Would you like to ask Dr Starkey a question? If so please join his Members' Club. Patreon Members' Club: www.patreon.com/davidstarkeytalks Subscribestar Members' Club: www.subscribestar.com/david-starkey-talks To make a donation visit www.davidstarkey.com Channel store shop.davidstarkey.com Thank you for watching.
@@colinlavelle7806 It's perfectly reasonable for anyone to be rationally skeptical and wholly unsympathetic to the Roman Catholicism without necessarily being as you try to imply, merely a bigot. My own entirely negative experience of the Roman Catholicism have arisen largely from direct and intimate personal contact, (though an atheist myself, I was nonetheless briefly married a Roman Catholic woman; by then already divorced once and with 3 children from her first marriage and by now on her third or possibly even her fourth husband ?) That alone even without those wider social, historic and political issues; endemic financial and other corruption, (including money laundering, etc...) and the widespread sexual and other abuses perpetrated by Jesuits and the other orders in France, Spain and Ireland, (where the mother baby homes were especially nasty example,) and the appalling historic abuses, (The Encomienda, etc...) throughout the New Word. Most people of any normal sensibility are both utterly disgusted and repelled by these events and perhaps even more so by the profound hypocrisy that has always facilitated and legitimatized such behavior and even perpetuated it, ("do what we say but ignore what we actually do ?"). The condition of the Roman Catholic Church at the beginning of the 21st century is not a pretty sight, but then really it never has been.
Give this comment a thumbs up if you can listen to Dr. Starkey for hours. I know I can! I’m beyond thrilled Dr. Starkey is back and created this channel; I’ve binged all he’s posted thus far and joined his Pateron. He deserves it!
I am over the moon that Dr Starkey is back! It was SO upsetting that they tried to cancel him. Well the joke is on them. He’s bigger and better than ever!
He seems to be a lot more accessible to ordinary people. RUclips channel and patreon account etc. I’m delighted to be hearing his research and analysis too.
Well he probably should not have said what he did... I would never publicly disrespect the gay community. Dr Starkey is gay right? I adore him his lectures and documentaries are amazing. We might have an opinion about things but when you are in the public eye it's about being responsible on what you are saying.
I'm not sure about any gay slurs, but the commrent for which he was (rightly, in my opinion) publically lambasted was about slavery. Slavery was not a genocide "otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain would there? An awful lot of them survived."
It has to be said that the technical production is very professional - clear sound, framing, the fact that there is more than one camera etc. Well done who ever is responsible. And that goes for the talks from hs home. Well done whoever is responsible for those as well.
The sound is not ideal, sorry to correct you. There is quite a lot of wet noise, (echo) though as the locale is so resplendent I can overlook that. Conversely, the trend for dry (close to the mic) sound can be rather unnatural.
Thank you so much for this lecture, Dr. Starkey. I feel moved by Catherine Howard’s sad life & fate. She was not clever or careful enough for the treacherous Tudor court. She was temperamentally “un-royal” by nature, and she was raised very poorly by a neglectful family.
Not the only one, if I may, but yes, certainly one of a few. He does seem to know what to present and how to present it to make history more relevant and interesting.
Even if I learn one thing from this beautiful lecture " History is a dialogue, not a monologue" , i would feel extremely happy. Thanks a lot, Dr Starkey. 🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
I have just found this channel and how very grateful I am. This man is a national treasure to the Brits. Where has this historian/storyteller been all my life. So bloody interesting.
Documentaries on Henry’s six wives spend too much time on Catherine of Aragon & Anne Boelyn, and skim over the other four rather fast. It’s refreshing to see a video focusing solely on Catherine Howard; just when I thought I knew a lot about her, I learned so much more from this, particularly about Cullpepper, Mannox and Lady Rochford. Bloody brilliant, Dr. Starkey; keep ‘em coming!
Such an enlightening take. Great lecture. And soooooo well said with, "There all sorts of things we will never know the answer to. The most honest thing we can do is say so." So important, yet so underused in the quest for and sharing of knowledge.
Good another one. I love all to do with Tudors & Stuarts having studied them so many years ago. The way Dr Starkey explains the way houses are set up, is so easy to see how things were like in 1500s!
so happy to see such high quality content from David. Everyone please make a donation if you can. Really hope to see a video on Walsingham in future from David x
@Jay Paul I couldn’t agree more. I just joined his Patreon and he’s got some locked videos over there so if you can, check it out! This man deserves it. I can (and have) listen to him for hours!
Couldn’t agree more, @Martina Drempetic. I can (and have) listened to him for hours; I own his documentaries on The Wives of Henry VII and the four part series on Elizabeth I. I likely can narrate them at this point. I’m thrilled about his new channel, but also happy someone did an entire hour on just Katherine Howard. So many documentaries and historians who do videos on Henry and/or his wives spend much time on Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boelyn and gloss over the rest. I learned a great deal from listening to this, and in fact, am going to listen for the second time now!
Another enlightening talk from Dr Starkey. I've had the pleasure of attending Dr Starkey lectures three times over recent years. Immense knowledge, and imparts it so skillfully. So engaging and riveting. We are so fortunate that he is continuing to talk!
I adore Dr. Starkey. I’ve ingested every bit of the various documentaries he has participated in over the years to the point where I know what he is going to say next. He’s captivated me for years. I didn’t know he had a channel here, so Merry Christmas to me!
Dr. Starkey, you sir are a breathe of fresh air! I admire the way you deliver your knowledge to us all, and have always enjoyed your work!! This Channel is my favorite on RUclips! Thank you so much!
No better way to make the time at work go by than to listen to Dr. Starkey. I’m over the moon about this channel, and cannot wait for more. Just joined his Patreon!
Hello Mr Starkey, I love history. Needless to say, I thouroghly enjoyed watching this presentation on Katherine Howard. Since we live in these terrible times of Covid and Woke, I find myself trying to make sense of what is happening. I keep watching your interview on the New Culture Forum. With all due respect sir, we need to hear more from you on what is happening. We are living the most dangerous historical times and white hair or not, I feel we still have an obligation to do our part to preserve the great legacy of Western civilization. Simply put, your brain, great knowledge, experience, wisdom, intuitions are needed and required. Resistance against Woke madness is building up. Strangely but not entirely surprising the black intelligentsia (Thomas Sowell and others) in America is coming to the rescue. You are needed.
..when i hear that pseudo edicated anti woke babble of yours i am also happy pur Generation with all its benefits leaves slowly. You sound more like Trump than Sokrates in some parts also.
@@herzkine The great thing about death is it comes without warning mostly. Be careful what you wish onto others, it may just boomerang back to you faster than you may wish for. I worked hard for my benefits are you? Or you just prefer to whine while waiting for it to fall from the sky while dreaming of Utopia? How romantic. Why not believe in fairies too? Is autocorrect too educated for you? not pseudo woke enough?
