Ex-Fujitsu engineer: the Post Office ‘clearly wanted me to say everything was perfect’
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Post Office Horizon IT inquiry continues with Gareth Jenkins, former distinguished engineer at Fujitsu Services Ltd.
Jenkins was quizzed by Lead Council to the Inquiry, Jason Beer KC, who asked him "Did you feel that there was pressure applied to you by the Post Office to provide evidence in Mrs Misra’s case that conformed to the Pst Office’s expectations?”. Jenkins replied, “Yes they clearly wanted me to say everything was perfect.”
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I did not realise that there are so many people with memory loss in the UK. Appears that the post office employed them all!!
some of this stuff is 15/20 years old. He has been retired for a decade
No kidding, and these documents/meetings/phone calls were so repetitive. There was nothing to distinguish any one case. Horizon says you ‘owe’…..’Your money or your life’😢!!!
The people have forgot Grenfell Towers. There is something wrong with the British working class!
@@DrMontague I'd agree, people keep voting for the same politicians/parties despite the fact that their performance has been absolutely demonstrably dire for many decades.
And?
Now he can put the blame on someone or somebody else his memory loss is over!! How amasing...
A cowardly man caught between two forms of cowardice. Scared of losing his job through refusing to lie at the time, scared of being held responsible for that lie
@ChrisBrowm-or8ky. That’s exactly how I felt watching him. Hem and hawed all the way through
The worst kind of coward
After today, I feel very sorry for Gareth Jenkins. I think he was set up by POL and Fujitsu to be the fall guy. They must have seen him coming and knew he had no curiousity beyond his narrow remit of coding and tech stuff. He could be told what to do without questioning it. I think Beer is aware of this. He got close today to leading Jenkins into naming names.....
He doesn’t seem to comprehend the damage his statements have made ! A pregnant woman sentenced along with others.
Having to give birth with a Tag on her ankle, terrible .
She shouldn't have had children then.
Lack of empathy .
He can't see the post masters as human. Otherwise his whole moral edifice collapses.
@@caxuulikomlike your mother
This man needs to be carefully wrapped, weighed at the Post Office & sent to jail!
Who was the defence team Mrs Misra had? They didn't do very well.
Who were all the solicitors and barristers representing people that were incorrectly prosecuted?
They were deceived by prosecutors/post office, who did not comply with legal requirements to disclose information that would have been helpful to the Misra defence.
Post office lawyers did not disclose important evidence to Mrs Misra solicitors which would have helped her case. That's one of the issues the enquiry is looking at.
and the Union also took the side of the PO and not the people in the union they represented. Also, its in some of the emails that the PO said they would bankrupt people who tried to fight them. Sad.
Yes, like 'Mr GJ Did you personally fully investigate all original data, logs, helpdesk logs, known error logs and anything else that might be relevant to this case and are you 100% sure that my client is at fault. If so, where is the record of alleged fault or faults proving theft or malfeasance'?
@@tramdryes , and now the post office is basically bankrupt 😂
I was ready on Tuesday to hate this guy. Now I am rather sorry for a bloke who, it seems, will pay an incredibly heavy price for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For once his incompetence is plain to see and is not being used to disguise malicious behaviour like those more senior to him.
I think ultimately he’s a patsy in the same way as Oswald. Yes he pulled the trigger but there were plenty around him to either ensure that he did or to take his place if he didn’t or missed.
Doesn’t matter what they wanted you to say pal, you were under oath.
That must mean the oath means nothing then?
@@mikedavis-kp1sx It would seem that to be the case, of most of the Post Office staff.
@@mikedavis-kp1sx He and many others being investigated for perjury , I suspect a few charges will be laid at the end of this inquiry and a few lawyers disbarred.
Yes these people must be made an example off they are NOT above the law
Wouldn't hold your breath this goes all the way to top of government Sir Edward Davey knew and he's now crawling about TV stations saying he wished he'd bla bla fuckn rat bla
Clearly had some coaching in providing answers but Beer and his team clearly came armed with the facts that undermine and expose any attempt to claim they were not aware the faults in the system and the faults in their evidence used to convict others.
