*IMPORTANT UPDATED COMMENT:* For those of you saying that I said the woman in this video is wrong for not having s*x with the man, I cannot help you. Not once do I say any such thing. The personal story I relay in this very video is about me doing precisely what this woman did: Rejecting s*xual advances from a man who provided me with free accommodation; the difference being we were friends (who had, importantly, established a basis of mutual respect and humanisation beforehand) and worked through it openly and honestly after the fact, meaning that nothing ended up on TikTok and nobody felt lied to, manipulated or unsafe. Friendship, importantly, provides space for reconciliation, mistakes, and - just as importantly - forgiveness. *Please stop projecting* whatever ideology or personal politics onto what I am actually, word for word, saying. What I _do_ say is that both parties are in the wrong for not communicating what their very different, transactional interpretations and expectations of the relationship and cross-country trip were before everything that we regrettably got to see transpired. *ORIGINAL COMMENT:* Who do you think is in the wrong? Thank you so much for watching, brethren.
It's always been a sleazy world, but I think I get what u mean, the sheer quantity of garbage / spam voyer cam shit, etc, even a lot of us can only take that so far. I guess it's more exciting for some people, literally the voyer part, it's complicated freudian cousin lovin scientology I'd rather not understand, the bottom line is, you gotta sort through thousands of salesmen peddaling links to other social media before finding an actual person, then if you're excited to finally meet a real person you like, they'll probly block you if you just show up spamming them XD I have some experience with this, I know women deal with lot of additional crap from family and such, just don't feel like it's all over forever. Even the few real people I have met and who didn't get spooked by it have made all the difference on some level
@@niggasgang8784 if you want the right answer.. you need the right question first, similar logic, I agree. I can only blame someone so much for being confused, or sensitive after a bad relationship, but yeah, not knowing ur own motives.. it's caused much worse problems than this, I'll tell ya ;)
my whole life my mom drilled the idea into me “don’t accept gifts.. because they WILL expect something in return!“ -mainly with men. - “you don’t want to owe anyone anything, they will hold it over your head” . yes quickly found out that’s true in most cases.
same my dad also told my sisters and I from early "if you want something (material) you can come to me or your family members" bcos theyre only ones who won't expect anything except a "thank you" from us in return. I see what that guy in the intro did everywhere with ppl trying to buy girls and I'm not with it tbh
Yup. Never let the guy pay the bill after a date if you dont intend to see him again because he's quite likely to call you a freeloading pricktease behind your back. Also because you shouldn't be eating at a strangers expense. I feel very uncomfortable when the guy insists on paying instead of splitting. But some men take it personally.
My grandfather taught me that as well. He said to never let a man pay for anything until after he's met your family. That's why introducing men to fathers is important. They need to be called out on their shit right away by another man to realize they are either in or not.
Don't fly out a woman you barely know and expect things to go well. And no, chatting with her on the internet does not mean he knows her. He spent $5,000 on a complete stranger. Just hire an escort if you want guaranteed sex. Putting her on blast on the internet didn't help anything, just made him look more pathetic.
I think, to be a little fairer, everyone in these comments is ignoring the important contextual fact that it is dangerous to be 100% upfront and clear about sex work agreements in the US. SWIM who does actual escort work still only communicates in very strong implications rather than totally explicit agreements. Uncle Sam is as much at fault for this situation as either the man or the woman.
This is the reason I do coffee or park dates when I first meet someone. There’s no reason why a man should expect sex on a first date. And there’s no reason a woman should expect a man to spend a lot of money on a first date.
Id be wary of anyone who didnt want sex either on a first date or early in the dating process. It would mean they either just arent attracted, or think of sex as something to trade. Really you shouldnt be dating someone you dont already know and like
@bobbrian6526 Sex is about intimacy. Trust is hard to earn so quickly, and vulnerable things like sex should come with time and patience. It's normal to feel desire, but no one should be a slave to their urges.
@@bobbrian6526 Why are you wary? Attraction and trust take time to build. It sounds as if you just want to pump and dump. In any case don't men despise women who have sex very early on? Sex has greater risks for a woman; she should be more cautious. I'd be VERY wary of a man who expects sex on a first date.
@@rejectionisprotection4448 yes I agree. I would never go out with any guy who thought he was entitled to sex, especially early in the relationship. We don't know each other. I'm not going to take on the risk of catching venereal diseases, having an unplanned pregnancy, needing to pay for an abortion, and the threat of sexual assault for a guy who is still a relative stranger. Not to mention, dudes who want to rush into sex are usually terrible at sex because they don't care about building any kind of growing sexual tension with their partner, so there's also that.
Sex can be part of love. Consensual sex can be a very enjoyable mixture of intimacy and fun imo. It's just that sex can't be the basis or even cause of love, especially with a stranger, not matter how attraktive they are.
Very feminine point of view. You cannot understand men's needs so you project them as evil lust. Also you are completely fine with being manipulative to extort men;s resources.
That guy at the beginning is scary, she's sitting there because he's blocking the door, he said "you can leave" and she immediately started to leave so he's like "no wait a minute", just a scary dude that I'd never want to be stuck alone in a room with if he wanted something from me. Acting like a child in a grown man's body.
@@mrtyrant1680 he shouldn’t have gotten into a situation where he would be pissed in the first place. He shouldn’t have lavished all that money on her without establishing trust and a reciprocal relationship. The fact that he did that so he could have sex with a model, and she refused; he should not have had those expectations in the first place. It was wrong of her to lead him on (assuming she did) but she does not owe anyone access to her body.
Men need to stop equating money spent in dates with sex. Especially when they complain about high body counts, non-virgins and single moms (who had to have sex in order to get pregnant). Also, don’t spend money you don’t have. That’s for everyone.
As a guy that has had some very bad dating experiences, I can honestly say that the best friendships I've ever had were with women. Unlike men, they aren't constantly trying to compete with you and they don't get uncomfortable or mock you when you open up about sensitive topics. They were basically the platonic equivalent of everything I imagined romantic 'relationships' to be before I became disillusioned with dating. I think it is these friendships that prevented me from being sucked down the manosphere/black-pill whirlpool. If the only interactions you have with people are in the context of a transactional market, you're probably going to start seeing them as commodities rather than people.
You can call it what you want. If you want to think of it as a marketplace, then the laws of Supply and Demand still apply. Naturally, the value of the marketplace will trend upwards, but there will still be recessions and downturns from time to time. You can't beat the market, but if you invest early then you will have a better chance of reaping rewards later. Women mature faster than men. Go figure.
You are a safe, beta orbiter to your female friends. Embrace the "compete." You don't need to win, but you will gain respect and friendship from your fellow men in whatever field of competition you choose. My friends and I have gone to the wall for each other...no woman outside of your mother or (maybe) wife will ever stick their neck out for you.
I've noticed that in a situation where a woman SEEMS to be unclear about the messages she's giving out, she gets heavily criticised and is told that she should've been clear and direct and "got what she deserved". But when a man is DELIBERATELY unclear, as in this situation, then he gets a free pass and isn't expected to be accountable. Sheesh.
Yup they say accountability is a Morden women kryptonite but when it’s a male he’s ‘confused’ and ‘ taking things slow’. This is why they blame women for the friendzone bs!!
@@missandry2669 Accountability has always been a male kryptonite. The thing with modern men is they project all of their toxic masculine flaws onto women. And it's painfully obvious.
No ill will towards any gender; I just think this “sexual marketplace” stuff has fried a lot of people’s brains, and it’s becoming easier and easier to know who sees me as an actual person deserving of love and respect, and who sees me as a convenient tool, trophy, or toy. There’s way more of the latter these days, so I don’t really feel too bad about dropping out of dating.
As a Dutch woman this is absolutely insane. When we go on a date, especially the first date, we split the bill. This is because we are equals, we do not like being viewed as less in any way. When you really like each other you will take turns paying for dates. The idea that I would demand someone 'put out' because I paid for the date is just bonkers. It reeks of disrespect and gives off the idea that dating equals prostitution.
Men and women are equal but very different. Hence why the man pays and it does not then make the woman less. We can be equal on top of acknowledging nuances between men and women it’s in our biology.
@@lialifts We do but we don't want it under the pretense that something sexual will happen. A lot of men aren't traditional anymore despite them wanting to go back to the "good ol' days," because back then a lot of courting happened and it wasn't sex-based either.
While I think it’s dishonest to let someone spend huge sums of money on you if you have no intentions of giving them what they expect and not communicating what you’re in for, ultimately the guy is in the wrong. People have the right to withdraw consent at any point. What if she was genuinely interested but didn’t feel attracted to him when they met in person? She wasn’t a sex worker, that was “a date” (an expensive one), you don’t get to act like you were purchasing a product if that wasn’t an explicit agreement
Direct quote from the TikTok: W: I don't have to **** you though. M: *I ain't saying you did.* W: I just came to have a good time. M: *You knew what it was though. You knew what it was.* What I got from it is that he isn't saying she can't withdraw consent. He's saying that he feels lied to and cheated out of what he was led to believe he'd be expecting based on the conversations they'd had on Instagram "for months". He is most definitely in the wrong. That doesn't, however, negate from her being wrong from her vantage point knowing all too well that she wasn't going to sleep with him the whole time (which would have meant him not flying her out and paying for their trip), nor does it negate from him being an idiot who only has himself to blame. He created the situation and must take responsibility for it - life's tough. He is most definitely not entitled to sex. Approaching relationships from a market-based mentality leads to people believing that they are entitled to either (in her case) having a man spend thousands of dollars on me because modern society says I have high S.M.V [as an Instagram model] or (in his case) having women sleep with me because I've demonstrated that I'm a high value male re. my money and lifestyle. Both parties feel entitled to something. Her "entitlements" were met and his, clearly, weren't. As I said, life's tough and I don't feel sorry for him.
@@KidologyCO I think it is an asshole move on her part and I get his frustration. My problem with this argument is that if she were interested and then changed her mind, there would be no dishonesty on her part, and the guy would still flip out. Because he doesn’t understand or accept that consent can be withdraw at anytime.
@@ludmilamaiolini6811 although I understand your argument and I agree. The problem is there are too many bad actors -men and women- I’ve seen plenty of women use your exact argument to exploit lonely men for expensive gifts, dinners and trips. To me this mindset is best exhibited by the social media girls that flirt or show interest in men that live in cities they want to travel to and arrange to be flown out for a “romantic” or “sexual” weekend. Only to then display little to no interest when they arrive.
@@burningice15 there are certainly people who exploit that, but that doesn’t mean consent is up to discussion. I don’t disagree about the sexual market analysis, I just think it was important to point out that the situation could happen without bad faith. Perhaps a way to solve the issue would be to make these people pay for their own trips, or at least half. Or sign a contract saying that they are doing paid sex work and if they don’t want to go through, they have to reimburse their clients 😅
@@ludmilamaiolini6811 this is why men have transitioned from dinner dates to walk in the park ones. Some women are mad about it but it’s their sister’s fault for taking advantage of well intentioned men
I sometimes feel weird for wanting a potential relationship to grow out of a friendship first. I think relationships that start from that friendship basis are much stronger, and as someone who isn't quick to trust others, if I have already known someone for a long time as a friend I would also feel a lot more comfortable to perhaps explore something beyond that. That really doesn't seem to be the norm nowadays.
@@blevota7391 wow, I literally have no way to understand this point of view. It’s unfathomable to me. Could you explain this? I’d love to hear more about this
@@blevota7391 i would honestly like that but life has so far proven that to be impossible for me. With me the friendship grows out of love for one another.
I grew up thinking that that's how it works in most cases. And my demisexaulity makes it especially difficult for me. I won't know wether or not i'm attracted to you yet after only the first date...
I feel exactly the same way. It makes dating seem a lot more daunting because your options are more limited, but I don’t feel that way right away either.
When dating, my approach was to send a "risky" text during the talking stage. If she responded with the same energy, I knew I was good to go, and it would just naturally escalate from there. If she shut it down then I would just drop it, apologize, and move on. If she said she liked me but wasn't there yet, then I would just give it time and not push it. This approach has always worked well for me and, it was a way to let them know my intentions, without being too direct. I am a very "go with the flow" type of person, don't like to force things. I see a lot of younger men struggle with this. They are either too direct, so they come off as creeps. Or they don't communicate their intentions at all, and basically try to trick or bribe women into sleeping with them.
@@LilithsCosmicLounge sounds like men should just have sex with each other then... keep 'their' women 'pure' and they gets to have sex with no responsibilities attached. It's a win win /s
@Lilith’s Moon🌓 yeah in our yearly manosphear meeting, " virgin not being worth it" was above the andrew tate speech and under how do we make single moms ( sarcasm)
You can call it what you want. If you want to think of it as a marketplace, then the laws of Supply and Demand still apply. Naturally, the value of the marketplace will trend upwards, but there will still be recessions and downturns from time to time. You can't beat the market, but if you invest early then you will have a better chance of reaping rewards later. Women mature faster than men. Go figure.
@@LilithsCosmicLounge "fell for it"- wanted to have sex too. But instead of having a mature sexually aware population we decided to punish each other for perceived slights.
I think a lot of it comes down to communication. People either don't know what they want so they can't express it, or they do know what they want but expressing it risks them being rejected (i.e. dude wanted sex but probably thought saying that straight out in the beginning would have led to the girl saying no to coming at all; girl wanted a free vacation but knew saying she wouldn't fuck would make the dude not get her flewed out)
I think both knew what the other person wanted. He wanted sex. She wanted pictures and videos in a luxurious environment and putting it of and avoid the sex all together. He knew there was a risk of wasting his money. They are both playing games. He is trying to save face by puting that rant on the interwebs.
Yes, he should have told her he wanted sex and she could have said yes or no. Or she could have said I won’t guarantee sex but I do want to meet and spend time. Then they could have decided. But nope didn’t happen that way. He assumed she would know he wanted sex. And she wanted to get a free vacay and most likely knew he wanted sex but wanted to do her own thing. I would have told straight up. I want to go have fun but I ain’t promising the kitty Kat. Lmao 😂
The irony of all this is that they both got not what they wanted, but what they deserved. In the end, dating is a very old dance that follows a two step forward and one step back routine. If you violate that basic principle, you will sit down.
He chose to waste those 5k. That's on him. Unless he told her "I'm paying you this with the condition that you'll have sex with me" then he can't blame her for anything. No person owes sex to other, and no person is entitled to sex. People can spend all the money they want but that doesn't grant them anything.
so happy so no one is entutled to being helped right base off this so someone can walk away from anyone without helping them and it wont be wrong right
This market way of thinking has always made me so wary of letting anyone pay for me. In any context, not just romantic, etc. I never want anyone holding something over my head and being made to feel I "owe" anyone something I am not willing to give. I'm nervous about any (potential) future offers for dates for this reason... It just sucks, man.
I feel like it happens all the time to almost every girl. I'm not even really attractive, but years ago (around 10 years ago) I went on a couple of dates with a couple of guys, and while I wasn't necessarily interested in a relationship at that point and first off I just wanted to get to know them better before I decide anything (you know, just some human to human interaction) I had this constant feeling that on every date they expected something from me, something more. I'm not saying they were counting on having seggz with me there and then, but I could feel that on second or even first date they already wanted me to let them know whether I want to be their girlfriend or not. It gave off vibes of "tell me asap because if not then I don't know if you're worth my time and energy". Chill out, my dudes, I just wanted to get to know you a bit. It really feels like a hunt, or a twisted transaction, like we are girl machines where guys put their coins in, and expect us to immediately give them something (disproportionely bigger) in return. What happened to simply getting to know each other and naturally slowly falling in love the more you know the other person?
@@xXNekou You say you're not conventionally attractive, so that would mean you went out with guys who were also not attractive. Are you sure about this, because they must have been at least above average in looks.
I can see complaining to your friends about the situation but this is wild. He played himself, she played along. They are both goofy but his inability to accept his L was sickening.
@@Ynh932 we are analyzing these socieatal interactions instead of saying this so how it is and just accepting life. We can say hey this is wrong and perhaps get better results. Now I have no idea why you are talking about being broken and crying or visualizing the perfect relationship. I can only assume this is from projection?
@@Ynh932 is that not societal interactions? You are the one who try to project onto me about being broken hearted and now dumb. Your aggression is just proving your projection
@@Ynh932Honestly when I hung out with guys that weren't my friend I genuinely didn't know there were expectations like you said "oh if he invites you to his house it's because he wants to have sex or something", I honestly wouldn't think much of it lol it's such a shame that everything has to be sexual
I don't agree that the two people in the opening clip deserve each other. That man was scary, reminds me of my abusive ex. We were in a relationship when he flew me out from London to New York, and because of this financial expense he expected me to obey his every command like a slave and he screamed at me when I said no. I had to call the police, it was terrifying. These men who fly out girls are often not honest about their expectations, and they use money to manipulate and coerce women into sex. It's not an equal give and take at all. Also, I cannot stress how dehumanising it is to have a man (whether you know him or not) expect sex immediately when you have got off a long flight and just touched down and want nothing more than to decompress. We cannot just assume that because a woman is attractive, she is a deceptive user. She may have actually really liked him, and got turned off by his behaviour irl. These guys online don't exactly message saying "so if I fly you out, will you immediately have sex with me as much as I want or nah?" They are not honest. I hope she is okay, because she put herself in danger.
this! It’s pure misogynoir and kidology not tracking that harm makes me worried for her - like how can you watch this and not be kinda worried for this woman????? I hope she’s safe and with people who love her cause he was abusive asf when he didn’t get sex…that’s a rapist
A man who is effectively a stranger who couldn't possibly be interested in to you in a person flies you out he obviously wants sex. To think otherwise is being intentionally obtuse. No disrespect to your terrible experience with manipulative men. But you're projecting your trauma on people you don't even know. Please see a therapist.
@@SnakeTheHat he said she had been talking with him for months - so as far as I’m concerned, that is not a stranger that is a man who wants to have sex with you and won’t say, and then feels entitled because he didn’t seemingly pay enough to get access to you
This is a really good take. She definitely put herself in an unsafe position. No doubt. However, this dude thought he was slick. He wanted the escort experience but likely didn’t want to pay for a real escort due to the ego hit. Why was he spending all that money on “unspoken agreements?” What mature person does that? It’s not at all that hard to imagine that she met him and he was a gross character with poor social skills. His personality irl could have been a huge turn-off. Or she got there and changed her mind for some other reason, which is her right to do because she was not a hired professional. She was on a date. It’s so confusing why people who want transactional relationships don’t just hire a professional with contracts and terms clearly negotiated. Otherwise, a person is not obligated to do anything for you no matter what you’ve done or given them. Keeping it real, even professionals can change their mind and offer a refund. I’ve heard of it happening. Why is this so hard for an adult to understand? If you want a transaction, hire a professional. Period.
Yeah when I sleep over at my friend's houses no one expects sex for it. Sometimes is wrong if you think that's normal 😂 or is couchsurfing just escorting? I'd rather pay to rent a room
Yes why would my friend expect s3x as payment for me staying at their place. Is friendship not being able to ask or do favors for each other without owing s3x??? I do not understand.
Yeah, Kidology’s “friend” sounds suspect. I have never imagined a situation where a friend of owes me something for staying at my place while traveling. And certainly not s*x.
I rarely comment, but I wish to offer up a different angle. Many people in the comments don’t believe that unconditional love is healthy so wish to offer a clarifying idea. Love and trust are things that go together. Relationships need a foundation of trust to feel emotionally safe. You can trust someone and not love them, and love someone and not trust them. But you need both in a relationship. Unconditional love doesn’t mean unprotected, it means trusting the other person to protect you from themselves. In my humble opinion, unconditional love isn’t achievable without trust. Unconditional love, I think, is when you trust someone so much that you believe that they WONT screw you over and therefore you don’t feel the need to control them or put limitations on them. You don’t need to put limits or control people who control their own actions and a make a conscious effort not to do things that would hurt you. It doesn’t mean a lack of self respect. I wouldn’t even consider a relationship unless I considered the person trustworthy. Trust is the baseline but not a condition. Trust is the foundation to even consider starting a relationship with. if that person cheats, they’ve broken the foundation of trust and therefore the relationship. You cannot have a healthy relationship/ dynamic with someone if it’s not emotionally safe and then someone cheats, you’re no longer emotionally safe and then feel the need to control because you feel out of control. Self respect comes when you walk out of the relationship if they break your trust. If there isn’t trust there cant be anything that isn’t toxic. I’m not saying you should forgive cheating at all from the previous statement. In fact I’m saying the opposite. But remember that you don’t ever have a reason to limit someone who actually cares about you because valuing the relationship means they don’t WANT to betray your trust. Why would you have to limit someone who doesn’t want to go there.
I have to disagree. In my opinion, unconditional love only can exist in a parent-child relationship. Adult relationships are conditional. And I think that's how it should be.
@@RollOnVlogs but he really wanted physical intimacy it seems and he was willing to pay 5k for a girl who he didn't even know would consent, I agree he should've just gotten an escort
Man, this world seriously needs more genuine human connection on an emotional, human level. More of that, less of these games and dehumanizing of both men and women. Thank you Kidology, you are very smart and don't listen to the haters please.
