A lot of newer players were asking me which was better in my twitch chat :o so hopefully this gives you an idea! For those who wanna add anything leave it here for them too
Extra info on both handcannons that I don't think wallah mentioned: Thorn: Can 2 crit 1 body at lower resilience (4 and below I believe) Can 2 tap with the damage buff (unless at 6 resilience) The burn damage slows down recovery The burn damage has no damage falloff (the actual bullet does though) Works with necrotic grips on warlock Ace: Momento mori deals 90 to the head, which allows for any other damage buff to 2 tap to the head (pairs well with lunafaction boots empowering rift for consistent long range 2 shots) Has firefly, which could help deal damage to multiple people at a time (enhanced by catalyst) This is just a list from memory. There is probably a bunch of stuff I forgot
@Nick you have to find you're one DPI and Sensitivity try and test what works the best for you and use 1 setting for atliest 10-20 hours and then try other Settings I know it's sound Hard but it's not easy to find it and then the results speak for them self
Even without mori it is an almost perfect handcannon except for the lack of icarus. Sticky and forgiving, easy to shoot, tonnes of range and lots of useful perks.
Even without mori it is an almost perfect handcannon except for the lack of icarus. Sticky and forgiving, easy to shoot, tonnes of range and lots of useful perks.
Depends on how you want to play, I feel. Ace is, of course, the fragger's choice. Memento Mori is dummy good, plus having that thick 86 Range allows it to punch way above its' weight class when it comes to duelling outside its' optimal range. Plus, more range = fatter cones, meaning you'll be able to hit more headshots way easier than other HCS. Couple that with High Caliber Rounds and you've got a flinch machine as well, becoming ridiculous good for duelling. Thorn however is a insanely good option for more support based players, simply due to the burn effect it has. That burn not only denies health regen (super important in more serious settings like 3s or Trials), you can track players through walls with the DOT ticks. You more or less get wallhacks when you hit a guy, letting you call out to your teammates where they are almost exactly. Plus, if you do get Soul Devourer up, you'll be able to two tap anyone under 6 res (IIRC), a pretty nice bonus.
Personally I tend to gravitate more towards Thorn not only from the reasons listed above, but I simply love overall design of the gun whether it's look, ornaments or simply sound. Plus it feels amazing with so much handling it provides. All it needs is the promised catalyst and never gonna put it down in Crucible.
I think tha Ace is more for people that doesn't mind using most of the time his primary weapon. If you are good with the basic Ace you are good to go when Memento is active. Also none of the thorn stats were changed when it became a 140 so it's stats are good but weird for a 140 since it was created as a 150.
@@ithielwetz engage at closer ranges. Thorn still has its old 150 stats, including the AA cone, which optimizes the gun to feel best at shorter ranges than base 140s
@Marcus B i know but if I use any Handcannon I have like 50% Accuracy with Thorn 43% and then something like Palindrome has 56% so it's a big difference for me with Thorn
Thorn has better utility with 3 shot body ttk remnants and burn having mini wall hack with stopping shield regen, not to mention the potential 2H 1B on 5 and below resilience. Just a better support weapon overall as well. Ace has a lower potential skill ceiling than Thorn imo and easier use (if you’re not swapping) but if you can master Thorn and the damage profiles it is op asf in almost every way, the remnant burn even makes up for the faulty range a ton.
In some way I feel Thorn got sorta screwed over going down to 140, especially in the range, but if it had better range & other stats like a 140 then players may think it's a bit broken.
Thorn is amazing if you want to be a support on your team and delay recovery time so your team can clean up with you (good example of this at 12:48), the only thing that makes me shy away from it is the range. If you can proc chain mori after you get a kill I would say Ace is the better pick. The range boost (dmg goes up, your range technically also goes up) you get from mori is amazing for a 140 hc and the potential to 2 tap if you run charged with light + high energy fire is also awesome. All in all both are amazing picks and I'd say just run whatever you find more comfortable. Edit: forgot to mention the fact that you can ads and still watch for flanks on radar, which gives a HUGE advantage over literally any other gun.
