This brings us the issue of consciousness and intelligence. Sure, according to these aliens, we may absolutely pail in comparison in terms of ineligence, but the leader alien acknowledges the consciousness of the you (in the story). It's the question of if we can prove consciousness amongst animals. For example, if a small group of chimpanzees are trained how to communicate with each other, and they go on to teach this to their children and so on and so forth, do they develop a conscious? Did they have one to begin with? Was it unlocked by a sense of community amongst other chimps? If we can communicate with the chimps and assimilate them into our world, are they still just chimps, humans, or humanly cognisant animals? If a cow starts talking to us, is it even aware of it's existence and how we use cows? There is the moral dilemma of ethical animal treatment in food industries, and it's suggested to use natural or cruelty free farms, but would the talking cow be shocked to discover this and vehemently accuse humanity of despicable acts? While thought experiments like this one can be valuable, it's results could be inconclusive until we understand how consciousness works and what all has it.
I hate to be that guy but the Bible had this part where the donkey started talking asking his owner why are you beating me. I read it in grade school and it messed with my head. Your comment reminds me of this. I am not pushing literature I barely read, just thankful for you taking time to discuss cognition and intelligence in animals and the childhood memories it stimulated along with it :)
I've thought about this myself, and my ultimate conclusion is that intelligence is the deciding variable. Human rights should not be automatically granted to everyone, not all humans possess the cognition required (some other animals are smarter than humans more often than you think), and therefore they should be treated the same way we treat those other animals. Conversely, we should try to reach out to exceptionally smart animals to integrate them into our society.
Svenne Karlsson that’s an interesting viewpoint, but i tend to disagree with literally treating the mentally disabled as animals, furthermore how would you measure intelligence
Does a severely mentally challenged human have the same sense of consciousness and cognitive ability as you and I? If not, would it be right to treat him as a lesser being than us? Of course not is what I'd presume you'd say, but how is that any different than the case with other animals and the way we treat THEM for the same reason? Furthermore, one thing that we can know thanks to science is that most animals experience suffering and pain through a nervous system of their own just like you and I.
Turn the table: "You say our minds and language are primitive, then why does your superior being copy our way of living. Proof to us your superiority by showing us the possible ways to sustain ourselves without sacrifice."
Ich finde gut, dass ihr euch dazu entschlossen habt, die ganzen tollen Gedankenexperimente auch für englischsprachige Menschen zugänglich zu machen! Und ich kann immer wieder nur sagen: Die Animationen sind wirklich super! :D
Unfortunately, there is a great difference between intelligent and unintelligent life. This animated analogy isn't the best example to portrait the subject of animal meat consumption
The differences between animals and us is consciousness. However I'd prefer that animals would be ended cruelty free, quickly and kept in humane conditions before it
Only difference is that we actually have the ability to think beyond “eat eat eat drink drink drink oh that thing is scary let me make a lot of noise to make it go away”
Pretty sure what the alien showed is not encouraged or done by a majority of people, it's done so by corporations who profit from these animals suffering. I would like to change the way we treat animals, but it's not me who has control over corporations. Also, many of us don't really have a choice in how we get our food, it's either we eat the food from corporations, or starve. We don't have time to be farmers ourselves, or the land to even decide it. For the alien to blame humanity as a whole and not the corrupt people who enforce the suffering of animals is blasphemous. If the alien leader has control over how humans are being treated, then he is the one at fault for this unnecessary suffering, and therefore unethical and evil, but not the other aliens who go against this suffering of humans. Some aliens are against this form of cruelty much like how many humans are against animal cruelty, but unlike in this situation, we know the one person responsible, the alien lord. But if the aliens have no choice but to go along with this treatment of humans, and cannot economically afford to avoid eating unethically attained human meat, then there is nothing they can do much like how there is nothing we can do against corporations. A sad reality indeed if this were to happen.
