Evidence Joseph Smith DIDN'T write the Book of Mormon! | SU Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 10 апр 2021
- Brian, history's transparanciest, comes back on the podcast to talk about his research over the past several years on the Book of Mormon. In this episode, Brian talks about an 'Author Gap' where he analyzes Joseph Smith's documented oratory and compositional writing skills in 1829, and what skills an author would actually need to produce a book such as the Book of Mormon.
That's the gap.
Brian will take you through and expound upon the truth of the Book of Mormon, while also adding an intellectual support for testimony.
Download Brian's PDF here detailing the Book of Mormon Author Gap!
www.dropbox.com/s/qxtgte406db...
Check out Brian's article: "Proving to the World: A Unique Declaration in the Doctrine and Covenants Section 20.
www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/b...
Comment below! What do you think about the author gap?
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My Great Great Grandmother Sarah Heller Conrad Bunnell was there when Joseph and Oliver were translating the Book of Mormon. Her story is rather remarkable and testifies that there was something more powerful and amazing going on that just writing a book. Her experience is not a well know story of this time of translation. I am not going to go through here story here but if you want so read her experience can be looked up by googling her name.
Thx
I looked it up. Thanks for the reference.
This was a beautiful story about your great great grandmother. Joseph Smith was a direct descent of mine and I found this so interesting. Thank you.
That right there. The story about your great Grandma, is proof to me that the book of Mormon is true! Thank you for sharing.
You make cry, I just feel great to knowing that there were people who could feel and how envious I would have liked to be there and not to see more to feel how beautiful it is to do the work of God
The Jesus that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
The Book of Mormon has changed my life for the better . . . the doctrine is so profound and full of hope; i.e. Alma 42 is a great sermon on mercy and the atonement. Loved this. Thank you brethren.
The Jesus that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@@brettpinion4233 this isn't true. Nowhere in the bible does Jesus say he's literally God. this idea came about later and has no bearing on the Hebrew god Jesus worshipped.
Jesus and Satan are brothers if you actually read the bible. Satan is an angel. And angels are called the sons of god. Jesus is also the son of god. Therefore.. They're brothers.
If you really want to seek God I would suggest reading a translation of the Bible with today's English. Not the old King James version which contains many words that are "dead" because they are not used in today's vernacular.
BOM and J.S. are easily proved false and the Bible is easily proven true as I show below if you want to investigate. I put this together carefully and you can choose to research it's accuracy or continue to follow something provably false. God bless.
WHY DO LDS REJECT GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE GOD OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
I read the B of M in Spanish when I was learning Spanish 30 years ago. Every time I moved to a new book/chapter I had to do a deep dive in the dictionary because the author of that book used very different words and sentence construction. The Book of Mormon was not written by one author.
Read it in a different language, you’ll see what i mean.
I agree, it seems quite clear to me that Nephi, Jacob, Mormon, Moroni, etc. have very distinct authorial voices.
I read The Book of Mormon in Russian and I had the same experience as you did in Spanish.
@@nathangale7702 Yet they all are a lie. Archelogy, DNA, and botany prove joseph smith was a false prophet sharing a false system that we all can be gods- just like satan told Adam and Eve in the garden.
WHY DO LDS REJECT GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE GOD OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
Two years past... this interview is still fresh as a daisy and sooo uplifting to watch and hear. Thank you, from Australia
😊
God will judge every person who has drawn breath according to the light available to them. This doesn’t get anyone off the hook because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). This means everyone needs Jesus to be saved, but not everyone will be judged for rejecting Jesus, whom they never knew of.
Don’t skip this variable, especially when compared to other authors
“For no sooner was it known that I had them, than the most strenuous exertions were used to get them from me. Every stratagem that could be invented was resorted to for that purpose. The persecution became more bitter and severe than before, and multitudes were on the alert continually to get them from me if possible. But by the wisdom of God, they remained safe in my hands, until I had accomplished by them what was required at my hand.” The Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith
I really enjoyed this! It's obvious that many many hours went into this research! Insights I had never considered. Well done! 💕
Everyone wants to talk facts until Latter-day Saints break out the historical records.
😤 And when I bring out all these facts, those around me say that they are from the Church, and therefore, cannot be trusted.
So then what your view (about facts they will bring. More facts to confirm)?
Joseph Smith was no dummy. He was charismatic
a great manipulator, and storyteller. just read the other fantasy books out there like the hobbit people can come up with names and places vocabulary and made up languages. These Mormon pathologist continue to try to believe in fantasy because they feel their life and their beliefs depends on it bottom line they can’t handle the truth, which is that it’s all built up a hood, a phony vision with many versions.
The only way all the dots connect is that the book of mormon was translated by revelation
Is there any document that would list all the references to this list? I would live to create aBOM thst had this list on the side and you could breakdown the list on the side and then access all individual references in this lidt and it would take you into the BOM passage in question. People could thus review this list in the BOM indeed. That would be awesome.
Assume for a moment that Joseph Smith did write the Book of Mormon. What level of capability would be required for someone of his age and education, even assuming he had full access to all source material available in his time. Several accounts indicate that he dictated the text. How would his genius compare to the greats in history? Are there any examples of prodigies in philosophy? I think there are none save Jesus, at least while they were young (mathematician Bertrand Russell became philosophical after he was 50). Wouldn't Joseph have to have been orders of magnitude above the greatest geniuses of all time whom we celebrate today?
There are a few things to remember when considering the "Joseph is either a genius or a prophet" angle. Let me play devil's advocate here to highlight why it's not a good argument. Like you said, assume that Joseph _did_ write the book.
The first is that the Book of Mormon draws heavily from the KJV bible, many verses being exact copies, and Joseph is known to have had a KJV bible at the time. The obvious choice, if you are going to plagiarize the bible, is to maintain the similar linguistic style seen in the KJV (the fancy/outdated wording, including biblical-sounding names, etc.). Consequently, a good education will have little effect if you're just plagiarizing the linguistic patterns (and stealing the characters) of another book anyway. Creativity is significantly more important.
The second is that there have been roughly _5,000_ corrections to the Book of Mormon since its original publication; these changes range from minor grammatical or spelling corrections to significant changes such as changing the name of a certain character in the book. Additionally, Joseph had a multitude of people around him who were themselves apt to benefit by the publication and subsequent success of the book; Martin Harris even financed the publication himself. It's a bit naïve to suspect that it really was just Joseph himself putting it all together if one is going to claim that the Book of Mormon is "fake."
