Thanks for this video. It really helps me for my trio. I have two 3/4 Bruce Barnett Sweater with 1/4 McLean Hatch and 1/4 John Bishop Kelso hens and a pure YLH broodstag given to me by Master Marcus of Lodyes Sisiw Academy.
I'm like 1 youtube video away from selling a bunch of possessions and starting a game fowl breeding program. Not for fighting but the thought of creating a semi wild free range super chicken it so intriguing to me. I want my property populated by wild chickens that 99% take care of themselves year round. They'll roost in the trees, find their own food, cull themselves, restock themselves, and survive predators. I know its possible
I seem to recall another person on youtube who is doing exactly that. I think he was in Florida. The feral chickens of Hawaii and Key West have a lot of gamefowl ancestry
I have a pair breeding. They are half siblings, sharing the same mom but the dad's are different. But the dad's are grandson's and grandpas. Will this be good?
To make a line breed brother sister then pick best stag and best pullets breed them for color or other qualities u want if they come out like u want them then u start best pullet to cock hen to best stag if not breed best brother sister once more
I did this and had a stag 1/8 cock 7/8 hen1 and the same with a pullet 1/8 cock with 7/8 hen2, bred them and resulted with 7/16 blood hen 1 7/16 blood hen 2 1/8 cock blood Did that with opposing stag and pullet and both offspring where damn near identical with traits I desired and used that to create my own bloodline if you will. Had some amazing results.
I have a question I will be getting a trio soon should I get them one pure breed or 3 different breeds or two the same breed one a different breed. Breeds would be yl sweater, yl hatch, gl Gilmore hatch, gl grey. What would the preferred choice? Also if I really like a certain breed should I get a hen from that breed or a rooster for offspring. What’s more important the rooster or hen? Seems boys come out like momma n daughters like dad
How long can you do these pairings before defects start showing up? I work with Black Copper Marans and some pairings I get blind, or weak looking chicks. Most of them seem to be related somehow and it is hard to figure out which ones not to breed together. RUclips just gave me this channel and I find it interesting. Great videos, thanks.
Great question. Blind chicks could be genetic weakness due to inbreeding, though it may be outside factors as well. Getting back to your question, there is no set amount of inbreeding where you are guaranteed to see problems like these. I ran into trouble with Silkies one time after only the first back-cross (daughter back to father). If you're able to pair mate and keep records, that will narrow it down. Keep in mind that most Marans in this country are probably pretty closely related. I'm not too up to date on the happenings with the breed, but I know at one point there was difference between French and English imported lines. Whether English stock was discarded all together or assimilated into the French I can't say. But if most people did do away with the English stock then that limited the gene pool to just the French stock. Take into further consideration the heavy selection on egg color and it is likely that there are lines that are heavily inbred already to try to lock that dark egg color in. It is also possible that perhaps some of your breeders are carrying a form of Mareks that affects the eye.
I know this is old but chicks hatching with no eyes is a single autosomal recessive gene. It doesnt spontaneously manifest due to inbreeding, infact no trait does. If you are hatching eyeless chicks you need to carefully track who both parents of your chicks are so you can find who are the carriers and remove them from your breeding pens.
Same way I've always did it my guy. Someone was badgering me cause I said I don't breed brothers and sisters that I'll keep breeding the stags back to there momma pullets back to daddy
Hi. I have a question. If you cross two fowl with different color, what would be the color of the stags? Example, a Lacy Roundhead crossed to a Regular Grey. Will the stags be both red and grey colors, either white legs or green legs? Thanks!
Good explanation of what many do. Another way to do it, for less drastic inbreeding, is mate each hen after year 1 to the other hen's best stag. The cock to his best two daughters, maybe, but follow it with him to his granddaughters asap. And mate half brothers and sisters once and then cousins. Oh, and get another pair, or a bird, at least, if the first year's crop pans out. Cockers call parent-offspring matings linebreeding but this is also and primarily intensive inbreeding. Game chickens seem to have been selected to withstand this. All the same, inbreeding to this extent ruins many fowl. Makes them wild, crazy, small, less game.
macoy sandoval I cannot get your comment to pull up for me to reply directly. For the roosters #1 and #2 They were both the same blood as the hen in the example given. However, you could easily Use one from that hen and one from the other hen as well.
