I am really enjoying this series! So much better than the reality crap on TV now. There is actually a story and they talk in complete sentences. How refreshing.
There was a PR squadron of Spitfires based outside Paris in 1940. But they were used for high altitude photographs over the advancing German panzer Divisions not combat. But it doesn’t really matter that much. In 1940 there were few Spitfires on frontline service. The spitfire took longer to make than the Hurricane. So there were more Hurricane squadrons than Spitfire squadrons.
I found this accidentally. Gosh what breathtakingly-authentic dialogue and characterization, and those spitties! It gave me a little feel of what living on the 'ragged edge' must have been like. Jolly good post Mr Lewis. Thank you. Can we find any more? Australia
In this episode a blurry blob with wings took off and at some point a smaller blurry blob jumped out of it. Later some blobs glide down and land near a large white blob, which could be a house, not sure. It's a great series, I just wish it was a bit higher resolution.
Spitfires in 1940 had carburettors with floats controlling the flow of fuel into the intake manifold, unlike the Bf109s which had fuel injection. While they fixed it with pressurised throttle bodies later in the war, flying inverted for any length of time in 1940, or having extended periods of negative Gs would cause the float to rise, which cuts of the flow of fuel. Flash's spitfire flying upside-down would have stalled.
The RAF did shoot down rescue planes, but the only ones I know of that were operating at this time were Heinkel He-115 floatplanes, not Junkers Ju-52s. I'm surprised they found a Ju-52 flying; the last one I remember seeing on screen before this was in that preposterous Richard Burton/Clint Eastwood thriller Where Eagles Dare.
One of the better war series portraying the self-deprecating humour of fighter pilots against a backdrop of the run-up to the Battle of Britain. Memorable characters all, as one by one they join the KIA list until only two of the old lags remain, Fanny and Pip - there's irony for you. I was backing Chris Hart to survive, given his understanding of battle tactics gleaned from the Spanish Civil War, not forgetting the indestructible Moggy, a born killer if ever there was one. Just goes to show that in war you need a little more than training and experience ... in everyday language we would call it luck. That immeasurable, unquantifiable elixir that defies scientific reasoning - hell of a thing to rely on day after day, wouldn't you say!
Hart at 3:30: “ ...with an aeroplane put together with string and glue.” Shenanigans. That line, if it existed in the book, may have referred to the Hurricane (which is what Hornet squadron actually flew in France in 1940), but not the Spit: the first all metal and riveted monocoque fighter. Years ahead of its time.
@Marc van den Boogaard I’ve never read anywhere that the pilots who flew them thought the Hurricane was crap. However, they seem to all acknowledge that it really reached the end of the development road by the end of the first phase of the Battle for Malta; but it undeniably had a ‘sweet spot’ in the Battle of Britain - it could out turn a 109 and the Merlin gave it enough energy to stay in the fight against the german fighters (even though its top speed was something like 30MHP slower). It was easy for a new and average pilot to fly and was an excellent gun platform for those pilots. From what I’ve read all of these attributes were ‘known knowns’ back in 1940.
The book was hilarious. The series missed all the humour. The bit where moggy got dragged around in the bog by iron filings was hysterical. The series was rather depressing. It is a great book. I’ve read it 10 times
@@alisonhilll4317 this was made in the UK, not hollywood, but I take your point. I think they missed one of the essential points if the story. These guys. Prior to the real war, had a lot of fun and were just kids. Many if these actors looked like 30+ yrs old. Your avg RAF inductee was 19 or 20 at most. They were as immature as one would expect. Except for the Poles and Czechs who came over. Those that didn't die were robbed of their youth and innocence. But they also had a lot of laughs. They were high spirited, like a sports team. They didn't all just skulk around being mad at Moggy. The series missed that entirely. Having said that, I could watch spitfires taking off and landing all day.
I remember this series coming out in the late 80s...very mixed reception at the time and more recently...however, I think I'm right in saying that one of its technical advisers was a Group Captain Peter Matthews...and he actually flew with 1 Squadron in France.
One small thing that irritates me is how the cars in period films are all so clean and shiny. I can't keep my car clean and shiny for more than a few hours. With all the dirt roads back then, all cars would have some dust and dirt, especially around the wheels. I know the cars are collector's items, and the owners want them kept nice. But, it really hurts the realism.
The "Flash flying inverted" sub plot annoyed me way more. Early spitfires had regular carburettors that use float chambers to control fuel flow. Flying upside down would stall the engine in a matter of seconds, but yeah, my car is filthy after driving down a dirt driveway, much less driving on unpaved 1940s roads.
Funny, in Derek Robinson’s Book Fanny Barton was a New Zealander (Pretty sure on that one) the book was as are all his books very funny, A Good Clean Fight is excellent I just wish they made a series of that. Quite right also that Hurricanes were the equipment used in France , not enough hurricanes left flying to make this series.
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UK Vintage OVAL Racing thanks I have read several of Dereks Robinson’s books and they are all excellent. POC and a good clean fight would be my favourites
I remember this series being shown in the UK. According to Google it was between October & November 1988. Of course the RAF only used Hurricanes in France & most of the Spitfires used in the series were post 1940 marks.
Ok but what were they supposed to do? Go to Marks and Spencers and buy a squadron of hurricanes? You do the best you can with what you can get. In 69 when they filmed “the Battle of Britain “ these were just old aeroplanes, not multimillion $$ warbirds. By the time this was done, on a limited budget, they had few options. All the snooty nerds who point out the discrepancies aren’t big in suggestions, unless you want it all to be cgi, which sucks.
This is a much different edit than we got in New Zealand, much more dialogue and different scenes, I recall Mary being strafed in the book but not in the series, I reckon we missed this whole episode actually.