How does he manage to get out of bed and dress himself on a morning?
IT expert?!!
There are a lot of superficial judgements being made here that fail to recognise the complexities of human behaviour. Jenkins seems more naive and hapless than some other witnesses, and his part in the scandal appears to have been more about caught up in the storm rather than deliberately creating it. I am sure being titled ‘Distinguished’ and then used as the system expert appealed to his vanity. Quite a natural human response, particularly when he had been so involved in designing Horizon. His lack of recall is not so strange with the passage of time, albeit that it is quite convenient at times. His apparent lack of awareness of such things as disclosure and liability is unsurprising. How many people ever read, and understand, the details of contracts and agreements?
It’s true….and there were millions of such people in nazi germany doing exactly the same…just keeping their head down, doing their little bit of a job….and never daring to add 2 plus 2 and never dare to acknowledge to themselves what they were actually contributing to.
The problem here is two fold: 1. you can't use an expert witness who is spending 90% of his time + focus on identifying + fixing system anomalies. That's simply where his focus is - on the TECHNICAL job. Two hats - no good.
2. You can't EMPLOY AN EXPERT WITNESS WHO IS CONTRACTED TO /EMPLOYED BY THE PROSECUTING COMPANY.
There are massive conflicts of interest at every level and nobody actually flagged anything. Of course the guy that designed the system is going to say it works, his bread and butter depends on it!
So the question is why did defence council not flag this in court?
not sure that's right - the prosecution can call who ever they like so long as the witness is competent, qualified and the evidence given is relevant if your calling a person as an independent witness that's another issue but that's usually a defence matter - the general rule he who asserts must prove
@@Bristolcentaurus "Expert witness" has a specific legal definition here, rather than "a witness with expertise" - they have a duty to the court by providing an "unbiased" opinion on the subject matter they have expertise for. It is possible for one or both parties to provide an expert witness, but care has to be taken to maintain their impartiality as far as is possible - which clearly hasn't happened here given Post Office and others appear to be dictating his written reports.
@@jasoncookuk but was he called as an expert (usually by the defence) or a witness for the prosecution because he was familiar with the system
Gareth Jenkins was not a good expert witness because he believed that Horizon was robust, as stated many times by him from the outset. No curiosity to investigate or entertain other scenarios. He did not see his actions as culpable in jailing postmasters on limited evidence. On the other hand, it was the Post Office who were aggressively pursuing these convictions. If only POL had actually investigated why these inconsistencies had occurred, rather than just going straight into income recovery mode, we would not be here today. I think POL is more culpable than Fujitsu.
I understand the different conflicts of interest from having a current employee of a Fijitsu whose product/system was the subject of much criticism during these trials, having this gentleman as an expert witness for the plaintiff would be an automatic red flag to the defence attorneys surely!!! Yes, he could provide a witness statement and be interrogated on that basis as a witness of fact but not as an independent expert witness. This is a major oversight on the part of the defence attorneys as well unless they waived any claims of the appearance or actual existence of a conflict of interest. I think we should also hear from the defense attorneys. Notwithstanding, what the post office did was just mafia/attrition tactics. Disgusting stuff to hear!
We'll have to wait and see, but my final impression from today was that Jenkins was only discredited as an expert witness (by the Post Office) because he raised an eyebrow at the P.O.'s legal team for using his generic report to prosecute individual cases. He's off the hook (sort of) and the blame can be laid at the feet of the Post Office and its legal representatives.
So good to see and hear a guy 1:19 who just didn't have the back bone and ethics to stand up and say no to the PO pressure!
That makes you as guilty as them. Loser!
