How to Analyze Stories: Understanding Narrative Perspective with A.P. Canavan
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Of use to readers, reviewers, and authors, this video (part three of a series) focuses on the ins and outs of narrative perspective as a crucial aspect of storytelling. In this series, A.P. Canavan (@ACriticalDragon) and I share what we’ve learned about analyzing stories over the years. During the series, we will cover various topics, including story versus plot, narrative perspective, characters, setting and world building, symbols, tone and style, and themes. It is our hope that the tools and techniques we discuss will add enjoyment to people’s storytelling journeys.
As ever, Philip, thank you for having this discussion with me.
It might be fun to gather up questions and queries raised over the course of the videos and then do a video at the end to answer viewer questions.
That sounds like an excellent idea, even if it is an idea from the Nemesis and is no doubt part of some nefarious plot!
You begin reading and realize you are being addressed, you are being narrated to. This makes you smile awkwardly, as the situation is unusual. This is happening now. You are being narrated to in the present tense, with literary artifice. It has a defamiliarizing effect, giving you a new perspective on what is in fact being narrated to you: it's a positive comment. You nod with appreciation as you realize this and find yourself on more familiar turf, you are often addressed in comments after all. At the last you realize that the narration is in 2nd person plural, for the narrator tells you this: you, hero and nemesis together, are being addressed, for you are more potent together than you are apart.
The narrator, who is undeniably reliable, informs you that you cover more ground in an hour than his lecturers do in two hours. You now realize the narrator is both intra- and homodiegetic, while you are the narratee(s), the implied reader(s) and the physical reader(s) all at once. You wear many hats. The narrator wears a few also, and tips them all to you.
😂😂😂 Brilliantly done, unnamed and possibly omniscient narrator! How does it feel being omniscient, Kalle?
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy In a word? Witty. It's fun to look under the hood of literature through all this analysis and then try and apply the concepts into your own creative writing to see how they work in practice.
Neither of you are the main character! I am! You are just side characters, the wise old men...who are also goofy who are supposed to advance my hero's journey!
They are not old!
😂😂😂Fortunately, I always wanted to be a wizard, so I’m happy to help you get going on your hero’s journey.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Great! I hope you two will keep up with this series for a long time! I also hope you'll talk about critical lenses! And also, make a video about Ad Astra Scipio to Hanibal!
You guys have a genuinely lovely rapport-that is, given the fact that you guys are nemeses. Anyhow, this was a great chat. I loved the sequential nature and scholarly meticulousness on display here! Cheers!
Thank you, Jordan! Sometimes even nemeses can pretend to be friends. 😁
Awesome! I really like the part about Implied Author at the time of writing compared to the current author/person now. That's a really important distinction and was glad it was brought up. Thanks!
Thank you, Jarrod! I appreciate you watching!
Death of the author is real, apparently they only live five years...
I love this fascinating concept of focalisation. I read Abercrombies First Law and loved the internal focalisation without knowing what it was called. I'm really going to do my best to incorporate this into my writing. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!
It’s our pleasure! Best wishes for much fulfillment from your writing!
Once again; just simply love this, guys 😊❤ Pure gold
I’m so glad you enjoyed the chat! 😊
What wonderful way to start my day! I’ve been enjoying all different flavors of narrative perspective in recent years, from first-person (even present with Red Rising) to second-person with the brilliant Ogres by Adrian Tchaikovsky to all the types of third (recently read one more towards omniscient with Grace of Kings by Ken Liu). It’s helpful to hear the possible effects of each one!
I look forward to reading Dandelion Dynasty and seeing what Liu does with his narrative voice. Cheers, Ben!
I think, I'm looking at the classical nemeses narrative perspective where two competing first person voices, despite the conflict and chaos, still leave the reader with a deeper sense of understanding. Very underrated and very hard to pull off in a perfect manner.😁
😂😂😂 One of the nemeses is an unreliable narrator, and the other wears tweed. 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy 😂😂😂 Hm, does tweed increase reliability? 😁
@@DoUnicornsRead It probably increases chafing... 😁
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd 😁 or a nemesis can't wear it because it gets very itchy
An excellent discussion from which I learned a lot, thank you both. For me, the trouble with authors using present tense to increase immediacy is that it doesn't work. Present tense is distracting and pulls me out of the story in almost every sentence. I am physically holding a book while reading. The story was told and the book was published before I picked it up. I know the book was written in the past. There is zero chance that the story is happening around me right now in real-time. So rather than adding immediacy; present tense instead separates me from the story (sorry, I mean narrative), interrupting every sentence to point out that what I am reading is artificial, and prevents me from becoming immersed. And immersion is what does add immediacy.
To be honest, I feel the same way about present tense. It takes me longer to settle into the story at the least, and I find it immersion breaking even then. I’m glad you enjoyed the discussion!
