Australia's Highway Numbers are a MESS (and here's why)
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- In this episode of Figscape, we have a look at just one of the reasons why Australia's road system is a flawed giant. The way they're marked.
Australia's motorways and highways traverse the entire nation, from cities such as Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, the Gold Coast and Hobart and Canberra, to rural places like Cairns, the Whitsunday Islands, Toowoomba, Alice Springs, Broken Hill and more. They connect this country, but they're far from perfect.
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The intro song, "Shaft" is by Barely Musical, a.k.a. Barely Sociable.
Listen to it here: • Video
All remaining music is from the Streambeats Lo-Fi collection, which can be found here: www.streambeat...
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Videos used:
David Blackwelll: • Brisbane City Intersec...
Finbar Tilderhaven/The Traveling Sebrings: • Video
Toowoomba Region: • Transport & logistics ...
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With thanks to:
@BarelyMusical
David Blackwell
Finbar Tilderhaven
Google Earth Studio
Google Streetview
Toowoomba Region
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Made with assets used under license from Envato Elements, Pexels and Pixabay.
Fig Academy 2021
Because, .... Queensland
The M1 from Coolangatta to Brisbane is nothing but a glorified car park!
@@peterbest4943 yep they just keep moving the problem south. There is no alternative route either so one accident the whole thing stops.
@@peterbest4943 And from Nudgee to Dohles Rocks.
@@graemewilson1400 Should build another tilt train line that's convenient to use
please keep making videos about Australian infrastructure, I'm a huge fan :)
Many thanks for your kind words :)
- Fig
You shouldn't be cause it's so outdated, I know this because I live near the Bruce and travel on it constantly
@@Figscape Keep
The only thing that annoys me is driving round Perth the Sat Nav tries to tell me "turn left on to state route 37 national route 82". Literarily no one in the whole state knows what either of those mean, just say Great Eastern or Reid or whatever.
do you still get lost in Perth?
@@roadtrain5910 I don't think I ever have.
The point is sat nav call roads by numbers no one has ever heard of rather than names people actually use.
"round Perth the Sat Nav tries to tell me - turn left on to state route 37"
Yeah, the Satnav in Qld mostly says exactly what you see on the Sign - at the Gold Coast it will say "turn left to Broadbeach" and the sign will have Broadbeach and a left-arrow : yeap, easy to follow.
It's because the software is using what is actually written on the sign, because all signs are in the national-database - thats how your GPS nags you about the speed-limit - database says speed drops to 60, GPS nags.
I use Here Maps, but they mostly have the same data from the gov't.
Yeah I remember here in New Zealand most people referred to the actual names e.g. North Western Motorway, Upper Harbour Highway, etc. Now what I do find now is that more and more people are now referring to their shield numbers since the introduction of GPS navigation systems. Now I would say "Yeah take the 20 and go West on 16 and connect on the 18" however you still hear the motorway names still used on the radio.
Thought this was going to be about how are roads are actually chaotic mess, with barely any straight roads.
the cities of course. i know everywhere else is straight line roads
Oh that is definitely a potential topic in the future, if there's interest. The way our cities urban design has developed over the years. Although, it must be said, even in chaos there's order - you'll often find cities with gridded roads, even if its not first apparent.
I am considering extending this video into a series, in fact the original script said as much, but then had second thoughts. There's arguably a lot to talk about when it comes to Australia's roads as well. From various major projects, toll roads as well as of course the poor quality surfaces and signage outside of cities. And that's before looking at the gridlocked pandemonium of peak hour in any of our cities or large towns.
Regardless, thanks for watching, I hope you enjoyed even if it wasn't quite what you expected.
- Fig
next video the spilled spaghetti that is our roads
"this solution requires co-operation and calibration between the states"
Well, there's the end of that idea....
