I have a feeling that Bloodraven's line about not being able to reach the past is tied to the foreshadowing that Bran will make some major mistakes with his powers. I'm not sure he literally meant it's impossible to intervene in past/future events, but that perhaps there's some element of fate or causality at play here. When a seer intervenes, that's what was always supposed to happen. You can speak and they may hear, but nothing has truly changed. The green seers can bear witness to history and know the truth, but are powerless to intervene directly
Tim is the unassuming, quiet student that sits in the back of class while David is the boisterous pothead that brings him out of his shell after they bond over a common interest lol.
@@NancyRaygun_David a pothead? Nah no way. He is just a creative artsy lively energetic person who loves fantasy and fiction and is kind of a nerd. That doesn't mean he is a pothead.....
He could also be both at different times. As the pothead (pots are hot and so is the sun) david "hits" a bowl (crater), the resulting smoke blots out the creative artsy david's train of thought. The mythical astronomy is ripe.
The terrific twosome, dave and tim knocking it out of the park, really like the idea wierwood faces were like the black gate until azor ahai invaded, long live the lord of loud, bringer of chaos, goose the great
Great stream! Just wanted to add on the subject of weirwoods and life being from space, water is likely present on earth because of a series of collisions with ice rich asteroids ~3billion years ago. These impacts brought water to the cooling earth after any water would have boiled off the molten planet after the formation of the moon. The time period is called the late heavy bombardment and complex life would likely not have evolved here without it.
In Elden Ring there is a concept called the crucible, which refers to a previous age when life was closer to chaos. Species were less defined and people would be born with all sorts of animal parts such as horns, tails or scaly skin. It not only reminds me of the physiology of the children and the age of their species, but also all the other strange people from the world book and the Targaryen lizard babies
Also the crucible was once part of the world tree but has been disconnected from the rest of the root system, but sometimes people are still born with crucible features and are treated like demons and abominations and slaves
Poor Meera. Having to take your brother to a place like this and see him get weaker and weaker as time passes. When Bran comes back she's not here so I assume maybe she was with the Children when they killed Jojen, maybe she had to be restrained idk. Either way I feel so bad for her. Jojen was her brother. Although I have to admit I laugh everytime Jojen paste is mentioned.
The last vision - a theory: It was probably during the age of heroes, after the long night (timeline heresy), and just before or during the time when Valyria was beginning to rise. The fact that the Stark isn’t “carrying out the sentence” himself by sacrificing the captive, means that what he’s doing is teaching the white-haired woman (Valyrian), how to do blood magic. He takes charge and pushes the man to his knees and primes him for the lady to come and do the deed. This coincides with Barth’s theory that the Valyrians used blood-magic to get dragons from wyvern stock. It is said that the Valyrians were sheep herders before being dragonlords; so how come they hadn’t been harassed by dragons stealing their sheep all this time? How did they just suddenly “find” dragons in the fourteen flames and learn to tame them? Where did the sheep herders get such knowledge? Barth’s theory fits here as an answer: they got dragons from wyverns living in the volcanoes, hence why their sheep herding trade didn’t go to hell because of dragon assaults before. And they learned the blood magic when one of them (while somehow visiting a great first-man king in Westeros) was taught blood-magic by the wierwood worshippers, and learned to use it in a Valyrian context. Since blood magic is often used in a fantasy setting for genetic alterations, also since different species can’t just mate and produce viable offspring (e.g. the Ibbenese and mainlanders), it probably would make sense that the first men used blood magic to make green men from a genetic combination of children of the forest and first men, and deep one hybrids like Sistermen from squishes and first men, and the Valyrians did the same thing between them and wyverns to make dragons that were specifically bound to them. Not to say that dragons didn’t exist before, just saying they didn’t tame any existing dragons, they bound them to themselves genetically. And that is why to this day they are considered part dragon, and sometimes have lizard babies. A stretch maybe? Or a viable theory?
look I don't the white haired woman is anything other than an old woman and the rest of theory is making some real leaps, however, youre the first one who I've heard point out that "the Stark is not carrying out the sentence" in that vision, which reveals a different custom. That's very interesting on its own
@@DavidLightbringer Lol you’re right it is a huge leap. Didn’t think it out too much it just kinda popped into my head. I didn’t realize no one saw the whole “sentence” thing though. Glad it’s in the conversation now!
Snowylocks and the other Children are like the crones of Vaes Dothrak. Feeding Dany rital bloody heart. And singing. A remnant of their contacts with the Ifequevron I think.
@DavidLightbringer 2:47:48 - It seems like Wargs can hear voices from the trees at the very least, if not recently dead people. and definitely wargs. Bran can speak to Hofor but he doesn't like it so he hides... But Bran speaks to him in his head. Veramir went into the woman but she definitely didn't like it... Ned hears Bran talk to him when Bran is first trying to travel time in the WWnet. Arya hears Syrio telling her where to go/what to do after Ned is killed... implies Syrio was a warg (and potentially a faceless man/Jaquen who talks to her after his death and then takes over the body of the guy in the cells... that would explain why Rorge and Biter don't fuck with him at all... Would you after seeing your buddy fucking get body snatched while in a cage with you? Arya hears someone else when in Bravos but I forget who... Maybe they are wargs entering softly or maybe it's an ability wargs have to hear the dead or recently dead. Ned just never really pursued it. He's too straight-laced and all business. But he gave the children direwolves without a second thought pretty much. Well slight prodding but I've needed more prodding to let my kid have ice cream, these are fucking wolves and these are kids as young as 4! Idk... I got more but I'm tiired... look into it.
Tin hat theory time: In Norse mythology the death of Baldr puts in motion Ragnarok. Baldr is associated with light and according to Wikipedia his name stems from the Proto-Germanic theonym *Balðraz ('hero' or 'prince'). So Balder is a prince of light, who’s death prophesies the start of Ragnarok. Like a prince that is promised to died and bring about the start of the long night? One that the others would be very interested in finding and potentially killing? You know if he wasn’t already killed by his brother, just like Baldr.