Realistically humans would adapt and evolve to hold such conditions as favorable, considering there would be a selective pressure against anyone who resists. Though a better metaphor would be that aliens shepherd us in situations we don't mind living in too much until they kill us by surprise
If a farm animal is aware/conscious/intelligent like a human is, that's where I would draw the line. But they aren't. So I won't draw the line. Edit: Humans are conscious beings, while most animals are not. Most animals just eat, shit, and sleep without regard to morality or awareness of their existence. They only know what they see, which is what separates most animals from humans. Some, like intelligent birds, dolphins, and Elephants are different though. (And though I could be wrong) I remember reading a law that states that it is illegal to hunt dolphins since they are so intelligent.
Does a severely mentally challenged human have the same sense of consciousness and cognitive ability as you and I? If not, would it be right to treat him as a lesser being than us? Of course not is what I'd presume you'd say, but how is that any different than the case with other animals and the way we treat THEM for the same reason? Furthermore, one thing that we can know thanks to science is that most animals experience suffering and pain through a nervous system of their own just like you and I.
@@dudega3ing That's a good question, but I can't answer it since I'm uneducated about the mind of severly-mentally challenged people. I'd have to research about that type of stuff. I'd predict that they're somewhat similar, though this prediction isn't really based on anything. Also, I don't think it's right to treat something lesser just because they are. Ideally I'd like a world where every creature is respected. In this world, I don't think anybody wants to kill animals, it's just that most people have just accepted that this is the life we live.
If the chickens or cows have something to say about our laws, then let's give them a few seats in the congress to represent their population. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy eating steaks and wings.
Aliens would say the same if something like the situation showed in the video happened, maybe we wouldn't even be able to communicate with them as animal can't communicate with us
you're using Out-group Homogeneity here. Humans are a single biological species. Differences between humans are mostly of their social and intellectual competition, not of biological nature, so we feel an exaggerated sense of injustice seeing how some humans are pets and other are being eaten.
Fun video. First thoughts off the top of my head include: - Are humans animals? - Why do we allow animals to harm each other? - Why are other animals exempt from our ethical scrutiny? - How are we so different that we are held to a higher standard? - - - - What is that difference? - Is that basic difference not actually shared by both the humans and the aliens in the thought experiment -> polluting and spoiling its basic juxtaposition of the elements? - Are other animals aware that we intend to eat them? - Do other animals sit around at night pondering their untimely demise at our hands? - Can you have an untimely demise without the expectation of a time frame for your demise? - Are various ungulates upset we take their milk? - What does it mean for a cow, goat, or sheep to become upset? - Do most people not pull plows same as ungulates and for similar masters and for similar reasons? Is that ethical because they have the 'conscious' Sophie's choice to refuse and be destitute if not dead? - Do many people actually think it is 'wrong' when a wolf or bear or tiger kills a human? Or, do they simply destroy these individuals for the sake of their safety like other animals do? If so - are they actually violating any ethical consideration by consuming or killing other animals, or just being an animal too? - Have humans not eaten other humans? - Do humans not still essentially starve and kill one another for the eventual proliferation of their genes - like every other animal? - When they don't why is it that they don't? - Is the more relevant inquiry not actually regarding what actually is the most objective, abstract, and thereby applicable definition for ethics/morality between two parties? What is a social contract? And: What does it mean for the relationship between two groups when at least one group is unable to enter into a social contract with the other group?
- Yes, we belong to the animal kingdom. - That's a serious issue in animal empathy philosophy. You should investigate about the idea of Reducing Wild Animal Suffering (RWAS). There's no reasonable argument to exempt others animals acts from our ethical scrutiny. Is in the wild life where there's more suffering. We can do much to reduce starving, illness and death.
Human is a duality. While its body is animal, its mind is from somewhere else, the spark that made it aware of itself and evolve. Hence, yes, we follow the id command of survival, but at the same time we follow the super ego's ideal to trascend, to be better. Body and mind.
From a scientific view - Its nature. Kill and get killed :p its how it works. You kill a xhicken, but when you die, your body will turn into the detritus which shall fertilise the plants which shall be eaten by chickens of the tuture generation. Its a cycle, just energy is transit.
