I’m Cherokee (Oklahoma, family in Coweta and Tahlequah) and in the process of learning more about my ancestors’ homelands and their ancestral villages. Videos like this aren’t the only resource I have, obviously, but knowing that research like this is even *happening* means a lot to me. Thank you for the overview!! My family neither eats frogs (crayfish yes! frogs no) nor has any family stories about frogs, so I can’t offer any help there, but I’m now fascinated. I’ll have to read the research paper myself!!
@@kariannecrysler640 That sounds like a good strategy for learning, and not just in this case, as you say. I rewound the video a couple of times to make sure I got important points. And, likewise, I'm likely to do similar even when funny frogs are not waving at me. 😁
Did I hear the voice of Nick Offerman reading the archeological findings at 8:46 ?? Sure sounded like him! Love all your videos. I also love learning and considering the successful ways in which people lived that might be drastically different than the ways we live today. Thanks man
As a total amateur and poorly educated person with an interest in archaeology, I immediately jumped to conclusions before the video was even 5 minutes in. This is the process most people go through. I, on the other hand, quickly realized that I am an idiot and don’t have the education or experience to come to any reasonable conclusions. Really good video, Nathan. Love your videos.
I’m so happy I found your channel, this is a fantastic breakdown, and I can’t wait to watch more of your stuff! Thanks for making this sort of fascinating content.
The hallucinogenic aspect interests me because my cousin Dr. Paul Pascarosa went to live with a tribe near the Mexican border for a year. The tribe used peyote extensively. They used it as a medicine and for every aspect of life. These people seemed healthy and robust with very little symptoms of illness. Ofcourse, my cousin had to live as they did for one year following a grant. He later wrote an article in the American Medical Journal regarding his journey and the effects of peyote on the human mind and body. It was very well received. Circa 1970's.
Regardless of topic, what I love about these presentations is the insight into how professional archeology is done, and the interpretation of results. As opposed to the, "...there's a hill that's kind of pointy so it's got to be an Egyptian pyramid."
My grandmother, who was half Native American kept toads and black snakes on her back porch. One to control flies, and the other to control rodents. Toads in food storage pits could have been to keep maggots from infesting meat.
In about a year, an ANCIENT ALEINS' episode will air in which Giorgio Tsoukalos and David Childress will reveal that "recent archeological work" indicates that Native Americans may have been providing meals to space aliens that eat frog brains. I think about all of he amazing things that weren't known when I went to college.
When I was a kid in south east ga, if a rainstorm came up, the road would be covered in 1000s of frogs. Was a squealie, squirty short trip. Large frogs, as food would usually be killed by smashing or decapitation. As most small animals.
This is a lot of fun, like a real wudonit, with theories and suspects and the final discovery. Thank you, you are a great story teller. I appreciate your scientific integrity and the passion you bring to your work. If anybody ever asked you 'who cares about Indian frogs', tell them there are lots and lots of us.
Either food source, or hallucinogenic source, the toads specifically the Colorado river toad, as it is identified, was very important to people in what is currently North America in the past, as evidenced by its dipiction and remains of harvest documented in North America from the Colorado river south to Mexico and east to Cherokee land
An excellent review of an archeology article that gives more information about some of what wildlife was used within the civilization(s) from pre-Columbus sites. This thinking has also put another stone in some of the missing knowledge of the various Native American cultures. thank Nathanael
with most fish and birds the preservation and identification biases are pretty different, but more importantly, when you get 500 turkey bones on a site there's no question that they were put there by people. it's more obvious for fish. so there's no impetus for the same kind of experiment on those kinds of taxa. I will say that in my own analyses, the fish heads were pretty well represented compared to the vertebrae, but the turkey skull fragments were very rare. they're also SUPER thin by comparison to their limbs and so on.
Reminds me of Nepal where frogs/toads still play a role in rituals and are eaten too. A kirati shaman told me that they are part of the spiritual naga group. Specific frogs and toads can be caught, dried and stored for later ritualistic use.
