Это видео недоступно.
Сожалеем об этом.
Why Common Core math problems look so weird
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2015
- There's a pretty good reason why parents are confused by their kids' new math homework.
Read more about Common Core on vox.com: www.vox.com/car...
Subscribe to our channel! goo.gl/0bsAjO
Archive footage sources:
archive.org/de...
archive.org/de...
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com to get up to speed on everything from Kurdistan to the Kim Kardashian app.
Check out our full video catalog: goo.gl/IZONyE
Follow Vox on Twitter: goo.gl/XFrZ5H
Or on Facebook: goo.gl/U2g06o
Parents aren't getting frustrated just because it looks different. They're getting frustrated that their kids are getting correct answers marked wrong for not doing all the extra unnecessary steps. If the idea is to teach kids that there is more than one way to reach the answer, how can you possibly justify marking a correct answer as incorrect just because they used the "wrong" method to reach it?
+twistedblktrekie That isn't education. It's indoctrination
As a math major that was winning math contests as a kid... this is stupid.
Personally, I discovered math as a little kid watching my older brother doing homework in a third world country. So when i was 3 or 4, he was already doing calculus. The way I see numbers are similar to number lines, but I have a form of synesthesia for numbers that I'm told is quite common. Numbers divisible by 2,3,4,5 and 12 all look different to me and have different edges and textures.
I'm not sure that helps. But having to follow steps (not these, but different ones) really held me back in junior high years because I was so far ahead of the rest of the class. I truly detested math for those three years and that's why my parents made me do math contests so I could actually enjoy it for once.
In university, i actually had to start doing my homework, so it was really different to actually go through some of the steps, but it was far better in my opinion to discover my own steps and derive formulas than to follow someone else's rational.
> Do you know if your synesthesia is inherited?
Not at all, my family thinks I'm weird.
> Do you know if your synesthesia gives you a higher IQ? When you see a system of equations, do you see graphical representations when you look at them? Are you able to look at things like that and "see" the answers -- like in your head, or do you actually have to solve them like "normal" people?
I really don't think so. There's a few engineering profs in my family and they're all free of synesthesia. But we are a more mathematically-inclined family (on both sides). I can't solve things in my head, but i have developed intuition by doing a lot of math about how to go about it, but that takes years of experience. I think I developed synesthesia simply by learning math very early. Like I said, I was watching my brother do calculus and algebra when I was 3 and 4. And then he would explain it like a 3 or 4 year old could understand when i didn't understand the pattern. I was basically doing puzzles. I was also in a country at war at the time (Iran) and well, trade sanctions meant very few toys. So you develop your own hobbies.
To be honest, I can get a good idea how to solve a 3x3 by doing elimination in head. But I have to warn you, it most def. did not start like this. And I really struggle with something like a 7x7 set of formulas or dynamical equations because I don't find them as intuitive. i follow steps to a certain extent. I really think this is from practice and not some weird genetic or god-given gift. I think our environment kind of pushes us to find certain things really cool and then we end up investing a lot of time into it. My mother, for example, was also the math wizz in her family. It never occurred to me (a female) that women shouldn't be good at math like it did for some of my friends. I thought they had some sort of deep dislike of the topic. (which they likely did!)
To be fair, since you probably haven't had advanced math classes, let me, as a math major, explain why this may be so.
One of the huge outrages I've seen is a kid who got a problem wrong because he made a grid of 3 by 5 to solve 5 X 3, instead of 5 by 3. Now, I thought this was super silly when I read it first, but upon further examination, the farther a student goes in math, they will potentially start running into different situations where the X operator is NOT commutative (i.e. A X B = B X A). The best example of this is in matrix algebra. Thus, it appears that teachers are attempting to impart on their students the importance of ordering before they learn things like the commutative property. It's literally all about teaching them to structure their simple problem in a way that will allow them to remain structured correctly when more difficult problems come along.
Wait so common core math is just mental math but you put all of the steps you'd do mentally on paper?
Common Core makes it seem like you're actually creating an understanding of what you're doing while traditional math, the way I was taught, was a lot of memorization and no real understanding of what I was actually doing. 6x8 = 48. Why? I don't know, because that's what 6x8 is.
What QueeferSutherland said. It makes you think about why you are doing what you are doing.
Old math is good for doing up to elementary level math. Past trigonometry and college Algebra, you need to have a different mental understanding of what you are doing. It also helps you quickly break down problems and solve them logically.
An example I saw on facebook earlier from a parent complaining about having to help their child do:
7(1/3) + 5(4/5) = ?
Old school doesn't teach an efficient way to solve this problem. Parents never memorized this problem, so it doesn't make sense to them. Common core teaches children to break it down which will serve them better on in life.
You may think that this is a good thing but actually it is not. In order to do the calculations you have to have understood the process, at least with traditional methods and not the simple plug and play maths we have seen in the last decade, so this CC stuff is an unnecessary step. Arguably it is soaking up time as students laboriously follow these steps when they could be consolidating their knowledge by doing a larger number of practice problems.
Take a look at the countries which excel in mathematics, they nearly all use traditional methods. Common Core was put in place without any real testing or evidence that it would be effective, we are basically experimenting on an entire generation of kids! Meanwhile the traditional methods used in many countries are producing students with an excellent understanding of mathematics.
I'm a little confused as to what you consider to be traditional as you seem to believe that traditional learning doesn't involve an understanding of the key concepts or being able to apply ones knowledge in a variety of situations. I was taught in the traditional manner and being able to understand the why was just as important as understanding the how. It wasn't a simple series of procedures, each step was detailed every now and then to ensure we understood why something worked, then we would be exposed to different problems and work through them.
The most interesting part about your comment was that you don't like the standards, does this not ring alarm bells in your head? You may be able to work effectively when shackled to the standards but there are many teachers who lack this ability and if you dislike the standards then why the hell would you support them?
I live in Europe and we've been taught that 6x8 = 48 because 6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6 = 48 . We didn't need some whacky drawings to understand a simple concept of adding the number six 8 times
My teacher taught everyone the common way. And he ends the class is "If you find another way, i'll give you bonus scores."
Thus provoking students to invent their own method to answer. As long ans the end is right.
Then you have a good teacher.
thank god i got a teacher like that or else i would be flushed like a feather in engineering, and yes, you don't need this "common core" thing
We need more teachers like this
My teacher did the same thing and noone did the extra work
Lol
The "counting up" method was traditionally taught to cashiers when counting out change.
Huh. Interesting.
At least in my country most cashiers do that, and usually they’ll say it out loud.
Yes thats right
@@agme8045 where?
@@agme8045 as a electrical engineering major, when I was working as a cashier the counting up method was how I counted change. I also do it out loud to prevent mistakes.
I'm an engineer/mba with 2 kids going through common core math and I can say first hand that schools are not handling this problem well at all. The main mistake they're making is that they don't send home any materials to explain to parents how to solve common core problems, which makes it difficult if not impossible to help with homework.
Try some random common core problems yourself and then tell me that it makes clear intuitive sense.
You could be right, and you made some good points but I think I will always instinctualy despise it when I see my little sister struggling to solve a problem that she could easily solve if allowed to chose the more common method
twistedblktrekie This is the issue. Introducing CC gives the same problem as before but it's just reversed. The same kids who had issues the old way will probably now thrive while the kids who would have thrived using the old system, will probably now have issues.
Schools should teach BOTH ways and let students decide how they want to solve the equations.
twistedblktrekie As long as they teach both methods, I see no problem with it.
No she fully understands the concept 100%. The issue is how it is basically like solving a riddle where you don't know the rules. The questions are phrased ridiculously and the methods they teach make no sense.
The CONCEPT is fine.. An attempt to demystify numbers and math in general.
The IMPLEMENTATION needs work.
+Jaime Lannister The problem is, it's the US that's attempting to do the implementing.
+gredangeo I think i would have prefered an entire educational overhaul rather than this common core stuff..
We all understand that our schools basically suck, now how can we fix them. Common core strikes me as slightly different teaching methods, instead of the total transformation that is actually required.
We need a way to keep kids engaged while learning, to make learning an enjoyable concept instead of a chore. Once you get kids WANTING to learn, the method that you choose to teach them with is a great deal less important.
And this whole, grading teachers on test scores is the absolutely dumbest thing ever. Teachers are not robots and should not be treated as such, how many A-Students a teacher has is not indicative of a teachers skill. But if you tell a teacher they will get more cash/promotions based on how good their class is doing, then you can expect them to put THEIR careers and needs over the children and that's a worst case scenario for everyone.
+Jaime Lannister THANK YOU!!! Someone finally understands!!!
As an adult, I intuitively use this method to teach myself maths in the real world - something my years of schooling didn't. Learning to "sense" numbers seems intuitive.
But I think people want to feel more involved in what their children do at school, and CC, however great, feels like just another edict from the Grand Poobahs of Education (ignore the men behind the curtain!)
Ex-teacher here. (Special Ed, 6-8 grades, 13 years.) I never had a new set of textbooks to work with, my math texts were at least 5 years old at each school. My last teaching job had no math text at all - I had to make it all up from scratch with worksheets/copies.
But the real challenges of education is to somehow connect the community to the school. Of the 20-30 students in my classroom, I might meet only 5-7 parents during a school year (maybe a couple more at Parent/Teacher meets). Most parents seem to think of school as convenient, free babysitting.
In the end, I found the experience of schools troubling. I came to believe the whole thing is pretty weird - that people just send their kids off to an institution every day where their kids spend 5-6 hours sitting on their butts in crowded rooms with one adult, doing pencil and paperwork and being "taught" curriculum created by educational textbook companies.
Where or when does the local community, the parents and families, get to provide input or ideas or anything at all about what happens in the schools where they send their children?
"There's also another method called the counting-up method"
It's literally the same thing.
Yeah. She just used a number line in one example but not in the other.
As a student who has been taught with both methods I found the traditional method much easier than common core
To be honest, I find some common core methods to work better when doing math mentally especially the multiplication..
Im in 8th grade (but I’m taking Sophmore Geometry because I’m 2 years ahead in math), and I just hate cc so much. I learned traditional from Kinder-2 and the rest was cc. Caasp (California state tests) are also very stupid and pointless, before then we took “star” tests and they were so easy to understand
I struggle with mental math, but when allowed to write problems out i scored in the top 5% of my school. I struggle wrapping my head around abstract things like what an equation actually means in tangible reality. CC is like looking at number soup to me. factor in dyslexia and its a real struggle. .
I have an excellent memory though so it's just more functional for me to memorize a formula. I need a direct route in my mind or im lost in the fog. I was the kid who was called disruptive for asking questions though so i kind of just gave up on traditional schooling, when teachers refused to answer my questions i refused to do the work and just read books instead. Maybe im just not a great student? *shrug*
Exotic Food Kid i think that is goal not to be easy...
Amen
that isn't a bump in the road it's a stair case
i understand but this math is focussed on explaining work more than it is getting the answer and there is no point in taxes billing or stuff like that it teaches nothing u can use later in life with that because u don't need to write out a graph or array and explaining the problem is more difficult to kids then actually answering a problem u shouldn't ask a question if u don't want an answer so i think its completely unesesarry
If you are a good teacher, you would be able to explain it to children without all the crap. I am assuming you are a millennial and learned this nonsense in college from other left-wing nut-job professors. This does not mean it is the best way to teach.
In the 80's children were being taught to learn to read by memorizing words and it only made it harder on those children. Here is why I say that. I have two boys, one taught by memorizing and the other taught by phonics. The one taught with memorization struggled all through school because reading new words was difficult. The one taught phonics was light years ahead and school was almost too easy.
