Been playing Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader since 1978. Mastering the Sequence of Play is the key to the game. And once you do, no other game's sequence of play will ever rival it. The ability in ASL to defensive fire during your opponent's movement phase sets this game apart from almost anything else. Watching your line hold off a human wave assault by Russians or Communist Chinese or repelling a German assault in Stalingrad showcase the excellence of ASL's sequence of play. ASL Starter Kit is a great way for a new player to engage with the game before progressing on to full ASL and the world of World War II that ASL opens up. Fighting for the Tractor Works on maps of the actual Stalingrad location is unlike anything else you can experience. Playing the glider assault on Pegasus Bridge is an absolutely amazing game moment. Last year, I played the assault on Pointe du Hoc on a map of that battlefield. My Rangers landed, and scaled the cliffs and took out the German bunkers and repelled the German counter-attack for the win. I could go on endlessly regarding the great game moments that this game provides. The rules, while expansive are easily referenced as needed during game play. And keep in mind that the average scenario rarely requires any more than the core rules for moving, firing, etc. When you are ready, you can expand your horizons and take the battle into North Africa and the Pacific, which do require additional rules knowledge related to the differences encountered in those unique terrains. But again, the reward in exciting game play makes it all worth while. My love for this game has only grown over time. In 2023, I played 120 games including four at the Kansas City March Madness Tournament. Tournaments are held throughout the US and in Europe and are another fantastic way for new players to learn how to play this game and experience the game play that is unique to Squad Leader. My blog site also provides links to other great ASL resources to allow you to more fully explore this fantastic game and decide for yourself if ASL is for you. boxcarsagainaslblog.blogspot.com/
I agree. ASL is hard as hell but it is a great game. Many tactical games are not tactical at all. I do hope one day my modern tactical game will be released and you will have another to play. Maybe one day.
Nice post and the enthusiasm. I purchased the electronic rules and looking at getting st mere elglise. I gave the core box sets. Never played , I know.... But do you pla y the campaigns?
I agree...no other games sequence of play will rival ASL. In the same way a NYC White Pages phone book will never be "rrivaled"...it's not a good thing.
It was fun playing ASL Starter kit with Alexander. He picked it up amazingly quickly we only rewound a few times. I grew up playing full ASL, but after a move I never found another opponent. That all happened last century. I sold off my ASL stuff after a few years. Then on a whim I picked up the starter kit ten-fifteen years ago. I managed to play a few times, but it had been a few years since I played. One issue I had teaching, was accidently teaching you full ASL. MMP did an amazing job in distilling down ASL to the ASL Starter Kit. Part of the distilling process is removing rules and remembering which rules don't apply to the starter kit can be tricky. The rules are dense, and the phases are a bit tricky, but for me, that is the appeal, and after a few games it seems to make sense, and encourage behavior that models the combat tactics depicted as much as a game can do that. All I know is that I have a certain mood when playing certain games, some combination of mental satisfaction, pleasure, and good stress that brings an unconscious smile to my face ASL is one of them. Dibs on Decision at Elst. :)
That was like watching David Carradine walk across the rice paper in Kung Fu. Well done Grasshopper, you managed that without unleashing a horde of enraged ASL players on yourself. 😅
No kidding right? I was waiting forAlexander to just blurt out how this game is ridiculous in it's level of book keeping, but he walked the fence like a career politician. lol
I love ASL, I have all of the modules(both starter kit and the full version) and play them all the time with my fiancee. I was waiting for you guys to do a review of the system. All that being said, I can totally understand why many people don't get further into it. I'm sure many, if not most, play "Retaking Vierville" and never pick it up again. Thanks for giving my favorite war game system a college try and keep up the great content!
I enjoyed your take on ASLSK. I played a lot of ASL when I was younger, transitioning from Squad Leader. As I got older I sold it all off. On a whim I bought some starter kits and started to play again. It was ok, I was managing to get through it and remembered more than expected. However, I played a bit of Old School Tactical and it dawned on me I could play a tactical system similar to what I knew without the complexity. Moved to OST and haven’t looked back!
Complex games pose a challenge the buyer/enthusiast doesn't usually consider: He has to learn all the rules AND find someone else who is willing to learn all the rules, too! That is a greater challenge than mastering the game oneself.
I'm an ASL player, but yes, this is hardcore. It's based on a simple system of phases in 1977, but the amount of stuff being hung on that sequence of play is now so huge it does tend to creak like an old bridge. And fair play for giving this a go - it definitely isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea.
The ASL and ASLSK community is very welcoming. We realize that the system can be very daunting to learn. There are always people willing to teach how to play the game, especially using VASL [Virtual ASL] using VASSAL. On the 400+ page rule book: there is a lot there but you only need to learn 10% of the rules that are used most of the time. The rest are special rules that you generally access when your scenario requires them. We all reference the Rulebook in those situations.
The issues lies in that learning to use Vassal is yet another hurdle. There are soo many games we will never have time to play, that investing the majority of your time into just one is a prospect fewer and fewer people are interested in doing.
@@MoragTong_ I can't agree with you at all. Vassal can be mastered in one session and opens a world FULL of opponents to you. It takes less time than learning a game and provides you with an infinite number of opponents to play against.
If people want to learn more about ASL (and SK) I have over 200 instructional videos on my channel. The Starter Kit system is amazingly approachable. Learning the entire SK system I believe is only 36 pages, which is significantly shorter than most hex and counter games out there. Learning just the infantry rules is only about 8 pages. EIGHT! Since when has 8 pages become too much for wargamers? 😂 The only downside is that the rulebook is poorly organized as they converted the legalese rules of full ASL into more narrative rules. It doesn't work well with a tactical, phase based system like ASL.
I can personally vouch for this channel. I have played ASL for most of my 59 years, and this particular gentleman explains things easily and with lots of examples of play. ASL is the King
I pulled this off my shelf of shame over Christmas break and ended up playing 5 of the 6 scenarios against myself 😂, like 16 hours worth of solo play. I was surprised how much fun I had! Totally not for everyone. I got Beyond Valor and the full rule book in the mail yesterday. That said, if I want to play something tactical with another person I’d totally bring out CC:E, which also tells an amazing story with every play.
Excellent , Alex , I sort of knew this was coming, definitely sticking to up front, don't care if it's daddy's favourite, playable easy to set up n have another go boyo 😮😎🌱⚡👍
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I concur with you 100%, though I did not keep any of my ASL stuff. The rules were too impenetrable. Combat Commander is my go-to for this scale of tactical WWII game.
I think it’s great for you try it because it’s such a long lasting game that impacts the designs of many games. If anything, even if this is your only experience, you’ve now seen what it’s about.
I’m really amused to see you review this. It does seem to be the very deep end of tactical wargames. I enjoy a variety of wargames and I’m also curious to experience this one day. I really love Combat Commander and I’ve also learned Last Hundred Yards and Panzer/MBT. I’d probably not bother to go further than Starter Kit #1.
Thanks very much for this video and the commentary. When Squad Leader and then Advanced Squad Leader appeared many years ago, they were huge steps forward in wargaming and at the tactical level in particular. Now, after the many variations and derivations, returning to ASL in the Starter Kit mode is a collision of nostalgia and newness--"newness" in the sense that there's so many other options out there now which emphasize other aspects of small-unit engagement. ASL/ASLSK is about bringing firepower to bear (something that's especially evident in the modules that follow when artillery and tanks come into play); 'Band of Brothers" is somewhat lighter fare that's meant to be thematic rather than emblematic; 'Combat Commander' strikes me as managing chaos; 'Last Hundred Yards' about fire-and-movement both, in a way ASL, despite its efforts, never really was or is; and 'Fields of Fire' focuses on communication and coordination, the management of squads amidst uncertainty. I can well understand why players who adore Combat Commander's gameplay would find ASLSK off-putting, in part because of the complexity and the demands made on the player to react to the battlefield instead of the cards being held. Your reaction and your insights were, as ever, fascinating. I'd be very interested to see you and Grant play a game in the new format, and see Grant's reaction to a very different sort of lifting that ASLSK imposes on the player. I wonder how interested he is in ASL/ASLSK.
Another thing about the sequence of play. In almost every other game, the SOP is just stepwise perform actions and are mostly administrative. In SK/ASL the SOP goes far beyond that. What you perform in the Rally phase (Phase 1) affects many other phases in the game. Activity on one phase will always impact, sometimes to a LARGE extent, other phases of the game. So ALL phases are interconnected on planning what you need to get done THAT turn and the succeeding turns. It's like a basic wargame is just turning the key to start your car and then gas and brake pedals control the action. Whereas, SK/ASL, Knowing the capability of your engine, tires, Gas quality, weight in vehicle, and center of balance of the car will need to be known to drive effectively. Some Gamers just want to drive...others want to PERFORM.