Remember, Thorn has 85 aim assist and 100 Recoil Direction. One Hand Cannon Targeting Mod is +15 aim assist and takes Thorn to 100. Thorn is the perfect mid range HC. It can adapt to your playstyle. Aggressive Pressure: Thorn-Mid/Shotty-Close Lane Picks: Thron-Mid/Snipe-Long Thats my philosophy on Thorn. I play Warlock so I get T-Steps, Ophidian Aspects and Necrotic Grips. Thorn was meant for Warlocks imo.
I like thorn because I like having the ability to easily swap to a shotty. A lot of good players will push or have great movement so having that shotty ready is really important to me. Ace is great if I'm just maining hand cannon for the game though or long range maps
The difference in handling is, in MY opinion, not enough to justify using thorn over the far more consistent Ace of Spades. And I don't know if it's because of the sight or aim assist, but I hit much more shots with Ace. Love Thron tho aswell!
@Nvydia_ yeah. If you've heard range makes your aim assist better, that's only kinda true. Aim assist is a very thin cone that comes from the tip of the gun. Range extends the distance the cone covers before your aim is just a straight bullet hitbox. If you're playing your effective range properly though, like any good player would, thorn will always be easier to hit shots with.
@@heroicsquirrel3195 According to Dataminer's the Thorn Catalyst exists in the D2 Database but not everything in there makes it into the game so we just have to wait and see if it is released.
I love how you got actual good teammates in the 2nd game LOL "Kinda sucks that my teammates are actually good". Never thought I'd hear that sentence be said
really good point you made was with the handling. Special ammo gamers really need the handling to swap to a shotty when need be, maybe thats why i like it more.
Ace as a base HC is still the best without it's perk cuz of how hard that thing hits. Thorn will defo be up to par if not better than ace once it gets it's range and stability catalyst
@@angeldeleon7121 the perk definitely needs an addition in the catalyst, for being the most annoying damage perk to proc out of the exotic HCs it gives the smallest benefits
Thorn will always have a special place in my heart But ace is just alot better, Ace hits like a truck, it has radar while ads, and the exotic perk makes it feel like ur wielding a 120 with a fire rate a 140, and not to mention it belongs to my favorite hunter.
Thorn is for an aggressive player (the thorn burns and has limited range but has a lot of handling and allows it to quickswap to a shotgun not to mention is quite forgiving even without the perk). The ace is for a more passive player (has a built in radar, kill clip outlaw firefly and high call but not as much handling) but it requires a kill to shine still the range and feel of the gun are amazing so it doesn’t really matter; IMO play with ace for long maps or if you are careful with your gunfights and use thorn in short maps with an aggressive play style to bother players when they are resing, or punish low resilience guardians. Personally i would use Thorn because I am an aggressive shotguner but ace will always be good.
Ace: Keep radar while aiming High caliber rounds to flinch enemies Firefly to explode enemies Memento mori to do 90 damage to the head Funeral pyre for even more firefly damage Ace has more range Thorn: Poisons enemies Mini wallhacks Can be paired with necrotic grips
@@ThePrototype609 Bungie disabled the last shot uber damage temporarily in order to prevent people from pulling out the ghost and refreshing the last shot. Otherwhise, it's still a laser beam. 2-3 stacks of Paracausal and RF gives it like 37m range. It's like pocket Killing Wind, without the timer, much like Memento Mori is pocket Kill Clip. Even if I don't go for the last shot, I usually carry 2-4 stacks from previous encounter to have that silly range and accuracy. It's a three tap monster, hawkmoon.
Thorn imo is much more useful in closer range engagements. I wouldnt want to find myself on the receiving end of Ace at it's most effective range. But if I can get in closer. Thorn just has a much better chance.
Out these exotic 140s I think Thorn is the best if the map allows for it, Ace is the most well rounded though. I would take Hawkmoon over them both if it worked with exotics that auto reloaded it though
Hawkmoon deserves a spot in this discussion. I have rangefinder and eye of the storm rolls that I’ll use even in comp/trials depending on the map. However, thorn and ace will still always have a leg up imo because the perks benefit you more often.