RE: Swan Song logo: "The original artwork, "Evening (The Fall of Day)", is said to be a depiction of Apollo, the Olympian god of the sun and light, done sometime around 1870 by the American painter William Rimmer."
that's an interesting question actually, whether the physical memory of how to do somethig like climb or throw a baseball comes with the mind or the body
I see Bran as a partial analog to Cole ("Coal") from 12 Monkeys. He is also a time traveler with a nearly supernatural memory. I believe Bran will witness his own death, likely from the perspective of the weirwoods. Another apparent theme is that the past is already written; recall that Cole returns to the past many times without improving the world's situation. One cannot fix the past and humanity will have to start anew, the catastrophe will be unavoidable
@DavidLightbringer a quote from an essay about La Jetee (12 Monkeys is a loose adaptation): What [the protagonist] finds ... is that the past is never as simple as we wish it to be. To return to it is to realize that we never understood it. He also finds-and here it is impossible to miss Marker's message for his viewers-a person cannot escape from their own time, anyway. Try as we might to lose ourselves, we will always be dragged back into the world, into the here and now. Ultimately, there is no escape from the present."
This was such a great chapter. I love when Tim joins you for a re-read! Thanks for providing such great conversation and community! You mentioned The Mountain as a moon figure, does that make Ser Robert Strong, a Night's Queen figure? Or maybe that more technically belongs to Cersei/Qyburn?
Your discussion about the Old Tounge and the True Tounge got me thinking about Earthsea by Ursula K Le Guin. In that world there is a magic language called Old Speech also known as the True Speech. If you know somthings True Name you have power over it. This goes for humans as well. So you have to keep your True Name a secret.
Greetings from Chattanooga, TN. Excellent job reading! Like hearing a favorite song again, that's how it feels to me to hear these words again. It's been a long time since I last read them. Never did I hear them spoken. Different parts of the brain are activated each way, it helps to create a whole picture.
Weren’t the giants the Children’s “bane” and also their brothers? Bran warging Hodor gives me greenseer kings warging into Giants to use them as weapons in their wars against the children vibes
Dave! I’d really love to see a character analysis and/or rereads for Sansa. I’ve recently become super intruiged by the direction she will go in the books. She is definitely being carved into a Nights Queen figure by little finger and, while I’m very stoned right now and I’m struggling, but I feel very concerned about her upcoming role. Lol Love the channel, I’ve watched every epidode at least once, some a few times. There’s alot to chew on and it’s all entertaining. Keep doin your best work!
this was a lot of fun to watch; I have always been so fascinated with ASOIAF Bran. His chapters are right there with Dany's in terms of my favorite POVs.
The fact that George RR Martin planted "Hodor" at the begining with the potential "hold the door" reference in the very first book is just mindblowing! Chefs kiss!
“But the weirwood could not talk, so he could not”. I wonder if Bran could talk through the Nightfort weirwood, and influence events throughout time through that.
Excellent chapter, stupendous analysis. Total agreement with your take on AI - may it be used to give medical fields leaps and bounds and help school children learn better , and may more and more people grow to realize AI cannot (should not!) replace Human artists! Love to you both (LML / GWT) and all other users in the chat ♥
The candles in the House of Black and White smell similarly to the tast of Weirwood paste and Shade of the Evening. Maybe the candles are made of human fat, among other things. Bran looks at the flame before his visions. I think that is important. It is a parallel to the R'hllor fire visions and the glass candles.
49:00 the way I see, to enter the wwnet you need to be a Green seer, Azor Ahai wasn't, so he forced his way in and expelled the others, and got stuck, impaled, like the ones Bran sees, and as whatever were the wwnet before Azor Ahai's invasion is now stuck as the Others, they need Bran, and the others Green Seers to invade again, so they can return to the place where they belong
Bran & Bloodraven's relationship has the constant shadow of Jon in the background - my thought is that Bloodraven has been warging Ghost from the beginning, which many fans out there also think, but I'm convinced that when Jon is resurrected in "salt & smoke", meaning blood (salt) & fire (smoke) that Bloodraven will simultaeneously die in the cave, & via Ghost will merge his personality with Jon. Hence the emphasis on Bran's ability to occupy Hodor's mind, Varimir's almost successful attempt to do it with the wildling woman (forget her name), it's nt just foreshadowing for Bran doing this to others, although he almost certainly will. It signifies that Bloodraven was doing this in the past, & is going to do it permanently to Jon, making Jon a composite character.
I really doubt that GRRM would remove Jon's agency, but I do see a Bloodraven involvement in Jon's unlife. I also think Jon will be temporarily stolen by the Others, so maybe Bloodraven helps free him
I also noticed a connection between Earth Wind Fire and Water.. The Ironborn sacrifice to water.. the dragons sacrifice to fire.. the children sacrifice to the trees and earth.. the others are said to be made of air and wind.
To anyone concerned about whether Zombie Jon can consumate with Dany, don't worry! George has already explained how this will work: "Once the heart has ceased to beat, a man's blood runs down into his extremities, where it thickens and congeals." His voice rattled in his throat, as thin and gaunt as he was. "His hands and feet swell up and turn as black as pudding. The rest of him becomes as white as milk." - ADWD "Sausage," said Dirk. "Them long black ones, they're like rocks, they keep for years." -ASOS
Can weirwood trees speak to wargs psychically? Like how does Arya hear Syrio's voice pushing her on after he dies? What I'm getting at is that Ned, known for being pretty straight edge as far as things go, was really quick to let the kids have the wolf pups... seems out of character. Was the WWnet influencing him? Like the disembodied mind of the trees enlisting his help against the others? He has 4 kids where at least 2 are insanely crazy wargs yet he has no powers? What if he just denies his powers or has them but doesn't acknowledge them or realize what they are. When I picture Ned I picture him sitting at the base of the heart tree in the castle, oiling his sword at the edge of the water, and thinking deeply about serious shit... That's literally the embodiment of Ned in an image, Basically, like he is chatting with the WW tree, or for some reason the WW makes him feel a certain way to where he unconsciously finds himself repeatedly going to this spot so they can influence his thoughts or at least spy on his thoughts so they can influence him in the real world... like by sending wolves... and then pushing him to allow the kids to keep them. Or is there a power not known or spoken about the Starks carry where they can hear the dead? Arya does a few times and I never hear it brought up in any serious way. If she can, wouldn't Ned potentially be able to? Maybe he thinks it's his own thoughts he is hearing or maybe he just doesn't tell anyone he can hear dead people sometimes. Re-read the Tower of Joy part where he remembers finding Lyanna in a be of blood. Is she still alive with that much blood? Did her warg spirit talk to him instead of finding a body? Or maybe not even talk to the dead but just a warg spirit gently entering to speak to him instead of finding a second life? I have never heard this idea put out... it's either that dumb or I am the first I know of to have put it together. edit: Is it Rickon or Bran who knows when Ned dies in Winterfell? How did he know??!?!? Dead Ned told him.... hearing the dead is a power they have!!!! Or Ned is second lifing it to speak to his kid! It is too consistent! That's too many times the Starks had heard dead people.
