Instinct and raw skill comes into it, but he's the only Smash God to have scrupulously studied all the mechanics to the point where he's a walking Smash encyclopedia.
@@hugoclarke3284 yeah I guess back in the day pausing was the best tool out there for research lmao, m2k has probably hit the start button more times than anyone
These videos are insane, I´ve always loved watching melee because of all the technical stuff, all those little invisible details that separate good and great players and this series is just "hey, this is what happens in that 0.033 seconds that make such a big difference". That's why i´ve always considered melee the most "scientific" smash and why it will always have a special feeling to me although I´ve barely played it
@@averagejoessb3110 i am from Germany. In the German version of the game Sheik is spelled "Shiek". Just like in OoT in German. So sry if it triggers you but it's uust a habbit of me. :D
i really enjoy how you go straight into the characters options, especially since starting with movement helps start a structure, and the rest builds up upon it to create a good structure/understanding of the character. it shows what to do with the character rather than unnecessary tutorials were people just review her moveset and just tell you now just learn combos. cant really do much with that, especially in a game like this were inexperienced players may have no idea what movement options like wavedash, dash dancing, shield drop etc. and even things like crouch cancel etc. are. you can instantly learn to know what to do and understand how and why. then you can practice it and maybe learn other things from it because it instantly shows players that there are things to discover. not to mention its extremely interesting characters like fox and falco have shield a good shield radius to cover them, its interesting why they have so many good options compared to ever other character, unless its just a coincidence and other characters have just as good or better shields? also some questions about options such as the reverse needles and boost grab, do you only use reverse needle for edge guarding or do you try it for any kind of mix ups and movement as well? reason being is even though its a different game, ive been trying to needle fidget more in ultimate but its kinda difficult, especially since i dont really know what to use it for except for just turning around in air and maybe the equivalent of dash dancing but you are just fidgeting in air. seems kind of a waste to learn apart from the air thing. i dont remember any other questions i had about it since its been a bit since the last time i was messing around with it. and about the boost grab, is it laggier then a jump cancel grab and can you grab smaller characters? further more about needles, whens the best time to use them? again i know its different but its where i started sheik, zero supposedly states in 4 to using needles in a very defensive style then reacts off his opponent (so i guess he conditions them), and recently void in ultimate uses her new needles for aggressive kill-setups (apart from combos being possible, are needles even as fast in melee compared to the new ultimate frame 1 needles? i dont know how sheik kills in this game besides i guess downsmash, upsmash, fair, nair fair gimping, and bair so it would be interesting to test if things like needles or uair still lead to kill setups. i know her dair can combo in this game better then the others because of watching you do it in gameplay so maybe thats used more then uair). concerning auto cancel, should you never l cancel with sheik or even marth? as you stated its faster and because you dont have to hard l cancel or l cancel in general by using the shield buttons then you dont miss the tech thing and cant be trapped into lag. in the l cancel video or something, the other player mentioned hard l canceling but you said no one does it, but i watched some pillaring video and it mentioned you have to do the lowest pillar possible on shield to eliminate shield stun or else you can miss your l cancel and get lag because you if get hit in shield stun then you get hit stun, cant l-cancel because your no longer in a moves frames and then get landing lag. is sheik also more of an options/punish character in this game rather then punish and combo off the punish? like just go for chain grab combos off dtilt and ftilt and use tilts, fairs, and dsmash for quick dmg punishes, then just nair and bair for edge guarding. i was looking to start off with falco and maybe marth as another character, since i have trouble with short hopping with fox and i thought falco was a neat character to learn later on if i also learn fox as well as a good start to him. i wanted to learn marth because i feel he is better then sheik and i thought her short hop was supposed to be harder then foxes or something. it seems otherwise besides if that is true, that she seems best to start off with. i wasnt going to learn auto canceling with marth which is why i asked about it above, it seems annoying to learn both l-canceling and auto canceling and it will take me a very long time to get used to it where as everyone else is ahead of the game in experience. i dont like the physics or whatever of this game either, its not very comfortable to pickup a controller and start to learn where 4 and ultimate are on the complete opposite end and feel very floaty and laggy, like i cant be in control of the character. in melee the character feels very heavy and extremely fast, like your in a gravity/hyperbolic time chamber lmao, so movement and recovery is out of control. i also want to try and get a smash box but you dont get all the angles a controller can, i want to learn ultimate on a box as well. overtime it seems like a better invest then a controller, ive just been getting hand and arm pain from playing pc games alone as well as writing; if it is worthwhile to invest a lot of time into melee or smash or even fighting games in general i may have to do so. there is also the benefit of being comfortable with learning other fighters instantly if i get used to a arcade button box rather then a controller.
