1978 Toyota Pickup/Hilux 20R - GM HEI Ignition Module Conversion
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2016
- Turns out my original (38 years old!) Toyota Igniter (ignition module) was on the way out (along with the rest of my ignition, see previous videos). "Plug and Play" aftermarket replacements are available, but at a cost of $250 to $400! If you can even find a Toyota dealer that can get you a Toyota OEM one new, it's $800 plus!! Outrageous.
So I decided to convert to a General Motors HEI (High Energy Ignition) 4 Pin ignition module. It does the same job as the Toyota OEM unit and does it quite well, thank you, and at a LOT less money. Prices range from $17 to $30, and they are available at almost any parts store. A BIG PLUS if it ever goes out on you; easy to find almost anywhere you are, cheap enough to carry a spare in your glovebox, and easily replaced with a screwdriver & pliers. It even works with my "stock" replacement coil without ballast resistors or any other nonsense; very clean package.
This conversion will work on all CARBURETED Toyota 20R & 22R engines & will also work on carbureted Toyota 1.6 & 1.8 liter engines. There is much difference of opinion on whether this will work with the 22RE (electronic fuel injection); check out the online forums for more info.
It will also work with almost any engine with a carburetor and distributor with a pick-up coil Will also work with points distributors. In my research I saw this used with MOPAR Slant 6's, 318's, 340's, old Volvos, even some Ford small blocks.
My total cost for this conversion was under $40. This included module, heat sink, wire, connectors and heat shrink tubing. Saved $200 or more over the OEM style unit.
There are several write-ups online about how to do this, just search for "Toyota Ignition Bypass" or "Toyota GM HEI Ignition Module". There are also some wiring diagrams online; just check "images".
PLEASE NOTE: There is 1 important thing I did not mention in the video. The GM module has 2 plastic locator pins on it that need to be snipped off flush, so the module will mount flush to the heat sink. This is important for heat transfer, as the module will produce heat when operating (this is normal) and it helps with electrical grounding (CRITICAL!) I just used a small pair of diagonal cutters to cut them off, but reasonably strong scissors would work too. 
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That is exactly what I was looking for . Great job on the explanation. Can't wait to convert mine.
Thank you, glad it helped. If you have any questions when you get to your conversion just let me know, and I'll be glad to help where I can, if needed.
I will also solder all my terminal fittings ( male & female ) fittings also.. thanks a bunch your great.. what a awesome video
Thank you, glad it was a help to you. Soldering the terminal fittings is always a good idea; wish I had done it but it's still working with crimp connectors, so far so good! Good luck with your project.
Excellent video my friend, good, smart engineering, will be putting together a set up like this for my 85 4x4 22R 👍👌😉
Thank you. Not sure if it's noted in the video or comments (it's been a while), but be sure to use a quality ignition coil. I've learned through experience that the cheap coils don't last, and end up blowing up the module. Expensive lessons that no one else needs to go through. I'd recommend any solid brand of coil like Intermotor, Standard Motor Products, or even a stock Toyota coil. You get what you pay for.
Just did this conversion on my '78 Toyota Chinook today! Followed your video completely and did not have a single issue. Took about an hour or so. Thanks for the great list of '78 fix-it videos. BTW - I left you a message a few months ago about bolt sizes, etc. - your reply on that was to go to Ace Hardware, which was spot on. I've found just about everything I need fastener-wise in there.
Good work sir! Glad to hear the conversion worked for you and happy to be of help. Also happy to know I made the video complete enough. Sometimes I worry (and get messages from people) that the video is too long. I always try to make those vids complete because there is never any sense in doing it "half-butt". :^)
@@The13thSword I think the detail is necessary for these type of videos. If you made them shorter, people will complain that they are too short. Do your thing.
Looking for a good write up on a GM 1 (or 3, perhaps) wire alternator conversion, and on the hunt for a W50 transmission. I'm here in FL if you hear of anything! Thanks again.
@@KevinMims Not sure why you'd want to convert to the 1 or 3 wire GM Alt, but there are several write-ups & threads on it on Yotatech forums. Just Google Yotatech & you'll find the site, which you can search in for the articles.
Your truck being a Chinook it probably came stock with the 55 amp alternator, instead of the 45 amp model that the "regular" pickups came with. Both are externally regulated. The 55 amp model is still available remanufactured and Rock Auto has them at a much better price than the parts stores, even with shipping. They also have the voltage regulators. For the original alt setup, I recommend the Standard VR149 Regulator. You can see it all here: www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1978,pickup,2.2l+l4,1277108
I don't know of anything local in FL for the trans, But Yoda Jims in CO is likely to have one. I've been pretty lucky with them on parts, and they also seem to have some motorhome models there, so the parts from them are lower mileage & in good shape. Google "yodajims" and you'll find them. You have to call them as they do not do online ordering.
Let me know if I can help with anything else.
@@The13thSword Thanks for the Yoda Jims info - looks like a great resource. On the GM alternator, I'm trying to eliminate items that aren't always stocked items - I don't want to be stuck while traveling waiting on an alternator or voltage regulator. Plus I'll be running dual batteries, so the extra amperage will be beneficial.
Not completely ruling out the 55 amp, but again want to make sure I'm easily covered while traveling.
@@KevinMims In that case the GM Alt would probably make more sense for you, as they are almost always in stock at nearly any parts store. Only problem with that is doing the new wiring for it, but I think the effort would pay off the first time you ever had an Alt problem on the road.
You may already have plans or have thought of this, but I'd recommend you also overhaul/update the battery isolater system & related wiring. Having a functional isolater is also a good way to not get stuck on the road, as it electrically separates the "house" battery from the "chassis" battery, but allows both to charge from the Alt as needed. This also keeps the "house" circuit from draining the "chassis" battery, & leaving you stuck with a truck that won't start in the morning.
Thank you so much, good job explaining everything.
Thank you! You just solved my problem. You explained it so well.
Glad it was a help, that's my whole purpose in posting these videos. If I can help with anything else just ask.
Man you are amazing! This helped out a ton! Thank you
Glad it was of some help.
The Toyota I just bought was running real rough when cold then fine when warmed up-also had bad backfire. I took at it to get it running smoothly,the first fix was really bad ex manfld crack, welded it up got it sealed up perfectly ( took a few time cuz it kept cooling to quickly then hair line cracking, then got it good cuz I burried it in sand to control cooling). That quieted it up but still had some backfire going on and ran rough when cold and also dieseled sometimes. Verdict is after making it die multiple times by spraying carb cleaner around intake....intake manifold gasket is leaking air. This will cause a rough idle , especially when cold and metal is not expected, also will cause dieseling and backfiring. These trucks are super fun to drive in my opinion. My truck only has 93k on it and is in pretty good overall condition.good luck!
Excellent work sir on finding your problems and fixing them! Let me know in the future if I can be of any help to you.
Thanks again, got my 76 pickup running, fuel pump seems to be functioning but the alternator light came on so waiting for a new voltage regulator and alternator.. But in the mean time, threw a couple of solar panels on top hooked to a deep cycle battery on the floorboard of the cab, ran some wires straight to o the battery and works like a dream..lol..that's why I like the older cars because their simple, gas, fuel, spark.. I wouldn't be able to do this on a car with a ECU or a bunch of electronics. Anyways, thanks for your help..
As I suspected, a little extra voltage made the difference. The new regulator along with the new alt should cure most of the problems on a long term basis. Also proves that your ignitor is working right & your pickup coil is adjusted right. If you have a volt/ohm meter, you may want to check the resistance on that fuel pump resistor just to be sure, as well as the resistance on the main charging wire from alternator to battery. Shouldn't read any higher than 0.2 ohms.
If you don't have a volt/ohm meter Harbor Freight has one for about $6. Saved me a ton of headache & guesswork.
Keep me posted on your progress.
Yup, got my harbor freight volt/ohm meter and been checking voltage but now going to do as you suggest and check resistance. Thanks again young man for you have saved me a lot of time and money at the mechanic shop. Much appreciated..
No problem at all. Amazing what a little applied knowledge & effort can do....
BTW, the spec for that resistor is 1.4 ohms @ 5 watts. It may read OK cold, but escalate in resistance during use, as it warms up. You can check this while it's running, OR, check it cold, leave your leads hooked up to it, then hit it with a hair dryer on high or at least a minute. If the resistance goes up with heat, bingo, resistor going bad.
Thanks again..
Great vid! I may need to do this to my 84 work truck that I plan to just keep rebuilding. I have found this conversion for older Ford truck. I am thinking to do this to my 1965 f250 4x4, that is going to get a 1982 300 six with HEI.
Thanks. Should work for the Ford 300 as well, as long as the distributor has the hall effect pickup. Or, you could use an old style Duraspark box to keep it all Ford, just an option. Good luck with it all.
The GM module won't work with points (from what I've read), but Ford's TFI modules do. But really, on a points setup they make electronic ignition conversions (like Pertronix) that work really well and not expensive at all, and that way you eliminate the point altogether. I did this on my '70 Chevelle and it worked great.
Thank you so much very informative video
Thank you, glad it was helpful.
I have the original transistorized ignition with California emissions on my 20 r.. somebody screwed with it a long time ago and now I had to tear apart of it out because it had been added on to and I found out that resistor that looks like a resistor takes two positives
So you're saying you have the original stock Toyota "ignition & ballast resistor" setup? Is this the resistor you mentioned earlier, the one that had no continuity? If so, then that resistor is bad & acting like an open circuit, no power to ignition coil positive, so there would be no spark.
Not sure what you mean by the resistor having 2 positives? If you mean that both terminals on the resistor are "battery voltage positive" then that's correct.
Which makes me wonder a bit about your saying the resistor has "no continuity". How did you check this? If you were using a volt/ohm meter & had it set to "volts" you would see any reading at all, because you only have positive running through the resistor. You'd need to connect your black test lead to a ground point to see what voltage is there.
Just for clarity here, continuity is checked using an "ohms" setting on the volt/ohm meter, or an actual continuity setting if the meter has one.
Can you be more specific on what you mean by "no continuity"? How did you check for this? Please describe.
I need to know how all the vacuum lines go on this truck I have a 79 20R two-wheel drive long bed five speed and some of the hoses been taken off and it I don't like crap and I don't know how they go or where they go so if you could show me all your vacuum lines it will help me so much
Sorry I’m still learning. So the two red wires at 6:45 connect to two positive lines?
I just did this conversion with the same parts that you used it is on a 1987 truck with a 22r engine from what I understand the coil that I purchased does not have a ballast resistor what ballast resistor do I need to install to ensure that my ICM does not burn
In general, no, you do not need a ballast resistor. Modern ignition coils (generally from 1972 onwards) are designed to operate at 12 volts. Older coils were designed to operate at 7 to 9 volts (old-timers called them "6 volt coils"), so the resistor was needed to drop or "regulate" the voltage & current going to your coil, and to make it live longer. The GM style HEI modules are designed to use full battery voltage (12 volt) so there is no need for a ballast resistor.
To the best of my knowledge, there are several ways an ignition control module (ICM) could fry. Most common is a bad coil. If the secondary resistance of the coil gets too high, due to shorted windings, the higher resistance can & will burn the ICM. I went through this three times on my truck, due to using a poor quality coil. If you got the Standard Motor Parts UC12 coil you're OK. Any of the Chinese made coils are a problem. Their quality is low, they don't last & proceed to toast ICM's one after another until you get a good quality coil to replace it.
BTW, the HEI modules will work with coil secondary resistances rated as high as 12,500 Ohms spec. Stock spec on the 1987 Toyota 22R coil is 0.5-0.7 Ohms Primary, 11.500 Ohms Secondary, so the HEI ICM should work just fine.
Other causes of ICM failure are: too much underhood heat (rarely a problem), poor heat dissipation from the module (too small or no heat sink, dried out or missing heat sink compound, module poorly seated), voltage spikes (failed alternator and/or voltage regulator).
