communication and chemistry was key and the farther you make it the better they get. OG at that time was confident but the play style was very one dimensional and depended on the players to excel. even topson said he was not comfortable playing with other carries (midone & sumail) only liked playing with ana
theres a little point here : "magnus shard" / that remnant is not reliable untill mag has shard , horn toss has higher range of remnant pull so he can easily dodge it and pull him under t4
I think why the play did work was cause Collapse is a mad man with balls of steel. Cause look from sumail perspective. Though topson wasnt near him, the dire don't know that cause they have no vision in thier jungle and Tiny wasn't that near the base tower (or so he thought). Maybe he though a magnus with no bkb, buyback and vision wouldn't be foolish enough to make that play with such a high risk high reward play. But it did happen and then the rest is history.
The pain point is that he was fine with any other play that they could have done. But Magnus blink and pulling him inside is the only play that would have made him lose.
this happened in finals, when team spirit was pushing, their counter for magnus was bane i think, but collapse sniffed it out and instead of skewering the carry, he jumped on the bane and skewered him instead, still, lots of chokes in this game, unfortunate stuff.
IT was their time to shine and win. Like it was OG's time to win TI8. Stuff that shouldn't work, worked for them. All they needed to do was to ban out this one Magnus and be done with it but teams choose to go up against it instead. Especially LGD at the final. They didn't even ban him once in the 5 Grand Final games.
No. In game 3 of the grand finals, LGD picked Rubick to counter Magnus and Collapse couldn't do ANYTHING the entire game. XinQ destroyed him every single fight, either lifting him immediately when he tried to skewer or stealing RP. Watch True Sight and you'll how useless Collapse felt that game, he even tipped XinQ at the end.
based on this analysis, that play shouldnt work, its a combination of both sumail and topson lack of communications. sumail just walk in, knowing topson who has eul not in position. and maybe topson should've understand what he was doing and quickly run into position. but no, none of them do that, so yea, lack of communication and team spirit caught them off guard. after that? there's still hope, if sumail can buy enough time for his team to scramble in and help him. but he's doing panic bkb. he activated it a split second before he died, that's choke.
I think the easier play would be asking clockwerk to hookshot magnus into battery assault or simply push nag away with cog if he jumps on tiny. Euls range is too near for voidspirit to get rp-ed or chrono together with tiny. Sumail did choke on the bkb tho.
you are wrong. hookshot has too much of a delay (cast point + projectile) to react to magnus in this regard, and it is a skillshot. void spirit jump has cast point, but it is instant travel time, euls is also instant. void spirit can do this much easier, ceb is correct. not to mention magnus in sitting in the middle of creep wave.
i saw that, ceb tried hard not to flame hahaha... but its true that topson n sumail not in a same page... just simple play and they cant do it, meaning the chemistry wasnt there, its hard to see this game, not beacuse spirit is really good at least at this time people will believe OG was gonna 2 0 spirit, but the guts that collapse had so big man completely tearing OG condifence with his simple but big magnus play... to help his team n after that og seem lost right away after 1 missplay... the duo chemistry between topson n sumail is Hard to see, its really different when he play with ana n i can see why... something off during ti 10 situation....
I really don’t think it’s as simple as he’s making it out. Because essentially with the line team spirit have anyone that shows will die. So this is why topson is hesitant. They have 3 ults that could lead to topsons death, I think not enough respect is being given to team spirits line up here. Even if the Magnus was euls the fight is still not won. Void simply jumps and chronos the tiny down after. The Magnus then survives with a simple force staff. If the OG team jump after chrono, the wyvern is always in great positioning to push any 2-3 heroes that go on the Magnus or void that are now in the middle of the fight with tiny. I really don’t think it’s a euls win team fight thing at all. And frankly I see it being very difficult for OG in the situation. After this fight plays out the way I say it would, there is a reset. Magnus will simply farm out a linkens/bkb/lotus and all that cancelling is nullified. The point was the stun on torn toss was broken and the way Collapse played it and the rest of team spirit played around was amazing to watch. There was full faith in the Magnus to initiate. And if that didn’t happen. The unsung hero of miposhka was getting off insane wyvern ultis.. and then if both those were effective you’ve got Yataro cleaning up with rampages on morph or locking down ppl in team fight with chrono. They were out drafted for me, the line up of OG was always going to be ahead early with the power of NP etc but with the major ultis of team spirit, walking high ground was always going to be a huuuuuge problem because of how OG drafted and for me I’m not buying into this euls nonsense for a second. Outdrafted and outplayed and I love the OG team and Ceb in particular