Given the fact of so many missing head parts which you explained quite well. A few questions. Why a pit to store or dispose de headed toads only? Seems to me they would use pits to raise as other creatures as well for the future and as renewable food source, possible self renewing in the case of either frogs or toads. Somewhere I heard they would flip turtles onto their backs to immobilize them for months sounds kind of crazy a stone lined pit with cover heavy stones would work better. And then there are catfish or smaller bullheads a pit perhaps a few feet deep with wet mud and little water they keep alive long time even over winter. If for waste disposal seems all sorts of creatures present in a pit . I have a bit of life experience on these edible delicacies. We would catch so many bullheads we kept them alive for days in an old bathtub outside in the shade before cleaning them. Snapping turtles which for some home owners of small ponds hate them. We catch and keep alive in a large galvanized feed buckets covered with a heavy storm drain grates and some concrete blocks, as they are super strong. We keep them this way feeding them cracked corn to cleanse out their system. Frogs I have speared since childhood. We would pull the skin off the lower part to expose the meat a clip at the leg joint and clip off the feet the rest is thrown away. I forgot a favorite eels lol. Great learning on your channel... Peace.
Before they were considered endangered, when I was a child, I ordered sautéed frogs' legs whenever my parents took us out to dinner at a restaurant that had French dishes on the menu -- a very rare treat. They were delicious, tasting like exceptionally moist white meat from chickens, swimming in garlic butter. I have to wonder if the Cherokee ate some of the toads's innards, as well i always felt bad about how much of these presumably farm-raised frogs went to waste. I don't think I would have enjoyed frog liver or heart, but you never know. Maybe they were as delicately flavored as the leg meat.
Interesting. I once saw a video showing a Vietnamese woman roasting a frog that she had caught. She relished its taste so much, that after she concluded her meal, she proceeded to lick her fingers. As Colonel Sanders would say: "That's finger-licking good!" Jokes aside, I stumbled across your channel, and since I am part Cherokee, I wanted to hear what this was all about. Your analysis is most-likely correct. By the way, archaeology is a fascinating endeavor!
Hugely appreciate not only this incredible analysis, but the mean frog meme game you've got with it. 10/10 One of the first things I wondered was how were they catching the frogs to eat, and would that have an effect on preserving the head bones? If you used something like a rabbit stick to knock a frog dead, and you were aiming for the head, the head bones probably would be shattered. Method of capture alone might account for why so few head bones were found--even if heads were twisted off and disposed of in the same pit. eat: spelling. Stupid autocorrect.
Very interesting. The breeding season would be about the only time you could easily gather a large bounty of toads. Any other time they are spread out far and wide and will hide anywhere. I wonder if they were after eggs as well. Even though I’m fairly certain that would taste disgusting. But during the breeding season they sure pile up and and they can’t outrun you, large quantities and minimal energy expense. Who knows really but very interesting.👍🇺🇸
Im part cherokee and my yard was so onfested with toads this year it was crazy, wnd im in ohio now. They actually dug out around my house foundation and somehow shredded my welcome mat at the front door. Theyve been pestering the dog all summer. Wtf?
This is the final definitive proof that the French were the first people in the Eastern Woodlands. Gotta love those frog legs, and like Smokey Bear said about Boy Scouts -- taste just like chicken!
Is there any indication that they used the Bufo toxin as an hallucinogenic? I know that my dog gets sick and foams at the mouth and gets dizzy when she picks one up in her mouth.
Two froggy observations, well ones not about frogs really. Firstly, I read that there was a mystery, on an island, about gull chicks having the back of their heads and brains removed, nothing else, just the back of the head. Turns out it was rats that were specifically targeting the gull chicks brain due to its mineral content. We tend to presume human action because its in a pit dug by humans, its possible it was just an easy meal, like a bucket of KFC, for birds. Secondly, frogs/toads have migration routes that have been followed for multiple generations. If a pit is dug across the route the frogs/toads will just continue to try to use that route. My house was built over thirty years ago, I still, during the autumn, have to pick up multiple frogs from the hall, they just can't climb steps it seems. Perhaps by luck or judgement these pits were dug where they were by the Cherokee.
So if the toads were beheaded...where are the heads? Were they beheaded at the time of capture so the heads would just be scattered out in the wilderness and lost to archaeological history?