Great to see some time given to the grandaddy of tactical war games. This game (SL) came out like FORTY SEVEN YEARS ago! There aren't many games (war games) that can make a claim like that. Great vid Alexander! 🍻
Asl is the complex grandparent of all tactical games. I am glad you have started a stream on these . I agree the complexity is there. I still need to decide do i take the plunge, the time and can i solitaire!!!
That game looks really good, fun, and reasonably realistic. My father has all those old squad leader games in storage. I will ask him to buy this one. My older brothers are off to the university but I said I would play this game with him. My sisters pitched in and off we go.
I started on Squad Leader when I was in the navy back in the seventies. I ended up with ASL and all of the modules. I played it solitaire. I can imagine the arguments over rules that would have occurred if I played the game someone else.
There's a lot of variety in ASL, especially when you add more starter kits or modules. Once you have worked you way through ASLSK 1, 2 and 3 and the expansions it becomes much easier to learn and appreciate. ASLSK and ASL has a great deal of depth, but it does take time to learn. In order to really appreciate it, you have to be willing to commit to it. It's not a game for a casual gamer, you have to commit to it, if you don't have the desire to commit to the game this system is probably not for you.
Thanks for the review. I played SL back in the 80's, pre-ASL. I felt like the rules got out of control and I sold my games a few years ago. These days, I would much rather roll out Commands and Colors and have a fun 1-hour game...life is too short!
One could say learning ASL is a game all on its own and your satisfaction with that part of it will help define your experience with the game as a whole. It requires a certain mindset, not necessarily greater concentration or intelligence. Some people will be wired for it and some will not. I haven't been entirely successful with it yet, but I still find it appealing. I have seen people who play massive super-detailed operational games who don't like ASL, and vice versa. There are so many options of games and systems and ways to play and types of games to play, it's important to find what works for you and cut yourself some slack when learning and playing the things that don't work as well for you. Or don't bother. Not everyone is bound to like every single good game. That doesn't make the games or the people less good :).
Hi Alexander, thanks for this review, I love it. When I was young in the 80's, I only played SL then ASL, with a few other wargames that used not much more than 5% of my playing time. Then I stopped playing wargames at all while I entered my professional carrer, up to around 2010, when I came back to war games, many of them then. I found I preferred operational scale games, but after a few years I came back to ASL at my local Paris club, and it was again a blast. Since then I tried many other tactical WWII or WWIII games, and I have been disappointed with all of them, even the best produced with incredible components. I believe ASL rules on the tactical modern warfare realm, and I felt in your voice that you agreed to this during this video, enthusiasm, maybe I'm wrong. What it takes is reading the full rulebook cover to cover each year, but that's such a good investment. However, I now prefer operational scale games, and I don't play a lot of ASL games. But I always love it when some player proposes we play an ASL scenario. Also, this game has another quality I believe : it is the only one I know where you can play a game in 4 hours when the rulebook is more than 100 pages! When you come to France I'll be happy to play a game with you, ASL or other. ;-)
The interactive movement/defensive fire phase didn't used to be so complicated, what with all the first fire, defensive fire, final fire, etc. In Squad Leader it was just defensive fire and that was it. But this wasn't granular enough for the realism nuts, so ASL broke that down into more sub-steps, and turned a fairly streamlined sequence of play into a quagmire of move-and-take-fire micro-steps. It's a major reason I tend to just stick with classic Squad Leader over ASL/ASLSK.
Alexander looked like a fine how a fine wine connaisseur that just had his first glass of moonshine, but he delivered a clear and level headed summary of the ASL system.
I suggest to keep SK1 and Decision at Elst. Decision at Elst has a campaign game.and hiatorical map and rules which is a different experience from your regular scenarios. Its also the only SK historical game so far and out of print and will most likely not be reprinted
I played ASL for years and gave it up around 10 years ago. I decided to pick up the ASLSK and I have been glad I did. I would never go back to full-blown ASL, However, I have truly enjoyed playing the lighter SK. I find it odd, that you all had issues with the rules. You play games like EOTS, Fields of Fire, and the COIN games. I think those are just as hard as ASLSK. I am still lost on games like Fire on the Lake and Labyrinth haha. I have no clue.. I have to be honest that I love playing Combat Commander more, but It seems I always have an ASLSK game going on as well. The SOP is the key to the ASLSK, I still keep my laminated copy of the SOP next to me for every game. Thank you for being open-minded and giving it a try. It is not for everyone, and I appreciate your honesty concerning your thoughts on the game. Keep up the great work.
Phew...I've been wondering about this game for a while now, but like you, I'm thinking easier is the way to go these days! I already have enough heavy games to keep me occupied😃
Could tell from the opening moments of the vid that you were not going to like it. Personally I love this game, don't play it all the time and sometimes have very long stretches between plays but when I pick it up again I always get a huge kick out of it. Always exciting and tells a great story. Yea learning it the first time can be a slog but once you have learned and internalized the basic game sequence and concepts it is like riding a bicycle, you will never forget it whenever you pick it up again. If you are going to get rid of stuff do keep the SK modules. Don't think they will take up too much space and if you get rid of them you will spend gobs of cash getting it back if you change your mind later.. You can get rid of the regular modules, I think you will probably never play them, but you could just play ASLSK and get most of the ASL experience. There are getting to be a large number of ASLSK scenarios and maps and counters these days, a complete game system within a game. Personally I have fallen back into the SKs and will only be playing those for a while, perhaps the next several years but I will get back into the full game again eventually. Still, both games are just awesome WWII tactical sandboxes and fascinating puzzles to solve and I just love this system. Haven't played in a while and your somewhat blasé review (just teasing) has me thinking about it again and exceited to scratch the itch again. Personally Combat Commander just doesn't do it for me and I have collected them all. No tanks, it just isn't a complete WWII squad level system and I find the whole card management bit a real distraction from what is going on with the counters on the board.
I bought the starter kit 1 a while back. I punched the chits and organized into plastic trays. Played this when I was a teenager way back when. I would have gladly sent you my copy and paid for shipping! What I want is the full game in one box, not just the starter kit. But I was not willing to dig into my 401K to pay for the exhorbitant cost from MMP. Now in the past I loved the crunchiness of the game and the relatively small footprint. You could set up and play anywhere basically. What I wish was that the product was sold by GMT--I could then buy it from Amazon and not direct from the supplier. I simply do not trust the fulfillment from small game companies; example, you pay for a game then receive it 17 months later.
It was an honest review. ASL and ASLSK isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I commend him for trying it. And who knows, after having let it settle a bit he may be back.
I've tried both ASL Beyond Valor and SK#1. I bounced off both. I'm just glad I didn't do my usual 'buy everything before I try it' gambit. I guess I'll stick with my other 50+ inferior wargames 😂.
Excellent review and overview. I played SL/ASL in the 1980s in high school and college. And then I moved on to mini wargaming over the subsequent decades. Last year I tried to return to ASL with the help of a group who plays in and runs tournies. So they know the game and were great teachers. But I just couldn't stay with it. It felt like doing a lot of extra steps and processing to achieve often ludicrous results. Meanwhile, modern game designs have often succeeding in providing a more realistic result with far less overhead. Two examples of things that really turned me off. First, "bypass movement". It allows a player to trace a path for a unit moving through the hex using the actual terrain illustrations rather than the hex writ large to move much faster. I guess the developers felt it was more detailed/realistic. But it undermined the valuable abstraction of terrain in a hex slowing tactical movement. Soldiers don't waltz past buildings when in close contact. Someone might be in that building ready to pop you. So you move SLOWER in close terrain rather than faster. Second, towed weapons act like video game quick scoping sniper rifles. My opponent had an 88 that engaged a squad off to one side. It then rapidly swiveled to engage a single officer running from cover to nearby cover. It felt like a Benny Hill skit. All of those fire phases and admin counters and it still couldn't accurately portray how such a weapon operates. There's a really great game down under the many layers of whacky detail. I've been tempted to rewrite the rules but ended up doing that with the Lock n Load tactical series since it has prettier components. PS I forgot one more absurd thing. The way the CRT works, there's an incentive to NOT fire a squad's supporting LMG since it won't shift a column and might breakdown. 🙄 That sort of artifice really breaks the game's narrative quality.
LoL! It's not for everyone... I did find the first Starter kit scenario to be somewhat bland without support weapons. The ASL experience is far richer in narrative and therefore far more enjoyable , never mind the expanded scope of being able to play just about any conflict you can think of in WW2. All those possibilities are a bit overwhelming really. Definitely the best way to learn is from an experienced player.
As someone who has collected all of classic Squad Leader and has skimmed it enough to know where it's lacking, diving into ASL and its starter kits has been awfully tempting. Not sure I can justify taking out a third mortgage on the second house I'd need to buy in order to both pay for it all and have room to store it, though
I was an original SL fan back in the late 70's / early 80's. After a 25 year absence from gaming I tried to get into ASL but just couldn't find enjoyment in it. I spent way too much time thumbing through rules instead of actually playing the game. I have since moved to The Last Hundred Yards and find it much more enjoyable and the rules less dense.