3 lines two stags that are sons a hen 1 and then you breed the sons of hen 1 back to her and then you breed the offspring of stag 1 and 2 together and you get 3/4 quarter blood of the mom so a rooster that has 3/4 blood form the original Chicken 1 this only works if that chicken produce cutting machines this is how you produce a high class fighting rooster and save a line or conserve it
Its a however many years you want it to be project. This just shows you how to start it, from there you continue it as many generations as it suits you
I started with a pair and kept 4 hens out of the 1st generation, but then the original hen died on me. I then bred the cock to one of the daughters and kept 3 pullets and 1 stag . Do you think it's a good idea to breed the stag with the mom so I can then later on start line breeding?
Yes, though I am no dog breeder so I am not sure how tightly dogs can or should be bred compared to chickens. Check out my friend's channel, Chicken Corner, he has been a dog breeder over the years.
in theory, that's how some dog breeds get started, like for example the Doberman was a combination of 3 initial breeds, of Rottweiler and regular Pincher and French Beacueron. The Greyhound blood and Hungarian Vizla blood and Manchester terrier was added later. So it involves 6 breeds to make one, but you had to cross back to " foundation" dogs in order to make the blood pure. However, in dogs, once a breed is started, you don't do this anymore. Instead, you do breeding such as 2-4 (or sire of male is great grandsire of female, or for example 3-2 , this is grandsire of male is sire of female , such as an uncle to niece mating. In other words, mating of father to daugther and back to same father, over and over, or back to same mother, is not done in dogs except in the very very beggining of a dog breed. It's then never done this close again.
Why would you not start single mate breed ing first. Then you will know from the get go what you is working with no doubt on which hen throws better from him. Last year when I crossed Kelso bloods I started out with 3 sister that where 7/8 line bred and I single mated. 2 of the them throwed great but 1 hen didnt they where shorter and sleeker than the other 2 hens offspring. Point being( This on small scale quality over quantity) if I would have breed them all together then how would I know for sure who threw what with out a little guessing. I dont know I am big fan of single mate breeding I feel like then there is no doubt on what happened and what the result was. WHAT is your thoughts on single mating verses group mating????I complete agree on the point of pairing up the traits that you want to complement the other That's the point right. THE Whole point of doing this is Trying to add the traits of one bloodline to the other to come out with a more complete bloodline which you will start your new bloodline(Family)with
Oh this diagram is meant for single mating, just showing using two hens and one male. So each hen would have her own pen and the male would be rotated. To me single or pair mating is the only way to go. There are advantages to other methods but I'll talk about that in another video
Cool cool I got you. I know different people breed in a little different way than the other ,not saying one is better than the other. But I was taught to always start with single mating when trying to make a new family. Not saying one way is right and than the other is wrong Just wondering what you opinion was on the way to start.😁👍
I went fed animals and got another cup of coffee.Sit down and watch the video again Now I here you say pair mate the hens to the cock lol which means the same as saying single mates to cock so I dont know I guess I was just was not quite awake enough to start thinking hahaha I bet you where like what the hell is Springer thinking!! Lol Have good day sir! Guess I was not firing on all 8 this morning.
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This is the best explanation I’ve found so far and I have been trying to get a good understanding of this for a few weeks now. Thanks!
Glad it helps
Thanks for this video. It really helps me for my trio. I have two 3/4 Bruce Barnett Sweater with 1/4 McLean Hatch and 1/4 John Bishop Kelso hens and a pure YLH broodstag given to me by Master Marcus of Lodyes Sisiw Academy.
I'm like 1 youtube video away from selling a bunch of possessions and starting a game fowl breeding program. Not for fighting but the thought of creating a semi wild free range super chicken it so intriguing to me.
I want my property populated by wild chickens that 99% take care of themselves year round. They'll roost in the trees, find their own food, cull themselves, restock themselves, and survive predators. I know its possible
I seem to recall another person on youtube who is doing exactly that. I think he was in Florida. The feral chickens of Hawaii and Key West have a lot of gamefowl ancestry
I think one answer is keep everything marked,wingband toe punched or tattoos, this way you know what's what,
I have a pair breeding. They are half siblings, sharing the same mom but the dad's are different. But the dad's are grandson's and grandpas. Will this be good?
Could you give me tips on starting with a brother/sister pair to start a line?
After a few generations they lose fertility so after about 4 gens of in add a new one
Look for KENNY TROIANO ....RUclips..