Thats true, and in the book Hornet Squadron operate the Hurricane pre-war and later fly them to France with the BEF during the phony war, and later into action during the invasion of France. The producers of the series had no choice but to use late mark Spitfires as the Hurricane was not well represented in numbers at the time this series was made, (1988) unlike these days where there are around 12 flyable and more under restoration to fly.
Dowding didn't send any Spitfires to France because he knew he couldn't defend England without them. While there were enough flyable Hurricanes in 1968 to make *Battle of Britain*, there weren't enough two decades later when this series was shot. It's fairly likely the same Spitfire, the same Me-109 and the same Heinkel 111 appeared in *Battle of Britain*, *Piece of Cake*, and *Dunkirk* because all three aircraft remained in production after World War II, in Britain and in Spain. New Heinkels and Messerschmidts continued to be built in Spain because Franco couldn't get anything better. Somehow he obtained Merlin engines (the same engine that powered the Hurricane, most Spitfires, the Lancaster, and the P-51 Mustang) after his stockpile of German engines ran out.
@@oldgringo2001 In fact in Battle of Britain they only had 3 Hurries for the film. There's a shot where they're training a polish flight and the three 'Hurries' in the background are actually 109's. Great film tho`.
The Hurricane was actually mostly fabric-covered; like the Grumman Wildcat, it was really a redesign of a biplane. It was still an effective fighter in 1940, but not that much later Me-109Fs and Zeros wiped them off Malta and the Far East. I hope there's a "tin opener" preserved somewhere, a Hurry with a couple of 40mm cannons in the wings.
"...forward into broad sunlit uplands." Did Winston really say that? I know JRR Tolkien did in "Return of the King" (Gandalf to Pippen when he describes what happens after death). Of course Tolkien was still in the process of writing at this time. :-)
I watched the whole series when it was on Masterpiece Theatre; it was one of the last series that Alastair Cooke hosted. Anyway, while the squadron should be flying Hurricanes at this time, there weren't any Hurricanes still flyable, I guess, by the time the series was made. In reality, no Spitfires at all were based in France in 1939 and 1940, and while the early Spits and Hurris actually had wooden propellers (see the first episode), these four-bladed models didn't come along until much later (eventually Spits finished up with five blades and upgraded from the Merlin engine to the Rolls-Royce Griffin). I haven't read all of Derek Robinson's book yet, but I do know the ending is quite different. Also, Robinson wrote at least one other Hornet Squadron book, set in World War I.
in the early days the Messerschmidt was named Bayerische Flugzeugwerke(BF),later on ME for Messerschmidt,as he was only the constructor,not the owner of the company
Im about 4 years late, but i just commented the same myself. Its really odd such a glaring mistake, the idea a 1940 spitfire wouldnt stall after several seconds of inverted flying, in a series that is trying to be realistic.
Mrs Richards: "I paid for a room with a view !" Basil: (pointing to the lovely view) "That is Torquay, Madam ." Mrs Richards: "It's not good enough!" Basil: "May I ask what you were expecting to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window ? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically past?..." Mrs Richards: "Don't be silly! I expect to be able to see the sea!" Basil: "You can see the sea, it's over there between the land and the sky." Mrs Richards: "I'm not satisfied. But I shall stay. But I expect a reduction." Basil: "Why?! Because Krakatoa's not erupting at the moment ?"
My history of art lecturer at university of Cape Town in the 60's was very gay. Very elegant...even beautiful. Later I found out he was a battle of Britain pilot....very good teacher too.
Planes could be replaced a lot more easily than pilots, so some pilots could be on the ground while others were using the available planes. But, if any plane was air worthy, would it have been left on the ground, let alone without any effort to camo it?
This was a really good series. A lot of RAF veterans of the era had negative things to say about the book and the series but that was mostly concerning the personalities and the stunts they pulled, like flying under bridges. .
A quaint movie but with very little real history or research made and applied to the film. Spitfires were mot used in France before the Battle of Britten, nor were Spitfires equipt with cannons during this early period of the war, Instead, all Spitfires were fitted with 8 machine guns, and had jamming problems in earlier models The list goes on and on.
Yes... had it been filmed in 1940 those piddly details might have been corrected. 50 years later they had to make do with what was available. But had it been filmed in 1940, nit-pickers would have whining about the resolution...
Available aircraft and production budgets meant that that they had to ‘make do’ with Spitfire Mk9s and not Hurricane Mk1s. Even with a much bigger budget 20 years before the producers of ‘The Battle of Britain’ struggled to find enough authentic 1940 era planes - all the Messerschmitt’s in that film were post WW2 Spanish airforce variants, as were the Henkels. There were just enough Hurricanes (maybe 6) that could still fly in 1969 with another dozen stationary models. The film producers could source enough spitfires of all types and had the budget to cosmetically alter the later models to make them all look like Mk1s. But for this 1988/9 series the produces made an early call to simply use the dozen or so functioning Mk9s available and de done with it. The series is enjoyable if one thinks of it as ‘authentic’, if not 100% historically ‘accurate’.
The only list that goes on and on is the list of boring nit-pickers pointing out what's of no importance for the n'th time to make themselves feel clever.
The RAF doctrine stressed close formation of fighters in a group of 4. Whereas the Germans opted for what was termed Loose goose: two lead aircraft and supporting Wingman in a loose formation. The RAF moved to this doctrine during the Battle of Britton.the USAAF latter evolved this further and dominated air battles latter in the War. The Germans moved to tighter formation due to the decline in pilots experience so allowing afew leaders to better control air battles: essentially when to engage or withdraw at that stage
@@russellmiles2861 Loose goose? Watching too much Top Gun? The Luftwaffe opted for a Rotte paired from a leader and his wingman. Two Rotten make a Schwarm in "Finger Four" formation: spread out like your fingertips with the forefinger (lead wingman) nearest the sun, flight leader (middle finger) second flight leader (ring finger) second wingman (pinkie) each one slightly higher than the previous aircraft.