I don't know the Starter Kit rules, but I play ASL for 30 or so years. I just played a "Hatten in Flames" solo mission today ... the whole day long. Yes. It is really very complicated, I would say. Every time I play it, I have to look into the rules for this and that even after playing so many years. But it is simply the best tactical WW2 game out there in my opinion. I think that ASL is a hobby for itself. It is not a game You pick up and play easily.
4:40 _"...but I would not feel confident teaching this to Grant."_ Aw, shoo! Just make sure to have a snack and a couple of thick blankets for this legs. He'll be all right!
The middle number is combat range of the squad. Love this video. I always found it difficult get this to the table. What alternatives would you recommend?
Nothing is quite like this, but there's games like Old School Tactical, with it's fewer rules, or Lock N Load Tactical with it's better production. But nothing quite like this.
It took me a year to get through SK1. I've now progressed to SK2 and yes, the rules get deeper but it does become intuitive. This game has a lot of gears one can select but it is tailored to a niche crowd who are drawn to that, definitely not for mass consumption. That said, the complexity is part of the selling point as it has its own certain elegance to it that is not like anything else, and to that point there's a good reason this system is still around after 40+ years to stand as the basis by which others are compared.
thanks for the insights! I love the tactical platoon/company scale, but I like a more narrative style like Combat Commander. Any other games you can reccommend?
Check out Band of Brothers. I have not played Conflict of Heroes but they seem fairly similar. The system in Band of Brothers is very good but there is a LOT of dice rolling. Not saying it’s all luck but there’s just a lot of it. But it’s a very smart simple system that simulates the tactical environment really well. Jesus bless!✌
6:20 _"Okay, let's proceed to the Phased Fire Phase."_ _"No, wait, first we have to resolve Fired Phase Fire effects!"_ _"God. Can't I just set Phasers to stun?"_ _"You can, but then you can't fire them."_ _"How long since we last slept??"_ _"Don't know. Lost track of time."_ *_*drinks coffee*_* *_*drinks coffee*_*
Interesting review! Whatever else one thinks of ASL in any version, it's been around for decades, and no tactical game has better scenario design for nail-biting finishes. Now will TPA review Panzer Grenadier?
Exactly how i felt when i tried it. I wanted to love it, but could see the commitment involved and the complexity would mean i wouldnt be playing much else on my shelves for the forseeable future.
No doubt. ASL is not a game that you will pull off the shelf for a Saturday night beer & pretzels game. Combat Commander and others fit that bill much better. ASL is there for players who want a deeper, more immersive WWII tactical experience. And it's the only game I play. I play every Friday and Saturday night and currently own nearly 4000 scenarios. I won't live long enough to play what I currently own and the new stuff coming out all the time. We are in a Golden Age of ASL right now with so much new content. We old guard will carry the torch for ASL until the next group of diehards take the handoff.
@@Grumble_Jones_ASL And that's great and it's good we have so many options for people of different stripes. Do you think I would get much out of trying regular SL (I have mainly played combat commander and great war commander)?
@@jays.8621 yes I do. Regular Squad Leader was a bookcase game much like Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader. John Hill never envisioned the move to ASL and commented often that it simply had too much chrome. I myself resisted ASL until 1989. I was angry at having to learn more rules, change all my counters again, etc. Squad Leader is very playable and it definitely a beer & pretzels experience with the option to make it a deeper WWII experience. I would highly recommend regular Squad Leader for someone interested in a fun Saturday night of gaming without committing to the universe of ASL. Now having made the journey into the ASL universe...I'm never leaving...I absolutely love it and the game. I logged my 800th game on 12/31/23 and I'm looking forward to the next 800. I wish I could adequately share the joy I have experience in playing ASL. In 45 minutes, I start my second game of the 2024 season and can't wait to roll for Wind Change!!! Cheers.
@@jays.8621 regular SL had some large issues as they added the modules and the rule set became a mess. There are still those that play SL but to me it’s not worth the investment. I started on SL and loved it dearly but ASL (and by association ASLSK) fixed those issues and more.
They should have included the introduction to the ASL rule book in the starter kits. There aren’t nearly as many rules as it appears. For infantry movement, 90+% of the time you’ll be using basic movement. Rarely, it pays to use double time or dash or assault movement, or bypass movement. But if you’re not familiar with those rules, you can always use basic movement which is quite simple.
I have all four Starter Kits for ASL. I have played the 1st and the 4th. Still need to crack into 2 and 3. I have decided to stay in the Starter Kit run, and not go into full ASL. I would love if they could re-release Decision at Elst so I could get it.
As the saying goes "ASL isn't a game.....it's a lifestyle." You did a really solid job of nailing this objectively. Been playing ASLSK and ASL for 30+ years, and while it's well documented and has a great community, lots of other games out there that are terrific as well. Back in the day, ASL was all there was....so glad to see ASL and the rest of the wargaming community grow. Also, HUGE secondhand market for ASL stuff.....so may pay for the rest of your games!
I strongly suggest you keep SK 1 - 3 as it gets you all the way to tanks. Decision at Elst is also a great addition for the campaign aspect. I think you should at least try the 2nd scenario "War of the Rats" that way you get to learn how elegant the machine gun system is
True and the ongoing joke (true too) is that the perfect game of ASL has never been played. After playing ASL for 35 years, I still stumble here and there and learn and unlearn rules. I'm a game that hates rules and I still have been able to enjoy and love the game.
I think I bought this about 5 or 6 years ago and have never played it 😬 Every time I've looked at the rulebook and small counters I've just packed it back up and moved to another new shinny game.
Your review was honest and really reflective of the organization of SK. There are pitfalls in the game and the presentation. Charts IMO are overly cumbersome. ASL charts are far better. The Sequence of play, and the Counters that are associated with the SOP are color coded. You probably didn't notice as the SK charts do NOT color code the SOP unlike ASL SOP. A Terrible oversight which hasn't been fixed to my knowledge...sloppy. You got the gist of the game. The most important part of the game is the MPH/Def First Fire. as MOST of the action occurs here and the tense excitement is at it's PEAK. Selling your system. You'll get good prices...Decision at Elst is easy $150...so that could possibly pay for 2 other wargames you are interested in. Getting someone that knows the game is far easier in every game. HOWEVER, don't forego reading the rulebook over your mentor's explanation. He's going to miss the small stuff. SO, reading and asking questions over the basic stuff is the best approach. Don't take his word for it if you have ANY doubts.
I played SL through all the expansions Crescendo of Doom etc, but when I brought ASL, I found out after paying £40 for ASL when Avalon Hill released it in the 1980's, all my counters and map boards were redundant and I had to buy an expansion to play my new rule. ASL sat on my shelf until about 2015 when I sold it for £45 a very poor investment
0:24 LOL ASL! he's already rubbing his eyes, pinching the bridge of the nose, looking like a train wreck, bags under the eyes, before even starting the video! lmao
I prefer the Lock 'n' load system it has a reasonable degree of detail and its far, far easier to learn. Its cheaper as well because each module is playable out of the box it doesnt need counters and maps from other modules (not talking about the starter kits). To me the modular maps are the main negative for all these tactical systems for example look at the modular map for the Pegasus Bridge scenario compared to the map from the ASL historical module.
I own and have played both games (ASL & OST) extensively. ASL has been with me forever and for me it is King, but there are a couple of "game rule abuses" and other ASL rules that annoy me (I'm a retired infantry officer so that happens from time to time) that Old School Tactical eliminates. OST easily has the better board map art and better quality counters (larger and more robust). ASL is more detailed, OST is more streamlined. I have never played a game of ASL where I was free of the rulebook - there is always something small I have forgotten or am not sure about, and then the game is paused for a few minutes until we figure it out. I don't have that problem with OST. With ASL, you can play virtually ANY aspect of WW2 in ANY theatre of war, from partisans to amphibious landings, to glider landings, to battling Japanese troops in caves. It is extremely detailed. All that being said, I enjoy both systems immensely. Dive in and enjoy!
Just started ASL. The game is a blast! The rules aren’t too hard to learn. Plenty of videos on RUclips to help you get started. Lots of people available to play online as well. Very passionate community.
Hey, Alexander--and anyone else who has the original ASL binder--go to the back. Section J depicts Deluxe ASL and pages J5-s uses GHQ's 6mm vehicles on a larger Squad Leader board. Says hexes are 2.2 inches across. Years ago when I frits saw this, I was starting my GHQ collection (now embarrassingly huge) and was intrigued by this new system. Did anyone "out there" actually put GHQ models on these boards? BGG lists Deluxe ASL but no pics of models.
There are no models given in the system. Yes the Deluxe hexes are that wide, the boards are a bit bigger, but there are fewer hexes on them. I think the 'Deluxe ASL' package has just about all the Deluxe version's stuff. I have it on my wishlist as I only ever bought one of the old modules. I think models would really enhance Deluxe - someone must have tried it but I've never seen it done. ASL is kind of miniatures level complexity in a hex and counter wargame.