As well, _The View of the Hebrews_ contains a startling amount of similarities to the storyline in the Book of Mormon. Nobody knows if this book actually influenced Joseph, or if he had ever even heard of it. He did have a relatively close connection to the book though; Oliver Cowdery attended the church of the man who wrote that book, and Oliver likely would have at least heard of it. From an outsider point of view, the notion that Joseph plagiarized _The View of the Hebrews_ in addition to the bible is a _far_ more likely explanation than "god revealed the story to Joseph."
Lastly, I'll leave you with this: The Book of Mormon is known to contain a large amount of anachronisms in it. This hardly points to Joseph being a "genius" if he did in fact fake the whole thing. A good portion of the errors in the Book of Mormon that were later corrected were well-known errors in the KJV version of the Bible that themselves were corrected in later revisions of the Bible. Joseph was a bit sloppy; he was all too enthusiastic about the Kinderhook plates and messed up there as well, and he never thought that Egyptologists would be able to find out the true meaning of the facsimile he claimed was a part of the Book of Abraham.
None of this proves that JS was not a prophet. I'm simply highlighting that the argument of "Joseph was either a genius or a prophet" is a very poor one; you have way better arguments you could be using!
@@alienwarex51i3 I disagree, I think Hales shows convincingly that none of these arguments come close to explaining how Joseph Smith could have produced the Book of Mormon without divine intervention and/or incredible genius. Critics point out his later mistakes, but that kindof strengthens the case for the Book of Mormon, because, as we see with most other authors, you expect their later work to be better than their early work. If we limit ourselves to talking about where Joseph Smith was intellectually and spiritually in 1829, it just doesn't add up to believe that he produced the book using strategy, deception, and/or brainpower. So I think the genius vs. prophet framework is really the only one that stands up to the evidence.
Thanks, that is an interesting examination.
This is fantastic
Thank you so much for this video
This reminds me of that line from jimmy neutron Carl: "never argue with the data."
Its dope to see joseph up their with tolkien two of my favorite authors. Tolkien, and the author and finisher of my faith. Imagine what god could of done at 64 with Joseph! 🤯
Tolkien did several rewrites to bring his stories into one narrative. Also, his Silmarillion has some similarities to LDS doctrine about the pre-mortal life.
When I see a headline like this I don’t watch because I don’t know if they are against or Love the Church but their actually right that Smith didn’t write the book but he did translate it. The evidence is out out there & it's amazing what I found.
Is it all fictitious?
@Just the truth People nope. Found it to be true.
The Jesus that you accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@@brettpinion4233 I’m not a “Mormon” but I have read the Book of Mormon to learn about the Ancient Americans. I’ve seen shows on the History Channel that uses the BoM as a guide to help understand the history of America if it be true or not but it’s up to all of us to believe what we want. I do believe it contains history from what I’ve researched online & I didn’t Google “is the Book of Mormon true.” There’s two different sides to that & I want to know for myself. I don’t want to pray about the BoM when the Missionaries knock on my door telling me I should. I want actual proof first if it dose contain the history of the Ancient Americans. I Google “Ancient America History” & it’s amazing what I have found after reading the BoM. What puzzles me is why doesn’t the Mormon Church speak up that’s proof of the BoM? I asked some of my neighbors who are Mormons & they told me in years past they would but some people didn’t want the History of America to be rewritten or accept the BoM that a group of them would go destroy these artifacts. They don’t what them artifacts to be destroyed & they keep quite about it. I seen a cave that was recently discovered with carvings on rocks of the stories from the BoM. Where some archaeologists say these are very old but don’t know what the carvings represent. It matches up to what I have read in the Book of Mormon. I could go on an on of other things I’ve found but dose that make the Mormon Church to be true? That’s for others to decide for themselves & myself also but I don’t judge them. I do believe God will send us where he wants us to be if we Love & follow Him.
What I always wondered is that it Joseph Smith did write a book as successful as the book of Mormon, why did he never write a sequel?
My thoughts exactly Adam.
When Smith was composing his inspired version of the Bible he utilized Rigdon to help him, when Smith needs a Real estate tract authored to entice the Saints to move to Missouri, again he turns to Rigdon to write it.
Scholars now credit Rigdon for writing most if not all of Lectures on Faith.
When Smith wants to address the Government, he asks Rigdon to draw up the letters.
If Smith was the author of the BOM, why does he need Rigdon to speak and write for him? Did Smith author works before the BOM no, how about after? Did he often quote from the BOM? No, but Pratt and Rigdon did.
Rigdon helped Alexander Campbell compose & author several Christian publications & tracts and may have helped Campbell with his own version of The New Testament ‘The Living Oracles.’ There’s evidence Rigdon helped Author the Third Epistle of Peter, before the 1830 BOM.
Rigdon was well prepared to help author the BOM and Rigdon went on to Author over 200 revelations from 1856-1876 known as the Stephen Post Collection.
I have about a dozen more examples all leading to Rigdon, Pratt and possibly Cowdery.
They truly were days not to be forgotten!
He gave us two other book. The Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.
@@toryduke200067 that's not really the same thing. The book of Mormon was much more complex and had a story line. D&C was a compilation of visions, PofGP is a retranslation of other document and the bible, but mostly based on the Bible.
@@adamslater7486 my answer was not ment to be serious as the question we started with was not a serious question. Because obviously if you have read the book of Mormon you would know how complex it is. So to ask a question is why was there never a sequel then clearly you had not read the book of Mormon. The question is a stupid question and not really a serious one is meant to poke fun at The book of Mormon and the church itself.
Bringing forth those stories of the ancient people did light a fire in Joseph to learn more about the past and its peoples. He became super interested in artifacts and documents. The book of Abraham, to me, is God's statement to us that He doesn't need to show us archaeological proof, but can always reveal His words to us. It is not a literal translation of the papyri that came into Joseph's hands, but God's revelation came to him with an ancient object nearby as He sought to gain knowledge from the Lord. I feel like the temple ceremony must have been revealed to Joseph in a similar way after he witnessed the Masonic ceremony. The critics would undoubtedly attempt to destroy the Book of Mormon if the Lord hadn't taken the golden plates from the earth. The same happened with the proposed papyri of the book of Abraham (even though I believe that the actual document the Book of Abraham came from was destroyed in a fire). If you still have doubts, next look into the book of Enoch. Not only are there MULTIPLE current archaeological sources that verify the accuracy of Joseph's translation, but they would not have been accessible to Joseph during his life. Amazing!!
I love the Book of Mormon!
@@thebenplatt To which version of myself do you address your question?
@@thebenplatt I love the Book of Mormon that I have been reading in English since I was a kid. I also enjoy the Spanish version.
@@thebenplatt 😅
@@thebenplatt what do you mean ?? I think you are referring to the validity / truest version ?