I love all of his lectures as well as his documentaries e.g. Elizabeth, The six wives of Henry the VIII, Henry the VIII; The Mind of a Tyrant, Monarchy...all of them are so well written and presented.
Just love this lecture! Catherine Howard was far more a complex character than being pigeon holed into a dumb party girl or an totally naive victim as she was historically portrayed! I think she had not been long enough at the Tudor court to realize that nobody was safe from the ax, and acted that she would always have Henry on her side!
I am a giant history nerd. Huge. I've watched almost every video featuring David Starkey. Read several of his books. He tops my list of favorite historians (evidence of the history nerd to have a list of favorites) so I'm thrilled by both his home videos and his lectures. Next best thing to actually studying under David Starkey, which would be one of my greatest wishes! What a wonderful channel, and hours of information. Makes this nerd's heart sing!
Deeply disappointed in the way Catherine Howard is portrayed here. She must have been extraordinarily brave to marry a monster like that King, then to be butchered mercilessly by Henry’s psychos….what a nightmare for any girl.
So wonderful to see Dr Starkey back! And so sharply dressed too. So distinguished and knowledgeable. Shame on cancel culture for attempting to silence a legend of history.
Shame on someone as supposedly smart and educated as Starkey, for his absolutely disgusting comments about colonisation and the trans Atlantic slave trade.
@@UnapolegeticallyAProblem An eminent, well respected historian who is a legend in his field, researches meticulously for decades, but woke little YOU disagrees? You’re entitled to your opinion however Dr Starkey’s is based on fact, not emotion or a particular victim hood mindset. Perhaps YOU should research more and free up your closed mind? Just a thought ( pretty sure you won’t and will simply hurl unpleasant invective with anyone that disagrees with you *sigh*).
Henry’s most forgotten and unfairly judged Queen. So wonderful to see Starkey talk about her given even in his own book on Henry’s wives and the accompanying channel 4 documentary, plenty of interesting things about her get left out.
Without being a judge on the matter , l can't help but think that , how did Catherine Howard ,possibly think she could get away with her unfaithfulness to King Henry , given the strictness of the day and what was instore for those who broke the rules.
@@jenniferharrison8546 Thst is a very interesting question you pose. I too often have thought of that, given she’s likely surrounded by her ladies at most times. I wonder if Lady Jane Rochford helped her facilitate her romps with Culpepper or Derham. What do you think? So excited about this channel and to engaged in discussions with likeminded people such as yourself.
@@jenniferharrison8546 Well, one of the points he makes in the lecture is that at Horsham when she was a ward of the Duchess she was never disciplined properly for her promiscuity or for facilitating such activities amongst her peers. Therefore, she learnt that rules are things that can be broken and authority is something that can be bypassed. What I'm more amazed is the the Duke, knowing what happened to his other niece, encouraged the king's courtship knowing she was damaged goods. That was being blinded by greed.
..He still comes to the conclusion she was just a dumb little fun loving simple girl. Which may be very true, i dont know better sources than him atm :-D
I love how Davis always links the past to similar modernism. Humans haven't changed much throughout the ages, same motivations and dreams. Not stuffy old history but alive and relevent. I truly believe this is the whole formula behind "learn from history or you are doomed to repeat it." We can't help it, we are the same beings underneath just in cleaner clothes.
I love this idea of comparing then and now. The older I get, the more I see the parallels between current events and personalities and things I’ve read about in the past.
“Historians are only as good as how they do history…they’re only as good as how they write.” And here we have the best. Bar none! Fantastic lecture, surpassing his own TV series on the wives. Who knew that we know more about Howard than any of the others when she gets a paragraph at most in most histories?
I’m watching this fabulous lecture while handing out candy to Trick-or-Treaters in San Diego, CA on October 31, 2022. So apt when the light insult to our American Halloween spreading to the UK was mentioned. This man is an International Treasure!
You're my favourite historian as well.....great minds;-))) What could be better than your set lecture? Your question period. That's when you really get going. I won't be able to join your private group - times are tough in the Canadian art world, but I will continue to follow you with an avid art historian's interest. I agree with you about the Boleyn drawing. I've always felt that that was the only remaining image. Poor girl had a goitre. I suppose, a lack of iodine. Fortunately we now have iodised salt - but not too much - high blood pressure, don't you know ;-)
My Lord Starkey advocates the presentation of history thus: "Facts Taught with Passion" ... given his sumptuously compelling lectures, who can gainsay him?
Lynn Frederick played Catherine once in a film... it was only about 20 minutes of screen time but she really brought home that she was just a child, and a scapegoat of forces outside of her control.
I love that he essentially says that he was able to read an inscrutable text, because he got absolutely hammered at lunch while on holiday in France.. how many times have we been able to understand things when smashed but not when sober 😂 fair play
I’m lucky enough to know Dr Starkey and regularly get to question him on the great matters affecting our world…and I love it because he’s as brilliant in real life as he is here. His knowledge is forensic, his explanations are always enlightening. So glad he’s started this channel-this is what RUclips should really be about.
Much more interesting than my founding father's wives. Except for the brilliant and persevering Abigail Adams, of course. On another note, the way you weave in relevant references such as the view of the reformation and subsequent church really helps to frame the historical context. I also think you nailed Boris. There is a term for people who invite conflict around them for potential manipulative use. But I can't remember if it is narcissist or coward. Ha!
Weirdly I find Catherine Howard to be one of Henry's most interesting wife - maybe because we know so little about her in comparison to his other wives. To me her history is very tragic and its a reflection of how bad things could get back then for women who dared to explore their sexuality - or in Catherines case they could also be punished for being molested ( she could not consent to sex with Mannox as a 12 year old girl, come on).
12 years old is an adult in those times. It's hugely about rank then. Had he molested her she would know very well he could be imprisoned as her station would be etched into her mind from birth. As he said, they didn't have sex but he touched her. She was naive though and ill prepared for court, let alone to be queen.
