Things you should know about ultrasonic record cleaners before buying one!
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- I’ve been seeing a lot people posting on social media about their new cleaners!
I thought I’d throw my hat in the ring since I’ve cleaned over 20,000 records on 4 different machines and have learned some tricks over the years…and yes, you can damage records if you are not careful.
Thanks for watching!
#ultrasonicrecordcleaning #recordcleaning #spatulacity #spatulacityrecords #vinylfirstpress #vinyladdiction #vinylhoarder #vinylobsessed #vinylpossesed #vinylsale #vinylshop #vinyldigger #viynl #viynlcollection #viynladdict #viynls #vynilrecords #vynilcollecting #vyniladdict #recordstorefolklore #recordsleeve #recordscollector #recordsforsale #vinyl #vinylcommunity #records #vinyljunkie
Nice, informative video. FYI, I found a standard ultrasonic cleaner with a 10L tank from SRA Soldering, a little-known American company, a couple of years ago. It really does the job. Each cycle is 10 minutes long with two complete revolutions (using a four-record turner and labeel protector from VinylStack, which is no longer in business). I use 60% power to play it safe, with the sweep function on for the duration. Heat to about 30-32 centigrade. The water needs to be filtered after every go-round (0.35 filter is best). Before a cleaning session, degas for 10 minutes. This tank has everything. Results have been stunning.
Thank you for this. Looking into getting an ultrasonic myself since as you mention the prices are coming down. The iSonic is one I was considering, nice to hear that's a good brand, and that some of the cheaper alternatives are good as well. And of course, very good to know all this stuff before actually getting into this!
Prices for the Degritter still on the moon. I bought myself a vevor now. Budget yes but it will do the job for a reasonable price
Hello,
I have been buying/selling/cleaning records for over 50 years. The machines I use, with the exception of the Chinese US machines I used many years ago, are all 'Pro' level and are expensive, but, needed to get to the level of cleaning, longevity and reliability needed in a commercial setting. I have been using a Keith Monks Gemini (dual platter) RCM for well over 30 years, multiple different Chinese UltraSonic DIY setups (many years ago) and in the past 8 years I have had (2) Degritters, Klaudio US cleaners (now the new KD-CLN-LP200T) and have cleaned many, many tens of thousands of records using mentioned devices.
The Klaudio US will easily remove fingerprints, but it is a very powerful machine, has a separate reservoir/tank, and while cleaning using only distilled or RO/DI (water only is needed) water is pumped into the machine and the area inside the machine that the water flows thru, bathing the record and energized by the (4 x 50 watt/200 watts) side mounted, transducers is only about 25 ounces (8 watts transducer power/Ounce water!)
But, if I could only choose one machine, it would be the Keith Monks Gemini... it does it all, there is no UltraSonic machine that can come close. But, what I usually gain from final cleaning with a US machine, is usually a lower noise floor, more detail and less pops.
As far as UltraSonic cleaners go, especially the Chinese imports, they are a good 'accessory' to a nice vacuum system, but they are not a good stand alone cleaner.
You are cleaning too many records at a time in your cleaners, the volume of water/transducer watts/time in bath/rotation rpm/space between records are all important, especially with only using 5 minutes... I must say, much of what you have discussed here is either inaccurate or not actually true.
I am going to give you a link to a 'E-book' that will blow your mind and you will be amazed at how much research and science has gone into cleaning records.
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf
Hi 'Licoricedisc', Your comment interests me a lot as;
I am considering going down the Ultrasonic Cleaning route for my records (i.e. either going down the DIY route with a Elma Elmasonic P120H Ultrasonic Cleaning Bath with a Kuzma RD Spinner to hold say 5 LPs, or buying a Degritter MK2 or a KLaudio LP200T) even though I currently thoroughly clean my records (and have been the last 10+ years) with my trusty original Keith Monks Classic Vacuum Record Cleaning Machine (which the BBC Archive Dept used to have and use) where I give my records a full pre-wash & main wash regime with the recommended Keith Monks Discovery Cleaning Fluid and the latest technology Keith Monks record cleaning brushes and then a final rinse on the Keith Monks RCM with pure distilled water vacuuming the fluid off between each of these cleaning (pre-wash, main wash & rinse) stages. And yet even after this thorough cleaning regime of my records on my Keith Monks RCM, I can still hear clicks and pops on a lot of my records (I am a critical listener i.e. I listen to most of my records on my TOTL Headphone System - a Hifiman EF1000 Amp with Hifiman Susvara Headphones linked to my CH Precision P1 & X1 Phono Stage linked to my Kuzma XL DC Turntable with Kuzma 4Point 11" Tonearm & MSL Eminent Ex cartridge) even new records that have never been played before. Therefore to remove these clicks and pops wondering and hoping that ultrasonic cleaning will remove them using one of the Ultrasonic Record Cleaning systems I have mentioned above ?
After using your Keith Monks RCM do you still hear clicks and pops from your cleaned records ?. If not, what is your cleaning regime and what cleaning fluids do you use with it ?
Your thoughts on the above would be gratefully appreciated.
You should learn more about books... they actually have a table of contents and an index... or do you expect everyone to hold your hand and explain everything?