I actually like the green and gold National shield numbers. These signs should be adopted on national routes outside of the city. So like in a city it would still be M1, A1, etc but out of the metropolitan area it should have the national 1 green and gold shield
In 1975 I worked as a dogs body general plant operator on the last dirt section of Hwy joining at the WA/SA border. Pay was low about $150 pw , but it was a great place to work and explore. We enjoyed it . Weekends saw us finding new blow holes to climb into , some quite deep . We`d make a rope ladder with road pegs and down we`d go. Working with the local Aboriginal Hwys Dept boss who new the area well and assisted by our camp pilot ( Cyril the bush pilot) as a spotter .
Video idea: the political/demographic/financial logistical potential of a new Australian state in North QLD?
I just was reccomended this video.
This video is awesome, the editing is great, and whilst a niche topic, you've made it interesting to listen to.
New subscriber from Perth, Australia :)
Many thanks for your kind words! Glad to have you on board! :)
- Fig
In Ireland we have national roads that have the prefix (N) and then a number 1,2,3,4,5 etc. Every number below 50 are designated as primary national roads - these are of the highest quality and most used, connecting cities, ports, ring roads etc. Most of these roads have already been converted into motorway standard - see below, are dual carriageway, 2/1 configurations and grade separated or high quality signal carriage way.
Every national road after 50 are designated secondary - still important - they connect major towns, but they are a step down. Most of these are high quality single carriageway.
When a national road gets upgraded to motorway standard the N prefix will be dropped and it will become M for motorway.
The first 11 national roads spoke out from Dublin in an anti-clockwise way, the n/m 1 heading north, n/m 2 & n/m 3 heading north west, the n/m 4, n/m 5 & n/m 6 heading west, the n/m 7 & n/m 8 heading south west and the n/m 9, n/m 10 & n/m 11 each heading south.
Then we have regional roads - roads that usually connect regional hubs with other population centres, if an old national road is replaced by a new motorway, the old national road will become a regional road also. These roads are usually single carriageway and vary in standard (some are extremely high quality urban dual-carriage way - from previous national roads, others are unmarked single carriageways.)
Then we have local roads - in the country they are gravel track roads that are also called ‘bothareens’ (comes from Irish bótharín) these are generally quite narrow and steep, in towns and cities they may also be narrow
Can you do video about any upcoming public train networks being built. (Canberra light rail or Gold coast light rail, pros and cons) or like a high speed rail
It's certainly something I'll look into creating in the future. While living relatively close to some projects, I'm not really in a position to go out and film them. Less of an issue with lockdowns and not, and moreso to do with the camera hardware I have access to.
If I can find enough footage I can use, those kinds of videos will definitely be prioritised as there appears to be an audience for them.
This channel isn't solely focused on infrastructure, either, so not every video will be on infrastructure.
Hope this makes sense :)
- Fig
Good video!
I reckon you should put something together about Melbourne's broken peak-hour :(
Yesss
Tasmania still uses National Highway shield for Route 1 from Burnie to Hobart
Having spent the last 20 years in the UK, I appreciate a well planned and consistent road numbering scheme.
My particular gripes, using Victoria as an example:
- The use of the alpha prefix to indicate road condition rather than route importance. Hence the transition from A1 to B1 along the route.
- That the numbers themselves have no logic. In the UK there is an obvious relationship between the A1, A10, A100 etc.
I recognise that Old Northern Road overpass.
Yep, I'm sure any Brisbanite can pick it, it's pretty recognisable.
- Fig
And the dreaded Rode Road roundabout...
@@decayingcorpse Satan's Roundabout. A truly awful intersection!
- Fig
I moved to QLD a few years ago. The Old Northern Rd was where I first saw the white and blue hexagon route number sign for the first time. A new design that I had never seen before.
The states have also duplicated numbers eg M2, A3 etc which seems wrong. This could be solved by having the numbers in a box or shield with the state name on the top like "California 111".
Maybe what Australia needs, with each state getting a designated set of numbers prefixes to assign their roads. (1-9).
For example, ACT gets 1, NSW gets 2/3, VIC gets 4, QLD gets 5, WA gets 6, SA gets 7, NT gets 8 and TAS gets 9
This certainly seems a reasonable option to me!
