No. Glamorising and romantisizing and sexualising ships involving extremely unhealthy relationships even including minor characters (pdfilic ships). You also mentioned to just keep it away from the kids, it's not that easy. If a kid consumes content containing two characters in an unhealthy relationship but its isn't glamorised, romantisized or sexualised the kid is less likely to be harmed by it and if they are it's not on the hands of the creator of said fiction for being weird because they portrayed said relationship the way it truly is. And the thing is proshippers don't limit their content to a site of people seaking it out, let's take pornographic content for example, we can all agree that posting that kind of content out of 18+ spaces is wrong, and their are locks you can put on to avoid this content just popping up. You can't do that with proship content, it's everywhere becuase proshippers believe it's fine and the PROSHIPPER BELEIF is quite litterally fiction doesn't affect reality. And also just, morals?? Content like gore or 18+ content is not inherently bad or harmful done correctly. Pr0ship content is, the two are nor comparable with this logic. Last on this point people don't TRY to trigger victims of certain behaviours, but this content litterally shamelessly does and if proship content didn't exist (at the very very least with restrictions and out of the public eye) that's an easy fix. Also.. s3xual1sing children is.. wrong?? Lolicon and shotacon is the open s3xual1sation of child characters is MORALLY wrong, if we're using morals it is wrong. It's feeding pdfiles content and just, pretty much my prior points. It's icky. Anyway that's it. If content such as sibling x sibling , minor x child, abuser x victim etc CAN be handled correctly, in a light that does handle the grounds of the situation it is dealing with. Proshipping is pure romantisisation. I hope this helps your viewpoint
Im to the last part of the video and when did fujoshis come into this I'm getting brain damage. Yes I will criticise Japan for their weird media what r u on abt bro?? I was being nice in my comment but this videos just gone hay wire 😭😭
Then let’s stop posting bad words because kids could stumble upon it, let’s only start posting kid friendly content. It’s not my problem if a kid see’s my videos
@@ConfettieShippss No because they aren't glorifying murders and/ot serial killers. Child dies-> that's supposed to be bad. Child shipped with an adult and enjoying it??? Thats glorifying and becoming desensitized to such images may have consequences
@@palemeadows Please get better people in your life. Especially if you were a child telling an older person that because they are going to do the same to you. Please please please change your mindset before it hurts you or someone else. I’m genuinely concerned for you. Please get help, I am not joking or trying to criticize you. I do not personally know you but you seem like you have gone through some hard times and situations that caused you to proship. Please seek therapy, you have no idea how much it helps. ❤
@@DaccaKoolade looks around. you’re extremely odd. i am not a child. my mindset? that i shouldn’t harass people over drawings? seriously? youre such a fucking annoyance. are we banning video games now, because…. what if they make kids violent 😓😓😓 ?? correct, you do NOT know me??? you freak! “seek therapy,” ableism isnt cute babe. you obviously havent talked to real people OR gone to therapy, they do not give two fucks.
Oh! That's not.. In all realness, proshipping & darkshipping fucked up my life and absolutely ruined me. I was influenced to believe inc3st, non-c0n, gr00ming were okay, until I experienced it myself, and I was groomed by proshippers. Censoring taboo content isn't okay, but this video is not it.
And I'm Japanese, and I've never seen ONE anti be racist. I'm a pansexual achillean transboy and most BLs are written by cishet women with a fetish for MLM. I personally think YOU'RE the racist one for even making these correlations. You are saying that only the Japanese have a hand in BL whilst the chinese, koreans, filipinos, etc. Also, have a hand in BL, too, and so do Americans.
@cosmic_nightzz finally someone else calls her out for this 👅👅 it's so clear she's tryna paint japanese as being proship so it's easier to paint antis (the people she's arguing against) as evil bigots. I've seen antis being racist but the way mg writes it in the vid makes it so obvious that she cares more about painting the people she disagrees with as stupid bigots instead of speaking about an issue.
anti shippers love to harass little kids who were prolly groomed into it and proshippers love to glorify pedophilia and inc3st we love to touch grass 🗣‼️
Taboo subjects being included in media is NOT proshipping. Proshipping is when people also actively romanticizes a taboo relationship, such as pedophilia and incest. YOU DID NOT describe proshipping properly and is still spreading misinformation about what proshipping actually is. Proshipping and darkshipping can also drive people to have very unhealthy habits and beliefs. Taboo subjects can still be portrayed in media without being romanticized or fetishisized. Proshipping has no sense of boundaries and just heavily romanticizes these dynamics. Just because people dont like it, it doesnt mean that they are antis, i myself, dont like it because its morally wrong. Proshipping can absolutely affect reality, its not something that stays in the lane of fiction. Sometimes, when you are a proshipper, the things you like, really tell us something about your own personal beliefs. As ive stated earlier, proshipping can make people think how incest or pedophilia is ok. Dont you think that is something that has affected reality? btw cause a war all you want in the comments idgaf not changing my mind lol.
I agree with you %100, I'd like to add that mg does think that fiction does affect reality but not to a 1:1 and she literally shows examples and states this IN THE VIDEO 25:11 😭😭 of fiction effecting reality, which is really funny because it causes some of her arguments in this vid to not make sense 😭
I agree with this personally. Especially considering that I (unfortunately) knew some proshippers during my life almost all of them where actively in to the media they consumed irl. The only people who didn't were naive 12 year olds who didn't know any better and changed their views as they got older
@@SkylarThompson-mu1qs ok, but its not a healthy coping mechanism to indulge with. instead of further getting into this rabbit hole, they should seek professional health instead. smh can people stop excusing dangerous behavior because ooh its a coping mechanism for trauma!!
hey lets not normalize this actually! my groomer was a proshipper and used the arguments as an excuse to normalize this stuff to me and i believed him for a long time, whether you like it or not proshipping will always be exposed to children and it WILL harm them like i and many other people were
but then, isn't that the fault of the people showing it to children? as opposed to the fault of proshippers themselves?? for example, its damn near inevitable that a bunch of teens are going to find out about рояинuв. does that mean it's the fault of the creators there?
@@snartboy5000its the fault of both the people and the proshippers, i shouldnt have to explain why shipping a minor and an adult isnt ok and how that could effect people
@@brimalt there are some people who are more susceptible to being influenced by fiction (minors, for example), and those people should probably not be involved in proshipping. however, IF a person is *mentally and emotionally mature and well enough* to stop themselves from mirroring these things in their real life (which is absolutely a thing that very many people can do), then i see no problem with consuming such dark content. (of course, this isn’t saying everyone should like it-i’m just saying there’s no problem with people wanting to see it.)
in my opinion, lolicon is genuinely disgusting. the character is supposed to represent a child, physically and mentally. anyone attracted to loli's are attracted to the idea of a child in those situations. the character itself may not be real, but their attraction to child-like traits is. that isn't okay.
@@mankindzbadhabit i mean, yeah, the attraction isn’t okay, but it’s only as bad as it is because of who it hurts (that is, children). so long as nobody is getting hurt, and nobody will be hurt in the future, i don’t see the problem? (and if somebody *is* getting hurt or will be hurt in the future, that’s not okay. like, at all. that isn’t proshipping anymore, it’s just wanting to f[ ] kids.)
exactly like make porn if you want idgaf. but like. Can we not include minors in it. like is it this hard to make someone 18+? i’ve heard way to many fricken story’s abt minors drawing lolicon themselves bc of how exposed they were to this stuff etheir by family for accidentally finding that side of the internet and with how impressionable they are it makes them belive the activities are ok and only realize it’s not until their older.
Tbh, i think taboo stuff is okay if its used to tell an actual story and add depth into characters and as a way for artists to project themselves into art or just to make a backstory, not to romanticise it or fetishize it in any way because thats literally disgusting Personally, i really dislike proshipping. But im not gonna go out of my way to doxx one
Preach bro 👅👅👅 personally I think there's a massive difference between creating taboo media for a story or a good message, being edgy and trying to upset people, and genuinely supporting it irl
I can't agree on this one since it's really subjective to call something fetishy or romanticization. To some, any portrayal of dark themes is fetishy, to others the darkest stuff can be relatable and not even slightly romantic. Some people will fetishize anything no matter what the creators intent was, and that's why it's really hard to draw the line. It just comes down to people's personal experiences, and the ability to create your own space on the internet. I know it's just your opinion but I wanna join the discussion with a slightly different point of view
Unsubscribing 💋Pro shippers aren't good They need help. Edit: thanks for the likes, btw, I made this comment 7 days ago y'all started a war if you don't like it womp womp just block me💀
Depicting dark situations properly is not the same as proshipping. Proshipping is the normalization and glorification of ab^isve topics. Ive supported you for a long time but i can not get behind this. The majority of proshippers i have seen are not healthy, and though EXPLORING dark topics in fiction can be healthy, GLORIFYING them is unsafe and I’ve seen a lot of proshippers use this mentality to gr00m kids. The entire concept of proshipping makes kids venerable to predators
@@sadpianist5846 watched through half of it. I’m not listening to a mf using the loli debate of ‘oh well she looks like a child but is actually 10000 years old!!’
The proshippers in the comments can only repeat the same fucking thing istg "erm proshipping doesn't do that actually" yes it does. "Did you watch the video" yes I did, it wasn't good 😭
I literally cannot believe you brought up salad fingers. salad fingers is the most unserious example you could have EVER brought up, it is UNBELIEABLE 😭 sf is an extremley unserious series and even david firth knows that, but even then ive seen allegories to SA be handled with more decorum by sf than i have with proshippers...
Things like rape, pedophilia and abuse are COMMONLY addressed in media. “Pro-shipping” simply glorifies it. Being an “anti-shipper” doesn’t mean one wants to censor these topics from being brought to light as they should be (respectfully, and from the experience of a victim). Romanticizing these topics is harmful. Many children yes, do have unrestricted access to the internet. That doesn’t mean they’re seeking it out if they find content that romanticizes these topics. The “w-well gore what about gore!! Watching gore doesn’t make you wanna kill people!” argument is old. Films receive heavy backlash if it romanticizes the topics. Slasher films are HORROR FILMS they are intended to SCARE or FRIGHTEN the viewer. It does not ROMANTICIZE the act of taking another’s life. Lolicon is illegal in every country. Watching and consuming topics that romanticize things like sexual assault, abuse, incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and even ZOOPHILIA is however harmful. I’m a victim of rape, and my rapist happened to obtain “fictional” child pornography, which evolved into pornography of sexually exploited REAL LIFE children. Proshipping is essentially a rabbit hole to acting on these desires that harm those around those who go down the rabbit hole. It ties up into porn addiction. It can and does become a problem very quickly. I don’t think people with these desires should off themselves or anything, but simply receive professional help instead of feeding into it. Sex offenders are being made from this rabbit hole. Overall, PLEASE seek professional help and tell your therapist about these thoughts. Take a break from the internet for a while for your own damn sake.
@@AllieWae Where did you get "lolicon is illegal in every country"🤨 it absolutely ISN'T. Lol There is NO evidence that comshipping is a "rabbit hole" or is "harmful". You are merely using an anecdotal "Slippery Slope" case, saying "well my abuser was into it so that means everyone who is into it is an abuser or will turn into a sex offender!" No, that is dumb lol
@@SukiNoKoe My apologies I didn’t look up country, I looked up “is there any place that lolicon is legal in” and the overview said no. I should’ve looked more in depth into that segment. Regardless though, this does not disregard that lolicon feeds into the fetish of kids and is often eventually taken out on real like children.
@@AllieWae Um lolicon is illegal in like 8 countries and USA isn't one of them. No, a study was conducted and there were no such results. Please don't make things up.
I feel like many discussions around proshipping are framed in a very dishonest way. EVERYONE agrees that harassment over ships is not ok. Many adult proshippers claim they just want to ship their ships and be left alone, but will actively intrude in the spaces of minors by making proship or NSFW art of children's characters. This is something I experienced growing up in the brony fandom. I can never in good conscious say it's ok for a minor to be proship. Too many predators have used the concept of proship as a way to introduce minors to taboo, inappropriate subjects and tell them they're acceptable and normal. In the video MG says an argument is "anti porn and anti kink" and also says that demonizing romanticization is "demonizing fetishes". It's not appropriate for a minor to defend these kinds of things. This isn't MG's fault, this is on adult proshippers for trying to make their ideology mainstream. It's dishonest to claim that the only reason people would dislike lolicon is because it's illegal. People don't like it because it depicts children in sexual situations, and children cannot consent. Many of the arguments in this video are just strawmen and I don't think many people actually have these beliefs. Consuming loli does not cause pedophiles to ignore children. We have seen time and time again that pedophiles will go after kids regardless and will reoffend even after serving jail time. Also, the reason why rape is generally considered worse than murder is because you're far more likely to meet a rape victim than a murder victim. Victims of rape are still affected by portrayals of rape.
Also many people in the comments are saying that most proshippers are minors which just proves my point. Why are all these kids having debates about anti kink and porn and defending incest fetishes. This is not ok
@aprilrain5553 REAALLL BRO 🙏🙏 it's actually so telling that she couldn't even argue why proshipping is okay normally so she had to make this train wreck of a video 💀💀 which is mostly switching up what most proships and antiships believe in order to fit her current argument, and taking antiship arguments in the most bad faith way humanly possible. Like the fujoshi part of the vid?? Was there even an argument for that part or did she just try to label antiships as being homophobic and racist?? 😭😭
couldnt have said it better myself. the very words "proship" and "antiship" are the fuel for the community that only exists because of a very black and white debate
I was groomed because I thought these types of things were okay when I was younger. I dont agree on harrassing minors, just educate them on what is and aint okay to ship.
hey so I completely agree that taboo topics in fiction is fine and good to explore but the way you're defending portraying horrible things in a positive light is completely and utterly harmful
Going to watch this as someone whom hates both sides and thinks shipping discourse is extremely chronically online with an open mind and reply with my thoughts when I’m done
Okay I’m sorry but you keep mismatching arguments to fit yours and it’s really, really annoying. You state antis are against things like lolicon, shotacon, etc etc. Sexual crimes in a pornographic and or romantic setting. Sure, okay. You then state antis are against portrayals of rape in general…? What? Are you stating your opposition is arguing against how dark topics are tackled in fiction or if they’re allowed to be in fiction at all? Those are two different statements.
Also you did the “mishmushing two arguments into one” thing again. You’re using “child molester” and “pedophile” synonymously. Not the same thing and frankly it’s really not that crazy to say the majority of those into things like loli and shota are pedophiles, even if they never offend, for reasons I will expand on if someone respectfully prompts me to. And in slight correlation to what I’ve mentioned… wdym “every kink is fine if it doesn’t hurt anyone”…that is incredibly, incredibly vague and kind of gross. Do you know how many attractions exist?
Yea I keep saying it but she keeps generalizing both sides and it's annoying as sh1t. The anti arguments she's "refuting" are misrepresented, like the "romanization is bad claim" not bringing up how that term is very subjective and vary by person by person, and only uses her definition 💀💀 she also said that proshipping isn't like propaganda because propaganda is specially used to change you perspective, ignoring a portion of proshippers that literally use that art to gr00m people 💀💀
@@Corgi-is_a_dumb_loserI’m trying to be in good faith but it’s so annoying like how am I supposed to take someone who’s blending arguments together seriously
@cyanidepancake nahh atp I don't think anythin in this vid is in good faith 😭😭 She tried generalize antis as being more racist of a community because of a TWITTER THREAD but the proship community apparently doesn't have a grooming or ableism problem "not all of them are like that"😭😭 like girrlll at least try to hide ur bias. It ain't even spreading awareness to a problem or whatever she's sayin as an excuse because it's so obvious she's generalizing both communities and their opinions to make her side look better AND IT'S SO OBVIOUS?? Honestly I'm stubborn in my opinions but I can listen to other people's pov, but OMG this video is literally just refuted strawman arguments with somehow even worse logic n people n the comments r eating it up 😭
I don't know how many different shades of proshipping there are, but I know it used to stand for anyone that liked shipping characters. The fun ships online and in media, self inserts and crossing universes, it was safe and fun. The reason the word is treated differently now, is BECAUSE people who enjoy writing/drawing or roleplaying abuse, illegal acts, immoral acts, etc. are using the proshipping label to build community. Half of that community, is also underage. It's all so bad to the point where I've been trying to coin "probshipping" to call these particular people out. There's no benefit to indulging in KNOWINGLY illustrating your trauma. Therapists and psychology exist for a reason. If all of this doesn't make sense, let me spell it out clearly: *Creating echo chambers of positive reinforcement for negative content, is BAD.* You cannot give me any possible concrete reason for pro(b)shipping being good. Hell, I WAS ONE, UNKNOWINGLY at 12. That is HORRENDOUS. Write whatever sick and twisted stories you want, I can't stop you and I don't care. But children at younger and younger ages are getting engaged in sexual content (don't get me started on Roblox) and I find it irresponsible to share stories like these looking for hearts, likes, and pity brownie points. The reason anti's lose their minds over sexual content in particular is because it's having a far greater effect on minors than, say murder. They are both terrible crimes, if someone is only creating content surrounding an illegal act of any kind, they need professional help. But there are far more grooming cases lately than a repeat of that Slenderman event (literally wake up every morning and look at RUclips, a new groomer is exposed every day) One more way of saying the same thing I'm trying to say this whole time: I do not need you to thoroughly render a 40 year old man touching a child to tell me pedophilia is wrong. Art does not need to be that graphically explicit to get a point across. I do not need you to write a "masterpiece" of a painstakingly executed crime to show me kidnapping and murder is wrong. We can't just "mind our own business" when it's being publicized, normalized, and mainstreamed in the art community. I don't know if you noticed, but "antis" are mostly normal people. They are.. the majority of the art community. I'll explicitly state that they are against the people openly displaying their underage minor X abusive adult, and I know that's not every single proshipper. Proshippers who are not problematic should abandon the label, or we all have to work as a community to kick out the bad apples. Not every "anti" is good, and neither is every proshipper I understand that. But there is a giant red glaring issue here that I think is being talked over and ignored, which is that there are OPENLY CRIMINALS engaging in community and society, being emotionally rewarded for their issues.
I will never go out of my way to harass pro shippers but fiction CAN influence reality. That’s a non-debatable fact. plus, adults enjoying and being okay with disgusting acts like p3d0f3l1a is gross.
@@tocasmiley360 im watching the video right now and she literally doesn't? she brings up the fact that *some people* have the belief that fiction doesn't effect reality, but never says that she agrees.
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I'm aware OP/mushroom girl and most people won't read this so feel free to ignore/scroll. I am going to try to actually type a comment explaining why proshipping is wrong without just insulting you like the other comments, despite how deserved I think those insults are. Proshipping isn't simply writing or drawing unethical stuff, because if that was the case it'll be different. Writing or drawing unethical stuff but showing it as unethical and truthfully as bad as it is, is perfectly fine. However, glorifying or seeing it as okay or something to get off to is not okay and extremely gross. Despite the fact these writings or drawings are fiction, what they are showing is very much real. You can argue all you want that it's "fictional" and proshippers wouldn't actually harm kids but I disagree. Adult proshippers even use proshipping as a way to gr00m children. Also, if you or anyone else is a proshipper and getting off to this type of art, I just want to ask, why? Why is it attractive? Even if it's fictional, as I said before, these concepts are very much real. Why would the concept of anything unethical ever make you feel anything other than disgust? Why is someone's trauma your f3tish? Let's say the art isn't to get off to, despite that's what I usually see it used as even if said person claims it's to cope (I don't mean to generalize, going off my own experiences here) and let's say it's used to cope. How is it helping you cope? Is it a healthy coping mechanism? Do you not realize that not all coping mechanisms need to be made public, especially if they can be triggering or are unethical? I would understand drawing art of you and your abus3r or anything else to cope, but why cope by drawing a character going through similar stuff you went through? If it's because you want to project onto a character and have someone to relate to, I advise you do that but without the glorifying or f3tishizing that proshippers more often than not do. If you want to project onto a character, show the said unethical thing as wrong instead of as positive like proshippers do. Lastly, if a proshipper is a young kid I do not wish harm on them or anything and hope they figure out that proshipping is unethical and unhealthy :(
i don't know how to not be mad about this stuff and come off as hostile so i genuinely appreciate you being level headed about it and also expressing my exact beliefs
@@Phos67 that's disgusting :( I don't know how you can claim to be so strongly against something that you even dislike in fiction then wish it upon a real life person. I'm an "anti" too but I wouldn't do that because the whole reason I'm an "anti" is because I'm against that stuff. (I put anti in quotations because I don't see the use for clarifying I don't support unethical stuff being glorified, because that's the bare minimum imo and antishipper sounds like you're against shipping as a whole. I guess I'd call myself an anti-proshipper though.)