This conversion is also great for being easy to fix if the ICM does fry. They are cheap enough to keep a spare in the glovebox along with a few basic tools. They can be changed out on the side of the road in 5-10 minutes so you can get going again.
I did that on mine its been working like this for the last 3 yrs. I bought the alternator bracket to install the GM one wire Alternator. Eliminates the external Voltage Regulator
Well, it doesn't exactly eliminate the voltage regulator, because there is an internal regulator in the GM Alternator.
@@The13thSword yar, but it eliminates the EXTERNAL voltage regulator. Which is what they said. I'm totally doing this mod by the way, it looks like the best thing to do for this situation, and great parts availability as well.
UPDATE - This conversion does work fine, BUT....
I have to admit I made a mistake during the install. I had to use a #8 female spade lug for the green wire (red wire coming from distributor pickup coil), due to the fact that the lug for the "G" terminal on the GM module is smaller than the rest (see video). Unfortunately, the smaller lug didn't really crimp too well on the new 14 gauge wire I used, causing a bad connection. Apparently, this was the cause of my wandering idle & backfiring problems. The wire in the crimp was loose & causing an intermittent connection. Duh me.
I ended up using a female lug the same size as the rest, that would accept the 14 gauge wire correctly, & give a solid crimp connection. I did mash down the legs on the lug to make it fit tight on the male lug, and it's solidly in place. Every since I did this the idle is solid @ 850-875 RPM with no wandering & the backfiring from the tailpipe is gone.
I wasn't getting enough spark energy at some times due to the wonky crimp connection, causing an intermittent lean issue, sometimes to the point of stalling out the motor. Since it came and went without any pattern, it was almost impossible to troubleshoot (listen to my description in the video). I only found it by accident when I decided to recheck the connectors on the module. That one was loose & when I tried to pull it off to tighten it up, the wire came right out of the lug! And no, I wasn't just pulling the wire. Just one of those things & wanted to post an update in case anyone else is experiencing the tailpipe poping & weird low idle after doing the conversion. Triple check your crimps & connections!!!!
how dependable has this set up been
randy yowl this is not my video but I found it works very well I just recently done it to one that I purchased to fix and sell and have driven the hell out of it almost want to keep it but it most definitely works better than the original as well as the cost
Randy, sorry I missed your original post. So far this setup has been very dependable, no problems with it at all. As long as you make sure you have a very good, solid electrical ground to the module it works great. An iffy ground could cause it to function on a not so dependable basis. The only other thing to watch for is to use a heat sink like I did in the video. Keeping the module cool helps it live & work a long time.
Please see my other comments for more info, or reply to this if you have any specific questions.
The setup is very dependable, IF you pair the module with a QUALITY ignition coil. I do NOT recommend any Chinese made ignition coils. The quality is poor & the primary coil side seems to short out easily, sometimes within 6 months. This will cause you all kinds of idling & driveability problems, and will also wreck your module.
Other recommendations are to not use the supplied thermal paste you get with the module, but to use a good quality thermal paste for computer heatsinks. I use Arctic MX-2. It's only $3 or $4 a tube and has 10 times the heat conductivity rating than the silicone paste you get with the module. Keeping the module cool is critical to it working right & making it live a long time. Also, a solid ground connection is critical. I show you this in the video.
Thank u for this video it’s the only one that’s detailed I did my install yesterday took me 25 min I had to mount the hei module separate from the coil I couldn’t get it to fit the coil like u did I’ll be making my own video of my79 Toyota running its amazing how much better it’s idles and it runs amazing at high rpms
Hello Everyone!
I need to do this conversion as well because my car will randomly die on the road. My dad put an extra one of these igniter with coil units so all I have to do is change the wires from one unit to the other and the car turns back on. My question is will this modification work with the regular distributer on the 20r engine? Or do I have to change that part as well?
Hey, The13thSword! I have recently bought and fell in love with a 1977 Toyota Hilux and have been watching many of your videos to DIY some repairs on the truck Super appreciate the knowledgable and detailed step by step videos you have taken the time to make and share. I recently put in a gm hei conversion igniter box in her and keep on coming across the same universal coil (all state that an external resistor is required). I noticed that you bypassed this and am wondering what part number and from where did you get your coil? Does it not require an external resistor? Thanks for your time!
You are most welcome, always glad to try and help another owner! I include as much detail as I do to be as clear as possible. Nothings worse in vehicle repair than having to guess at something.
So let's get into whether or not you need a ballast resistor. The simple answers are: 1 - If your distributor is a "points" type" then yes, you need a ballast resistor, or 2 - If your distributor has a pickup coil instead of points then, no, you do NOT need a ballast resistor.
Here are the explanations (apologies if you already know all or some of this, & for the length). On a "points type" distributor, you have a pair of physical points or contacts that open & close, operated by a cam on the distributor shaft. This is what allows the coil to "fire off" it's built-up energy into the central distributor wire. Again, trying to keep this simple, the coil is a simple "step-up" transformer, taking your 12 volts & increasing it to something like 30,000 volts or more. When the points open, the magnetic field in the coil collapses, & all that voltage rushes out to the distributor. The points close again & the process starts all over. This happens 100's to 1000's of times a second depending on engine speed.
On a points system, a ballast resistor is in the "run" circuit from your ignition switch. Once the engine starts, it drops the voltage to about 6 volts. This is done to minimize arcing at the points (they arc with every open & close), to extend their lifespan. Arcing on points or contacts causes pitting and/or corrosion, which can increase their resistance, further lowering the voltage; not good, or possibly causing a no start/no run condition. The resistor also extends the life of the coil, since it's not handling as much voltage/current. This was a consideration with older coil design & construction (materials, etc.) BTW, there is no ballast resistor in the "start" circuit; the coil gets full 12 volts on startup.
Some car makers still used ballast resistors with the pickup coil type of distributor in the 70's & 80's; this was to lengthen the life of the coil. Most modern design coils can take constant 12 volts & live a long, happy life, so the ballast resistor is not needed. Bonus - you also get the full voltage/current to your spark plugs for more power & better fuel burn.
My research indicates that the '77 had a points distributor; this shows on Rock Auto's site. Is this what you have? The later "pickup coil" type uses the pickup coil to replace the points; it's an all electric operation, so no points to wear out or adjust. Here is what the inside of one looks like: www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=31725&p=rock&jsn=403
The HEI will work with points, but would works a ton better with a pickup coil type distributor. It looks like '78 was the first year for the pickup coil type, & was used in '79 & '80. The later distributor will fit on older 20R's; it's a straight drop in (see my vid on proper distributor installation). Rock Auto has rebuilt ones from A-1 Cardone & I recommend them. They are only about $100 plus shipping, with a $15 core refund when you send your old one (or keep the old one for a backup & let 'em keep the core charge).
As for the coil I used, I got a replacement from Rock Auto, SPECTRA PREMIUM/COOLING DEPOT C624. It's only $8, is decent quality & a year later so far so good @ the full 12 volts feed. There are a few others in the $20 range from Airtex & Standard Motor Products, somewhat better quality & are solid. I don't recommend AC Delco, Accel or any so-called "hot rod" coils; 20 - 400% more expensive for no more quality, you're paying for the name. Without knowing which "universal coil" you mentioned, I do not know if it will work or not. I'd need to know maker & part # before I could say.
Also, if you ever need one, SPECTRA makes a great replacement radiator for these trucks, & Rock Auto has great prices on them; love mine! (They do not sponsor me, they're just the best prices available).
Questions: Would really like to know which type of distributor you have installed. Is the engine original? Do you have the mechanical fuel pump on the head or electric fuel pump? Electric or water choke on carb? You've got me way curious.
Again, sorry for the length; just want to be clear & complete. If you need any other info (have a TON stored) or help just let me know. Joe.
very good video series appreciate it, I have a 1977 20 R engine with only one red wire coming from distributor which I connected to the G but there's no white wire from distributor to connect to W what should I do.
If you have only one wire coming out of the distributor, it's either a "points" style distributor, or if it is the later 1978 to 1980 magnetic pickup coil type distributor, the white wire may have broken off. If that's the case you might be able to splice & solder some new wire onto what's left of the old white wire.
If you don't know which type of distributor you have (points or electronic) take a look at this: ruclips.net/video/KNaNp2VLS1I/видео.html
That video shows you the differences inside within the first minute.
If what you have is the original 1977 points style, it will not work with the HEI module. You need a 1978 to 1980 "electronic" style distributor with the magnetic pickup coil inside. Best place (& best price) IMO to get these is Rock Auto: www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1978,pickup,2.2l+l4,1277108,ignition,distributor,7108
Some parts stores can get one in for you, & some may match the price; you have to ask about that.
Any more questions just let me know.
@@The13thSword thanks for your advice I'll check it out
Thanks
Thanks for the video! I have a 77 celica with a 20r. My distributor uses points, I only have one cable coming from my distributor. Would this still work? If so, what should be done with the single pin left on the GM HEI? Thanks
In the past I have heard & read from some that you can run an HEI module off of a points distributor, but I do not have any first-hand experience with that setup. I personally think that you can't, & that you need the "electronic" distributor that has the pickup coil in it. The HEI module is designed to work with the signal generated by the pickup coil. That signal is something like 3 volts AC (alternating current). A set of points does not generate any kind of current at all; they only act as an on/off switch for the ignition coil.
The whole idea of doing a points to electronic ignition conversion is to eliminate the mechanical points, which can wear over time & change how your ignition system performs. They are therefore not consistent over time without periodic gap checks & resetting. Since there are no parts in an electronic ignition system that are subject to mechanical wear the way that points are, it is far more consistent over time. Having to check & adjust the points is eliminated, & the signal to the ignition coil is always the same.
The electronic ignition system (either stock Toyota Igniter or an HEI conversion) also eliminates the ballast resistor for the points & ignition coil. This allows the ignition coil to be run at full battery voltage (usually 13.5 volts minimum) instead of the usual 9-10 volts that you get out of the ballast resistor. That's about 24% more power to the ignition coil. Better/hotter spark = better burn = more engine power.
I would say you need to get the electronic version of the 20R distributor (1978 to 1980) or a 22R distributor (1981 to 1984+**) in order to trigger off the HEI module the way it was designed to work.
NOTES/TIPS:
1. If you have a hard time tracking down one of these distributors, try checking for one on a 1978 & up Pickup. Sometimes parts places will charge you more $ if you say it's for a Celica, or not show it as available at all, while showing it as available for the Pickup. Both vehicles have the same engine, so the vehicle "model" difference doesn't matter.
2. I usually go with Rock Auto for parts (I am NOT sponsored by them, just my own preference & recommendation). They often have the same parts as the parts stores (& even more selection), & it's usually less $ to buy from them, even with shipping charges included.
** 3.A 22R electronic distributor is virtually the same as the 20R electronic distributor, will drop right into a 20R & function as you need it to do. You can use any 22R distributor from 1981 up to 1990. I only mention this if you have issues finding any listed for earlier years.
4. Vacuum Advance - The 1978 & '79 20R electronic distributors have a single vacuum advance diaphragm. The 1980 20R distributor & the 1981 to 1990 22R distributors have a dual diaphragm, both advance & retard.
For use on the 20R, I recommend that the "inside" diaphragm (retard diaphragm) be capped off. You only need to supply vacuum to the "outside" diaphragm (advance diaphragm) to have proper vacuum advance.
I know I've thrown a lot at you here, so if you have any more questions about any of this just let me know.
@@The13thSword Spot on! You answered the next questions I was formulating when i read your answer. Thanks! Seems like a 22r dizzy is the way. I’ll see what I can get.
@@Ed-hb5rt Glad to help out. Yeah, it would probably be easier & cheaper to get a 22R dizzy & go from there. Keep me posted.
If I mount the module in a different location than where the igniter was do I need the heat sync or can I go without it?
The mounting location of the module has nothing to do with the heat sink. The power transistors inside are constantly switching and create their own heat, and the heat sink is there to conduct that heat away from the module. Heat is the biggest killer of solid state components, especially transistors.