First dates are for getting to know you and seeing if there is a mutual attraction. If he can't affort first dates that are this expensive, he should switch to dating locally and in some cheaper arrangements, such as smaller restaurants, walks in the park etc. There are many women who would be ok with that, but it seems to me that he is not ok with dating those women. He wants to live an illusion of a rich men/beautiful women lifestyle. Which is ok, to each their own, but then you have to be ok with spending money sometimes and not getting anything in return. You can't behave like money means nothing to you the whole time, and then cry over spent money at the end of the night, it's tacky and looks bad. Also, him recording her while she clearly wants to leave is not a normal behavior. There are many girls that don't expect lavish first dates, but these girls are also not investing so much money in their looks because they care to invest their money somewhere else (for instance in their education, business or family). If you want to date girls from a certain culture that is materialistic, and to feel equal to the men that they usually date, you have to pay your fee to sit at that table. You can't just pay your fee to be a part of the table and expect to win every time. No, you just paid a fee to sit at the table, but maybe your hand sucks or your game is bad. She is fully right here. She was open and honest. She offers her looks and her presence. He offers money and flashy things. If they click, they can become a couple. If not, fly her back home without yelling, crying and recording her. If you care so much about your few thousand dollars spent, you can't affort a millionaire lifestyle. Stop pretending you are something you are not and living above your means.
I think we all know why he does what he does. He thinks it makes him look powerful. I actually feel sorry for that guy who thinks he has nothing to offer than his money.
There was always some sort of sexual marketplace. This marketplace of today - could we say that, with all the freedom, it simply became very de-regulated? And surely way too fast to allow making any kind of meaningful connection. Dating apps are meeting apps - if you want something more, you have to do it yourself, as it always was. There's no outsourcing emotional work. As for these two, you said it, they deserve each other. What kind of person (of any gender) offers/accepts that kind of money and perks shower to/from a stranger?
I'm only 5 minutes in but I just can't believe people think they're entitled to intercourse. I say this as a man. I find it so creepy that people think that they are entitled to it just because they've been nice to someone or given someone a place to stay. The 'friend' you reference is a complete creep.
If we're charitable, it could've been a misunderstanding like "oh I thought that you're interested in me since you came to my house and will be staying with me here". Thinking you'll have sex with someone =/= thinking you're entitled to it. Though if it was the second case, yeah, you're right.
@@Wind_Falcon Of course they aren't. But if a woman doesn't feel comfortable about sleeping with you then you aren't entitled to throw a tantrum about it; irrespective of whether you bought her some things. If you're that desperate for intercourse then see a 'lady of the night.'
@@itsmyytaccount8498 I'm not talking and didn't say anything about being entitled to sex though. I'm talking about scamming. Any women that posts provocative pics on the internet (let alone Instagram) and has any sort of even small popularity gets unambiguous money for sex offers. These women know exactly what is going on when wealthy men give them money/gifts/take them to expensive places (just as literally everyone figures this out immediately even from just the smallest details, people aren't idiots). It's a premeditated scam. It's not a case of bad communication like Kidology mistakenly asserts. The woman knows EXACTLY what the man thinks and wants and why he is doing what he does. And these kind of situations are extremely common, even in more simple dating scenarios - women going on dates and expect to have a good time and pay zero for it while knowing the guy has no chance for anything. She should just not go on such dates, or pay her portion of the bill herself, not scam the guy. I'm also trying to think of other examples where you get scammed. IMO if someone scammed you on the street you can kick their ass. But even if not going that far, you can certainly kick up a stink. I mean people go ballistic in supermarkets, restaurants or when their phone company does something shitty. How is it not OK for someone that intentionally scammed you not to get an earful and to get the fear of god shouted into them? In every other case its seen as OK and justified, but if a woman leads on, manipulates and scams a man, than he's the immature one for going ballistic? That's an outright sexist view. It's these sorts of attitudes exactly that breed this type of garbage women and resentful men. If there are no consequences, not even some yelling - what's stopping this behaviour then? I don't get why you would even defend her/this type of women. Some misplaced female solidarity? She's a horrible human being, why extend her that? I agree with you on the last point though, I don't get why these rich dudes don't just get nice prostitutes or wow some wall fly simple plain poor girl which will absolutely worship any such guy that gives her attention.
I flew a woman over to meet with me once. I paid her airfare, all her expenses while here and a week of her salsry. We both understood the situation and were on the same page. I think you have to be direct in these situations.
@@vettie Exactly. However I will say that the woman is only wrong for not making her intentions clear therefore being manipulative. The man decided to pay for expensive food and stuff, and being entitled to sex from a stranger is wild.
And this is perfect. Consenting adults who are communicating expectations. I hear men say all the time in "jokes" that if he told a woman he only wanted sex or expected sex at x time she wouldn't give him the time of day. Maybe that was the case at one point but it's not true anymore.
But marriage and sex was always marketized. I mean, I agree that capitalism is perking up this aspect many notches, but romantic love and selfless love, that is not about bringing together two properties or two businesses is kinda new. Even the poorest of families that married off their daughters expected something out of it. And if marriages is a contract, sex was always an unspoken but sure item on the list. To me it seems like it is just more honest, more in the open. The ugly is not covered up by talks of heavenly unions.
It feels reflective of the ideology of the present society to say "well it was always commodetized/marketized" - even if there is an element of truth to it. Ideologies tend to justify their existence historically, in the form of the myth that, even if people didn't see it, the way things are is how they always were and always will be. I don't think it's accurate to negate that as an element of the past. Sex and love have never been purely aesthetic categories. But I do think it's fair to say that one of the things that has changed is that we have removed many forces and beliefs (societal, religious, and communal) that would have acted as a counterbalance to "relation purely as market transaction". I'm sure people will disagree with me on this one, but I really think that this idea that "well, it was always this way" is more resignation to the present structure than affirmation of truth.
It’s always been, I think technology makes us think we can just skip out on actual communication entirely and just assume the other assumes they know what they’re thinking.
One common misconception It was the reverse in a lot of the lower strata of traditional societies. The family with the daughter actually had to pay to the family with the son because the daughter constituted another mouth to feed that wasn't as productive as a male. The original story of Santa Clause was him providing gifts to a family with three girls that was too poor to marry them off.
@@chadmwilliams89 Not as productive? In what way? I'd imagine that she'd be assisting her husband in whatever work he was doing until she became pregnant. How can having a family not be seen as productive?
as someone raised in a conservative environment, I absolutely hate both traditional marriage and dating apps. Furthermore, I have trouble finding a realistic way (that I approve of) of finding a partner. people sometimes say: "my partner is my best friend" you said as well: "befriend your partner before you descend into consuming" but how realistic is it, that two people fall into friendship and then love without indulging their desires? it's basically fantasy, and for that reason, I'm very nihilistic when it comes to love and relationships. I wouldn't call myself an incel, not at all but the only time I tried confessing my feelings to a friend, it blew up in my face and in retrospect, I don't know how it couldn't. it's just statistically unlikely for two people to have the same feelings for each other at the same rate.
You can be close friends and also give into your desires. That’s the hope in finding consummate love: passion, intimacy, and commitment. I’m sorry that your forays into romance went to badly. I just want you to know that humans are built to form connections and to love each other. It’s possible to find people out that you click with. Just keep searching, and stay true to yourself, your values, and convictions.
The best way in my opinion is a mix for traditional and modern ways of courting/dating. If you are a man you should be crystal clear with what you want and need from the very beginning. Be a confident flirt but at the same time respectful. I also disagree with the notion of being a friend first and then turn it into romance. Romantic and sexual intentions should be crystal clear to the other party from the get go. If she is fine with that you can go to the next phase which is the courting. In my opinion it's best to avoid sex for atleast 6 months in order to first bond with the person in a more spiritual level. Get to know them deeper as a human being first. Once familiarity, trust and comfort is established you can proceed to bonding sexually as well. I think that's the best way. (Waiting till marriage in most cases can be as disastrous as sex on the first date. Avoid the extremes I guess)
Unless the first thing you think when you meet is "wow he/she is hot" no relationship can ever happen. My best friend is my partner, we met online and later in person. He used to live in a different city, too far fo a relationship so we were just friends for the longest time but I always thought of him as handsome. Once you get to know someone, love them and they're also attractive that's all you need.
@@Alwaysttango Agreed that there needs to be attraction. A question for you. Let's say you meet a guy and you are attracted to him and all his other qualities are great too. You get together, form a serious relationship. And after 2-3 years he starts balding. Suddenly you aren't physically attracted to him anymore. What do you do? Do you think you have the right to break up for such a reason? I have the controversial opinion that you have every right no matter how shallow it seems. Cause physical attraction isn't something we can control. What's your opinion?
>”but how realistic is it, that two people fall into friendship and then love without indulging their desires?” Omg dear, but this is not fantasy at all! Thats EXACTLY what drives me crazy nowadays! People just seem to have forgotten the fact that for a very long time up until a couple years ago, most of relationships (in western culture at least) were created exactly like this... i clearly remember dating apps were for rather older people (think widowed, after divorces etc, where its not so easy to "jump" back in), or people with some living situations/issues/whatever that could not meet people outside. If anyone at my highschool used a dating app we would think they're crazy, and i graduated hs 9 years ago, so NOT ages ago lol. Me and my friends always had boyfriends that we'd known before - from work, via friends, through an event etc - that we befriended first. Sure maybe some flirtation thrown there and there in some cases, but besides that - just meeting them on parties with other friends, texting and so on! The "talking" phase - and one that is NOT focused on romance solely!! - is so, so important... And this also prevents this weird type of situation that dating apps provide - when the person you meet is completely detached from your natural surroundings - friends, coworkers, family, neighbors, whatever. And there comes that weird moment where you get to know their friends, and you feel like a total loner/weirdo sitting down with them. Like wtf!? The notion of going straight to the romance phase is ABSOLUTELY INSANE to me. I could NOT imagine meeting someone, jumping into relationship first and then getting to know them basically?!? How do you all even BUILD TRUST SO EASILY? 😵💫 And besides that, if such person has some concerning habits or history, they can completely hide it when you meet them via an app! I need to know there is SOMEONE that is not them that has been able to kinda observe and interact with that person before me & who would simply TELL ME if they knew there were any red flags! please dont let this whole insanity get to your head, people are creating relationships organically and its the normal and healthy way. /rant
It's perfectly fine if a person no longer wants sex in their long-term relationship. However at the same time, it's a bit unfair if that person then demands that their partner be forbidden from seeking it elsewhere (if that partner still desires it.) If a satisfying compromise and/or alternate arrangements cannot be reached, then I don't view it as artificial or shallow to call it quits. You can love and respect someone, but yet still have needs that are no longer in alignment.
Its totally fine to open a relationship but maybe first do some research on why the other partner does not want to have sex anymore and work on that before you quickly demand to seek sex elsewhere.
At first you need to talk about why the other person doesn't want sex. Are they not getting anything from it? If the sex is good, most people don't turn it down. Or maybe the partner is depressed or has health problems that need to be addressed? Work as a couple before going with open realationship, they rarely work out.
@@Laura-gd4ku nobody said leave immediately jfc but if your partner suddenly refuses any sex and demands that you suck it up, there's a huge problem with that. and yes, communicate but if the nonsex partner refuses to look at any compromise then you don't have a lot of remaining options. no one should be forced into celibacy by their partner.
@@megsley I am not assuming thats what you meant, I just wanted to add that to your comment. Because Ive seen it that (mostly men) partners are not willing to adress issues in the bedroom and then it becomes a dead bedroom because one side is not willing to put in work and than demands to have sex (usually in a very convient way for them) outside of the relationship.
Love you kid. Your videos are always engaging and the comment section is usually a place I feel like I can hear reasonable people give their opinions and I don't care about their personal political identification.
13:45 I agree 100% with this. I was taught at a younger age that what I should look for in a person romantically is what’s in their heart, and how they treat other people. Society teaches us to look at their appearance, social status, income, political affiliation etc. instead and it’s sad to see.
I totally agree. All my relationships stemmed from friendships. I knew these guys for months, if not years, before we started dating. I don't remember ever being attracted to someone that I didn't know, just based on seeing them pass me by. Which is why dating apps aren't doing anything for me.
I don’t feel she’s in the wrong at all. He basically offered her multiple expensive dates. Effort and gifts don’t equate to a right of intimacy. Not to mention if certain men are going to act like 5k is ‘nothing’ to them. He had ulterior motives and she decided to take him up on his offer. It was their first time meeting, maybe she realized she wasn’t attracted to him? Who knows. If men are going to pretend to like women to get s€x then they shouldn’t be surprised when women run their own game on them. He took a risk at the end of the day and it’s his fault.🤷🏽♀️
yeah but nah. She knew the deal and what he was expecting, so she played him. he has every right to be angry. he doesnt have a right to sex if she says no, or to be violent, but he has every right to be angry
I think the part where she is in the wrong is, you have to delusional to think a guy is willing to do all that for nothing in return. She most definitely knew he'd want sex in return but still went along with because she wanted to be spoiled. She also could've clarified before all this by telling him not to expect sex, but again, she most probably knew he'd lose interest in her and not give her all the luxury. Yes, the guy is definitely the biggest clown here, but she put herself in an obviously shitty situation, and maybe even a dangerous situation if this clown turned out to be a psychopath. They're definitely not equally wrong becausethe guy is a total dumbass lmao
@@bobbrian6526 He can be upset, anyone can be upset about anything. He can’t help how he feels. However, the problem is how he chose to express those feelings and it still doesn’t make the situation her fault. He made assumptions. Communication is key. Should women start denying dates and offers because a man *may* expect sex? Key word is expect because as women we know men want sex regardless. Sex isn’t implied by effort. Before every date should we say, “Hey before you spend money and effort on me I should let you know I don’t want to have sex with you at this moment”.
She basically beat him at his own game. Which makes me wonder, why don't these men pay for actual hœkers instead? That's clear cut and very transactional and he would never have problems like this.
@@bobbrian6526 I'm not sure that it's universal knowledge that if a man takes you on a trip and gives you gifts, that he's expecting sex following the first date/meeting. Maybe she thought it was the beginning of a courtship. But nope, another stunted fellow who is not able to partake in the process of meeting and forming a relationship with a person organically.
the whole idea of men paying for dates and shit made sense back when women didn’t have proper jobs and were reliant on men for money, but in the modern day it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and often makes relationships feel transactional. i think it can change from situation to situation, however on most occasions either splitting the bill or alternating (one person pays for one date, the other person pays for the next) is the best way to go.
Though things have changed for women , men still have to abide by the same standards and show they can provide and arnt a broke boy equality at its finest lol
Personally, I agree and would never let a man pay for me. But it's not because I think things are perfectly equal. Women still make significantly less money than men, plus do more of the household work. Additionally, men might want to sweeten the deal because dating is simply riskier for women, looked at from a market perspective: people with vagina's are more likely to contract diseases during sex due to micro tearing, women are far less likely than men to orgasm during a hook-up, there's the risk of pregnancy, women are more likely than men to be murdered by a potential partner, and the rates of rape and assault are, while debatably, probably suggestive that women are more likely to be endangered by their partners. Finally, there are the pre-date costs: shaving, waxing, eyebrows, make-up: women spend far more money and time than men to maintain themselves and be physically appearing. Sometime I bet the thinking is just, "if I'm going to wax my hoo-ha, then, it had better be worth it."
I mean, the guy is in the wrong for not just going to Amsterdam or Nevada. He basically paid for a high class escort without any guarantee that she'd screw him. They have services and tried and true methods to do this that have pioneered for millennia. There's absolutely no reason to fly out an IG model. Obviously the model was deceptive, and took advantage of him, but he set himself up for even going along with this idea. He's obviously not an Arab prince, so he doesn't have it like that to waste money courting these types of women. He could do everything he was planning on doing for a fifth of that price if he just went to a brothel in Western Europe.
No, the guy is in the wrong here. She has the right to refuse sex at any time, regardless of how much money he spent. That's how consent works. Yes, even if she was manipulating him in the end. The fact that some men still don't get this is disturbing. Sex isn't something you're owed from someone else just because you threw some money at them. Even sex workers have the right to refuse you. Come on now, it's 2022. He freely spent his money. If he now regrets it, that's a him problem.
Also can we please talk about that we can not compare losing money on someone with losing your bodily autonomy! Its way worse and traumatic to be raped than to have "wasted" money on something or somewhen.
"Even sex workers have the right to refuse you." On condition that they also accept that no payment is made. No payment = no service, both party walk away freely. I like how the chain of consequence stop at the woman is wrong for manipulating the man, but not one step further, which is the woman doing the right thing by paying back the money to the man, even partially. Even at the last minute, this woman still think she's slick and she can get away with it. How come no one talk about how the man has already lost his end of the bargain, his money and time and still at the last moment, he still have the courtesy to censor this woman's face ?
Being manipulative is wrong, she knew he expected sex and she should have declined the vacation. He should have been clear that he expects sex before spending all that money. Also, saying what year it is isn´t an argument.
Crazy times we live in. I met my boyfriend on bumble. It tooks like 2.5 months to kiss and about 3.5 months to have sex. We made dinner together, gave each other book recommendations, just enjoyed each other's company. Modern dating is atrocious and I'm so glad to be done with the apps for the time being.
I can’t be the only one who’s extremely fucking horrified by this video and most of the comment section, right? They’re not “equally wrong”. She didn’t “know what she was getting into” , not for certain. Would you continue this line of thought had he stepped it up a notch? What if it wasn’t just screaming at her, humiliating her on Instagram live. Would she have known what she’d gotten into then? You all realise the implications of that, right? In what world does being vain and liking expensive dates even slightly equate to the flaws of the guy here? Rather than be an adult and directly communicate he definitely wants s3x by the end of the night, and she could refuse over text, he chose to drop thousands for a woman he *doesn’t fucking know*, entirely so he can make her feel like she owes him her body. It’s his own stupidity and quite frankly - borderline predatory mindset talking. He 100% got himself into this. There will always be shallow people, it’s up to you to not be a fucking child and wise up to the fact people’s boundaries cannot be “bought”. You cannot assume that because you court someone, they’ll “probably” want to do you. There’s hundreds of thousands of leaflets, posts, blogs, news articles and videos out there discussing this aspect of consent so explicitly that he has no excuse for such a 1950’s view of women.
Agreed. And this doesnt even always correlate with how much is spent. Some guys do think they can spend ANY amount and get sex. I was on a date with a guy who spent 20 dollars on a first date and was subsequently angry that I didn’t want to see him again because Id ‘made him’ spend money on me knowing I wasn’t interested When actually his actions on the actual date had put me off ( he was on his phone 90 % of the time, I was asking ALL the questions and he seemed completely uninterested). Some guys feel entitled to sex regardless of what they put in In terms of effort/ money spent etc. Also, judging by how aggressive and entitled this guy is in the TikTok I wouldn’t want to sleep with him either!
Obviously the guy is a total scumbag, but she was in the wrong because she put wild amounts of trust in a complete stranger. Imagine if the guy had more nefarious intentions. Just extremely reckless decision making on her part. If someone you really cared about was offered a plane ride and a hotel by a strange man, would you let them go?
She absolutely knew what she was getting into lol. She was clearly exploiting his desire for her to extract resources from him, that is wrong. You’re acting like he attacked her, all he did was get salty and yell at her, she doesn’t owe him anything yes, but he’s also free to say whatever he wants.
Ladies, you deserve a man who will love you every day of the year, not just on the days you want to have sex with him. Also, kindness is not a product or currency that you can offer in exchange for sex, under any circumstances. Money should only be offered in exchange for sex when one is procuring the services of a sex worker, someone who is consensually engaging in an exchange of services for money. No act of kindness, or amount of money (unless as previously stated) should ever be a reason a man expects a sex act from you. Your body is yours and yours alone, to do with what you want. All of this applies "even" if you are an Instagram model, or sex worker. Edit: my point was less about that specific situation, and more about sex being transactional. Everything I said here applies, to regular ordinary women, and to sex workers and models.
You are way besides the point, this relationship is purely transactional and has nothing to do with love. What the woman in this situation is looking for is having some good time but that doesn't come for free, and what the man is looking for is sex. The problem here is that because the woman does not want to perceive herself and not be perceived as a sex worker this construct has been built where none of the parties will acknowledge this as sex work and will pretend it is some kind of artificial relationship similar to the "sugar daddy" construct. Let's be honest here the woman in this particular video knew what it is implied in this particular situation, but because of the vagueness of this arrangement and the fact that she is in no way obligated to respect her end of the deal she thought she could just cheat that man ... that's just what it is, you don't fly across the country so a stranger can give you flowers and candy.
Yet women will still expect a man to buy her drinks, pay for dinner, and pay for vacations and gifts, otherwise he’s stingy and her friends will tell her to just ghost him. Curious.
He is wrong for paying thousends on a girl he had never met and expecting something in return, she is wrong for accepting it all while she never even had the intention to ever get intimate anyway. Both stupid.
Men have higher sex drive, higher than women, and I don't think that we as women understand that. And I think that it's easier for us to say that we want to be loved even without sex, but for men it's painful. They REALLY think that you don't love them if you don't want to have sex with them. And I'm talking about normal relationships, not those strange encounters like in the video. P.S. Yes, men also need intimacy beside sex and understanding and respect, but they NEED sex.