@@alfhandle being mad about this stuff is completely valid!! I just feel like people tend to just not listen when you're more hostile, even if you're right. They tend to think of it as "attacking" rather than justified anger or frustration.
@@NeilNordegrafxD That's good to know. I consider myself neutral, I just think think the endless harassment this kid got over this video will not do any good. I kinda hope delete the video, even if they don't change their mind, for the sake of their mental health, since they seem to read all the comments and most of them are just childish insults and that's not good for a kid to see. Antishippers need more people like you.
This video is so???? This comment is a mess and my own opinion that may not always be right but let’s start from the top. Why is proshipping seen as morally wrong especially when consumed as a sexual part of media? The fact someone finds something sexually appealing isn’t a bad thing but when those things are children, people forcing themselves on someone who has not consented and victims of abuse is honestly so immoral. It’s always been wrong. Most people who GET into proshipping, specifically adults, are already into those things while children have just begun to learn those things and consume it as normal media (this is why you condoning adults to proship doesn’t work due to the fact these adults find some kid of sick pleasure from it). Why would you intentionally create a safe space for pedo’s to share their desires and reaffirm this is okay behavior? You may not realize it but when proshippers find a place to be together and share their norms it becomes something that they all learn they can condone. Now sexual things are a part of pleasure, in other words a good thing to that person, if these things were written as something informational or simply venting then that would be okay but it’s literally for their own pleasure and twisted sense of view. Let’s look into why sexualizing children is wrong next, children are LITERALLY unable to consent in any way. The fact anyone could find a fictional child like a shota or loli sexually appealing is sick to think about because they’re based on REAL children. It’s the same reason people find it awful to sexualize nuns in media but this is a whole can of worms on its own. “What about the people that enjoy horror movies or slashers anyway for entertainment, they’re problematic too?” An argument that proshippers bring up yet tend not to realize isn't the same thing as proshipping, other problematic situations in shows are usually NOT for sexual gratification and if they are consumed as such, it's seen as weird for a good reason. These thoughts are usually discussed in therapy and the person does their best to overcome it as they realize it’s a harmful line of thinking. Furthermore I don’t know everything myself and I’m not afraid to admit that, people get an adrenaline rush when watching these movies but most people don’t actually want to kill anyone as compared to those who want to touch children. But say this, they never act on any behavior they consume and simply consume the media. It still doesn’t matter if this ruins one’s mental health believe it or not, propaganda exists (do not bring any propaganda about gay people into this, the queer community advocates for allowing them to be free and does NOT harm others in any way, they condone others to find themselves and not copy them) for a reason and proshipping mirrors that in a way, fiction DOES and has always affected reality regardless of age. Finally what about proshippers who aren’t doing this for any sexual reason? I still find this problematic as they post it online allowing other proshippers to find them and sexual predators. If it doesn’t involve minors these people are usually in some way mentally ill and are more susceptible to fiction than regular people who have a clear separation of fiction and reality. I’m going to bring up those being triggered because you can’t brush off an entire community of people not wishing to be sexualized, that is, people who have been in situations proshippers enjoy do not wish to be something to be enjoyed either as they’ve already felt violated once. Bottom line? People who proship to vent or to cope should NOT be posting this online anywhere as they’ll only spread it around and make their own. If you REALLY want to please keep it to yourself and look for mental health with a close friend who you’re able to share your experience with and who can support you.And people who proship with no real reason? Just really weird people who are probably in need of some kind of mental help. (This is genuine not an insult) Whichever you are please just get help
There is no evidence to suggest proshippers are mentally unhealthy OR predators; just shut up already. " The fact anyone could find a fictional child like a shota or loli sexually appealing is sick to think about because they’re based on REAL children." They never are based on real children. "If you REALLY want to please keep it to yourself " No. :D "Whichever you are please just get help" For what? You'll only be laughed at and sent home!
I left a comment earlier but i was running a high fever which usually impacts my ability to view things critically, soo im leaving another when im not overheating. 1, (7:55) I can agree with the first bit, kids being on the internet and finding media they probably shouldnt be consuming usually isnt the fault of the creator, however i do disagree with the last part. If a proshipper is posting art, they are partially responsible for making sure kids arent consuming stuff like that, i get it content warnings dont always get kids to leave but if they see someone interacting with their content who is a kid then i do believe they can take two seconds to block them. Its not much of a hassle on them, as im not saying they should go through all the people consuming their work, but that if they are aware someones a minor they should take proper action to get them away from said content. 2, (9:40) Again i can agree with this at first, really anything can trigger people, and I do agree that if there is a warning then its now the person being triggered’s fault. This is assuming they put warnings on said media in general, any time ive ever seen a proship theres never any sort of warning or attempt to be like hey this might be triggering, plus that would require the proshipper in question to acknowledge that the ship is containing something that is wrong in the eyes of most people, and again everytime i see any sort of proshipper content they dont see it that way, the see it as a cute pairing of characters they like. 3, (11:00) I agree here aswell, unless the consumer is already a p3d0 or something (or in the case of the slenderman stabbing one of the girls was schizophrenic if i remember correctly, dont quote me on that though its been a hot second sense i last looked into that case). 4, (16:55) Im gonna be honest i dont think anyone is moronic enough to say this (the quote on screen) and if they did, i disagree aswell, however while both are allowed to exist in fiction neither should be portrayed as something other than a disgusting crime, shipping a r4p3 victim with their abuser is absolutely disgusting, id say the same as shipping a murderer with their victim. Also while i do think r4p3 is so much worse than murder (im not going to explain why as thats not the subject of discussion as of now), they are both terrible and should be treated accordingly. (17:50) Plus everyone is arguing opinions here, some people dont think r4p3 is wrong at all but that doesnt change the fact that to the majority of people can agree its gross. Though i do agree with the murder is not an accident bit, manslaughter is, but murder isnt. (though murder doesnt have to be premeditated thats why theres second and first degree murder.
My phone started having a stroke typing that so heres the rest. 5, (19:15) rq before i start this i know who your referring to with the onesided screaming match and that seriously sucks, im sorry that happened to you. However I think this argument is gross actually, im pretty sure you agree with me on this that laws dont always align with ones morals. Even if loli is or isnt illegal that doesnt change the fact its literally CP with more steps, the legality in this case shouldnt matter because if we are arguing morals here, as addressed before, morals ≠ laws. Also (24:45) whos to say this wont make predators act on actual children, I know it was talked about earlier that stuff like this doesnt make someone a p3d0, but if someone already is one, why would they stop at looking at drawings containing underage people (which i know the whole loli argument is aw its not CP if they are 3000 years old, they just look young but thats bull), hell you even brought up an example within your own video, someone who consumed lolicon and still went on to communicate with minors in an inappropriate fashion. 6, (25:10) Not much to say on this one, i can agree with most of what you say here. Though i will say that fiction does impact reality, especially if the consumers are young. An artist named Rouge made multiple sanscest (i dont really care about selfcest as much its weird to me but eh, bringing this up to not be like ewww selfcest bad, the art is bad for other reasons) comics with minors flirting with or saying they were gonna get married to adults (and the adult not telling them thats wrong), and r4p3 victim forgiving their abuser after they try to off themself. (Streamline workshop made a video about them that goes muchh deeper into it than I am so id recommend watching that). Im bringing them up because if you see how their fanbase reacts and talks about this kind of stuff they are clearly very young and dont see things like this as an issue. Like when a 13(?) year old character flirts with and tries to get with an adult (to which she doesnt tell him off), they are upset because its getting in the way of another ship. im not done yet but im hungry so ima go have some breakfast n continue
ok 7, (28:45) I think romanticism is fine, making something look better than it is can be a good use for story telling, like showing someone in all pastels and pinks but also being obviously in pain or injured, it can be used as a good way to show the characters internal feelings while also showing how that affects them. Aside from that, I think romanticization here is being used in two different ways, and I think the way that its generally used by antis is similar to promoting something. While these two things arent the same, they are a similar concept so i cant blame people for using them interchangeably. (Also you did cover that somewhat so i wont go on too much about it). On the fetish thing, I do agree its none of anyones business as to what someone is into as long as it stays within fiction, it might be weird but im not here to kink shame. Im not gonna go over the antis and racism bit because i do agree that it is there. To end this off I do believe people should have the right to express what they want to, just that its done in an appropriate way that doesnt promote said thing to others. I dont think people should be harassed for what they create at all, its childish to do so, if i see it I block and move on. This is entirely my opinion however so feel free to disagree with me on things.
I really hated the title when I saw this in my recommendations. As someone who was sexually assaulted at a young age by another child and groømed by someone else, I don’t blame that child much since they were also extremely young. I blame others who spread this mindset of yours and others that encourage it. Do you understand the fragile mentality of kids?? No kid will simply search for N$FW content or pro shipping content, they are almost guaranteed to stumble on it by themselves by accident. Often because the pro shippers use characters from fandoms that contain a lot of children. Children will not understand the difference between right and wrong especially if the content is being promoted by the content creators. Children who watch this form of media are often unknowingly normalizing it, it is the same with N$FW, because many content creators make extremely suggestive content, extremely young viewers have already normalized sexualizing just about everything. It is really sad. Because this is so normalized for them, it puts them in danger. Those kids would not understand if they were being groømed because it is simply normal for them. I understand a lot of people have their own ways of coping, but using pro shipping as a form of healing is simply not okay. Because this method is harmful to the children who watched this content.
im not gonna lie i was actually kinda nervous coming into this but i agree on most of what you said here i think portraying darker themes in media is incredibly important, just that its treated delicately as to not just outwrite tell the consumer that said thing is awesome and they should go do it in real life (which i know is incredibly rare like you brought up in the Slenderman stabbing case). also when it comes to romanticizing topics such as these i do think that while it is similar to promoting, they are not the same thing. I personally have drawn artwork that would most likely be considered the romanticization of a somewhat toxic relationship, but im in no way trying to promote the situation. this might notta made any sense im getting sick rn and my brain only works like half way nonetheless good vid
Hey so, um I don’t mean to be mean and I’m sorry that people are but I do have a grip with one of your arguments (well many but those are mostly based on my own personal experience and opinion). 17:53 you said that it doesn’t count as murder if it’s accidental or justified but that’s just not true. I’m sure you’re talking in a definition sense, but in a legal sense…that’s like not true. Murder can be accidental and it would be called 3rd degree murder but it depends if the court thinks it should count. The justifiable one is a little bit more tricky because what’s justified depends on person to person. I personally think that if a victim kills their abuser it’s justified but some people don’t think that. Especially in legal situations, because if a victim say, kills their abuser one random day on purpose, it would count as murder but if they kill them while being attacked, it would be considered self defense. Because we’re talking about a fictional sense as well, stories are meant to have themes and a lot of time justice and revenge are topics talked about in media a lot. It’s one of my personal favorite things to explore in stories, but a lot of times what happens is the question “Do you think what happened was justified/was justice served?” Is asked. People have different meanings of justice and what it means to them, might make or break a story/piece or media. Again, I hope I wasn’t rude. Much love and I’m sorry you’re getting so many corny, mean, and hateful comments. Even if I don’t agree with you, I don’t think what a lot of people are saying to you is okay
17:53 murder can ABSOLUTELY be justifiable. one of the most famous examples being parents who seek out revenge for individuals who molested their children, a couple notable people being gary plauche and marianne bachmeier. have you looked at the average time spent in prison for sex offenders? rarely do they ever get life in prison, and when they ARE released, it is extremely common for them to reoffend. whether or not you agree with death as a punishment, you need to acknowledge that these cases are not at ALL comparable to rape, a crime which can never be justified.
i don’t personally agree with proship/comship/darkship (you still shouldn’t harrass others though) because people could be manipulated into having a mindset which thinks that it’s ok irl especially kids but i don’t harrass people which gives them attention (also yea not hating just sharing my opinion)
19:15 hello I am not a pro shipper and I am not an anti cause such anyways you actively say that murder has to be pre-planned a lot of murder cases have been not pre-planned that's why first-degree homicide second degree and manslaughter these are all cauterized under the umbrella of murder but then you say it's subjective if murder and rape is worse there is a justifiable reason to kill somebody you've been abused for years so you plan to kill them it's probably not the best way to get out of that toxic situation but it still happens but when you pre-plan or choose to rape somebody there is never a justifiable reason to do that (please do not harass me for responding like this read this and then rebuttal)
Honestly this video is really well worded, as someone who doesn't really call themselves a pro or antishipper I do still agree with your points, keep it up MG ^_^ (mainly commenting to show my support and engagement, I dunno how to actually word my thoughts)
Uhh ex-proshipper here (I got therapy and a reality check), and while you do make a few good points in your video, proshipping isn’t ‘good’. Sure it’s cathartic but I got a lot of death threats and was threatened to get doxxed.
@@CatInTheBox20133I’m sorry you got groomed, but it’s not the proship content that got you groomed, it was the fact that an adult decided to pray on you.
I’m sorry you got death threats also, but that doesn’t mean that proshipping is necessarily bad, that just means that some people in the community were treating you like shit. Most proshippers believe that harassing people over their beliefs on fiction is shitty and not okay.
I think people more think that fictional incest abuse paedophilia ect will make the person think real cases of grooming or abuse aren't that bad you even mentioned in a video that creepypasters made you think real life murders weren't that bad.
People arnt that stupid though. I ship whatever I want, yet those cases in real life make me barf. It’s disgusting. But if it’s fictional media it’s not hurting anyone so I don’t really care personally
@alien9cheeseits46 I was more properly addressing the actual belief since the idea that proships will make people be abusive felt a little dishonest and exaggerating the argument against proships in my opion
@@trixxart777 The whole video I think is presenting a very dishonest view of proshippers and antis. MG is setting up strawmans with dumb beliefs like "proshipping makes people think pedophilia is ok" and "people only think loli is bad because it's illegal" to knock them down easily
Bruh there are so many people in this comment section calling everyone else in the comment section pedophiles and incest lovers it's insane. It's very obvious they saw the title and didn't bother watching the video. Personally, for a little bit I myself kinda panicked a little when I first saw the title, but I bothered to watch it, and I can say you have very good points/takes on proshippers and antis.
some people commenting really havent watched the video and it shows,, i basically agree with all of your points, yeah! antis have caused me genuine paranoia and nightmares and i really think we should be able to treat topic like these with nuance instead of condemning it because you don't personally like it. thanks for making this video honestly, it's nice to see a content creator i look up to that has the common sense to think about topics instead of judging so quickly. awesome video :]
While I do agree in freedom of expression I also belive if someone complains about proshippers they are totally in their right to do that no matter if their reasons are are flawed freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequences. And a lot of people don't see that freedom of expression goes both ways and that just because someone critiques proshippers doesn't mean they are harassing you obviously if they are genuine harassing you or trying to dox you that isn't okay but just having a different opion is fine.
Fetishising inmoral things real life or not is gross. I honestly don't get how people don't see a problem with that?? Also btw most proshipers i see are minors so uh..
People don’t see a problem with portraying taboo themes in a sexual manner because at the end of the day, it’s fiction. And comparing real life harm caused by things like pedophilia and abuse with fictional characters who do not exist is honestly almost disrespectful?
@@xxmushroom.girlxxhow could you possibly agree with child x adult student x teacher abused x abuser and other nasty things like that?? Supporting things like that, even in fiction, is wrong. If you can't see that then PLEASE get professional help.
Im an anti, these subjects in proships/fics do not make me uncomfortable or triggered. I can consume media like that and not be bothered, however... You can write and create media with r@pe, 1ncesr, pdfilia, abuse and anything else mentioned. However that's a big difference when you write it to tell a story and discuss those topics and when you write it because you get off from it. If you found fictional pdfillia attractive. You are a pdf file. It's as simple as that. No real children are being harmed, yes. But you are indulging in the paraphillia regardless. This applies to all 'taboo' topics you mentioned. Also it's been proving that indulging in a paraphillia, leads you to becoming more extreme in the paraphillia you are into and can also lead to you developing more. PDF files who consume images of CSA will eventually go on to abuse children in real life, and won't just consume pictures of it. Or someone who's a zoo may lead onto them being a necro. It's happened many times and is documented and proven by psychologists. I have no doubt someone who consumes a lot of proship content becuase they find it hot, could eventually go on to do more extreme things other than read taboo fanfiction. The reason there is no individual studies into proshippers is becuase it's niche and fairly knew to the Internet. However there's countless studies onto paraphillias and what happens to people who don't sort their shit out and get help for them. I suggest you do the same. I've seen plenty of proships be outed for grooming young people online. Probably becuase fiction wasn't enough for them. And also using the excuse of a proshipper being a victim and using proship content to vent is a poor excuse. 'Lolita' is a book written by a victim of CSA. Its got many upsetting topics in it however its not written for gratification. Its to tell a story, this is how taboo fiction should be used for venting. Writing it for gratification is going to lead to worsening your paraphillia, the same way people who may have been CSA victims can and have gone onto become abusers themselves. Its a cycle, being proship from abuse will lead to the same cycle. Crimes committed based on fictional media is becuase of already existing mental health problems. The same way proshippers find paraphillias attractive and paraphillias are litteraly mental illnesses. They are not the same. You also make so many dumb points to justify your arguments, I can't be asked to debunk them. This video is mind numbing. The many instances of abuse being a cycle and people who may only be into one thing being into more, or people needing more than just images of certain acts going on to actually commit those acts, should be enough for you to realise its wrong. If you can ignore that, then you're beyond help ig.
Pedophiles are defined as "someone attracted to human children five years younger than their own age. So no, liking a twisted ship with made up characters does not make you a pedophile.
@SukiNoKoe yeah well even in court, and the law will say that anyone under the age of (usually) states anyone attracted to people younger than 16 is a pedophile. If not, then they are predatory. Don't try and be pedantic over terms like that. If you saw a real case of someone who's 30 doing stuff with a 14 year old, you'd call them a pdf file. Be real. And yes, you are one if you like 'twisted ships' if you are getting off from reading about fictional c/p. You are one. There is no other reason for it. You are attracted to the concept and thought of a minor being abused in that way (just like a p3d0)
@SukiNoKoe don't be pedantic. If an irl 30 year old tried to get it on with a 14 year old. You and everyone else on earth who isn't a p3d0 would say that the 30 year old is a p3d0. When you say someone 'isn't actually a p3d0' because the child isn't under 5, then it makes it sound like you're REALLY trying hard to justify being predatory to minors. I'm just saying. And yes. You are getting off to fictional minors in predatory situations. You know... like how p3d0s do? Does cp suddenly become okay if it's AI generated, fake kids. No, it doesn't. Anyone creating or viewing it would be a predator. Just because it's words on a page or done in an anime artstyle doesn't change the fact that you are getting 0ff to kids. Therefore, a p3d0.
@SukiNoKoe oh don't be padantic. If an irl 30 year old was dating a 14 year old you'd call them a PDF (unless you're one yourself) Why should it be any different when someone is attracted to N5FW depictions of fictional minors. It's still an attraction to minors regardless of whether they're real or not.