Agreed, I loved the lecture, but EVEN taking into account different sexual mores and views of "adulthood" of the time, and the fact that Catherine was technically of higher stature than Maddox, I still don't agree with dr Starkey's assessment of what happened there. I do think Catherine was probably quite insouciant and possibly not very clever by nature. But it's quite clear that she was also neglected by her grandmother and the rest of the family and encouraged/pressured to become sexually active by the atmosphere of the girls' chamber. Seeing as Maddox told on her to her grandmother after she ended with him, he comes across as quite vindictive (maybe "the nice guy" type?). It's not a stretch to think that he pressured her into sexual activity before she was ready for it. He could've easily manipulated her by saying things like "you'd let me do it if you really loved me", "I'm being so nice to you and you won't even let me do anything" - this is still commonly seen to this day. Catherine most likely WAS used by him, even if she didn't realise it herself and even if she was a fun-loving girl by nature. And of course what he did to her could have affected her later relationships with other men. But even if it didn't, we shouldn't just assume that her later indiscretions are enough to make her responsible for her own abuse when she was younger - again, something that we still see in modern society and courts, even when it comes to very young women! I think any woman who was touched against her will or otherwise harassed or abused, especially at a young age, would be able to easily empathise with Catherine here, and unfortunately I think in this case dr Starkey is showing a lot of implicit bias both as a man (who doesn't have that experience) and as a person of a certain age (who forgot how easy it is to be emotionally manipulated when you're a young teenager). This is rather forgivable in the sense that he obviously can't change who he is, but I'm really glad that we also have other scholars who present a more nuanced look at this situation. (Can't help but feel that his view of Henry's other wives is also quite harsh and unforgiving, as if he took at face value reports from sources written by people who also had their biases, and wasn't able to imagine what it would feel like to actually be in, say, Anne Boleyn's shoes when she was being pursued by Henry. Not that I think they were all wronged angels - of course they weren't. They were imperfect humans. But doctor Starkey almost makes them into some sort of cold scheming machines). Having said that, again, I did enjoy the lecture and found it very informative, and dr Starkey's delivery is of course top-notch! Ooops, quite an essay I wrote here! ;-)
@@AW-uv3cb agreed and even 12 was considered very young to start a sexual relationship. A girl could marry young but even then they didnt consumate the marriage until mid to late teens. She was manipulated by him and groomed. She had no guidance and was ill prepared for royal life especially at the tudor court.
Oh, Mr. Starkey! For years, or since I’ve become fascinated with British history and Henry the VIIls reign….. (Being a American myself, raised by prominent British grandparents from Northamptonshire, who had some of the most notable education if I may say so, my daily life was more British than American but now that I am grown and they’re gone, I realize how much I’ve taken for granted and feel something when I learn from you that’s familiar but ANYWAYS!) Before I lose my train of thought trying to convey everything and make sense, my point being is I couldn’t agree with you more when it comes to your perspective on what Anne Boleyn would have looked like. I so very much appreciate your passion and dedication to these particular times in history and making it as factual as possible! You’re my favorite historian too. 😉 Thank you! 🙏🏻
This is so interesting. Looking through time at the lives of these people in detail. Appreciate all the work done transcribing letters and scripts - no easy task. Dereham was a relative of mine so this adds to the intrigue.
I hope I can get your books, unabridged, on Audible now, Dr. Starkey. I wasn’t even aware you you had written any non-academic works, I must have them. After a lifetime of lugging around far too many heavy, bulky, dusty books, all my new book purchases are digital, and, ideally, recorded, ones. I read so much my that my arms ache as I get older, I love to just pop my iPad on its stand and listen, instead.
I agree, I adore my books but when commuting its not convenient to carry them around, on top of the fact they get damaged very easily. I'm still waiting for the Six Wives on kindle so fingers crossed
Thank you Sir for a fascinating and inspiring talk, what evidence can do , together with a narration that you gave, David Starkey that i feel like my imagination has being fueled and, this good old fashioned thing of, a informed imagination feels stimulated again. Wonderful talk Sir. Imagination through ink and paper, through the very physical world around me, that I can explore, like I did before, in the 1980s. Now , is becoming different. The information which I found slowly in 80s, in a natural human way, somehow gentle comforting ( but sometimes not atall happy or good but human), I can't think of the correct word exactly, but it was definitely different, very different ! Now , the same information a fast frentetic pace about it, this needs to be accessed through, the ( strangely mesmerising Merlin Magic Box obsidian stonelike device of the) , smart phone, or the screen. At least being, concerned with simple things a a kid i , never really noticed or payed much attention to modern things, accept those that were probably around even in the 1920s and 30s. The strong closeness with nature, reality. Yes film and casette players , but these didn't intrude much on my mullying around, feeling very close to past. Wandering into little tiny country churches, imagining the people in past times. In Victorian times, how they ate root vegetables through the winter and the joy the must have felt gorging on the apples and wild berries in the summer, sewing listening to my mum and granny talk of sewing and things, my mum and granny even made alot of my clothes as a child. The Tudor the Roman and Greek , seemed somehow on days, just the blowing of a dandelion seed head away. Imagination, of fighting the wolves from the sheep shielding the village. The imagination of hiding away in the forest or somewhere for believing in the wrong religion, imagine being taken away to a workhouse, somehow in the 1980s these things, with a childs imagination seemed very close, and i felt very close to those that came before me. Now, with computers it should be easier to see the information of a photo of evidence, but somehow i wonder if the feeling of closeness to the past and the reality of ,the simple chance we could be there rather than here, and what exactly all the possibilities of the person we might have been, is becoming suddenly quickly harder, for us to imagine, as new devices pop up. I loved hearing you speak about your favourite memories from your work , I love to listen to people talk of things they have experienced and loved. Sometimes it hard to describe, and put into words subtle thoughts and I know its hard to articulate the subtle, one thing thats wonderful today is being allowed to express things. When I hear you speak about some of your favourite memories, I hear these vivid memories are formed somehow as a peek, as the mystery gets discovered or solved , in this kind of meeting of your knowledge, hard work, hope, and imagination tangeling together with the physical jewel of the actual tactile nature of the paper, the ink from oh so long ago, the miraculously persevere parchments paper. Almost like a story in itself, the adventure of it all. I feel how firstly , how important it is to have both a creatures the physical world of paper, ink, people, love animals. Secondly the reality of human imagination, friendship freedom, positive old fashioned laughter, dreaming, atmospheres, mysteries, helping each other become happy healthy useful. Thirdly the modern world and hope in the future, gratitude for innovations. Using the wonderful inventions as best we can, and see loved ones shine with the genius of computers and the possibles to have large inclusive friendship groups, and learning that wouldn't have been possible before, work, . So again Sir i am grateful for your lecture about a Queen and a woman that i find very relatable, and for stimulate me thinking about the good things and the difference between now and then, ,information and simplicity , thanks 🌷🌸⚘🐴 !
Thank you, you very much brought the subject alive. I did a little genealogy a few years back and there certainly a rather strange thrill of seeing documentation that shows original information, signatures or in some cases the X signature of your relatives, of course not the ORIGINAL ... but the online version of copy. Always fascinating to listen to you. Thank you.
This is a subject that I would love to hear more about. I know there is such a short time between the marriage and her execution that there is, doubtless, less information to gleam from. But should you find a peculiar sub-plot, perhaps you could speak about this in greater detail. I very much enjoyed this lecture and I’m enjoying your series online. Thank you very much, Dr. Starkey.
