Most of the items are inspired by dota items. Lots of people are indirectly learning why dota is so amazing right now honestly. League is really nothing like dota in terms of how much impact active items and build choices make. Any hero can blink across the whole screen. Any hero can turn you into a chicken. Any hero can cast their ultimate twice in a row.
Yeah but DOTA feels like shit to play compared to League. Every character feels clunky af. I like DOTA because its characters are cool and shit but the moment to moment gameplay feels markedly worse imo.
@@tonyluiscomedy the clunkiness is the skill floor or so to say the "how tall you have to be" to play. Because once you are able to play comfortably, its only a matter of time you learn some other movement tech in the game. Movement alone can differentiate you and the sheeps. This is happening in Deadlock as well. The fact that deadlock restricts you with stamina to do extra movement is to seperate you from the other sheeps. How to maximize your movement and stamina to get to safety. How to quickly get from one point to the other. How to dodge certain aoe with minimal movement rather than spamming movement abilities. With restriction comes inovations. That's why players keep coming back. It's also why people coming back to league. Same concept but applies differently to every champion.
@@tonyluiscomedy is not that character is clunky, is just that dota 2 has turn rate, the map is bigger and the artstyle is not as "attractive" as the one league has
The final points definitely reflect dota in a sense. However I would argue, that is a good design. Valve multiplayer games loves to have knowledge checks in order to have fun in it. CS with smokes, footsteps, gun sound,economy. TF2 with gun variance, movement, spychecks, turret spots, health and ammo location. Dota 2 with ults, passives, counters, cooldowns. It may seem like it is unfair now, but the game requires it to ensure at all levels, mechanic isn't the only end all be all. You might no be as skilled mechanically, but knowledge alone can carry you into a higher rank until you hit your threshold. But the reverse is also true, knowledge alone can't win you games, the mechanics will also be challenged at different rank of the game at the same time. It creates an ecosystem for both style of players to flourish.
Absolutely. The complexity of those games are Valves bread and butter. Only played Dota here and there but knowing how to buy items according to the enemy threats and how to play around enemy strenghts and take advantage of situations is a large part of what makes those games fun. Some people will be driven away by that, which I understand, but there is enough of us who dig this.
said it better than i ever could I'm about to hit 70 hours in deadlock and every character can get really powerful if built right its all just skill checks when you get late game and that's the fun part! i didn't spend 30 minutes pushing lanes n farming creeps to not be able to wreck someone and if i mess up then there's equal chance for them to clap me too.
@@gumsword3596 its more complex to look at but when you actually get in and play a few matches you start to figure it out pretty quick. building characters is the only more complex part but there's just premade community builds to use anyway.
I honestly think the game being invite only has likely helped a lot with holding players. you generally make your mind up whether you like a game or not in the first few hours of playing. having it invite only increases the chances that the first time your'e playing the game you are playing with a friend. Not only does playing with a friend make a MOBA a lot more fun, but it also benefits the new player as they can help walk them through the game a little bit. I think this likely helps with first impressions.
Without friends I wouldn't have survived my first 2h. Alone I would've Alt+F4 & uninstalled halfway through the first match. Never played a MOBA, so I was completely overwhelmed and still am 😂 But now I love it, its a fun game for 6 friends.
Wrong. Lots of people are joining through discord codes or other codes posted online then removing the person. Or they just got an invite from someone on their friends list. I sent an invite to all my friends just incase they wanna play.
My bullshit strategy counters your bullshit strategy and then his bullshit strategy counters my bulshit strategy. Its the icefrog way. Have fun being op at whatever you do. Everyone else is too.
The item rock paper scissors complaint doesn’t play out as you described. The team that gets ahead in souls will hold a rock and a paper while you are stuck with a pair of scissors.
Well, it helps that you can steal souls. I've had many matches where I came back after dying a few times in a row, not having the highest score, or having most of our lanes wrecked. The good thing is very few games are completely one-sided. I just finished a 5v6 game where 2 people on my team were also like 0-9 and lost their lanes. We were still able to win. If you look at the graphs at the end, both teams are usually really close, which is not the case in most games. They did a great job with this one.
You can always get back into the match at any point in the game, but most ppls mental explodes before it gets to that point were yall can bring it back, you just gotta not do push fight rather defend fights and try to take as many souls from the enemies
Sort of. Teams that are ahead can stay ahead, like any MOBA. But you can buy Curse, or Knockup, to instantly counter most of the teamfight ults in the game. Very possible to come back, since teams have to overextend so much to hit the nexus.
@@iSOBigD doesn't help at all. you get a slightiest of advantage - it's a steamroll. the point of the game is to get that advantage, in my experience there are little to zero games that aren't one sided btw cuz making an actually working matchmaking system is not about valve
Overwatch was never meant to be a MOBA, but more of a frankenstein version of TF2. Up to season 4 the game was great, and between season 10-11 it got good again, but that was it. Only a few months where i genuinely felt the urge to be competitive
MOBAs need that complexity. Without it, the game becomes solved incredibly quickly and you just have mirror match meta like we saw in Overwatch. Can't wait to see Valve weave their magic like they did with Dota 2.
The thing is, once people stop playing with friends, only tryhards will be left, because casuals dont want to play incredibly complex and taxing game, while also getting shafted due to how snowbally this game is in its design.
I always wondered why Blizzard didn't expand Overwatch into something in the direction of a MOBA. It would've solved the constant 6v6 ball of characters vs ball of characters that would happen the beginning to the end of every match. They needed something similar to lanes or small side objectives to force people to split up a bit. Thankfully Valve gave us a huge playground of a map, with lots of different strategy opportunities.
@@thecooljohn100 not every. This game has way to steep point of entry and its not knowledge based like LoL or complex mechanics like DotA. Its the sheer, overwhelming amount of awerness you are required to have at every second of the game, which is tiring (even thing like rotations from lane to lane requires engagement higher, than simple click). This game doesnt have any downtime, except when moving on grapple to the lane and back. Additionally, pretty much every other competetive game has some sort of mechanic, that can help you stay in game after either unfortunate event or bad matchup. This game doesnt. The soul system is currently the main culprit that will kill 90% of the player base after about 4 months into its official launch. It is massive snowball mechanism, that doesnt allow for comebacks. In other mobas, you get xp system or passive gold (equivalent of souls) generation, so that you will stay somewhat relevant into later stages of the game, in case of rolling bad matchup etc. Here you just get infinitely shafted as scaling is tied to soul system only. Just imagine if LoL or Dota removed passive gold generation and tied level progression to amount of gold you have, people would just rebel as every game (not just most but nearly every single one) would be basically decided in first 5-10 minutes as one side just got more gold, that gains them more gold and denies you gold as well. Deadlock needs to redesign its power progression as quickly as possible, to stay relevant for longer time.
I think another good point is the lore, world building, and the sheer amount of interesting details they’ve already started to put into Deadlock, even in its current phase of development. Stuff like the sun always being eclipsed and knowing the world is full of real paranormal events leads to a lot of fun and interesting ideas for Valve to work with. It’s fun hearing the radio news talk about an event but then mention a character from the roster since they live in the world which is greatly appreciated
Today I looked at the characters background stories. I see Yamatos and its all in japanese 😂. Then I go read some more until I hit Lash, and its just the singular sentence "Jacob Lash is an asshole" 🤣 man valve never disappoints with it's character writing hahahaha
I think Deadlock excels in keeping the complex builds and character interactions from MOBAs but simplifying some of the hindering stuff like mana, wards, base TPs and potions. Just having cooldowns and fast lane transport feels amazing.
From having a background in DOTA, I think it's interesting to see people's perspectives on items and crowd control. I haven't played much League but I believe DOTA has more active items and longer stuns/disables (not a quality assessment). What you're describing with Vicious and blink is functionally identical to what Pangolier's ultimate with a blink dagger in DOTA is. Dynamo's blink, ultimate, refresh, and repeat is essentially the same combination used by Engima in DOTA. If Dynamo/Engima get off a full duration double ultimate on the entire enemy team, you're going to win the fight and probably should win. The mechanics/potential plays existing don't give me pause and have existed in DOTA forever. Where I think things could be problematic is that there aren't really roles. DPS/Carries are often the most popular roles in these kind of games and they'll generally lack support and saving items/abilities. In DOTA (and I assume League), Supports will happily sacrifice themselves to save their Carries. Ivy's Stone Form, Bebop's Hook, Vicious's The Cube, and Wraith's Telekinesis all seems like pretty effective ways at countering a Dynamo Ultimate with relative low commitment but if everyone is playing selfishly, then they might go unchecked.
I like the no predefined roles, it encourages people to actually team play if you want to go to high elo, any hero can go utility or damage rn, also makes the solves the toxicity problem of people wanting or only knowing how to play certain roles
@@Epig420 I do too. I'm a Support player and lean towards utility and not damage. My favorite thing in DOTA was playing Carries as Support. There's been a lot of examples of too many people wanting to play Carry/DPS and that's why DOTA eventually added role queue. Overwatch queue times between roles would also reflect this.
i've been played league for a decade and in leage is completly different, in league we either have tank support or "dmg support" and the only like enchanter hero are picked in pro play and the funny thing is the "dmg support" is usually mage that just fucking out perform other kind of support in any other ways they have cc which is stadard for any character but they have alot of ap(ability power) scaling to their heal which mean a completly bust mage can just go full ap and one shot any backline character and heal or give a 800 hp sheild to their kit and lol does have a active support item but there're like 3 main active support item for the whole itemlist and it just make the game more braindead as the time goes on. when i start trying dota2 just feel better in everyway except the input delay.
You final complaints about items and knowledge checks just scream "I play league, not dota", and honestly its the price you pay for what you talked about earlier, the incredibly strong/broken item combos that you can get. If dotas design philosphy over the years is anything to go by you will 100% this these values tweaked, improved and adjusted with most likely additional variables added or some removed to make this balanced, but it wont get taken out.
Yeah, refresher orb and blink dagger have been in DOTA 2 for as long as I can remember. Is someone having 2 ultimates OP? YOU BET. But it's not always the best option for the game, and sometimes the counter for it is just not clustering together as a team, or baiting the ultimate, and instead of counter buying an item to counter it, the best option often times is to just buy something offensively to just make your hero much better. That OP comho can't hurt you if you kill the hero before they get to use it. These things will play out better over time but they are definitely not going away.