- Fig
why tf does nsw get an extra number? are they extra special or something lmao
@@lachlanmillsteed6825 more arterial roads. But vic and tas have more. Ideally. NSW/ACT + Vic and Qld border communities: 1 and 2. Rest of Vic: 3 and 4. Tas: 5. Qld and NT: 6 and 7. SA+ Vic border communities: 8. WA:9
@@nperceived just saying cos melbourne has more freeways than sydney
Ok, so the road numbering system is different between states. That you’ve demonstrated clearly.
The video however hasn’t demonstrated - or backed up with any evidence - is why this is actually a problem, and one worth solving.
In a age of GPS, computers, and other devices where even without near ubiquitous cellular coverage you can still download all the map data for Australia with room to spare for full episodes of Peppa Pig and Bluey fir long car trips - who is actually relying on route markers and designations to get from A to B…
Or put another way - when’s the last time you heard anyone in regular conversation give directions like “Take the 60 north to Exit 3A, then head West on 42”?
Hint: the answer is never - and very few people outside of map makers, urban planning, and infrastructure nerds would know about route designations.
The most polite thing I can say in summary is this video is, at best, proposing a solution for something that isn’t actually a problem.
Look, you're not wrong. Right at the end of the video I do say that it's quite a minor thing.
This video really is more of a nitpick that it's all a little bit more complicated than it should be, rather than a video seriously advocating for change. Less "CHANGE IT NOW" and more "Hey, this is a bit messier than it could be, why isn't it simpler?".
I certainly don't foresee any changes - the costs are too high in comparison to the benefits for exactly the reasons you share.
If that hasn't come across as clearly as I'd like I do apologise, I'm still very much learning how best to write my scripts. Any feedback is appreciated.
- Fig
That is what I was thinking. Having driven many long miles throughout Australia, I always planned on my next road stop location, and route numbers were never used. Probably because they have always been inconsistent. Not a high priority.
I've always used route numbers in Melbourne, and after 20 years in the UK, recognise the value of a fully implemented system.
GPS is great, but at some point you need to translate it to the road around you. Exiting the M6 at Junction 36 for the A590 is a lot easier to follow than road names. Also where lanes feed into multiple routes, it's possible to paint the destination road number onto each lane.
No one is saying that life would stop without good road numbering, in the same way that countries can still get by in imperial units. But it does make things simpler.
@@LondonRider12 Meanwhile mainland China & Japan didn't have any numbering system for their expressways until the last decade or do (previously each one was referred only by their names, which tend to refer to the area(s) that they serve or run through e.g. Airport E'Way, G3 Beijing-Taipei (eventually?) E'way
I was looking into this very topic not too long ago, and I found out that Victoria is planning to wholly transition to an alpha-numeric system and phase out the state route shields, sometime in the near future. I couldn’t find anything about the date but Wikipedia mentioned it, but more importantly the Vic sign-design guidelines mandate that new guide signs must leave space for the updated numbering system to be added in future. All state routes are going to be transitioned to A routes, I think. Love the video, exactly the niche topic I enjoy!
It's strange to me that I still see the shield 43 on signs for the citylink and Tullamarine freeway, when they have already chose the alpha numeric M2 designation. Like why mix the 2 up rather than do the full transition.
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸
Sorry - I am 52 and what are these numbers you're using?
1:15 I grew up there.
Have driven Mount-Gravatt-Capalaba road - Kessels Rd - Riawena Rd - Granard Rd - Ipswich Motorway heaps [or as the map shows Metroad 2 to M7]
That's just normal to me.
The suburb I grew-up in has a street called variously : Chadwick, Monkton, Pozieres, Coromandel - you could use any of the names interchangeably.
I must say I was freaked by the 'rigour' of the route-numbering in Tasmania, "Man, you could almost FOLLOW these numbers!" [In Tasmania I noticed the lack of speed recommendations on curves, in Qld you can almost bet your life on them - but Tas is ALL curves].