@@JC_Hyperi0n28 LOL it's spelled "pedantic".🙄 "You'd care about this thing if it was real!" NO SH!T, SHERLOCK. But it's not. So I dgaf. Lol There's no reason you should either; it's MADE-UP. Fictional stories and real life are two different things! That's why I love horror anime but seeing real blood makes me pass out!! TWO. DIFFERENT. THINGS.🤦♀️This is so damn stupid lmao
ALL of y'all are unhealthily obsessed with FICTIONAL worlds and characters and internet drama and need to familiarize yourself with the actual world billions of people from all sorts of backgrounds live in
If anything its just doubling down repeatedly. So many people are debunking her arguments and if they are good enough she deletes them. I think I've had two of my comments deleted under the pinned comment. And others have taken notice too.
my problem with the whole proshipper/anti shit is that its a false dichotomy as if you can only be one or the other when the people who actively identify as either are usually brainlets imo. on one hand self identified "anti's" are usually puritans who faint at seeing a ship that's not 100% coffee shop au healthy, but self identified proshippers that i've seen at least often don't actually live by their own beliefs of "no harrassment" and don't actually engage with dark subjects in media in a particularly "deep" or analytical fashion (aka they just like Weird with a capital W porn that would be illegal if it wasn't drawn). ive literally seen proshippers namesearch (as in, looking up posts people make about proshipping in general) on twitter to harrass someone expressing they don't like them as a community On their Own Account without @-ing or replying to anyone. or just harrass someone for making a video on proshipping that actually symapthises with them but expresses disagreement with certain aspects of the community (while they were also being harrassed by antis bcs antis assumed they were proship. LMAO) like yes i agree with the "thesis" of "don't harass people for shipping fucked up stuff", but the thing is, anyone who i see actively identify as a proshipper like, isn't just that. they actively do ship pedophilic stuff etc. and not even in a "wow i am really interested in this dark subject matter and going into the psychology of victims" like again its usually just porn. and like you have to recognise that making public posts and making your identity all about about how hot pedophilic/abusive/incestous (fictional) relationships are is something that most Normal People In Real Life would find AT BEST weird, at worst Suspect. people are allowed to think you are Weird for this. unless you think that pedophilic/abusive relationships should be destigmatized. you have to be aware that fangirl squeeing about such topics will get you weird looks. and its people's freedom of speech to express that on their own accounts to their own audience. i also just have a distaste for the community in general because it, from what ive seen, suffers from something i like to call Pornbrain. as in you cant engage with media without finding something to get your rocks off to it and making your entire engagement with it surrounding that. ive seen proshippers squee about how a father-daughter relationship in media is "baiting them" and how that media is totally intending for that relationship to be "proship bait" or whatever. reduction of all media into normal shipping is already lame enough but now you have people who form their whole identity surrounding how "fucked up" something they ship can get without actually engaging with it in an especially interesting manner. it makes it worse bcs a lot of ppl who "proship" i feel like overestimate how deep their engagement with the topics actually are lol. i also disagree with the notion there is no danger with forming communities entirely focused on shipping pedophilia/incest/abuse (and, often romanticising, as again, most people ive seen embrace the label don't actually engage with the subjects especially deeply), because first of all humans are very influenced by our surroundings because we are Social animals. and constant reinforcement of the attractiveness of things like pedophilia/incest/abuse - even if fictional - can likely have an influence - at the very least in desensitizing/destigmatizing it to you. like if you're a person who surrounds yourself with friends who constantly "joke" about being racist, they never say they're racist for real but their whole identity is formed around making racist jokes and saying racial slurs, is anyone going to pretend as if that won't at least have some influence on you? like the people who say that "im actually coping with my trauma by proshipping and my therapist says its good" i feel are leaving out a lot to their alledged therapist, because while i think that coping through engaging with dark subject matter in art/writing CAN work in some instances, i doubt that these therapists are being told that these people are ALSO posting these things in public communities that talk about the things that happened to them as if they're "hot" and explicit fantasies about offending/wanting to offend. all in all. do i think shipping pedophilia/incest/abuse/whatever should be illegal? no. do i think people should actively harrass people who do it? no. do i think people are entitled to think you are weird for doing it and should be able to self regulate their own communities by expressing that they think you're weird? Yes. generally i think its lame to form your whole identity around how fucked up the things you ship are OR how much you hate people who ship things you get squicked by. and no again i know the whole "definition" of proship is "ship and let ship" but Again im going off of the people i see actively identify as proshippers. and 90% of the time it includes actually shipping the weird shit urself. its like people who call themselves "centrists". like yes definitionally being a political centrist is like your political beliefs ending up not leaning especially right or left. but most people online who call themselves that tend to actually be right leaning, they just don't like admitting to it/find it politically expedient. and like sure there are Real Actual Centrists who are like the definition claims. but ill still be wary of anyone online who calls themselves that because 90% of the time its actually just a right winger. just as how i'll automatically raise an eyebrow at anyone who makes "proshipping" a big part of their online identity.
This is the most based comment on the whole comment section fr, i agree so hard, and its worst that proshippers make their ships around communities for children content, and then they act flabbergasted by it, again, im not an antishipper but its just so weird and icky how proshippers romantize this stuff
I think my comment got deleted or hidden 😭 I'm not one to judge titles so I'll watch the video. Even though I'll never agree with these kinds of people. I genuinely believe these people cause harm a lil bit with normalizing things like ships with really bad age gaps and other things. While I'm someone who believes you can draw whatever you want (as long as you aren't drawing something problematic or glorifying stuff) art shouldn't be used to push immortal things like my example above. I do have a question regarding the intro since it has me confused. In your sav video you said you weren't a proshipper nor a anti and i was curious since this video is out is your opinion still the same??/gen
I'm personally not a anti nor a problematic person, i don't really have a opinion about your video, however i gotta point out that you're contradictive and your video is hard to understand.
(Tw) Sorry this isn't something i would agree with respectfully , you can't guarantee that ALL proshippers are gonna react the same way, fiction could affect reality if they were soo desperate, a lot of people off themselves before because of fiction including games and shows, and on the other side, victims are gonna get sooo triggered, imagine you're a victim of SA by your parent and you see someone shipping a kid with their own biological father,I'm aware that proshipping isn't always about liking kids and that proshipper≠pedos, but it's still a way to satisfy pedos intentions, romanticizing toxic relationships between two adults is still iffy but at least not that problematic, but everything else is a no
Did you watch the video?? Because it covers all the bases you just said, and yes of course its not guaranteed that all proshippers will react the same but one bad apple doesnt mean theyre all horrible, hence also said in the video
@@nyawaineko I wanted to point out why would me and anyone who doesn't agree with this video won't remove proshippers from their dni, thanks for your opinion, I'll delete my comment if my pov changed, but till now I never met an innocent proshipper if that even exists, it would be understandable for someone who is trying to cope, but most proshippers didn't really experience what they are shipping causing victims to feel misunderstood and even more traumatized for getting their trauma romanticized
Proshippers actually aren't good, but kids might do it because of childhood trauma. It's still not good to do it tho and they should find a way to get out of that proshipper habit (before a watched the video)
(Child Sexual Assault victim here so I'm talking from my own standpoint when it comes to these, being called a pedophile within the states has to be 16 and above it differs between cases of child on child assault ) No lie I agree with just a little bit of this at the end of the day I'm not a pro shipper I just can't get with it I love dark themes yes and I personally don't believe minor should be a part of the community especially with the topics and subjects that are mentioned within it's in a community as a whole that just looks like a potential chance of like grooming and being taken advantage of instill I personally don't believe minors should technically be on the internet but you can't really stop that. This is one tad bit that I do hate that Pro shippers say fiction doesn't affect reality when multiple cases fiction has I think that shouldn't be used in an argument in the slightest I can give multiple cases where fiction has affected reality 1. Lolita ( started wave in the 2000s sexualization Middle School the high school girls)which was already there made it more prevalent FIVE of fiction affecting reality 2. Jaws( caused a worldwide Panic of sharks which also ended up making certain species of sharks endangered fun fact the Creator did regret making that movie because of it and now he protects sharks) 3.slenderman (the case of the may 31 2014 stabbing in the state of Wisconsin two 12 year old girls ended Loring and stabbing their friend 19 times) 4.scream( in September 22 2006 two teen boys mimicking what they seen in the horror classic movie Scream stalked and filmed stoddart before stabbing her to death) 5.Loli/shota ( has been a problem for Japanese women for a long time and young boys and has been linked to the increase of sexual assault which is something they're still dealing with and fighting against)"best way i can sum it up" The same with underage I believe as much as I hate it I do believe people that consume a certain type of content bar within that paraphilia including people that consume lollicon content I believe they have a pedophilic feeling in nature The same with slasher and True Crime investigators though it may sound hypocritical of me because not everyone is a violent person when it comes to these genres but anything that touches under age sexual content is not I believe strongly that there is a paraphilia involved with that situation the same could be said for people that read/draw zoophilic content. Blood and gore can't be put in the same category because they're different form the sexual or paraphilia content. Unless it's specifically snuff (which can age demographic in it) which is a mixture of graphic violence and sexual paraphilia , SA, CSA, torture, murder, Necro acts done apon a victim. It's okay to like and explore dark things cuz naturally as human beings we have morbid curiosity but we also have to accept the fact that fiction does affect reality especially with someone that can't tell the difference or someone that consumes a media for so long that it warps your perception of reality which time and time again has been shown The more you consume a certain amount of media the more it consumes you even though this is talking about ships this can also be talked about in political movements such as the alt-right pipeline. Your opinions are valid but they're kind of flawed at the same time I'm not a anti-pro I can be considered a profic.
EDIT: THIS IS AN OLD COMMENT. I didn’t look at the situation more clearly at the time. (7/21/2024) I feel like some antishippers use proshipping as an excuse to feel superior to others just because of their favorite ship not being a proship, which fun fact: makes me hate that “non-proship” ship even more - Sincerely, someone who used to be a shipper, but not anymore due to the relentless toxicity of shippers and the many shipping wars that have existed since the dawn of time
@@spunchflopbadpants Yeah that is true. Tbh I didn’t look at the situation more clearly, so I’ll say this: Back when I made that comment I thought I saw more antishippers treating their ships as better because it’s ‘not immoral or problematic’ But now I know that both communities (non-darkshippers (idk if there’s another word for it but I know it’s not antishipper) and darkshippers, as both these communities would be the ones shipping either non-taboo or taboo ships) have their levels of entitlement over ships, just with different reasons as to why.
CSA victim here! I don't plan on commenting on this video, but since a lot of people are bashing this video with no proper criticism and no proper agree and disagree. Just a disclaimer, I'm not a proshipper, I'm not into the problematic stuff, especially in mainstream media where it was handled poorly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking a piece of dark fiction. But a lot of antis don't use the block button, instead harassing artists on social media, even if they're not a proshipper nor glamorizing it. Some of them are even EXPOSED for being creeps themselves, look at the creator of Mighty Magic Swords. He denied a struggling artist because they draw weird porn he doesn't like and look who processes ACTUAL CP. This proves that a lot of anti are performative and have skeletons in their closets. If an anti is virtue signaling about proshipping, chances are they're worse than their counterparts
@@SukiNoKoe please shut up you're genuinely so disgusting if you think glorifying sensitive snd disgusting topics is okay 💀 just bc you describe normal people with normal hobbies as "whiny" and "sensitive" doesn't make you right LOL
I have a lot to say about the fujoshi and fudanshi topic as I am an anime fan and had it exposed to me for a long time But for now, all I can say is, not all fujoshis are cis straight women, and not all fudanshis are gay men And also, some fujoshis/fudanshis are pretty chill
16:35 this point you made might actually be dumb. if you take a show like south park or family guy. those shows know they are about to make a joke about touchy/dark subjects. but they make it laughable and talk about the perspective from both sides to make it funny for both parties. thoes shows use this thing called dark humor
by the way i can’t believe you pulled out oxford dictionary for the definition of murder then say accidental murder doesn’t exist when it 100% it’s called involuntary manslaughter
I'm so confused, i watch RUclips so i can understand What's happening in the world but i feel like i should watc the lego movie on loop instead of RUclips. I don't understand this video or any of the comments
29:52 maybe I just don’t understand this but romanization (excuse me if I spelled that wrong) is when you think of something as romantic in a way normalizing it by no way does this correlate are with non realistic art styles maybe I just have the wrong definition of it but I got it off of one of her sources, could someone tell. E what she meant because I really don’t understand
Love how the angry anti crowd in the comments clearly didn't watch the video lmao. You literally did such a great job explaining your opinion that in order for them to disagree and villainize you and proshipping they had to shove their fingers in their ears and scream "i cant hear youuu!!1!!!1!"
Basically just "Proshipping good! Helps people cope with trauma! Just ignore all the romantizing of toxic and unhealthy sexual topics! Antis are bad and want to censor everything! Let people ship who they want!" Pretty much what I'd imagine is the mindset of most people who call themselves proshippers
@@Emo_Killuathey barely touch actual concerns with this content, I don’t care if it’s fictional a community should not allow child predators to use this community as a hub
I feel like this comment will get taken down but its worth a shot. 17:58 The reason on why people have this view is because 🍇 cannot be justified in any shape or form compared to other crimes. Imagine these hypothetical/real situations: M*rder: I'll use this case that happened in Iran as an example. (This happened quite recently and I can link some articles if needed) A girl aged around 12-14 had k*lled her husband who was a grown adult that she was forced to marry that had even went as far as to 🍇ing her, I personally believe what she did was justifiable. (Before you say that it "doesn't count as m*rder" I suggest you look at how the news covered this and the labels they had used) Robbery: Stealing hygenic or baby products that you cannot afford/get Etc (No I am not justifying other crimes that actually can't be justified either) 🍇 meanwhile, what purpose does one do it for?? Just to get temporary pleasure which ruins the other persons life which they have to live for the rest of their life, same with other crimes that are related to it (had to word this a little carefully since it could get taken down)
To be fucking for real as someone who developed trauma from grooming and is really scared of incest ecc are gross okay when I find them unwanted in my feed I get really scared and feel gross
But also on the flipside as well, they’re completely silence on Yuri, which is very interesting that they’re totally fine with Yuri, but they draw the line to yaoi which I have my own problems with Yuri
@@fluffysunshine_ Yuri itself has its own problem but however, because people treat all yuri is self as pure and innocent. You can’t actually argue with these people at all because they have a certain mindset because they’re two women. Women can’t do anything wrong.
Nobody gaf about yaoi or yuri we’re concerned with the posts that literally depict ABUSE and get likes off it. The most concerning part is that there are people out there who Draws abuse and then there are Others that enjoy that abusive content. Do you see the problem
I have some words to say about legality doesn’t equal morality. While yes, it doesn’t equal morality, but laws are built on the premise of morality. So many people can stand up and say “murder is bad” and it be true both legally and morally. These laws were put in place to give people justice for morally abhorrent acts. Saying “l0l! Isn’t bad because it’s illegal” completely destroys the notion that it was made illegal BECAUSE liking children is morally incorrect. Romanticizing the idea of children having disgusting acts done to them is bad. Sexualizing a child is bad. I can’t believe this has to be broken down for you to understand.
I guess the thing that feels wrong is why someone would want to create such depictions. Why would somebody create p0rnographic material depicting children, if they aren’t attracted to it. /genq Also they are providing content for people who are attracted to that stuff. I think there’s a difference between the things people create, and the people who consume that media. I did watch the video to see if there’s anything that could change my mind, and quite a few of your points are solid. I personally still disagree, but good work on the video anyways! I like seeing different perspectives on things.
The problem is not the existence of problematic things in media (like pedophilia), the problem is pro-shippers glorify it and enjoy seeing characters in those situations. Things like that need to be handled with care and not be used as fetish material.
Before you make any assumptions about me regarding my opinion on this, please understand that I am not coming from this from a malicious perspective like some other might have come from here. What I wanna say is, since you seem to be a minor yourself (please correct me if that‘s not the case) this is raising red flags for me. I was groomed as a minor by people into this content to believe things you are also arguing here to a certain extent. And because of that alone I just want you to know that if the people you surround yourself with are defending content including minors, real or not, ask yourself why they are. especially if they do it very passionately. Cause these people, usually adults that prey on kids like me back in the day and probably you as well if you are indeed a minor, they have a strategy to break you down into believing things they wanna do to children is ok. Or for you to be conpfortable doing things for them that you wouldn‘t otherwise. This is why I feel like this sort of defense is always a red flag cause it usually comes from people who watch this content to feed an addiction. One that won‘t go away if you keep feeding it. Even if they make up these claims that somehow the fictional thing prevents offending. Wich has neither been proven or denied. Since this argument exists because there has not yet been a study to know how much this content actually makes the issue worse. However, with this content, defending it really only serves one group. That being pdf files. Because i don‘t see anyone disgusted by this content watching it. So really, what is the utility in defending it? A claim people make that it somehow stops offenders? One that cannot or has not ever been proven? So we‘re going off of anecdotal evidence here? I‘d say that is a weak argument. And especially a claim as that should have more of a scientific backing if it was true because that‘d be good if it could decrease offending. But the thing is, we don‘t have this evidence. In either direction. And there is good reason for it. This is why I like to go back to the topic of dru*s cause in a way ppl that are into you know what are in a bit of a similar position. That being an addiction/drive towards u know what with kids. So think of it this way, when a sober person struggling with addictions tells you they cannot use non alc*holic beer or anything that tastes like said substance, cause it‘ll make em want the real stuff even more than before. What does that tell us? Well, it tells us that in fact, addictions usually make it so if you want to stop, you have to in many cases avoid the thing like the plague. Fallbacks happen but usually, substitutes especially ones that are close to the real thing only make it worse. And u know what? We don‘t have studies on lo*i fans and them getting worse by consuming said content. But we do have a lot of evidence for what i said in regards to addiction. So think about it. What is it if the thing that gives you a kick causes harm yet you can‘t stop wanting more of it? An addiction. And what helps an addiction? Fighting this urge and also learning effective ways to avoid it. Cause that works for people. Not substitutes that are almost the same thing. And not other substances either cause usually it only makes you want more of the stuff you crave. And that is a strong argument. Cause you can compare the 2. Both cause harm to people if you endulge. Both make the person endulging‘s lives worse. And both are addictive and difficult to overcome. So why would anyone argue in favor of content that feeds said need and creates hunger for it? Why would you be so eager to defend it? Who does defending it serve? Does it really serve the future victims? Or the perpetrators? Cause i doubt it serves either of them. Enabling a life ruining issue instead of encuraging better management and therapy wich actually helps. And letting minors, the most vulnerable in our society become nothing but lab rats for some assumed reality of this type of content being somehow good to prevent harm. Something that has never been proven. One could argue that actual, real footage of u know what could also be seen as maybe a grey zone? If it was made already and the material is there. A dodgy person could argue that the fact that it is already there, that it could be used in a harmless manner. But the reason we don‘t argue this is because at the end of the day, if you start to open that can, you cause a trickle down effect. You open up and enable a market. Caude it never just ends at 1 video or picture. And so how can we call fictional content here not causing said issue but real content causing it? What makes the difference? Cause I don‘t think there is one. Other than maybe the fiction being safer to seek out. But less difficulty shouldn‘t be what we use to justify things. At the end of the day, you are enabling a damaging substance to be given to people who are addicted to it. People who need to learn to not depend on it for their sake, and also the victims sake. So I do really not agree with this take. Cause usually the people that groom minors like me or probably you as well into defending this stuff are people that are already overstepping the „safe“ thing to groom us, real minors into being harmed. And that alone shows the flaw in this argument. You might feel an intrinsic urge to disagree with me if you read it this far. You might even think this isn‘t a good argument. But i urge you to examine who made you advocate for their substance to be legal and not socially condemned? Who made you develop the arguments you make in your videos. Who benefits from them? And especially if my assumption is correct and you are a minor, what do you think these adults are doing trying to make you desensitized to content that se*ualizes you while also drilling into you that it‘s ok if they draw it instead of getting your pics? What happens if they start to „rp“ and say that isn‘t a problem cause it‘s fantasy? What barriers did they erode in you through that? What if they want you to send a „pose reference“ for their little u know what artworks and ask you to make it a n*de picture? And how much manipulation would it take for you to trust them enough to send it? Cause that is what they do. The people you are making excuses for. The people you are arguing their arguments for. They do this. And I know from experience. While they are the proof that their arguments hold no water. But you won‘t see it cause they have already made you what they want you to be. Easy prey. So please for anything that is good, think about it and talk about it to others that aren‘t these kinds of people. Listen to the comment section here. At least the people trying to be cheritable. Listen to older people and their experiences being a child online and how that got them into bad situations. Do not just listen to the people arguing for this content to be legal. Cause if you do, you are in an echo chamber. And there is nothing leftist about being in an echo chamber of yes men. Be curious and open minded not only to people that agree with you. And question the people you agree with. That is what critical thought is for. It makes you learn things and solidify opinions. And it also shows you new perspectives that may change your view on things. Cause at the end of the day we don‘t want to harm minors. We don‘t want to punish non offenders in therapy either. We want you to not be a megaphone for people that want to do harm and want to do it to the people i just mentioned. There‘s plenty of people groomed like i was. And also plenty who were harmed by adults as children. Listen to them when you want to do good. Not the adults that harmed or manipulated them. Because trust me. The people like this Carmen person do not care about us, or you, or any other minor. They only care about silencing anyone who speaks out against their grooming strategy. You are nothing but a propaganda tool for them. And if they have all these „great opinions“ on this topic why do they need you to be their mouth piece for them? Why can‘t they do that themselves? I‘ll tell you why. Cause just like my abuser, carmen and all the rest of them, the only thing they do care about is getting their fix. No matter how badly it ruins us. Or our lives. The trauma. The the hours of therapy we have to get for it. The trust issues. They never cared about any of that.