I do NOT recommend running the module without a heat sink, regardless of where it is mounted. I would recommend that it be mounted where there is some adequate air flow, to help the heat sink conduct heat away from itself. I've seen some people mount these in the glovebox with the heat sink, and still have problems with them overheating & "blowing out", due to the lack of air circulation.
Any other questions just let me know.
Hello need help.....I bought the two parts. But do I need to change the point distributor entirely...to a different distributor?...if so let me know what type or is there something else I need to upgrade
Yes, you need to upgrade to an electronic distributor that has a pickup coil in it. The conversion will not work with a points distributor. I recommend a distributor from a 1978 Pickup, Cardone part # 31725.
www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1978,pickup,2.2l+l4,1277108,ignition,distributor,7108
Hi, love all your videos! Very informative. I have a question about the ignition system. What is the black box mounted at the fender wall with wires coming out of it into a cylinder that’s just laying there?
I have a 72 with a 20r and can’t seem to location my igniter. Doesn’t have one that sat on the top. All I can see is the coil, resistor and the same black box that’s mounted the same with wires connecting to that cylinder. Also don’t have those green plugs. Really confused
Thank you for the compliment, just trying to help others out there with similar vehicles/engines.
The "black box" on the fender wall is the Voltage Regulator. The "cylinder" isn't actually a cylinder. It's a rubber sleeve (original stock item) that covers & protects the connector for the Voltage Regulator.
If your vehicle is still in it's original stock configuration, your '72 isn't going to have an igniter (electronic ignition module/unit), it's going to have contact points in the distributor. Toyota didn't start using the electronic ignition Igniter system until the start of the '78 model year. '77 & earlier models had the contact points system instead, so it would make sense that you can't find the Igniter, because it simply isn't there.
I assume that you are possibly looking to convert your engine from the contact points system to an electronic system? You can do this but you're going to need the "newer" model of distributor from '78 to '80 (preferably) that has a pickup coil/signal generator in it. Here are two link to the different distributors. First one is the older contact points type (like you probably have) & the second is the newer pickup coil type for electronic ignition. Comparer the two & you will see the difference.
Points type: www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28275&cc=1277041&pt=7108&jsn=934
Pickup Coil type: www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28295&cc=1277108&pt=7108&jsn=980
The two different distributors are interchangeable in the 20R, direct replacement with no mechanical mods required.
The contact points style distributor will not trigger the Toyota Ignitor or the GM HEI Module, because the contact points are only a simple on/off switch for the Ignition Coil. The Igniter or HEI Module requires a low voltage A/C (alternating current) signal to trigger, which is why you need the type with the Pickup Coil. It operates as a signal generator & will work with either an original Toyota Ignitor or the GM HEI Module.
As far as the lack of "green plugs" goes, I think that's just a model year group thing. Near as I can tell, at least for the North American market, they starting using the green plugs from 1975 onwards. The color of them doesn't matter. You should still have the two ignition power feed plugs same as mine, just a different color (possibly white?) but they operate the same.
If you look for the "+" wire that is currently going to your Ignition Coil "+" terminal, that's the one you need. Just back-track from the coil's "+" terminal & you will likely find the correct plug to use for keyed ignition power.
I hope this makes sense & answers your questions. If I can help with any other info or advice just ask. There are several key points to this conversion to make it work well and reliably, & I can provide you with that if you need it.
Thank you very much for the quick and detailed reply. If only all other RUclipsrs were this attentive and helpful. If I run into any other issues I will be sure to ask! Thanks again!
@@gusamaya2934 You're most welcome. I always try to be as complete as possible, because having to guess about certain factors to a problem only gets us into trouble. 🙂I am always monitoring my messages on RUclips, so I should be around for any questions that may come up about this conversion.
@@The13thSword I just saw your video when you dropped the gas tank. I did the same thing and I found that the plug on top of the fuel pump has two wires. Yellow/Red stripe and a Black/Red stripe. I’ve looked in the same manual that you have and can’t seem to find the second set of wires(Black/Red). Am I missing something?
@@gusamaya2934 I need you to be a bit more clear here, because I'm not sure what you mean by "the second set of wires(Black/Red)." There is no "second set of wires". There are only two wires that go to the gas tank & connect at the fuel pump & fuel sender flange.
The Black/Red is the voltage feed to the fuel pump.
The Yellow/Red is for the Fuel Gauge Sender (the sender in the tank is what operates your fuel gauge in the dash cluster).
Have a look at this link: toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/6410-1975-electric-fuel-pump-wiring-diagram/
Scroll down three posts to a post that has pictures. Click on the 3rd picture. It shows the basic stock wiring for the fuel pump, fuel gauge sender, fuel pump relay & fuel pump resistor. Your '72 should be no different from this in basic function if equipped with the electric fuel pump setup.
However, I cannot guarantee that your wire colors will be the same as mine on the '78. It is possible that there are/were wire color differences, but from everything I've seen & heard over the last 10 years or so, I'd suspect it's the same. Just trying to cover bases here.
If you have the same electric fuel pump setup, I can't really imagine it would be any different. The '72 to '78 trucks are all the same vehicle. This applies to all Hilux/Pickups sold in North America, with some minor differences. If your truck is not a North American model, there are more differences.
In any case, if you have the pair of wires at the gas tank that are Black/Red & Yellow/Red, that's all that should be there, there is no second set of wires.
Do you have a year and make of a vehicle that the heat sync fits so that I can get one at the parts store. The parts number comes back as a distributor
The part number I have for the heat sink is AC Delco 10474610. www.rockauto.com/en/parts/acdelco,10474610,ignition+control+module+heat+sink,11323
Most parts stores are not going to have the heat sink in stock on the shelf, but will have to order it in (if they even catalog it). O'Reillys says they can get it in next day. Otherwise Rock Auto has them and you can get it in 3-5 days or so.
The module I recommend is Standard Motor Parts number LX301. www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/?partnum=LX301
Most major parts stores will have this in stock, and Rock Auto has them too, & usually for less $.
PS, IMPORTANT - I also recommend a brand new ignition coil for this conversion. Don't cheap out on it either or you will have problems later; I learned this the hard way. A quality coil is vital to making this work & being very reliable. The coils made in China aren't good quality, will not last (mine barely made it 6 months) & will burn out your module.
I recommend the Standard UC12 ignition coil. Again, O'Reillys says they stock them, but Rock Auto also has them. I am not sponsored by Rock Auto. They just seem to have the best pricing & selection out there.
PPS - If you're handy, you don't have to use the AC Delco heat sink. You can use any decently flat piece of aluminum plate at least 1/8" thick & about 2" by 4" to mount the module to. Just be sure to use the packet of thermal paste that comes with the module, & spread the paste on the metal side of the module before you mount it. The paste should always be used, even if you are using the AC Delco heat sink.
Planning on doing this convertion for my 79 toyota pickup 20r. Would the Standard Motor Products UC12 ignition coil be the right coil to use? Nothing else in the truck has been converted.
Even if you were running the original stock Toyota Ignitor (Ignition Control Module or ICM) the UC12 would work with it, as it is a recommended replacement for your application. That coil also has the correct Primary & Secondary resistances to work with the GM HEI Module if you do the conversion.
If your stock Ignitor is working there's really no reason to convert it to the GM HEI Module setup, unless of course you just really want to. In either case, I recommend that you use the UC12 because it's a quality made coil. I've had cheap coils burn up the HEI modules inside of 6 months. The internals of cheap coils break down quicker, causing shorts in the windings & increasing resistance, usually in the Primary. The increased Primary resistance in a failing coil is usually what takes out ignition modules & causes them to fail. I've been using a UC12 for almost 2 years now & the HEI Module is still going & running strong.
2 other "by the way" things:
1. The ignition coil you buy may say on it "Use with resistor wire or external resistor". To the best of my knowledge, all '78 & newer 20R engines with electronic distributor & ignitor (ICM) does NOT have an external resistor, also sometimes known as a "ballast resistor". Standard & other makers just print that on there because that coil fits a LOT of different vehicles & applications, some of which have "points" ignitions with the ballast resistor. Neither the stock Toyota ICM or the GM HEI Module require the use of the resistor; just direct 12 volt power from your ignition switch circuit.
2. If you need the coil specs for testing, the stock specs for 1979 are 1.3 to 1.7 Ohms Primary, 6,500 to 10,500 Ohms Secondary.
If you have any other questions I'd be glad to answer them or help you out with any other info.
Thank you for being so informative!!
Yes, the ignitor is bad and since finding replacement part is so hard and expensive your video is VERY helpful.
Looking to buy a set of automotive wires to stock the garage. What wire suggestions do you have for the job? Best Gauge? AWG important?
@@mspuliuvea5586 You are most welcome, glad to help if I can. If you use a quality ignition coil & make sure the HEI Module has a solid ground (critical) it should work fine for you.
If you are referring to spark plug wire sets any good quality brand will do, like Denso, Bosch, NGK, Standard, BWD/Neihoff(NAPA), etc. I believe that the stock Toyota(Denso) wires are/were 7mm; most replacement sets you'll find out there are 8mm. Either works fine. I run the 8mm wires because they are the easiest to find & I have no problems with performance.
If you are referring to AWG size on the wires for the Ignition Module conversion job you shouldn't use anything smaller than 18 gauge & use stranded (multi-core) wire instead of solid core. The stranded wire holds up better to vibration over time. If I remember correctly I went with 16 gauge stranded because I wanted to be sure the wires could handle all the amps the module wanted to use & not melt the wire due to heat resistance. I doubt there would be a problem with that using 18 gauge; I just like to build in extra "head-space" in my circuits as a safety measure & for durability.
By the way, most "stock" auto circuit wire sizes are usually 16 to 18 gauge, for comparison, with most "high draw" circuits (like power to ignition coil) being 16 gauge. Lighting/accessory circuits are usually 18 gauge.
Hope that answers the question. If you need any more specific info just ask.
Further update - Ignition switch was replaced, but didn't solve all the problems. Turns out my alternator AND voltage regulator were going bad as well. It's a 38 year old truck, so you have to expect these things. At least everything seemed to "come due" for replacement/repair all at once.
The only bad news is that the bad alternator seems to have messed up the ignition module some. The Alternator was "leaking AC voltage/current back into the truck's electric system, and has caused some havoc within the module. It still runs but is doing some weird things. Like trying to stall sometimes when you put the brakes on, and the idle is still a little off. It's also mildly acting like an nearly worn out HEI does; getting worse with driving and heat, pretty common. However even with this, it's REAL close to being where it needs to be. Got another new module on the way which should clear all of this up. Since the module on there still mostly works, I'll just throw it in the glovebox for a spare.
@the13thsword hey I did this swap but I can't time my truck correctly. It starts up to about -6degrees of timing, but when I try to advance it anywhere past that it dies. Any thoughts on this? I have a 76 20r, but swapped in an 88 electronic distributor for a 22r (they fit perfectly, but the cap is bigger on the 88). I wonder if that has anything to do with it
From this info it's a little hard to pin it down specifically, but I think I know what happened here. If by "-6 degrees of timing, you mean that using a timing light, the mark on the crank pulley is showing it at about 6 degrees LESS than zero? I think you don't have the distributor installed correctly. Here is a good video about this: ruclips.net/video/u6b-vnsk5xA/видео.html
There is one piece of info that you need to know about the 20R that is different from the video, and is important to the timing, and having enough adjustment in the distributor for fine tuning.
The 20R base timing is 8 degrees BTDC (before top dead center on #1 piston), whole later 22R's have a base timing of 0 (zero, or Top Dead Center on #1 piston). What I have found to work best is to set the 20R engine at the "8" mark instead of at "0", then install the distributor as shown in the video. You'll know if you've done this right if you look at the slot in the distributor body where the hold-down bolt goes. The bolt hole should be centered in the slot.
It does not matter that you are using a 22R distributor, as long as it is a correct distributor for a 22R (carbureted), NOT a 22RE (fuel injected). There are differences between the two distributors in the 22R engine family. The carbureted version will work in a 20R, but the fuel injected version may not work, or work poorly.