@@thebenplatt okay , I get you. 9 versions was shocking to me too. I don’t think the question you are asking is hard to answer either.
We always focus on Joseph. What about Mormon and Moroni? Was the extraordinary or miraculous effort of Mormon one that took years? Was his effort "by the gift and power of God" too. Did the Spirit or Urim and Thummim tell him which pile of plates or record to go to... and then the specific place in the record... and then what words to put on the plates? Or... like the translation of the Book of Mormon may be a Divine Dictation communicated through the Urim and Thummim... was it the same for Mormon?
Great point, I'd like to see some literary analysis of the original authors assuming that the Book of Mormon is in fact a translation. Some of this work has been produced in The Interpreter journal.
I agree with Brian's point. And I have said for over 30 years that it's easier for me to believe Joseph Smith as a prophet. Then he actually wrote it because that would take a super knowledge. When I was in my mission back in 1988 we had a guy who finally admitted that some 20 years ago he had been challenged by the the elders meaning the missionaries that he wouldn't be able to write a book of Mormon. Well he took that to heart. And it's spent those 20 years trying to write his book of Mormon. He showed it to us and some of the book titles. 1st zarahemla and 2nd zarahemla were some of the books. Then he said I was in it. Not sure if that was good or bad but I still remember it to this day so people have tried. I have one first hand account.
What about the special lenses or spectacles he was supposed to have used that enabled him to translate the Egyptian writings?
Great question Rosalind! We have a video on that exact topic. You can watch it here: ruclips.net/video/DB_cVvqA0uY/видео.html
The Bible refers to them as the urim and thummim. Might not be spelled correctly, not words I write often:)
I don’t think anyone, or any group of persons, could have written the Book of Mormon, in 1829. Not enough was known about the Americas and Arabian peninsula in 1829. In addition, I don’t believe any person or group of person would have written it. In 1830, when it was published, critics pointed out over 200 anachronisms, most of which have been proven to not be anachronistic at all.
"Doubtfulness" is the first step towards "knowing for sure".
Please, may I encourage all of us latter-day saints to use the fuller title of The Book of Mormon, The Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ? I think just like Pres. Nelson's recent correction in use of the name of the church, the same would be good-door/heart-opening, Spirit-testifying good-to include use of this fuller title of the book! We are eternally blessed to have the Old, or original, Testament of Christ; the New Testament, or witness; Another Testament in the Book of Mormon; and yet others with living prophets and apostles!
Great suggestion. The more we can speak of Christ the better, especially talking about the Book of Mormon - Another Testament of Jesus Christ. 👍
Why is it so hard to just take Joseph Smith at his word? Especially after almost two centuries of trying to find some alternative. If we believe in the miracles of prophets and Christ in the Bible... the miracle of the Book of Mormon translation should not be that hard to believe. So many seem to be caught in the same spirit as the Pharisees... with God Himself standing in front of them and they cannot see Him or believe Him... because of the traditions and beliefs of their culture and "education."
The Jesus that you accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@@brettpinion4233oh my gosh... really? Still copying and pasting?
Because it is provably false. WHY DO LDS REJECT GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE GOD OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
Brian is a stallion!
Indeed. I know him he is a fantastic guy.
Joseph Smith’s Bible translation shows on some level that he did have the ability to produce a book like the BOM, but still, the scriptures brought by Joseph Smith are very complex and fascinating
Imagine the conversations we'd be having today if God would've chosen a very intellectual person to do the job, how stubborn an educated man would've been. God chooses the humble.
One of the confusing stories that really makes you wonder about Joseph Smith is in relation to the Word of Wisdom. It's said before Joseph Smith died, he was drinking wine with one of the guards. He was also known for drinking beer, owned a brewery, and even after he'd been given the Word of Wisdom, was said to have drunken Whiskey, so God gave him the fear of God with everything so why Joseph Smith didn't immediately take on the Word of Wisdom knowing what he knew and with his enlightenment didn't comply with and stay immediately with that, he still lived as a man. But, the confusing point to that is, if stories are true, that Joseph apparently knew that and lived that from a young age when surgery was being done on his leg, he was offered alcohol and REFUSED IT. Why does Joseph refuse alcohol as a minor but adopt it into his diet later?
I would say he probably didn't have much experience with alcohol at the time of his surgery; I don't think it had much to do with the word of wisdom. I think it very unlikely he really understood how much pain he would have to endure with that surgery. Unfortunately, in church culture, this event has been used as a testament for the word of wisdom, which I think can be misleading since there was no word of wisdom revelation at that time. Also, the word of wisdom has evolved over time. It was not initially an all out ban on the substances mentioned, but a recommendation for moderation in all things. It was later prophets who eventually recommended full abstinence. It is reading about little things like this that strengthen my testimony about the constantly evolving nature of the church.
What makes you so sure those accounts are true? Why not question those accounts instead of automatically believing anything you hear about him that's negative? Just a thought
The explanation is actually pretty simple. The Word of Wisdom was originally treated as just that. In fact, the first few verses say, "A word of wisdom for the benefit of...the saints in Zion--To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God...Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and weakest of all saints." Brigham Young also drank, occasionally smoked, and chewed tobacco according to what I've read. I believe it was Heber J. Grant that made compliance with the Word of Wisdom a requirement to enter the temple.
Joseph also wrote in th Word of Wisdom that 'every herb is good for th use of man'. Mary Jane is SO much better than alcohol...why aren't Mormons more accepting of smokin bud? Who wldn't enjoy th discussions more if Elder Cheech and Elder Chong showed up at ur door? It wld be a TOTALLY difrnt world... Sharing th Gospel wld bring us much more joy...but wld also hv a downside...MUNCHIES! THAT'S how I wld hv done it...but I realize also that God works in mysterious ways. Sacrament meeting wld be A LOT MORE interesting...but i guess that's just MY opinion...😏🥹
Asking who wrote the Book of Mormon is a fair question that our critics can't answer. Oliver Cowdery didn't write it as out was already a work in progress when he got involved. Sidney Rigdon didn't write it as it was already published by the time he was converted. In fact, when the first read it he slammed the book down and said he didn't believe a word of it! He was a close associate of Alexander Campbell. Campbell formulated the doctrine and Rigdon orated it. Losing Rigdon was a blow to Campbell, who became a bitter enemy and critic of the Church.
All of Smith's confidants have been examined and their writing styles analyzed; and none of them got even close. Even if Smith got the transcript from someone else, he would have had to memorize it and recite it while looking into his hat! And, by the way, he always started reading just where he left off, without having any part of it read back to him.