To make a line breed brother sister then pick best stag and best pullets breed them for color or other qualities u want if they come out like u want them then u start best pullet to cock hen to best stag if not breed best brother sister once more
I did this and had a stag 1/8 cock 7/8 hen1 and the same with a pullet 1/8 cock with 7/8 hen2, bred them and resulted with
7/16 blood hen 1
7/16 blood hen 2
1/8 cock blood
Did that with opposing stag and pullet and both offspring where damn near identical with traits I desired and used that to create my own bloodline if you will. Had some amazing results.
I’m assuming these birds would need to be split from an existing flock to accomplish this with any certainty?
I think with your knowledge about color breeding,line breeding, cross breeding, you should make the diagram as bd book for sale
thanks, I'm going to have to watch that a cuple more times, but good information, thanks
Thank you
I have a question I will be getting a trio soon should I get them one pure breed or 3 different breeds or two the same breed one a different breed. Breeds would be yl sweater, yl hatch, gl Gilmore hatch, gl grey. What would the preferred choice? Also if I really like a certain breed should I get a hen from that breed or a rooster for offspring. What’s more important the rooster or hen? Seems boys come out like momma n daughters like dad
Best talk ever.
How long can you do these pairings before defects start showing up? I work with Black Copper Marans and some pairings I get blind, or weak looking chicks. Most of them seem to be related somehow and it is hard to figure out which ones not to breed together. RUclips just gave me this channel and I find it interesting. Great videos, thanks.
Great question. Blind chicks could be genetic weakness due to inbreeding, though it may be outside factors as well. Getting back to your question, there is no set amount of inbreeding where you are guaranteed to see problems like these. I ran into trouble with Silkies one time after only the first back-cross (daughter back to father). If you're able to pair mate and keep records, that will narrow it down. Keep in mind that most Marans in this country are probably pretty closely related. I'm not too up to date on the happenings with the breed, but I know at one point there was difference between French and English imported lines. Whether English stock was discarded all together or assimilated into the French I can't say. But if most people did do away with the English stock then that limited the gene pool to just the French stock. Take into further consideration the heavy selection on egg color and it is likely that there are lines that are heavily inbred already to try to lock that dark egg color in. It is also possible that perhaps some of your breeders are carrying a form of Mareks that affects the eye.
I know this is old but chicks hatching with no eyes is a single autosomal recessive gene. It doesnt spontaneously manifest due to inbreeding, infact no trait does. If you are hatching eyeless chicks you need to carefully track who both parents of your chicks are so you can find who are the carriers and remove them from your breeding pens.
@@ChickenWired so if continue to breed passed 1/16 on that would mean eventually the cock would be bread out. Is that correct?
Yup you got yourself a disease bother cull that hen
Thats been a hidden utube jewel easily explained 👍
Great diagram. Really helpful. Thanks
You are welcome!
Same way I've always did it my guy. Someone was badgering me cause I said I don't breed brothers and sisters that I'll keep breeding the stags back to there momma pullets back to daddy
Great explanation and diagram. Does linebreed and Inbreeding cause birds to shrink in size?
Yes, continuous inbreeding and linebreeding can effect the adult size of chickens
Hi. I have a question. If you cross two fowl with different color, what would be the color of the stags?
Example, a Lacy Roundhead crossed to a Regular Grey. Will the stags be both red and grey colors, either white legs or green legs?
Thanks!
Some might be red others yellow, you will lose the white legs and feather color consistency afterwards
Good explanation of what many do. Another way to do it, for less drastic inbreeding, is mate each hen after year 1 to the other hen's best stag. The cock to his best two daughters, maybe, but follow it with him to his granddaughters asap. And mate half brothers and sisters once and then cousins.
Oh, and get another pair, or a bird, at least, if the first year's crop pans out. Cockers call parent-offspring matings linebreeding but this is also and primarily intensive inbreeding. Game chickens seem to have been selected to withstand this. All the same, inbreeding to this extent ruins many fowl. Makes them wild, crazy, small, less game.
Excellent... Great diagram...
Semper fi devil
how to make a purebred line, starting with 1 pure hen and 1 cock cross?
This can be done with a trio of full brothers. Thx
Can this be done with a trio with same fenotype but different lines ??
i m confused..and want to learn more
search for "la tabla de felch" but It´s not very safe. You will have to discar many birds.
macoy sandoval I cannot get your comment to pull up for me to reply directly. For the roosters #1 and #2 They were both the same blood as the hen in the example given. However, you could easily Use one from that hen and one from the other hen as well.
Is it ok if the first stags offspring will be put to the other hen and not to thwir mothers?