Hey, thanks for replying. Squad Leader--especially ASL (which was written by lawyers)--is a grognard game. That's good for those who want a truly realistic game but a community of like-minded players is necessary. I have to think someone who started with Squad Leader needs nothing else. IN fact, he doesn't have time for anything else! Back to Deluxe: There's a tradeoff. Bigger, manageable hexes means fewer of them or a huge table. Anyway, have fun.
Yes and the deluxe boards are still popular and the upcoming Winter Offensive Pack from MMP will have new deluxe boards. It's a really unique aspect of ASL. I was a miniature gamer way back and for me ASL is as close to miniatures as I have found with a board game.
Id really like a tactical game "head to head" review about all the systems and why this one is at this level vs this other one at that level. A bit like how Zilla is doing his Bulge game head to head or how you have done other family's of games contrast and compare. I also find ASL just too crunchy for my taste while I love Fighting Formations a lot. I have a trove of tactical games as i like games at this level of operation. How does this compare with Lock and Load? etc love to see an overview video.
@@ThePlayersAid Yeah I remember this. Funny in that video your accent is more "Yank" and less Brit LOL. Wonder why. I too love Ranger. I want it back in publication and more material published!
Middle number is range....incredibly important. Just got into the SKs, and I agree that the rulebook is pretty bad, and ASLSK1's has a number of errors. Fortunately, the popularity of the game means that there are great aids and tutorials on BGG and RUclips, which I use constantly. I don't think I will move into full ASL because life is just too darn short to digest several hundred pages of rules. Still, my favorite part is replaying scenarios (solo) using different tactics and learning what works and what doesn't.
I was frankly surprised and a little disappointed that you'd review a game that's been out for almost 20 years and already has awealth of information available in a lot of places other than TPA. I'm a big fan of your work and have come to appreciate your thorough and thoughtful reviews, primarily of new games and games I haven't heard of. Your grasp of the rules for ASL SK1 were not up to par for a review of your normal standard, Alex. The middle number is not used?! That's range my friend. I'm glad you got to Line of Site at the end, which is one of the most important aspects to grasp. You also used a word I agree with to describe the experience: work. I've had and played the series since basic Squad Leader and have bought and sold into the entire ASL (minus action packs) 3 different times over the last 24 years. I also bought and played the SKs, which are certainly less of a drain than full ASL so I think you did a nice and objective job describing why it wasn't for you. As you know there are legions of ASL fans and good for them, I used to be one too. I'm just curious who all these people are you said at the beginning we asking you to review ASL SK1? And as mentioned, you are normally much more thoroughly prepared to describe key game concepts so I'll give you just having a bad day, mate. Back to the new stuff please. ;) Cheers!
I kind of gave up ever seeing this review :p I play a fair bit of ASL. I think that, and Magic Realms are my two most played games. I have played most of the other more modern tactical systems out there, but the big reason I keep going back to ASL is the narrative it generates. None of the other games come close. Plus, the ELR mechanic is pretty unique to tactical games in that you see your fighting force degrade over the duration of the firefight, it makes fresh troops a literal breath of fresh air! That said, I can't imagine playing a move a week having to take it down and then put it back up, I think that's the last thing you should do in a tactical game as you do lose a lot of the battle's flow and narrative. The middle number, not the exponent is very important even in ASLK - it's the range of your weapons. :) Each to their own though - at least you tried it and gave your honest view of it. (btw started watching your retrospective video and I'm putting a lot of money on Alexander being a software developer!
If any of you speak Spanish, go and check these absolutely amazing tutorials by Agusti Barrio Ruiz: ruclips.net/p/PLUabRDfVUQQN9AvhTOtnvjhC6JjASrnUi You will start playing ASLSK in no time (improving your Spanish will be a bonus ;-)
Not trying to sway you, I get it , ASL is not your game, But learning via little sessions spread over a month will not give you the flow of turns/phases, and honestly not a good way to learn any game especially anything as deep as ASL. That said my stuff has not been on the table in some time, but still the best and my fav squad level tactical system.
I agree. He should stick (or be forced) to a strict regimen of daily play, several hours at a time. Preferably in a remote/secluded location from which he cannot escape, and in which there's only rulebooks scattered about and nothing else. 👌
Most of the wargames I've seen you guys review are at the Strategic, Operational, or "Battle" level. That's not to say that you didn't review some Tactical level games. But usually, that's not what I've seen on your channel. As I don't know you personally, and based solely on your wargame video content, it seems that you stepped out your comfort zone and played your first "true" tactical / skirmish level game. SL / ASLSK / ASL provides a more detailed experience than similar more approachable tactical level games (such as Conflict of Heroes, Heroes of Normandy, Old School Tactical, etc.). SL / ASLSK / ASL are also not introductory tactical level games. Your reaction is not uncommon. I found it entertaining that you stated that ASLSK is "not your forte", and "its not for me". Yet, you were excited and enthusiastic about describing game play (I'm writing this as I watch your video). I've seen similar reactions with people that are learning to play other games that are a "lifestyle" game (Star Fleet Battles, World in Flames, Chess, Go, various miniature wargames, etc.) If you let it, ASL will get under your skin. If it does, many of the simpler tactical games will seem extremely bland in comparison. Thanks for "finally" reviewing it :) Keep cranking out the great videos!
He even said in past, unrelated videos that he is the "rules reader" of the group and that he enjoys reading rules on his spare time for fun, even for games he's not playing. I was surprised how he chose to go the "teach me"/blind route for this one, instead of taking it upon himself to dive deep into the rules beforehand. Maybe it even changed the experience a bit, with the feeling of being railroaded through the procedures upsetting him, given he's usually the teacher.
I would say that full ASL is more simulation than game. ASL Starter Kits are certainly more accessible but still more simulation than game. I play the starter kits and have been gently pushed in the direction of full ASL but it seems like far too much hard work and learning the rules is a full time job, and I already have one :)
I think ASL/ASLSK are in that category of games that you just can't play from time to time and enjoy it. I think it would be very difficult for an occasional player to really enjoy it.
It's much more granular at a tactical level, with a significant number of different SOP phases each with their own idiosyncrasies, so I would say yes. And that's just the smallest, simplest scenario.
@@ThePlayersAid I’m currently playing South China Sea by Compass. Each Military Turn has 8 phases. While it’s true that many of the phases don’t occur each turn, the same is true for ASL. I just don’t think the basic game of ASL is as bad as people think.
The ASLSK's are great...my issue is that for the amount of time invested in rules "learning", you can play a vast assortmant of war games that are as fun. if not more so. Also the game itself is archaic. There is ZERO need for the counters to be the crap quality they are, as the starter kits are essentially their own thing and would not ostricize ASL players by implementing a modern counter style/size. The game componments in general reek of a bygone era of simplicity due to cost. This imho is the main deterant to the ASL system...it looks OLD. Paying hundreds of dollars just to the get the minimum needed to play ASL leaves quite a sour taste in your m,otuh when you see competing companies producing oustanding components at the same price point. Don't get me wrong, I own many of the ASLSK/ASL games, but I would mu rather play something else. The only thing missing from a brand new copy of Beyond Valor is the musty smell.
Been playing Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader since 1978. Mastering the Sequence of Play is the key to the game. And once you do, no other game's sequence of play will ever rival it. The ability in ASL to defensive fire during your opponent's movement phase sets this game apart from almost anything else. Watching your line hold off a human wave assault by Russians or Communist Chinese or repelling a German assault in Stalingrad showcase the excellence of ASL's sequence of play. ASL Starter Kit is a great way for a new player to engage with the game before progressing on to full ASL and the world of World War II that ASL opens up. Fighting for the Tractor Works on maps of the actual Stalingrad location is unlike anything else you can experience. Playing the glider assault on Pegasus Bridge is an absolutely amazing game moment. Last year, I played the assault on Pointe du Hoc on a map of that battlefield. My Rangers landed, and scaled the cliffs and took out the German bunkers and repelled the German counter-attack for the win. I could go on endlessly regarding the great game moments that this game provides. The rules, while expansive are easily referenced as needed during game play. And keep in mind that the average scenario rarely requires any more than the core rules for moving, firing, etc. When you are ready, you can expand your horizons and take the battle into North Africa and the Pacific, which do require additional rules knowledge related to the differences encountered in those unique terrains. But again, the reward in exciting game play makes it all worth while. My love for this game has only grown over time. In 2023, I played 120 games including four at the Kansas City March Madness Tournament. Tournaments are held throughout the US and in Europe and are another fantastic way for new players to learn how to play this game and experience the game play that is unique to Squad Leader. My blog site also provides links to other great ASL resources to allow you to more fully explore this fantastic game and decide for yourself if ASL is for you. boxcarsagainaslblog.blogspot.com/
Historical ASL maps and scenarios are the main reason I’m playing it .
I agree. ASL is hard as hell but it is a great game. Many tactical games are not tactical at all. I do hope one day my modern tactical game will be released and you will have another to play. Maybe one day.
Nice post and the enthusiasm.