To which numbers are you referring exactly? I'm not quite sure what you're asking.
- Fig
There are so many weird examples of wrong numbering in QLD. Mt Lindesay Highway is often signed as State Route 13, Logan Road is signed as National Route 95 in some place. There are still some Metroad 1,4,3 and 6 signs hiding around. I still here some people refer to the Port of Brisbane Motorway as State Route 42. Not the mention the fact that there is 2 of each state route in Queensland such as State Route 3 on the Gold Coast and in North Queensland. Also for some reason there are 2 State Route 20s in Brisbane completely disconnected from each other. Why can't QLD just go alphanumeric? It's easy make the Mt Lindsay Highway B91, delete the Metroads and make Kessels Road B21 all the way to Victoria Point and Stafford Road A5. Logan Road to become B95, also lineup the Queensland A2 with its NT link the National Highway 66 or A66 if that's what it is now. Thank you for attending my Queensland Highway Number Rant.
good footage.
I enjoyed watching this.
I'm very glad you enjoyed watching!
- Fig
Northern Territory is adopting Alpha-Numeric, and have been phasing it in over the last couple of years.
Tasmania has the best Alpha-Numeric system as it is divided into zones (for example the C600 roads and B60 roads are off the A6, yet are south of the A10 making South
West Tasmania zone 6; C300 roads and B30 roads are off the A3, east of Highway 1, and south of A4 making south east Tasmania zone 3 - yet all of the A9 is part of zone 3)
Victoria is similar to Tasmania with two exceptions - C roads that are bypasses have a zero in the middle (example, a town bypassed on the A8 is either C801, 802, 805 etc); and the roads in Melbourne City still use a state shield. Why? reasons.
I am suspicious that there are plenty of roads in New South Wales that are deserving of route numbering. But since the Alphanumeric system there is all over the palce, it would be hard to implement C000 numbering.
And yes, Queensland's numbering system is a mess...
Changing the System to Simple Numeric Rote Numbering System would by far be easiest. With all only State Numbering for large metro Highways, Expressways, Thruways etc and National Numbers for smaller longer Highways that travel from one state to another.
Nah alphanumeric is way easier to identify (at least in New South Wales ig) cause if it's an M road you know it's a motorway/freeway, it it's an A road you know it's an arterial route and of its a B road you know it's a road linking small towns
Victoria also has an interesting Highway designation called ‘Alt’ presumably meaning Alternative. The Highway is called Alt 1 and goes from Southbank to Narre Warren. The Highway is adjacent to the M1, not to be confused with the Pacific Motorway. It starts on an Intersection that contains the highways/motorways of A60 and M1 and ends at an intersection containing C101 and M1.
In Victoria there are 4 highways that are National Highways that the Federal Gov Maintain In NSW there are 8 National Hwys in In South Aust there are 4 as well in Queensland there is 4 Western Australia there is 4 Northern Territory there is 3 Canberra is 2 and Tasmania is only 1
National A1 is fine... A2 = from Tennant Creek 66 A15, M31 part of M80 then M8 to Tailem Bend ... A3 = Seymour A39 Rockhampton and the A20...A3 = Hume/Sturt Interchange to Adelaide and A32 becomes A4... A87 becomes A5
A/M 1 coastal
A/M 2 Most direct between state capitals
A/M 3 inland routes North/South (Seymour - Rockhampton) East/West Hume Sturt Interchange - Adelaide (GEPPS CROSS)
A4 Sydney Parramatta/Liverpool Roads to Gawler via Broken Hill
A5 Port Augusta to Darwin
Western Australia
94 and 95 become A2 as both routes are the shortest route to Adelaide and Darwin
And shared routes eg hornsby Hexham are designated as A1 A2 / M1 M2
Western Australia rocks because of its elegant and sexy highway numbering system.
