Correction: The greens have NO seats in the Scottish parliament because you are discussing the Green Party of England and Wales. The Scottish Greens are completely separate and have cut all communication with the English Greens. And actually the Scottish Greens are doing brilliantly in the polls, overtaking the Lib Dem’s.
I'd be thrilled to bits to see them taking the seats of all the SNP MPs. Labour isn't the party it used to be, and the SNP have only one issue - independence. I want them in Scotland.
@@dec3142 Some officers in the Green Party of England and Wales have forwarded motions against trans-rights, said homophobic things, and wanted to have a say over Scottish politics (which isn't allowed in current devolved government, and generally an enormous sore point).
@@jamesoakley4570 in the welsh and scottish assembly it saves them. in the S, they'd only have 7% of the seats under fptp instead of 24% due to the regional list seats. for the scottish seats in the general election, cons get 25% of the vote but 10% of the seats. SNP get 81% of the seats on 45% of the vote. It's just the votes in england saves cons.
Yeah it's rather insane to do a video on the Greens' performance in the UK Parliament without noting how FP(T)P is absolutely killing their vote. UK get a proportional voting system challenge 2024 😂
Or a preferential voting system. In Australia, many vote green 1 and Labor 2 and Labor usually rely on these Greens preferences. Under FPTP, more tactically vote
The only issue that matters is electoral reform. Without a well functioning democracy with accountable officials, everything else will eventually go downhill.
I think there is other stuff which matters more, you know like the economy, jobs, house prices, we dont want another referendum all they do is divide the country
Because PR is working so well in other countries. Let's just have a government permanently paralyzed by far left and right groups and coalitions breaking down because they can't work together. Sounds great. Small factions with extreme beliefs should be kept out of the house and the current system does that very well!
@@NorfolkCatKickers How do you fix the economy, jobs, house prices, etc? You kick out the politicians who are mismanaging the country, and that means getting rid of the two party system - something you can't do without PR.
I think first-past-the-post plays a part into why our politics move so glacially. I would vote green at the next election if we had a voting system that was more akin to some kind of overall popular vote rather than the archaic system that means we have to rely on voting tactically as the safest way to finally end the tory austerity that has plagued this country for the last 13/14 years.
But Labour and Conservatives would never enact anything but first past the post if they gained majority. Why the only time we got a chance at voting for something other than first past the post was when Lib Dems were in coalition. So by continually voting for the duopoly you will forever not vote green.
So much this. The BBC in particular are utterly failing at being balanced and representative on this I would love to know what neutral metric the BBC can claim to be following, when Reform are on politics panels most weeks, while the Greens are only offered a couple of appearances a year!
The BBC and most of the media (owned by 4/5 billionares) exists to maintain the status quo they act unbiased but they will resist social change at every turn (look at corbyn.) I'm not under the delusion that if corbyn or the greens won they would solve all the issues we have because of our capitalist system but they would at least be slightly progressive compared to our current choices
Is that because Reform are the only actual alternative on the right? Whereas Greens have to share air time with Lib Dems and to an extent SNP/PC on the left of the 2 main parties. Perhaps if UKIP were still relevant or another right wing party then they might not get the same airtime
Two issues. Firstly, the juggernaut to eject the Tories. Secondly, Greens are not given platforms on political discussion panels, yet Tufton Street and RFM are, despite one having no elected representatives, and the other being much smaller than the Greens with numbers of MPs and councillors.
Just to say as well - the Scottish greens are a completely different party to the Green Party of England and Wales. They are pro-independence whereas the greens in England are not, they differ on other areas too but this is the main one. They are legally and literally separate entities.
Just to add that the Green Party of England and Wales doesn't take a stance on independence officially other than you have the right to self determination. Privately most of our members are pro independence and got huge cheers at one conference when the first poll with a pro independence lead in the run up to the 2014 referendum was published.
Sorry, but any video discussing why a minor party isn't doing better in the UK that doesn't even _mention_ First Past the Post has failed its job. The existence of strategic voting is the first, second, and third reason for minor parties failing to do better. This is a very poorly constructed video.
@@A190xx sorry you used rather weird and unclear language. I don't know what you're trying to say. FPTP is the worst electoral system out there. It utterly fails on every metric. Instant Runoff Voting is much, much better if you need to have single-winner seats, but proportional systems are even better than that.
I support the greens, but i won’t vote for them at an electron because i’m desperate to out the Tories and they have no real chance of winning an overall election It’s the classic, terrible first past the post system that forces people to vote tactically
Or Forces you personally to take control of the coalition, here within Labour Party, you are voting for before you vote. Rather than rely on between party coalition, here labour and green, decided after you vote with no input from you.
@@danielwebb8402coalition governments are better than always having massive one party majorities. Labour wouldn’t have gone to Iraq had they been forced to work with Kennedy who was anti-iraq war. I think it’s also healthy for democracy if there is a strong opposition. As we’ve seen these past years the tories can pass and do so much damage and chaos but the opposition is powerless to stop them where as had boris been forced to work with the Libs no way in hell would he and the subsequent leaders got todo all the horrible stuff they’ve done. MMP is the best electoral system.
GTTO thinking is only needed if your constituency is a marginal where it's likely to be close. Elsewhere, especially in safe seats, it's safe to vote Green without it risking Tories winning that seat. Even though there are only 4 seats the Greens are really targeting, every vote elsewhere helps raise their profile and gets them more funding. The bigger overall % they get, the more the message gets across eg to a Labour government. I'll be voting Green in the safe Labour seat I live in...
Greens is the party I align with the most by far. But I’ll vote for whoever is most likely to defeat the tories in my constituency - which is probably not going to be the greens. If we had a proportional voting system I would vote greens 💯
The only wasted to vote is one you don't believe in. Labour will win the next general election with a large majority. That's been made clear with loads of polling data for a long time. There really is no need to vote tactically at the next election because of this.
Yes but the Greens 💚 need support. Pink Tories wearing a red rosette won't deliver the change you really want. It's time to abandon the same old Tories and Tories (Labour). The Greens 💚 need you!
It also seems people on the right are more likely to vote for the party they agree with most, while people on the left seem more inclined to vote for the party that's most likely to defeat the Tories.
Doubt it. People grossly overestimate how much strategic voting there is, especially when the Tories are likely going to lose the next election regardless of how progressives vote.
The main reason people won't vote for the Greens is because FPTP makes a vote for them a wasted vote in nearly every constituency. Under PR they'd have 2 seats instead of 1 with the 2019 election results, imagine how many they'd get if people could actually vote for who they wanted, instead of voting against who they want out, I reckon they'd get 10-15% of the seats.
The one problem is the Tories and Labour don't want PR because then they lose their stranglehold on the political scene and see their neoliberal BS be challenged. Then you get those Fukiyamist bellends who hand-wring about how it will let in Reform UK or some other party. Frankly, if we had PR, Brexit would likely not have happened because then UKIP would have had seats in Parliament and the Tories would not have gone so far right as to nick votes off them.
The Greens are also strongly backing net zero policies which would destroy the living standards of everybody except the middle class and the ultra rich
@@Xollob2no the voting system has always made people vote tactically to oust the tories. Every person should look at who their mp is. Both labour & greens have good MPs. Granted i cant support labour in my area. We have a good green candidate that was also nhs nurse so I trust her. The labour candidate is a centrist that supports israels bombing campaign. Its an easy choice for me.
It's a miracle the UK has any third parties with a First Past The Post system. The UK needs proportional representation or preferential voting if the Brits want a more diverse Parliament. Look at Australia, we have one of the few Greens parties in the world that are actually have substantial political power, to the point of having the balance of power in the senate, with full power to basically veto anything the government tries to pass, which has given them a lot of leverage.
@@jacob2808 Yeah I've heard the UK Greens are a mess. I feel like we Aussies have one of the few Greens parties who both know what they're doing to a reasonable degree and aren't nutjobs.
I would hedge the reason Greens aren't polling as well are because they aren't polling as well and people want the tories out at any cost. I would much rather vote for Green than Labour, but there's no way I would want to risk a Tory seat. We need proportional representation
Former Brighton resident here. Lucas was a great MP and it was nice to have a psedo-independent MP who didn't need to follow the party whip too strongly. It's a shame she's stepping down. The issues highlighted with the Green council are correct, but a lot of the issues started back when the long-term City Clean contract was signed by a Labour council. The private company that has the contract has been beset by fraud and bullying allogations and strikes from the GMB. The only way to fix that is renegoriating the contract. The "anti-car" issues with the Green council are true though on a Brighton & Hove level, but I think it's much less of an issue for those in the central Pavilion constiuancy, which have seen more benefits and less downsides to discouraging people from driving in the centre of the city. It will be a shame if the Greens loose their seat in Brighton, but it seems to be about 50/50 depending on how hard Labor campaign there. They went pretty hard when Lucas was basically a given, so I'd expect them to throw a lot at it this time.