I just picked up both yesterday. Got lucky enough to get all the materials together in time for the Iron Banner, bought Thorn and Ace. Then scored a God roll Steady Hand and used that the rest of the games lol
Ace is better than Thorn, but keep in mind, Thorn with Soul Devourer can actually outrange Ace because Thorn’s burn has no dropoff and Ace’s Mori bullets have sooner dropoff. Thorn also does more damage than Ace with Memento. Thorn is still able to 3 tap in 120 territory
I love both the extra damage perks but having to go after and collect the thorn perk and then having it only last 5 seconds gonna have to give ace the first place
*7 seconds but yeah I agree it’s sucks when you proc the perk but then can’t use it because nobody is around. However, thorn with soul devourer is deadlier than ace with mori so having it on a timer balances the weapon, and encourages aggressive gameplay. A range and time boost with a catalyst would be amazing
I feel like this debate kind of overlooks crimson. On console at least, it’s easy to use, flinches the living shit out of your opponents, and grants health regen and reloads itself on precision kills.
On PC its terrible. It is very difficult to hit consistent headshots on people, especially if they are moving sideways, as there is a slight delay between bullets in a burst, which is not compensated by aim assist on PC.
I think even on console, although crimson is good, thorn and ace are better in the hands of good players. If you really want a busted console weapon, the last word….
Personally speaking, I value the thorn more than ace, purely with the way I play with it. My thorn is generally paired with a sniper, so ace really doesn’t matter if I have those extended ranges covered. Not to mention that thorn has constant perk uptime with the burn, which I value a lot more than a perk that takes a kill to activate and disappears on stow. I prefer consistency above all else. (Plus if I’m gonna use a 140 for range, I’m just gonna use a Fatebringer)
I was a jack of all trades when I played this game a lot so I had necrotic grips and thorn, that combo was really something special in pvp but the ace with ophidian aspects and felwinter's was another insane build
Thorn will become the #1 PvP gun in the game when it gets a catalyst. Specifically a catalyst that gives it +2 more rounds, a range buff and the orbs on the ground after a kill track towards you.
Sorry if I'm just ignorant but does mori reduce range? At 11:15 he hits 1 mori headshot for 76 damage and then two regular headshots at the full 70 damage
Which is better? Whichever you play better with. In sweat circumstances, they’re both insane, like you have 90 damage Ace bullets, but would you give that away to switch to your special weapon? You have to switch in sweats, it’s literally obligatory, and thorn is amazing because of the TWO HEAD one body at base, plus prevents regeneration a LOT. But then ace has a free radar and 12 bullets… Its just preference
I used Ace in Survival and dropped my first We ran out of medals. It's so good for PvP because you can constantly keep the extra damage rounds going. It isn't as good in 6v6 modes but Rumble, 3v3 and Trials it's insanely good. Get that first kill and push off it and it's almost always a win in a straight up primary gun fight.
Depends in my opinion. Ace in 6’s for sure, memento mori makes it super easy to keep rolling people in groups, while in a trials setting I feel thorn is more valuable. Being able to keep people out of gunfights and not healing in a game like trials is huge in my opinion. Both solid options for sure!
I switch between them because they’re both fun, but thorn seems easier to use for me. Not just because it has higher AA and hits shots, but I feel like it has an X-factor that helps in duels as long as you’re within its range. That burn damage I think makes players panic, and it causes the audio and visual effects that may not bother everyone, but it definitely can cause people to miss sometimes. Also the delayed health regen or inability to get revives while burning is huge. And with soul devourer procced you feel basically unbeatable…ace has a lot going for it but ultimately, without mori, you have to win a duel with a 140 doing base damage
I just started getting back into ace after thinking I was bad with it, and man oh man I love ace wayyyyy more than thorn, ace just feels so freaking crisp
I love the Ace. I always have it with me. Right now, I’m kind of stuck on the Huckleberry. I love it when mobs come boiling out of a spawn point and my Huckleberry never runs out of ammo. I don’t play pvp, so I can’t speak for it there…
I love trying other hand cannons but I always seem to come back to ace when I dunno what to use. I like thorn in 6s cos it’s easier for the perk to have uptime
Thorn kill chains are so fun. The initial 7 second timer seems so short, but when you collect the second remnant and get the 10 second timer, somehow it feels like an eternity and makes chaining kills much easier. However, if I’m really sweating, I’ll use the last word (controller player) because it has more benefits than even ace imo
A lot of newer players were asking me which was better in my twitch chat :o so hopefully this gives you an idea! For those who wanna add anything leave it here for them too
Extra info on both handcannons that I don't think wallah mentioned:
Thorn:
Can 2 crit 1 body at lower resilience (4 and below I believe)
Can 2 tap with the damage buff (unless at 6 resilience)
The burn damage slows down recovery
The burn damage has no damage falloff (the actual bullet does though)
Works with necrotic grips on warlock
Ace:
Momento mori deals 90 to the head, which allows for any other damage buff to 2 tap to the head (pairs well with lunafaction boots empowering rift for consistent long range 2 shots)
Has firefly, which could help deal damage to multiple people at a time (enhanced by catalyst)
This is just a list from memory. There is probably a bunch of stuff I forgot
Wallah peoples got wish taken down smdh this world is full of jins
hey wallah what emblem are you using
wallah u gotta tell me what mouse ur using, or at least ur sense and dpi. ur aim is so fucking smooth
@Nick you have to find you're one DPI and Sensitivity try and test what works the best for you and use 1 setting for atliest 10-20 hours and then try other Settings I know it's sound Hard but it's not easy to find it and then the results speak for them self
The radar, outlaw, firefly, look, feel and forgiveness of ace makes it the best for me
There is no outlaw, firefly gives rs
@@s4lv4dopk49 basically the same thing professor
@@s4lv4dopk49 it’s still outlaw lmao
Me holding my hawk moon 🌚
@@s4lv4dopk49 it's still outlaw tho isn't it ....
