I was recently reading Sproul’s Mark expository commentary and he pointed out that the English word “crisis” is a transliteration of the Greek word for “judgement.” I know there are limits to drawing inferences in modern language, but I think we actually should pause any time someone says we are in a crisis, and try replacing the word with “judgement” … could be a wonderful exercise in perspective that rightly affects our response downstream.
It would be good for Dr. Godfrey to have a discussion with Douglas Wilson. Could they meet in the middle on their emphases as Reformed coming from a different angle?
They could easily find middle ground in these discussions as Wilson is very amiable and brotherly as wells respectful. Thus far they just shun him labeling him in various ways. I think it would be of benefit to Christ's body. They do not see any benefit having had this conversation a time or two with Chris.
What is refreshing is Godfrey's honesty and awareness of certain faults of the Church and himself. He also is aware of the American disdain for complexity. That disdain for complexity is a key reason why we tend to be authoritarian and have trouble finding things to agree on with others. But what is lacking in both Godfrey and especially in Gordon is an awareness of democracy. What both miss in democracy is a certain egalitarianism that is part and parcel to democracy. For example, in his 1801 Inaugural Address, Jefferson noted that though in a democracy, the majority rules the day. He warned the majority against failing to recognize the equal status and equal rights of the minority. That failure leads to oppression. And that awareness of democracy is what is missing in the minds of most of my fellow religiously conservative American Christians. Just as Godfrey opened by saying that we Christians were once intolerant of others and so what goes around comes around, our lack of awareness of what is involved with democracy is what can motivate others to marginalize us more than their objections to what we believe about God would motivate them. If we really understood democracy, we wouldn't miss Christendom and the previous control Christianity had over society. Rather, we would be working side by side with unbelievers so that in stating what we want for society, we would avoid failing to recognize the equal status and rights of all others. And for us at this time, that especially means understanding democracy would mean that we would protect the equal status and rights of the LGBT community in society. And what would it mean to people if we associated protecting the equal status and rights of the LGBT community with preaching repentance to all who sin and the need to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins?
There never was a democracy that didn't eat itself. That's why we were formed as a Republic. We've lost it though. Also, some are so concerned about the 'tyranny of the majority' that they don't think about the tyranny of the minority.
@@billiamnotbob , People say things like that because they want to discredit democracies. Please note what I emphasized when mentioning democracy. And so if you are opposing democracy, are you oppose recognizing all groups as having equal status and equal rights? Also, you will see in some thesauruses that one of the synonyms for democracy is a republic. Why? Because one of the ways implementing a democracy is to have representative one. If you read the founding fathers, they spoke negatively of a direct democracy and pejoratively of those whose ideas they opposed. In fact, what spurred the writing of The Constitution was the widespread dissent over the economy at that time which included Shays Rebellion. Evidence for that can be found in Henry Knox's letter to George Washington. Furthmore, the multiple references to the militia made in The Constitution put the militia under the control of the President, made it dependent on Congress for weapons and training, and one of its purposes was to put down insurrections. The Federalist Papers explain why the founding fathers wanted the gov't to depend on the militia rather than a standing army. Finally, no nation's government has lasted forever, and that will include ours. So your initial statement about democracies can be applied to every form of government.
At 1:00 Godfrey stated "we were intolerant". I guess it is a true historical statement. Would it be because God the creator is intolerant, also Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, Jesus (the truth itself) were intolerant. And what happened to them? Beheaded, crucified, etc. At 1:27 Godfrey: "articulate a vision of society...that says we have to find ways of living together with our mutually exclusive points of view". Is that what the OT prophets, Jesus and the apostles did before the religious leaders of the day? I think we are heading for persecusion, and without convictions and non negotiables on our faith, we shall perish before God.
Abraham Kuyper was a Dutch theologian Abraham Kuyper, (born Oct. 29, 1837, Maassluis, Neth. The CRC in Canada has come out of the Dutch reformed church. Kuyper split off from the main Reformed church in Holland. One of his theological points was Baptismal Regeneration. One is saved by Baptism unless he left the church and the faith. That is why I never joint the Gereformeerde church. I always have been Reformed is called in Holland Hervormed.
Okay so God is intolerant of evil can we all agree on that? Because God is impartial He knows what is good and evil. And if we are to image Christ we push against the things of God and push and move towards the things of God, therefore it requires a godly intolerance. Where we openly condemn evil but actively and even politically engage godliness l.
This is the age of Revelation 17 and 18 in America and the West. Face it. The sooner we understand this, the better prepared we will be. We are being given over to reprobation. If we set our affection on the things above and prepare for persecution as we wait for Jesus and that glorious eternal state, Peter speaks of. 2 Peter 3:8-12. Christ Jesus, the hope of glory. Paul was not speaking about glory in this present dark and evil age.
I was recently reading Sproul’s Mark expository commentary and he pointed out that the English word “crisis” is a transliteration of the Greek word for “judgement.” I know there are limits to drawing inferences in modern language, but I think we actually should pause any time someone says we are in a crisis, and try replacing the word with “judgement” … could be a wonderful exercise in perspective that rightly affects our response downstream.