This method of teaching was abandoned due to the fact it was actually slowing down the progress of the students. This will eventually prove to be case with common core math. As a teacher you need to teach the facts, explain the facts and leave the spacial reality to the parents.
Im not american im english we have the same problem but now we are going to the european version of marking using numbers instead of a main letter like in the us followed by a 1,2 or 3
I understand that easily my math was looking at a grade c but i managed to get a A due to the teacher i had in the final months. Its also how the teach younger teachers these dads wanting to more a army of robots that deveate from the will troden (walked on) path. Any spelling errors i appologise im dyslexic so i cant really see them
stairway to hell
Actually, that is exactly how I multiply in my head. 6X8 I would think of it as ( 5+1)8= 40+8=48 Because you are figuring it out, not just memorizing.
Same. I don't think it's a terrible idea to start showing kids how to understand numbers and how to manipulate them rather than just memorizing or taking a short cut. Obviously everyone is still going to use the short hand method in practical use, but this instruction of the flexibility of numbers could prepare kids who end up wanting to go into higher level maths and the hard sciences.
I never managed to properly get my times tables memorised, so I take what I can remember and add on bits to get the rest of the way. Say I need 7*8, but the closest I can remember at the moment is 5*8, so take that and add 16 to get 56.
Marina Doshkevich I used to do that with long subtraction problems
How I remember;
Well, 8×3=24 right? So, we know that 3×2=6, So I do; 24+24.
If there's anything good about common core is that it translates well to mental math. Unfortunately most students don't ever make this connection because they are punished under common core for using mental math.
My niece lived in Germany for her first two years of elementary school. In second grade there she began learning simple multiplication the old fashioned way and she did really well and was passing with flying colors, in her third grade year she moved back to the US and infinities to learn multiplication. Suddenly she was struggling in math and had to resubmit all her homework because she couldn't do the problems. I was visiting for thanksgiving and I offered to help her with her multiplication and I showed her how to do it the old fashioned way (I didn't know she was learning common core or what the common core method was), suddenly she could multiply 3 and 4 digit numbers together, when she had just struggled with multiplying 2 digit numbers. She told me that she can't turn in papers showing that method and she showed me the common core version. I couldn't get it. There were boxes and brackets and circles, all to multiply small numbers.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I cannot stand common core. It doesn't confuse me but I find it completely unnecessary.
Yeah it's kind of like the caveman who would write the lines on the cave wall to represent the number one. And then five lines to represent the number five so basically instead of becoming more sophisticated as a civilization we went back to hydro glyphics and figures and representations. The number five is all-encompassing and we do not need five hash marks anymore but apparently we got to go back to a slower and less efficient method these methods are terrible and have been proven National failures statistically across the United States students of common core or flunking and not prepared for college. And in the professional world of mathematicians and accountants disrespect all of this Common Core stuff because it doesn't work and it's backwards and inefficient and it is not used by Professionals in the real world
@@thebabies3485 it's about understanding the how not the why. Concepts are far more important. You are concentrating on the answer not the question.
@Ylviste that's why they are concepts. I'm not sure I understand your statement. If I say they are teaching them the "how" that means they are in the process of learning the how. Of course one can't know or understand something they have never been taught?
@@naacosta78 So both common core and traditional mathematics fail the same basic test (for the same reason). Too much how, and not enough why.
Maybe I was lucky that the school I went to always split its maths questions into four sections: concepts (yes, to pass the subject, you had to be able to explain why we did things and how they worked - otherwise you could fail even if you did the other sections perfectly - yes an F and three A's could mean an F overall), application of concepts (mechanical ability with the examination material - what maths students and teachers always seem to focus on), simple problem solving (using the techniques in ways that are common or practiced) and complex problem solving (where the problems are novel in some way and not previously trained from the set texts).
It was amazing how many students could ace the application and simple problem solving, but fell apart completely on conceptual understanding and complex problem solving, because they couldn't just memorise the problems in the textbook.
In Taiwan we learned math by breaking down the number, abacus was used when I was a child. By the time I moved here to the US in middle school, I found my math was at least 4 years ahead of other kids, ahead even to my teacher. And I wasn't even a good student back in Taiwan, I ranked dead last in my school.
Taiwan number 1 🇹🇼
Wow, just Wow !
Real China*
Abaci should be used to teach kids math everywhere IMO, it's visual, and it's tangible
I haven’t used the abacus in a while, but it was a method 👍
I think Common Core's biggest problem is that it hasn't been taught to parents. Had there been more resources for parents to learn Common Core's methods for solving problems, parents wouldn't be stressing out over not being able to help their child on their math homework.
This is at least the case for me. I'm not a parent, but I have friends who are parents. I've watched their kids for them and been unable to do anything but shrug and do it the old way while trying to help them with math.
+twistedblktrekie I'm glad that it helped you, but as a student who has always been an okay student in math the common core made it more difficult to me because of the wording in the questions, sometimes they are asking me to do something so specific that I find it unnecessary. So I skip some parts, I write how I got the answer, and put the answer. Some teachers have given me an F for not doing a part of it even though I did the whole equation and got the answer right. Hell even my favorite teacher got fired because he thought the common core was making students be more confused, which many of my classmates who are really good at math are failing because of this.
But anyways I'm glad that at least it's helping some people like you on understanding math
This is exactly why Common Core is necessary - it will teach the next generation how to actually reason with numbers, as opposed to countless generations past who have been merely memorizing algorithms. And if parents want to help their kids with it, there's nothing stopping them from learning common core methods themselves.
+twistedblktrekie yeah I'm a visual learner. I guess thats the reason why i have a hard time with the CC.
I did better on my Calc 3 final than I did on any of the other tests. Got a 100, in fact. Hardest exam I ever took in my life!
It is literally free online. You can go, learn common core, and help your child at any time.....
isn't this number sense shit something most people figure out in middle or high school when learning math the non common core way?? pretty sure thats how i learned ??
+screams except that alot of people never gain any number sense and are stuck really only understanding how to do basic arithmetic but not understanding how any of it works and therefore not being able to apply simple skills as math gets harder and more abstract
+screams No. Most people never come to any level of intuition about math at all. We're 22nd out of 24 developed countries when it comes to adults knowing math. How could our old way of teaching possibly be adequate if that is the result? I have no idea if Common Core is successful at what it wants to do, and I'd be curious to know what the countries who score in the top 5 are doing in terms of teaching, but it's very clear at least that the old way is a failure.
i guess common core isn't a problem, but maybe if they taught it at middle school instead of elementary school, it'd be better
+Dustin Rodriguez I used to think it was a teaching issue. As a teacher now myself I see where the problem exists: the majority of parents do not have any interest in their child's education. For many of my kids, their homes are often chaotic and some have abusive and neglectful parents or parent. I work with kids that live in a poor urban area so I am going to be biased. Even working with a student one-on-one for a considerable amount of time, often the best I can achieve is an improvement in behavior. Even in more well-to-do suburban environments we often see parents more interested in placating their kids rather than being deeply involved in their education.
+screams No, people who were good at math figured it out. Most people just struggled along following steps they didn't understand and stopped taking math as soon as they were allowed to do so.
People who were good at math should also remember how frustrating they found it when teachers asked them to show their work, and the student said "there isn't any - that's just the answer". Because people don't all solve math the same way.
As pointed out in the video, schools are still supposed to teach the old way (sort of - they teach it for subtraction and addition, but I don't think they make kids memorize multiplication tables or do long division anymore). This is simply a new way to solve the problem. One kid might excel at one method, while another kid excels at a different method. Each may well struggle at the portion tailored to the other.
But that's also not a problem. Failure is something kids should also learn to deal with.
But borrowing DOES make sense, and I understand why we do it! /frustrated math nerd
Those don't seem at all related to subtraction. Borrowing makes more sense. Did you ever use the blocks that showed how every ten stick had ten one cubes, and every one hundred sheet had ten ten sticks? They made borrowing seem obvious. Doing more work on a math problem is not the obvious solution and didn't make sense to me when I was learning subtraction, nor does it make sense now. (Also, how does 333 - 87 = 13 ?)
I hate that we have to learn about this using a number line when the teacher can easily explain it. Each place to the left of it is 10 times greater so if you subtract one from the number left you to have to add 10 to the number.
I'm on your side. I hate the new math. I wish it would stay the old simple way.
The root problem in math education is that many teachers only show their students the steps of a process (algorithm or formula) but never explain how/why the process works or makes sense. The teachers themselves may have never understood the process (algorithm or formula) at a deep level and are just going through the motions.
it does
you borrow from the left means you borrow from the 10 or the 100
if you borrow from the 100 it was be +100 on the ones place
I remember several kids in middle school myself included coming up with our own rules (often faster processes) to correctly solve math equations, when the teachers would see the results they would become upset, unnerved, or sometimes angry because we were not following the rules as presented within the text. This in turn frustrated and often discouraged the students. Fluidity over Rigidity is always the best path.
Common core is essentially a broken way to fix something that is indeed broken. Yes, kids do need to understand why the problems work the way they do. But this way of teaching ends up being counter-intuitive. Because if you have a kid who answers the problem 5x6 as 30, they're correct, but a teacher might mark them as incorrect because they didn't do all of these steps to show why 5x6 is 30. That's where the problem lies. Also, when I was a kid, I did have to take a lot of steps for simple math, sometimes. Like, I might actually draw 5 dots 6 times to understand that 5x6 = 30. (Or the really awesome technique I learned which is draw five lines, cross them with six lines, and count the intersections.) But doing all of these steps, I believe, would've confused me further. I already struggled with math as a child. I don't have kids, yet, but I am scared for any future child I have to struggle in math because they know what 5x6 is but don't know how to "prove" it. When I got older, I did start to understand how math works. I'm not exactly sure what happened, but I started to see numbers as pieces of a whole, or whatever, I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well. But, essentially, I understand why my numbers are what they are, even enough that with complicated formulas, I can tell if the answer I calculated is wrong because I understand about where it should be. I just think there is a better way to help kids understand how their math works than to make them take extra steps that can cause further confusion. Believe me, if this had been my math in elementary school, I would've done badly.
Well said!
I don’t think with basic math it’s a problem because most people by 4th grade at the latest know that 6x5 is just 6 added together 5 times or 5 added together 6 times
It comes with common sense and understanding when you get older
And the fact that there a people who including me who are saying that all common core is is our thought process on paper should tell people that having kids do that on paper is unnecessary and potentially confusing to children and adults
Now more complex math is where I understand why some common core standards are in place but basic with basic elementary math it doesn’t really make sense as to why it’s there because Everyone gets that understanding as they grow and doesn’t slow down class
I have never learned Common core Math, and yet i do math in the "Common core" way inside my head.
I guess you're not American.
@namya jama you just commented on a 3 year old comment dude?
When I do math in my head, I look for an easy "shortcut" to make the math easier. To take the example given in the video of 243 - 87, I first subtract 100 and then add 13 to get 156 because I can mentally break down 87 into 100 - 13. But this isn't really following a "Common Core way" because it's simply a matter of intuitively understanding how numbers work. On the other hand, if I were given two eight digit numbers to subtract which is more than my brain can handle using mental math alone, I would write it out the old fashioned way because the common core method is too convoluted to use here. My philosophy is that basic math should be taught the old fashioned way and once students have mastered that, then they should be taught how to quickly do simple calculations in their head using mental math.
My problem in math is that they force you to learn to do it a certain way. There is always multiple ways to solve a problem and some people need to use a different way than the standard is making them learn. Forcing everyone to think the same way makes us know what we are doing, but not why. It’s the same thing if you give students a calculator for algebra. They don’t know how to do it, they just understand it and find out how to punch it into the calculator.