Sorry, an IT ‘Specialist’ (Still not convinced that term should be applied), doesn’t realise right from wrong and is unwilling to rationalise his standing on being utilised as an Expert witness and being restrained from voicing any concerns in a Legal statement which we all know is not to be treated as a work of Fiction! Hate to think he looks at his Bank statement that shows unknown withdrawals and he just accepts it because he was asked to only question the withdrawals he knows about.
Good point. But it's clear at least 90% of his focus was on playing whack-a-mole with Horizon software bugs. He just can't change his focus enough to see ANY bigger picture in his role as a witness.
I doubt his actions meet the test for participating in a criminal conspiracy. However, Mr Beer is paving the way for a HUGE settlement to (now) Plaintiff's (former Defendants) from POL, and probably FJ, too.
Personally, I think bombarding IT workers preoccupied with their regular work with legalese in emails which they are not able to well understand is an indication of failures on the part of Fujitsu's legal team. Perhaps their approach to the obtaining of expert witnesses was flawed?
@@AbAb-th5qe Fujitsu internal Legal's lack of coverage of their own employees is shocking
Technically the bugs should have been easily fixed... in my readings it seems there was a replication function to cater for data loss or failure and in that process transactions were duplicated... there could easily have been a validation check at end of day ... its all so suspicious.... i have used banks for decades and never experienced incorrect accounting.... what excuses do they have for bugs
As with all software companies like Fujitsu, their sales teams will promise the Earth to win a contract, even though the hardware and software capablities at the time may not be able to deliver the "all singing/all dancing" systems like Horizon was trying to be. Imagine running legacy Horizon using the equivalent of vintage Dell Inspiron Desktops under each post office counter. Trying to recover data due to computer freeze or power outage on those systems must have been a nightmare, and prone to all kinds of imbalances.
Software bugs will happen - that's a fact of life. The important part is identifying them in a timely manner, and having the mechanisms to recover from such issues. Being an accounting system, the transactional audit logs need to be watertight so that if a problem occurs - including power outage, connection failure or software crash - the system can either start a recovery procedure immediately, or alert of a more serious problem that requires manual intervention. The worst thing is the system carries on as if nothing has happened - because those discrepancies will amplify over time.
If - as some have suggested - the system was not fit for purpose from the start, and Post Office have been trapped by Fujitsu by not being able to audit their own systems (e.g. 50 ARQ requests per month across 18k branches), there is a clear incentive by Fujitsu to hide the problems... and they were more than happy to mislead the Post Office (and by extension, the courts) as to the robustness of a system that was clearly broken. Not that it absolves the Post Office either - ignorance might have been a genuine excuse in 1999, but you can't be that naive for 5, 10, 25 years...
@jasoncookuk the post-office new of the bugs and it seemed rather than fix it quickly or have some workaround they milked it including setting up suspense accounts to legalise those additional money... definitely very crooked all these people... how could this go on for years
@@adriandcruz188 Suspense accounts are a common part of accounting systems - as mentioned recently in the inquiry - but with a turnaround time of hours or days, not months or years.
It gave a secondary incentive to ignore the problems - they didn't have to pay for ARQ requests (which itself is crazy - you have to pay money to audit your own platform), and any disputed funds became theirs after I think 3 years.
Given how cagey people are about the bugs to a 20+ year old system to this day - you have to wonder what else they are still hiding, whether how damaging the bugs are, or whether they were just ignoring the problem and hope it would go away (while still prosecuting people based on those clearly defective systems).
You can see how malleable he is he said he should have looked into post masters being required to pay up or else when questioned about this. Luckily Sir Wyn interjected and said but you were not involved until after decisions to prosecute had been made. He is most likely on the autism spectrum takes everything literally which is probably why he is a tech guy.
Jason Beer is comfortable with Gareth Jenkins forethright honesty..
I applied for a job with the post office when asked about my health conditions. I told them I suffer from amnesia and they said great you’ve got the job when can you start 😂
I would love to see a Paula Vennells reaction video😂 She would no doubt be in tears when it suited, but the Church is always there to hold her hand, so thats ok then.