Same with my old council - Thurrock. They gave all their money away to a trickster/ fraudster who claimed he was giving them wind farms. Then he ran off to Dubai, the city of no morals.
Having lived in Brighton I honestly don’t understand why people would want to drive in the city centre. Public transport is quicker, and there’s excellent provision for cyclists and pedestrians. We used to get the bus into the centre then walk.
Definitely recommend voting Green. We need more 3rd parties/independents in parliament. The two party dichotomy is dangerous. Indies/3rd parties are often better MPs as they have to work harder to keep their seats so they spend more time working for their constituents where as many tories and labour are just in it for money and power. They often become or are corrupt. My Tory MP hasn’t had a surgery in like 3 years and is impossible to get in contact with.
1:52 that isn’t the same party- unlike the other main parties which just have branches (or state parties as they’re called in the Lib Dems) the greens are three separate parties... Green Party of England and Wales, the Scottish Green Parry and the Northern Irish one.
The Scottish greens and the Green Party are not the same party the same way scottish labour and labour are. They have different leadership, different ideologies (Scottish greens are pro independence) and do not stand together in U.K. elections. The Green Party has 0 representation in the Scottish parliament.
The Scottish Green party is a fully seperate party from the green party of England and Wales, with different policies (much more pro trans rights, pro Scottish independence, etc.), leadership, etc.
Also the Green party in general is a deeply ideological party that is already competing with the Labour and Lib Dem parties for votes. It's hard to break out of that niche without moderation. Even the German Greens in a PR system eventually moderated.
The obvious solution to this would be to scrap FPTP in favour of a long overdue Proportional Representation (normal or Mixed Member). But it's obvious the Tories don't want that and despite the NEC voting in favour of it, Starmer and his ilk in the Labour right don't want it either because then that would mean actually listening to the people rather than oligarchs who run the newspapers and the donor class and just being all round complacent.
The key issue with the greens is that under the current voting system, they're essentially irrelevant. If I could vote for them with the confidence that that vote wouldn't be interpreted by the system as "one less vote for the only party that stands a chance of unseating the Tories" then I would absolutely vote for them (subject to due diligence)
I am in exactly that situation - I live in an incredibly safe Labour seat (the last non-Labour MP here was in the early 1930s) so I can vote Green to boost their national vote share without worrying about letting the Tories in.
There is only one place I've ever lived that ran a Green MP candidate. FPTP is the single biggest block on alternative parties getting seats and people voting for those they feel actually represent them.
@@Xollob2.... imagine FPTP being well past its sell by date, and the UK being profoundly undemocratic under 14 years of Tory mismanagement and incompetence.....oh it is - on both counts!! It's time to ditch the Tories, and their beloved FPTP Electoral system, and become a properly democratic country fit for the 21st century. Then other countries might start to respect us again. Especially the rest of Europe.
I find it funny that of all issues, trans issues are dividing the Green party. You would think that a Green party would be hyperfocused on the environment and so a social issue like this should not even be a topic of discussion for them, or at least that's what I would think, but here we are I guess.
They're not even answering questions about this. Emails have gone unanswered. I've voted for them because of the green policies, but these are based on science and it doesn't look like they actually understand the most basic biology now. They've undermined their position and we're reluctantly looking at other parties.
I dont want to vote conservative but I also can't bring myself to vote labour in case of a landslide and them doing something stupid. And everyone else is a wasted vote. I may have to vote Reform in the hopes it force electoral reform.
Because being environmentally friendly has nothing to do with (directly) immigration, NHS, employement, taxation etc, they only have a real voice on one issue.
That’s not been the case in all the time that Greens have stood as MPs. They have a detailed manifesto and policy platform across the board. More detailed than any of the other parties from what I can see.
Former member of the Green party. After 2015, they became increasingly obsessed with culture wars rubbish. I vote Labour now, as they are more focused on policy than playing identity politics.
@@Alexander-vo4gv doesn't matter much. Marginally better is still better and, in FPTP systems, you vote for the least worst option that has a chance of winning.
@philosophi4911 Labour never talk about identity politics. Its always the Tories ranting about THE STUPID FAT TRANSES! THEY RUINS EVERYTHING! I'd like it if we just leave the transes alone and fix the real issues
Speaking of Greens, the City of Brisbane, Australia is expected to have a Green Wave in both the Local & State election this year in March 16 & October 26
As someone who hangs out beyond the left-hand side of the Overton Window, I'd say that discussion, certainly on BreadTube is increasingly of the vibe that the Greens are the only viable option for voting left. Maybe that will pick up steam, maybe it will result in broader left support but I have the strong feelingthat this next GE will be a low turnout election of hopelessness rather than the Green Party making a statement via protest votes.
A point you touched upon but is a factor, why are they so ideologically wedded to the idea of having two leaders? Evidence shows that this is not an election winning strategy and could contribute to the problem of nobody knowing who they are.
Minor parties like the greens that work over the entire country tend to not do well in FPTP systems, which is also the case in Canada. Even where STV are used, single seat systems, their impact is limited. They do better in Proportional Representation like in New Zealand and Germany or with Australia's upper house.
I think one issue against the Greens you didn't mention is the international element. The Greens in the UK are associated with the Greens in other countries. And in other countries, the Greens are also performing poorly.
@@veganfishcake yes and no - Labour in Canada might impact the image of Labour in the UK, but Labour in Australia really doesn't. But in any case, they aren't in local UK news nearly as often as the German Greens or the Swedish Greens.
@@davidray6962 what about the Australian Greens or even the New Zealand Greens who were in a coalition nationally with Labour there? Why are only the less left wing Green Parties mentioned?
@@veganfishcake Again, because they would receive mention in local UK news more often. Not to make light of the Antipodes, but they are literally on the other side of the world from Britain. What goes on only a ferry ride away has slightly more immediacy.
No one knows who their leaders are it kind of epitomizes the situation when the picture on this video is of a leader who has had a number of replacements since ( it would be like portray labour with Blair or the tories with Michael Howard).
I find it interesting that the Green Party in Australia also had a blood soaked faction fight. But that one was between the Environmental faction and the Marxist faction. The former group won and purged most (but not all) Marxists from their party.
It'd be a horrific continuation of dehumanising trends if the party's decision to stand with trans rights internally could be explained as a reason for electoral loss.
That's the logo of The Brexit Party (now called the Reform UK Party I believe). Not to be confused with UK Indipendance Party (UKIP) which is primarily responsible for initiating Brexit, but it is run by Nigel Farrage who was the leader of UKIP but left it after the Brexit vote to start the Brexit Party. The house on it's side thus is entirely appropriate, although probably not what they intended it to represent, much like Brexit 😂
I often hear people saying tories and labour are the same. This is completely wrong. The Tories are ideologically opposed to any state funded services and infrastructure. When they have such a policy to get votes they don't bother enacting it properly. Labour on the other hand actually want good outcomes for people and the country.
The editor of the Finacial Times just said she sees little difference between the two parties economically That's a bit worrying if you're hoping for a change from the existing status quo
In 2010 you could: - get an NHS dentist - see a GP promptly - get NHS hospital care in less than a year - send your kids to school without fear of the roof falling in - reliably commute to work on the trains Labour is far from perfect but a far better option than the alternative. They will invest effectively and get services working otherwise the billionaire owned media will shred them. The same media never holds the tories to account and they get away with murder. To really improve UK politics we need to ditch FPTP and get PR.
I'm not all of the way through the video yet but its pretty much their entire defense strategy that I disagree with. I don't like spending money on something I REALLY don't want us to use EVER, but I'd rather spend the money and not use it than need it and not have it in any international landscape- but particularly in the currently very turbulent one.
Also their anti nuclear weapons policy leaks into their nuclear energy policy. I remember a TLDR interview with greens leader a few years back where they said they wouldn't support nuclear power or research because it would always be turned into weapons
FPTP means that voting for a minority party makes it more likely one of the main parties will gain power through a minority vote, so tactical voting takes precedence over voting for whatever party aligns closest with your values.
The Green Party occupies a different plane of reality, so is broadly unelectable. 1) The want to raise £250bn in income taxes from the top 1% and so send our wealth creators overseas. This 1% pays around 30% of all income tax with the highest rate at 45% plus National Insurance. Last year, the UK received £1,029 bn, so the top 1% paid around £308.7bn. Taking another £250bn means the top 1% will hand over almost all their income in tax. 2) They want to freeze rents and so send landlords exiting the market. 3) Thereon, as we know many green and climate claims rely on psuedo scientific studies that are either ludicrous or outright lies. That is not to say, there are not environmental issues, but polar bears are at their highest numbers on record, EVs are far more damaging to the planet than ICEs, and vegetarian diets worsen international freight and make up over 50% of CO2. 4) Their "trans" policies are central to their politics (except their splinter women's group) and were a condition of the Bute House Agreement, which have been debunked again by yet another study - the Cass Report. That is not to say the mainstream parties do not have their faults, but they are less worse.