It would be good for Dr. Godfrey to have a discussion with Douglas Wilson. Could they meet in the middle on their emphases as Reformed coming from a different angle?
Wilson is not Reformed.
They could easily find middle ground in these discussions as Wilson is very amiable and brotherly as wells respectful. Thus far they just shun him labeling him in various ways. I think it would be of benefit to Christ's body. They do not see any benefit having had this conversation a time or two with Chris.
Wilson is an actual heretic and not reformed
So interesting!
“Trust in the LORD, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.” (Psa 37:3, ESV)
What is refreshing is Godfrey's honesty and awareness of certain faults of the Church and himself. He also is aware of the American disdain for complexity. That disdain for complexity is a key reason why we tend to be authoritarian and have trouble finding things to agree on with others.
But what is lacking in both Godfrey and especially in Gordon is an awareness of democracy. What both miss in democracy is a certain egalitarianism that is part and parcel to democracy. For example, in his 1801 Inaugural Address, Jefferson noted that though in a democracy, the majority rules the day. He warned the majority against failing to recognize the equal status and equal rights of the minority. That failure leads to oppression.
And that awareness of democracy is what is missing in the minds of most of my fellow religiously conservative American Christians. Just as Godfrey opened by saying that we Christians were once intolerant of others and so what goes around comes around, our lack of awareness of what is involved with democracy is what can motivate others to marginalize us more than their objections to what we believe about God would motivate them.
If we really understood democracy, we wouldn't miss Christendom and the previous control Christianity had over society. Rather, we would be working side by side with unbelievers so that in stating what we want for society, we would avoid failing to recognize the equal status and rights of all others. And for us at this time, that especially means understanding democracy would mean that we would protect the equal status and rights of the LGBT community in society. And what would it mean to people if we associated protecting the equal status and rights of the LGBT community with preaching repentance to all who sin and the need to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of our sins?
There never was a democracy that didn't eat itself. That's why we were formed as a Republic. We've lost it though. Also, some are so concerned about the 'tyranny of the majority' that they don't think about the tyranny of the minority.
@@billiamnotbob ,
People say things like that because they want to discredit democracies.
Please note what I emphasized when mentioning democracy. And so if you are opposing democracy, are you oppose recognizing all groups as having equal status and equal rights?
Also, you will see in some thesauruses that one of the synonyms for democracy is a republic. Why? Because one of the ways implementing a democracy is to have representative one. If you read the founding fathers, they spoke negatively of a direct democracy and pejoratively of those whose ideas they opposed. In fact, what spurred the writing of The Constitution was the widespread dissent over the economy at that time which included Shays Rebellion. Evidence for that can be found in Henry Knox's letter to George Washington. Furthmore, the multiple references to the militia made in The Constitution put the militia under the control of the President, made it dependent on Congress for weapons and training, and one of its purposes was to put down insurrections. The Federalist Papers explain why the founding fathers wanted the gov't to depend on the militia rather than a standing army.
Finally, no nation's government has lasted forever, and that will include ours. So your initial statement about democracies can be applied to every form of government.
At 1:00 Godfrey stated "we were intolerant". I guess it is a true historical statement. Would it be because God the creator is intolerant, also Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, Jesus (the truth itself) were intolerant. And what happened to them? Beheaded, crucified, etc.
At 1:27 Godfrey: "articulate a vision of society...that says we have to find ways of living together with our mutually exclusive points of view". Is that what the OT prophets, Jesus and the apostles did before the religious leaders of the day?
I think we are heading for persecusion, and without convictions and non negotiables on our faith, we shall perish before God.
Don't all laws impose?
What do I need to look up to learn more about Kyper(sp?) I’ve never heard this name
Abraham Kuyper
@@timothykeith1367 thank you
Abraham Kuyper was a Dutch theologian Abraham Kuyper, (born Oct. 29, 1837, Maassluis, Neth. The CRC in Canada has come out of the Dutch reformed church. Kuyper split off from the main Reformed church in Holland. One of his theological points was Baptismal Regeneration. One is saved by Baptism unless he left the church and the faith. That is why I never joint the Gereformeerde church. I always have been Reformed is called in Holland Hervormed.
Okay so God is intolerant of evil can we all agree on that? Because God is impartial He knows what is good and evil. And if we are to image Christ we push against the things of God and push and move towards the things of God, therefore it requires a godly intolerance. Where we openly condemn evil but actively and even politically engage godliness l.
This is the age of Revelation 17 and 18 in America and the West. Face it. The sooner we understand this, the better prepared we will be. We are being given over to reprobation. If we set our affection on the things above and prepare for persecution as we wait for Jesus and that glorious eternal state, Peter speaks of. 2 Peter 3:8-12. Christ Jesus, the hope of glory. Paul was not speaking about glory in this present dark and evil age.
If this guy was Reformed he would use the Reformed Bible text! In truth his Bible is one approved by the Jesuits! LOL!