I understand your point when you say its OK to have bad themes in fiction but the issue with proshipping is that people often romanticize such topics and end up going on to condone or perform in such acts IRL due to their desensitization to the topic
While i do agree that very dark subjects can be used in media if it's for the sake of exploring something dark, that is not what proshipping is. Proshippers actively enjoy what they're shipping, it's never a case of "oh i just think it's interesting to explore as a topic" they literally encourage all the horrible shit they ship, or in other cases were groomed into liking it. I literally know this because i had been groomed into minor proshipping before, with the whole pj's daycare comic shit. I always rooted for fresh to get with PJ but looking back it was a fucking disgusting pedophilic ship. I was even farmed for proshipper content when i was younger, because someone asked me to draw their ADULT oc with my TODDLER oc, and i thought it was just meant to be innocent. But no, they were a fucking proshipper, so they took advantage of me not knowing at the time. Stop trying to defend proshipping like it's not this gross no morals shit.
I had a creature that ad conjoined organs that detect light to see color, movement, and shapes, they had sorta two eyes but at the same time it’s a singular eye. Your characters have the eyes of a speculative alien organ I created a year ago😭🙏
mg could you've not released this video like exactly 1 week earlier i literally vowed to quit shipping discourse this sunday and i don't wanna break that less than a week in 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I think we should look at both sides of the conflict more often We've grown to accept what people tell us more often instead of doing our own research and coming up with our own beliefs. Believe me, I'm not innocent, but the number of people in these comments that didn't watch this video made me scoff honestly. Thank you for giving your side, I'll watch intently
There are antis trying to get this account spam reported now (and calling people "sex deviant freaks" and "subhuman" lmao), which is how I found out about it (I go through their tags to block them). I don't go here, but nice video.
i watched the entire video and .. i mostly don’t agree with any of these points! i’m sorry (as someone who tries to understand these points.) i understand where your coming from however i cannot personally agree with these sorry.
Most antishippers mostly from what I have seen, come out of proshipers doing horrible things. I agree, some proshippers are okay... but some of them are usually.. kids that shouldn't get a pc or phone , or stuff(like you said) . I think both sides are wrong generally. Some silly guys I have seen being apart of the proshipper shit , are mostly very, very, very , toxic. And can't accept having others being haters. Loli-con is not exactly illegal but... dude.. why do you like that stuff... its fucking weird, most stuff is is more morally to be bad, not exactly talking about the law This debate is a bit stupid , and this war going on , leading into sexual harassment or bullying is ... strange .. Also most your like arguments are like epic.. soooo... yeah (this will be deleted soon if stuff lmao, but I'm sorry if my English is bad chat) (im also trying to understand yall.../pos)
@@kittencomicslol The legality of lolicon varies from place to place. But MG is being very dishonest when they say that the only reason people don't like lolicon is because it's illegal
Honest I don’t care what people ship as long if it is not minor x adult,incest, or zoophiles. Now I personally find some things weird to ship but that’s just me and my opinion.
To everyone who wants to comment 30 seconds after the video or comment as soon you click on the video, I strongly suggest you watch it before your ass starts to jump into conclusions. 😀😀😀
Y'know what- this was pretty solid, I was iffy when I saw it but this was pretty solid ngl. This did help me on getting a better understanding of things and I genuinely find this pretty helpful, so I'll keep a more open mind abt it, still iffy but I will try and think of it this way and in a more positive mind set. 🎉
absouletely do not try to look at it in a positive light, there is no benefit to proshipping, more especially when publicly shown and discussed about, if someone proships in private, that's fine, but it gets a problem when it's normalized in media, it affects reality. Proshippers are just trying to sugarcoat their beliefs and try to make a convincing enough argument for those on the fence beforehand.
@@Theo.waffles A lot of proshippers enable darkfic media, this one in particular is trying to make proshipping sound like a good thing or something that has no harm, when it does. I just replied bc it saddens me to think people can fall victim to their words and start to transfer to their side. bc a reminder is that proshipping is the excuse for people to engage in pedophiliac, incestual, illegal, and other morally wrong behaviors in media. Also a lot of this creator's points weren't cohesive and they used inaccurate quotes and examples of antis to further prove their biased point. I hope you can stray from these type of people trying to convince you it's okay and I apologize if I came off strong
People don’t understand that proshipping is basically ship and let ship no matter if the ship is cute or between a 9 year old or a 20 year old. Proshipping is basically “Oh, you ship a man in his 30s and his daughter who’s below the age of 15 AND find it cute? That’s fine.” Being a proshipper doesn’t inherently mean you ship shit like pedophilia, incest, or anything like that but you support the idea that it’s fine to do that. It isn’t strictly “problematic ship”. However, proshipping is still harmful and problematic because it romanticizes or sexualizes problematic shit. “B-But it’s just fiction!” Fiction has affected and placed a HUGE impact on reality for a long time, probably before anyone in this comsec and the person who posted this video has been born (might I remind you of propaganda). If it affects people positively then it can affect people negatively. One of the most important reasons as to why proshipping is bad is because it takes real issues that victims have suffered for and turned into something romantic or cute. Putting two characters in a relationship who shouldn’t be in a relationship isn’t shipping but thinking they should and that it would be cute if they are is, is the problem. Another reason as to why it’s harmful is because of the impact the community puts onto younger people because of how it actively brings these ships to light and turn them into something positive and okey dokey and then ending up thinking that it’s alright if that type of content is portrayed in reality. An excuse I saw for this was that proshipping is mostly sexual, but it doesn’t have to be strictly sexual at all, so it isn’t really a “minors entering adult spaces” issue 😅 ESPECIALLY if a lot of proship content literally involves minors and are making adult content for media where the target audience is intended for children. One more excuse i found is that apparently, the horror genre shouldn’t exists because it depicts unjustifiable crimes like murdering innocent people, manipulation, and shit like that. The entire point of those existing is that they’re meant to be perceived as negative and not positive or neutral, unlike proshipping. They’re meant to scare and shock you, not make you giggle and say “aww that’s so romantic!” Onto another reason why proshipping is harmful is that people in the community make others believe that this (either comshipping or darkshipping) is actually a good coping mechanism for sexual trauma when it isn’t. It is completely okay to depict your trauma onto art but it’s not okay to romanticize or sexualize it for, wel, obvious reasons, no? Others might have said that “but this coping mechanism is the only one that works for me!” but are so miserable with their life that I believe that it’s like drugs where you only feel good and nothing actually improves😅. Something being a coping mechanism ≠ doesn’t mean it’s good, it can also be self-harm. One more reason I’m gonna put here before I dip is that being a proshipper can also affect other people, which has a lot of reasons but let me put down two. Proshipping means you believe that any ship (whether or not it will be considered problematic) is fine and should be treated well, which means it should be fine if you ship real people, no? It should be fine if you ship real people with people they shouldn’t even be in a relationship with, like their parents or relatives, their abusers, their pets, etc… This might not be valid cause the entire point of proshipping is that “it’s just fiction” so let’s stay on that lane. More than 12 million people are affected by intimate partner violence, thousands of rape victims each year, 34,000 online grooming crimes were recorded in the last 6 years, these are crimes that ruin the lives of people and permanently affect the development of children IN REAL LIFE and I’m also one of the people who experienced some of these. How do you think other victims feel seeing their trauma depicted as romantic or cute? How do you think other victims feel seeing more people becoming into victims due to the influence of the proshipping community? Proshippers love to use “fiction” as an excuse because it’s not actually affecting real people when it quite obviously does and it’s been used on propaganda, PSAs, and any media trying to spread awareness on a situation whether they’re doing it in a harmful or helpful way. Fiction will ALWAYS impact reality in some way.
That's a bunch of crap. Proshipping does not cause harm; PREDATORS CAUSE HARM. And proshippers NEVER ship real people; that's gross! "How do you think the victims feel?" I think they need therapy if art online triggers them that badly lol also they should stop seeking it out. "How do you think other victims feel seeing more people becoming into victims due to the influence of the proshipping community?" Proshipping community discourages minors from even being there. There is no "influence."
@@SukiNoKoe Been waiting for someone like you. Anyways, it’s funny how you say that “proshippers never ship real people” when I provided a second example for that because of the fact that it ties to real people but I’m certain that you probably didn’t read it. Matter of fact, just by looking at your reply, it doesn’t even look like you read the entirety of the comment itself considering you cherry picked which ones to argue about and you had the audacity to call it a bunch of crap when you only went against like… 2-3 sentences, but I’ll budge. “I think they need therapy if art online triggers them that badly” This has like, a lot of flaws cause not everyone can afford therapy, not everyone can literally filter out everything cause of the lack of censorship, and not everyone can get into spaces that don’t involve adults making content of pedophilia, incest, etc. because somehow, they’re always there, the same way how a child can literally look up their favorite my little pony character and see porn of them in just a few scrolls away. The fact that you’re also dismissive of actual victims tells a lot because it’s completely valid to be upset over people depicting your trauma as romantic or cute. That’s exactly is what’s harmful (+ a shit ton of things i cited in my og comment) and yet you’re too ignorant to understand that because y’all wanna make excuse after excuse over the behavior that people actively call out due to how harmful it is.😭 I’ve already explained how it’s harmful in my original comment but you ignored allat. If you gon put the effort to be against me then at least put in the effort to be able to read and comprehend everything otherwise the shit you yap goes to waste. “But the proshipping community discourages minors from being there!” The creator of this video is literally a minor (16) and proshipping isn’t limited to sexual or 18+ content either because proshipping isn’t strictly about sexual shit, it’s basically having the mindset that you’re allowed to ship anything and accept any ship no matter how problematic it’s considered, that’s why a lot of them are filtered. Not to mention there’s a lot of proshippers making THAT kind of content about media that’s literally targeted towards children (example: bluey, sofia the first, tmnt, ben10, etc.) and y’all are complaining that minors keep finding and interacting abt the shit y’all create? Thinking abt it, why are a lot of y’all creating adult spaces in children’s spaces 😭😭??? Funny how you also denies that there’s no influence when this mindset has been influenced on younger people who are most likely new to interacting with fandom spaces and there’s been several cases where it has been used as an influence. “B-But it’s the predators fault! Not the content they used!!!” and the content is romanticizing or normalizing real issues depicted onto fiction. Also, people who influence that mindset don’t even have to be necessarily predators, they can be ignorant and stupid people as well who don’t realize how much fiction can actually impact reality. 😭 If you gon reply but disregard most of what I’ve said AGAIN I’m blocking your ass after I make another reply. I’m not gonna keep arguing if you’re gonna keep cherry picking what you can argue and what you cannot. 😭
@@SukiNoKoe So my other reply doesn’t appear on this account but it’s actually there so I suggest you read just either one of them to waste less time cause I thought it got deleted and that’s pretty embarrassing but anyways It’s funny how you had the audacity to say my comment is just a bunch of crap and then cherry picking what to argue about and what not to argue about while completely ignoring everything else. Like I made a second example after the entire “shipping real people” cause of how proshippers use the entire “it’s just fiction” argument but you didn’t even read that, probably. You pointed out like… 2-3 sentences to be against about but I’ll budge. Anyways, let’s start with the entire thing where “Proshipping isn’t harmful, but predators are!” cause I went against that argument in another reply thread where you also replied in and didn’t bother to read the other things the OP of that comment said, but I’ll repeat it anyways. Predators ARE harmful and can even use anything that isn’t even inherently harmful to groom or prey on others, especially children. However, if the content the predator is using is basically pieces of media that depict real issues as romantic, cute, or normal, then that content is considered as harmful. I’ve explained why proshipping is harmful in my og comment and I suggest you to try and read and comprehend the things I’ve said and pointed out cause I’m not gonna repeat that part again. Moving on, the “Get therapy” argument is hilariously awful cause 1. not everyone can get therapy (and surely you aren’t even paying it but you’re heavily suggesting it to people you don’t know), 2. not everyone can filter out everything especially the bigger the fandom is where it’s literally everywhere (and also, the lack of censorship) and especially if they don’t know how to filter content like that (aka children + bonus points if they’re searching through google and certain images aren’t filtered) and 3. Not every victim has to be necessarily “triggered”. It’s perfectly fine to be upset seeing people depict their trauma as cute and romantic/sexual and see them make a bunch of excuses as well while a lot of them are also not even victims of those things (the entire coping excuse is also addressed in my og comment just incase). Funny how you’re blaming victims for feeling “triggered” over… People fetishizing trauma, oops. Speaking about number 2, why are a lot of y’all making adult spaces in spaces intended for kids? Like, why are some of y’all making nsfw accounts that revolve around content like… Idk, Bluey, ben10, tmnt, sofia the first, MY LITTLE PONY and then complain about children interacting and finding your content? 😭 I bet you gon excuse this as well with “it’s just art/fiction/pixels!!!” cause no real people are involved in the said content. “But proshippers keep minors from being in the community!” … The creator of the vid is like, 16, a large number of proshippers are minors, proshipping isn’t even inherently strictly 18+ because it’s a mindset about ship and let ship, and again, a lot of proshippers that create 18+ content with media intended for children… The fact that you’re denying influence is so funny cause look around and you’ll see a bunch of proshippers who are literally below the age of 18 on both twitter, discord, and tiktok, probably other socials idek which definitely means that there’s a LOT of influence whether intended or not. If you gon cherry pick what to argue again I’m blocking you after sending a reply cause how r u gon reply like this when probably almost all of it has been addressed in my og comment 😭😭⁉️⁉️
@@whotfiseliiishe wont, infact it'll probably affect her mental you dipshit bullying a minor isn't doing anything and if you think that i think your the one who needs help
say proshipper but get rid of the "pro" and "hipper" and add "kibidi toilet" after the s (relax its called dark humour)
imma die
evil dark humor /j 😈😈
You totally owned them snowflakes 🤣🤣😂
@@ChillRaymond69 you think kids getting raped is funny?
Relax liberals…
No. Glamorising and romantisizing and sexualising ships involving extremely unhealthy relationships even including minor characters (pdfilic ships). You also mentioned to just keep it away from the kids, it's not that easy. If a kid consumes content containing two characters in an unhealthy relationship but its isn't glamorised, romantisized or sexualised the kid is less likely to be harmed by it and if they are it's not on the hands of the creator of said fiction for being weird because they portrayed said relationship the way it truly is. And the thing is proshippers don't limit their content to a site of people seaking it out, let's take pornographic content for example, we can all agree that posting that kind of content out of 18+ spaces is wrong, and their are locks you can put on to avoid this content just popping up. You can't do that with proship content, it's everywhere becuase proshippers believe it's fine and the PROSHIPPER BELEIF is quite litterally fiction doesn't affect reality. And also just, morals?? Content like gore or 18+ content is not inherently bad or harmful done correctly. Pr0ship content is, the two are nor comparable with this logic. Last on this point people don't TRY to trigger victims of certain behaviours, but this content litterally shamelessly does and if proship content didn't exist (at the very very least with restrictions and out of the public eye) that's an easy fix. Also.. s3xual1sing children is.. wrong?? Lolicon and shotacon is the open s3xual1sation of child characters is MORALLY wrong, if we're using morals it is wrong. It's feeding pdfiles content and just, pretty much my prior points. It's icky. Anyway that's it. If content such as sibling x sibling , minor x child, abuser x victim etc CAN be handled correctly, in a light that does handle the grounds of the situation it is dealing with. Proshipping is pure romantisisation. I hope this helps your viewpoint
Im to the last part of the video and when did fujoshis come into this I'm getting brain damage. Yes I will criticise Japan for their weird media what r u on abt bro?? I was being nice in my comment but this videos just gone hay wire 😭😭
If we’re using morals here then young people getting hurt in horror movies are wrong
Then let’s stop posting bad words because kids could stumble upon it, let’s only start posting kid friendly content. It’s not my problem if a kid see’s my videos
@@ConfettieShippss guys…. ban horror movies!!! WHAT IF SOMEONE MURDERS SLMEONE!!!!
@@ConfettieShippss No because they aren't glorifying murders and/ot serial killers. Child dies-> that's supposed to be bad. Child shipped with an adult and enjoying it??? Thats glorifying and becoming desensitized to such images may have consequences
People in real life: hey how’s it going
@@mcdonaldsmukbangi have. they didnt gaf
Imagine showing this to an isolated monk
@@palemeadows Please get better people in your life. Especially if you were a child telling an older person that because they are going to do the same to you. Please please please change your mindset before it hurts you or someone else. I’m genuinely concerned for you. Please get help, I am not joking or trying to criticize you. I do not personally know you but you seem like you have gone through some hard times and situations that caused you to proship. Please seek therapy, you have no idea how much it helps. ❤
@@DaccaKoolade
looks around. you’re extremely odd.
i am not a child. my mindset? that i shouldn’t harass people over drawings? seriously? youre such a fucking annoyance. are we banning video games now, because…. what if they make kids violent 😓😓😓
?? correct, you do NOT know me??? you freak! “seek therapy,” ableism isnt cute babe. you obviously havent talked to real people OR gone to therapy, they do not give two fucks.
@@axiliator19 they would find antis odd
Oh! That's not..
In all realness, proshipping & darkshipping fucked up my life and absolutely ruined me. I was influenced to believe inc3st, non-c0n, gr00ming were okay, until I experienced it myself, and I was groomed by proshippers. Censoring taboo content isn't okay, but this video is not it.
And I'm Japanese, and I've never seen ONE anti be racist. I'm a pansexual achillean transboy and most BLs are written by cishet women with a fetish for MLM. I personally think YOU'RE the racist one for even making these correlations. You are saying that only the Japanese have a hand in BL whilst the chinese, koreans, filipinos, etc. Also, have a hand in BL, too, and so do Americans.
@cosmic_nightzz finally someone else calls her out for this 👅👅 it's so clear she's tryna paint japanese as being proship so it's easier to paint antis (the people she's arguing against) as evil bigots. I've seen antis being racist but the way mg writes it in the vid makes it so obvious that she cares more about painting the people she disagrees with as stupid bigots instead of speaking about an issue.
And that’s your own personal experience
@@Sweetheart_dreamer doesn't make proshipping okay?
@@cosmicsgrave and that’s your opinion
imagine showing this video to a sick victorian child
brain cancer
They will have the energy to despise it.
the victorian child is gonna die cuz of the stench
@@ottr_bvgzz makes sense
The last straw
I'm not a proshipper nor an antishipper but a secret third thing. Someone who touches grass.
ur so real for that also LOTL PFP AND USERNAME
On god
anti shippers love to harass little kids who were prolly groomed into it and proshippers love to glorify pedophilia and inc3st
we love to touch grass 🗣‼️
@@q1855days Who do you ship in HnK?
@@Phos67 no one. i love the art, story and animation though!😋
Taboo subjects being included in media is NOT proshipping. Proshipping is when people also actively romanticizes a taboo relationship, such as pedophilia and incest. YOU DID NOT describe proshipping properly and is still spreading misinformation about what proshipping actually is. Proshipping and darkshipping can also drive people to have very unhealthy habits and beliefs. Taboo subjects can still be portrayed in media without being romanticized or fetishisized. Proshipping has no sense of boundaries and just heavily romanticizes these dynamics. Just because people dont like it, it doesnt mean that they are antis, i myself, dont like it because its morally wrong.
Proshipping can absolutely affect reality, its not something that stays in the lane of fiction. Sometimes, when you are a proshipper, the things you like, really tell us something about your own personal beliefs. As ive stated earlier, proshipping can make people think how incest or pedophilia is ok. Dont you think that is something that has affected reality?
btw cause a war all you want in the comments idgaf not changing my mind lol.