neither, malfeasance sleeper meta
You haven't lived until you 6 stack with nothing but malfs.
@Simp Wolf, Claimer of Savathun's Bathwater oh god and 6 Bubbles too I give up there nothing what you can do more
@@Phoenix6942-7 Yeah, plus the perk stacks regardless of who does the damage.
Malfeasance is meta for everyone who's over 50 years old.
Based and drifter pilled
Thorn is good for shotgun or sniping, but use ace if you don't mind not swapping to a special weapon
But if you swap you lose perk so why would this be the case?
@@Nervgearr read the comment again
@@dinkabird7883 oops. It was the double negative that threw me off. Didn’t read the “not” the first time.
Something the whole player base doesn't do, some people would chase you with their shotgun across the map lol
@@Nervgearr my bad.. should've worded it better lol😅
“It’s just a normal 140 without the perk” yeah with unreal stats and every god perk you can think of.
Unreal?
The only outstanding stat is range
@@brcasalino and stability
Even without mori it is an almost perfect handcannon except for the lack of icarus. Sticky and forgiving, easy to shoot, tonnes of range and lots of useful perks.
Even without mori it is an almost perfect handcannon except for the lack of icarus. Sticky and forgiving, easy to shoot, tonnes of range and lots of useful perks.
Depends on how you want to play, I feel. Ace is, of course, the fragger's choice. Memento Mori is dummy good, plus having that thick 86 Range allows it to punch way above its' weight class when it comes to duelling outside its' optimal range. Plus, more range = fatter cones, meaning you'll be able to hit more headshots way easier than other HCS. Couple that with High Caliber Rounds and you've got a flinch machine as well, becoming ridiculous good for duelling.
Thorn however is a insanely good option for more support based players, simply due to the burn effect it has. That burn not only denies health regen (super important in more serious settings like 3s or Trials), you can track players through walls with the DOT ticks. You more or less get wallhacks when you hit a guy, letting you call out to your teammates where they are almost exactly. Plus, if you do get Soul Devourer up, you'll be able to two tap anyone under 6 res (IIRC), a pretty nice bonus.
Memento mori just turns ace into a 120rpm but it's actually 140rpm.
Personally I tend to gravitate more towards Thorn not only from the reasons listed above, but I simply love overall design of the gun whether it's look, ornaments or simply sound. Plus it feels amazing with so much handling it provides. All it needs is the promised catalyst and never gonna put it down in Crucible.
@@Vosik_Splicer_Archpriest 120s do 80crit now, ace w/perk does 90 crit
@@lele_goof prenerf 120s then
I agree with this but thorn 2 taps with soul devourer and since it doesn't have dropoff with soul devourer you can 3 tap in 120 range.
I think tha Ace is more for people that doesn't mind using most of the time his primary weapon. If you are good with the basic Ace you are good to go when Memento is active. Also none of the thorn stats were changed when it became a 140 so it's stats are good but weird for a 140 since it was created as a 150.