The best option for learning math I've seen is going through these steps:
1: Showing a real example of why learning this thing is actually useful
2: Gradually introducing the whole concept along with some examples, proving walk-through solutions for a few problems
3: Have a test similar to most of the problems you had before, but with no hints or anything like that
4: Have a second test that introduces problems much harder than you have seen before with problems that are plausible for a real situation
(neither tests required an explanation as to how you did it, but it would have been impossible without understanding the question and why you need to do what you need to do in order to solve it)
I saw this method when taking this calculus class www.edx.org/course/calculus-1a-differentiation (A class from MIT that they uploaded to this site with a virtual form of the tests, anyone can take it for free, it's not currently running but it will probably start again at the beginning of the next "school year") and I think it would have been a lot been taught more of the simpler stuff here. I agree that this common core stuff isn't really much better, it's still just forcing you to memorize a specific method so you can go through and fill out the answers to a giant sheet of formulas...
@@phillipmccrevice9128 you're clearly not a genius.
But this common core thing doesn't fix that either, you're forced to round to the nearest multiples of 10, then add the hundreds, then add what's left. It also force you to do smaller then bigger, what if I don't want to do that? What if I want to just add 200 from the beginning, then smaller numbers later?
It looks weird because you're seeing it from the other side of the wall. I used to think it looked stupid and over the top until I became a Maths tutor. When teaching a child maths before they truly understand what numbers are and how they relate to each other, telling them to simply put numbers on top of each other and follow the steps to make a new number gives them very little understanding. Some kids will see the relations without all the added breakdowns but you'd be surprised at how many will simply chug along doing the usual steps and never really get the process of what they're doing. The issue with this is that once you forget just one of the steps involved in getting from a to b, you will be completely unable to solve the problem. If someone is taught to understand how numbers form and work together, it doesn't matter if they forget the one way they were taught to solve a particular problem; they will be able to reach the correct solution even if it does take longer than using the perfected method.
this!!!!!!!!!
Funny how you compare two different scenarios: one where kids forget what they were taught with one where kids don't forget what they were taught.
A proper comparison would be one where kids not only forget what the "chugging along" method taught them, but also forget what the CC method taught them.
stonytina01 will-not-be-banned cc doesn’t teach memorization it teaches conceptual understanding. Kind of like in physics. We don’t memorize formulas or laws. We understand them on a conceptual level where we can’t really forget it. Anyone can forget the universal wave equation during summer or even over the course of one test to the next but when you understand how wavelength and velocity and frequency relate to one another you’re not likely to forget unless taking years off of school.
Sure.....but you should NEVER deduce points because the answer was obtained a different way. THAT is wrong. If you het the answer, you get the answer...PERIOD
twistedblktrekie Oh...in my opinion its wrong. We should encourage free thinking.
twistedblktrekie That's pathetic, people are pathetic
twistedblktrekie You're right, so sad.
This is only to help explain certain things in mathematics. It isn't a strategy teachers teach children and expect them to use it for the rest of their lives. It's just a day or 2 of practice to understand why they use the borrowing method in subtraction. Yes they already know how to do it but the teacher is explaining WHY.
There are also things in higher mathematics like finding the solution where there are 2 methods of solving it elimination and substitution. Both are different but easier to use under different circumstances. If you are given a sheet to practice substitution but you use elimination you are most likely not going to get any credit. Sure you may get the right answer but you need to learn how to elaborate and know how to find different methods to finding the answer and why you did what you did.
This is coming from a student that is 3 years ahead of normal classes and currently taking AP Calculus. Without common core and government regulated education this stuff would be so confusing! A few of my teachers were really bad as well making me glad they just didn't do whatever they wanted with our class and had to follow some guidelines.
M Naveh
If the question says a specific way of calculating has to be used, that this way of calculating has to be used. If a question says the problem has to be solved graphically, then any other method of solving it does not give full points.
Of course, the problem in this special case is that the correct solution has not been taught.
This is the first time I've actually seen it explained, and I'm surprised at how simple it is. I thought it would be more complicated. Seems like parents just getting upset because its different from how they were taught. If this is taught alongside the easier way I can't see any problem with it.
It looks tedious, time consuming, and like there is extra math.
Your just a troll
luke daniels It is not just parents getting upset, no one likes this method. It is completely unnecessary for learning math or any subject. I am a high school student and I am glad to say they have taken Common Core away because they realized how stupid it is.
Fashion Diva You need better grammar skills! It's not "your"; it is "you're". And also you meant "allowed", and not "aloud". You also forgot the apostrophe in "my friend's dad". When I went to school, we were taught to think critically and write creatively, but we weren't allowed (not aloud) to be so sloppy with our grammar!
I don't care carfreelori!! I'm sorry we live in a world with auto correct!! Did it hurt you for me to spell some things wrong?? No!! So back off. I don't care even the slightest on what your school taught you.
I get it, but it should be taught later and as a separate unit. I can see how it can show that the regular subtraction method doesn’t show how it specifically works and that the new methods show subtraction better, but it’s just executed terribly.
it should be taught first and then the algorithm taught later so you understand why the algorithm worked
It should be a "tips and tricks" elective course. Nothing more.
I don’t see how the “borrowing method doesn’t show you how it works.” It does. Your taking ten items and adding them to the ones places (or 100 and adding them to tens place etc)
This is actually how I understood math even when my teachers used the old way
I Understood Old Math much better!!
Same
Dark Light Me to but now they presented in a different way and it is confusing, I mean why do we have to use pictures, cant we just use our minds.
my dad's the same way. And I am too.
Same
It still seems like a "one size fits all" teaching methodology, which is simply the wrong approach. Standardization leads to the inevitable outcome of the average students being catered to, and the students who are above and below average (who tend to require extra attention) getting left behind. The old-style of teaching math worked great for me because I had an intuitive sense about what was going on and understood why the heuristic approaches worked. If I were in school now being taught using the Common Core approach, I would be incredibly bored and wasting a lot of time. And children who are bored and feel like they are wasting their time will lose interest and avoid learning.
+Tracy Coxon Which is why Resource Teachers exist. They pull low kids out who need help. Meanwhile programs like Gifted and Talented, pull higher kids out and allow them to blossom.
Beyond that, Common Core also emphasizes group work, where each group is working towards the same goal but the content is differentiated between high, middle and low.
+krim7 And yet its still shit. Look at how the US's place in the world has dropped in almost all subjects. We arent getting #1 in Math #1 in Reading etc, those go to countries who actually know what they are doing.
Not really. Many countries only test the higher echelon students so the supposed low place of the US is because apples are being compared to oranges.
0:42 His error was that he used a god damn number line to solve 427-316
Imagine if he had to start from 0 lol
especially when its as simple as 127-16
My degree is in Theoretical Mathematics (about 30 years ago). This is the first time I have actually seen this "new math", but honestly, this is the way I do subtractions in my head. On paper, I just borrow.
Math major and one-time math grad student here. Me too, as to how I do subtraction in my head, but it takes a lot longer than just borrow and carry.
I don't want to mean or anything, but I think the reason I find common core so pointless is that, even when being thought the normal way, I understood math and numbers the way I would if I had been taught this way. Maybe it's just me, but I do remember in third grade when we used the "partial products method" a few times. Nobody in the class wanted to do it that way, and everyone seemed to understand the underlying principles without needing this. I do recognize that not everyone could understand it this way, and that makes sense to teach them this way. But to make millions of students unnecessarily learn in this incredibly slow and long winded fashion seems like a terrible way to do it.
Remember that statistic where the US places 27th out of 34 in math education? I'd lay odds that everyone in your 3rd grade class *didn't* understand the underlying principles, but they all said they did because they were 9 and math is boring.
Eric Smith How do you know this commenter is from the US?
Math is about developing problem solving skills, logic, understanding concepts, and most of all simplifying (i.e. being able to find the most simple / elegant solution). I.e. efficiency. Not drawing stupid unelegant pictures, or for kids memorising highly inefficient 'tricks' (that take way too long, and overcomplicate what should be incredibly simple concepts). That's why I don't trust these 'common core' methods. The only good teacher I ever had for math was an ex-military engineer, who taught me like a soldier, and now I can do advanced calc etc. Not bad for someone who sucked at math all through high school etc. I don't think the old method was good (since it never worked for me until I had a military guy teach me his military way), but neither is the new common core method.
See the comment at 2:39, that electronics engineer parent is 100% spot on, and obviously knows math better than 99% of the population. The worst part about common core is they grade you down if you don't follow bogus steps / methods etc.
opnrkqai opnrkqai
because this commenter is talking about common core and how it makes the mathematics
over-complicated. common core is ONLY IN THE U.S.
On the point of it being incredibly slow and long-winded: I know in elementary school math class seemed to drag on forever, but when I co-oped in an elementary school, grades 5 and 6 kids I worked with only had maybe 20 minutes a day of math, and most of it was spent trying to get them to pay attention in an overcrowded room. It would be more beneficial, maybe, to take more time out of the day for regular math, and to explain it more in depth for kids to understand, rather than seemingly simplifying it to a point where it becomes impossible to understand?
i was called a calculator in my class cause i do subtraction ,multiplication, addition division faster than anybody else .
today after watching the video i understood i was using common core from my birth . i didnt knew about it .
u r right
Exactly! I do math just like that and I just speed through problems. To me, that came with practice, and a LOT of it. When you handle numbers for a long time you start noticing patterns that make it easier to do math in your head, and it's great that kids in the US are learning how to do that from the get go. I just think that, over time, the exercises should get out of the paper and into the mind, with gradually increasing levels of difficulty. That would encourage students to find their own ways to do quick math and train them.
PS: I'm a high school student in Brazil and here math is not easy. I don't know what you guys have where you live, but it seems that we're quite the mathheads.
twistedblktrekie I see what you mean and sure, you should awlays need to "show your work" in tests.
The tutoring thing is real, though. Here the colleges are dominated by the wealthy because they can afford good schools that help them pass the admittance tests.
everything - to the next level the same thing happened to me
lol. ..i was just thinking the same thing. ..common core would've FIXED the core problem with math understanding in this country ..unfortunately the illogical minds think they were taught the greater logic. ..my three year old calculates at their 6th and 7th grade level (i have the video to prove it)...
Even using lines paper properly has become a thing of the past apparently.
twistedblktrekie you responded to the wrong comment
It took her 18 seconds!!!!! to do one fkg simple math problem that takes me 1.3 seconds the old way: In my head!! SMH
1:25 - 1:43 🤦♀️
I understand the number line's logic: it shows quite easily how number can be added together by "moving" them to the right a certain amount of steps. It makes negative numbers even easier to understand, as numbers that exist on the left side of the number line, and "move" numbers to the left in addition.
So in other words, making me waste MORE time in an exam.
Nice.
Mentally I do that kind of addition/subtraction and I find it much easier than getting the calculator. Not everyone can do it though but if you deal with numbers (school, job, etc) it's a nice skill to have.
Also, it impresses people for some reason.
these kids are in for a shock when they enter the job market
Well no! They just want you to buy more apples! :-)
+twistedblktrekie or you could just borrow and understand , the answer is what it is because you are taking that much away from a number than literally putting more numbers in it to make us over think and crap .
king, you say that as a guy who does not understand math...
Hi Americans. I'm from South Korea. We rank #1 in math. If you want to be better at math the answer is very simple. *Just follow what other countries that are better than you at math do.*
And what South Koreans should do if they want to get better at maths?
going into a non common-core school, it felt as if everything was a lot simpler. I felt like I was missing out on so much!