I'd recommend learning basic movement like dash dancing, wavedash, and l canceling with the character that feels most comfortable for you. Once you feel like you've got the hang of things, experiment with characters that fit your playstyle and see if they have any character specific tech that you think looks cool. I learned the game with marth but didn't really enjoy playing him, so I picked up falco (who is the most fun character I've ever played in a fighting game). What works for me might not work for you but just thought I'd throw in my two cents.
I've been thinking of picking up sheik for awhile, so when I saw you started this series I was really hoping you'd teach Salem Sheik! I've been a zelda fan my whole life and always wanted to main a character from that series, but finding resources for Sheik has been a challenge. Plus when I was younger, the short hop timings were the number 1 reason on whether I'd keep practicing a character or not, and Sheik's was just to tight for me back then. So I'll definitely be coming back to this video a few times to get a better understanding of the theory to playing sheik. Also if anyone is struggling with ledgedashing, I'd recommend the "How to Ledge dash better" video M2K talked about and linked to at around the 4:00 min mark. I think I struggled a lot with ledgedashing because I knew it was a fast series of inputs so I'd press the buttons roughly at the same time and then usually fail the ledgedash. M2K's video really helped me understand the inputs better, as well as understanding that a frames aren't instant so you can't just push the buttons all at the same time because it needs to be done in under 5 frames or something. I'm definitely going to have write down that little tidbit about Sheiks's ECB, so I don't forget!
Yeah same I've been playing for almost 2 years and there were several points in this video that I had never even known before or didn't really consider.
Great infos ! Thanks m2k. I didn't know some of these advanced stuff. I already do some techniques unintentionnaly so it's conforting me that i'm not trash at this game :)
Cyan Shuman Dr. DooDoo a works instead of down b? i thought you had to spam down b, is that actually slower then a? it seems when pros start they are sheik just in time before the fight starts and i guess this is why.
Sheik also has free no inpacklands if you short hop on yoshi's island and pokemon stadium, so no inpack to f-tilt, grab, downsmash, etc. (I can't remember how to the edge of yoshi's effects the no inpack because it dips down, but if memory serves correctly it shouldn't or you have to do a backward short hop which gets enough height to get a no inpackland).
I don't really understand why Salem is calling mix-ups toxic. Just means an option isn't spammable because everything has a counter. Sounds like the opposite of toxic to me.
kinda my thought/suggestion if possible for these tutorials is maybe a hand camera so we can see the imputs and have a visual of the techskill/movement to go with your explenations
wolfe waffles i know what hes explaning im saying i would like a visual representation along side of what is being explained it makes a big difference for people like myself who are more visual learners
Why does M2K think Fox and Falco have better shields? Sheik's shield is definitely bigger and only leaves her feet slightly exposed so it covers more area for a longer time. Also Peach's downsmash doesn't shield poke Sheik as often as it shield pokes spacies.
I'm sure that the guy who was considered best in the world with fox from 2007-2013 (and then top 5 from then on) and sheik from 2008-2017 has a reason for thinking Fox and falco's shields are better
Shiek can short hop forward air wave land SHIT IS SUPER GOOD and nobody uses it 🤷♂️ you can even short hop fair to nair in a single short hop it’s incredibly good and it’s not even mentioned here
Mew2King's ability to pause on whatever frame he wants is unbelievable.
Fr it's actually kinda godlike
Instinct and raw skill comes into it, but he's the only Smash God to have scrupulously studied all the mechanics to the point where he's a walking Smash encyclopedia.
@@hugoclarke3284 yeah I guess back in the day pausing was the best tool out there for research lmao, m2k has probably hit the start button more times than anyone
How do you think he figured out the frame data for the game originally?
That spreadsheet didn't make itself
Man the chunin exams got weird
as if they wernt wierd enough before
I like how M2K just casually pauses the game on frame 5 of down smash as if his brain just counts the frames in slow motion.
if you think of it as a marth wavedash timing, it might be easier to understand
These videos are insane, I´ve always loved watching melee because of all the technical stuff, all those little invisible details that separate good and great players and this series is just "hey, this is what happens in that 0.033 seconds that make such a big difference". That's why i´ve always considered melee the most "scientific" smash and why it will always have a special feeling to me although I´ve barely played it
0.033 seconds are actually 2 frames, 0.0165 seconds are one frame
@@littlewordman isn’t that what m2k said? “IT MAKES A TWO FRAME DIFFERENCE” 😂😂😂
“You would have been better off being bad”
“Giant Armada Peach Combos”
Audio is better this time. Transitions aren't as ear-bleeding
The best part is where m2k just mindlessly combo the shit out of Salem or a cpu while obviously using 0% of his brain power
Melee Shiek combos are brain dead when they don´t Di or di in. Even we shiek mains call them braindead.