Of course we see he has the aegis. But if you theory craft it you can see the aegis won’t make much difference. How in your mind does the aegis change anything in the outcome of the push? Because for me when I run the numbers in my mind there is no way the Tiny does not die twice here regardless of a euls on the first horn toss attempt? Let’s play it out? Horn toss into euls. Tiny is stunned almost same duration as Magnus euls. Magnus will now force staff himself away. Tiny will continue to hit tower, he may take tower. Blink back up for Magnus. Magnus blink skewers back tiny to base. And the same occurance plays out as you see in video.. or if tiny is fast bkb is used. Tiny continues to hit barracks. Maybe takes barracks. By time tiny bkb is almost up. Magnus will now force staff into horntoss into skewer again af the same same outcome of double deaths applies again. Iffffff they team initiate on the Magnus at any time of these engagements you will see a chrono! Or you will see a wyvern ulti! There is no way for the outcome to be different than this I’m sorry. Euls does not stop the same outcome here. Collapse would have to make massive mistakes in his moves for the outcome to be diffeeent and because collapse plays at such a high level the chances of him messing up his moves here is less than one percent. Run the lines, the outcome here is always always the same. It’s down to draft all day but I’m open to here what you come up with
@@hook8535 ya good point tho.. They just need more to respect that toss.. Plus everyone stubborn about This tiny pick at this ti.. Only later to regret for why they dont ban Magnus the most op hero to counter tiny that peole most picking in to... Its har to get proper judge to this new toss shard from Magnus.... Basically win this ti with magnus. Haha
Well you cant precast euls on magnus, when he jumps from the fog of high ground, probably one of the reasons he did it. Also If void spirit stands to close to tiny, you are at risk of your two cores being chronod or RP'd together, and for horntoss got a bit of a range of the ability, and euls doesnt have that big of a range. So how close you need to stand to tiny? And if they stand close, TeamSpirit could chrono both kill void spirit first, and then rp tiny after chorno and drag him back to T4s. So its just in a different order of spells, but the same result. Not saying it was impossible to win this fight for OG, but putting it, like "just euls him lol, so ez, he is so stupid" - is just lol, and classic ceb. Its not that easy at all. That's what so many teams were thinking at that Ti. "This magnus shouldnt work, its easy to counter, you just eul or instant stun him when he jumps in, these teams that lost to it were noob, but we are better, we know how to counter it. Dont ban magnus". And guess what? collapse outplayed all of them over and over again, like he didnt know they want to eul him lol. I remeber other teams also tried euls. and it didnt work, collapse playing around it. And after they lose, they say "this magnus just got lucky, it shouldnt work, ez to counter". xD The facts is he just knows how to outplay the opponents, and which plays got more propability of working, what is expected unexpected and so on. All other magnuses sucked at that tourney. Its just not easy at all, despite of how it seems. Look Zai magnus and how it was played on that tourney.
Also i was thinkig if magnus got euld by void here, faceless void would chorno on top of both of them, so magnus would probably still survive and forcestaff or rp after, plus you got all, the lion stuns out of the chorno etc. Who knows how the fight would go. Ceb putting it like if you eul him its 100% gg. strange
If he manages to eul the potential burst dmg would have been huge for mangus and they were expecting the chrono thats were the aegis comes into play, the fact that topson void could silence him, but as you said there were so many ways that the fight could go.
Conversely, in the EU west qualifiers I saw pure BKB when I thought he’s dead just save bkb for 2nd life on sf…and he kills 2 before dying and they win and go to TI.
I’ve thought about this too, they had a really good chance of winning both games and if they beat spirit could’ve actually won ti for 3rd time in a row
And all the things he said they went highground in spirit's bottom lane 2nd time without any smoke, under an sentry with sumails silveredge...most probably captains decision ..they think rest of the teams are fools..you will see same thing with Kuro,doesnt ward properly when enemy comes to t3 he doesnt even sentry his own area to see if there is a enemy obs or not inside his own base ,which i think in todays pro dota is a must..and ceb was the worst performer in his team in ti..you can see his performance against secret
I would like to say my opnion to you. I'm a successfull pokerplayer and I also really enjoy watching e-sports. What i think people in this team games understimate is improving comunication and guidance with everyone in your team, especially in high level play. In poker , eventhough i might get unlucky i'm the only responsible for my decisions. In a team game like dota2 you pay the price if someone in your team makes a mistake. Also developing core principles is fundamental to make sure the team can go throught ups ans downs, because sometimes we as players go deep into the jungle and things might get dire, and we tend to, in this situations, doubt ourselvs and what we are used to do that brought us so far in doing what we are professionals. Having this principles clear and written down in our minds will makes us remember that we just have to keep doing what we learned ans not deviate from that , unless proven necessary. I hope u could understand me. To further explanations on this topic i recomend you reading , Principles, from Ray Dalio.
Ceb really wants to blame Sumail but of course he doesn't want to be unprofessional and disrespectful. You can see Sumail's impatience in this game with 2 separate plays him pushing highground. I'm no dota professional but when you're a spectator you see these mistakes.