The question is, if Smith was a con man, why even bother with a Book of Mormon? Why didn't he just pretend to have the visitations of John the Baptist; Peter, James and John, Elijah, Moses and others? Bringing in the Book of Mormon was an unnecessary gambit. Why take the chance of being found out and exposed?
It makes no sense. Besides, writing a story about Jerusalem in 600 B.C. also carries a great deal of risk. What if he makes a mistake? If he snags on one tiny detail, it's all over. So yes, it's the critic's next move, and has been for nearly 200 years.
P.S. -- Another potential problem for Smith if he was a con man; if later generations checked Lehi's trek across the Arabian Peninsula, there would be a chance of being found out. As it is, LDS archaeologists followed Lehi's path and guess what they found? Everything Nephi described checks out to the smallest, most minute detail. How in the world did he manage to check that out if he was a con man? Critics don't understand that Mormons don't want to be deceived any more than non-Mormons. If Smith's story was found to be a concoction, why would we want to stay with it? I'd be the first to bail if were found to be a deception. (So would our entire apologetics arm.)
Thanks for this comment
I read the Book of Mormon 13 times in 2 years. Also, there is now way Joseph Smith Jr. wrote the Book of Mormon. There are many different authors within the text,
I'm an author, and actually taking part in the process of writing fiction gives an irreplaceable gnosis of what is required to produce finished texts. Details are crucial, and the foremost detail which should never be discarded (but which detractors discard at every opportunity) is the actual Book of Mormon text: what it says, and how - and what it does.
I'm aware that there are a very few authors who are able to compose passages word-perfect in their minds before setting them down. But to assert that such an ability could have produced the Book of Mormon is hand-waving, refusing to fully account for the text as it is, and the difficulty of composition, balanced against all the activities and stresses and technological limitations Joseph faced.
Joseph's "amusing recitals" can't account for the Book of Mormon as it is: if they really were a warm-up for his composition of the book, we should expect a much more romantic and sensationalistic text than what we have.
I've long been satisfied that the Book of Mormon cannot have come from Joseph Smith's *ego.* The remaining possibilities are all variations of the theme that he got it from a source outside his ego. I don't expect to see an honest and thorough attempt to explain naturalistically how Joseph could have produced through something like automatic writing, not just _a book_ but the actual text of the Book of Mormon.
Reposting from a reply to a specific comment chain:
I come to these final conclusions:
(1) I know by many witnesses of the Holy Ghost over decades of time and several hundred reading and study sessions that the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a true record. It is a strong, clear, faithful witness of Christ that leads one closer to Him as one follows its precepts.
(2) I am convinced that God, who is wiser and smarter than us all, has deliberately arranged the coming forth of the Book of Mormon so that it cannot and won't be proven true to the majority of those approaching its veracity secularly. (Oh yes, I think He will absolutely prove it, and all divine truths, in coming days of judgments!) Always leaving secular reasons to doubt, disbelieve and dismiss. Why? Because coming to God and Jesus in this life has always and only been done through test and proof of faith, seeded by willful choice to believe or desire to believe.
(3) Because of (2) above, we can stop worrying about worldly opinions of the Book of Mormon and, for that matter, the Bible, God, Jesus and all divine truths. And we can go back to (1)-do I believe in Christ and does the Book of Mormon lead me closer to Him?
Now, please stop debating, and just read the book according to Moroni 10:3-5...and let God bless your life for it!
Well, Joseph Smith did not write the book of Mormon, he translated it from the plates guided by the Compass giving to him by the angel.
Absolute goosebumps
The problem with this type of apologetics is that it rests upon the assumption that Joseph was the singular author of the Book of Mormon and that testimony of the "translation" process is accurate. If there were multiple authors all working together, then this type of argument quickly falls apart. We certainly know there were several people who helped "translate" the book, so the idea of multiple authors makes sense.
My favorite "evidence" of The Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ is that it clearly and consistently teaches and testifies of Jesus Christ and of His doctrines, resoundingly showing us how and inviting us to get closer to Him. By following its precepts, I get closer to Jesus Christ. Critics seem to ignore this part of knowing the truth of the book by its fruit, getting endlessly lost in secondary considerations.
Also, I join with now +tens+ of millions of others since 1830 to witness that I know by the power of the Holy Ghost, revealed uniquely to me (same as can be to any honest reader and seeker of truth, per Moroni 10:3-5), that the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a true book and gift of God to all who accept it!
The Jesus that you accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@brettpinion4233 I see you copied and pasted this again.
To save you trouble, the Jesus is the Jesus in the New Testament that LDS believe. Therr is not another. To be more clear, He is the one who organized his church with apostles and prophet'sfound in the Bible with proper authorty, not the post Nicene Creed and other creeds and Reformations that branches of Christianity took off and confused the nature of God, ordinances and covenants even and the fulness of the Gospel lost. The Church of Jesus Christ believes in the New Testament Jesus and really the Restoration is a New Testament Christianity; Jesus Christ's church restored in these latter days in its fulness.
BOM is provably false. The "history" it speaks of is fiction. If it was true we would find evidence of the people groups, cities and temples it speaks of. They do not exist. God gave us reason to use. We are not God nor will we ever be a God. The BOM is much like an anti-bible.
Seek and you will find. God bless.
WHY DO LDS REJECT GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE GOD OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
within mohawk new york library there was a book that told it was an old man that wrote children stories ΑΩ
Supposition and accusations do not cut it. You can look at the original writings. It was done on a day-to-day basis, with some of the editing being sometimes misspelled or punctuation slightly a mess, if anything The Book of Mormon is overly punctuated. But the fact that the archaeological record shows that it's actually true actually have evidence of this now throws a monkey wrench into your theory that Not only was it copy or somebody else wrote it. It is even more of a surety that it is exactly as it was presented. But I've only been studying this for about 40 plus years before I can say this with absolute assurity. Truth is a hell lot stronger than faith.
Course there's a gap between whether or not Joseph Smith could have dictated a 500 plus page book with no particular errors in chronology or mixing of people's rolls and such because he didn't claim that it was merely a story. Nobody has that ability to dictate within two-and-a-half months such a thing. It's not a human capability! That's the whole point of the damn book in the first place.
Wonky stories cannot take away the beliefs of the faithful. Even the gates of hell itself cannot dictate to the goodness of Our Saviour Jesus Christ. We love the Lord, we praise the Lord and if necessary we die for our Lord! True evidence that Joseph was guided in every step of the way!
23:00 Any Jane Austen novel is far more complex and layered and profound than the Book of Mormon.
