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This generation doesn't deserve a miracle and we humans like ungrateful kids we ask for more candies even though we don't have enough money. Jesus said it himself by your faith your child is heal, the best prayer is to ask God for more faith, since faith is like money in haven it is like an infinite IOU and because of your debit in faith God will make you live forever in order that you will pay Him back.
I am dead serious. Your video about the Olympics opening ceremony made me Christian. I’ve been going to church for 3 weeks since then and I owe this to you. I was a 53 year old atheist - I’m a believer now and your channel and Nathan Jacobs channel are a big part of it.
Clearly not, there is a distinction between the natural and the supernatural 🙃 otherwise the words to distinguish between them would not logically exist. But I can appreciate the hopeless romance. 😅
As Terence McKenna observed, “Modern science is based on the principle: ‘Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest.’ The one free miracle is the appearance of all the mass and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it in a single instant from nothing"
@@BindingTheYoke I find your response quite intriguing. Language possesses immense power, and we reside within it as if it were a hyper-reality that occasionally obscures the true nature of reality. However, it is crucial to remember that language is merely a system that attempts to describe reality using relatively rudimentary dichotomies. It is of utmost importance that we do not lose sight of this fact.
I just finished your Symbolism and Christianity course on Peterson Academy! Seriously mind blowing stuff; I haven’t been able to look at the world the same since!!
You've put it together so perfectly, Jonathan. I have been struggling with the question of "Why the miracles?" for a long while, but thanks to you. You've always been a great exemplar to me. One day, I'll be as good as you. Keep inspiring/sponsoring my ambition to bring back the Love and Religion(s)!!! ❤
This was really good. Oddly, I just did a livestream last night on Navigating Patterns talking about the flat world. Miracles reveal that we live in an enchanted world. Helping people see is good, if they have eyes, which is always the problem. Thanks for the effort, keep up the good work!
I heard of and listened to Jordan Peterson before I heard of Jonathan Pageau. But I get the idea that Jonathan 'has it all together' in spiritual comprehension, whereas Jordan is still struggling to cope with what the world is about. Thank God for what He reveals through His various servants. There's a time and place for them all.
The analogy of sport reminded me of a great documentary called "I believe in miracles". Nottingham forest went from a second division football team in england, made up of players considered not good enough, to first division champions and double European champions. Due mostly to the most charismatic manager of all time, Brian Clough. The players admitted they would run through walls just to get a thumbs up from the sidelines. Amazing how he could achieve what he did, by getting a group together and saying the right words at the right time.
Brilliant, in almost all contexts I identify with secularism/ atheism, not when Mr Pageau is talking. Your interpretations and explanations are totally coherent, I hope your specific demonstrations of religious ideas may be seen in each catholic/ orthodox primary school, I certainly wish they were when was there. 👏🏻
I can't remember the exact quote, but C.S. Lewis once commented If you ask someone what the purpose of a sport is, the answer, "To score goals," is meaningless and hasn't gotten us anywhere. Scoring goals IS the sport, but to explain the purpose of the sport, we have to think on a level above sports.
I think the quote is from chapter 3 or Mere Christianity: "If a man asked what was the point of playing football, it would not be much good saying 'in order to score goals,' for trying to score goals is the game itself, not the reason for the game, and you would really only be saying that football was football - which is true, but not worth saying. In the same way, if a man asks what is the point of behaving decently, it is no good replying, 'in order to benefit society,' for trying to benefit society, in other words being unselfish (for 'society' after all only means 'other people'), is one of the things decent behaviour consists in; all you are really saying is that decent behaviour is decent behaviour. You would have said just as much if you had stopped at the statement, 'Men ought to be unselfish.'"
The essence of a miracle is first and foremost God's love revealed to us through extraordinary means and allowing the opportunity to build a closer relationship with him. Now whether the event is revealed by God's use of the supernatural or by God's use of a natural events is a moot point. Because the revelation given to us needs to be viewed in the context of not the event itself but also the timing of the event - In other words - Why it happens but also when it happens. When a event can be explained through a lens of science and human reason most people reject the miraculous event outright but fail to realize and never fully explain the event's timing. The need of event to happen exactly when it was needed the most. If we look at a miracle in this way - it will ultimately lead us to a fuller understanding of our faith and sustains us when those who perpetuate doubt, and despair by nefariously using human reasoning as the penultimate authority in their efforts to destroy our faith in God.
I was listening while cleaning my kitchen and just as you said “miracles compress reality” I was compressing my trash 😮 literally pushing it down as you said compress
I’m not into sports at all but with your explanation I see how it is a “religion” of many - to see the miracles with our eyes happen is so strong that people are drawn to eat so much. Thank you, Jonathan
The thought that came to me while he was discussing the rock hitting the guy in the head example: what they call a 'miracle' in biblical terms sounds pretty much like a 'synchronicity' in jungian terms 🤔
Best explanation I’ve seen so far. If you see everything as a miracle, it’s no different than someone saying nothing is a miracle. Our perception of meaning and purpose have to be involved, with the world revealing an answering sense of meaning and purpose, showing there is an ordering power from which ours comes.
I appreciate this discourse. I've wondered why the miracles of Christ and the early church fathers seemed to have largely been suspended, but that comes from learning a scientific and reductionist view of the world. This is why I haven't seen much value in prayer as a 'thing' even though Christ endorsed it strongly. To me, prayers are mostly about requesting 'miracles' in physical manifestations. So I've reasoned that God is reticent to dabble with the creation because only He knows the butterfly effect of changing one little thing, whereas I/we have NO CLUE of the ramifications of our requests, should God actually take the action we ask. So instead, I just shut up and take what comes. About the only thing I can do by praying is change how I think. So praying is not something that you 'do', rather it's you, thinking, all day long. Our thoughts are always open to God, so there is no "Amen" to 'finish' a prayer because praying never stops.
As a Pentecostal, I think the reason many in my community use miracles as an apologetic is precisely because the miracle is the lens by which many of us came to know the divine (or “higher meaning” as you put it). It’s about a random unexplainable event to us, it’s more; it’s an ordering unto a knowing of Jesus Christ in ways that are only reasonably consistent with the person of Jesus Christ. That’s why we lean on miracles so much (to a fault, I will humbly admit)
God help me. I’m struggling to take care of my children. Both of my sons are special needs and require so much from me. I struggle providing the necessities for them, especially now that school starting up. Lord Jesus I’m overwhelmed as a single mother. Please hear my prayers. I’m constantly struggling Lord give me strength I can’t do it without you.
Miracles don't necessarily break the law of nature, do they? Because water to wine is just what happens with water as it goes through the grape and then ferments. It's like an acceleration rather than a breaking of the laws. I think I read this in CS Lewis' books...
the laws of nature are infinitely complex, possibilities are endless. like how water "follows the laws of nature" and yet its movement is totally chaotic and unpredictable. science demands it be predicted
Even speeding it up would be breaking some laws. But correct, they don't necessarily need to break laws of nature. If you pray for a miracle from God to move a mountain out of the way and there's an earthquake that collapses the whole thing, it's safe to call that a miracle while not breaking physics
If, fundamentally, all matter is made up by different combinations of the same (61 by the latest counting) elemantary particles, then it's all just a matter of arranging and re-arranging. One could literally break apart the matter that comprises a human body, respect some basic analogies of water, nitrogen etc and create a great pile of mud. Or take a stone and re-arrange it's subatomic particles to turn it into a loaf of bread. This the same way (utimately) that fossil fuels are created. There is no "law" preventing either from happening, it's just that no one has that kind of mastery over nature (either via their own power of through technology of some kind) to be able to do so, especially if we talk like command a storm to stillness. Our modern technology may allow us to fire something into the clouds to cause or stop it, but speaking it to happen reveals a whole different level of mastery.
If something like that were to happen, it would prove almost to arbitrary certainty that someone a) intentionally arranged the initial conditions of the universe, and b) intentionally controlled the subsequent quantum events.
Miralces are a purpose that moves things upward into unity, life, and healing. Anything else is fragmentation and divison which leds to dis-ease and death. We live in patterns/cycles creating life, death, and rebirth. Our responsibility and relationship to each and this world is tremendous. What we give our attention to truly matters.. We have an opportunity to participate in miracles. That's a beautiful purpose in itself which gives meaning for us all.