I don't think it's Sumail'a fault. It's Topsons. Sumail just cleared a massive creep wave. Late game you play around carry. Topson should be paying attention. Especially with VS, a very mobile hero.
I can really blame sumail here on this play. I agree on Ceb's comment about the BKB pop on dying tiny with aegis. If he didn't pop that bkb while dying with aegis they could have win that clash as tiny has a massive damage and has a satanic. Even if he will be chronoed by Yatoro he will still survive. Why? Because he is magic immune all of the supports out there will just normal hit a 4k hp tiny with a lot of armor. Cmon guys, you can blame Topson on this but I blame Sumail more.
Creeps are pushing and topson was too far, it's really his fault there, sumail and topson duo does not really worked in ti10, that's why og remade their team from scratch.
As ceb said it was a miscommunication from both of them. Sumail didn't articulate he is going to show wave and push and for Topson to be ready, while Topson at the same time wasn't looking his direction anticipating the mag jump. The true choke of the entire situation was the first life bkb waste by sumail. If he simply bkbs after aegis pops, he easily gets away, and OG is still up a ton and can regroup to push for the win later.
No one makes magnus looks OP except collapse! I remember one time during 1st day of the international people are saying that most OP combo are Lycan and Tiny because of how LGD play them together. That's why you can't say that they just won because of the magnus abuse, zai try the magnus combo but it didn't work. Faith bian too but he can't do it like how collapse did
Its just like when bulldog dominating game with rat dotos. Noone see the way of bulldog see it at ti3. Man giving free nature prophet > underfarmed > proceed to rat > fat rat > win
@@tehpanasmanis5662 Bulldog was known before that as best LD in the world. Fast radiance on the bear which nobody could do back then like him. Bear was in ban all the time vs Alliance as far as I remember - that’s why he had to learn another rat hero which was NP and now people only remember him for those NP plays… however I still remember xiao8 and BurNing saying in 2013 - “if you want to learn how to play LD just watch Bulldog play style”. And nobody could still pull it off all the way till the hero was changed/nerfed and went out of meta. He was one of a kind LD player in that old meta. Everybody was afraid of his Lone Druid, even top Chinese teams. It was a respect ban vs Alliance
Agree. I mean i can feel the hate. I remember him streaming with gorgc and says "sumail should never play carry" i dont know if you can still find the clip or vods but he said it. I can feel the hate 😆
I actually feel like Sumail kinda threw here. There's no excuse for his play, he's a TI winner and should have better communicated and not overreact and use BKB. 2 bad plays in a row costed them the game.
I hate when people say SUMAIL was a good carry, like stop being delusional. It's same thing with Midone, it just didn't work out and it never will. The % of players that can swap between mid>carry>carry>mid is 1%.
No, its not really luck, it was collapse intuition to jump on sumail like that, it could have been different, that is what makes them pro players. The skills + intuition to pull off that play, imagine he didnt jump when he did, the game could have been so different there..
@@ceraflava9873 well. OG lost to team secret earlier. and PSG LGD looked a lot stronger than OG. so do think team spirit was the only team could defeat PSG that year.
@@yushaos you cant use that metric here. "This team lost to that team in UB..." Thats nonsense. OG has won many times from LB. TSM bodied them 2-0 in UB. OG won them 3-1 from LB in gf. Team spirit themselves won ti from LB
in shorts words...sumails aggression did not suit the "team work" strategy in OG.... thats why now the new OG is winning even with stand in...because the concept is clear...."Win together-lose together"...AKA..."team work"
I feel like that too, even seen so many games when Yuragi that is pos 1 in theory its not really pos 1 , its like they have 3 cores and play with the one that has a bigger advantage in draft and in gold/xp along the game, every time they double down on who has the biggest advantage and try to buff that. That shows a great team concept that is not common to many teams.
Ceb is not streaming si often, i think its just for the charity event right now, i’m not sure. But they all like to play and ppl enjoy so see them and that benefits both sides.
@@dota2rampagemonster oh i see... And I'm not hating on any of them streaming. It's more content for us. But I just find it funny how they start streaming after retirement..
People still like to play even after they retire and if they can make a living from this, why not ? :d they enjoy whay they do and make some $$ out of it.
It's actually a natural progression. You turn to streaming when you are 1. Famous, or 2. Very good in a game. When a pro player retires, they are basically both. So they can keep doing what they love, minus the stress, and earn a living
I do not think he under estimates it , actually the strategy is to counter that magnus with the eul, it would have worked out if they were ready in position.
@@dota2rampagemonster the chemistry feels off man, even now u see sumail with so many different teams for the last 2 season, im not flaming him, but the stat n situation was there not Lie about him, but people just still believe in sumail n i dont know why...