1:19 ... No it's pretty clear why it works. Borrowing one from the next place value is just adding ten times this place value so you can get a positive digit. Why wouldn't you understand that?
The counting up method is only efficient for numbers very close to a round number: For example, 600-349 = 251
2:45 The picture you showed earlier is a parent with a bachelor's degree in engineering; I'm sure he's more than qualified to teach this subject than an elementary school teacher teaching students a stupid "number hopping" algorithm. Plus, my middle school math teacher was on the panel that designed these standards, and he can attest that math professors just put in random things they were teaching in universities that they thought would be useful in elementary school arithmetic. (For example, one math professor put in plenty of geometric transformations into the curriculum, which is a relatively complex subject. Naturally, it was very watered down and now modern math textbooks are just picture books.)
twistedblktrekie, math and engineering require a lot more creative thinking than that. You can't get an engineering degree if you're only good at memorizing algorithms. The diagrams are confusing and bizarre. Even if the traditional method of addition and subtraction doesn't really demonstrate how those operations work, many more of the kids learning this in elementary school will become accountants and cashiers than will join Princeton's abstract math department. For those that do pursue math, we have classes like Number Theory that re-teach these elementary concepts in a less machine-like format. For everyone else, it's more useful to show the fastest algorithm, which is more often borrowing than number hopping.
twistedblktrekie, while math and humanities both require creative thinking, memorization is much more important in the former than the latter. The reason is simple. In analysis of literature, you may study a short sonnet by Shakespeare first and then years later read Tolstoy's War and Peace in its entirety. When you read War and Peace, you don't need to apply what the sonnet taught you on War and Peace. You may use the same deductive reasoning and inference skills to understand both pieces but it isn't like math where you need to memorize basic arithmetic operations in order to efficiently perform, say, matrix multiplication. In math, every concept builds on the previous, so it's necessary to know quick algorithms.
"How useful any algorithm is depends on the person using it."
In some cases this might be true, but most of the time in math the best algorithm depends on the problem, not the person solving it. The diagram is useful as an example in a textbook but to require students to draw it or think it every time they do a basic arithmetic operation would slow them down a lot. And as I've mentioned before, many more of these students will become accountants than mathematicians or scientists.
twistedblktrekie, well there are no quick shortcuts to acting unlike arithmetic. Acting requires a deep understanding of your character that math does not(at least until you get into theoretical math.) I agree there are different practical methods to doing these problems, but the conceptual math Common Core tries to grasp is not one of those methods. Jumping from 87 to 90 to 100 to 200 to 243 is not efficient at all. What is efficient is 243-87=246-90=156, or alternatively the traditional method of borrowing. Ultimately this depends on the math teacher and we have college professors and PhD's in education write a curriculum that will be taught by elementary school teachers.
as a student common core is complete and utter trash. I get in trouble for not showing my wrk when all the anwsers are right
twistedblktrekie this is happening while im working in class with a teacher right behind me and teelling everyone not to use a calculator
Same. I don't even show my work and the answers are correct and I still get points taken off.
That's not just a Common Core thing. I got in trouble for the same crap back in the 90s. If I didn't show where I borrowed or carried the 1 or whatever, I got either half credit or no credit.
It was the same way 30 years ago. If you didn't show work you got it wrong. I hated that because I could do rather large math problems in my head. After years of being forced to show work I eventually lost that skill. The neurons died due to lack of use. Stupid dumbed downed education makes people stupid.
King$upreme That makes no sense.
In my school we were forced to use 5 different methods for subtraction, addition, and multiplication. It was confusing to say the least.
So common core is basically making a single simple math problem into multiple simple maths problems....it just doesn't add up.
I understand common core math, however i believe that number sense is not something that should be taught, but instead a by product of using numbers and math consistently. I developed my number sense through 10+ years of math and it is very useful, but forcing it is not good. Not everyone thinks in that way.
Kevin Chen yes i completely agree! There's a difference between knowing HOW TO do math and UNDERSTANDING math. Understanding math are useful but in my opinion not to everyone. I don't think forcing kids to understand this, is a good idea. I think they should understand it by themselves, if they wanted to.
Also isn't it strange how country with "better" education system. Have a more simple and "relaxed" education system. It seems country that has bad education are instead the one making these weird ways to study that is supposedly better.
Sorry for my bad english. I'm from Indonesia and in my country we have a similar problem. Where we have this weird curriculum that forced us to learn in unnecessary and unpractical way. And in my opinion it's not helping anyone instead it's just becoming a burden to students.
I am learning under common core and learned “number sense” in three to four years
I agree but we do need to keep in mind that the way we use math has shifted al very far way. Calculations aren't that important anymore and logic and problem solving have become the main focus. Anyone has a calculator in there pocked and can easily calculate 354 -120. The reason we teach kids this is because it will be important for high school and than college math. As a side job I tutor high school math and physics and the number one problem people have is that they don't understand what they are doing but where just thought a certain way to act for a certain situation. But if the situation is slightly different people don't understand. For example I say. " I buy 5 apples for 5 dollar. How much is one appel" everyone knows what to do 5/5 = 1 but when I give people this problem."5=5x" solve X people might not understand because they are not aware they they divided by 5 on both sides of the equation. That is way teaching number sense is important and the answer is not.
Kycas van Wijk what grade were the kids in? *5=5x* is something I would never expect an elementary student to be able to solve, and it's a very simple algebra equation that anyone in high school should be able to solve very easily.
*It* *took* *you* *10* *years.* The average person let alone a kid can't minus 543 from 149 in their head.
However, if they *add* *1* and *50* to go up to 200, then all you have to do is *add* *243* to go up to *543* .
1+50+243 vs borrow & cross out in your head and remembering number's new. I can't borrow and cross out in my head but I do number sense quickly.
why don't they just look at what south korea and japan are doing and do that lol
+Emmanuel Diaz Because both American parents and children would be incapable of doing what the Koreans and Japanese are doing. Do you have any idea of what the schedule of an average Korean High school student looks like? You probably don't want to know, you'd have nightmares. Most of them have private courses after their School days, which are ,by the way, longer than American school days. The same attitude is reflected in their adult life. Japanese for example, are notorious for their super long work hours, most of which is unpaid overtime. Most Americans would never be capable of putting that kind of efforts into their work or studies, because America is a country based on entertainment and individuality, where as Japan is based on a strong work culture and the cult of perfection.
yeah because with all those teen suicides, their education system must be excellent and not over demanding...
+Emmanuel Diaz Not sure about South Korea, but probably the main reason Japan ranks high is because almost all high schools have entrance exams. To prepare for these exams, many middle school kids spend after school hours studying at a prep school. In addition, colleges also have entrance exams, so a pretty high percentage of high school seniors spend the whole year preparing.
+Emmanuel Diaz Because the same people who're screaming for "better education" (more money more money more money more money) would have fits and start screaming "RAAAAACIIIISSST!!!!" if you seriously proposed any part of European or East Asian education systems. Anything except paying teachers more, of course.
www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2015/02/15/issues/spare-a-thought-for-the-junior-high-students-going-through-exam-hell/#.VqNPJfkrJD8
president comacho He is talking about the fact that Asian education is heavily based on performance as in you can't progress passed junior high without very high grades. Which means poor people (who tend to do very bad at school) would have even less of an academic future than they do in our current western system. And we all know that ethnic minorities are over represented in the lower economic class, so the fact that their kids wouldn't be accepted in any school, would have those minorities scream racism.
Asian style education is 6 days of school per week, 9 hours a day, plus weekend and summer private courses, as well as evening courses during the weeks preceding entry exams and final exams. All because they need super high grades to even be accepted in a school, or university program, or a good job once their education is done. East-Asians (and especially Japanese) are very anal about perfection. If you are "average" you're a fucking *failure*. No wonder why they got the highest suicide rate in the world.
This is how I eventually came to understand math, but after many years of working with intense math, physics, and chemistry classes, and in my everyday life.
fast foward to 2021 and 4 states have rightly abandoned common core math while the rest have abandoned educating all together to focus on producing social media influencers
The main reason that US schools are behind isn't lack of funding, or bad teachers, or stupid students (or fake ADD diagnosis's). The main problem is lack of parental participation. Study after study has shown that kids who have parents that help with homework and are active in the local school perform better. So our solution is to create an overly complex system of math that parents cant understand causing frustration. This intern makes the parents LESS inclined to participate in their child's schooling... The utter lack of logic in this countries bureaucracy is astounding!
I agree. Parents are now going to have to learn how to use this new math. What if the parent is working class & does not have the time? This may cause stress in the household & unfairness
Schools are for the children, and this is an easier method once it's understood. It is not designed for the parent to get involved, it's for the kid to do better math. you can't tackle all the country's problems with education with this method. there is no sure fire way to get parents involved because each person's demographic varies so widely from school to school. this is why getting parents involved is a problem left to each school individually, and this is why any legislation on a countrywide level would fail. for you to think that Common Core is a solution to the problem of parental participation is kind of laughable. YOUR lack of logic is astounding.
+Ryan Lawson - I wonder why the best technical colleges say this method of teaching does not properly prepare children for more than a community college degree? Trying to understand this
Because common core is meant for mental math. You can't do higher math in your head. Therefore common core is not meant for the higher math required for those degrees
YES you can do higher level math in your HEAD if you're taught correctly. I have a BS and 20+ years of experience teaching Mathematics. A few questions for your Ryan: Are you over 30 years of age? Do you have a BS degree from a college? Have you taken Calculus 1 or 2 and received an A?
I'm betting your answers to each of these questions is NO. Therefore your SILLY OPINION on common core is MEANINGLESS.
For example, if you do not have the three criteria memorized for determining whether a function is continuous at a particular point, you will struggle finding limits of piecewise functions and understanding different types of continuities. On a simpler level, if you do not have your MULTIPLICATION tables memorized, how can you find the LCD so you can add/subtract fractions with different denominators? If you don't have your rules of divisibility memorized how you can you factor, solve and graph quadratic functions?
Let's see if you can solve a simple quadratic in less than 25 sec.
x^2 - 10x -96 = 0
How is common core going to help you MEMORIZE the factors of 96????????
The problem is not common core math, is forcing parents that haven't been to school in years to be teachers. Homework is the problem.
Homework is just practicing what you learned in class. In a perfect world you don't have 25+ students per teacher and kids can get the 1 on 1 time they need to understand the lesson. Homework isn't the problem, it's a lack of educational funding.
I like your way of thinking!
That's like saying winning the lottery is necessary. It helps, but it shouldn't be expected from everyone.
I'm saying having parents who help is great, just like getting a small loan of a million dollars from your father is also really useful! But some children do not have this advantage. Parents of poor children need to take multiple jobs. Parents of poor children had poor education themelves and are not fit to teach. Parents of poor children die young.
Your mentality is classic conservative "lazy poors" logic. Think of the children, not the parents, and you will see the problem. Public schools should not outsource education, because that puts a big deal of children at a severe disadvantage, and the children are not to blame.
Oh, you misread the ADD part, I meant I have a physical condition, not that I'm lazy. Look it up, it's real regardless of your misguided opinion. I mentioned that as an example of how children whose parents don't help with homework are unaffected. I'm a successful adult now, though, so no need to feel sorry.