@@ariesomega2487 imagine misspelling sheik in 2020 🤦
@@averagejoessb3110 i am from Germany. In the German version of the game Sheik is spelled "Shiek". Just like in OoT in German. So sry if it triggers you but it's uust a habbit of me. :D
@@ariesomega2487 oh ok my bad, it's just that in America so many people misspell it as shiek when in the NTSC version it is sheik.
4:42 "it actually make a 2 FRAME DIFFERENCE"
The size of Shiek's F-air hitbox is the same size as Fox's hurtbox
Sheik ditto chaingrabs are melee's version of the prisoner's dilemma.
I love watching Salem's reactions to the stupid stuff in the game, like ECB messing with ledge dashes.
i really enjoy how you go straight into the characters options, especially since starting with movement helps start a structure, and the rest builds up upon it to create a good structure/understanding of the character. it shows what to do with the character rather than unnecessary tutorials were people just review her moveset and just tell you now just learn combos. cant really do much with that, especially in a game like this were inexperienced players may have no idea what movement options like wavedash, dash dancing, shield drop etc. and even things like crouch cancel etc. are. you can instantly learn to know what to do and understand how and why. then you can practice it and maybe learn other things from it because it instantly shows players that there are things to discover. not to mention its extremely interesting characters like fox and falco have shield a good shield radius to cover them, its interesting why they have so many good options compared to ever other character, unless its just a coincidence and other characters have just as good or better shields?
also some questions about options such as the reverse needles and boost grab, do you only use reverse needle for edge guarding or do you try it for any kind of mix ups and movement as well? reason being is even though its a different game, ive been trying to needle fidget more in ultimate but its kinda difficult, especially since i dont really know what to use it for except for just turning around in air and maybe the equivalent of dash dancing but you are just fidgeting in air. seems kind of a waste to learn apart from the air thing. i dont remember any other questions i had about it since its been a bit since the last time i was messing around with it.
and about the boost grab, is it laggier then a jump cancel grab and can you grab smaller characters?
further more about needles, whens the best time to use them? again i know its different but its where i started sheik, zero supposedly states in 4 to using needles in a very defensive style then reacts off his opponent (so i guess he conditions them), and recently void in ultimate uses her new needles for aggressive kill-setups (apart from combos being possible, are needles even as fast in melee compared to the new ultimate frame 1 needles? i dont know how sheik kills in this game besides i guess downsmash, upsmash, fair, nair fair gimping, and bair so it would be interesting to test if things like needles or uair still lead to kill setups. i know her dair can combo in this game better then the others because of watching you do it in gameplay so maybe thats used more then uair).
concerning auto cancel, should you never l cancel with sheik or even marth? as you stated its faster and because you dont have to hard l cancel or l cancel in general by using the shield buttons then you dont miss the tech thing and cant be trapped into lag. in the l cancel video or something, the other player mentioned hard l canceling but you said no one does it, but i watched some pillaring video and it mentioned you have to do the lowest pillar possible on shield to eliminate shield stun or else you can miss your l cancel and get lag because you if get hit in shield stun then you get hit stun, cant l-cancel because your no longer in a moves frames and then get landing lag.
is sheik also more of an options/punish character in this game rather then punish and combo off the punish? like just go for chain grab combos off dtilt and ftilt and use tilts, fairs, and dsmash for quick dmg punishes, then just nair and bair for edge guarding.