And 'T' roads in NSW, Transurban's monopoly gouging system for executive retirement comfort. As the states can't even agree what shade of brown constitutes a brown paper bag, I wish you good luck with your endeavours .
The biggest problem with road signage around the country is that every ten years, it changes. INtroducing British alphanumeric numbering here hasn't achieved a damn thing and has removed the ability for taxpayers to be able to tell who is funding the road they drive on. Under the old system in NSW, blue shields indicated roads that started and ended in NSW and were 100% state funded. Black and white shields were used for roads that started in NSW but went over a state border. These roads were funded on a Commonwealth-state 80-20 basis. Then the roads with green and gold shields were 100% Commonwealth funded and linked capital cities.
In the meantime, Sydney had adopted a supplimentary ringroad system with blue and white circular shields. This was later replaced with the Metroad system with the hexagons that QLD still has. There was also the well-thought-out freeway identifiers F1 for the Warringah Freeway, F3 for the Sydney-Newcastle Freeway, F4 for the Western Freeway, F5 for the South-Western Freeway and F6 for the Southern Freeway. Wollongong also had an F8 Freeway for a time.
All the above was scrapped when the M/A/B lunacy came in and numbering was again restructured to keep mapping companies busy and regular road users as confused as can be.
Subscribed. Best channel
Thankyou for your kind words. Glad to have you on board!
- Fig
Nothing new here as I am from Queensland.
Nothing confusing even if all 6 are within 3 suburbs of Brisbane .
M means Motorway
A means Arterial leading to Motorway
Black and White means B route in other states
Blue and White shield means C routes
Hexagon are truck routes
Brown and White signs are scenic or tourist routes.
Need to do a video on the freeways of Australia.
Can you please make a video about all the freeways and highways in Melbourne metropolitan area? Is M1 in Melbourne "Princes Freeway" or "Monash Freeway"?
I'll add it to the list of video ideas, but to answer your question - both. The M1, as it does in both Sydney and Brisbane, takes on multiple different names. The M1, regardless, forms part of Australia's highway 1, which circumnavigates the country.
Hope that helps!
- Fig
hello, melbourne guy here! the M1 is both - here’s a little overview:
• vic border to morwell = princes highway
• morwell to berwick = princes freeway
• berwick to richmond = monash freeway
• richmond to western ring road = west gate freeway
• western ring road to winchelsea = princes freeway
• winchelsea onwards = princes highway
hope this helps!
The nsw B91/ Qld 13 is a goat track
The immediate 10 or 15km either side of the border, yeah for sure. But north of Rathdowney and south of about Sherwood or Grevilia, its comparable to most rural highways I would say.
- Fig
The northern territory only implements alpha-numeric routes on a needs basis i.e. if a sign was to be upgraded. I.e. at present there's some A87 and A1 signs present.
WA possible won't implement alpha-numeric routes for the foreseeable future. If they did the Mitchell/Kiwinana Freeway would be M1 and the Grahame Polly Farmer Freeway M2
Does ANYONE use route numbers ?
Because we don't bother with numbers. We go off there names instead.
5:06 good luck with that.
Good old People's Republic of Queensland
Why we should get rid of states in Australia. Pretty pointless demarcation for us Aussies.
Interesting
I keep forgetting tassie is part of Australia 😭 soz not soz
This shits entertaining for some reason
2:02 these highway routes have been built for MCRT “ Multi Combination Road Trains “ to transport goods from country regions to metropolitan cities. “ inconsistent “ or common sense?
New alpra been installed in metro Melbourne
I don't see the point of the alpha-numeric designations. Completely un-user friendly.
what the hell is queensland smoking lol, and the road Department are full of BS, as if they dont have enough Money.
and so we have excellent reasons to dump road traffic for newer and less messier and dangerous transportation systems. not just electric vehicles. not forgetting global populations
It doesn't need a solution, I like the mess. It's not like it matters anyway since there is no need for consistency especially since you can just use a GPS.