And yes, it is science.
one more thing I would add, is some records new right out of the sleeve may have residues from the pressing and processing.. and you can tell.. so now I process them for 4 min or so.. in cleaning ulltrasonic and they sound great. Also,, when if you have a problem record that is extra dirty or sounds bad.. try running it alone for 5 min instead of with multiple records seems to work best.
Purchased one of the Chinese units with the aluminum rotator and have had it for 2 years and really happy with the results. I pre rinse with distilled water and use about a 5-10% alcohol solution mix with distilled water and a tablespoon or two of film developer fluid running at 10 min. When not in use it's covered it with some glad wrap and the solution stays longer with debris not getting in when not in use. Amazing how clean the records get.
That is higher % of alcohol and unsafe, research the proper level or if you even need it in the ultimate record cleaning e-book:
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf
@@LicoricediscI don't read a hole book man. Everyone says 10-20% some even 25% of alcohol and distilled water for the mix. So your day they ask doing it wrong yet they all get great results with it so..
@@RickSanchez_85 "I don't read a hole book man"... wow... just reading that says a lot. You go ahead an use 25% alcohol in your cheap Chinese ultrasonic machine.
There is a reason you "read", but hey, you go right ahead and stay ignorant and use 25% alcohol solution... which will make a much, much higher purity vapor with a very low flash point temperature... easily ignited by static electricity, which with all the cavitation going on, there is plenty of energy.
@@Licoricedisc like you saying it there would have to be thousands of accidents like this. Oddly I never heared of a single on. Again: everyone does 80/20. Don't know anyone who would just use 99/1. Go ahead don't use any alcohol at all that's the safest way if you are so scared. It's not just me so stop framing it like I would be the only one who does this. You are the minority here not me
@@Licoricedisc and for the record all it says is that you can just say the propper mixture in your opinion. Yet instead you recommend reading a whole book about it like this is some kind of science. It's a hobby! You expect people to make it scientific instead of just helping them with "hey, use 2% alcohol only because ..." that says more about you than about me not willing to read a whole english book about record cleaning as someone for which english is not his mother tongue. Should I recommend you a German book and complain that you are not willing to read it too?
I have the iSonic P4875II+MVR10-PRO that cleans 10 records at a time. I just ordered the PSR01A | iSonic Pump Station to make filling and emptying the solution out of the ultrasonic easier. I've tried just about every kind of record cleaning device on the market and I truly believe the ultrasonic route is the best. If there is still noise on a record after cleaning it ultrasonically then the vinyl is actually damaged and there is nothing that will fix that! I watched this video BEFORE buying my iSonic and I totally agree!
Your channel is dangerous. I ordered an ultrasonic cleaner yesterday. I spotted this video after the fact, but figured I would watch it to find out the things I should have known before buying one. I liked hearing that you ultrasonically clean the records you sell. I started exploring your site, and before I knew it I had placed an order.
Sorry to cost you money, but they really are worth it!
Right on bro! I actually made a video showing exactly what I do with my records in one of those $200 machines and it works totally amazing! A no brainer for someone in the biz or just wanting to renew an aged collection!
Thanks for taking the time to share infos, appreciated.
Awesome information!!! Thank you for making this video!!! Rock on Brother!
Thank you for watching!
Wow a video that doesnt sensationalize ultra sonic AND doesn’t pretend that records are permanent? Gold star to you my friend!
Don’t underestimate my video. NOTHING Cleans records like an ultrasonic machine, but they aren’t infallible
@@spatulacityrecords6263 is it better than the new loricraft machines?
Thanks for the useful information. Ive been thinking about buying one.... one of these days!
It’s amazing that you have made this video, thanks so much. I have a cheap Chinese ultrasonic cleaner and have been very happy with it but it is definitely not perfect and I have had the white bubble happen on a small number of records two in particular were brand new! They must have already had an imperfection in them and the ultrasonic clean definitely made them way worse. I couldn’t see the imperfection before but after the clean it was way worse and made an audible pop. I guess it’s worth having a really good look before cleaning for any bubbles and if you see them maybe don’t ultrasonically clean them?
Exactly. What I do is manually rotate them in the US bath without letting that bubble hit the water.
I've never used ultrasonic machines for the very reasons you mention.
Good video.
The analysis is clear & to the point, much thanks.
My lingering concern is whether the noise of an Ultrasonic, in close quarters, might be an issue to a sensitive spouse & sensitive pet?
Thanks again.
The only thing is that when I repair a Audio Desk and test it with one record and hear the improvement I clean all my records 😁
Thanks for the great info!
For years I've been using a Vinyl Style disk washer that has goat hair brushes using 14:1 distilled water to isopropyl alcohol, then add one drop of dawn dish soap to a gallon of this mixture. I then use a spin clean unit that has pads to rinse with 100% distilled water. I air dry on a rack. Before I play a record, I dry brush with a 4" wide goat hair watercolor paint brush then HAND HOLD the record and use an anti static gun. I've tried an ultra sonic cleaner and honestly don't see any difference except I paid just over $100 for my system. Not out to judge anyone ...just do what makes it fun and most rewarding... thats whats matters most!
Labor is the difference for one. Then compare the two with a jazz or comedy record. Agreed, though whatever works for you.
I have an Ultra Sonic old one . . Just clean 1 or 2 records at a time . Just a little bit of alcohol no surfonics
Nice explanation.
