Thomas is still elder in the Nazarene Church? And still at NNU? I'm confused, I watched his statement earlier. Anyways, thank you for the conversation, I'm going through "deconstruction" after 40 years of being a believer. So many others also going through this process, it's a discovery of God as we never allowed ourselves to imagine Him before. Peace.
My understanding is the Dr. Oord was RIF'd from NNU at this point. He is still an Elder and still speaking. Recent book "God Can't" smile.amazon.com/God-Cant-Believe-after-Tragedy/dp/1948609126/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=god+can%27t&qid=1558536196&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
@@ThaNewDealer723 Praying for the OP. Just wanted to suggest the book "Death to Deconstruction" for a better idea of what deconstruction is and that it doesn't always lead to the catastrophic outcome of walking away from one's faith.
I'll help you out. I finished this video. And I'm like Arminian and believe people can fail salvation from this scripture I found Galatians 5:19-21 that when sinning that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians was Paul's teachings, proves it can fail eternal salvation. Grandpa believed he couldn't go to Hell, and Arminians believe he could. I'm against suicide. I was depressed also to suicidal. I almost did suicide as a 5-Point Calvinist. And these scriptures got me more hope. I became more Arminian now from these scriptures I posted on here. I believe people can fail salvation. Loving God is wanting to be useful for him much. What if a person could do that much of his time? And I enjoy working from this. People who enjoy working. When it's more likely to be boring to non-Christians. Mark 9:33-35 New American Standard Bible 1995 33 They came to Capernaum; and when He [a]was in the house, He began to question them, “What were you discussing on the way?” 34 But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, “If anyone wants to be first, [b]he shall be last of all and servant of all.” . This is for Christian world domination. Why to raise kids Christians. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can! This text could motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people, this world needs them.
You would think that prevenient grace would be taught by Calvinists since they emphasize the fact that God takes the first move in our salvation. The whole concept of prevenient grace lines up well with John 6: 65. We can't even come to God unless the Holy Spirit draws us. Wesley was wise to include this term and emphasis in his theology. I disagree with the notion that "love is the major point in Wesleyan theology. It was holiness that is the main attribute of God. Love doesn't explain God by itself without holiness being mentioned. This generation's Christians loves to place the emphasis on love, and needs the Wesleyan corrective on holiness to balance out what is a lopsided idea of Who God is. Without the mention of God's holiness the idea of love as a key attribute falls apart and becomes sentimental and extremely nebulous.
_"You would think that prevenient grace would be taught by Calvinists since they emphasize the fact that God takes the first move in our salvation."_ Calvinists do have a "prevenient" grace, or grace that comes before faith. It's called Regeneration. Regeneration is the specific grace that gets the name "Irresistible Grace". But Arminianism rejects the position that Regeneration comes before man's faith, so they posit a different grace that is "prevenient". I'm a bit confused by your comment because both TULIP and "regeneration preceeds faith" are pretty well known aspects of Calvinistic soteriology, I think.
Then again, the Beloved Disciple John said three pithy words (in English translation): "God is Love." It does help to know the particular Greek word John used for LOVE. Then the sentence becomes clearer.
1.All need to be saved 2. All can be saved 3. All can know they are saved 4.All can be saved to the uttermost Wesley's 4 Alls and antidote to Calvinism
Get to the point! Can you fall from grace after once accepting Christ, or not? This is what the discussions of predestination are all about. If the elect are predistinated and once elected cannot fall from grace, what would be the point of spreading the gospel or of missions to unbelievers? In addition, the question to both camps is what happened to all the people who never heard the gospel, particularly before Christ was even born. Could only Jews be saved? Heaven may be a very small space. If you are "elected" and make it under the cracks in the door, there may be nobody you know there? Back to grace, if you can fall from grace, then there must be somewhere a "bill of particulars" that establishes the threshold of where you go over the line and fall from grace. Example: Suppose you commit adultery, No. 7 on the Big 10 list, have you gone over the edge? Suppose you look at a women with lust, Jesus said that breaks the 7th commandment. Are you done? What if you only lust a little? SUCKER, you're gone, is that the way it works? How does infinite love square with about all of the disciples having been martyred?
the older gentleman on the left while I differ with him gives me an interesting perspective but the young man on the left seems makes me want to stop watching.
Thank you, Gentlemen 🌹⭐🌹⭐
Thomas is still elder in the Nazarene Church? And still at NNU? I'm confused, I watched his statement earlier. Anyways, thank you for the conversation, I'm going through "deconstruction" after 40 years of being a believer. So many others also going through this process, it's a discovery of God as we never allowed ourselves to imagine Him before. Peace.
My understanding is the Dr. Oord was RIF'd from NNU at this point.