I agree with you %100, I'd like to add that mg does think that fiction does affect reality but not to a 1:1 and she literally shows examples and states this IN THE VIDEO 25:11 😭😭 of fiction effecting reality, which is really funny because it causes some of her arguments in this vid to not make sense 😭
I agree with this personally. Especially considering that I (unfortunately) knew some proshippers during my life almost all of them where actively in to the media they consumed irl. The only people who didn't were naive 12 year olds who didn't know any better and changed their views as they got older
literally
i was absolutely gobsmacked when this shit popped up on my recommendations
@@alastoridk Some people who use pr0shipping are truma survivors trying to heal and they're valid imo as long as they don't hurt real kids.
@@SkylarThompson-mu1qs ok, but its not a healthy coping mechanism to indulge with. instead of further getting into this rabbit hole, they should seek professional health instead.
smh can people stop excusing dangerous behavior because ooh its a coping mechanism for trauma!!
hey lets not normalize this actually! my groomer was a proshipper and used the arguments as an excuse to normalize this stuff to me and i believed him for a long time, whether you like it or not proshipping will always be exposed to children and it WILL harm them like i and many other people were
Watch them say "erm well that's just your experience!!" Instead of getting the point
Same and it’s honestly disgusting. I’m sorry that happened to you btw :(
but then, isn't that the fault of the people showing it to children? as opposed to the fault of proshippers themselves??
for example, its damn near inevitable that a bunch of teens are going to find out about рояинuв. does that mean it's the fault of the creators there?
@@snartboy5000its the fault of both the people and the proshippers, i shouldnt have to explain why shipping a minor and an adult isnt ok and how that could effect people
@@brimalt there are some people who are more susceptible to being influenced by fiction (minors, for example), and those people should probably not be involved in proshipping.
however, IF a person is *mentally and emotionally mature and well enough* to stop themselves from mirroring these things in their real life (which is absolutely a thing that very many people can do), then i see no problem with consuming such dark content.
(of course, this isn’t saying everyone should like it-i’m just saying there’s no problem with people wanting to see it.)
in my opinion, lolicon is genuinely disgusting. the character is supposed to represent a child, physically and mentally. anyone attracted to loli's are attracted to the idea of a child in those situations. the character itself may not be real, but their attraction to child-like traits is. that isn't okay.
"But for God's sake, stay away from the kid's meals they're for fucking kids"
-Douchebagchocolat
@@mankindzbadhabit i mean, yeah, the attraction isn’t okay, but it’s only as bad as it is because of who it hurts (that is, children). so long as nobody is getting hurt, and nobody will be hurt in the future, i don’t see the problem? (and if somebody *is* getting hurt or will be hurt in the future, that’s not okay. like, at all. that isn’t proshipping anymore, it’s just wanting to f[ ] kids.)
Lolicon is just factually disgusting
exactly like make porn if you want idgaf. but like. Can we not include minors in it. like is it this hard to make someone 18+? i’ve heard way to many fricken story’s abt minors drawing lolicon themselves bc of how exposed they were to this stuff etheir by family for accidentally finding that side of the internet and with how impressionable they are it makes them belive the activities are ok and only realize it’s not until their older.
This discourse falls apart if you pick up a book. I'm serious. Read a book. Shipping discourse is pointless, just read.
It’s pointless both sides won’t listen and they’ll just go at it until the dawn of time
It's pointless on both sides. It's stupid on both sides.
Literally. I promise you no one in the real world cares about “proshipping” or whatever
literally its stupid on both sides
@@FredericksocoolIf you told someone in real life that you shipped a child with an adult, then you’d definitely be judged
Tbh, i think taboo stuff is okay if its used to tell an actual story and add depth into characters and as a way for artists to project themselves into art or just to make a backstory, not to romanticise it or fetishize it in any way because thats literally disgusting
Personally, i really dislike proshipping. But im not gonna go out of my way to doxx one
I hope this is valid yall 🚷🚷🚷🚷🚷🚷🚷🚷
Same here! Its kinda annoying how people go immediately Tabboo = bad when most of the time its not anything fetish-y or romanticized
Preach bro 👅👅👅 personally I think there's a massive difference between creating taboo media for a story or a good message, being edgy and trying to upset people, and genuinely supporting it irl
I can't agree on this one since it's really subjective to call something fetishy or romanticization. To some, any portrayal of dark themes is fetishy, to others the darkest stuff can be relatable and not even slightly romantic. Some people will fetishize anything no matter what the creators intent was, and that's why it's really hard to draw the line. It just comes down to people's personal experiences, and the ability to create your own space on the internet.
I know it's just your opinion but I wanna join the discussion with a slightly different point of view
i seek
Unsubscribing 💋Pro shippers aren't good They need help. Edit: thanks for the likes, btw, I made this comment 7 days ago y'all started a war if you don't like it womp womp just block me💀
Finally a normal person in this comment section
Real
Finally someone whit a brain
@@Bonejuice2 W
You want back up that statement? What harm comes from it?
Depicting dark situations properly is not the same as proshipping. Proshipping is the normalization and glorification of ab^isve topics. Ive supported you for a long time but i can not get behind this. The majority of proshippers i have seen are not healthy, and though EXPLORING dark topics in fiction can be healthy, GLORIFYING them is unsafe and I’ve seen a lot of proshippers use this mentality to gr00m kids. The entire concept of proshipping makes kids venerable to predators
Did you watch the whole video?
proshipping is not the glorification of abuse.
@@ImEpixLolz yes it is buckaro 😭
@@sadpianist5846 watched through half of it. I’m not listening to a mf using the loli debate of ‘oh well she looks like a child but is actually 10000 years old!!’
The proshippers in the comments can only repeat the same fucking thing istg "erm proshipping doesn't do that actually" yes it does. "Did you watch the video" yes I did, it wasn't good 😭
People in real life: Nice weather we’ve having yeah?
I literally cannot believe you brought up salad fingers. salad fingers is the most unserious example you could have EVER brought up, it is UNBELIEABLE 😭 sf is an extremley unserious series and even david firth knows that, but even then ive seen allegories to SA be handled with more decorum by sf than i have with proshippers...
Things like rape, pedophilia and abuse are COMMONLY addressed in media. “Pro-shipping” simply glorifies it. Being an “anti-shipper” doesn’t mean one wants to censor these topics from being brought to light as they should be (respectfully, and from the experience of a victim). Romanticizing these topics is harmful. Many children yes, do have unrestricted access to the internet. That doesn’t mean they’re seeking it out if they find content that romanticizes these topics. The “w-well gore what about gore!! Watching gore doesn’t make you wanna kill people!” argument is old. Films receive heavy backlash if it romanticizes the topics. Slasher films are HORROR FILMS they are intended to SCARE or FRIGHTEN the viewer. It does not ROMANTICIZE the act of taking another’s life. Lolicon is illegal in every country. Watching and consuming topics that romanticize things like sexual assault, abuse, incest, pedophilia, necrophilia and even ZOOPHILIA is however harmful. I’m a victim of rape, and my rapist happened to obtain “fictional” child pornography, which evolved into pornography of sexually exploited REAL LIFE children. Proshipping is essentially a rabbit hole to acting on these desires that harm those around those who go down the rabbit hole. It ties up into porn addiction. It can and does become a problem very quickly. I don’t think people with these desires should off themselves or anything, but simply receive professional help instead of feeding into it. Sex offenders are being made from this rabbit hole.
Overall, PLEASE seek professional help and tell your therapist about these thoughts. Take a break from the internet for a while for your own damn sake.
@@AllieWae Where did you get "lolicon is illegal in every country"🤨 it absolutely ISN'T. Lol
There is NO evidence that comshipping is a "rabbit hole" or is "harmful". You are merely using an anecdotal "Slippery Slope" case, saying "well my abuser was into it so that means everyone who is into it is an abuser or will turn into a sex offender!" No, that is dumb lol
@@SukiNoKoe My apologies I didn’t look up country, I looked up “is there any place that lolicon is legal in” and the overview said no. I should’ve looked more in depth into that segment. Regardless though, this does not disregard that lolicon feeds into the fetish of kids and is often eventually taken out on real like children.
@@AllieWae Um lolicon is illegal in like 8 countries and USA isn't one of them. No, a study was conducted and there were no such results. Please don't make things up.
can we kiss
@@SukiNoKoe u right gng, as I said I shoulda done more research b4 commenting, it’s CONSIDERED illegal in most states but not illegal in all of them.
I feel like many discussions around proshipping are framed in a very dishonest way. EVERYONE agrees that harassment over ships is not ok. Many adult proshippers claim they just want to ship their ships and be left alone, but will actively intrude in the spaces of minors by making proship or NSFW art of children's characters. This is something I experienced growing up in the brony fandom.
I can never in good conscious say it's ok for a minor to be proship. Too many predators have used the concept of proship as a way to introduce minors to taboo, inappropriate subjects and tell them they're acceptable and normal. In the video MG says an argument is "anti porn and anti kink" and also says that demonizing romanticization is "demonizing fetishes". It's not appropriate for a minor to defend these kinds of things. This isn't MG's fault, this is on adult proshippers for trying to make their ideology mainstream.
It's dishonest to claim that the only reason people would dislike lolicon is because it's illegal. People don't like it because it depicts children in sexual situations, and children cannot consent. Many of the arguments in this video are just strawmen and I don't think many people actually have these beliefs. Consuming loli does not cause pedophiles to ignore children. We have seen time and time again that pedophiles will go after kids regardless and will reoffend even after serving jail time.
Also, the reason why rape is generally considered worse than murder is because you're far more likely to meet a rape victim than a murder victim. Victims of rape are still affected by portrayals of rape.
Also many people in the comments are saying that most proshippers are minors which just proves my point. Why are all these kids having debates about anti kink and porn and defending incest fetishes. This is not ok
YES THATS WHAT IM TRYNA SAY LIKE??? So many fucking straw mans in this video
@aprilrain5553 REAALLL BRO 🙏🙏 it's actually so telling that she couldn't even argue why proshipping is okay normally so she had to make this train wreck of a video 💀💀 which is mostly switching up what most proships and antiships believe in order to fit her current argument, and taking antiship arguments in the most bad faith way humanly possible. Like the fujoshi part of the vid?? Was there even an argument for that part or did she just try to label antiships as being homophobic and racist?? 😭😭
couldnt have said it better myself. the very words "proship" and "antiship" are the fuel for the community that only exists because of a very black and white debate
I’d say I’m ’ship-critical or ship-crit’
Works on a case by case basis (except for if kids are involved that’s a hard line I won’t cross)
I was groomed because I thought these types of things were okay when I was younger.
I dont agree on harrassing minors, just educate them on what is and aint okay to ship.
hey so I completely agree that taboo topics in fiction is fine and good to explore but the way you're defending portraying horrible things in a positive light is completely and utterly harmful
just got further in the video- I take that back I do not agree with u at all what...
This right here 👏🏽
Oh dear I also just got more into the video ermmm wtf
Right, it's ok to have dark content in media, as long as it's not shown in a good light or as comedy and shit like that
the moment we’ve all waited for has arrived, MG UPLOADS!!
Going to watch this as someone whom hates both sides and thinks shipping discourse is extremely chronically online with an open mind and reply with my thoughts when I’m done
Okay I’m sorry but you keep mismatching arguments to fit yours and it’s really, really annoying.
You state antis are against things like lolicon, shotacon, etc etc. Sexual crimes in a pornographic and or romantic setting. Sure, okay. You then state antis are against portrayals of rape in general…? What? Are you stating your opposition is arguing against how dark topics are tackled in fiction or if they’re allowed to be in fiction at all? Those are two different statements.
Also you did the “mishmushing two arguments into one” thing again. You’re using “child molester” and “pedophile” synonymously. Not the same thing and frankly it’s really not that crazy to say the majority of those into things like loli and shota are pedophiles, even if they never offend, for reasons I will expand on if someone respectfully prompts me to.
And in slight correlation to what I’ve mentioned… wdym “every kink is fine if it doesn’t hurt anyone”…that is incredibly, incredibly vague and kind of gross. Do you know how many attractions exist?
Yea I keep saying it but she keeps generalizing both sides and it's annoying as sh1t. The anti arguments she's "refuting" are misrepresented, like the "romanization is bad claim" not bringing up how that term is very subjective and vary by person by person, and only uses her definition 💀💀 she also said that proshipping isn't like propaganda because propaganda is specially used to change you perspective, ignoring a portion of proshippers that literally use that art to gr00m people 💀💀
@@Corgi-is_a_dumb_loserI’m trying to be in good faith but it’s so annoying like how am I supposed to take someone who’s blending arguments together seriously
@cyanidepancake nahh atp I don't think anythin in this vid is in good faith 😭😭
She tried generalize antis as being more racist of a community because of a TWITTER THREAD but the proship community apparently doesn't have a grooming or ableism problem "not all of them are like that"😭😭 like girrlll at least try to hide ur bias. It ain't even spreading awareness to a problem or whatever she's sayin as an excuse because it's so obvious she's generalizing both communities and their opinions to make her side look better AND IT'S SO OBVIOUS??
Honestly I'm stubborn in my opinions but I can listen to other people's pov, but OMG this video is literally just refuted strawman arguments with somehow even worse logic n people n the comments r eating it up 😭
I don't know how many different shades of proshipping there are, but I know it used to stand for anyone that liked shipping characters. The fun ships online and in media, self inserts and crossing universes, it was safe and fun.
The reason the word is treated differently now, is BECAUSE people who enjoy writing/drawing or roleplaying abuse, illegal acts, immoral acts, etc. are using the proshipping label to build community. Half of that community, is also underage. It's all so bad to the point where I've been trying to coin "probshipping" to call these particular people out.
There's no benefit to indulging in KNOWINGLY illustrating your trauma. Therapists and psychology exist for a reason.
If all of this doesn't make sense, let me spell it out clearly: *Creating echo chambers of positive reinforcement for negative content, is BAD.*
You cannot give me any possible concrete reason for pro(b)shipping being good. Hell, I WAS ONE, UNKNOWINGLY at 12. That is HORRENDOUS. Write whatever sick and twisted stories you want, I can't stop you and I don't care. But children at younger and younger ages are getting engaged in sexual content (don't get me started on Roblox) and I find it irresponsible to share stories like these looking for hearts, likes, and pity brownie points.
The reason anti's lose their minds over sexual content in particular is because it's having a far greater effect on minors than, say murder. They are both terrible crimes, if someone is only creating content surrounding an illegal act of any kind, they need professional help. But there are far more grooming cases lately than a repeat of that Slenderman event (literally wake up every morning and look at RUclips, a new groomer is exposed every day)
One more way of saying the same thing I'm trying to say this whole time: I do not need you to thoroughly render a 40 year old man touching a child to tell me pedophilia is wrong. Art does not need to be that graphically explicit to get a point across. I do not need you to write a "masterpiece" of a painstakingly executed crime to show me kidnapping and murder is wrong. We can't just "mind our own business" when it's being publicized, normalized, and mainstreamed in the art community. I don't know if you noticed, but "antis" are mostly normal people. They are.. the majority of the art community. I'll explicitly state that they are against the people openly displaying their underage minor X abusive adult, and I know that's not every single proshipper. Proshippers who are not problematic should abandon the label, or we all have to work as a community to kick out the bad apples. Not every "anti" is good, and neither is every proshipper I understand that. But there is a giant red glaring issue here that I think is being talked over and ignored, which is that there are OPENLY CRIMINALS engaging in community and society, being emotionally rewarded for their issues.
Antis are famous for doxxing, harassing, and even physically harming others simply for shipping cartoons and you think this is "normal"?💀
I will never go out of my way to harass pro shippers but fiction CAN influence reality. That’s a non-debatable fact. plus, adults enjoying and being okay with disgusting acts like p3d0f3l1a is gross.
25:10 is where I address this point! I would recommend watching the video before commenting.
@@tocasmiley360 ….no? Where did I say that?
@@tocasmiley360 im watching the video right now and she literally doesn't? she brings up the fact that *some people* have the belief that fiction doesn't effect reality, but never says that she agrees.
@@xxmushroom.girlxx[Chorus]
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
[Verse 1]
Thank you USA
Stopping genocide
Helping small Kosova
Stopping the wrong fight
In 1999, helping in Kosova
Two men shaking hands
Clinton and Rugova
Saweetie 'NANi' Official Lyrics & Meaning | Genius Verified




[Chorus]
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
[Verse 2]
This work that we do
The way we thank you
This song that we sing
Memories will bring
In so many countries
You are keeping peace
You are the life saver
You are pain release
[Chorus]
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
Thank you USA
You are my best friend
You are the peace keeper
You are the legend
I'm aware OP/mushroom girl and most people won't read this so feel free to ignore/scroll.
I am going to try to actually type a comment explaining why proshipping is wrong without just insulting you like the other comments, despite how deserved I think those insults are.
Proshipping isn't simply writing or drawing unethical stuff, because if that was the case it'll be different. Writing or drawing unethical stuff but showing it as unethical and truthfully as bad as it is, is perfectly fine. However, glorifying or seeing it as okay or something to get off to is not okay and extremely gross. Despite the fact these writings or drawings are fiction, what they are showing is very much real. You can argue all you want that it's "fictional" and proshippers wouldn't actually harm kids but I disagree. Adult proshippers even use proshipping as a way to gr00m children.
Also, if you or anyone else is a proshipper and getting off to this type of art, I just want to ask, why? Why is it attractive? Even if it's fictional, as I said before, these concepts are very much real. Why would the concept of anything unethical ever make you feel anything other than disgust? Why is someone's trauma your f3tish?
Let's say the art isn't to get off to, despite that's what I usually see it used as even if said person claims it's to cope (I don't mean to generalize, going off my own experiences here) and let's say it's used to cope. How is it helping you cope? Is it a healthy coping mechanism? Do you not realize that not all coping mechanisms need to be made public, especially if they can be triggering or are unethical?
I would understand drawing art of you and your abus3r or anything else to cope, but why cope by drawing a character going through similar stuff you went through?
If it's because you want to project onto a character and have someone to relate to, I advise you do that but without the glorifying or f3tishizing that proshippers more often than not do.
If you want to project onto a character, show the said unethical thing as wrong instead of as positive like proshippers do.
Lastly, if a proshipper is a young kid I do not wish harm on them or anything and hope they figure out that proshipping is unethical and unhealthy :(
i don't know how to not be mad about this stuff and come off as hostile so i genuinely appreciate you being level headed about it and also expressing my exact beliefs
Too late. Antishippers already sent rape threats to the kid who made the video on Twitter.
@@Phos67 that's disgusting :(
I don't know how you can claim to be so strongly against something that you even dislike in fiction then wish it upon a real life person. I'm an "anti" too but I wouldn't do that because the whole reason I'm an "anti" is because I'm against that stuff.
(I put anti in quotations because I don't see the use for clarifying I don't support unethical stuff being glorified, because that's the bare minimum imo and antishipper sounds like you're against shipping as a whole. I guess I'd call myself an anti-proshipper though.)
@@alfhandle
being mad about this stuff is completely valid!! I just feel like people tend to just not listen when you're more hostile, even if you're right. They tend to think of it as "attacking" rather than justified anger or frustration.
@@NeilNordegrafxD That's good to know. I consider myself neutral, I just think think the endless harassment this kid got over this video will not do any good. I kinda hope delete the video, even if they don't change their mind, for the sake of their mental health, since they seem to read all the comments and most of them are just childish insults and that's not good for a kid to see. Antishippers need more people like you.
This video is so???? This comment is a mess and my own opinion that may not always be right but let’s start from the top.
Why is proshipping seen as morally wrong especially when consumed as a sexual part of media? The fact someone finds something sexually appealing isn’t a bad thing but when those things are children, people forcing themselves on someone who has not consented and victims of abuse is honestly so immoral. It’s always been wrong. Most people who GET into proshipping, specifically adults, are already into those things while children have just begun to learn those things and consume it as normal media (this is why you condoning adults to proship doesn’t work due to the fact these adults find some kid of sick pleasure from it).