@@LosPeregrinos51 I think we are in agreement. The contention was whether wingman maintained short distance and specific orientation on leader. That was the RAF doctrine. The Luftwaffe and latter USAAF practice was for a looser orientation. I think you are observing that the RAF at one time had a flight of 3 not four. Anyway, the key factor was relationship between bombers and escort. The Luftwaffe had inconsistent practices. USAAF started with close support. Then when they attained air superiority adopted a pursuit practice.
The Luftwaffe adopted flights of four when in spain. The reason they changed to 4 was the lack of planes. They started with 2 flights of 3 so instead of 6 planes per sortie they used 4.
Spits with 4 bladed propellers and 2 20 mm cannon that early in the war. The RAF would have made short work of the Luftwaffe at that stage of the war regardless of how outnumbered they were. If only that was the case in real life
just look this up on the web it do sagest no Spitfires were based France the Spitfires you talking about were probable based in the south of England In the air, the Allies were outnumbered. The Armée de l'Air had 1,562 aircraft, and RAF Fighter Command committed 680 machines, while RAF Bomber Command could contribute some 392 aircraft to operations.[61] Some of the Allied types were approaching obsolescence, such as the Fairey Battle. In the fighter force, only the British Hawker Hurricane and the French Dewoitine D.520 could contend with the German Messerschmitt Bf 109, the D.520 having better manoeuvrability although being slightly slower.[77] On 10 May 1940, only 36 D.520s had been dispatched, all to one squadron. In fighter aircraft, the Allies had the numerical advantage; 836 German Bf 109s against 81 Belgian, 261 British and 764 French fighters of various types. The French and British also had larger aircraft reserves.[78]
i have always understood that Mr W Churchill refused to send spitfires to France which pissed the French off at the time but if you find the squadron and were there were based i will change my view
this list is from the British Air Forces in France yes on wiki and it is the battle order and as you see they was no spitfire squadrons in the BEF any spitfires that shoot down in May 1940 would have been based in the south of England Number of Squadrons Aircraft type Intended use Air Component 5 Westland Lysander Tactical reconnaissance and photographic survey 4 Bristol Blenheim Strategic reconnaissance 4 Hawker Hurricane Fighter AASF 8 Fairey Battle Light bomber 2 Bristol Blenheim medium bomber 2 Hawker Hurricane Fighter
And No Messerschmitt 108 ˋTaifunsˋ flew over the Normandy beaches, strafing the invaders, as in ”The Longest Day” movie. One has to use What one can find…
It was also (mainly) negative Gs when diving to follow an Me 109 with fuel injection that had gone into a steep dive with ease. Beatrice Shilling fixed that problem with what was named "Miss Shilling's orifice".
The problem wasn’t inverted flight per se, but the effect of negative G forces on the carburettor when going into a dive or doing a slow barrel roll. Even before Mrs Shillings Orifice was adopted as a temporary fix, the problem was largely overcome by piloted maintaining positive g forces by performing a half roll before diving. Stanford Tuck and Bader were both interviewed about this, and both said that RAF pilots soon became quite adept with the manoeuvre - much to the surprise to the Luftwaffe pilots who thought that this characteristic of Merlin Engined fighters gave them a distinct advantage
+Saiful Bahri Kamaruddin They had to use the planes they could lay their hands on... In reality, no Spits, only Hurricanes, went over to France in 1939/40.
Indeed, nor did they have twin radiators. They seem to be Mk IX at least, which came much later than 1939.But a very bad mistake is they couldn't fly inverted, that'd starve the carburetor in seconds.
@@Retro-Future-Land ... which boils down to the same conclusion, not something they could effectively use, same with a dive to escape any rear enemy. They could patch it with an ad hoc fix though.
Sorry narrater but Squadron Leader Barton was a New Zealander in the book. Not Australian. As we all know Kiwi's where 2nd only to Poles in numbers during the Battle of Britain.
@@tomhanna8508 No body is denying that my friend. And a bloody fantastic job thay did as well. However Britain never stood alone. Her colonies and occupied nations were right there in the thick of it.
MBCGRS I’m sure the British pilots would be absolutely delighted with that ringing endorsement. Over the moon in fact. However, if you bother to re-read your original comment British pilots, according to you at least, did not even take part. The Poles and the Kiwis did it all, along with some others you graciously acknowledge. There were over 2300 British pilots in the battle. Other nations, predominantly Poles, Kiwis and Canadians comprised around 20% of the British total. Just check what you write in future before you hit ‘Send’. You come across as a pillock otherwise.
Ok Gentleman I concede. For the truely uneducated amongst us, my comment may be misinterpreted as to imply that no British pilots flew in the BOB. Which is of course ridiculous and would be a massive discredit to their sacrifice. My original intention was to bring light to the fact that the character of Sqd Ldr Barton in the book is a Kiwi and was changed to an Auzzie for the TV series. I can only speculate why this was done. Maybe Australia having 5 times NZs viewing audience had something to do with it. I remember being disappointed with this change as a Kiwi kid learning to fly. That the 100+ NZ pilots who fought in the BOB were somehow being overlooked. I will have to settle then with the nice memory of my friend and fellow Kiwi, Ray Hanna. Flying his Spitfire under Winston bridge in this series. Showing the whinging Poms how its done... as usual.
"Wings" the documentary series; "Wings" the comedy series with Tony Shaloub; or "Wings", the silent movie that won the very first Best Picture Oscar. I wasn't around for the first release of the last one.
Typical flying movie. Spotless planes, and pilots who never wear their goggles or oxygen masks. Also, the actual british ground control used young women to guide the planes, toward the germans in order to avoid confusion with radio traffic during air engagements (and perhaps to inspire greater courage among the young male pilots). On the other hand, good flying, engaging characters, and the engine sounds were excellent. I couldn't help but to binge watch!