@@findtheblue I mean yeah, obviously. But I can't help but laugh in the face of such immense and unending shittiness, since there's nothing I personally can do about it
@@Besthinktwice I agree, the general opinion of Britons is not especially reactionary in the matter. However, the so-called intellectual class of the UK has had a weird obsession with trans issues for about a decade now. Even that wouldn't be particularly noteworthy by itself (the US has a similar situation without being labelled as an especially anti-trans country) if it wasn't for the fact that this rhetoric is driven in equal amounts by both the usual suspects (i.e. social conservatives) as it is by supposed progressive and feminist types. And respectfully, there is no other "radical opposite" to the transphobes. Teenagers saying "k*ll all cis people" on Twitter are not materially significant, while the anti-trans organizers participating in stochastic terrorism against trans people are undeniably making their countries more dangerous for trans people.
@@Besthinktwiceit’s funny actually how you are completely wrong in nearly every way in this comment, but that’s completely unsurprising since you are without a doubt not trans
The greens will never get anywhere under the first past the post system. Even if people prefer their policies, FPTP doesn't promote voting for who you actually want.
Indeed. The Greens are in their second governing coalition here iirc. Widely despised. Bourgeois hypocrites who seem to despise the working class. They'll disappear at the next election as will their appalling Scottish counterparts.
This video misses out completely on the biggest reason there are fewer Green MPs: the undemocratic first-past-the-post electoral system in the UK. Under proportional representation, with 5% of the vote, the Green Party would have over 30 MPs.
As someone who broadly agrees with their aims - they don't seem like a serious party of leadership, none of them seem like the sort of people I'd want handling complicated geopolitics, there's a lot of wishful thinking where I'd prefer boring, practical policies, and the whole disarm Trident/no nuclear/CND thing is cringe af - you aren't my mum's fridge door, guys...
Same reason the Lib Dems and Reform reach a ceiling with their vote share - FPTP. That's why I'll happily vote for any party that isn't Tory or Labour. The other reason is they appeal to a very narrow demographic - overwhelmingly white, middle or upper class, and very progressively minded folk might vote Green, but others won't give them a second look.
@@johnyendall9377 What do you want me to do? Until we get proportional representation I'm stuck. I can't stand the Tories, and have to vote Labour to remove them.
I hate the tories but i hate labour more i am voting reform i know they will not get elected but at least i have done the right thing in my mind and will take no flack for the absolute sh%% show thats coming our way if any of the main two get in @@steveozone4910
FPTP is a large part of it, but I think another part of it is that Greens cannot actually talk about what needs to be done. If they talk about people recycling a bit more and increasing wind energy, the electorate will accept that, but it's hardly earthshaking. If they talk about re-greening, withdrawal from marginal areas, drastically reducing electricity consumption and forcing people out cars into public transport, the electorate shudder and look away.
@@samuelmelton8353 One of the problems facing wind - especially offshore wind - is that it clashes with Defence. Long-range radars have issues with very large, spinning objects between them and a target. They are not easily fix-able issues either. With Russia becoming more and more of a problem, I can't see the MoD giving up easily.
@@onenote6619 Thanks for letting me know, I was not aware - do you know any good articles on the topic? If the UK doubled its wind, it would seriously eat into natural gas, so it would be good to find solutions to this.
Will watch .... but my answer before watching is "Lack of Proportional Representation" I used to vote Green for MEPs because of PR but its a wasted vote for Westminster
@@moomin7461 You overestimate the amount of nuclear wastes and the risks of any leak. But the point is that reaching net zero without nuclear is almost impossible, at least not without *huge* changes in people way of life.
@@moomin7461 sure to summarize, but the discussion is broad. 1) all energy sources produce toxic and/or radioactive waste, including renewables such as solar and wind. Trivially due to the supply chain of mineral resources. 2)Nuclear waste can be recycled in FBRs 3) If you don't recycle them, they are placed in a geological repository where they cannot have interference with the surface environment. 4) If you don't use nuclear power you have to use fossil fuels, whose waste goes into the air we breathe (as opposed to waste). 5) The data says that for the same amount of energy produced, nuclear power is among the sources that cause fewer deaths.
Also Greens aren't very strong on economic policies (a lot of green policies are ideological rather than practical). People are suffering with the cost of living crisis so would prefer practical solutions.
@@markwelch3564 you can't entirely move off until you have another stable energy supply like nuclear. Also in the UK you pay at the rate for the most expensive unit of energy so at the moment it doesn't matter if you have 1 million wind turbines, when you need a stable supply (like gas) then your energy cost is the price of gas (system needs changing).
@@veganfishcake no one really knows to be honest. Mostly hear about rent controls and eco sustainability, sounds like no more houses will be built. Breaking up the major house developers is a good idea but then again you still need someone to build.
@@Pirake123 we have a policy website with many different policy areas which outline our economic policies, not just the small bits you've come across in the media. Why not take a read?
IMO, I think it’s because a lot of progressives choose to stick with Labour. AND because the Greens are too much to the left. And are seen as unserious compared to the Greens in like Germany etc.
Progressive is an American political term, it has a lot of negative connotations that the UK left majority don't want, thanks. I used to be a member of the Green party, but after 2015 they became increasingly obsessed with culture wars rubbish, as some might say, they went 'woke'. I vote Labour now, as they are more focused on policy than playing identity politics.
So to summerize why greens the west world over aren´t doing so hot. "The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."
Against nuclear power which most people are for, against rail infrastructure schemes, for NIMBYs, and against building in general - people will not take kindly to this, especially as both main parties at least pay lip service to climate policies
just as an outsider looking in, specifically Australian looking in would FPTP not have smthn to do with this? In Australia the last election saw what is likely going to happen this election in the UK where the whole country just goes "urgh get these fucks OUT" and even then the (Australian) Greens gained 3 seats, and 1.85% of the first preference vote and that is simply because in Australia, we have Preferential Voting, which is so much better for smaller parties, allowing them to gain votes because people don't feel like they're wasting them, thus allowing a smaller parties, like The Greens, to gain at an election even when the entire country is universally deciding "fuck the Lib/Nats get em out"
The Green's are also a victim of their own success, due to their status as a Centre-Left to Left-Wing Party, they mostly take all their votes from people who otherwise would be voting Labour. You can argue that the Green Party have served unfortunately as a 'spoiler' candidate in 2015 and 2019, helping the Tories to much larger majorities than they should of have. This is why we have seen Kier Starmer and co. heavily push Labour towards environmentalism. Many prior Green policies have basically been adopted by Labour, a Kier Starmer's government is expected based on what has been stated to be very environmental in contrast to previous Labour administrations. The Green Party finds themselves without a leg to stand on. Why vote Green when Labour are now effectively offering the same thing and are much more likely to get into office.
This is very much not the case. Havant is one of the deepest blue parts of the country, yet we took a seat off the Tories in Emsworth. There are many people who normally vote Tory who are disillusioned with the party.
There's still big differences between Green and Labour. Labour still lag on housing and economic investment If you want to show that these things are important to you, a Green vote is a good way to express this at the ballot box
I wouldn't look at this as a failure of the Green party. I think the purpose of small parties like the Greens under a FPTP system is not to get into office themselves, but to influence the policies of the two main parties. By forcing Labour to adopt green policies in order to win back voters, the Greens will see parts of their agenda enacted without ever needing to be in government. The same thing happened on the right with Brexit. Cameron had to hold a referendum he didn't want, essentially because of pressure on the Tory vote from UKIP.
Seeing every single political party turn so hardline against trans rights is heartbreaking. Not a good look when the US Democrats are significantly more progressive than you on any issue.
Agreed. I just wish people would stop othering trans people and their rights by describing it as an "issue". Imagine describing any other minority group that way - it would be completely unacceptable.
@@Foxymoron88 We don't have to imagine it, it's exactly the same as the gay panic 40-50 years ago. The arguments are word-for-word the same, from as general as "But the toilets!" to as specific as "Older lesbians/trans men are grooming sweet, innocent, fertile young girls who are too stupid to know what they really want."
The Greens didn't turn against trans people. A subgroup wanted to, they weren't supported by the leadership or the membership, and are no longer in the party. The Green's most recent manifesto - and their key figures - support further protections for trans people
Why would they be doing better? Wasting a vote aren’t you. UK is generally moderate centre ground, you aren’t going to get mass appeal just on either of the wings.
The UK and USA share a common issue - FPTP voting. In Rushcliffe in the UK, the conservatives held with 28,700 votes Labour got 21,000 and Lib Dems got 9,600. More people didn't vote for the conservatives than did. How is that a representative result? Lib dems ended with 11 seats last election. That's 1.69% actual representation in the commons despite getting 11.5% of the vote. Again, how is this representative? More people would vote for actually decent candidates, across parties and beliefs, if they knew their vote wasn't just going to be like pissing into the wind. Instead, we're forced to vote for either Labour or Conservative. Two parties to represent all whites, blacks, asians, old, young, rich, poor... The entire system presents an entirely false sense of representation. 56.4% of voters did NOT want the conservatives in power in 2019. Yet here we are...
