+JuiceBoxWizard I'm curious, did you play Banjo Kazooie before this? This is a lame rip-off of BK basically. Everything you like about DK64, BK did it better.
I would LOVE a remake of this game that allows you to press a button on the D pad to switch Kong’s. That literally fixes almost everything about this game
I haven’t actually played DK64, but all of the gameplay I’ve seen it looks like the backtracking to the tag barrel looks like the worst part of the game. I plan on playing it at some point though
A remake would be absolutely cherished by me. The remake should include, among many other things, THE ABILITY TO DELETE THE FU@#ING BANANA FAIRIES!!!!!!
@@TheGoombaFromNowhere Definitely took me by surprise as well. She's also his cousin which might explain why he feels comfortable shoving the player onto her instead
Here’s how the Kong family tree works: Cranky was the original DK, and he and Wrinkly had DK Jr. He got together with SOMEONE and had the modern DK and and an unseen brother. His brother got together with someone had Diddy. Dixie is from a completely different family. She has to parents who had her and Tiny, and one of the had a brother who had Chunky and Kiddy with someone.
I didn't realize how mixed of a reception this game had until many years later. Say what you want, but this is in my top 20 games of all time. Very fond memories
Same for me and I haven’t even played it😂😭 I’ve only ever watched my big cousin play but now I got I switch and I wish they remade it or at least done the same thing as the Mario deluxe and put three old games in with only little changes
What I did as a kid to make it easier on the collectables was just sticking to one Kong only until I got all of most of the collectables and THEN I'd switch them, it makes the game more enjoyable to me
I recently played this game again after buying an N64 If it wasn't for the collectibles the game wouldn't last long at all, my save is currently around 83% with a playtime of 28 hours, you take those collectibles away and It would easily be done in less than an hour because the only purpose would be defeating the bosses in each area, it would make the rest of each level pointless, people like to moan about very little things, to me this game was almost flawless the only issues for me were the arcade games and beaver bother, everything else was perfect
The camera can be hard if you let it. The bit he showed with Diddy in the Angry Aztec place, he's using the wrong camera angle there, it's obvious he's gonna fall, or the "tongue" retracts itself before he gets to the other side.
Still, I've often said Rare was the best developer on the N64. When I make a top ten, I always notice a huge chunk all came from Rare. Star Fox, Conker, Banjo, Golden Eye and Perfect Dark are just classics.
You can design an open world but still have ways to direct the player. For example, areas that are lit up automatically draw the player towards them, and trails of bananas can lead you in the right direction.
Yeah the levels are huge to the point of being overwhelming, and the only way they really direct players is through banana trails, but those aren't necessarily good directional advice, and once you collect them, they're gone.
Maintenance - yeah pretty much. I do still enjoy DK64, but in my mind, Banjo Kazooie is the closest thing we've ever seen to a perfect 3D platform collectathon.
What I really appreciate about this kind of video essay compared to some others I've seen is that what you're showing in the video actually matches what you're talking about at basically all points. It's very appealing and something under-appreciated.
One thing I do love about this game is the humor, though. I love how Chunky is such a wimpy baby and immediately starts worshipping the dragon boss out of fear.
I'm gonna be honest: When I first clicked on the video I thought it was gonna be some unappreciative guy bashing what is one of my all time favorite games, but as the video wore on I found myself agreeing more and more with the issues and evidence presented. Well done on the video man. You earned this sub.
My thoughts exactly! I saw his title and the "Nostalgia Ogre" in me started screaming like a tantrum child at this obvious clickbaity bitch whiny rant. Then I watched, got at the flaws and I realized "snomaN" was ABSOLUTELY 100% right. I remember the many frustrations I've had with the collectibles and camera system but overlooked those flaws because my 10 year old self didn't know what a badly designed game was, I just concluded that I was bad at playing it. Above all, I remember how limiting it felt, not having all 5 Kongs available at the beginning. Entering a huge adventure filled stage for the first time. The way my heart raced ready explore!..... Only to discover 50+ sectioned off areas that only certain Kongs could access, just to piss off my peanut brain and hinder progress. Banjo-Kazooie on the other hand did exactly what DK64 didn't, it made the 2 characters work as one to complete tasks, they will both always be classics to me. Banjo however might have been the better adventure game.
well... I couldn't remember why I disliked the game as a child (I was 10), but it's all coming back to me after watching this video. I do have some rather subjective reasons as well as the things he mentioned, but fuck me! my personal opinions are unimportant as hell in this particular case so I won't even go there.
i agree with the collectibles it was a little much but didnt bother me. but u wanted the kongs to work with eachother through the whole game and have ur own choice and beat it a different way. That would be a game waaaaay before its time
Those collectibles actually made me never finish the game. It just felt unnecessary to go through every section 5 times. After some time you'll forgot which sections you have already searched, too.:/
I hope whenever the next 3D DK is in development, the devs look at this video to.make the perfect one. I loved DK64, but you definitely have some valid points.
Except that's what Banjo Tooie did, it had multiple characters that did separate things than enabled them to do other things, while also having things unique only they could do. Banjo and Kazooie on their own, as well as Mumbo.
you didn't mention how.... FRUSTRATING The Diddy Kong jetpack is to control. The jetpack's obnoxious controls are the reason I never beat the game. I'd waste a HALF HOUR of the Hideout Helm time trying to do the rings.
You hit the nail RIGHT on the head and said it better than I ever could. Just replayed this game because my nostalgia and memories told me that this was the best game ever, but I could not have been more wrong. I found that the entire game dragged and felt like a job, doing tedious grunt work for hours - after I put the game down it felt exhausting, like I just did a load of homework. The core mechanic of the game is running around a giant map to collect colored bananas and going back and forth to the tag barrel to go to the SAME EXACT spot 4 more times. That being said, not only was King K. Rool was one of the funnest bosses in my experience in playing platformers, but the laboratory leading up to getting the last key to fight him was also extremely rewarding, because it felt exactly as you said - cohesive instead of exclusive. I felt a sense of team pride working together with the Kong family to complete the game, and my god if they only made every level like that - this thing could have been something huger. One final thought - I thought the strongest point of the game was the variety of characters to choose from, but it could have been done in a much smoother and more different way. Each Kong had a different feel and personality to them so it kept it interesting until you had to use them each 40 times every world.
1m1337noSh1t Doesn't matter how long a game is, if the game drags like hell and feels extremely boring 90% of the time, that negates the long-lasting aspect
This game should have a remaster so that they can have a chance to not only get better graphics on this game, but to fix these problems. It would be perfect. I would get a N Switch If this came out for it.
DK64 is my GAME! I love it to bits. I had to watch this video. I can agree that the mini-games weren't the best, but I personally think everything else was so fun and unique. The collecting wasn't an issue for me. I liked playing as all of them. Even if they weren't all working together per se, I enjoyed the uniqueness of each Kong. Good video regardless.
I have to admit, the whole "Every Kong can only collect special Bananas" thing was also the deal breaker for me. I loved this Game, but eventually got tired of the endless Kong switching just to collect some measily Bananas to get those freaking Boss Gates opend and screamed at the Pig to fucking Jump a little so I dont have to go scouring for 20 more Bananas that I missed somewhere. Geez!
Tbh I think it'd kind of ruin the charm. Walking through the while level as a different character figuring out how to get all the collectibles was sometimes a fun puzzle. It was at times just a lot of back tracking. But tbh if I could switch on the fly I'd really never give some character a chance except when I had to.
That would be cool but I would also like a new Donkey Kong game with similar game play. New worlds, better graphics and different enemies since RareWare has the rights to K. Rool.
@@87Khein Wait doesn't nintendo still own the rights to all donkey kong characters including K rool? (not counting Conker and Banjo whom were in diddy kong racing) Because Nintendo sold rare in 2002 and K rool's last appearance in a donkey kong game was 2007-2008 ish.
Only thing I disagree with is the segregated boss fights. I think those were a bold move but were a great choice. It helps make the player involved with all characters of the game.
MRS Plays how? The doors close if you approach with a different Kong. I half agree, Adam, but I think they needed to make the boss fights only beatable with a certain Kong, if that were the case. Like the Jack in the Box fight - Only Tiny can do that one. Basically all the other fights could be done with any Kong. So they should have either given us that option, or made the boss fights more specific to that kong.
Watch a speedrun: They glitch through the stairs and get in with whatever kong they want. Also, some speedrunners do the Jack in the Box fight with DK instead of Tiny, just to point out.
You want to know what the worst bit of design in this game is? the Nintendo and Rareware coins being required to beat the game 100%. Fuck that DK arcade machine and fuck the other arcade game.
Not only is it required to beat the game 101%, it's required to beat the fucking game in general. You can't get the boss key to King K. Rool without it, since it's locked behind a door that needs the coins to open it. Probably the worst part about it, aside from having to play some old-school tough games, is that without prior knowledge, you're going to get to the final area of K. Rool's lair and see a locked door requiring 2 objects that you've never seen before, forcing you to exit the level, look up how to get them on Google (in the 90's it was even worse since Google wasn't popular) and beat Jetpac and Donkey Kong, go back to Hideout Helm, and finally, open the door and get the fucking key. *THIS IS FUCKING INSANE!* What was going on in the developers heads when making this section?! Talk about backtracking, like, fucking hell! This one part sums up about the entire gameplay of DK64.