Yes, he is doing really good mid but as a carry he would play like a mid :)) and that is not really the best thing to do at this level. I like his plays, the style and he is one of top players buy everyone can do mistakes
Ceb's explanation is not 100% correct, Spirit only engaged when Chronosphere is about to come up. Even if Collapse got Euls, they will die in the chrono.
so Ceb speaks about eul but he also could vacuum collapse, what's wrong with that? so he lacks of reaction, but blames Sumail who carried them through whole TI. I'm not saying that Sumail played good in this moment, but why Ceb doesn't say about himself? buy your own eul and do what you want dude
@@dota2rampagemonster i can still remember while Ceb was on Gorgc stream, he says (Not word per word but it goes like this) Gorp and Ceb talking about sumail Ceb: i think sumail should never play carry Gorp: what do you mean? Ceb: his decision making is urgh Gorp: yeah yeah he can play mid hes a good mid player Ceb: yeah he was, he was a phenomenal mid player. But he should never play carry again ☠️☠️ In that conversation i can feel Ceb being angry or salty about Sumail throwing the game. By the way if you really want to find that vod or clip maybe you can watch it in gorps vods or his reddit. Idk.
Its hard in the pro scene to pop that bkb like that, dont you agree ? :d and i also think sumail as a carry is not handling like he a mid! Don’t get me wrong sumail mid at eg was a God!
Ceb is clueless clown. there is 0 chance he can eul amgnus. Eul have 550 range wich is too litle. also magnus jump from no vision 1200 range. if u want to pre cast eul u need ward on hg and they dont have them. Ceb is on COPIUM If they want to catch magnus they need to pick rubick who have 1 billion range instant spell cast. But inven that will be countered with mag bkb.
Lmao everyone knew a team made would fluke would lose to ts og is the noobest team who somehow fluked two ti n didn’t win a single game for. 3years ofc u would lose cebobo
communication and chemistry was key and the farther you make it the better they get. OG at that time was confident but the play style was very one dimensional and depended on the players to excel. even topson said he was not comfortable playing with other carries (midone & sumail) only liked playing with ana
They also had the safest siege method, void spirit can put a remnant on top of tiny making it impossible for magnus to blink on top of him 😅
They can blink in the direction that the remanant is not facing
@@MrAshar101 and he womt have tha angle to scewer to base
theres a little point here : "magnus shard" / that remnant is not reliable untill mag has shard , horn toss has higher range of remnant pull so he can easily dodge it and pull him under t4
@@demolisher-2655 try it in demo, it makes it so inconvinient and theres still the euls as mentioned by ceb
this is a plus
Think that it was misplsy from both Topdon and Sumail and the lack communication was the key to their failure on the tournament as a whole.
Yeah but we must not deny the credit of Collapse cause that was 100% insane play :))
@@dota2rampagemonster its a low risk high reward play
If you mean low risk because they were already losing that i agree to.
No shit thats what Ceb explained in the video lmao nice unnecessarily summarizing it Sherlock
yeah congrats, u repeated what ceb said ^^
I think why the play did work was cause Collapse is a mad man with balls of steel. Cause look from sumail perspective. Though topson wasnt near him, the dire don't know that cause they have no vision in thier jungle and Tiny wasn't that near the base tower (or so he thought). Maybe he though a magnus with no bkb, buyback and vision wouldn't be foolish enough to make that play with such a high risk high reward play. But it did happen and then the rest is history.
That seems pretty valid, they were already loosing so only a risky play like the one he made could have saved the game and it did!
The pain point is that he was fine with any other play that they could have done. But Magnus blink and pulling him inside is the only play that would have made him lose.
this happened in finals, when team spirit was pushing, their counter for magnus was bane i think, but collapse sniffed it out and instead of skewering the carry, he jumped on the bane and skewered him instead, still, lots of chokes in this game, unfortunate stuff.
IT was their time to shine and win. Like it was OG's time to win TI8. Stuff that shouldn't work, worked for them. All they needed to do was to ban out this one Magnus and be done with it but teams choose to go up against it instead. Especially LGD at the final. They didn't even ban him once in the 5 Grand Final games.
No. In game 3 of the grand finals, LGD picked Rubick to counter Magnus and Collapse couldn't do ANYTHING the entire game. XinQ destroyed him every single fight, either lifting him immediately when he tried to skewer or stealing RP. Watch True Sight and you'll how useless Collapse felt that game, he even tipped XinQ at the end.
Theres a lot of mistake sumail make when u watch it again and again. He really cant wait for his teammates 😩
based on this analysis, that play shouldnt work, its a combination of both sumail and topson lack of communications.
sumail just walk in, knowing topson who has eul not in position. and maybe topson should've understand what he was doing and quickly run into position. but no, none of them do that, so yea, lack of communication and team spirit caught them off guard.
after that? there's still hope, if sumail can buy enough time for his team to scramble in and help him. but he's doing panic bkb. he activated it a split second before he died, that's choke.
I think the easier play would be asking clockwerk to hookshot magnus into battery assault or simply push nag away with cog if he jumps on tiny.