1. their is a fundamental difference between humans and animals, for the alien and animal situation to be simmilar the difference would need to be more than simple inteligence the aliens would need to be on a whole other level of conciousness only then would the "we are more not simply better" Argument be relevant 2. yes we kill and eat those weaker than us but that is one of the oldest laws in existence the law of power with enough power everything can be forced 3. should that situation ever happen we will fight and we might lose then 2. is in action an we are fucked
well, that was a waste of time. It was a thought experiment designed to illustrate a preconceived conclusion and does not in any way add to the debate, it does not examine the question, it doesn't offer any insight. It is merely propaganda. This kind of thing annoys me. At least it isn't as long as Sophie's world which pretended to be a book about philosophy and then ended up claiming erroneously that philosophy proved the existence of god.
@@user-yn9mp4bt3q Exactly! You just can´t compare the level of conciousness. Animals and humans may not have the same level, but there may be someone who has a "higher" level than humans
Martin Schmidt the difference between 0,1 and 1,2 is both one, but if 1 defines consciousness, then a being with times 0 your consciousness is a different thing than a being with times 1/2 your consciousness.
I don’t think what we are doing to the animals is wrong nor what the aliens doing to us is wrong. If you want something to change, you change it. It’s just the level of power between the two.
@@slowsatsuma3214 No, because we classify existentialism by species not by individuals. As a species we are existentially aware, thus we cannot justify killing others of the species for this option.
Homo sapiens do not need to be as valuable as kittens. Kittens have just got to hold more value than eating a steak.. so but kittens are more valuable than my taste buds
@@kKaz1983 no one cares about you or your taste buds. I care about my taste buds and they need to be satisfied. Your arguments is 0, just like your opinion.
@@jameslowley5512 Logical fallacy (and a really stupid one). Prove that plants have any consciousness. After you obtain your Nobel prize come back and we can talk.
Maybe they have no idea, maybe we humans don't even know, perhaps aliens or higher beings eat something from us that we can't comprehend. Then again who the fuck knows
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
This brings us the issue of consciousness and intelligence. Sure, according to these aliens, we may absolutely pail in comparison in terms of ineligence, but the leader alien acknowledges the consciousness of the you (in the story). It's the question of if we can prove consciousness amongst animals. For example, if a small group of chimpanzees are trained how to communicate with each other, and they go on to teach this to their children and so on and so forth, do they develop a conscious? Did they have one to begin with? Was it unlocked by a sense of community amongst other chimps? If we can communicate with the chimps and assimilate them into our world, are they still just chimps, humans, or humanly cognisant animals? If a cow starts talking to us, is it even aware of it's existence and how we use cows? There is the moral dilemma of ethical animal treatment in food industries, and it's suggested to use natural or cruelty free farms, but would the talking cow be shocked to discover this and vehemently accuse humanity of despicable acts? While thought experiments like this one can be valuable, it's results could be inconclusive until we understand how consciousness works and what all has it.
I hate to be that guy but the Bible had this part where the donkey started talking asking his owner why are you beating me. I read it in grade school and it messed with my head. Your comment reminds me of this. I am not pushing literature I barely read, just thankful for you taking time to discuss cognition and intelligence in animals and the childhood memories it stimulated along with it :)
I've thought about this myself, and my ultimate conclusion is that intelligence is the deciding variable. Human rights should not be automatically granted to everyone, not all humans possess the cognition required (some other animals are smarter than humans more often than you think), and therefore they should be treated the same way we treat those other animals. Conversely, we should try to reach out to exceptionally smart animals to integrate them into our society.
Svenne Karlsson that’s an interesting viewpoint, but i tend to disagree with literally treating the mentally disabled as animals, furthermore how would you measure intelligence
Does a severely mentally challenged human have the same sense of consciousness and cognitive ability as you and I? If not, would it be right to treat him as a lesser being than us? Of course not is what I'd presume you'd say, but how is that any different than the case with other animals and the way we treat THEM for the same reason? Furthermore, one thing that we can know thanks to science is that most animals experience suffering and pain through a nervous system of their own just like you and I.