Very informative and interesting take on Catherine's downfall. I do question whether Catherine was "in control" in all of the relationships she had. Certainly at age 12 when her music teacher sexually touched her, historians can't agree she was in " control" as she was a little child. This was clearly sexual abuse by an older (and married) teacher. Sexual abuse can lead on to feelings of low self worth and perhaps as Catherine had "done it before" and men knew about this, she was easily persuaded by Dereham and Culpepper to engage in a physical relationship. Perhaps she was a easily manipulated and vulnerable person. Sometimes I think not having a proper female older role model and a present father in her life, to give her advice and protection made her do frivolous things and made her prey to sexually aggressive men. The price for losing your virginity, pregnancy and lose of reputation was extremely high in those days, I do wonder why Catherine didn't seem to see the consequences. On the other hand Catherine clearly loved the attention and no doubt the sex with Derham and Culpepper, who, I believe she was in love with, but there are always many sides to one story. She was very young and when we are young we can be frivolous, manipulated, make bad decisions and act without thinking.
I don't disagree with your analysis, as I think it is a difficult endeavor to judge how much control over their situations a person who lived so long ago in a different culture and circumstances had, and as a female when, for the most part, women were subjugated with few rights. It is always a challenge to be able to disregard our current beliefs and culture when judging the acts of people in the past. In that regard, I hesitate to use her age too much to explain her behavior, as our current concept of a 12-year old's maturity (and life) is different than what it was in the of a 16th century. Henry VII's mother was 13 when she gave birth after her husband died, and she went out and found herself new husbands (and made excellent choices) as a teen. Just in my lifetime, there has been an increasing immaturity in adolescents and teens through the decades, due to culture. My nephews were more mature at that age than their children are, I was more so than they were, and my father had to quit school at 13 and supported his family because his father was ill, as examples. Today, for the most part in industrialized countries, we have the luxury of infantilization of adolescents and teens. Not so much for royalty and their palaces, but even up to the previous century, people of limited means, pioneers, peasants, etc. lived in one room cabins or huts, with everyone sleeping together as a norm. And their families grew. So I think there was a greater understanding of sex amongst children from a very young age. Nevertheless, I do see Catherine as a sad figure. I may seem like I'm contradicting myself, but it is because of her naiveté. She could not see the risks of marrying such a psychotic tyrant (with equally vile and vicious blood-thirsty advisers), nor the danger in continuing her activities, or even flirtations, after the marriage. Yet older men made the same mistake and paid the price with her.
How do we actually know Catherine had sex outside of her marriage? Maybe Henry just wanted to get rid of a wife he couldn't sexually satisfy. Henry would slut shame wives, once he wanted to get rid of them. Anne Boleyn was accused of adultery and Anna of cleves was accused of not being a virgin on her wedding night. The dude was paranoid after all.
@@madamemontespan9418 Culpepper nor Queen Catherine ever admitted to having sexual relations, only that they desired too, which was considered the same in Tudor times. Catherine claimed Dereham raped her, and there was no contract of marriage between them whereas Dereham claimed there was a contract and they meant to marry, which would have been considered legally binding in the Tudor era, but unfortunately Catherine did not know this, or was ill-advised on the matter and stuck to her story that there was never a promise of marriage. So, we really can’t say she was sexually involved with either of them, but she most likely was with Dereham, but not physically with Culpepper. Maddox only pursued her, and perhaps they kissed or he may have touched her sexually, but they did not have sex. Maddox seemed to have an inappropriate desire for Catherine, but that is basically where it ends.
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Thank you for watching.
*90-minutes of Tor🔥Ture & I Learned Nothing!!!!*
*The TaLk was to BE about Cat🔥HoWard!!! But,*
*it was Nothing about Cat's END!!!*
@david Starkey Talks would love to request a video on Lady Margaret Beaufort or Edward IV! I am proud to support this channel on Patreon!
Very interesting.
'Twas Agnes Tilney not Catherine Tilney!!
And Margaret Beaufort was married to Earl of Richmond, not Derby!!
Many of us would have given our right arms to have had Dr Starkey as our history teacher. Brilliant.
you prepared to spend your life with one arm? don't be silly.
It’s for that reason I joined his Patreon! Well said, @Tony Michaels!
Oh pleeeeeasee!!! A bigoted anti catholic!
@@colinlavelle7806 It's perfectly reasonable for anyone to be rationally skeptical and wholly unsympathetic to the Roman Catholicism without necessarily being as you try to imply, merely a bigot.
My own entirely negative experience of the Roman Catholicism have arisen largely from direct and intimate personal contact, (though an atheist myself, I was nonetheless briefly married a Roman Catholic woman; by then already divorced once and with 3 children from her first marriage and by now on her third or possibly even her fourth husband ?)
That alone even without those wider social, historic and political issues; endemic financial and other corruption, (including money laundering, etc...) and the widespread sexual and other abuses perpetrated by Jesuits and the other orders in France, Spain and Ireland, (where the mother baby homes were especially nasty example,) and the appalling historic abuses, (The Encomienda, etc...) throughout the New Word.
Most people of any normal sensibility are both utterly disgusted and repelled by these events and perhaps even more so by the profound hypocrisy that has always facilitated and legitimatized such behavior and even perpetuated it, ("do what we say but ignore what we actually do ?").
The condition of the Roman Catholic Church at the beginning of the 21st century is not a pretty sight, but then really it never has been.
@@Eris123451 Far more nicely said than I would have even attempted.
This man should be a British national treasure. His lectures are addictive and his knowledge profound.
Except for his schoolboy errors - as when he said that King John signed Magna Carta.
He is.
Exsakly
Unfortunately, his politics means he's a nasty little weasel.
@@monkeytennis8861 I think that's a bit strong. He's certainly a shameless self-publicist; always has been. I mean, "David Starkey Talks" - indeed!
Give this comment a thumbs up if you can listen to Dr. Starkey for hours. I know I can! I’m beyond thrilled Dr. Starkey is back and created this channel; I’ve binged all he’s posted thus far and joined his Pateron. He deserves it!
I love him very much I have his books
I am over the moon that Dr Starkey is back! It was SO upsetting that they tried to cancel him. Well the joke is on them. He’s bigger and better than ever!
Oh dear
Can't keep a good academic down!
He seems to be a lot more accessible to ordinary people. RUclips channel and patreon account etc. I’m delighted to be hearing his research and analysis too.
Well he probably should not have said what he did... I would never publicly disrespect the gay community. Dr Starkey is gay right? I adore him his lectures and documentaries are amazing. We might have an opinion about things but when you are in the public eye it's about being responsible on what you are saying.
I'm not sure about any gay slurs, but the commrent for which he was (rightly, in my opinion) publically lambasted was about slavery. Slavery was not a genocide "otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain would there? An awful lot of them survived."
It has to be said that the technical production is very professional - clear sound, framing, the fact that there is more than one camera etc. Well done who ever is responsible. And that goes for the talks from hs home. Well done whoever is responsible for those as well.
Yes, this very English channel is a gem.