In another video, you mentioned there was an exodus of sorts in the southeastern US for a few hundred years. Could you explain that and what theories there are as to why it happened? Thanks for all your videos!
Can you explain the Discrepancy between equating Mississippian sites with Ancestral Cherokee? Is it your stance that precontact Cherokee were a non-Mvskoke speaking Mississippian culture?
Mississippian is a religious and social complex that coalesced through the interactions of many groups of identity and ethnicity. It's not an ethnicity itself like Cherokee is. And confusingly Archaeologists tend to use "Mississippian" as a quazi-time period, regardless of whether the people we're talking about were part of the Mississippian cultural complex.
A cruel childrens play similar to the 20th century one that included a rhyme and popping the head off of various flowers. 😂 It's a strange form of "survivor bias" to jump to intentional decapitation without attached reason.
I live a few minutes from Coweeta Creek and you are parroting mainstream media talking points. These pits are 45,000 years old, artifacts of highly advanced civilizations with granite molding technologies that are beyond the most advanced technologies of today. They also align perfectly with the equinoxes, of course.
For a person who became a “Archaeologist” because of a video game- you sure are passionate about spreading only what others have documented. Keep an open mind, there’s many citizens that have boots on the ground, communicating with each other, and putting together the pieces of indigenous history that academia missed.
What kind of nonsense was that? This show is about a frog who became the first "God" of the Cherokee nation. It was this very amphibian who inspired the eastern woodlands tribes in music and ritual chanting. Please, sing along with Froggy - ruclips.net/video/jEYS6sg_4gs/видео.html
when you say before colonization? do you mean after columbus or the colonization from the north by the so called 'native' Americans overrunning the pre clovis peoples. you talking about toads or frogs? none of these 3 explanations makes any sense. animals would fall in that ya had to 'dig' out? where are the blow guns for poison darts? there aren't any poison frogs in that area. if for food why would the bones only be in those certain spots left scatterd?
Clovis is a tool type, not an ethnic group. The Clovis technology is based on the same methods as pre-clovis lithic technology, and based on all available genetic data there is no reason to suspect that there was any replacement of pre Clovis populations by an invading Clovis population.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m Cherokee (Oklahoma, family in Coweta and Tahlequah) and in the process of learning more about my ancestors’ homelands and their ancestral villages. Videos like this aren’t the only resource I have, obviously, but knowing that research like this is even *happening* means a lot to me. Thank you for the overview!! My family neither eats frogs (crayfish yes! frogs no) nor has any family stories about frogs, so I can’t offer any help there, but I’m now fascinated. I’ll have to read the research paper myself!!
Welcome to the channel! I was just in Tulsa this weekend. Went to eat at NĀTV in Broken Arrow.
I have that cookbook! It says to remove head and skin under water to prevent the meat from being bitter.
Loved all the toad & frog pics. The happy frog on the leaf & shaved had me rolling in laughter! 🤣
They were amusing. But I found them distracting. I’d rather do without.
@@SimonORorke I normally watch twice🤭. Always getting information worth watching twice here anyways.
@@kariannecrysler640 That sounds like a good strategy for learning, and not just in this case, as you say. I rewound the video a couple of times to make sure I got important points. And, likewise, I'm likely to do similar even when funny frogs are not waving at me. 😁
@@SimonORorke Relax, dude. It’s Wednesday.
I have no idea what that means. I just know it has something to do with frogs or toads and COD.
@@MarcosElMalo2 And I have no idea what COD means (in this context). Relaxed Wednesday version of Simon.
Did I hear the voice of Nick Offerman reading the archeological findings at 8:46 ?? Sure sounded like him!
Love all your videos. I also love learning and considering the successful ways in which people lived that might be drastically different than the ways we live today. Thanks man
As a total amateur and poorly educated person with an interest in archaeology, I immediately jumped to conclusions before the video was even 5 minutes in. This is the process most people go through. I, on the other hand, quickly realized that I am an idiot and don’t have the education or experience to come to any reasonable conclusions. Really good video, Nathan. Love your videos.
Super interesting! I really like the walk-through of the evidence in the paper. This channel is the best!
Thank you for the great story and also for the great memes :D
Love the artwork behind you on this episode. To whom it may concern.