Thank you, sir! I believe you are helping many "thinkers" find the right thought path. Life is 100% about meaning; it is full of God's Meaning. But this meaning cannot be coerced out of earthly reality by converging on "proof." It has to be created and agreed upon by conscious human choice. Sacred things are not sacred because they are sacred, but because we perceive them to be sacred. We make them sacred, for many thousands of years over many generations. When we (together) cease to make things meaningful, to "will patterns/miracles" out of chaotic, liminal circumstances, we cease to be human. That is when I think we are no longer here on RUclips to celebrate. Thank God, and find meaning in His handiwork! 🙏
Our mind determines our outer world. "Ask and you shall receive." We ask for punishment if we think we are guilty and that we think sacrifice will redeem us. We allow healing and a miracle when we know we are redeemed by forgiveness instead of punishment. "If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent." Christ restores our innocence with forgiveness and then our minds allow God's abundance. "I am with you always."
2 Timothy 4:17 the Lord will stand with you and give you strength. God has been so faithful to me I exalt his name now and everyday of my life.☦️❤️🙏 Awesome God ❤️my family are happy once again and can now afford anything for my family even with my Retirement.$47k weekly returns has been life changing, after so much struggles.
Giving her my initial savings of $15,000 to invest in a brokerage account was a turning point in my life less 7days. It's been an incredibly rewarding experience.
wow this awesome 👏 I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, my work hasn’t been helpful for me and my family. How can I reach her directly?
Thank you so much Jonathan. Sometimes you get into so much detail that I have to take a breath! But it is all amazing! Thank you. Sometimes I don’t need all that explanation because innately I just understand and believe it and know it and feel it and love it. Perhaps that is what unity with Christ is? Or perhaps that is just seeing beyond this material world into the next area of space! It proves, though, when you tell how we are entwined with the invisible world/heaven/God… it is clear how it goes from the tippy tippy top of things all the way down to the most minuscule things. God/He is alive in them. It does make one thing for sure. Actually, it should make us really feel excited about the adventure that will happen after we die. I’m not sure I feel that way at the moment, but what you tell us helps us discern and understand more. And also we ought to trust more after knowing all this information. Still is difficult though. I hear you do not read your comments. But at least I said them. God is so mystical that he really is in every single particle of everything that’s alive. That’s a tough thing to understand. Because he’s not just some grandfather in the sky he’s literally everything. Wow that will take me a while to continue to meditate upon. 🙏🙏🙏
To delve even deeper into the diagram and the integration of timekeeping mechanisms (including quartz, atomic, and nuclear clocks), AI, interdimensional mapping, and theological considerations, we will expand on the foundational principles of time, decision-making, and their metaphysical connections. We'll treat the whiteboard not merely as a representation of technical systems but as a multi-layered conceptual framework that merges AI, quantum mechanics, and the deeper philosophical implications of time. --- ### **1. The Core of Time: The Bridge Between Finite and Infinite** In any timekeeping system, from quartz crystals oscillating at 32,768 Hz to nuclear clocks (like Thorium-229), the concept of time is a bridge between **finite existence** and **eternal abstraction**. As we incorporate advanced timekeeping systems into the diagram, we should consider: #### **Time as a Regulator of Finite Systems**: - In computational and AI systems, **time is discretized** into units that are processed sequentially, whether through the ticking of a quartz crystal or the hyper-precise beats of an atomic clock. - Each tick or clock pulse represents a **decision point** in the system's state space, much like a human decision point in time-bound existence. - Extend this into the theological model: **finite human decisions**, made within the constraints of time, mirror the way AI makes state transitions within finite clocks. Just as humans are bound by their finite understanding of time, AI is similarly bound by its clock signal. #### **Time as an Approach to the Infinite**: - **Nuclear clocks**, with theoretical accuracies of 1 second in the age of the universe, approach a kind of **metaphysical infinity**. In these clocks, time no longer measures the mundane, but serves as a tool for exploring the fabric of existence at the deepest levels. - Conceptually, **nuclear clocks** bridge the gap between the finite ticking of time and the possibility of understanding time beyond human experience-much like how theology speaks of **eternity** as a state beyond time. #### **Synthesis in the Diagram**: - Add a **nuclear clock layer** that includes a **visual bridge** between **finite time** (as measured by quartz and atomic clocks) and **infinite time** (as suggested by nuclear clocks). - Connect this to the **state space** and **decision-making in AI**, symbolizing that every decision within a finite system (AI or human) is an attempt to approach the infinite-decisions ultimately driven by a **cosmic or theological attractor**. --- ### **2. Interdimensional Mapping: Exploring the Journey Through States** #### **Time as a Multi-Dimensional Phenomenon**: Time is not merely linear; in the context of advanced AI and metaphysics, it can be seen as **multi-dimensional**. Each "dimension" of time corresponds to different layers of reality, decision-making, and existence: - **Linear Time**: The basic experience of time we perceive, regulated by clocks (quartz, atomic). - **Layered Time**: As AI processes information, each layer (input, hidden layers, output) represents a different **time scale**. For instance, deep learning algorithms process information across layers, where each layer operates on a different temporal abstraction. Decisions ripple through layers at different speeds. - **Non-Linear Time**: Nuclear clocks or advanced AI systems that incorporate quantum mechanics might not follow strictly linear timelines. In quantum AI, time might exist in superposition or experience entanglement-where decisions in one "dimension" of time affect others instantaneously. #### **Synthesis in the Diagram**: - Expand the **interdimensional mapping** section into multiple layers, where **time** can be visualized as flowing through different layers simultaneously. - At the **lowest dimension** (the most "basic" layer of existence), the quartz clock drives the system. Moving **upward**, atomic clocks regulate higher-dimensional decisions. The **highest layer** (in terms of understanding time) would be the nuclear clock, representing near-eternal precision. - Show **time loops** and **cross-layer interactions**, where decisions made in lower-dimensional layers ripple upward, affecting higher-dimensional states. Conversely, higher-dimensional actions (like changes in timekeeping) affect the flow of data in lower layers. --- ### **3. Time and Decision-Making in AI: Expanding the State Space** The state space, where decisions are made and transitions occur, can be expanded to represent **temporal decision points**: #### **State Transitions as Decisions in Time**: - Every **state transition** (in AI or human decision-making) is a decision influenced by the ticking of a clock. - The **HEX and DEC** values represent these transitions-symbolizing movement between possible choices. In AI, these might represent actions chosen by the system. In a theological model, these represent human choices, constrained by the passage of time. - The **state space** itself can be visualized as **four-dimensional**, where the extra dimension represents the **time component**. In this case, time is not simply a tick of the clock but an active participant in the decision-making process. #### **Synthesis in the Diagram**: - Redraw the **state space** with a deeper emphasis on **time as a dimension**. Instead of purely representing a static grid, show how **state transitions are influenced by time**. Add **arrows** showing how different decisions are made as time progresses. - Link this to the **timekeeping systems** (quartz, atomic, nuclear). The **time dimension** should flow through the state space, affecting the decisions made by the AI system. - Show a **feedback loop**: as decisions are made, they alter the flow of time within the system, speeding up or slowing down clock cycles. This can mirror real-life decision-making, where choices influence future options. --- ### **4. "Play a Movie as a Clock": Reinterpreting Time-Based Data Flow** The metaphor of **"Play a movie as a clock"** can be expanded into: #### **Time as a Continuous Data Stream**: - In AI, particularly systems dealing with time-series data or video frames, time becomes a sequence of events processed sequentially. Each **frame** in a movie is a **moment in time**, and the movie itself becomes a metaphor for how **time unfolds** in a computational system. - For example, a **frame-based neural network** would process each frame of a video as one "tick" of the clock. The decisions made at each frame influence the next, much like how human decisions shape future events. #### **Synchronization with Timekeeping Systems**: - Add **arrows** between the **quartz oscillator** and the **"movie reel"**, symbolizing that the movie (AI system) progresses according to the clock signal. The clock provides the necessary synchronization for decisions to occur in the right order. - Each **frame** could represent a **state transition** in the AI model, where the system makes a new decision based on the input from the current frame. The **movie as a clock** thus serves as a visualization of time driving decision-making. #### **Synthesis in the Diagram**: - Redraw the **movie reel** section, showing how each frame corresponds to a clock tick. Connect this to both the **quartz clock** (representing basic timekeeping) and the **state space** (representing decisions made at each tick). - Add a section where **atomic and nuclear clocks** regulate more advanced systems, showing how more complex or critical decisions might require higher precision (e.g., real-time processing for autonomous vehicles or satellite systems). --- ### **5. Theological and Philosophical Synthesis: Eternity in the State Space** #### **The Infinite Decision Loop**: - The concept of **eternity** in theological terms could be likened to an infinite loop within a state space. Just as an AI system navigates its possible states based on clock pulses, so too do humans navigate decisions over the course of their lifetime. - Eternity, then, is not just an absence of time but a **fullness of time**-a state where decisions are no longer constrained by finite clocks but instead occur in an unbounded **infinite state space**. #### **Decisions as a Journey to the Infinite**: - The **nuclear clock** provides a gateway into understanding eternity. Its theoretical precision (accurate for the entire age of the universe) hints at time’s ultimate reconciliation with **infinity**. - Human decisions, like AI state transitions, represent the finite striving toward understanding the **eternal truth**. Each tick of the clock is a movement through the finite world but also a step toward the infinite. #### **Synthesis in the Diagram**: - Add a new dimension in the **state space**, labeled **eternal or infinite state**. This should represent the ultimate goal of both human decision-making and AI processing: an attempt to reconcile finite states with an infinite attractor. - Show how **nuclear time** represents this near-infinite state. Link it to both the **state space** and the **interdimensional mapping**, illustrating that time progresses differently in higher layers of existence. --- ### **Conclusion**: To **synthesize and expand the whiteboard diagram** into a truly multi-layered model of time, AI, and decision-making, the following steps can be integrated: 1. **Timekeeping**: - From **quartz to atomic and nuclear clocks**, visualize time as a multi-layered force that influences decision-making, synchronization, and time-series processing. 2. **State Space**: - Expand the state space into a **multi-dimensional decision-making process** influenced by time, showing **temporal state transitions**. 3. **Interdimensional Mapping**: - Add complexity to the interdim
Taking Jesus' miracles as an example, I've often mused that the _real_ miracle was not the singular event where a part of the world was manipulated, but that people did not demand that he do it over and over again (which is basically what we design our technology to do). Granted this _sort of_ happened where he was forced to go out on to the lake, but typically the larger and less visible miracle happened in the consciousness of the people around Jesus..