How do people get around then genius? This is the problem with green progressives like you, you live in La La land. All the goods, cargo and shipping containers going to be delivered to Brighton city center by bicycle is it?
People use cars because of inadequate public transport which is slow, expensive, and unreliable. Bring more buses, more trains, make them really cheap and more frequent, then people will happily ditch their cars. But the government is not willing to invest in such a thing. That's why we still have this problem in the first place.
As a German with full residency rights, I am aware that the Green Party are doing very well here in the beautiful Norfolk Broads. Also, Fun Fact: the tories have not one single councillor in the city of Norwich, which shows how progressive it is. I will vote tactically in the general election (if one is ever held), although I will be returning to Germany in about a year. Good luck everyone!
First Past the Post inhibits 3rd Party development. In nations using FPTP smaller parties often succeed somewhat due to REGIONAL appeal. e.g. SNP gets seats appealing to Scotch nationalism, Bloc Quebecois appeals to Quebec nationalism. Remember there was once a Right split from Labour called Social Democrats. After slight success they ended up merging with Lib Dems.
Being from Scotland and having to live with the rules the green party made, which are blanket rules and are not fit for the whole of Scotland. They might be fine rules for lowland inshore areas, but when used on coastal areas the new rules cause more heating poverty. The quicker we can remove them from power the better
As a queer person living in the UK it is heartbreaking to me that the only party committed to not eroding the rights of my community is of no interest to the average Brit.
Be serious though. The Tories aren’t going to go back as they’d be destroyed if they went too far back. And Labour going back on it at all would destroy them.
Any advancement in LGBTQ+ rights has been through our own organisation as a community pushing against the political parties in charge and by gaining power within them through emboldening individual allies and getting people elected in the right places. The Greens do have a stronger LGBTQ+ contingent than in most parties, however they will not get elected under FPTP. So we need a way to change the electoral system and/or ensure that vocal allies in the major parties get elected. They might not all be well known names now, but they might be in years to come. It's not as if when LGBTQ+ activists in the 80s were trying to get the Labour Party to support the community that we were getting much of a hearing, listen to some of the people in the Lesbians and Gays Support The Miners movement or to Peter Tatchell. But after Kinnock was gone, things began to change. Blair made a quiet deal with Stonewall just prior to his massive landslide win.
The Scottish Greens oppose NATO, gladly abandoning the people of Eastern Europe to be crushed by Russia, which is a regime that would eagerly destroy you for who you are. Knowing that, do you not think the Scottish Greens would abandon you if you were no longer politically convenient for them, just like the Baltic peoples are politically inconvenient for wanting nuclear protection, liberal democracy, capitalism and integration with the West after experiencing what communism did to them?
Fact Check: 'The Scottish Greens' party and 'The Greens' are very much separate from each other, with them each having their own independent leadership structure, and both having key policy differences, crucially over the issue of Scottish Independence. - This is different from the Scottish Labour Party and the Labour Party, as Scottish labour is essentially just a branch of the overall Labour party.
People like you are made fun of because you’re all so incredibly thick. Green policies lower bills and make our cities safer (e.g. reduce air pollution so less people die prematurely). There is no green agenda- these policies benefit EVERYONE (especially the poorest in society) which is why the tories and their billionaire mates feel so threatened by them. If you are ‘working class’ as you say you are, you should be supporting green policies.
What really doesn't help their case is the voting system (same goes for Reform, and to a lesser extend the Lib Dems). The system makes people feel that any non-Labour vote (or non-Lib Dem in certain constituencies) is effectively a vote for the Tories, so the appeal of the smaller parties falls off a cliff. This was shown in the last round of EU elections where the Brexit Party (now Reform) and the Greens garnered a huge proportion of votes. Also, ah trans issues, the scenario where people who just want to live their lives get turned into political footballs...
@@FatRonaldo1 So in this whacky world you live in, if the greens won an election they should just focus on climate and nothing else NHS can rot, Police reform whatever, housing crisis leave it right? not part of green policy leave it alone.
If you break it down by age. More people are looking to vote green than Tory, but there are more over 50 people who vote than under 50 so you get that low voter number
Correction:
The greens have NO seats in the Scottish parliament because you are discussing the Green Party of England and Wales. The Scottish Greens are completely separate and have cut all communication with the English Greens. And actually the Scottish Greens are doing brilliantly in the polls, overtaking the Lib Dem’s.
I'd be thrilled to bits to see them taking the seats of all the SNP MPs. Labour isn't the party it used to be, and the SNP have only one issue - independence. I want them in Scotland.
Whad's the reason for serverring communications?
Unfortunately the Scottish greens have become just as focused on independence, that's why their old leader just left the party @@isabelstokes4042
@@dec3142 Some officers in the Green Party of England and Wales have forwarded motions against trans-rights, said homophobic things, and wanted to have a say over Scottish politics (which isn't allowed in current devolved government, and generally an enormous sore point).
The Scottish greens need to get back in line
The British voting system is quite the factor as well
yeh first pass the post doesn't help smaller parties. it's why Tories keep getting in
@@jamesoakley4570 in the welsh and scottish assembly it saves them. in the S, they'd only have 7% of the seats under fptp instead of 24% due to the regional list seats. for the scottish seats in the general election, cons get 25% of the vote but 10% of the seats. SNP get 81% of the seats on 45% of the vote.
It's just the votes in england saves cons.
Yeah it's rather insane to do a video on the Greens' performance in the UK Parliament without noting how FP(T)P is absolutely killing their vote. UK get a proportional voting system challenge 2024 😂
his last video on the greens mainly focused on this point tbf, but yeah 1 sentence was needed
@@ari54x
Or a preferential voting system. In Australia, many vote green 1 and Labor 2 and Labor usually rely on these Greens preferences. Under FPTP, more tactically vote
The only issue that matters is electoral reform. Without a well functioning democracy with accountable officials, everything else will eventually go downhill.
with PR the greens would statistically have less leverage
With PR reform would have more seats than labour, I dint care if that happens, but I imagine you would
I think there is other stuff which matters more, you know like the economy, jobs, house prices, we dont want another referendum all they do is divide the country
Because PR is working so well in other countries. Let's just have a government permanently paralyzed by far left and right groups and coalitions breaking down because they can't work together. Sounds great. Small factions with extreme beliefs should be kept out of the house and the current system does that very well!
@@NorfolkCatKickers How do you fix the economy, jobs, house prices, etc? You kick out the politicians who are mismanaging the country, and that means getting rid of the two party system - something you can't do without PR.
I think first-past-the-post plays a part into why our politics move so glacially. I would vote green at the next election if we had a voting system that was more akin to some kind of overall popular vote rather than the archaic system that means we have to rely on voting tactically as the safest way to finally end the tory austerity that has plagued this country for the last 13/14 years.
But Labour and Conservatives would never enact anything but first past the post if they gained majority. Why the only time we got a chance at voting for something other than first past the post was when Lib Dems were in coalition. So by continually voting for the duopoly you will forever not vote green.
Exactly what i came to comment, a vote where we only get two options for how our government is run is not democracy, its a political monopoly on power
Voting green is the worst thing one can do. Just look at the damage these fanatics do when in power.
Exactly. It's blindingly obvious that many more people would vote Green if they knew their votes would count and not just get thrown into the bin.
Vote green anyway, voting starmer is a Tory vote
The greens also dont get any tv screen time compared to Reform which doesn't even have any seats
So much this. The BBC in particular are utterly failing at being balanced and representative on this
I would love to know what neutral metric the BBC can claim to be following, when Reform are on politics panels most weeks, while the Greens are only offered a couple of appearances a year!
The BBC and most of the media (owned by 4/5 billionares) exists to maintain the status quo they act unbiased but they will resist social change at every turn (look at corbyn.) I'm not under the delusion that if corbyn or the greens won they would solve all the issues we have because of our capitalist system but they would at least be slightly progressive compared to our current choices
Is that because Reform are the only actual alternative on the right? Whereas Greens have to share air time with Lib Dems and to an extent SNP/PC on the left of the 2 main parties. Perhaps if UKIP were still relevant or another right wing party then they might not get the same airtime
@@Wozza365 that's the most credible argument I've heard, but it's not enough to explain the scale of the discrepancy
no one wants them
Two issues. Firstly, the juggernaut to eject the Tories. Secondly, Greens are not given platforms on political discussion panels, yet Tufton Street and RFM are, despite one having no elected representatives, and the other being much smaller than the Greens with numbers of MPs and councillors.
Just to say as well - the Scottish greens are a completely different party to the Green Party of England and Wales. They are pro-independence whereas the greens in England are not, they differ on other areas too but this is the main one. They are legally and literally separate entities.
So Caroline Lucas isn't their Leader??
@@arpandas2243True, although Lucas doesn't lead English Greens either anymore
Patrick Harvey and Lorna Slater are the joint leaders of the Scottish Greens.