Have you checked the air gap on the pickup coil? The spec for it is 0.004" or 0.3mm, to 0.012" or 0.4mm. Make sure the pickup coils hold-down screws are tight, and that the coil is not moving around.
Also, on a 22R distributor, you have two different vacuum diaphragms. The original 20R distributor only has one diaphragm.
Make sure you have your vacuum advance line hooked up to the INNER diaphragm, NOT the outer, and certainly NOT to both from the same source. The inner diaphragm is the vacuum advance. The outer one was intended to be a vacuum "retard", and is not needed on a 20R. You can leave it open or cap it's port off with a quality silicone vacuum cap (recommended).
If you check out, verify and/or fix all of the above it should work fine. If not you have another issue. Let me know what you find.
ok here is some old guy knowledge in the 70s mopar training manual it says pickup coil is 14` wide, i have found this common with a lot of mfg's. so if you set cam/crank to 7.5` & install DISTRIBUTOR perfectly strait by eyeball, when you get back to the shop " it's at 7.5` ". so for this post -6+8=14` the polarity is backwards, reverse pickup coil wires
Novice mechanic here, gonna try this conversion soon. Here's my question: did you use the coil you'd initially bought as a replacement for the stock toyota coil, or did you go with a different one to match up better to the HEI module? thanks! this video has been super super helpful.
I'm glad the video was helpful to you. I used the coil I bought** as a replacement for the original coil. The Primary Resistance spec for the '75 to '79 coil is 1.3 to 1.7 Ohms, and it will work fine with the HEI module. If you want to better "match up" the coil with the module and get a bit more spark power out of the setup, I'd recommend using an '82 to '88 coil. Those are the newer "modular" style (not like the old "can style coils), and have a lower Primary Resistance of 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms. The lower Primary Resistance allows a bit more voltage into the coil. Also, the later coil has a somewhat higher Secondary Resistance, which produces more spark power. Only possible problem with the later modular coil is mounting underhood, as it's different from the can type coils.
**IMPORTANT NOTE. The replacement coil I first bought was a China made cheapie (under $10 new), and didn't last 6 months before the Primary Resistance went way up, due to an internal short. That in turn blew up the HEI module. Ignition Coils going out of spec and developing higher than stock Primary Resistance is the #1 killer of HEI modules.
ALWAYS BUY THE BEST QUALITY IGNITION COIL YOU CAN WHEN USING IT WITH THE HEI MODULE CONVERSION. I learned this lesson the hard way & blew up 2 modules before figuring out what exactly was happening. The China coil was bad quality. Lesson - it never pays in the long run to cheap out on parts.
That said, my coil recommendations are:
Can Style -
Standard Motor Products UC12
Standard Motor Products UC12X (Blue Streak)
NGK 49030
Modular Style -
Standard Motor Products UF12
I don't recommend using an era specific AC DELCO/GM HEI coil, as they have a funky wiring/terminal setup which requires modification. If you want to mod one of those it would also work just fine, but electrically they aren't any different that the UF12 in function, and can cost more.
If you need any other specific info or help just let me know.
@@The13thSword Thanks! That makes a lotta sense. I'll just go with a coil, doesn't seem worth the trouble to try an older one. Luckily I picked up a UC12 before reading your reply so I'm gonna try that and see how it goes! Thanks again.
@@lukemaskarinec9970 You are most welcome. The UC12 is a good coil and should work for you without issue. Let me know if you run into anything I cna help you with.
@@The13thSword Awesome, glad to hear it. I do have one more question for you, regarding installing a distributor (your video on that was super helpful too!). I got an aftermarket distributor to replace my original points-type distributor, but it seems the new one needs to be hooked up to 2 lines going to the carb (?), whereas my original one only hooked up to one line. Is this something I can work around, or a whole new can of worms/parts? Thanks!
@@The13thSword Fantastic, this clears it up. Thanks again!
Greetings. Followed your video step by step. Also replaced my distributor, plugs, and wires on my 86 22R. Engine cranks and cranks but has no spark! You have any idea what may cause this?
It could be a lot of things, so pardon me for asking what may seem like some dumb questions, and maybe give you more info then you were expecting. I just want to be as complete as possible (I don't know how much you know, so I'm including as much as I can.)
Are you absolutely sure you have no spark at all? Tried grounding the main spark lead from the coil to the engine or valve cover while cranking? If you have spark on that lead, recheck your firing order i.e. make sure your spark plug leads are in the right order. Firing Order is 1-3-4-2. If distributor is installed properly, #1 should be upper left, when looking straight at the cap (from side of vehicle, NOT looking down towards the ground. If you do get spark from the coil using the above method, I would suspect a timing issue or incorrect firing order. If so, see next to last paragraph below.
If you still have no spark from the coil, the main & most common reason for it may be that your ground to the module is missing or not adequate. The module grounds through the holes with the tab that the screw goes thru. Originally on GM cars, the module mounts to the distributor, which is grounded. Just to make sure I did not have this problem, I made up a dedicated ground wire for it; you can see it in the video @ 5:12. If you DID make one of these ground wires & installed like I did, make sure there is no rust or corrosion at the contact area @ the bolt for the voltage regulator, INCLUDING inside the threads & underside of bolt head. I scraped off the paint on the inside of the fender so it would be grounded to the body for sure. If you have a long enough piece of spare wire (no smaller than 18 gauge recommended), you can easily check if this is the problem. Just temporarily run the wire from the ground point on the module to your negative battery terminal, then crank & check for spark. If you get spark, you know the ground wire you made isn't grounded properly. Solid grounding for this modification is a MUST.
Also, check ALL of your ground wires while you are at it. It's pretty common for older vehicles that have some electrical work done on them underhood to suddenly develop electrical "gremlins". You should have one ground cable or strap from negative battery terminal to passenger side engine mount, & another ground cable from engine block to firewall on driver's side. These being clean and tight are critical for the whole vehicle.
If ground is verified to be good & you still have no spark from the coil, it would have to be the power feed to the coil. Again make sure all your connections are clean & tight. If you have a volt meter you may want to check if you are getting power to the coil with the key on. If not, it could be an ignition switch problem or fuse. Also check that you did not switch the wire around backwards; it happens. Also check your ignition fuse for condition & any corrosion.
Is your battery good enough? Only way to tell is if you have a volt meter to check it; it should read 13 volts+ at rest (not cranking) & should not drop below 11.5 volts cranking.
Possibility that the distributor was not installed correctly, thus making the timing off enough to cause the symptom you describe (engine not firing). If the motor was cranked or turned while the distributor was out, then the timing would be off for sure. The only way to fix this is to remove the distributor, rotate the engine manually until #1 cylinder is at the top of it's compression stroke & (in your case) timing mark is @ "0", set distributor to correct position & re-install distributor. The best way to know when #1 is @ top of compression is to remove the valve cover. On #1 compression with timing mark @ 0, both rocker arms will be slightly loose. If timing mark is on 0 & one rocker arm is tight, one is loose, that's the exhaust stroke for #1. I have a vid on YT showing proper distributor install/positioning here: ruclips.net/video/yH9t5G0UydA/видео.html
You may want to adjust your valves while you have the valve cover off; it makes a big difference on how these motors run.
That's about all I can think of at the moment. Give these things a try & don't give up; 9 times out of 10 it's usually something simple. Let me know about your progress & if I can be of any help. Joe
Forgot to add, did you check the pickup coil air gap setting in your new distributor before you installed it? I never trust the factory on things like that. It should be 0.2 to 0.4 mm, or 0.008 to 0.016 inch. If you do not have feeler gauges you can use a typical business card, they are 0.012 inch thick, or three layers of standard copy paper, same thickness.
The13thSword cool I will look into that; any chance you remember where you got that coil bracket?
The coil bracket is the original one. The old ignitor box was mounted to the top of it with two screws, so I just made use of what I had, & mounted the HEI unit to it. I did have to do a little bending of the tabs to get it lined up but it worked. The HEI unit & heat sink does NOT have to be mounted to the coil for it to work; it just needs to be wired & grounded properly. I just put mine there for convenience.
I also had another thought about your problem in the meantime. I failed to mention that I also replaced the wires between the distributor pickup coil & the HEI unit. Over time these wires can go bad or break. It's a twisted pair cable with shielding; the shielding prevents any electrical interference of the pickup coil signal, very important in this application. Replacement I used was alarm system cable, 22 gauge wires, 2 conductor with shielding. Got 2 foot from Home Depot for less than 25 cents a foot. Spliced it into the old connector (distributor side), cleaned connector contacts, wired to HEI & works like a charm.
I have some extra lying about as well, if you might need it.
I appreciate your video series on 20R troubleshooting. I have a 20R on my homemade tracked machine and this weekend the igniter went out. I replaced the igniter and coil with an O'Reilly GM ICM and coil (the 12v type that doesn't need an external resistor) . The engine idles and revs up fine, but it stumbles and dies when it tries to return to idle. This never happened with the stock coil and igniter, so I know it isn't my wiring or switch. I was thinking of buying the exact same Igniter and coil you had on your truck to see if that would work. The parts I plan on buying from Rockauto will be the same ICM and heat sink that you got with addition to a replacement Spectra C624 coil. Does this coil need an external resistor to function? If so where can I get one? Thanks 20R guru!
Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad to help out fellow Toyota owners, even if it is just the engine. :^)
The setup I show here does not need a ballast resistor & my motor runs as well as, if not better, than on the stock Toyota Ignitor. There is no reason the conversion shouldn't work correctly, unless you did something wrong, or there is a problem elsewhere (bad/insufficient ground, fuel issue, pickup coil gap wrong, etc.)
It could also be parts incompatibility. I'd be really curious as to the brand & part number of the ICM you got from O'Reillys so I can do some research and see if it is compatible or not. As for the coil, the Spectra C624 coil is supposed to be a direct replacement for the original NipponDenso (Toyota) coil. Again, I wonder about the coil you bought & what it is exactly. Not all 12 volt coils are created equal. There are some quality differences, but the main thing in this case is that sometimes the coils resistance measurements can vary widely. This can (could) effect performance, & even possibly cause the ICM to do what you say yours is doing.
Before going and buying more new parts, I'd back-check what I have on hand first. I had to do this a few times myself to correct minor problems before I got it running sweet. Meanwhile if you forward me the brand names & part numbers of the ICM & coil you bought, I'd be glad to dig into some research on them & let you know what I find.
I bought the components a couple of years ago to prepare for the inevitable, but like a fool I didn't keep the boxes or receipt :(. The ICM has the number 8752F27B etched into it, but I couldn't get any hits off google from it. I just realized the coil is actually a Ford replacement part. It says on the side "12V USE WITHOUT EXTERNAL RESISTOR 080". Resistances measure 3.8 ohms at the primary, 9.4 kohms at the secondary. Maybe you are right, the coil is not matched correctly with the GM igniter?
I tried the new parts out, but I am receiving the same issue: ruclips.net/video/eAtUsYrh1e8/видео.html. The wiring is rigged up for testing, but I checked grounds and continuity on all connections and they are good. For some reason the ICM is grounding out at medium RPMs and deceleration (3000rpm+ and idle is fine). First I am going to do some digging on my signal voltages. The only fixes I found from people that had the same issue is they replaced the Toyota coil with a GM HEI coil. Before I do, I am going to run some more tests, last thing I need is more coils lol
I think you're on the right track here. Nice job on adding the timing light to your vid too; I can see the #1 plug signal completely cutting out. I can't see how the GM HEI coil would make any difference. All the ICM does is switch the negative on & off & any non-ballasted coil within spec should work without problems.
Have you measured/checked your pickup coil in the distributor? The air gap spec is .008 to .016; I run mine on the tight side, between .008 & .010. Have you checked the pickup coils resistance? I seem to remember that the spec is 130 to 190 ohms (cold), but can't find it in print right now; pretty sure that's correct tho. Also, how old is the pickup coil? Even Standard only warranty's them for 3 years or 36,000 miles, so if it's ancient that could also be a source of an intermittent short/grounding or resistance problem. Of course check the pickup coil cable for obvious breaks/damage & make sure terminals are clean.