He is still an Elder and still speaking. Recent book "God Can't"
smile.amazon.com/God-Cant-Believe-after-Tragedy/dp/1948609126/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=god+can%27t&qid=1558536196&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
Andre,
What did you learn in this deconstruction? And please define deconstruction. Genuinely curious sir.
@@ThaNewDealer723 Praying for the OP. Just wanted to suggest the book "Death to Deconstruction" for a better idea of what deconstruction is and that it doesn't always lead to the catastrophic outcome of walking away from one's faith.
I'll help you out.
I finished this video. And I'm like Arminian and believe people can fail salvation from this scripture I found Galatians 5:19-21 that when sinning that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians was Paul's teachings, proves it can fail eternal salvation. Grandpa believed he couldn't go to Hell, and Arminians believe he could.
I'm against suicide. I was depressed also to suicidal. I almost did suicide as a 5-Point Calvinist. And these scriptures got me more hope.
I became more Arminian now from these scriptures I posted on here. I believe people can fail salvation.
Loving God is wanting to be useful for him much. What if a person could do that much of his time? And I enjoy working from this. People who enjoy working. When it's more likely to be boring to non-Christians.
Mark 9:33-35
New American Standard Bible 1995
33 They came to Capernaum; and when He [a]was in the house, He began to question them, “What were you discussing on the way?” 34 But they kept silent, for on the way they had discussed with one another which of them was the greatest. 35 Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, “If anyone wants to be first, [b]he shall be last of all and servant of all.”
.
This is for Christian world domination. Why to raise kids Christians. God Son Jesus said similarly to whoever is useful the most is the best merited of the apostles. Useful merit for eternal rewards and competition with other Christians. With God Son Lord Jesus Christ faith teaching, people will want to be useful for the kingdom of Heaven, which usefulness happens on Earth and if any other place. We need to help this world as much as we can!
This text could motivate, supposed to be Christian people, to do all types of usefulness. Chores, volunteering, grade school, high school, college, and work. Good people, this world needs them.
You would think that prevenient grace would be taught by Calvinists since they emphasize the fact that God takes the first move in our salvation. The whole concept of prevenient grace lines up well with John 6: 65. We can't even come to God unless the Holy Spirit draws us. Wesley was wise to include this term and emphasis in his theology. I disagree with the notion that "love is the major point in Wesleyan theology. It was holiness that is the main attribute of God. Love doesn't explain God by itself without holiness being mentioned. This generation's Christians loves to place the emphasis on love, and needs the Wesleyan corrective on holiness to balance out what is a lopsided idea of Who God is. Without the mention of God's holiness the idea of love as a key attribute falls apart and becomes sentimental and extremely nebulous.
_"You would think that prevenient grace would be taught by Calvinists since they emphasize the fact that God takes the first move in our salvation."_
Calvinists do have a "prevenient" grace, or grace that comes before faith. It's called Regeneration. Regeneration is the specific grace that gets the name "Irresistible Grace". But Arminianism rejects the position that Regeneration comes before man's faith, so they posit a different grace that is "prevenient".
I'm a bit confused by your comment because both TULIP and "regeneration preceeds faith" are pretty well known aspects of Calvinistic soteriology, I think.
Then again, the Beloved Disciple John said three pithy words (in English translation): "God is Love." It does help to know the particular Greek word John used for LOVE. Then the sentence becomes clearer.
1.All need to be saved
2. All can be saved
3. All can know they are saved
4.All can be saved to the uttermost
Wesley's 4 Alls and antidote to Calvinism
BLB, Thank you.
@@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj You're welcome, God Bless you brother
@@BottomLineBassin2 Sister to the max!!! Blessings and ☮️😆😎😆
@@BrendaBoykin-qz5dj Sorry sister !
Get to the point! Can you fall from grace after once accepting Christ, or not? This is what the discussions of predestination are all about. If the elect are predistinated and once elected cannot fall from grace, what would be the point of spreading the gospel or of missions to unbelievers? In addition, the question to both camps is what happened to all the people who never heard the gospel, particularly before Christ was even born. Could only Jews be saved? Heaven may be a very small space. If you are "elected" and make it under the cracks in the door, there may be nobody you know there?
Back to grace, if you can fall from grace, then there must be somewhere a "bill of particulars" that establishes the threshold of where you go over the line and fall from grace. Example: Suppose you commit adultery, No. 7 on the Big 10 list, have you gone over the edge? Suppose you look at a women with lust, Jesus said that breaks the 7th commandment. Are you done? What if you only lust a little? SUCKER, you're gone, is that the way it works? How does infinite love square with about all of the disciples having been martyred?
DK Barkerrr: OMG!!! LOVELY TONE OF VOICE!!!! MUCH.
the older gentleman on the left while I differ with him gives me an interesting perspective but the young man on the left seems makes me want to stop watching.