So grateful for all the free knowledge !
Thanks so much for watching!
Once again, I believe I learned some valuable and useful information. I only hope there is no quiz. Thank you both!
There will be a final exam at the end of the series involving hundreds of multiple choice questions and short essay -- short as in 100 pages. 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy OK, but seat me next to someone smart like Johanna so I can copy. I mean absorb extra intelligence by proximity.
@@BrianBell7 I’m watching you!
I can attest to video games exposing me to a wealth of 2nd person narratives. I love story-rich video games because they necessitate characters with strong agency in their world. Role playing in a text-based adventure game allows for a fantastic amount of agency since I can fill in the gaps with my imagination but also make choices that affect the narrative on paper.
Thanks so much for confirming that - much appreciated!
Enjoyed the discussion very much! 😊
Thank you for watching!
So far, I absolutely love these videos. It's entertaining to hear the back-and-forth teaching from people who are both educated on and passionate about literature. Also, enlightening in ways I truly didn't expect; so many things I've overlooked or just not had the word for that are so important to reading, writing, and just all. Extremely anticipated for next of this series. I genuinely appreciate you two for sharing this for free.
I’m so glad you’re getting some value from this series so far!
Very nice episode. I really liked the part about the difference between unreliable narrators and untrustworthy narrators which lie to you as I find that most people only consider the second one to be an unreliable narrator and it always bugs me when people only consider the second one to be unreliable. I always like whenever the author of a first person or very close third comments on how the characters viewpoint is blinkered in some way and one which always sticks with me is how Alex Verus can't really see how anyone would find his love interest creepy/unsettling and needs to be told by another character.
It’s astounding what authors can accomplish with the right choice of narrator. Thank you for watching!
Such an awesome and informative chat.
Focalization. That's exactly the word I've been looking for to describe my favourite books - books written with a prose style very close to the character's perspective. Abercrombie, as you mentioned, is the absolute master of it IMHO!
I’m so glad the discussion was helpful! Thank you for watching!
Spear Cuts Through Water has also 2nd person and 3rd person and sometimes 1st person. To give an example for changing the narrative besides N.K. Jammison.
The adventure book! It was so long ago I saw an RPG book like that.
I look forward to reading The Spear Cuts Through Water!
Thank you Philip and AP! great video!
I’m very glad you enjoyed the chat, Diego!
Love these videos! Really helps give me some insight for writing my own novel.
I love to hear that since that is our goal!
I just read The Short-Timers and then The Black Company back-to-back and found them quite similar in narrative style, as well as many other aspects.
Excellent timing! I hope you enjoyed them both!
Thank you, this is very informative, as is the whole series. It would be interesting to hear a closer analysis of a passage, or multiple ones, that utilises free indirect speech, to show what effects authors can achieve with it.
And a question: is there a special "category" of narration for works that have a well-defined authorial presence that nevertheless hovers outside of the plot? It seems to have been common in 19th century classics, like Eugene Onegin, or Stendhal's The Red and the Black. The first-person narrator, the author's alter ego, appears in digressions or in addresses to the reader, and has a certain character but doesn't take part in the events, and the overall perspective is omniscient. Does this fall into the same type as the narrative stance of a chronicler, or indeed a scop, like in Beowulf's "we gefrunon", or in Sir Gawain, where the narrator repeatedly says something like "as I've heard, it was this way"?
Hmmm. There are many different wrinkles to this, but it sounds like a first person narrator that mimics a third person narrator and is omniscient. I think! Cheers, Igor!
Thanks men.
Thank you for watching!
I would like to see AP make a video talking in depth about present tense and past tense writing styles and if there is an issue would using a combination of the two instead of sticking to one. I've heard writing advice that said it's a sin to do both and to stick only to one for consistency purposes. But it just feels wrong when i do.
I just read a book, The Judging Eye by Scott Bakker, that is narrated in past tense but switched to present for certain intense scenes. If you can imagine it, you can do it!
AP's facial expressions are hilarious.
Ha ha ha! I could not agree more!
Don't open the door Philip, there's a dragon behind it.
A fireball spewing dragon, no doubt!
One of the oldest legends speaks of the Hope Gu. In this ancient tale, when the world first emerged from chaos, it was a savage wilderness. Amongst the wild beasts that prowled the earth, the first man, Ren Zu, appeared. He ate raw meat and drank blood, eking out a wretched existence.
Among the wild beasts, there existed a fearsome group known as the Predicaments. These creatures craved the flesh of Ren Zu and sought to devour him.
Ren Zu was neither as strong as mountain rock nor equipped with the sharp teeth and claws of the wild beasts. How could he possibly contend with the Predicaments? His food sources were unpredictable, forcing him to hide constantly. He occupied the lowest rung on nature’s food chain, barely scraping by.