Ravens speak the True Tongue--The implication is that the world itself is magic, that life itself is magic, that plants and animals spring magically from the earth, and that it is all connected. And there was one True Language that the Children of the Forest taught to the First Men, and that the ravens spoke it too because they were naturally intelligent creatures. The ravens are still used to pass messages by the Maesters but the Masters can only partially engage the ravens because the Maesters speak a lesser (corrupted?) speech. The True Tongue is the language that God spoke to Adam, that Vishnu spoke to Brahma.
The sacrifice by the "snowylocks" at WF,where Bran tastes the man's blood should make Bran consider that very possibly the stuff he ate from the bowl to wed the tree was his pal Jojen who was being brave not long before.
32:00 Obnoxious Tinfoil Maester pedantry: Are we sure the True Tongue is necessarily a language as we understand it? This is Bran III after all, where pitfalls of figurative vs literal abound. Maybe "speaking" the True Tongue isn't speaking in the conventional sense? Just spitballing here, it cooooould be sharing memories through Hivemind skinchangery? Like, if two ancient Hivemind avatars meet up, they're not gonna speak with the slow and clunky medium of mOuThS aNd EaRs. They would speak in the "tongue" of projected visions, like Quaithe & 3EC do. A power belonging to powerful greenmagic users. I.e. those that still live in the ravens, hence the ravens still speaking the true tongue.
Reflecting on the taboos Verimyr Six Skins was taught compared to seemingly Blood Raven not acknowledging or caring about the same… One interpretation of that is that GRRM is showing the differences between human’s more individualistic morals and the Children’s more collective outtake on things. Could of course be like is speculated by DL and T that it’s because Blood Raven is indeed guiding/training Bran towards something where those taboos aren’t helpful or needed. The ways those taboos are described is that they are to protect the skinchanger from loosing his/her identity as self or even as human. That idea might neutrally be something that is not even a thing and therefore not something perceived as dangerous from the Children’s way of experiencing life.
Men can no longer remember the “true tongue “. Possibly not speak the tongue but still hear it if not understand it? The further back he goes, do the occupants eventually “hear” him? Amendment. Only those who have known the Greenseer can hear their voice in the true tongue?
I only know it from the Tabletop Roleplaying Game "Call of Cthulhu". It is in their version the Dreamlands. Same with the "The Cult of the Sandbat" from the "Masks of Nyarlathotep". So it could be the Extended Mythos or other influences. Someone here would know.
The Children sing far below and the Ravens peck at Bran arms… are those songs working against Humans and the Children in the Ravens attack him a little in response?….always wondered if there are far more Children still than they’re letting on. Their large eyes are better for darkness, didn’t they develop underground?… It would be interesting if Bran learns their language in the Net and they don’t realize it! Like Dany and the Slaver. They could reveal their real feelings and plans, and what they did to Jojen. Smugly assuming Bran can still not understand. That could be why he and Meera run for it…
1:51:40. (I accidentally watched most of this steam on lengthy delays and it was so amazingly done that I needed a thorough rewatch) where I live, Vancouver, British Columbia, is on unceded traditional First Nations territory that was never ceded or legally signed away to the Crown or to Canada.The language still lives and we have Totem poles. The trees remember. Think it may be an inspiration for culture beyond the wall?
you know I have compared Bloodraven to a totem pole i the line where he's described as a ghostly wooden statue... and then there are those 3 NW rangers whose heads are planted on spears that are like weirwood totems... but yeah the trees remember. I'll have to think about this more
@@DavidLightbringer I think there is more too this. Moat Cailen vid playing with maps. Perhaps, beyond the wall is northern Canada/Alaska but Skagos is Iceland? Volcanic?
@@DavidLightbringer sorry for being so vague in the first bit. I’m from a family of deadheads. Hence my pf. Hippies we’re really into indigenous phycodelics and the beyond the wall peoples history reminds me of our own. Praise Garth
One idea I love is that Bloodraven appears here as a 'redeemed' character. In his youth, he used his power to try and pull the puppet strings of history towards "the greater good", but now he actually understands his role better. In another place he talks about his own ghosts, the times when he tried to use his green seer power to change the fate of certain people and events, unsuccessfully. I think the Bloodraven we see here is not necessarily bad or good, but he's guiding Bran to fill a role beyond humanity's provincial conception of time and morality. He's a great parallel for Azor Ahai in that sense - a character who had strong conviction of right and wrong, who has now been humbled and put in their correct place
The rushlight is, I think, an underrated reference to the aesop's fable of the rushlight. The lesson is very much one of hubris, and is directly compared to a star, which I think may be relevant to the others in asoiaf. I very much do not believe Bloodraven is the three eyed crow, so while I love listening to your analysis, I think this is one aspect you should absolutely reconsider. I think it's very likely that Bloodraven is responsible for the return of the others, and this fits with the overarching theme of mankind being the creators of their own possible destruction, the makers of their own fate. The idea that Bloodraven didn't know he was a crow in Bran's dream seems ridiculous to me, the crow talked about having wings with Bran, so there is no reasonable explanation to me for Bloodraven not understanding what Bran is talking about. I don't think it's insignificant that there is no predecessor to Bloodraven in the series. One can only be brave when they are afraid, and fear is for the long night when the white walkers come. Bran should fear the dark. I think the idea that Bloodraven will try to bodysnatch Bran is a good one.
Yup, the Haunter of the Dark he takes the form of a giant bat. It could also be referring to Houses Lothston and Whent who both ruled Harrenhal and had bats as their sigils. Bran's grandmother on his maternal side was a Whent and the Lothstons were most likely eyes for Bloodraven in the past.
Please leave a like and a comment to support David and Tim! Subscribe if you haven’t already. This is a very real way to support some of the most thought provoking ASOIAF content on UTube.