Thorn will always be my favorite handcannon. It's just so cool and feels so good
I like it too but unfortunately I can't Hit my Shots with it I tryed ever Ornament and it didn't change :(
@@ithielwetz engage at closer ranges. Thorn still has its old 150 stats, including the AA cone, which optimizes the gun to feel best at shorter ranges than base 140s
@@ithielwetz just use targeting mods. Hand cannons feel completely different with targeting mods and unflinching mods.
@Marcus B i know but if I use any Handcannon I have like 50% Accuracy with Thorn 43% and then something like Palindrome has 56% so it's a big difference for me with Thorn
Thorn has better utility with 3 shot body ttk remnants and burn having mini wall hack with stopping shield regen, not to mention the potential 2H 1B on 5 and below resilience. Just a better support weapon overall as well. Ace has a lower potential skill ceiling than Thorn imo and easier use (if you’re not swapping) but if you can master Thorn and the damage profiles it is op asf in almost every way, the remnant burn even makes up for the faulty range a ton.
In some way I feel Thorn got sorta screwed over going down to 140, especially in the range, but if it had better range & other stats like a 140 then players may think it's a bit broken.
It‘s not op asf imo it‘s what an exotic is supposed to be. Both of them are imo, gives you a reason to use them over other guns of their archetype.
Thorn is amazing if you want to be a support on your team and delay recovery time so your team can clean up with you (good example of this at 12:48), the only thing that makes me shy away from it is the range. If you can proc chain mori after you get a kill I would say Ace is the better pick. The range boost (dmg goes up, your range technically also goes up) you get from mori is amazing for a 140 hc and the potential to 2 tap if you run charged with light + high energy fire is also awesome. All in all both are amazing picks and I'd say just run whatever you find more comfortable.
Edit: forgot to mention the fact that you can ads and still watch for flanks on radar, which gives a HUGE advantage over literally any other gun.
@@MonsieurAuContraire absolutely it did, but the DOT is so good that the ROF nerf didn’t hurt AS bad lol
They both have pros/cons. i love both.
Remember, Thorn has 85 aim assist and 100 Recoil Direction. One Hand Cannon Targeting Mod is +15 aim assist and takes Thorn to 100.
Thorn is the perfect mid range HC. It can adapt to your playstyle.
Aggressive Pressure: Thorn-Mid/Shotty-Close
Lane Picks: Thron-Mid/Snipe-Long
Thats my philosophy on Thorn. I play Warlock so I get T-Steps, Ophidian Aspects and Necrotic Grips. Thorn was meant for Warlocks imo.
I like thorn because I like having the ability to easily swap to a shotty. A lot of good players will push or have great movement so having that shotty ready is really important to me. Ace is great if I'm just maining hand cannon for the game though or long range maps
same
The difference in handling is, in MY opinion, not enough to justify using thorn over the far more consistent Ace of Spades. And I don't know if it's because of the sight or aim assist, but I hit much more shots with Ace.
Love Thron tho aswell!
@@nikiplayzzz4623 ace actually has less aim assist than thorn
weird as I find hitting crits with thorn easier than ace, on console though, thats when they are in range for thorn.
@Nvydia_ yeah. If you've heard range makes your aim assist better, that's only kinda true.
Aim assist is a very thin cone that comes from the tip of the gun. Range extends the distance the cone covers before your aim is just a straight bullet hitbox. If you're playing your effective range properly though, like any good player would, thorn will always be easier to hit shots with.
Ace is my go to for comp and 6's especially when you start chaining mori, otherwise it's very forgiving when you hit your crits
It would be nice if thorns catalyst had a range increase involved with it when the catalyst is released.
Is it getting one
@@heroicsquirrel3195 According to Dataminer's the Thorn Catalyst exists in the D2 Database but not everything in there makes it into the game so we just have to wait and see if it is released.
Something that works in Thorn's favor is the burn procs Frenzy, so if you run it on a shotty or whatever it'll give you the damage boost.
Huh, TIL. Another bonus for bow swapping with Wolftone
Sounds like that'd pair nicely with my quickdraw/frenzy sojourners tale 😈
Ace with mori just feels different, its like a monster on another level
Like Jötunn
Not to mention how crazy powerful you feel with mori and charged w light. God ace looks so fucking good in that moment
Basically memento just changes ace into a 120rpm but it's actually a 140.