I purchased the electronic rules and looking at getting st mere elglise. I gave the core box sets. Never played , I know.... But do you pla y the campaigns?
I agree...no other games sequence of play will rival ASL. In the same way a NYC White Pages phone book will never be "rrivaled"...it's not a good thing.
It was fun playing ASL Starter kit with Alexander. He picked it up amazingly quickly we only rewound a few times. I grew up playing full ASL, but after a move I never found another opponent. That all happened last century. I sold off my ASL stuff after a few years. Then on a whim I picked up the starter kit ten-fifteen years ago. I managed to play a few times, but it had been a few years since I played. One issue I had teaching, was accidently teaching you full ASL. MMP did an amazing job in distilling down ASL to the ASL Starter Kit. Part of the distilling process is removing rules and remembering which rules don't apply to the starter kit can be tricky. The rules are dense, and the phases are a bit tricky, but for me, that is the appeal, and after a few games it seems to make sense, and encourage behavior that models the combat tactics depicted as much as a game can do that. All I know is that I have a certain mood when playing certain games, some combination of mental satisfaction, pleasure, and good stress that brings an unconscious smile to my face ASL is one of them. Dibs on Decision at Elst. :)
LOL… when he said he had Elst my ears perked up.
Yes this is what I'd think teaching starter kit. Thinking 'what have they removed?'
That was like watching David Carradine walk across the rice paper in Kung Fu. Well done Grasshopper, you managed that without unleashing a horde of enraged ASL players on yourself. 😅
No kidding right? I was waiting forAlexander to just blurt out how this game is ridiculous in it's level of book keeping, but he walked the fence like a career politician. lol
I love ASL, I have all of the modules(both starter kit and the full version) and play them all the time with my fiancee. I was waiting for you guys to do a review of the system. All that being said, I can totally understand why many people don't get further into it. I'm sure many, if not most, play "Retaking Vierville" and never pick it up again. Thanks for giving my favorite war game system a college try and keep up the great content!
With your fiancee.... fabulous!
I enjoyed your take on ASLSK. I played a lot of ASL when I was younger, transitioning from Squad Leader. As I got older I sold it all off. On a whim I bought some starter kits and started to play again. It was ok, I was managing to get through it and remembered more than expected. However, I played a bit of Old School Tactical and it dawned on me I could play a tactical system similar to what I knew without the complexity. Moved to OST and haven’t looked back!
Complex games pose a challenge the buyer/enthusiast doesn't usually consider: He has to learn all the rules AND find someone else who is willing to learn all the rules, too! That is a greater challenge than mastering the game oneself.
Something that VASL [Virtual ASL] helps with a lot. Our community is worldwide now and if you want to play against someone else, you can.
Most players know about 50% of the rules. And they play those incorrectly/forget some times. It's part of the experience.
I'm an ASL player, but yes, this is hardcore. It's based on a simple system of phases in 1977, but the amount of stuff being hung on that sequence of play is now so huge it does tend to creak like an old bridge. And fair play for giving this a go - it definitely isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea.
The ASL and ASLSK community is very welcoming. We realize that the system can be very daunting to learn. There are always people willing to teach how to play the game, especially using VASL [Virtual ASL] using VASSAL. On the 400+ page rule book: there is a lot there but you only need to learn 10% of the rules that are used most of the time. The rest are special rules that you generally access when your scenario requires them. We all reference the Rulebook in those situations.
The issues lies in that learning to use Vassal is yet another hurdle. There are soo many games we will never have time to play, that investing the majority of your time into just one is a prospect fewer and fewer people are interested in doing.
@@MoragTong_ I can't agree with you at all. Vassal can be mastered in one session and opens a world FULL of opponents to you. It takes less time than learning a game and provides you with an infinite number of opponents to play against.
0:27 "ohhh this game" 😭😭
If people want to learn more about ASL (and SK) I have over 200 instructional videos on my channel. The Starter Kit system is amazingly approachable. Learning the entire SK system I believe is only 36 pages, which is significantly shorter than most hex and counter games out there. Learning just the infantry rules is only about 8 pages. EIGHT! Since when has 8 pages become too much for wargamers? 😂 The only downside is that the rulebook is poorly organized as they converted the legalese rules of full ASL into more narrative rules. It doesn't work well with a tactical, phase based system like ASL.
I can personally vouch for this channel. I have played ASL for most of my 59 years, and this particular gentleman explains things easily and with lots of examples of play. ASL is the King
Your ASLAcademy to me is the best teaching tool on the web. Well made, very professional and entertaining.
36 pages is "significantly shorter" than most hex and counter games out there? Uh.... No.
@@vtbiker7246 He was too kind to say, "significantly shorter than most hex and counter games worth playing..."
Welcome to the Dark Side ™
I pulled this off my shelf of shame over Christmas break and ended up playing 5 of the 6 scenarios against myself 😂, like 16 hours worth of solo play. I was surprised how much fun I had! Totally not for everyone. I got Beyond Valor and the full rule book in the mail yesterday. That said, if I want to play something tactical with another person I’d totally bring out CC:E, which also tells an amazing story with every play.
Excellent , Alex , I sort of knew this was coming, definitely sticking to up front, don't care if it's daddy's favourite, playable easy to set up n have another go boyo 😮😎🌱⚡👍
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I concur with you 100%, though I did not keep any of my ASL stuff. The rules were too impenetrable. Combat Commander is my go-to for this scale of tactical WWII game.
I think it’s great for you try it because it’s such a long lasting game that impacts the designs of many games. If anything, even if this is your only experience, you’ve now seen what it’s about.
I’m really amused to see you review this. It does seem to be the very deep end of tactical wargames. I enjoy a variety of wargames and I’m also curious to experience this one day. I really love Combat Commander and I’ve also learned Last Hundred Yards and Panzer/MBT. I’d probably not bother to go further than Starter Kit #1.
Thanks very much for this video and the commentary.
When Squad Leader and then Advanced Squad Leader appeared many years ago, they were huge steps forward in wargaming and at the tactical level in particular. Now, after the many variations and derivations, returning to ASL in the Starter Kit mode is a collision of nostalgia and newness--"newness" in the sense that there's so many other options out there now which emphasize other aspects of small-unit engagement. ASL/ASLSK is about bringing firepower to bear (something that's especially evident in the modules that follow when artillery and tanks come into play); 'Band of Brothers" is somewhat lighter fare that's meant to be thematic rather than emblematic; 'Combat Commander' strikes me as managing chaos; 'Last Hundred Yards' about fire-and-movement both, in a way ASL, despite its efforts, never really was or is; and 'Fields of Fire' focuses on communication and coordination, the management of squads amidst uncertainty. I can well understand why players who adore Combat Commander's gameplay would find ASLSK off-putting, in part because of the complexity and the demands made on the player to react to the battlefield instead of the cards being held.
Your reaction and your insights were, as ever, fascinating. I'd be very interested to see you and Grant play a game in the new format, and see Grant's reaction to a very different sort of lifting that ASLSK imposes on the player. I wonder how interested he is in ASL/ASLSK.
Another thing about the sequence of play.
In almost every other game, the SOP is just stepwise perform actions and are mostly administrative.
In SK/ASL the SOP goes far beyond that. What you perform in the Rally phase (Phase 1) affects many other phases in the game. Activity on one phase will always impact, sometimes to a LARGE extent, other phases of the game. So ALL phases are interconnected on planning what you need to get done THAT turn and the succeeding turns.
It's like a basic wargame is just turning the key to start your car and then gas and brake pedals control the action.
Whereas, SK/ASL, Knowing the capability of your engine, tires, Gas quality, weight in vehicle, and center of balance of the car will need to be known to drive effectively.
Some Gamers just want to drive...others want to PERFORM.
Great to see some time given to the grandaddy of tactical war games. This game (SL) came out like FORTY SEVEN YEARS ago! There aren't many games (war games) that can make a claim like that. Great vid Alexander! 🍻
Ohhh My Godddd, I never thought this would happen
Asl is the complex grandparent of all tactical games. I am glad you have started a stream on these . I agree the complexity is there. I still need to decide do i take the plunge, the time and can i solitaire!!!
That game looks really good, fun, and reasonably realistic. My father has all those old squad leader games in storage. I will ask him to buy this one. My older brothers are off to the university but I said I would play this game with him.
My sisters pitched in and off we go.
I started on Squad Leader when I was in the navy back in the seventies. I ended up with ASL and all of the modules. I played it solitaire. I can imagine the arguments over rules that would have occurred if I played the game someone else.
There's a lot of variety in ASL, especially when you add more starter kits or modules. Once you have worked you way through ASLSK 1, 2 and 3 and the expansions it becomes much easier to learn and appreciate. ASLSK and ASL has a great deal of depth, but it does take time to learn. In order to really appreciate it, you have to be willing to commit to it. It's not a game for a casual gamer, you have to commit to it, if you don't have the desire to commit to the game this system is probably not for you.