My point is, to quote you, "that people who don't have regular caretakers are at a disadvantage because nobody is home to assist them with the work"
Anybody who says, "the way we used to be taught to do subtraction is so much simpler, what's the point of this new math?", I challenge you to use the old way to do 325 - 38 in your head without paper or computer to record your steps. Keep track of all the number you are borrowing in your head and everything. Then do the counting up method in your head to do 325 - 38, and then you tell me which one is simpler. I realized a variant of the counting up method (the counting down method) without it even being taught to me to calculate change in my head a long time ago. This "new" math isn't hard, people are just stupid and don't have much number sense. It's no wonder people have trouble with doing math in their head.
You would simply change the equation, takes about a second.
325 - 38
300 - 13
= 287
Classic and simplistic way of quickly calculating mentally, just move stuff around. This common core stuff is ridiculous, and I'm glad I was never taught it.
Common core be like: “You quickly figured out the correct answer in your head? You didn’t show your work, so it’s wrong”
I don't understand. I've always done basic math problems this way in my head. I thought this was basic intuition.
Same. They didn't teach it in school, but I developed this shortcut to quickly calculate my change since I often go to the market.
Same here for me, a German. I was never great in maths, but not too bad either. I never even knew this method had a real "name" :D
This is aimed at the lowest common denominator. The people who dont develop that intuition. Thats what anything the government does involves, the lowest common denominatorm
@@BlastinRope Well said.
The only time common core is useful is for doing the math in your head. Its onerous and pointless to do it on paper if there is an easier way.
Wait wait wait wait... So you're telling me that 1:21 isn't the OBVIOUS way other people do subtractions?
Well, that explains a lot about Majority vs Math: I never understood how can people not find math simple.
Plus, tell me which one is supposed to be the difference between that one and the next!
im in Canada here and i think its similar to the US, kids here just dont like math and teachers dont like teaching it. It gets maybe 30 mins in a 5 to 6 hour class day and then the teacher is like yeah screw this back to story books.
Ruben I found the first one easier to understand. All the these methods of drawing number lines or counting differences make it harder and longer for me
Let me explain this better. One day a bunch of math nerds got together and said, "you know what would make the already difficult and hated subject of math even better?! Add 10 unnecessary extra steps to every problem!" Everyone was like, "thats a good idea." So the stupidity that is common core was created.
Try explaining how math works to produce PROBLEM SOLVERS, without using more steps, taking longer & looking more complex. Locals should be more involved helping suggest better ways!
This is why I’m a theatre major. That looks so goddamn stressful.
And why not just subtract 13 from 38 to make it 25. Then solve 325 - 25. Then take (300 - 13) which is easy to determine as 287?
That's an easier way to visualize 325 - 38.
OMG I want to punch someone right now!
Angel S You did precisely the same thing they are teaching which is simplifications. Her way is one way, but your way is also correct, AND simpler. It is this what is being taught to children instead of having them waddle on their own to find these shortcuts and why they work.
Angel S Implying that everyone thinks that your way is the best way is exactly why many teachers are terrible.
Angel S You're suppose to do it the way it's easiest for you. If you don't know then the computer scientists and mathematics guys have simple trick to follow, you just simply do it the way that takes up the least amount of space. That's usually almost always the easiest most simplified direct way to get the answer.
+Angel S 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8
If you are measuring a line that is 24 cm, and then another line that is 24 cm, and adding them together, you get 48 cm. However, if you only measure to the nearest 10 centimeters, then you are measuring one line as 20 cm, another line as 20 cm, and the sum total of them as 50 cm.
That is why they say 2 + 2 = 5 for very large values of 2.
This probably isn't a practical example, because most people can measure more accurately than just 1 digit.
+Kevin Price I do have to say... A couple months back, I had a cashier PULL OUT HIS PHONE to do a simple subtraction. One that would be difficult using the "borrowing" method (quick question, what does it mean to borrow?) in your head. But using some of these common core techniques much easier (I was able to come up with the answer by the time he got to the calculator app...).
A lot of people will get through their lives without a lick of math knowledge, I've no issue with that. All I know is that it helped a ton when I learned how to multiply numbers properly in my head as I progressed through my college math courses. When you can multiply 2-3 digit numbers together quicker than you can find a calculator and type them in, it helps plenty.
Of course, this is mainly useful if you are planning to enter any STEM fields. If not, you'll do just fine without.
If you're going to use our low standing in math skills as a country to justify why we're doing this, then surely you're saying that those other countries are using this with all of their kids. Correct?
lednerg I see what you're saying but each country is unique. What works for one country wouldn't necessarily work for another.
Try reading The Smartest Kids in the World and How They Got That Way by Amanda RipleyIt's an interesting book that covers teaching methods in different countries.
Allen Luo _"What works for one country wouldn't necessarily work for another."_
We are talking about Math, not f*ing agriculture. The one field of study that is 100% independent of any variables.
***** Different countries, have different cultures and as a result, people will usually prefer different teaching styles.
Also what kind of sick person fucks agriculture? Is that physically possible?
+Allen Luo man this fucking Allen don't get it. Fuck man, the fucking agreeculture is not a concrete factual course like the fucking mathematics. Fuck this crazy world
Allen Luo
Big-Pharma has proven it _is_ possible. Hard, true, but it can be done.
So in other words you converted subtraction back into addition because you couldn't grasp how to subtract...
I got goosebumps when she used the sharpie
Math like that would've confused me more. Maybe it works well for someone with a creative-oriented mind, but as someone who thinks more on the logical side and seeks the simplest, most efficient way, I would've been screwed. In fact, I would've hated math.
maybe its more confusing, but it actually does help you find the simplest solution quickly... traditional ways always work and are always the same difficulty and the same efficiency, but understanding maths helps you find the easiest and most efficient way...
I have a creative-oriented mind, and I think this is bullshit.
But it is a logical way. Sure it isn't efficient but it breaks down the method into more steps so that you understand why the simpler ways work
Exact same! But I still hate math.
At least Algebra, I can't even figure out how to do it.
vizthex Algebra is just multiplication but easier. With multiplication you'd have something like (2 x 4) + (9 x 4) = 8 + 36 = 44. Algebra would have the same questions like this. 2x + 9x = 11x. If 11x = 44, 44/11 = 4.
It's not okay to teach someone to only do it the long way. Help them understand it, and know why certain things happen.. then for the love of god shorten it.
Common core can't be even used for more advanced math classes. Absolutely pointless.
it can , but they taught it poorly and they dunno about the levels . i use common core but my common core is much higher levels than them and i have more better ways to do it .
see my videos for proof .
This math just overcomplicates things to new level. Does not make any sense at all. I can see kids learning this in a more easier fun way.
Locals & TEXTBOOKS define specific classwork, NOT standards like Common Core!
But borrowing makes so much sense, you just move down a ten.
Thankfully we learn normal math in Catholic school.
That makes no sense.
I break it down by digits. 243-87 into 3-7 so i take a ten so it's 13-7 which is 6. then i do 23-8 and i move the 10 down to get 13-8 which is 5. then i put the 1 back to get 156
Okay. We just process things differently. Whatever works for you.
Seamus Landis Trouble is traditional math teaching was the "one size fits all" method
that anti CC seems to demand.
So I have two high school students, both say the common core way of teaching is confusing and much harder to get right. Even in the video they go from 100 to 300. but wouldn't 200 be the next big number? If you don't skip a step when you are supposed they the answer is wrong. I have had my kids bring homework that the answer was right but they solved it in 6 steps but there was supposed to be 7 steps so they got it wrong. I was told by teachers (yes more than one) that the answer does not matter it is the correct process that matters, and if you miss something in the process then the answer is wrong even if it is right. So there is more than one way to do something but if you do not do it exactly like you are supposed to then you are wrong even when you are right.
Troy Clayton That's funny. I got the same sort of troubles in school from being able to multiple and divide in my head, without writing it out.The teachers wanted me to write out the full, long division answer. But I'd already learned and figured out how to do the math in my head, so I was only making my hand and arm ache by writing it out.
I'm not a teacher or parent or anything, just my observation... They don't seem to be going to the next biggest number (even though that is what the lady is saying), they are basically getting all the ones, then the tens, then all the hundreds, then the left overs. Also, if I didn't show my work in school I got points off of problems even if I was correct. That's nothing new, it just seems like those teachers are taking it to the extreme.
TyrannousCheese And that's the point. Common Core wants students to obey and be good citizens of the world first. Learning enough to actually live is secondary.
***** Good on you for pursuing the art of computer programming! As someone who is currently in a Game Design and Development major in college, I can tell you that you have a lot of hard work ahead of you -- but keep at it and you can go very, very far.
I agree that perhaps the rigor by which Common Core works -- in terms of things like skipping from 100 to 300, instead of having an intervening 200 -- is problematic. I blame that on poor teachers that don't really know the point of doing Common Core's number sense stuff. And that's why I support the *concept of* Common Core, though I understand that its current implementation is not good.
But there is one important point that I do want to say about programming. It's absolutely true that there are millions of ways to get any task done in code. And all of them will work. But when making demanding programs like video games, where efficiency is important, some ways might not be good enough -- and that's one very big reason that understanding how math works is very important (and how computers work, for that matter).
For example, let's say you need, for some reason, a function that calculates the n'th element of the Fibonacci sequence (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, etc.). Programmers love this problem as an example of recursion, and this is the most common way of programming the answer -- but it's also extremely inefficient! If you need to find the n'th element quickly and without using much memory, the best way is probably a simple formula based on the Golden Ratio and the square root of 5, interestingly enough! (If you'd rather not use that formula, calculating the answer in a loop, rather than recursively, is a pretty happy medium, especially if you use memoization to 'remember' what you've already calculated.)
No one would actually expect you to know this, but it's a good demonstration of how, in programming, two answers that produce the same answer are NOT necessarily equally good. It's very important to understand that, and to be open to and willing to look for different and better solutions to your problem when programming. Hence my support of efforts that teach broader and more holistic views of math to students at a young age, so they can more fully understand what they learn later on.
***** The current United States school system is a government run mess, which really needs an injection of not government into it.
School Vouchers and more charter schools would help a lot, it's just that getting the laws passed takes a LOT to get it past Union opposition and activists.
"There are definitely bumps in the road."
*Then iron out the bumps before implementing a flawed way of teaching*
I getcha, but the problem is you don't learn about the bumps until you implement it... some bumps don't become apparent until you scale up.
how do you teach the parents something? thats the core complaint
In my math classes as part of learning a concept, we have to prove it and it really helps with understanding because we know why it works rather than having someone just tell us it works and to not question it.
Cool, now show a child doing it.
exactly
+ItamiBukoto Exactly, common core makes excellent sense if you already know what to expect. It's a great demonstration... Except kids don't have a fucking clue what they're looking at and the demonstration is needlessly difficult. What should be done is the 'quick and easy method' so kids have an idea of what to expect, then these demonstrations to show 'how' it works. That way the necessary understanding of what to expect is there so the demonstration can actually demonstrate.
+Hapie “Real Name” Star If you wanted them to learn a method where they don't understand wtf is going on to only show them later then you may as well get them to use calculators.
softrockification
No, they still are learning to manipulate numbers with the method above, and they have the advantage of being able to do it even when they don't have a calculator.
Learning with a calculator though is still better in my opinion than the bullshit my sister went through.
sounds more like tricks your teacher show to you
There are no tricks in math, it's just numbers. Subtract two numbers any way you like, it's all the same. 325 - 38...well you get to 300, you have 13 left, so 287. It doesn't matter.
twistedblktrekie I was already an adult and working when I realized that the rigid methods of math instruction were garbage. You can use any process you like as long as it's logical and produces correct results.
I wonder if we still used abacuses, if kids would be better at math because they intuitively teach you can push numbers around any way that makes sense to you. Or poker...push some poker chips around and you get good at simple addition and subtraction real quick.