French insistence in the use of outdated tactics caused this debacle. Both France and Britain had observers in Poland durning its invasion but learned nothing.
If you freeze the image at 30:02 you will notice it's a JU-52 as the rescue plane. Now apparently in the novel it was "Nim" Renouf who shot down the rescue plane (not "Amanda" Steele Stebbing) and it was actually a HE-59 seaplane. Obviously airworthy HE-59s do not exist so they had to make do with a JU-52. Still the look on "Amanda" really speaks for itself.
The mere fact that the Germans painted red crosses on them did not make them no-go: in fact, the were used for reconnaissance as stated in the series. All under the umbrella of the Red Cross. They were eventually repainted and armed.
Yep, although they weren't red cross per sa but Luftwaffe. The anglo pilot is a prick for that Germans were loathe to do such things usually, but I guess every airforce has its bloodthirsty contingent.
Erm..that was Flip, he's Irish, as was the Actor, who was actually screaming, as the spark inside the cockpit continued to burn, through his uniform, skin and down to the bone...ouch!
I'm retreating from reality...only watch old TV, films and the best from my era.
You are not alone...
I am really enjoying this series! So much better than the reality crap on TV now. There is actually a story and they talk in complete sentences. How refreshing.
The book is even better. You will laugh and cry at the same time.
All these episodes were missing for awhile. Ep 4 still missing. Thank you 🙏 for posting
Episode 4 is still missing 07/22.
There was a PR squadron of Spitfires based outside Paris in 1940. But they were used for high altitude photographs over the advancing German panzer Divisions not combat. But it doesn’t really matter that much. In 1940 there were few Spitfires on frontline service. The spitfire took longer to make than the Hurricane. So there were more Hurricane squadrons than Spitfire squadrons.
I found this accidentally. Gosh what breathtakingly-authentic dialogue and characterization, and those spitties! It gave me a little feel of what living on the 'ragged edge' must have been like. Jolly good post Mr Lewis. Thank you. Can we find any more? Australia
Really "Piece of Cake", not only a title, it was a very good movie.
Thank you. 👍👏
In this episode a blurry blob with wings took off and at some point a smaller blurry blob jumped out of it. Later some blobs glide down and land near a large white blob, which could be a house, not sure. It's a great series, I just wish it was a bit higher resolution.
Spitfires in 1940 had carburettors with floats controlling the flow of fuel into the intake manifold, unlike the Bf109s which had fuel injection. While they fixed it with pressurised throttle bodies later in the war, flying inverted for any length of time in 1940, or having extended periods of negative Gs would cause the float to rise, which cuts of the flow of fuel. Flash's spitfire flying upside-down would have stalled.
Beatrice Shilling fixed that. Look it up.
Perhaps he was using Miss Shilling’s orifice.
Top show what! Thanks for posting. From the old Aussie.
The RAF did shoot down rescue planes, but the only ones I know of that were operating at this time were Heinkel He-115 floatplanes, not Junkers Ju-52s. I'm surprised they found a Ju-52 flying; the last one I remember seeing on screen before this was in that preposterous Richard Burton/Clint Eastwood thriller Where Eagles Dare.
Preposterous was it? Seemed like a war movie to me bro.
@oldgringo2001. There were Also 2 Ju 52’s (one flying) in the movie ”Battle of Britain”.
One of the better war series portraying the self-deprecating humour of fighter pilots against a backdrop of the run-up to the Battle of Britain. Memorable characters all, as one by one they join the KIA list until only two of the old lags remain, Fanny and Pip - there's irony for you. I was backing Chris Hart to survive, given his understanding of battle tactics gleaned from the Spanish Civil War, not forgetting the indestructible Moggy, a born killer if ever there was one. Just goes to show that in war you need a little more than training and experience ... in everyday language we would call it luck. That immeasurable, unquantifiable elixir that defies scientific reasoning - hell of a thing to rely on day after day, wouldn't you say!
Definitely! Luck of the draw. I hope my lucky star is shining! The semi-post Covid times have not been good.
In the book Christopher Hart survived through the last page :-)
In the Book CH3 does survive
Anyone can learn to fly (given time). Fighter pilots are selected for their aggressiveness and confidence.
Hart at 3:30: “ ...with an aeroplane put together with string and glue.” Shenanigans. That line, if it existed in the book, may have referred to the Hurricane (which is what Hornet squadron actually flew in France in 1940), but not the Spit: the first all metal and riveted monocoque fighter. Years ahead of its time.
@Marc van den Boogaard I’ve never read anywhere that the pilots who flew them thought the Hurricane was crap. However, they seem to all acknowledge that it really reached the end of the development road by the end of the first phase of the Battle for Malta; but it undeniably had a ‘sweet spot’ in the Battle of Britain - it could out turn a 109 and the Merlin gave it enough energy to stay in the fight against the german fighters (even though its top speed was something like 30MHP slower). It was easy for a new and average pilot to fly and was an excellent gun platform for those pilots. From what I’ve read all of these attributes were ‘known knowns’ back in 1940.
The book was hilarious. The series missed all the humour. The bit where moggy got dragged around in the bog by iron filings was hysterical. The series was rather depressing. It is a great book. I’ve read it 10 times
Yes when film makers , get hold of a good book they ruin it , always have Hollywood is just crap .
@@alisonhilll4317 this was made in the UK, not hollywood, but I take your point. I think they missed one of the essential points if the story. These guys. Prior to the real war, had a lot of fun and were just kids. Many if these actors looked like 30+ yrs old. Your avg RAF inductee was 19 or 20 at most. They were as immature as one would expect. Except for the Poles and Czechs who came over. Those that didn't die were robbed of their youth and innocence. But they also had a lot of laughs. They were high spirited, like a sports team. They didn't all just skulk around being mad at Moggy. The series missed that entirely. Having said that, I could watch spitfires taking off and landing all day.