"If you don't have the desire to commit to ONE game, this system is probably not for you." fixed. :)
Thanks for the review. I played SL back in the 80's, pre-ASL. I felt like the rules got out of control and I sold my games a few years ago. These days, I would much rather roll out Commands and Colors and have a fun 1-hour game...life is too short!
One could say learning ASL is a game all on its own and your satisfaction with that part of it will help define your experience with the game as a whole. It requires a certain mindset, not necessarily greater concentration or intelligence. Some people will be wired for it and some will not. I haven't been entirely successful with it yet, but I still find it appealing. I have seen people who play massive super-detailed operational games who don't like ASL, and vice versa. There are so many options of games and systems and ways to play and types of games to play, it's important to find what works for you and cut yourself some slack when learning and playing the things that don't work as well for you. Or don't bother. Not everyone is bound to like every single good game. That doesn't make the games or the people less good :).
Hi Alexander, thanks for this review, I love it.
When I was young in the 80's, I only played SL then ASL, with a few other wargames that used not much more than 5% of my playing time.
Then I stopped playing wargames at all while I entered my professional carrer, up to around 2010, when I came back to war games, many of them then. I found I preferred operational scale games, but after a few years I came back to ASL at my local Paris club, and it was again a blast.
Since then I tried many other tactical WWII or WWIII games, and I have been disappointed with all of them, even the best produced with incredible components.
I believe ASL rules on the tactical modern warfare realm, and I felt in your voice that you agreed to this during this video, enthusiasm, maybe I'm wrong.
What it takes is reading the full rulebook cover to cover each year, but that's such a good investment.
However, I now prefer operational scale games, and I don't play a lot of ASL games. But I always love it when some player proposes we play an ASL scenario.
Also, this game has another quality I believe : it is the only one I know where you can play a game in 4 hours when the rulebook is more than 100 pages!
When you come to France I'll be happy to play a game with you, ASL or other.
;-)
The interactive movement/defensive fire phase didn't used to be so complicated, what with all the first fire, defensive fire, final fire, etc. In Squad Leader it was just defensive fire and that was it. But this wasn't granular enough for the realism nuts, so ASL broke that down into more sub-steps, and turned a fairly streamlined sequence of play into a quagmire of move-and-take-fire micro-steps. It's a major reason I tend to just stick with classic Squad Leader over ASL/ASLSK.
I think with ONE more playing of SK, Alex's channel will turn into another ASL channel....ROFL
Alexander looked like a fine how a fine wine connaisseur that just had his first glass of moonshine, but he delivered a clear and level headed summary of the ASL system.
I suggest to keep SK1 and Decision at Elst. Decision at Elst has a campaign game.and hiatorical map and rules which is a different experience from your regular scenarios. Its also the only SK historical game so far and out of print and will most likely not be reprinted
thank you again and again
been so long since I played this, such a good game
Timely as I've just been starting to look over the rules.
I played ASL for years and gave it up around 10 years ago. I decided to pick up the ASLSK and I have been glad I did. I would never go back to full-blown ASL, However, I have truly enjoyed playing the lighter SK. I find it odd, that you all had issues with the rules. You play games like EOTS, Fields of Fire, and the COIN games. I think those are just as hard as ASLSK. I am still lost on games like Fire on the Lake and Labyrinth haha. I have no clue.. I have to be honest that I love playing Combat Commander more, but It seems I always have an ASLSK game going on as well. The SOP is the key to the ASLSK, I still keep my laminated copy of the SOP next to me for every game. Thank you for being open-minded and giving it a try. It is not for everyone, and I appreciate your honesty concerning your thoughts on the game. Keep up the great work.
Definitely check it out with a veteran player who can show you the ropes.
Oh finally!
Phew...I've been wondering about this game for a while now, but like you, I'm thinking easier is the way to go these days!
I already have enough heavy games to keep me occupied😃
Could tell from the opening moments of the vid that you were not going to like it. Personally I love this game, don't play it all the time and sometimes have very long stretches between plays but when I pick it up again I always get a huge kick out of it. Always exciting and tells a great story. Yea learning it the first time can be a slog but once you have learned and internalized the basic game sequence and concepts it is like riding a bicycle, you will never forget it whenever you pick it up again. If you are going to get rid of stuff do keep the SK modules. Don't think they will take up too much space and if you get rid of them you will spend gobs of cash getting it back if you change your mind later.. You can get rid of the regular modules, I think you will probably never play them, but you could just play ASLSK and get most of the ASL experience. There are getting to be a large number of ASLSK scenarios and maps and counters these days, a complete game system within a game. Personally I have fallen back into the SKs and will only be playing those for a while, perhaps the next several years but I will get back into the full game again eventually. Still, both games are just awesome WWII tactical sandboxes and fascinating puzzles to solve and I just love this system. Haven't played in a while and your somewhat blasé review (just teasing) has me thinking about it again and exceited to scratch the itch again.
Personally Combat Commander just doesn't do it for me and I have collected them all. No tanks, it just isn't a complete WWII squad level system and I find the whole card management bit a real distraction from what is going on with the counters on the board.
There are over a hundred official MMP scenarios for ASLSK!
and I believe another historical module based in Normandy is in the works.
@@Grumble_Jones_ASL there is
I bought the starter kit 1 a while back. I punched the chits and organized into plastic trays. Played this when I was a teenager way back when. I would have gladly sent you my copy and paid for shipping! What I want is the full game in one box, not just the starter kit. But I was not willing to dig into my 401K to pay for the exhorbitant cost from MMP. Now in the past I loved the crunchiness of the game and the relatively small footprint. You could set up and play anywhere basically. What I wish was that the product was sold by GMT--I could then buy it from Amazon and not direct from the supplier. I simply do not trust the fulfillment from small game companies; example, you pay for a game then receive it 17 months later.
MMP doesn’t work that way. You pay when the game ships not when you preorder [the same as GMT, BTW], let’s not start telling tales.
I am 21 seconds into the video and I can already tell where this is going to go.. LOL
😅
It was an honest review. ASL and ASLSK isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I commend him for trying it. And who knows, after having let it settle a bit he may be back.
I've tried both ASL Beyond Valor and SK#1. I bounced off both. I'm just glad I didn't do my usual 'buy everything before I try it' gambit. I guess I'll stick with my other 50+ inferior wargames 😂.
ASL is one of those lifestyle games. A big investment 😊
More life choice than life style. One rabid player I know has a vanity license plate on his car - PLAYASL
Excellent review and overview. I played SL/ASL in the 1980s in high school and college. And then I moved on to mini wargaming over the subsequent decades. Last year I tried to return to ASL with the help of a group who plays in and runs tournies. So they know the game and were great teachers.
But I just couldn't stay with it. It felt like doing a lot of extra steps and processing to achieve often ludicrous results. Meanwhile, modern game designs have often succeeding in providing a more realistic result with far less overhead.
Two examples of things that really turned me off. First, "bypass movement". It allows a player to trace a path for a unit moving through the hex using the actual terrain illustrations rather than the hex writ large to move much faster. I guess the developers felt it was more detailed/realistic. But it undermined the valuable abstraction of terrain in a hex slowing tactical movement. Soldiers don't waltz past buildings when in close contact. Someone might be in that building ready to pop you. So you move SLOWER in close terrain rather than faster.
Second, towed weapons act like video game quick scoping sniper rifles. My opponent had an 88 that engaged a squad off to one side. It then rapidly swiveled to engage a single officer running from cover to nearby cover. It felt like a Benny Hill skit. All of those fire phases and admin counters and it still couldn't accurately portray how such a weapon operates.
There's a really great game down under the many layers of whacky detail. I've been tempted to rewrite the rules but ended up doing that with the Lock n Load tactical series since it has prettier components.
PS I forgot one more absurd thing. The way the CRT works, there's an incentive to NOT fire a squad's supporting LMG since it won't shift a column and might breakdown. 🙄 That sort of artifice really breaks the game's narrative quality.
LoL! It's not for everyone...
I did find the first Starter kit scenario to be somewhat bland without support weapons. The ASL experience is far richer in narrative and therefore far more enjoyable , never mind the expanded scope of being able to play just about any conflict you can think of in WW2.
All those possibilities are a bit overwhelming really. Definitely the best way to learn is from an experienced player.
As someone who has collected all of classic Squad Leader and has skimmed it enough to know where it's lacking, diving into ASL and its starter kits has been awfully tempting. Not sure I can justify taking out a third mortgage on the second house I'd need to buy in order to both pay for it all and have room to store it, though
I was an original SL fan back in the late 70's / early 80's. After a 25 year absence from gaming I tried to get into ASL but just couldn't find enjoyment in it. I spent way too much time thumbing through rules instead of actually playing the game. I have since moved to The Last Hundred Yards and find it much more enjoyable and the rules less dense.
I don't know the Starter Kit rules, but I play ASL for 30 or so years. I just played a "Hatten in Flames" solo mission today ... the whole day long. Yes. It is really very complicated, I would say. Every time I play it, I have to look into the rules for this and that even after playing so many years. But it is simply the best tactical WW2 game out there in my opinion. I think that ASL is a hobby for itself. It is not a game You pick up and play easily.