May your travels be safe and fruitful DF.
I’m so happy I found your channel, this is a fantastic breakdown, and I can’t wait to watch more of your stuff! Thanks for making this sort of fascinating content.
Welcome!
The hallucinogenic aspect interests me because my cousin Dr. Paul Pascarosa went to live with a tribe near the Mexican border for a year. The tribe used peyote extensively. They used it as a medicine and for every aspect of life. These people seemed healthy and robust with very little symptoms of illness. Ofcourse, my cousin had to live as they did for one year following a grant. He later wrote an article in the American Medical Journal regarding his journey and the effects of peyote on the human mind and body. It was very well received. Circa 1970's.
Regardless of topic, what I love about these presentations is the insight into how professional archeology is done, and the interpretation of results. As opposed to the, "...there's a hill that's kind of pointy so it's got to be an Egyptian pyramid."
Great work!
Loved that bit about the Chickimaugas' apparent derogatory term for hill Cherokee as frog eaters. Love the literary/narrative reviews.
Shell mounds are so last year, the new hip thing are frog pits.
Also, nice Burzum reference.
I know this is a controversial opinion, but I think frogs prefer dancing to ska over hiphop.
Very interesting, as usual.
My grandmother, who was half Native American kept toads and black snakes on her back porch.
One to control flies, and the other to control rodents. Toads in food storage pits could have been to keep maggots from infesting meat.
You can keep a bunch in your glove compartment in case your car gets a flat or experiences other mechanical problems and you need to get it toad.
😂😂😂😂😂 @@MarcosElMalo2
In about a year, an ANCIENT ALEINS' episode will air in which Giorgio Tsoukalos and David Childress will reveal that "recent archeological work" indicates that Native Americans may have been providing meals to space aliens that eat frog brains. I think about all of he amazing things that weren't known when I went to college.
an then the real crazies show up. pure ignorance. we crossed the galaxy to visit but need someone to feed us
Very interesting thank you. In the South they eat a lot of bull frogs. So I guess that would keep someone alive.
I live in Cherokee n.c. thanks for sharing
When I was a kid in south east ga, if a rainstorm came up, the road would be covered in 1000s of frogs.
Was a squealie, squirty short trip.
Large frogs, as food would usually be killed by smashing or decapitation. As most small animals.
This is a lot of fun, like a real wudonit, with theories and suspects and the final discovery. Thank you, you are a great story teller. I appreciate your scientific integrity and the passion you bring to your work. If anybody ever asked you 'who cares about Indian frogs', tell them there are lots and lots of us.
Either food source, or hallucinogenic source, the toads specifically the Colorado river toad, as it is identified, was very important to people in what is currently North America in the past, as evidenced by its dipiction and remains of harvest documented in North America from the Colorado river south to Mexico and east to Cherokee land
An excellent review of an archeology article that gives more information about some of what wildlife was used within the civilization(s) from pre-Columbus sites. This thinking has also put another stone in some of the missing knowledge of the various Native American cultures. thank Nathanael
Toadally awesome Wednesday my Dude !:-) 🐸
Do other animal remains like fish, birds and small game show similar patterns? Are head bones and skulls missing for them too?
with most fish and birds the preservation and identification biases are pretty different, but more importantly, when you get 500 turkey bones on a site there's no question that they were put there by people. it's more obvious for fish. so there's no impetus for the same kind of experiment on those kinds of taxa.
I will say that in my own analyses, the fish heads were pretty well represented compared to the vertebrae, but the turkey skull fragments were very rare. they're also SUPER thin by comparison to their limbs and so on.
@@NathanaelFosaaen thanks!
Reminds me of Nepal where frogs/toads still play a role in rituals and are eaten too. A kirati shaman told me that they are part of the spiritual naga group. Specific frogs and toads can be caught, dried and stored for later ritualistic use.
Very interesting!