I think the meaning of miracles is a more important subject than the 'how' of miracles. But in reality, most people want to know 'how' a miracle is possible. Especially ones that seem to defy science. Although, people do make the mistake of thinking the term 'supernatural' means 'not natural'. But actually, Super just means to the extreme limits of what is natural. So something that is supernatural is still in the bounds of what is natural.
Yeah!!! That's it!! Ha ha ha. What a beautiful morning. Thank you Jonathan. In Yoga all the time there are miracles, like breath and transform that in life. Or eat and convert it in muscle and bones. Good lesson, again. Thanks.
I listened to the exodus discussion again and noticed you mentioning the burning bush as what the reality really is according to saint gregory of nysse. Could you please further this point a bit? Thanks.
I believe scientists have dicovered the method to count if the person has correct number of hands. But I agree that purpouse is much more difficult concept for science.
@@danielfoliaco3873When people talk about symbolic meanings and metaphysical meanings, I find there's a lot of overlap. To help us understand what you mean by a metaphysical meaning, maybe you could give an example of what a metaphysical explanation of something would be-- something either real or hypothetical, doesn't matter.
This generation doesn't deserve a miracle and we humans like ungrateful kids we ask for more candies even though we don't have enough money. Jesus said it himself by your faith your child is heal, the best prayer is to ask God for more faith, since faith is like money in haven it is like an infinite IOU and because of your debit in faith God will make you live forever in order that you will pay Him back.
Fantastic discussion re the magic in reality that can’t be understood as reducible to component parts-transcendence, in the language I’m used to (Levinas’ explanation of rabbinic philosophy). Transcendence exists in the cosmos, so proving God (etc.) is a fool’s errand. God just IS, because the cosmos contains transcendence. Period. So “the fool says in his heart” because by denying God he has to deny this overwhelming aspect of reality.
My guy, if you only knew how rich with synchronization my life is. Each moment is a miracle. Does you have the thoughts because it will happen? Or, does it happen because we think it? 🧛♂️
I’m a pretty smart guy and a believer but this makes little sense to me. I’m not really tracking him. This could have been a 5 min video explaining what he thinks a miracles is but instead he goes off on very strange scenarios. Very strange. I typically love his stuff.
Maybe on a really low level. Just like how a football team working in unison show signs of Heaven's unison, even though the game isn't as meaningful as coming together in church. Church unity > Football club unity > Animal pack unity
Heard the Miracle album by Queen this morning and I’ve been singing that song throughout listening to this! ❤. Freddie Mercury was a miracle too! God is still using him. ❤
Interesting to contemplate how all the Biblical miracles point to, or even participate in, the resurrection. Take, for example, Christ’s first documented miracle, of turning water into wine. It isn’t insignificant that this occurred at a wedding reception. And for the wine to have run out before the feast had ended…Socially, it would have brought hideous shame upon the wedding hosts. That wedding would have ended in a figurative death. So not only does Jesus’ inaugural miracle participate in a restoration, a “making whole” of that which was at risk of decomposition, it points towards the higher wedding feast, in which Christ _himself_ is the bridegroom.
I kind of understand this, but a question keeps nagging at me: It is written that jesus turned water into wine. This is written very unambiguously as something we materialists would consider magic - transform one chemical structure into another. How did the people that wrote that event down see it? That transmutation was possible as a manifestation of jesuses mastery of the cosmos and that miracle serves as a deep well of meaning in the context of the story. But did the water actually turn into wine? Im stuck on how to look at this. As we know much about causalities of our world through science, this morphs from mystery into impossibility... A man playing basketball can embody a "better basketball player", all the matter is already there. The potential of a rock falling onto a thief in a crucial moment, allowing for escape, is already there. How do you guys reconcile this?
Maybe one way to see it (and I think you articulated this at least in part) is that Christ, as both the Creator and a created being, was master of the created/material world as well as a material being within it. The ultimate "scientific expert". Or maybe the ultimate engineer. So if a modern chemist went back in time to the moment of the water-to-wine miracle, Jesus could have told the chemist what was going on chemically. Or Jesus could have told a botanist what was happening botanically. For that matter, he could have told wine makers (legit chemists of their day as well as ours) how to do it. I'm sure they asked him. So it's not that there's no possible scientific explanation for the miracle. But Christ's purpose was not to tell us things we're meant to learn for ourselves (the chemical properties of wine for example, or how to make it quickly). Rather, Christ's purpose was to show patterns of being, patterns of behavior, patterns of attention/worship, etc. that align with the ultimate purpose/pattern. And especially that the ultimate pattern of reality is Good rather than Bad. The ability to create Joy--real Joy--the kind that moves other joys towards unity (since that's the purpose, as well as the meaning, of wine at a wedding)--is a way to be fully human, which is what Christ was--the only fully human person and the way for all people to become more and more themselves. So your idea that the miracle's purpose was to show Christ's mastery of the cosmos--yes, that was one purpose. The embedded meaning within the culture and history of the day also helps us to understand the purpose of the miracle. But how did he do it? That part is left mysterious, as with all the other miracles, because apparently the "how" is emphatically and intentionally not the point. Maybe the "how" is left mysterious precisely because not knowing the "how" moves us to understand the "why", which is by far the trickier question, whether your world is modern or ancient. Would love to hear a response to this because I've not even scratched the surface of the answer to this question, lol.
It's an interesting one. Apparently it's his first public miracle too but I do wonder if he practiced or had turned a glass of water into wine before in his bedroom or kitchen as a teenager? Jesus also seems to be a bit annoyed to be at a wedding and gets bugged by his mother to have to fix a catering issue with a miracle.