Humorous yes, but I thought the novel was grittier as well. It's a damned fine read.
Alison Hilll actually the author Derek Robinson was very pleased with the TV adaptation.
UK Vintage OVAL Racing ah, what does he know.
I remember this series coming out in the late 80s...very mixed reception at the time and more recently...however, I think I'm right in saying that one of its technical advisers was a Group Captain Peter Matthews...and he actually flew with 1 Squadron in France.
Never fly straight for more than a minute. One from Douglas Bader.
Too bad that advice was not listened to by the pilots of Hornet Squadron.
One small thing that irritates me is how the cars in period films are all so clean and shiny. I can't keep my car clean and shiny for more than a few hours. With all the dirt roads back then, all cars would have some dust and dirt, especially around the wheels.
I know the cars are collector's items, and the owners want them kept nice. But, it really hurts the realism.
The "Flash flying inverted" sub plot annoyed me way more. Early spitfires had regular carburettors that use float chambers to control fuel flow. Flying upside down would stall the engine in a matter of seconds, but yeah, my car is filthy after driving down a dirt driveway, much less driving on unpaved 1940s roads.
Great book, don't know how many times I've read it!
Sorry, author name please
@@ChileMiPais Derek Robinson is the author.
Funny, in Derek Robinson’s Book Fanny Barton was a New Zealander (Pretty sure on that one) the book was as are all his books very funny, A Good Clean Fight is excellent I just wish they made a series of that. Quite right also that Hurricanes were the equipment used in France , not enough hurricanes left flying to make this series.
If you are interested in the books or the TV series #PieceOfCake, join us at DEREK ROBINSON READERS to learn more about his great RFC and RAF novels, superb characters and his stark black comedy!
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UK Vintage OVAL Racing thanks I have read several of Dereks Robinson’s books and they are all excellent. POC and a good clean fight would be my favourites
A good clean fight ...112 Sqn mixed with SAS
... "SERGEANT, ARREST THAT MAN"
I remember this series being shown in the UK. According to Google it was between October & November 1988. Of course the RAF only used Hurricanes in France & most of the Spitfires used in the series were post 1940 marks.
Gary Simpson and the spitfire where not Canoed armed either they didn’t come in till 1941 1942
And the 109's are post war Spanish types.
Ok but what were they supposed to do? Go to Marks and Spencers and buy a squadron of hurricanes? You do the best you can with what you can get. In 69 when they filmed “the Battle of Britain “ these were just old aeroplanes, not multimillion $$ warbirds. By the time this was done, on a limited budget, they had few options. All the snooty nerds who point out the discrepancies aren’t big in suggestions, unless you want it all to be cgi, which sucks.
I could be wrong but I thought that only Hurricanes were used in France ? Probably because no flying Hurricanes at time of filming. Thanks for posting
Yeah even then there were only 2 or 3. About a dozen spitfires though. You do what you can with what you got.
That’s incredible timing
This is a much different edit than we got in New Zealand, much more dialogue and different scenes, I recall Mary being strafed in the book but not in the series, I reckon we missed this whole episode actually.
Episode 4 is missing, butyou can find it on Ahuf Kuzu's channel....
Never really understood this, as Spitfires didn't go to France. Only Hurricanes in 1939?
Thats true, and in the book Hornet Squadron operate the Hurricane pre-war and later fly them to France with the BEF during the phony war, and later into action during the invasion of France. The producers of the series had no choice but to use late mark Spitfires as the Hurricane was not well represented in numbers at the time this series was made, (1988) unlike these days where there are around 12 flyable and more under restoration to fly.
Dowding didn't send any Spitfires to France because he knew he couldn't defend England without them. While there were enough flyable Hurricanes in 1968 to make *Battle of Britain*, there weren't enough two decades later when this series was shot.
It's fairly likely the same Spitfire, the same Me-109 and the same Heinkel 111 appeared in *Battle of Britain*, *Piece of Cake*, and *Dunkirk* because all three aircraft remained in production after World War II, in Britain and in Spain. New Heinkels and Messerschmidts continued to be built in Spain because Franco couldn't get anything better. Somehow he obtained Merlin engines (the same engine that powered the Hurricane, most Spitfires, the Lancaster, and the P-51 Mustang) after his stockpile of German engines ran out.
@@oldgringo2001 In fact in Battle of Britain they only had 3 Hurries for the film. There's a shot where they're training a polish flight and the three 'Hurries' in the background are actually 109's. Great film tho`.
The Hurricane was actually mostly fabric-covered; like the Grumman Wildcat, it was really a redesign of a biplane. It was still an effective fighter in 1940, but not that much later Me-109Fs and Zeros wiped them off Malta and the Far East. I hope there's a "tin opener" preserved somewhere, a Hurry with a couple of 40mm cannons in the wings.
@@oldgringo2001 the Hurricane doesn't get the justice it deserves. It was the mainstay of the battle of Britain.
"...forward into broad sunlit uplands." Did Winston really say that? I know JRR Tolkien did in "Return of the King" (Gandalf to Pippen when he describes what happens after death). Of course Tolkien was still in the process of writing at this time. :-)
Yes he did.
Yes it was in one of his speeches.
So Gandalf was a Brexiteer??
I watched the whole series when it was on Masterpiece Theatre; it was one of the last series that Alastair Cooke hosted. Anyway, while the squadron should be flying Hurricanes at this time, there weren't any Hurricanes still flyable, I guess, by the time the series was made. In reality, no Spitfires at all were based in France in 1939 and 1940, and while the early Spits and Hurris actually had wooden propellers (see the first episode), these four-bladed models didn't come along until much later (eventually Spits finished up with five blades and upgraded from the Merlin engine to the Rolls-Royce Griffin).