I think you put this perfectly. Or at least really well.
I have only watched like a quarter of it so far but I'm gonna go on the assumption that this is about he we treat animals
yes, that's a pretty good assumption
do you want a medal for such a feat?
Eh, we had a good run
Turn the table: "You say our minds and language are primitive, then why does your superior being copy our way of living. Proof to us your superiority by showing us the possible ways to sustain ourselves without sacrifice."
00:34 the guy in the jar looked like he didn’t have it so bad lol..
Holy crap, I think this just made me a vegan..
Ich finde gut, dass ihr euch dazu entschlossen habt, die ganzen tollen Gedankenexperimente auch für englischsprachige Menschen zugänglich zu machen! Und ich kann immer wieder nur sagen: Die Animationen sind wirklich super! :D
Intriguing thought experiment. Tbh, it gave me The Promised Neverland vibes.
What do you mean by that comment?
Is that a nod to under the skin ?
Please elaborate
This needs more views
I was expecting an actual philosophical experiment.
Unfortunately, there is a great difference between intelligent and unintelligent life. This animated analogy isn't the best example to portrait the subject of animal meat consumption
This feels like you got it from reddit
Exactly lmao
Of course I’m munching on some chicken wings as I’m watching this
So we should eat the undesirables ?
The differences between animals and us is consciousness. However I'd prefer that animals would be ended cruelty free, quickly and kept in humane conditions before it
@@soldiernom what makes you think animals lack consciousness?
Only difference is that we actually have the ability to think beyond “eat eat eat drink drink drink oh that thing is scary let me make a lot of noise to make it go away”
OK PETA
Twist...
Aliens put us back in the hunter/gatherer epoch where eating animals to survive is a necessity
Pretty sure what the alien showed is not encouraged or done by a majority of people, it's done so by corporations who profit from these animals suffering. I would like to change the way we treat animals, but it's not me who has control over corporations. Also, many of us don't really have a choice in how we get our food, it's either we eat the food from corporations, or starve. We don't have time to be farmers ourselves, or the land to even decide it. For the alien to blame humanity as a whole and not the corrupt people who enforce the suffering of animals is blasphemous. If the alien leader has control over how humans are being treated, then he is the one at fault for this unnecessary suffering, and therefore unethical and evil, but not the other aliens who go against this suffering of humans. Some aliens are against this form of cruelty much like how many humans are against animal cruelty, but unlike in this situation, we know the one person responsible, the alien lord. But if the aliens have no choice but to go along with this treatment of humans, and cannot economically afford to avoid eating unethically attained human meat, then there is nothing they can do much like how there is nothing we can do against corporations. A sad reality indeed if this were to happen.
Realistically humans would adapt and evolve to hold such conditions as favorable, considering there would be a selective pressure against anyone who resists.
Though a better metaphor would be that aliens shepherd us in situations we don't mind living in too much until they kill us by surprise
Maze runner made a lot of sense. Any one getting hints
chi ll what do you mean?
This is a great thought experiment! Thank you!
I always want to be a vegan
Doesn't matter only the best spicies wins whether from another planet or not.there is no morality
I'm watching this as I enjoy my steak and a glass of milk and it's delicious
How old are you? 5?
There's a real culture of proud sociopaths these days.
@I Love Memes Said the user named "I Love Memes". You can do better than that.
Sehr gutes Video!
or the video just justified cannibalism to some...... food for thought
But people don't taste as good.
God damn! We are fucking useful!!
Nice
So what abt animals eating other animals? This is how the animal kingdom works, nothing can be done
If a farm animal is aware/conscious/intelligent like a human is, that's where I would draw the line. But they aren't. So I won't draw the line.
Edit: Humans are conscious beings, while most animals are not. Most animals just eat, shit, and sleep without regard to morality or awareness of their existence. They only know what they see, which is what separates most animals from humans. Some, like intelligent birds, dolphins, and Elephants are different though. (And though I could be wrong) I remember reading a law that states that it is illegal to hunt dolphins since they are so intelligent.