I like the design philosophy of knowledge checks tbh and counters to counters to counters, it makes it so that mechanics aren’t the only thing that wins you games but also foresight planning strategy etc
The easiest turnoff for a League Player trying Dota2 is the input delay. For no reason. It just feels like garbage if you are used to League. Deadlock doesn't make this mistake, game is super snappy.
@@hiiambarney4489 dota has turn rate, league players often keep moving like they're playing cod any action in dota depends on where your character's body is facing, so your character needs to face that direction to shoot that direction and that might require turning their body if they were not already facing that way deadlock would feel horrible with turn rate or slow movement acceleration, because it's incorporating shooter elements as the main player control system i'd say it's how strategy and action game works, a blend between the two would have both elements in different ratio i'd say listing from strategy to action i'd place the 3 games as dota - league - deadlock, so deadlock should feel more snappy and a player's performance should rely more on mechanical skills than league, while dota should make a player consider every move more often than league
@hiiambarney4489 it is not a mistake, it is a deliberate design decision. Turn rates gives melee heroes the ability to compete with ranged heroes so they don't just get kited.
I was genuinely burnt out of multiplayer games for along time but this game is special. Even if I’m losing I’m having so much fun with how many things you can do.
Same, I actually created a steam account and got an invite before I even owned or played a pc(console player since 93) no looking back now though, love it
In dota there is 'buyback', the ability to instantly respawn by paying money. This is one of many way to counter this long cooldown cc with refresher. They might add this system in future iteration. Another way is by drafting a hero counter. Competitive dota game does not start when the game start, but in the draft stage. It is a highly strategical game where draft really matter. To be a successful competitive player, you are required to know how to play many hero since it leads to drafting advantage. Unlike fighting games, the concept of 'maining' a hero is not prevalent in Dota 2. Some player have their signature hero, but they usually are highly skilled at playing at least another 5 or 6 heroes as well.
I don't think buyback would be implemented into the game, because there are other mechanics that act like one. Respawn time in Deadlock is much faster than Dota and capped up to 70 seconds. Deadlock's Midboss spawn Rejuvenator that gives the whole team half respawn time. Rather than Dota's Roshan that gives the Aegis that only help one player. And there's also rebirth item that can help you win or escape a gank. This way it's much more punishing for players who make mistakes and left the base undefended. Defending the base is also much easier because of how it's designed. You just need the whole team to not die in order to comeback.
The item complexity is going to be a selling point rather than a hinderance to me. It allows the enemy to shut you down, but it also allows you to shut the enemy down and play around them. This is the design philosophy of Dota 2 and IceFrog. When you know what is at your disposal and itemize around it, you can truly make your hero shine much like how it is in Dota. I mean, yeah, when Riot ripsoff Deadlock with their own version, they will likely port over the LoL item design philosophy of just being statsticks, and they will likely have your base champion be able to handle every situation. But I find this is what going to be the major difference between Dota and LoL inspirations, as Deadlock will be allowed to make truly unique and interesting characters because the items will make up any shortfalls.
For me, items are the main reason I couldn't get into the game. I wish there was an auto buy mechanic kinda like in paladins for those that want it. Imo that would break down the main barrier of entrance
And you know the best thing about Dota 2/Deadlock style of balancing? No amount of casuals reddit/forum whining going to have major effect in balancing the characters since it always balanced on high-skill playstyle. Seven OP? Ok. Seven not that successful in high bracket? = Seven not gonna get touched in balance patches
@@juna8572 That's hyperbole. We aren't talking about the 1% of pros, we're talking about the top 30% (People who actually understand several characters and have mastered the fundamentals). It doesn't really matter what they focus on for balance so long as it's consistent. I hate how many competitive games bend the knee to angry mobs on the internet (most of who don't even play the game...)
Well the truth is that you can never truly balance a competitive game unless you want it to be a soulless husk since players are always gonna be finding ways to exploit certain features, abilities, or items.
If somebody uses a refresher ONLY to kill you, then the rest of your team sucks, so you’ve lost already. Also, the top tier items give you crazy advantages - you are comparing a Tier 4 Refresher to a Tier 3 Remove Debuffs, which is not a fair argument to make. My point is, the item dance mini-game is a thing in MOBAs and it’s a part of the teamfight micro. The complaint isn’t fair if only made about this game
On the mention of amount of buttons and hand conrol needed for them: I literally got tendinitis from only 10 or so hours in this game and have been out of work for almost 2 months. It busted BOTH my hands. Game that makes you have to go to physical therapy, I wish I was joking. Make sure to do stretches and take breaks or else youll be stuck like me, only being able to spectate 😭
Either something is wrong with your hands, your sitting posture and your table or you just need to make your hands more relaxed during gaming. A lot of hand pain complaints usually come from people who instead of lightly tapping buttons or holding mouse in a relaxed position are constantly straining their hands, it's usually because you're not used to those actions and you don't have muscle memory yet, but your still trying to do it quick by force
@egrassa1480 it's absolutely a repetitive stress injury that probably included bad posture, but no doubt Deadlock pushed it over the edge. I've had 3-4 other friends complain about their carpal tunnel flaring up for the first time in years from this game :(
Its got the depth of dota while not feeling like youre slamming into a cliff of a Knowledge check. Its still there for sure but its easier to get into, you feel less confused when an enemy walks up and blows you up as is tradition in dota. The smaller cast also helps tremendously for this. Learning this small cast of characters is so easy when you imagine say, if you tried dota or league for the first time in your life right now. Youre just not gonna understand the cast for hundreds of hours where as it doesnt take nearly as long in this gane
THIS is the thing I have always wanted from a MOBA. I've tried to get into them, but I jut never could get the hang of the fact that you need to stand still in order to attack, which always means people moved out of the way. AND it's set in a stylized version of the early 20th century with hero shooter elements and a heavy mobility focus??? FCK. YES.
where do people get the codes honestly haha, been waiting for marvel rivals to come out to replace ow2 but this might also be it due to moba having a very high skill floor and ceiling(i never played any moba before)
@@michael21-ou2yt For Deadlock, someone in your Steam Friend's list who has access needs to invite you. There's no "code" to get in, it's by invite only.
I also thought about the counter counter counter that will happen in high level play but I remembered I played dota 2 and If someone really hates you that much that they want to shut you down specificially then they are not countering your other 5 mates, counters are investments, also what I want from Valve however is for them to not listen to "pros" and just listen to the casual community and I guess thats why they politely asked the Deadlock tracker website to chill out stop recording winrates and just play for now because at the end of the day this game took a novel approach to both Moba and Shooter, for me the best thing about this game is the verticality, ive already seen people utilizing rooftops as ganking routes, with Hopoo devs jumping ship to Valve the fluidity of the movement system suddenly makes so much sense, this is my Risk of Rain 3
So the whole video basically is about League player discovering what makes Dota-like genre good😅 I'm glad, that after all these years people are finally switching from Chinese DOTA rip off for browsers to the original game!
The problem with dota is that valve is doing jack shit for its esport league, LoL esport is MILES ahead of dota by far, and thats coming from a guy that has been playing dota since 2012 and always been "against lol" in this silly war. just look at todays international, honestly valve makes good game when they do, but in terms of building on their league and keeping a game alive, they suck so bad. i think thats gonna be dota downfall sadly
@@efwfew if by "miles ahead "you mean bribing tournament organizations, blackmailing estport commentators and capitalizing on s***** personas skins - then yeah, it's way f****** miles ahead of everyone in game industry!
This is a rare, very deep analysis of the game state and gameplay that is not just surface level. I can tell you have countless hours in this game and are actually invested in it. Very good video thank you look forward to new content!
It is frustrating to have to counter spec but counter-items are usually cheaper than the offensive-item equivalent. The fact is, usually, If you need to invest in counters, it means you are behind. It is frustrating but you have to eat it. That's a consequence of losing the laning phase. Now that you are behind you will probably be trumpled on micro battles fought directly. That is part of MOBAs people have to get used to. Being on the receiving end of a snowball in MOBAs might be very frustating but learning to turn it around is what makes them competitive. Strategic knowledge is essential, basically, defense must excel in Macro. The defensive team has to make the offensive team pay the price each engagement. It must seek to battle only when they have the advantage, this is an art on itself. Denying map control while knowing when to fall back is very difficult. The Offensive team will pressure by controlling the map resources if defense is too passive. They will try to gather all resources and this pressures an disadvantegous engagement. Defense must preempt this by gathering information and by positioning to punish. Other things like target priority and advantegeous ganks are required too. Sometimes killing the offensive carrie is enough to stop offensive teams momentum. Creep waves timings are great sources of pressure. Controling all this while fighting battles is supper difficult but it is possible to turn games around.
Played a game yesterday as Haze where I got absolutely trounced in lane by an Abrams. He had 43 denies on me. I had 1. Thirty minutes later, I wiped his entire team with a well itemized ult and we won. As a Dota guy who understands the ABCCs (always be collectin' cash), how to establish a farming pattern, and how to itemize to counter, I'm loving wrecking these FPS guys with much better aim but no gamesense. Game rules, there's something for everyone.
@@DaKilldozer Same here my fellow Dota player. I've won a significant number of games from a losing lane (as a boomer it's just so hard to keep up with these possibly young fps players reaction nerves) by doing proper farming and split pushing. Sometimes my lane opponent would get tilted and salty in all chat as we won and I'd just tell them this game is in its core a strategy game.
Sure. But are you dying? That's the more important question, imo. If you're not getting kills, the least you can do is not feed the enemy. Better to play safe and get no kills then try to chase those kills and get yourself killed in the process. That way, when a better player than you takes on your enemy laner, they're that much easier to kill bceause you didn't feed them.
@@chrishaven1489 I agree, but there is a learning curve of sorts. I've been playing FPS games for nearly 20 years, but I have little MOBA experience. So before I was even willing to set foot in a match, I was playing BOT matches, to learn the game. But even then, it is still a different experience going up against players, because it is faster. Quite often, by the time I realise I am about to die, I am already down. So it takes time to learn the warning signs, learn the classes, learn the abilities and upgrades etc. And I would say, I have been improving, but I still make a lot of mistakes because I don't back off quickly enough. And some of the players I have gone up against are very aggressive in chasing you down to kill you, even to the point of completely over-extending.