I was just following orders 🤔
Just say cant rember and you will be ok thats how easy it is
Just one problem there. Many emails exist, with many of these people being asked/instructed to complete tasks, or address issues, even at fairly senior level. As this progresses towards a full criminal trial, someone *has* to begin remembering *something* particularly as there are still evidential documents still to be released by the Post Office.....
Having worked in IT systems development for over 30 years I support Gareth 100%. He deserves a knighthood for keeping that hugely complex Horizon system running as well as it has. I'm having a T shirt made up with "I'm Backing Gareth Jenkins" on it. Hang in there Gareth, we know you were stitched up by the POL legal team and senior management psychopaths.
I was feeling very sympathetic to Gareth Jenkins on the first day (particularly after the array of characters like Jarmail Singh, the twitching Rodric Williams, Angela van den Bogerd & Paula Vennells et al), since he is clearly not a bad person and is primarily a very good technician, though out of his depth where legal matters are concerned. But he is coming to seem a rather weak and pliant person who, despite being out of his depth, was persuaded by others, and perhaps by vanity, to agree to act as an 'expert witness' when he was clearly unsuited to be one. He should have had the courage to refuse. I rather like the man, but he is the kind of person who is too easy prey for the manipulations of such as the Fujitsu managers & the Post Office management. I find in myself at times a too ready desire to please, and so sympathise with him, and also feel that I would enjoy being in his company in better circumstances - he is an interesting, and, I feel, fundamentally a good person. I wish he had turned down the request that he should become an 'expert witness'.
I wish he decided to state plainly and fully, what he saw and believed. I imagine he felt the Post Office would destroy him, also. However, eventually, he could have chosen to be a beacon of light; rather than a massive black hole. He wouldn’t have been standing alone, as things progressed. 🤔🤨
@@timothyharris4708 After the Japanese custom of giving him the title of "Distinguished" (where they probably bowed down on meeting him), it probably went to his head a bit, and he began to believe he really was an "expert" wrt to the highly complex system which handled DVLA, Road Tax Discs, Foreign Currency Exchange, Passport Applications, Benefits Payments, Pensions, Parcels, etc. etc. I'm amazed the chap lasted in IT as long as he did.
U need medical care. 😅😅😅@adrumchapelbear2187
@@timothyharris4708 "Vanity" is right. Jenkins seemed to be pleased by a newspaper article referring to him as "Professor" Jenkins, to the extent he forwarded the article to his wife
In my world presure is knowing that if I tell my boss I refuse to be a Sheep. Knowing full well that I will be out the door next week for doing so then so be it. I will be able to tell my kids I have morality. I am sure I could find other work. I guess my way of thinking does not fit in. Probably why more people do not become whistle blowers.
So , he says that for him analysis is a worry
Did this guy not to think to ask if there was a wider issue with Horizon?
Look at the captions: 'Lead Council to the Enquiry'. Counsel, for goodness sake!
really cant make my mind up about him. was he set up as a scapegoat or was he fully aware of the consequence's of his actions. think a jury need to look at him.
It's clear this is now heading for a full criminal trial......and rightly so.
I think most of the comments here have it wrong , he knew a lot about the system , not about the overall process or the operations about the Post Office or the legal system . Why should he , he was a software engineer , nothing more , nothing less and during the time period there would have been literally billions , trillions of data processed 99.9% that obviously gave no problems .
Does that man realise, he’s admitting perjury ?
Add him to the nest of adders
Not a decent man, he just did the minimum work, showed, still showing no care for a real person, who deserved the rightful assistance of the law and him as a supposed expert witness. Shame on him and his total lack of professional and personal responsibility.
*It was his love for Rev. Vennells that was Gareth Jenkins' undoing, as unrequited love often is. With his raging passion denied by the Ice Queen of Post Office Ltd. he then decided to take it out on the whole world, with the poor sub-postmasters getting the malicious fruits of his bitterness first. He wanted to send everyone on earth to prison. It's a story of profound tragedy straight out of Shakespeare, or some of the stranger episodes of 'Crossroads', like the one when Benny's goat Starry tried to set fire to the motel 😳🐐🔥Shakespeare was from Birmingham just like 'Crossroads'.*
This bloke needed to grow some balls and stand up for what is right.