3:096:20 - He hears Bran... The clues are right there! "He cannot *see* me" and "The WW tree cannot talk so therefore *I CAN"T*" Bran cannot talk but Ned can HEAR him! That's a psychic link. Ned can hear shit Psychicly! It's not Bran being so powerful(at this point at least but he has yet to show this ability anywhen. Who else can hear people that are dead or are wargs? Arya! Who did they get these crazy rare powers from? THEIR DAD!!!! Maybe I teensy bit from Catlynn as she might have a recessive gene for warging as they have for blue eyes. I know I keep posting about it but this seems like a HUGE deal that few have picked up on. And the ones that have decided to drop it for whatever reason. I'm guessing since it was very early on and with such a large gap from the first hint(s) to this point that people have put blinders up to any of the clues... or I'm just dumb and possibly high, or just feel that way from a lack of sleep (13-15 hours since last Thursday with 5 of those being yesterday afternoon. so thats12 days now) that could be a contributing factor to me being excited about something easily debunkable... idk... 🤷♂ Edit - followup: 3:18:18 - ish So I don't forget while I look for my copy and this page... I want to be sure this is the correct way to interpret this scene. If this is somehow not in the past, who else do we see who might want to kill someone like that That's the same way Cat was killed... could this somehow be a Frey she is getting revenge on? Could she be talking to Bran through the tree network since she is a fire wight? As far as the scene goes she has no control over it and it is presenting as someone from his past... when he was just a seedling. The scenery changed but not the avatar for the person. Or maybe she is powerful enough as a wight to control the background she appears in. Would be kinda cool as a theory for the afterlife. The WWnet grabs your spark/soul/identity and creates a custom world for you based on what they judge your life to have been...? I'm literally falling asleep as I type....
You've probably explained this, and I've probably heard you explain it, but where do you think dragons are from? Were they in the earth and were woken by the comet, or literally from the moon? If so, why and also how. Or they were always around and the fallout of the meteor caused them to migrate
Tim has a good point about Ned trusting Cat with Jon’s secret, but Ned was also protecting his family from Robert’s wrath if the secret was ever found out.
Time is a river, and the seasons used to flow with that river, but something has dammed the river of time. We get a more literal version of this in "The Sworn Sword." The plot of that story is literally about a dam. Like with a weir in a dam, the summer has been dammed to temporarily save the world from a long winter, but bringing back balance is almost more difficult. Upstream of the dam is plentiful water and resources, fish etc... Downstream, however, the resources are depleted. Damming leads to unevenness in what was originally a healthy river, until it decreases to a trickle or even dries up (like the Colorado river)
My coolest raven encounter was when I made a raven noise at a raven and said "Hello" and he proceeded to say my poorly imitated raven noise back at me and said "Hello" in two different voices.
2:27. On the rewatch. There is no Stark in Winterfell. Could it be possible that the lower levels were intentionally baracaded because this happened before?
@David Lightbringer not quite sure how it would fit together or what other factors might be involved, but maybe it’s the Greenseer resurrection that calls the Comet or Moon? Azor Ahai originally, Jon for the new one. Thoughts? Bran pushes down the wall Jon allows or “leads” the WWs past it
About the First Men adopting tCotF religion: GRRM has a bunch of stories where sacrifice to the hive mind is a trick, a form of warfare. And consider the (at least) *three kinds of burials* we know of in the North: The Barrowlands - I forget, but aren't these burial mounds belonging to ancient kings - from before the Stark reign, and even before the Long Night? The Children helping save humanity in the LN is good reason for the FM to adopt the Children's tree religion, *BUT* - the Starks do not partake. Going into the trees sounds antithetical to humans' sense of individuality, it sounds creepy and bad. The few times being given to the trees is mentioned in the North (below the Wall) - it is a punishment, an execution reserved for criminals, no? (Bran's vision of the past + the Wolf's Den in White Harbor) The Starks do not wish to join the trees. They have their crypts. Though the crypts are reserved for Lords Stark, so that raises the question of how other family members were buried.
I have a feeling that Bloodraven's line about not being able to reach the past is tied to the foreshadowing that Bran will make some major mistakes with his powers.
I'm not sure he literally meant it's impossible to intervene in past/future events, but that perhaps there's some element of fate or causality at play here. When a seer intervenes, that's what was always supposed to happen. You can speak and they may hear, but nothing has truly changed.
The green seers can bear witness to history and know the truth, but are powerless to intervene directly
Dave & Tim are the best odd couple the ASOIAF commentary community has birthed.
I’d watch that sitcom
Absolutely, I love how they play off each other ❤
Tim is the unassuming, quiet student that sits in the back of class while David is the boisterous pothead that brings him out of his shell after they bond over a common interest lol.
@@NancyRaygun_David a pothead? Nah no way. He is just a creative artsy lively energetic person who loves fantasy and fiction and is kind of a nerd. That doesn't mean he is a pothead.....
He could also be both at different times. As the pothead (pots are hot and so is the sun) david "hits" a bowl (crater), the resulting smoke blots out the creative artsy david's train of thought. The mythical astronomy is ripe.
The terrific twosome, dave and tim knocking it out of the park, really like the idea wierwood faces were like the black gate until azor ahai invaded, long live the lord of loud, bringer of chaos, goose the great
Great stream! Just wanted to add on the subject of weirwoods and life being from space, water is likely present on earth because of a series of collisions with ice rich asteroids ~3billion years ago. These impacts brought water to the cooling earth after any water would have boiled off the molten planet after the formation of the moon. The time period is called the late heavy bombardment and complex life would likely not have evolved here without it.
Cool info!
In Elden Ring there is a concept called the crucible, which refers to a previous age when life was closer to chaos. Species were less defined and people would be born with all sorts of animal parts such as horns, tails or scaly skin. It not only reminds me of the physiology of the children and the age of their species, but also all the other strange people from the world book and the Targaryen lizard babies
Also the crucible was once part of the world tree but has been disconnected from the rest of the root system, but sometimes people are still born with crucible features and are treated like demons and abominations and slaves
And its ambiguous but the end of the story suggests that the world tree is from space in a sort of panspermia kind of way
I can’t help but think that Bran invades Hodor like Azor Ahai invaded the Weirwood
I LOVE the Tim streams! Y'all's dynamic is fantastic, please keep it coming.
Poor Meera. Having to take your brother to a place like this and see him get weaker and weaker as time passes. When Bran comes back she's not here so I assume maybe she was with the Children when they killed Jojen, maybe she had to be restrained idk. Either way I feel so bad for her. Jojen was her brother. Although I have to admit I laugh everytime Jojen paste is mentioned.