Just to add that the Green Party of England and Wales doesn't take a stance on independence officially other than you have the right to self determination. Privately most of our members are pro independence and got huge cheers at one conference when the first poll with a pro independence lead in the run up to the 2014 referendum was published.
The greens in Wales are pro independence
Sorry, but any video discussing why a minor party isn't doing better in the UK that doesn't even _mention_ First Past the Post has failed its job. The existence of strategic voting is the first, second, and third reason for minor parties failing to do better. This is a very poorly constructed video.
+++
Maybe but first past the post is less worst than the other options, including PR.
@@A190xx sorry you used rather weird and unclear language. I don't know what you're trying to say.
FPTP is the worst electoral system out there. It utterly fails on every metric. Instant Runoff Voting is much, much better if you need to have single-winner seats, but proportional systems are even better than that.
@@A190xx Well no, but actually no. Just no.
They are completely ignored by mainstream media. The framing is labour or tories
While Reform seem to pop up everywhere, despite similar polling to the Greens
Doesnt seem right, does it?
It's like they are completely irrelivant in the current system.
@@davidty2006 this is a statement that should apply equally to Green and Reform
Doesn't work that way in practice though 🤔
I support the greens, but i won’t vote for them at an electron because i’m desperate to out the Tories and they have no real chance of winning an overall election
It’s the classic, terrible first past the post system that forces people to vote tactically
Or
Forces you personally to take control of the coalition, here within Labour Party, you are voting for before you vote.
Rather than rely on between party coalition, here labour and green, decided after you vote with no input from you.
@@danielwebb8402coalition governments are better than always having massive one party majorities. Labour wouldn’t have gone to Iraq had they been forced to work with Kennedy who was anti-iraq war. I think it’s also healthy for democracy if there is a strong opposition. As we’ve seen these past years the tories can pass and do so much damage and chaos but the opposition is powerless to stop them where as had boris been forced to work with the Libs no way in hell would he and the subsequent leaders got todo all the horrible stuff they’ve done. MMP is the best electoral system.
sadly the WEF has said there is no difference between the two major parties so who ever gets in, nothing will change except the name.
GTTO thinking is only needed if your constituency is a marginal where it's likely to be close. Elsewhere, especially in safe seats, it's safe to vote Green without it risking Tories winning that seat. Even though there are only 4 seats the Greens are really targeting, every vote elsewhere helps raise their profile and gets them more funding. The bigger overall % they get, the more the message gets across eg to a Labour government. I'll be voting Green in the safe Labour seat I live in...
Ah, so the same garbage logic that keeps the US stuck in its duopoly. Brilliant.
Greens is the party I align with the most by far. But I’ll vote for whoever is most likely to defeat the tories in my constituency - which is probably not going to be the greens. If we had a proportional voting system I would vote greens 💯
The only wasted to vote is one you don't believe in. Labour will win the next general election with a large majority. That's been made clear with loads of polling data for a long time. There really is no need to vote tactically at the next election because of this.
If everyone voted for who they believe in, and not just red or blue as pushed my media outlets we may at some point see some political reform
Yes but the Greens 💚 need support. Pink Tories wearing a red rosette won't deliver the change you really want. It's time to abandon the same old Tories and Tories (Labour). The Greens 💚 need you!
It also seems people on the right are more likely to vote for the party they agree with most, while people on the left seem more inclined to vote for the party that's most likely to defeat the Tories.
Those on the right are politically homeless right now. The Conservative Party has been a big let down. Many of those on the right simply won't vote.
The Greens are being squeezed by progressive minded voters determination to vote this government out.
Yep, in a first past the post Anti-democratic structure, you are either a big party to form an opposition or you are irrelevant.
True. I think they'll fair much in the next election/council elections
Same with the Lib Dem
"progressive" how is this plz?
Doubt it. People grossly overestimate how much strategic voting there is, especially when the Tories are likely going to lose the next election regardless of how progressives vote.
The main reason people won't vote for the Greens is because FPTP makes a vote for them a wasted vote in nearly every constituency.
Under PR they'd have 2 seats instead of 1 with the 2019 election results, imagine how many they'd get if people could actually vote for who they wanted, instead of voting against who they want out, I reckon they'd get 10-15% of the seats.
The one problem is the Tories and Labour don't want PR because then they lose their stranglehold on the political scene and see their neoliberal BS be challenged. Then you get those Fukiyamist bellends who hand-wring about how it will let in Reform UK or some other party. Frankly, if we had PR, Brexit would likely not have happened because then UKIP would have had seats in Parliament and the Tories would not have gone so far right as to nick votes off them.
The Greens are also strongly backing net zero policies which would destroy the living standards of everybody except the middle class and the ultra rich
Not thirr policies or anything. Nah
@@Xollob2no the voting system has always made people vote tactically to oust the tories. Every person should look at who their mp is. Both labour & greens have good MPs. Granted i cant support labour in my area. We have a good green candidate that was also nhs nurse so I trust her. The labour candidate is a centrist that supports israels bombing campaign. Its an easy choice for me.
Every vote is a wasted vote. The people with real power in the UK stay there no matter who's elected.
It's a miracle the UK has any third parties with a First Past The Post system. The UK needs proportional representation or preferential voting if the Brits want a more diverse Parliament. Look at Australia, we have one of the few Greens parties in the world that are actually have substantial political power, to the point of having the balance of power in the senate, with full power to basically veto anything the government tries to pass, which has given them a lot of leverage.
Best for the UK greens to be out of power since they're so awful on even their main issue od the environment
@@jacob2808 Yeah I've heard the UK Greens are a mess. I feel like we Aussies have one of the few Greens parties who both know what they're doing to a reasonable degree and aren't nutjobs.
I would hedge the reason Greens aren't polling as well are because they aren't polling as well and people want the tories out at any cost. I would much rather vote for Green than Labour, but there's no way I would want to risk a Tory seat. We need proportional representation
Former Brighton resident here. Lucas was a great MP and it was nice to have a psedo-independent MP who didn't need to follow the party whip too strongly. It's a shame she's stepping down.
The issues highlighted with the Green council are correct, but a lot of the issues started back when the long-term City Clean contract was signed by a Labour council. The private company that has the contract has been beset by fraud and bullying allogations and strikes from the GMB. The only way to fix that is renegoriating the contract.
The "anti-car" issues with the Green council are true though on a Brighton & Hove level, but I think it's much less of an issue for those in the central Pavilion constiuancy, which have seen more benefits and less downsides to discouraging people from driving in the centre of the city.
It will be a shame if the Greens loose their seat in Brighton, but it seems to be about 50/50 depending on how hard Labor campaign there. They went pretty hard when Lucas was basically a given, so I'd expect them to throw a lot at it this time.
That's bollocks the greens Were in charge in brighton for many yrs it's on their head can't blame lab !!
Same with my old council - Thurrock. They gave all their money away to a trickster/ fraudster who claimed he was giving them wind farms. Then he ran off to Dubai, the city of no morals.
Having lived in Brighton I honestly don’t understand why people would want to drive in the city centre. Public transport is quicker, and there’s excellent provision for cyclists and pedestrians. We used to get the bus into the centre then walk.
Definitely recommend voting Green. We need more 3rd parties/independents in parliament. The two party dichotomy is dangerous. Indies/3rd parties are often better MPs as they have to work harder to keep their seats so they spend more time working for their constituents where as many tories and labour are just in it for money and power. They often become or are corrupt. My Tory MP hasn’t had a surgery in like 3 years and is impossible to get in contact with.
@@ffotograffydd ever dealt with an autistic meltdown on a bus?
Greens need proportional representation to really blossom
1:52 that isn’t the same party- unlike the other main parties which just have branches (or state parties as they’re called in the Lib Dems) the greens are three separate parties... Green Party of England and Wales, the Scottish Green Parry and the Northern Irish one.
The Northern Irish Party is a branch of the Irish greens!
@@FmcL-ur7tn ohh I didn’t know that!!
The Scottish greens and the Green Party are not the same party the same way scottish labour and labour are. They have different leadership, different ideologies (Scottish greens are pro independence) and do not stand together in U.K. elections. The Green Party has 0 representation in the Scottish parliament.
The Scottish Green party is a fully seperate party from the green party of England and Wales, with different policies (much more pro trans rights, pro Scottish independence, etc.), leadership, etc.
clearly not as shit as the England and Wales greens as they're actually in government!@@WesternGodsZZ
So just as terrible as the SNP
Ah so even more bullshit, nice.
Based
I feel so bad for people who genuinely care for the environment and ecology, but have to deal with stuff like that.
Why?
First!
Past!
The!
Post!
I'll be voting Green in the safe Labour seat I live in...
Same here
Same
Also the Green party in general is a deeply ideological party that is already competing with the Labour and Lib Dem parties for votes. It's hard to break out of that niche without moderation. Even the German Greens in a PR system eventually moderated.