Finally!!
4:40 _"...but I would not feel confident teaching this to Grant."_
Aw, shoo! Just make sure to have a snack and a couple of thick blankets for this legs. He'll be all right!
Haha, of course you roll snake-eyes while rallying the unit under DM! Saving all your great success rolls for the demo.
That was hilarious...he was excited to roll this Faux rally DR.... THAT is SK/ASL all rolled up into a 10 sec clip
The middle number is combat range of the squad. Love this video. I always found it difficult get this to the table. What alternatives would you recommend?
Nothing is quite like this, but there's games like Old School Tactical, with it's fewer rules, or Lock N Load Tactical with it's better production. But nothing quite like this.
It took me a year to get through SK1. I've now progressed to SK2 and yes, the rules get deeper but it does become intuitive. This game has a lot of gears one can select but it is tailored to a niche crowd who are drawn to that, definitely not for mass consumption. That said, the complexity is part of the selling point as it has its own certain elegance to it that is not like anything else, and to that point there's a good reason this system is still around after 40+ years to stand as the basis by which others are compared.
Critter in the wild! Dagger dagger dagger!
thanks for the insights! I love the tactical platoon/company scale, but I like a more narrative style like Combat Commander. Any other games you can reccommend?
Look at Conflict of Heroes, and the upcoming '85 Graveyard of Empires from Flying Pig Games.
Check out Band of Brothers. I have not played Conflict of Heroes but they seem fairly similar. The system in Band of Brothers is very good but there is a LOT of dice rolling. Not saying it’s all luck but there’s just a lot of it. But it’s a very smart simple system that simulates the tactical environment really well. Jesus bless!✌
*I mean look into it AS WELL as Conflict of Heroes and ‘85.
6:20 _"Okay, let's proceed to the Phased Fire Phase."_
_"No, wait, first we have to resolve Fired Phase Fire effects!"_
_"God. Can't I just set Phasers to stun?"_
_"You can, but then you can't fire them."_
_"How long since we last slept??"_
_"Don't know. Lost track of time."_
*_*drinks coffee*_*
*_*drinks coffee*_*
Interesting review! Whatever else one thinks of ASL in any version, it's been around for decades, and no tactical game has better scenario design for nail-biting finishes. Now will TPA review Panzer Grenadier?
Exactly how i felt when i tried it. I wanted to love it, but could see the commitment involved and the complexity would mean i wouldnt be playing much else on my shelves for the forseeable future.
No doubt. ASL is not a game that you will pull off the shelf for a Saturday night beer & pretzels game. Combat Commander and others fit that bill much better. ASL is there for players who want a deeper, more immersive WWII tactical experience. And it's the only game I play. I play every Friday and Saturday night and currently own nearly 4000 scenarios. I won't live long enough to play what I currently own and the new stuff coming out all the time. We are in a Golden Age of ASL right now with so much new content. We old guard will carry the torch for ASL until the next group of diehards take the handoff.
@@Grumble_Jones_ASL And that's great and it's good we have so many options for people of different stripes. Do you think I would get much out of trying regular SL (I have mainly played combat commander and great war commander)?
@@jays.8621 yes I do. Regular Squad Leader was a bookcase game much like Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader. John Hill never envisioned the move to ASL and commented often that it simply had too much chrome. I myself resisted ASL until 1989. I was angry at having to learn more rules, change all my counters again, etc. Squad Leader is very playable and it definitely a beer & pretzels experience with the option to make it a deeper WWII experience. I would highly recommend regular Squad Leader for someone interested in a fun Saturday night of gaming without committing to the universe of ASL. Now having made the journey into the ASL universe...I'm never leaving...I absolutely love it and the game. I logged my 800th game on 12/31/23 and I'm looking forward to the next 800. I wish I could adequately share the joy I have experience in playing ASL. In 45 minutes, I start my second game of the 2024 season and can't wait to roll for Wind Change!!! Cheers.
@@jays.8621 regular SL had some large issues as they added the modules and the rule set became a mess. There are still those that play SL but to me it’s not worth the investment. I started on SL and loved it dearly but ASL (and by association ASLSK) fixed those issues and more.
They should have included the introduction to the ASL rule book in the starter kits. There aren’t nearly as many rules as it appears. For infantry movement, 90+% of the time you’ll be using basic movement. Rarely, it pays to use double time or dash or assault movement, or bypass movement. But if you’re not familiar with those rules, you can always use basic movement which is quite simple.
I have all four Starter Kits for ASL. I have played the 1st and the 4th. Still need to crack into 2 and 3. I have decided to stay in the Starter Kit run, and not go into full ASL. I would love if they could re-release Decision at Elst so I could get it.
As the saying goes "ASL isn't a game.....it's a lifestyle." You did a really solid job of nailing this objectively. Been playing ASLSK and ASL for 30+ years, and while it's well documented and has a great community, lots of other games out there that are terrific as well. Back in the day, ASL was all there was....so glad to see ASL and the rest of the wargaming community grow. Also, HUGE secondhand market for ASL stuff.....so may pay for the rest of your games!
We say "ASL isn't a game, it's a cult" LOL.
I have that. Will sell it sometime
I strongly suggest you keep SK 1 - 3 as it gets you all the way to tanks. Decision at Elst is also a great addition for the campaign aspect. I think you should at least try the 2nd scenario "War of the Rats" that way you get to learn how elegant the machine gun system is
After twenty years or so you get the hang of the rules and the game gets much easier.
True and the ongoing joke (true too) is that the perfect game of ASL has never been played. After playing ASL for 35 years, I still stumble here and there and learn and unlearn rules. I'm a game that hates rules and I still have been able to enjoy and love the game.
I think I bought this about 5 or 6 years ago and have never played it 😬
Every time I've looked at the rulebook and small counters I've just packed it back up and moved to another new shinny game.
Your review was honest and really reflective of the organization of SK.
There are pitfalls in the game and the presentation.
Charts IMO are overly cumbersome. ASL charts are far better.
The Sequence of play, and the Counters that are associated with the SOP are color coded. You probably didn't notice as the SK charts do NOT color code the SOP unlike ASL SOP. A Terrible oversight which hasn't been fixed to my knowledge...sloppy.
You got the gist of the game. The most important part of the game is the MPH/Def First Fire. as MOST of the action occurs here and the tense excitement is at it's PEAK.
Selling your system. You'll get good prices...Decision at Elst is easy $150...so that could possibly pay for 2 other wargames you are interested in.
Getting someone that knows the game is far easier in every game. HOWEVER, don't forego reading the rulebook over your mentor's explanation. He's going to miss the small stuff. SO, reading and asking questions over the basic stuff is the best approach. Don't take his word for it if you have ANY doubts.
I played SL through all the expansions Crescendo of Doom etc, but when I brought ASL, I found out after paying £40 for ASL when Avalon Hill released it in the 1980's, all my counters and map boards were redundant and I had to buy an expansion to play my new rule. ASL sat on my shelf until about 2015 when I sold it for £45 a very poor investment
0:24 LOL ASL! he's already rubbing his eyes, pinching the bridge of the nose, looking like a train wreck, bags under the eyes, before even starting the video! lmao
I prefer the Lock 'n' load system it has a reasonable degree of detail and its far, far easier to learn. Its cheaper as well because each module is playable out of the box it doesnt need counters and maps from other modules (not talking about the starter kits). To me the modular maps are the main negative for all these tactical systems for example look at the modular map for the Pegasus Bridge scenario compared to the map from the ASL historical module.
How do you feel this to compares to something like Old School Tactical?
OST is significantly less complicated than this, albeit still a meaty tactical system. And by complex, I really mean fewer procedural steps etc.
I own and have played both games (ASL & OST) extensively. ASL has been with me forever and for me it is King, but there are a couple of "game rule abuses" and other ASL rules that annoy me (I'm a retired infantry officer so that happens from time to time) that Old School Tactical eliminates. OST easily has the better board map art and better quality counters (larger and more robust). ASL is more detailed, OST is more streamlined. I have never played a game of ASL where I was free of the rulebook - there is always something small I have forgotten or am not sure about, and then the game is paused for a few minutes until we figure it out. I don't have that problem with OST. With ASL, you can play virtually ANY aspect of WW2 in ANY theatre of war, from partisans to amphibious landings, to glider landings, to battling Japanese troops in caves. It is extremely detailed. All that being said, I enjoy both systems immensely. Dive in and enjoy!
And to think some people think GBOH is a complex game!
Just started ASL. The game is a blast! The rules aren’t too hard to learn. Plenty of videos on RUclips to help you get started. Lots of people available to play online as well. Very passionate community.
One can easily see you are struggling even to know how to present this material :). Well done.