+Paul Honey I could beat it, but the fact that you _had_ to beat it is pretty mind-numbing. Did you even read the rest of my comment by the way? I gave some valid criticism other than "hurr its hard it should be removed"
The problem with your argument is it's actually quite hard to balance the characters while making them unique, and players would stick with their favorite except when forced to switch. This would truncate the length of the game and reduce the difficulty.
Super Mario Bros 2 lets you switch between characters and it works fine. Also you call it truncating the length and reducing the difficulty, I call it cutting the fat and reducing the pointless busywork.
@@Russakaja No, it didn't. These games are actually fun because they don't force you with shit that isn't fun to play. Also, your english is terrible, i can hardly understand what you're trying to say.
@@Russakaja i talking about forcing to do unfun things. Hunting down stars, equipment, jiggies is fun. Backtracking 5 times in the same place only to get some bananas that only a specific kong can get is not fun.
+RynKen Yeah that's what I was thinking. If they had a quick change option instead of having to back track to change, things more than likely would've gone a lot smoother. But, yknow, hardware limitations and all that jazz.
+Demon Lord, Cal (Brandon) Someone else suggested a 5 player co-op mode where each player plays 1 kong, and THAT would be awesome! But speaking of hardware limitations... :P
When people nag about the amount of collectibles, they only do so because collecting them feels like a chore. If they were all fun to collect people wouldn't care how many there are.
The problem is that unlike in games like Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64, Jak and Daxter, and Spyro where they made collecting items fun and motivating. Donkey Kong 64 went way overboard with the process of collecting items. The need to switch Kongs over and over again to get an item was boring and annoying. It made the game repetitive.
1. DK64 is a good game. 2. DK64 is blighted by collection tasks to the nth degree. 3. DK64 is bug heaven. Oh well, I love the game for what it is, even with all it's imperfections. EDIT: If they remastered DK64 for the Switch/NX with new graphics and with all their knowledge they have now it would be a nice throwback game.
1. He said it was a good game. Listen at the beginning next time. 2. He dismissed that since other games of the same kind had that many too 3. I agree. It's buggy as heck but fun to explore.
The backtracking was even worse when you consider that not every Kong is available at the beginning of the game. You never get Chunky until Frantic Factory, and suddenly, you have to go back by about 3 worlds to get all his stuff. Anyway, one thing I hated about collectathons in general was how they task you collect all the tiny shit throughout a level, be it coins or bananas or rings or whatever. In previous 2D platforms, this was no big deal. Just collect a hundred of them, and you get an extra life (as well as add to your high score, though that's kinda lost its purpose ever since games went to home consoles). Convenient, but not something you need to do, and in fact, could usually be accomplished in a completely passive manner. But starting from, at the latest, Super Mario 64, this is suddenly mandatory to 100% a game (and in worse cases, mandatory just to complete the game, seeing as you need a certain number of collectibles just to progress). Thankfully, in the case of Mario 64, you just needed 100 coins, which (usually) doesn't equate to practically every coin in a level, but it's still obnoxious as fuck to track them all down (what especially makes these tiny collectibles a pain is that most are right there in plain sight, but then you have to search every nook and cranny in hopes of getting those last few). Banjo-Kazooie was probably the worst offender; track down 100 notes in a level in a single go, without losing a life. Ugh. I'll gladly take DK64's segmented collectibles over that crap. At least those colored bananas get saved the moment you grab them (well, the game doesn't save automatically, but you get what I mean). Thankfully, Rare seemed to have learned their lesson by the time Banjo-Tooie came out, because that was probably the most well-handled of the N64 collectathons. The tiny collectibles are saved individually AND they give them to you in clusters. Though, I can't say I commend the backtracking that game involved (mainly due to worlds being directly connected to one another), but otherwise, it was pretty good. Truth be told, platformers were my favorite genre as a kid. But as of the N64 era, while I still enjoyed them, they dropped considerably in how I favored them, and I'm not sure if it was due to this collecting shit they suddenly forced upon them, the really bad camera controls, or a combination of both along with possibly other minor grievances. I guess I could understand WHY they did this; when going from 2D to 3D, worlds become about free exploration, and the goal's no longer as simple as going from point A to point B (though this was still possible; Sonic did it, but Sonic games have had a horrible time in the 3D realm, and they mainly accomplished keeping "reach the goal" the main objective by severely limiting your range of movement anyway). However, in doing this, it feels like they just turned platformers into a poor man's RPGs (RPGs having always allowed free exploration in a.... kinda sorta three-dimensional plane). Ironically, RPGs have since become my genre of choice.
+YamatoFukkatsu Good point about the jump from 2D to 3D, suddenly the meaningless collectibles became necessary. That was the thing with DK64, every thing had to have a purpose, even if it was totally meaningless
+James S It has options, but only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation. Fungi Forest was even worse: Oh, you can enter this barn, but only if you have Lanky out, and only if its nighttime (one of like 10 examples in that level). It's not even the backtracking, I seriously didn't really care about that, but the whole game was such a chore because I only did things alone with all the kongs.
+snomaN Gaming "only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation" Do you realise that this is as asinine as saying "Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations" or "Zelda Oracle of Seasons is bad because you have to switch between the seasons to progress through the game- I want to complete the whole game just on Summer!" The notion that it's bad that you need to do particular things with particular Kongs is so bizarre that, honestly, it barely qualifies as a criticism. If you don't like the game because of various things, that's fine, I'm not going to tell you what to like or dislike, just don't refer to it as a 'game design flaw'.
randomguy6679 He perfectly stated out what many ppl here were thinking. Those objectives and options are NOT a bad game design. I could accept that you count the camera from dk64 as bad design but it was their first 3D game and for that they did an awesome job. It has many collectibles but it offers such a huge variety. Having to visit the places repeatedly with different Kongs is pretty unique and a brave step into new video game design atleast when the game came out. He was simply bragging about little things which may be a little annoying but he stated that as bad game design which is absolutely not correct.
"Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations" Well at least you never had to run back the the start of every dungeon, enter a room, and select a small list of items to use. LoZ games have every item right at your disposal, so that argument is not relevant. Besides, he's not saying the game is bad. At the START OF THE VIDEO, he said that it was still a GOOD game. Am I the only one who listens fully anymore?
In the past I'm sure i would've tried to reach 101% but lately i can't be bothered to achieve/explore everything. Just go as fast to the end and move to the next haha
+Wahaller YES - and DK64 is just a rip off of it. It feels like they just churned it out because people expected them to make a 3D DK game at some point, and filled it with a lot of collectables and backtracking for lastability instead of gameplay.
Well to be fair BK:N&B had pretty good design, but it was still the wrong game. Think about Link's Crossbow Training. It was a short but fun game, but nobody complained about it because it was just a spin-off. If Link's Crossbow Training was released INSTEAD of Twilight Princess and was the only Zelda game released for a few years, then people would genuinely hate it. It's all about player choice, if the player can't chose to play a standard game, they're gonna be displeased.
Jackson Percy It's very sad. You can see beautiful open environments in BK:N&B like it was made to explore - and it was. But they changed it to vehicle creation halfway through. Even the teaser announcement video suggested it was going to be an adventure game. Apparently MS said that collectable games were getting boring so the team had to do something new and different.
That would make it too easy and far quicker to play, I don't like it. I'm just fine with the tag barrels as they are. I always liked the anticipation of returning to an area you saw earlier with the correct Kong to see what it would reveal next.
Two problems, firstly a lot of the challenges are almost like QTEs that are programmed to a very specific Kong, and secondly it seems pointless to constantly switch between Kongs just to get a certain color of banana or coin, they should let any Kong grab any thing regardless of color.
You do not have to collect all the collectibles, but for people who want to collect everything they just added a little extra replay ability for completionist by having to do each level on each character.
the big problem with DK64 was it's short dev time of 17 months, if you watch a speed run of the game you learn that things like walls are a mere suggestion for this game.
@Terry Mitchell All I'd really wsnt from a sequel is maybe coop and fine tune the controls. I recently replayed dk 64 and its hard to do some challenges because the controls are janky
Sir, I must defend this game on the basis of Lanky Kong. I understand he lacks both style and grace. Some even say he has a funny face. But he can handstand when he needs to, and stretches his arms out just for you. Additionally, he inflates himself similarly to the Hindenburg. Most importantly, however, this kong just digs this tune.
And let's not forget, the Kong who's here for you, the last member of the DK crew, the Kong's so strong, it isn't funny, he makes bigger kremlins cry out for mummy! He picks up boulders, with relative ease, makes crushing rocks seem such a breeze, he may move slow, he can't jump high, but Chunky Kong's, one FUCK of a guy!