Given the fact of so many missing head parts which you explained quite well. A few questions. Why a pit to store or dispose de headed toads only? Seems to me they would use pits to raise as other creatures as well for the future and as renewable food source, possible self renewing in the case of either frogs or toads. Somewhere I heard they would flip turtles onto their backs to immobilize them for months sounds kind of crazy a stone lined pit with cover heavy stones would work better. And then there are catfish or smaller bullheads a pit perhaps a few feet deep with wet mud and little water they keep alive long time even over winter. If for waste disposal seems all sorts of creatures present in a pit . I have a bit of life experience on these edible delicacies. We would catch so many bullheads we kept them alive for days in an old bathtub outside in the shade before cleaning them. Snapping turtles which for some home owners of small ponds hate them. We catch and keep alive in a large galvanized feed buckets covered with a heavy storm drain grates and some concrete blocks, as they are super strong. We keep them this way feeding them cracked corn to cleanse out their system. Frogs I have speared since childhood. We would pull the skin off the lower part to expose the meat a clip at the leg joint and clip off the feet the rest is thrown away. I forgot a favorite eels lol. Great learning on your channel... Peace.
Before they were considered endangered, when I was a child, I ordered sautéed frogs' legs whenever my parents took us out to dinner at a restaurant that had French dishes on the menu -- a very rare treat. They were delicious, tasting like exceptionally moist white meat from chickens, swimming in garlic butter. I have to wonder if the Cherokee ate some of the toads's innards, as well i always felt bad about how much of these presumably farm-raised frogs went to waste. I don't think I would have enjoyed frog liver or heart, but you never know. Maybe they were as delicately flavored as the leg meat.
Ethnobotany has been an interest of mine for a long time.
Interesting. I once saw a video showing a Vietnamese woman roasting a frog that she had caught. She relished its taste so much, that after she concluded her meal, she proceeded to lick her fingers. As Colonel Sanders would say: "That's finger-licking good!" Jokes aside, I stumbled across your channel, and since I am part Cherokee, I wanted to hear what this was all about. Your analysis is most-likely correct. By the way, archaeology is a fascinating endeavor!
Hugely appreciate not only this incredible analysis, but the mean frog meme game you've got with it. 10/10
One of the first things I wondered was how were they catching the frogs to eat, and would that have an effect on preserving the head bones? If you used something like a rabbit stick to knock a frog dead, and you were aiming for the head, the head bones probably would be shattered. Method of capture alone might account for why so few head bones were found--even if heads were twisted off and disposed of in the same pit.
eat: spelling. Stupid autocorrect.
Maybe they were used to keep parasites off the stored food or beheaded, gutted, and skewered then left to dry
Very interesting. The breeding season would be about the only time you could easily gather a large bounty of toads. Any other time they are spread out far and wide and will hide anywhere. I wonder if they were after eggs as well. Even though I’m fairly certain that would taste disgusting. But during the breeding season they sure pile up and and they can’t outrun you, large quantities and minimal energy expense. Who knows really but very interesting.👍🇺🇸
Frog caviar good
Im part cherokee and my yard was so onfested with toads this year it was crazy, wnd im in ohio now. They actually dug out around my house foundation and somehow shredded my welcome mat at the front door. Theyve been pestering the dog all summer. Wtf?
Archaeologist. I would have guessed bass player. Interesting video.
I've never been hungry enough to eat a toad. Now I'm wondering if I've been missing out.
You... got Ron Swanson to read a quote?
it's been a while.
thanks for the tarot image of the Kermit.
(ps: do you live in a motel room?)
I live in many hotel rooms. They can't bring archaeological sites to me, so I have to go to them.
@@NathanaelFosaaen now, why is that do you think? the nerve of those ancient peoples to not live near your home. really...
Thanks!
This is the final definitive proof that the French were the first people in the Eastern Woodlands. Gotta love those frog legs, and like Smokey Bear said about Boy Scouts -- taste just like chicken!
Yoooo is that a Blackbraid patch? Hell yeah!
Also, if eating frogs, you usually go some distance away, after killing, to prep, cook and eat.
Again, any creature.
Is there any indication that they used the Bufo toxin as an hallucinogenic? I know that my dog gets sick and foams at the mouth and gets dizzy when she picks one up in her mouth.
Two froggy observations, well ones not about frogs really.