Sorry, just being over-complete as usual. Taking it all in order like you are doing is best though & you seem to know more than a thing or two. :^) Only other thots I have are charging system, particularly the voltage regulator. It's still a box of reeds with contacts on them that can wear out or foul.
Last things. I noticed in your video something a little strange. When you let off the throttle after rev, the part on the throttle shaft does not immediately return, but seems to hesitate, then drop to closed, which is exactly when the stalling happens. I know that's not electrically related, but I did notice it. Sticky throttle shaft? Keep me posted please.
Thanks for the help so far! I bought some new plug and coil wires which I will try out tomorrow. I noticed I had intermittent spark on cyl #4, turns out the plug wire was arcing to the block haha.
If you have time could you check your voltage at the "C" terminal of the ICM, during idle, high RPM, and decel? I made a video which shows the "irregularity" at my terminal "C" ruclips.net/video/tlQywFNAO6E/видео.html. The 1.8 voltage drop tells me my module is grounding through the module and not the plugs, at least that's my theory. How to fix that I have no idea.
And I made my run without the igniter box I just run the points. Ballast resistor, coil, and I made my own harness
That's fine but raises a question in my mind. Were you trying to use a points distributor to trigger the igniter system? That's not likely to work. The igniter system requires a distributor with a pickup coil in it (1978 to 1980 20R or 1981 or newer 22R distributors will work).
The pickup coil is basically a signal/voltage generator that puts out about 3 volts AC, & the igniter uses that alternation current voltage as a trigger signal to turn the coil on & off.
Contact points only acts as an on/off switch & do not generate any voltage on their own.
1976 Toyota Pickup here. 20r. Do you change the distributor to a newer one? Or will the 76 work? I hear you have to use the 79 and up 22r distributor. Or IS that just a mod? Mine is a single wire from the top, not dual wire.
Thanks!
The13thSword, you're awesome.
Thanks! Just doing my part for a fellow Toyota truck owner. Let me know if I can help you in the future.
thank you for this video! im trying to get spark out of my freshly rebuilt 20r. id like to do this conversion. i have a 76 hilux. my distributor only has one wire and it runs to a resistor. the resistor connects to the igniter assy box. it doesn't seem to be working. i got a new ignition coil installed. but im not getting any spark. any advice? thank you
If you only have one wire coming out of the distributor, you are either missing a wire for the pickup coil, or you have a points style distributor. Neither the stock Toyota igniter or the GM Module will run on a points systems; it needs the later style distributor with the pickup coil. Considering you say there is a resistor, it sure sounds like a points system. The resistor is called a "ballast resistor" and is there to lower the voltage & save your points from frying out too quickly from arcing. This is not a problem with the "electronic" distributor with the pickup coil.
To verify which distributor you have, take off the distributor cap (leave the wires hooked up to it) and remove the rotor & look inside. Then compare with the following two items:
www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28285&cc=1277085&jsn=425
and
www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=28295&cc=1277108&jsn=471
Use the arrows in the picture boxes to see different views of the parts. If yours looks like the first example, you have a points style distributor. The second example is the one with the pickup coil.
If you do have points, try cleaning them up a little with a small, fine file. Points often get pitting or corrosion on them from arcing. Basically all they do is make or break contact to the ground (-) side of the coil circuit.
Let me know what you have & we can go from there.
The13thSword yes I have a points system. So could you just drop in the pickup coil style distributor? And furthermore use the Gm hei system?
It’s a brand new distributor. I see power getting to the coil(new coil). But I don’t see anything to the distributor which makes me believe the igniter assy is bad.
Thank you so much! So happy I found your videos
@@juandlcgil Yes you could do as you described with the "electronic" components. The points style distributor will NOT run an Igniter and besides, you don't need an igniter with points; it's redundant. The Igniter (or ignition module as some call it) took the place of the points in later models. This gave more steady signals to the ignition coil, and no points wear to worry about.
Or, you can run the single wire from the points to the negative (-) terminal on the coil, which will make the coil charge & discharge. I'd try that first just to see if I could get the engine to run that way, then make some decisions.
Wuld those gm modules work if you aplly positive power from baterry and pulse it with only negative wia pick up coil ore vice versa wuld it still work?
A distributor with a pickup coil, by design, produces it's own inductive current, or voltage, somewhere on the order of 3 volts AC, so the pickup coil does NOT work on battery power. It doesn't need it, it makes it's own voltage, & is NOT a part of the vehicle's battery circuit.
The module needs to have full 12 volt positive battery power & a very good ground to the vehicle's chassis or frame. The module acts as a switch for the ignition coil. The pickup coil acts as a "trigger" for the switching.
I am curious as to what application you are thinking of using this on. I have seen the GM HEI modules used on many makes & kinds of engines. If you have other/more questions about it or need further clarity just ask.
@@The13thSword ok thank you I knew they were kinde of pulse generators.
But recently I found some old diagram showing how to test 4 pin gm ignition modules with test light.
In the picture there was positive wire from baterry and it was bridged 2 terminals from the 4 pin gm ignition module I supose there wuld go a positive pulse the negative pulse wire from pick up coil was left out so the test light go ON .
Thsts how they test those ignition modules I supose.
But me problem is diferent .
I have old opel engine its based preaty much normal 80s gm car design .
It has build in destributor pick up coil and 4 pin gm ignition module the ignition coil is singel hei e core design I do have positive linear voltage regulator inside me dashboard I asume it is necesary for the coil to operate.
How ever me aplication is strange.
Because I dont have twin pick up coil for waste spark I have problem there.
I want dual ignition and it shuld be variabel in polarity .
I often experiment with me car and use diferent fuel types I often like to use amplifiers and plasma ignition as well.
So me curent circuet is polarity sensitive .
So I try to figure out how to make dual ignition useing just twin 4 pin ignition modules ore to switch a singel coil pack .
So I dont know of that pick up coil is strong enough to activate twin 4 pin gm ignition modules .
Im looking at jaguars twin coil ignition design with their gm ignition module amplifier .
Thats the basic idea behinde it.
Me engine can run at exaust stroke if engine is warm he also can run at exaust stroke singeli ore together in union.
So I realy dont have much money to spare I do habe multipel parts for the same engine.
So I must improvise some how.
I do not know if it wuld work if I use twin coils and some how stuff them in that magnetic trigger.
I dont know what to do to be honest.
That circuet shuld be variabel to some degree so I can bouth ignition modules retard and advance seperatly so Im looking some cinde of variabel resistors.
Only problem there with me idea bouth me dashboard and ignition module are polarity sensitive.
I cinde of have same problem with me starter selenoid R terminal to bypass some voltage during engine start up me fuse pops simply if I try to use that wire.
Maybe I done somthing wrong
I did not habe normal diode I used hv diode instead and swaped that thing around to see what wuld hapen but still me fuse pops.
So I have unusual problems consirning me ignition system and alternator who is a 12 si delco alternator.
When ever I use hv capacitors for plasma ignition me alternator changes its starting charge rpm from 1000rpm to 2500rpm its anoying realy only benefit car is lot smuther starter motor spin faster but flat baterry at low rpm I go fare to 300-500 rpm with me engine .
So indead I have unusual problems.
Wuld blinker relays ore other relays trigger the ignition module as well who are not polarity sensitive???
@@MechanicForGMCCars Thank you for your response & all of the extra information on your Opel application. I will try to cover some of the things you mention, but there is something I have to say first.
It sounds like you are using the Opel for experiments, which is OK. I think that doing practical "thought experiments" is a good thing. But I can't make any recommendations as to what system would be best for you without knowing what you are trying to achieve with it. If you are just trying things to see how they might work, & as an educational experience for yourself, that's fine. But I come from a place of thought where I just want the vehicle to run, & run on a reliable basis. So some of my answers below will be based on that place of thought, and those answers will tend to be more towards the "simple" side.
I just wanted to say this first to avoid any misunderstandings. If I say below that any of your ideas are not necessary, please do not take those comments personally. You certainly can do more complicated systems if you want to, it is your vehicle & you can do what you want to it. I personally have nothing against your doing that if that is what you like to do.
You are correct, pickup coils are basically a simple AC voltage pulse generator. Your HEI module test diagram may be correct, but understand it is for testing the module's operational functionality only.
We here in America have not seen a new Opel since 1975, so it is a little hard for me to know exactly how your car is wired in the factory stock form. If the positive linear voltage regulator was stock to your car, and I would not know what it's intended function would be. I would say that it is not needed for a 4 pin HEI module to function correctly. The module just needs full 12 volt DC battery power, usually fed to it from the ignition switch START and RUN circuits. It is not at all sensitive to voltage variations that are within normal operating parameters of the electrical/charging system. As long as the internal voltage regulator in that GM 12SI alternator is functioning properly, there should be no issues with the module function.
I assume the engine is a 4 stroke? In my own opinion, for a 1980's Opel engine (likely 4 cylinder? but even up to a V8), The 4 pin HEI & single e-core coil are more than enough to run the engine as well as it can run. I don't think dual coils are necessary. I also don't think you need to even think about "waste spark" The normal HEI ignition system doesn't even allow for waste spark to take place; it only fires on the top dead center stroke on each cylinder, by design. Also have a waste spark occur on the top dead center of the exhaust stroke doesn't do anything to add to performance, so it's really no a problem & not really needed IMO. The high energy provided by the e-core coil & the precise timing provided by the pickup coil/module should provide a very complete burn cycle. You only need 8K - 12K volts to fire a spark plug under compression. A typical HEI coil puts out a minimum of 30K volts, so it's more than enough for the job.
I understand you may want dual ignition, and that's fine, but it's an extra expense that you really don't need for good function. There are non-stock aftermarket HEI coils out there that put out 60K volts in a single package, so you could have dual coil voltage in a single coil, and keep things simpler. But again, I think this would be an unnecessary extra expense.
You said "That circuet shuld be variabel to some degree so I can bouth ignition modules retard." I don't think you understand how this works, so I will explain. The circuit is already variable by design. The variability of this circuit for advance & retard is NOT in the module(s). It is in the mechanical advance of the distributor & what engine speed is present, which affects the reluctor ring that induces a voltage in the pickup coil at different moments in time. The "vanes" on the reluctor ring passing by the pickup coil induce a voltage every time one of the vanes passes the coil. This is what generates your "signal pulse" to the module & this changes constantly depending on conditions. Higher engine speeds cause the distributor advance weights to advance timing (as well as vacuum advance), which changes the advance of the reluctor ring on the distributor shaft.
I don't know what to tell you about your fuse popping problem or what might be causing it. The best I can suggest is that you find a service manual for your car that has a complete wiring diagram & go by that to restore the circuits back to the stock form if they have been modified. I am not again modifications as long as it makes things work better, but the original designs are usually engineered to more than handle the job, as a reliability & safety feature.
Plasma ignition? You are very ambitious in your experiments sir. :^) I respect that, but if the modification is causing you problems for very little benefit, I would recommend that you revert back to a simpler system that just plain works.
I have never seen a relay used with an HEI module, and I do not think it is necessary. These modules only draw 2 to 3 amps, so standard wiring should handle that safely without the need for a relay. Even thin 20 AWG gauge wire can handle 4 times that amperage safely (12 amps). I use 16 gauge which is thicker & can handle more than that, just for a safety margin.
Some things I can only show you privetly ore give you link to me e book.
Perhaps that way you wuld understand why I requare special design ignition system.
Im not usual men definatly me engines are not usual at least not in behaviore.
There is a point in life when 1 singel person can not handel multipel things like :mechanics,chemistry,biology,thermo dinamics and lot other subjects.
If you like you can call it insanity ore over load.
1 person can not manage all of that even if I altedy know all this 15 years of study is long time even the best of the best can not handel evry thing be them self.