Euls range is too near for voidspirit to get rp-ed or chrono together with tiny.
Sumail did choke on the bkb tho.
Thats wut i also think! Yea sumail already washed in his early age lol
you are wrong. hookshot has too much of a delay (cast point + projectile) to react to magnus in this regard, and it is a skillshot. void spirit jump has cast point, but it is instant travel time, euls is also instant. void spirit can do this much easier, ceb is correct. not to mention magnus in sitting in the middle of creep wave.
i saw that, ceb tried hard not to flame hahaha... but its true that topson n sumail not in a same page... just simple play and they cant do it, meaning the chemistry wasnt there, its hard to see this game, not beacuse spirit is really good at least at this time people will believe OG was gonna 2 0 spirit, but the guts that collapse had so big man completely tearing OG condifence with his simple but big magnus play... to help his team n after that og seem lost right away after 1 missplay... the duo chemistry between topson n sumail is Hard to see, its really different when he play with ana n i can see why... something off during ti 10 situation....
Indeed collapse doing a lot of crazy unexpected plays that took his team to the next level
I really don’t think it’s as simple as he’s making it out. Because essentially with the line team spirit have anyone that shows will die. So this is why topson is hesitant. They have 3 ults that could lead to topsons death, I think not enough respect is being given to team spirits line up here. Even if the Magnus was euls the fight is still not won. Void simply jumps and chronos the tiny down after. The Magnus then survives with a simple force staff. If the OG team jump after chrono, the wyvern is always in great positioning to push any 2-3 heroes that go on the Magnus or void that are now in the middle of the fight with tiny. I really don’t think it’s a euls win team fight thing at all. And frankly I see it being very difficult for OG in the situation. After this fight plays out the way I say it would, there is a reset. Magnus will simply farm out a linkens/bkb/lotus and all that cancelling is nullified. The point was the stun on torn toss was broken and the way Collapse played it and the rest of team spirit played around was amazing to watch. There was full faith in the Magnus to initiate. And if that didn’t happen. The unsung hero of miposhka was getting off insane wyvern ultis.. and then if both those were effective you’ve got Yataro cleaning up with rampages on morph or locking down ppl in team fight with chrono. They were out drafted for me, the line up of OG was always going to be ahead early with the power of NP etc but with the major ultis of team spirit, walking high ground was always going to be a huuuuuge problem because of how OG drafted and for me I’m not buying into this euls nonsense for a second. Outdrafted and outplayed and I love the OG team and Ceb in particular
@@hook8535 you have a point but you have to take into consideration the fact that he had an aegis also.
Of course we see he has the aegis. But if you theory craft it you can see the aegis won’t make much difference. How in your mind does the aegis change anything in the outcome of the push? Because for me when I run the numbers in my mind there is no way the Tiny does not die twice here regardless of a euls on the first horn toss attempt? Let’s play it out?
Horn toss into euls. Tiny is stunned almost same duration as Magnus euls. Magnus will now force staff himself away. Tiny will continue to hit tower, he may take tower. Blink back up for Magnus. Magnus blink skewers back tiny to base. And the same occurance plays out as you see in video.. or if tiny is fast bkb is used. Tiny continues to hit barracks. Maybe takes barracks. By time tiny bkb is almost up. Magnus will now force staff into horntoss into skewer again af the same same outcome of double deaths applies again. Iffffff they team initiate on the Magnus at any time of these engagements you will see a chrono! Or you will see a wyvern ulti! There is no way for the outcome to be different than this I’m sorry. Euls does not stop the same outcome here. Collapse would have to make massive mistakes in his moves for the outcome to be diffeeent and because collapse plays at such a high level the chances of him messing up his moves here is less than one percent. Run the lines, the outcome here is always always the same. It’s down to draft all day but I’m open to here what you come up with
@@hook8535 ya good point tho.. They just need more to respect that toss.. Plus everyone stubborn about This tiny pick at this ti.. Only later to regret for why they dont ban Magnus the most op hero to counter tiny that peole most picking in to... Its har to get proper judge to this new toss shard from Magnus.... Basically win this ti with magnus. Haha
Well you cant precast euls on magnus, when he jumps from the fog of high ground, probably one of the reasons he did it. Also If void spirit stands to close to tiny, you are at risk of your two cores being chronod or RP'd together, and for horntoss got a bit of a range of the ability, and euls doesnt have that big of a range. So how close you need to stand to tiny? And if they stand close, TeamSpirit could chrono both kill void spirit first, and then rp tiny after chorno and drag him back to T4s. So its just in a different order of spells, but the same result.
Not saying it was impossible to win this fight for OG, but putting it, like "just euls him lol, so ez, he is so stupid" - is just lol, and classic ceb. Its not that easy at all. That's what so many teams were thinking at that Ti. "This magnus shouldnt work, its easy to counter, you just eul or instant stun him when he jumps in, these teams that lost to it were noob, but we are better, we know how to counter it. Dont ban magnus". And guess what? collapse outplayed all of them over and over again, like he didnt know they want to eul him lol. I remeber other teams also tried euls. and it didnt work, collapse playing around it.