The sound is not ideal, sorry to correct you. There is quite a lot of wet noise, (echo) though as the locale is so resplendent I can overlook that. Conversely, the trend for dry (close to the mic) sound can be rather unnatural.
It’s a shame that the lectern kept wobbling!
@@spartan.falbion2761 It is NOT a professional recording… so why expect a tv standard?!
Thank you so much for this lecture, Dr. Starkey.
I feel moved by Catherine Howard’s sad life & fate. She was not clever or careful enough for the treacherous Tudor court. She was temperamentally “un-royal” by nature, and she was raised very poorly by a neglectful family.
Agree - the family was neglectful. I also think she was very young and naive.
Brilliant stuff, the only man that can make history a symphony!
You made me late for this one - just finished watching your latest offering!
@@bork2739 You've got good taste in aging RUclips polemicists! 😂
Not the only one, if I may, but yes, certainly one of a few.
He does seem to know what to present and how to present it to make history more relevant and interesting.
There are women who are better though 🙂
Charity was invented in England in 1601? Sorry but even I know that's bollocks. Propaganda is right. Aka a lie
I fell in love with Tudor history because of this man. Excellent.
Me too!
it was on his Sunday morning radio programme that I learned of Princess Dianna's tragic death!
I did also!
me too...
Even if I learn one thing from this beautiful lecture " History is a dialogue, not a monologue" , i would feel extremely happy. Thanks a lot, Dr Starkey. 🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Sir Starky always gets my unconditional thumbs up 👍🏻
Agreed 👍
Well he gets my thumbs down!!!
@@colinlavelle7806 That's because you're French.
No one should get your unconditional thumbs up.
I have just found this channel and how very grateful I am. This man is a national treasure to the Brits. Where has this historian/storyteller been all my life. So bloody interesting.
Documentaries on Henry’s six wives spend too much time on Catherine of Aragon & Anne Boelyn, and skim over the other four rather fast. It’s refreshing to see a video focusing solely on Catherine Howard; just when I thought I knew a lot about her, I learned so much more from this, particularly about Cullpepper, Mannox and Lady Rochford. Bloody brilliant, Dr. Starkey; keep ‘em coming!
Such an enlightening take. Great lecture. And soooooo well said with,
"There all sorts of things we will never know the answer to. The most honest thing we can do is say so."
So important, yet so underused in the quest for and sharing of knowledge.
Good another one. I love all to do with Tudors & Stuarts having studied them so many years ago. The way Dr Starkey explains the way houses are set up, is so easy to see how things were like in 1500s!
Fantastic. I didn't want this to end.
so happy to see such high quality content from David. Everyone please make a donation if you can. Really hope to see a video on Walsingham in future from David x
@Jay Paul I couldn’t agree more. I just joined his Patreon and he’s got some locked videos over there so if you can, check it out! This man deserves it. I can (and have) listen to him for hours!
I signed up for Patreon on the highest level. Supporting Dr. Starkey is like supporting my favorite all-time teacher.
Awesome, thank you!
His lectures are so interesting i could listen to him for hours and hours! I love his sense of humor! Again amazing video!
Couldn’t agree more, @Martina Drempetic. I can (and have) listened to him for hours; I own his documentaries on The Wives of Henry VII and the four part series on Elizabeth I. I likely can narrate them at this point. I’m thrilled about his new channel, but also happy someone did an entire hour on just Katherine Howard. So many documentaries and historians who do videos on Henry and/or his wives spend much time on Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boelyn and gloss over the rest. I learned a great deal from listening to this, and in fact, am going to listen for the second time now!
He is brilliant. And calls it as it is. No sugarcoating here. Bravo
He does not “varnish the truth” as Lucky" Ned Pepper told Mattie Ross in the movie, “True Grit.”
Another enlightening talk from Dr Starkey. I've had the pleasure of attending Dr Starkey lectures three times over recent years. Immense knowledge, and imparts it so skillfully. So engaging and riveting. We are so fortunate that he is continuing to talk!
So thrilled to have found this as I have been a rather long time "rabid" fan of Mr. Starkey. No one else comes close in his brilliant delivery.
I adore Dr. Starkey. I’ve ingested every bit of the various documentaries he has participated in over the years to the point where I know what he is going to say next. He’s captivated me for years. I didn’t know he had a channel here, so Merry Christmas to me!
Excellent and an erudite historical discussion
Dr. Starkey, you sir are a breathe of fresh air! I admire the way you deliver your knowledge to us all, and have always enjoyed your work!! This Channel is my favorite on RUclips! Thank you so much!
What a delight it is to see your public lectures made available on your channel. This is going to make the next hour and half in work fly by.
No better way to make the time at work go by than to listen to Dr. Starkey. I’m over the moon about this channel, and cannot wait for more. Just joined his Patreon!
@@MarilynRB You can listen to 90 minute lectures at work? I am consumed with job envy!!
I could listen to Dr David Starkly all day he’s the BEST Historian ❤
I could listen to this man forever... regardless of topic!!
Hello Mr Starkey, I love history. Needless to say, I thouroghly enjoyed watching this presentation on Katherine Howard. Since we live in these terrible times of Covid and Woke, I find myself trying to make sense of what is happening. I keep watching your interview on the New Culture Forum. With all due respect sir, we need to hear more from you on what is happening. We are living the most dangerous historical times and white hair or not, I feel we still have an obligation to do our part to preserve the great legacy of Western civilization. Simply put, your brain, great knowledge, experience, wisdom, intuitions are needed and required. Resistance against Woke madness is building up. Strangely but not entirely surprising the black intelligentsia (Thomas Sowell and others) in America is coming to the rescue. You are needed.
..when i hear that pseudo edicated anti woke babble of yours i am also happy pur Generation with all its benefits leaves slowly. You sound more like Trump than Sokrates in some parts also.
@@herzkine The great thing about death is it comes without warning mostly. Be careful what you wish onto others, it may just boomerang back to you faster than you may wish for. I worked hard for my benefits are you? Or you just prefer to whine while waiting for it to fall from the sky while dreaming of Utopia? How romantic. Why not believe in fairies too? Is autocorrect too educated for you? not pseudo woke enough?
I’ve learned more watching these lectures than I ever did at school.
Did we learn much of real value at School? School is the board that Plaster is later placed? some Plaster is dull, some is very fancy!
You’re my favourite historian too, David. Thank you for this, it was fascinating.
I just found the Dr yesterday.
And I absolutely adore him
I think I will spend the rest of my day giggling him 😊
What a treasure
Adore this man so hard to find a person who gives great real history.
Another great lecture from David Starky really look forward to these. Riveting from start to finish. 👏👏👏
Thank you. You are our national treasure. Never let them shut you up.
I love all of his lectures as well as his documentaries e.g. Elizabeth, The six wives of Henry the VIII, Henry the VIII; The Mind of a Tyrant, Monarchy...all of them are so well written and presented.