Honestly I think they were deliberately trying to get into this situation and see who'd tow a harder line. The fact that it got on TikTok to me is an indication that she towed the harder line and he wasn't expecting and flailing a bit.
part of the reason why i've never been interested in dating apps is because of the modern idea of skipping that important friendship stage. instead i use Bumble BFF with the idea that a potential friend could develop into something more further down the line. however, the problem is that (i assume) most people don't go into the same situation as open-minded. otherwise there'd be no reason why BFF and Dating are two separate categories on the app. how dare i possibly want something more with a friend instead of taking the dating-specific route
Is Bumble BFF working out well for you (even if just for friends/companions, I'm not talking about a potential partner here)? I was considering using it exactly because it is separate. (I know Tinder and dating apps are often used just for hookups, and it would be fun to actually get to know more people without swimming through a sea of hookups-only accounts).
@@tymondabrowski12 honestly most conversations die out pretty early on. the one time i planned to meet with someone in person it was during finals and she ended up being too busy to meet up but i’m sure making actual friends is possible
Another problem is that the more conventionally attractive, hot guys that you would really want do use the BFF option. They know they can get what they want by being straightforward and dont have to 'waste their time' pretending they want friednship first. On the BFF I came across mostly normie / ok looking guys who you wouldnt swipe right if seeking a hookup. That is just sad from a girls pov
I went on couple of dates and stated in profile that I’m not looking for the hook but yet I’m still face with men trying to manipulate when I say no several time. it’s disgusting you can’t simply get to know people, they just see you as something to sleep with no commitment, it makes hard to find long term because these men are not looking for that but even it does they still go out with girl just to get some and leave while still searching for the one. I have learn to no matter what hold on to my value and not give in.
Most men have come to beleive that women do doublespeak: They say they dont want hook ups, but hook ups with conventionally hot guys anyway, while make less attractive/hot guys wait. Have you been guilty of doing the same?
@@newperson9662 first of all only insure men thinks like that, not all women are like that, maybe that something you do or other men do but most women they don't that's why you see so many men on dating app cheating. If a girl is choosing to wait because she has moral and is not someone that sleep around but then your perception of her, if she say no then respect that to stop trying to manipulate her. Just like how only top men get women just the same as men being picky choosing the top women to wife while sleeping with anyone women even if he doesn't her which is sick and manipulative, but get mad when the top doesn't want them and blame the whole women gender. I ran into normal that were not into me but willing to sleep with me, it sick and is waste of my time because now I have to worry about being attack when I say no. Their are many women dating normal men but they don't get picked and are sleep on.
@@newperson9662 most men that hating on women have the idea that only top men that women look for, majority of us is looking for nice, kind, committed, nerd men but nope we don't get pick and only get used and toss away. That why some of use don't hookup and close our legs.
@@jemima44h Most of you women only feel sick when men in your league want to just sleep with you. You have no issues with sleeping with men above your league. Thats when you feel honored. Stop being a two faced hypocrite and at least be honest.
I don't understand either people in that situation. Why would you spend thousands to fly a stranger out to you. Why would you accept a stranger spending thousands to fly you out to him. Men expecting "something" in return for paying for a date is nothing new, but this is just weird (and so unsafe).
We live in the age of instant validation men and women are both racing to the top of the lookism hierarchy trying to fine a placement of getting options whether financial or sexual. It’s destroying the people that can’t compete at all.
Very insightful comment on how seeing something as a commodity tends to lead towards wanting to eventually upgrade it! Looking at my own life, though my one marriage ended, I have a number of multi-decade friendships that I fully expect to last the rest of our lives.
@Kidology, I am so relieved that someone finally spoke about this. With all that has been going on in the manosphere and with the redpill ideology/matrix, this video and your perspective on love is truly a breath of fresh air. I have for long struggled with loneliness and my identity and how it all relates to masculinity and the redpill and I had never seen it the way you talked about it, though it was perhaps there at the back of my mind to a certain extent. I dare the dating gurus and masculinity coaches to talk about this topic without appropriating this into the matrix. The reality of a sexless marriage albeit with love I do find disheartening and stomach-sinking but it is something we might need to talk about more. Wish I could meet you in person to say this, but thanks Kidology!
I'm only 4 seconds in, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the biggest mistake made was him trying to date an Instagram influencer, even before spending 5K. Doesn't anyone meet organically anymore?
Rarely anyone some folks are done with online dating and go out but women who are done with online dating are replacing it with real life they just hope a guy approaches. Guys have to hope in real life that they talk to a girl that’s single.
If someone calls themselves an influencer I would want nothing to do with them let alone go on a date lol. The amount of crap that's uploaded under the umbrella of 'influencing' is unbelievable.
@C I never said that she owed him his body. I actually think he wasn't thinking clearly, assuming that if he drops 5K on her, that she'll sleep with him, or (according to his reaction) she owed him for it all. But the bigger mistake made, like I said, was trying to date an influencer. Just my personal opinion.
The man is scary and emotionally stunted. Rather than meeting a regular woman in real in life and building a romantic relationship built on something more than physical attraction he wanted to buy an IG model. The model is a user, unkind, and risked her safety. She could have told him there'd be no sex beforehand, but she wanted to be spoiled.
I mean. The man isn't scary or stunted. He's frustrated that the woman takes up his money time attention and energy and is intentionally pretending she doesn't understand that the man is interested in sex. The man isn't owed sex. But the woman knows he wants it, and intentionally leads him to think it's on the table while draining him of everything that he has that's valuable. Women like this are actual predators but society would never address them as such
@@ikilledthemoon I wouldn't go as far to say a predator, but yeah she's a horrible person for sure and women like her break good men's trust and then women who do want to date and get intimate and possibly have a real relationship aren't trusted and shut out, so it's the gold digging sl*ts and w**res that ruin it for good women who are genuine wifey material. But this same logic can be applied the other way around as well vice versa it can and does go both ways.
@@liasplace4607 Maybe you're right, but these women are highly predatory because they're feeding on your energy to get attention while at the same time they get the freedom to claim that anyone that is trying to have sex with them is a bad person for trying to have sex REGARDLESS of how they try or how kind they are or how polite they are. So you can be a perfect gentlemen treat a woman exactly how feminists say all women should be treated, and then get accused by a woman of being creepy or weird or a predator simply for trying to sleep with her when she had absolutely no intention of sleeping with you but baited you into thinking there was a possibility. That's actually what happened to Myron from Fresh and Fit a few months ago. A woman baited him into thinking sex was on the table, then went on H3H3's show to claim he was weird, but she accidentally showed her hand by saying she never had any intention of sleeping with him but wanted to embarass him with rejection and go on H3H3 to talk about it. Why? Women crave attention at all costs pand that's how they're predatory.
@@ikilledthemoon she is certainly using him, but he put himself in the position to get used. He left the sexual exchange he wanted unspoken. If he wanted a contract where he would get sex in exchange for gifts and money he should have hired an escort. Both of these people are pretty awful.
I had a ok date yesterday and she was very beautiful but it was clear she wasn’t interested in being with me any deeper than enjoying the moment of having fun. Sometimes you can just feel it and when you do it sucks for sure that a woman you are talking to isn’t interested in you intimately and doesn’t see you as a person they can be attracted to. You just have to take it on the chin and move on. Using money to supplement the process will only make the rejections you get even worse. There is no solution to gaining women’s affections money can help but if you were always a lame you’ll stay one just with money.
@@Chambermenz married, 3 kids, etc etc. My dating days are a long time ago but it seems to me that the right thing to do if you are going on a date just because you want to get out of the house rather than for any genuine interest in the person, then you should at least offer to pay half and be honest
@@bobbrian6526 3 kids...I guess you are broke! ...j/k. In OP's case it could have been that the girl just didn't feel chemistry in person eventhough she vibed with OP via text. Idk, but that's always been a risk of dating.
I think an issue here is that of course when we genuinely like someone we do good things for them, and of course when we like someone we want to spend time with them and show interest and care. So it's not a matter of people coldly wanting to "exchange goods", but a matter of people thinking the other person actually likes them and therefore wanting to exchange goods. Like, it's not that men think that buying drinks merits sex, but rather that in some scenarios the understanding is that if you go drinking with someone it's because you are attracted to them. Or I read a post recently by a girl complaining of how she offered emotional support and helped her male friends with their problems but they never showed any romantic interest in her and went for other girls. Was she engaging in a machiavellian plot to get relationships by offering sympathy? I don't think so; she just made the somewhat reasonable assumption that talking about intimate feelings is what you do with people of the opposite gender you are attracted to. These misunderstandings are just the product of a world where one night stands have to coexist with serious relationships, and platonic friendships with "you need to be friends before being a couple" and even "fwb", etc., without any clear social demarkation between them. And the thing is, many people don't actually want to clarify where they stand and what they are looking for, but rather want to have their cake and eat it to, by just being open to anything and taking advantage of any opportunity either way. Seriously, people go to nightclubs looking for either a hookup or their future spouse, like wtf.
As a man, I really appreciate your channel and your opinion on both sexes. I believe that you truly offer a great take on everything wrong with the current sexual marketplace and I love to listen to your unbiased videos
This video just really hits the nail. Been thinking about the dating world for a while now and always ended up with a sad feeling. Selling oneself and expecting to be loved and still treated with comfort and compassion is something that just doesnt work practically. Through my colleage years I had been working various jobs in retail and worked with customers daily. People feel entiteled, even those who are usually good people. And very often its not so much about the money but about how they expect to be treated for the money they paid for a product. To me this goes even a step further as to question when people sell themselves or more so their bodies on onlyfans. I think as a woman, even if I did it just for myself and not expect others to do the same, I would still set a path for men to believe that a female body is a product. The more girls are selling themselves (for the money and get a lot of money) the more the idea of women as a product gets accepted. Just as all those girls who cheated on their guys or who treated most men like trash now there is a whole movement of guys who view all girls like this. We as people have to be aware to set acceptabel examples because who we play in this society is not only coming back at us but also coming back at other people. Love shouldnt be so complicated. Unlike in former times when one hardly ever had the chance to be with the person they sincerly liked and had chemistry with now we do have the chance. But instead we run away the moment sexual excitement cools off and act as if it always only was about sex. That's so untrue. Love is actually what is beyond that. Its a feeling of connection and the willingness to take responsibility to keep this connection ongoing. And that's not an overromanticed image of love. I believe my vision of love is far more realistic and always was far more realistic than what was portraiyed in the media but somehow I still found it appealing eventhough it didnt mean being arroused by my partner 24/7.
I live here in west Africa and that kind of dating is very popular since generations back. Even when I live here in a predominantly Islamic nation, it is very common. Some men will get very angry and aggressive when they spend on a women and she doesn’t give him “body”.
I think it's important to voice expectations. If you expect sex, but don't voice the expectation, then how are you gonna get mad at the person for not fulfilling your uncommunicated expectation. Though I could also see a person being shamed on social media for a DM saying they had an expectation of sex when the two people got together. I also think women have a complicated relationship dealing with a man voicing an expectation for sex, since it's hard to know if you'll feel like having sex a day or week from a given time, but if he voices the expectation and you respond in an open way to the expectation, then who knows how much he might get angry if you then later change you mind. Not to mention if you change your mind and he r-pes you, the dms from you being open to his expectation for sex that night from a few days prior, can be used against you in the court of public opinion or maybe even an actually court, to back up him argument that is was consensual. It would be nice if a guy could saying, part of me being happy with paying to fly you out, it that we'd have sex while you're together, and a woman could respond, yes I'd like that, or no I wouldn't like that, but for the reasons I listed above, there's a lot of complications to that. That's part of the reason sex is often linked to love, even just friendship love, because if there is greater care between the two or more people, then someone changing their mind about sex, will hopefully be met with a kind response. A consideration for the actually individual(s) beyond sexual pleasure. Ideally this is a level of love extend between all human beings to one another, but without some level of extended experience with a person, it's hard to tell how much love, kindness, and respect they have for other humans on a vase human to human level. Sadly we're heavily trained to be consumers, no communities, not caring. I've worked customer service, and I've had people men and women blow up at me like that guy in the video, and it wasn't even for things that were my fault or within my control to change. Consumers, market places, are often full of verbal abuse and aggression. It's wild how when money comes into play, the payer quickly looses sight of others humanity. Look at the way people even treat other customers in videos of big sales, like America's black Friday sales. Money brings an interesting level of entitlement. I've heard women say men are entitled or feel entitled to sex, and I wonder how much this is connected to the larger buyer seller entitlement we see in these other areas I've brought up. It just so happens that the market place we've created, the man is far more often the buyer, by some way spending money, and the woman is far more often the seller, getting something beyond just the sex, from the sexual relationship, though that is starting to change in modern times. I should be clear, I'm in now way approving of the buyers entitlement or any man or woman who feels entitled to other people's bodies' either in the sexual area, or in terms of our consumer marketplaces. Team human's with respect, even if the work somewhere you are shopping at.
So, the woman is wrong because she wasn’t explicit about not wanting to sleep with the man but he didn’t have to be explicit about his expectations for sex after spending money because she should have known. Shouldn’t he have known a woman wouldn’t want to sleep with someone she just met in person for the first time? She has no idea of his sexual health or if any in person chemistry will further develop. I don’t see how one needs to be explicit while the other doesn’t. Not to mention, men are shaming women for their “high body counts”, “being ran through”, “being 304s”, etc. The only way a woman doesn’t fall into that is by not having sex too quickly. But now men are mad about women taking their advice? Glad I’m married because it’s crazy out there. I wish you singles all the best.
Nah man. The guy paid a lot of cash for a flight, dinner and clearly expensive motel under the impression that she would sleep with him at the end of it and she accepted everything, but when it came the time to have sex, she basically denied and acted like she didn't know that he was expecting that. (Yeah, a guy that you don't know pays for a bunch of expensive stuff for you and wasn't expecting nothing in return. {Sarcasm.}) Both are in the wrong to be honest and she's lucky that all he did was yell at her. (A lot of man would not react well to the fact that they just wasted 5K over nothing.)
That guy is a simp....just the fact that he has to 'fly' someone out for a date and spend all that $$$ not having met this lady before??? Come on man! A woman does not have to sleep with you regardless of what you do for her. Big time failure in judgement.
It’s so embarrassing. Both of them are shallow, but there’s just something extra pathetic about spending 5k to have intercourse. All these guys making OF models into millionaires too.
You're right, but I'm really having some difficulty in understand what the fuck was that woman thinking. Was she seriously expecting all that shit for free? Because there's no way she didn't thought he would want something in return.
a decent woman would never have accepted him spending that money on her without clarifying his intentions. The reality is that she knew he was after sex, and played him
Love how the others responding to your comment completely skipped over your actual comment calling out the guy and attacked the woman instead. You weren’t even talking about her, hahaha 🤪
I don't think she is at fault at all. And I don't think she deserved this, no woman deserves this. She sounded like she was confused about what he was talking about. If a man blows 5k as if it is nothing, most women will assume he did this because he sees her as a valuable partner, he is trying to get to know me and it's normal for him to spend that much. If he wanted segs he should have been clear about it instead of being sneaky not every woman is an escort. This is the same dudes that will call random women a whole bunch of names if they sleep on the first date meanwhile also shame the ones who don't want to lol. It's such a weird manipulation trick no wonder why more and more people are choosing to stay single than be a part of all that.
No, it's only him who's wrong. Did he tell her upfront he wanted sex for this? I bet he didn't. Did she tell him she wanted to have sex with him before she came? I bet she didn't. She might have thought he was so into her, that he just wanted to treat her like a princess. That's naive but people can be naive, it's not unheard of. Unless he told her explicitly what he wanted, she might have thought whatever. She's right, she doesn't have to f him, no matter the money he spent. Sex is a strange thing, you get it for free when you do things right, but there's no amount of money that can buy it for you when you do things wrong - outside of prostitution of course. And boy, did he do things wrong.
As a man, that video was basically unwatchable. It is one thing to buy a woman gifts in the hopes it might help you get some action , it is another thing to get angry that she didn’t sleep with you, as if gifts can entitle you to sex. That guy also knew what it was! It was just so entitled it angered me to watch. There are alternatives to Instagram models if you want straight up to pay for sex. I don’t care how much even might have been programmed to view relationships as transactional, you can’t treat people like that. If she fleeced you for a free trip, you gotta take the L, bro. Anything else makes you an asshole at best, and quite possibly actually dangerous.
As a woman I don't think he was being unreasonable. He wanted a 'date' and dessert later. While we could blame him for not being direct about it and going to an escort instead ,that exactly was his point. He didn't want it to be that. The woman can't be naive enough to have thought he only wanted her company because she's so wonderful interesting and charming. When a strange dude flies you out buys you food and takes you to a hotel room you know he's not planning on a board game later. It's messed up on both ends but she's a lot worse. Feeds the stereotype that women love playing games with men to get something out of them , and act pristine when it's time to reciprocate.
@@Trollika_Devi The point is that he is screaming and being extremely aggressive. He is behaving in a way that is scary and dangerous and that is an absolutely valid criticism. Being an idiot doesn’t entitle you to make someone feel in danger.
@@dioselina2760 She WAS in danger. It could have been an axe murderer in his place. As for the screaming, crude yes but it's not exactly something you can hold against him because he was shortchanged. She used him and he was angry. She had seen it coming but thought she'd manipulate her way out of it. If I was in her place I wouldn't be surprised if he screamed at me like that because if you run the bill up to thousands of dollars dining at the expense of a guy you had never met before you are commodifying yourself.
@@dioselina2760 people get angry when they are played, and have every right to be angry. He didnt threaten her or hit her or rape her, he was just angry. If you dont want people to be angry then you should be honest and up front in your dealings with them
It’s great how she grew her channel quickly. From 10k to 100k hopefully she gets a million subs soon and can support her living with her channel. We get more videos
Unless a woman states from the outset, that she is a professional, and that she will indeed provide sex in exchange for money... sex is not transactional. It does not matter how much I spend bringing her to my home, from however far away... she owes me nothing. Least of all sex. And professional ladies have a right to set limits as well. If a client is not as advertised, a pro can and should walk away... FAST. The man in the Tik Tok vid, was wrong to make the assumption that he was owed sex. That he never alluded to any prior contract, suggests that he failed to make clear that sex was the commodity he was buying. He assumed that he would be given sex in exchange for showing himself to be a "big spender". But he never checked to make sure he was dealing with a professional. An Instagram model, is like a Call Of Duty veteran. Its a bullshit designation. It says nothing beyond shallow and superficial, crass materialist. It does NOT translate to Professional Sexual Services. And he likely would not hire a pro.
I'm a disabled guy and I feel this so much. I'm working my way through grad school, but I have no money and I have no resources. I've been out with girls (as friends), who I think expect the little bit more and I don't know why I guess it's because I've never been in a relationship, but it hurts when they see me and their demeanor completely changes. Love is dead to me, I'm going to try to make the best I can on my own life and try to be as independent as I can, but I don't think I'll find anyone I'm too damaged and defective. I don't think another disabled person would even want me.
@@newperson9662 it does. To be honest I'm not sure I can really blame them, though. Because could we need a lot of help and it's sort of understandable that they would want someone more capable than they are.
Lol I've had a woman cuss me out because I texted her before we went out that we should pay for ourselves. She makes more than me as well. I don't get what the big deal is? I've never expected anyone to pay for my shit.
@@counselorguy5481 yeah, I feel that my guy. Sorry you had to go through that. With my most recent example of this I really don't know whether she thought it was a date or not. I genuinely just wanted to meet her, but I could see the look of disappointment on her face like I said-this applies to even just friends.
The idea that they are both to blame in the tik-tok video is deeply offensive. There is nothing in the video to suggest that she promised him sex for money. There ARE men who spend a lot of money on models simply to be with them, to be SEEN with them, etc., without the expectation of sex. That man had a completely baseless belief that he was entitled to sex. Period. To be sure, it's ridiculous to live a life that centers on wealth, celebrity, and glamour. I don't particularly admire what the Instagram model was doing. But that's different from selling sex. She plainly wasn't in that business and never claimed to be. I do agree with the emphasis on friendship in this video - completely. Attitudes about intimate relationships are often thought about in painfully shallow and superficial ways. But that has nothing to do with that tik-tok video. This video would have been a lot better without it.
Thanks for this video! I did a lot of dating and I hated the marketization of sex, thought I was taking part in it. Very destructive, both in straight and gay relationships. Love as friendship is the only durable kind of love and I was lucky to finally find it. This is also the Platonic idea of love. For Plato this was, of course, between two men, who´s spirits will raise and transcend through the deepest kind of friendship. Real as life. And by the way, what we today call "platonic love" is not this. It is related because sex is not the key thing, but Plato did include sex. As you say, though, specially when you get older, sex is not so important, it may not even be necessary. Personally, though, I would not try a "special friendship" with somebody I don´t have a good sexual connection with. This is because I prefer sexual exclusivity, and that may not work if you don´t feel truly attracted to that person. Wanting to sleep with others?! That would be devastating to me. Not saying it cannot work for others, I´ve seen it working really badly, but that doesn´t mean it´s bad for everyone.
I don’t think I can longer watch your videos on this topic of dating. There’s no problem with you but for the sake of my mental wellbeing I simply can’t.
Thank you for saying they are both wrong. I’ve thought that from the first time I saw that video. Relationships are purely transactional now. You can hear it in the music. No one sings of love anymore but instead about how easy it would be to take your girlfriend, wife, boyfriend, etc. because I have substantially more money than you do. I hate it here…you make it a little bit better though. ❤
@balkancibraca well said. Do not succumb to peer pressure. I don’t really know you or your friends but you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders. Be true to yourself and you will attract a like minded individual who hopefully has a good sense of humor.