It perhaps may be helpful to begin to consider the view of atoms, molecules, and cells as causal agents in the world rather than things subject to purely cause and effect. In this way, organizing human agents towards a purpose is no different than organizing atoms, cells, and molecules towards a purpose. One way to personally experience the casual agent nature is to move your hand in ways that are purposeful to you. You are fundamentally integrated as atoms, cells, and molecules acting collectively towards purposes that are independent of a casual framework (that is, you can change the purpose at any given time arbitrarily). Once studied enough to where one's consciousness "touches" beyond the body so to speak, one can manipulate atoms, molecules, and cells in various ways as easily as one motivates one's hand towards a purpose.
I really can't figure Pageau out. It often sounds like atheism with extra steps. Like believing the Christ story but only in a philosophical and symbolic sense but not literally. I dont understand
He's presenting it as such as an entryway for the skeptical to start to engage with the faith. He's not saying it's simply philosophical: the philosophical and "symbolic" aspects are a level at which we can understand it, and are just as true as the historical reality of these events.
@@MatthiasPendragon So correct me if im wrong. It sounds reminiscent of Jordan Peterson's suggestion that the narrative world and the material world overlap or converge in ways beyond just mere coincidence or contrivance. Pageau seems to think that our perception of a "material reality" is too reductive and that actually they're two sides of the same coin. I guess my trouble is reconciling the two and understanding "reality" beyond modern presuppositions and frameworks. Uuuugh, its a lot. Thanks for the reply
@austin0_bandit05 your essentially getting it. His ultimate point is that the "symbolic" understanding is in fact a "literal" understanding. We are used to thinking of symbolism as a sort of clever fiction we impose on material reality. Pagaue's point is that the symbolic is the pattern of reality. The symbol is just as real as the material world. It is a lot, and the language can be difficult. I still struggle to articulate it, but I think it's largely because our modern mindset and language is ill equipped to deal with the concepts that past generations grasped intuitively.
I think part of the issue is that Pageau (whom I admire and respect immensely) is still figuring out how to put these concepts into words. He has said before that he and his brother sort of developed a language for speaking of these things, and I imagine they did so in French, their first language. I wonder if maybe some of the difficulty in understanding him (which I share sometimes) is due to the fact that he isn’t really a “speaker,” at least not by nature or training. He’s an artist and a thinker. Someone else may be better able to articulate these concepts in a manner accessible to most folks. This is in no way a slight on Pageau. I greatly appreciate him and think he should continue doing just what he’s doing now. I suspect in time we’ll see people he’s influenced who are able to “popularize” his thinking for us dimmer bulbs (he said, self-deprecatingly).
Basketball. Every time. And today you even mixed in baseball and football. If you have ever mentioned HOCKEY I must have missed it. What kind of French Canadian omits hockey? Mon Dieu!
Snake!: Noise uttered by man, generally means when directed at a ject something in the order of "I know exactly how that could hurt me and all that we care for"
I'll save you all thirty minutes: "So people think of a miracle as (defines what a miracle is) but it's actually so much more because (stuff that is vaguely analogous to miracles)"
I think another reason could be pure spectacle and sensationalism i.e. Moses parting the sea to let the Jews cross into the Promised Land. It would've been not so inspiring if the Bible said they just go there by boats descended from Heaven from God.
You are describing the symbolic structure of experience. Your implicit proposition is that reality suffuses with miracle to the degree it's oriented towards its purpose. In your words it's a restoration of purpose. An apokastasis. There is taste in this idea beyond a sophistry, but I am not sure you are getting much beyond sophistry at all. Your interpretation of sports, especially team sports, seems too bewildered to me. Although you give expression to the manner in which the symbolic is a propety of reality, you still do not contend with the dilemma of the hypostasis of the symbolic. For the most part, a metaphorically inclined mind will relate to "symbolic occasions of experience", like, for instance, Jonah being swallowed by a great fish, as myth, in the positive sense, that is, a dramatic exposoure of an eternal image. As a condensation of subjectivity into a dramatic snapshop of symbolic experience. But when one begins to conflate, one truly begins to play games, and nothing more. The problemata stands. Is Christ a symbol, in the positive sense- being an inherent propety of reality, or reality as such?! That would make the symbolic, very simply, a property of Christ. And that, simply, very much implies that Christ's actiojs, including his miracles, still wholly depend on the symbolic, rather than the symbolic upon Christ. What then, does it mean to *actually* heal the blind? Not symbolically, my friend, that may be clear, as it is still the case that the healed subject in question must actively restore his ways, otherwise, Christ restored the impaired into a sinless state. Oh man, there is so much to go into here. I appreciate your overall approach to symbolism, but at one point, as Owen Barfiled puts it with a sniper's percision: Literallism is Idolatry.
Miracles occur when man obeys God. Nearly all of Jesus' miracles happened when He told someone what to do and they did it. It started with Him telling the servants to fill the jugs with water and distribute it, then it turned to wine. They could have told him no, you're crazy. But they did it. Think about when He fed the 5000. He told the disciples to take the fragments and feed the people. They did it. Even when he healed the blind man. He put mud in his eyes and told him to wash at a certain pool. The man did it. He could have said no, you're nuts you put mud in my eyes, but instead he obeyed. When he healed the crippled man, he said take up your bed and walk. The man could have said no, I'm crippled you idiot, but he obeyed.
"Miracles in Dark Souls are also affected by an online feature called "Resonance". If a player uses a miracle in their world (for example, "Wrath of the Gods"), other players connected to the same network will see a resonance marker in the area where you cast that miracle. If they then use the same miracle in that area then the power of their miracle will be increased. You'll know what spell to cast to enable the resonance by scrolling through your attuned spells and look for a spell that has a ring around it, similar to the resonance marker that appears in the world." It's on the wiki bro you didn't have to make a whole video asking about it.
Your going have to start being more reasonable man at a certain point you just sound like you speaking nonsense you shouldn't say things like there's so diffrence between a sick body and a healthy body what a horrible choice of words to make a sentence out of.
In the Orthodox tradition (St Maximos the Confessor being one voice) creation, though fallen from Grace, is still exists by Grace and is suffused with it
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This generation doesn't deserve a miracle and we humans like ungrateful kids we ask for more candies even though we don't have enough money. Jesus said it himself by your faith your child is heal, the best prayer is to ask God for more faith, since faith is like money in haven it is like an infinite IOU and because of your debit in faith God will make you live forever in order that you will pay Him back.
I am dead serious. Your video about the Olympics opening ceremony made me Christian. I’ve been going to church for 3 weeks since then and I owe this to you. I was a 53 year old atheist - I’m a believer now and your channel and Nathan Jacobs channel are a big part of it.
beautiful stuff. tolkein got me in the door, but I stayed because it's the best place to encounter the love of Christ
Saturday morning with Jonathan while I get some work done. A good day so far.
Sunday afternoon chilling and drawing outside in the sun while listening 👌
Everything is a miracle. What we call reality is a miracle.
Indeed. I like to meditate on it sometimes.
Clearly not, there is a distinction between the natural and the supernatural 🙃 otherwise the words to distinguish between them would not logically exist. But I can appreciate the hopeless romance. 😅
@BindingTheYoke There should be nothing and yet, there's everything. It's literally a miracle, our normalcy bias not withstanding.
As Terence McKenna observed, “Modern science is based on the principle: ‘Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest.’ The one free miracle is the appearance of all the mass and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it in a single instant from nothing"
@@BindingTheYoke I find your response quite intriguing. Language possesses immense power, and we reside within it as if it were a hyper-reality that occasionally obscures the true nature of reality. However, it is crucial to remember that language is merely a system that attempts to describe reality using relatively rudimentary dichotomies. It is of utmost importance that we do not lose sight of this fact.
I just finished your Symbolism and Christianity course on Peterson Academy! Seriously mind blowing stuff; I haven’t been able to look at the world the same since!!
Thanks so much for that comment! I dnk how I missed knowing that was available…I’ll be checking it out.
Miracles are messages from reality to remind you,you are loved..❤🙏🙏
Thank you Jonathan
You've put it together so perfectly, Jonathan. I have been struggling with the question of "Why the miracles?" for a long while, but thanks to you. You've always been a great exemplar to me. One day, I'll be as good as you. Keep inspiring/sponsoring my ambition to bring back the Love and Religion(s)!!! ❤
This was really good. Oddly, I just did a livestream last night on Navigating Patterns talking about the flat world. Miracles reveal that we live in an enchanted world. Helping people see is good, if they have eyes, which is always the problem. Thanks for the effort, keep up the good work!