I think the game has a good onboarding , lanes are color coded, can play any character in any lane, map is great, simple to follow last hits , you see yours being shot so you shoot theirs, and you suck at building so just use communities till you figure it out , so much better than most mobas that just throw you in and say good luck
Its crazy most of people that I know mocking the game artstyle back when it was closed test saying that its going to flop turns 180° after they play the game and now are addicted to it
What's amazing is that despite similar games like Savage coming out as much as 22 years (!) before this game, as well as Demigod (15 years) and Paragon (8 years) having better graphics back then, Deadlock still manages to be fun and addictive because cares about gameplay above all else. Little tweaks, little improvements, and good art style and concepts despite not having the best graphics, that's what gamers want and that's what will make this game successful for many years just like previous Valve games.
League players describing what it feels like to play dota 2 for the first time. Playing normal football at minute 0 which eventually at minute 35 turned into shaolin soccer is icefrog's way. One thing I hate from normal shooters is it's 90% about mechanical skill, there's barely art of war in it.
Playing Deadlock made me realize how fun MOBAs can be when I thought sitting for one hour on a single match is tiring. I finally picked up Mobile Legends on my phone ever since I last played it with my friends back in high school (3+ years ago). Right now I don't even want to optimize my gameplay (probably my laning in general). I just want to explore and have fun.
I'm thinking, though. Isn't this flexibility just a perceived thing, maybe, since the game is so new? Maybe as time passes we get to learn what truly is meta on the game, and then everything else becomes obsolete since everyone is running meta. This is difficult to tell, and obviously we all wish that builds are this flexible.
Personally what makes the game so good to me are two things, firstly unlike dota and league the game doesn't feel like ass to control. The moba gameplay has always been a fun loop held back by a very very limited movement, smite worked on that a bit but it was still limited, having full three dimensional movement helps the game feel so much better to play and actually makes movement feel like a useful skill that can help you rather than just the point a to point b tool dota and league have. Secondly the items being impactful and wacky is so much better than how some games just have stat sticks as literally everything, while I'd like certain unfun items to get tweaked (mostly the ones that perpetuate stun builds) I love the weird obscure and sometimes overpowered combos you can pull with the items.
Something dramatic they could do to limit the abuse of cc inducing items is to make some items only effective with other conditions besides the purchase price. Like the time of the stun or silence is dependant on ability power which means for it to be useful it needs to be fairly late game but also can only be used if you're doing certain builds. Making items conditional so that they're effectively useless for characters who might abuse them but avaliable for characters and builds that actually need them. The alternative is to not have activatable items which apply stuns and silences. Make that something some characters have abd balance those unique abilities, but don't make it purchasable. Items should help you use skills more than give you a crutch to not have to. What if items like curse didn't make you helpless but instead made your abilities do no damage, like disarming for spirit damage. Your attempt to attack can by thwarted but you're not suddenly trapped with no eacape. So many ability focused characters have mobility based on their abilities so having it all turned off is too much. You might as well make it an auto kill button. The funny anvil drop is great, especially with the delay letting you know to get around a corner before it hits. What about more cartoon silliness like an item that makes the screen all blurry for 30 seconds like the character is dizzy. Things that can interrupt an attack but don't cripple. Those items now are used for teams to single out and bully individual people but they should be for people to escape being singled out and bullied.
Even some of the skill names are the same in Dota 2, "Phantom Strike" "Assassinate" and maybe some couple more names out there that i haven't yet discover.
I think that there will not be a problem for you in the future when mmr is introduced. The people who are highskill and chose to go for counters with items will place in that bracket, and the lowerskilled players who dont wanna think to much about active items and countering items will just end up in lower brackets and have fun there in thier own space :D
Ive put about 30 games in and im addicted alrdy! As a person who plays a lot of moba and shooters it feels like a perfect blend. Right now pocket is my favorite with wraith and abrams being my other two. Looking forward to see the growth of this game
15:50 there is an item in dota2 also called refresher orb and yes it can also reset all cooldown of your skills at the cost of high mana, but not all heroes in dota2 build that and also it is so expensive to build
To add to those that say why it's only one map. It's like many other physical sports games like football, tennis, basketball, etc. There is only one standard field or arena.
The only complaint I have about it is that even if I put a character as high priority to choose, it can take me up to 10 games to get a game with it. Which considering games can be 20-30 minutes long is kinda crazy. I hope they add a mode where you can choose one character only and having longer waiting times. I've had times where I played as McGinnis 4 games in a row without ever swapping to the other 4 characters I had in my roster. In another note, I think you are right, I've had many teammates who jump into the game, die 3 or 4 times in a row, completely confused and then ragequit. I don't know how you fix that with a moba, since I feel like from the start, the genre needs you to understand quite a lot of things to properly function as a player. I've been off of competitive games for like 2 years and this shit is bringing me back to the toxic gamer roots, but damn the feel of having a game that I can play everyday is goddamn good, I've been missing it.
I know dota 2 had 40 million dollar pricepools and have a huge player base, but videos like this makes me feel how many people are still missing out on the OG/Masterpiece MOBA which dota 2 is. Nothing against lol but definitely made lot of players miss out on dota. Also for the last point, if you ever get a chance see pro match (as VOD would be available easily) where treant and Enigma play game of chicken (with their ults), the layer of mind game is insane! And insanely satisfying.
I finally got access this week to play this game, it was indeed frustrating for me since that I play moba's and shooter's, I really felt like the game would just click? But I quickly learned the reason why I am struggling is pretty much itemization on characters. Though everyone says its super simplistic, for some reason it was more confusing in my head than when I first played LoL. Pretty much all I understand about builds at this point is if I'm AA champ mainly, all of my $$ is going to Damage items/defense until late game. If I use more abilities, Spirit/defense.
I have no interest in MOBAs or hero shooters or even online games in general, but I love listening to you talk about pretty much any game because of your knowledge, experience, reasoned opinions, and general enthusiasm. Thank you for the entertainment.
I just got an invite a few days ago and I already have 30 hours lol. The only thing I really still want is a good progression system, things like events and more customization, right now even in casual the game can feel super sweaty and it does not feel good to play a 40 minute game just to get rolled, but thats more of a MOBA thing than a dead lock thing i think. but I know its still in alpha at this point so its not a huge deal to me as long as this stuff comes eventually. The core game itself is incredible, the only MOBA thats ever hooked me like this, they just gotta nail the small stuff now and this game could be massive.
Was Yamato supposed to be alien? Cuz Protoss zealots have alien samurai vibe and nerazims have alien ninja/ronin vibe. And dark templars in lotv and Vorazun uses omnislash(in editor).
yeah the aspect of having to counter opp's carry build is very dota-like. You have to do that at the highest level of play, at mid tier you at least have to be aware of it, if not actively counter.
The whole last point of multiple active items is literally the super late game of every Dota 2 game, where you can have 4 default skills, 1 active from Shard and 6 active items - 11 things to use in the fight. And the enemy bought the items to counter/cancel you. Nothing really new or "damaging" to the game. Works just fine in Dota2 and works just fine in Deadlock.
Regarding the counter to a counter argument, that's why team composition is very important in dota. Your support, is actually more important than your carry. So you don't need to buy the counter item. Your support will save you with their ability. For example, in TI 2024 Gaimin vs Liquid, Liquid win because the support is so clutch in using their save skills. Without this clutch save, their carry is useless
I was gonna comment that literally everything you said is how you describe dota but good thing others already commented on it. It is complex but it's not really a shocking or surprising thing to be honest.
i’ve been playing cod sense i was 5 and league sense i was 12. i this game, my twin is top 0.5 percent of this game with him being basically a csgo pro sense 14 and also started playing league around 12 too. so aaaaaa we fucking love this game. it’s soo good and we get the nova feel and why it’s addictive but hey we for 9 years have not been able to cut league out so like we doomed
You could call me a Valve fanboy, and there is a reason. They have never dropped the ball, not once. When they go in on an idea, they have the talent and management to make it cool and super fun. Seeing the polarizing 'releases' of Deadlock and Concord was really telling. Deadlock couldn't have come at a more perfect time to show the world what gamers really want.
I always feel bad of missing out on "hyped" games like this that everyone is talking about - because i can not stand this type of games, 5v5 arena hero shooters etc. still following these videos tho!
don't feel bad. with all the constant steam sales, you could have 6 lifetimes and still not get through all the games. the FOMO games like black myth wukong, space marines, elden ring dlc, etc., are just the hot thing in town that week to get clicks for content. some people are legitimately excited to play those games, but the whole "you MUST play this now!!" thing is just content creator stuff. i'd argue most games these days are waaaay better purchased like a year or two after they come out--even something as good as Baldur's Gate 3. that game came out 1 year ago and has had lots of bug fixes, extra content added, and they just added more fleshed out "evil" endings and stuff.
@@NykoZeraorait quite literally is. The only thing hero shooter means is having characters with abilities in a shooter in pvp or if you really want to get technical, pve too. Placing a lot of the emphasis on the ability part of the game is the basis of a hero shooter and that’s what they don’t like. More hero than shooter if that makes sense
@@NykoZeraora my comment goes the same way just im saying what most people think of when they here hero shooter you know? Me and you prob think overwatch or concord (lol), but for people not really big into games it gets put into one bucket called ability spam the game.
about items being potentially too strong or counter play options being too specific and such. I get your point. But Dota has the same things and there you can in the end always just say "git gud" just know what items the enemies have know how to position yourself know what to bait out and know how to play around their options with your own options. I don't think from the trajectory the game is taking right now it's becoming too complicated :). (my humble opinion of course.)
my first moba experience and after 36h im starting to regularly win my lane and be strong at end game (i watch a lot of videos about moba and how to counter stuff)
Thank you for bringing up the complexity issue. I’m having a blast with the game, but sometimes the random mechanics can really feel tacked on. I personally dislike the infinite ammo when sliding feature, as it comes off as a “why even bother” addition of a mechanic.
I don't agree with the last point about the "Minigame" Cause there is actually 6 heroes in the enemy team. You can counter one character but the other one will now have easier time with you.
