#10MinuteTalk
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2020
- Jimmy, Mark and Nick Laufenberg discuss their theories and experiences between all the many different grip angles/styles on various bolt action rifles. From lightweight and handy hunting rifles with elegant swept-back grip profiles to heavier profile competition long range guns with completely vertical grip angles. Which one is right for which application and why? As usual, we’d love to hear your input on this matter! What’s your favorite stock and grip profile and why?
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My take on the traditional swept back stock was it was derived out of comfort while carrying it on a sling across your back. You wouldn't want a long protrusion digging into your back. Second, because of the material used. Wood grain is very tough when pressure is applied against the grain. But when pressure is applied with the grain it gives way rather easily. So a vertical hand grip would be at high risk of being broken off. And lastly scabbard fitment. A leather scabbard on your horse was another popular way to carry your rifle in bygone years. So the swept back hand grip gave it a lower profile for a closer fit around the stock to keep debris and water out. If the rifle had a more vertical grip the hole at the entrance of the scabbard would have to be big enough to accommodate it.
Those are the reasons that make sense in my head anyways. Thank you for another interesting and informative video.
Interesting discussion. I've always assumed the stock shape was also related to the materials (wood) that were used. The grip is usually the weakest point and a more vertical grip runs a higher risk of breaking due to grain. But I have no data to support that besides it making sense.
You nailed the answer. The wrist always is the weakest part of a wood stock. If you made a solid wood stock with a zig/zag like that middle rifle, it would snap right there. You could get a more vertical grip if you used “laminated wood”.
It usually comes down to ergonomics for the task at hand to ensure the wrist angle is within the shooter's normal range of motion. The "swept" grip is usually more comfortable for holding a hunting rifle about waist high when walking. If you try this with a vertical grip on a precision rifle for any length of time, it's not as comfortable. As for AR grips on SBRs, a vertical grip places less stress on the wrist when the gun is shouldered and ready to fire. This is especially the case with compressed AR buttstocks.
For shooting upland birds, some shotguns have a straight-through grip with no sweep at-all for shooting standing at a elevation high above you. English grouse hunting for example where you might be shooting nearly straight-up.
Urban legend has it, the shoulders tend to be squarer in competition/bench shooting which suits a vertical grips as opposed to shoulders at 45° for a traditional hunting stance which favours the swept back grip - interesting to see the comments, looking at stock selection for still hunting rifle atm.
Due to a shoulder injury I have my AR stock canted off vertical. Thought it interesting when you asked about canting the rifle grip left or right.
There is a place in my collection for all of them - I prefer swept back grips for hunting rifles that will be shouldered with a sling and carried for miles, with the potential for swinging down for quick shots. I Prefer pistol grips for home defense shotguns or AR’s used for defense or coyote hunting on a tripod. Lastly, I prefer the middle of the road vertical grip on the “crossover rifle.” Although I don’t do competition match shooting, those rifles are fun for plinking, the main go-to predator hunting guns, and they have the flexibility to go hunt big game as well.
I always assumed the traditional swept-back style grip was derived from the fact that all gun stocks were made of wood originally, and you couldn’t shave the wood down in the middle of the grip section without compromising its strength to create a vertical grip. I think the vertical grip crossovers became more popular with the rise of:
1. Synthetic material construction 2. AR and tactical firearms having pistol grips, which influenced the industry and began crossing into the hunting realm
3. Match shooting and hunting rifle hobby and firearm crossover, creating more comfortable versatility
Do an episode on all the Weatherby cartridges!
Traditional grip geometry was a function of the materials used for stocks.
All of them
So my magpul rem 700 stock has mlok all over so does this mean I can use an angled grip or forge grip
I bought my first bolt action, a Ruger American Ranch AR, specifically to handload really quiet 300 Blackout suppressed subsonic rounds. Once I quickly got bored with that, I stopped shooting it. I have a surplus of 300 Blackout in subs and supers that I won't soon deplete.