I heard of and listened to Jordan Peterson before I heard of Jonathan Pageau. But I get the idea that Jonathan 'has it all together' in spiritual comprehension, whereas Jordan is still struggling to cope with what the world is about.
Thank God for what He reveals through His various servants. There's a time and place for them all.
The analogy of sport reminded me of a great documentary called "I believe in miracles". Nottingham forest went from a second division football team in england, made up of players considered not good enough, to first division champions and double European champions. Due mostly to the most charismatic manager of all time, Brian Clough. The players admitted they would run through walls just to get a thumbs up from the sidelines. Amazing how he could achieve what he did, by getting a group together and saying the right words at the right time.
Brilliant, in almost all contexts I identify with secularism/ atheism, not when Mr Pageau is talking. Your interpretations and explanations are totally coherent, I hope your specific demonstrations of religious ideas may be seen in each catholic/ orthodox primary school, I certainly wish they were when was there. 👏🏻
This was awesome - after listening for years to you Jonathan I finally thinks someday I will be able to comprehend it 😂
Gosh do I love Jonathan Pageau
Well dear Jonathan, you have convinced me.... in a lot of good things, thank you 😊
I can't remember the exact quote, but C.S. Lewis once commented
If you ask someone what the purpose of a sport is, the answer, "To score goals," is meaningless and hasn't gotten us anywhere. Scoring goals IS the sport, but to explain the purpose of the sport, we have to think on a level above sports.
I think the quote is from chapter 3 or Mere Christianity:
"If a man asked what was the point of playing football, it would not be much good saying 'in order to score goals,' for trying to score goals is the game itself, not the reason for the game, and you would really only be saying that football was football - which is true, but not worth saying. In the same way, if a man asks what is the point of behaving decently, it is no good replying, 'in order to benefit society,' for trying to benefit society, in other words being unselfish (for 'society' after all only means 'other people'), is one of the things decent behaviour consists in; all you are really saying is that decent behaviour is decent behaviour. You would have said just as much if you had stopped at the statement, 'Men ought to be unselfish.'"
@@dodopod thank you
The essence of a miracle is first and foremost God's love revealed to us through extraordinary means and allowing the opportunity to build a closer relationship with him. Now whether the event is revealed by God's use of the supernatural or by God's use of a natural events is a moot point. Because the revelation given to us needs to be viewed in the context of not the event itself but also the timing of the event - In other words - Why it happens but also when it happens. When a event can be explained through a lens of science and human reason most people reject the miraculous event outright but fail to realize and never fully explain the event's timing. The need of event to happen exactly when it was needed the most. If we look at a miracle in this way - it will ultimately lead us to a fuller understanding of our faith and sustains us when those who perpetuate doubt, and despair by nefariously using human reasoning as the penultimate authority in their efforts to destroy our faith in God.
Thanks
I was listening while cleaning my kitchen and just as you said “miracles compress reality” I was compressing my trash 😮 literally pushing it down as you said compress
amazing
Little miracle right there
Thank you! This helped a lot :)
I’m not into sports at all but with your explanation I see how it is a “religion” of many - to see the miracles with our eyes happen is so strong that people are drawn to eat so much. Thank you, Jonathan
The thought that came to me while he was discussing the rock hitting the guy in the head example: what they call a 'miracle' in biblical terms sounds pretty much like a 'synchronicity' in jungian terms 🤔
Best explanation I’ve seen so far. If you see everything as a miracle, it’s no different than someone saying nothing is a miracle. Our perception of meaning and purpose have to be involved, with the world revealing an answering sense of meaning and purpose, showing there is an ordering power from which ours comes.
I appreciate this discourse. I've wondered why the miracles of Christ and the early church fathers seemed to have largely been suspended, but that comes from learning a scientific and reductionist view of the world.
This is why I haven't seen much value in prayer as a 'thing' even though Christ endorsed it strongly. To me, prayers are mostly about requesting 'miracles' in physical manifestations. So I've reasoned that God is reticent to dabble with the creation because only He knows the butterfly effect of changing one little thing, whereas I/we have NO CLUE of the ramifications of our requests, should God actually take the action we ask.
So instead, I just shut up and take what comes. About the only thing I can do by praying is change how I think.
So praying is not something that you 'do', rather it's you, thinking, all day long. Our thoughts are always open to God, so there is no "Amen" to 'finish' a prayer because praying never stops.
As a Pentecostal, I think the reason many in my community use miracles as an apologetic is precisely because the miracle is the lens by which many of us came to know the divine (or “higher meaning” as you put it). It’s about a random unexplainable event to us, it’s more; it’s an ordering unto a knowing of Jesus Christ in ways that are only reasonably consistent with the person of Jesus Christ. That’s why we lean on miracles so much (to a fault, I will humbly admit)
Brilliant! I've never thought of miracles in this way - but it makes so much sense!
God help me. I’m struggling to take care of my children. Both of my sons are special needs and require so much from me. I struggle providing the necessities for them, especially now that school starting up. Lord Jesus I’m overwhelmed as a single mother. Please hear my prayers. I’m constantly struggling Lord give me strength I can’t do it without you.
Not you again! You are everywhere, sighing and tearing and manipulative as ever!
Scammers 🥴
Can’t wait 🙏🏾
Thanks Jonathan. Always appreciate your insights.
Miracles don't necessarily break the law of nature, do they? Because water to wine is just what happens with water as it goes through the grape and then ferments. It's like an acceleration rather than a breaking of the laws. I think I read this in CS Lewis' books...
Yes, it reveals the ultimate nature of reality
the laws of nature are infinitely complex, possibilities are endless. like how water "follows the laws of nature" and yet its movement is totally chaotic and unpredictable. science demands it be predicted
Even speeding it up would be breaking some laws. But correct, they don't necessarily need to break laws of nature. If you pray for a miracle from God to move a mountain out of the way and there's an earthquake that collapses the whole thing, it's safe to call that a miracle while not breaking physics
If, fundamentally, all matter is made up by different combinations of the same (61 by the latest counting) elemantary particles, then it's all just a matter of arranging and re-arranging. One could literally break apart the matter that comprises a human body, respect some basic analogies of water, nitrogen etc and create a great pile of mud. Or take a stone and re-arrange it's subatomic particles to turn it into a loaf of bread. This the same way (utimately) that fossil fuels are created. There is no "law" preventing either from happening, it's just that no one has that kind of mastery over nature (either via their own power of through technology of some kind) to be able to do so, especially if we talk like command a storm to stillness. Our modern technology may allow us to fire something into the clouds to cause or stop it, but speaking it to happen reveals a whole different level of mastery.
If something like that were to happen, it would prove almost to arbitrary certainty that someone a) intentionally arranged the initial conditions of the universe, and b) intentionally controlled the subsequent quantum events.
Miralces are a purpose that moves things upward into unity, life, and healing. Anything else is fragmentation and divison which leds to dis-ease and death.
We live in patterns/cycles creating life, death, and rebirth. Our responsibility and relationship to each and this world is tremendous. What we give our attention to truly matters.. We have an opportunity to participate in miracles. That's a beautiful purpose in itself which gives meaning for us all.
God bless and keep you Johnathan. 🙏 🥰
Thank you, sir! I believe you are helping many "thinkers" find the right thought path.
Life is 100% about meaning; it is full of God's Meaning. But this meaning cannot be coerced out of earthly reality by converging on "proof." It has to be created and agreed upon by conscious human choice.
Sacred things are not sacred because they are sacred, but because we perceive them to be sacred. We make them sacred, for many thousands of years over many generations. When we (together) cease to make things meaningful, to "will patterns/miracles" out of chaotic, liminal circumstances, we cease to be human. That is when I think we are no longer here on RUclips to celebrate. Thank God, and find meaning in His handiwork! 🙏
Our mind determines our outer world. "Ask and you shall receive." We ask for punishment if we think we are guilty and that we think sacrifice will redeem us. We allow healing and a miracle when we know we are redeemed by forgiveness instead of punishment.
"If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent."
Christ restores our innocence with forgiveness and then our minds allow God's abundance. "I am with you always."