I haven't read all of Derek Robinson's book yet, but I do know the ending is quite different. Also, Robinson wrote at least one other Hornet Squadron book, set in World War I.
2001, Alice the Cook?
You can easily see which Spitfires on ground are real and which are mock ups.
The mock ups have much larger red-white-blue stripes on their fins.
Inspector Lewis
Somethings afoot Watson
Nice video Thanks . Question at 18:30 does he ask the Driver to Take Him to Manston Airfield ?
What is it with the reference to “An ME109” (18:10), weren’t they known as Bf109s?
in the early days the Messerschmidt was named Bayerische Flugzeugwerke(BF),later on ME for Messerschmidt,as he was only the constructor,not the owner of the company
1940 -48 series Spits were carbureted--no upside down; these Marks are dash 60's--'43 & '44 models......injector carbs.
Im about 4 years late, but i just commented the same myself. Its really odd such a glaring mistake, the idea a 1940 spitfire wouldnt stall after several seconds of inverted flying, in a series that is trying to be realistic.
Mrs Richards: "I paid for a room with a view !"
Basil: (pointing to the lovely view) "That is Torquay, Madam ."
Mrs Richards: "It's not good enough!"
Basil: "May I ask what you were expecting to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window ? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically past?..."
Mrs Richards: "Don't be silly! I expect to be able to see the sea!"
Basil: "You can see the sea, it's over there between the land and the sky."
Mrs Richards: "I'm not satisfied. But I shall stay. But I expect a reduction."
Basil: "Why?! Because Krakatoa's not erupting at the moment ?"
Wonder what happened to episode 4???
I'm locking the canopy open. I'll loose speed because of drag but I wouldn't burn.
Is this series on Prime or other streaming service?
Enjoyed the series even if inaccurate as no Spits were based in France in 1940
”Artistic License”, since There were not enough flying Hurricanes to use.
@@YDDES They had to use what they could still not a bad series
srg miller Yes, I know and I think ”Piece of Cake” actually was better than ” Battle of Britain”.
@@YDDES Preferred BoB more
My history of art lecturer at university of Cape Town in the 60's was very gay. Very elegant...even beautiful. Later I found out he was a battle of Britain pilot....very good teacher too.
Stolen valour
In this episode why did they not scramble the aircraft rather than let the Luftwaffe bomb them?
That just annoyed the hell out of me!!
Peter Wright They weren't ready!
It's possible that they weren't flyable, but they certainly wouldn't have been left out in the open.
Planes could be replaced a lot more easily than pilots, so some pilots could be on the ground while others were using the available planes. But, if any plane was air worthy, would it have been left on the ground, let alone without any effort to camo it?
I'd like to know the title of the opening theme.
Yoshio Kaku Me too,very beautiful theme. Haven't been able to locate any reference to any LP/CD release!
Jman
ruclips.net/video/T3mjKq6Kbcs/видео.html
This was a really good series. A lot of RAF veterans of the era had negative things to say about the book and the series but that was mostly concerning the personalities and the stunts they pulled, like flying under bridges.
.
They did fly under bridges, just not that small.
What does Zaddy say at 33:51? It sounds like, "Masz to bal idzie, Fritzo", which would be, "You have a ball [dance] coming, Fritz". Is that right?
That was "chodź tu bliżej, franco", which is translated freely as "come closer, ugly bitch"...
+Sławomir Drews Ah, thanks. Afterwards I wondered if it was "Masz do bliższej, Fritzo", but thanks for that. :-)
Chodź tu bliżej would literally be, "Come here closer", yes? I know "suka" but not "franco". Cheers again for that. :-)
A quaint movie but with very little real history or research made and applied to the film.
Spitfires were mot used in France before the Battle of Britten, nor were Spitfires equipt with cannons during this early period of the war, Instead, all Spitfires were fitted with 8 machine guns, and had jamming problems in earlier models The list goes on and on.
Yes... had it been filmed in 1940 those piddly details might have been corrected. 50 years later they had to make do with what was available. But had it been filmed in 1940, nit-pickers would have whining about the resolution...
Available aircraft and production budgets meant that that they had to ‘make do’ with Spitfire Mk9s and not Hurricane Mk1s. Even with a much bigger budget 20 years before the producers of ‘The Battle of Britain’ struggled to find enough authentic 1940 era planes - all the Messerschmitt’s in that film were post WW2 Spanish airforce variants, as were the Henkels. There were just enough Hurricanes (maybe 6) that could still fly in 1969 with another dozen stationary models. The film producers could source enough spitfires of all types and had the budget to cosmetically alter the later models to make them all look like Mk1s. But for this 1988/9 series the produces made an early call to simply use the dozen or so functioning Mk9s available and de done with it. The series is enjoyable if one thinks of it as ‘authentic’, if not 100% historically ‘accurate’.
@@andrewmetcalfe9898 There were only 3 flyable, and about the same amount of non-flier Hurricanes available when Battle of Britain was filmed.
The only list that goes on and on is the list of boring nit-pickers pointing out what's of no importance for the n'th time to make themselves feel clever.
The got one thing correct when the pilots called the Hurricane a Traing aircraft.
Where is the forth episode gone
To sunlit uplands.
Vet uk ,..BLESS THEM ALL ,THE LONG THE SHORT AND THE TALL.....
Killing Moggy Cattermole then having a sequel without him never felt right.
In reality, Moggie was Billy Drake CO of 112 Sqn (used in the sequel).
Notice how the pilots are looking around for the Luftwaffe instead of trying to maintaining a tight flying formation.