i was looking to start off with falco and maybe marth as another character, since i have trouble with short hopping with fox and i thought falco was a neat character to learn later on if i also learn fox as well as a good start to him. i wanted to learn marth because i feel he is better then sheik and i thought her short hop was supposed to be harder then foxes or something. it seems otherwise besides if that is true, that she seems best to start off with. i wasnt going to learn auto canceling with marth which is why i asked about it above, it seems annoying to learn both l-canceling and auto canceling and it will take me a very long time to get used to it where as everyone else is ahead of the game in experience. i dont like the physics or whatever of this game either, its not very comfortable to pickup a controller and start to learn where 4 and ultimate are on the complete opposite end and feel very floaty and laggy, like i cant be in control of the character. in melee the character feels very heavy and extremely fast, like your in a gravity/hyperbolic time chamber lmao, so movement and recovery is out of control. i also want to try and get a smash box but you dont get all the angles a controller can, i want to learn ultimate on a box as well. overtime it seems like a better invest then a controller, ive just been getting hand and arm pain from playing pc games alone as well as writing; if it is worthwhile to invest a lot of time into melee or smash or even fighting games in general i may have to do so. there is also the benefit of being comfortable with learning other fighters instantly if i get used to a arcade button box rather then a controller.
I'd recommend learning basic movement like dash dancing, wavedash, and l canceling with the character that feels most comfortable for you. Once you feel like you've got the hang of things, experiment with characters that fit your playstyle and see if they have any character specific tech that you think looks cool. I learned the game with marth but didn't really enjoy playing him, so I picked up falco (who is the most fun character I've ever played in a fighting game). What works for me might not work for you but just thought I'd throw in my two cents.
Dude this sort of videos are SUPER useful keep'em coming!
I think the timeline where Salem becomes a top melee player is the best timeline.
@@mathunit1 Melee can't exist without a Mew2King
@@Parpeing But then who would Mew1King be?
The irony is incredible considering the YEARS OF RESEARCH he's done
I've been thinking of picking up sheik for awhile, so when I saw you started this series I was really hoping you'd teach Salem Sheik! I've been a zelda fan my whole life and always wanted to main a character from that series, but finding resources for Sheik has been a challenge. Plus when I was younger, the short hop timings were the number 1 reason on whether I'd keep practicing a character or not, and Sheik's was just to tight for me back then. So I'll definitely be coming back to this video a few times to get a better understanding of the theory to playing sheik.
Also if anyone is struggling with ledgedashing, I'd recommend the "How to Ledge dash better" video M2K talked about and linked to at around the 4:00 min mark. I think I struggled a lot with ledgedashing because I knew it was a fast series of inputs so I'd press the buttons roughly at the same time and then usually fail the ledgedash. M2K's video really helped me understand the inputs better, as well as understanding that a frames aren't instant so you can't just push the buttons all at the same time because it needs to be done in under 5 frames or something. I'm definitely going to have write down that little tidbit about Sheiks's ECB, so I don't forget!
I love this series so much. Can't wait for the spacies :)
dually8 I agree man, I think they might break Salem’s brain
22:30 thats explains a lot of your westballz sets over the years
Your depth of knowledge is endless, good work.
I remember watching m2k vs salem facing off at Apex 2013 Grand Finals
Seeing them now like this together is so weird and cool.
Thank you so much m2k, as a sheik main this helps a lot
Yeah same I've been playing for almost 2 years and there were several points in this video that I had never even known before or didn't really consider.
i love melee so much
The forgotten top tier
Feels nice to be the first comment and like and view
most overrated character imo
@@Kevin-xd2yv how so
@@Kevin-xd2yvboy you were so wrong
M2k dropping knowledge like its nobodys business... Melee data is him at his best, great content
For context on forward air it’s hitbox is basically the same as fox hurtbox
m2k, you are and have been so helpful! thanks to all you have and do give to smash.
Great infos ! Thanks m2k. I didn't know some of these advanced stuff. I already do some techniques unintentionnaly so it's conforting me that i'm not trash at this game :)
The way m2k makes Sheik move is crazy
M2K is a genius
Great lesson but Salem and I still don't know how to start the match as the character so called Sheik
linkerDA hold a when you select zelda! But m2k should have told Salem, yeah
Hold a when stage is loading
Cyan Shuman
Dr. DooDoo
a works instead of down b? i thought you had to spam down b, is that actually slower then a? it seems when pros start they are sheik just in time before the fight starts and i guess this is why.
@@PoKeKidMPK1 its why you hear the transformation sound when they are on the spawn platform as soon as a match starts
Very educational. Love that you're making these. Keep it up M2K!
8:45 love baiting wave Lands
This is the most I’ve ever seen Salem talk Lmaoo
Really cool to see a Smash player try to get into a game like Melee
Mew2king always preserving my faith in humanity
This is the biggest redemption arc
2 FRAMES
Not enough needle talk
We need melee fox next
Sheik also has free no inpacklands if you short hop on yoshi's island and pokemon stadium, so no inpack to f-tilt, grab, downsmash, etc. (I can't remember how to the edge of yoshi's effects the no inpack because it dips down, but if memory serves correctly it shouldn't or you have to do a backward short hop which gets enough height to get a no inpackland).