DK64 takes everything I dislike about "collect-a-thon" games and cranks it to 11. There are all kinds of games I enjoy that feature collecting things, exploring, and trying to find as many secrets as possible -- but it's all in how you integrate it. You have to make the player WANT to do it. Make them think it's THEIR idea. Either make it entirely optional, to unlock bonuses, or give them an advantage -- like a new weapon in an out-of-the-way treasure box, or increased missile capacity. For those times where you must block off progression, make it feel organic. Give a story reason why you need to talk to somebody or locate a hidden item. Present them with a practical obstacle, like a wide gap, that you need the double-jump boots to make it over. And if you're going to force the player to bring a specific character in order to pass through, then it had better be because that character has a unique and innate ability which provides the solution. Hell, you can even have a literal pad or floor tile, that requires great strength to slam down and activate it. You can have something like the Hammer in Zelda, that lets you smash it down -- or even have a big, heavy character who is needed to stomp on it. It's a little artificial, but can work if it's not overused. But for crap's sake, don't have floor tiles that may only be stomped down by certain characters, simply because their FACE is painted on it. How does that make any sense at all!? At LEAST dress it up so that it SEEMS different, on a superficial level. Tell us they're "hacking a computer" or "picking a lock" or something. Don't just say "This is the little girl tile. Only little girls can stomp on this tile." Remember Little Nemo: The Dream Master? It was heavily based around exploring every inch of the levels, literally to find a bunch of keys to open a door. Actually sounds kind of lame, on paper. But it worked, because there were only a handful of keys, not hundreds. And you needed specific animal helpers in order to get to certain places, but for reasons that made sense -- as a bee, you could fly high, as a salamander you could climb walls, and as a mole you could dig through the earth. You don't ever get to a door with a salamander's face on it, that says "Only a salamander is allowed to come through here." And when you get to a key, you can always pick it up -- it's not like you ever find a yellow key that only takes corporeal form when touched by a bee.
I'm currently replaying DK 64 and I too used to get frustrated and overwhelmed by how much each character had to do. I used to switch characters every few minutes when I saw something another character had to pick up or do. This go around, I take it one character at a time. Do everything Donkey has to do in a level, then switch to Diddy, etc. Sometime characters do have to hit switches, open doors, etc. for each other, but even then, I'm careful not to get side-tracked. Once I got this "system" down, it's not so bad.
BUT BUT BUT Donkey Kong 64 was my CHILDHOOD! Why would you insult my CHILDHOOD? It was my CHILDHOOD and now you wrecked my CHILDHOOD with this video about my CHILDHOOD... Great vid buddy
I was so worried this would be a rant against a game I loved as a kid. I'm glad it's such an incredibly thoughtful, perspective video. Awesome job! I love it.
Almost every problem you mentioned would be solved by adding the ability to switch Kongs anywhere, instead of having to find a tag barrel. You know, like you could do in all three previous games.
more of a spiritual sequel to banjo-kazooie/tooie, but keep an eye out for yooka-laylee. devs include former rare employees and it's coming out on all platforms! looks very promising so far.
I just picked this game up again after ten years, and I definitely hate having to run back and forth in between the Kong barrel and 15 different bananas of different colors over and over again, but I really do love it. It's dope af.
Dislikes you got on this video are undeserved, but i'd like to offer a counterpoint. Making levels that can be traversed with any character leads to either characters that are too similar, or level designs that are very vague, flat, trivial and samey. Now you could have the same goals and alternative paths depending on character abilities, but then you're running against hardware limitations.
Siana Gearz How about dividing the levels into segments one for each kong as oppose to having to go back and switch character four fucking times in the same tunnel. This has been done before, there's no design or technological limitations here.
Well, here's a thought. If the five or six characters are going to feel samey, if you give them alternative ways to do the same thing... why not improve the level, and drop the extra characters?
The DKC trilogy consists entirely of levels that can be traversed with any of their characters (in fairness, each of those games only has two characters), and those were fine. You could simply remove all the colour-coding, without changing anything else, so that anyone can collect any item or hit any switch they can reach, and any could use a magic barrel or pad to trigger their personal power. That wouldn't make the characters any more samey, or the levels any flatter. This also turns challenge areas into (mostly still pretty easy) puzzles for free: rather than "Here's a Diddy pad; clearly I have to use Diddy's pad power here," it becomes "Which pad power will solve this challenge?" Puzzles might naturally have multiple solutions, like a hazardous obstacle course where you can either blitz with invincibility, fly over, shrink to take a shortcut, sprint, or brute force through. Or they might not, so every Kong gets a little screen time, but they earn it by being useful, not by having a button with their face on it.
Except maybe the instrument switches in part; like waking up the llama with a triangle that puts people to sleep? Not likely. The others could do it, but still.
To be honest, playing as 5 different characters puts up a lot of competition among them. I feel you should be able to play as one of the five and bring another as a partner whenever you switch, that way you can have a CPU help you along and you can instantly switch controls to them if you need it. This also might allow for duo boss fights, and optimizing routes through a level that isn't so segmented.
plz do more like these, i highly enjoyed the video and editing, you focused on the facts and argument, gave a counter-argument, and didn;t use cringey humor, subscribed off this video, good job.
I appreciate that you put the caveat of actually enjoying it yourself. Thanks for a balanced review. I personally loved it because it was another 3-D platformer with tons of stuff to collect, a good amount of characters with different abilities that help you explore levels further when you revisit them. But yeah, I tried playing it only a few years ago as an adult, and I couldn't get into it the way I was as a kid. Not sure why, and I'd have to think about the points you made to see they might be why. Maybe I'll update this comment if I ever remember why it just didn't resonate me later on in life. Love the game to bits, wish there were more games like this with better execution, and great memories with it, but I'll leave it in the past. I remember the day I tried a demo of it at a movie theater, and then finally getting it and playing the shit out of it. It was a worthwhile experience for my childhood and will cherish it forever. Here are fingers crossed for Yookalele being an awesome improvement!
I'd like to add that THE SIMPSONS game did what you suggested, in terms of characters complimenting each other through completing different tasks for each other throughout levels. I loved that about it!
I've been 101% completing this for past 2 months. Playing randomly when I get the time. I've been playing this game since it came out, and this is the first time I've attempted to complete the game on my own without any help and I gotta tell you, it's frustrating at certain parts. I completely agree with you on the banana barrels. Beaver Bother is the worst. The tedious trying over and over again to get certain collectibles is frustrating. I don't mind the smaller collectibles as it makes it fun to explore the level with each Kong's abilities. But the Coins and Barrels... just too draining...
I sucked at Beaver Bother but I 101% completed the game over a dozen times I got a lot better. Pretty much don't scare the beaver until you run pass it then it'll guarantee go in
+Jackson Percy You know you can just press and hold R (on an N64 controller) to re-center the camera behind the player character's back. Unless the camera icon is on the corner of the screen, that is.
The level with squaks was weird cause sometimes he would flash the light in the wrong direction. This forced you to find the path in darkness 8:20 Falling wasn't so bad since it places you at the cabin door but it was a nightmare to no death speed running.
Doug Skotnitsky On the surface, they're very similar. However the Banjo games were far more polished and the worlds and music were more creative. In Banjo Tooie in particular, they didn't keep recycling the same mini games or bosses (except for the FPS mini games, but at least there was some differences each time). Splitting up Banjo and Kazooie to solve different puzzles or access different areas also didn't feel like mindless busywork. The Banjo games focused on quality whereas DK64 focused on quantity. Just put more stuff in the game and that'll keep the kids happy! One other thing I find funny is that some of the worlds in DK64 feel smaller than their Banjo counterparts, even though this game is supposed to be bigger. I noticed there are an abundance of hallways that lead to a lot of medium sized areas. Angry Aztec and Fungi Forest are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.
+Doug Skotnitsky I agree that the Banjo games are a bit more precise and memorable, but the notes resetting when you die definitely was a big problem, glad they fixed it in the Xbox version
Please make more of these, they are both helpful, and interesting. As someone who wants to make games in the future this is one great resource that I can use to make different choices in what I plan to create. Thanks!
I think all of this could be solved by getting rid of the tag barrel and instead switching kongs with the d pad or something. That way you could switch easily and maintain the connectivity and flow of game instead of having to run back to a tag barrel each time
I always heard that the backtracking was awful in DK64 so I never played it until I got bored one day and decided to give it a shot and to be honest it's not that bad I agree it can be annoying but there's a certain rhythm to it that I find really enjoyable and the DK arcade cabinet really wasn't that bad it wasn't mandatory to beat and was a pretty fun challenge in my opinion after having to play it over and over again I can now say that I'm really good at the original Donkey Kong
I used to play this a lot as a kid, but I never was able to progress very far or unlock anything. I made my parents drive me to blockbuster to go get the strategy guide, but even with the walkthrough guidebook I wasn't able to figure out where to go or what to do. I ended up just wandering around in the game all the time because I didn't know what my objective was supposed to be. I would always get frustrated with the clumsy movement and camera angles and end up quitting and playing super Mario 64 instead
Banjo Tooie has Notes, Jiggies, 2 kinds of feathers, 5 kinds of eggs, Jinjos, Glowbos, Cheato pages, Honeycombs, and Game packs. Kazooie has less, but I didn't mention Kazooie
yeah, and even if you just count the types of collectibles you have to multiply that number by the amount of kongs for most of them so it becomes a huge number!
I would definitely separate power-ups from what the game expects you to actually collect. For example, DKC3 had banana birds, bonus coins, and DK coins. I wouldn't count bananas, the green bananas or stars within the bonus stages, the bear coins, the extra lives... That just seems like padding of the actual number. I'm not even sure how you got up to 15 for DKC3.
snomaN Gaming That's a good way to do it. I have my own podcast that I do, this month was "game design month" for me. A few weeks ago, during a discussion on boss battles and game design, we started talking about a game called "One" for the Playstation, and I ended up recommending looking at that game only to learn the bad game design choices that were made in that game. When you have a good understanding on why a game design concept is bad, then you can learn from that and avoid making the same mistakes.
