling works and it's cheap enough to implement our tech space needs to be pushing these inavations more!
I'm waiting for a SBC that uses this tech. It would be awesome.
My 2021 Legion 5 Pro may be the last gaming laptop I'll ever own but when they figure 150W+ combined TDP in laptops, the resulting designs will be nuts!
I would like to install those in my gaming laptop. Ironically, my gaming laptop is not used to much demanding games because of the insane fan-noise (I mainly use my gaming desktop PC because it's silent).
So you're sayiing this amazing little AirJet can wick away heat *AND* still stay sharp enough to slice this tomato?
Are we doing infomercials now?
Forget Apple, pair this with a 7840U.
Is there an air inlet in the MacBook air as well ?
When can enthusiasts buy AirJet pro modules... And pricing for International users??
I want this replace my ceiling fan :)
This is an interesting cooling solution for laptop computers, that instead of using a traditional heat sink and fan a Frore Systems Airjet is used. The big problem will be convincing laptop manufacturers such as Apple to build their laptops with a Frore Systems Airjet. This laptop cooling system is not an item an end user could install unless they have specialized skills and tools.
👍 Nice job Adam
How is Apple not buying out Frore System’s Airjets and/or Patents now?
Right, I expected them to get swallowed by now
How many watts does it use per cfm?
It will
@@vyor8837 Watts per CFM may be misleading on its own; The way these devices work is said to improve contact between the air and the cooler, so the same amount should do more work.
I hope not...
They would implement it in the pro and keep the air passive if they were to do anything, because these coolers are expensive and it makes 0 sense to put them in your cheaper product, would mean they would be able to make the MacBook Pro ultra thin.
Apple will limit air performance in next update 😅
I wonder about the compatibility with high-end gaming laptops. Add not 3 jetfans, add 12 .. idc ! make it happen.
Also, what about servers ? Bigger jetfans or something.
if apple isnt working on it already we can only dream.... this aint happening next 5 years probably or they make their own version... thats the apple way sadly
What about power consumption?
I bet adding those 3 airjets cost 3 times as much as adding a fan
can this method transport liquid also?
I have tried to buy this product in Canada and can't find a single retailer or even online.... sigh
8:24 in the video
When are these coming out already, its taking too long to implement or are they (Frore System) holding out to be bought out??
They could be getting bought out. But their site says they've partnered with Intel, Qualcomm, Phison, and Zotac already.
Intel wrote, "Frore Systems’ AirJet technology offers a new and novel approach to help achieve thin, light, stylish laptop designs that offer great performance while remaining cool and quiet. Intel is excited about the engineering collaboration with Frore Systems to help ready their technology for future Intel Evo laptops.”
So Meteor Lake, maybe?
Integrate this onto gaming laptop! And quickly too!!!
Anything Apple can do to make the devices thinner, they do, partly because of the machined aluminum chassis - it is cheaper for them to have a smaller chassis. I can see this being used in the Macbook Pro several years from now.
Yes, buying the tech and locking it away until they need it for sales. Don't ever see them Implementing this in anything but a pro and that would be a long way out
Why they discuss apple laptops only? I mean any company could implement it.
Any laptop except a macbook would significantly benefit from this , especially the thin and light ones , heck even gaming laptops like zephyrus g14 , m16 could get a lot of gains from this. Probably more realistically content creation focused laptops may prefer to use this cooling system more than gaming laptops .
the airjet pro that can dissipate 10.5 Watts, it's not enough even for a laptop of max 30 watt of power!
@@gregandark8571 I SEE
The MacBook Air can now actually have air flowing through it.
great content but redundant talk - the speed benefits are repeated endlessly - this video could be condensed and saves everyone time ..
MacBook airfree
Maan I'm so captured by this air jet I need it now ! Forget apple I'm bias to windows and have a msi laptop and I need airjets in my machine ! Windows should be the main focus of the airjets in my opinion, as we know they have the biggest and loudest fans in their chasis with minimal benefit and they struggle with battery life, we can only hope the airjets hit the gaming laptop scene SOONER THAN LATER. Macbooks are perfectly fine, they can wait, make windows laptops priority 👍🏾
Apple have to implement this at some poinrt. Windows based PCs will implment this for sure. And, with the new snap dragon chip + this? Apple will have to implement this too. This is the future.