Deeply ideological? If a political party doesn't have an ideology, how do you know what you are voting for?
The obvious solution to this would be to scrap FPTP in favour of a long overdue Proportional Representation (normal or Mixed Member). But it's obvious the Tories don't want that and despite the NEC voting in favour of it, Starmer and his ilk in the Labour right don't want it either because then that would mean actually listening to the people rather than oligarchs who run the newspapers and the donor class and just being all round complacent.
The key issue with the greens is that under the current voting system, they're essentially irrelevant. If I could vote for them with the confidence that that vote wouldn't be interpreted by the system as "one less vote for the only party that stands a chance of unseating the Tories" then I would absolutely vote for them (subject to due diligence)
I am in exactly that situation - I live in an incredibly safe Labour seat (the last non-Labour MP here was in the early 1930s) so I can vote Green to boost their national vote share without worrying about letting the Tories in.
In my constituency the numbers favour a contest between Green and tory. Lib dem and labour merely mess with that two horse race.
There is only one place I've ever lived that ran a Green MP candidate. FPTP is the single biggest block on alternative parties getting seats and people voting for those they feel actually represent them.
Proportional Representation (PR) is the answer
Normal or Mixed Member?
Proportional Representation is a terrible system, Ranked Voting is the way forwards
No it isn't. Look at Holland or Belgium.
Convenient that you didn’t mention FPTP and how many people do not see the point in voting green under that electoral system…
When the BBC and GBeebies showcase Richard Tice you have your answer.
Richard Tice has got more than his fair share of air time. The media is biased towards the right-wing
Doesn't help if you don't even mention the names of their co-leaders.
Imagine making a whole video about why greens don't get votes and not mentioning FPTP ONCE!!!
Imagine blaming a non factor over past conduct and policies
@@Xollob2.... imagine FPTP being well past its sell by date, and the UK being profoundly undemocratic under 14 years of Tory mismanagement and incompetence.....oh it is - on both counts!!
It's time to ditch the Tories, and their beloved FPTP Electoral system, and become a properly democratic country fit for the 21st century. Then other countries might start to respect us again. Especially the rest of Europe.
@@robtyman4281 imagine any other party blaming fptp. As for tory mismanagement,sure,if you ignore that they have been a Labour government for30 years
@@Xollob2 the lib dems regularly blame first past the post? So did UKIP... All small parties in the UK are disadvantaged by first past the post.
I find it funny that of all issues, trans issues are dividing the Green party. You would think that a Green party would be hyperfocused on the environment and so a social issue like this should not even be a topic of discussion for them, or at least that's what I would think, but here we are I guess.
They're not even answering questions about this. Emails have gone unanswered. I've voted for them because of the green policies, but these are based on science and it doesn't look like they actually understand the most basic biology now. They've undermined their position and we're reluctantly looking at other parties.
Don't think it helps that you don't have the current green party leaders in the thumbnail, kinda explains one problem.
yep. the expectation that "nobody knows who they are" removes opportunities to find out who they are.
You can’t just blame first past the post. How then do Reform have 12% and rising, which is closing the gap with the Tories mere 20%?
I dont want to vote conservative but I also can't bring myself to vote labour in case of a landslide and them doing something stupid.
And everyone else is a wasted vote.
I may have to vote Reform in the hopes it force electoral reform.
Because being environmentally friendly has nothing to do with (directly) immigration, NHS, employement, taxation etc, they only have a real voice on one issue.
That’s not been the case in all the time that Greens have stood as MPs. They have a detailed manifesto and policy platform across the board. More detailed than any of the other parties from what I can see.
Tbh i think it would be better if we had shit like MMP, STV or approval voting cause then we can see who is best
I'm still upset the AV referendum was used as a protest vote against nick clegg. It would have been so much better than fptp
It was crap. Opaque and not very proportional. STV or nothing
@@daraorourke5798 how was it opaque? it was better then FPTP
Former member of the Green party. After 2015, they became increasingly obsessed with culture wars rubbish.
I vote Labour now, as they are more focused on policy than playing identity politics.
do the current labour leadership have a single actual policy which isn't being marginally better than the tories
@@Alexander-vo4gv doesn't matter much. Marginally better is still better and, in FPTP systems, you vote for the least worst option that has a chance of winning.
@@Alexander-vo4gvYes, loads. You're just too lazy to look past aesthetics
Well, if you don't like identity politics as you say, Labour is hardly the party for you 🤣
@philosophi4911 Labour never talk about identity politics. Its always the Tories ranting about THE STUPID FAT TRANSES! THEY RUINS EVERYTHING!
I'd like it if we just leave the transes alone and fix the real issues
Speaking of Greens, the City of Brisbane, Australia is expected to have a Green Wave in both the Local & State election this year in March 16 & October 26
Well done Australia. Setting the bar.
I mean in under 50s the greens are on par with the conservatives at like 10% each!
because the greens will put up energy bills and will also harm businesses with high energy costs
It's the Tories who put up energy bills! 😂😂
The Scottish Greens are technically a separate party, although they work with the Greens in England and Wales a lot.
As someone who hangs out beyond the left-hand side of the Overton Window, I'd say that discussion, certainly on BreadTube is increasingly of the vibe that the Greens are the only viable option for voting left. Maybe that will pick up steam, maybe it will result in broader left support but I have the strong feelingthat this next GE will be a low turnout election of hopelessness rather than the Green Party making a statement via protest votes.
A point you touched upon but is a factor, why are they so ideologically wedded to the idea of having two leaders? Evidence shows that this is not an election winning strategy and could contribute to the problem of nobody knowing who they are.
Because we are like turkeys voting for Christmas .
Minor parties like the greens that work over the entire country tend to not do well in FPTP systems, which is also the case in Canada. Even where STV are used, single seat systems, their impact is limited. They do better in Proportional Representation like in New Zealand and Germany or with Australia's upper house.
I think one issue against the Greens you didn't mention is the international element. The Greens in the UK are associated with the Greens in other countries. And in other countries, the Greens are also performing poorly.
You could argue this about all the parties though, they all have international sister parties across the globe.
@@veganfishcake yes and no - Labour in Canada might impact the image of Labour in the UK, but Labour in Australia really doesn't. But in any case, they aren't in local UK news nearly as often as the German Greens or the Swedish Greens.
@@davidray6962 what about the Australian Greens or even the New Zealand Greens who were in a coalition nationally with Labour there? Why are only the less left wing Green Parties mentioned?
@@veganfishcake Again, because they would receive mention in local UK news more often. Not to make light of the Antipodes, but they are literally on the other side of the world from Britain. What goes on only a ferry ride away has slightly more immediacy.
No one knows who their leaders are it kind of epitomizes the situation when the picture on this video is of a leader who has had a number of replacements since ( it would be like portray labour with Blair or the tories with Michael Howard).
We, as voters, don't benefit from First Past The Post voting. The two entrenched parties do. Make. Votes. Matter.
They’re full of NIMBYs
Greens ain’t even running in the Dales so I can’t vote them if I wanted 😂
Australias Senate is equivalent to the voter % and its ranked choice for House so the Greens get a chance and have a considerable minorty %
I find it interesting that the Green Party in Australia also had a blood soaked faction fight. But that one was between the Environmental faction and the Marxist faction. The former group won and purged most (but not all) Marxists from their party.
It'd be a horrific continuation of dehumanising trends if the party's decision to stand with trans rights internally could be explained as a reason for electoral loss.
0:23 Why does the logo of one of UK's parties looks like a house that has fallen on its side?
That's the logo of The Brexit Party (now called the Reform UK Party I believe). Not to be confused with UK Indipendance Party (UKIP) which is primarily responsible for initiating Brexit, but it is run by Nigel Farrage who was the leader of UKIP but left it after the Brexit vote to start the Brexit Party. The house on it's side thus is entirely appropriate, although probably not what they intended it to represent, much like Brexit 😂
I often hear people saying tories and labour are the same. This is completely wrong. The Tories are ideologically opposed to any state funded services and infrastructure. When they have such a policy to get votes they don't bother enacting it properly. Labour on the other hand actually want good outcomes for people and the country.
The editor of the Finacial Times just said she sees little difference between the two parties economically
That's a bit worrying if you're hoping for a change from the existing status quo
In 2010 you could:
- get an NHS dentist
- see a GP promptly
- get NHS hospital care in less than a year
- send your kids to school without fear of the roof falling in
- reliably commute to work on the trains
Labour is far from perfect but a far better option than the alternative. They will invest effectively and get services working otherwise the billionaire owned media will shred them. The same media never holds the tories to account and they get away with murder.
To really improve UK politics we need to ditch FPTP and get PR.
I wouldn’t vote for the Greens for the same reason I would not have voted for Corbyn…
Which is what exactly?
Why aren't they doing well? Simple. It always comes back to the issue with FPTP.