The RAF doctrine stressed close formation of fighters in a group of 4. Whereas the Germans opted for what was termed Loose goose: two lead aircraft and supporting Wingman in a loose formation. The RAF moved to this doctrine during the Battle of Britton.the USAAF latter evolved this further and dominated air battles latter in the War. The Germans moved to tighter formation due to the decline in pilots experience so allowing afew leaders to better control air battles: essentially when to engage or withdraw at that stage
@@russellmiles2861 Loose goose? Watching too much Top Gun? The Luftwaffe opted for a Rotte paired from a leader and his wingman. Two Rotten make a Schwarm in "Finger Four" formation: spread out like your fingertips with the forefinger (lead wingman) nearest the sun, flight leader (middle finger) second flight leader (ring finger) second wingman (pinkie) each one slightly higher than the previous aircraft.
@@LosPeregrinos51 I think we are in agreement. The contention was whether wingman maintained short distance and specific orientation on leader. That was the RAF doctrine. The Luftwaffe and latter USAAF practice was for a looser orientation. I think you are observing that the RAF at one time had a flight of 3 not four. Anyway, the key factor was relationship between bombers and escort. The Luftwaffe had inconsistent practices. USAAF started with close support. Then when they attained air superiority adopted a pursuit practice.
The Luftwaffe adopted flights of four when in spain. The reason they changed to 4 was the lack of planes. They started with 2 flights of 3 so instead of 6 planes per sortie they used 4.
Spits with 4 bladed propellers and 2 20 mm cannon that early in the war. The RAF would have made short work of the Luftwaffe at that stage of the war regardless of how outnumbered they were. If only that was the case in real life
The producera couldn’t afford to rebuild the Spits, like They did in ”The Battle of Britain” movie.
The Hispano cannons weren't ready and to be honest, weren't the best cannons when they were. The later models in '43-'44 were much better.
Thanks for uploading what you have, although, I can't seem to find episode four. Pity. It seemed a good series.
Nary a Spitfire was sent to France, but it's duecedly hard to get a flying Hurricane.
you right my friend no spitfires were ever sent to France in 1940. Dunkirk was when the spitfire entered the action
just look this up on the web it do sagest no Spitfires were based France the Spitfires you talking about were probable based in the south of England
In the air, the Allies were outnumbered. The Armée de l'Air had 1,562 aircraft, and RAF Fighter Command committed 680 machines, while RAF Bomber Command could contribute some 392 aircraft to operations.[61] Some of the Allied types were approaching obsolescence, such as the Fairey Battle. In the fighter force, only the British Hawker Hurricane and the French Dewoitine D.520 could contend with the German Messerschmitt Bf 109, the D.520 having better manoeuvrability although being slightly slower.[77] On 10 May 1940, only 36 D.520s had been dispatched, all to one squadron. In fighter aircraft, the Allies had the numerical advantage; 836 German Bf 109s against 81 Belgian, 261 British and 764 French fighters of various types. The French and British also had larger aircraft reserves.[78]
+18tangles
But, were they BASED in France?...
i have always understood that Mr W Churchill refused to send spitfires to France which pissed the French off at the time but if you find the squadron and were there were based i will change my view
this list is from the British Air Forces in France yes on wiki and it is the battle order and as you see they was no spitfire squadrons in the BEF
any spitfires that shoot down in May 1940 would have been based in the south of England
Number of
Squadrons Aircraft type Intended use
Air Component
5 Westland Lysander Tactical reconnaissance and photographic survey
4 Bristol Blenheim Strategic reconnaissance
4 Hawker Hurricane Fighter
AASF
8 Fairey Battle Light bomber
2 Bristol Blenheim medium bomber
2 Hawker Hurricane Fighter
I've let off firecrackers with more punch than those bombs at 48:36 : )
You can't use "real" bombs creating shockwaves and splinters on a movie set.
the big thing is to keep him from the wireless when he PM is on!!!!!!!
Put it in the search as "Piece of Cake e4" and it will come.
Poor Flip.
The change is permanent once it comes to the Battle of Britain.
I understand no Spitfires were based in France in 1940.
Correct. They were a Hurricanes - as per the book.
And No Messerschmitt 108 ˋTaifunsˋ flew over the Normandy beaches, strafing the invaders, as in ”The Longest Day” movie. One has to use What one can find…
everybody needs a Moggy on their side !
He's the kind of guy you want next to you in a trench, and not living next to you back home.
If I was a German I'd be upset to discover my 109 somehow got a Merlin engine 🤔
There are perhaps 2 me109s in the world with the DB engine. If they aren’t available what are you supposed to do?
@@sblack48 learn to speak Spanish
30:20 bloodthirsty pilot right there. Unless he was testing him?
24:01 This is right. But it wasn't totally worthless either.
Moggie character based on Billy Drake.
Early Spitfires had problems with inverted flight due to carburetors.
It was also (mainly) negative Gs when diving to follow an Me 109 with fuel injection that had gone into a steep dive with ease. Beatrice Shilling fixed that problem with what was named "Miss Shilling's orifice".
Thats right and I don't believe they had 4 bladed props till later in the war
The problem wasn’t inverted flight per se, but the effect of negative G forces on the carburettor when going into a dive or doing a slow barrel roll. Even before Mrs Shillings Orifice was adopted as a temporary fix, the problem was largely overcome by piloted maintaining positive g forces by performing a half roll before diving. Stanford Tuck and Bader were both interviewed about this, and both said that RAF pilots soon became quite adept with the manoeuvre - much to the surprise to the Luftwaffe pilots who thought that this characteristic of Merlin Engined fighters gave them a distinct advantage
Sticky is gone....
1988 ! good times 🤪
the spits didn't have 4-blade props in 1939/40, only 1944 and later
+Saiful Bahri Kamaruddin
They had to use the planes they could lay their hands on...
In reality, no Spits, only Hurricanes, went over to France in 1939/40.