@@jasonhaven7170 true. I don’t listen to a lot of modern music and that’s the reason why. It lacks substance. I simply meant that “love” type of music isn’t at the forefront anymore - meaning it’s not promoted or played on the radio like the catchy, TikTok, arguably toxic songs are. It’s still out there…but it’s a lot harder for those artists to get noticed now a days.
And I thought dating in the 90s was psychotic! Seeing all this makes me grateful that 1. I'm not part of the younger generations today, 2. I've been married for almost 20 years, 3. my wife and I are (and always have been) on the same page about male-female relationships, and 4. I am at an advanced enough age and have a rich enough outside life that if, God forbid, our marriage should end for whatever reason and I end up alone, I will be able to carry on alone.
Dating in 2023 is maybe the most broken thing in all of society, and besides this video, no one is as angry as they should be about it. In 30 years, we'll see how bad we all got this so wrong.
It is wrong because pre social media, this IG model would be dating one guy. Today she can 'date' 100 and men feel women are priced out of the market. The problem is women's standards not mens
@New Person nothing wrong with the average woman's standards. Women have come a long way in history and we don't need men like we used to. Men seem to be stuck in the past. That 666 rule comes from an insecure man trying to justify his rejection instead of reflecting on himself. Stop looking for relationships on the internet. That pool is damaged.
@@jl6523 Geh I don't know, how about how we are killing the planet by polluting the air and the environment causing all sorts of phenomena that could lead to our extinction? But a sad boo-boo heart is worse 🥺
There was a 21 year old man in Texas who was arrested for beating, SA, and holding captive a young woman he met on Bumble. After the date, they went back to his place and she rejected his advances, that’s when everything took a turn for the worse . She was held over the week(s) of Christmas and the New Year. Long story short ladies. Don’t accept things from a man (strangers specifically) whether that be trips, bags, literal cash, etc without understanding you more than likely will have to “pay” him back more than likely in the form seggs or a relationship. Lastly, fellas… why not bring up the possibility of having seggs after the date if that’s what you want? And if she says no prior to you taking her out, than move onto the next woman.
I don't really get what a rapist kidnapping and repeatedly raping the girl who went on a date with him has to do with people accepting things from others. ...Unless the "lesson" is don't trust any man to go back to his house for any reason because he'll probably turn into a rapist if you change your mind or don't feel ready to have sex. ... And that would be a crappy "lesson" too as most men aren't rapists. I mean I feel like I get some idea of what you're trying to say, but the example of the rapist just seems off and victim-blamey.
Wow. You have low expectations for men, huh? Whether it's $5 for a coffee or a $5000 trip (that a man will happily flaunt like it's "nothing" bc of his financial status until the right moment for him), so many guys 100% act entitled, huffy, aggressive and even scary. If a date doesn't work out, I DO NOT throw in his face the hours getting ready, the plans I could've made/shifts I could've picked up otherwise. This is because I know how to show respect and kindness! If a woman is a social media influencer she is probably used to getting with wealthier guys. Some guys are flashy AND kind and she's probably experienced that before. How dare everyone assume she's playing a game here?
To add on to what @marieg everyone technically has other and more productive things they could've do with their free time, but when people go on dates because they genuinely are investing their emotions, money, and time on that person. So if a date doesn't work out, of course someone is going to be upset. If this woman is a social media influencer who dealt with numerous of thirsty and wealthy guys in her DMs, she should know that a man who is offering to fly a woman out and spending 5k on her is a form of sexual proposition. I'm willing to bet my entire life that just like the angry dude, she wasn't interested in getting to know each other. He was trying to fuck and she was looking for an expensive free lunch.
@marie g exactly, it's on the person investing their time/energy/money to not be an asshole about what they're getting in "return". Not sure why you're arguing.
I think relationships were always a marketplace exchange of some sort for better or worse. More problems when people feel cheated and exploited whether actual or perceived which is more rampant in the modern dating market most likely. Maybe the best thing is mutual attraction for both parties who are both willing to try with one another.
Kidology’s story is why I no longer befriend men. There is always an interest on their part or hope for an opportunity. No thanks, take someone else for a fool..
I find it very curious how both parties feel both entitled to their assumptions and neglectful of the other's expectation whilst not making any attempt at meaningful communication to ensure anything at all. I feel like these kinds of arrangements can still be had and could be so less toxic or entitled if they had a simple conversation to confirm or deny their respective expectations beforehand and move on from there. But ig these complications just prove that the marketization of sexuality/relationships are just not compatible with mature communication. Like any market, its ultimate goal is to exploit or be exploited so in a way it is tragically fitting.
It’s hard to divulge from the sexual marketplace idea because it is so widespread and ingrained. I am a trauma survivor with a lot of sexual struggles and it’s hard not to feel guilty for not providing sexually for my partner who I live with and who I mutually take care of in every other way. These days sex and love can come together but it’s important in a long term partner to have full love regardless of sex
I believe Kidology's very right on this. Using the SMV metric as one's rubric for long term, marriage worthy, romantic partner is probably... no good. Understanding it has its benefits though; and if you're solely after clout and-or sex, it's a great guide. Beyond that... It's high school mentality adultified
First man thought he bought a prostitutes services by giving her a hotel room, but she never said that she was a sex worker. He doesn’t view women as people, just sex objects, fucking disgusting
I like your take on this, Zee. I would like to add some remarks that, for reasons I won't go into here, I am well qualified to make. In addition to the commodification of every bloody aspect of life under the current social conditions, there is also the factor of attachment injury. Everyone innately needs authentic, caring, intimate attachments, and this should include our sexual relations. But we accumulate conditioned defence-reactions throughout life due to experiences of abandonment, betrayal, cruelty, etc.. Desiring, objectifying, can feel stronger and safer than loving. Love is vulnerable and intimate. I think that many people don't even recognise that they are afraid of this. They habitually occupy the position of looking, lusting-after, chasing, grabbing, binding desired objects to themselves... But I think it's like hunting elephants: the 'prize' is a marvellous living being in its rich context; what you take home is a stuffed, dead lump that hangs on your wall. Love and sex can coexist over the long term, but I think it's an art to keep it smouldering, and we should not have porntastic expectations of ecstatic lust with vending-machine-like reliability. As you say: in sickness & in health. Happiness is not pleasure. Pleasure is just one part of life that needs to be in balance for the sake of the organism. Hedonists are just wrong and always end up unbalanced and self-destructive when they get what they want--doesn't matter whether the 'drug' is cocaine or promoting world peace. Happiness is peace with things as they are. I don't think it's a specific, elusive state but rather our true nature as being when we don't mistake ourselves for some incomplete idea of ourselves.
The man hedonism was named after got a bad rap. He didn't believe in pleasure to the point of self destruction. He believed it is a vital part of our lives in the pursuit of living better lives. I just hate the hedonism slander, he was actually a really stand up guy. The puritan-esk leaders of the time hated him though, and aggressively labeled him a dangerous self pleasuring fool.
@@GreenGorgeousness You might be getting mixed up with Epicurus and Epicureanism? 'Hedonism' just comes from the word for 'pleasure', not someone's name. If this is the case, it's also worth saying hedonism & epicureanism are very different ways of life.
Ok the only thing I don’t necessarily agree with is that she “knew what she was doing”. If the scenario in the video is exactly right and has NO extra context (which could be unlikely) then saying she knew what she was doing might be correct. On the other hand there are more possibilities for this specific scenario. Maybe she did wanna have sex with him but he did something weird or acted in a way that turned her off. What if she wanted to wait longer and then, seeing his insane ass outburst with a camera, for sure changed her mind. Maybe she actually didnt understand that would be expected of her or also maybe he acted like he didnt care about it, but expected it anyway. The thing is that money doesnt buy sex even if its a expectation in patriarchy and unless she for sure was truthfully using him theres way more scenarios that make sense and would inform our knowledge not just purely on the video from his perspective where he corners her and shuts her up.
I thought this. She may have changed her mind when she saw his character was so deficient. Like, they just met. She might have gotten to know him and decided it was not a wise choice. He seems super-unlikable to say the least.
I don’t quite understand why you blamed the girl in that situation. For assuming that there isn’t transactionality in her visit? For skirting over an unspoken contract reaping profit without clearing costs? Both these options feel murky. Maybe that both parties assumed the other’s consent to their personal understanding of the situation without bothering to verify how the other understood it? Influencer economics do make people accept large scale benefits as a given. Escape from purely transactional activity requires thinking through. The guy in the situation could have thought that the limit between the girl joining him willingly and between the contract being spoken out loud was the bar between romance/dating and sex work. As you shared from your own experience, expectations don’t have a shared cultural standard. There isn’t a level where one is owed sex, maybe there should be a level where one is owed clarification about expectations from both parties and of both parties
The fact that you mention friendship make me hopeful, hopefully one day i met someone who can reciprocate those feelings, but also hopefully i also get those friendships that can work it through
A long time ago when I turned 18, I flew out to another country to see someone I met online. I spent about $2000 between the cost of airfare, a passport, a few hundred in foreign currency and suitable clothes (I was going from a sub-tropical to a sub-arctic climate). She didn't end up "putting out", but I already understood she didn't "owe" me sex. I had other people, including family members, tell me I was way nicer than they would have been and if they were in the same position they would have gone off on her for not doing more, em, favors for them. What I was upset about though was the way I was treated. I was given the cold shoulder and blown off and later found out she was talking to somebody else that she ended up marrying. I went there not necessarily for "love" or intimacy but for closure, and being told I was awkward and unattractive after making that gesture really was a blow to the chest. I think it's completely reasonable that women change their minds or simply don't want to engage in physical intimacy, and men aren't "owed" sex in exchange for money/time/other investments. But I also think some women take for granted what men will do for them as acts of kindness, sense of duty or even just an expectation to be gentlemen in order to even make that intimacy possible.
He was exhibiting extreme behaviour, I don't see how her behaviour warrants the phrase "the deserving of each other". But yes, I encourage individuals to either be clear in what you expect or if you feel unsafe rejecting someone, which happens, do not date that individual or don't accept/pay them back whether it's 2 or 2000 dollars, so that if you are threatened or feel unsafe or refuse intercourse, others will not say: " you knew what you were doing". I rarely take sides but based on the info in the video, I would not let that man anywhere near anyone i know . Mental health is extremely important, grossly untreated in adult men and more of a problem than getting laid or not (EDIT: while not statistically independent). And not the capitalist bootstrappy mental health American society loves but real science based evidence practice for treating men in this current society. I hope that after getting my degree, I'll be able to help people see that there is more to life than fucking, like a low IQ neanderthal.
Relationships have always been an economic arrangement. More so when women literally couldn't thrive in society without being married. Things are shifting but they're not becoming more of a marketplace than they always were.
With such expectations, I may not be wrong to think he is part of the manosphere, bashes women for being easy, idealizes a traditional woman yet is upset a woman won't sleep with him on the first date or in exchange for his kindness. Something else I find interesting is how he turned on his instagram to resolve this. Great people skills! the chemistry must have been undeniable. No wonder the poor guy can't believe what happened afterwards.
OMG, I agree so much with everything in this video, especially with the last point. I can't stand dating apps because the few times i've been on an app date in a bar, it's made me feel cheap, almost like an escort (who don't come cheap but you see what I mean. After only 2/3 hours and a couple of drinks, I'm expected to make up my mind about whether or not I have romantic feelings towards this person... Where romantic feelings is more of a slow-burning process for me, that takes several months, at least, to develop and the point is, they can only develop in an unexpected and surprising way, not when I'm trying to force them to develop. Also, when it's time to leave the bar, the guy grabs me and tries to kiss and squeese me, it's utterly disgusting and makes me feel sooooo cheap...!! No one wants to take time anymore to let things happen naturally and develop at an organic pace. Everyone is in a hurry and if you're not in the same rush as them, they've already started sending zillions of messages to several other female strangers. Men don't take time to invest in developing a relationship with just one woman anymore, they're just looking to score. Revolting.
the start of this video is very strange. It starts with a man recording himself yelling at and berating a woman because she doesn’t want to have sex with him. From his comments, we are made to understand that since he paid for her trip to see him, he feels she owes him sex. The woman rightly says I don’t have to have sex, if I don’t want. And the man continues to yell and berate her while recording her. And kidology sees this situation as both people were wrong. What?
It's more nuanced than that. The woman should be able to tell that the man clearly has intentions of more than just a friendly date with all the money he's spending here and be clear that she's either not attracted to him or just wants a non-extravagant first date or whatever her own intentions are. This doesn't just happen out of the blue, it was clearly planned some time in advance through instagram. Obviously the man isn't entitled to sex despite all of that and shouldn't ever be this aggressive, but the girl isn't blameless here.
@@TheMasterd333 I don't get your point. if the woman knew what his intentions were and was completely fine with them at one point but then changed her mind, what was she supposed to do then? she's supposed to just allow him to have access to that part of her because he spent money on her? or if she wanted to but felt too drunk or too ill, she should've just given him what he wanted anyways? there was no point where he was entitled to have sex with her, regardless of whether she was playing him from the beginning or she became uncomfortable with the idea later down the line. however when the issue he has is that he spent 5k on her, do you really think this man cares why she won't have sex with him? he clearly just felt like he could buy her consent, and you're validating that by saying that since she's there she should do what he wants.
@@TheMasterd333 You posted a whole bunch of nonsense. Not having sex with another person is not injuring that person. There is no nuance to explain away that reality. Don’t you see what you are saying here? I think you have very reactionary and conservative beliefs about women and sex.
@@TheMasterd333 Plus the guy was behaving and ranting like a lunatic while recording her. We all saw it. He may have been behaving like that the whole time she got there. We don’t know. That’s why the idea she is at fault for not having sex with that guy or anyone is just reactionary. It takes some weird beliefs about women and sex to see her at fault.
@@ctrlf7382 The man was never entitled to sex of course, and clearly he is way more in the wrong because of his behavior and actions. My point isn't that the woman should just give the man whatever he wants, but that there clearly is an intention behind some dude she doesn't know inviting her to an extravagant getaway over instagram and paying for a room they'll be sharing. Accepting that without the intention to have sex is basically fooling around and putting herself in danger. Being clear with intentions as to not lead a guy on is a responsablity she must take on for her own sake. Chaging her mind is also competely valid of course, but going all the way with the date to the point that they're literally together in the room is just irresponsible at that point. The only situation where no responsibility falls to her is as you mentioned, where she felt sick or drunk and in that case yes the guy is a full on psychopath, but we don't have the full context. Again to be clear, the man is still the person clearly most in the wrong here, isn't entitled to sex and will never be justified in yelling at and recording the woman, nor in his overly aggressive behavior. But still, at least some level of responsibility falls on the woman in most scenarios here.
Love this video, the influence of algorithms turning every interaction on the internet into a profitable exploit is exhausting. Would love to see this idea expanded on and see how digitizing and monetizing other human interactions and or social groups get affected.
Is there a precedent for sex and relationships to not be part of a market in some form or another? There seems to be a long history of marriages being performed for material means or agreements such as treaties, exchanges of goods etc. Even on a micro scale, many people enter relationships to combine resources with another person. I think, perhaps, the difference now is that there are fewer enforceable contracts associated with the dating marketplace. People enter these situations believing that the end 'product' could be a connection of sorts, but don't make provisions for the other possibilities that could arise. Then, we have encounters, such as the Tiktok example, where two people enter an 'agreement' with different expectations and neither of them receiving what they were expecting from the transaction (or one of them getting played). My own action, to counteract the above scenario, would be to double-down on the marketplace behaviours by stating agreements in writing including adding possible future scenarios into the agreement. I know it's not practical, but to leave it to the other person's goodwill is not sufficient security for me in these arrangements. That being said, I don't actively participate in the dating marketplace which is another surefire way to avoid all of this.
Very good video, but not enough energy is given to how we got here. Marketization is a solution to a pre-existing problem. People were unsuccessful in their relational endeavors. Women were unsuccessful in getting commitment from the men they wanted. While friendship is not a bad thing in itself, if she's a woman he'd prefer to be romantically involved with friendship is a failure. Friend is a dirty word to a lot of men because there's a fear that's all he'll ever be. I agree with you, however, that our shift toward a market and trade based approach has come at the cost of genuine companionship. So what's the solution? Be perpetually a friend to women you would rather be in an intimate relationship with? Be in various "come through" situationships with men you would rather receive a public commitment from(for women)? How do bridge the gap and find a scalable solution for the masses?
Ummm....taken at it's purist, maybe, but I took company and conversation as a legit part of the transaction. I just didn't view it in such cynical terms.
Distributing sex via a market place creates the idea that it is somehow separate from intimacy when in reality it's among one of the most intimate acts we can do as humans. Plus, intimacy requires vulnerability which can't be negotiated within a sterile market framework where everything has a price put on it. Unfortunately people are going to have to "f around and find out" how bad this model is for our entire well being.
The guy is really angry at himself because he was stupid enough to get played. Why he couldn't spend the money on a high class escort where the expectations are clear, I don't know. He wanted to pay for it without LOOKING as if he was paying for a bona fide escort and that's ALL on him. Maybe there was greater kudos in his eyes in f--k--g an IG. Something he could boast about to his homies. As for the woman, my concern isn't that she played him, but that she was negligent of her own safety. Now THAT was dumb.
I agree, she was really dumb, I'm not even flying to guys and they'd try to sexually harrass me online like d pic without consent or try to segs roleplay without consent, I'm gonna sound like a victim blamer but this girl is gonna get in trouble in the future if she continues, the dude is fault too though if he didn't communicate clearer what he wanted
*IMPORTANT UPDATED COMMENT:* For those of you saying that I said the woman in this video is wrong for not having s*x with the man, I cannot help you. Not once do I say any such thing. The personal story I relay in this very video is about me doing precisely what this woman did: Rejecting s*xual advances from a man who provided me with free accommodation; the difference being we were friends (who had, importantly, established a basis of mutual respect and humanisation beforehand) and worked through it openly and honestly after the fact, meaning that nothing ended up on TikTok and nobody felt lied to, manipulated or unsafe. Friendship, importantly, provides space for reconciliation, mistakes, and - just as importantly - forgiveness. *Please stop projecting* whatever ideology or personal politics onto what I am actually, word for word, saying. What I _do_ say is that both parties are in the wrong for not communicating what their very different, transactional interpretations and expectations of the relationship and cross-country trip were before everything that we regrettably got to see transpired.
*ORIGINAL COMMENT:* Who do you think is in the wrong? Thank you so much for watching, brethren.
Hope your doing well.
It's always been a sleazy world, but I think I get what u mean, the sheer quantity of garbage / spam voyer cam shit, etc, even a lot of us can only take that so far. I guess it's more exciting for some people, literally the voyer part, it's complicated freudian cousin lovin scientology I'd rather not understand, the bottom line is, you gotta sort through thousands of salesmen peddaling links to other social media before finding an actual person, then if you're excited to finally meet a real person you like, they'll probly block you if you just show up spamming them XD I have some experience with this, I know women deal with lot of additional crap from family and such, just don't feel like it's all over forever. Even the few real people I have met and who didn't get spooked by it have made all the difference on some level
COMMUNICATION
MAKE SURE YOU BOTH KNOW WHAT YOU WANT
@@niggasgang8784 if you want the right answer.. you need the right question first, similar logic, I agree. I can only blame someone so much for being confused, or sensitive after a bad relationship, but yeah, not knowing ur own motives.. it's caused much worse problems than this, I'll tell ya ;)
my whole life my mom drilled the idea into me “don’t accept gifts.. because they WILL expect something in return!“ -mainly with men. - “you don’t want to owe anyone anything, they will hold it over your head” . yes quickly found out that’s true in most cases.
same my dad also told my sisters and I from early "if you want something (material) you can come to me or your family members" bcos theyre only ones who won't expect anything except a "thank you" from us in return.
I see what that guy in the intro did everywhere with ppl trying to buy girls and I'm not with it tbh
Exactly
Yup. Never let the guy pay the bill after a date if you dont intend to see him again because he's quite likely to call you a freeloading pricktease behind your back. Also because you shouldn't be eating at a strangers expense. I feel very uncomfortable when the guy insists on paying instead of splitting. But some men take it personally.
My grandfather taught me that as well. He said to never let a man pay for anything until after he's met your family. That's why introducing men to fathers is important. They need to be called out on their shit right away by another man to realize they are either in or not.
That's kinda cynical but, at least in the context of modern dating, absolutely a wise decision.
Don't fly out a woman you barely know and expect things to go well. And no, chatting with her on the internet does not mean he knows her. He spent $5,000 on a complete stranger. Just hire an escort if you want guaranteed sex. Putting her on blast on the internet didn't help anything, just made him look more pathetic.
🎯
!!!!!!
Stop pretending women are stup1d. She knew what she was doing
Bro watched too much fresh and fit and thought he could fly out some random chick and automatically get 😺
I think, to be a little fairer, everyone in these comments is ignoring the important contextual fact that it is dangerous to be 100% upfront and clear about sex work agreements in the US. SWIM who does actual escort work still only communicates in very strong implications rather than totally explicit agreements. Uncle Sam is as much at fault for this situation as either the man or the woman.
This is the reason I do coffee or park dates when I first meet someone. There’s no reason why a man should expect sex on a first date. And there’s no reason a woman should expect a man to spend a lot of money on a first date.