Somewhat enlightening and frightening that Beer, obviously out of his depth technically and intellectually, should resort to brow beating when Jenkins gives a totally logical and valid technical explanation for his actions.
Jason Beer out of his intellectually out of his depth?!? That’s , well, ….
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Do you not understand what Beer's job is ?
Are you a bot?
who's out of their depth?@@jimmylapham3483
You must be joking
It would be justifies if he went to jail but that wouldn’t happen ! 🥲
He thinks he's a computer. Garbage in, Garbage out.
Whatever you think of Gareth Jenkins and what he did or didn’t do in the past this evidence is pretty damning against the Post Office.
If I had been a Post Office Official who participated in this Criminal Conspiracy I certainly would not like to be questioned by Jason Beer KC.
I think that he will be Sir Jason before long. He's a deputy High Court judge and I think he will be appointed after the end of this inquiry, just as Robert Jay was after Leveson.
Gareth Jenkins actually disgraced himself by appearing at Court contributing to a flawed Guilty verdict for the Defendant in the case which is beyond shameful
Your words are too kind
@@DavidWhite-x6r carefully worded to ensure the Inquiry could question him fully but it is fairly clear what people actually think about his actions
I believe him. We’ve already seen the nest of vipers running Post Office so I’m sure he was leaned on very hard by the scumbags. He was exploited and manipulated and is now their scapegoat. Doesn’t excuse what he did, but it does explain it.
Totally agree. He was a hands on techy with no management responsibility. What profit did he get out of it ? No promotion to management, which he is something he had been avoiding all his career. No financial reward as he was a salaried employee. It was an intrusion on his day job which he enjoyed doing. He was someone who enjoyed I.T. and was always available to assist others. He was manipulated by lawyers and management. As he said he was relieved when he was informed that he would no longer be required as a witness as he could then concentrate on his day job.
Sadly, Gareth is a victim, just as much as the sub-postmasters. Also, the defence lawyers for the sub postmasters (and, no doubt, the juries) were not knowledgeable enough about complex IT systems, and therfore did not go after the gaping holes in the prosecution's cases. I worked in IT for over 30 years, and if I had been on the jury, all these cases would have been "NOT GUILTY".
They saw him as an easy tool. For whatever his sins, they are nothing compared to what the high de highs at POL and Fujutsi used him for.....
Got to be some sort of medical phenomenon - Corporate Amnesia
My opinion on this guy is that he's probably a bit of a geek/very capable/even brilliant when it comes to software systems, but as you would expect a complete out of his depth naive individual when it came to legal stuff , it seems very reasonable that everything he did was being driven /decided /guided by PO legal & certain people within post office even to the point where they were telling him this is how the legal stuff works don't worry it's ok. anyone notice he rarely flinches when asked to answer a question or attempts to just say " I can't recall" etc. ! Usually those who answer without hesitance are normally telling the truth.
In my opinion, POL saw him as easy to manipulate and Fuj saw him as easy to throw under the bus.
I am minded of Eliot. From Prufrock.... no doubt an easy tool..deferential glad to be of use.... at times...... Almost, at times, the Fool
He is just a geek. It's not easy to be a geek in the middle of a wolf pack. He went from estimated technical specialist to perfekt scapegoat for the fat cats.
Not innocent but certainly not the fulcrum of evil subtly and continuously suggested by the other thugs.
He’s not just a “geek” he’s also a liar who sent people to jail based in his lies. The good news is that he is definitely going to get his collar felt when this is all over.
"geek" seems to be used here as an excuse for him to lie with impunity.
Spot on. A naive but useful idiot.