We know he didn’t write it. He translated it
it's hard to conclude if you didn't witness or see the actual scenario. There's no such 100% exact conclusion on the process of the book of Mormon translation. To those non believers you can say it's a fraud, but to those believers we can say it is through the power of God. anyway in the millennium all things will reveal.
The power of Satan.
Proves that he interpreted the book and did not compose it.
According to Joseph Smith, the angel Moroni told him about the existence of the BoM in 1823 when Joseph was 17. Smith did not dig up the plates until 1827 and he began translating them in 1828. That gave Joseph several years to develop an outline and write the book before he began the "translation" charade.
There is no evidence that Joseph preplanned the BoM. You can propose that but you can't defend it with evidence. It isn't congruent with other things we know about those years, or the writing/translating period.
Nice try:)
@@Kristy_not_kristine That’s a new one lol
Google Word Print Studies Of The Book of Mormon FAIR.
Interesting comment! (I guess you would think someone in his family would have know about it or seen him doing that in those years) and then said something? (or any witnesses or alibyes) However He'd also have to make the plates to and then show them to everyone else (plus an angel - with the 3 witnesses) - none of whom recanted, even when they left the church.
Through the power of the Holy Ghost Heavenly Father helped Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon as he did when David the little shepherd boy slayed Goliath with a single stone with a whole army surrounding him when Moses parted the Red Sea “With God nothing’s impossible “
My view is that even if Joseph Smith "just" was genius enough to compose the Book of Mormon, maybe that makes it worth taking seriously anyway. I think its the greatest work of literature produced in America, at least in the 19th century, and probably ever.
The Jesus that you had accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@@brettpinion4233 There are many ways to interpret the Jesus of the bible, thence all the christological controversies of the early church. But it's ok, we can disagree.
@@nathangale7702 Out of love for you I pray you examine the evidence. Satan told Adam and Eve they could be like God even before joseph smith repeated this lie. There is no other way to interpret the bible if you study it and research it. I pray you do not reject it.
If we begin by asking about the number of deities in the LDS belief system, their founder, Joseph Smith, said the following:
“I will preach on the plurality of Gods.… I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.” (Teachings of the Prophet Jose“We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.” (Joseph Smith, King Follet Discourse)
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” (Joseph Smith, King Follet Discourse)[5]
If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church.
Again, Isaiah explains that God alone created the universe.
“I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself and spreading out the earth all alone.” (Isa. 44:24)
And God created the universe, not from organizing a substance that predates even him, but by bringing everything into existence with a word.
“By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.” (Hebrews 11:3)[8]
God can create out of nothing because he, himself, is uncreated. He can establish time because he alone is timeless. He formed mankind from the dust of the earth, formed the spirit within him, and placed on him the fingerprint of the image of God, because God, himself, is not like man.
“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting you are God.” (Psalm 90:2)
“These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.” (Psalm 50:21)
Those are really weird glasses.
Love it when the apologists appeal to Joe Smith’s deficient intellect as an explanation for why he couldn’t have written/dictated the BOM
Hi Jeff H .. what do you think life is all about? Why do you believe we are here on this spinning blue planet? I had polio when I was two years old. I have the great onner of getting around with two full leg braces and crutches. My good wife and I have 9 children now . I run a auction business along with other businesses. God has been so good to me. I am so happy. I chose to come to earth to get a body. The essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome. A baby can grow up and become an adult.we can grow up and become more like our heavenly parents are . Tell me are you being grateful. Are you being happy. Are you making Wise choses? Tell me what you are thinking. K and thanks
JS never claimed to write the BOM. He claimed to devinely translate a record that began with a prophet in Israel in about 600 bc and ended in about 420 ad. Your logic only ads to his validity. Your arguments only proove the books validity. In your attempt to disproove - you only proove it correct. Good job.
Harry Potter did it!
With a wrench in the cellar?
No, no, candlestick in the great hall.
My leaning is that Joseph wrote the whole thing, maybe with help but that's too risky. Placing a few pages into his hat with the stone he then dictated to the scribe. Could have very well had punctuation in his finished version too. This theory also means he had all the time in the world to have written the full story. Listening to the analysis of Joseph's techniques/methods in this video to me is akin to listening to two guys analyze where the rabbit went when the magician waved his wand, what the rabbit experienced, and then the passage the rabbit took to return to the hat. I'm sorry, but I feel that we've been duped by Joseph. When I finished reading the book I felt like the book was in the pattern of a football game or roller coaster. The word "contention" appears almost as much as "and it came to pass". I'm still amazed that the 1830 version contains even more "and it came to pass" occurrences. Shoulda pulled out many more for the current version in my opinion. Two families that see-saw back and forth between getting along and not getting along. Lucky for the writer that the stars of the book stick to just those two familes as they battle and don't battle. All then with a countdown to Jesus' coming. So, if you were to say you wanted Jesus to arrive after 30 chapters you just do the math and work backwards.
No Joseph Smith did not write the book of Mormon. He talransilated it .it was written by meny diferant prophets that lived on this side of the world. God did have some of His children here on this side of the world. What do you think life is all about.? Why do you think we are here on this spinning blue planet? .Do you think that we are more than a physical body? If so where do you think our spirit come from. Why can't people learn and know that the essence or purposes of life is growth and to become and to overcome...people can say that Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon but I know that it was written by meny diferant true prophets of God and was translated by the great prophet Joseph Smith..
Duped by Joseph Smith. Do you think that we were duped by Jesus Christ. Do you think we were Duped by Mosus or peter james john or any of Gods true prophets. What in the world are you thinking.? You remind me of a child who does not want to grow up and be responsible to the growing up processes of true parenthood adulthood. A child would reather find fault look for excuses reather than looking for the good and being responsible. If God our Heavenly Father had prophet's around Jerusalem why would not He have some on this side of the world like Mormon Alma Nephi Abenidi Mosiah lehi and meney others? Come on let's grow up and look at the paterans of how God deales with us His children here on earth. I know that Jesus is Lord the savior of the whole world. I know that every since this spinning blue planet was created and all the worlds of our Heavenly Father anytime we as real children of real Heavenly parents have desired to want to grow up and become more like God our Heavenly Father has always called true living prophets teachers . . What are you trying to believe? Why do you think we are here on this spinning blue planet.? Tell me of how smart you are.
@@ronbrewer3493 Clearly some are 100% certain the magician has split the woman in two and the rabbit wasn’t in the hat but is now. I know Joseph Smith has made many toss aside the Bible but he didn’t make me forget how differently apostles behaved in jail and how he did. What would you say is the greatest reason to believe the charlatan Smith?