I introduced a couple friends into deadlock, they got 0 kills and double digit deaths, they said they had a still great time. The best thing any PvP game can do is make losing still enjoyable.
I actually really like your item analogy at the end, you just forget that it is balanced around the race for money/souls so it is not as simple as he buy A i buy B. You dont always got the liquid for it.
And you don't always have to buy an active trump card like he's implying. You can focus on what you do and try to beat them to the punch. You can itemise with more passive items. You character may have abilities that naturally help in these unwanted situations. Etc.
Dota also has cheesy item combos you can use to instantly blow someone up but its fine bc those items like refresher are on a huge cooldown and cost a stupid amount to invest in, so yeah they'll let you instagib someone but you'll be far weaker in other ways so it really just becomes a way to balance out if is insanely fed on the enemy team, and the counter items to that are often far more versatile and applicable so its not that big a problem to counter. If you ever play dota you'll see that even though there are so many more "hard counters" in the character abilities, with the item and game design it all balances out and you end up with a game that has way more meta variety than league does.
As someone with 0 MOBA experience who uninstalled the game earlier today I would almost guarantee no one who doesn't have experience with MOBAs is gonna be convinced by this one...the shooting part is just mid. It's not interesting enough to make me want to invest hundreds of hours to want to learn the other systems and abilities of what feels like 378 heroes
I hate how closed access is. Some of us older gamers don’t have time to socialize with other gamers and just want to game. Lord knows I’ve given Valve enough money and literal years of my life.
it's closed because it's not supposed to be open yet. the fact that they have 100k+ players that able to play this game that is still this early in development is insane. This game wasn't supposed to be allowed to be discussed publicly this early. This particular build of the game is geared towards playtesters not necessarily casual gamers.
if you go on the steam forums or reddit, there are threads dedicated to inviting people into the alpha. i just went in there and requested an invite and boom i had an invite
What the point at the end is missing about rock paper scissors items misses in that one of the final or top tier skills in Dota is item cd management. Refresher bkb etc have decently long CDs. Meaning your micro read on being strong vs weak eventually has to incorporate all these timers. Refresher being the easiest as its or was when i last played 3 minutes long. That skill cap in combination with the mastery of everything else makes the pro scene quite interesting to watch.
I would say, from a pure design perspective, this game has fun, smooth, and smart core mechanics that works well and complement gameplay in a way that makes it feel well-made, regardless of whether it’s for you or not. So yeah, it's just a good game. P.S.: I think your concerns at the end of the video about builds becoming gimmicky and creating challenges through knowledge checks, especially as they trickle down to lower elos, are valid. It's also what happened to dota 2. One of the reasons dota 2 not being as successful as league is that while league also have its own issues, it doesn't knowledge-check you as hard as dota 2 early, which makes it easier to get into. From what I understand, valve or rather icefrog loves implementing such mechanics, which is also what happened to their card game, artifact. Though artifact also had monetization problems, i think deadlock will have dota 2’s high number of active items and constant counter-counter builds while probably being well balanced still will always be present, especially at the pro level. The real question is whether valve can maintain-or even care about-an easier entry point for new players. Based on their track record, that seems unlikely. We might end up seeing riot’s version of this game, which would likely become a more commercially successful version.
@@thelaw3536 I did not said anything about losing nor said anything about steam metrics did i ?I just pointed out well known truth and fact that when compared, dota 2 did not reached anything near to leagues player count and popularity which is shame since i think it deserves it more.
@@Azdur Which asides from Valve being so lazy at marketing the game, isn't actually Valve's fault. Riot simply got a huge headstart releasing League of Legends first while also trimming what they deemed unnecessary complexity from wc3 dota mod. Even Riot coining the "Moba" term is genius marketing and made it look like they invented the genre when in reality it goes all the way back from wc3 Dota.
@@Azdur Are you gaslighting? Saying a game is less successful is saying it's doing worse. You're post is in regard to how that will affect this game's performance metric wise.
I think they already doing a good job of simplifying most of dota knowlege check while keeping it deep, for new player i think Most will start pick up alot of things after around 3/4 games and this game match also paced wayyyyyy better organicaly than dota2.
I get your criticism at the end, but I think the more you'll play the game the better you will understand that. While sometimes it can be like that when you just cancel each other out, the trick is to get that item before the other player, than it becomes more about maximizing the early game to get those resources. Also consider that this game should be played in organized teams and not with randoms, you can get a combination of items together which adds more strategy than just considering your oponent's build. At a certain level of play the game becomes about timings, not about reaching the better or more countering build eventually. You and your enemy will not get all those items at the same time, so it becomes about pressing the adventage before they reach their timing, or avoiding a fight and trying to stall when you are behind in timing, than once you get the counter you have a few minutes when the playing field is leveled. But your enemy is closer to their next item than you are, so their plan might be to avoid you for the time being since you are more equal but soon they will be stronger, so they might as well wait, you might choose to use this time to take as many objectives as possible while they avoid you. In addition your enemy might decide to not spend their Souls/Gold/whatever until they see your next item, you might think you got ahead but you actually didn't they just waited to see what will you buy so they buy the best possible answer to that etc. The point is you shouldn't think about the late game as the point you and your enemy fight with your "true forms" to determin the winner, but you should view the entire game as an ongoing war, with fights, intel gathering and an arms race all happening simoultaniously, similarly to a real war, that is the best way imo to makes sense of it and to reach the next level, and also to not get too frustrated with losing something in the moment, it's a big picture kind of game.
This is the first game in a long time where its just so fun I don't care how the games go, win or lose the games are fun. For a game in closed alpha, it has to be one of the best games ever. Its the first moba I've enjoyed because it takes way more mechanical skill and its really easy to get into
I never played MOBAs or hero shooters and this depth sounds insane (the closest thing to this game I played would probably be Guild Wars 1 and that is not even close to being this complex) Multiplayer games require innovation. You can copy someone's project and call it a day (Concord as a recent example)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Most of the items are inspired by dota items. Lots of people are indirectly learning why dota is so amazing right now honestly. League is really nothing like dota in terms of how much impact active items and build choices make. Any hero can blink across the whole screen. Any hero can turn you into a chicken. Any hero can cast their ultimate twice in a row.
I still prefer league because it feels a lot better mechanically than Dota, but in terms of itemization and character diversity it's the clear winner
Yeah but DOTA feels like shit to play compared to League. Every character feels clunky af. I like DOTA because its characters are cool and shit but the moment to moment gameplay feels markedly worse imo.
@@tonyluiscomedy the clunkiness is the skill floor or so to say the "how tall you have to be" to play. Because once you are able to play comfortably, its only a matter of time you learn some other movement tech in the game. Movement alone can differentiate you and the sheeps. This is happening in Deadlock as well. The fact that deadlock restricts you with stamina to do extra movement is to seperate you from the other sheeps. How to maximize your movement and stamina to get to safety. How to quickly get from one point to the other. How to dodge certain aoe with minimal movement rather than spamming movement abilities. With restriction comes inovations. That's why players keep coming back. It's also why people coming back to league. Same concept but applies differently to every champion.
@@tonyluiscomedy is not that character is clunky, is just that dota 2 has turn rate, the map is bigger and the artstyle is not as "attractive" as the one league has
@@tonyluiscomedy Its cus there is turnrate in dota makes it very different feeling.
The final points definitely reflect dota in a sense. However I would argue, that is a good design. Valve multiplayer games loves to have knowledge checks in order to have fun in it. CS with smokes, footsteps, gun sound,economy. TF2 with gun variance, movement, spychecks, turret spots, health and ammo location. Dota 2 with ults, passives, counters, cooldowns. It may seem like it is unfair now, but the game requires it to ensure at all levels, mechanic isn't the only end all be all. You might no be as skilled mechanically, but knowledge alone can carry you into a higher rank until you hit your threshold. But the reverse is also true, knowledge alone can't win you games, the mechanics will also be challenged at different rank of the game at the same time. It creates an ecosystem for both style of players to flourish.
Absolutely. The complexity of those games are Valves bread and butter. Only played Dota here and there but knowing how to buy items according to the enemy threats and how to play around enemy strenghts and take advantage of situations is a large part of what makes those games fun. Some people will be driven away by that, which I understand, but there is enough of us who dig this.
I stiil think its a valid criticism because this overcomplexiy IS the reason why dota stoped receiving new players.
said it better than i ever could I'm about to hit 70 hours in deadlock and every character can get really powerful if built right its all just skill checks when you get late game and that's the fun part! i didn't spend 30 minutes pushing lanes n farming creeps to not be able to wreck someone and if i mess up then there's equal chance for them to clap me too.
@@gumsword3596 its more complex to look at but when you actually get in and play a few matches you start to figure it out pretty quick. building characters is the only more complex part but there's just premade community builds to use anyway.
Sadly, this skill check would also eventually lead to low player bases, just like Dota and CS.
I honestly think the game being invite only has likely helped a lot with holding players. you generally make your mind up whether you like a game or not in the first few hours of playing. having it invite only increases the chances that the first time your'e playing the game you are playing with a friend. Not only does playing with a friend make a MOBA a lot more fun, but it also benefits the new player as they can help walk them through the game a little bit. I think this likely helps with first impressions.
Without friends I wouldn't have survived my first 2h. Alone I would've Alt+F4 & uninstalled halfway through the first match.
Never played a MOBA, so I was completely overwhelmed and still am 😂 But now I love it, its a fun game for 6 friends.
Wrong. Lots of people are joining through discord codes or other codes posted online then removing the person. Or they just got an invite from someone on their friends list. I sent an invite to all my friends just incase they wanna play.
@@JuiceBox000 i have a giveaway role in the unofficial server, i have invited maybe 20 people who i dont know, but i know people who invited hundreds
@@brynion2117 exactly
@@misterperson7070 good for you pal. Literally no one gives a single f*ck.
Hearing you complain about the complexities of item counters made me smile because as a dota player, that's just business as usual.
But does it make Deadlock a better game?
We be out here making hard carry IO builds 😂😂😂😂😂 deadlock just like dota tho frfr
Not everyone is addicted.
I am not addicted.
I am NOT addicted.
I AM NOT ADDICTED!!!!!!!