Personally I think having stuff for certain kongs is a good thing in terms of having their own custom designed section or even boss fights. They just went too far with bananas and coins.
i really enjoy this game as it was designed, only problem for me was the camera which in some parts was ackward and the arcade games which were really hard, too much in my opinion.
Just a note; You can love something and also butcher it with critisism. I love Legend of Zelda OOT, but I see all the flaws it has and is ready to get my saw to show them.
I feel like the segmentation and backtracking is what I love about the game, but that may be because my playstyle is stick to a kong in a level until running out of things to do with them then switching, so I never felt franticly needing to constantly tag barrel. I do wish It used the animal buddies more though.
This is the intended way to play. I really dont see why most people just dont understand this. youre not meant to change every single time you see a different colored banana. youre supposed to remember where they are for later. It always felt good when you remembered where certain things were with certain kongs after a few hours. It tested your memory and spatial awareness.
2:40 It becomes MUCH worse if you try to play it on Virtual Console. Without having C BUTTONS to work and using a C stick, the camera controls are way more annoying than the original version.
+GamerOfFate That must've been why it was so frustrating for me. I kept zooming into 1st person view, or playing my musical instrument when I'm just trying to pull out my gun. I was getting so mad lol! Yeah the VC version is not great
As Klaptrap, snap your jaws at that retarded beavers and avoid the pit at all cost by leaping over it. If you scare the stupid beavers at the right time, you'll scare them stupid to where they run into the pit all by themselves. You don't have to constantly be chasing them. Still annoying asf since you're TIMED. Lol I felt pure anger and hatred from childhood 15 years ago when I saw beaver bother in this video. SERIOUSLY F uck that barrel bonus stage!!! 😫😡🤬
When you use a dead person for clickbait
smh
and then theres Chunky
He’s Dead
...
Huh!
DK, Chunky’s dead
@@lightningxd9505 *D-D-D-DK CHUNKYS DEAD*
Have >person
Lightning Awsome
DK
Now the song is over!
Jaystation finna make
SUMMONING CHUNKY KONG AT 3 AM CHALLENGE
How dare you put chunky in the thumbnail, he’s dead
AND THEN THERES CHUNKY
@@pixel_6493 lol
DK! Chunky's dead!
@@pixel_6493 he's dead.
*Awkward silence*
@@slytheguy6988 NOW THE SONG OVER
"What? DK64 was a masterpiece!"
*Watches Video*
"Fair point."
I agree, but even the best of video games have flaws...
+PkmariO64 NintendoFan
Yeah, this video raises a lot of good points. I never really thought about it before, but the game is very backtrack heavy.
+JuiceBoxWizard I hate back tracking, especially when you have to switch a character every five seconds for one or two bananas.....
+JuiceBoxWizard Especially in the beginning when you unlock a new Kong.
+JuiceBoxWizard I'm curious, did you play Banjo Kazooie before this? This is a lame rip-off of BK basically. Everything you like about DK64, BK did it better.
Choose your power
Style
Grace
>A funny face
George Saffos >:0
and a coconut gun
CG!
Coconut Gun!
CG!
Cococonut Gun!
the style of reviving chunky kong
style: none
grace: none
face: funny
I would LOVE a remake of this game that allows you to press a button on the D pad to switch Kong’s. That literally fixes almost everything about this game
Like Harry Potter?
Nah I like it as is.
I haven’t actually played DK64, but all of the gameplay I’ve seen it looks like the backtracking to the tag barrel looks like the worst part of the game. I plan on playing it at some point though
Also that godforsaken DK arcade game
A remake would be absolutely cherished by me. The remake should include, among many other things, THE ABILITY TO DELETE THE FU@#ING BANANA FAIRIES!!!!!!
I love how Chunky whispers "Tiny" when you go to select him
Did you know that in DK64 Tiny is older than Chunky? WHAT THE FU-
@@TheGoombaFromNowhere Definitely took me by surprise as well. She's also his cousin which might explain why he feels comfortable shoving the player onto her instead
Here’s how the Kong family tree works: Cranky was the original DK, and he and Wrinkly had DK Jr. He got together with SOMEONE and had the modern DK and and an unseen brother. His brother got together with someone had Diddy. Dixie is from a completely different family. She has to parents who had her and Tiny, and one of the had a brother who had Chunky and Kiddy with someone.
@@TheGoombaFromNowhere I always thought Kiddy was Dixie's brother
Also he does this even IF you haven't unlocked Tiny yet.
I didn't realize how mixed of a reception this game had until many years later. Say what you want, but this is in my top 20 games of all time. Very fond memories
Top 5 for me, best collectathon
Me too. The ost gives me chills
Same for me and I haven’t even played it😂😭 I’ve only ever watched my big cousin play but now I got I switch and I wish they remade it or at least done the same thing as the Mario deluxe and put three old games in with only little changes
I still remember waking up Saturday mornings, making some egos, then playing this game lol as a 8 year old this game was extremely difficult 😂
My Favorite 64 Game.
This guy is acting like he's programmed better games IN 1999!!!!
What I did as a kid to make it easier on the collectables was just sticking to one Kong only until I got all of most of the collectables and THEN I'd switch them, it makes the game more enjoyable to me
I'm 99% sure this is how the game was meant to be played.
Wow, that sounds like....common sense lol. This video was nitpicking at its finest.
I recently played this game again after buying an N64 If it wasn't for the collectibles the game wouldn't last long at all, my save is currently around 83% with a playtime of 28 hours, you take those collectibles away and It would easily be done in less than an hour because the only purpose would be defeating the bosses in each area, it would make the rest of each level pointless, people like to moan about very little things, to me this game was almost flawless the only issues for me were the arcade games and beaver bother, everything else was perfect
@@heckinbasedandinkpilledoct7459 well then people would have to play the levels 5 times which is another issue entirely
Minty Mit why is that an issue? Replay value on a level is good.
If there WERE uneven amounts of bannanas for each kong, my OCD would be triggered faster than you can say "Tumblr"
Tiny Kong gets a 6th banana on DK island for fairies. #gettriggered
TheMoloman
Shh. We don't talk about that one.
Aye.
+Rixor12. lol
N JK Jesus this thread was ages ago
he has a point with the camera angle believe me its hard
Still better than Mario 64's camera.
***** There's always Tomb Raider's camera (which is also BAD and it has tank controls :D)
***** the original
Just press the R button you turd (-_-)
The camera can be hard if you let it. The bit he showed with Diddy in the Angry Aztec place, he's using the wrong camera angle there, it's obvious he's gonna fall, or the "tongue" retracts itself before he gets to the other side.
Still, I've often said Rare was the best developer on the N64. When I make a top ten, I always notice a huge chunk all came from Rare. Star Fox, Conker, Banjo, Golden Eye and Perfect Dark are just classics.
star fox wasnt by rare
markasscop Arev Huh, you're right. They developed the first one, so I guess I just assumed they made the sequel
Wrong again. They only made Star Fox Adventures... Google fu fails me today
wait why look it up? the rarware logo never appears in star fox 64
markasscop Arev I don't own it on the 64 currently, so I was pulling from memory
The actual worst part of the game was when you bought it used. Then putting it into the 64 and finding out that you needed an expansion pack.
montesguitar do you really? So what did you do
@@IceInVeins916I had to convince my dad to go buy me a new expansion pack from target for about 30-35 dollars at the time.
I do agree with that
That's why you should have bought the n64 dk green console instead!
@matt fahringer wow! What useless input! Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation!
I simply got baffled by the levels in general, I had no idea what to do and where to go.
PurpleStorm8 so easy to get stuck
You can design an open world but still have ways to direct the player. For example, areas that are lit up automatically draw the player towards them, and trails of bananas can lead you in the right direction.
Yeah the levels are huge to the point of being overwhelming, and the only way they really direct players is through banana trails, but those aren't necessarily good directional advice, and once you collect them, they're gone.
Maintenance - yeah pretty much. I do still enjoy DK64, but in my mind, Banjo Kazooie is the closest thing we've ever seen to a perfect 3D platform collectathon.
You're probably better off playing 2d games
What I really appreciate about this kind of video essay compared to some others I've seen is that what you're showing in the video actually matches what you're talking about at basically all points. It's very appealing and something under-appreciated.
Except at 1:02 when talking about the good parts of the game while the bunny race is on screen
do a good game design Superman 64. It was my fav game as a kid
Keaton Knippel Ayyy lmao
good idea
Such innovative controls.
I'm sorry for you.
You poor, poor soul
Bad Game Design - Beaver Bother
Fuck those beavers.
This is a fantastic video. Not just because you found what didn't work, and why, but you thought of things that COULD work in their place!
+NitroRad Hey thank you :) I thought it would be pointless to just rag on the game without trying to think of some solutions
yikes
Yeah, he found things that would result in a completely different game!
@@snomangaming you would be amazed at how many youtubers do just that, present problems and make no attempt to find a solution
Hey nitro rad how’s your day
CG
Coconut gun
HE IS QUICK AND NIMBLE AND QUICK AND NIMBLE AND QUICK AND NIMBLE
THIS COCONUT SHIT ISN'T FUNNY
Jack Robinson HIS CONCNUT GUN, CAN FIRE IN SPURTS.