Yes they are "tricks" and the fit the end testing. They are intended to give the illusion of mastery. Thus the allure for administrators who's salaries and bonuses are increasingly based on std test scores.
Given real life science math problems, students from schools that embraced the common core model are running out of time on my exams, never actually completing the problems. Students from classic schools or districts that rejected the stem math are finishing and getting the correct and practical answer. This is a recent phenomenon, like students that can't finish essay exams on time as they are laboriously hand printing like a seven year old instead of writing quickly in standard longhand.
University professors, like bosses in outside professions, don't typically give partial credit for just singing and dancing. I only want the answer, and I budget x minutes for each problem on my exams. Uncompleted work merits a zero.
I don't allow smartphones or personal calculators unless I have checked them for having only basic functionality (arithmetic, logs and trig only). If their "calculator" is a PC in disguise or a tablet, I hand them a basic $5 calculator for the exam.
Yes I'm that guy.
ok. You mention you like it as it uses real life scientific problems so riddle me this Batman from my freshman chemistry exam:
The density of liquid water near freezing is 0.9999 grams/cc. Density of ice just below freezing is 0.9150.
You are in the field and have a one cubic yard container. How high in inches can you fill it with liquid water on a cold day when you expect a freeze, but you don't want to burst the container overnight.
If you like to stay in metric you may substitute a cubic meter vessel, and the answer of fill height in cm.
Don't use a computer, smart phone or the internet, just paper. That is a 3 to 5 minute question on my exam without a calculator or a one minute question with a simple dollar calculator. Don't cheat.
If you can't do it, you don't have a working knowledge of math and can't do uncontroved problems.
That is real world stuff you must sometimes do as a layman, and an experimental scientist or engineer can do wo batting an eye.
I'll wait 15 minutes, assuming it takes 10 to see this.
well at least you read it. Didn't try the solution, but you read it and were honest. No harm no foul.
32.9 inches in the cu yd box. 91cm 5mm (you remember .9150) in the cu meter box. If you want to figure it to 3 decimal points it is only one multiplication. if to the whole 4 decimal points.
This requires no training in context, just the most basic geometry and a concept of geometric volume.
.9150/.9999 * height of vessel = .9151 meters
you can't hop about with an abacus thought pattern to get that fast. Just long division and carrying multiplication.
The Core problem that I find Common (pardon the pun) is that the student believes any problem presented must have been practiced and rehearsed in class. Life isn't like that.
Practical application is creating the math formula out of the words and environment.
Good luck with your endeavors, but most college graduate specialized jobs pay 70k plus. Chase any dream you desire in your pursuit of happiness.
Live long and prosper.
Just gonna point out not only is Common Core method grossly inefficient, but it has been proven to FAIL at making things simpler for students in the United States. Results have shown that Traditional methods have greater longevity of use and a more flexible application for everyday use. Not only is it faster, not only is it better for understanding number relationships, but it also does not really require a writing utensil and parchment.
If you really want to see Common Core at work, watch what happens when a teenage cashier hits the wrong preset dollar amount for cash in a grocery store or restaurant. I can't tell you how many times I have casually walked them through just referencing the bill and the amount I actually gave them and ignore what the drawer THINKS you gave it. "Will the drawer balance out?" Yes. Yes it will, because it will assume you gave back the nonexistent cash that I never gave you... A basic subtraction equation eludes them because they are not learning how to form a real-life applied use of math. And don't get me started on them trying to calculate tips. It's embarrassing that they can not even utilize their phones' built-in calculators because they don't even know how to translate a real life instance into an understood expression to solve.
I learned math the “common core” way, and I think that it has helped me a lot. It kinda makes every equation like puzzle pieces. 8+7=15 because 8 needs 2 to get to 10, 7 can be split into 5+2, 8+2=10, 10+5=15. The only downside to this is that I never memorized all multiplication and division facts, it I can easily compute it in my head.
At some point when I was about 3 I simply remembered that 7+8 = 15 and never had to check it ever again. Must be hell going through that process every single time.
I'm 34, in elementary school we had addition, subtraction, multiplication & division tournaments... You did not have pen and paper, you had to think quick and shout out the answer before your opponent. Obviously we learned math the Correct "Old school" way, which is much more efficient. I was the mathematics Champion 2 consecutive years, for you CC kids, thats 10+6-14= 2 years.
In my experience as someone who has struggled and excelled in math depending on how it was taught, common core is just counting presented in a way more complex method than needed. Like a lot of math problems, though it's good to give a little number theory on why a method makes sense, after that point it doesn't really help anyone in 'critical thinking'. For example, in early calculus, you learn limits and find derivatives using a very long and complicated method to eventually get an answer when most of the time afterwards you use the power rule, product and sum rule, etc. Both methods work and have an explanation as to why they work, just the latter is more efficient. Most of the time, what you initially learn is useless, especially the lower down in a grade you get. In the real world, the best way to use math is the most efficient one, the one where you get the answer the quickest. Really, critical thinking is most useful to people in real life situations, yet from my experience, we don't teach it in history, English, PE,etc where it would have real life benefit. For example, instead of telling students to memorize vocabulary, we could have them discuss their opinions on why a country made a specific political move, or why and how certain literature elicits an emotion (and how we can implement it in our own writing), or in PE where there is plenty of opportunity to discuss strategy on how to win a game or beat other quantitative goals. Talking and discussing is a tool to teach critical thinking that comes much more naturally to children than struggling on why certain arbitrary squiggly lines need to be added in a certain way. At the end of the day, you can do common core without really thinking about it. Just because it is a tool based on logic doesn't mean it helps children learn logic.
Zoe Thomas I'm in calculus right now, and you're very right. I don't think Americans are "bad" at math because we haven't been taught with this complex way. It depends on the teacher and general teaching style as well-- physics, which is applied math, did not make any sense to me at all. Calculus, however, is something I can actually do if I practice. There was a huge contrast in teaching styles there, and it may have been the subject matter, but I think that still applies even with implementing Common Core.
Zoe Thomas. Excellent response.
Zoe Thomas Your idea is great, but it's idealistic at best. The current education system in America simply don't have that amount of time to teach their students the required amount of information. At least based on my experience as a high school student. Certainly, your idea is great and I do admit that it does work if there is no required amount of information that the teacher need you to learn. In English classes, especially in high school level, it doesn't seem like student need to learn much more stuff pertaining to the "true" things that they need to learn in there, i.e. grammar rules, various literary devices, etc, the stuff we generally learn in there are reading comprehension and improving writing skill. In that English class (English 3), we routinely do discussion on various pieces of writing, range from literature to short piece of text, to song lyric. etc. So in there, there weren't a requirement for us to accumulate a quota of information, instead we just take a test at the end of course to demonstrate what we learned. All of us passed the class and more than 90% of us achieved excellence mark.
On the other hand, while I was in Algebra 2, our math teach sometime do let us discuss about the various rule of mathematics and let us attempt to solve it first before she reveal how it can be solve using an unlearned theorem. She is truly an excellence teacher and I do feel I learned a lot of math from her, but the constrict in time doesn't let me learn all of Algebra 2 subject. For example, we didn't even get to trigonometry. And that is the case with a lot of classes that require the student to learn enough information about this subject to pass.
I get where you're coming from with the whole "teachers don't have time" thing but that in and of itself is a product of a bad system that could easily be changed, much easier than most people think. For example if we started taking advantage of younger students ability to learn (elementary school level), we would be able to teach the basics at that critical time. Then by the time students reached highschool they would have a lot of information under the belt, enough that they would have the time for discussion. From what I remember of elementary school, there was a lot of wasted time teaching basic concepts over and over when there was no need to. Often teachers (adults in general) underestimate a child's ability to learn and retain information, all we did was workbooks and worksheets all just for memorizing basic concepts that we understood within 1 week of being introduced. Often times this leads to an overload of information needing to be taught to highschoolers, overtime information has built up and instead of pushing information down they just cram it all into the last 3 years of public education and then really students have no time at all to learn very advanced and complex theories.
Zoe Thomas Looks like you have the basic plan of Common Core. Youngsters experience knowledge with play with rote learning when ready.
And here I am being the only homeschooler in these comments 😂
Common Core was one of the reason I left public school last year. I understand math much better now that I'm homeschooled tbh
+twistedblktrekie shut up no one cares
Michigan is trying to repeal common core.
Well school develops you as a person socially and your confidence
Bad mistake no hate just sharing my opinion
Idk about ACT, but the SATs were recently revamped to go with the new standards. The writing portion is gone, so it's just math and language with a cap of 800 in each like normal to a total of 1600.
It sounds redundant, I know
I was simultaneously taught Common Core and traditional math at the same time. People act like they only teach Common Core nowadays.
When I went to school, there was only one right way to do a math problem. It was the method the teacher was teaching. If you tried to use a different method, even one that was fundamentally correct, but differed in any way, you were wrong.
So common core teaches you the why not just the how. It might be more difficult in the short term but hopefully we might see it pay off over time. "Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in"
I figured out the why without common core. I'm not that intelligent. You don't need this crap to learn the why. It's just an excuse for the federal gov't to interfere in something else (education.)
Rio Grande Yes because federal education and a 1:1 ratio in every states education system is a terrible idea
Lucus Michael Yes, it is. Firstly, it violates the Constitution, and secondly, it assumes that the federal government is more capable of making decisions to monopolize education than individual states are becoming laboratories of innovation.
Rio Grande Yes so lets allow states to gamble an entire generations education and the future of the nation in their little laboratories of innovation
Lucus Michael As if the federal gov't isn't gambling by installing a universal standard. That's actually a BIGGER gamble.
Like the "frustrated parent" said, simplification over complication. I have learned Common Core (and quite frankly, it's honestly not as complicated as it seems), and I believe it is important for everyone to realize there are more than one way to approach a problem. But once that realization is reached, Common Core has no point.
nwang868 From what I can tell reaching that realization IS the point of Common Core. When I was first learning subtraction I did something similar to the weird common core "number line" method. Even though it took longer it's what made sense to me. Carrying is a lot more abstract and hard to grasp if you don't approach the problem from a different angle first.
There are more than ways to approach the problems and that is why they mark the students wrong when they use the old ways?? You can use your right hand to eat but you can also use your left... but in school if you insist to use your right hand you'll be graded wrong even if its easier and faster for you. Common core implimentation is that they are conditioning how to think instead of giving them options.
Alcyone89 heh, in the past if you wrote with your left hand you'd be punished :P.
nwang868 Finally a logical comment. I completely agree.
stone sherrill has nothing to do with the main topic common core.
You know what's funny, is that I never learned to use common core and somehow that's how I do math in my head. Interesting.
I'm wondering when people were taught that numbers were anything other than numbers. Every segment that I've watched says the same thing about how "inflexible" people of my generation are when it comes to thinking of numbers. I was always taught that a number is a number combined with other numbers to make another number...thus flexible. That you could get to the answer in a number of ways. However, it's only when it comes time to "show your work" that students get punished. Some of us work differntly. Some of us can do it in our heads but we were punished for GETTING THE ANSWER RIGHT because we didn't "show the work". Who's problem is that? NOT the student's. Why punish them for getting it right? That needs to change.
I'm not convinced. And don't tell me I'm a parent who doesn't understand. It's insulting. Your "number sense" that you showed here makes NO SENSE... to me at any rate. I would not, could not (who loves Dr. Seuss here?) do it this way. Listen. Here's the problem with common core. All kids have to do this way, and if they find the "old/efficient" way works better for them as an individual, it's not allowed and even if their answer is correct, guess what? It's wrong. Because common core is the ONLY WAY. You can say that the old "stacking" way doesn't teach ... whatever.. but I never had a problem with understanding what the hell I was doing. It made perfect sense to me.