It was then that three Gu approached him, proclaiming, “If you sustain us with your life, we shall aid you in overcoming this plight.” With no other options, Ren Zu agreed to their terms.
First, he surrendered his youth to the largest of the three Gu. In return, this Gu bestowed upon him strength.
Armed with strength, Ren Zu’s existence transformed. He secured a steady food supply and defended himself fiercely. He battled valiantly, vanquishing many Predicaments.
Yet, it wasn’t long before he suffered and understood that strength alone was insufficient. Strength required preservation and cultivation, not reckless expenditure. Furthermore, against the entire horde of Predicaments, his strength was insufficient.
Bitterly contemplating this hard-won lesson, Ren Zu decided to offer his prime years to the most beautiful Gu among the trio. Consequently, the second Gu granted him wisdom.
With wisdom, Ren Zu learned to reflect and strategize. He accumulated knowledge, discovering that wisdom often triumphed where brute strength failed. Through the combined power of wisdom and strength, he achieved what had once seemed impossible and slaughtered many Predicaments. He feasted on their meat and drank their blood, surviving with relentless determination.
But fortune is fickle, and Ren Zu aged. This was the inevitable price for sacrificing his youth and middle years to maintain the Strength Gu and Wisdom Gu. With age came the deterioration of his muscles and the slowing of his mind.
“Human, what more can you offer us? You have nothing left to give,” declared the Strength Gu and Wisdom Gu, recognizing his diminished state. They abandoned him.
Devoid of wisdom and strength, Ren Zu found himself surrounded once more by Predicaments. Old and frail, he could neither run nor chew the fruits and plants with his toothless mouth.
As he collapsed, encircled by Predicaments, his heart brimmed with despair. It was then that the third Gu spoke, “Human, take me up. I will aid you in escaping this Predicament.”
Tearfully, Ren Zu responded, “Gu, I have nothing left to give. The Strength Gu and Wisdom Gu have forsaken me. I have only my old age left. Though it pales in worth compared to my youth and middle age, if I give you my old age, my life will end immediately. Even surrounded by Predicaments, I will not die instantly. I wish to live a little longer, even if only for a moment more. So you should leave; I have nothing left to offer you.”
But the Gu replied, “Of the three, my needs are the smallest. Human, if you give me your heart, it will suffice.”
“Then I will give you my heart,” Ren Zu declared. “But Gu, what can you offer in return? In this dire situation, even if the Strength Gu and Wisdom Gu returned to me, it would change nothing.”
Compared to the Strength Gu, this Gu appeared frail, a mere tiny ball of light. Compared to the Wisdom Gu, this one emitted only a dim white glow, lacking any splendor.
Yet, when Ren Zu gave it his heart, the Gu radiated an endless light. Bathed in this light, the Predicaments shrieked in terror: “This is the Hope Gu, retreat! We Predicaments fear hope above all else!”
The Predicaments scattered abruptly. Ren Zu stood speechless, and from that day forward, whenever he faced a Predicament, he offered his heart to hope.
Lovely! Reminds me of Emily Dickinson’s poem “Hope is the thing with feathers.” Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasyI think that was The Legends of Ren Zu, a creation myth in the webnovel Reverend Insanity. It's one of the things I love about this webnovel, the legends has a lot of parallels with the plot, world, and characters.
@@godofthemodernlands Cool! Thank you for letting me know!
Can a story be without one main character?
and what narrative would it be affiliated with?
Definitely! My favorite series of all time, Malazan, has no main character. Such a story would most likely be third person, but you could have a first person story with no main character too, especially if it switches from one narrator to another.
The Arthur pun - had to watch it twice. It was so bad it became good ❤
The rest of the video was good too
The more times you watch the Arthur pun, the better it gets! Well, perhaps there’s a limit to that . . . Thank you for watching!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I'll send you my therapy bill them :)
Funny how Arthur was so confident in the beginning and ending up with more dread at the end...
* coughs *
@@Paul_van_Doleweerd If you come up with more stinkers like that, I’m Gawain to have to block you from the channel.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy At least, for academics, you aren't a couple of bors...
So, you are basically saying that Malazan is third person objective whereas Wheel of time is third omniscient? How can you tell whether it was the right choice of an author to pick either one of these types. I'd love to hear a discussion on third person specifically with examples. I always get confused between the types of third person.
I’d actually say that Malazan and Wheel of Time are both limited omniscient, and they are both third person. They feel different probably because of how much the narrator shares with the reader, but in both cases the narrator shares the inner thoughts of the POV character. We will answer your question more thoroughly during our final video! Cheers!
first person or second person narrators can be boring if we don't like that narrators. It's better to shift POV.
An unreliable narratologist?
😂😂😂 A diabolically unreliable narratologist.