Jack Robinson HE'S THE GUN MEMBER OF THE COCONUT CREW
D D D D
DONKEY DONKEY DONKEY DONKEY
"It let's you decide that Dixie is obviously the better choice and you should never choose Kiddie"
Haha! yep!
One thing I do love about this game is the humor, though. I love how Chunky is such a wimpy baby and immediately starts worshipping the dragon boss out of fear.
No, the stakes were lowered. Mess with DK's bananas, IT'S GONNA HURT
Warghost890
C G
Coconut Gun
King Weedede i have the dk rap in my itunes
Wtf why after people quoting siiva
I'm gonna be honest: When I first clicked on the video I thought it was gonna be some unappreciative guy bashing what is one of my all time favorite games, but as the video wore on I found myself agreeing more and more with the issues and evidence presented. Well done on the video man. You earned this sub.
My thoughts exactly! I saw his title and the "Nostalgia Ogre" in me started screaming like a tantrum child at this obvious clickbaity bitch whiny rant. Then I watched, got at the flaws and I realized "snomaN" was ABSOLUTELY 100% right.
I remember the many frustrations I've had with the collectibles and camera system but overlooked those flaws because my 10 year old self didn't know what a badly designed game was, I just concluded that I was bad at playing it. Above all, I remember how limiting it felt, not having all 5 Kongs available at the beginning. Entering a huge adventure filled stage for the first time. The way my heart raced ready explore!..... Only to discover 50+ sectioned off areas that only certain Kongs could access, just to piss off my peanut brain and hinder progress.
Banjo-Kazooie on the other hand did exactly what DK64 didn't, it made the 2 characters work as one to complete tasks, they will both always be classics to me. Banjo however might have been the better adventure game.
Cameron Nurmi Same here.
well... I couldn't remember why I disliked the game as a child (I was 10), but it's all coming back to me after watching this video. I do have some rather subjective reasons as well as the things he mentioned, but fuck me! my personal opinions are unimportant as hell in this particular case so I won't even go there.
Saaame!
Same here. Great analysis.
i agree with the collectibles it was a little much but didnt bother me. but u wanted the kongs to work with eachother through the whole game and have ur own choice and beat it a different way. That would be a game waaaaay before its time
Yeah I agree, that's why I focused on the future at the end, I want to learn from things in the past to make even better games in the future
Those collectibles actually made me never finish the game. It just felt unnecessary to go through every section 5 times. After some time you'll forgot which sections you have already searched, too.:/
Majoras mask did this way better
I hope whenever the next 3D DK is in development, the devs look at this video to.make the perfect one. I loved DK64, but you definitely have some valid points.
Except that's what Banjo Tooie did, it had multiple characters that did separate things than enabled them to do other things, while also having things unique only they could do. Banjo and Kazooie on their own, as well as Mumbo.
you didn't mention how.... FRUSTRATING The Diddy Kong jetpack is to control.
The jetpack's obnoxious controls are the reason I never beat the game. I'd waste a HALF HOUR of the Hideout Helm time trying to do the rings.
Teirusu155 I had a harder time with races, epecially the one with Tiny Kong against the blue-purple bug thing in the Aztec level.
You hit the nail RIGHT on the head and said it better than I ever could. Just replayed this game because my nostalgia and memories told me that this was the best game ever, but I could not have been more wrong. I found that the entire game dragged and felt like a job, doing tedious grunt work for hours - after I put the game down it felt exhausting, like I just did a load of homework. The core mechanic of the game is running around a giant map to collect colored bananas and going back and forth to the tag barrel to go to the SAME EXACT spot 4 more times.
That being said, not only was King K. Rool was one of the funnest bosses in my experience in playing platformers, but the laboratory leading up to getting the last key to fight him was also extremely rewarding, because it felt exactly as you said - cohesive instead of exclusive. I felt a sense of team pride working together with the Kong family to complete the game, and my god if they only made every level like that - this thing could have been something huger.
One final thought - I thought the strongest point of the game was the variety of characters to choose from, but it could have been done in a much smoother and more different way. Each Kong had a different feel and personality to them so it kept it interesting until you had to use them each 40 times every world.
Yup, you feel me! Absolutely agreee
Back then 1 game took months to beat so theres that
1m1337noSh1t Doesn't matter how long a game is, if the game drags like hell and feels extremely boring 90% of the time, that negates the long-lasting aspect
thewaterman122 Yes times have changed
This game should have a remaster so that they can have a chance to not only get better graphics on this game, but to fix these problems. It would be perfect. I would get a N Switch If this came out for it.
Zomagedon rare is owned by Microsoft. Technically they can’t remaster it
@@TheAceKannon well banjo is in smash so we can hope
@@TheAceKannon I mean there can always be a partnership of some kind
DK64 is my GAME! I love it to bits. I had to watch this video. I can agree that the mini-games weren't the best, but I personally think everything else was so fun and unique. The collecting wasn't an issue for me. I liked playing as all of them. Even if they weren't all working together per se, I enjoyed the uniqueness of each Kong. Good video regardless.
I have to admit, the whole "Every Kong can only collect special Bananas" thing was also the deal breaker for me. I loved this Game, but eventually got tired of the endless Kong switching just to collect some measily Bananas to get those freaking Boss Gates opend and screamed at the Pig to fucking Jump a little so I dont have to go scouring for 20 more Bananas that I missed somewhere. Geez!
It could've been fixed with just letting you swap Kongs on the fly.
Tbh I think it'd kind of ruin the charm. Walking through the while level as a different character figuring out how to get all the collectibles was sometimes a fun puzzle. It was at times just a lot of back tracking. But tbh if I could switch on the fly I'd really never give some character a chance except when I had to.
I’m late but Kaze made a Gameshark code that does exactly that, here’s the vid: ruclips.net/video/GlNhSoX5UZ0/видео.html
If this video doesn't give ideas for a rom hack, I don't know....
Doubt it
There's Super Donkey Kong 64 lol it's a rom hack of Mario 64 with DK64s levels and music
Kaze Emanuar made a major improvement with his rom hack that allows you to switch Kongs anywhere.
Kaze did it
Still waiting for the Donkey Kong 64 remaster
Yeah me too
That would be cool but I would also like a new Donkey Kong game with similar game play. New worlds, better graphics and different enemies since RareWare has the rights to K. Rool.
@@87Khein Wait doesn't nintendo still own the rights to all donkey kong characters including K rool? (not counting Conker and Banjo whom were in diddy kong racing) Because Nintendo sold rare in 2002 and K rool's last appearance in a donkey kong game was 2007-2008 ish.
Or what about another 3D DK game ?
Only thing I disagree with is the segregated boss fights. I think those were a bold move but were a great choice. It helps make the player involved with all characters of the game.
Technically you can fight the bosses with any character, but it`s nice to know which one the game recommends.
MRS Plays how? The doors close if you approach with a different Kong.
I half agree, Adam, but I think they needed to make the boss fights only beatable with a certain Kong, if that were the case. Like the Jack in the Box fight - Only Tiny can do that one. Basically all the other fights could be done with any Kong. So they should have either given us that option, or made the boss fights more specific to that kong.
Watch a speedrun: They glitch through the stairs and get in with whatever kong they want.
Also, some speedrunners do the Jack in the Box fight with DK instead of Tiny, just to point out.
omg please no more jack in the box i keep getting flashbacks
MRS Plays You need to understand that glitches =/= design.
You want to know what the worst bit of design in this game is? the Nintendo and Rareware coins being required to beat the game 100%. Fuck that DK arcade machine and fuck the other arcade game.
Mashin Chaser *101%
YES!
Not only is it required to beat the game 101%, it's required to beat the fucking game in general. You can't get the boss key to King K. Rool without it, since it's locked behind a door that needs the coins to open it. Probably the worst part about it, aside from having to play some old-school tough games, is that without prior knowledge, you're going to get to the final area of K. Rool's lair and see a locked door requiring 2 objects that you've never seen before, forcing you to exit the level, look up how to get them on Google (in the 90's it was even worse since Google wasn't popular) and beat Jetpac and Donkey Kong, go back to Hideout Helm, and finally, open the door and get the fucking key. *THIS IS FUCKING INSANE!* What was going on in the developers heads when making this section?! Talk about backtracking, like, fucking hell! This one part sums up about the entire gameplay of DK64.
These just sound like salty comments from people that couldn't beat the arcade games. 😜
+Paul Honey I could beat it, but the fact that you _had_ to beat it is pretty mind-numbing. Did you even read the rest of my comment by the way? I gave some valid criticism other than "hurr its hard it should be removed"
DK64 is the Dark Souls of Collectibles items
No it ain't, most of game is fairly easy, minus a few very difficult mini-games.
Thomas Ruth its a joke m8
ayyyy good one
Banjo tooie is tho
Dark Souls doesn't suck though
The problem with your argument is it's actually quite hard to balance the characters while making them unique, and players would stick with their favorite except when forced to switch. This would truncate the length of the game and reduce the difficulty.
Super Mario Bros 2 lets you switch between characters and it works fine. Also you call it truncating the length and reducing the difficulty, I call it cutting the fat and reducing the pointless busywork.
I don't remember If you could change freely In Super Mario Bros 2, unless you either died or finished the stage (unless there was a door for that? =o)
@@Russakaja No it doesn't. Forcing players to do something they don't like isn't fun.