Does a severely mentally challenged human have the same sense of consciousness and cognitive ability as you and I? If not, would it be right to treat him as a lesser being than us? Of course not is what I'd presume you'd say, but how is that any different than the case with other animals and the way we treat THEM for the same reason? Furthermore, one thing that we can know thanks to science is that most animals experience suffering and pain through a nervous system of their own just like you and I.
@@dudega3ing That's a good question, but I can't answer it since I'm uneducated about the mind of severly-mentally challenged people. I'd have to research about that type of stuff. I'd predict that they're somewhat similar, though this prediction isn't really based on anything.
Also, I don't think it's right to treat something lesser just because they are. Ideally I'd like a world where every creature is respected. In this world, I don't think anybody wants to kill animals, it's just that most people have just accepted that this is the life we live.
If the chickens or cows have something to say about our laws, then let's give them a few seats in the congress to represent their population.
Until then, I'll continue to enjoy eating steaks and wings.
Aliens would say the same if something like the situation showed in the video happened, maybe we wouldn't even be able to communicate with them as animal can't communicate with us
What a stupid take
Me that has read Gantz: Meh.
you're using Out-group Homogeneity here. Humans are a single biological species. Differences between humans are mostly of their social and intellectual competition, not of biological nature, so we feel an exaggerated sense of injustice seeing how some humans are pets and other are being eaten.
It's fair, it's just a predator/ prey relationship.
Fun video. First thoughts off the top of my head include:
- Are humans animals?
- Why do we allow animals to harm each other?
- Why are other animals exempt from our ethical scrutiny?
- How are we so different that we are held to a higher standard?
- - - - What is that difference?
- Is that basic difference not actually shared by both the humans and the aliens in the thought experiment -> polluting and spoiling its basic juxtaposition of the elements?
- Are other animals aware that we intend to eat them?
- Do other animals sit around at night pondering their untimely demise at our hands?
- Can you have an untimely demise without the expectation of a time frame for your demise?
- Are various ungulates upset we take their milk?
- What does it mean for a cow, goat, or sheep to become upset?
- Do most people not pull plows same as ungulates and for similar masters and for similar reasons? Is that ethical because they have the 'conscious' Sophie's choice to refuse and be destitute if not dead?
- Do many people actually think it is 'wrong' when a wolf or bear or tiger kills a human? Or, do they simply destroy these individuals for the sake of their safety like other animals do? If so - are they actually violating any ethical consideration by consuming or killing other animals, or just being an animal too?
- Have humans not eaten other humans?
- Do humans not still essentially starve and kill one another for the eventual proliferation of their genes - like every other animal?
- When they don't why is it that they don't?
- Is the more relevant inquiry not actually regarding what actually is the most objective, abstract, and thereby applicable definition for ethics/morality between two parties? What is a social contract? And: What does it mean for the relationship between two groups when at least one group is unable to enter into a social contract with the other group?
- Yes, we belong to the animal kingdom.
- That's a serious issue in animal empathy philosophy. You should investigate about the idea of Reducing Wild Animal Suffering (RWAS). There's no reasonable argument to exempt others animals acts from our ethical scrutiny. Is in the wild life where there's more suffering. We can do much to reduce starving, illness and death.
Human is a duality. While its body is animal, its mind is from somewhere else, the spark that made it aware of itself and evolve.
Hence, yes, we follow the id command of survival, but at the same time we follow the super ego's ideal to trascend, to be better. Body and mind.
From a scientific view - Its nature. Kill and get killed :p its how it works. You kill a xhicken, but when you die, your body will turn into the detritus which shall fertilise the plants which shall be eaten by chickens of the tuture generation. Its a cycle, just energy is transit.
Did PETA make this? lmao
Circle of life baby!!!