@@ronbrewer3493 Call me Doubting Thomas but the God of the Bible that I know is reminding me to read Galatians 1:8 again. My mind is open to LDS but as an investigator my investigation isn’t going as you may have hoped.
It is ok to be a doubting Thomas but it is also very important to keep your mind open to new light and truth. I love the scripture in Galatians 1: 6 here is another one or two or three you can look at .1 Timothy 1 ; 3 and 2 Corinthians 11 : 4 . Then after you read those read this one .by john the revelator Rev 14 ; 6 .. Then ask yourself what is another gospel. Is all the 80,000 Christian churches teaching the same gospel?? Do you think that some of them are for removed from who we are as real children of real Heavenly parents. True prophets have always brought new light and truth to the world. It is mans weaknesses that keep us from God. One Lord one faith and one Baptizen. Do you believe in Lord Jesus.? Are you a Christian that believes in christ as the only begotten of the Father.? DO you believe the holy bible and do you know what it is ? Talk to me .
Joseph Smith was a genius but not educated. The Lord got him before formal education could ruin him.
Rough drafts usually are longer than edited works. We know the Book of Mormon is very wordy. It’s not fair to compare the edited versions of novels to the Book of Mormon for length. We should be comparing the rough drafts of those novels to the length of the Book of Mormon. Or we could have an author who knows what they’re doing go through the editing process with the Book of Mormon and see how long it ends up being.
Another unfair comparison is the amount of time to write the novels versus the Book of Mormon. For the Book of Mormon you count only the days where words are being put on paper, and when talking about people’s novels, you count all the days where they did no writing at all and all the days where editing is done.
So let’s find out how many days (or even hours since there are accounts of how many hours Joseph spent per day translating) these novelists spent putting words on paper for their rough drafts, and how many words those rough drafts were. Otherwise these comparisons are meaningless and deceptive.
The pitiful words and thinking of man versus THE AWESOME POWER OF GOD. Joseph TRANSLATED the Book Of Mormon. .
Its just simple and easier to just read the Book of Mormon-Another Testament of Jesus Christ and believe it was revealed to and translated by Jospeh Smith than take a lifetime of being skeptical, finding anything to discredit it and find fault or prove it wrong.
The bible is clear God does not change. Yet the BOM god does change and evolve. Nor is their any other God yet BOM teaches endless Gods. BOM is provably false. Research and common sense will show this to you if you desire truth. God bless.
WHY DO LDS REJECT GOD OF BIBLE & BELIEVE IN FALSE GOD OF Joseph Smith?
ISN'T YOUR ETERNITY WORTH EXAMINING THE TRUTH?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
Im sorry to the detractors but there is nothing in this world that can convince me that the Book of Mormon is false. I believe it to be exactly what it says it is, an ancient record translated (or revealed) by the gift and power of God! Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God!
Sorry Mormons, "feeling it it your bosom" isn't a replacement for truth. Cognitive dissonance through dissociation describes the way a mormon is modeled (conditioned) to think. Want to make your way out of LDS trappings? Then you must have the personal courage to seriously consider saving your soul over what your fellow mormons think and/or risk being ostracized with respect to mormon business ties. Me? I'll choose my soul over the aforementioned 10/10 times...
The BoM has to be the most remarkable book in the modern day. Compiled by a fairly uneducated man in terms of 'education'. The goings-on with him directly, and in the background were near tumultuous.
The changes that occurred after JS produced the BoM, and the skullduggery, and various plots that were extant, beggared belief.
Anyway, JS was assassinated, and that was the day the restored gospel died on the planet.
The church should be called the Church of Brigham Young because since that time, the language, the theology, and theme of the church did an about face. And it's curious how not one member of JS's family 'went west'.
BY virtually appointed himself president. He went on a GOP campaign, and by virtue of his considerable intelligence, adroitness, and stamina, he succeeded in his goal. And ever since then, power, and property has been the church's goal and direction.
PAY ATTENTION: The church was fined $5 million by the IRS for not declaring $46BILLION. Not to mention the fact the other $64BILLION WAS OK.
Yet, now, the church appears to be an avaricious, aggressive property and wealth machine. A corporation using the name of Jesus as their shopfront.
The number of people who live in egregious poverty in the likes of Smoky Mountain outside Manila, and in the favelas in Rio, and Sao Paulo (is beyond the pale), are encouraged to pay their tithing so they can be 'blessed'....please excuse while I go to the bathroom and vomit!
At one stage whilst living in Canberra, I had not budgeted well, and needed to pay a fairly hefty power bill for me and three of my children still living with me. I requested church assistance. I never even got a reply. I had to go to another church and ask for help. They visited the very next morning. Provided me with the power bill payment, some food, and extra cash.
"The church" views everything from the perspective of the dollar; but also 'policies, practices, and procedures'. It's easy to get forgiveness in the church, than it is to get permission.
I left the church, 'officially' because I didn't want to be associated with a gaggle of religious imposters.
But as to Joseph Smith (and his stella contribution), all the people who slag and sledge him, just need to remember, that they would have to go home and stand on their daddy's shoulders to kiss his arse!
The Jesus that you accepted as Mormons, is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus of the Bible is literally God Almighty who became a man to redeem us (Isa. 7:14; 9:6). He created everything including Lucifer (Col. 1:16) and He is not a brother of human spirits nor a brother of Lucifer. He is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. His salvation is a Gift so no one can boast of earning it (Eph. 2:8-9). But one must know Him first as John 17:3 says.
We can also see that there is no second chance (for the dead), since Jesus said in Luke 16:26, when speaking about the rich man and Lazarus, both of whom had died, “that there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us….” That means no missionary work on the other side. They cannot pass across that gulf. Hebrews 9:27 says: “…it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement.” After death comes judgement, not a second chance. Psalms 49:7 says also “…None of them can by any means redeem his brother, or give to God a ransom for him.” Nothing we can do, after someone is dead, will help them.
But the Bible says that we should “…exhort one another daily, while it is called Today…Today if you will hear his voice, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS…” (Hebrews 3:13, 15). Give yourself at least the possibility to see the truth by doing some checking. If the LDS Church is the truth, you should not fear to investigate. The truth will not change. Only lies have to be protected and hidden.
Here is presented to you some samples of studies in the History of the LDS Church, its doctrines and claims. Study them and see if they are true.
@@brettpinion4233 Well, anyone who would 'believe' all that's in the Bible, would believe in Father Christmas and Easter Bunny. You alleged christians talk about not hardening one's heart' and all the while you lot are busy thumping the bible and lecturing other on how they should live their lives.
The Bible looks, and reads, like it was written with a straw broom dipped in tar, and edited with a chainsaw. Much of the NT was written 30 & 80 years after Christ.