You do the math on that one. Common Core does NOT equal common sense. We are not all the same. Nor should we all be.
+twistedblktrekie Thank you for your comments. And I apologize that it seems I came across "hard" in my original post. I was clearly in a mood after watching the video. :( The point that I poorly was trying to make is that not all children are alike. I take issue with the fact that if a different method works better for someone it's simply not allowed. To put everyone into one "pool" of a type of learning is poor at best. Common Core math in fact comes from Singapore Math, which has been highly successful. I have no issue with that. I have issue with not allowing children to learn in a style that is best for them as an individual. I hope that makes better sense. Say for example someone who found a Saxon type style of math worked best for them (a more American traditional style of learning math that's been very successful) will be just as prepared to learn higher math as those learning a Singapore style (such as CCSS). Again, it's the "forcing" of one style and willingly leaving parents uninformed that I think is the problem. In fact often times us parents are told to “butt out of it” - as if our children's education shouldn't be a concern nor a priority to us rather than explaining what CC math is (or isn't). How many people actually know that CC math is based off of the Singapore method and that this is the method used where the kids are ranking #2 in math across the world? Likely few because no one is explaining these things.
In addition from a parent's standpoint - most of the public schools are using Everyday Math. If memory serves the number is about 9 out of 10. These text books are simply all over the place in terms of learning (this is spiral not mastery, but I understand it's implementation is poor compared to other spiral methods). A lot of kids are having a hard time due to a lack of focus. Again, everyone is different. Saxon math uses a spiral approach (introducing new concepts slowly and spending a lot of time reviewing old ones) while Singapore Math uses a mastery approach in which you study and learn one big step or method until you've "mastered" it before moving on to another big step/method. If you've ever taken a look at these Everyday Math books their is no focus what-so-ever. Indeed I have my daughter's Everyday Math workbooks from 1st grade sitting right here. The first page I've opened (just now to explain to everyone reading this) has addition, fractions, fact families, time, and money. This is page 177 of volume 2. Again, this “all over the place”/lack of focus approach is the only of it's kind that I'm aware of and from what I can tell from the research I've done (and it's certainly true for my daughter) not working well for many, many kids.
Edited to add: for anyone further curious about Everyday Math explained simply in a short article (and even though they call themselves a spiral approach) why this curriculum is different from other methods (including Singapore from which CC is based) I would recommend reading this: imaginationsoup.net/2012/03/14/everyday-math-makes-me-want-to-scream/
Again, I go back to no two people being the same. The problem I see here is that the spiral approach of Everyday Math does not offer children who need a more mastery approach an opportunity to feel comfortable with a concept before moving on to a completely different subject. It skims over each topic, teaching to the median, leaving many children behind. In addition, "mental math" has it's place, but so too does knowing how to quickly and efficiently calculate more complex math without having to draw out boxes, tallies, dots, and using M&M's and taking 10x as long to perform a simple math calculation. That's a BIG problem in my opinion. In this video, the writer made it sound like understanding what you're doing in stacking math is something that a person couldn't possibly conceptualize without a number graph?.... Common sense (not common core) simply tells you this isn't true. It doesn't take brilliance to see and understand where you're taking numbers from in a stacking method. This argument of "number sense" while it has it's place, is over emphasized in my opinion.
One more thing I'd like to add for anyone still reading: here's a small simple study one school did in response to parent concerns over Everyday Math. They replaced it with Saxon within some groups and Singapore Math with others. While this is a bit dated, keep in mind Everyday Math has changed little, if at all, since CC standards came around. The results are interesting. www.nychold.com/art-danbury-060304.html
And finally, for all of those wanting to make us parents just sound like we're stubborn, intentionally uninformed, and don't know what the hell we're talking about... think again. I assure you that I have a MUCH higher interest in what is right for my children and their future than the federal government, book publishers who are in it for the money (not academics), or some teacher who's paycheck depends on following these standards. Please stop with the comments that we don't get it. We do and that's why we're saying something, our kids certainly can't. :)
Preface: I am not a parent, I have not learned math through common core, I have only seen examples of common core. What I like about the idea of common core is that it proposes to *show how* math works more than the old methods that just *tell you what to do*. I remember, as an above average student in every other subject, and below average in math: what always frustrated me about math was that we were told what to do but not WHY. Borrow 1 from here... why? Use this formula... why? And it gets worse the older you get and the more complicated math gets: you are told more and more formulas and tricks and given less explanations. It gets to the point where your blazing through multiple concepts and multiple formulas every week, even if you don't fundamentally understand the previous ones.
+SmartyPantsGamerMom I'm still in school. When common core came i thought(and still think) it's very stupid aggravating to draw number lines and boxes just to get an A+. I hate how they overcomplicate something i already know how to do. Also you review over basically EVERYTHING you were taught the grade before but in a complicated way and I learn nothing from it.
Some people I know actually like doing it, but I think it is the stupidest thing ever. Doesn't help that you also have to draw something for EVERY problem. This is only my and almost my entire school's(even the teachers) opinion.
+twistedblktrekie no
There is no longer a sane justification for training people in the quickest way to do arithmetic computation. It is more important that we develop the skills to manipulate numbers with ease and in comfort. Without those skills, people struggle to apply those manipulations in science, engineering, statistics, or any of the other high-tech professions that you want your children to excel in.
This is why I have no sympathy for people who post their kids' common core homework with a comment like "what is this BS?".
My friend teaches common core to teachers and your comment is one of most clearly stated comments I have heard or read yet as to why it makes sense.
Oh, wonderful explanation. I've been fighting the good fight (supporting common core) for a couple of years and have many people who think I'm loony. This is so helpful.
Also, did you read the New York Times article about American innumeracy about a year ago? great resource.
Ilyanna Kreske I believe you are referring to "Why Do Americans Stink At Math?" (www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/why-do-americans-stink-at-math.html). Yes, it was very disturbing. The USA produces some of the world's foremost education theories, but it isn't willing to put them into practice. Mostly.
Adrian Colley It saddens me when people talk about how nobody needs algebra or calculus in real life. Students should not be using any calculators until they are in an actual degree college, where performing fast calculations is as important as learning higher level mathematics. In high-school students have enough time to practice drawing graphs by hand and perform calculations for the same by hand.
Adrian Colley Wouldn't it make more sense to use Common Core to explain the underlying principles of arithmetic, then teach the faster ways as a shortcut? This is similar to do what teachers do in Trigonometry, Calculus, Linear Algebra, etc.
I learned the standard algorithm, and my mom explained borrowing to me. I guess I should say here that I was homeschooled. She explained (for examples 40-6), that reducing the 4 to a 3 is like taking that ten away (because 4 is in the 10s place) and putting it in the 1s place, so the top number is bigger now. To my 8 and 9 year old mind, it made perfect sense and I'm great at math. She taught of us like that, and now two of my brothers are/were math majors (one graduated, the other's a junior). Common core is unecessary and doesn't teach anything useful. This method (or any other) should only be applied if nothing else has the child understanding the concept. And that, I think, should be up more to the parents or a tutor to assist, as (of course), there are too many students in highschool, middle school, and elementary classes for teachers to do that. Unless those teachers develop "office hours", maybe.
As a child, I remember not liking the standard algorithm bc it wasnt how numbers behaved everywhere else, and it felt cluttered.
This type of subtraction is basically the same as "counting back" money when working without a cash register.
I've seen rants on some comment sections complaining that our youths don't know how to do count back subtraction, which can be convenient when giving change, they're unfit to be cashiers.
Sometimes I have trouble differentiating what some people call new math vs old math. It seems that the teacher plays a huge role in the end result.
I'm 35 and I use this method with money all the time. I can figure out my change before it's even handed to me.
+only half bad 333
yea i use math too, but i doubt you do a number line faster than they can hand you change
+ihatecrackhead Actually I can. I already know my change before I hand the person my money. it's not that hard.
lets say your total is $26.36 You hand the cashier $30 in my head I'm already doing the math. I need 64 cents to make a dollar. From that dollar, I need $3 more to come up with the total of $30.
Just figure out the cents first and the dollars second and you'll know your change before the computer.
+only half bad 333
it takes a computer a few milliseconds to solve an equation
+ihatecrackhead its the same number line method but in your head
+ihatecrackhead microseconds... :D as for 2016, chips can do about 100 operations in a single nanosecond
This is actually an accounting way approach. Ins and outs to make a whole, balance.
I actually use this process on my head to solve problems without using a calculator or a pen/ pencil.
+John Calmer It's so much easier to do math with these methods. Especially when it comes to multiplication and division.
you can do this in your head because over time you developed an ability to think abstractly, critically about numbers... application in the real world.
Children DO NOT possess this trait until they are older.
+Paul Hope That's true.
Hey, maybe we could teach it instead of having them memorize multiplication tables until they figure it out on their own. It's brilliant.
+Paul Hope i definitely started doing math this way on my own when i was young... theres no harm in trying to teach a more rigorous method. the US is a joke when it comes to the math we are taught anyways
+Jordan Epstein Same. If asked the difference between two numbers I always jumped to more rounded numbers and remembered the small "hops", then added them up at the end.
I was doing this 20+ years ago, long before any sort of concepts were taught (I'm in Canada) and I think it's a great approach to math.
If parents actually read up on the concepts rather than taking to social media with their ignorant outrage, they could probably grasp the basic concepts and learn along with their children!
When I first learned how common core math works, I realized this is just how I do math in my head. Get to the nearest 10 place, then the nearest 100, and at the end consider the variances you had to make at the beginning and end. You can do large computations in your head using big blocks. I hear a lot of people saying how abstract it is, it seems very conceptual to me.
@Michael English I've gone through a lot of CC math (because I've had to help my nieces and nephews at various grade levels). I, too, find it very conceptual. From the start, it clicked with my brain. It even allowed me to understand why the standard algorithms work the way they do. They are basically shortcuts. I think, whether or not someone prefers the conceptual approaches to the standards, really depends on how they learn math. I'm more of a conceptual and visual math learner than needs to understand WHY I'm doing something in order to effectively execute an algorithm. Some of my nieces and nephews are like me, while the other prefer just to get through math by memorizing the standards -- something I've waned them against.
Ok, here’s a reality check. In the 1950s we taught math in a way that took Americans to the moon and back. Today we teach math that makes America the laughing stock of developed countries. Time to ditch this new common core and get back to teaching math.
This is an amazing video. Nice job, Vox!
Thanks! For more about the common core, here's Libby Nelson's cardstack on the subject: www.vox.com/cards/commoncore/what-is-the-common-core
Vox Clearly determined to defend this "common core math" stupidity at any cost. Idiocy.NONE of the countries that do better than the the US in STEM use this or anything like it.
Standard method work
inbfra Ever hear of an abacus? The basic concepts of making 10s (Common Core Addition) is physically represented in the abacus. I live in Japan, and children are taught this in kindergarten. Japan ranks 2nd, behind South Korea (incidentally, also familiar with the abacus).
Nothing to do with an abacus.
Asian countries still drill their students, and the correct answers matter. Not the case with common core.
Bob Robberts It's absolutely nonsense that is all.
i actually found this math to be quite simple
Im glad you found 1st grade math simple
+twistedblktrekie borrow what exactly?