I have almost all the parts to build my own US machine, but I'm still looking for the best tips. I was about to buy isopropyl alcohol but by your comments I guess it's not the best choice. As for Windex, some say it's bad for the records 🤔.
One thing I'm not sure is to use quaternary soap to wash old, moldy records or mix it with the surfactant (ilfotol, in my case). An fingerprints are my other worry, so I guess these come off with Windex? No other fluid you can recommend?
Any recommendation for moldy records?
Blue windex is bad for records because it has ammonia. The clear windex is what I recommend because it’s based with vinegar.
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf
Thanks Matt, that was good to know info
When there is no bubbles in the vinyl, how does a longer run-time damage the record?
Same way that going thru a car wash 500 times ruins you paint job. I’m not saying it’s going to be noticeable at first but the more often you run them, the more likely you are to cause damage.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thanks for your quick reply! That's interesting. I'd love to hear a record that got a 5minute clean. And then clean it again for let's say 2-3 hours and then have a listen.
@@MrFcStPaulifan3 I don’t think you’ll notice anything after a few hours. Maybe. I think the biggest fear is that the cavitation will eventually break down the vinyl and you’ll see putting or cracks. You’re constantly bombarding the vinyl with air bubbles at high speed. Eventually that’s going to cause some sort of issues.
You are sure right bubble records. .in Toronto Canada .our water is hard as a rock.
Great overview
Would you suggest washing brand new vinyl? Appreciate all the knowledge!
@@Billyraye_ I’ve heard arguments for it. Fresh records have mold release agents on them when they’re pressed and are often in paper sleeves that have paper dust in them.
I’ve had my China ultrasonic cleaner for over a year now and I’m very happy with it. I usual put a half cup of generic vinegar glass cleaner in it with the water. I got the idea from watching someone using a photo finishing ingredient. Not the same and not even close but the window cleaner was all I had at the time.
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf
Thank you for sharing 👍🏾👍🏾
Thanks a lot, great video. I've also seen in the comments you would change some stuff, like the time and the use of distilled water. I see you do not use isopropyl alcohol. Any views on that? For my part, I just bought the vevor machine, still have not used it. Do you know it? Thanks!
Alcohol is a pretty hot button topic for records. Some people believe it dries out the vinyl and makes it brittle, but I’ve never seen any real research to verify or disprove this. I tend to stay away from it and prefer to err on the side of caution.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thanks!
Great video. Which Isonic cleaner do you recommend? There are several available on Amazon. Thanks.
I haven’t used enough different ones to recommend one. I use the iSonic and the cheap ones from China you see on eBay for a few hundred. I can say I would not recommend the high end ones mentioned in several videos. They don’t do anything better for the price. And I’d probably stay away from the humminguru for no reason other than I’ve heard they’re not great, but I have no proof of that, personally.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 There are several Isonic models online. I am wondering which particular Isonic model you yourself use. Thanks, Patrick
Thanks, man.
I just watched Fremer's review of the iSonic CS 6.1-PRO "Ultrasonic" Record Cleaning Machine and it did not fare well against the KLA. Rather than rehash the review(watch it if you have not seen it) the isonic measured really poorly when many records are put on the spit with little cavitaion , almost none between the records. The KLA had a nice smooth cavi pattern across both sides. When using the iSonic CS 6.1-PRO "Ultrasonic" Record Cleaning Machine with multiple records, Fremer thought it cleaned like a Spin Clean. I like the Spin Clean and I modified mine to use brushes like the Disco-Antistat Vinyl Cleaning Machine but without all the fussiness of it. The brushes do a better cleaning job. Oh, and I own a Degritter and used to own a VPI that I got rid of.
I’ve been using them for 4+ years and vehemently disagree with this. And i assume fremer gets a kickback for each unit sold. Isonic has been making ultrasonic machines for the better part of 50 years for everything from aerospace parts to jewelry. Far longer than kla, who popped up in the market for cleaning records.
There is also a rebuttal video from isonic on RUclips.
Just purchased the Vevor digital cleaner. It would have been nice if it came with some resemblance of an owner's manual. What DID come with it would make a congressman look intelligent. What temperature do you recommend setting the machine for?
I don’t even use the heaters on mine anymore because it takes so long for them to heat up.
Definitely under 90 degrees F
@@spatulacityrecords6263, thank you.
Have been using mine, both with heat and not. I am very impressed with the results I have gotten. I had one record that was so badly scratched (I thought) that even after Spin Cleaning it wouldn't play. Ran it twice through the machine (had nothing to lose) and it plays extremely well....heavily imbedded groove dirt! You made a Sub out of me.
I have an ultrasonic cleaner made by Vevor. It does a good job but only a little better than using a microfiber cloth and a sprayed on mist of 70% isopropyl alcohol. That can be used between the playing of records. My ultrasonic has a heat level which I keep at about 60% farenheit. I'm surprised Matt didn't mention anything about heat settings.
I do t use the heaters. I’ve tested it both with and without and find very little difference. Not enough to warrant waiting for it to heat up. If you see little difference between a microfiber, get a new machine. Test yours with foil. It may not be working properly
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thanks for getting back to me so soon. Not sure what you mean by the tin foil.