I agree, he was a very intelligent ''boffin'' who was asked to perform a function which he was unprepared for , didn't understand his duties and was used by the lawyers and PO .
@@bsastarfire250 The guy lied on oath and for a “very intelligent “ person he has a very poor memory.
Straight up lack of moral fibre...
He was a rentagob.
I've followed this witness statement over the last three days. Initially I found his evidence credible , until it was revealed that he had been informed specifically of the duties to the court regarding expert witnesses. He has tried, unsuccessfully in my opinion, to assert that he didn't realise that his expert witness statements would be taken literally. He has also displayed complete incompetance regarding expert knowledge. He might just be a gullible imbecile but never the less his statements and omissions led to some of the most disgusting verdicts in British legal history. Even during today's testimony I failed to see any real remorse for the actions that he took, or failed to take. I hope he gets ripped apart at tomorrow's hearing.
I agree about his incompetence and the dire consequences for those innocent sub post masters/ mistresses. However, I think he is a nerdy guy who has a real problem understanding and interpreting people, his instructions (or the lack of them and most certainly in seeing the big picture. Obviously clever in some ways, but limited in others. I'm not sure what his capacity may be to think outside the narrow silows he constructs for himself, or even feel empathy. I see him more as limited rather than calculating or cruel. I am struggling to decide how culpable he may be.
@@ralphbrooks2132 Yes I agree 100%. Having watched today's testimony especially the questioning by his own lawyer I've somewhat revised my opinion. I think both Fujitsu and POL were looking for a useful idiot to fulfill their requirements. He may have made eroneous statements but I'm not sure that he did it maliciously.
More damning evidence against Post Office. What is Paula Vennells' reaction while watching these inquiries in her multi-million dollar home? She must be running very, very scared.
She must be thinking when am I going to prison,can I plan a holiday?am I going to see the gran kids growing up etc
I wish I thought that were true. She will have a get out of gaol card - her kind always do.
Well I hope she is!
Mantra: "I realize that now. I didn't think of it at the time."
Oddly enough, though it could be described as his mantra, I think he might mean it. He seems to have been extraordinarily incurious about the consequences of all this for others . He seemed to fixate on certain themes, grossly lacking in imagination, he made a lot of assumptions, misconstruing many things. He would appear to have had no idea about the big picture. He is pedantic, whilst at the same time casual and slap-dash about many aspects of his approach to the details. He is a strange fish, but should never have been trusted as an expert witness.
@@ralphbrooks2132 You are spot on. He had tunnel vision and no curiousity.
The man's an idiot. While attempting to throw the post office under the bus he's effectively admitted that he intentionally mislead the courts.
When giving evidence in a court of law, your first duty is to the court, NOT your employer or any company your employer is linked to. The courts want the TRUTH, not a biased opinion.
Im glad its the last day tomorrow , its hard to watch .
Tomorrow it's the rottweiler 😮
I don't think he's an idiot, naive maybe, and he seems pretty straight to me.
I applied for a job at the post office when asked questions about my CV and the work I’ve done in the past. I said I couldn’t remember much. They said that’s great you’ve got the job😂
Obviously been coached by his legal representatives 🤔
Able to recall indirect questions but unable to recall direct questioning ! Coincidence ? 🤔
As a recently retied software engineer who has worked on complex system for over 50 years, the mention of "locking issues" sounds a huge and very loud alarm.
Early in the year there was evidence from a programmer (Gerald Barnes) that he fixed a bug due to faulty error handling. In his response to the problem report he noted that there appeared to be many more of these, and the only economic way to deal with this was a total rewrite. Most of the programmers had been on scientific systems and had no understanding of transaction based commercial systems.
can u elaborate on this?
From what he's said earlier about communications, I very much doubt he would do more than "skim read" any letter of instruction sent anyway, if that!
That's what guilty people do, pass the blame and memory all of a sudden goes blank so much for a IT specialist 😅
Despite this person being seemingly forward about things he still did not provide his expert responsibilities/duties of 'disclosure' to the court. It's evidenced here that POL did ask if there were any issues with Horizon operations. There were two such requests which he claimed in witness statements never happened.