Id be wary of anyone who didnt want sex either on a first date or early in the dating process. It would mean they either just arent attracted, or think of sex as something to trade. Really you shouldnt be dating someone you dont already know and like
@bobbrian6526 Sex is about intimacy. Trust is hard to earn so quickly, and vulnerable things like sex should come with time and patience. It's normal to feel desire, but no one should be a slave to their urges.
@@bobbrian6526 Why are you wary? Attraction and trust take time to build. It sounds as if you just want to pump and dump. In any case don't men despise women who have sex very early on? Sex has greater risks for a woman; she should be more cautious. I'd be VERY wary of a man who expects sex on a first date.
Mine and my husband’s first date was over coffee 💕
@@rejectionisprotection4448 yes I agree. I would never go out with any guy who thought he was entitled to sex, especially early in the relationship. We don't know each other. I'm not going to take on the risk of catching venereal diseases, having an unplanned pregnancy, needing to pay for an abortion, and the threat of sexual assault for a guy who is still a relative stranger. Not to mention, dudes who want to rush into sex are usually terrible at sex because they don't care about building any kind of growing sexual tension with their partner, so there's also that.
I've always said that cammaraderie and friendship are the most sincere forms of love. The rest is just lust. Sex is not love.
I wish that were the norm but unfortunately we are mostly driven by lust and entitlement dating is so dehumanising
Sex can be part of love. Consensual sex can be a very enjoyable mixture of intimacy and fun imo. It's just that sex can't be the basis or even cause of love, especially with a stranger, not matter how attraktive they are.
Very feminine point of view. You cannot understand men's needs so you project them as evil lust. Also you are completely fine with being manipulative to extort men;s resources.
@@paulinemoira8442 this.
Who do you choose to lust after then?
That guy at the beginning is scary, she's sitting there because he's blocking the door, he said "you can leave" and she immediately started to leave so he's like "no wait a minute", just a scary dude that I'd never want to be stuck alone in a room with if he wanted something from me. Acting like a child in a grown man's body.
The guy wasted 5K on her, I can't exactly blame him for being pissed off but I agree with you with you on the scary part.
@@mrtyrant1680 Andrew Tate did him wrong.
@@mrtyrant1680 he shouldn’t have gotten into a situation where he would be pissed in the first place. He shouldn’t have lavished all that money on her without establishing trust and a reciprocal relationship. The fact that he did that so he could have sex with a model, and she refused; he should not have had those expectations in the first place. It was wrong of her to lead him on (assuming she did) but she does not owe anyone access to her body.
Men need to stop equating money spent in dates with sex. Especially when they complain about high body counts, non-virgins and single moms (who had to have sex in order to get pregnant). Also, don’t spend money you don’t have. That’s for everyone.
@@mrtyrant1680 he shouldn't have expected every woman out there to be an escort
I cant help but think I'm not cut out for dating at all with how complex and manipulative it all seems. Monk life it is
Just take sex out of the equation. It’s not difficult at all then.
Nothing wrong with the monk life. Go for it👍🏽
Same here, but Im a girl. I hate indirect signs! Look for the same type, it will work out :)
Honestly same, even relationships all just look bleak to me
same
As a guy that has had some very bad dating experiences, I can honestly say that the best friendships I've ever had were with women. Unlike men, they aren't constantly trying to compete with you and they don't get uncomfortable or mock you when you open up about sensitive topics. They were basically the platonic equivalent of everything I imagined romantic 'relationships' to be before I became disillusioned with dating. I think it is these friendships that prevented me from being sucked down the manosphere/black-pill whirlpool. If the only interactions you have with people are in the context of a transactional market, you're probably going to start seeing them as commodities rather than people.
Perhaps stop making friends with creepy men? There's plenty of men out there with healthy masculinity
You can call it what you want.
If you want to think of it as a marketplace, then the laws of Supply and Demand still apply.
Naturally, the value of the marketplace will trend upwards, but there will still be recessions and downturns from time to time.
You can't beat the market, but if you invest early then you will have a better chance of reaping rewards later. Women mature faster than men. Go figure.
Simp
So glad you have friends who are women ❤️ my closest friends are dudes and they also remind me there are good guys out there.
You are a safe, beta orbiter to your female friends. Embrace the "compete." You don't need to win, but you will gain respect and friendship from your fellow men in whatever field of competition you choose. My friends and I have gone to the wall for each other...no woman outside of your mother or (maybe) wife will ever stick their neck out for you.
I've noticed that in a situation where a woman SEEMS to be unclear about the messages she's giving out, she gets heavily criticised and is told that she should've been clear and direct and "got what she deserved".
But when a man is DELIBERATELY unclear, as in this situation, then he gets a free pass and isn't expected to be accountable.
Sheesh.
I agree. He should’ve ordered a sex worker if that’s what he wanted
Thought I was the only one
Yup they say accountability is a Morden women kryptonite but when it’s a male he’s ‘confused’ and ‘ taking things slow’. This is why they blame women for the friendzone bs!!
Amateurism is about being unclear.
@@missandry2669 Accountability has always been a male kryptonite. The thing with modern men is they project all of their toxic masculine flaws onto women. And it's painfully obvious.
No ill will towards any gender; I just think this “sexual marketplace” stuff has fried a lot of people’s brains, and it’s becoming easier and easier to know who sees me as an actual person deserving of love and respect, and who sees me as a convenient tool, trophy, or toy. There’s way more of the latter these days, so I don’t really feel too bad about dropping out of dating.
As a Dutch woman this is absolutely insane. When we go on a date, especially the first date, we split the bill. This is because we are equals, we do not like being viewed as less in any way. When you really like each other you will take turns paying for dates. The idea that I would demand someone 'put out' because I paid for the date is just bonkers. It reeks of disrespect and gives off the idea that dating equals prostitution.
Do you not want a man to ask you out and then take you out?
equals? but women are inferior yet men pay to make them happy! it just makes sense.
Men and women are equal but very different. Hence why the man pays and it does not then make the woman less. We can be equal on top of acknowledging nuances between men and women it’s in our biology.
@@lialifts We do but we don't want it under the pretense that something sexual will happen. A lot of men aren't traditional anymore despite them wanting to go back to the "good ol' days," because back then a lot of courting happened and it wasn't sex-based either.
Wait, the Dutch literally go Dutch? I thought this was just a meme! lol
While I think it’s dishonest to let someone spend huge sums of money on you if you have no intentions of giving them what they expect and not communicating what you’re in for, ultimately the guy is in the wrong. People have the right to withdraw consent at any point. What if she was genuinely interested but didn’t feel attracted to him when they met in person? She wasn’t a sex worker, that was “a date” (an expensive one), you don’t get to act like you were purchasing a product if that wasn’t an explicit agreement
Direct quote from the TikTok:
W: I don't have to **** you though.
M: *I ain't saying you did.*
W: I just came to have a good time.
M: *You knew what it was though. You knew what it was.*
What I got from it is that he isn't saying she can't withdraw consent. He's saying that he feels lied to and cheated out of what he was led to believe he'd be expecting based on the conversations they'd had on Instagram "for months". He is most definitely in the wrong. That doesn't, however, negate from her being wrong from her vantage point knowing all too well that she wasn't going to sleep with him the whole time (which would have meant him not flying her out and paying for their trip), nor does it negate from him being an idiot who only has himself to blame. He created the situation and must take responsibility for it - life's tough. He is most definitely not entitled to sex.
Approaching relationships from a market-based mentality leads to people believing that they are entitled to either (in her case) having a man spend thousands of dollars on me because modern society says I have high S.M.V [as an Instagram model] or (in his case) having women sleep with me because I've demonstrated that I'm a high value male re. my money and lifestyle. Both parties feel entitled to something. Her "entitlements" were met and his, clearly, weren't. As I said, life's tough and I don't feel sorry for him.
@@KidologyCO I think it is an asshole move on her part and I get his frustration. My problem with this argument is that if she were interested and then changed her mind, there would be no dishonesty on her part, and the guy would still flip out. Because he doesn’t understand or accept that consent can be withdraw at anytime.
@@ludmilamaiolini6811 although I understand your argument and I agree. The problem is there are too many bad actors -men and women- I’ve seen plenty of women use your exact argument to exploit lonely men for expensive gifts, dinners and trips. To me this mindset is best exhibited by the social media girls that flirt or show interest in men that live in cities they want to travel to and arrange to be flown out for a “romantic” or “sexual” weekend. Only to then display little to no interest when they arrive.
@@burningice15 there are certainly people who exploit that, but that doesn’t mean consent is up to discussion. I don’t disagree about the sexual market analysis, I just think it was important to point out that the situation could happen without bad faith. Perhaps a way to solve the issue would be to make these people pay for their own trips, or at least half. Or sign a contract saying that they are doing paid sex work and if they don’t want to go through, they have to reimburse their clients 😅
@@ludmilamaiolini6811 this is why men have transitioned from dinner dates to walk in the park ones. Some women are mad about it but it’s their sister’s fault for taking advantage of well intentioned men
I sometimes feel weird for wanting a potential relationship to grow out of a friendship first. I think relationships that start from that friendship basis are much stronger, and as someone who isn't quick to trust others, if I have already known someone for a long time as a friend I would also feel a lot more comfortable to perhaps explore something beyond that. That really doesn't seem to be the norm nowadays.
honestly i can't imagine my relationship growing out of friendship... it just feels like something that won't happen
@@blevota7391 wow, I literally have no way to understand this point of view. It’s unfathomable to me. Could you explain this? I’d love to hear more about this
@@blevota7391 i would honestly like that but life has so far proven that to be impossible for me. With me the friendship grows out of love for one another.
I grew up thinking that that's how it works in most cases. And my demisexaulity makes it especially difficult for me. I won't know wether or not i'm attracted to you yet after only the first date...
I feel exactly the same way. It makes dating seem a lot more daunting because your options are more limited, but I don’t feel that way right away either.
When dating, my approach was to send a "risky" text during the talking stage. If she responded with the same energy, I knew I was good to go, and it would just naturally escalate from there. If she shut it down then I would just drop it, apologize, and move on. If she said she liked me but wasn't there yet, then I would just give it time and not push it. This approach has always worked well for me and, it was a way to let them know my intentions, without being too direct. I am a very "go with the flow" type of person, don't like to force things.
I see a lot of younger men struggle with this. They are either too direct, so they come off as creeps. Or they don't communicate their intentions at all, and basically try to trick or bribe women into sleeping with them.
That's actually good advice.
That sounds like great advice! Could I ask what a risky text might look like?
"escalate" is such a disgusting word in this context
Catch 22
Social media and internet porn has ruined younger men and warped them into what the current market sex system is
crazy how it went from being called courting to now a sexual marketplace smh.
@@LilithsCosmicLounge sounds like men should just have sex with each other then... keep 'their' women 'pure' and they gets to have sex with no responsibilities attached. It's a win win /s
@Lilith’s Moon🌓 yeah in our yearly manosphear meeting, " virgin not being worth it" was above the andrew tate speech and under how do we make single moms ( sarcasm)
You can call it what you want.
If you want to think of it as a marketplace, then the laws of Supply and Demand still apply.
Naturally, the value of the marketplace will trend upwards, but there will still be recessions and downturns from time to time.
You can't beat the market, but if you invest early then you will have a better chance of reaping rewards later. Women mature faster than men. Go figure.
Late capitalism
@@LilithsCosmicLounge "fell for it"- wanted to have sex too. But instead of having a mature sexually aware population we decided to punish each other for perceived slights.
I think a lot of it comes down to communication. People either don't know what they want so they can't express it, or they do know what they want but expressing it risks them being rejected (i.e. dude wanted sex but probably thought saying that straight out in the beginning would have led to the girl saying no to coming at all; girl wanted a free vacation but knew saying she wouldn't fuck would make the dude not get her flewed out)
I think both knew what the other person wanted. He wanted sex. She wanted pictures and videos in a luxurious environment and putting it of and avoid the sex all together.
He knew there was a risk of wasting his money.
They are both playing games.
He is trying to save face by puting that rant on the interwebs.
Yes, he should have told her he wanted sex and she could have said yes or no. Or she could have said I won’t guarantee sex but I do want to meet and spend time. Then they could have decided. But nope didn’t happen that way. He assumed she would know he wanted sex. And she wanted to get a free vacay and most likely knew he wanted sex but wanted to do her own thing.
I would have told straight up. I want to go have fun but I ain’t promising the kitty Kat. Lmao 😂
@@thijsjongLying to get what you want deffo originated from men.
@@meadowc6058 waaaah
The irony of all this is that they both got not what they wanted, but what they deserved. In the end, dating is a very old dance that follows a two step forward and one step back routine. If you violate that basic principle, you will sit down.
He chose to waste those 5k. That's on him. Unless he told her "I'm paying you this with the condition that you'll have sex with me" then he can't blame her for anything. No person owes sex to other, and no person is entitled to sex. People can spend all the money they want but that doesn't grant them anything.
@C Exactly! Even then she has the right to change her mind
so happy so no one is entutled to being helped right base off this so someone can walk away from anyone without helping them and it wont be wrong right
This market way of thinking has always made me so wary of letting anyone pay for me. In any context, not just romantic, etc. I never want anyone holding something over my head and being made to feel I "owe" anyone something I am not willing to give. I'm nervous about any (potential) future offers for dates for this reason... It just sucks, man.
I feel like it happens all the time to almost every girl. I'm not even really attractive, but years ago (around 10 years ago) I went on a couple of dates with a couple of guys, and while I wasn't necessarily interested in a relationship at that point and first off I just wanted to get to know them better before I decide anything (you know, just some human to human interaction) I had this constant feeling that on every date they expected something from me, something more. I'm not saying they were counting on having seggz with me there and then, but I could feel that on second or even first date they already wanted me to let them know whether I want to be their girlfriend or not. It gave off vibes of "tell me asap because if not then I don't know if you're worth my time and energy". Chill out, my dudes, I just wanted to get to know you a bit. It really feels like a hunt, or a twisted transaction, like we are girl machines where guys put their coins in, and expect us to immediately give them something (disproportionely bigger) in return. What happened to simply getting to know each other and naturally slowly falling in love the more you know the other person?
Them days are finished 😂
we are in the social media, dopamine overload generation.
How'd you rate those guys looks wise? Were they on a similar level as yourself or higer than you?
@@newperson9662 umm I'd say they were of similar attractiveness at the time ..? It shouldnt matter though
@@xXNekou You say you're not conventionally attractive, so that would mean you went out with guys who were also not attractive. Are you sure about this, because they must have been at least above average in looks.
@@newperson9662 attractiveness is 100% subjective, and besides that's not the point of what I was trying to say
I can see complaining to your friends about the situation but this is wild. He played himself, she played along. They are both goofy but his inability to accept his L was sickening.
@@Ynh932 it shouldn’t just be on the women to make sure he’s safe. He clearly has a voice to say if his expectation is sex it’s not on her to guess
@@Ynh932 we are analyzing these socieatal interactions instead of saying this so how it is and just accepting life. We can say hey this is wrong and perhaps get better results. Now I have no idea why you are talking about being broken and crying or visualizing the perfect relationship. I can only assume this is from projection?
@@Ynh932 is that not societal interactions? You are the one who try to project onto me about being broken hearted and now dumb. Your aggression is just proving your projection
@@Ynh932Honestly when I hung out with guys that weren't my friend I genuinely didn't know there were expectations like you said "oh if he invites you to his house it's because he wants to have sex or something", I honestly wouldn't think much of it lol it's such a shame that everything has to be sexual
I don't agree that the two people in the opening clip deserve each other. That man was scary, reminds me of my abusive ex. We were in a relationship when he flew me out from London to New York, and because of this financial expense he expected me to obey his every command like a slave and he screamed at me when I said no. I had to call the police, it was terrifying. These men who fly out girls are often not honest about their expectations, and they use money to manipulate and coerce women into sex. It's not an equal give and take at all. Also, I cannot stress how dehumanising it is to have a man (whether you know him or not) expect sex immediately when you have got off a long flight and just touched down and want nothing more than to decompress. We cannot just assume that because a woman is attractive, she is a deceptive user. She may have actually really liked him, and got turned off by his behaviour irl. These guys online don't exactly message saying "so if I fly you out, will you immediately have sex with me as much as I want or nah?" They are not honest. I hope she is okay, because she put herself in danger.
this! It’s pure misogynoir and kidology not tracking that harm makes me worried for her - like how can you watch this and not be kinda worried for this woman????? I hope she’s safe and with people who love her cause he was abusive asf when he didn’t get sex…that’s a rapist
A man who is effectively a stranger who couldn't possibly be interested in to you in a person flies you out he obviously wants sex. To think otherwise is being intentionally obtuse. No disrespect to your terrible experience with manipulative men. But you're projecting your trauma on people you don't even know. Please see a therapist.
@@SnakeTheHat he said she had been talking with him for months - so as far as I’m concerned, that is not a stranger that is a man who wants to have sex with you and won’t say, and then feels entitled because he didn’t seemingly pay enough to get access to you
What a bs take. Drawing parallels between an existing abusive relationship and total strangers
This is a really good take. She definitely put herself in an unsafe position. No doubt. However, this dude thought he was slick. He wanted the escort experience but likely didn’t want to pay for a real escort due to the ego hit.
Why was he spending all that money on “unspoken agreements?” What mature person does that?
It’s not at all that hard to imagine that she met him and he was a gross character with poor social skills. His personality irl could have been a huge turn-off. Or she got there and changed her mind for some other reason, which is her right to do because she was not a hired professional. She was on a date.
It’s so confusing why people who want transactional relationships don’t just hire a professional with contracts and terms clearly negotiated. Otherwise, a person is not obligated to do anything for you no matter what you’ve done or given them. Keeping it real, even professionals can change their mind and offer a refund. I’ve heard of it happening.
Why is this so hard for an adult to understand? If you want a transaction, hire a professional. Period.
Yeah when I sleep over at my friend's houses no one expects sex for it. Sometimes is wrong if you think that's normal 😂 or is couchsurfing just escorting? I'd rather pay to rent a room
Yes why would my friend expect s3x as payment for me staying at their place. Is friendship not being able to ask or do favors for each other without owing s3x??? I do not understand.
are your friends flying you out to meet them and spending thousands of dollars on you? what was the point of your comment?
@@pabloescobarschanclas yeah she should bend over and take it so he gets back what he’s owed… yall are insane. smh
Yeah, Kidology’s “friend” sounds suspect. I have never imagined a situation where a friend of owes me something for staying at my place while traveling. And certainly not s*x.
I rarely comment, but I wish to offer up a different angle. Many people in the comments don’t believe that unconditional love is healthy so wish to offer a clarifying idea.
Love and trust are things that go together. Relationships need a foundation of trust to feel emotionally safe. You can trust someone and not love them, and love someone and not trust them. But you need both in a relationship. Unconditional love doesn’t mean unprotected, it means trusting the other person to protect you from themselves. In my humble opinion, unconditional love isn’t achievable without trust. Unconditional love, I think, is when you trust someone so much that you believe that they WONT screw you over and therefore you don’t feel the need to control them or put limitations on them. You don’t need to put limits or control people who control their own actions and a make a conscious effort not to do things that would hurt you. It doesn’t mean a lack of self respect.
I wouldn’t even consider a relationship unless I considered the person trustworthy. Trust is the baseline but not a condition. Trust is the foundation to even consider starting a relationship with. if that person cheats, they’ve broken the foundation of trust and therefore the relationship. You cannot have a healthy relationship/ dynamic with someone if it’s not emotionally safe and then someone cheats, you’re no longer emotionally safe and then feel the need to control because you feel out of control.
Self respect comes when you walk out of the relationship if they break your trust. If there isn’t trust there cant be anything that isn’t toxic. I’m not saying you should forgive cheating at all from the previous statement. In fact I’m saying the opposite. But remember that you don’t ever have a reason to limit someone who actually cares about you because valuing the relationship means they don’t WANT to betray your trust. Why would you have to limit someone who doesn’t want to go there.
I liked your comment a lot~
Amazing… I completely agree!
I have to disagree. In my opinion, unconditional love only can exist in a parent-child relationship. Adult relationships are conditional. And I think that's how it should be.
He could have skipped the bullshit and bought a high class escort for all that... Just saying.
geez 5K on a escort, I can't even imagine
if i felt like splurging, i would probably just get a brazzers account for like, a month. then cancel
and a VR headset
@@RollOnVlogs would have gotten way more for way less money.
@@RollOnVlogs but he really wanted physical intimacy it seems and he was willing to pay 5k for a girl who he didn't even know would consent, I agree he should've just gotten an escort
Man, this world seriously needs more genuine human connection on an emotional, human level. More of that, less of these games and dehumanizing of both men and women. Thank you Kidology, you are very smart and don't listen to the haters please.
First dates are for getting to know you and seeing if there is a mutual attraction. If he can't affort first dates that are this expensive, he should switch to dating locally and in some cheaper arrangements, such as smaller restaurants, walks in the park etc. There are many women who would be ok with that, but it seems to me that he is not ok with dating those women. He wants to live an illusion of a rich men/beautiful women lifestyle. Which is ok, to each their own, but then you have to be ok with spending money sometimes and not getting anything in return. You can't behave like money means nothing to you the whole time, and then cry over spent money at the end of the night, it's tacky and looks bad.
Also, him recording her while she clearly wants to leave is not a normal behavior.