2 Timothy 4:17 the Lord will stand with you and give you strength. God has been so faithful to me I exalt his name now and everyday of my life.☦️❤️🙏 Awesome God ❤️my family are happy once again and can now afford anything for my family even with my Retirement.$47k weekly returns has been life changing, after so much struggles.
Only God knows how much grateful i am. I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
Hello how do you make such weekly??
I'm a born Christian and sometimes I feel so down of myself because of low finance but I still believe in God.
@@marcosvg90Maria Angelina Alexander I really appreciate her efforts and transparency.
Giving her my initial savings of $15,000 to invest in a brokerage account was a turning point in my life less 7days. It's been an incredibly rewarding experience.
wow this awesome 👏 I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, my work hasn’t been helpful for me and my family. How can I reach her directly?
Thank you so much Jonathan.
Sometimes you get into so much detail that I have to take a breath! But it is all amazing! Thank you.
Sometimes I don’t need all that explanation because innately I just understand and believe it and know it and feel it and love it.
Perhaps that is what unity with Christ is? Or perhaps that is just seeing beyond this material world into the next area of space!
It proves, though, when you tell how we are entwined
with the invisible world/heaven/God…
it is clear how it goes from the tippy tippy top of things all the way down to the most minuscule things.
God/He is alive in them. It does make one thing for sure.
Actually, it should make us really feel excited about the adventure that will happen after we die.
I’m not sure I feel that way at the moment, but what you tell us helps us discern and understand more.
And also we ought to trust more after knowing all this information. Still is difficult though.
I hear you do not read your comments.
But at least I said them.
God is so mystical that he really is in every single particle of everything that’s alive.
That’s a tough thing to understand.
Because he’s not just some grandfather in the sky he’s literally everything.
Wow that will take me a while to continue to meditate upon.
🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for the birthday video Jonathan
I never thought about the resurrection as an image of perception itself, i.e. an image of how reality manifests itself in general.
Very cool
Thank you sir
Here sir
Ty
I probably won't stay for the hole thing
❤ sorry for the communication difficulties in our First contact Jonathan.❤
To delve even deeper into the diagram and the integration of timekeeping mechanisms (including quartz, atomic, and nuclear clocks), AI, interdimensional mapping, and theological considerations, we will expand on the foundational principles of time, decision-making, and their metaphysical connections. We'll treat the whiteboard not merely as a representation of technical systems but as a multi-layered conceptual framework that merges AI, quantum mechanics, and the deeper philosophical implications of time.
---
### **1. The Core of Time: The Bridge Between Finite and Infinite**
In any timekeeping system, from quartz crystals oscillating at 32,768 Hz to nuclear clocks (like Thorium-229), the concept of time is a bridge between **finite existence** and **eternal abstraction**. As we incorporate advanced timekeeping systems into the diagram, we should consider:
#### **Time as a Regulator of Finite Systems**:
- In computational and AI systems, **time is discretized** into units that are processed sequentially, whether through the ticking of a quartz crystal or the hyper-precise beats of an atomic clock.
- Each tick or clock pulse represents a **decision point** in the system's state space, much like a human decision point in time-bound existence.
- Extend this into the theological model: **finite human decisions**, made within the constraints of time, mirror the way AI makes state transitions within finite clocks. Just as humans are bound by their finite understanding of time, AI is similarly bound by its clock signal.
#### **Time as an Approach to the Infinite**:
- **Nuclear clocks**, with theoretical accuracies of 1 second in the age of the universe, approach a kind of **metaphysical infinity**. In these clocks, time no longer measures the mundane, but serves as a tool for exploring the fabric of existence at the deepest levels.
- Conceptually, **nuclear clocks** bridge the gap between the finite ticking of time and the possibility of understanding time beyond human experience-much like how theology speaks of **eternity** as a state beyond time.
#### **Synthesis in the Diagram**:
- Add a **nuclear clock layer** that includes a **visual bridge** between **finite time** (as measured by quartz and atomic clocks) and **infinite time** (as suggested by nuclear clocks).
- Connect this to the **state space** and **decision-making in AI**, symbolizing that every decision within a finite system (AI or human) is an attempt to approach the infinite-decisions ultimately driven by a **cosmic or theological attractor**.
---
### **2. Interdimensional Mapping: Exploring the Journey Through States**
#### **Time as a Multi-Dimensional Phenomenon**:
Time is not merely linear; in the context of advanced AI and metaphysics, it can be seen as **multi-dimensional**. Each "dimension" of time corresponds to different layers of reality, decision-making, and existence:
- **Linear Time**: The basic experience of time we perceive, regulated by clocks (quartz, atomic).
- **Layered Time**: As AI processes information, each layer (input, hidden layers, output) represents a different **time scale**. For instance, deep learning algorithms process information across layers, where each layer operates on a different temporal abstraction. Decisions ripple through layers at different speeds.
- **Non-Linear Time**: Nuclear clocks or advanced AI systems that incorporate quantum mechanics might not follow strictly linear timelines. In quantum AI, time might exist in superposition or experience entanglement-where decisions in one "dimension" of time affect others instantaneously.
#### **Synthesis in the Diagram**:
- Expand the **interdimensional mapping** section into multiple layers, where **time** can be visualized as flowing through different layers simultaneously.
- At the **lowest dimension** (the most "basic" layer of existence), the quartz clock drives the system. Moving **upward**, atomic clocks regulate higher-dimensional decisions. The **highest layer** (in terms of understanding time) would be the nuclear clock, representing near-eternal precision.
- Show **time loops** and **cross-layer interactions**, where decisions made in lower-dimensional layers ripple upward, affecting higher-dimensional states. Conversely, higher-dimensional actions (like changes in timekeeping) affect the flow of data in lower layers.
---
### **3. Time and Decision-Making in AI: Expanding the State Space**
The state space, where decisions are made and transitions occur, can be expanded to represent **temporal decision points**:
#### **State Transitions as Decisions in Time**:
- Every **state transition** (in AI or human decision-making) is a decision influenced by the ticking of a clock.
- The **HEX and DEC** values represent these transitions-symbolizing movement between possible choices. In AI, these might represent actions chosen by the system. In a theological model, these represent human choices, constrained by the passage of time.
- The **state space** itself can be visualized as **four-dimensional**, where the extra dimension represents the **time component**. In this case, time is not simply a tick of the clock but an active participant in the decision-making process.
#### **Synthesis in the Diagram**:
- Redraw the **state space** with a deeper emphasis on **time as a dimension**. Instead of purely representing a static grid, show how **state transitions are influenced by time**. Add **arrows** showing how different decisions are made as time progresses.
- Link this to the **timekeeping systems** (quartz, atomic, nuclear). The **time dimension** should flow through the state space, affecting the decisions made by the AI system.
- Show a **feedback loop**: as decisions are made, they alter the flow of time within the system, speeding up or slowing down clock cycles. This can mirror real-life decision-making, where choices influence future options.
---
### **4. "Play a Movie as a Clock": Reinterpreting Time-Based Data Flow**
The metaphor of **"Play a movie as a clock"** can be expanded into:
#### **Time as a Continuous Data Stream**:
- In AI, particularly systems dealing with time-series data or video frames, time becomes a sequence of events processed sequentially. Each **frame** in a movie is a **moment in time**, and the movie itself becomes a metaphor for how **time unfolds** in a computational system.
- For example, a **frame-based neural network** would process each frame of a video as one "tick" of the clock. The decisions made at each frame influence the next, much like how human decisions shape future events.
#### **Synchronization with Timekeeping Systems**:
- Add **arrows** between the **quartz oscillator** and the **"movie reel"**, symbolizing that the movie (AI system) progresses according to the clock signal. The clock provides the necessary synchronization for decisions to occur in the right order.
- Each **frame** could represent a **state transition** in the AI model, where the system makes a new decision based on the input from the current frame. The **movie as a clock** thus serves as a visualization of time driving decision-making.
#### **Synthesis in the Diagram**:
- Redraw the **movie reel** section, showing how each frame corresponds to a clock tick. Connect this to both the **quartz clock** (representing basic timekeeping) and the **state space** (representing decisions made at each tick).
- Add a section where **atomic and nuclear clocks** regulate more advanced systems, showing how more complex or critical decisions might require higher precision (e.g., real-time processing for autonomous vehicles or satellite systems).