The last vision - a theory: It was probably during the age of heroes, after the long night (timeline heresy), and just before or during the time when Valyria was beginning to rise. The fact that the Stark isn’t “carrying out the sentence” himself by sacrificing the captive, means that what he’s doing is teaching the white-haired woman (Valyrian), how to do blood magic. He takes charge and pushes the man to his knees and primes him for the lady to come and do the deed. This coincides with Barth’s theory that the Valyrians used blood-magic to get dragons from wyvern stock. It is said that the Valyrians were sheep herders before being dragonlords; so how come they hadn’t been harassed by dragons stealing their sheep all this time? How did they just suddenly “find” dragons in the fourteen flames and learn to tame them? Where did the sheep herders get such knowledge? Barth’s theory fits here as an answer: they got dragons from wyverns living in the volcanoes, hence why their sheep herding trade didn’t go to hell because of dragon assaults before. And they learned the blood magic when one of them (while somehow visiting a great first-man king in Westeros) was taught blood-magic by the wierwood worshippers, and learned to use it in a Valyrian context. Since blood magic is often used in a fantasy setting for genetic alterations, also since different species can’t just mate and produce viable offspring (e.g. the Ibbenese and mainlanders), it probably would make sense that the first men used blood magic to make green men from a genetic combination of children of the forest and first men, and deep one hybrids like Sistermen from squishes and first men, and the Valyrians did the same thing between them and wyverns to make dragons that were specifically bound to them. Not to say that dragons didn’t exist before, just saying they didn’t tame any existing dragons, they bound them to themselves genetically. And that is why to this day they are considered part dragon, and sometimes have lizard babies. A stretch maybe? Or a viable theory?
look I don't the white haired woman is anything other than an old woman and the rest of theory is making some real leaps, however, youre the first one who I've heard point out that "the Stark is not carrying out the sentence" in that vision, which reveals a different custom. That's very interesting on its own
@@DavidLightbringer Lol you’re right it is a huge leap. Didn’t think it out too much it just kinda popped into my head. I didn’t realize no one saw the whole “sentence” thing though. Glad it’s in the conversation now!
Loving the content! It's just what I need on my Monday commute to work. Thanks David and Tim! 😊
Snowylocks and the other Children are like the crones of Vaes Dothrak. Feeding Dany rital bloody heart. And singing. A remnant of their contacts with the Ifequevron I think.
@DavidLightbringer 2:47:48 - It seems like Wargs can hear voices from the trees at the very least, if not recently dead people. and definitely wargs. Bran can speak to Hofor but he doesn't like it so he hides... But Bran speaks to him in his head. Veramir went into the woman but she definitely didn't like it... Ned hears Bran talk to him when Bran is first trying to travel time in the WWnet. Arya hears Syrio telling her where to go/what to do after Ned is killed... implies Syrio was a warg (and potentially a faceless man/Jaquen who talks to her after his death and then takes over the body of the guy in the cells... that would explain why Rorge and Biter don't fuck with him at all... Would you after seeing your buddy fucking get body snatched while in a cage with you? Arya hears someone else when in Bravos but I forget who... Maybe they are wargs entering softly or maybe it's an ability wargs have to hear the dead or recently dead. Ned just never really pursued it. He's too straight-laced and all business. But he gave the children direwolves without a second thought pretty much. Well slight prodding but I've needed more prodding to let my kid have ice cream, these are fucking wolves and these are kids as young as 4!
Idk... I got more but I'm tiired... look into it.
Bran: I don't wanna marry the trees, grandpa.
Blood Raven: WELL THAT'S TOO DAMN BAD!!!
1:30:26 Don’t forget Jon will also now be guided by Melisandre to fit her own Azor Ahai agenda
Bran is *Bran* -ching out to his brother in a dream as a tree, and trees have BRANches. Very sneaky, George 🤔
Tin hat theory time: In Norse mythology the death of Baldr puts in motion Ragnarok. Baldr is associated with light and according to Wikipedia his name stems from the Proto-Germanic theonym *Balðraz ('hero' or 'prince'). So Balder is a prince of light, who’s death prophesies the start of Ragnarok. Like a prince that is promised to died and bring about the start of the long night? One that the others would be very interested in finding and potentially killing? You know if he wasn’t already killed by his brother, just like Baldr.
oh OK that's an interesting comp, Jon and Baldr. I'll have to think on that
Nice 👍
Epic read-through. It's a joy to listen. Thank you David and Tim :)
That was fun! I WILL go rewatch the Moat Cailin video again! 😃 It was fascinating!
Great chapter. I love the discussions you two have. Still trying to catch you guys live! Cheers!
RE: Swan Song logo: "The original artwork, "Evening (The Fall of Day)", is said to be a depiction of Apollo, the Olympian god of the sun and light, done sometime around 1870 by the American painter William Rimmer."
Awesome black cat at about 12:00 with a shiny beautiful coat. I'm a sucker for cats, have two of them myself!🐱😼🙃👍
2:10. It’s a red herring. Bran can warg into Hodor and climb down because he’s still an expert climber mentally? The door comes later?
that's an interesting question actually, whether the physical memory of how to do somethig like climb or throw a baseball comes with the mind or the body
I see Bran as a partial analog to Cole ("Coal") from 12 Monkeys. He is also a time traveler with a nearly supernatural memory. I believe Bran will witness his own death, likely from the perspective of the weirwoods. Another apparent theme is that the past is already written; recall that Cole returns to the past many times without improving the world's situation. One cannot fix the past and humanity will have to start anew, the catastrophe will be unavoidable
LOVE that movie so much
@DavidLightbringer a quote from an essay about La Jetee (12 Monkeys is a loose adaptation): What [the protagonist] finds ... is that the past is never as simple as we wish it to be. To return to it is to realize that we never understood it. He also finds-and here it is impossible to miss Marker's message for his viewers-a person cannot escape from their own time, anyway. Try as we might to lose ourselves, we will always be dragged back into the world, into the here and now. Ultimately, there is no escape from the present."
One of my favorite chapters. Great insight from both of you.
This was such a great chapter. I love when Tim joins you for a re-read! Thanks for providing such great conversation and community!
You mentioned The Mountain as a moon figure, does that make Ser Robert Strong, a Night's Queen figure? Or maybe that more technically belongs to Cersei/Qyburn?
Your discussion about the Old Tounge and the True Tounge got me thinking about Earthsea by Ursula K Le Guin. In that world there is a magic language called Old Speech also known as the True Speech. If you know somthings True Name you have power over it. This goes for humans as well. So you have to keep your True Name a secret.
Pretty sure the speech of the elves is like that in Eragon too, and that you can't lie in that speech. It's a pretty cool idea
This is exactly what happens in the Eragon saga too. Maybe Paolini got the idea from her.
fantastic stream!
“There must always be a Stark in Winterfell”. Yeah, in the crypts, under the godshome, cradled in the weirwood roots, greenseeing.
Greetings from Chattanooga, TN. Excellent job reading! Like hearing a favorite song again, that's how it feels to me to hear these words again. It's been a long time since I last read them. Never did I hear them spoken. Different parts of the brain are activated each way, it helps to create a whole picture.