He now acknowledges this. His witness statements were partially coached by POL lawyers. You sign a witness statement you own it !!
It's evidenced here that it was 'he' who was the first single point of failure in the whole saga.
His word was propagated up and down the responsibility chains of command in both Fujitsu and POL.
Fujitsu did not provide an expert coming clean with the court; or in fact POL.
The SPM's were never in a position to defend themselves from evidence/clarification with actual evidential prosecution data.
Even their union representative was aggressively acting as a POL enforcer.
This all basically stemmed from a single Fujitsu distinguished engineer's word 'nothing was wrong' and failed to disclose a true system picture.
Basically, a single technical system designer deciding whether his system was responsible and reporting as such to the court.
He basically admitted having performed no checking to support the SPM's. HE did, and provided, what he was asked to provide; he says !!
POL were too concerned with appearances and politics and no real regard for SPM's welfare.
Mr Jenkins is obviously not a people person, he's more comfortable with computers, I'd say. Mr Beer, on the orherhand, sees into your soul, you need to have your moral ducks in a row if he's looking at you.
hes a very strange character..... not with it... may have a computing degree but seems to have a boyish confusion about the basic facts of life...maybe he has been used but its little defence for his gross incompetence and blind loyalty to a flawed system his employers and client. Even though he has a first class legal team, I cant see a defence to perjury and conspiricy to pervert the course of justice. I can't weigh up just how much of this rabbit in the headlights performance is an act.
Like he and all involved did not know exactly what they were doing and going on "yeah right!" All of them should face long and lengthy jail terms see how they like a taste of their very own medicines?
Jo Swinson, Ed Davey & Government who one would think the ultimate route for help didn't care enough , the Lawyers didn't care enough to look thoroughly at the P O Executives & the system they had to be Judge & Jury & the system for bonuses , Lord Arbuthnott cared ,Private Eye cared & supported their fight for justice we need to know who did care perhaps that will be clearer in the Criminal cases
He was chosen as an Expert Witness by Fujitsu to give evidence in court. The duties of such a Witness are very specific. He was not however trained and did not know about these duties, such as disclosure of evidence. He gave partially truthful evidence, but not the whole truth. He could be charged after this inquiry, along with others who did not train him.
The Horizon system clearly had a devastating impact on the moral compass and it’s power to wipe the memories of so many that come into contact with it is jaw dropping. It would probably be better suited to an episode of Star Trek. Maybe they have used the computer from Superman 3 (1983). Meanwhile these people once, this enquiry is over need prosecuting.
Lying under oath is a criminal offence, amnesia is not. Hence all the forgetfulness. Ian Dee.
So many people acting thick
Gives evidence, then is faced with documented evidence, then doesnt remember at all or understood it if he did see it.
This liar *repeatedly* provided expert evidence in malicious prosecution of the Sub-Postmasters - not just some one-off mistake (oopsie) but unwavering testimony that the system was completely reliable and could not lose money in the accounts.... whilst it was doing so constantly and had a Fujitsu team assigned to manually go in remotely and make edits to accounts at night.
We need to see Post Office executives and their lying lawyers and Fujitsu (seen here) experts doing jail time for this and heavy compensation for their victims and the families of lost victims.
Was the bug that caused the loss identified?
GJ maintains that it wasn't.
It’s very simple really. POL had a ‘Duty of Care’ to ensure the compulsory computer system (Horizon) imposed on its own legally bound SPMs was ‘fit for purpose’. Because they failed this ‘Duty of Care’, POL completely ignored it, makes POL LIABLE for the adverse outcomes and for full compensation to make good losses/damages to all affected SPM’s and for responsible POL individuals to bear the full costs and penalties.
3:54 Typical of being a contractor or an employee of VERY large organisations where the management just lopes along and never giving ANY clear instructions or briefings on anything. And then when the resourceful person takes initiatives or even assumptions, YOU are at fault!