DM is Desperation Morale, which I think you can probably relate to ;)
I'm a bit of a Desperado Moralist myself ( o.o)
Hey, Alexander--and anyone else who has the original ASL binder--go to the back. Section J depicts Deluxe ASL and pages J5-s uses GHQ's 6mm vehicles on a larger Squad Leader board. Says hexes are 2.2 inches across. Years ago when I frits saw this, I was starting my GHQ collection (now embarrassingly huge) and was intrigued by this new system. Did anyone "out there" actually put GHQ models on these boards? BGG lists Deluxe ASL but no pics of models.
There are no models given in the system. Yes the Deluxe hexes are that wide, the boards are a bit bigger, but there are fewer hexes on them. I think the 'Deluxe ASL' package has just about all the Deluxe version's stuff. I have it on my wishlist as I only ever bought one of the old modules. I think models would really enhance Deluxe - someone must have tried it but I've never seen it done. ASL is kind of miniatures level complexity in a hex and counter wargame.
Hey, thanks for replying. Squad Leader--especially ASL (which was written by lawyers)--is a grognard game. That's good for those who want a truly realistic game but a community of like-minded players is necessary. I have to think someone who started with Squad Leader needs nothing else. IN fact, he doesn't have time for anything else! Back to Deluxe: There's a tradeoff. Bigger, manageable hexes means fewer of them or a huge table. Anyway, have fun.
Yes and the deluxe boards are still popular and the upcoming Winter Offensive Pack from MMP will have new deluxe boards. It's a really unique aspect of ASL. I was a miniature gamer way back and for me ASL is as close to miniatures as I have found with a board game.
Id really like a tactical game "head to head" review about all the systems and why this one is at this level vs this other one at that level. A bit like how Zilla is doing his Bulge game head to head or how you have done other family's of games contrast and compare. I also find ASL just too crunchy for my taste while I love Fighting Formations a lot. I have a trove of tactical games as i like games at this level of operation. How does this compare with Lock and Load? etc love to see an overview video.
Not quite what you're looking for but pretty close: ruclips.net/video/nDpNBKQIWk4/видео.html&pp=ygURdGFjdGljYWwgd2FyZ2FtZXM%3D
@@ThePlayersAid Yeah I remember this. Funny in that video your accent is more "Yank" and less Brit LOL. Wonder why. I too love Ranger. I want it back in publication and more material published!
Middle number is range....incredibly important. Just got into the SKs, and I agree that the rulebook is pretty bad, and ASLSK1's has a number of errors. Fortunately, the popularity of the game means that there are great aids and tutorials on BGG and RUclips, which I use constantly. I don't think I will move into full ASL because life is just too darn short to digest several hundred pages of rules. Still, my favorite part is replaying scenarios (solo) using different tactics and learning what works and what doesn't.
I was frankly surprised and a little disappointed that you'd review a game that's been out for almost 20 years and already has awealth of information available in a lot of places other than TPA. I'm a big fan of your work and have come to appreciate your thorough and thoughtful reviews, primarily of new games and games I haven't heard of. Your grasp of the rules for ASL SK1 were not up to par for a review of your normal standard, Alex. The middle number is not used?! That's range my friend. I'm glad you got to Line of Site at the end, which is one of the most important aspects to grasp. You also used a word I agree with to describe the experience: work. I've had and played the series since basic Squad Leader and have bought and sold into the entire ASL (minus action packs) 3 different times over the last 24 years. I also bought and played the SKs, which are certainly less of a drain than full ASL so I think you did a nice and objective job describing why it wasn't for you. As you know there are legions of ASL fans and good for them, I used to be one too. I'm just curious who all these people are you said at the beginning we asking you to review ASL SK1? And as mentioned, you are normally much more thoroughly prepared to describe key game concepts so I'll give you just having a bad day, mate. Back to the new stuff please. ;) Cheers!
Wow, If you would have waited any longer, you might had be trying ASL Grandpa Kit 😁 Just kidding, better late then never!
I kind of gave up ever seeing this review :p I play a fair bit of ASL. I think that, and Magic Realms are my two most played games. I have played most of the other more modern tactical systems out there, but the big reason I keep going back to ASL is the narrative it generates. None of the other games come close. Plus, the ELR mechanic is pretty unique to tactical games in that you see your fighting force degrade over the duration of the firefight, it makes fresh troops a literal breath of fresh air! That said, I can't imagine playing a move a week having to take it down and then put it back up, I think that's the last thing you should do in a tactical game as you do lose a lot of the battle's flow and narrative. The middle number, not the exponent is very important even in ASLK - it's the range of your weapons. :) Each to their own though - at least you tried it and gave your honest view of it. (btw started watching your retrospective video and I'm putting a lot of money on Alexander being a software developer!
I have to know why you think software dev! Do I give myself away? (I'm not an SD, btw!)
@@ThePlayersAid Just the use of the word 'Retrospective' :)
Im too scared to open the ASL can o worms
If any of you speak Spanish, go and check these absolutely amazing tutorials by Agusti Barrio Ruiz: ruclips.net/p/PLUabRDfVUQQN9AvhTOtnvjhC6JjASrnUi You will start playing ASLSK in no time (improving your Spanish will be a bonus ;-)
Not trying to sway you, I get it , ASL is not your game, But learning via little sessions spread over a month will not give you the flow of turns/phases, and honestly not a good way to learn any game especially anything as deep as ASL. That said my stuff has not been on the table in some time, but still the best and my fav squad level tactical system.
I thought the same thing. He should try another session with the goal of finishing in one play.
I agree. He should stick (or be forced) to a strict regimen of daily play, several hours at a time. Preferably in a remote/secluded location from which he cannot escape, and in which there's only rulebooks scattered about and nothing else. 👌
Most of the wargames I've seen you guys review are at the Strategic, Operational, or "Battle" level. That's not to say that you didn't review some Tactical level games. But usually, that's not what I've seen on your channel.
As I don't know you personally, and based solely on your wargame video content, it seems that you stepped out your comfort zone and played your first "true" tactical / skirmish level game. SL / ASLSK / ASL provides a more detailed experience than similar more approachable tactical level games (such as Conflict of Heroes, Heroes of Normandy, Old School Tactical, etc.). SL / ASLSK / ASL are also not introductory tactical level games. Your reaction is not uncommon.
I found it entertaining that you stated that ASLSK is "not your forte", and "its not for me". Yet, you were excited and enthusiastic about describing game play (I'm writing this as I watch your video). I've seen similar reactions with people that are learning to play other games that are a "lifestyle" game (Star Fleet Battles, World in Flames, Chess, Go, various miniature wargames, etc.) If you let it, ASL will get under your skin. If it does, many of the simpler tactical games will seem extremely bland in comparison.
Thanks for "finally" reviewing it :)
Keep cranking out the great videos!
Yeah, even his distaste of the system showed twinkles in the eyes with his very good description from a first time player
He even said in past, unrelated videos that he is the "rules reader" of the group and that he enjoys reading rules on his spare time for fun, even for games he's not playing. I was surprised how he chose to go the "teach me"/blind route for this one, instead of taking it upon himself to dive deep into the rules beforehand. Maybe it even changed the experience a bit, with the feeling of being railroaded through the procedures upsetting him, given he's usually the teacher.
I would say that full ASL is more simulation than game. ASL Starter Kits are certainly more accessible but still more simulation than game. I play the starter kits and have been gently pushed in the direction of full ASL but it seems like far too much hard work and learning the rules is a full time job, and I already have one :)
Say it ain't so!
I think ASL/ASLSK are in that category of games that you just can't play from time to time and enjoy it. I think it would be very difficult for an occasional player to really enjoy it.
Is it really more complicated than many others you’ve played? I think it gets a bad rap.
It's much more granular at a tactical level, with a significant number of different SOP phases each with their own idiosyncrasies, so I would say yes. And that's just the smallest, simplest scenario.
@@ThePlayersAid I’m currently playing South China Sea by Compass. Each Military Turn has 8 phases. While it’s true that many of the phases don’t occur each turn, the same is true for ASL. I just don’t think the basic game of ASL is as bad as people think.
I know ASL has a huge following, I know its fans love it, but I never could enjoy it. Original SL for me please.
34:25 Say it! Say one more thing! I double dare you, m-f-r!! *_*hovers finger over unsubscribe button menacingly*_* ( ಠДಠ)
The ASLSK's are great...my issue is that for the amount of time invested in rules "learning", you can play a vast assortmant of war games that are as fun. if not more so. Also the game itself is archaic. There is ZERO need for the counters to be the crap quality they are, as the starter kits are essentially their own thing and would not ostricize ASL players by implementing a modern counter style/size. The game componments in general reek of a bygone era of simplicity due to cost. This imho is the main deterant to the ASL system...it looks OLD. Paying hundreds of dollars just to the get the minimum needed to play ASL leaves quite a sour taste in your m,otuh when you see competing companies producing oustanding components at the same price point. Don't get me wrong, I own many of the ASLSK/ASL games, but I would mu rather play something else. The only thing missing from a brand new copy of Beyond Valor is the musty smell.