Lets just say me engine is not normal after you read me book you will understand for what Im aiming for .
But for now Im great full that you found time to write to me.
Im not realy ambitiouse thats 15 years working with GM based engines lot things are miss represented those are not normal engines definatly not when insane person like me self gets their handes to such engines and actualy make unusual experiments with them
@@MechanicForGMCCars I would not call it insanity or overload and I do not think that there is anything wrong with being an unusual man. I believe it is people such as yourself that drive this world forward. All very good. :^) I also agree that no one person can handle everything by themselves, all at the same time. That's why we have to work together to make things happen in the world. It is also the main reason for me posting my videos, to help other people out, if I can. I am grateful for any opportunity I can get to help someone else out.
You have my permission to post a link to your e-book here, no problem. I'm sure some of my viewers may find it very interesting.
does the icm have too be grounded for it to work
Yes, the module does need to have a solid ground for it to work. It grounds through the right side mounting hole in the ICM. In the video, you will see a black wire coming from the mounting screw in the right side. I grounded the wire to the bolt on the fenderwell that holds the voltage regulator. Of course I cleaned off the paint around the hole in the fender first; good bare metal contact is always best. Seems to work OK so far, but may relocate that ground wire later to a frame or engine block point. Or you could run a ground wire direct to the battery negative terminal; your choice.
RadioShack is not in business anymoreSo now where do we get it
If you can be more specific on what "it" is, I'd be happy to try to help you find a source.
I have a question?? Your 20r does not seem to have a fuel pump located on the right side of the engine block!! How do yo have your fuel pump set up ?? I have mine located on the upper fire wall next to the Windshield wiper motor and every time i start it after a week sitting the fuel pump needs to be sucked by mouth and immediately connected to the carb!!
Earlier 20R engine equipped vehicles had an electric fuel pump in the gas tank, stock setup from Toyota. Later 20R's had a mechanical fuel pump mounted to the passenger side of the cylinder head.
There are several interesting things in what you say, and some important information I want to give you, and anyone else looking at this later. There are some important safety & function things you need to know.
You say you have your fuel pump mounted to the firewall and I am going to assume it is an electric fuel pump. The first and most important thing is that you should NOT have it mounted there, it is a safety hazard. Tempuratures under the hood can reach up to 200 degrees F, more than hot enough to boil gasoline. If your pump housing is metal it can absorb that heat & cause running issues, as well as overpressurize your fuel lines. The mechanical pumps on some 20R's have a plastic spacer between the head & the pump to keep this from happening.
For operation, electric fuel pumps work best when they are "pushing" fuel rather than "pulling" fuel through the lines. That is why it is best to mount the pump as close to the fuel tank as possible, so the length of line it has to "pull" the fuel through is short. The way you have it now, that pump has to create a lot of suction through a very long line, just to get fuel to the pump. That is very hard on that type of pump and it doesn't work as well as it should.
I strongly advise that you re-mount the pump close to the fuel tank so it can work better, it is much better for the pumps operation. It might also solve you "dry" problem but if it doesn't, there are fuel line check valves you can but & install that would help that problem. The check valve only allows fuel to go towards your carb, & prevents the fuel in the line from draining back to the tank when you shut off the engine.
Any specific questions you might have, just let me know more details of what you have & I will try to help out.
The13thSword Dude you’re awesome you explained me in detail what to do I will definitely go ahead and install it below the tank and yea i have it probably running through the other fuel pump!!
@@jessepacheco02 No problem and you are most welcome. Usually drawing through the old fuel pump in the tank is not a big deal, as long as there is no debris to block the fuel pickup opening. Or as long as there are no broken impeller parts inside the old pump blocking it.
If I can help with anything else just let me know.
The13thSword ok cool idea sound like an easy job “!! But i dont have an option to use a mechanical furl pump ?? Or whats the best bet here?? I would want a mechanic fuel pump!!
@@jessepacheco02 It depends on what style of head you have on the engine. As near as I know, the only 20R cylinder head that had the mechanical fuel pump was the 1980 version. 1980 20R heads had the port factory machined out in them to accept the mechanical fuel pump. All other 20R heads (1975 to 1979) just have solid metal in this area so there is no way to mount a mechanical fuel pump. By 1981 Toyota stopped making the 20R engine & started making the 22R.
Even if I had the correct 1980 head to mount a mechanical fuel pump, I think I'd still want the electric pump. Almost all electric pumps have an impeller in them that spins to move the gas, and this provides more even fuel pressure & flow. Mechanical pumps have a diaphragm that move up & down and "pulse" the fuel through the lines.
Hey, I know this is a very old video but im hoping you can help. I will just be as detailed as humanely possible.
I recently bought a 1987 Toyota Pickup with the 22R in it. I brought it back to my place and it randomly died out 2 minutes away from my place.
Anyways, I narrowed it down and found out that its getting absolutely no spark to the plugs. I've checked from the coil/igniter - no spark either.
I had some extra money and figured a few things could be replaced regardless so I changed out the distributor, the cap and the rotor, the plugs and the wires. Still nothing. I then tested the plug that originally goes into the coil/ignitor from the wiring harness. It's getting 12v power there. So then the next likely thing I thought was that either the coil or igniter were bad. Like everyone else I couldn't find one locally and I went to the auto parts store and they quoted me $750 and a 6 week wait.
Then I stumbled upon this "upgrade"
It is all very straight forward and I've read many forum posts on it as well. The only place where im getting confused is for the "B" terminal. I understand that one wire goes from the original plug to the "B" terminal and in this video, you have the other side of the plug running to the "+" on the coil. The other posts I've seen make it seem like I run one from the 12v key on power to the "B" terminal and then splice in another wire from there and run it to the "+" on the coil. When I did it the way you did in this video, I wasn't getting 12v's at the coil with the key on and with the wire spliced into the "B" terminal and then ran to the coil, I am.
I also haven't grounded the ignition module properly yet as im waiting to go to the store to pick some things I will need to mount it in properly so that could very well be my problem.
Is there absolutely ANYTHING else you could think that would cause no spark? Any other way to narrow it down to make sure that its not something else? I've tried absolutely everything I can think of and its driving me crazy.
Any help would be immensely appreciated.
No problem, I'm glad to help when I can. But there's one thing I don't understand here. You didn't mention testing the Ignition Coil at all. That & the Igniter were the last two possibilities, but you didn't test the Ignition Coil? It's a far more likely subject of failure that the Igniter in my experience.
To properly test the coil you'll need a volt/ohm meter, and the coil needs to be entirely disconnected from the ignition circuit. That mean disconnecting anything wired up to the Positive & Negative terminals, & the center wire that goes to the distributor disconnected. If you don't do this any meter results you get could be inaccurate.
The specs for the Ignition Coil for a '87 22R are: Primary - 0.4 to 0.5 Ohms, Secondary - 8,500 to 11,500 Ohms.. All test measurements should be taken with the coil "cold", mean that it has not just been run for at least the previous hour (will explain why below). The Primary is measured by placing one meter probe each on the Positive & Negative terminals. The Secondary is measured by placing one probe on the center coil terminal, & either Positive or Negative terminal (usually doesn't matter which one, but try it both ways).
In my experience it's usually the Secondary that has problems first. Any reading on the Secondary of 9,750 Ohms or above cold and you can suspect that the coil is bad or going bad. As the coil works, it develops heat normally. With a good coil this isn't an issue. But with a weak or failing coil, that heat can cause excess resistant in the coils windings, and send it out of spec. The extra resistance can get so large that you have no spark at all.
If you don't have a volt/ohm meter to test the coil, or don't feel comfortable trying to test it yourself, just remove it from the truck & take it to almost any auto parts store (Advance, O'Reillys, Auto Zone, etc) & they will usually test it for you for free. Be sure to ask them for precise reading that they get; it's important.
If the coil tests out bad as described above, that is what may be your issue. That could also mean that your stock Toyota Igniter might still be good. Those things rarely fail.
HEI Module Conversion - 1. I prefer to have switched power from the ignition switch to provide power to the Module & the Ignition Coil. This is for safety, reliability, & to make sure the module & coil are not drawing direct power when the truck isn't running.
2. The Ground on an HEI Module is super critical to making the thing work. You could try (at the very least) just running a 14 or 16 gauge wire straight from the battery negative post/terminal to the ground point on the module for a temporary ground, & see if you get spark then. Without a solid ground there is no way the module will work.
3. If by "pick some things I will need to mount it in properly" you mean a heat sink, for certain, you'll need one. The Module makes it's own heat during operation, which it dissipates through a metal plate on the bottom of the module. That plate needs to be in good contact with an appropriate heat sink, to help conduct heat away form the module. Not doing this could result in the module "frying" in it's own heat & failing. Heat Sink - REQUIRED. Whether you use the AC/Delco part I used, a piece of aluminum flat plate, a piece of copper plate or something else is up to you. But For anything other than the AC/Celco Heat Sink I recommend that the metal plate be at least 1/8" thick & at least twice as big in surface area as the module.
Other things that could cause no spark:
1. Poor/No/Incorrect connection to the Distributor Pickup Coil. Check the terminals in the plugs & make sure they aren't dirty or corroded. Recheck your wiring - White wire to W terminal, Red or Pink wire to G terminal. Some trucks MAY have a Black wire instead of Red or Pink; just treat it the same as those, White wire always goes to W, other wire always goes to G. Closely inspect the wires going from the distributor pickup coil to the module for damage. If you have an ohm meter test for continuity in both wires to make sure they aren't broken inside the insulation.
2. Air Gap not properly set on Distributor Pickup Coil. When any one of the "splines" on the ring below the rotor is lined up in the center of the pickup coil, the air gap spec should be 0.008" to 0.016". I go with 0.012", right in the middle of the spec. Make sure the hold-down screws in the base plate of the pickup coil are tight (don't overdo this, you only need a few foot pounds of torque on them. Any more & you'll strip the threads out of your brand new distributor, so don't crank them down, just make sure they are firm.)
3. Distributor not properly installed. Even if this is so & the ignition system is working you'd still get spark on a spark tester, just not at the right time, but it's good to recheck your work to make sure it's in there right.
That should be enough for now to get you going on it again. Let me know what happens.
@@The13thSword Thank you so much for the most detailed and quick response. Very much appreciated.
So sorry, yes, I did test the ignition coil. The Primary is sitting at 1.1 - 1.3 ohms and the Secondary is within spec at about 8600-9100, I tested it a few times and it fluctuated.So I'm guessing that the primary coil has gone bad. Would it be possible to just use the round cylinder coil? for lack of better words, and just hook the igniter up to that and test that out? Because, if I could I would rather keep the stock igniter if possible.
As for the GM Ignition module, I am assuming that it is just bad ground as its not mounted at all yet, I just put a small bolt through it with a ground wire on that bolt and ran it to a bolt on the fender. I hadn't done anything permanent yet as I wanted to see if it would run first before I did everything properly but that very well might be my issue.
I will check the air gap on the distributor tomorrow and make sure everything there is good.
How would I go about testing the continuity of the wires inside the distributor?
The last question I have before I leave you, I have replaced just about every fuse I could think of. Is there any ones in particular that would not let it run or cause it to not have spark? Its very hard to find fuse box diagrams for these trucks.
Thank you once again, I will report back once I've done my testing and let you know how it turned out.
@@jordant4005 No problem, glad to help. It does sound like that coil has a bad Primary. That upper reading is like 260% above limit, and might only get worse when it heats up. It's also a little telling that it's fluctuating when you try to measure it. When measuring resistance with an Ohm meter, you ae basically sending voltage from the meters battery (usually 9V DC or less) into the circuit you are testing. It may be that even 9V is causing resistance to build in the primary windings, if they are fatigued or shorted inside the coil. Also, when you have a problem like this with the Primary side, the voltage drop from excess resistance is more severe, as you are only dealing with 12V+ from the battery (if battery is good).