Overdosed it is
So you have chosen death... 💀💀
……… I AM ADDICTED !!!!!!
*jumps to play another match for five hours*
He can stop anytime, guys!
... just after this next match.
Then he'll stop.
@@marqod1437 Yes of course
Maybe another match
This sounds to me like a League player finding out Dota mechanics for the first time. And getting baffled how it's all balanced
so many of them can't understand how pause is in game lol
And complaining that it’s too complex lmao
If every thing is overpowered nothing is overpowered.
My bullshit strategy counters your bullshit strategy and then his bullshit strategy counters my bulshit strategy.
Its the icefrog way. Have fun being op at whatever you do. Everyone else is too.
DotA 2 a game when the heroes role is not limited by the developer design but by the insanity and creativity of its player lol.
its crazy how this game isnt even out yet and its putting up insane numbers
The item rock paper scissors complaint doesn’t play out as you described. The team that gets ahead in souls will hold a rock and a paper while you are stuck with a pair of scissors.
Well, it helps that you can steal souls. I've had many matches where I came back after dying a few times in a row, not having the highest score, or having most of our lanes wrecked. The good thing is very few games are completely one-sided. I just finished a 5v6 game where 2 people on my team were also like 0-9 and lost their lanes. We were still able to win. If you look at the graphs at the end, both teams are usually really close, which is not the case in most games. They did a great job with this one.
You can always get back into the match at any point in the game, but most ppls mental explodes before it gets to that point were yall can bring it back, you just gotta not do push fight rather defend fights and try to take as many souls from the enemies
Sort of. Teams that are ahead can stay ahead, like any MOBA. But you can buy Curse, or Knockup, to instantly counter most of the teamfight ults in the game. Very possible to come back, since teams have to overextend so much to hit the nexus.
@@iSOBigD doesn't help at all. you get a slightiest of advantage - it's a steamroll. the point of the game is to get that advantage, in my experience
there are little to zero games that aren't one sided btw cuz making an actually working matchmaking system is not about valve
@@FatBoyLardyin my experience if I'm behind on souls and can just jungle for 5-10minutes and possibly hard carry the team, but I am a 7ues player
This game is what i thaught hero shooters were as a og dota player and so incredibly disappointed by overwatch etc, lets see how this goes.
This is what OW should have been
@@horticulturalist7818fucking exactly dude
Overwatch was never meant to be a MOBA, but more of a frankenstein version of TF2. Up to season 4 the game was great, and between season 10-11 it got good again, but that was it.
Only a few months where i genuinely felt the urge to be competitive
@@brushrunner it would have been better if it was like ARAM IMO
Paladins was closer to that
MOBAs need that complexity. Without it, the game becomes solved incredibly quickly and you just have mirror match meta like we saw in Overwatch. Can't wait to see Valve weave their magic like they did with Dota 2.
mirror match? there can just be picking in ranked, like in dota and paladins
The thing is, once people stop playing with friends, only tryhards will be left, because casuals dont want to play incredibly complex and taxing game, while also getting shafted due to how snowbally this game is in its design.
@@lukrumble3295Every competitive game ever. Like it or leave it🤷🏻♂️
I always wondered why Blizzard didn't expand Overwatch into something in the direction of a MOBA. It would've solved the constant 6v6 ball of characters vs ball of characters that would happen the beginning to the end of every match. They needed something similar to lanes or small side objectives to force people to split up a bit. Thankfully Valve gave us a huge playground of a map, with lots of different strategy opportunities.
@@thecooljohn100 not every. This game has way to steep point of entry and its not knowledge based like LoL or complex mechanics like DotA. Its the sheer, overwhelming amount of awerness you are required to have at every second of the game, which is tiring (even thing like rotations from lane to lane requires engagement higher, than simple click). This game doesnt have any downtime, except when moving on grapple to the lane and back.
Additionally, pretty much every other competetive game has some sort of mechanic, that can help you stay in game after either unfortunate event or bad matchup. This game doesnt.
The soul system is currently the main culprit that will kill 90% of the player base after about 4 months into its official launch. It is massive snowball mechanism, that doesnt allow for comebacks. In other mobas, you get xp system or passive gold (equivalent of souls) generation, so that you will stay somewhat relevant into later stages of the game, in case of rolling bad matchup etc. Here you just get infinitely shafted as scaling is tied to soul system only.
Just imagine if LoL or Dota removed passive gold generation and tied level progression to amount of gold you have, people would just rebel as every game (not just most but nearly every single one) would be basically decided in first 5-10 minutes as one side just got more gold, that gains them more gold and denies you gold as well.
Deadlock needs to redesign its power progression as quickly as possible, to stay relevant for longer time.
I think another good point is the lore, world building, and the sheer amount of interesting details they’ve already started to put into Deadlock, even in its current phase of development. Stuff like the sun always being eclipsed and knowing the world is full of real paranormal events leads to a lot of fun and interesting ideas for Valve to work with. It’s fun hearing the radio news talk about an event but then mention a character from the roster since they live in the world which is greatly appreciated
Today I looked at the characters background stories. I see Yamatos and its all in japanese 😂. Then I go read some more until I hit Lash, and its just the singular sentence "Jacob Lash is an asshole" 🤣 man valve never disappoints with it's character writing hahahaha
I think Deadlock excels in keeping the complex builds and character interactions from MOBAs but simplifying some of the hindering stuff like mana, wards, base TPs and potions. Just having cooldowns and fast lane transport feels amazing.
From having a background in DOTA, I think it's interesting to see people's perspectives on items and crowd control. I haven't played much League but I believe DOTA has more active items and longer stuns/disables (not a quality assessment).
What you're describing with Vicious and blink is functionally identical to what Pangolier's ultimate with a blink dagger in DOTA is. Dynamo's blink, ultimate, refresh, and repeat is essentially the same combination used by Engima in DOTA. If Dynamo/Engima get off a full duration double ultimate on the entire enemy team, you're going to win the fight and probably should win. The mechanics/potential plays existing don't give me pause and have existed in DOTA forever.
Where I think things could be problematic is that there aren't really roles. DPS/Carries are often the most popular roles in these kind of games and they'll generally lack support and saving items/abilities. In DOTA (and I assume League), Supports will happily sacrifice themselves to save their Carries. Ivy's Stone Form, Bebop's Hook, Vicious's The Cube, and Wraith's Telekinesis all seems like pretty effective ways at countering a Dynamo Ultimate with relative low commitment but if everyone is playing selfishly, then they might go unchecked.
I like the no predefined roles, it encourages people to actually team play if you want to go to high elo, any hero can go utility or damage rn, also makes the solves the toxicity problem of people wanting or only knowing how to play certain roles
thats why its a teamgame brother the skill check is also part of the game , Your teammates should be saving each other thats part of the game
@@Epig420 I do too. I'm a Support player and lean towards utility and not damage. My favorite thing in DOTA was playing Carries as Support. There's been a lot of examples of too many people wanting to play Carry/DPS and that's why DOTA eventually added role queue. Overwatch queue times between roles would also reflect this.
i've been played league for a decade and in leage is completly different, in league we either have tank support or "dmg support" and the only like enchanter hero are picked in pro play and the funny thing is the "dmg support" is usually mage that just fucking out perform other kind of support in any other ways they have cc which is stadard for any character but they have alot of ap(ability power) scaling to their heal which mean a completly bust mage can just go full ap and one shot any backline character and heal or give a 800 hp sheild to their kit and lol does have a active support item but there're like 3 main active support item for the whole itemlist and it just make the game more braindead as the time goes on. when i start trying dota2 just feel better in everyway except the input delay.
The best support hero in the game is currently Kelvin. His ult dome, ice path, and slowing ray gives your team a heck ton of utilities to win a brawl.
When you realize Deadlock literally TF2 and Dota2 spiritual successor.
You final complaints about items and knowledge checks just scream "I play league, not dota", and honestly its the price you pay for what you talked about earlier, the incredibly strong/broken item combos that you can get. If dotas design philosphy over the years is anything to go by you will 100% this these values tweaked, improved and adjusted with most likely additional variables added or some removed to make this balanced, but it wont get taken out.
Guess we'll all wait for Riots clone then.
Yeah, refresher orb and blink dagger have been in DOTA 2 for as long as I can remember. Is someone having 2 ultimates OP? YOU BET. But it's not always the best option for the game, and sometimes the counter for it is just not clustering together as a team, or baiting the ultimate, and instead of counter buying an item to counter it, the best option often times is to just buy something offensively to just make your hero much better. That OP comho can't hurt you if you kill the hero before they get to use it.
These things will play out better over time but they are definitely not going away.
They need to add BKB if it's not in the game yet.😂
@@night8285 It is and it blocks even Dynamo's Blackhole for example
@@letflyyriot clone no deny. No wall jump, No active items just stats check. Unlimited slide ammo out
I like the design philosophy of knowledge checks tbh and counters to counters to counters, it makes it so that mechanics aren’t the only thing that wins you games but also foresight planning strategy etc
"League of Legends player discovers Dota2 for the first time, but through another game."
The easiest turnoff for a League Player trying Dota2 is the input delay. For no reason. It just feels like garbage if you are used to League. Deadlock doesn't make this mistake, game is super snappy.
@@hiiambarney4489 Theres no delay, there is animations.
@@hiiambarney4489 dota has turn rate, league players often keep moving like they're playing cod
any action in dota depends on where your character's body is facing, so your character needs to face that direction to shoot that direction and that might require turning their body if they were not already facing that way
deadlock would feel horrible with turn rate or slow movement acceleration, because it's incorporating shooter elements as the main player control system
i'd say it's how strategy and action game works, a blend between the two would have both elements in different ratio
i'd say listing from strategy to action i'd place the 3 games as dota - league - deadlock, so deadlock should feel more snappy and a player's performance should rely more on mechanical skills than league, while dota should make a player consider every move more often than league
@hiiambarney4489 it is not a mistake, it is a deliberate design decision. Turn rates gives melee heroes the ability to compete with ranged heroes so they don't just get kited.
@@hiiambarney4489turn rates balance melee heroes believe it or not, next time you say ranged top cancer just know dota designed melee’s to be balanced
I'm 100% addicted, but holy shit the wasd shenanigans are next level on some of these pros
If your in the game is it possible to get a friendly Invite? would meen the world for me !