There are many girls that don't expect lavish first dates, but these girls are also not investing so much money in their looks because they care to invest their money somewhere else (for instance in their education, business or family). If you want to date girls from a certain culture that is materialistic, and to feel equal to the men that they usually date, you have to pay your fee to sit at that table.
You can't just pay your fee to be a part of the table and expect to win every time. No, you just paid a fee to sit at the table, but maybe your hand sucks or your game is bad.
She is fully right here. She was open and honest. She offers her looks and her presence. He offers money and flashy things. If they click, they can become a couple. If not, fly her back home without yelling, crying and recording her.
If you care so much about your few thousand dollars spent, you can't affort a millionaire lifestyle. Stop pretending you are something you are not and living above your means.
Exactly
I think we all know why he does what he does. He thinks it makes him look powerful. I actually feel sorry for that guy who thinks he has nothing to offer than his money.
@@Laura-gd4ku it is sad, yes. He is dehumanizing himself.
You are so right.
You said it all, the women they can "afford" they don't want.
There was always some sort of sexual marketplace. This marketplace of today - could we say that, with all the freedom, it simply became very de-regulated? And surely way too fast to allow making any kind of meaningful connection. Dating apps are meeting apps - if you want something more, you have to do it yourself, as it always was. There's no outsourcing emotional work.
As for these two, you said it, they deserve each other. What kind of person (of any gender) offers/accepts that kind of money and perks shower to/from a stranger?
I'm only 5 minutes in but I just can't believe people think they're entitled to intercourse. I say this as a man. I find it so creepy that people think that they are entitled to it just because they've been nice to someone or given someone a place to stay. The 'friend' you reference is a complete creep.
If we're charitable, it could've been a misunderstanding like "oh I thought that you're interested in me since you came to my house and will be staying with me here". Thinking you'll have sex with someone =/= thinking you're entitled to it. Though if it was the second case, yeah, you're right.
Why are women entitled to scamming men though?
@@Wind_Falcon Of course they aren't. But if a woman doesn't feel comfortable about sleeping with you then you aren't entitled to throw a tantrum about it; irrespective of whether you bought her some things.
If you're that desperate for intercourse then see a 'lady of the night.'
@@itsmyytaccount8498 I'm not talking and didn't say anything about being entitled to sex though. I'm talking about scamming. Any women that posts provocative pics on the internet (let alone Instagram) and has any sort of even small popularity gets unambiguous money for sex offers. These women know exactly what is going on when wealthy men give them money/gifts/take them to expensive places (just as literally everyone figures this out immediately even from just the smallest details, people aren't idiots). It's a premeditated scam. It's not a case of bad communication like Kidology mistakenly asserts. The woman knows EXACTLY what the man thinks and wants and why he is doing what he does. And these kind of situations are extremely common, even in more simple dating scenarios - women going on dates and expect to have a good time and pay zero for it while knowing the guy has no chance for anything. She should just not go on such dates, or pay her portion of the bill herself, not scam the guy.
I'm also trying to think of other examples where you get scammed. IMO if someone scammed you on the street you can kick their ass. But even if not going that far, you can certainly kick up a stink. I mean people go ballistic in supermarkets, restaurants or when their phone company does something shitty. How is it not OK for someone that intentionally scammed you not to get an earful and to get the fear of god shouted into them?
In every other case its seen as OK and justified, but if a woman leads on, manipulates and scams a man, than he's the immature one for going ballistic? That's an outright sexist view.
It's these sorts of attitudes exactly that breed this type of garbage women and resentful men. If there are no consequences, not even some yelling - what's stopping this behaviour then?
I don't get why you would even defend her/this type of women. Some misplaced female solidarity? She's a horrible human being, why extend her that?
I agree with you on the last point though, I don't get why these rich dudes don't just get nice prostitutes or wow some wall fly simple plain poor girl which will absolutely worship any such guy that gives her attention.
@@Wind_Falcon Why don’t men make their intentions clear from the beginning then? Explicitly state that they’re expecting to have sex
I flew a woman over to meet with me once. I paid her airfare, all her expenses while here and a week of her salsry. We both understood the situation and were on the same page. I think you have to be direct in these situations.
Bro tried to be sneaky and coercive instead of being direct and honest. He deserves what he got.
@@vettie Exactly. However I will say that the woman is only wrong for not making her intentions clear therefore being manipulative. The man decided to pay for expensive food and stuff, and being entitled to sex from a stranger is wild.
And this is perfect. Consenting adults who are communicating expectations. I hear men say all the time in "jokes" that if he told a woman he only wanted sex or expected sex at x time she wouldn't give him the time of day. Maybe that was the case at one point but it's not true anymore.
@@avacadocap9591 Do you have this same expectation for men when they lead women on for commitment and relationships in order to have sex with a woman?
But marriage and sex was always marketized. I mean, I agree that capitalism is perking up this aspect many notches, but romantic love and selfless love, that is not about bringing together two properties or two businesses is kinda new. Even the poorest of families that married off their daughters expected something out of it. And if marriages is a contract, sex was always an unspoken but sure item on the list. To me it seems like it is just more honest, more in the open. The ugly is not covered up by talks of heavenly unions.
It feels reflective of the ideology of the present society to say "well it was always commodetized/marketized" - even if there is an element of truth to it. Ideologies tend to justify their existence historically, in the form of the myth that, even if people didn't see it, the way things are is how they always were and always will be. I don't think it's accurate to negate that as an element of the past. Sex and love have never been purely aesthetic categories. But I do think it's fair to say that one of the things that has changed is that we have removed many forces and beliefs (societal, religious, and communal) that would have acted as a counterbalance to "relation purely as market transaction". I'm sure people will disagree with me on this one, but I really think that this idea that "well, it was always this way" is more resignation to the present structure than affirmation of truth.
It’s always been, I think technology makes us think we can just skip out on actual communication entirely and just assume the other assumes they know what they’re thinking.
I think those last three sentences are very though provoking.
One common misconception
It was the reverse in a lot of the lower strata of traditional societies. The family with the daughter actually had to pay to the family with the son because the daughter constituted another mouth to feed that wasn't as productive as a male.
The original story of Santa Clause was him providing gifts to a family with three girls that was too poor to marry them off.
@@chadmwilliams89 Not as productive? In what way? I'd imagine that she'd be assisting her husband in whatever work he was doing until she became pregnant. How can having a family not be seen as productive?
as someone raised in a conservative environment, I absolutely hate both traditional marriage and dating apps. Furthermore, I have trouble finding a realistic way (that I approve of) of finding a partner.
people sometimes say: "my partner is my best friend"
you said as well: "befriend your partner before you descend into consuming"
but how realistic is it, that two people fall into friendship and then love without indulging their desires? it's basically fantasy, and for that reason, I'm very nihilistic when it comes to love and relationships.
I wouldn't call myself an incel, not at all but the only time I tried confessing my feelings to a friend, it blew up in my face and in retrospect, I don't know how it couldn't.
it's just statistically unlikely for two people to have the same feelings for each other at the same rate.
You can be close friends and also give into your desires. That’s the hope in finding consummate love: passion, intimacy, and commitment.
I’m sorry that your forays into romance went to badly. I just want you to know that humans are built to form connections and to love each other. It’s possible to find people out that you click with. Just keep searching, and stay true to yourself, your values, and convictions.
The best way in my opinion is a mix for traditional and modern ways of courting/dating. If you are a man you should be crystal clear with what you want and need from the very beginning. Be a confident flirt but at the same time respectful. I also disagree with the notion of being a friend first and then turn it into romance. Romantic and sexual intentions should be crystal clear to the other party from the get go. If she is fine with that you can go to the next phase which is the courting. In my opinion it's best to avoid sex for atleast 6 months in order to first bond with the person in a more spiritual level. Get to know them deeper as a human being first. Once familiarity, trust and comfort is established you can proceed to bonding sexually as well. I think that's the best way. (Waiting till marriage in most cases can be as disastrous as sex on the first date. Avoid the extremes I guess)
Unless the first thing you think when you meet is "wow he/she is hot" no relationship can ever happen. My best friend is my partner, we met online and later in person. He used to live in a different city, too far fo a relationship so we were just friends for the longest time but I always thought of him as handsome. Once you get to know someone, love them and they're also attractive that's all you need.
@@Alwaysttango Agreed that there needs to be attraction. A question for you. Let's say you meet a guy and you are attracted to him and all his other qualities are great too. You get together, form a serious relationship. And after 2-3 years he starts balding. Suddenly you aren't physically attracted to him anymore. What do you do? Do you think you have the right to break up for such a reason? I have the controversial opinion that you have every right no matter how shallow it seems. Cause physical attraction isn't something we can control. What's your opinion?
>”but how realistic is it, that two people fall into friendship and then love without indulging their desires?”
Omg dear, but this is not fantasy at all! Thats EXACTLY what drives me crazy nowadays!
People just seem to have forgotten the fact that for a very long time up until a couple years ago, most of relationships (in western culture at least) were created exactly like this... i clearly remember dating apps were for rather older people (think widowed, after divorces etc, where its not so easy to "jump" back in), or people with some living situations/issues/whatever that could not meet people outside. If anyone at my highschool used a dating app we would think they're crazy, and i graduated hs 9 years ago, so NOT ages ago lol.
Me and my friends always had boyfriends that we'd known before - from work, via friends, through an event etc - that we befriended first. Sure maybe some flirtation thrown there and there in some cases, but besides that - just meeting them on parties with other friends, texting and so on! The "talking" phase - and one that is NOT focused on romance solely!! - is so, so important...
And this also prevents this weird type of situation that dating apps provide - when the person you meet is completely detached from your natural surroundings - friends, coworkers, family, neighbors, whatever. And there comes that weird moment where you get to know their friends, and you feel like a total loner/weirdo sitting down with them. Like wtf!?
The notion of going straight to the romance phase is ABSOLUTELY INSANE to me. I could NOT imagine meeting someone, jumping into relationship first and then getting to know them basically?!? How do you all even BUILD TRUST SO EASILY? 😵💫
And besides that, if such person has some concerning habits or history, they can completely hide it when you meet them via an app! I need to know there is SOMEONE that is not them that has been able to kinda observe and interact with that person before me & who would simply TELL ME if they knew there were any red flags!
please dont let this whole insanity get to your head, people are creating relationships organically and its the normal and healthy way.
/rant
It's perfectly fine if a person no longer wants sex in their long-term relationship. However at the same time, it's a bit unfair if that person then demands that their partner be forbidden from seeking it elsewhere (if that partner still desires it.) If a satisfying compromise and/or alternate arrangements cannot be reached, then I don't view it as artificial or shallow to call it quits. You can love and respect someone, but yet still have needs that are no longer in alignment.
Totally agree
Its totally fine to open a relationship but maybe first do some research on why the other partner does not want to have sex anymore and work on that before you quickly demand to seek sex elsewhere.
At first you need to talk about why the other person doesn't want sex. Are they not getting anything from it? If the sex is good, most people don't turn it down. Or maybe the partner is depressed or has health problems that need to be addressed? Work as a couple before going with open realationship, they rarely work out.
@@Laura-gd4ku nobody said leave immediately jfc but if your partner suddenly refuses any sex and demands that you suck it up, there's a huge problem with that. and yes, communicate but if the nonsex partner refuses to look at any compromise then you don't have a lot of remaining options. no one should be forced into celibacy by their partner.
@@megsley I am not assuming thats what you meant, I just wanted to add that to your comment. Because Ive seen it that (mostly men) partners are not willing to adress issues in the bedroom and then it becomes a dead bedroom because one side is not willing to put in work and than demands to have sex (usually in a very convient way for them) outside of the relationship.
Love you kid. Your videos are always engaging and the comment section is usually a place I feel like I can hear reasonable people give their opinions and I don't care about their personal political identification.
Thank you; that means a lot, truly💋.
13:45 I agree 100% with this. I was taught at a younger age that what I should look for in a person romantically is what’s in their heart, and how they treat other people. Society teaches us to look at their appearance, social status, income, political affiliation etc. instead and it’s sad to see.
I totally agree. All my relationships stemmed from friendships. I knew these guys for months, if not years, before we started dating.
I don't remember ever being attracted to someone that I didn't know, just based on seeing them pass me by. Which is why dating apps aren't doing anything for me.
I don’t feel she’s in the wrong at all. He basically offered her multiple expensive dates. Effort and gifts don’t equate to a right of intimacy. Not to mention if certain men are going to act like 5k is ‘nothing’ to them. He had ulterior motives and she decided to take him up on his offer. It was their first time meeting, maybe she realized she wasn’t attracted to him? Who knows. If men are going to pretend to like women to get s€x then they shouldn’t be surprised when women run their own game on them. He took a risk at the end of the day and it’s his fault.🤷🏽♀️
yeah but nah. She knew the deal and what he was expecting, so she played him. he has every right to be angry. he doesnt have a right to sex if she says no, or to be violent, but he has every right to be angry
I think the part where she is in the wrong is, you have to delusional to think a guy is willing to do all that for nothing in return. She most definitely knew he'd want sex in return but still went along with because she wanted to be spoiled. She also could've clarified before all this by telling him not to expect sex, but again, she most probably knew he'd lose interest in her and not give her all the luxury. Yes, the guy is definitely the biggest clown here, but she put herself in an obviously shitty situation, and maybe even a dangerous situation if this clown turned out to be a psychopath. They're definitely not equally wrong becausethe guy is a total dumbass lmao
@@bobbrian6526 He can be upset, anyone can be upset about anything. He can’t help how he feels. However, the problem is how he chose to express those feelings and it still doesn’t make the situation her fault. He made assumptions. Communication is key. Should women start denying dates and offers because a man *may* expect sex? Key word is expect because as women we know men want sex regardless. Sex isn’t implied by effort. Before every date should we say, “Hey before you spend money and effort on me I should let you know I don’t want to have sex with you at this moment”.
She basically beat him at his own game.
Which makes me wonder, why don't these men pay for actual hœkers instead? That's clear cut and very transactional and he would never have problems like this.
@@bobbrian6526 I'm not sure that it's universal knowledge that if a man takes you on a trip and gives you gifts, that he's expecting sex following the first date/meeting. Maybe she thought it was the beginning of a courtship. But nope, another stunted fellow who is not able to partake in the process of meeting and forming a relationship with a person organically.
the whole idea of men paying for dates and shit made sense back when women didn’t have proper jobs and were reliant on men for money, but in the modern day it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me and often makes relationships feel transactional. i think it can change from situation to situation, however on most occasions either splitting the bill or alternating (one person pays for one date, the other person pays for the next) is the best way to go.
Though things have changed for women , men still have to abide by the same standards and show they can provide and arnt a broke boy equality at its finest lol
Lmao nooooo babe! If he’s broke don’t fuck him unless you wanna pay 50/59 then do you
@@blaydenjayben"Broke women" is also undesirable though, not on the same length but it's becoming more and more prominent
Personally, I agree and would never let a man pay for me. But it's not because I think things are perfectly equal. Women still make significantly less money than men, plus do more of the household work. Additionally, men might want to sweeten the deal because dating is simply riskier for women, looked at from a market perspective: people with vagina's are more likely to contract diseases during sex due to micro tearing, women are far less likely than men to orgasm during a hook-up, there's the risk of pregnancy, women are more likely than men to be murdered by a potential partner, and the rates of rape and assault are, while debatably, probably suggestive that women are more likely to be endangered by their partners. Finally, there are the pre-date costs: shaving, waxing, eyebrows, make-up: women spend far more money and time than men to maintain themselves and be physically appearing. Sometime I bet the thinking is just, "if I'm going to wax my hoo-ha, then, it had better be worth it."
@@hang1iderswing That's why I love a patriarchal society. It just works.
I mean, the guy is in the wrong for not just going to Amsterdam or Nevada. He basically paid for a high class escort without any guarantee that she'd screw him. They have services and tried and true methods to do this that have pioneered for millennia. There's absolutely no reason to fly out an IG model.
Obviously the model was deceptive, and took advantage of him, but he set himself up for even going along with this idea. He's obviously not an Arab prince, so he doesn't have it like that to waste money courting these types of women. He could do everything he was planning on doing for a fifth of that price if he just went to a brothel in Western Europe.
No, the guy is in the wrong here. She has the right to refuse sex at any time, regardless of how much money he spent. That's how consent works. Yes, even if she was manipulating him in the end. The fact that some men still don't get this is disturbing. Sex isn't something you're owed from someone else just because you threw some money at them. Even sex workers have the right to refuse you. Come on now, it's 2022. He freely spent his money. If he now regrets it, that's a him problem.
100%. It’s upsetting and discouraging to see how many people in this comment section disagree with this.
Also can we please talk about that we can not compare losing money on someone with losing your bodily autonomy! Its way worse and traumatic to be raped than to have "wasted" money on something or somewhen.
Could not agree more!! It’s very worrying
"Even sex workers have the right to refuse you." On condition that they also accept that no payment is made.
No payment = no service, both party walk away freely.
I like how the chain of consequence stop at the woman is wrong for manipulating the man, but not one step further, which is the woman doing the right thing by paying back the money to the man, even partially.
Even at the last minute, this woman still think she's slick and she can get away with it.
How come no one talk about how the man has already lost his end of the bargain, his money and time and still at the last moment, he still have the courtesy to censor this woman's face ?
Being manipulative is wrong, she knew he expected sex and she should have declined the vacation. He should have been clear that he expects sex before spending all that money. Also, saying what year it is isn´t an argument.
Crazy times we live in. I met my boyfriend on bumble. It tooks like 2.5 months to kiss and about 3.5 months to have sex. We made dinner together, gave each other book recommendations, just enjoyed each other's company. Modern dating is atrocious and I'm so glad to be done with the apps for the time being.
In a microwave society, waiting for 3 months can now be viewed as an anecdote on self control and patience. Interesting times.
Is he conventionally attractive?
I can’t be the only one who’s extremely fucking horrified by this video and most of the comment section, right? They’re not “equally wrong”. She didn’t “know what she was getting into” , not for certain. Would you continue this line of thought had he stepped it up a notch? What if it wasn’t just screaming at her, humiliating her on Instagram live. Would she have known what she’d gotten into then? You all realise the implications of that, right?
In what world does being vain and liking expensive dates even slightly equate to the flaws of the guy here? Rather than be an adult and directly communicate he definitely wants s3x by the end of the night, and she could refuse over text, he chose to drop thousands for a woman he *doesn’t fucking know*, entirely so he can make her feel like she owes him her body. It’s his own stupidity and quite frankly - borderline predatory mindset talking. He 100% got himself into this. There will always be shallow people, it’s up to you to not be a fucking child and wise up to the fact people’s boundaries cannot be “bought”. You cannot assume that because you court someone, they’ll “probably” want to do you. There’s hundreds of thousands of leaflets, posts, blogs, news articles and videos out there discussing this aspect of consent so explicitly that he has no excuse for such a 1950’s view of women.
Agreed. And this doesnt even always correlate with how much is spent. Some guys do think they can spend ANY amount and get sex. I was on a date with a guy who spent 20 dollars on a first date and was subsequently angry that I didn’t want to see him again because Id ‘made him’ spend money on me knowing I wasn’t interested When actually his actions on the actual date had put me off ( he was on his phone 90 % of the time, I was asking ALL the questions and he seemed completely uninterested). Some guys feel entitled to sex regardless of what they put in In terms of effort/ money spent etc. Also, judging by how aggressive and entitled this guy is in the TikTok I wouldn’t want to sleep with him either!
Exactly. That man is a complete LOSER. they are in no way equally wrong, I love kidology but she kind of threw me off there
Obviously the guy is a total scumbag, but she was in the wrong because she put wild amounts of trust in a complete stranger. Imagine if the guy had more nefarious intentions. Just extremely reckless decision making on her part. If someone you really cared about was offered a plane ride and a hotel by a strange man, would you let them go?
She absolutely knew what she was getting into lol. She was clearly exploiting his desire for her to extract resources from him, that is wrong. You’re acting like he attacked her, all he did was get salty and yell at her, she doesn’t owe him anything yes, but he’s also free to say whatever he wants.
Tell me you’re a young woman without telling me you’re a young woman.
Ladies, you deserve a man who will love you every day of the year, not just on the days you want to have sex with him.
Also, kindness is not a product or currency that you can offer in exchange for sex, under any circumstances.
Money should only be offered in exchange for sex when one is procuring the services of a sex worker, someone who is consensually engaging in an exchange of services for money.
No act of kindness, or amount of money (unless as previously stated) should ever be a reason a man expects a sex act from you.
Your body is yours and yours alone, to do with what you want.
All of this applies "even" if you are an Instagram model, or sex worker.
Edit: my point was less about that specific situation, and more about sex being transactional.
Everything I said here applies, to regular ordinary women, and to sex workers and models.
You are way besides the point, this relationship is purely transactional and has nothing to do with love. What the woman in this situation is looking for is having some good time but that doesn't come for free, and what the man is looking for is sex. The problem here is that because the woman does not want to perceive herself and not be perceived as a sex worker this construct has been built where none of the parties will acknowledge this as sex work and will pretend it is some kind of artificial relationship similar to the "sugar daddy" construct. Let's be honest here the woman in this particular video knew what it is implied in this particular situation, but because of the vagueness of this arrangement and the fact that she is in no way obligated to respect her end of the deal she thought she could just cheat that man ... that's just what it is, you don't fly across the country so a stranger can give you flowers and candy.