To put it simply, the more the resistance in a circuit, the less voltage you have to use. By my calculations @ the spec of 0.5 Ohms on the Primary, the coil would be getting about 9.5V average. That's fine. But at 1.3 Ohms it's only getting 5.5V to work with. If it's a "12 volt" coil, that's no where near enough voltage to get a decent spark out the Secondary side, if any spark at all.
IF in fact the Primary side of your coil is to blame that's actually good news. Your stock Igniter may still be good. Igniters & ignition modules usually get "taken out" by high Secondary resistance, not Primary.
The shape of the coil doesn't much matter. What matters is if it's of good quality (*see note) & it's within spec. You can use almost any good quality ignition coil from '75 up with the HEI Module and it should work, however the later model coils have lower Primary spec, and these would give you better spark quality. overall. ALWAYS use a coil that is spec to your model year when using the stock Igniter. The Igniter is designed to work with a specific coils resistance ranges for best results.
*Note: NEVER go with an "economy" ignition coil when using an HEI conversion. I've had 2 "cheapie" coils go wonky on me within 6 months & blow up 2 modules. Never cheap out on a coil; it WILL give you headaches.
"RE: Bolt on the fender ground". 2 things. It's best to completely remove the bolt & hit the metal around the hole with some sandpaper so the bolt contacts bare metal on the surface. It would also be wise to check your body ground cable. This is usually located on the rear of the cylinder head & connects to the firewall. It could also be from negative battery post to fender wall, near the battery. All this is a part of that "solid ground" I mentioned that the HEI needs to work. That's also why I suggested that you run a wire direct from the module ground to the battery negative for testing purposes.
You probably don't need to check continuity within the distributor, as it's brand new or rebuilt. What I meant was the wires that run from the distributor to the Igniter/module.
Continuity test - Set Ohm meter to any Ohm range. Without probes touching, confirm that meter reads "OL" (means "open loop" or no continuity). Touch probes to each end of a wire you want to check. If wire is good, meter will read zero ohms or a very small amount, like 0.01. Reading above 0.01 means the wire have excess resistance & should be replaces. Reading of "OL" means there is no continuity in the wire (disconnected, broken wire, bad/dirty terminal or contact, etc.)
Fuse Box Diagram. You an easily find these on Google. Just search "1987 toyota pickup fuse box diagram". Or take a look at this: www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/cab-fuse-box-id-help-246365/
As long as the ENGINE & IGN fuses are good your ignition system should have power.
Looking forward to hearing your results.
@@The13thSword So, lots done and still no luck. I came back to ask another question regarding the HEI module. Is there anything I can do to check to make sure I am getting power to the correct places?
I hit it with a test light and have 12v to "B and C" and also the Positive and Negative on the Ignition Coil. The "G and W" terminals do not have 12v - which I believe they shouldn't, correct?
I am trying to go through everything step by step, I have set the air gap on my distributor, taken off the body ground from the negative terminal on my battery to the fender wall and cleaned the contact and stripped the paint away, I have wired up the new Ignition coil to the stock Igniter - still no luck.
I think I am going to assume that the igniter is bad as it is just easier to wire up the HEI module and continue on with that. I am just not sure where else to even begin to check.
@@jordant4005 Sounds like something is not correct in your wiring. You should not be reading constant voltage on the C terminal at all, even with the system cycling (i.e. ignition to start & engine cranking over). In a properly functioning module**, the only thing the C terminal does is supply a pulsed signal to the ignition coil, turning it on & off. When the module turns the coil off, the magnetic field in the coil collapses, causing the coil to discharge & send spark energy out through the center post.
Nothing else should be connected to the C terminal except the wire going from it to the coils "-" post.
If you are reading CONSTANT voltage on the C terminal, you either have a positive power feed wired to it, or the module had gone bad. The electronics inside the module that are responsible for switching the ignition coil on & off could be "stuck" in a permanently closed position.
It is possible to damage the module if you have left it powered on for some length of time without the engine running. So it would be wise to get the module tested.
Correct, the G & W terminals should not be reading 12 volts. If anything, they should be reading about 3 volts AC but only when the distributor is turning, as in engine cranking or running. You really shouldn't worry about that though, as the pickup coil is new & you have the air gap adjusted correctly. It should be fine.
You mention using a test light on the C terminal. How was this done & why? Is it possible that you back-fed positive voltage into the C terminal? If so you may have damaged the module. Again, get the module tested. At the very least this will either confirm or rule out the module as a problem source of the no-spark problem.
Here's the basic wiring diagram again if you need it. www.camaros.net/threads/remote-mount-hei-module.462339/
Just to be clear, notice that there is just the one wire going from the C terminal to coil "-" post. There is nothing else attached to it, & especially not any sort of positive feed.
What ever happened with the module ground-to-body/engine? You didn't mention that here. Did you try running a direct wire to the battery negative for testing as I suggested? That "bolt hole" ground on the module is critical for the module to work; it has to be there and solid.
You're going to get this figured out. Just take a moment, clear your head and go over each connection one at a time. I'm sure it's something simple.
Hey I’m looking for some help with setting this up on my Toyota 21r-u. Was wondering if I could email you if able to help! Thank you
The 21RU engine (2 liter displacement) was a factory replacement engine for the 20R motor (which has a 2.2 liter displacement), & was likely installed in your truck as a warranty replacement item. Or was an imported "used" engine, used to replace the original 20R at a later date. No Toyota vehicles intended for sale in the US market ever came with the 21EU as standard factory equipment. They were found as standard factory engines on the pickup (known as "HILUX" elsewhere in the world).
With all that said, as long as your existing distributor has the "electronic" pickup coil in it instead of the older style mechanical contact breaker points, the conversion is exactly the same as shown in the video. The 20R & 21RU are very similar in design & function pretty much the same way. The only difference really being the cylinder bore size. But the operating concept is exactly the same, and would even work on 6 & 8 cylinder engine with a distributor that has a pickup coil. The GM HEI 4 pin module I used was originally made for a GM/Chevy 350 V8. No extra work or adjustment would be required, the dwell on the module is self-adjusting. You just need to make sure the engine base tuning is on spec for it to work well.
Other areas to look for on the conversion are:
1. Having a VERY solid ground connection to the module, as described in the video. (Eyelet in one of the mounting holes is the module's ground tab.)
2. Resistance testing with an Ohm meter the existing cable that goes from the distributor pickup coil & the module. If the wire is original it could be heat fatigued & have some undesired resistance in it, which might make the module function poorly. You shouldn't have more than 0.1 Ohm or resistance in either wire in the cable.
3. Removing any factory installed ballast resistor that is a part of the "keyed power" wire, that either feeds the ignition coil or used to feed the factor "igniter". The ignition coil & module I recommend for the conversion need full battery power to work well. A ballast resistor would cut the power feed down several or more volts, so you really don't want to keep it in the circuit for this conversion.
Otherwise, the conversion on your 21RU should go exactly the same. It also works the same on later 22R engines.
What year is your truck? Are you in the US or no? Just curious. Let me know if you have any other *specific* questions & I'll help out.
Thanks for all that, I appreciate it and I am in Oregon. Do you have an email I could reach you at? I have a bit of unique setup and might possibly need to send over a photo. I recently bought a 1972 VW Bus that a guy converted to a 21r-u and spliced in the toyota engine wiring harness to Volkswagen harness. (Not 100% sure on that) He has passed so I don’t have someone to reference to. But I have replaced spark plugs, wires, distributor, coil, but still using the voltage regulator that is from Toyota and am not getting spark. I’d really appreciate the help.
Look forward to hearing from you!
@@ethandomantay4926 I recently enabled messaging thru RUclips so it is possible. Click on the "About" link on my channel page & look for a button labeled "see email address". That should work.
Sounds like quite a project so I'm not going to sugar-coat anything for you here. Since the previous owner has passed you're going to have to create your own reference from what is on the vehicle. IMO the best & only way to go after solving this is to check & test everything from start to finish. If it were me I'd start with every wiring harness splice that was made to make sure they are all well connected (or soldered, preferably), and testing each one to make sure I knew what wire was doing what. Without knowing that, working on anything further "downstream" from that could be a big waste of your time & effort. It's always best to start at the source (electrical power circuits) & go in order to the end point.
I don't mean to presume anything about your level of knowledge or experience by saying this. It's just a VERY hard learned lesson that I have taken over the years of working on vehicle systems.
Other than that, and presuming that there aren't any other issues involved, this conversion not producing spark usually has a few common causes. Again, lack of a good solid ground connection (-) to the module (most common issue). Poor power connection (+) to the module, or a ballast resistor or resistor wire in place in the power to module circuit. Or the air gap on the pickup coil is set incorrectly (too wide a gap). This can cause the pickup coil to either generate too weak a signal for the module to function, or no signal at all. The usual Toyota spec on this is .008" to .016" inch, or 0.2mm to 0.4 mm. I have mine set at .012", right in the middle of the spec, & it works well.
I'll be looking forward to hearing back about your progress.
Will an 85 dizzy work for this. I have a 76 but I obviously need a two wire to make it work. Thanks
The 85 dizzy should work. Most 20R & 22R electronic distributors work the same way.
I put this in and wired it the way you explain, but I think the coil is incorrect for this application. It’s an msd 6 gm coil. Is the resistance wrong? Should I change to a standard uc12? It won’t fire with the current coil. Thanks
I also put an 85 dizzy in. Is that the issue maybe?
@@terrytorgersonjr682 I would need to know the exact model & part # of the MSD coil you are using, but after having a look at all the 6 Series coils I could find on the web, it looks like the secondary resistance is a bit low on those. Let me know the info on that coil and any specs you have on it.
The '85 dizzy shouldn't make much if any difference, IF it is in good working order and adjusted properly. If it is used (not new) the pickup coil might be out of spec from wear/fatigue. If you test it with an Ohm meter, it should read 130 to 180 Ohms cold, if it's good. Even a reading of near 160 & up but under 180 cold could indicate that the coil is failing.
There is also an air gap adjustment for the pickup coil that needs to be correct, or the coil might nit send a signal to the HEI module. The spec for this is 0.08" (0.2mm) to 0.16" (0.4mm). This gap is measured between the center face of the coil and one of the "vanes" on the reluctor ring on the dizzy's shaft. Every time one of those "vanes" passes by the magnet in the pickup coil, it induces a voltage in the coil of 3 to 5 volts. This is what generates the "pulse" signal for the ignition module to use. Make sure that gap is set within spec. I use 0.12" (0.3mm). if the gap is too big there will be a weak or missing signal.
Make sure the ignition module has a good, clean, solid ground. This is crucial. Without a good ground the module will not function. The grounding point on it is one of the mounting holes, where you will see a metal tab as a part of the hole. I have mine grounded to one of the mounting bolts for the voltage regulator. Make sure all ground connection points are clean & tight, bare metal to metal contact. Make sure all other connections in the ignition circuit are clean and tight.
If you have double checked and verified all of this and it's correct, but the engine still won't fire, you need to look elsewhere for an issue. Weak or low battery. Bad "+" power connections or no power to coil or ignition module (verify with a volt meter)., Bad, cracked or broken distributor cap, rotor, wires or spark plugs. Fouled spark plugs. Distributor incorrectly installed. Base engine timing incorrect. Possible internal engine timing issue (timing chain, guides, broken parts etc.)
At least check out all the things I described above before you go and buy other parts. Even with the somewhat lower secondary resistance on that MSD coil, if all else is right, it should at least fire off in some way.
The msd coil resistance reads 0 ohms on negative to positive. The reading on secondary is 5.01. It's an 8202 in which their site says it needs an external ballast but it seems that it may be defective. Also the the pickup is within specs. Also getting 12v to the igniter. When cranked while using a spark tester the light is very dim and almost non existant. Grounds are all good.
Would this work on a 1978 Corona? Does a Hilux Ignition Module work with a 1978 Toyota?
If the Corona has the 20R engine in it, then yes this should work fine. It should also work on the 1.6 or 1.8 liter engine, as long as you have the distributor with the pickup coil in it. I checked for parts cross-matching on the distributor & it is the same part number for the pickup & the Corona. This is the distributor with the pickup coil in it, NOT the earlier points style distributor. Double check your distributor to make sure it is correct.