@@balin2195 ill add u whats ur steam
Same
@@skinnybuggo whats your steam?
@@comq01 same name as here and pic
I was genuinely burnt out of multiplayer games for along time but this game is special. Even if I’m losing I’m having so much fun with how many things you can do.
Same, I actually created a steam account and got an invite before I even owned or played a pc(console player since 93) no looking back now though, love it
In dota there is 'buyback', the ability to instantly respawn by paying money. This is one of many way to counter this long cooldown cc with refresher. They might add this system in future iteration. Another way is by drafting a hero counter. Competitive dota game does not start when the game start, but in the draft stage. It is a highly strategical game where draft really matter. To be a successful competitive player, you are required to know how to play many hero since it leads to drafting advantage. Unlike fighting games, the concept of 'maining' a hero is not prevalent in Dota 2. Some player have their signature hero, but they usually are highly skilled at playing at least another 5 or 6 heroes as well.
This is what im waiting for, buybacks into comebacks
Its gonna come I think. Icefrog is one of the devs in this game.
The rune that you get from mid boss reduced your respawn time by 50%. It also change your allied creeps into mega/super creeps.
I don't think buyback would be implemented into the game, because there are other mechanics that act like one.
Respawn time in Deadlock is much faster than Dota and capped up to 70 seconds. Deadlock's Midboss spawn Rejuvenator that gives the whole team half respawn time. Rather than Dota's Roshan that gives the Aegis that only help one player. And there's also rebirth item that can help you win or escape a gank.
This way it's much more punishing for players who make mistakes and left the base undefended.
Defending the base is also much easier because of how it's designed. You just need the whole team to not die in order to comeback.
@@Doflaminguard he is just not one of thee devs, but he is the guy, this game is basically his child
The item complexity is going to be a selling point rather than a hinderance to me. It allows the enemy to shut you down, but it also allows you to shut the enemy down and play around them. This is the design philosophy of Dota 2 and IceFrog. When you know what is at your disposal and itemize around it, you can truly make your hero shine much like how it is in Dota.
I mean, yeah, when Riot ripsoff Deadlock with their own version, they will likely port over the LoL item design philosophy of just being statsticks, and they will likely have your base champion be able to handle every situation. But I find this is what going to be the major difference between Dota and LoL inspirations, as Deadlock will be allowed to make truly unique and interesting characters because the items will make up any shortfalls.
I love the "when" lmaooo. It's true tho. Tencent loves their $$$$$$$$$$$$
the item complexity also offers a different playstyles for almost any heroes
@@JuiceBox000Watch as it's gonna have way worse shooting & movement lmfao
For me, items are the main reason I couldn't get into the game. I wish there was an auto buy mechanic kinda like in paladins for those that want it. Imo that would break down the main barrier of entrance
@@redtheyiffer Yoiu have premade builds dude .. just click each item in order in the shop. not that hard.
And you know the best thing about Dota 2/Deadlock style of balancing? No amount of casuals reddit/forum whining going to have major effect in balancing the characters since it always balanced on high-skill playstyle. Seven OP? Ok. Seven not that successful in high bracket? = Seven not gonna get touched in balance patches
What league should be and people will always whine about it no matter the competitive game
That’s not really the positive you think it is, only appealing to the 1% or just the pros doesn’t make the game better
@@juna8572 That's hyperbole. We aren't talking about the 1% of pros, we're talking about the top 30% (People who actually understand several characters and have mastered the fundamentals). It doesn't really matter what they focus on for balance so long as it's consistent. I hate how many competitive games bend the knee to angry mobs on the internet (most of who don't even play the game...)
Well the truth is that you can never truly balance a competitive game unless you want it to be a soulless husk since players are always gonna be finding ways to exploit certain features, abilities, or items.
If somebody uses a refresher ONLY to kill you, then the rest of your team sucks, so you’ve lost already. Also, the top tier items give you crazy advantages - you are comparing a Tier 4 Refresher to a Tier 3 Remove Debuffs, which is not a fair argument to make.
My point is, the item dance mini-game is a thing in MOBAs and it’s a part of the teamfight micro. The complaint isn’t fair if only made about this game
On the mention of amount of buttons and hand conrol needed for them: I literally got tendinitis from only 10 or so hours in this game and have been out of work for almost 2 months. It busted BOTH my hands. Game that makes you have to go to physical therapy, I wish I was joking. Make sure to do stretches and take breaks or else youll be stuck like me, only being able to spectate 😭
Either something is wrong with your hands, your sitting posture and your table or you just need to make your hands more relaxed during gaming. A lot of hand pain complaints usually come from people who instead of lightly tapping buttons or holding mouse in a relaxed position are constantly straining their hands, it's usually because you're not used to those actions and you don't have muscle memory yet, but your still trying to do it quick by force
@egrassa1480 it's absolutely a repetitive stress injury that probably included bad posture, but no doubt Deadlock pushed it over the edge. I've had 3-4 other friends complain about their carpal tunnel flaring up for the first time in years from this game :(
@@moopleaf none of my friends had such experience, despite all of us being fighting game players for years. Seems like a bad coincidence
Dota literally has 2 refresher items and they aren’t as gamebreaking as you suggest.
Its got the depth of dota while not feeling like youre slamming into a cliff of a Knowledge check. Its still there for sure but its easier to get into, you feel less confused when an enemy walks up and blows you up as is tradition in dota.
The smaller cast also helps tremendously for this. Learning this small cast of characters is so easy when you imagine say, if you tried dota or league for the first time in your life right now. Youre just not gonna understand the cast for hundreds of hours where as it doesnt take nearly as long in this gane
THIS is the thing I have always wanted from a MOBA. I've tried to get into them, but I jut never could get the hang of the fact that you need to stand still in order to attack, which always means people moved out of the way. AND it's set in a stylized version of the early 20th century with hero shooter elements and a heavy mobility focus??? FCK. YES.
7.5k hours in tf2, 6.8 in OW/OW2. Guess I found my new main game. I need to get into the alpha.
I can invite you if you'd like
where do people get the codes honestly haha, been waiting for marvel rivals to come out to replace ow2 but this might also be it due to moba having a very high skill floor and ceiling(i never played any moba before)
@@michael21-ou2yt only way is an invite from someone in the play test currenty
@@Separrimcould please share an invite with me?
@@michael21-ou2yt For Deadlock, someone in your Steam Friend's list who has access needs to invite you. There's no "code" to get in, it's by invite only.
TLDR: The game design reflect Dota's philosophy
I also thought about the counter counter counter that will happen in high level play but I remembered I played dota 2 and If someone really hates you that much that they want to shut you down specificially then they are not countering your other 5 mates, counters are investments, also what I want from Valve however is for them to not listen to "pros" and just listen to the casual community and I guess thats why they politely asked the Deadlock tracker website to chill out stop recording winrates and just play for now because at the end of the day this game took a novel approach to both Moba and Shooter, for me the best thing about this game is the verticality, ive already seen people utilizing rooftops as ganking routes, with Hopoo devs jumping ship to Valve the fluidity of the movement system suddenly makes so much sense, this is my Risk of Rain 3
RIP Risk of Rain 2. They sold it off to Gearbox and Gearbox pretty much ruined the game.
Is risk of rain 1 still worth a play?
@@brushrunner Get Risk of Rain Returns instead. It's basically the first game remade on a new engine with better multiplayer and new content.
So the whole video basically is about League player discovering what makes Dota-like genre good😅 I'm glad, that after all these years people are finally switching from Chinese DOTA rip off for browsers to the original game!
Fuck Pendragon. We Remember the DotaAllstar Website Slander. iykyk
nobody is switching from League go Dota lmaoo look at the numbers
@@kphd9 League is definitely more popular but look at what numbers? Dota has steamcharts, Riot just says random number they take from their ass.
The problem with dota is that valve is doing jack shit for its esport league, LoL esport is MILES ahead of dota by far, and thats coming from a guy that has been playing dota since 2012 and always been "against lol" in this silly war. just look at todays international, honestly valve makes good game when they do, but in terms of building on their league and keeping a game alive, they suck so bad. i think thats gonna be dota downfall sadly
@@efwfew if by "miles ahead "you mean bribing tournament organizations, blackmailing estport commentators and capitalizing on s***** personas skins - then yeah, it's way f****** miles ahead of everyone in game industry!
This is a rare, very deep analysis of the game state and gameplay that is not just surface level. I can tell you have countless hours in this game and are actually invested in it. Very good video thank you look forward to new content!
It is frustrating to have to counter spec but counter-items are usually cheaper than the offensive-item equivalent.
The fact is, usually, If you need to invest in counters, it means you are behind. It is frustrating but you have to eat it. That's a consequence of losing the laning phase. Now that you are behind you will probably be trumpled on micro battles fought directly. That is part of MOBAs people have to get used to.
Being on the receiving end of a snowball in MOBAs might be very frustating but learning to turn it around is what makes them competitive. Strategic knowledge is essential, basically, defense must excel in Macro. The defensive team has to make the offensive team pay the price each engagement. It must seek to battle only when they have the advantage, this is an art on itself. Denying map control while knowing when to fall back is very difficult. The Offensive team will pressure by controlling the map resources if defense is too passive. They will try to gather all resources and this pressures an disadvantegous engagement. Defense must preempt this by gathering information and by positioning to punish.
Other things like target priority and advantegeous ganks are required too. Sometimes killing the offensive carrie is enough to stop offensive teams momentum.
Creep waves timings are great sources of pressure. Controling all this while fighting battles is supper difficult but it is possible to turn games around.
Hello Dota player :)
Played a game yesterday as Haze where I got absolutely trounced in lane by an Abrams. He had 43 denies on me. I had 1. Thirty minutes later, I wiped his entire team with a well itemized ult and we won. As a Dota guy who understands the ABCCs (always be collectin' cash), how to establish a farming pattern, and how to itemize to counter, I'm loving wrecking these FPS guys with much better aim but no gamesense. Game rules, there's something for everyone.