Yet women will still expect a man to buy her drinks, pay for dinner, and pay for vacations and gifts, otherwise he’s stingy and her friends will tell her to just ghost him. Curious.
Men, you don't deserve anything
- women
He is wrong for paying thousends on a girl he had never met and expecting something in return, she is wrong for accepting it all while she never even had the intention to ever get intimate anyway. Both stupid.
Men have higher sex drive, higher than women, and I don't think that we as women understand that. And I think that it's easier for us to say that we want to be loved even without sex, but for men it's painful. They REALLY think that you don't love them if you don't want to have sex with them. And I'm talking about normal relationships, not those strange encounters like in the video. P.S. Yes, men also need intimacy beside sex and understanding and respect, but they NEED sex.
Better communication would have helped those two to avoid this situation.
Honestly I think they were deliberately trying to get into this situation and see who'd tow a harder line. The fact that it got on TikTok to me is an indication that she towed the harder line and he wasn't expecting and flailing a bit.
part of the reason why i've never been interested in dating apps is because of the modern idea of skipping that important friendship stage. instead i use Bumble BFF with the idea that a potential friend could develop into something more further down the line. however, the problem is that (i assume) most people don't go into the same situation as open-minded. otherwise there'd be no reason why BFF and Dating are two separate categories on the app. how dare i possibly want something more with a friend instead of taking the dating-specific route
Then just use other social networking websites, you can join groups where you make friends and then grow a relationship out of a friendship.
Is Bumble BFF working out well for you (even if just for friends/companions, I'm not talking about a potential partner here)? I was considering using it exactly because it is separate. (I know Tinder and dating apps are often used just for hookups, and it would be fun to actually get to know more people without swimming through a sea of hookups-only accounts).
@@tymondabrowski12 honestly most conversations die out pretty early on. the one time i planned to meet with someone in person it was during finals and she ended up being too busy to meet up but i’m sure making actual friends is possible
Another problem is that the more conventionally attractive, hot guys that you would really want do use the BFF option. They know they can get what they want by being straightforward and dont have to 'waste their time' pretending they want friednship first. On the BFF I came across mostly normie / ok looking guys who you wouldnt swipe right if seeking a hookup. That is just sad from a girls pov
@@newperson9662 It’s unfortunate because women only prefer the top 10% of men for hooking up.
I went on couple of dates and stated in profile that I’m not looking for the hook but yet I’m still face with men trying to manipulate when I say no several time. it’s disgusting you can’t simply get to know people, they just see you as something to sleep with no commitment, it makes hard to find long term because these men are not looking for that but even it does they still go out with girl just to get some and leave while still searching for the one. I have learn to no matter what hold on to my value and not give in.
Most men have come to beleive that women do doublespeak: They say they dont want hook ups, but hook ups with conventionally hot guys anyway, while make less attractive/hot guys wait. Have you been guilty of doing the same?
@@newperson9662 first of all only insure men thinks like that, not all women are like that, maybe that something you do or other men do but most women they don't that's why you see so many men on dating app cheating. If a girl is choosing to wait because she has moral and is not someone that sleep around but then your perception of her, if she say no then respect that to stop trying to manipulate her. Just like how only top men get women just the same as men being picky choosing the top women to wife while sleeping with anyone women even if he doesn't her which is sick and manipulative, but get mad when the top doesn't want them and blame the whole women gender. I ran into normal that were not into me but willing to sleep with me, it sick and is waste of my time because now I have to worry about being attack when I say no. Their are many women dating normal men but they don't get picked and are sleep on.
@@newperson9662 most men that hating on women have the idea that only top men that women look for, majority of us is looking for nice, kind, committed, nerd men but nope we don't get pick and only get used and toss away. That why some of use don't hookup and close our legs.
@@jemima44h Most of you women only feel sick when men in your league want to just sleep with you. You have no issues with sleeping with men above your league. Thats when you feel honored. Stop being a two faced hypocrite and at least be honest.
@@jemima44h Nice, kind men are a two penny and curved by women all their lives. We can see what Black women are interested in.
I don't understand either people in that situation.
Why would you spend thousands to fly a stranger out to you.
Why would you accept a stranger spending thousands to fly you out to him.
Men expecting "something" in return for paying for a date is nothing new, but this is just weird (and so unsafe).
It was basically under the table prostitution. Kinda a unspoken rule.
We live in the age of instant validation men and women are both racing to the top of the lookism hierarchy trying to fine a placement of getting options whether financial or sexual. It’s destroying the people that can’t compete at all.
eat the rich
Very insightful comment on how seeing something as a commodity tends to lead towards wanting to eventually upgrade it!
Looking at my own life, though my one marriage ended, I have a number of multi-decade friendships that I fully expect to last the rest of our lives.
@Kidology, I am so relieved that someone finally spoke about this. With all that has been going on in the manosphere and with the redpill ideology/matrix, this video and your perspective on love is truly a breath of fresh air. I have for long struggled with loneliness and my identity and how it all relates to masculinity and the redpill and I had never seen it the way you talked about it, though it was perhaps there at the back of my mind to a certain extent. I dare the dating gurus and masculinity coaches to talk about this topic without appropriating this into the matrix. The reality of a sexless marriage albeit with love I do find disheartening and stomach-sinking but it is something we might need to talk about more. Wish I could meet you in person to say this, but thanks Kidology!
I'm only 4 seconds in, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the biggest mistake made was him trying to date an Instagram influencer, even before spending 5K. Doesn't anyone meet organically anymore?
Rarely anyone some folks are done with online dating and go out but women who are done with online dating are replacing it with real life they just hope a guy approaches. Guys have to hope in real life that they talk to a girl that’s single.
If someone calls themselves an influencer I would want nothing to do with them let alone go on a date lol. The amount of crap that's uploaded under the umbrella of 'influencing' is unbelievable.
@C I never said that she owed him his body. I actually think he wasn't thinking clearly, assuming that if he drops 5K on her, that she'll sleep with him, or (according to his reaction) she owed him for it all.
But the bigger mistake made, like I said, was trying to date an influencer. Just my personal opinion.
The man is scary and emotionally stunted. Rather than meeting a regular woman in real in life and building a romantic relationship built on something more than physical attraction he wanted to buy an IG model. The model is a user, unkind, and risked her safety. She could have told him there'd be no sex beforehand, but she wanted to be spoiled.
He basically wanted an escort without officially naming it that. He shouldve just bought an escort.
I mean. The man isn't scary or stunted. He's frustrated that the woman takes up his money time attention and energy and is intentionally pretending she doesn't understand that the man is interested in sex. The man isn't owed sex. But the woman knows he wants it, and intentionally leads him to think it's on the table while draining him of everything that he has that's valuable. Women like this are actual predators but society would never address them as such
@@ikilledthemoon I wouldn't go as far to say a predator, but yeah she's a horrible person for sure and women like her break good men's trust and then women who do want to date and get intimate and possibly have a real relationship aren't trusted and shut out, so it's the gold digging sl*ts and w**res that ruin it for good women who are genuine wifey material. But this same logic can be applied the other way around as well vice versa it can and does go both ways.
@@liasplace4607 Maybe you're right, but these women are highly predatory because they're feeding on your energy to get attention while at the same time they get the freedom to claim that anyone that is trying to have sex with them is a bad person for trying to have sex REGARDLESS of how they try or how kind they are or how polite they are.
So you can be a perfect gentlemen treat a woman exactly how feminists say all women should be treated, and then get accused by a woman of being creepy or weird or a predator simply for trying to sleep with her when she had absolutely no intention of sleeping with you but baited you into thinking there was a possibility.
That's actually what happened to Myron from Fresh and Fit a few months ago. A woman baited him into thinking sex was on the table, then went on H3H3's show to claim he was weird, but she accidentally showed her hand by saying she never had any intention of sleeping with him but wanted to embarass him with rejection and go on H3H3 to talk about it. Why?
Women crave attention at all costs pand that's how they're predatory.
@@ikilledthemoon she is certainly using him, but he put himself in the position to get used.
He left the sexual exchange he wanted unspoken. If he wanted a contract where he would get sex in exchange for gifts and money he should have hired an escort. Both of these people are pretty awful.
I had a ok date yesterday and she was very beautiful but it was clear she wasn’t interested in being with me any deeper than enjoying the moment of having fun. Sometimes you can just feel it and when you do it sucks for sure that a woman you are talking to isn’t interested in you intimately and doesn’t see you as a person they can be attracted to. You just have to take it on the chin and move on. Using money to supplement the process will only make the rejections you get even worse. There is no solution to gaining women’s affections money can help but if you were always a lame you’ll stay one just with money.
if she was just enjoying the moment with you thats fine...but she should pay half
@@bobbrian6526 he didn't even bring up who paid for what but apparently that's what's on your mind. You sound broke. 😬
@@Chambermenz married, 3 kids, etc etc. My dating days are a long time ago but it seems to me that the right thing to do if you are going on a date just because you want to get out of the house rather than for any genuine interest in the person, then you should at least offer to pay half and be honest
@@bobbrian6526 3 kids...I guess you are broke!
...j/k. In OP's case it could have been that the girl just didn't feel chemistry in person eventhough she vibed with OP via text. Idk, but that's always been a risk of dating.
@@Chambermenz yeah, its also always a risk than when you string someone along to the tune of $5k they have a few choice words when you dont put out
I think an issue here is that of course when we genuinely like someone we do good things for them, and of course when we like someone we want to spend time with them and show interest and care. So it's not a matter of people coldly wanting to "exchange goods", but a matter of people thinking the other person actually likes them and therefore wanting to exchange goods. Like, it's not that men think that buying drinks merits sex, but rather that in some scenarios the understanding is that if you go drinking with someone it's because you are attracted to them. Or I read a post recently by a girl complaining of how she offered emotional support and helped her male friends with their problems but they never showed any romantic interest in her and went for other girls. Was she engaging in a machiavellian plot to get relationships by offering sympathy? I don't think so; she just made the somewhat reasonable assumption that talking about intimate feelings is what you do with people of the opposite gender you are attracted to. These misunderstandings are just the product of a world where one night stands have to coexist with serious relationships, and platonic friendships with "you need to be friends before being a couple" and even "fwb", etc., without any clear social demarkation between them. And the thing is, many people don't actually want to clarify where they stand and what they are looking for, but rather want to have their cake and eat it to, by just being open to anything and taking advantage of any opportunity either way. Seriously, people go to nightclubs looking for either a hookup or their future spouse, like wtf.
As a man, I really appreciate your channel and your opinion on both sexes. I believe that you truly offer a great take on everything wrong with the current sexual marketplace and I love to listen to your unbiased videos
We appreciate hearing your insights on this matter. Seems like this world can be chaotic. You can't really predict what's on other people's minds.
This video just really hits the nail. Been thinking about the dating world for a while now and always ended up with a sad feeling. Selling oneself and expecting to be loved and still treated with comfort and compassion is something that just doesnt work practically. Through my colleage years I had been working various jobs in retail and worked with customers daily. People feel entiteled, even those who are usually good people. And very often its not so much about the money but about how they expect to be treated for the money they paid for a product.
To me this goes even a step further as to question when people sell themselves or more so their bodies on onlyfans. I think as a woman, even if I did it just for myself and not expect others to do the same, I would still set a path for men to believe that a female body is a product. The more girls are selling themselves (for the money and get a lot of money) the more the idea of women as a product gets accepted. Just as all those girls who cheated on their guys or who treated most men like trash now there is a whole movement of guys who view all girls like this. We as people have to be aware to set acceptabel examples because who we play in this society is not only coming back at us but also coming back at other people.
Love shouldnt be so complicated. Unlike in former times when one hardly ever had the chance to be with the person they sincerly liked and had chemistry with now we do have the chance. But instead we run away the moment sexual excitement cools off and act as if it always only was about sex. That's so untrue. Love is actually what is beyond that. Its a feeling of connection and the willingness to take responsibility to keep this connection ongoing. And that's not an overromanticed image of love. I believe my vision of love is far more realistic and always was far more realistic than what was portraiyed in the media but somehow I still found it appealing eventhough it didnt mean being arroused by my partner 24/7.
I live here in west Africa and that kind of dating is very popular since generations back. Even when I live here in a predominantly Islamic nation, it is very common. Some men will get very angry and aggressive when they spend on a women and she doesn’t give him “body”.
I think it's important to voice expectations. If you expect sex, but don't voice the expectation, then how are you gonna get mad at the person for not fulfilling your uncommunicated expectation.
Though I could also see a person being shamed on social media for a DM saying they had an expectation of sex when the two people got together.
I also think women have a complicated relationship dealing with a man voicing an expectation for sex, since it's hard to know if you'll feel like having sex a day or week from a given time, but if he voices the expectation and you respond in an open way to the expectation, then who knows how much he might get angry if you then later change you mind. Not to mention if you change your mind and he r-pes you, the dms from you being open to his expectation for sex that night from a few days prior, can be used against you in the court of public opinion or maybe even an actually court, to back up him argument that is was consensual.
It would be nice if a guy could saying, part of me being happy with paying to fly you out, it that we'd have sex while you're together, and a woman could respond, yes I'd like that, or no I wouldn't like that, but for the reasons I listed above, there's a lot of complications to that.
That's part of the reason sex is often linked to love, even just friendship love, because if there is greater care between the two or more people, then someone changing their mind about sex, will hopefully be met with a kind response. A consideration for the actually individual(s) beyond sexual pleasure. Ideally this is a level of love extend between all human beings to one another, but without some level of extended experience with a person, it's hard to tell how much love, kindness, and respect they have for other humans on a vase human to human level. Sadly we're heavily trained to be consumers, no communities, not caring. I've worked customer service, and I've had people men and women blow up at me like that guy in the video, and it wasn't even for things that were my fault or within my control to change. Consumers, market places, are often full of verbal abuse and aggression. It's wild how when money comes into play, the payer quickly looses sight of others humanity. Look at the way people even treat other customers in videos of big sales, like America's black Friday sales. Money brings an interesting level of entitlement. I've heard women say men are entitled or feel entitled to sex, and I wonder how much this is connected to the larger buyer seller entitlement we see in these other areas I've brought up. It just so happens that the market place we've created, the man is far more often the buyer, by some way spending money, and the woman is far more often the seller, getting something beyond just the sex, from the sexual relationship, though that is starting to change in modern times. I should be clear, I'm in now way approving of the buyers entitlement or any man or woman who feels entitled to other people's bodies' either in the sexual area, or in terms of our consumer marketplaces. Team human's with respect, even if the work somewhere you are shopping at.
So, the woman is wrong because she wasn’t explicit about not wanting to sleep with the man but he didn’t have to be explicit about his expectations for sex after spending money because she should have known.
Shouldn’t he have known a woman wouldn’t want to sleep with someone she just met in person for the first time? She has no idea of his sexual health or if any in person chemistry will further develop.
I don’t see how one needs to be explicit while the other doesn’t.
Not to mention, men are shaming women for their “high body counts”, “being ran through”, “being 304s”, etc. The only way a woman doesn’t fall into that is by not having sex too quickly. But now men are mad about women taking their advice?
Glad I’m married because it’s crazy out there. I wish you singles all the best.
Nah man.
The guy paid a lot of cash for a flight, dinner and clearly expensive motel under the impression that she would sleep with him at the end of it and she accepted everything, but when it came the time to have sex, she basically denied and acted like she didn't know that he was expecting that. (Yeah, a guy that you don't know pays for a bunch of expensive stuff for you and wasn't expecting nothing in return. {Sarcasm.})
Both are in the wrong to be honest and she's lucky that all he did was yell at her. (A lot of man would not react well to the fact that they just wasted 5K over nothing.)
@@mrtyrant1680 you'll never convince these types of people. they want to have their cake and eat it too
That guy is a simp....just the fact that he has to 'fly' someone out for a date and spend all that $$$ not having met this lady before??? Come on man! A woman does not have to sleep with you regardless of what you do for her. Big time failure in judgement.
It’s so embarrassing. Both of them are shallow, but there’s just something extra pathetic about spending 5k to have intercourse. All these guys making OF models into millionaires too.
You're right, but I'm really having some difficulty in understand what the fuck was that woman thinking. Was she seriously expecting all that shit for free? Because there's no way she didn't thought he would want something in return.
a decent woman would never have accepted him spending that money on her without clarifying his intentions. The reality is that she knew he was after sex, and played him
Love how the others responding to your comment completely skipped over your actual comment calling out the guy and attacked the woman instead. You weren’t even talking about her, hahaha 🤪
@@bobbrian6526 a decent man doesn’t need to shell out 5k to court a woman. I can only feel so bad for someone so foolish.
I don't think she is at fault at all. And I don't think she deserved this, no woman deserves this. She sounded like she was confused about what he was talking about. If a man blows 5k as if it is nothing, most women will assume he did this because he sees her as a valuable partner, he is trying to get to know me and it's normal for him to spend that much. If he wanted segs he should have been clear about it instead of being sneaky not every woman is an escort. This is the same dudes that will call random women a whole bunch of names if they sleep on the first date meanwhile also shame the ones who don't want to lol. It's such a weird manipulation trick no wonder why more and more people are choosing to stay single than be a part of all that.
No, it's only him who's wrong. Did he tell her upfront he wanted sex for this? I bet he didn't. Did she tell him she wanted to have sex with him before she came? I bet she didn't.
She might have thought he was so into her, that he just wanted to treat her like a princess. That's naive but people can be naive, it's not unheard of. Unless he told her explicitly what he wanted, she might have thought whatever.
She's right, she doesn't have to f him, no matter the money he spent. Sex is a strange thing, you get it for free when you do things right, but there's no amount of money that can buy it for you when you do things wrong - outside of prostitution of course. And boy, did he do things wrong.
As a man, that video was basically unwatchable. It is one thing to buy a woman gifts in the hopes it might help you get some action , it is another thing to get angry that she didn’t sleep with you, as if gifts can entitle you to sex. That guy also knew what it was! It was just so entitled it angered me to watch. There are alternatives to Instagram models if you want straight up to pay for sex. I don’t care how much even might have been programmed to view relationships as transactional, you can’t treat people like that. If she fleeced you for a free trip, you gotta take the L, bro. Anything else makes you an asshole at best, and quite possibly actually dangerous.
As a woman I don't think he was being unreasonable. He wanted a 'date' and dessert later. While we could blame him for not being direct about it and going to an escort instead ,that exactly was his point. He didn't want it to be that. The woman can't be naive enough to have thought he only wanted her company because she's so wonderful interesting and charming. When a strange dude flies you out buys you food and takes you to a hotel room you know he's not planning on a board game later. It's messed up on both ends but she's a lot worse. Feeds the stereotype that women love playing games with men to get something out of them , and act pristine when it's time to reciprocate.
@@Trollika_Devi The point is that he is screaming and being extremely aggressive. He is behaving in a way that is scary and dangerous and that is an absolutely valid criticism. Being an idiot doesn’t entitle you to make someone feel in danger.
@@Trollika_Devi She's not a lot worse, he's being aggressive; he's a lot worse
@@dioselina2760 She WAS in danger. It could have been an axe murderer in his place. As for the screaming, crude yes but it's not exactly something you can hold against him because he was shortchanged. She used him and he was angry. She had seen it coming but thought she'd manipulate her way out of it. If I was in her place I wouldn't be surprised if he screamed at me like that because if you run the bill up to thousands of dollars dining at the expense of a guy you had never met before you are commodifying yourself.
@@dioselina2760 people get angry when they are played, and have every right to be angry. He didnt threaten her or hit her or rape her, he was just angry. If you dont want people to be angry then you should be honest and up front in your dealings with them
It’s great how she grew her channel quickly. From 10k to 100k hopefully she gets a million subs soon and can support her living with her channel. We get more videos
Fingers crossed!
Unless a woman states from the outset, that she is a professional, and that she will indeed provide sex in exchange for money... sex is not transactional.
It does not matter how much I spend bringing her to my home, from however far away... she owes me nothing. Least of all sex.
And professional ladies have a right to set limits as well. If a client is not as advertised, a pro can and should walk away... FAST.
The man in the Tik Tok vid, was wrong to make the assumption that he was owed sex.
That he never alluded to any prior contract, suggests that he failed to make clear that sex was the commodity he was buying. He assumed that he would be given sex in exchange for showing himself to be a "big spender". But he never checked to make sure he was dealing with a professional.
An Instagram model, is like a Call Of Duty veteran. Its a bullshit designation.
It says nothing beyond shallow and superficial, crass materialist.
It does NOT translate to Professional Sexual Services.
And he likely would not hire a pro.
I'm a disabled guy and I feel this so much. I'm working my way through grad school, but I have no money and I have no resources. I've been out with girls (as friends), who I think expect the little bit more and I don't know why I guess it's because I've never been in a relationship, but it hurts when they see me and their demeanor completely changes. Love is dead to me, I'm going to try to make the best I can on my own life and try to be as independent as I can, but I don't think I'll find anyone I'm too damaged and defective. I don't think another disabled person would even want me.
It must hurt to find out that even disabled women dont want to date disabled guys.
@@newperson9662 it does. To be honest I'm not sure I can really blame them, though. Because could we need a lot of help and it's sort of understandable that they would want someone more capable than they are.
Lol I've had a woman cuss me out because I texted her before we went out that we should pay for ourselves. She makes more than me as well. I don't get what the big deal is? I've never expected anyone to pay for my shit.