Why would you intentionally create a safe space for pedo’s to share their desires and reaffirm this is okay behavior? You may not realize it but when proshippers find a place to be together and share their norms it becomes something that they all learn they can condone. Now sexual things are a part of pleasure, in other words a good thing to that person, if these things were written as something informational or simply venting then that would be okay but it’s literally for their own pleasure and twisted sense of view. Let’s look into why sexualizing children is wrong next, children are LITERALLY unable to consent in any way. The fact anyone could find a fictional child like a shota or loli sexually appealing is sick to think about because they’re based on REAL children. It’s the same reason people find it awful to sexualize nuns in media but this is a whole can of worms on its own.
“What about the people that enjoy horror movies or slashers anyway for entertainment, they’re problematic too?” An argument that proshippers bring up yet tend not to realize isn't the same thing as proshipping, other problematic situations in shows are usually NOT for sexual gratification and if they are consumed as such, it's seen as weird for a good reason. These thoughts are usually discussed in therapy and the person does their best to overcome it as they realize it’s a harmful line of thinking.
Furthermore I don’t know everything myself and I’m not afraid to admit that, people get an adrenaline rush when watching these movies but most people don’t actually want to kill anyone as compared to those who want to touch children. But say this, they never act on any behavior they consume and simply consume the media. It still doesn’t matter if this ruins one’s mental health believe it or not, propaganda exists (do not bring any propaganda about gay people into this, the queer community advocates for allowing them to be free and does NOT harm others in any way, they condone others to find themselves and not copy them) for a reason and proshipping mirrors that in a way, fiction DOES and has always affected reality regardless of age.
Finally what about proshippers who aren’t doing this for any sexual reason?
I still find this problematic as they post it online allowing other proshippers to find them and sexual predators.
If it doesn’t involve minors these people are usually in some way mentally ill and are more susceptible to fiction than regular people who have a clear separation of fiction and reality.
I’m going to bring up those being triggered because you can’t brush off an entire community of people not wishing to be sexualized, that is, people who have been in situations proshippers enjoy do not wish to be something to be enjoyed either as they’ve already felt violated once.
Bottom line?
People who proship to vent or to cope should NOT be posting this online anywhere as they’ll only spread it around and make their own. If you REALLY want to please keep it to yourself and look for mental health with a close friend who you’re able to share your experience with and who can support you.And people who proship with no real reason? Just really weird people who are probably in need of some kind of mental help. (This is genuine not an insult)
Whichever you are please just get help
Exactly with the point about horror movies! People are not jakeing it in the movie theater and if they are… I’m not sitting there.
I didn't read this comment initially and I almost said "holy yap" but then I read it and honestly ate
@@graciedavis7266 this is a yap session, just a based yap session.
@@Starlight-ue8jy TRUEE this WAS the yappuccino I ordered
There is no evidence to suggest proshippers are mentally unhealthy OR predators; just shut up already.
" The fact anyone could find a fictional child like a shota or loli sexually appealing is sick to think about because they’re based on REAL children."
They never are based on real children.
"If you REALLY want to please keep it to yourself "
No. :D
"Whichever you are please just get help"
For what? You'll only be laughed at and sent home!
I left a comment earlier but i was running a high fever which usually impacts my ability to view things critically, soo im leaving another when im not overheating.
1, (7:55) I can agree with the first bit, kids being on the internet and finding media they probably shouldnt be consuming usually isnt the fault of the creator, however i do disagree with the last part. If a proshipper is posting art, they are partially responsible for making sure kids arent consuming stuff like that, i get it content warnings dont always get kids to leave but if they see someone interacting with their content who is a kid then i do believe they can take two seconds to block them. Its not much of a hassle on them, as im not saying they should go through all the people consuming their work, but that if they are aware someones a minor they should take proper action to get them away from said content.
2, (9:40) Again i can agree with this at first, really anything can trigger people, and I do agree that if there is a warning then its now the person being triggered’s fault. This is assuming they put warnings on said media in general, any time ive ever seen a proship theres never any sort of warning or attempt to be like hey this might be triggering, plus that would require the proshipper in question to acknowledge that the ship is containing something that is wrong in the eyes of most people, and again everytime i see any sort of proshipper content they dont see it that way, the see it as a cute pairing of characters they like.
3, (11:00) I agree here aswell, unless the consumer is already a p3d0 or something (or in the case of the slenderman stabbing one of the girls was schizophrenic if i remember correctly, dont quote me on that though its been a hot second sense i last looked into that case).
4, (16:55) Im gonna be honest i dont think anyone is moronic enough to say this (the quote on screen) and if they did, i disagree aswell, however while both are allowed to exist in fiction neither should be portrayed as something other than a disgusting crime, shipping a r4p3 victim with their abuser is absolutely disgusting, id say the same as shipping a murderer with their victim. Also while i do think r4p3 is so much worse than murder (im not going to explain why as thats not the subject of discussion as of now), they are both terrible and should be treated accordingly. (17:50) Plus everyone is arguing opinions here, some people dont think r4p3 is wrong at all but that doesnt change the fact that to the majority of people can agree its gross. Though i do agree with the murder is not an accident bit, manslaughter is, but murder isnt. (though murder doesnt have to be premeditated thats why theres second and first degree murder.
My phone started having a stroke typing that so heres the rest.
5, (19:15) rq before i start this i know who your referring to with the onesided screaming match and that seriously sucks, im sorry that happened to you. However I think this argument is gross actually, im pretty sure you agree with me on this that laws dont always align with ones morals. Even if loli is or isnt illegal that doesnt change the fact its literally CP with more steps, the legality in this case shouldnt matter because if we are arguing morals here, as addressed before, morals ≠ laws. Also (24:45) whos to say this wont make predators act on actual children, I know it was talked about earlier that stuff like this doesnt make someone a p3d0, but if someone already is one, why would they stop at looking at drawings containing underage people (which i know the whole loli argument is aw its not CP if they are 3000 years old, they just look young but thats bull), hell you even brought up an example within your own video, someone who consumed lolicon and still went on to communicate with minors in an inappropriate fashion.
6, (25:10) Not much to say on this one, i can agree with most of what you say here. Though i will say that fiction does impact reality, especially if the consumers are young. An artist named Rouge made multiple sanscest (i dont really care about selfcest as much its weird to me but eh, bringing this up to not be like ewww selfcest bad, the art is bad for other reasons) comics with minors flirting with or saying they were gonna get married to adults (and the adult not telling them thats wrong), and r4p3 victim forgiving their abuser after they try to off themself. (Streamline workshop made a video about them that goes muchh deeper into it than I am so id recommend watching that). Im bringing them up because if you see how their fanbase reacts and talks about this kind of stuff they are clearly very young and dont see things like this as an issue. Like when a 13(?) year old character flirts with and tries to get with an adult (to which she doesnt tell him off), they are upset because its getting in the way of another ship.
im not done yet but im hungry so ima go have some breakfast n continue
ok
7, (28:45) I think romanticism is fine, making something look better than it is can be a good use for story telling, like showing someone in all pastels and pinks but also being obviously in pain or injured, it can be used as a good way to show the characters internal feelings while also showing how that affects them. Aside from that, I think romanticization here is being used in two different ways, and I think the way that its generally used by antis is similar to promoting something. While these two things arent the same, they are a similar concept so i cant blame people for using them interchangeably. (Also you did cover that somewhat so i wont go on too much about it). On the fetish thing, I do agree its none of anyones business as to what someone is into as long as it stays within fiction, it might be weird but im not here to kink shame.
Im not gonna go over the antis and racism bit because i do agree that it is there.
To end this off I do believe people should have the right to express what they want to, just that its done in an appropriate way that doesnt promote said thing to others. I dont think people should be harassed for what they create at all, its childish to do so, if i see it I block and move on.
This is entirely my opinion however so feel free to disagree with me on things.
@@CapiKarksactually in a lot of places loli is illegal!
I really hated the title when I saw this in my recommendations. As someone who was sexually assaulted at a young age by another child and groømed by someone else, I don’t blame that child much since they were also extremely young. I blame others who spread this mindset of yours and others that encourage it. Do you understand the fragile mentality of kids??
No kid will simply search for N$FW content or pro shipping content, they are almost guaranteed to stumble on it by themselves by accident. Often because the pro shippers use characters from fandoms that contain a lot of children. Children will not understand the difference between right and wrong especially if the content is being promoted by the content creators.
Children who watch this form of media are often unknowingly normalizing it, it is the same with N$FW, because many content creators make extremely suggestive content, extremely young viewers have already normalized sexualizing just about everything. It is really sad.
Because this is so normalized for them, it puts them in danger. Those kids would not understand if they were being groømed because it is simply normal for them.
I understand a lot of people have their own ways of coping, but using pro shipping as a form of healing is simply not okay. Because this method is harmful to the children who watched this content.
im not gonna lie i was actually kinda nervous coming into this but i agree on most of what you said here
i think portraying darker themes in media is incredibly important, just that its treated delicately as to not just outwrite tell the consumer that said thing is awesome and they should go do it in real life (which i know is incredibly rare like you brought up in the Slenderman stabbing case).
also when it comes to romanticizing topics such as these i do think that while it is similar to promoting, they are not the same thing. I personally have drawn artwork that would most likely be considered the romanticization of a somewhat toxic relationship, but im in no way trying to promote the situation.
this might notta made any sense im getting sick rn and my brain only works like half way
nonetheless good vid
Hey so, um I don’t mean to be mean and I’m sorry that people are but I do have a grip with one of your arguments (well many but those are mostly based on my own personal experience and opinion).
17:53 you said that it doesn’t count as murder if it’s accidental or justified but that’s just not true. I’m sure you’re talking in a definition sense, but in a legal sense…that’s like not true. Murder can be accidental and it would be called 3rd degree murder but it depends if the court thinks it should count.
The justifiable one is a little bit more tricky because what’s justified depends on person to person. I personally think that if a victim kills their abuser it’s justified but some people don’t think that. Especially in legal situations, because if a victim say, kills their abuser one random day on purpose, it would count as murder but if they kill them while being attacked, it would be considered self defense.
Because we’re talking about a fictional sense as well, stories are meant to have themes and a lot of time justice and revenge are topics talked about in media a lot. It’s one of my personal favorite things to explore in stories, but a lot of times what happens is the question “Do you think what happened was justified/was justice served?” Is asked. People have different meanings of justice and what it means to them, might make or break a story/piece or media.
Again, I hope I wasn’t rude. Much love and I’m sorry you’re getting so many corny, mean, and hateful comments. Even if I don’t agree with you, I don’t think what a lot of people are saying to you is okay
I do have a question.
Could u maybe try getting into phighting?
My bad if this is annoying u
All I can say is. As someone who’s been through trauma, I don’t think proshipping is a healthy response. ☹️
and therapists disagree. Now what?
@@SukiNoKoe therapists say it’s good to explore those topics through media, not to romanticize and glorify them
@@kittencomicslol you can do whatever you want with fiction lol
@@SukiNoKoe just because therapists say it’s okay doesn’t mean it’s good, I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about therapists.
@@SukiNoKoethat doesn’t mean you should post it online
17:53 murder can ABSOLUTELY be justifiable. one of the most famous examples being parents who seek out revenge for individuals who molested their children, a couple notable people being gary plauche and marianne bachmeier. have you looked at the average time spent in prison for sex offenders? rarely do they ever get life in prison, and when they ARE released, it is extremely common for them to reoffend. whether or not you agree with death as a punishment, you need to acknowledge that these cases are not at ALL comparable to rape, a crime which can never be justified.
@@dpkave notice how she hasn't responded? She knows she's pissed on her own grave atp
"I just want to protect children!" Antis cry out as they also dox and send threats to minors.
99% of proshippers are teenagers
@user-xy6rq4sz6u I mean, a lot of fandomites are teenagers so. Shrugs I believe it lmao.
the majority of them LITERALLY TELL PROSHIPPERS TO RELIVE THEIR TRAUMA. like what
@@manmadecreation I know. I've been told that it was good I was abused in the past because I shipped myself with an abusive character.
yes, and then they go looking for actuall csam to sent proshitters cuz "krarma" ig.
i don’t personally agree with proship/comship/darkship (you still shouldn’t harrass others though) because people could be manipulated into having a mindset which thinks that it’s ok irl especially kids but i don’t harrass people which gives them attention (also yea not hating just sharing my opinion)
hey so like u talk about proshipping being compared to murd3r in media but like…..one is glorified and romanized and one is not so what r u on about 😭
totally wrong; people love fictional serial killers.
19:15 hello I am not a pro shipper and I am not an anti cause such anyways you actively say that murder has to be pre-planned a lot of murder cases have been not pre-planned that's why first-degree homicide second degree and manslaughter these are all cauterized under the umbrella of murder but then you say it's subjective if murder and rape is worse there is a justifiable reason to kill somebody you've been abused for years so you plan to kill them it's probably not the best way to get out of that toxic situation but it still happens but when you pre-plan or choose to rape somebody there is never a justifiable reason to do that (please do not harass me for responding like this read this and then rebuttal)
Honestly this video is really well worded, as someone who doesn't really call themselves a pro or antishipper I do still agree with your points, keep it up MG ^_^
(mainly commenting to show my support and engagement, I dunno how to actually word my thoughts)
Omg Early to a mg post, so slay
Uhh ex-proshipper here (I got therapy and a reality check), and while you do make a few good points in your video, proshipping isn’t ‘good’. Sure it’s cathartic but I got a lot of death threats and was threatened to get doxxed.
Plus it didn’t help that I got groomed again because a 20 year old saw my videos and thought I was an easy target. Good times.
Me getting therapy for….. drawing fake characters doing fake situations
@@CatInTheBox20133I’m sorry you got groomed, but it’s not the proship content that got you groomed, it was the fact that an adult decided to pray on you.
I’m sorry you got death threats also, but that doesn’t mean that proshipping is necessarily bad, that just means that some people in the community were treating you like shit. Most proshippers believe that harassing people over their beliefs on fiction is shitty and not okay.
@@fleshcomputersme when I do a fake situation
I think people more think that fictional incest abuse paedophilia ect will make the person think real cases of grooming or abuse aren't that bad you even mentioned in a video that creepypasters made you think real life murders weren't that bad.
People arnt that stupid though. I ship whatever I want, yet those cases in real life make me barf. It’s disgusting. But if it’s fictional media it’s not hurting anyone so I don’t really care personally
@alien9cheeseits46 I was more properly addressing the actual belief since the idea that proships will make people be abusive felt a little dishonest and exaggerating the argument against proships in my opion
Which video did she say that again?
@@funfourstudios pretty sure in her twisted doctor video
@@trixxart777 The whole video I think is presenting a very dishonest view of proshippers and antis. MG is setting up strawmans with dumb beliefs like "proshipping makes people think pedophilia is ok" and "people only think loli is bad because it's illegal" to knock them down easily
Bruh there are so many people in this comment section calling everyone else in the comment section pedophiles and incest lovers it's insane. It's very obvious they saw the title and didn't bother watching the video.
Personally, for a little bit I myself kinda panicked a little when I first saw the title, but I bothered to watch it, and I can say you have very good points/takes on proshippers and antis.
some people commenting really havent watched the video and it shows,, i basically agree with all of your points, yeah! antis have caused me genuine paranoia and nightmares and i really think we should be able to treat topic like these with nuance instead of condemning it because you don't personally like it. thanks for making this video honestly, it's nice to see a content creator i look up to that has the common sense to think about topics instead of judging so quickly. awesome video :]
Yo!!! new mushroom girl commentary !!!
While I do agree in freedom of expression I also belive if someone complains about proshippers they are totally in their right to do that no matter if their reasons are are flawed freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequences. And a lot of people don't see that freedom of expression goes both ways and that just because someone critiques proshippers doesn't mean they are harassing you obviously if they are genuine harassing you or trying to dox you that isn't okay but just having a different opion is fine.
Fr. Freedom of speech goes both ways
THIS.
Fetishising inmoral things real life or not is gross. I honestly don't get how people don't see a problem with that?? Also btw most proshipers i see are minors so uh..
People don’t see a problem with portraying taboo themes in a sexual manner because at the end of the day, it’s fiction. And comparing real life harm caused by things like pedophilia and abuse with fictional characters who do not exist is honestly almost disrespectful?
@@xxmushroom.girlxxit may be fictional but it is still wrong to even like the idea of the things proshipers support.
@@catsboxesyt LEGIT
@@catsboxesyt well I disagree.
@@xxmushroom.girlxxhow could you possibly agree with child x adult student x teacher abused x abuser and other nasty things like that?? Supporting things like that, even in fiction, is wrong. If you can't see that then PLEASE get professional help.
you can tell the difference between fiction and reality, you support bi lesbians, and your art is great, CAN WE BE FRIENDS PLEASE
What is the bi lesbian discourse about? Is it just bi women in relationships with other women?
Im an anti, these subjects in proships/fics do not make me uncomfortable or triggered. I can consume media like that and not be bothered, however...
You can write and create media with r@pe, 1ncesr, pdfilia, abuse and anything else mentioned. However that's a big difference when you write it to tell a story and discuss those topics and when you write it because you get off from it.
If you found fictional pdfillia attractive. You are a pdf file. It's as simple as that. No real children are being harmed, yes. But you are indulging in the paraphillia regardless. This applies to all 'taboo' topics you mentioned.
Also it's been proving that indulging in a paraphillia, leads you to becoming more extreme in the paraphillia you are into and can also lead to you developing more.
PDF files who consume images of CSA will eventually go on to abuse children in real life, and won't just consume pictures of it. Or someone who's a zoo may lead onto them being a necro. It's happened many times and is documented and proven by psychologists.
I have no doubt someone who consumes a lot of proship content becuase they find it hot, could eventually go on to do more extreme things other than read taboo fanfiction.
The reason there is no individual studies into proshippers is becuase it's niche and fairly knew to the Internet. However there's countless studies onto paraphillias and what happens to people who don't sort their shit out and get help for them. I suggest you do the same.
I've seen plenty of proships be outed for grooming young people online. Probably becuase fiction wasn't enough for them.
And also using the excuse of a proshipper being a victim and using proship content to vent is a poor excuse. 'Lolita' is a book written by a victim of CSA. Its got many upsetting topics in it however its not written for gratification. Its to tell a story, this is how taboo fiction should be used for venting. Writing it for gratification is going to lead to worsening your paraphillia, the same way people who may have been CSA victims can and have gone onto become abusers themselves. Its a cycle, being proship from abuse will lead to the same cycle.
Crimes committed based on fictional media is becuase of already existing mental health problems. The same way proshippers find paraphillias attractive and paraphillias are litteraly mental illnesses. They are not the same.
You also make so many dumb points to justify your arguments, I can't be asked to debunk them. This video is mind numbing. The many instances of abuse being a cycle and people who may only be into one thing being into more, or people needing more than just images of certain acts going on to actually commit those acts, should be enough for you to realise its wrong. If you can ignore that, then you're beyond help ig.
Pedophiles are defined as "someone attracted to human children five years younger than their own age.
So no, liking a twisted ship with made up characters does not make you a pedophile.
@SukiNoKoe yeah well even in court, and the law will say that anyone under the age of (usually) states anyone attracted to people younger than 16 is a pedophile. If not, then they are predatory.
Don't try and be pedantic over terms like that. If you saw a real case of someone who's 30 doing stuff with a 14 year old, you'd call them a pdf file. Be real.
And yes, you are one if you like 'twisted ships' if you are getting off from reading about fictional c/p. You are one. There is no other reason for it. You are attracted to the concept and thought of a minor being abused in that way (just like a p3d0)
@SukiNoKoe don't be pedantic. If an irl 30 year old tried to get it on with a 14 year old. You and everyone else on earth who isn't a p3d0 would say that the 30 year old is a p3d0. When you say someone 'isn't actually a p3d0' because the child isn't under 5, then it makes it sound like you're REALLY trying hard to justify being predatory to minors. I'm just saying.
And yes. You are getting off to fictional minors in predatory situations. You know... like how p3d0s do? Does cp suddenly become okay if it's AI generated, fake kids. No, it doesn't. Anyone creating or viewing it would be a predator. Just because it's words on a page or done in an anime artstyle doesn't change the fact that you are getting 0ff to kids. Therefore, a p3d0.
@SukiNoKoe oh don't be padantic. If an irl 30 year old was dating a 14 year old you'd call them a PDF (unless you're one yourself)
Why should it be any different when someone is attracted to N5FW depictions of fictional minors. It's still an attraction to minors regardless of whether they're real or not.