Instead of selling it and regretting it like I did after selling other firearms, I decided to modify and upgrade it.
I swapped the barrel for a 16" Wilson Combat 300 HAM'R specifically made for the RAR, ditched the bolt handle for a separate handle and knob from Anarchy Outdoors, remounted my SiCo Omega 9k, remounted my Primary Arms 1-6x, and switched out the blah trigger for an amazing Timney.
The most significant upgrade that totally turned a boring and never shot rifle into an exciting 2-3 times a month subMOA dream way dumping the plastic stock for an MDT XRS chassis with the included vertical grip option. The barrel swap and trigger upgrade were significant improvements as far as accuracy, but the XRS chassis made it really fun to shoot.
As a reloader of the 300 HAM'R whose performance is initially limited by the AR magazine 2.260" COAL, now having access to AICS mags with a COAL of 2.5" allows me greater flexibility with load capacity, bullet selection, and seating depth, while still being safe.
I did all of the work myself, even buying a no-go gauge better bracket the headspace sweet spot with the included go gauge that came with the barrel kit.
I hunt with gas guns mostly these days either my 6.5 Grendel or Creedmoor
Great show as always, You guys should take a look at the GRS stocks from a company in Norway 🇳🇴 the ergonomics are superb I use the bifrost and berserk for both steel and hunting they offer the best of both worlds for me 😀
Awesome will check into it!
@@VortexNation Agreed, GRS is a quality stock. I have the Bifrost on my 300 Win mag, recoil reduced due to ergonomic design, multiple adjustability, good weight and no flex.
Grs is my personal favorite. Just put my tikka t3x lite in the warg with the rug over boar bipod.
Utg over boar bipod
Does it have to do with how you carry a rifle while hunting. I would think a 90 d. handle would be more difficult to hold and have the barrel facing the ground.
Just my thoughts !
My thoughts are the “traditional” sweep grip is a holdover from musket and shotgun days. They were not traditional shot from a bench or similar support. The shooter had to make quick instinctively shots with good control and a moving gun.I prefer to shoot my Remington 1100 special field shotgun, which has “no” grip for hunting game in the field over pointing dogs. I assume that the need to control the gun has as much to do with prefer angle as anything.
Used a thumbhole stock back in the 70's to get a more straight grip. My hand was crushed in a car accident and wouldn't rotate forward.
I’ve combed the internet, and I wish I could find something similar to a cheek riser, but for making a sweet grip more vertical. Like on my savage 110 tactical, after shooting prone too long, it kills my wrist, but I don’t want to buy a $700 stock or a chassis that’s too heavy. . .
i looked for one, too. I built a competition 10/22 on a Magpul X-22 stock. Good stock, ridiculously stupid grip angle, imo. No luck finding a vertical grip adapter. I ended up making one and it improved that stock 100%.
To make it was pretty simple. I started with a block of wood cut to a right triangle. Then I began relieving the angled side like a U until it fit the front of the grip. I kept going until I had a vertical grip that wraps around the stock’s grip. Trim/contour the top appropriately to fit up behind the trigger guard.
In my case I wanted it removable. So I drilled perpendicular through the front of the vertical grip and fixed a 1/4” pin. Drilled a matching hole into the front of the stock’s angled grip. Now my grip adapter mounts by pushing it directly into the front of the stock grip.
Bonus: it looks absolutely beautiful and cool as all get out.
Mtd oryx stock is great for me as a chassis rifle as im also not really chassis rifle person but the Oryx is light enough to hunt with and sturdy enough for targets it is a really comfortable chassis to shoot and hold. It is also good value for your money.grip is nice too, not quite vertical just slightly swept or angled back beautiful palm swell also I think the grip as a whole makes the chassis more comfortable.
That stock makes a good paddle
Hi, I'm in a bit of a pickle, I'm going bear hunting in a couple weeks with my dad's old 300 win mag. He passed away around 10 years ago. There's no muzzle brake on it and I'm 13. I want to out a brake on it but I wouldn't want to ruin my dad's gun. Please reply with what I should do.