And after they lose, they say "this magnus just got lucky, it shouldnt work, ez to counter". xD The facts is he just knows how to outplay the opponents, and which plays got more propability of working, what is expected unexpected and so on. All other magnuses sucked at that tourney. Its just not easy at all, despite of how it seems. Look Zai magnus and how it was played on that tourney.
Also i was thinkig if magnus got euld by void here, faceless void would chorno on top of both of them, so magnus would probably still survive and forcestaff or rp after, plus you got all, the lion stuns out of the chorno etc. Who knows how the fight would go. Ceb putting it like if you eul him its 100% gg. strange
Collapse knew that everything he has to do its to make unexpected plays, he has nothing to lose so its was a matter of survival :))
If he manages to eul the potential burst dmg would have been huge for mangus and they were expecting the chrono thats were the aegis comes into play, the fact that topson void could silence him, but as you said there were so many ways that the fight could go.
:)) sarcasm is also good, the main idea was that anything could happen after the eul
You know topson is quickcast and you can spam select the area near tiny right? It would still insta eul him even if there is no vision.
Conversely, in the EU west qualifiers I saw pure BKB when I thought he’s dead just save bkb for 2nd life on sf…and he kills 2 before dying and they win and go to TI.
It happens. You can press bkb and satanic, heal yourself to full hp, and kill half of enemy team. Or you'll just die in quarter of a second.
0:15 all we gotta do is that snorlax Rubick lift,
make him say, I can't!
yet Saksa got all the blame in the world for OG losing. poor guy
I’ve thought about this too, they had a really good chance of winning both games and if they beat spirit could’ve actually won ti for 3rd time in a row
I really seen that eul work for psg.lgd in the finals, they also had rubick but that is next level :))
@@dota2rampagemonster XinQ god, mag even have linken but it just got removed and then he got lifted..
LGD will destroy them. so not a 3rd time
lgd was on their peak, even im OG fan deep down i was feared of psg, but u know shit happend :)) fookin magnus even on the finals
@@dota2rampagemonster It was bad itemization on Collapse he didn't buy a BKB unlike in game 5 and wasted his gold on mekansm
And all the things he said they went highground in spirit's bottom lane 2nd time without any smoke, under an sentry with sumails silveredge...most probably captains decision ..they think rest of the teams are fools..you will see same thing with Kuro,doesnt ward properly when enemy comes to t3 he doesnt even sentry his own area to see if there is a enemy obs or not inside his own base ,which i think in todays pro dota is a must..and ceb was the worst performer in his team in ti..you can see his performance against secret
I would like to say my opnion to you. I'm a successfull pokerplayer and I also really enjoy watching e-sports. What i think people in this team games understimate is improving comunication and guidance with everyone in your team, especially in high level play. In poker , eventhough i might get unlucky i'm the only responsible for my decisions. In a team game like dota2 you pay the price if someone in your team makes a mistake.
Also developing core principles is fundamental to make sure the team can go throught ups ans downs, because sometimes we as players go deep into the jungle and things might get dire, and we tend to, in this situations, doubt ourselvs and what we are used to do that brought us so far in doing what we are professionals. Having this principles clear and written down in our minds will makes us remember that we just have to keep doing what we learned ans not deviate from that , unless proven necessary. I hope u could understand me. To further explanations on this topic i recomend you reading , Principles, from Ray Dalio.
Ceb really wants to blame Sumail but of course he doesn't want to be unprofessional and disrespectful. You can see Sumail's impatience in this game with 2 separate plays him pushing highground. I'm no dota professional but when you're a spectator you see these mistakes.
I don't think it's Sumail'a fault. It's Topsons. Sumail just cleared a massive creep wave.
Late game you play around carry. Topson should be paying attention. Especially with VS, a very mobile hero.
I can really blame sumail here on this play. I agree on Ceb's comment about the BKB pop on dying tiny with aegis. If he didn't pop that bkb while dying with aegis they could have win that clash as tiny has a massive damage and has a satanic. Even if he will be chronoed by Yatoro he will still survive. Why? Because he is magic immune all of the supports out there will just normal hit a 4k hp tiny with a lot of armor. Cmon guys, you can blame Topson on this but I blame Sumail more.
Why ceb background is noisy. Where is he btw?
I’m not sure, i think it was an event where a lot of streamers made challenges to get donations for an ong.
ZEvent 2022, a charity stream featuring French streamers
Thank you sharing the info!
sumail's nature doesn't let other cooperate with him
I remember watch that game, it OG winning game but like Ceb said in this video, they not in the same page team
Fight lose because seb not use vacuum
The good think about sucking at Dota is that I forget every game I've played xd ceb clearly relives his old games
Creeps are pushing and topson was too far, it's really his fault there, sumail and topson duo does not really worked in ti10, that's why og remade their team from scratch.