The US spec for the 1978 Corona is showing it as only being available with the 20R, so you shouldn't have any problems making this work. It's the same motor & distributor as the Pickup/Hilux. If you are outside the US & have a different engine it may still work; contact me again with your info & I'd be glad to help or give an opinion.
If you can find a working original Toyota ignitor box from a 1978 - 1980 Pickup/Hilux it should also work in the Corona (again, US spec). I did the HEI ignition module conversion for cost reasons ($13 US compared to $400 US for a new ignitor box). It works very well & is very reliable, as long as you have a good heat sink for it, as described & shown in the video.
Let me know if I can help with anything.
Awesome Thanks man!
No problem, best of luck with it!
It's been a real pain trying to find a replacement part. Everytime I save up for the part whether if it's 250 or 500 bucks I get a full refund three days later and the online store telling me the part is not in stock. I think I finnally found a part on ebay but not sure about it. I'll definitely be trying this out on my Corona and let you know how it goes. I tried at least 5 online stores and all of them advertise the part but don't have it in stock.
I know, that's why I went the HEI Module route. Cheaper & works just the same as the stock unit. The module I used was Made in USA by Standard Motor Parts, Standard T-Series Part # LX301T. (Standard Motor Products info page for module: ecatalog.smpcorp.com/STD/#/vehicles/parts/num/LX301T?type=s) GM used it on many models of 4 & 6 cylinders, 350 V8's on up to Cadillac 472 cubic inch monsters. I also used the AC Delco HEI Heatsink part # 10474610 (less than $20 & available everywhere, & CRUCIAL to the modification working right & lasting a long time. See vid.) The stock spec coil will work with the conversion.
Here's another online info source on the conversion: bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?topic=85514.0
If you are still trying to find an original type - 1. Be careful with Ebay; if it's showing as coming from China it's a coin flip on whether you will get the part or not.
2. The only new one I've seen for sale is on Oreilly Auto Parts website; I don't know if you have Oreilly's near you, but they are showing it as available to order in store, or call the store to order, & then pick up at the store. It's showing as not available for "ship to home." Oreilly Part # 14-0231. www.oreillyauto.com/
3. If you want to take a chance on used you may want to call Jim's Used Toyota Truck Parts (website - yodajims.com/) They've been pretty good to me in getting parts for the truck (exhaust manifold, gas tank, neither of which is available new) & they might have the igniter module. The '78 truck one should work on a '78 Corona with the 20R; it's the same setup.
Let me know how it goes when you get to it.
@The13thSword did you use a ballast resistor?
No. A ballast resistor is not needed for this setup, and should not be used. The Standard Motor Parts UC12 Ignition Coil is a 12 volt coil and will work just fine with full system power. The resistor would only reduce the voltage to the coil, resulting in weaker spark.
Also, depending on wiring, a ballast resistor might reduce voltage to the module, which you absolutely don't want to happen. The '75 to '77 20R used contact points in the distributor, and there was a ballast resistor in those system to prevent large arcs at the points, to make them last longer. The HEI module basically replaces the contact points, so there is no need to limit the voltage to reduce arcing, as the module has no physical "points" in it to arc.
Bottom line - if you are converting a points system to the HEI system, you will need a '78 & up distributor with the pickup coil in it instead of points. And you need to get rid of the ballast resistor. Just connect the two wires that went to the resistor together.
@@The13thSword thank you! Most coils refer to using one. And all say use with resistor. Thanks again!!
@@mexicomove225 The manufacturers print that on the coil in expectation that you might have an original ignition setup, with the points & resistor, and more as a reminder to test the resistor while you're in there. You can safely use the coil at full voltage with no issues.
If I can help with anything else just let me know.
@@The13thSword thanks again! Ordered a module and 2, UC12 Standard Motor parts coils.
@@The13thSword one more question,
recommended spark plug gap?
Currently installing a gm to Toyota distributor get that and throw all yhis extra crap out!!! Will work in a pinch but in my exp not for the long run
My conversion has been going trouble free for over 3 years now. Many others have done this conversion and have zero issues. Perhaps you didn't set it up correctly.
@@The13thSword you are one of the few like i said it'll work in a pinch might get ya out of the woods a lot simpler to install the right dist cut the middle man out of the circuit so to speak and throw all this crap in the tool box for emergency's
Did you have to shave the black tabs that are on the standard hei coil so it would make contact with the heat sync completly?
Very observant of you. :^) Yes, I did shave off the two round tabs or pegs on the module, because it wasn't going to fit the way I wanted it to (180 degrees rotation to normal. I also used a hacksaw blade to cut off the inside "fin". All this because I wanted the connecting lugs in a certain orientation. In hindsight, I should have just mounted the module normally on the heat sink , then rotated the entire module/heatsink unit.
I have a 79 3/4 ton with a water choke r 20 but it'd back fire and due when going through 3rf gear wait till clean and start again now it's random if it does any suggestion I got the weber carb and erg smog delete any suggestions
@@ablepainting8286 OK, a few things that need to be cleared up. This only happens in 3rd gear? I am not sure what you mean by "wait till clean then start again". Did you mean wait until it cools off instead? If it's random it could be several things.
Is the distributor original? It could be worn or out of adjustment. How about the coil? Original? Have you resistance tested it? What kind/brand of coil is it, part number? How old are your rotor, distributor cap, spark plug wires, spark plugs? Are your ground cables tight with clean connection?
Let me clearly know about these things then I can offer some better suggestions.
Yes new cap, wires, plugs, rotor, distributor, fuel pressure regulator, and Guage, new vacuum lines new muffler, almost every thing except exhaust headers! But yeah once it'd be getting warm and reved up bang die cool off start again I am doing the hei ignitor module today
@@ablepainting8286 Thanks for the info but you still didn't mention the ignition coil. Is it old or new. When ignition coils age, they can develop some higher resistance in the coil windings due to heat. This is caused by metal fatigue of the wire in the windings, from repeated heat cycling under the hood. This can reduce spark energy output, or even cause a non-firing condition, which can be sporadic. Even a coil that tests in range cold can have this problem, so it's usually best to just replace it with a new, quality coil.
If the ignition coil has gone bad in that way, it can damage the module as well. So it's always best to replace both items when you get these symptoms.
This can also happen with the original ignition module (ignitor), and sometimes with an older distributor, but yours is new. The only other thing to check with the distributor is the air gap space on the pickup coil inside, and making sure the pickup coil set screw is tight so it doesn't move. The air gap spec is .008" to .016". I have mine set at .012" and it works fine.
Fuel pressure regulator - Make sure you have it set at no more than 3 PSI. The Weber carb doesn't like any pressure beyond that or it likes to flood out.
Ground cables can also get that metal fatigue as described earlier, and that can develop some extra resistance. If your battery to engine ground cable is black with a yellow stripe, it's original, and you may want to consider replacing it. You can always test it with an Ohm Meter end to end. Cold, it shouldn't read anything above 0.2 to 0.3 Ohms. My new ground cable reads less than 0.1 Ohm resistance. Also make sure the connections are clean & tight at each end. There should also be a second ground cable, between the rear of the cylinder head and the firewall. It's best to check that one out thoroughly as well.
Check all other connection to the ignition system for looseness, corrosion, dirt, etc. and fix them as you go. The HEI Module will also need it's own solid ground to work correctly. It grounds through one of the holes in the module. You'll see a metal tab on one of the holes, that's the ground point. I have mine grounded to a bolt holding my voltage regulator. Any good, clean grounding point will do. You can also run a ground wire for it direct to battery negative if you want to, but I recommend using nothing smaller than 14 gauge wire to do that.
That's all I can think of at the moment. Message me again with any other questions, and/or let me know how the job turns out for you.
Mine still has points
Thank you for this
Gotta 78 Toyota gypsy camper,
Same problem, left it with a fix it guy, for over 2 years and he can make a newer car work great, but knows nothing you are explaining...
REDICULICE!!!
You are most welcome. The problem with some of today's mechanics is that they are only "parts replacers." Diagnosis is becoming a lost art, and many do not even understand how systems work. They just replace parts the computer says is bad, without even knowing what about the part/system has gone wrong.
Just doing my part to keep these older trucks running & glad to help.
Heat sink compound = thermal compound. Same thing.
And don't forget the oldie but a goodie - Thermal Grease. :^)
Howdy; finding myself in need of this conversion for an '83 22R. Could you tell me the part number or specs for the ignition coil? I'm planning to use this ICM www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=97460&cc=1297111&jsn=1707 with this heat sink www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=96237&jsn=1705. Can you tell me what the compatible coil would be? Thanks for your video!!
Also, where did you source the bracket that holds the coil and heatsink all together?
I would recommend the STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS (SMP) Part # UF12: www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=47730&cc=1277197&jsn=887&jsn=887
SMP parts are very good quality & reliable and cost much less than original Toyota parts. I have double checked the Primary & Secondary resistance specs on this coil and they are compatible with the GM HEI style Module.
CRITICAL: Buy a good quality coil! I initially bought cheaper ignition coils (China Made) and they did not last more than 6 months, and fried the module as well, due to developing higher resistance than spec in the coil. I have been running an SMP coil for over 2 years now with no issues.
Standard also makes a very good module, the LX301. I have nothing against the AC Delco module, only that it costs more than the SMP part. The heat sink is very much recommended to use for this conversion; but you may have to modify it a bit as I did to fit the module to it. Be sure to use the thermal paste that comes with the module, between the metal plate of the module & the heat sink.
CRITICAL #2: The Module MUST have a clean & solid ground connection to the body or frame to work correctly & reliably. This seems to be the most common issue on conversions. I would also use a meter to do a resistance test on the battery negative terminal to frame/body ground strap or cable. As that item ages it can develop excess resistance, and given the age of these trucks, it's often worth replacing with a new one. You can spot a Toyota original as they are usually a black cable with a yellow stripe. Any resistance reading end-to-end higher than 0.1 Ohm replace it. I recommend 4 AWG Gauge cable or thicker for Battery Negative to Frame/Engine Block Ground. There is also usually another ground cable from the Cylinder Head to Firewall; this is a good time to check & clean that as well.
Final Tip. You may want to check the wires that go from your Distributor Pickup Coil to the Ignition Module. Again, these wires can develop excess resistance over time due to heat stress/cycling. The Pickup Coil generates less than 3 volts AC so any extra resistance or breaks in the shielding could cause the system to misfire. There is no direct replacement available from Toyota, but I made my own new harness from 2 conductor shielded alarm/security cable, like this: www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-By-the-Foot-22-2-Gray-Stranded-CU-CL3R-Shielded-Security-Cable-57572199/204725140
The cable is flame retardant, rated to 221 degrees F (105 C), the 22 gauge wire inside is more than enough to carry the signal, and it's shielded to prevent any misfires from spark plug wire interference.
Anything else I can help with just let me know.
@@The13thSword Thank you. Great tips! I was looking at the canister coils but if the UF12 mounts to my old stock defunct ICM then I can make that work. I'll take your advice on the LX301
@@michaelrausch7269 I am running the SMP UC12 canister coil, and so far so good, 2 years no probs. It does have a higher Primary Resistance than the modular style UF12 but it does work. The lower Primary resistance of the UF12 should in theory give you more spark power on the Secondary side of the coil. It's basically up to you which way you want to go on it.
Dude get some nail clippers, nice video except for the claws
For about the 10th time now, what's the problem? They are healthy, don't get in my way, and in all reality are my own business what length I want to have them. I fail to understand everyone's pre-occupation with the length of my nails. It's really no one's business but mine.
Have this set up on my 83 sr5 let me tell all you guys it ain't worth a SHIT
Such a positive comment.
@@The13thSword lol just my experience is all
Someone crying cause they probably went the lazy way 😂
@@jonhromeo6108 not at all used what I had in a pinch and that's about all it's good for temporary fix