@@DaKilldozer Same here my fellow Dota player. I've won a significant number of games from a losing lane (as a boomer it's just so hard to keep up with these possibly young fps players reaction nerves) by doing proper farming and split pushing. Sometimes my lane opponent would get tilted and salty in all chat as we won and I'd just tell them this game is in its core a strategy game.
I suck so hard at this game. I can’t even get a kill but I LOVE IT
Yeah even when I'm doing bad in a game I'm having a good time, it speaks volumes to the design of the game
We should play together. I also can't get kills, but if we play together, between the two of us, we might be able to scrape together a kill.
Maybe.
Sure. But are you dying? That's the more important question, imo. If you're not getting kills, the least you can do is not feed the enemy. Better to play safe and get no kills then try to chase those kills and get yourself killed in the process. That way, when a better player than you takes on your enemy laner, they're that much easier to kill bceause you didn't feed them.
@@chrishaven1489 Agreed, doing bad is sometimes doing alright. MOBA baby.
@@chrishaven1489 I agree, but there is a learning curve of sorts. I've been playing FPS games for nearly 20 years, but I have little MOBA experience.
So before I was even willing to set foot in a match, I was playing BOT matches, to learn the game. But even then, it is still a different experience going up against players, because it is faster.
Quite often, by the time I realise I am about to die, I am already down. So it takes time to learn the warning signs, learn the classes, learn the abilities and upgrades etc.
And I would say, I have been improving, but I still make a lot of mistakes because I don't back off quickly enough. And some of the players I have gone up against are very aggressive in chasing you down to kill you, even to the point of completely over-extending.
I think the game has a good onboarding , lanes are color coded, can play any character in any lane, map is great, simple to follow last hits , you see yours being shot so you shoot theirs, and you suck at building so just use communities till you figure it out , so much better than most mobas that just throw you in and say good luck
Thank you for this video i watched 2 minutes of it and immediately got on reddit to get an invite for it been playing for 4 days now and im hooked
Glad youre enjoying it! Its super fun!
Bro... You explained Dota so well!! In fact, I'll link to this video anytime next time someone asks me about it. Thanks!! Much appreciated!
I really love having Dota in third person
Wait til they keep adding more and more powerful items. Valves moba strategy is make everything extremely powerful. It’s amazing. It’s fun.
I play LoL, Dota2, and OW2 I've wanted a game like this for a while I LOVE it so much
4:52 THIS IS SO TRUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GOD DAMM It's very difficult to explain but you did it amazing.
Its crazy most of people that I know mocking the game artstyle back when it was closed test saying that its going to flop turns 180° after they play the game and now are addicted to it
People were actually shitting on this game during all the tf2 bot wave heat, and yet when the Valve acknowledges this game - everyone loves it.
I'm still not sold on the art style, but once I played the game I had to admit that it's actually good.
Honestly what’s crazy is my entire friend group has moved onto this game and we haven’t done this since valorant first dropped so it’s been fun
What's amazing is that despite similar games like Savage coming out as much as 22 years (!) before this game, as well as Demigod (15 years) and Paragon (8 years) having better graphics back then, Deadlock still manages to be fun and addictive because cares about gameplay above all else. Little tweaks, little improvements, and good art style and concepts despite not having the best graphics, that's what gamers want and that's what will make this game successful for many years just like previous Valve games.
League players describing what it feels like to play dota 2 for the first time. Playing normal football at minute 0 which eventually at minute 35 turned into shaolin soccer is icefrog's way.
One thing I hate from normal shooters is it's 90% about mechanical skill, there's barely art of war in it.
I’m of the opinion that Valve releases exclusively bangers when dropping new IP, excited for the day this drops fully because it’s gonna be huge.
Remember Evolve?
@@jesse76th96 I retract what I said; but I don’t think Evolve was as a bad as it was received at the time. Still, point to you.
Playing Deadlock made me realize how fun MOBAs can be when I thought sitting for one hour on a single match is tiring. I finally picked up Mobile Legends on my phone ever since I last played it with my friends back in high school (3+ years ago). Right now I don't even want to optimize my gameplay (probably my laning in general). I just want to explore and have fun.
I'm thinking, though. Isn't this flexibility just a perceived thing, maybe, since the game is so new? Maybe as time passes we get to learn what truly is meta on the game, and then everything else becomes obsolete since everyone is running meta. This is difficult to tell, and obviously we all wish that builds are this flexible.
It's a good evening with a new mug video and some ice cream
I've reached the tier of "RUclipsr to watch with food". I am super happy, and hope the ice cream was great!
Personally what makes the game so good to me are two things, firstly unlike dota and league the game doesn't feel like ass to control. The moba gameplay has always been a fun loop held back by a very very limited movement, smite worked on that a bit but it was still limited, having full three dimensional movement helps the game feel so much better to play and actually makes movement feel like a useful skill that can help you rather than just the point a to point b tool dota and league have.
Secondly the items being impactful and wacky is so much better than how some games just have stat sticks as literally everything, while I'd like certain unfun items to get tweaked (mostly the ones that perpetuate stun builds) I love the weird obscure and sometimes overpowered combos you can pull with the items.
One thing I'm excited about is when they allow custom games, the custom game potential of this is also insane.
Co-op horde shooters could be so fun.
The public availability of builds is a game changer people underestimate.
Any noob can use a shopping list designed by some tryhard pro streamer
Nice video my friend! I'm playing deadlock and I'm from Brazil!
8:19 insane movement 💀
Something dramatic they could do to limit the abuse of cc inducing items is to make some items only effective with other conditions besides the purchase price. Like the time of the stun or silence is dependant on ability power which means for it to be useful it needs to be fairly late game but also can only be used if you're doing certain builds. Making items conditional so that they're effectively useless for characters who might abuse them but avaliable for characters and builds that actually need them.
The alternative is to not have activatable items which apply stuns and silences. Make that something some characters have abd balance those unique abilities, but don't make it purchasable. Items should help you use skills more than give you a crutch to not have to.
What if items like curse didn't make you helpless but instead made your abilities do no damage, like disarming for spirit damage. Your attempt to attack can by thwarted but you're not suddenly trapped with no eacape. So many ability focused characters have mobility based on their abilities so having it all turned off is too much. You might as well make it an auto kill button.
The funny anvil drop is great, especially with the delay letting you know to get around a corner before it hits. What about more cartoon silliness like an item that makes the screen all blurry for 30 seconds like the character is dizzy. Things that can interrupt an attack but don't cripple.
Those items now are used for teams to single out and bully individual people but they should be for people to escape being singled out and bullied.
Even some of the skill names are the same in Dota 2, "Phantom Strike" "Assassinate" and maybe some couple more names out there that i haven't yet discover.
I think that there will not be a problem for you in the future when mmr is introduced. The people who are highskill and chose to go for counters with items will place in that bracket, and the lowerskilled players who dont wanna think to much about active items and countering items will just end up in lower brackets and have fun there in thier own space :D
Ive put about 30 games in and im addicted alrdy! As a person who plays a lot of moba and shooters it feels like a perfect blend. Right now pocket is my favorite with wraith and abrams being my other two. Looking forward to see the growth of this game
15:50 there is an item in dota2 also called refresher orb and yes it can also reset all cooldown of your skills at the cost of high mana, but not all heroes in dota2 build that and also it is so expensive to build
In IceFrog we trust
To add to those that say why it's only one map. It's like many other physical sports games like football, tennis, basketball, etc. There is only one standard field or arena.
Once again, Ice Frog finest quality: If everything is broken, then its balance.
The only complaint I have about it is that even if I put a character as high priority to choose, it can take me up to 10 games to get a game with it. Which considering games can be 20-30 minutes long is kinda crazy. I hope they add a mode where you can choose one character only and having longer waiting times. I've had times where I played as McGinnis 4 games in a row without ever swapping to the other 4 characters I had in my roster.
In another note, I think you are right, I've had many teammates who jump into the game, die 3 or 4 times in a row, completely confused and then ragequit. I don't know how you fix that with a moba, since I feel like from the start, the genre needs you to understand quite a lot of things to properly function as a player.
I've been off of competitive games for like 2 years and this shit is bringing me back to the toxic gamer roots, but damn the feel of having a game that I can play everyday is goddamn good, I've been missing it.
I know dota 2 had 40 million dollar pricepools and have a huge player base, but videos like this makes me feel how many people are still missing out on the OG/Masterpiece MOBA which dota 2 is. Nothing against lol but definitely made lot of players miss out on dota.
Also for the last point, if you ever get a chance see pro match (as VOD would be available easily) where treant and Enigma play game of chicken (with their ults), the layer of mind game is insane! And insanely satisfying.
I finally got access this week to play this game, it was indeed frustrating for me since that I play moba's and shooter's, I really felt like the game would just click? But I quickly learned the reason why I am struggling is pretty much itemization on characters. Though everyone says its super simplistic, for some reason it was more confusing in my head than when I first played LoL. Pretty much all I understand about builds at this point is if I'm AA champ mainly, all of my $$ is going to Damage items/defense until late game. If I use more abilities, Spirit/defense.
I have no interest in MOBAs or hero shooters or even online games in general, but I love listening to you talk about pretty much any game because of your knowledge, experience, reasoned opinions, and general enthusiasm. Thank you for the entertainment.
finally we have a new big moba doing something different. we needed this.
I just got an invite a few days ago and I already have 30 hours lol. The only thing I really still want is a good progression system, things like events and more customization, right now even in casual the game can feel super sweaty and it does not feel good to play a 40 minute game just to get rolled, but thats more of a MOBA thing than a dead lock thing i think. but I know its still in alpha at this point so its not a huge deal to me as long as this stuff comes eventually. The core game itself is incredible, the only MOBA thats ever hooked me like this, they just gotta nail the small stuff now and this game could be massive.
Was Yamato supposed to be alien? Cuz Protoss zealots have alien samurai vibe and nerazims have alien ninja/ronin vibe. And dark templars in lotv and Vorazun uses omnislash(in editor).
Yes, she was an alien weeb in her concept art for Neon Prime.
Damn valve is about to make a industry breakthrough again
yeah the aspect of having to counter opp's carry build is very dota-like. You have to do that at the highest level of play, at mid tier you at least have to be aware of it, if not actively counter.
The whole last point of multiple active items is literally the super late game of every Dota 2 game, where you can have 4 default skills, 1 active from Shard and 6 active items - 11 things to use in the fight. And the enemy bought the items to counter/cancel you.