And how would it simplify navigation? people choose roads off a map, or a sign, in which the destination and route matter more than the shape of emblem. "A71" means nothing to me anyway, I don't know Anzac avenue as A71 I know it as Anzac avenue, the road that goes from Petrie to Kippa-Ring. No one calls the bruce highway A1, they call it the bruce highway, roads are known by their names much more than their letters. (Clem jones tunnel, Gateway motorway, princess highway etc etc).
m1,m2,m4,m5,m7,m8 shittest highways ever
Don't know how I bumped onto this. All in all Damn good content 🥇. I also have been watching those similar from MStarTutorials and kinda wonder how you guys make these vids. MSTAR TUTORIALS also had amazing information about similiar things on his vids.
Thanks for your kind words, they're much appreciated.
I don't see any similarities between the content of the channel you mention and my own, however.
- Fig
Slight lack of consistency, what's your problem?
1:39 the passage in which you highlight. Will the government spend billions of Australian tax payers dollars to build an alternative route? Probably not.
No.I hate idea. I want 7 different Australia. I think when a City get to Large size it should become a State.
This has always annoyed me.
We do fine in WA using only the blue shields (and NZ where I'm from, using only red ones).
Sure, converting the entire country to alpha-numeric numbering would simplify it, but why did they even start in the first place?
Literally no road user cares whether it says A or C at the front when you can just say that you're taking "Mitchell Freeway" or "Great Northern Highway." It's just those road authority geeks making it confusing for everyone.
4:58 “ The solution “ no one really cares about this and clearly it isn’t in the National interests to fix something that isn’t broken? Tax payers don’t want to pay for a “ better “ identifiable network of signs? That’s why satellite navigation is important. Get with the times 🤷🏽♂️
I'm going to respond to all three of your comments in this one comment:
1:39 - The video doesn't suggest building an alternative route. This route exists, and is an alternative to the more trafficked M1/Pacific Highway route. The video points out that, despite this being functionally the one route, there's inconsistency when crossing the border.
2:02 - This video doesn't talk about *why* these highway routes were built - but why the designations are not consistent across borders. Queensland's A71 and A55 don't suddenly become significantly more trafficked thoroughfares once crossing the border. The A79/B79, you could argue, is a little different due to the size of Mildura, and the A79 being a direct link from its' state capital, while the B79 is a remote rural highway.
4:58 - The video proposes a solution, though, and I can not emphasise this enough, it's not seriously campaigning for change. At the end of the day, while route designations in Australia are kind of a mess, there's not really an intense pressure or immediate need to change them, the costs would far outweigh the benefits, especially in the current climate. The costs are noted in the video.
The point of this video is more along the lines of pointing out that "hey, these are kind of messy and more complicated than they need to be" as opposed to "this issue needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY".
Hope that clears things up.
- Fig
@@Figscape 2:02 inconsistencies can arise? They are purpose built for HCRT “ Heavy Combination Road Trains” ? That is the purpose for these highways? Nothing else? And regardless of route numbers and signs, no competent truck driver cares for it? Just wasting time and energy on something so irrelevant as this 💭
@@Figscape 1:39 I didn’t suggest this video said anything? I have an opinion 🤔
I'm not saying they weren't built for that purpose as, again, that's not what this video is about. It's legitimately *just the inconsistency of the route designation changing once crossing the border*. It doesn't matter what traffic type uses the road, its just pointing out that that little badge is different. That's the entire point being made. Nothing more, nothing less.
Like I said in my previous comment - I acknowledge in the video it's not really a massive problem, and that it probably won't change. It's literally just a video about something that's more complicated than it probably needs to be.
- Fig
@@Figscape 4:58 satellite navigation? Just saying 🤷🏽♂️ who really cares? Not many 💭
Gps dude, this literally doesnt matter.
In the video itself I do say it's a minor thing, not that it's critical. I'm just demonstrating how overly (and I'd argue, needlessly) complicated it is. And providing a solution to it - not that I actually really foresee it changing.
- Fig
Well there's 7 mins of my life i'll never get back eh