@@Vosik_Splicer_Archpriest its just kill clip on crack and steroids
@@Vosik_Splicer_Archpriest stronger than a 120 actually
I love how you got actual good teammates in the 2nd game LOL "Kinda sucks that my teammates are actually good". Never thought I'd hear that sentence be said
They seem mostly the same for the most part, but ace for some reason just feels better imo
Probably the range
It's the range for shure
I think Thorn’s recoil just feels better for me. Idk it was my first “good” handcannon.
Thorn is better for aggressive play styles and ace is better for slower paced game styles.
@@-animetallica4554 Slap on Lunas with an Empowering Rift on Warlock, and 2 tap snipe people across the map with Memento Mori
really good point you made was with the handling. Special ammo gamers really need the handling to swap to a shotty when need be, maybe thats why i like it more.
Ace as a base HC is still the best without it's perk cuz of how hard that thing hits. Thorn will defo be up to par if not better than ace once it gets it's range and stability catalyst
Is it really getting catalyst??
@@dfit23 It’s been in the database for ages. 30 range and 20 stability. If Bungie actually released this, Thorn would rule PvP.
@@angeldeleon7121 it would be broken af and I don't think I'd be worth it.
@@dfit23 Exactly, which is why I hope they change this. Just give it a bit of range and add on to the perk and there you go
@@angeldeleon7121 the perk definitely needs an addition in the catalyst, for being the most annoying damage perk to proc out of the exotic HCs it gives the smallest benefits
Ace just hits different with the reload and the sound and feel of the gun with mori.
WALLAH THE MERCH IS FYE. I love the look it’s a mix of tech/retro/modern. Shit slaps. Good shit keep up the work!
Thorn will always have a special place in my heart
But ace is just alot better, Ace hits like a truck, it has radar while ads, and the exotic perk makes it feel like ur wielding a 120 with a fire rate a 140, and not to mention it belongs to my favorite hunter.
Dude that Got One logo is killer, definitely will be copping
The knife through the skull needs to have text that says, "hold that bucko!"
Thorn is for an aggressive player (the thorn burns and has limited range but has a lot of handling and allows it to quickswap to a shotgun not to mention is quite forgiving even without the perk). The ace is for a more passive player (has a built in radar, kill clip outlaw firefly and high call but not as much handling) but it requires a kill to shine still the range and feel of the gun are amazing so it doesn’t really matter; IMO play with ace for long maps or if you are careful with your gunfights and use thorn in short maps with an aggressive play style to bother players when they are resing, or punish low resilience guardians. Personally i would use Thorn because I am an aggressive shotguner but ace will always be good.
@@ADUSN lemme fix that.
how does he move like that imma need a setting video please and do you play on keyboard and mouse
My adept igneous. No one will change my mind lol
I loved seeing the gameplay in new playlists in this one!
What I do is if I do a fast swapy shotgun hand cannon playstyle I do thorn. If I wanna main a handcannon I use ace.
We need a hoodie with the jimbo character on it !
Ace:
Keep radar while aiming
High caliber rounds to flinch enemies
Firefly to explode enemies
Memento mori to do 90 damage to the head
Funeral pyre for even more firefly damage
Ace has more range
Thorn:
Poisons enemies
Mini wallhacks
Can be paired with necrotic grips
Thorn has more handling, and prevents health regen
If u master Thorn its by far the best fragger weapon in the game no doubt especially for fast paced gameplay.
Community: "Whats better. Thorn or Ace"
Me: *Having fun with my rangefinder hawkmoon*
IKR
Still bugged tho. Not really worth using until it's fixed.
@@codywalker1041 bugged?
@@ThePrototype609 Bungie disabled the last shot uber damage temporarily in order to prevent people from pulling out the ghost and refreshing the last shot.
Otherwhise, it's still a laser beam. 2-3 stacks of Paracausal and RF gives it like 37m range. It's like pocket Killing Wind, without the timer, much like Memento Mori is pocket Kill Clip.
Even if I don't go for the last shot, I usually carry 2-4 stacks from previous encounter to have that silly range and accuracy. It's a three tap monster, hawkmoon.
its not bugged anymore what yall on about it was working all day for me?
Thorn imo is much more useful in closer range engagements. I wouldnt want to find myself on the receiving end of Ace at it's most effective range. But if I can get in closer. Thorn just has a much better chance.
I feel like Ace is great for slow and calculated play, Thorn wins when playing with extreme mobility and just nonstop sprinting people down.