@@counselorguy5481 yeah, I feel that my guy. Sorry you had to go through that. With my most recent example of this I really don't know whether she thought it was a date or not. I genuinely just wanted to meet her, but I could see the look of disappointment on her face like I said-this applies to even just friends.
@@ACrownofFlowers keep your head up king, you'll find something real out there
The idea that they are both to blame in the tik-tok video is deeply offensive. There is nothing in the video to suggest that she promised him sex for money. There ARE men who spend a lot of money on models simply to be with them, to be SEEN with them, etc., without the expectation of sex.
That man had a completely baseless belief that he was entitled to sex. Period.
To be sure, it's ridiculous to live a life that centers on wealth, celebrity, and glamour. I don't particularly admire what the Instagram model was doing. But that's different from selling sex. She plainly wasn't in that business and never claimed to be.
I do agree with the emphasis on friendship in this video - completely. Attitudes about intimate relationships are often thought about in painfully shallow and superficial ways.
But that has nothing to do with that tik-tok video. This video would have been a lot better without it.
Thanks for this video! I did a lot of dating and I hated the marketization of sex, thought I was taking part in it. Very destructive, both in straight and gay relationships. Love as friendship is the only durable kind of love and I was lucky to finally find it. This is also the Platonic idea of love. For Plato this was, of course, between two men, who´s spirits will raise and transcend through the deepest kind of friendship. Real as life.
And by the way, what we today call "platonic love" is not this. It is related because sex is not the key thing, but Plato did include sex. As you say, though, specially when you get older, sex is not so important, it may not even be necessary.
Personally, though, I would not try a "special friendship" with somebody I don´t have a good sexual connection with. This is because I prefer sexual exclusivity, and that may not work if you don´t feel truly attracted to that person. Wanting to sleep with others?! That would be devastating to me. Not saying it cannot work for others, I´ve seen it working really badly, but that doesn´t mean it´s bad for everyone.
I don’t think I can longer watch your videos on this topic of dating.
There’s no problem with you but for the sake of my mental wellbeing I simply can’t.
Thank you for saying they are both wrong. I’ve thought that from the first time I saw that video. Relationships are purely transactional now. You can hear it in the music. No one sings of love anymore but instead about how easy it would be to take your girlfriend, wife, boyfriend, etc. because I have substantially more money than you do. I hate it here…you make it a little bit better though. ❤
That's just who you're listening to. If you choose to listen to a lot of 90s Mariah, you'll be a super romantic.
@balkancibraca well said. Do not succumb to peer pressure. I don’t really know you or your friends but you seem like you have a good head on your shoulders. Be true to yourself and you will attract a like minded individual who hopefully has a good sense of humor.
@@jasonhaven7170 true. I don’t listen to a lot of modern music and that’s the reason why. It lacks substance. I simply meant that “love” type of music isn’t at the forefront anymore - meaning it’s not promoted or played on the radio like the catchy, TikTok, arguably toxic songs are. It’s still out there…but it’s a lot harder for those artists to get noticed now a days.
And I thought dating in the 90s was psychotic! Seeing all this makes me grateful that 1. I'm not part of the younger generations today, 2. I've been married for almost 20 years, 3. my wife and I are (and always have been) on the same page about male-female relationships, and 4. I am at an advanced enough age and have a rich enough outside life that if, God forbid, our marriage should end for whatever reason and I end up alone, I will be able to carry on alone.
Dating in 2023 is maybe the most broken thing in all of society, and besides this video, no one is as angry as they should be about it. In 30 years, we'll see how bad we all got this so wrong.
It is wrong because pre social media, this IG model would be dating one guy. Today she can 'date' 100 and men feel women are priced out of the market. The problem is women's standards not mens
"The most broken thing in all of society"? LOL that's sweet, if only
@@EmyN ... what do you got then? What's more important than isolated heart broken and sad humans in the hundreds of millions?
@New Person nothing wrong with the average woman's standards. Women have come a long way in history and we don't need men like we used to. Men seem to be stuck in the past. That 666 rule comes from an insecure man trying to justify his rejection instead of reflecting on himself. Stop looking for relationships on the internet. That pool is damaged.
@@jl6523 Geh I don't know, how about how we are killing the planet by polluting the air and the environment causing all sorts of phenomena that could lead to our extinction? But a sad boo-boo heart is worse 🥺
There was a 21 year old man in Texas who was arrested for beating, SA, and holding captive a young woman he met on Bumble.
After the date, they went back to his place and she rejected his advances, that’s when everything took a turn for the worse . She was held over the week(s) of Christmas and the New Year.
Long story short ladies. Don’t accept things from a man (strangers specifically) whether that be trips, bags, literal cash, etc without understanding you more than likely will have to “pay” him back more than likely in the form seggs or a relationship.
Lastly, fellas… why not bring up the possibility of having seggs after the date if that’s what you want? And if she says no prior to you taking her out, than move onto the next woman.
I don't really get what a rapist kidnapping and repeatedly raping the girl who went on a date with him has to do with people accepting things from others.
...Unless the "lesson" is don't trust any man to go back to his house for any reason because he'll probably turn into a rapist if you change your mind or don't feel ready to have sex.
... And that would be a crappy "lesson" too as most men aren't rapists.
I mean I feel like I get some idea of what you're trying to say, but the example of the rapist just seems off and victim-blamey.
Wow. You have low expectations for men, huh?
Whether it's $5 for a coffee or a $5000 trip (that a man will happily flaunt like it's "nothing" bc of his financial status until the right moment for him), so many guys 100% act entitled, huffy, aggressive and even scary. If a date doesn't work out, I DO NOT throw in his face the hours getting ready, the plans I could've made/shifts I could've picked up otherwise. This is because I know how to show respect and kindness!
If a woman is a social media influencer she is probably used to getting with wealthier guys. Some guys are flashy AND kind and she's probably experienced that before. How dare everyone assume she's playing a game here?
To add on to what @marieg everyone technically has other and more productive things they could've do with their free time, but when people go on dates because they genuinely are investing their emotions, money, and time on that person. So if a date doesn't work out, of course someone is going to be upset.
If this woman is a social media influencer who dealt with numerous of thirsty and wealthy guys in her DMs, she should know that a man who is offering to fly a woman out and spending 5k on her is a form of sexual proposition. I'm willing to bet my entire life that just like the angry dude, she wasn't interested in getting to know each other. He was trying to fuck and she was looking for an expensive free lunch.
@marie g exactly, it's on the person investing their time/energy/money to not be an asshole about what they're getting in "return". Not sure why you're arguing.
I think relationships were always a marketplace exchange of some sort for better or worse. More problems when people feel cheated and exploited whether actual or perceived which is more rampant in the modern dating market most likely. Maybe the best thing is mutual attraction for both parties who are both willing to try with one another.
Kidology’s story is why I no longer befriend men. There is always an interest on their part or hope for an opportunity. No thanks, take someone else for a fool..
It’s been interesting watching your views develop on these topics. I agree that friendship is a more important part of marriage than is sex.
I find it very curious how both parties feel both entitled to their assumptions and neglectful of the other's expectation whilst not making any attempt at meaningful communication to ensure anything at all.
I feel like these kinds of arrangements can still be had and could be so less toxic or entitled if they had a simple conversation to confirm or deny their respective expectations beforehand and move on from there.
But ig these complications just prove that the marketization of sexuality/relationships are just not compatible with mature communication. Like any market, its ultimate goal is to exploit or be exploited so in a way it is tragically fitting.
Too much work for this generation.
It’s hard to divulge from the sexual marketplace idea because it is so widespread and ingrained. I am a trauma survivor with a lot of sexual struggles and it’s hard not to feel guilty for not providing sexually for my partner who I live with and who I mutually take care of in every other way.
These days sex and love can come together but it’s important in a long term partner to have full love regardless of sex
I believe Kidology's very right on this. Using the SMV metric as one's rubric for long term, marriage worthy, romantic partner is probably... no good.
Understanding it has its benefits though; and if you're solely after clout and-or sex, it's a great guide.
Beyond that...
It's high school mentality adultified
First man thought he bought a prostitutes services by giving her a hotel room, but she never said that she was a sex worker. He doesn’t view women as people, just sex objects, fucking disgusting
I like your take on this, Zee. I would like to add some remarks that, for reasons I won't go into here, I am well qualified to make.
In addition to the commodification of every bloody aspect of life under the current social conditions, there is also the factor of attachment injury. Everyone innately needs authentic, caring, intimate attachments, and this should include our sexual relations. But we accumulate conditioned defence-reactions throughout life due to experiences of abandonment, betrayal, cruelty, etc..
Desiring, objectifying, can feel stronger and safer than loving. Love is vulnerable and intimate. I think that many people don't even recognise that they are afraid of this. They habitually occupy the position of looking, lusting-after, chasing, grabbing, binding desired objects to themselves... But I think it's like hunting elephants: the 'prize' is a marvellous living being in its rich context; what you take home is a stuffed, dead lump that hangs on your wall.
Love and sex can coexist over the long term, but I think it's an art to keep it smouldering, and we should not have porntastic expectations of ecstatic lust with vending-machine-like reliability. As you say: in sickness & in health. Happiness is not pleasure. Pleasure is just one part of life that needs to be in balance for the sake of the organism. Hedonists are just wrong and always end up unbalanced and self-destructive when they get what they want--doesn't matter whether the 'drug' is cocaine or promoting world peace. Happiness is peace with things as they are. I don't think it's a specific, elusive state but rather our true nature as being when we don't mistake ourselves for some incomplete idea of ourselves.
Love this comment.
The man hedonism was named after got a bad rap. He didn't believe in pleasure to the point of self destruction.
He believed it is a vital part of our lives in the pursuit of living better lives. I just hate the hedonism slander, he was actually a really stand up guy. The puritan-esk leaders of the time hated him though, and aggressively labeled him a dangerous self pleasuring fool.
@@GreenGorgeousness You might be getting mixed up with Epicurus and Epicureanism? 'Hedonism' just comes from the word for 'pleasure', not someone's name.
If this is the case, it's also worth saying hedonism & epicureanism are very different ways of life.
Ok the only thing I don’t necessarily agree with is that she “knew what she was doing”. If the scenario in the video is exactly right and has NO extra context (which could be unlikely) then saying she knew what she was doing might be correct. On the other hand there are more possibilities for this specific scenario. Maybe she did wanna have sex with him but he did something weird or acted in a way that turned her off. What if she wanted to wait longer and then, seeing his insane ass outburst with a camera, for sure changed her mind. Maybe she actually didnt understand that would be expected of her or also maybe he acted like he didnt care about it, but expected it anyway. The thing is that money doesnt buy sex even if its a expectation in patriarchy and unless she for sure was truthfully using him theres way more scenarios that make sense and would inform our knowledge not just purely on the video from his perspective where he corners her and shuts her up.
I thought this. She may have changed her mind when she saw his character was so deficient. Like, they just met. She might have gotten to know him and decided it was not a wise choice. He seems super-unlikable to say the least.
I absolutely love all of your perspective. Its incredibly refreshing.
Love these conversations you’re having with your camera lately. Keep it up the good work!!
I’ve been uneasy with the ‘market place’ terminology used to describe romantic love and intimacy for quite some time. It’s dehumanising.
The clash between objectivity and subjectivity in relation to human desire
Likewise. Makes me feel...filthy.
I don’t quite understand why you blamed the girl in that situation. For assuming that there isn’t transactionality in her visit? For skirting over an unspoken contract reaping profit without clearing costs? Both these options feel murky. Maybe that both parties assumed the other’s consent to their personal understanding of the situation without bothering to verify how the other understood it? Influencer economics do make people accept large scale benefits as a given. Escape from purely transactional activity requires thinking through. The guy in the situation could have thought that the limit between the girl joining him willingly and between the contract being spoken out loud was the bar between romance/dating and sex work. As you shared from your own experience, expectations don’t have a shared cultural standard. There isn’t a level where one is owed sex, maybe there should be a level where one is owed clarification about expectations from both parties and of both parties
Please read my pinned comment and responses to other posts raising the same questions👍🤝.
The fact that you mention friendship make me hopeful, hopefully one day i met someone who can reciprocate those feelings, but also hopefully i also get those friendships that can work it through
A long time ago when I turned 18, I flew out to another country to see someone I met online. I spent about $2000 between the cost of airfare, a passport, a few hundred in foreign currency and suitable clothes (I was going from a sub-tropical to a sub-arctic climate). She didn't end up "putting out", but I already understood she didn't "owe" me sex. I had other people, including family members, tell me I was way nicer than they would have been and if they were in the same position they would have gone off on her for not doing more, em, favors for them.
What I was upset about though was the way I was treated. I was given the cold shoulder and blown off and later found out she was talking to somebody else that she ended up marrying. I went there not necessarily for "love" or intimacy but for closure, and being told I was awkward and unattractive after making that gesture really was a blow to the chest. I think it's completely reasonable that women change their minds or simply don't want to engage in physical intimacy, and men aren't "owed" sex in exchange for money/time/other investments. But I also think some women take for granted what men will do for them as acts of kindness, sense of duty or even just an expectation to be gentlemen in order to even make that intimacy possible.
He was exhibiting extreme behaviour, I don't see how her behaviour warrants the phrase "the deserving of each other". But yes, I encourage individuals to either be clear in what you expect or if you feel unsafe rejecting someone, which happens, do not date that individual or don't accept/pay them back whether it's 2 or 2000 dollars, so that if you are threatened or feel unsafe or refuse intercourse, others will not say: " you knew what you were doing". I rarely take sides but based on the info in the video, I would not let that man anywhere near anyone i know . Mental health is extremely important, grossly untreated in adult men and more of a problem than getting laid or not (EDIT: while not statistically independent). And not the capitalist bootstrappy mental health American society loves but real science based evidence practice for treating men in this current society. I hope that after getting my degree, I'll be able to help people see that there is more to life than fucking, like a low IQ neanderthal.
Relationships have always been an economic arrangement. More so when women literally couldn't thrive in society without being married. Things are shifting but they're not becoming more of a marketplace than they always were.
i just got a bumble ad on your video, how ironic😭 when youtube cannot read the room ig lol
With such expectations, I may not be wrong to think he is part of the manosphere, bashes women for being easy, idealizes a traditional woman yet is upset a woman won't sleep with him on the first date or in exchange for his kindness.
Something else I find interesting is how he turned on his instagram to resolve this. Great people skills! the chemistry must have been undeniable. No wonder the poor guy can't believe what happened afterwards.
"Kindness"
OMG, I agree so much with everything in this video, especially with the last point. I can't stand dating apps because the few times i've been on an app date in a bar, it's made me feel cheap, almost like an escort (who don't come cheap but you see what I mean. After only 2/3 hours and a couple of drinks, I'm expected to make up my mind about whether or not I have romantic feelings towards this person... Where romantic feelings is more of a slow-burning process for me, that takes several months, at least, to develop and the point is, they can only develop in an unexpected and surprising way, not when I'm trying to force them to develop. Also, when it's time to leave the bar, the guy grabs me and tries to kiss and squeese me, it's utterly disgusting and makes me feel sooooo cheap...!! No one wants to take time anymore to let things happen naturally and develop at an organic pace. Everyone is in a hurry and if you're not in the same rush as them, they've already started sending zillions of messages to several other female strangers. Men don't take time to invest in developing a relationship with just one woman anymore, they're just looking to score. Revolting.
the start of this video is very strange. It starts with a man recording himself yelling at and berating a woman because she doesn’t want to have sex with him. From his comments, we are made to understand that since he paid for her trip to see him, he feels she owes him sex. The woman rightly says I don’t have to have sex, if I don’t want. And the man continues to yell and berate her while recording her. And kidology sees this situation as both people were wrong.
What?
It's more nuanced than that.
The woman should be able to tell that the man clearly has intentions of more than just a friendly date with all the money he's spending here and be clear that she's either not attracted to him or just wants a non-extravagant first date or whatever her own intentions are.
This doesn't just happen out of the blue, it was clearly planned some time in advance through instagram.
Obviously the man isn't entitled to sex despite all of that and shouldn't ever be this aggressive, but the girl isn't blameless here.
@@TheMasterd333 I don't get your point. if the woman knew what his intentions were and was completely fine with them at one point but then changed her mind, what was she supposed to do then? she's supposed to just allow him to have access to that part of her because he spent money on her? or if she wanted to but felt too drunk or too ill, she should've just given him what he wanted anyways?
there was no point where he was entitled to have sex with her, regardless of whether she was playing him from the beginning or she became uncomfortable with the idea later down the line. however when the issue he has is that he spent 5k on her, do you really think this man cares why she won't have sex with him? he clearly just felt like he could buy her consent, and you're validating that by saying that since she's there she should do what he wants.
@@TheMasterd333
You posted a whole bunch of nonsense. Not having sex with another person is not injuring that person. There is no nuance to explain away that reality. Don’t you see what you are saying here? I think you have very reactionary and conservative beliefs about women and sex.
@@TheMasterd333
Plus the guy was behaving and ranting like a lunatic while recording her. We all saw it. He may have been behaving like that the whole time she got there. We don’t know. That’s why the idea she is at fault for not having sex with that guy or anyone is just reactionary. It takes some weird beliefs about women and sex to see her at fault.
@@ctrlf7382 The man was never entitled to sex of course, and clearly he is way more in the wrong because of his behavior and actions.
My point isn't that the woman should just give the man whatever he wants, but that there clearly is an intention behind some dude she doesn't know inviting her to an extravagant getaway over instagram and paying for a room they'll be sharing. Accepting that without the intention to have sex is basically fooling around and putting herself in danger. Being clear with intentions as to not lead a guy on is a responsablity she must take on for her own sake.
Chaging her mind is also competely valid of course, but going all the way with the date to the point that they're literally together in the room is just irresponsible at that point.
The only situation where no responsibility falls to her is as you mentioned, where she felt sick or drunk and in that case yes the guy is a full on psychopath, but we don't have the full context.
Again to be clear, the man is still the person clearly most in the wrong here, isn't entitled to sex and will never be justified in yelling at and recording the woman, nor in his overly aggressive behavior.
But still, at least some level of responsibility falls on the woman in most scenarios here.
Love this video, the influence of algorithms turning every interaction on the internet into a profitable exploit is exhausting. Would love to see this idea expanded on and see how digitizing and monetizing other human interactions and or social groups get affected.
Is there a precedent for sex and relationships to not be part of a market in some form or another? There seems to be a long history of marriages being performed for material means or agreements such as treaties, exchanges of goods etc. Even on a micro scale, many people enter relationships to combine resources with another person.
I think, perhaps, the difference now is that there are fewer enforceable contracts associated with the dating marketplace. People enter these situations believing that the end 'product' could be a connection of sorts, but don't make provisions for the other possibilities that could arise. Then, we have encounters, such as the Tiktok example, where two people enter an 'agreement' with different expectations and neither of them receiving what they were expecting from the transaction (or one of them getting played).
My own action, to counteract the above scenario, would be to double-down on the marketplace behaviours by stating agreements in writing including adding possible future scenarios into the agreement. I know it's not practical, but to leave it to the other person's goodwill is not sufficient security for me in these arrangements. That being said, I don't actively participate in the dating marketplace which is another surefire way to avoid all of this.
Very good video, but not enough energy is given to how we got here. Marketization is a solution to a pre-existing problem. People were unsuccessful in their relational endeavors. Women were unsuccessful in getting commitment from the men they wanted. While friendship is not a bad thing in itself, if she's a woman he'd prefer to be romantically involved with friendship is a failure. Friend is a dirty word to a lot of men because there's a fear that's all he'll ever be. I agree with you, however, that our shift toward a market and trade based approach has come at the cost of genuine companionship. So what's the solution? Be perpetually a friend to women you would rather be in an intimate relationship with? Be in various "come through" situationships with men you would rather receive a public commitment from(for women)? How do bridge the gap and find a scalable solution for the masses?
Because men always want something in return, everything is transactional to them
Ummm....taken at it's purist, maybe, but I took company and conversation as a legit part of the transaction. I just didn't view it in such cynical terms.
Yet women are the ones that overlook most potential suitots because of their pay grade 😂
Projection much?
Snake 🐍 most of them are
@@DJKidd301
This is because men has always treated themselves in the lives of their women, children & families as an ATM machines!
@@gem2148 thats because you need money to maintain a woman, clown. When men were the only ones who really worked he had to bring a bag.
Distributing sex via a market place creates the idea that it is somehow separate from intimacy when in reality it's among one of the most intimate acts we can do as humans. Plus, intimacy requires vulnerability which can't be negotiated within a sterile market framework where everything has a price put on it. Unfortunately people are going to have to "f around and find out" how bad this model is for our entire well being.
The guy is really angry at himself because he was stupid enough to get played. Why he couldn't spend the money on a high class escort where the expectations are clear, I don't know.
He wanted to pay for it without LOOKING as if he was paying for a bona fide escort and that's ALL on him. Maybe there was greater kudos in his eyes in f--k--g an IG. Something he could boast about to his homies.
As for the woman, my concern isn't that she played him, but that she was negligent of her own safety. Now THAT was dumb.
I agree, she was really dumb, I'm not even flying to guys and they'd try to sexually harrass me online like d pic without consent or try to segs roleplay without consent, I'm gonna sound like a victim blamer but this girl is gonna get in trouble in the future if she continues, the dude is fault too though if he didn't communicate clearer what he wanted
He should have just had that outburst in front of a mirror😅.