Nothing really new or "damaging" to the game. Works just fine in Dota2 and works just fine in Deadlock.
Love the verticality of the game
Regarding the counter to a counter argument, that's why team composition is very important in dota. Your support, is actually more important than your carry. So you don't need to buy the counter item. Your support will save you with their ability.
For example, in TI 2024 Gaimin vs Liquid, Liquid win because the support is so clutch in using their save skills. Without this clutch save, their carry is useless
I was gonna comment that literally everything you said is how you describe dota but good thing others already commented on it. It is complex but it's not really a shocking or surprising thing to be honest.
i’ve been playing cod sense i was 5 and league sense i was 12. i this game, my twin is top 0.5 percent of this game with him being basically a csgo pro sense 14 and also started playing league around 12 too. so aaaaaa we fucking love this game. it’s soo good and we get the nova feel and why it’s addictive but hey we for 9 years have not been able to cut league out so like we doomed
You could call me a Valve fanboy, and there is a reason. They have never dropped the ball, not once. When they go in on an idea, they have the talent and management to make it cool and super fun. Seeing the polarizing 'releases' of Deadlock and Concord was really telling. Deadlock couldn't have come at a more perfect time to show the world what gamers really want.
I always feel bad of missing out on "hyped" games like this that everyone is talking about - because i can not stand this type of games, 5v5 arena hero shooters etc.
still following these videos tho!
It's not what people think of "Hero Shooter"...
don't feel bad. with all the constant steam sales, you could have 6 lifetimes and still not get through all the games. the FOMO games like black myth wukong, space marines, elden ring dlc, etc., are just the hot thing in town that week to get clicks for content. some people are legitimately excited to play those games, but the whole "you MUST play this now!!" thing is just content creator stuff. i'd argue most games these days are waaaay better purchased like a year or two after they come out--even something as good as Baldur's Gate 3. that game came out 1 year ago and has had lots of bug fixes, extra content added, and they just added more fleshed out "evil" endings and stuff.
@@NykoZeraorait quite literally is. The only thing hero shooter means is having characters with abilities in a shooter in pvp or if you really want to get technical, pve too. Placing a lot of the emphasis on the ability part of the game is the basis of a hero shooter and that’s what they don’t like. More hero than shooter if that makes sense
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 Read again. I put "what people think" for a reason, that's not only what people think about what a Hero Shooter is
@@NykoZeraora my comment goes the same way just im saying what most people think of when they here hero shooter you know? Me and you prob think overwatch or concord (lol), but for people not really big into games it gets put into one bucket called ability spam the game.
New to mobas. This game is great. Honestly feels weird not giving them any money for it lol
As an old dude who never really played a MOBA I got worked in this game and fed kills to the enemy team. I gotta learn to run away when low
about items being potentially too strong or counter play options being too specific and such. I get your point. But Dota has the same things and there you can in the end always just say "git gud" just know what items the enemies have know how to position yourself know what to bait out and know how to play around their options with your own options. I don't think from the trajectory the game is taking right now it's becoming too complicated :). (my humble opinion of course.)
I forget this games in the ALPHA still. Like this is more polished then any full release game thats came out in the past few years
As a non-MOBA player, this explanation was very helpful. Thank you!
my first moba experience and after 36h im starting to regularly win my lane and be strong at end game (i watch a lot of videos about moba and how to counter stuff)
Thank you for bringing up the complexity issue. I’m having a blast with the game, but sometimes the random mechanics can really feel tacked on. I personally dislike the infinite ammo when sliding feature, as it comes off as a “why even bother” addition of a mechanic.
I don't agree with the last point about the "Minigame"
Cause there is actually 6 heroes in the enemy team.
You can counter one character but the other one will
now have easier time with you.
I introduced a couple friends into deadlock, they got 0 kills and double digit deaths, they said they had a still great time. The best thing any PvP game can do is make losing still enjoyable.
Great breakdown. Having thousands hours in quake and dota i find myself very addicted
I actually really like your item analogy at the end, you just forget that it is balanced around the race for money/souls so it is not as simple as he buy A i buy B. You dont always got the liquid for it.
And you don't always have to buy an active trump card like he's implying.
You can focus on what you do and try to beat them to the punch.
You can itemise with more passive items.
You character may have abilities that naturally help in these unwanted situations.
Etc.
Exactly he`s talking like everyone is equal in NW .. wtf league players
Dota also has cheesy item combos you can use to instantly blow someone up but its fine bc those items like refresher are on a huge cooldown and cost a stupid amount to invest in, so yeah they'll let you instagib someone but you'll be far weaker in other ways so it really just becomes a way to balance out if is insanely fed on the enemy team, and the counter items to that are often far more versatile and applicable so its not that big a problem to counter. If you ever play dota you'll see that even though there are so many more "hard counters" in the character abilities, with the item and game design it all balances out and you end up with a game that has way more meta variety than league does.
As someone with 0 MOBA experience who uninstalled the game earlier today I would almost guarantee no one who doesn't have experience with MOBAs is gonna be convinced by this one...the shooting part is just mid. It's not interesting enough to make me want to invest hundreds of hours to want to learn the other systems and abilities of what feels like 378 heroes
Idk about you but I never played a MOBA, and I've been having a blast.
I hate how closed access is.
Some of us older gamers don’t have time to socialize with other gamers and just want to game. Lord knows I’ve given Valve enough money and literal years of my life.
it's closed because it's not supposed to be open yet. the fact that they have 100k+ players that able to play this game that is still this early in development is insane.
This game wasn't supposed to be allowed to be discussed publicly this early. This particular build of the game is geared towards playtesters not necessarily casual gamers.
if you go on the steam forums or reddit, there are threads dedicated to inviting people into the alpha. i just went in there and requested an invite and boom i had an invite
It's invite only access
What the point at the end is missing about rock paper scissors items misses in that one of the final or top tier skills in Dota is item cd management. Refresher bkb etc have decently long CDs. Meaning your micro read on being strong vs weak eventually has to incorporate all these timers. Refresher being the easiest as its or was when i last played 3 minutes long.
That skill cap in combination with the mastery of everything else makes the pro scene quite interesting to watch.
I would say, from a pure design perspective, this game has fun, smooth, and smart core mechanics that works well and complement gameplay in a way that makes it feel well-made, regardless of whether it’s for you or not. So yeah, it's just a good game.
P.S.: I think your concerns at the end of the video about builds becoming gimmicky and creating challenges through knowledge checks, especially as they trickle down to lower elos, are valid. It's also what happened to dota 2. One of the reasons dota 2 not being as successful as league is that while league also have its own issues, it doesn't knowledge-check you as hard as dota 2 early, which makes it easier to get into. From what I understand, valve or rather icefrog loves implementing such mechanics, which is also what happened to their card game, artifact. Though artifact also had monetization problems, i think deadlock will have dota 2’s high number of active items and constant counter-counter builds while probably being well balanced still will always be present, especially at the pro level. The real question is whether valve can maintain-or even care about-an easier entry point for new players. Based on their track record, that seems unlikely. We might end up seeing riot’s version of this game, which would likely become a more commercially successful version.
Dota 2 has been in the top most played games of steam charts (largest oc market place) for years now. It's not really losing to anything
@@thelaw3536 I did not said anything about losing nor said anything about steam metrics did i ?I just pointed out well known truth and fact that when compared, dota 2 did not reached anything near to leagues player count and popularity which is shame since i think it deserves it more.
@@Azdur Which asides from Valve being so lazy at marketing the game, isn't actually Valve's fault. Riot simply got a huge headstart releasing League of Legends first while also trimming what they deemed unnecessary complexity from wc3 dota mod. Even Riot coining the "Moba" term is genius marketing and made it look like they invented the genre when in reality it goes all the way back from wc3 Dota.
@@Azdur Are you gaslighting? Saying a game is less successful is saying it's doing worse. You're post is in regard to how that will affect this game's performance metric wise.
I think they already doing a good job of simplifying most of dota knowlege check while keeping it deep, for new player i think Most will start pick up alot of things after around 3/4 games and this game match also paced wayyyyyy better organicaly than dota2.
I get your criticism at the end, but I think the more you'll play the game the better you will understand that. While sometimes it can be like that when you just cancel each other out, the trick is to get that item before the other player, than it becomes more about maximizing the early game to get those resources. Also consider that this game should be played in organized teams and not with randoms, you can get a combination of items together which adds more strategy than just considering your oponent's build. At a certain level of play the game becomes about timings, not about reaching the better or more countering build eventually. You and your enemy will not get all those items at the same time, so it becomes about pressing the adventage before they reach their timing, or avoiding a fight and trying to stall when you are behind in timing, than once you get the counter you have a few minutes when the playing field is leveled. But your enemy is closer to their next item than you are, so their plan might be to avoid you for the time being since you are more equal but soon they will be stronger, so they might as well wait, you might choose to use this time to take as many objectives as possible while they avoid you. In addition your enemy might decide to not spend their Souls/Gold/whatever until they see your next item, you might think you got ahead but you actually didn't they just waited to see what will you buy so they buy the best possible answer to that etc.
The point is you shouldn't think about the late game as the point you and your enemy fight with your "true forms" to determin the winner, but you should view the entire game as an ongoing war, with fights, intel gathering and an arms race all happening simoultaniously, similarly to a real war, that is the best way imo to makes sense of it and to reach the next level, and also to not get too frustrated with losing something in the moment, it's a big picture kind of game.
This is the first game in a long time where its just so fun I don't care how the games go, win or lose the games are fun. For a game in closed alpha, it has to be one of the best games ever. Its the first moba I've enjoyed because it takes way more mechanical skill and its really easy to get into
Idk I don't like how slow it is, no clue whats going on most of the time and thats coming from an overwatch player lol.
I never played MOBAs or hero shooters and this depth sounds insane (the closest thing to this game I played would probably be Guild Wars 1 and that is not even close to being this complex)
Multiplayer games require innovation. You can copy someone's project and call it a day (Concord as a recent example)
I'm really looking forward to the Beta release of this.
yea i was so addicted it ruined my life. i lost my job and my family worst of all their respect. Deadlock is truly a harrowing addiction