11:06 "And that's just the basics."
JMOOK
Keep up the grind
whens M2K academy lol
Ew are you that campy sheik on slippi
would've liked to hear more about sheik vs puff
James and The Giant Peach Combos
I miss videos like these tbh.
LMAO Salem at 8:33, his brain just exploded,
When I was a kid Sheiks stock icon looks like a fly to me
Is it just me...
I see it
You already know salem will never be able to turnaround needle
This dude is a ssbm scientist
I don't really understand why Salem is calling mix-ups toxic. Just means an option isn't spammable because everything has a counter. Sounds like the opposite of toxic to me.
because he cant admit our game is better
Is this the Salem redemption arc? 👀
8:38 with subtitles
great vid, wish it discussed sheik recovery tricks as well though.
m2k says sheik is 5th. just like all her frame 5 moves.
Salem looks like a resident evil 5 zombie
Hi its m2k
and asylum
@10:40 ..... all looked the same to me!!!!!!
kinda my thought/suggestion if possible for these tutorials is maybe a hand camera so we can see the imputs and have a visual of the techskill/movement to go with your explenations
MadMax I don’t think he’s here to explain inputs but more of the game theory behind the character
wolfe waffles i know what hes explaning im saying i would like a visual representation along side of what is being explained it makes a big difference for people like myself who are more visual learners
When’s FAUX?
tavis Taite olalalala
Chain grabbing... am I right?
Sorry, I meant her chain side special stopping ledge grabbing.
Can someone tell me wtf the M2K teaches Salem melee Marth went?
It would be so funny if Salem wins a melee supermajor after the quarantine because of M2k
think you misspelled ultimate
It would be hilarious if he gets good and beats leffen
@@socaranectien1933 maybe he should try beating leffen in ultimate first LOL
tag PRO lmao
Wait what's the weak bair vs strong bair cc thing. Y would weak bair be harder to counter when cc'ing
i love this
There are differences between a pro and a god.
Thx m2k
Can we get a Fox guide next, please??
Where ya at
10:39
Hell ye
How do you teach someone at party game? I don't get it.
Why does M2K think Fox and Falco have better shields? Sheik's shield is definitely bigger and only leaves her feet slightly exposed so it covers more area for a longer time. Also Peach's downsmash doesn't shield poke Sheik as often as it shield pokes spacies.
I'm sure that the guy who was considered best in the world with fox from 2007-2013 (and then top 5 from then on) and sheik from 2008-2017 has a reason for thinking Fox and falco's shields are better
@@HasXXXInCrocs Thanks genius that's why I asked for why he thinks that.
@@HasXXXInCrocs that's called bias. She has a better shield than falco for sure lol.
Be ause they are smaller and their shield covers them... They also have better OoS (Out of Shield) options.
Worse at their feet. Important for shield dropping. But sometimes they get poked
Shiek can short hop forward air wave land SHIT IS SUPER GOOD and nobody uses it 🤷♂️ you can even short hop fair to nair in a single short hop it’s incredibly good and it’s not even mentioned here
You can’t expect everything to be here like Sami nair pressure
Daniel Kim that as well should be talked about I think..
MEWTWOOOOOOOO PLZZZZZ
Can you cover habits that you've found other top players have
whose salem gonna play?
More content with wizzy!
Dose m2k actually reply to the emails of questions you have bc I would love to but I'm afraid I'm just gon be wasting my time 🤔
Mr. GNG I’m assuming it could take a while but it’s worth a shot to do that or maybe tweet him
@@kevwox makes sense, makes sense I appreciate ur opinion I'll try 🤠
Do you guys think you'll do this for Brawl?
Salem and mewtwoking have great chemistry. I expect some great fanfics in the future!
Hi
Yay
I'm first
Noone cares 🗿
So when's the browser lesson🐢
GUYSA I WAS 3RD HEHEHEHE
Uh, m2k, you don’t crouch cancel when you wavedash. You’re confusing ASDI down for crouch cancelling.
Mr Napkino hes explaining in simple terms, if he said ASDI down he would have to explain ASDI for 6 more minutes
AlexFBauer but asdi down is much weaker than crouch cancelling lol
2 FRAMES
Salem looks like a resident evil 5 zombie