I would leave it how it is personally. When you are hunting the goal is to not have to shoot more than one time so putting a brake on it would not be that beneficial. And if you do have something in your sights and take a shot, I doubt you will even remember the recoil. Good luck on your hunt!
Leave it and use Remington reduced recoil loads developed for your exact situation! Here they are on Bud’s Gun Shop - www.budsgunshop.com/mobile/product/15932/redirect
One other option if you can afford it is a Witt Machine clamp on muzzle brake. You don't have to have the rifle modified for it so your dad's gun will stay "unmodified"
I've always thought swept back grips were for prone
Do a talk on old cartrages vs the new cartrages that are trying to duplicate them. 6.5x55 vs 6.5cm, 7x57 vs 708. 6cm vs 243 win and so on. I think a lot of the new cartrages just aren't bringing anything new to the table.
I don’t enjoy Going through the woods with a vertical grip. The swift grip is usually my choice in that situation.
Agreed - those feel so much more ergonomic for the potential snap shot or just walking through all the brush.
Wood stocks and high recoil
hunting style is better for light weight standing fast point for hunting ... the other is for sitting , prone . bi-pod hunting with some target.. the other is flat out prone match shooting ..
Keeping the thumb on the same side of the gun as your grip isn't that weird. I've seen alot of lefties do that sort of "monkey claw" grip on their AR so they can hit the safety.
It depends what you doing that determines what side you want to be on...
For me personally I use both
On my AR 15s and AK when shooting standing up or knealing I put my thumb around the grip , on my Ruger Precision and my custom ULR rifle I put my thumb on the side of the grip ,
On my hunting rifle with a thumb hole I out my thumb though the hole... on a precision set up keeping your thumb along the grio provides more accurate trigger pull, behind the grip provides the most positive pressure for controll on an unsupported firearm
Some guy i know, he is super negative to straight angle or slight angled pistol grips, and i tried to reason him to understand it has to do with precision, finger movement and such...but to no avail. I might send him this video..but i guess he will go more into ego mode and defend his "need for machoness", its kinda like..."dude its way more old school, or bad ass with classic grips" bla bla...cheap AK chinese clone pistol grips...(border toxic comments by his part).
I end that conversation with : "its my preference, and my hand wrist is not that nimble to even be able to grip that classical pistol grip. So i beg to differ. 😉
Its your style of preference, but its my preference for ergonomics and usage. Period".
Even with shotgun, i prefer with pistolgrip that is about straight down, or at a slight angle. Super tight handwrists.
I have both style of grips for shotguns: pistol grips allow to keep the gun at ready level for much longer even with one hand (think home defense and LE use) and sporter grips are snag free and more natural to bring to eye level (think hunting and trap shooting). The pistol grip also gives me the option of a folding stock. Under recoil however, pistol grips will beat the crap out of your hand with 00 buck and slugs (specially avoid stocks with “shock absorbent” spring systems as they will transfer much of the recoil from your shoulder to your thumb).
Open grips are faster which is important when an animal jumps out in front of you.
Com'n man it is 2020, do you really need a headsets for the video? Go to Amazon and get a mic for $20. You guys reminded me of Shamwow commercial.
thuan123red this is a video recording of a podcast. The main focus is the audio - the video is just for those who listen at work online on a minimized window. Lots of podcasts use headsets.
Swept stocks come from the old wooden muskets. They keep the design because its cheap and 'traditional hunting rifle style'. There is ZERO benefit to a swept stock over a custom pistol grip style stock / thumbhole.
Do a better job of showing all the rifles or other equipment you are talking about.
To be fair they're in a podcast format talking to each other and not specifically for the viewer. However, I think it would be nice if they had a type of display table and camera set up so that we can see better too.
The “swept stock” is more aesthetically pleasing to most buyers. As they see the newer “pistol grip” style more it all become more popular. Then there’s cost. To update commercial gunstocks it would raise the price of new guns