Hip fire ace is hilarious
Does Thorn have a colonel ornament? No so Ace Of Spades is better.
Ok but hawk gun go *CAW CAW*
Can the ace look taken? Thought not. Checkmate atheists
Your guns can't use menagerie ornaments, sounds like Sturm and Drang wins
Hawkmoon is the true answer
Out these exotic 140s I think Thorn is the best if the map allows for it, Ace is the most well rounded though. I would take Hawkmoon over them both if it worked with exotics that auto reloaded it though
Hawkmoon is too crispy. Can't let go of it.
Hawkmoon deserves a spot in this discussion. I have rangefinder and eye of the storm rolls that I’ll use even in comp/trials depending on the map. However, thorn and ace will still always have a leg up imo because the perks benefit you more often.
I just picked up both yesterday. Got lucky enough to get all the materials together in time for the Iron Banner, bought Thorn and Ace. Then scored a God roll Steady Hand and used that the rest of the games lol
Maury approves this over and over discussion.
Ace is better than Thorn, but keep in mind, Thorn with Soul Devourer can actually outrange Ace because Thorn’s burn has no dropoff and Ace’s Mori bullets have sooner dropoff. Thorn also does more damage than Ace with Memento. Thorn is still able to 3 tap in 120 territory
I don’t think that I have ever done under 90 with Mori the maps just aren’t that big for it to be a problem
I love both the extra damage perks but having to go after and collect the thorn perk and then having it only last 5 seconds gonna have to give ace the first place
*7 seconds but yeah I agree it’s sucks when you proc the perk but then can’t use it because nobody is around. However, thorn with soul devourer is deadlier than ace with mori so having it on a timer balances the weapon, and encourages aggressive gameplay. A range and time boost with a catalyst would be amazing
Ace is really good but thorn transcends to a whole new level w necrotic grips on warlock
Btw Wallah, Thorn does not reset a res timer it will burn them but for some reason you can still pull the res off as you’re burning
Ace is a 120 undercover
I feel like this debate kind of overlooks crimson. On console at least, it’s easy to use, flinches the living shit out of your opponents, and grants health regen and reloads itself on precision kills.
On PC its terrible. It is very difficult to hit consistent headshots on people, especially if they are moving sideways, as there is a slight delay between bullets in a burst, which is not compensated by aim assist on PC.
@@daniel96jg It’s still amazing on PC, just takes getting used to
I think even on console, although crimson is good, thorn and ace are better in the hands of good players. If you really want a busted console weapon, the last word….
Just ordered a t shirt i like the subtle yet dope destiny inspired designs
My favourite handcanon rn is probably hawkmoon
you are unequivocally my favorite destiny utoober
Personally speaking, I value the thorn more than ace, purely with the way I play with it. My thorn is generally paired with a sniper, so ace really doesn’t matter if I have those extended ranges covered. Not to mention that thorn has constant perk uptime with the burn, which I value a lot more than a perk that takes a kill to activate and disappears on stow. I prefer consistency above all else.
(Plus if I’m gonna use a 140 for range, I’m just gonna use a Fatebringer)
I was a jack of all trades when I played this game a lot so I had necrotic grips and thorn, that combo was really something special in pvp but the ace with ophidian aspects and felwinter's was another insane build
Will you do a video tutorial on how and what to keep in the vault, ships, weapons, armor, ghost and the whole 9 yards
You're just toooo good bro 😂
The fact that the skull with a knife in it hoodie doesn't say "hold this" is a missed opportunity.
thorn used to be a 150 which makes it better. Damn bungo
Honestly ace is the better weapon but thorn just slaps so thorn>ace
Thorn will become the #1 PvP gun in the game when it gets a catalyst.
Specifically a catalyst that gives it +2 more rounds, a range buff and the orbs on the ground after a kill track towards you.
answer: ace because it has a catalyst and can make orbs
For rumble it's probably better to try to get the thorn remnant to follow you for a bit before picking it up if no one is immediately around
Both are good in their own way. Ace is more satisfying and feels like it has better air accuracy.
I think for thorn it’s also important to consider the firefly effect it gets with necrotic grips
Sorry if I'm just ignorant but does mori reduce range? At 11:15 he hits 1 mori headshot for 76 damage and then two regular headshots at the full 70 damage
It amazes me thorn doesn't have a catalyst after all this time. Imo it deserves one. Either proc soul devourer on kills or extend the duration...