@@tomlayman3141 you can use a piece of tin foil to check your transducers and see if they’re working properly. 1 inch by 2 inch piece, hold it over the transducers (with full water) for about 30 seconds. If it comes out with holes or shredded, they’re working fine. If not, they’re bad. Not familiar with the vevor machine, but I also wonder if it’s a ‘true’ US machine with transducers or if it’s cavitation at the right speed. The difference between a towel and spray and a US machine is and should be night and day, unless you only buy new vinyl. I could it being negligible on clean records. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching
How long can you run a VEVOR Digital cleaner before it overheats? Is there a time limit or record limit to watch for?
No idea. I’ve ever worked with one. The normal rule is don’t run a US over an hour without 15 minutes of cooling time.
@@spatulacityrecords6263, Thank you. That gives me some idea as to how long it's going to take me to clean all of the records I have in my collection.
Very helpful,. I saw in another video where someone was using one of these machines and he used 92% Isopropyl alcohol only (no soap). Would this work well or should soap be involved?
Alcohol and vinyl is a very hot button topic. Some people adamantly believe that alcohol damages and eats away at vinyl also drying it out and causing it to be more brittle. I’m not sure I believe it, but I stay away from it in case.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Okay, thanks.
Man, what a informative video👍
Thanks! They’ve come down a lot in price since this video was released.
@@spatulacityrecords6263I have a ultrasonic cleaner just wanting to buy a add on motor rack
Thanks!
Is there a particular model of the iSonic you'd recommend to someone new to this?
Isonic is a manufacturer. I believe they only have one model for records. If you mean ultrasonic machines in general, I honestly like them all. I think the Chinese ones on eBay for a few hundred bucks that wash 6 at a time are great and compact. I’ve never really talked much about humminguru because I haven’t tested it and it doesn’t have great reviews.
Thanks for the info, very clear and insightful. I have a question about temperature. I have watched many how-to vids for ultrasonic cleaning, some say 30C, some 40C and some say no heat at all. What are your thoughts on that? Also maybe you should put a link to your online store in the comments.
I originally waited for them to heat up but it took forever. I generally use hot water when I fill them but if it’s cold I use it cold. I have noticed no difference. The online store is the same as this account Spatulacityrecords.com. Thanks for watching!
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thanks again for the tips. As to the website, it was just a suggestion as I went to look for it after watching your video. As I was typing the name it made me think of a 1989 movie titled UHF. If you've seen it you'll understand, if not, you should.
@@larryonoff6529 spatula city records is a direct reference to the movie. We are even weird al approved! Thanks again for watching.
Interesting hearing your thoughts. It seems to me like the Ultrasonic market is the wild wild west, there is a lot of hype and the implication that they are the silver bullet collectors have been looking for. Of course I realize you aren't saying that. I'm sure some of them do an outstanding job but there are so many variables that can affect the outcome, from speed of rotation, how close records are placed to each other, temperature, time, transducers etc.
I don't know if you are familiar with Neil Antin and his online book, Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records? His 3rd edition offers a great deal of science based information about cleaning with ultrasonics. He covers all varieties of cleaning methods without advocating for any one method as superior to the others.
I clean with spray bottles, brushes and a shop vac and have excellent results. I clean about 7-8 records an hour. How long does it take you from taking out of jacket to putting back in the jacket? I know you run in the US for 5 minutes but including any other steps like a pre clean etc. I'm not opposed to ultrasonics or conventional RCMs but I'm not convinced results are any better or worse than less expensive options.
I think you missed the takeaway or maybe I didn’t express it clearly. There is NOTHING that compared to a Ultrasonic machine. Period. It doesn’t which one you buy they all work better than any other method. I have since moved up to a 10 minute cycle after going back to my original notes. In 20 minutes I can clean 10 records. And that’s because I air dry them. In the summer when it’s hot and dry here 15 minutes. But I’m also cleaning 10 more behind those so in an hour I could easily clean 60-80 records. I might need more drying racks though.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 I'm a firm believer that it is much more about the chemistry and the process than whether you use an ultrasonic, RCM, or clean manually. With that said, you are certainly cleaning at a much faster rate than manual cleaning, by about 10 to 1. So there is clearly an advantage in that regard. If you have any interest I did a video on my cleaning regiment a week or so ago that goes through the solutions, equipment, and cleaning process. I'd be interested in any feedback you might want to offer. Take care fellow record enthusiast.
Is there much of an improvement in sound quality using the isonic as oppose to the Chinese cleaner? After some research I feel the Chinese one will be fine if I do some pre-clean. I have a lot of badly kept records I want to bring back to life.
No sound improvement. They all work about the same and sound about the same. You may have to tweak the time you clean records that’s about it.
How do the ultrasonic cleaners compare with the traditional record cleaning machines? (The Nitty Gritty, Okki-Noki etc)?
Those are vacuum machines. There is no comparison. Ultrasonics blow them out of the water. Vacuum machines just can’t get into the grooves and remove stubborn grime like an US machine.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Interesting, thanks!
What is the exact solution you use? Great video man.
I’ve tried many including making my own, but I use the solution from isonic. They have 2 or 3 and I use the solution for jewelry because it’s a little cheaper than the stuff they sell specifically for records.