He didn't bring 'religion'. But people like you are addicted that kind of crapola!
the book of mormon is true, even if it hurts, it bothers them, they get angry, hate and yell...those emotions are negative and they are not good. ....God didn't make it so difficult even have common sense, ...an easy test write a book with the fastest computer and we'll see if it's easy or not..
then why is it provably false as seen below?
NO truth: Book of Abraham published with 3 facsimiles taken from an ancient papyrus. The book is a funerary papyrus showing scenes from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. In Facsimiles Nos. 1 & 3, Smith misidentifies everything depicted. "LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham" Quote from LDS OFFICIAL WEB PAGE
NO trace of the “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2), with iron, brass, breast-plates, shields, and armor. It would be impossible for these millions of dead warriors in armor to leave no trace.
NO trace of the great city Zarahemla- it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla (Alma 5:2; D&C 125:3) to leave no trace.
NO trace of Jewish dna found in any Indian burial ground anywhere in the Americas from time period of BOM. Thomas W. Murphy, (Mormon scholar, DNA researcher):“We are in a dilemma, the genetic evidence shows that American Indians are not Hebrews, they are not Israelites. The Book of Mormon is not true.” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 2005
NO temple like Solomon's described in 2 Nephi 5:16 has ever been found yet biblical temple is easily seen in Jerusalem. If the temple Nephi describes ever existed it could not disappear.
NO Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings ever found anywhere as it is not a real language anywhere in the world.
NO cities mentioned in the BOM have ever been located (none of 38) anywhere. It would be impossible for them to disappear unless they never existed.
NO evidence: "The whole land was covered with buildings, and the people were as numerous, as it were the sand of the sea." Yet not one ever located. (Mormon 1:7) IMPOSSIBLE for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) & MILLIONS of people to have vanished.
The BOM speaks of sheep, swine, silk, wool clothing & elephants existing in the Americas when they did not. 1 Ne.13:7; Alma 4:6; Ether 9:17 and 10:24 These were brought to America centuries later by Europeans.
NO wheat, no goats, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no steel swords, no cattle, no chariot parts, no brass (Mosiah 8:10) no evidence of the listed Kings in BOM, no Jewish relics or Jewish Temples from supposed Jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly used, no middle eastern seeds growing, "which were brought from the land of Jerusalem ... and grew exceedingly" 1 Nephi 18:24
There is NO archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, botanical or dna evidence to support the Book of Mormon. LDS anthropologist Dee Green: “The first myth we need to eliminate is that BOM archaeology exists” conceding 20 years of research “left us empty-handed” (Green 1969 p. 77)
CAN WE IGNORE THE LACK OF EVIDENCE FOR THE THE BOOK OF MORMON AND JUST TRUST OUR HEARTS AS TO THE TRUTH OF IT EVEN THOUGH IT CONFLICTS WITH THE BIBLE? NO!
D&C Section 9:8-9 - tell us that if something is true it will make our "bosom burn" and we will FEEL that it is right. Maroni 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you"
The Bible warns us against this subjective type of truth test. Why? Because we have a sinful nature that can be deceived. Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusts in his own (bosom) heart is a FOOL."
The Scriptures, however, are infallible and can never be wrong (John 17:17; Psalm 119:128; 33:4; 19:8; Romans 3:4).
This is why the Bible frequently urges us to study and meditate on God's word. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV "STUDY ... rightly dividing the word of TRUTH." Acts 17:11 "EXAMINE THE SCRIPTURES to see if what said is TRUE". 1John 4:1 says: "BELIEVE NOT EVERY SPIRIT, ... because MANY FALSE PROPHETS have gone out into the world."
Mormonism claims the bible was corrupted to justify Joseph Smith's changing of the biblical, eternal God into an evolving, created god, who is not all powerful and is one of an endless number of gods . However, this is a PROVABLY FALSE claim.
The Claim: In the BOM, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed after the 12 apostles and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this is the Catholic Church formed in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine the Bible & BOM.
BIBLE: The Dead Sea Scrolls have been dated to as early as 350 BC. One is the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known copy of the Book of Isaiah dated to 180 BC.
Do ANY ancient scrolls show Smith's "uncorrupted" version of scripture? NO! Yet they would if the scripture was later corrupted after the 12 apostles died as Smith and Nephi said.
Also, if they had been corrupted, Jesus would have corrected scripture instead of affirming it! Jesus sd:“ I told you EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses, the Books of the Prophets, and in the Psalms had to happen.” (Luke 24:44-46)
Scripture is the same today as it was 2,100+ years ago with only minor spelling and punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. These scrolls pre-dated Catholics, and are Jewish scrolls and the BOM says the Jews had the Scriptures in their "purity". 1Nephi 13:25
LDS Apologist Wayne Ham admitted the Isaiah scroll does not support the the BOM. Apologist Dr. Sidney B. Sperry, of BYU, said the Dead Sea Scrolls do not help the case for the BOM. BYU Professor Joseph F. McConkie: "Rather than Joseph Smith as Found in Ancient Manuscripts, it ought be Joseph Smith as Lost in Ancient Manuscripts.” (Religious Studies Center, 1984)
IS THE GOD OF THE BOOK OF MORMON THE SAME ONE AS IN THE BIBLE? NO! In the LDS Church’s 147th Conf., Gen Authority Bernard P. Brockbank said: the Christ followed by Mormons is NOT THE CHRIST followed by traditional Christianity. (Ensign, May 1977 p. 26)
"Before me NO god was formed, nor shall there be ANY after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make this claim, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of LDS members.
Like Joseph Smith, this was the goal of Satan, to be like God and have worshipers. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God ... I will be like the Most High”’ (Isaiah 14:12-14)
The new testament has not been corrupted either. See the book of John. Smith changed it to make Jesus a created being. Research a 1900 year old papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri of the book of John. (written 150 AD, around the Apostle John's time)
John 1:1 "In the BEGINNING was the WORD and the WORD was WITH God and the WORD WAS God." ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ (look up this ancient Greek yourself on google)
John 1:1 Joseph Smith translation: "In the beginning was the GOSPEL preached through the Son. And the GOSPEL was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God." Smith's Jesus is no longer God in the flesh but the biblical Jesus is: "God was manifest in the flesh" 1Tim. 3:16 KJV
There are 4,000 Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. Some go back to 350 AD and NONE support Joseph Smith's claims that the bible of today has been corrupted.