This is one of my favorite chapters in the series. I remember starting it over and over again during my first read. Love this video so much
i gotta give you guys an applause for this reading.
'almost made a political reference...i did freeze for a second tho' 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Weren’t the giants the Children’s “bane” and also their brothers? Bran warging Hodor gives me greenseer kings warging into Giants to use them as weapons in their wars against the children vibes
Dave! I’d really love to see a character analysis and/or rereads for Sansa. I’ve recently become super intruiged by the direction she will go in the books. She is definitely being carved into a Nights Queen figure by little finger and, while I’m very stoned right now and I’m struggling, but I feel very concerned about her upcoming role. Lol
Love the channel, I’ve watched every epidode at least once, some a few times. There’s alot to chew on and it’s all entertaining. Keep doin your best work!
we did her snow castle chapter recently I think
this was a lot of fun to watch; I have always been so fascinated with ASOIAF Bran. His chapters are right there with Dany's in terms of my favorite POVs.
I'm loving these chapter reads!
Side note: Daemon melts my heart with his sweet meow and swishy tail. He's so precious. ❤😺❤
The fact that George RR Martin planted "Hodor" at the begining with the potential "hold the door" reference in the very first book is just mindblowing! Chefs kiss!
“But the weirwood could not talk, so he could not”.
I wonder if Bran could talk through the Nightfort weirwood, and influence events throughout time through that.
Excellent chapter, stupendous analysis. Total agreement with your take on AI - may it be used to give medical fields leaps and bounds and help school children learn better , and may more and more people grow to realize AI cannot (should not!) replace Human artists! Love to you both (LML / GWT) and all other users in the chat ♥
The candles in the House of Black and White smell similarly to the tast of Weirwood paste and Shade of the Evening. Maybe the candles are made of human fat, among other things. Bran looks at the flame before his visions. I think that is important. It is a parallel to the R'hllor fire visions and the glass candles.
I also think that Melisandre's burning of weirwood is not only religious intolerance, but a way to harness their magic power.
Perhaps it is a way to set the souls, that are trapped in the weirwood, free?
Is the weirwood afterlife a heaven or a hell? Or something in-between?
Jon also falls asleep in front of a candle more than once.
49:00 the way I see, to enter the wwnet you need to be a Green seer, Azor Ahai wasn't, so he forced his way in and expelled the others, and got stuck, impaled, like the ones Bran sees, and as whatever were the wwnet before Azor Ahai's invasion is now stuck as the Others, they need Bran, and the others Green Seers to invade again, so they can return to the place where they belong
Bran & Bloodraven's relationship has the constant shadow of Jon in the background - my thought is that Bloodraven has been warging Ghost from the beginning, which many fans out there also think, but I'm convinced that when Jon is resurrected in "salt & smoke", meaning blood (salt) & fire (smoke) that Bloodraven will simultaeneously die in the cave, & via Ghost will merge his personality with Jon. Hence the emphasis on Bran's ability to occupy Hodor's mind, Varimir's almost successful attempt to do it with the wildling woman (forget her name), it's nt just foreshadowing for Bran doing this to others, although he almost certainly will. It signifies that Bloodraven was doing this in the past, & is going to do it permanently to Jon, making Jon a composite character.
I really doubt that GRRM would remove Jon's agency, but I do see a Bloodraven involvement in Jon's unlife. I also think Jon will be temporarily stolen by the Others, so maybe Bloodraven helps free him
I also noticed a connection between Earth Wind Fire and Water.. The Ironborn sacrifice to water.. the dragons sacrifice to fire.. the children sacrifice to the trees and earth.. the others are said to be made of air and wind.
To anyone concerned about whether Zombie Jon can consumate with Dany, don't worry! George has already explained how this will work:
"Once the heart has ceased to beat, a man's blood runs down into his extremities, where it thickens and congeals." His voice rattled in his throat, as thin and gaunt as he was. "His hands and feet swell up and turn as black as pudding. The rest of him becomes as white as milk." - ADWD
"Sausage," said Dirk. "Them long black ones, they're like rocks, they keep for years." -ASOS
Still a better love story than Twilight 🥹💀
oh my
Wait what?😦 Really? 😟I'm confused. 😳
What the actual fork
His penile tip will have swelled to the point where it looks like a baby arm holding an apple
Thank you for another insightful chapter reread.
Daemon the cat tried to steal the show, but as always Dave and Tim kill it with the voices, theories and symbolism! Love the team!
Came a few days late but listening to you guys as I sleep is a great part of my night! Keep up the amazing work fellows.
I wonder if bran will try to pilot the comet towards the heart of winter but by bringing it down to earth he destroys the wall instead
Love this collab. We want more Tim!
Snowylocks references Goldilocks, a story about a wolf that eats people and porridge thats just right. Bran is the wolf and Jojen is the porridge.
oh Jesus hello the porridge
thank you
Three bears, right?
@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 I knew I messed that up somehow. Ah well.
Can weirwood trees speak to wargs psychically? Like how does Arya hear Syrio's voice pushing her on after he dies?
What I'm getting at is that Ned, known for being pretty straight edge as far as things go, was really quick to let the kids have the wolf pups... seems out of character. Was the WWnet influencing him? Like the disembodied mind of the trees enlisting his help against the others? He has 4 kids where at least 2 are insanely crazy wargs yet he has no powers?
What if he just denies his powers or has them but doesn't acknowledge them or realize what they are. When I picture Ned I picture him sitting at the base of the heart tree in the castle, oiling his sword at the edge of the water, and thinking deeply about serious shit... That's literally the embodiment of Ned in an image, Basically, like he is chatting with the WW tree, or for some reason the WW makes him feel a certain way to where he unconsciously finds himself repeatedly going to this spot so they can influence his thoughts or at least spy on his thoughts so they can influence him in the real world... like by sending wolves... and then pushing him to allow the kids to keep them.
Or is there a power not known or spoken about the Starks carry where they can hear the dead? Arya does a few times and I never hear it brought up in any serious way. If she can, wouldn't Ned potentially be able to? Maybe he thinks it's his own thoughts he is hearing or maybe he just doesn't tell anyone he can hear dead people sometimes.
Re-read the Tower of Joy part where he remembers finding Lyanna in a be of blood. Is she still alive with that much blood? Did her warg spirit talk to him instead of finding a body? Or maybe not even talk to the dead but just a warg spirit gently entering to speak to him instead of finding a second life? I have never heard this idea put out... it's either that dumb or I am the first I know of to have put it together.
edit: Is it Rickon or Bran who knows when Ned dies in Winterfell? How did he know??!?!? Dead Ned told him.... hearing the dead is a power they have!!!! Or Ned is second lifing it to speak to his kid! It is too consistent! That's too many times the Starks had heard dead people.