Surely the lawyers and court officials, even the judge, have a hand in making sure the expert is independent and knows what is required in law and is given the right questions -- especially if the prosecutor is a benefiting, protective and powerful company against an individual.
Although the word 'robust' does not cover 'whole truth' there seems to be a blatant and incessant ignorance of actually using horizon at point of use on a daily and weekly basis -- from the point of view of an honest, skillful and experienced sub-postmaster -- and also no evidence of spending of gains which I thought was the sort of evidence required in criminal courts. Maybe they should stop naming them sub-postmasters because they seemed to be treated like they were 'sub-human'.
This guy is very hard of thinking. I'm betting he's the useful fool in this story. Bought and paid for by The Post Office.
I haven't finished listening to Friday afternoon yet. But so far, somewhat mixed reaction to him. As I understand it he wrote a report which somehow ended up as a witness statement. It did not included the preamble about his qualifications, experience and reference material etc, this document was seen by various people some legally trained who didn't point this gap, which should have been a red flag that he not be sure what was expected. Other legally trained people used the same report multiple times. He appears to have juggled his day job which he enjoyed with his role as "expert". Neither POL or his employer seemed to think (or wanted to spend the money) that he needed to dedicate time to writing these reports.
As tony blair was told horizon had bugs/faults in 1998 and signed it off, why has mr beer not called him as witness ? Not another cover up
Sorry watch this guys non verbal signals, he is not telling the truth
Has Jarnail been arrested yet?
It wasnt me...etc
4:27
The architect!
Beer should have questioned Jenkins concentratiing for at least an hour specifically on the reasons for the massive shortages in branch accounts, especially the reasons for them and why system testing didn't uncover the problems, and why Jenkins didn't have an explanation when giving evidence against Thomas and misra etc. Abysmal system testing is largely to blame for this miscarriage of justice and Jenkins should have known that and got organised before saying he thought Horizon was working well, saying it like a mantra.
I originally thought he was being used as a scapegoat.
The distinguished , 💩💩jumped on the P.O bandwagon of making postmaster lives a living hell.
Hello Mr Winston Marshall. THANK YOU. I’m approaching my 70th birthday and for some years have been, to put it lightly, perplexed at the dismantling of Western Culture and the loss of facts, data and truth. You, and an increasing number of people like you are resisting and shining a light on the toxic madness that has enveloped the western world. Thank you- and for me, my hope for the future has been strengthened by the fact that you and others like you are YOUNG. Please keep shining the light. Derek.
It appears he only answered questions put to him. He witheld information which he could have disclosed. Busy - probably and therefore he dealt with items as quick as could. He should never have been asked to start with. He got in deeper and deeper and beyond his comprehension. Either that or he is very convincing lier. He was to give an (independent) expert opinion without knowing the severity of his actions!! Surely any Judge should have seen through that? Or do that stack em high and sell em cheap!
He should have been instructed in what being an expert witness means. He was not (PO’s fault) and didn’t insist on receiving such instruction (his fault) no one in the PO and Fujitsu comes out of the smelling of roses.
It's amazing how easily some people can pretend and blatantly lie! 😖
lets not forget there were Government ministers and civil servants involved in this. After all they were the only share holders and should have taken a closer look as soon as the number looked out of control
Cluster to mitigate.
The evidence written down cannot lie, unlike this excuse of so say professional. He knew the PO prosecutions were not sound due to Horizon not being stable, unless the written evidence is false.
I am shocked Second Sight regarded this man as a straight sort of person.
He reminds my of the cowardly lion in the wizard of oz
Mr Jenkins isn't the villain, George Thomson may actually be the most prescient. The scope of the Inquiry is off and should be focused on the organisational structuring of the PO (and the whole privatisation process). Forget the drama and see the decoy as it is.
What a dog
O'er Oops? {/}
Another who hopefully will end up in jail
bent liar.