@@Russakaja No, it didn't. These games are actually fun because they don't force you with shit that isn't fun to play. Also, your english is terrible, i can hardly understand what you're trying to say.
@@Russakaja i talking about forcing to do unfun things. Hunting down stars, equipment, jiggies is fun. Backtracking 5 times in the same place only to get some bananas that only a specific kong can get is not fun.
It sounds like all the game really needed was the ability to switch Kong through the pause menu instead of at specific check points.
+RynKen Yeah that's what I was thinking. If they had a quick change option instead of having to back track to change, things more than likely would've gone a lot smoother. But, yknow, hardware limitations and all that jazz.
+Demon Lord, Cal (Brandon) Someone else suggested a 5 player co-op mode where each player plays 1 kong, and THAT would be awesome! But speaking of hardware limitations... :P
RynKen yes
Why do people complain about the amount of collectibles? That's my favorite thing about the game.
I think I said specifically that it doesnt really bother me that much, the more the better.
Same here i think that it gives it more value and say if you come back to the game after a while it's going to be harder to remember where it all is.
When people nag about the amount of collectibles, they only do so because collecting them feels like a chore. If they were all fun to collect people wouldn't care how many there are.
The problem is that unlike in games like Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64, Jak and Daxter, and Spyro where they made collecting items fun and motivating. Donkey Kong 64 went way overboard with the process of collecting items. The need to switch Kongs over and over again to get an item was boring and annoying. It made the game repetitive.
I guess so. I found it fun myself as i found it different to a lot of other collecting games.
1. DK64 is a good game.
2. DK64 is blighted by collection tasks to the nth degree.
3. DK64 is bug heaven.
Oh well, I love the game for what it is, even with all it's imperfections.
EDIT: If they remastered DK64 for the Switch/NX with new graphics and with all their knowledge they have now it would be a nice throwback game.
1. He said it was a good game. Listen at the beginning next time.
2. He dismissed that since other games of the same kind had that many too
3. I agree. It's buggy as heck but fun to explore.
bruh the dk rap makes this game pure gold
I'd like to see a remastered DK64 (that does it justice btw)
DK rap remastered
The backtracking was even worse when you consider that not every Kong is available at the beginning of the game. You never get Chunky until Frantic Factory, and suddenly, you have to go back by about 3 worlds to get all his stuff. Anyway, one thing I hated about collectathons in general was how they task you collect all the tiny shit throughout a level, be it coins or bananas or rings or whatever. In previous 2D platforms, this was no big deal. Just collect a hundred of them, and you get an extra life (as well as add to your high score, though that's kinda lost its purpose ever since games went to home consoles). Convenient, but not something you need to do, and in fact, could usually be accomplished in a completely passive manner. But starting from, at the latest, Super Mario 64, this is suddenly mandatory to 100% a game (and in worse cases, mandatory just to complete the game, seeing as you need a certain number of collectibles just to progress). Thankfully, in the case of Mario 64, you just needed 100 coins, which (usually) doesn't equate to practically every coin in a level, but it's still obnoxious as fuck to track them all down (what especially makes these tiny collectibles a pain is that most are right there in plain sight, but then you have to search every nook and cranny in hopes of getting those last few).
Banjo-Kazooie was probably the worst offender; track down 100 notes in a level in a single go, without losing a life. Ugh. I'll gladly take DK64's segmented collectibles over that crap. At least those colored bananas get saved the moment you grab them (well, the game doesn't save automatically, but you get what I mean). Thankfully, Rare seemed to have learned their lesson by the time Banjo-Tooie came out, because that was probably the most well-handled of the N64 collectathons. The tiny collectibles are saved individually AND they give them to you in clusters. Though, I can't say I commend the backtracking that game involved (mainly due to worlds being directly connected to one another), but otherwise, it was pretty good.
Truth be told, platformers were my favorite genre as a kid. But as of the N64 era, while I still enjoyed them, they dropped considerably in how I favored them, and I'm not sure if it was due to this collecting shit they suddenly forced upon them, the really bad camera controls, or a combination of both along with possibly other minor grievances. I guess I could understand WHY they did this; when going from 2D to 3D, worlds become about free exploration, and the goal's no longer as simple as going from point A to point B (though this was still possible; Sonic did it, but Sonic games have had a horrible time in the 3D realm, and they mainly accomplished keeping "reach the goal" the main objective by severely limiting your range of movement anyway). However, in doing this, it feels like they just turned platformers into a poor man's RPGs (RPGs having always allowed free exploration in a.... kinda sorta three-dimensional plane). Ironically, RPGs have since become my genre of choice.
+YamatoFukkatsu Good point about the jump from 2D to 3D, suddenly the meaningless collectibles became necessary. That was the thing with DK64, every thing had to have a purpose, even if it was totally meaningless
Banjo Kazooie Music Notes problem was due N64 memory limitations, they solved that issue in the Xbox remasters.
The sly cooper series is a good example of having different characters to work together.
Underrated series, would love them on the Switch too.
"Why are games these days so linear?!"
"Why do these old games have so much backtracking and options?!"
+James S It has options, but only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation. Fungi Forest was even worse: Oh, you can enter this barn, but only if you have Lanky out, and only if its nighttime (one of like 10 examples in that level). It's not even the backtracking, I seriously didn't really care about that, but the whole game was such a chore because I only did things alone with all the kongs.
+snomaN Gaming
"only if you use a specific kong in a specific situation"
Do you realise that this is as asinine as saying "Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations" or "Zelda Oracle of Seasons is bad because you have to switch between the seasons to progress through the game- I want to complete the whole game just on Summer!"
The notion that it's bad that you need to do particular things with particular Kongs is so bizarre that, honestly, it barely qualifies as a criticism.
If you don't like the game because of various things, that's fine, I'm not going to tell you what to like or dislike, just don't refer to it as a 'game design flaw'.
James S I'm sorry is this your video?
randomguy6679 He perfectly stated out what many ppl here were thinking. Those objectives and options are NOT a bad game design. I could accept that you count the camera from dk64 as bad design but it was their first 3D game and for that they did an awesome job. It has many collectibles but it offers such a huge variety. Having to visit the places repeatedly with different Kongs is pretty unique and a brave step into new video game design atleast when the game came out. He was simply bragging about little things which may be a little annoying but he stated that as bad game design which is absolutely not correct.
"Zelda games are bad because you have to use particular items in particular situations"
Well at least you never had to run back the the start of every dungeon, enter a room, and select a small list of items to use. LoZ games have every item right at your disposal, so that argument is not relevant.
Besides, he's not saying the game is bad. At the START OF THE VIDEO, he said that it was still a GOOD game.
Am I the only one who listens fully anymore?
Please do more -Good- BAD game design
I thought you were going to say like really bad reasons but you didn’t well done dude
You beat this game 101%? Mad respect man, i never could make it past those damn minigames and the Fungi Forest boss!
In the past I'm sure i would've tried to reach 101% but lately i can't be bothered to achieve/explore everything. Just go as fast to the end and move to the next haha
I need to 100% a game. I guess it's a form of ocd lol
Yeah I had a lot of free time as a kid :P
Matt Sciore
yes
So did I however just could not for the life of me beat some of them bosses and mini games! anyways great video, keep up the great work!
Good Game Design - Banjo Kazooie
+Wahaller YES - and DK64 is just a rip off of it. It feels like they just churned it out because people expected them to make a 3D DK game at some point, and filled it with a lot of collectables and backtracking for lastability instead of gameplay.
Bad Game Design Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts.
and tooie
Well to be fair BK:N&B had pretty good design, but it was still the wrong game.
Think about Link's Crossbow Training. It was a short but fun game, but nobody complained about it because it was just a spin-off. If Link's Crossbow Training was released INSTEAD of Twilight Princess and was the only Zelda game released for a few years, then people would genuinely hate it. It's all about player choice, if the player can't chose to play a standard game, they're gonna be displeased.
Jackson Percy It's very sad. You can see beautiful open environments in BK:N&B like it was made to explore - and it was. But they changed it to vehicle creation halfway through. Even the teaser announcement video suggested it was going to be an adventure game. Apparently MS said that collectable games were getting boring so the team had to do something new and different.
whats funny is that these issues could all be fixed if you could just swap kongs on the fly
They did that in Kameo, but it was a terrible game.
That would make it too easy and far quicker to play, I don't like it. I'm just fine with the tag barrels as they are. I always liked the anticipation of returning to an area you saw earlier with the correct Kong to see what it would reveal next.
Two problems, firstly a lot of the challenges are almost like QTEs that are programmed to a very specific Kong, and secondly it seems pointless to constantly switch between Kongs just to get a certain color of banana or coin, they should let any Kong grab any thing regardless of color.
HE HAS NO FACE
HE HAS NO SOUL
IF IF IF
YOU CROSS HIM
HE’LL TAKE YA *TO HELL*
Donkey Kong is Hannibal Lecter, he wants your face.
The decayed app
Do another one of these i loved it!!!
+Tyke There will almost certainly be another one someday :)
+snomaN Gaming yay!!!
+snomaN Gaming bubsy 3d would be a good candidate for a video like this.
+snowmaN Gaming
i just saw this and loved it
I'm kind of surprised all this multiple collectables bullshit didn't annoy me as a kid.