I want the POV chapter where Bran learns to flip through time and realizes he fckin ATE. JOJEN. 😂
1:45 maybe icarus in his joyous flight, before the wings melt
Bran probably also spoke to Jon about Ghost. He heard something that Bran only discerned as sounds of nature…
Brynden Blackfish also inherits a lot of Brynden Rivers' character. He is Robb's eyes and ears.
He is Robb's tongue and fingers
Now he's kinda robb's whole body / legacy
Amazing as always 👽💪🌳
Ravens speak the True Tongue--The implication is that the world itself is magic, that life itself is magic, that plants and animals spring magically from the earth, and that it is all connected. And there was one True Language that the Children of the Forest taught to the First Men, and that the ravens spoke it too because they were naturally intelligent creatures. The ravens are still used to pass messages by the Maesters but the Masters can only partially engage the ravens because the Maesters speak a lesser (corrupted?) speech. The True Tongue is the language that God spoke to Adam, that Vishnu spoke to Brahma.
RE: DEFINITION of "stark"
3. ARCHAIC•LITERARY
stiff, rigid, or incapable of movement.
"a human body lying stiff and stark by the stream
Sounds like a living statue to me
sounds like lady stoneheart
@@DavidLightbringer oh yeah, the stream from the example sentence. Good 👁
The sacrifice by the "snowylocks" at WF,where Bran tastes the man's blood should make Bran consider that very possibly the stuff he ate from the bowl to wed the tree was his pal Jojen who was being brave not long before.
32:00 Obnoxious Tinfoil Maester pedantry: Are we sure the True Tongue is necessarily a language as we understand it? This is Bran III after all, where pitfalls of figurative vs literal abound. Maybe "speaking" the True Tongue isn't speaking in the conventional sense?
Just spitballing here, it cooooould be sharing memories through Hivemind skinchangery? Like, if two ancient Hivemind avatars meet up, they're not gonna speak with the slow and clunky medium of mOuThS aNd EaRs. They would speak in the "tongue" of projected visions, like Quaithe & 3EC do. A power belonging to powerful greenmagic users. I.e. those that still live in the ravens, hence the ravens still speaking the true tongue.
Counterpoint to the ents in LotR
Paraphrase: he heard a silent shout
Reflecting on the taboos Verimyr Six Skins was taught compared to seemingly Blood Raven not acknowledging or caring about the same…
One interpretation of that is that GRRM is showing the differences between human’s more individualistic morals and the Children’s more collective outtake on things.
Could of course be like is speculated by DL and T that it’s because Blood Raven is indeed guiding/training Bran towards something where those taboos aren’t helpful or needed.
The ways those taboos are described is that they are to protect the skinchanger from loosing his/her identity as self or even as human.
That idea might neutrally be something that is not even a thing and therefore not something perceived as dangerous from the Children’s way of experiencing life.
I found it a hell of a thing after reading ASOIAF all the way through, to climax with a POV of a tree! All that came after was anti-climax.
The Bran / Bryndon & Anakin / Palpatine comparison is chefs kiss
1:05:12 Isn't it actually a murder of crows and a conspiracy of ravens?
For it is the doom of men that they forget.
Merlin the Wizard
Men can no longer remember the “true tongue “. Possibly not speak the tongue but still hear it if not understand it? The further back he goes, do the occupants eventually “hear” him?
Amendment. Only those who have known the Greenseer can hear their voice in the true tongue?
Pls never stop. Love you from Pretoria, South Africa
never
The underground sea is also Lovecraft.
oh yeah where's that one from
I only know it from the Tabletop Roleplaying Game "Call of Cthulhu". It is in their version the Dreamlands. Same with the "The Cult of the Sandbat" from the "Masks of Nyarlathotep". So it could be the Extended Mythos or other influences. Someone here would know.
The adventures are from the 80s and George did play Roleplaying games back then so maybe he was influenced that way...
You spoke of a poem, was it "Dover beach" by "Matthew Arnold, where he talks about "A darkling plane"? That George used in A Song for Lya?
At the mountains of madness
The Children sing far below and the Ravens peck at Bran arms… are those songs working against Humans and the Children in the Ravens attack him a little in response?….always wondered if there are far more Children still than they’re letting on. Their large eyes are better for darkness, didn’t they develop underground?… It would be interesting if Bran learns their language in the Net and they don’t realize it! Like Dany and the Slaver. They could reveal their real feelings and plans, and what they did to Jojen. Smugly assuming Bran can still not understand. That could be why he and Meera run for it…
Sending out positive vibes to GRRM.
1:51:40. (I accidentally watched most of this steam on lengthy delays and it was so amazingly done that I needed a thorough rewatch) where I live, Vancouver, British Columbia, is on unceded traditional First Nations territory that was never ceded or legally signed away to the Crown or to Canada.The language still lives and we have Totem poles. The trees remember. Think it may be an inspiration for culture beyond the wall?
you know I have compared Bloodraven to a totem pole i the line where he's described as a ghostly wooden statue... and then there are those 3 NW rangers whose heads are planted on spears that are like weirwood totems... but yeah the trees remember. I'll have to think about this more
@@DavidLightbringer I think there is more too this. Moat Cailen vid playing with maps. Perhaps, beyond the wall is northern Canada/Alaska but Skagos is Iceland? Volcanic?
@@DavidLightbringer sorry for being so vague in the first bit. I’m from a family of deadheads. Hence my pf. Hippies we’re really into indigenous phycodelics and the beyond the wall peoples history reminds me of our own. Praise Garth
this is unrelated to the video but are there any charaters do you want to have a pov chapter coz i really want a tommen one
The cat is Damon Goldeneyes and went into the lion dream too strong.
This was a great read through. I remember reading this chapter for the first time.. thinking Whaaaa. So thanks guys
The white-haired woman holding the sickle gives me so much Night's Queen vibes, is it just me?
One idea I love is that Bloodraven appears here as a 'redeemed' character. In his youth, he used his power to try and pull the puppet strings of history towards "the greater good", but now he actually understands his role better. In another place he talks about his own ghosts, the times when he tried to use his green seer power to change the fate of certain people and events, unsuccessfully.