This was a simple and effective explanation!!! Didn’t need to have a PHD to understand you. Thank you very much!!!
@@jttp362 Thank you, glad you enjoyed it
@@ChickenWired we have a mutual friend named Kenny
@@jttp362 Yep he was telling me the other day he has been talking to ya
3 lines two stags that are sons a hen 1 and then you breed the sons of hen 1 back to her and then you breed the offspring of stag 1 and 2 together and you get 3/4 quarter blood of the mom so a rooster that has 3/4 blood form the original Chicken 1 this only works if that chicken produce cutting machines this is how you produce a high class fighting rooster and save a line or conserve it
why u didn't cross to their cousins?
I love your video but I am still confusing
Make a other diagram with pictures and more detail I’m interested in forming a family of some good asil/American cross chickens
Will do
great description.
This is about a 2 yr process right?
Its a however many years you want it to be project. This just shows you how to start it, from there you continue it as many generations as it suits you
Wow oky pobayan sir
What’s the benefit of heavy linebreeding if you already have a wide gene pool? Just curious
line breeding helps to weed out traits or lock in traits.
Could you make another diagram how to lock the gene
I started with a pair and kept 4 hens out of the 1st generation, but then the original hen died on me. I then bred the cock to one of the daughters and kept 3 pullets and 1 stag . Do you think it's a good idea to breed the stag with the mom so I can then later on start line breeding?
you can, or you can breed him back to one of his mother's sisters if you feel they would pair up better
Thank you
You're welcome
This principle could apply when inbreeding dogs also right? I've been looking for a while for an illustration to explain this system to my wife
Yes, though I am no dog breeder so I am not sure how tightly dogs can or should be bred compared to chickens. Check out my friend's channel, Chicken Corner, he has been a dog breeder over the years.
in theory, that's how some dog breeds get started, like for example the Doberman was a combination of 3 initial breeds, of Rottweiler and regular Pincher and French Beacueron. The Greyhound blood and Hungarian Vizla blood and Manchester terrier was added later. So it involves 6 breeds to make one, but you had to cross back to " foundation" dogs in order to make the blood pure. However, in dogs, once a breed is started, you don't do this anymore. Instead, you do breeding such as 2-4 (or sire of male is great grandsire of female, or for example 3-2 , this is grandsire of male is sire of female , such as an uncle to niece mating. In other words, mating of father to daugther and back to same father, over and over, or back to same mother, is not done in dogs except in the very very beggining of a dog breed. It's then never done this close again.
Just my opinion but with dogs skip every other one according to this
where I Come From
Why would you not start single mate breed ing first. Then you will know from the get go what you is working with no doubt on which hen throws better from him. Last year when I crossed Kelso bloods I started out with 3 sister that where 7/8 line bred and I single mated. 2 of the them throwed great but 1 hen didnt they where shorter and sleeker than the other 2 hens offspring. Point being( This on small scale quality over quantity) if I would have breed them all together then how would I know for sure who threw what with out a little guessing. I dont know I am big fan of single mate breeding I feel like then there is no doubt on what happened and what the result was. WHAT is your thoughts on single mating verses group mating????I complete agree on the point of pairing up the traits that you want to complement the other That's the point right. THE Whole point of doing this is Trying to add the traits of one bloodline to the other to come out with a more complete bloodline which you will start your new bloodline(Family)with
Oh this diagram is meant for single mating, just showing using two hens and one male. So each hen would have her own pen and the male would be rotated. To me single or pair mating is the only way to go. There are advantages to other methods but I'll talk about that in another video
Cool cool I got you. I know different people breed in a little different way than the other ,not saying one is better than the other. But I was taught to always start with single mating when trying to make a new family. Not saying one way is right and than the other is wrong Just wondering what you opinion was on the way to start.😁👍
I went fed animals and got another cup of coffee.Sit down and watch the video again Now I here you say pair mate the hens to the cock lol which means the same as saying single mates to cock so I dont know I guess I was just was not quite awake enough to start thinking hahaha I bet you where like what the hell is Springer thinking!! Lol Have good day sir! Guess I was not firing on all 8 this morning.
Quien entiende eso en inglés
Traduce lo al spanich
Your missing a whole lot of steps some ppl will think this is all that’s to it
Ľ
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~>
So is this common to have inbred chickens? Sounds disturbing.
any purebred animal is inbred to some degree. they just call it different things to make it sound more agreeable.
Thanks. Very helpful