Here's a solution. Make it so that you can change characters on the fly with a push of a button instead of having to backtrack to a barrel.
That would help with tedium, but it wouldn't solve the segmentation. Someone suggested 5 player co-op where you each play a different kong! haha!
Dunkey thinks that too
You do not have to collect all the collectibles, but for people who want to collect everything they just added a little extra replay ability for completionist by having to do each level on each character.
Only reason I never beat this game was because of Donkey Kong Arcade...
+griffin324 It still gives me nightmares
.
***** Yeah it was still horrifying lol
+griffin324 Lol i'm glad i'm not the only one.
+griffin324 improve your skills
the big problem with DK64 was it's short dev time of 17 months, if you watch a speed run of the game you learn that things like walls are a mere suggestion for this game.
bro , that's not just dk 64, pretty much every n64 game is fucking busted.
oh, I know, believe me I know, It's just that DK64 is especially bad.
Therefore always preferred Banjo-Kazooie.
+trcsonic Truly an amazing game
+nazno Is it better than Majora's Mask?
+trcsonic One level from Banjo-Kazooie went to Donkey Kong 64. Guess what it was.
JamesDavy2009 Fungi Forest?
Imad Mohamed
Bingo. I would have also accepted Fungus Forest as that was the original name for the level.
God the music is amazing in this game
3 words:
MOVING
ICE
PATH
big gay mip
Play the DK bongos as soon as you enter that room, and the path won't move. Best glitch ever!
Two words
coconut gun
why is your name big gay?
The best design about this game is the DK rap.
+Lizard_Buttock You're not wrong, I absolutely agree :)
It's been almost two years since this came out, and you still haven't made another "Bad Game Design".
Interesting...
WHAT? NOOOOO! I'M NEW TO THE CHANNEL SO I WOULDN'T KNOW!! D':
There aren't any other games bad enough to make a video about! Eyyyyyyyyyy
(I love DK64 haha)
@Nick Miller what about Turok 2 n64 version?
I wish this had gotten a sequel
@Terry Mitchell All I'd really wsnt from a sequel is maybe coop and fine tune the controls. I recently replayed dk 64 and its hard to do some challenges because the controls are janky
Sir, I must defend this game on the basis of Lanky Kong. I understand he lacks both style and grace. Some even say he has a funny face. But he can handstand when he needs to, and stretches his arms out just for you. Additionally, he inflates himself similarly to the Hindenburg. Most importantly, however, this kong just digs this tune.
And let's not forget, the Kong who's here for you, the last member of the DK crew, the Kong's so strong, it isn't funny, he makes bigger kremlins cry out for mummy! He picks up boulders, with relative ease, makes crushing rocks seem such a breeze, he may move slow, he can't jump high, but Chunky Kong's, one FUCK of a guy!
DK!!!! Donkey Kong!!
Being objective about a beloved game in a beloved franchise?
HOW DARE YOU SIR I WILL SEE YOU HANGED FOR THIS HERESY
What
calm the fuck down
He was being sarcastic good grief lol
0:31
Here’s a “Hey before you hate me I actually like this game”
Quote
They were joking
God....
DK64 takes everything I dislike about "collect-a-thon" games and cranks it to 11. There are all kinds of games I enjoy that feature collecting things, exploring, and trying to find as many secrets as possible -- but it's all in how you integrate it. You have to make the player WANT to do it. Make them think it's THEIR idea. Either make it entirely optional, to unlock bonuses, or give them an advantage -- like a new weapon in an out-of-the-way treasure box, or increased missile capacity.
For those times where you must block off progression, make it feel organic. Give a story reason why you need to talk to somebody or locate a hidden item. Present them with a practical obstacle, like a wide gap, that you need the double-jump boots to make it over. And if you're going to force the player to bring a specific character in order to pass through, then it had better be because that character has a unique and innate ability which provides the solution.
Hell, you can even have a literal pad or floor tile, that requires great strength to slam down and activate it. You can have something like the Hammer in Zelda, that lets you smash it down -- or even have a big, heavy character who is needed to stomp on it. It's a little artificial, but can work if it's not overused. But for crap's sake, don't have floor tiles that may only be stomped down by certain characters, simply because their FACE is painted on it. How does that make any sense at all!? At LEAST dress it up so that it SEEMS different, on a superficial level. Tell us they're "hacking a computer" or "picking a lock" or something. Don't just say "This is the little girl tile. Only little girls can stomp on this tile."
Remember Little Nemo: The Dream Master? It was heavily based around exploring every inch of the levels, literally to find a bunch of keys to open a door. Actually sounds kind of lame, on paper. But it worked, because there were only a handful of keys, not hundreds. And you needed specific animal helpers in order to get to certain places, but for reasons that made sense -- as a bee, you could fly high, as a salamander you could climb walls, and as a mole you could dig through the earth. You don't ever get to a door with a salamander's face on it, that says "Only a salamander is allowed to come through here." And when you get to a key, you can always pick it up -- it's not like you ever find a yellow key that only takes corporeal form when touched by a bee.
"Dam what this hater about"
"Oh wait yeah, I hated all that shit to no ends"
What
I'm currently replaying DK 64 and I too used to get frustrated and overwhelmed by how much each character had to do. I used to switch characters every few minutes when I saw something another character had to pick up or do. This go around, I take it one character at a time. Do everything Donkey has to do in a level, then switch to Diddy, etc. Sometime characters do have to hit switches, open doors, etc. for each other, but even then, I'm careful not to get side-tracked. Once I got this "system" down, it's not so bad.
BUT BUT BUT Donkey Kong 64 was my CHILDHOOD! Why would you insult my CHILDHOOD? It was my CHILDHOOD and now you wrecked my CHILDHOOD with this video about my CHILDHOOD... Great vid buddy
Your Childhood got Roasted by SnomaN
+CrayTrey IM SORRY TREY FORGIVE ME
I was so worried this would be a rant against a game I loved as a kid. I'm glad it's such an incredibly thoughtful, perspective video.
Awesome job! I love it.
+pizzadudemanguy Thanks! I tried to be very constructive, I know a lot of people really like it
+pizzadudemanguy Yeah I was worried too, great video.
Almost every problem you mentioned would be solved by adding the ability to switch Kongs anywhere, instead of having to find a tag barrel. You know, like you could do in all three previous games.
TBH I would love love love a sequel to this game.
I honestly would too, I think they could make it so much better!
more of a spiritual sequel to banjo-kazooie/tooie, but keep an eye out for yooka-laylee. devs include former rare employees and it's coming out on all platforms! looks very promising so far.
Fantastic, very reasonably constructive criticism!
I just picked this game up again after ten years, and I definitely hate having to run back and forth in between the Kong barrel and 15 different bananas of different colors over and over again, but I really do love it. It's dope af.
Dislikes you got on this video are undeserved, but i'd like to offer a counterpoint. Making levels that can be traversed with any character leads to either characters that are too similar, or level designs that are very vague, flat, trivial and samey. Now you could have the same goals and alternative paths depending on character abilities, but then you're running against hardware limitations.
Siana Gearz How about dividing the levels into segments one for each kong as oppose to having to go back and switch character four fucking times in the same tunnel.
This has been done before, there's no design or technological limitations here.
Well, here's a thought. If the five or six characters are going to feel samey, if you give them alternative ways to do the same thing... why not improve the level, and drop the extra characters?
The DKC trilogy consists entirely of levels that can be traversed with any of their characters (in fairness, each of those games only has two characters), and those were fine.
You could simply remove all the colour-coding, without changing anything else, so that anyone can collect any item or hit any switch they can reach, and any could use a magic barrel or pad to trigger their personal power. That wouldn't make the characters any more samey, or the levels any flatter.
This also turns challenge areas into (mostly still pretty easy) puzzles for free: rather than "Here's a Diddy pad; clearly I have to use Diddy's pad power here," it becomes "Which pad power will solve this challenge?" Puzzles might naturally have multiple solutions, like a hazardous obstacle course where you can either blitz with invincibility, fly over, shrink to take a shortcut, sprint, or brute force through. Or they might not, so every Kong gets a little screen time, but they earn it by being useful, not by having a button with their face on it.
Except maybe the instrument switches in part; like waking up the llama with a triangle that puts people to sleep? Not likely.
The others could do it, but still.
To be honest, playing as 5 different characters puts up a lot of competition among them. I feel you should be able to play as one of the five and bring another as a partner whenever you switch, that way you can have a CPU help you along and you can instantly switch controls to them if you need it. This also might allow for duo boss fights, and optimizing routes through a level that isn't so segmented.
Holy shit... you just gave me PTSD flashbacks to Beaver Bother, something I'd completely forgotten about.
We don't talk about Beaver Bother for a good reason.
Not a bad game, but it has a lot of frustrating and terrible flaws that could have been improved
Finally, he's here for you
It's the last member of the DK crew
He has no pulse
And no heart rate
THIS KONG is in a better place
plz do more like these, i highly enjoyed the video and editing, you focused on the facts and argument, gave a counter-argument, and didn;t use cringey humor, subscribed off this video, good job.
TL;DW Multi-colored items requiring specific kongs to pick them up requires a lot of back-tracking and is annoying.
I appreciate that you put the caveat of actually enjoying it yourself. Thanks for a balanced review. I personally loved it because it was another 3-D platformer with tons of stuff to collect, a good amount of characters with different abilities that help you explore levels further when you revisit them.