I'm not all of the way through the video yet but its pretty much their entire defense strategy that I disagree with. I don't like spending money on something I REALLY don't want us to use EVER, but I'd rather spend the money and not use it than need it and not have it in any international landscape- but particularly in the currently very turbulent one.
Also their anti nuclear weapons policy leaks into their nuclear energy policy. I remember a TLDR interview with greens leader a few years back where they said they wouldn't support nuclear power or research because it would always be turned into weapons
what does needing a nuclear weapon look like?
Thanks
FPTP means that voting for a minority party makes it more likely one of the main parties will gain power through a minority vote, so tactical voting takes precedence over voting for whatever party aligns closest with your values.
The Green Party occupies a different plane of reality, so is broadly unelectable.
1) The want to raise £250bn in income taxes from the top 1% and so send our wealth creators overseas. This 1% pays around 30% of all income tax with the highest rate at 45% plus National Insurance. Last year, the UK received £1,029 bn, so the top 1% paid around £308.7bn. Taking another £250bn means the top 1% will hand over almost all their income in tax.
2) They want to freeze rents and so send landlords exiting the market.
3) Thereon, as we know many green and climate claims rely on psuedo scientific studies that are either ludicrous or outright lies. That is not to say, there are not environmental issues, but polar bears are at their highest numbers on record, EVs are far more damaging to the planet than ICEs, and vegetarian diets worsen international freight and make up over 50% of CO2.
4) Their "trans" policies are central to their politics (except their splinter women's group) and were a condition of the Bute House Agreement, which have been debunked again by yet another study - the Cass Report.
That is not to say the mainstream parties do not have their faults, but they are less worse.
I legitimately spit out my coffee and laughed uncontrollably when I heard that the internal split was over trans issues. Never change, TERF island
please do fucking change actually
@@findtheblue I mean yeah, obviously. But I can't help but laugh in the face of such immense and unending shittiness, since there's nothing I personally can do about it
Keep your bs out of the UK
@@Besthinktwice I agree, the general opinion of Britons is not especially reactionary in the matter. However, the so-called intellectual class of the UK has had a weird obsession with trans issues for about a decade now.
Even that wouldn't be particularly noteworthy by itself (the US has a similar situation without being labelled as an especially anti-trans country) if it wasn't for the fact that this rhetoric is driven in equal amounts by both the usual suspects (i.e. social conservatives) as it is by supposed progressive and feminist types.
And respectfully, there is no other "radical opposite" to the transphobes. Teenagers saying "k*ll all cis people" on Twitter are not materially significant, while the anti-trans organizers participating in stochastic terrorism against trans people are undeniably making their countries more dangerous for trans people.
@@Besthinktwiceit’s funny actually how you are completely wrong in nearly every way in this comment, but that’s completely unsurprising since you are without a doubt not trans
The greens will never get anywhere under the first past the post system. Even if people prefer their policies, FPTP doesn't promote voting for who you actually want.
If only the Irish Greens were this unpopular. The consensus in Ireland is that Eamon Ryan is the worst political figure in the history of the state
Indeed. The Greens are in their second governing coalition here iirc. Widely despised. Bourgeois hypocrites who seem to despise the working class. They'll disappear at the next election as will their appalling Scottish counterparts.
This video misses out completely on the biggest reason there are fewer Green MPs: the undemocratic first-past-the-post electoral system in the UK. Under proportional representation, with 5% of the vote, the Green Party would have over 30 MPs.
As someone who broadly agrees with their aims - they don't seem like a serious party of leadership, none of them seem like the sort of people I'd want handling complicated geopolitics, there's a lot of wishful thinking where I'd prefer boring, practical policies, and the whole disarm Trident/no nuclear/CND thing is cringe af - you aren't my mum's fridge door, guys...
Same reason the Lib Dems and Reform reach a ceiling with their vote share - FPTP. That's why I'll happily vote for any party that isn't Tory or Labour. The other reason is they appeal to a very narrow demographic - overwhelmingly white, middle or upper class, and very progressively minded folk might vote Green, but others won't give them a second look.
In a 2 party system it's just a wasted vote for me.
If this was a minority opinion the way things would change
It will always be a two party system with that attitude
@@johnyendall9377 What do you want me to do? Until we get proportional representation I'm stuck.
I can't stand the Tories, and have to vote Labour to remove them.
I hate the tories but i hate labour more i am voting reform i know they will not get elected but at least i have done the right thing in my mind and will take no flack for the absolute sh%% show thats coming our way if any of the main two get in @@steveozone4910
@@steveozone4910 most constituencies aren't actually Tory/Labour marginals
FPTP is a large part of it, but I think another part of it is that Greens cannot actually talk about what needs to be done. If they talk about people recycling a bit more and increasing wind energy, the electorate will accept that, but it's hardly earthshaking. If they talk about re-greening, withdrawal from marginal areas, drastically reducing electricity consumption and forcing people out cars into public transport, the electorate shudder and look away.
A lot of our climate aims could be met if we went a bit harder on wind, to be fair.
@@samuelmelton8353 One of the problems facing wind - especially offshore wind - is that it clashes with Defence. Long-range radars have issues with very large, spinning objects between them and a target. They are not easily fix-able issues either. With Russia becoming more and more of a problem, I can't see the MoD giving up easily.
@@onenote6619 Thanks for letting me know, I was not aware - do you know any good articles on the topic?
If the UK doubled its wind, it would seriously eat into natural gas, so it would be good to find solutions to this.
Will watch .... but my answer before watching is "Lack of Proportional Representation" I used to vote Green for MEPs because of PR but its a wasted vote for Westminster
Since I believe nuclear energy is the only way to eliminate fossil fuels, I consider green parties the worst environmental and economic threat.
Nuclear waste is a huge and expensive problem, and can leak into the environment, causing contamination of the local area.
Not all green parties oppose nuclear though. For instance, Finland's, UK's and possibly even more green parties have a pro-nuclear stance.
What happens to Sizewell nuclear plant when the sea levels rise?
@@moomin7461 You overestimate the amount of nuclear wastes and the risks of any leak. But the point is that reaching net zero without nuclear is almost impossible, at least not without *huge* changes in people way of life.
@@moomin7461 sure to summarize, but the discussion is broad.
1) all energy sources produce toxic and/or radioactive waste, including renewables such as solar and wind. Trivially due to the supply chain of mineral resources.
2)Nuclear waste can be recycled in FBRs
3) If you don't recycle them, they are placed in a geological repository where they cannot have interference with the surface environment.
4) If you don't use nuclear power you have to use fossil fuels, whose waste goes into the air we breathe (as opposed to waste).
5) The data says that for the same amount of energy produced, nuclear power is among the sources that cause fewer deaths.
Nowadays, environmental issues are part of most parties's agenda. To focus on a single aspect affecting our life is insufficient.
They do have a lot of other policies on their manifesto.
Also Greens aren't very strong on economic policies (a lot of green policies are ideological rather than practical). People are suffering with the cost of living crisis so would prefer practical solutions.
I'm guessing you haven't read our many pages of economic policies?
Moving from fossil to renewable will massively help cost of living, especially if we keep seeing international events that disrupt shipping
@@markwelch3564 you can't entirely move off until you have another stable energy supply like nuclear. Also in the UK you pay at the rate for the most expensive unit of energy so at the moment it doesn't matter if you have 1 million wind turbines, when you need a stable supply (like gas) then your energy cost is the price of gas (system needs changing).
@@veganfishcake no one really knows to be honest. Mostly hear about rent controls and eco sustainability, sounds like no more houses will be built. Breaking up the major house developers is a good idea but then again you still need someone to build.
@@Pirake123 we have a policy website with many different policy areas which outline our economic policies, not just the small bits you've come across in the media. Why not take a read?
Because most people know the Greens are watermelons. They are green on the outside but red/socialists/communists on the inside.
IMO, I think it’s because a lot of progressives choose to stick with Labour.
AND because the Greens are too much to the left. And are seen as unserious compared to the Greens in like Germany etc.
Progressive is an American political term, it has a lot of negative connotations that the UK left majority don't want, thanks.
I used to be a member of the Green party, but after 2015 they became increasingly obsessed with culture wars rubbish, as some might say, they went 'woke'.
I vote Labour now, as they are more focused on policy than playing identity politics.
@@fubar12345 Progressives are a Negative term in US as well. In Fact majority of US democratic Party would fit well with Tories and Lib Dems
u mean tge same German greens that voted to close nuclear power plants and keep coal plants open?
So to summerize why greens the west world over aren´t doing so hot. "The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own."
Against nuclear power which most people are for, against rail infrastructure schemes, for NIMBYs, and against building in general - people will not take kindly to this, especially as both main parties at least pay lip service to climate policies
Yeah, they're a joke of a party and that's the real reason nobody supports them. If they supported Nuclear i would at least have respected them.
How can they be against building and also be in favour of mass immigration.
@@CB-fz3li Worst party in the country that's how
just as an outsider looking in, specifically Australian looking in
would FPTP not have smthn to do with this?