Papyrus fragments exist of the New Testament dated to 175 AD and show that the new testament has NOT been "corrupted". (New Testament Docs: Are They Reliable? Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1967 pp. 15-17)
The manuscript and archeological evidence for the BIBLE is the GREATEST in antiquity. I pray you know the true Jesus and not Joseph Smith's exalted man from another planet who is not eternal, not all powerful, not perfect but evolving, and was polygamous.
God is much greater than the humanoid of Mormonism and NOT just ONE OF AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF EVOLVING GODS.
Jesus said ALL scripture will NOT fade away but "many wolves in sheep's clothing" will come trying to add to the word. Mathew 7:15 Joseph Smith changed Jesus, the Father and taught you can become a GOD.
It hurts my heart to see Mormons fall for the lie that we can become God when there is only one eternal God found in the bible.
"The only men who become Gods, even the sons of Gods are those that enter into polygamy." (Brigham Young) Journal of Discourses 11 p.269
Apostle Orson Pratt, in The Seer, page 172, “the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist…the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many wives, … The son followed the example of his Father"
God gave us critical thinking & logical reasoning for a reason, which is why he does tell us to EXAMINE and TEST what we are being taught for TRUTH. The bible withstands the truth test. Joseph Smith's version fails the truth test. It's your eternity, study it for yourself. God bless.
Booooo
The original Mormons:
Joseph Smith Jr. (December 23, 1805 - June 27, 1844)
a good looking and intelligent young man from a penniless upstate New York family; professional buried treasure hunter.
Oliver H. P. Cowdery (October 3, 1806 - March 3, 1850)
a school teacher who boarded with the Smith family
David Whitmer (January 7, 1805 - January 25, 1888)
farmer; friend of Oliver Cowdery
Martin Harris (May 18, 1783 - July 10, 1875)
prosperous farmer; employer of Joseph Smith Sr.
the Smith family
Joseph Smith Sr. (July 12, 1771 - September 14, 1840)
father of Joseph Smith Jr.
Emma Hale Smith Bidamon (July 10, 1804 - April 30, 1879)
wife of Joseph Smith Jr
Hyrum Smith (February 9, 1800 - June 27, 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr
Samuel Harrison Smith (13 March 1808 - 30 July 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr.
the Whitmer family
Jacob Whitmer (February 2, 1800 - April 21, 1856)
brother of David Whitmer
John Whitmer (August 27, 1802 - July 11, 1878)
brother of David Whitmer
Christian Whitmer (January 18, 1798 - November 27, 1835)
brother of David Whitmer
Peter Whitmer Jr. (September 27, 1809 - September 22, 1836)
brother of David Whitmer
Hiram Page (c. 1800-August 12, 1852)
brother in law of David Whitmer
Apparently after 1826, Joseph Smith Jr realized that his fraudulent treasure hunting career was a failure and he began thinking about a career as a religious leader and false prophet.
In 1829, Smith met poor school teacher Cowdery and they put together a book based on the King James Bible, View of the Hebrews published in 1823 by Ethan Smith (no relation, although he was an acquaintance of Cowdery) and their own imagination. Whitmer and his family joined the conspiracy probably in hope of becoming religious leaders and escaping a hard life of farming. Harris was conned into providing the money.
So basically the foundation of Mormonism was the beauty (Smith) the brains (Cowdery) the money (Harris) and the Whitmers who jumped on the bandwagon. Three very young, 25 year old, men and one middle aged man who paid the bills, along with most of the Smith and Whitmer families, founded Mormonism.
The Book of Mormon went on sale March 26, 1830. The LDS church opened for business in Smith’s home on April 6, 1830.
what a joke of a presentation. yes joseph could’ve most certainly contributed heavily to the creation of the Book of Mormon though it was mostly written by Sydney Rigdon and abridged from the records and manuscripts of Solomon Spaulding. Joseph most likely contributed the most in the first few books of Nephi as there are many parallels between Joseph’s life and the plot of the first book of Nephi. Such as Lehi’s dream mirroring Joseph Smith Sr’s dream, etc.
the least likely narrative is the believing narrative.
That theory was proven false decades ago.
The Book of Mormon had already been published when Sidney Rigdon met Joseph Smith.
And the Spaulding Manuscript had no connection to the Book of Mormon and the Church even published it back in the 19th Century to illustrate that.
Think of something else.
Google Mormon doctrine vs Christian doctrine. You'll see the LDS have scripture together better than the Christians. This is proof that LDS scripture is from above.
Do you have list of references that tie Joseph Smith to reading Spaulding book?
We got two really good examples of Joseph's "translation" capabilities with the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook Plates. He was a fraud.
and the JST which we can prove was plagiarized from Adam Clarke’s commentary of the Bible. The Book of Mormon was plagiarized from “Manuscript, Found” but the LDS and RLDS church bought and destroyed all of the remaining copies
Because of those two examples that had a way of actually being checked and verified and both of them being totally wrong and not even remotely written on the papirus. Takes away any idea that the BOM is even remotely true. Along with Joseph Smith's other deviations from someone who could be classified as honorable. The problems outlined in the CES letter, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, as bad as the slaughter of innocent men, women and children was the accompanying incorporating and then slandering of the Indians, the lies and cover up of the truth. Then our Heavenly Father who is the same today, tomorrow and forevever has according to your prophets changed His mind so many times since the start of the LDS Church, polygamy, race and most recently your stand on same sex marriages among many revelations. The Heavenly Father I serve doesn't adapt to suit the prevailing social culture.
The Egyptologists were debunked, proven stupid.
Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists, how do you respond?
@@richardholmes5676 I don’t. That guy didn’t debunk anything.
The Book of Momon has never been authenticated by historians or archeologists. NOTHING!!
Neither has the Bible. They still debate "who wrote it" and why. Historians and archaeologists have lots of trouble authenticating things that don't fit into the narrative developed within their theoretical views. I fully anticipate that there will be many more records from different cultures around the world at some point, and then we will see even more witnesses of Christ. I personally will accept those with open arms. Can't wait to hear more of the experiences of God's children.
Historians and archeologists are foul able. They are human and can make mistakes. I would not use them as any kind of authority.
Not as a whole, but I find it really interesting how much Joseph Smith got right before such details were available in English such as details of the Arabian peninsula, warfare traditions in America, and outside the Book of Mormon including the book of Enoch
Start watching any RUclips videos on heartland theory or Book of Mormon in North America. Keep in mind that less than 1/10th of 1% of the civilizations in South America have been been excavated.
@@jbailey1898 Have you heard of or read the Book of Jeraneck? Sounds like something you'd be interested in; another testament of Jesus Christ from the Restored Branch of Jesus Christ, formerly the Latter Day Church of Jesus Christ.