When using the "Chinese" cleaner do you find it necessary to slow down the motor in the record cleaner?
I do wish it would slow down a bit, but no I never adjusted it
What is the one where there are two under $200. Do you have a link or post the name and what I am looking for.
No. I just see them come up on eBay every once in a while. They’re from China.
Do you think cleaning the records over again on a diffrent day is bad?
I think it’s unnecessary if you take care of your records and clean your turntable deck and cartridge. I also think it depends on how you’re cleaning them. Using an ultrasonic cleaner over and over? Yes, I think that’s a bad idea. Eventually it will break them down.
Should the Ultra Sonic ever need service, where would I take it??
Depends on which one you had. He can test the transducers yourself and that really the only thing that would need serviced. All the bigger companies have service departments. The Chinese ones from eBay, you’d just replace but unless you’re a record store there’s little chance of that happening based on how I overwork all of mine.
Personally i would never use an ultrasonic cleaner on my records, it seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut - just a gentle dip and brush in a tried and trusted solution and allowed to dry naturally does it for me, perfectly clean records every time and no risk of damage.
@@slowpawstevet3676 then why are you even watching this video? If you’ve never used one, your opinion is moot and you don’t know what you’re talking about or what the sound quality difference is. Ignorance is bliss.
👍✌
can I rub some salt: in Russia you can buy this exact machine new for 100 dollars including the holding and rotating mechanism. maybe because China is closer to Russia, dunno.
You can buy them now for about that. This video was years ago.
Is your store named spatula city because of Weird Al? Lol
No, it’s named after his brother, Normal Al.
I really cant understand why anyone would need a $200 or more record cleaner! I am a 60 year audiophile and professional musician ( who still has excellent hearing ) and I get all the results anyone could need using a new 2 inch fine bristle paint brush, good quality dishwasing liquid , and tap water over the sink. Swirl the soapy brush clockwise, then counter clockwise covering the whole record, Rinse do other side, dry labels first, towel dry records. I pay close attention to the inner 1/3 of the record because of the finer grooves.I use distilled water for the final rinse, just in case - my water is filtered. I Use a 70s Diskwasher brush - with or without liquid, to get any towel micro fibers out of the grooves, then let labels dry for safe handling 10 minutes.
Records usually need this kind of cleaning once if well maintained - a clean Diskwasher brush is usually good enough for cleaning when played.
Pros - the record plays much better than before cleaning - less crackles and pops.
The stylus is clean after playing both sides when viewed under a microscope ( 50X) showing no deposits. This is how I rate record cleaning - are any deposits left under the microscope.
Cons - you have to let the labels dry before handling, though I'm sure I could make a plug for them to keep them dry. You run a risk of dropping a soapy record , though I never have. Some people say cleaning can "Sap" the oils out of the vinyl, but I have never seen any evidence of theis - just clean , shiny, well playing records.
Well, maybe if you tried one you would understand. Good luck to you!
If you’re a true audiophile, $200 is a drop in the bucket.
I’ll gladly pay $200 to not have to do the above mentioned method. Lol
After watching this I think I'll stick to my Pro-ject VC-E. It sounds safer than the ultrasonic unit and takes far less time. Thanks for the video.
To each their own, but know those vacuum machines can cause similar damage and the side by side clarity is off the charts in favor of ultrasonic cleaners, especially if you listen to jazz or psych rock. This isn’t meant to be a scare video just somethings you should watch out for, which you should be watching for with any cleaning system. Thanks for watching.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 I’ve been using my VC-E for nearly three years and have noticed no such issues. What is your source for this information?
@@robertculp9189 my own experience. I’ve washed over 20,000 records
Caffeine?
Not sure what you’re asking.
"3500 kHz" is 3.5 MHz, "45,000 or 50,000 kHz" is 45 or 50 MHz.
You aren't using an ultrasonic cleaner operating in the MHz range.
@@keensoundguy6637 this video is for the average user. I never claimed to be a scientist. According to their site and Amazon it’s 35,000 hz
@Spatula City Records - you've cleaned 20,000 records using a variety of ultrasonic cleaning methods over the years. I wash every newly acquired record in my collection. My process is laborious and time consuming.
I hand wash, using a spray bottle mixture of Groovinator, surfactant, and distilled water. I lay each side flat and gently work the solution with a soft paint edger for 10 minutes per side. Then I vacuum everything up with a Karcher handheld vacuum. The blades of the Karcher are a soft rubber.
I’m assuming my technique is at parity with Ultrasonic inasmuch we both are separating debris from a non porous surface.
So your vacuum heads, do you replace them after every side? If not, the previous steps are moot. Those velvet heads collect dust and inherently leave dust on the next record you clean them with. My point is no matter what process you use, unless in sealed chamber will leave contaminants. Why go thru 3-4 extra steps?
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Velvet heads? I wrote “soft rubber blades”. Take a look at this video at the 6 minute make and you will see the Karcher handheld wet glass vacuum in action. That’s where I first learned about it. It has a rechargeable battery. I live in Japan. I don’t know any record collector in Japan that has an Ultrasonic cleaner, other than used record reseller who is turning over records for sale. No one has the space for an Ultrasonic cleaner in their tiny homes.
ruclips.net/video/GdsGHSZTIVU/видео.html
You hand wash for 10 mins per side...you should find a different hobby LMFAO!!