@@JC_Hyperi0n28 LOL it's spelled "pedantic".🙄
"You'd care about this thing if it was real!"
NO SH!T, SHERLOCK. But it's not. So I dgaf. Lol There's no reason you should either; it's MADE-UP. Fictional stories and real life are two different things! That's why I love horror anime but seeing real blood makes me pass out!! TWO. DIFFERENT. THINGS.🤦♀️This is so damn stupid lmao
ALL of y'all are unhealthily obsessed with FICTIONAL worlds and characters and internet drama and need to familiarize yourself with the actual world billions of people from all sorts of backgrounds live in
How does any of this prove why pro shipping is actually good
If anything its just doubling down repeatedly. So many people are debunking her arguments and if they are good enough she deletes them. I think I've had two of my comments deleted under the pinned comment. And others have taken notice too.
@@skyruinsSHE DELETED MINE, that or RUclips chucked it into oblivion
my problem with the whole proshipper/anti shit is that its a false dichotomy as if you can only be one or the other when the people who actively identify as either are usually brainlets imo. on one hand self identified "anti's" are usually puritans who faint at seeing a ship that's not 100% coffee shop au healthy, but self identified proshippers that i've seen at least often don't actually live by their own beliefs of "no harrassment" and don't actually engage with dark subjects in media in a particularly "deep" or analytical fashion (aka they just like Weird with a capital W porn that would be illegal if it wasn't drawn). ive literally seen proshippers namesearch (as in, looking up posts people make about proshipping in general) on twitter to harrass someone expressing they don't like them as a community On their Own Account without @-ing or replying to anyone. or just harrass someone for making a video on proshipping that actually symapthises with them but expresses disagreement with certain aspects of the community (while they were also being harrassed by antis bcs antis assumed they were proship. LMAO)
like yes i agree with the "thesis" of "don't harass people for shipping fucked up stuff", but the thing is, anyone who i see actively identify as a proshipper like, isn't just that. they actively do ship pedophilic stuff etc. and not even in a "wow i am really interested in this dark subject matter and going into the psychology of victims" like again its usually just porn. and like you have to recognise that making public posts and making your identity all about about how hot pedophilic/abusive/incestous (fictional) relationships are is something that most Normal People In Real Life would find AT BEST weird, at worst Suspect. people are allowed to think you are Weird for this. unless you think that pedophilic/abusive relationships should be destigmatized. you have to be aware that fangirl squeeing about such topics will get you weird looks. and its people's freedom of speech to express that on their own accounts to their own audience.
i also just have a distaste for the community in general because it, from what ive seen, suffers from something i like to call Pornbrain. as in you cant engage with media without finding something to get your rocks off to it and making your entire engagement with it surrounding that. ive seen proshippers squee about how a father-daughter relationship in media is "baiting them" and how that media is totally intending for that relationship to be "proship bait" or whatever. reduction of all media into normal shipping is already lame enough but now you have people who form their whole identity surrounding how "fucked up" something they ship can get without actually engaging with it in an especially interesting manner. it makes it worse bcs a lot of ppl who "proship" i feel like overestimate how deep their engagement with the topics actually are lol.
i also disagree with the notion there is no danger with forming communities entirely focused on shipping pedophilia/incest/abuse (and, often romanticising, as again, most people ive seen embrace the label don't actually engage with the subjects especially deeply), because first of all humans are very influenced by our surroundings because we are Social animals. and constant reinforcement of the attractiveness of things like pedophilia/incest/abuse - even if fictional - can likely have an influence - at the very least in desensitizing/destigmatizing it to you. like if you're a person who surrounds yourself with friends who constantly "joke" about being racist, they never say they're racist for real but their whole identity is formed around making racist jokes and saying racial slurs, is anyone going to pretend as if that won't at least have some influence on you? like the people who say that "im actually coping with my trauma by proshipping and my therapist says its good" i feel are leaving out a lot to their alledged therapist, because while i think that coping through engaging with dark subject matter in art/writing CAN work in some instances, i doubt that these therapists are being told that these people are ALSO posting these things in public communities that talk about the things that happened to them as if they're "hot" and explicit fantasies about offending/wanting to offend.
all in all. do i think shipping pedophilia/incest/abuse/whatever should be illegal? no. do i think people should actively harrass people who do it? no. do i think people are entitled to think you are weird for doing it and should be able to self regulate their own communities by expressing that they think you're weird? Yes. generally i think its lame to form your whole identity around how fucked up the things you ship are OR how much you hate people who ship things you get squicked by. and no again i know the whole "definition" of proship is "ship and let ship" but Again im going off of the people i see actively identify as proshippers. and 90% of the time it includes actually shipping the weird shit urself.
its like people who call themselves "centrists". like yes definitionally being a political centrist is like your political beliefs ending up not leaning especially right or left. but most people online who call themselves that tend to actually be right leaning, they just don't like admitting to it/find it politically expedient. and like sure there are Real Actual Centrists who are like the definition claims. but ill still be wary of anyone online who calls themselves that because 90% of the time its actually just a right winger. just as how i'll automatically raise an eyebrow at anyone who makes "proshipping" a big part of their online identity.
This is the most based comment on the whole comment section fr, i agree so hard, and its worst that proshippers make their ships around communities for children content, and then they act flabbergasted by it, again, im not an antishipper but its just so weird and icky how proshippers romantize this stuff
I think my comment got deleted or hidden 😭
I'm not one to judge titles so I'll watch the video. Even though I'll never agree with these kinds of people. I genuinely believe these people cause harm a lil bit with normalizing things like ships with really bad age gaps and other things.
While I'm someone who believes you can draw whatever you want (as long as you aren't drawing something problematic or glorifying stuff) art shouldn't be used to push immortal things like my example above.
I do have a question regarding the intro since it has me confused.
In your sav video you said you weren't a proshipper nor a anti and i was curious since this video is out is your opinion still the same??/gen
I have since changed my views a bit, and I now identify as profic!
@@xxmushroom.girlxx
Thank you for the clarification 👍🏾
Art isn't used "to push immoral things"; it is used to entertain.
I'm personally not a anti nor a problematic person, i don't really have a opinion about your video, however i gotta point out that you're contradictive and your video is hard to understand.
(Tw)
Sorry this isn't something i would agree with respectfully , you can't guarantee that ALL proshippers are gonna react the same way, fiction could affect reality if they were soo desperate, a lot of people off themselves before because of fiction including games and shows, and on the other side, victims are gonna get sooo triggered, imagine you're a victim of SA by your parent and you see someone shipping a kid with their own biological father,I'm aware that proshipping isn't always about liking kids and that proshipper≠pedos, but it's still a way to satisfy pedos intentions, romanticizing toxic relationships between two adults is still iffy but at least not that problematic, but everything else is a no
THIS
Did you watch the video?? Because it covers all the bases you just said, and yes of course its not guaranteed that all proshippers will react the same but one bad apple doesnt mean theyre all horrible, hence also said in the video
@@nyawaineko Bad apples always ruin every community
@@nyawaineko I wanted to point out why would me and anyone who doesn't agree with this video won't remove proshippers from their dni, thanks for your opinion, I'll delete my comment if my pov changed, but till now I never met an innocent proshipper if that even exists, it would be understandable for someone who is trying to cope, but most proshippers didn't really experience what they are shipping causing victims to feel misunderstood and even more traumatized for getting their trauma romanticized
@@FifiMama-ij5ch I honestly dont even ship any darkships, i just dont care what people ship
Proshippers actually aren't good, but kids might do it because of childhood trauma. It's still not good to do it tho and they should find a way to get out of that proshipper habit (before a watched the video)
(Child Sexual Assault victim here so I'm talking from my own standpoint when it comes to these, being called a pedophile within the states has to be 16 and above it differs between cases of child on child assault )
No lie I agree with just a little bit of this at the end of the day I'm not a pro shipper I just can't get with it I love dark themes yes and I personally don't believe minor should be a part of the community especially with the topics and subjects that are mentioned within it's in a community as a whole that just looks like a potential chance of like grooming and being taken advantage of instill I personally don't believe minors should technically be on the internet but you can't really stop that.
This is one tad bit that I do hate that Pro shippers say fiction doesn't affect reality when multiple cases fiction has I think that shouldn't be used in an argument in the slightest
I can give multiple cases where fiction has affected reality
1. Lolita ( started wave in the 2000s sexualization Middle School the high school girls)which was already there made it more prevalent
FIVE of fiction affecting reality
2. Jaws( caused a worldwide Panic of sharks which also ended up making certain species of sharks endangered fun fact the Creator did regret making that movie because of it and now he protects sharks)
3.slenderman (the case of the may 31 2014 stabbing in the state of Wisconsin two 12 year old girls ended Loring and stabbing their friend 19 times)
4.scream( in September 22 2006 two teen boys mimicking what they seen in the horror classic movie Scream stalked and filmed stoddart before stabbing her to death)
5.Loli/shota ( has been a problem for Japanese women for a long time and young boys and has been linked to the increase of sexual assault which is something they're still dealing with and fighting against)"best way i can sum it up"
The same with underage I believe as much as I hate it I do believe people that consume a certain type of content bar within that paraphilia including people that consume lollicon content I believe they have a pedophilic feeling in nature
The same with slasher and True Crime investigators though it may sound hypocritical of me because not everyone is a violent person when it comes to these genres but anything that touches under age sexual content is not I believe strongly that there is a paraphilia involved with that situation the same could be said for people that read/draw zoophilic content.
Blood and gore can't be put in the same category because they're different form the sexual or paraphilia content.
Unless it's specifically snuff (which can age demographic in it) which is a mixture of graphic violence and sexual paraphilia , SA, CSA, torture, murder, Necro acts done apon a victim.
It's okay to like and explore dark things cuz naturally as human beings we have morbid curiosity but we also have to accept the fact that fiction does affect reality especially with someone that can't tell the difference or someone that consumes a media for so long that it warps your perception of reality which time and time again has been shown
The more you consume a certain amount of media the more it consumes you even though this is talking about ships this can also be talked about in political movements such as the alt-right pipeline.
Your opinions are valid but they're kind of flawed at the same time I'm not a anti-pro I can be considered a profic.
EDIT: THIS IS AN OLD COMMENT. I didn’t look at the situation more clearly at the time. (7/21/2024)
I feel like some antishippers use proshipping as an excuse to feel superior to others just because of their favorite ship not being a proship, which fun fact: makes me hate that “non-proship” ship even more
- Sincerely, someone who used to be a shipper, but not anymore due to the relentless toxicity of shippers and the many shipping wars that have existed since the dawn of time
Or at the very least not a shipper of any ships that aren’t my ocs :)
people who don’t ship p3d0s and little kids are above people who do that, actually
They are cut from the same cloth my friend
Antis and proshippers do the exact same things. Neither side is better than the other
@@spunchflopbadpants Yeah that is true. Tbh I didn’t look at the situation more clearly, so I’ll say this:
Back when I made that comment I thought I saw more antishippers treating their ships as better because it’s ‘not immoral or problematic’
But now I know that both communities (non-darkshippers (idk if there’s another word for it but I know it’s not antishipper) and darkshippers, as both these communities would be the ones shipping either non-taboo or taboo ships) have their levels of entitlement over ships, just with different reasons as to why.
CSA victim here! I don't plan on commenting on this video, but since a lot of people are bashing this video with no proper criticism and no proper agree and disagree. Just a disclaimer, I'm not a proshipper, I'm not into the problematic stuff, especially in mainstream media where it was handled poorly.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking a piece of dark fiction. But a lot of antis don't use the block button, instead harassing artists on social media, even if they're not a proshipper nor glamorizing it. Some of them are even EXPOSED for being creeps themselves, look at the creator of Mighty Magic Swords. He denied a struggling artist because they draw weird porn he doesn't like and look who processes ACTUAL CP. This proves that a lot of anti are performative and have skeletons in their closets. If an anti is virtue signaling about proshipping, chances are they're worse than their counterparts
"dark fiction" is NOT about glorifying sensitive subjects, hope this helps!😊
@@JXTIUON it can be though?
@@SukiNoKoe and it will get rightfully shamed, hope this helps!
@@JXTIUON by whiny sensitive children with nothing better to do, sure xD who cares.
@@SukiNoKoe please shut up you're genuinely so disgusting if you think glorifying sensitive snd disgusting topics is okay 💀 just bc you describe normal people with normal hobbies as "whiny" and "sensitive" doesn't make you right LOL
I have a lot to say about the fujoshi and fudanshi topic as I am an anime fan and had it exposed to me for a long time
But for now, all I can say is, not all fujoshis are cis straight women, and not all fudanshis are gay men
And also, some fujoshis/fudanshis are pretty chill
ZAMN lol I just realized it's a new video, I was like "huh I don't think I've seen this one before"
16:35 this point you made might actually be dumb. if you take a show like south park or family guy. those shows know they are about to make a joke about touchy/dark subjects. but they make it laughable and talk about the perspective from both sides to make it funny for both parties. thoes shows use this thing called dark humor
by the way i can’t believe you pulled out oxford dictionary for the definition of murder then say accidental murder doesn’t exist when it 100% it’s called involuntary manslaughter
I'm so confused, i watch RUclips so i can understand What's happening in the world but i feel like i should watc the lego movie on loop instead of RUclips. I don't understand this video or any of the comments
W movie taste
29:52 maybe I just don’t understand this but romanization (excuse me if I spelled that wrong) is when you think of something as romantic in a way normalizing it by no way does this correlate are with non realistic art styles maybe I just have the wrong definition of it but I got it off of one of her sources, could someone tell. E what she meant because I really don’t understand
Love how the angry anti crowd in the comments clearly didn't watch the video lmao. You literally did such a great job explaining your opinion that in order for them to disagree and villainize you and proshipping they had to shove their fingers in their ears and scream "i cant hear youuu!!1!!!1!"
I think proshipping is weird but man most of these comments are so fucking CORNY
mushroom… I’ll watch it but.. im scared….. im scared gurl…
Good luck soldier 🫡
Can somebody break this down into three words or five please
Because I cannot understand all this yapping
She supports proshippers, enough for you?
Basically just "Proshipping good! Helps people cope with trauma! Just ignore all the romantizing of toxic and unhealthy sexual topics! Antis are bad and want to censor everything! Let people ship who they want!" Pretty much what I'd imagine is the mindset of most people who call themselves proshippers
proshipping good antis evil!!
It's a very well researched video. You simply have a bad attention span or don't want to hear an argument that goes against your beliefs.
@@Emo_Killuathey barely touch actual concerns with this content, I don’t care if it’s fictional a community should not allow child predators to use this community as a hub
I feel like this comment will get taken down but its worth a shot.
17:58 The reason on why people have this view is because 🍇 cannot be justified in any shape or form compared to other crimes.
Imagine these hypothetical/real situations:
M*rder: I'll use this case that happened in Iran as an example. (This happened quite recently and I can link some articles if needed) A girl aged around 12-14 had k*lled her husband who was a grown adult that she was forced to marry that had even went as far as to 🍇ing her, I personally believe what she did was justifiable. (Before you say that it "doesn't count as m*rder" I suggest you look at how the news covered this and the labels they had used)
Robbery: Stealing hygenic or baby products that you cannot afford/get
Etc (No I am not justifying other crimes that actually can't be justified either)
🍇 meanwhile, what purpose does one do it for?? Just to get temporary pleasure which ruins the other persons life which they have to live for the rest of their life, same with other crimes that are related to it (had to word this a little carefully since it could get taken down)
People need to watch the whole video before commenting
To be fucking for real as someone who developed trauma from grooming and is really scared of incest ecc are gross okay when I find them unwanted in my feed I get really scared and feel gross
Im so sorry you went through that man that's fucking horrible. Hope you doing better.
@@BlackDragonFlame32 thanks man it’s tought and these people sure make it worse ❤️🩹
@@Cocodriletears00Don't let them get to you gang, it's only gonna get better from here❤
@@BlackDragonFlame32 you Made my day man I’m so grateful☹️❤️🩹
@@Cocodriletears00 Glad to hear that bro. ❤
Remember that Broly loves you.
average (sadly controversial) MG W
But also on the flipside as well, they’re completely silence on Yuri, which is very interesting that they’re totally fine with Yuri, but they draw the line to yaoi which I have my own problems with Yuri
THIS. No gay man I've met has had a problem with yaoi.
@@fluffysunshine_ Yuri itself has its own problem but however, because people treat all yuri is self as pure and innocent. You can’t actually argue with these people at all because they have a certain mindset because they’re two women. Women can’t do anything wrong.
Why are they against yaoi???? Being homosexual isn’t even a kink
Nobody gaf about yaoi or yuri we’re concerned with the posts that literally depict ABUSE and get likes off it. The most concerning part is that there are people out there who Draws abuse and then there are Others that enjoy that abusive content. Do you see the problem
@@appsawcee Nope. Abuse in fictional content isn't new; it is not illegal to write and never will be.
I have some words to say about legality doesn’t equal morality. While yes, it doesn’t equal morality, but laws are built on the premise of morality. So many people can stand up and say “murder is bad” and it be true both legally and morally. These laws were put in place to give people justice for morally abhorrent acts. Saying “l0l! Isn’t bad because it’s illegal” completely destroys the notion that it was made illegal BECAUSE liking children is morally incorrect. Romanticizing the idea of children having disgusting acts done to them is bad. Sexualizing a child is bad. I can’t believe this has to be broken down for you to understand.
I guess the thing that feels wrong is why someone would want to create such depictions. Why would somebody create p0rnographic material depicting children, if they aren’t attracted to it. /genq
Also they are providing content for people who are attracted to that stuff. I think there’s a difference between the things people create, and the people who consume that media. I did watch the video to see if there’s anything that could change my mind, and quite a few of your points are solid. I personally still disagree, but good work on the video anyways! I like seeing different perspectives on things.
The problem is not the existence of problematic things in media (like pedophilia), the problem is pro-shippers glorify it and enjoy seeing characters in those situations. Things like that need to be handled with care and not be used as fetish material.
Before you make any assumptions about me regarding my opinion on this, please understand that I am not coming from this from a malicious perspective like some other might have come from here.
What I wanna say is, since you seem to be a minor yourself (please correct me if that‘s not the case) this is raising red flags for me.
I was groomed as a minor by people into this content to believe things you are also arguing here to a certain extent. And because of that alone I just want you to know that if the people you surround yourself with are defending content including minors, real or not, ask yourself why they are. especially if they do it very passionately. Cause these people, usually adults that prey on kids like me back in the day and probably you as well if you are indeed a minor, they have a strategy to break you down into believing things they wanna do to children is ok. Or for you to be conpfortable doing things for them that you wouldn‘t otherwise. This is why I feel like this sort of defense is always a red flag cause it usually comes from people who watch this content to feed an addiction. One that won‘t go away if you keep feeding it. Even if they make up these claims that somehow the fictional thing prevents offending. Wich has neither been proven or denied. Since this argument exists because there has not yet been a study to know how much this content actually makes the issue worse.
However, with this content, defending it really only serves one group. That being pdf files. Because i don‘t see anyone disgusted by this content watching it. So really, what is the utility in defending it? A claim people make that it somehow stops offenders? One that cannot or has not ever been proven? So we‘re going off of anecdotal evidence here? I‘d say that is a weak argument. And especially a claim as that should have more of a scientific backing if it was true because that‘d be good if it could decrease offending. But the thing is, we don‘t have this evidence. In either direction. And there is good reason for it.
This is why I like to go back to the topic of dru*s cause in a way ppl that are into you know what are in a bit of a similar position. That being an addiction/drive towards u know what with kids. So think of it this way, when a sober person struggling with addictions tells you they cannot use non alc*holic beer or anything that tastes like said substance, cause it‘ll make em want the real stuff even more than before. What does that tell us? Well, it tells us that in fact, addictions usually make it so if you want to stop, you have to in many cases avoid the thing like the plague. Fallbacks happen but usually, substitutes especially ones that are close to the real thing only make it worse.
And u know what? We don‘t have studies on lo*i fans and them getting worse by consuming said content. But we do have a lot of evidence for what i said in regards to addiction.
So think about it. What is it if the thing that gives you a kick causes harm yet you can‘t stop wanting more of it? An addiction. And what helps an addiction? Fighting this urge and also learning effective ways to avoid it. Cause that works for people. Not substitutes that are almost the same thing. And not other substances either cause usually it only makes you want more of the stuff you crave. And that is a strong argument. Cause you can compare the 2.