I think the Bloodraven we see here is not necessarily bad or good, but he's guiding Bran to fill a role beyond humanity's provincial conception of time and morality. He's a great parallel for Azor Ahai in that sense - a character who had strong conviction of right and wrong, who has now been humbled and put in their correct place
The rushlight is, I think, an underrated reference to the aesop's fable of the rushlight. The lesson is very much one of hubris, and is directly compared to a star, which I think may be relevant to the others in asoiaf. I very much do not believe Bloodraven is the three eyed crow, so while I love listening to your analysis, I think this is one aspect you should absolutely reconsider. I think it's very likely that Bloodraven is responsible for the return of the others, and this fits with the overarching theme of mankind being the creators of their own possible destruction, the makers of their own fate. The idea that Bloodraven didn't know he was a crow in Bran's dream seems ridiculous to me, the crow talked about having wings with Bran, so there is no reasonable explanation to me for Bloodraven not understanding what Bran is talking about. I don't think it's insignificant that there is no predecessor to Bloodraven in the series.
One can only be brave when they are afraid, and fear is for the long night when the white walkers come. Bran should fear the dark. I think the idea that Bloodraven will try to bodysnatch Bran is a good one.
Had a storm and internet went out on me yesterday, back at it on the rewatch to finish! I am determined! Lol
The giant bats are also Lovecraft, isn't it? Connected to Nyarlathotep I think.
Yup, the Haunter of the Dark he takes the form of a giant bat. It could also be referring to Houses Lothston and Whent who both ruled Harrenhal and had bats as their sigils. Bran's grandmother on his maternal side was a Whent and the Lothstons were most likely eyes for Bloodraven in the past.
Please leave a like and a comment to support David and Tim! Subscribe if you haven’t already. This is a very real way to support some of the most thought provoking ASOIAF content on UTube.
Loving the re-reads! 💚
2:58:40 there's a third encounter you guys didn't mention in ACOK where Jon sees brans face in a ww tree and I think heard as voice
was bloodraven following crow dreams when he ended up in that cave?
probably but we can't know for sure
I agree with you about Metallica not a big fan but if you listen to it you have to appreciate it. It’s pretty sick. Nice stream man
3:096:20 - He hears Bran... The clues are right there! "He cannot *see* me" and "The WW tree cannot talk so therefore *I CAN"T*" Bran cannot talk but Ned can HEAR him! That's a psychic link. Ned can hear shit Psychicly! It's not Bran being so powerful(at this point at least but he has yet to show this ability anywhen.
Who else can hear people that are dead or are wargs? Arya! Who did they get these crazy rare powers from? THEIR DAD!!!! Maybe I teensy bit from Catlynn as she might have a recessive gene for warging as they have for blue eyes.
I know I keep posting about it but this seems like a HUGE deal that few have picked up on. And the ones that have decided to drop it for whatever reason. I'm guessing since it was very early on and with such a large gap from the first hint(s) to this point that people have put blinders up to any of the clues... or I'm just dumb and possibly high, or just feel that way from a lack of sleep (13-15 hours since last Thursday with 5 of those being yesterday afternoon. so thats12 days now) that could be a contributing factor to me being excited about something easily debunkable... idk...
🤷♂
Edit - followup: 3:18:18 - ish So I don't forget while I look for my copy and this page... I want to be sure this is the correct way to interpret this scene. If this is somehow not in the past, who else do we see who might want to kill someone like that That's the same way Cat was killed... could this somehow be a Frey she is getting revenge on? Could she be talking to Bran through the tree network since she is a fire wight? As far as the scene goes she has no control over it and it is presenting as someone from his past... when he was just a seedling. The scenery changed but not the avatar for the person. Or maybe she is powerful enough as a wight to control the background she appears in. Would be kinda cool as a theory for the afterlife. The WWnet grabs your spark/soul/identity and creates a custom world for you based on what they judge your life to have been...? I'm literally falling asleep as I type....
This chapter is, so far, the most magical one.
Starting this from the beginning for the first time.
Wish I would’ve known how baked they both were lol this is fuckin hilarious
You've probably explained this, and I've probably heard you explain it, but where do you think dragons are from? Were they in the earth and were woken by the comet, or literally from the moon? If so, why and also how. Or they were always around and the fallout of the meteor caused them to migrate
Tim has a good point about Ned trusting Cat with Jon’s secret, but Ned was also protecting his family from Robert’s wrath if the secret was ever found out.
Time is a river, and the seasons used to flow with that river, but something has dammed the river of time. We get a more literal version of this in "The Sworn Sword." The plot of that story is literally about a dam. Like with a weir in a dam, the summer has been dammed to temporarily save the world from a long winter, but bringing back balance is almost more difficult.
Upstream of the dam is plentiful water and resources, fish etc...
Downstream, however, the resources are depleted.
Damming leads to unevenness in what was originally a healthy river, until it decreases to a trickle or even dries up (like the Colorado river)
Absolute king
Many trees would know when a year has passed because their leaves fall off.
Great stream as always thanks!
My coolest raven encounter was when I made a raven noise at a raven and said "Hello" and he proceeded to say my poorly imitated raven noise back at me and said "Hello" in two different voices.
This happened in a mall parking lot between a liquor store and a McDonald's which made it far less majestic than it should have been.
that's awesome thank you for sharing
From what I can find its the symbol of Apollo, the Olympian god of sun and light.
So when the Others speak and it sounds like ice cracking on a frozen lake, is that the True Tongue or a language apart?
2:27. On the rewatch. There is no Stark in Winterfell. Could it be possible that the lower levels were intentionally baracaded because this happened before?
@David Lightbringer not quite sure how it would fit together or what other factors might be involved, but maybe it’s the Greenseer resurrection that calls the Comet or Moon? Azor Ahai originally, Jon for the new one. Thoughts? Bran pushes down the wall Jon allows or “leads” the WWs past it
As always thanks very much! What is this art calendar you speak of?
About the First Men adopting tCotF religion:
GRRM has a bunch of stories where sacrifice to the hive mind is a trick, a form of warfare.
And consider the (at least) *three kinds of burials* we know of in the North:
The Barrowlands - I forget, but aren't these burial mounds belonging to ancient kings - from before the Stark reign, and even before the Long Night?
The Children helping save humanity in the LN is good reason for the FM to adopt the Children's tree religion, *BUT* - the Starks do not partake. Going into the trees sounds antithetical to humans' sense of individuality, it sounds creepy and bad.
The few times being given to the trees is mentioned in the North (below the Wall) - it is a punishment, an execution reserved for criminals, no?
(Bran's vision of the past + the Wolf's Den in White Harbor)
The Starks do not wish to join the trees. They have their crypts.
Though the crypts are reserved for Lords Stark, so that raises the question of how other family members were buried.