Would love to have had him as my history teacher in College...
starkey is a national treasure,the best historian of our age.
David is the forensic pathologist of history
Just love this lecture! Catherine Howard was far more a complex character than being pigeon holed into a dumb party girl or an totally naive victim as she was historically portrayed! I think she had not been long enough at the Tudor court to realize that nobody was safe from the ax, and acted that she would always have Henry on her side!
I am a giant history nerd. Huge. I've watched almost every video featuring David Starkey. Read several of his books. He tops my list of favorite historians (evidence of the history nerd to have a list of favorites) so I'm thrilled by both his home videos and his lectures. Next best thing to actually studying under David Starkey, which would be one of my greatest wishes! What a wonderful channel, and hours of information. Makes this nerd's heart sing!
Thank you…..more of my David Starkey medicine ❤️❤️❤️
Very pleased to see this fine man back on coarse , the world was a poorer place without him and his subject English History 🎉
An absolutely compelling presentation: he is right when he says a great historian needs to have the sensibility of a great novelist.
His speech, looks a d mannerisms so remind me of my beloved British husband
Every lecture gives a fascinatingly new POV of each subject in a way that is easy to understand and to remember.
I am so happy to find new Dr. Starkey! Thank you.
Enjoyed every minute! Never stop talking 🙏
Thoroughly captivating lecture. Thank you very much.
Fantastic talk
Working my way through all of David's vidoes on his channel and each one is simply brilliant. This one in particular.
Always a pleasure to listen to you Sir, and I learn a bit more every time.
Thank you so much for your scholarship and wit, Dr. Starkey; I enjoy your discussions very much!
Deeply disappointed in the way Catherine Howard is portrayed here. She must have been extraordinarily brave to marry a monster like that King, then to be butchered mercilessly by Henry’s psychos….what a nightmare for any girl.
So wonderful to see Dr Starkey back! And so sharply dressed too. So distinguished and knowledgeable. Shame on cancel culture for attempting to silence a legend of history.
Shame on someone as supposedly smart and educated as Starkey, for his absolutely disgusting comments about colonisation and the trans Atlantic slave trade.
@@UnapolegeticallyAProblem An eminent, well respected historian who is a legend in his field, researches meticulously for decades, but woke little YOU disagrees? You’re entitled to your opinion however Dr Starkey’s is based on fact, not emotion or a particular victim hood mindset. Perhaps YOU should research more and free up your closed mind? Just a thought ( pretty sure you won’t and will simply hurl unpleasant invective with anyone that disagrees with you *sigh*).
@@UnapolegeticallyAProblemnothing worse than an academic using words according to their actual meaning. How very dare he!
Henry’s most forgotten and unfairly judged Queen. So wonderful to see Starkey talk about her given even in his own book on Henry’s wives and the accompanying channel 4 documentary, plenty of interesting things about her get left out.
Without being a judge on the matter , l can't help but think that , how did Catherine Howard ,possibly think she could get away with her unfaithfulness to King Henry , given the strictness of the day and what was instore for those who broke the rules.
@@jenniferharrison8546 Thst is a very interesting question you pose. I too often have thought of that, given she’s likely surrounded by her ladies at most times. I wonder if Lady Jane Rochford helped her facilitate her romps with Culpepper or Derham. What do you think?
So excited about this channel and to engaged in discussions with likeminded people such as yourself.
@@jenniferharrison8546 Well, one of the points he makes in the lecture is that at Horsham when she was a ward of the Duchess she was never disciplined properly for her promiscuity or for facilitating such activities amongst her peers. Therefore, she learnt that rules are things that can be broken and authority is something that can be bypassed. What I'm more amazed is the the Duke, knowing what happened to his other niece, encouraged the king's courtship knowing she was damaged goods. That was being blinded by greed.
..He still comes to the conclusion she was just a dumb little fun loving simple girl. Which may be very true, i dont know better sources than him atm :-D
@@jenniferharrison8546 it must have been awful for her to be married to a fat old man with a smelly, gammy leg when she was in love with someone else.
Magnificent Mr Starkey 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Is this his best? I've learnt so much. Thank you.
And it's not finished yet
Then you've learnt a very biased, sexist, and bigoted view.
I love how Davis always links the past to similar modernism. Humans haven't changed much throughout the ages, same motivations and dreams. Not stuffy old history but alive and relevent. I truly believe this is the whole formula behind "learn from history or you are doomed to repeat it." We can't help it, we are the same beings underneath just in cleaner clothes.
..i see this and then his talent for also totally off feeling comparisons of history and modern people. :-D
This man shows the results of a real education.....
Great to see Dr Starkey again. An excellent historian.
I love this idea of comparing then and now. The older I get, the more I see the parallels between current events and personalities and things I’ve read about in the past.
A treasure trove of information, thank you sir.
“Historians are only as good as how they do history…they’re only as good as how they write.”
And here we have the best. Bar none!
Fantastic lecture, surpassing his own TV series on the wives. Who knew that we know more about Howard than any of the others when she gets a paragraph at most in most histories?
This fellow is a great explainer of contextual history.
Excellent talk! IMO the best so far.
I’m watching this fabulous lecture while handing out candy to Trick-or-Treaters in San Diego, CA on October 31, 2022. So apt when the light insult to our American Halloween spreading to the UK was mentioned. This man is an International Treasure!
You're my favourite historian as well.....great minds;-))) What could be better than your set lecture? Your question period. That's when you really get going. I won't be able to join your private group - times are tough in the Canadian art world, but I will continue to follow you with an avid art historian's interest. I agree with you about the Boleyn drawing. I've always felt that that was the only remaining image. Poor girl had a goitre. I suppose, a lack of iodine. Fortunately we now have iodised salt - but not too much - high blood pressure, don't you know ;-)
Fascinating, fascinating talk. Thank you, David.
My Lord Starkey advocates the presentation of history thus: "Facts Taught with Passion" ... given his sumptuously compelling lectures, who can gainsay him?
What an amazing talk! Full of facts but still very entertaining. Thank you!
Lynn Frederick played Catherine once in a film... it was only about 20 minutes of screen time but she really brought home that she was just a child, and a scapegoat of forces outside of her control.
Dont base your historical knowledge on an old film with Lynne Frederik…
I agree. Frederick evoked Catherine's "delightful countenance" better than any actress I've ever seen.
Lynne Frederick was very beautiful; it’s a shame she never made more films.
I love that he essentially says that he was able to read an inscrutable text, because he got absolutely hammered at lunch while on holiday in France.. how many times have we been able to understand things when smashed but not when sober 😂 fair play
I’m lucky enough to know Dr Starkey and regularly get to question him on the great matters affecting our world…and I love it because he’s as brilliant in real life as he is here. His knowledge is forensic, his explanations are always enlightening. So glad he’s started this channel-this is what RUclips should really be about.