Indeed the syncronization of topson of sumail was off , but 1-2 more seconds from either of them would have made it a different game.
As ceb said it was a miscommunication from both of them. Sumail didn't articulate he is going to show wave and push and for Topson to be ready, while Topson at the same time wasn't looking his direction anticipating the mag jump. The true choke of the entire situation was the first life bkb waste by sumail. If he simply bkbs after aegis pops, he easily gets away, and OG is still up a ton and can regroup to push for the win later.
That's the only play, and it's a very hard play to pull off
Yes but i think thats the beauty of pro scene, pulling of this kind of plays
If you are in range and they don’t disable you its easy :d
clock has hookshot too
Ceb is a dota genius
No doubts
No one makes magnus looks OP except collapse! I remember one time during 1st day of the international people are saying that most OP combo are Lycan and Tiny because of how LGD play them together. That's why you can't say that they just won because of the magnus abuse, zai try the magnus combo but it didn't work. Faith bian too but he can't do it like how collapse did
Collapse its a one of a kind magnus player indeed!
Its just like when bulldog dominating game with rat dotos. Noone see the way of bulldog see it at ti3. Man giving free nature prophet > underfarmed > proceed to rat > fat rat > win
@@tehpanasmanis5662 ana io also broke the game b4
@@tehpanasmanis5662 Bulldog was known before that as best LD in the world. Fast radiance on the bear which nobody could do back then like him. Bear was in ban all the time vs Alliance as far as I remember - that’s why he had to learn another rat hero which was NP and now people only remember him for those NP plays… however I still remember xiao8 and BurNing saying in 2013 - “if you want to learn how to play LD just watch Bulldog play style”. And nobody could still pull it off all the way till the hero was changed/nerfed and went out of meta. He was one of a kind LD player in that old meta. Everybody was afraid of his Lone Druid, even top Chinese teams. It was a respect ban vs Alliance
Really interesting, i like your clips. Topson should just be behind the tiny.
so even picking broken tiny doesnt help you if you cant communicate to stay with eul behind the core
that didnt happen because of the pressure of void chrono and lion when void wants to eul the magnus. Tahts why void is at the back too.
i dont think bkb after aegis would have made much of a difference because void has chrono
I still hate being near opponent base when they have magnus and tusk ags. It just makes game very different.
Magnus feels scary everywhere on the map for me :))
Did i lose to the enemy or did i lose to myself ? Tuff question
the choke play...
all that confidence and ego from a young age fame.
2:48 pain XD
Ceb explains how sumail threw the game 🤣
Agree.
I mean i can feel the hate.
I remember him streaming with gorgc and says "sumail should never play carry" i dont know if you can still find the clip or vods but he said it.
I can feel the hate 😆
ceb should have gone agha this game because TS damage is all about about bursting 1 hero giving extra hp to sumail might save him to click satanic
I actually feel like Sumail kinda threw here. There's no excuse for his play, he's a TI winner and should have better communicated and not overreact and use BKB. 2 bad plays in a row costed them the game.
This wouldnt have happened if they still have ana and jerax
I hate when people say SUMAIL was a good carry, like stop being delusional. It's same thing with Midone, it just didn't work out and it never will. The % of players that can swap between mid>carry>carry>mid is 1%.
Dendi said the same thing the other day
Yes i have a video with dendi also and another one with the bkb and rubick also coming soon :d
vacuum doesnt work or wht
so, if this is true, then team spirit got lucky with the million dollars? lmao
No, its not really luck, it was collapse intuition to jump on sumail like that, it could have been different, that is what makes them pro players. The skills + intuition to pull off that play, imagine he didnt jump when he did, the game could have been so different there..
I remember gorgc said that OG could win their third Aegis at the time. They above any other team, but there is Team Spirit who stop then
Every game is different and i consider almost all the teams good. They all have a chance to win!
@@ceraflava9873 well. OG lost to team secret earlier. and PSG LGD looked a lot stronger than OG. so do think team spirit was the only team could defeat PSG that year.
@@yushaos you cant use that metric here. "This team lost to that team in UB..." Thats nonsense. OG has won many times from LB. TSM bodied them 2-0 in UB. OG won them 3-1 from LB in gf. Team spirit themselves won ti from LB
in shorts words...sumails aggression did not suit the "team work" strategy in OG.... thats why now the new OG is winning even with stand in...because the concept is clear...."Win together-lose together"...AKA..."team work"
I feel like that too, even seen so many games when Yuragi that is pos 1 in theory its not really pos 1 , its like they have 3 cores and play with the one that has a bigger advantage in draft and in gold/xp along the game, every time they double down on who has the biggest advantage and try to buff that. That shows a great team concept that is not common to many teams.