Unfortunately I'm not feeling very optimistic even though the technology itself is quite promising.... 1 of 4 things is likely to happen:
1. (Most optimistic) Everyone already has their designs pretty set in stone, and changing that would take years of R&D but it would come eventually in maybe 3-5 years
2. Apple wouldn't adopt it, since they have been slowly moving away from 3rd party stuff in the first place. But the PC market may get this.
3. Apple does adopt it, but that would change nothing for us. The Air would still be fanless, and the pro would get thinner but the prices would increase to "justify" this change.
4. (worst case) Some company, doesn't matter which but most likely Apple, would buy out this company and the technology would become proprietary. Macs would still get more expensive, just coz they can.
I hope they sell it as separate module that the DIY community is able to get their hands on. That would be the best use of the technology, but would it profitable for them is questionable.
Steam Deck 2?
Apple what are you waiting for!?
When Apple will know they will underclock the Air's M2 just to justify the """Pro"""" scam 💩😂
There is many questions unanswered. It is cool tech but why there is still no commercial available laptop to buy? How much this solution cost compare to fan and fanless design? If they would sell DIY kit for Air or MacBookPro, how much it would cost? 100 bucks? Add 8 GB of RAM and you are at price of 14" M3 MBP. Reliability is of course also question. It is new tech. You can not put it into macbook to find three years later it is failure. And of course power efficiency compare t o fan. But DIY kit for older MacBook Air and others could be more interesting and price more justified.
It is stunningly hilarious to see a PC media channel promote tech, that has been available for months (6+?), to Apple who could have evaluated the tech and accepted/rejected internally and publicly long before now. I wonder if the non-adaptation is Apple being very cautious with thorough upfront testing, writing the tech off, or glacially slow in their design mod process to incorporate the tech. No way the adoption hasn’t occurred because the tech wasn’t invented by Apple 🤔.
Honestly I usually don't care but RUclips's "1080p" has gotten so bad, the artifacting and blocking is actively distracting to video.
0:19
Frore mod services 😊
Awesome
I imagine Apple making their own and calling it airstream 😅
They keep innovating but not delivering. Where are those amazing pieces of tech that can have good power and be slim and cool at the same time. Its certainly possible, but i cant see it anywhere. Edit: Lets not forget, Apple did always hate cooling and they always will.
Bro it takes tome for it to be in laptops, they judt revealed their product 6 months ago. Pretty shure you can wait a year or 2.
Just bothered me the way he was swinging the laptop around while talking.
TAKE MY MONEY😍
Sony too
if apple was smart theyd try to buyout this company asap
It would sell more expensive than the macbook pro lol so… it doesn’t make sense😂
the laptop with the airjet is plugged in. go figure
I stopped watching the video after they revelade the performance gain. From 8200 to 8700 is ~6% by my calculations.
9% Performance gain 😕
Frore had way cooler demos previously.
It's far quieter. The M2 is pretty damn power efficient, so you'll need an Intel or AMD laptop that breaks 40W+ on nT load.
Nice pun.
like Macbook so much: kkk
Cool and all but Apple doesn't care, they never do.
You don't work here, don't write stupid things
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Guy on left is wrong about the M2 on the Mac Book Air being the same chip as Mac Book Pro. The Pro Macs have M2 Pro Chips. The Pro Chips have twice as many transistors. The M2 Pro Chips come with two versions the 10 core CPU with 16 GPU cores and the 12 core CPU with 19 GPU cores. To say you get the same performance as the Mac Book Pro on an Air with better cooling isn’t true. Mac Book AiR would be better with cooling than without that cooling for sure.
WRONG. The 14" & 16" have the M2 Pro & Max, the 13" with M2 is just a Macbook Air with a fan and a touchbar.
They're talking about those fake "Pro" models that are really just the base M models like the 13" MacBook Pro, and this what with the base model 14" MacBook Pro that only has an M3.
marketing puff piece
nothing unique to the shtjet
if I stuffed a vapor chamber and fins into a macbook and shaved down the case I would be accomplishing the same thing
waste of time
Any fan would've been much, much louder. Literally in the video.
Do you even know what you're talking about?
@Intel 🤝 @FutureFarming1
💻 + 🚜 = 🌮 + 🧀🧀🧀🧀