This just sounds like the meat industry lol
1. their is a fundamental difference between humans and animals,
for the alien and animal situation to be simmilar the difference would need to be more than simple inteligence the aliens would need to be on a whole other level of conciousness only then would the "we are more not simply better" Argument be relevant
2. yes we kill and eat those weaker than us but that is one of the oldest laws in existence the law of power with enough power everything can be forced
3. should that situation ever happen we will fight and we might lose then 2. is in action an we are fucked
Yeah those were the points in the video if you were paying attention
well, that was a waste of time. It was a thought experiment designed to illustrate a preconceived conclusion and does not in any way add to the debate, it does not examine the question, it doesn't offer any insight. It is merely propaganda. This kind of thing annoys me. At least it isn't as long as Sophie's world which pretended to be a book about philosophy and then ended up claiming erroneously that philosophy proved the existence of god.
Humans and aninals don't have the same level of consciousness, for one thing
How do you know that?
Do humans and aliens have the same level of consciousness?
@@user-yn9mp4bt3q Exactly! You just can´t compare the level of conciousness. Animals and humans may not have the same level, but there may be someone who has a "higher" level than humans
Martin Schmidt the difference between 0,1 and 1,2 is both one, but if 1 defines consciousness, then a being with times 0 your consciousness is a different thing than a being with times 1/2 your consciousness.
oO(Do all humans have the same _level of consciousness?_ )
I don’t think what we are doing to the animals is wrong nor what the aliens doing to us is wrong. If you want something to change, you change it. It’s just the level of power between the two.
Might makes right.
Why have any laws?
@@Twistedhippy Was just about to say the same thing haha.. might never makes right, if that's the case rape would be ethical
Predators and prey. Omnivores, carnivores, and herbavores. Cycle
yeah idk show me when chickens or pigs start inventing the wheel then this becomes legitimate
So there lack of intelligence justifies it? Can we eat humans that are affected by retardation?
@@slowsatsuma3214 No, because we classify existentialism by species not by individuals. As a species we are existentially aware, thus we cannot justify killing others of the species for this option.
By this logic if aliens said that we invented the time machine and and you humans are not able to devlop that then we are eating you😂
We do far worse things to other humans. You have no point.
So something is fine in virtue of there being worse things?
Thats rediculous 😂
It does not matter it's just nature.Only the fittest species wins.
amazing vid, 3k view, maybe homosapiens are not as valuable as kittens lol
Homo sapiens do not need to be as valuable as kittens. Kittens have just got to hold more value than eating a steak.. so but kittens are more valuable than my taste buds
@@kKaz1983 no one cares about you or your taste buds. I care about my taste buds and they need to be satisfied. Your arguments is 0, just like your opinion.
And just like that I stopped eating meat.
What about the plants that are being chopped off to become your meals? I'm sure they want to live too
@@jameslowley5512 70% of crops are used to feed livestock so more plants die from eating meat than from directly eating plants.
@@jameslowley5512 Logical fallacy (and a really stupid one). Prove that plants have any consciousness. After you obtain your Nobel prize come back and we can talk.
@Loklar No, no it doesn't. It's a simple biological machine that happens to reproduce itself.
Pretty sure this is an advert for veganism
Plants scream
We should build space ships so we can be those aliens 😈
What a waste of a good animation.
All of this is false logic.
Go to Kroger chicken or cow would do the exact same thing if it had the power.
Youre using false logic. I could justify doing anything to anyone with your reasoning
a cow posted this
this is meat
this isnt even a thought experiment
It is, per Definition
Its okay its just survival of the fittest
Not me expecting to see that vegan lady here
As long as I'm on top of the food chain...who cares
Humans and animals aren’t the same tho
Aliens and humans aren't the same too;)
The point isn't whether we're the same or not. It's whether the pleasure we get from eating them is worth more than their suffering.
Cows and chickens don’t really care about a lot of this shit tho so no it’s not the same thing
Maybe they have no idea, maybe we humans don't even know, perhaps aliens or higher beings eat something from us that we can't comprehend. Then again who the fuck knows
Nice try ....
lol
Not even worth a comment
This is so true... If only there was no GOD. God has made us in his image, we have authority over his creations.. All of them. God is good, 🙏👋👋🙌🙌
How do you know this? What if it is not?