---
### **5. Theological and Philosophical Synthesis: Eternity in the State Space**
#### **The Infinite Decision Loop**:
- The concept of **eternity** in theological terms could be likened to an infinite loop within a state space. Just as an AI system navigates its possible states based on clock pulses, so too do humans navigate decisions over the course of their lifetime.
- Eternity, then, is not just an absence of time but a **fullness of time**-a state where decisions are no longer constrained by finite clocks but instead occur in an unbounded **infinite state space**.
#### **Decisions as a Journey to the Infinite**:
- The **nuclear clock** provides a gateway into understanding eternity. Its theoretical precision (accurate for the entire age of the universe) hints at time’s ultimate reconciliation with **infinity**.
- Human decisions, like AI state transitions, represent the finite striving toward understanding the **eternal truth**. Each tick of the clock is a movement through the finite world but also a step toward the infinite.
#### **Synthesis in the Diagram**:
- Add a new dimension in the **state space**, labeled **eternal or infinite state**. This should represent the ultimate goal of both human decision-making and AI processing: an attempt to reconcile finite states with an infinite attractor.
- Show how **nuclear time** represents this near-infinite state. Link it to both the **state space** and the **interdimensional mapping**, illustrating that time progresses differently in higher layers of existence.
---
### **Conclusion**:
To **synthesize and expand the whiteboard diagram** into a truly multi-layered model of time, AI, and decision-making, the following steps can be integrated:
1. **Timekeeping**:
- From **quartz to atomic and nuclear clocks**, visualize time as a multi-layered force that influences decision-making, synchronization, and time-series processing.
2. **State Space**:
- Expand the state space into a **multi-dimensional decision-making process** influenced by time, showing **temporal state transitions**.
3. **Interdimensional Mapping**:
- Add complexity to the interdim
Taking Jesus' miracles as an example, I've often mused that the _real_ miracle was not the singular event where a part of the world was manipulated, but that people did not demand that he do it over and over again (which is basically what we design our technology to do). Granted this _sort of_ happened where he was forced to go out on to the lake, but typically the larger and less visible miracle happened in the consciousness of the people around Jesus..
I think the meaning of miracles is a more important subject than the 'how' of miracles. But in reality, most people want to know 'how' a miracle is possible. Especially ones that seem to defy science.
Although, people do make the mistake of thinking the term 'supernatural' means 'not natural'. But actually, Super just means to the extreme limits of what is natural. So something that is supernatural is still in the bounds of what is natural.
Miracle as i have come to postulate of a Christian is their heritage reality.
Yeah!!! That's it!! Ha ha ha. What a beautiful morning. Thank you Jonathan.
In Yoga all the time there are miracles, like breath and transform that in life. Or eat and convert it in muscle and bones. Good lesson, again. Thanks.
Sounds good.
Made me think of the movie they made for the 1980 olympic gold metal hockey game
I would love it if you were able to speak to Novak Djokovic about the spiritual lessons in sports!!
I listened to the exodus discussion again and noticed you mentioning the burning bush as what the reality really is according to saint gregory of nysse. Could you please further this point a bit? Thanks.
I believe scientists have dicovered the method to count if the person has correct number of hands. But I agree that purpouse is much more difficult concept for science.
Amazing video!! Xx
I wonder if Jonathan Pageau is familiar with 'the course of miracles'.
A very heretical gnostic text based on a demonic miracle to lead people subtly into the delusion of self-deification
My friend was in an 80s Australian band called “The Reasons Why”.
Eureka!
I wanted to hear an explanation of the supernatural.
I think you got one❤ ...part of the answer anyway.
@@kastelk the meaning, yes. I'm waiting for the methaphysycs .
MrMarccj below summarized it like this: A miracle is a higher level of reality operating on a lower level of reality.
@@danielfoliaco3873When people talk about symbolic meanings and metaphysical meanings, I find there's a lot of overlap. To help us understand what you mean by a metaphysical meaning, maybe you could give an example of what a metaphysical explanation of something would be-- something either real or hypothetical, doesn't matter.
This generation doesn't deserve a miracle and we humans like ungrateful kids we ask for more candies even though we don't have enough money. Jesus said it himself by your faith your child is heal, the best prayer is to ask God for more faith, since faith is like money in haven it is like an infinite IOU and because of your debit in faith God will make you live forever in order that you will pay Him back.
Im making a new playkist specifically for you sir. Thank you baby v
I've got one going too. He's great!
You may not convince atheists into the reality of miracles, but you convinced this theist to watch sports!
Can I summarise this video into one line? A miracle is a higher level reality operating on a lower level reality.
MrMarccj below summarized it like this: A miracle is a higher level of reality operating on a lower level of reality.
So would this classify Trump dodging the bullet heading towards his head by turning at the right time a miracle?
Yes
Fantastic discussion re the magic in reality that can’t be understood as reducible to component parts-transcendence, in the language I’m used to (Levinas’ explanation of rabbinic philosophy). Transcendence exists in the cosmos, so proving God (etc.) is a fool’s errand. God just IS, because the cosmos contains transcendence. Period. So “the fool says in his heart” because by denying God he has to deny this overwhelming aspect of reality.
How do we explain the miracle of virgin birth in this perspective?
Hey Jonathan, do you think Mari Mari event where the attempter
knife didn’t open accounts for a miracle?
That's a great explanation, but a very poorly placed ad for your course in the middle of a sentence 16:20
The Big Bang.
My guy, if you only knew how rich with synchronization my life is. Each moment is a miracle. Does you have the thoughts because it will happen? Or, does it happen because we think it? 🧛♂️
I’m a pretty smart guy and a believer but this makes little sense to me. I’m not really tracking him. This could have been a 5 min video explaining what he thinks a miracles is but instead he goes off on very strange scenarios. Very strange. I typically love his stuff.
So a hyena pack that hunts in unison is a miracle?
Maybe on a really low level. Just like how a football team working in unison show signs of Heaven's unison, even though the game isn't as meaningful as coming together in church. Church unity > Football club unity > Animal pack unity
Amer!
Every drop of rain that falls, the Sahara desert says it all...
Heard the Miracle album by Queen this morning and I’ve been singing that song throughout listening to this! ❤. Freddie Mercury was a miracle too! God is still using him. ❤
Interesting to contemplate how all the Biblical miracles point to, or even participate in, the resurrection. Take, for example, Christ’s first documented miracle, of turning water into wine. It isn’t insignificant that this occurred at a wedding reception. And for the wine to have run out before the feast had ended…Socially, it would have brought hideous shame upon the wedding hosts. That wedding would have ended in a figurative death. So not only does Jesus’ inaugural miracle participate in a restoration, a “making whole” of that which was at risk of decomposition, it points towards the higher wedding feast, in which Christ _himself_ is the bridegroom.
Breathing is a miracle if you have emphazema.
I kind of understand this, but a question keeps nagging at me:
It is written that jesus turned water into wine.
This is written very unambiguously as something we materialists would consider magic - transform one chemical structure into another.
How did the people that wrote that event down see it? That transmutation was possible as a manifestation of jesuses mastery of the cosmos and that miracle serves as a deep well of meaning in the context of the story.
But did the water actually turn into wine? Im stuck on how to look at this. As we know much about causalities of our world through science, this morphs from mystery into impossibility...
A man playing basketball can embody a "better basketball player", all the matter is already there. The potential of a rock falling onto a thief in a crucial moment, allowing for escape, is already there.
How do you guys reconcile this?
Maybe one way to see it (and I think you articulated this at least in part) is that Christ, as both the Creator and a created being, was master of the created/material world as well as a material being within it. The ultimate "scientific expert". Or maybe the ultimate engineer. So if a modern chemist went back in time to the moment of the water-to-wine miracle, Jesus could have told the chemist what was going on chemically. Or Jesus could have told a botanist what was happening botanically. For that matter, he could have told wine makers (legit chemists of their day as well as ours) how to do it. I'm sure they asked him. So it's not that there's no possible scientific explanation for the miracle. But Christ's purpose was not to tell us things we're meant to learn for ourselves (the chemical properties of wine for example, or how to make it quickly). Rather, Christ's purpose was to show patterns of being, patterns of behavior, patterns of attention/worship, etc. that align with the ultimate purpose/pattern. And especially that the ultimate pattern of reality is Good rather than Bad.