Indeed, nor did they have twin radiators. They seem to be Mk IX at least, which came much later than 1939.But a very bad mistake is they couldn't fly inverted, that'd starve the carburetor in seconds.
From 1942, with Mk. VI and Mk.IX arrived...
@@no_fb They could roll inverted briefly I believe but not for more than a second or two.
@@Retro-Future-Land ... which boils down to the same conclusion, not something they could effectively use, same with a dive to escape any rear enemy. They could patch it with an ad hoc fix though.
THE BOOK WAS DIFFERENT, BETTER WITH MORE STORYLINES, READ THE BOOK!
Thoroughly agreed...mind you I had the great pleasure to know the author....
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READ THE BOOK OLD CHAPS
Really? Then you'd know that he also wrote the screenplay for the TV series.
- You get the hang of it in a couple of days... Vad är det som har hänt?
Hehehe.
Bilding wood Clare fiberglass
l
@Marc van den Boogaard Hehe
It's swedish.
Ingenting!
Sticky noooooooo
Sorry narrater but Squadron Leader Barton was a New Zealander in the book. Not Australian. As we all know Kiwi's where 2nd only to Poles in numbers during the Battle of Britain.
MBCGRS I think you’ll find there were more British pilots than either Poles or Kiwis.
@@tomhanna8508 No body is denying that my friend. And a bloody fantastic job thay did as well. However Britain never stood alone. Her colonies and occupied nations were right there in the thick of it.
MBCGRS I’m sure the British pilots would be absolutely delighted with that ringing endorsement. Over the moon in fact. However, if you bother to re-read your original comment British pilots, according to you at least, did not even take part. The Poles and the Kiwis did it all, along with some others you graciously acknowledge. There were over 2300 British pilots in the battle. Other nations, predominantly Poles, Kiwis and Canadians comprised around 20% of the British total. Just check what you write in future before you hit ‘Send’. You come across as a pillock otherwise.
Ok Gentleman I concede. For the truely uneducated amongst us, my comment may be misinterpreted as to imply that no British pilots flew in the BOB. Which is of course ridiculous and would be a massive discredit to their sacrifice. My original intention was to bring light to the fact that the character of Sqd Ldr Barton in the book is a Kiwi and was changed to an Auzzie for the TV series. I can only speculate why this was done. Maybe Australia having 5 times NZs viewing audience had something to do with it. I remember being disappointed with this change as a Kiwi kid learning to fly. That the 100+ NZ pilots who fought in the BOB were somehow being overlooked. I will have to settle then with the nice memory of my friend and fellow Kiwi, Ray Hanna. Flying his Spitfire under Winston bridge in this series. Showing the whinging Poms how its done... as usual.
I don't remember this, but I do remember Wings
"Wings" the documentary series; "Wings" the comedy series with Tony Shaloub; or "Wings", the silent movie that won the very first Best Picture Oscar. I wasn't around for the first release of the last one.
@@oldgringo2001 wings the silent film, my dad saw that film left an impression. Why didn't they use mosquitos they came into service nov think 41.
Typical flying movie. Spotless planes, and pilots who never wear their goggles or oxygen masks. Also, the actual british ground control used young women to guide the planes, toward the germans in order to avoid confusion with radio traffic during air engagements (and perhaps to inspire greater courage among the young male pilots). On the other hand, good flying, engaging characters, and the engine sounds were excellent. I couldn't help but to binge watch!
They don't wear masks or goggles so you can see the actors' faces.
44:17 Holy fuck 😲
In the book they flew hurricanes.
Robert Durning You are right. No Spitfires were deployed to France only Hurricanes.
And, where would You find enough of airworthy Hurricanes in these days?
Spit 9s in '39...? seems legit.
Espescially since they were Hurricanes in the novel.....
Yes, if it’s the only ones You can get. There were not enough airworthy Spifire I:s.
French insistence in the use of outdated tactics caused this debacle. Both France and Britain had observers in Poland durning its invasion but learned nothing.
Officers never physically fight each other. Hurricanes in France, not Spitfires. Longwinded and inaccurate.
And Mk I spitfires couldnt fly inverted, their carburettor floats would cut off the fuel in seconds.
Never, ever?
12:17 you have to remember morale had hit rock bottom by that point with Hornet Squadron along with the Battle of France so Pip lost his cool.
That pilot just baled out with out fighting!
Correct. Patterson didn't fancy fighting!
Fitzgerald and Gordon were married..........................
Didn't get the Jerry's in the dingy did you yellow 2,oh dear you perfetic fart!
What a line that was fucking ace..
!940s` Hairstyles Wrong.
hope they stopped singing and getting pissed and actually doing some work
Bastards shooting red cross rescue planes...
If you freeze the image at 30:02 you will notice it's a JU-52 as the rescue plane. Now apparently in the novel it was "Nim" Renouf who shot down the rescue plane (not "Amanda" Steele Stebbing) and it was actually a HE-59 seaplane.
Obviously airworthy HE-59s do not exist so they had to make do with a JU-52. Still the look on "Amanda" really speaks for itself.
The mere fact that the Germans painted red crosses on them did not make them no-go: in fact, the were used for reconnaissance as stated in the series. All under the umbrella of the Red Cross. They were eventually repainted and armed.
Yep, although they weren't red cross per sa but Luftwaffe. The anglo pilot is a prick for that Germans were loathe to do such things usually, but I guess every airforce has its bloodthirsty contingent.
Beautiful "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" ... but this is just short of Suck !!
Refreshing seeing that english flegmatic gentleman cooking and screaming like a hog in his wonderful Spitfire ahaha oh dear..
Erm..that was Flip, he's Irish, as was the Actor, who was actually screaming, as the spark inside the cockpit continued to burn, through his uniform, skin and down to the bone...ouch!
Great book, don't know how many times I've read it!
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