Superb!!! Thank you 💜
Much more interesting than my founding father's wives. Except for the brilliant and persevering Abigail Adams, of course.
On another note, the way you weave in relevant references such as the view of the reformation and subsequent church really helps to frame the historical context.
I also think you nailed Boris. There is a term for people who invite conflict around them for potential manipulative use. But I can't remember if it is narcissist or coward. Ha!
Currently isolating with Covid & these videos are really helping me through this very difficult time.
What a gem this man is
Excellent lecture, thank you David .
Weirdly I find Catherine Howard to be one of Henry's most interesting wife - maybe because we know so little about her in comparison to his other wives. To me her history is very tragic and its a reflection of how bad things could get back then for women who dared to explore their sexuality - or in Catherines case they could also be punished for being molested ( she could not consent to sex with Mannox as a 12 year old girl, come on).
12 years old is an adult in those times. It's hugely about rank then. Had he molested her she would know very well he could be imprisoned as her station would be etched into her mind from birth. As he said, they didn't have sex but he touched her. She was naive though and ill prepared for court, let alone to be queen.
Agreed, I loved the lecture, but EVEN taking into account different sexual mores and views of "adulthood" of the time, and the fact that Catherine was technically of higher stature than Maddox, I still don't agree with dr Starkey's assessment of what happened there. I do think Catherine was probably quite insouciant and possibly not very clever by nature. But it's quite clear that she was also neglected by her grandmother and the rest of the family and encouraged/pressured to become sexually active by the atmosphere of the girls' chamber. Seeing as Maddox told on her to her grandmother after she ended with him, he comes across as quite vindictive (maybe "the nice guy" type?). It's not a stretch to think that he pressured her into sexual activity before she was ready for it. He could've easily manipulated her by saying things like "you'd let me do it if you really loved me", "I'm being so nice to you and you won't even let me do anything" - this is still commonly seen to this day. Catherine most likely WAS used by him, even if she didn't realise it herself and even if she was a fun-loving girl by nature. And of course what he did to her could have affected her later relationships with other men. But even if it didn't, we shouldn't just assume that her later indiscretions are enough to make her responsible for her own abuse when she was younger - again, something that we still see in modern society and courts, even when it comes to very young women! I think any woman who was touched against her will or otherwise harassed or abused, especially at a young age, would be able to easily empathise with Catherine here, and unfortunately I think in this case dr Starkey is showing a lot of implicit bias both as a man (who doesn't have that experience) and as a person of a certain age (who forgot how easy it is to be emotionally manipulated when you're a young teenager). This is rather forgivable in the sense that he obviously can't change who he is, but I'm really glad that we also have other scholars who present a more nuanced look at this situation. (Can't help but feel that his view of Henry's other wives is also quite harsh and unforgiving, as if he took at face value reports from sources written by people who also had their biases, and wasn't able to imagine what it would feel like to actually be in, say, Anne Boleyn's shoes when she was being pursued by Henry. Not that I think they were all wronged angels - of course they weren't. They were imperfect humans. But doctor Starkey almost makes them into some sort of cold scheming machines). Having said that, again, I did enjoy the lecture and found it very informative, and dr Starkey's delivery is of course top-notch! Ooops, quite an essay I wrote here! ;-)
@@AW-uv3cb agreed and even 12 was considered very young to start a sexual relationship. A girl could marry young but even then they didnt consumate the marriage until mid to late teens. She was manipulated by him and groomed. She had no guidance and was ill prepared for royal life especially at the tudor court.
The idea of her being mollested is Lucy worsleys take on it
I found this so thought provoking. Thank you. I will muse for a long time following your presentation.
Thank you - fascinating. I'd love to know what a future Dr Starkey would have to say about Boris and Carrie!
I must say I find his quips quite relevant!
Never mind the future he says plenty right now. Lol
A shagger and a Climber
Thank you for posting this! Always love to hear more about history
Oh, Mr. Starkey! For years, or since I’ve become fascinated with British history and Henry the VIIls reign….. (Being a American myself, raised by prominent British grandparents from Northamptonshire, who had some of the most notable education if I may say so, my daily life was more British than American but now that I am grown and they’re gone, I realize how much I’ve taken for granted and feel something when I learn from you that’s familiar but ANYWAYS!) Before I lose my train of thought trying to convey everything and make sense, my point being is I couldn’t agree with you more when it comes to your perspective on what Anne Boleyn would have looked like. I so very much appreciate your passion and dedication to these particular times in history and making it as factual as possible! You’re my favorite historian too. 😉 Thank you! 🙏🏻
This is so interesting. Looking through time at the lives of these people in detail. Appreciate all the work done transcribing letters and scripts - no easy task. Dereham was a relative of mine so this adds to the intrigue.
I love David Starkey documentaries he is so good
The dowager duchess’s household resembles that famous young ladies scholastic establishment known as “ St. Trinians! “.
I hope I can get your books, unabridged, on Audible now, Dr. Starkey. I wasn’t even aware you you had written any non-academic works, I must have them. After a lifetime of lugging around far too many heavy, bulky, dusty books, all my new book purchases are digital, and, ideally, recorded, ones. I read so much my that my arms ache as I get older, I love to just pop my iPad on its stand and listen, instead.
I agree, I adore my books but when commuting its not convenient to carry them around, on top of the fact they get damaged very easily. I'm still waiting for the Six Wives on kindle so fingers crossed
Priceless. Starkey is a national adornment. That he has not, so far as we know, been offered a Knighthood, or indeed a Peerage, is disgraceful.
Thank you Sir for a fascinating and inspiring talk, what evidence can do , together with a narration that you gave, David Starkey that i feel like my imagination has being fueled and, this good old fashioned thing of, a informed imagination feels stimulated again. Wonderful talk Sir.
Imagination through ink and paper, through the very physical world around me, that I can explore, like I did before, in the 1980s.
Now , is becoming different. The information which I found slowly in 80s, in a natural human way, somehow gentle comforting ( but sometimes not atall happy or good but human), I can't think of the correct word exactly, but it was definitely different, very different !
Now , the same information a fast frentetic pace about it, this needs to be accessed through, the ( strangely mesmerising Merlin Magic Box obsidian stonelike device of the) , smart phone, or the screen.
At least being, concerned with simple things a a kid i , never really noticed or payed much attention to modern things, accept those that were probably around even in the 1920s and 30s.
The strong closeness with nature, reality. Yes film and casette players , but these didn't intrude much on my mullying around, feeling very close to past. Wandering into little tiny country churches, imagining the people in past times.
In Victorian times, how they ate root vegetables through the winter and the joy the must have felt gorging on the apples and wild berries in the summer, sewing listening to my mum and granny talk of sewing and things, my mum and granny even made alot of my clothes as a child. The Tudor the Roman and Greek , seemed somehow on days, just the blowing of a dandelion seed head away.