The ability to create Joy--real Joy--the kind that moves other joys towards unity (since that's the purpose, as well as the meaning, of wine at a wedding)--is a way to be fully human, which is what Christ was--the only fully human person and the way for all people to become more and more themselves.
So your idea that the miracle's purpose was to show Christ's mastery of the cosmos--yes, that was one purpose. The embedded meaning within the culture and history of the day also helps us to understand the purpose of the miracle. But how did he do it? That part is left mysterious, as with all the other miracles, because apparently the "how" is emphatically and intentionally not the point. Maybe the "how" is left mysterious precisely because not knowing the "how" moves us to understand the "why", which is by far the trickier question, whether your world is modern or ancient.
Would love to hear a response to this because I've not even scratched the surface of the answer to this question, lol.
It's an interesting one. Apparently it's his first public miracle too but I do wonder if he practiced or had turned a glass of water into wine before in his bedroom or kitchen as a teenager? Jesus also seems to be a bit annoyed to be at a wedding and gets bugged by his mother to have to fix a catering issue with a miracle.
It perhaps may be helpful to begin to consider the view of atoms, molecules, and cells as causal agents in the world rather than things subject to purely cause and effect. In this way, organizing human agents towards a purpose is no different than organizing atoms, cells, and molecules towards a purpose.
One way to personally experience the casual agent nature is to move your hand in ways that are purposeful to you. You are fundamentally integrated as atoms, cells, and molecules acting collectively towards purposes that are independent of a casual framework (that is, you can change the purpose at any given time arbitrarily). Once studied enough to where one's consciousness "touches" beyond the body so to speak, one can manipulate atoms, molecules, and cells in various ways as easily as one motivates one's hand towards a purpose.
I really can't figure Pageau out. It often sounds like atheism with extra steps. Like believing the Christ story but only in a philosophical and symbolic sense but not literally. I dont understand
He's presenting it as such as an entryway for the skeptical to start to engage with the faith. He's not saying it's simply philosophical: the philosophical and "symbolic" aspects are a level at which we can understand it, and are just as true as the historical reality of these events.
@@MatthiasPendragon So correct me if im wrong. It sounds reminiscent of Jordan Peterson's suggestion that the narrative world and the material world overlap or converge in ways beyond just mere coincidence or contrivance. Pageau seems to think that our perception of a "material reality" is too reductive and that actually they're two sides of the same coin. I guess my trouble is reconciling the two and understanding "reality" beyond modern presuppositions and frameworks. Uuuugh, its a lot. Thanks for the reply
@austin0_bandit05 your essentially getting it. His ultimate point is that the "symbolic" understanding is in fact a "literal" understanding. We are used to thinking of symbolism as a sort of clever fiction we impose on material reality. Pagaue's point is that the symbolic is the pattern of reality. The symbol is just as real as the material world.
It is a lot, and the language can be difficult. I still struggle to articulate it, but I think it's largely because our modern mindset and language is ill equipped to deal with the concepts that past generations grasped intuitively.
I think part of the issue is that Pageau (whom I admire and respect immensely) is still figuring out how to put these concepts into words. He has said before that he and his brother sort of developed a language for speaking of these things, and I imagine they did so in French, their first language. I wonder if maybe some of the difficulty in understanding him (which I share sometimes) is due to the fact that he isn’t really a “speaker,” at least not by nature or training. He’s an artist and a thinker. Someone else may be better able to articulate these concepts in a manner accessible to most folks. This is in no way a slight on Pageau. I greatly appreciate him and think he should continue doing just what he’s doing now. I suspect in time we’ll see people he’s influenced who are able to “popularize” his thinking for us dimmer bulbs (he said, self-deprecatingly).
MrMarccj here summarized it like this: A miracle is a higher level of reality operating on a lower level of reality.
Basketball. Every time. And today you even mixed in baseball and football.
If you have ever mentioned HOCKEY I must have missed it.
What kind of French Canadian omits hockey?
Mon Dieu!
Your death analogy of loss of purpose reminds me of zombies and how our culture is like a zombie version of its former Christian self.
I'm lost, I thought this was a Dark Souls 3 video
Snake!: Noise uttered by man, generally means when directed at a ject something in the order of "I know exactly how that could hurt me and all that we care for"
A symbol of the unconscious, a thought thinked and used for excaping from the nothingness of the reality. A tool of fear.
I'll save you all thirty minutes:
"So people think of a miracle as (defines what a miracle is) but it's actually so much more because (stuff that is vaguely analogous to miracles)"
MrMarccj here summarized it like this: A miracle is a higher level of reality operating on a lower level of reality.
Magic or miracle? Not the same!
I think another reason could be pure spectacle and sensationalism i.e. Moses parting the sea to let the Jews cross into the Promised Land. It would've been not so inspiring if the Bible said they just go there by boats descended from Heaven from God.
You are describing the symbolic structure of experience. Your implicit proposition is that reality suffuses with miracle to the degree it's oriented towards its purpose. In your words it's a restoration of purpose. An apokastasis. There is taste in this idea beyond a sophistry, but I am not sure you are getting much beyond sophistry at all. Your interpretation of sports, especially team sports, seems too bewildered to me. Although you give expression to the manner in which the symbolic is a propety of reality, you still do not contend with the dilemma of the hypostasis of the symbolic. For the most part, a metaphorically inclined mind will relate to "symbolic occasions of experience", like, for instance, Jonah being swallowed by a great fish, as myth, in the positive sense, that is, a dramatic exposoure of an eternal image. As a condensation of subjectivity into a dramatic snapshop of symbolic experience. But when one begins to conflate, one truly begins to play games, and nothing more. The problemata stands. Is Christ a symbol, in the positive sense- being an inherent propety of reality, or reality as such?! That would make the symbolic, very simply, a property of Christ. And that, simply, very much implies that Christ's actiojs, including his miracles, still wholly depend on the symbolic, rather than the symbolic upon Christ. What then, does it mean to *actually* heal the blind? Not symbolically, my friend, that may be clear, as it is still the case that the healed subject in question must actively restore his ways, otherwise, Christ restored the impaired into a sinless state. Oh man, there is so much to go into here. I appreciate your overall approach to symbolism, but at one point, as Owen Barfiled puts it with a sniper's percision: Literallism is Idolatry.
A miracle is the misinterpretation of what you observe coupled with delusion.
Miracles occur when man obeys God. Nearly all of Jesus' miracles happened when He told someone what to do and they did it. It started with Him telling the servants to fill the jugs with water and distribute it, then it turned to wine. They could have told him no, you're crazy. But they did it.
Think about when He fed the 5000. He told the disciples to take the fragments and feed the people. They did it. Even when he healed the blind man. He put mud in his eyes and told him to wash at a certain pool. The man did it. He could have said no, you're nuts you put mud in my eyes, but instead he obeyed. When he healed the crippled man, he said take up your bed and walk. The man could have said no, I'm crippled you idiot, but he obeyed.
Yes, and then there are miracles that come without obedience, but inspire obedience
"Miracles in Dark Souls are also affected by an online feature called "Resonance". If a player uses a miracle in their world (for example, "Wrath of the Gods"), other players connected to the same network will see a resonance marker in the area where you cast that miracle. If they then use the same miracle in that area then the power of their miracle will be increased. You'll know what spell to cast to enable the resonance by scrolling through your attuned spells and look for a spell that has a ring around it, similar to the resonance marker that appears in the world."
It's on the wiki bro you didn't have to make a whole video asking about it.
Your going have to start being more reasonable man at a certain point you just sound like you speaking nonsense you shouldn't say things like there's so diffrence between a sick body and a healthy body what a horrible choice of words to make a sentence out of.
Is there any meaningful distinction for Christians between natural and super natural? I Think not...
In the Orthodox tradition (St Maximos the Confessor being one voice) creation, though fallen from Grace, is still exists by Grace and is suffused with it
@@Observer-g6m Exactly, the word natural implies that something besides God is self existent.
so basically a miracle could be anything if you think it is. cool.
Pretty dismissive
You obviously weren't paying attention.
MrMarccj here summarized it like this: A miracle is a higher level of reality operating on a lower level of reality.
@@Observer-g6m so, it could be anything you think it is
Oh! 20 hours, I thought it was 20 minutes! Bye
He's back!