@@Matasky2010 You don't hang around with too many audiophiles, do you? They run records through ultrasonic cleaners at 5-minutes a pop. Sometimes multiple times. So, if they're minding their's and I'm applying elbow grease to mine; what's the difference? I'm retired.
@@ricefieldrecords You're obsessively cleaning NEW records which maybe have some paper dust and/or mold release agent on them. Not like they have 40 years of mold and/or dirt caked in the grooves. Spatula City is cleaning them as fast as he can because he runs a business where time is money.
Very informative and to the point video. I have decided that the ultrasonic cleaner is not for me. Thanks.
Then I did not do a good job with this video.
If you’re getting a bubble bath, you’re using too much soap.
No. As I said if you put the soap in first, no matter how much you use you will get a bubble bath.
Oh wow, hit the 👍 and bring the Likes up to 667 or do the morally right thing and leave it at 666? WHAT DO I DO???
Thanks for the info. I have been using one I got off of Amazon for $219.00, I have been running 6 records for 20 minutes. No damage, but maybe I don't need to be running them for that long. I am using distilled water and a couple of drops of TergiKleen, so far so good.
You can get the cleaner by itself for about $130 on Amazon. No way anyone should be paying upwards of $500 for one from eBay, unless it washes your car and walks your dog too. That said, you will need a way to hold and turn the records, which isn't free...unless you just put them on a screwdriver and turn them manually, like I did for a few years. It works, but it's a one-at-a-time method, and I don't recommend it. At any rate, I typically go 5 minutes for brand new records out of the shrink, and up to 15 for really dirty records out of the bargain bin. 20 minutes seems like overkill, but if it works for you... I'm also sure to rinse them with distilled water and let them dry thoroughly. I set them on top of red solo cups. I'm a low-tech operation.
The "soap" I use for my cleaning solution is called Quick 'n Brite. An all-purpose non-toxic cleaner that I mix into a solution with distilled water to the strength suggested by the manufacturer for cleaning vinyl floors. It's a marvelous product that can even remove hair spray from bathroom fixtures, and that's a pretty tough job.
Hi Matt. You mis-stated your numbers, The Isonic runs at 35khz not 35,000khz, the other units are 40khz or 45khz. The Kirmuss and Isonic are made by Codyson in Shenzhen China. Kirmuss also uses 35khz. The Degritter is very different to the Isonic or Kirmuss. The Degritter runs 120khz. My unit is undergoing final testing at 120khz, 80khz and 40khz. It does remove fingerprints. It has been delayed because of covid in China. Shenzhen has been in lockdown and as such my base unit has been hard to get. Also made some changes to my unit. And working on a more cost-effective version for the home collector market.
My unit will run at tree frequencies, 40, 80 and 120khz. The Degritter is the best unit I have seen, it beats the KLaudio and Audio desk and Kirmuss and the main difference between these is the frequency. Degritter is the only one running 120khz.
The most critical thing is the water temp. If it runs too hot it will soften the vinyl. The ultrasonic cavitation will heat up the water beyond the setting on the unit.
@@peterrech2307 So obviously even at 120khz it doesn't get too hot. So not really a concern for machines running at 35-40khz.
I have the Vevor that will hold up too 9 LPs and i use Tergikleen, ten drops to one gallon of distilled water. And i have a videos on RUclips that shows a 64 year old Chubby Checker LP that was filthy and after the sonic cleaner then my DIY Vinyl Vac wow super clean. Note the record is original not a reprint repress 64 year old. Plays back nicely granted scuffs and scratches are visible but shiny as is can be for her age. Like with everything els going to far with out knowing or knowledge can screw up a record quickly. Thank for you honest, biased opinion, love my sonic cleaner works fantastic. Note got it off Amazon was 205.00 then dropped to 185.00 had a 25.00 gift card dropped again now 160.00 + tax free shipping.
nice video. what is the difference between the old version and new version?
im trying to decide which to buy lol
Can you use Spin-Clean washer fluid in an Ultrasonic cleaner?
Water: Use a Ro filtered Tab water instead of destilled
Now this is cutting through the b.s. Thanks so much.
Well to not use distilled or even more purified water is absolutely a mistake. You’re going to leave mineral deposits on to the record surface which will create noise and the mineral deposits are corrosive if left on any surface. So really bad idea to not use at the very least distilled water I even recommend a even more purified water which absolutely removes all the minerals and contaminates in the water and that is Ultra Pure water which is medical grade water used to clean surgical and medical tools. Not cheap but it makes sense to keep records for a long time
@@ohjoy40 this came directly from the company. I’m probably going to trust them since they’ve been building US machines for more than 50 years and pioneered the field.
so how do you protect the labels when cleaning them in this machine? does the water drip down onto the labels?
@@jlcougilljr no the label is outside the water and there are rubber gaskets around each label on both sides.
Windex? 😂 Then you say you do run a 10 min cycle? Your talking rubbish
Why? I have. Been doing this a long time. 1st, I use the clear windex not the blue and it’s just to get oils and fingerprints off. Can’t wait to hear what you have against a 10 minute cycle.