Which is better? Whichever you play better with. In sweat circumstances, they’re both insane, like you have 90 damage Ace bullets, but would you give that away to switch to your special weapon? You have to switch in sweats, it’s literally obligatory, and thorn is amazing because of the TWO HEAD one body at base, plus prevents regeneration a LOT. But then ace has a free radar and 12 bullets… Its just preference
Don't forget that Ace of Spades insane range stat helps a lot with it's aim assist cone too, the bullets are quite literally magnets.
Wallah you ever need design ideas, get at me. I’m great at coming up with concepts and design ideas for merch. 🤟🏾
Ace of spades without question. The only reason I don’t use it is because you can’t put Icarus on it
just found your channel! imma learn so much off you, good content bro
I love your videos wallah
your hunter movement is so clean
Don't forget that combining Thorn with Necrotic Grips ups it's utility considerably. It can be a real terror in Trials.
I feel like i hit more shots with thorn than ace, then again its been a while since ive used ace might give it a try again after seeing this
Thorn has 15 more aim assist than Ace 😉
Ace - 1:44 thorn - 5:09
I use ace mainly for the mag size.
This man's weapons tests are better than my sweatiest plays.
New favorite destiny pvp RUclipsr keep up the good work
Gotta say I appreciate you for not using Stasis.
You already know I copped one of those “got one” hoodies! Love the design on it :))
I used Ace in Survival and dropped my first We ran out of medals. It's so good for PvP because you can constantly keep the extra damage rounds going. It isn't as good in 6v6 modes but Rumble, 3v3 and Trials it's insanely good. Get that first kill and push off it and it's almost always a win in a straight up primary gun fight.
I’m telling you right now wallah if you ever make a “Hold That” hoodie design I will absolutely buy one
That first lobby was full of absolute Jim's 😂. Keep up the good work Wallah 👍.
Ace also keeps your radar up which is huge for newer players but not something they should rely on since it can be a crutch.
Hawkmoon is my favorite. Got my first we ran with it
Depends in my opinion. Ace in 6’s for sure, memento mori makes it super easy to keep rolling people in groups, while in a trials setting I feel thorn is more valuable. Being able to keep people out of gunfights and not healing in a game like trials is huge in my opinion. Both solid options for sure!
I switch between them because they’re both fun, but thorn seems easier to use for me. Not just because it has higher AA and hits shots, but I feel like it has an X-factor that helps in duels as long as you’re within its range. That burn damage I think makes players panic, and it causes the audio and visual effects that may not bother everyone, but it definitely can cause people to miss sometimes. Also the delayed health regen or inability to get revives while burning is huge. And with soul devourer procced you feel basically unbeatable…ace has a lot going for it but ultimately, without mori, you have to win a duel with a 140 doing base damage
Anyone gonna talk about that one guy with the Rapid-fire ace???
I just started getting back into ace after thinking I was bad with it, and man oh man I love ace wayyyyy more than thorn, ace just feels so freaking crisp
I love the Ace. I always have it with me. Right now, I’m kind of stuck on the Huckleberry. I love it when mobs come boiling out of a spawn point and my Huckleberry never runs out of ammo. I don’t play pvp, so I can’t speak for it there…
what fusion are you using?
the problem with ace of spades is that cancelling the reload also removes the special bullets and I accidentally do that a lot
ace is definitely better than thorn on paper but thorn is just so satisfying
Not now say wallah bruh I'm on the last episode of bleach
You have to remember that ace also has a catalyst and thorn doesn't so in terms of potential but for now this comparison makes sense
Hello wallah. Definitely gonna cop some merch 😎
Double uploads? the pvp god provides :)
13:49 DED 😂
nice merch dood
I love trying other hand cannons but I always seem to come back to ace when I dunno what to use. I like thorn in 6s cos it’s easier for the perk to have uptime
Thorn kill chains are so fun. The initial 7 second timer seems so short, but when you collect the second remnant and get the 10 second timer, somehow it feels like an eternity and makes chaining kills much easier. However, if I’m really sweating, I’ll use the last word (controller player) because it has more benefits than even ace imo
I prefer Thorn over Ace because it feels better to me but Ace is definitely better.