In Australia the last election saw what is likely going to happen this election in the UK where the whole country just goes "urgh get these fucks OUT" and even then the (Australian) Greens gained 3 seats, and 1.85% of the first preference vote
and that is simply because in Australia, we have Preferential Voting, which is so much better for smaller parties, allowing them to gain votes because people don't feel like they're wasting them, thus allowing a smaller parties, like The Greens, to gain at an election even when the entire country is universally deciding "fuck the Lib/Nats get em out"
So, how are Albo and Labor working out for you?
The Green's are also a victim of their own success, due to their status as a Centre-Left to Left-Wing Party, they mostly take all their votes from people who otherwise would be voting Labour. You can argue that the Green Party have served unfortunately as a 'spoiler' candidate in 2015 and 2019, helping the Tories to much larger majorities than they should of have. This is why we have seen Kier Starmer and co. heavily push Labour towards environmentalism. Many prior Green policies have basically been adopted by Labour, a Kier Starmer's government is expected based on what has been stated to be very environmental in contrast to previous Labour administrations. The Green Party finds themselves without a leg to stand on. Why vote Green when Labour are now effectively offering the same thing and are much more likely to get into office.
This is very much not the case. Havant is one of the deepest blue parts of the country, yet we took a seat off the Tories in Emsworth. There are many people who normally vote Tory who are disillusioned with the party.
There's still big differences between Green and Labour. Labour still lag on housing and economic investment
If you want to show that these things are important to you, a Green vote is a good way to express this at the ballot box
I wouldn't look at this as a failure of the Green party. I think the purpose of small parties like the Greens under a FPTP system is not to get into office themselves, but to influence the policies of the two main parties. By forcing Labour to adopt green policies in order to win back voters, the Greens will see parts of their agenda enacted without ever needing to be in government. The same thing happened on the right with Brexit. Cameron had to hold a referendum he didn't want, essentially because of pressure on the Tory vote from UKIP.
Gotta love the concept of "soiler candidates." After all, why improve anything when you can stick with everyone else and vote for the old and busted?
Corbyn had the green new deal. Starmer is just following Biden with watered down policies.
Why? Because they operate outside of reality.
Seeing every single political party turn so hardline against trans rights is heartbreaking. Not a good look when the US Democrats are significantly more progressive than you on any issue.
Agreed. I just wish people would stop othering trans people and their rights by describing it as an "issue". Imagine describing any other minority group that way - it would be completely unacceptable.
@@Foxymoron88 We don't have to imagine it, it's exactly the same as the gay panic 40-50 years ago.
The arguments are word-for-word the same, from as general as "But the toilets!" to as specific as "Older lesbians/trans men are grooming sweet, innocent, fertile young girls who are too stupid to know what they really want."
The Greens didn't turn against trans people. A subgroup wanted to, they weren't supported by the leadership or the membership, and are no longer in the party.
The Green's most recent manifesto - and their key figures - support further protections for trans people
Why would they be doing better? Wasting a vote aren’t you. UK is generally moderate centre ground, you aren’t going to get mass appeal just on either of the wings.
I’m spoiling my ballot regardless haha - they’re all awful and there’s no true socialist option anymore
Socialist workers party?
As usual go straight to comments for proper conversation and correct analysis
voting green is a luxury vote. UK voters are not in a position to prioritise green issues.
Read their policies. They are very working people friendly ... and hate the rich.
The UK and USA share a common issue - FPTP voting. In Rushcliffe in the UK, the conservatives held with 28,700 votes Labour got 21,000 and Lib Dems got 9,600. More people didn't vote for the conservatives than did. How is that a representative result? Lib dems ended with 11 seats last election. That's 1.69% actual representation in the commons despite getting 11.5% of the vote. Again, how is this representative?
More people would vote for actually decent candidates, across parties and beliefs, if they knew their vote wasn't just going to be like pissing into the wind. Instead, we're forced to vote for either Labour or Conservative. Two parties to represent all whites, blacks, asians, old, young, rich, poor... The entire system presents an entirely false sense of representation. 56.4% of voters did NOT want the conservatives in power in 2019. Yet here we are...
I never thought people would be so pro car brained
How do people get around then genius? This is the problem with green progressives like you, you live in La La land. All the goods, cargo and shipping containers going to be delivered to Brighton city center by bicycle is it?
Why, cars are great for our current road system.
We just need to find a better source of energy.
Or change the infrastructure.
People use cars because of inadequate public transport which is slow, expensive, and unreliable. Bring more buses, more trains, make them really cheap and more frequent, then people will happily ditch their cars. But the government is not willing to invest in such a thing. That's why we still have this problem in the first place.
@@Besthinktwicethey really don’t.
@@Besthinktwice better think twice yourself smooth brain
As a German with full residency rights, I am aware that the Green Party are doing very well here in the beautiful Norfolk Broads. Also, Fun Fact: the tories have not one single councillor in the city of Norwich, which shows how progressive it is. I will vote tactically in the general election (if one is ever held), although I will be returning to Germany in about a year. Good luck everyone!
First Past the Post inhibits 3rd Party development. In nations using FPTP smaller parties often succeed somewhat due to REGIONAL appeal. e.g. SNP gets seats appealing to Scotch nationalism, Bloc Quebecois appeals to Quebec nationalism. Remember there was once a Right split from Labour called Social Democrats. After slight success they ended up merging with Lib Dems.
Being from Scotland and having to live with the rules the green party made, which are blanket rules and are not fit for the whole of Scotland. They might be fine rules for lowland inshore areas, but when used on coastal areas the new rules cause more heating poverty. The quicker we can remove them from power the better
Thank you.
As a queer person living in the UK it is heartbreaking to me that the only party committed to not eroding the rights of my community is of no interest to the average Brit.
Be serious though. The Tories aren’t going to go back as they’d be destroyed if they went too far back.
And Labour going back on it at all would destroy them.
@@gameofender4463 why? Look at the us? It's easy to make a success out of cruelty.
Any advancement in LGBTQ+ rights has been through our own organisation as a community pushing against the political parties in charge and by gaining power within them through emboldening individual allies and getting people elected in the right places.
The Greens do have a stronger LGBTQ+ contingent than in most parties, however they will not get elected under FPTP. So we need a way to change the electoral system and/or ensure that vocal allies in the major parties get elected. They might not all be well known names now, but they might be in years to come.
It's not as if when LGBTQ+ activists in the 80s were trying to get the Labour Party to support the community that we were getting much of a hearing, listen to some of the people in the Lesbians and Gays Support The Miners movement or to Peter Tatchell. But after Kinnock was gone, things began to change. Blair made a quiet deal with Stonewall just prior to his massive landslide win.
@@PlurCo This isn’t America. We’re not as right-wing as them.
The Scottish Greens oppose NATO, gladly abandoning the people of Eastern Europe to be crushed by Russia, which is a regime that would eagerly destroy you for who you are. Knowing that, do you not think the Scottish Greens would abandon you if you were no longer politically convenient for them, just like the Baltic peoples are politically inconvenient for wanting nuclear protection, liberal democracy, capitalism and integration with the West after experiencing what communism did to them?
if it was single transferable vote Greens would do amazing.. the voting system atm is very unrepresentative of peoples actual vote.
The greens are a bit nutty
Fact Check: 'The Scottish Greens' party and 'The Greens' are very much separate from each other, with them each having their own independent leadership structure, and both having key policy differences, crucially over the issue of Scottish Independence.
- This is different from the Scottish Labour Party and the Labour Party, as Scottish labour is essentially just a branch of the overall Labour party.
After being made fun of for years… people who oppose green policies for working class reasons are now starting to gain traction.
People like you are made fun of because you’re all so incredibly thick. Green policies lower bills and make our cities safer (e.g. reduce air pollution so less people die prematurely). There is no green agenda- these policies benefit EVERYONE (especially the poorest in society) which is why the tories and their billionaire mates feel so threatened by them. If you are ‘working class’ as you say you are, you should be supporting green policies.
Interesting that the Tories won a council seat in Hackney, London this week. It was a Labour seat prior to this weeks election.
What really doesn't help their case is the voting system (same goes for Reform, and to a lesser extend the Lib Dems). The system makes people feel that any non-Labour vote (or non-Lib Dem in certain constituencies) is effectively a vote for the Tories, so the appeal of the smaller parties falls off a cliff. This was shown in the last round of EU elections where the Brexit Party (now Reform) and the Greens garnered a huge proportion of votes.
Also, ah trans issues, the scenario where people who just want to live their lives get turned into political footballs...
I support trans rights but it has nothing to do with the environment and has put off a lot of other voters who do actually care about the environment
@@FatRonaldo1 So in this whacky world you live in, if the greens won an election they should just focus on climate and nothing else NHS can rot, Police reform whatever, housing crisis leave it right? not part of green policy leave it alone.
If you break it down by age. More people are looking to vote green than Tory, but there are more over 50 people who vote than under 50 so you get that low voter number