I've collected Jamaican singles for over 30 years and we (reggae collecors) have been using ultrasonic machines forever. I have records I cleaned 30 years ago that play perfect. 5 minutes seems excessive. ✌️🇯🇲
Fantastic experience based advice. I use a wet/vacc cleaner for very dirty records before using my Humminguru ultrasonic cleaner and I also use a surfactant with distilled water
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf
Excellent info without the hearsay bias. Very appreciative that you shared this info.
Thanks!
I use the HumminGuru. I do a pre wash with just distilled water and a makeup brush over the record. I have 2 water tanks. First ultrasonic wash/dry (usually 5 minutes) is with a mix of Distilled water and Tergikleen (surfactant) then second ultrasonic wash/Dry is just with distilled water. I have found this method works and very impressed with Tergikleen (surfactant). Many audio file people use it.
I watched the humminguru as it came up. The reviews after it came out weren’t the best. There’s a lot of steps that aren’t really necessary from my experience. I have tried the double and triple and quadruple tanks and washes. It’s overkill, but to each there own.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 I also have a Humminguru and so far so good. I only give them a light wash if I notice fuzz, etc, then pop it into the HG on the 'double' cycle w/ JUST distilled water, and seems to work quite well. Older, more beat up records I'll do a more thorough wash prior to the HG...sometimes (rarely) I'll run it twice on the 'double' cycle.
Thank you so much for your honesty
Thanks, great video that really helps.
Thanks! I think the 2 listed on eBay are mistakes. I’ve seen this happen once before
I love Spatula City. Fantastic store with a great selection and even better prices. I love knowing my records are ultrasonically cleaned before they are shipped to me. Thanks for that!
Thank you for the great video. What has been your experience with using alcohol in the US cleaner?
Embedded somewhere in one of my videos I talk about alcohol. Probably the really long one about kirmuss. The gist is I don’t use it. No one has any real world knowledge or long term testing with it but the argument that makes sense to me is that alcohol dries things out and in time could really do some damage not to mention that all pressing companies have different blends of pvc. Most are similar but all have different additives and since I don’t know how alcohol will affect them, I stay away. Dynaflex is a great example. That was developed in the 70s with the petroleum embargo and is a completely different product. 45s are the same way. Some people swear by it, but I stay away from it. Hope this helps.
The maker of Tergikleen said that alcohol negatively affects the performance of the surfactant, so likely not a good idea to mix them.
I have used an ultrasonic and cleaned the old fashioned way with alcohol and a cottonball and although the ultrasonic did a good job the old fashioned method worked better and had a better clean.Not knocking it but to each their own.Ive been buying and selling records for over 40 years and have seen alot of fads come and go(remember Ronco)? And there is a reason the old fashioned methods are still around.
Do you use the heat function on these cleaners? I’m concerned about putting my vinyl in hot water and potential warping issues….
I appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. I am considering buying a cleaner with multiple frequencies and find your comments valuable. Thanks.
Ahh, Spatula City...what a great bit. I sure miss the Maha. Great video, thanks for the info!
I use one of those tanks made in China with a DIY motor to turn the vinyl. Do you that works as well as the isonic?
Breath
?
@@spatulacityrecords6263 I just felt sorry that you sounded very out of breath! Like having run a marathon!
@@maria-giulianalatini1724 when I get excited I talk fast. I’ve never passed out from talking, yet, so I think we’re good. Watch some of my controversial albums videos for real breath control.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 🤣🤣🤣 I Just sent you a message on your website about a stack of records I inherited that may interest you.
What do you do to remove an oily spot on a record surface.
Depends on what the oily spot is. We usually prewash all records with clear windex before putting in the US machine. That cleans any oily finger prints.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Does the Windex have vinegar in it or is there another one? It was strange because I haven’t played it in decades and I don’t remember there being anything on it when I stored it.
@@danielcombs3207 the clear windex has vinegar. The blue has ammonia. It could have misting or fogging if it was stored in a cheap pvc sleeve.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thank you for sharing your information. I’m a little leery because it’s a Mono copy of the 1st Grateful Dead album. Do you spray and wipe or wait a short time?
@@danielcombs3207 neither windex will do any damage short term. Of you use the blue over and over and over there is concern that it will dry out the vinyl over time but no real proof to show that. If it’s misting or fogging, it will not come off ever. It’s a chemical reaction from the vinyl and the poly sleeves that leach into the vinyl. It usually doesn’t affect playback but just looks ugly.
The best video I’ve seen on cleaning records
The frequency gimmick is just another thing that can’t be proven being advertised. Tons of that in this hobby. Also you’re a badass
@@RonaldRagn first, I am not, but thank you. If by frequency, you mean how much it cavitates, there is very real and easy proof for that. My first machine was pieced together from an industrial shop and it cavitated much differently (I can’t remember if it was higher or lower) and it would tear up records and I would find little vinyl pieces at the bottom of the bath all the time.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Ahh okay I see. I guess I thought you mentioned in the video that it doesn’t really matter how a machine cavitates as long as it’s designed for records. I kind of just viewed the whole “our machine cavitates at an optimal frequency” to be a gimmick, as it can’t really be proven that a higher or lower cavitation frequency is more effective. I do notice a lot of that in this hobby
@@RonaldRagn i might not have been clear on that. I think there is a range for records and other things. I think if you’re cleaning space shuttle parts, you probably want a little more power than a vinyl record. And I think that’s pretty obvious when you see/try different machines. But to say that this one is better because it cavitates at 50 mh more or whatever is marketing or snake oil sales.