Sumail and topson lack the preparation for the crazy play collapse made, it was really a game of chess and TS choosing to take a risk and it prevails
Really crazy play, but as i stated earlier, they had nothing to lose anymore.
even if euls was there it wouldnt guarantee a win, its just easier, too much theorycrafting here, all depend on the player's form at that time
Am i the only one concerned about that certain someone screaming on the background 😳
Yes :)) it was a charity event stream!
Sumail bro, in herald we bkb after aegis.
Heralds don’t know they have to press the bkb because they are heralds :))
@@stefanramonmoise3908 :)))
322
also he could vacuum
What's with the old players going back to stream after retirement? Lol.. Bulldog, Fear, Febby, Topson, qojva and now Ceb??
Ceb is not streaming si often, i think its just for the charity event right now, i’m not sure. But they all like to play and ppl enjoy so see them and that benefits both sides.
@@dota2rampagemonster oh i see... And I'm not hating on any of them streaming. It's more content for us. But I just find it funny how they start streaming after retirement..
People still like to play even after they retire and if they can make a living from this, why not ? :d they enjoy whay they do and make some $$ out of it.
And its hard for the active players that focus on the game and competition to come with content so its up to the retired ones do that
It's actually a natural progression. You turn to streaming when you are 1. Famous, or 2. Very good in a game. When a pro player retires, they are basically both. So they can keep doing what they love, minus the stress, and earn a living
hes under estimating magnus hard core maybe that's why they didn't ban it and lost
I do not think he under estimates it , actually the strategy is to counter that magnus with the eul, it would have worked out if they were ready in position.
@@dota2rampagemonster the chemistry feels off man, even now u see sumail with so many different teams for the last 2 season, im not flaming him, but the stat n situation was there not Lie about him, but people just still believe in sumail n i dont know why...
Yes, even Ceb said that the team was not on the same page :(
@@joefamiredo Sumail has some questionable decisions late game for sure. He's usually insane early mid tho
Yes, he is doing really good mid but as a carry he would play like a mid :)) and that is not really the best thing to do at this level. I like his plays, the style and he is one of top players buy everyone can do mistakes
Ceb's explanation is not 100% correct, Spirit only engaged when Chronosphere is about to come up. Even if Collapse got Euls, they will die in the chrono.
so Ceb speaks about eul but he also could vacuum collapse, what's wrong with that? so he lacks of reaction, but blames Sumail who carried them through whole TI. I'm not saying that Sumail played good in this moment, but why Ceb doesn't say about himself? buy your own eul and do what you want dude
Nah sumail cant connect with other teammates.
that was panic BKB from sumail
Popping bkb just about to die with aegis. what a choke and throw. With recent performances, Sumail ain't getting a stint with a tier 1 team anymore.
Sumail was good 10 years ago lol
Hey Ceb, have you read the scenario, lol?
Anyone could bought euls that game, even you ceb, thats the whole team fault. Poorly itemization.
thats a good point, the whole team was underestimating the skewer
Actually blaming topson or sumail HAHAHAHA
Actually he blames more the communication of those 2 and a little bit on the bkb choke :))
@@dota2rampagemonster i can still remember while Ceb was on Gorgc stream, he says
(Not word per word but it goes like this)
Gorp and Ceb talking about sumail
Ceb: i think sumail should never play carry
Gorp: what do you mean?
Ceb: his decision making is urgh
Gorp: yeah yeah he can play mid hes a good mid player
Ceb: yeah he was, he was a phenomenal mid player. But he should never play carry again
☠️☠️
In that conversation i can feel Ceb being angry or salty about Sumail throwing the game.
By the way if you really want to find that vod or clip maybe you can watch it in gorps vods or his reddit. Idk.
Its hard in the pro scene to pop that bkb like that, dont you agree ? :d and i also think sumail as a carry is not handling like he a mid! Don’t get me wrong sumail mid at eg was a God!
Sumail LOL
Herald plays from TI playing team
ban magnus dog
OG just dogshit
SUFAIL
Tiny pickers lost lol
sumail's fault
How about just ban Magnus, so many excuses.
Sufail
Ceb is clueless clown. there is 0 chance he can eul amgnus. Eul have 550 range wich is too litle. also magnus jump from no vision 1200 range. if u want to pre cast eul u need ward on hg and they dont have them. Ceb is on COPIUM
If they want to catch magnus they need to pick rubick who have 1 billion range instant spell cast. But inven that will be countered with mag bkb.
Lmao everyone knew a team made would fluke would lose to ts og is the noobest team who somehow fluked two ti n didn’t win a single game for. 3years ofc u would lose cebobo
Fluking two ti is the biggest copium I've ever seen.
Salty lol
this is just stupid of Ceb to do an analysis like this. why dont he analyse how bad his drafts were