But yeah, I tried playing it only a few years ago as an adult, and I couldn't get into it the way I was as a kid. Not sure why, and I'd have to think about the points you made to see they might be why. Maybe I'll update this comment if I ever remember why it just didn't resonate me later on in life.
Love the game to bits, wish there were more games like this with better execution, and great memories with it, but I'll leave it in the past. I remember the day I tried a demo of it at a movie theater, and then finally getting it and playing the shit out of it. It was a worthwhile experience for my childhood and will cherish it forever.
Here are fingers crossed for Yookalele being an awesome improvement!
I'd like to add that THE SIMPSONS game did what you suggested, in terms of characters complimenting each other through completing different tasks for each other throughout levels. I loved that about it!
Donkey Kong said trans rights
I support trans rights
yes
Actually.... Yes
@streyar *gasp*
Bidane Martinez-Huerta gross
I've been 101% completing this for past 2 months. Playing randomly when I get the time. I've been playing this game since it came out, and this is the first time I've attempted to complete the game on my own without any help and I gotta tell you, it's frustrating at certain parts. I completely agree with you on the banana barrels. Beaver Bother is the worst. The tedious trying over and over again to get certain collectibles is frustrating. I don't mind the smaller collectibles as it makes it fun to explore the level with each Kong's abilities. But the Coins and Barrels... just too draining...
I did the same thing a few years ago.
fungi forest should be called fuckboy forest
i beat this game 101% as well and beaver bother is the worst lol
Joey Bonzo. Lol
I sucked at Beaver Bother but I 101% completed the game over a dozen times I got a lot better. Pretty much don't scare the beaver until you run pass it then it'll guarantee go in
Also Lankys rematch with the Rabbit was near impossible until I found out a secret on defeating him
Seems like everything he complains about is part of the reason why i loved this game.
Except for the camera angles.
Fuck those camera angles.
+Jackson Percy You know you can just press and hold R (on an N64 controller) to re-center the camera behind the player character's back. Unless the camera icon is on the corner of the screen, that is.
The level with squaks was weird cause sometimes he would flash the light in the wrong direction. This forced you to find the path in darkness 8:20
Falling wasn't so bad since it places you at the cabin door but it was a nightmare to no death speed running.
Same here, the one thing I do not like about this game is Beaver Bother.
Blade1301 Beaver Bother is the bane of my existence.
HE
HAS
julia
NO
+Nixitur BANANAS
+Christoffer113 INFLATES
+Nacho Romero PERIOD.
What is it with Rare and making lairs be the Protagonist / Antagonist’s head?
Banjo Kazooie doesnt do that
@@uraveragehomophobicdude2643 Gruntilda's Lair is Grunty's head.
This is why the Banjo games were much better.
that's crazy
yeah...they are basicly the same game....except if banjo made yoy back track 5 times to get the music notes over again
Doug Skotnitsky
On the surface, they're very similar. However the Banjo games were far more polished and the worlds and music were more creative.
In Banjo Tooie in particular, they didn't keep recycling the same mini games or bosses (except for the FPS mini games, but at least there was some differences each time). Splitting up Banjo and Kazooie to solve different puzzles or access different areas also didn't feel like mindless busywork.
The Banjo games focused on quality whereas DK64 focused on quantity. Just put more stuff in the game and that'll keep the kids happy!
One other thing I find funny is that some of the worlds in DK64 feel smaller than their Banjo counterparts, even though this game is supposed to be bigger. I noticed there are an abundance of hallways that lead to a lot of medium sized areas. Angry Aztec and Fungi Forest are perfect examples of what I'm talking about.
+Larry Lopez i like both games
DK64 and Banjo
+Doug Skotnitsky I agree that the Banjo games are a bit more precise and memorable, but the notes resetting when you die definitely was a big problem, glad they fixed it in the Xbox version
Please make more of these, they are both helpful, and interesting. As someone who wants to make games in the future this is one great resource that I can use to make different choices in what I plan to create. Thanks!
Lots more in the works :) Thank you!
I think all of this could be solved by getting rid of the tag barrel and instead switching kongs with the d pad or something. That way you could switch easily and maintain the connectivity and flow of game instead of having to run back to a tag barrel each time
I always heard that the backtracking was awful in DK64 so I never played it until I got bored one day and decided to give it a shot and to be honest it's not that bad I agree it can be annoying but there's a certain rhythm to it that I find really enjoyable and the DK arcade cabinet really wasn't that bad it wasn't mandatory to beat and was a pretty fun challenge in my opinion after having to play it over and over again I can now say that I'm really good at the original Donkey Kong
It's fine but if you're expecting Banjo Kazooie you're going to be slightly disappointed.
I used to play this a lot as a kid, but I never was able to progress very far or unlock anything. I made my parents drive me to blockbuster to go get the strategy guide, but even with the walkthrough guidebook I wasn't able to figure out where to go or what to do. I ended up just wandering around in the game all the time because I didn't know what my objective was supposed to be. I would always get frustrated with the clumsy movement and camera angles and end up quitting and playing super Mario 64 instead
I'm not sure how you get Banjo Kazooie to have 13 types of collectibles.. I'm only counting 5 or 6...
Banjo Tooie has Notes, Jiggies, 2 kinds of feathers, 5 kinds of eggs, Jinjos, Glowbos, Cheato pages, Honeycombs, and Game packs. Kazooie has less, but I didn't mention Kazooie
I don't really count feathers and eggs as collectibles since they don't count towards progress, but fair enough.
You do you!
Yeah, it certainly is debatable, but no doubt DK64 has the most in sheer NUMBER of collectibles, something like 3500 bananas!
yeah, and even if you just count the types of collectibles you have to multiply that number by the amount of kongs for most of them so it becomes a huge number!
I would definitely separate power-ups from what the game expects you to actually collect.
For example, DKC3 had banana birds, bonus coins, and DK coins. I wouldn't count bananas, the green bananas or stars within the bonus stages, the bear coins, the extra lives... That just seems like padding of the actual number. I'm not even sure how you got up to 15 for DKC3.
Don't feel bad about doing a bad game design video. Learning about bad game design is as important as learning about good game design.
+sayedstafa ^ This.
+sayedstafa That was kinda my thought too going into it. I want to be a well-rounded analysis guy, not just look at the good stuff :)
snomaN Gaming That's a good way to do it. I have my own podcast that I do, this month was "game design month" for me. A few weeks ago, during a discussion on boss battles and game design, we started talking about a game called "One" for the Playstation, and I ended up recommending looking at that game only to learn the bad game design choices that were made in that game. When you have a good understanding on why a game design concept is bad, then you can learn from that and avoid making the same mistakes.
Yeah thats awesome :)
Personally I think having stuff for certain kongs is a good thing in terms of having their own custom designed section or even boss fights. They just went too far with bananas and coins.
They should just have allowed the player to choose between Kongs whenever they want and it would've been the perfect game
i really enjoy this game as it was designed, only problem for me was the camera which in some parts was ackward and the arcade games which were really hard, too much in my opinion.
that has to do with the 64
Not sure if you meant to include this with your statement, but the 64 controller really did make Jet Pack and Donkey Kong harder to play.
yoxter 3423 only problem for me was bosses. Too long and hard.
Just a note;
You can love something and also butcher it with critisism.
I love Legend of Zelda OOT, but I see all the flaws it has and is ready to get my saw to show them.
He have no style
He have no grace
This kong have funny face
+pikaarceus He can handstand when he needs to
I feel like the segmentation and backtracking is what I love about the game, but that may be because my playstyle is stick to a kong in a level until running out of things to do with them then switching, so I never felt franticly needing to constantly tag barrel.
I do wish It used the animal buddies more though.
This is the intended way to play. I really dont see why most people just dont understand this. youre not meant to change every single time you see a different colored banana. youre supposed to remember where they are for later. It always felt good when you remembered where certain things were with certain kongs after a few hours. It tested your memory and spatial awareness.
"Donkey Kong 64 was all about making things bigger."
I shan't be specific, but I'm sure you know which meme makes that line very unfortunate ;)
Expand Dong
2:40 It becomes MUCH worse if you try to play it on Virtual Console. Without having C BUTTONS to work and using a C stick, the camera controls are way more annoying than the original version.
+GamerOfFate That must've been why it was so frustrating for me. I kept zooming into 1st person view, or playing my musical instrument when I'm just trying to pull out my gun. I was getting so mad lol! Yeah the VC version is not great
Pffft. What a bunch of lies. The DK Rap made this game better then every game ever.
+Mushroom3D The DK Rap was the best thing to come out of this game by far :P lol
how do you beat beaver bother?
AOC do you know how to turn on the power in frantic factory in DK64
AOC do you know that printing more money increases inflation and that it is impossible to fix every single building in the us
@@beiwubsnsod7378 Wait what
@@awah4676 lmao
As Klaptrap, snap your jaws at that retarded beavers and avoid the pit at all cost by leaping over it. If you scare the stupid beavers at the right time, you'll scare them stupid to where they run into the pit all by themselves. You don't have to constantly be chasing them. Still annoying asf since you're TIMED.
Lol I felt pure anger and hatred from childhood 15 years ago when I saw beaver bother in this video. SERIOUSLY F uck that barrel bonus stage!!! 😫😡🤬