I just bought an iSonic machine that can clean and spin dry up to 10 records at a time. I use a Spin Clean machine to first get rid of dirt before I put the records in the iSonic. However, I just found several records in box sets where the inner vinyl jacket has stuck to the records an left marks on them. They seem to be very easy to get rid of, but I do not want to put them through the Spin Clean as they are. What can you recommend to get rid of the substance left by the vinyl inner jackets?
I don’t know, because I don’t know what’s going on? Start with clear windex or soap and water and scrub them with a lint free towel to see if it removed it. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t just put them in your isonic, you’ll just have to change the water when your done. It certainly isn’t going to harm the isonic.
Very helpful
thanks for this video! Great info.
Is it possible to get an Ultrasonic Cleaner, that has motor for the vinyl already? (not a biggie if I need to buy them seperate, and attach it myself. Were just curious. Plus, an Ultrasonic Cleaner that are quiet. Maybe with a lit to close when then vinyls are spinning?
Most of them have motors that rotate the records. I’ve only ever seen homemade ones that didn’t have them. No on the lids. The records are only half submerged in the water so it would be a large and rather bulky cover.
ok. Thanks. Makes sense with the big cover. Thanks for the fast reply. Regards from Denmark@@spatulacityrecords6263
Thanks, short and sweet or "down and dirty" vid. Do you clean 5 or 10 at a time? How many records do you clean before changing the water? And lastly do you filter your tank water (maybe do a vid on why or why not to filter the water)
We are always cleaning records and process orders in the morning. So sometimes we wash 1 and some times we wash 60. So Ive run all numbers and variations and have noticed no difference in cleaning. I do believe the argument that less records gets better cavitation between record but I just don’t think it makes a huge difference for vinyl. Changing water is tricky. I generally change it after 3-4 sets but sometimes I can get 5 and I’ve run cycles that will only get 1. Depends on the records. I don’t filter water and one thing I meant to say and forgot is if I was cleaning records for just myself and not a business, I would probably stick to distilled water only because it’s a processed water and I would maybe go thru 4 gallons a week.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 Thank you for the detailed reply
Windex!?!
Clear windex. It doesn’t have ammonia.
How do I go about using this Ultrasonic and cleaning 7" records ??
They sell adapters for many US machines. My immediate thoughts have washed a few in the isonic is the water levels may not get High enough on some 45s but I’m not 100% on that. I don’t deal in 45s and avoid them at all costs.
@@spatulacityrecords6263 seems like it would be more practical to just manually "steer" it and rotate it by hand?
@@anthonyleone6487 doesn’t work like that. If the water doesn’t hit the top of the groove towards the dead wax, it won’t get clean. Turning won’t help. Again, most make adapters. I think isonic has one but I’m not sure. 45s aren’t my thing, so you’ll have to do the leg work. Sorry!
No BS advice. Greatly appreciated.
I may redo this video. There are a few things I would change and have changed. I tested different time cycles and now run records for 8 minutes instead of 5 and if I were cleaning my own records I may use distilled water since it is cleaner but not worth it for my business. Thank for watching!
try Ad-blue it's quite cheap 5 or 10 L get it from the gas station put in diesel cars as a cleaner. mainly deionised water.
You lost me at winded. The worst thing you can clean an album with....even a pre-wash.
Thanks for the comment there may be some things you misunderstood. Let me see if I can address a few of them.
1. If you look and listen, you’ll see that it’s the CLEAR windex which is vinegar based. The BLUE is ammonia based.
2. The reason most people assume the blue windex is bad for records is 2-fold. Somewhere along the line someone said that ammonia is bad for records because it can damage vinyl. Possibly by drying out the pvc. This has never been proven. Sure it’s probably possible if you leave it in a windex bath for several years. The main reason windex is Poo-poo’d is because it tended to leave a residue on the surface of records (again, this is the blue not the clear) that can build up on your stylus. I’m not really concerned with that since I use an ultrasonic cleaner whose job is to remove residues and dirt. Hence the video… I hope this clear up your confusion and you are able to get back on the path. Good luck.
Didn't you notice that record are little soft after cleaning in ultrasonic? i washed my records for 15 minut when i bought my cleaner. Now i'm doing 5 minutes but most of the time i feel like i can bend record a litttle. After 10 minut they fine again. Is it normal thing? I was afraid when i saw this for the first time. Is it something that i should be worried about?
It’s normal. Most of the time they come out cupped or warped after being cleaned for 10 minutes but they go back to flat after they dry. It’s part of the cavitation.
Great advice , I regularly order records from you when I visit the US and they are always nice and clean . I have been using deionised water with a 3rd part alcohol and a couple of drops of dish soap . So far so good but I may switch to how your doing it as I'm a newbie.
Before you hurt yourself and/or someone else, do some research on alcohol and UltraSonic cleaners. Here is the ultimiate knowledge source for record cleaning:
thevinylpress.com/app/uploads/2022/01/PACVR_3rd-Ed_2022-01-17_Master.pdf