Both cause harm to people if you endulge. Both make the person endulging‘s lives worse. And both are addictive and difficult to overcome.
So why would anyone argue in favor of content that feeds said need and creates hunger for it? Why would you be so eager to defend it? Who does defending it serve? Does it really serve the future victims? Or the perpetrators? Cause i doubt it serves either of them. Enabling a life ruining issue instead of encuraging better management and therapy wich actually helps. And letting minors, the most vulnerable in our society become nothing but lab rats for some assumed reality of this type of content being somehow good to prevent harm. Something that has never been proven.
One could argue that actual, real footage of u know what could also be seen as maybe a grey zone? If it was made already and the material is there. A dodgy person could argue that the fact that it is already there, that it could be used in a harmless manner. But the reason we don‘t argue this is because at the end of the day, if you start to open that can, you cause a trickle down effect. You open up and enable a market. Caude it never just ends at 1 video or picture. And so how can we call fictional content here not causing said issue but real content causing it? What makes the difference? Cause I don‘t think there is one. Other than maybe the fiction being safer to seek out. But less difficulty shouldn‘t be what we use to justify things. At the end of the day, you are enabling a damaging substance to be given to people who are addicted to it. People who need to learn to not depend on it for their sake, and also the victims sake.
So I do really not agree with this take. Cause usually the people that groom minors like me or probably you as well into defending this stuff are people that are already overstepping the „safe“ thing to groom us, real minors into being harmed. And that alone shows the flaw in this argument.
You might feel an intrinsic urge to disagree with me if you read it this far. You might even think this isn‘t a good argument. But i urge you to examine who made you advocate for their substance to be legal and not socially condemned? Who made you develop the arguments you make in your videos. Who benefits from them? And especially if my assumption is correct and you are a minor, what do you think these adults are doing trying to make you desensitized to content that se*ualizes you while also drilling into you that it‘s ok if they draw it instead of getting your pics? What happens if they start to „rp“ and say that isn‘t a problem cause it‘s fantasy? What barriers did they erode in you through that? What if they want you to send a „pose reference“ for their little u know what artworks and ask you to make it a n*de picture? And how much manipulation would it take for you to trust them enough to send it? Cause that is what they do. The people you are making excuses for. The people you are arguing their arguments for. They do this. And I know from experience. While they are the proof that their arguments hold no water. But you won‘t see it cause they have already made you what they want you to be. Easy prey.
So please for anything that is good, think about it and talk about it to others that aren‘t these kinds of people. Listen to the comment section here. At least the people trying to be cheritable. Listen to older people and their experiences being a child online and how that got them into bad situations. Do not just listen to the people arguing for this content to be legal. Cause if you do, you are in an echo chamber. And there is nothing leftist about being in an echo chamber of yes men. Be curious and open minded not only to people that agree with you. And question the people you agree with. That is what critical thought is for. It makes you learn things and solidify opinions. And it also shows you new perspectives that may change your view on things.
Cause at the end of the day we don‘t want to harm minors. We don‘t want to punish non offenders in therapy either. We want you to not be a megaphone for people that want to do harm and want to do it to the people i just mentioned. There‘s plenty of people groomed like i was. And also plenty who were harmed by adults as children. Listen to them when you want to do good. Not the adults that harmed or manipulated them.
Because trust me. The people like this Carmen person do not care about us, or you, or any other minor. They only care about silencing anyone who speaks out against their grooming strategy. You are nothing but a propaganda tool for them. And if they have all these „great opinions“ on this topic why do they need you to be their mouth piece for them? Why can‘t they do that themselves?
I‘ll tell you why. Cause just like my abuser, carmen and all the rest of them, the only thing they do care about is getting their fix. No matter how badly it ruins us. Or our lives. The trauma. The the hours of therapy we have to get for it. The trust issues. They never cared about any of that.
I understand your point when you say its OK to have bad themes in fiction but the issue with proshipping is that people often romanticize such topics and end up going on to condone or perform in such acts IRL due to their desensitization to the topic
While i do agree that very dark subjects can be used in media if it's for the sake of exploring something dark, that is not what proshipping is. Proshippers actively enjoy what they're shipping, it's never a case of "oh i just think it's interesting to explore as a topic" they literally encourage all the horrible shit they ship, or in other cases were groomed into liking it.
I literally know this because i had been groomed into minor proshipping before, with the whole pj's daycare comic shit. I always rooted for fresh to get with PJ but looking back it was a fucking disgusting pedophilic ship. I was even farmed for proshipper content when i was younger, because someone asked me to draw their ADULT oc with my TODDLER oc, and i thought it was just meant to be innocent. But no, they were a fucking proshipper, so they took advantage of me not knowing at the time. Stop trying to defend proshipping like it's not this gross no morals shit.
this was a bold move mg. stay safe, antis aren't kind at all
girl there's no audio
nvm my phone is broken
@@headfirst4hhalosLMAO
Mine too lmao
Fhfif pfp epic
@@headfirst4hhalos as someone who read all the comments under this video(as of right now) out of boredom this is the best one
I had a creature that ad conjoined organs that detect light to see color, movement, and shapes, they had sorta two eyes but at the same time it’s a singular eye. Your characters have the eyes of a speculative alien organ I created a year ago😭🙏
mg could you've not released this video like exactly 1 week earlier i literally vowed to quit shipping discourse this sunday and i don't wanna break that less than a week in 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
update: watched the video 😔, was good tho.
I think we should look at both sides of the conflict more often
We've grown to accept what people tell us more often instead of doing our own research and coming up with our own beliefs. Believe me, I'm not innocent, but the number of people in these comments that didn't watch this video made me scoff honestly.
Thank you for giving your side, I'll watch intently
the anti MGs gonna go crazy with this one 💀
I think that people should be able to do what they want. If they arnt hurting people then I don’t see a problem.
Fiction can affect reality dumbahh
@@waitholupI know it does, I didn’t say it didn’t
@@waitholupwhen you play a violent game or watch a violent movie do you suddenly get the urge to act out those violent things in real life?
@@waitholup most proshippers agree with you, congrats!
@@acheXface No because I’m a normal person that doesn’t ship minors with adults
There are antis trying to get this account spam reported now (and calling people "sex deviant freaks" and "subhuman" lmao), which is how I found out about it (I go through their tags to block them). I don't go here, but nice video.
This is gonna be such a show 🍿
YOURE PRO-FIC???? I ACTUALLY FROZE UP WHEN I HEARD THAT RAAHH I LOVE YOU MUSHROOM
i watched the entire video and .. i mostly don’t agree with any of these points! i’m sorry (as someone who tries to understand these points.) i understand where your coming from however i cannot personally agree with these sorry.
Me too, but it's fine to disagree. Just don't be a dick about it ig
Most antishippers mostly from what I have seen, come out of proshipers doing horrible things. I agree, some proshippers are okay... but some of them are usually.. kids that shouldn't get a pc or phone , or stuff(like you said) . I think both sides are wrong generally. Some silly guys I have seen being apart of the proshipper shit , are mostly very, very, very , toxic. And can't accept having others being haters.
Loli-con is not exactly illegal but... dude.. why do you like that stuff... its fucking weird, most stuff is is more morally to be bad, not exactly talking about the law
This debate is a bit stupid , and this war going on , leading into sexual harassment or bullying is ... strange ..
Also most your like arguments are like epic.. soooo... yeah (this will be deleted soon if stuff lmao, but I'm sorry if my English is bad chat)
(im also trying to understand yall.../pos)
im a real yapper chat
Lolicon actually IS illegal
@@kittencomicslol oh!! then.. damn.,
@@kittencomicslol The legality of lolicon varies from place to place. But MG is being very dishonest when they say that the only reason people don't like lolicon is because it's illegal
@@kittencomicslol No, it's totally not. You can buy it in many public stores lol
Pretty well articulated points! Nice vid, was pretty well made and I appreciate your boldness and respectfulness to cover this topic as you did
🔥🔥🔥 BRO IS SPITTING🔥🔥🔥WEAR A MASK IN THIS INSTANT 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
original or not i love this comment
woah a sane youtube commentary channel
Of course you're a proshipper . Your artstyle is proshippercoded
Thank you thank you
Sooo my pee is motherhecking purple now.
Honest I don’t care what people ship as long if it is not minor x adult,incest, or zoophiles. Now I personally find some things weird to ship but that’s just me and my opinion.
Ince$tipis relationships too?
@@Nik_is_awesome yeah I agree incest realation is gross I forgot to add that gonna edit it so say that
Those ships you described ARE pro ships
@@kittencomicslol no they aren’t did you watch the video?
@@mugwump_noodles666 the entire definition of proshipping is ‘a proshipper is one who supports romantic pairings that are deemed problematic’
To everyone who wants to comment 30 seconds after the video or comment as soon you click on the video, I strongly suggest you watch it before your ass starts to jump into conclusions. 😀😀😀
Let's face it, this video sucks and its badly executed, and also gives the air she likes proshipping.
I eat this up great vid😊
Aren't you "ex-proship 🥺🥺🥺" Lmao
Y'know what- this was pretty solid, I was iffy when I saw it but this was pretty solid ngl. This did help me on getting a better understanding of things and I genuinely find this pretty helpful, so I'll keep a more open mind abt it, still iffy but I will try and think of it this way and in a more positive mind set. 🎉
absouletely do not try to look at it in a positive light, there is no benefit to proshipping, more especially when publicly shown and discussed about, if someone proships in private, that's fine, but it gets a problem when it's normalized in media, it affects reality. Proshippers are just trying to sugarcoat their beliefs and try to make a convincing enough argument for those on the fence beforehand.
Oh- :^
Well now I'm confused ☹️ is it bad or okay???
@@Theo.waffles A lot of proshippers enable darkfic media, this one in particular is trying to make proshipping sound like a good thing or something that has no harm, when it does. I just replied bc it saddens me to think people can fall victim to their words and start to transfer to their side. bc a reminder is that proshipping is the excuse for people to engage in pedophiliac, incestual, illegal, and other morally wrong behaviors in media. Also a lot of this creator's points weren't cohesive and they used inaccurate quotes and examples of antis to further prove their biased point. I hope you can stray from these type of people trying to convince you it's okay and I apologize if I came off strong
No no, you're alright, I'm just a bit naive when it comes to things I don't know much abt other than the basic knowledge of things :b
People don’t understand that proshipping is basically ship and let ship no matter if the ship is cute or between a 9 year old or a 20 year old. Proshipping is basically “Oh, you ship a man in his 30s and his daughter who’s below the age of 15 AND find it cute? That’s fine.” Being a proshipper doesn’t inherently mean you ship shit like pedophilia, incest, or anything like that but you support the idea that it’s fine to do that. It isn’t strictly “problematic ship”.
However, proshipping is still harmful and problematic because it romanticizes or sexualizes problematic shit. “B-But it’s just fiction!” Fiction has affected and placed a HUGE impact on reality for a long time, probably before anyone in this comsec and the person who posted this video has been born (might I remind you of propaganda). If it affects people positively then it can affect people negatively. One of the most important reasons as to why proshipping is bad is because it takes real issues that victims have suffered for and turned into something romantic or cute. Putting two characters in a relationship who shouldn’t be in a relationship isn’t shipping but thinking they should and that it would be cute if they are is, is the problem. Another reason as to why it’s harmful is because of the impact the community puts onto younger people because of how it actively brings these ships to light and turn them into something positive and okey dokey and then ending up thinking that it’s alright if that type of content is portrayed in reality. An excuse I saw for this was that proshipping is mostly sexual, but it doesn’t have to be strictly sexual at all, so it isn’t really a “minors entering adult spaces” issue 😅 ESPECIALLY if a lot of proship content literally involves minors and are making adult content for media where the target audience is intended for children.
One more excuse i found is that apparently, the horror genre shouldn’t exists because it depicts unjustifiable crimes like murdering innocent people, manipulation, and shit like that. The entire point of those existing is that they’re meant to be perceived as negative and not positive or neutral, unlike proshipping. They’re meant to scare and shock you, not make you giggle and say “aww that’s so romantic!”
Onto another reason why proshipping is harmful is that people in the community make others believe that this (either comshipping or darkshipping) is actually a good coping mechanism for sexual trauma when it isn’t. It is completely okay to depict your trauma onto art but it’s not okay to romanticize or sexualize it for, wel, obvious reasons, no? Others might have said that “but this coping mechanism is the only one that works for me!” but are so miserable with their life that I believe that it’s like drugs where you only feel good and nothing actually improves😅. Something being a coping mechanism ≠ doesn’t mean it’s good, it can also be self-harm.
One more reason I’m gonna put here before I dip is that being a proshipper can also affect other people, which has a lot of reasons but let me put down two. Proshipping means you believe that any ship (whether or not it will be considered problematic) is fine and should be treated well, which means it should be fine if you ship real people, no? It should be fine if you ship real people with people they shouldn’t even be in a relationship with, like their parents or relatives, their abusers, their pets, etc… This might not be valid cause the entire point of proshipping is that “it’s just fiction” so let’s stay on that lane. More than 12 million people are affected by intimate partner violence, thousands of rape victims each year, 34,000 online grooming crimes were recorded in the last 6 years, these are crimes that ruin the lives of people and permanently affect the development of children IN REAL LIFE and I’m also one of the people who experienced some of these. How do you think other victims feel seeing their trauma depicted as romantic or cute? How do you think other victims feel seeing more people becoming into victims due to the influence of the proshipping community?
Proshippers love to use “fiction” as an excuse because it’s not actually affecting real people when it quite obviously does and it’s been used on propaganda, PSAs, and any media trying to spread awareness on a situation whether they’re doing it in a harmful or helpful way. Fiction will ALWAYS impact reality in some way.
how i feel about typing a whole yapfest that no one will probably gaf or read abt 😎😎😎😎
That's a bunch of crap. Proshipping does not cause harm; PREDATORS CAUSE HARM. And proshippers NEVER ship real people; that's gross!
"How do you think the victims feel?"
I think they need therapy if art online triggers them that badly lol also they should stop seeking it out.
"How do you think other victims feel seeing more people becoming into victims due to the influence of the proshipping community?"
Proshipping community discourages minors from even being there. There is no "influence."
@@SukiNoKoe Been waiting for someone like you. Anyways, it’s funny how you say that “proshippers never ship real people” when I provided a second example for that because of the fact that it ties to real people but I’m certain that you probably didn’t read it. Matter of fact, just by looking at your reply, it doesn’t even look like you read the entirety of the comment itself considering you cherry picked which ones to argue about and you had the audacity to call it a bunch of crap when you only went against like… 2-3 sentences, but I’ll budge.
“I think they need therapy if art online triggers them that badly”
This has like, a lot of flaws cause not everyone can afford therapy, not everyone can literally filter out everything cause of the lack of censorship, and not everyone can get into spaces that don’t involve adults making content of pedophilia, incest, etc. because somehow, they’re always there, the same way how a child can literally look up their favorite my little pony character and see porn of them in just a few scrolls away. The fact that you’re also dismissive of actual victims tells a lot because it’s completely valid to be upset over people depicting your trauma as romantic or cute. That’s exactly is what’s harmful (+ a shit ton of things i cited in my og comment) and yet you’re too ignorant to understand that because y’all wanna make excuse after excuse over the behavior that people actively call out due to how harmful it is.😭 I’ve already explained how it’s harmful in my original comment but you ignored allat. If you gon put the effort to be against me then at least put in the effort to be able to read and comprehend everything otherwise the shit you yap goes to waste.
“But the proshipping community discourages minors from being there!”
The creator of this video is literally a minor (16) and proshipping isn’t limited to sexual or 18+ content either because proshipping isn’t strictly about sexual shit, it’s basically having the mindset that you’re allowed to ship anything and accept any ship no matter how problematic it’s considered, that’s why a lot of them are filtered. Not to mention there’s a lot of proshippers making THAT kind of content about media that’s literally targeted towards children (example: bluey, sofia the first, tmnt, ben10, etc.) and y’all are complaining that minors keep finding and interacting abt the shit y’all create? Thinking abt it, why are a lot of y’all creating adult spaces in children’s spaces 😭😭??? Funny how you also denies that there’s no influence when this mindset has been influenced on younger people who are most likely new to interacting with fandom spaces and there’s been several cases where it has been used as an influence. “B-But it’s the predators fault! Not the content they used!!!” and the content is romanticizing or normalizing real issues depicted onto fiction. Also, people who influence that mindset don’t even have to be necessarily predators, they can be ignorant and stupid people as well who don’t realize how much fiction can actually impact reality. 😭
If you gon reply but disregard most of what I’ve said AGAIN I’m blocking your ass after I make another reply. I’m not gonna keep arguing if you’re gonna keep cherry picking what you can argue and what you cannot. 😭
@@SukiNoKoe So my other reply doesn’t appear on this account but it’s actually there so I suggest you read just either one of them to waste less time cause I thought it got deleted and that’s pretty embarrassing but anyways
It’s funny how you had the audacity to say my comment is just a bunch of crap and then cherry picking what to argue about and what not to argue about while completely ignoring everything else. Like I made a second example after the entire “shipping real people” cause of how proshippers use the entire “it’s just fiction” argument but you didn’t even read that, probably. You pointed out like… 2-3 sentences to be against about but I’ll budge.
Anyways, let’s start with the entire thing where “Proshipping isn’t harmful, but predators are!” cause I went against that argument in another reply thread where you also replied in and didn’t bother to read the other things the OP of that comment said, but I’ll repeat it anyways. Predators ARE harmful and can even use anything that isn’t even inherently harmful to groom or prey on others, especially children. However, if the content the predator is using is basically pieces of media that depict real issues as romantic, cute, or normal, then that content is considered as harmful. I’ve explained why proshipping is harmful in my og comment and I suggest you to try and read and comprehend the things I’ve said and pointed out cause I’m not gonna repeat that part again.
Moving on, the “Get therapy” argument is hilariously awful cause 1. not everyone can get therapy (and surely you aren’t even paying it but you’re heavily suggesting it to people you don’t know), 2. not everyone can filter out everything especially the bigger the fandom is where it’s literally everywhere (and also, the lack of censorship) and especially if they don’t know how to filter content like that (aka children + bonus points if they’re searching through google and certain images aren’t filtered) and 3. Not every victim has to be necessarily “triggered”. It’s perfectly fine to be upset seeing people depict their trauma as cute and romantic/sexual and see them make a bunch of excuses as well while a lot of them are also not even victims of those things (the entire coping excuse is also addressed in my og comment just incase). Funny how you’re blaming victims for feeling “triggered” over… People fetishizing trauma, oops. Speaking about number 2, why are a lot of y’all making adult spaces in spaces intended for kids? Like, why are some of y’all making nsfw accounts that revolve around content like… Idk, Bluey, ben10, tmnt, sofia the first, MY LITTLE PONY and then complain about children interacting and finding your content? 😭 I bet you gon excuse this as well with “it’s just art/fiction/pixels!!!” cause no real people are involved in the said content.
“But proshippers keep minors from being in the community!”
… The creator of the vid is like, 16, a large number of proshippers are minors, proshipping isn’t even inherently strictly 18+ because it’s a mindset about ship and let ship, and again, a lot of proshippers that create 18+ content with media intended for children… The fact that you’re denying influence is so funny cause look around and you’ll see a bunch of proshippers who are literally below the age of 18 on both twitter, discord, and tiktok, probably other socials idek which definitely means that there’s a LOT of influence whether intended or not.
If you gon cherry pick what to argue again I’m blocking you after sending a reply cause how r u gon reply like this when probably almost all of it has been addressed in my og comment 😭😭⁉️⁉️
@@decomp0s3dmierc0Hey so im on my other acc rn this is messed up WHY IS RUclips PRANKING ME 😢😢😢
Let's don't bully a teenager
Naw let's continue maybe she'll learn
@@whotfiseliiishe wont, infact it'll probably affect her mental you dipshit
bullying a minor isn't doing anything and if you think that i think your the one who needs help
let's
@@sullensores im not native english speaker, ty for correcting🙏🙏
@@spastonNEO NO I WASN'T CORRECTING YOU I AM SO SORRY IF IT CAME OFF THAT WAY GENUINELY YOU SPELLED IT FINE