I feel the same. The way they showed CC subtraction is how i actually subtract in my head (but at a much, much faster rate). The same applies for when I multiply and divide (using portions and not the whole)
My teacher was doing fairly complex multiplication and division in his head and I asked him how he did. Using portions was how he did it, and it was much easier and made me much better at doing it in my head. This was 15+ years ago, long before common core. People are just scared of what they don't know.
I find myself doing adding and multiplying uses portions of round numbers a lot. I'm pretty good at estimating answers even if I can't always find the exact value. I was never taught the Common Core methods of math. They seem reasonable if people would view them as a way to understand concepts and not just as how to quickly solve rote arithmetic.
Why am I not surprised that Vox would be presenting common core in a positive light?
oh yeah this is a liberal channel
We get it, you don't understand Common Core and all new things are bad. You've become your parents. Next please.
There isn't much about understanding why 8*6=48, it's such a basic and fundamental concept of mathematics. I can't even imagine how much more complicated it would be to teach concepts like trigonometry and calculus with that approach. Yikes
I actually like this explanation and it sheds a whole lot of light on Common Core. Actually...I really like it. It molds to ways I 'thought' when I was younger, but I always did it the old way. I'm going to go find out more about the basis of these techniques and how scholars came to the conclusion that this was a new and better way to communicate the concepts. Thanks Vox!
Sayem I went to Kumon also
Please stop double spacing after your periods. We no longer type on typewriters.
LOL
Canada's probably way higher up than america cuz they don't teach this
Canada is higher than the us for only one reason "Every Child Left Behind."
This absurd system failed abjectly in TX, Bush made it mandatory nationally for only one reason---to dumb down future voters. Now conservatives fear common core so they tell us it's mandatory when it's voluntary by state and they tell you in common core that 2+2=5. Not true either. Common core would be the end of the GOP because it teaches kids Deductive Reasoning, Critical Thinking and Scientific Method.
First off, I'm a Canadian parent in Toronto, Ontario. I'm also an Electronic Engineering Technologist. Required to take advanced Calculus, understand it, and apply it. I'm also a parent of 2 children both of whom where perfectly fine average students until grade 3 when they introduce this more difficult common core math. So at least in the Toronto District School Board they most certainly teach common core math. My oldest now going into grade 7. Fell behind so far in math and almost failed grade 3. Then in grades 4 and 5 took extra classes of which were during normal class time (falling further behind in other subjects). We were branded as bad parents for not taking 3-4 hours every night to go over this BS (I completely understand this stuff, it's all logic based, but I find it pointless to teach this) That "Dear Jack" response looked almost exactly like a response I sent back to the school 3.5 years ago. Turns out that it wasn't my oldest' lack of ability. It's the teaching method this school employs. After moving onto a different school in grade 6 (what we call middle school) my oldest almost instantly within the first 2 weeks was getting 100% on math tests and it has changed my child's entire outlook on school and self esteem. Think what it was like to be pulled from regular class to get extra math help all so, as it turns out, the school and the board can score well on internationally standardized tests.
Well, my second child just finished grade 3.. guess what happened when this common core math was introduced..... a slightly above average student prior to the introduction of this BS. Letters where sent home stating our child was in danger of failing the grade unless the marks would improve.... We were at least prepared this time around. Our oldest worked with our youngest to "explain" what the school was expecting and by the end of the year our youngest was back to the same testing level as at the end of grade 2. I feel that this common core math is used only to teach our children to follow rules and not "think" for themselves.
I'm an IT Solutions Manager, we regularly hire 3rd or 4th year college Co-Op students for 4+ months terms. Not a single time have I ever required an applicant to show me common math solutions in order to gain a favorable outcome of the interview. I would prefer that the schools teach more than one method. Let the students decide which method works for them. As an employer I can tell you if I had to employees both of whom I set a task that included solving some math problems. The one that came to me first with the correct answer would gain favor. I don't care how they get the answer. Outside the world of academia (real world) the time it takes to get a correct answer is the only measure of success and failure. Rant completed.
But they do teach common core methods in Canada, at least where I live in Toronto
Well in French school in Montreal we still don't
I have 2 boys age 18 and 15 they were able to learn the 'normal' way all a long.
I can understand your situation, I would be lost myself facing this.
.
Thank you. I"m looking at it right now :)
Here is the bottom line, Employers don't care in the least how you arrive at answers. They only care that they are correct. This garbage just makes the student slower and less likely to get the job.
Basically, common core is just a convenient arrangement for math problems that wasn't taught to our parents.
I think Human's brain is good enough to comprehend numbers even without this gimmick.
?
+Athrun000 Actually " gimmick" is what has been done in the past. Take the input and do this trick , there you have the answer.
+Agnes Eiden stop forcing bullshit down people's throats.
+Athrun000 If I asked 100 people to solve 5*27 in their head, I can guarantee most people would struggle or fail. The people who were successful are most likely the people smart enough to break it down into 3 simpler problems: 5*20 + 5*7. It is the same result, but with easier math. This is how humans actually do math in their heads, and that is why common core teaches it. The problem is not common core, the problem is people like you who are too ignorant to understand how much better it is
CGagnon5 The thing is many people have been doing this. But they probably thought they were cheating. They were doing it because it was more natural and in tune with the way we think as human beings.
The way I see, common core shouldn't be taught to children, but to adults. I think common core is interesting because it helps people calculate without calculators quickly, and that's much more useful to adults that need to pay the check at a restaurant and other everyday stuff like that. Kids and teens mostly need to solve math problems, which are different from the very simple everyday math.
CapsRockTheRed Draw humps on checks? No, don't do that. The graphic methods are for practice only, but if you actually understand the method for what it is you can use it and you'll end your calculations before someone get their cellphone/calculator out of their pockets. It's what I do.
And I never said there should be a "right" way to make a calculation except in the case of HOMEWORK that explicitly says so. Like a question that says: "Solve this problem using CC".
More like spent 8 hours on homework because of a 52 page homework assignment that is 100% pure common core math.
Common Core is the worst teaching method, anyone could think of. I am currently a freshman learning under Common Core, using the CPM textbook. The teachers are told to put us all in groups of 4 people, and give us problems out of the textbooks to do. So far I have had 4 teachers do "teach" it this way, when they are not teaching or talking to us themselves on how to do the work. These standards are so teachers be can lazy, all of my peers agree as well. Most of the time I have to look up online on how to do everything. EVER SINCE THE FIFTH GRADE! How can you call that effective. As much as adults would like it to work, it simply is not.
No wonder kids have a hard time in math nowadays. Smh. Rediculously inefficient when they're going to be living in a world of calculators & computers. They will use none of this nonsense.
I value simplicity. I am smart enough to understand why we do things, and why they're the way they are. And it is a very good idea to teach why we do math the way we do, but it's not good to complicate the process we use to solve the problems.
It's not good to judge based on the process.
At least, not without some basis for comparing the many different processes that lead to the right answer consistently.
There are often multiple computational paths from A to B, if we can prove one way is the most efficient, given some defined metric, that should be the standard process for that problem. Until such a standard is made, education standards are just an extension of politics
It's not about changing how you solve problems and making your problem solving process more complicated.
This is about teaching the next generation how to understand numbers and why they are the way they are.
Common core math is designed to slow down the fast learners so as not to embarrass the slow learners. That is the meaning of equality in public education. And nobody left behind.
Roy, now you force me to agree, you have a point but, I see what they are trying to do, but they are failing, it just takes to much time and no person walks around with base ten blocks in their pockets
i dont know whats entirely in the common core syllabus but my country teaches that 'counting up subtraction' method when i was 8 so i dont really remember it. (i was studying the same syllabus as an expatriat in another country with a tutor who didnt seem to get it either, or he didn't explain it to me so i didn't get it) but having taken national exams recently where time is a huge factor, i have been training myself to solve math problems faster when im sleepy, just in case i meet the same conditions when im taking the actual exam. surprisingly, i started adopting the counting up subtraction method for quick mental arithmetic and it works very well. i was permitted to use my calculator but the method was actually much faster than punching the calculator. the video had a point when they say that the process of substraction is more fleshed out compared to the usual method everyone is familar with, because it is easier to retrace steps with the counting up method, which helped tremendously when one is lethargic because it is less tedious than having to go back and look at the entire thing when you can just look at the minor subtraction in counting up. (it also helps to break down subtracting big numbers and it's easier to recall your steps and rectify mistakes) as far as speed and accuracy is concerned, the mental framework of counting up beats classical arithmentic method. it is also much easier and put less strain on your head (thus you have better stamina). when messing with displacements for calculus questions, it can get pretty confusing going back and forth (as distance is to be taken in consideration), so number line actually help to rationalise movements logically. number lines are ridiculed by steven colbert but it is actually rather underrated. numberlines are awesome from my experience because it can be used on problems concerning time, that wouldnt work with classical arithmetic. because classical arithmetic only works when the context is base 10, while time is base 12. number line can also include or exclude number that can clear up confusion much better than classical arithmetic. therefore classical arithmetic is actually not 'simple' but rather it omits a lot of information/does not work in certain context. it is a method of thinking that isnt as comprehensive as number line and also restricts number as being rather static, making numbers look dead and math boring. math can be fun and flexible (or even easy and simple) if you open your mind and question your assumption of 'simplicity'.
As a math olympiad participant, I can safely say that this is absolute garbage. While their intent may have been to develop a more holistic understanding of arithmetic, the implementation is simply ridiculous. Mathematics is fundamentally about simplicity and developing obvious intuitions. Common Core takes concepts that should be simple and needlessly complicates them. Instead of CC or any other system currently implemented in the US, we should focus on teaching mathematics in a manner that truly emphasizes its intricate beauty and symmetry. It should also be explained in multiple ways so that students are able to develop connections between seemingly disparate subjects. For example, the number line is a good geometric interpretation of the notion of subtraction representing distance, however, the concept of numerical bases should also be explained, so that students can understand the algebraic intuition for why "borrowing" works.
This couldn’t be more true. I’m a eighth grade student enrolled in spirit of Math an math program for high achievers and gifted students. I find when I go to my math class I get more confused then I was when I learned the same material in grade 5. I was shocked to learn that I needed to do algebra with tiles and balance scales. I got a lower grade for using isolation of variables/inverse operations instead of tiles. The smart kids who think and understand the methods that were taught to my parents get punished. I once got in trouble for doing the prime factorization of 16 in my head.
Common core math is the great equalizer. The PC "educators" noticed that some kids can do math in their heads and can come up with the answers right away. Now the correct answers do not matter as much as knowing the "correct method". No more math wiz because even if they get the answers correct, but they did not do it the "proper way", it is still "wrong". With common core math, everybody gets confused. That is equality.
Roy this comment gives me life
Did you just.. argue against exactly what you argued for later in the same paragraph?
I was 8 years old in 1964 the reason why we had the new math was because back then due to the russians lonching sputik one the educational system wanted to boost science in elementary school,,,,
I acutely remember a time in third grade when there was one of those "Discovering Multiplication" worksheets about boxes or something that I didn't want to do because I already understood it, so I pulled out a loose tooth so I could go to the office and skip the worksheet 😂
Can everyone please stop calling 'arithmetic' 'math'? You're saying it as if they're the same thing and can be used interchangeably. Well they're not! Arithmetic is the means to do math; it's a trick, a shortcut that is used because of our notation. Math is the abstract idea, Arithmetic is just a small part of it that helps you convey the abstract concepts in a more tangible forms and let's you manipulate numbers in a more consistent way that can be explained to others. It is the means to do a small part of math, IT IS NOT MATH!
Weird flexes, but ok.
Reading and writing and rithmatic taught to the tune of a hickory stick,,lol