Firstly, I read that there was a mystery, on an island, about gull chicks having the back of their heads and brains removed, nothing else, just the back of the head. Turns out it was rats that were specifically targeting the gull chicks brain due to its mineral content. We tend to presume human action because its in a pit dug by humans, its possible it was just an easy meal, like a bucket of KFC, for birds.
Secondly, frogs/toads have migration routes that have been followed for multiple generations. If a pit is dug across the route the frogs/toads will just continue to try to use that route. My house was built over thirty years ago, I still, during the autumn, have to pick up multiple frogs from the hall, they just can't climb steps it seems. Perhaps by luck or judgement these pits were dug where they were by the Cherokee.
So if the toads were beheaded...where are the heads? Were they beheaded at the time of capture so the heads would just be scattered out in the wilderness and lost to archaeological history?
In another video, you mentioned there was an exodus of sorts in the southeastern US for a few hundred years. Could you explain that and what theories there are as to why it happened? Thanks for all your videos!
Can you explain the Discrepancy between equating Mississippian sites with Ancestral Cherokee? Is it your stance that precontact Cherokee were a non-Mvskoke speaking Mississippian culture?
Mississippian is a religious and social complex that coalesced through the interactions of many groups of identity and ethnicity. It's not an ethnicity itself like Cherokee is. And confusingly Archaeologists tend to use "Mississippian" as a quazi-time period, regardless of whether the people we're talking about were part of the Mississippian cultural complex.
They were dissecting frogs to teach the kids like we had to do in high school ,😂
Why is the thumbnail toad riding a European unicycle?
If you know, you know. If you don't know, you don't know.
Hows your uncle Scott doing 😅😅😅
The fact that this was a more or less just a "hill Cherokee" thing makes perfect sense. LoL
That’s what cracks me up. The “textual” support kind of buries the lead. This is the archaeological evidence for a slur. “Frogeaters”. 😂
A cruel childrens play similar to the 20th century one that included a rhyme and popping the head off of various flowers. 😂
It's a strange form of "survivor bias" to jump to intentional decapitation without attached reason.
Hell man yeah
Bird trap, throw all the old frog parts in. Possible
10:20 😂
You need Alcoholics Anonymous 😂😂😂
I’ve always wanted to try frog legs but frogs are one of my favourite animals so I feel conflicted 🐸
You can make frog 🐸 wine 🍷 😂😂
Maybe just ...frogget about it?
Lol tastes like chicken!!!
Frog leg feast👍🏻😍😝
I live a few minutes from Coweeta Creek and you are parroting mainstream media talking points. These pits are 45,000 years old, artifacts of highly advanced civilizations with granite molding technologies that are beyond the most advanced technologies of today. They also align perfectly with the equinoxes, of course.
It sounds like you smoke really REALLY good weed. Can I buy a dime off you?
Its dat boi, oh shit waddup
For a person who became a “Archaeologist” because of a video game- you sure are passionate about spreading only what others have documented. Keep an open mind, there’s many citizens that have boots on the ground, communicating with each other, and putting together the pieces of indigenous history that academia missed.
What kind of nonsense was that? This show is about a frog who became the first "God" of the Cherokee nation. It was this very amphibian who inspired the eastern woodlands tribes in music and ritual chanting. Please, sing along with Froggy - ruclips.net/video/jEYS6sg_4gs/видео.html
Get help fast...I looked at your channel. You are delusional. You see things that aren't real. Get help.
Which video game was it?
Oh for the love of god. edit forgot my eyeroll. 🙄
You’ve had too much buffotoxin, friend. Are you going to accuse Nathanael of perpetuating the archaeology orthodoxy because he toad the line?
when you say before colonization? do you mean after columbus or the colonization from the north by the so called 'native' Americans overrunning the pre clovis peoples. you talking about toads or frogs? none of these 3 explanations makes any sense. animals would fall in that ya had to 'dig' out? where are the blow guns for poison darts? there aren't any poison frogs in that area. if for food why would the bones only be in those certain spots left scatterd?
Clovis is a tool type, not an ethnic group. The Clovis technology is based on the same methods as pre-clovis lithic technology, and based on all available genetic data there is no reason to suspect that there was any replacement of pre Clovis populations by an invading Clovis population.