Imagination, of fighting the wolves from the sheep shielding the village. The imagination of hiding away in the forest or somewhere for believing in the wrong religion, imagine being taken away to a workhouse, somehow in the 1980s these things, with a childs imagination seemed very close, and i felt very close to those that came before me.
Now, with computers it should be easier to see the information of a photo of evidence, but somehow i wonder if the feeling of closeness to the past and the reality of ,the simple chance we could be there rather than here, and what exactly all the possibilities of the person we might have been, is becoming suddenly quickly harder, for us to imagine, as new devices pop up.
I loved hearing you speak about your favourite memories from your work , I love to listen to people talk of things they have experienced and loved.
Sometimes it hard to describe, and put into words subtle thoughts and I know its hard to articulate the subtle, one thing thats wonderful today is being allowed to express things.
When I hear you speak about some of your favourite memories, I hear these vivid memories are formed somehow as a peek, as the mystery gets discovered or solved , in this kind of meeting of your knowledge, hard work, hope, and imagination tangeling together with the physical jewel of the actual tactile nature of the paper, the ink from oh so long ago, the miraculously persevere parchments paper. Almost like a story in itself, the adventure of it all.
I feel how firstly , how important it is to have both a creatures the physical world of paper, ink, people, love animals.
Secondly the reality of human imagination, friendship freedom, positive old fashioned laughter, dreaming, atmospheres, mysteries, helping each other become happy healthy useful.
Thirdly the modern world and hope in the future, gratitude for innovations. Using the wonderful inventions as best we can, and see loved ones shine with the genius of computers and the possibles to have large inclusive friendship groups, and learning that wouldn't have been possible before, work, .
So again Sir i am grateful for your lecture about a Queen and a woman that i find very relatable, and for stimulate me thinking about the good things and the difference between now and then, ,information and simplicity , thanks 🌷🌸⚘🐴 !
Thank you, you very much brought the subject alive. I did a little genealogy a few years back and there certainly a rather strange thrill of seeing documentation that shows original information, signatures or in some cases the X signature of your relatives, of course not the ORIGINAL ... but the online version of copy. Always fascinating to listen to you. Thank you.
God, I look forward to these
History is my pleasure and with your presentations, knowledge,
He really brings it alive. Summer of '40 - wow. Thanks Starkey ❤
Extraordinary! Thank you for lectures!
Brilliant Speaker. Interesting and Intriguing Topic. Tudors Are Always Fascinating.
This is a subject that I would love to hear more about. I know there is such a short time between the marriage and her execution that there is, doubtless, less information to gleam from. But should you find a peculiar sub-plot, perhaps you could speak about this in greater detail. I very much enjoyed this lecture and I’m enjoying your series online. Thank you very much, Dr. Starkey.
I would live to know the original date and location of this talk, it’s such a beautiful church.
Well as to date, we know he refers to President Biden and PM Johnson so not long ago.
What a wonderful story teller.
Very informative and interesting take on Catherine's downfall. I do question whether Catherine was "in control" in all of the relationships she had. Certainly at age 12 when her music teacher sexually touched her, historians can't agree she was in " control" as she was a little child. This was clearly sexual abuse by an older (and married) teacher. Sexual abuse can lead on to feelings of low self worth and perhaps as Catherine had "done it before" and men knew about this, she was easily persuaded by Dereham and Culpepper to engage in a physical relationship. Perhaps she was a easily manipulated and vulnerable person. Sometimes I think not having a proper female older role model and a present father in her life, to give her advice and protection made her do frivolous things and made her prey to sexually aggressive men. The price for losing your virginity, pregnancy and lose of reputation was extremely high in those days, I do wonder why Catherine didn't seem to see the consequences. On the other hand Catherine clearly loved the attention and no doubt the sex with Derham and Culpepper, who, I believe she was in love with, but there are always many sides to one story. She was very young and when we are young we can be frivolous, manipulated, make bad decisions and act without thinking.
I don't disagree with your analysis, as I think it is a difficult endeavor to judge how much control over their situations a person who lived so long ago in a different culture and circumstances had, and as a female when, for the most part, women were subjugated with few rights. It is always a challenge to be able to disregard our current beliefs and culture when judging the acts of people in the past. In that regard, I hesitate to use her age too much to explain her behavior, as our current concept of a 12-year old's maturity (and life) is different than what it was in the of a 16th century. Henry VII's mother was 13 when she gave birth after her husband died, and she went out and found herself new husbands (and made excellent choices) as a teen.
Just in my lifetime, there has been an increasing immaturity in adolescents and teens through the decades, due to culture. My nephews were more mature at that age than their children are, I was more so than they were, and my father had to quit school at 13 and supported his family because his father was ill, as examples. Today, for the most part in industrialized countries, we have the luxury of infantilization of adolescents and teens.
Not so much for royalty and their palaces, but even up to the previous century, people of limited means, pioneers, peasants, etc. lived in one room cabins or huts, with everyone sleeping together as a norm. And their families grew. So I think there was a greater understanding of sex amongst children from a very young age.
Nevertheless, I do see Catherine as a sad figure. I may seem like I'm contradicting myself, but it is because of her naiveté. She could not see the risks of marrying such a psychotic tyrant (with equally vile and vicious blood-thirsty advisers), nor the danger in continuing her activities, or even flirtations, after the marriage. Yet older men made the same mistake and paid the price with her.
How do we actually know Catherine had sex outside of her marriage? Maybe Henry just wanted to get rid of a wife he couldn't sexually satisfy. Henry would slut shame wives, once he wanted to get rid of them. Anne Boleyn was accused of adultery and Anna of cleves was accused of not being a virgin on her wedding night. The dude was paranoid after all.
@@leonieromanes7265 We know because she said so. In letters (Culpepper) and in person.
@@madamemontespan9418 She said What exactly. That she fucked with all of those men? I don't think so.
@@madamemontespan9418 Culpepper nor Queen Catherine ever admitted to having sexual relations, only that they desired too, which was considered the same in Tudor times. Catherine claimed Dereham raped her, and there was no contract of marriage between them whereas Dereham claimed there was a contract and they meant to marry, which would have been considered legally binding in the Tudor era, but unfortunately Catherine did not know this, or was ill-advised on the matter and stuck to her story that there was never a promise of marriage. So, we really can’t say she was sexually involved with either of them, but she most likely was with Dereham, but not physically with Culpepper. Maddox only pursued her, and perhaps they kissed or he may have touched her sexually, but they did not have sex. Maddox seemed to have an inappropriate desire for Catherine, but that is basically where it ends.
Excellent talk, David is such an excellent speaker, passionate and knowledgeable. Great stuff. The wobbly lectern was slightly annoying tho.
Couldn’t agree more! He’s amazing!