yeah it’s so easy to get by in those games without talking to anyone.. also in Elder Scrolls Online, I’ve never really made friends in the game. Personally, it doesn’t really bother me but I can understand why some people would… ironically the only time in years I’ve spoken to someone in the online games and kept in touch with for a while was in Fallout 76 lol
yeah I really enjoy GW2, but its designed around people floating in and out of your play area seamlessly. while that's neat, its kind of sad from a social perspective
@@Huntin4GamesChannel I love your video's, FFXI is a beautiful work of art, I started playing in 2006 and have played it solid for 5 years then on and off for another 5 and now off for a few years, the problem is its very hard to 5 box and have a 50 HR a week job haha! I loved the adventure, the music in the zones, using my chocobo to just travel and sight see.
Man i remember back in the prime days of FFXI it was like even if you were in part seek- people would message you and be like hey we need job x and you're that job and level- want to party with us- and because of how xp worked and how hard it could be to find a party usually the answer was "YES!" and then you're whole night plans changed lol
In FFXI, I felt unique and needed, not only in terms of my job but also making connections. After parties, people would add each other to friend list to keep track for next parties. In FFXIV, there is no such feeling at all. Everyone felt replacable, we didn’t know each other’s names, my friendlist has 0 people in it.
I was a stone cold beast at forming parties in XI. It was time consuming as hell a lot of the time, but after you got the right party balance, then everyone got to the camp, and everyone's gear was legit, and people were decent at their jobs, the XP would definitely flow. XI in its prime will always be the pinnacle of gaming.
Just as importantly to that though, the conversation would often organically flow too which is what made such a grind thoroughly enjoyable (on top of the amazing music, of course).
The only time i spoke to people in 14 was when some one disconnected during a dungeon and we had to wait for a replacement. And being able to stop, chat and take take it all in was one of the most enjoyable moments I've had in the whole game. Everyone always plays like they are trying to break the speedrunning record.
That's honestly what got me into FFXi. FFXIV everyone always raced throug dungeons and I never felt like I could have the real MMO experience, explore dungeons and connect with people
@@calebfairchild8745 when ppl don't have time and want things fast, that's how it is. Ffxi I loved the pace and challenge. Tho there were times in 14 that same thing happened when someone left the party and we sat down talking. It was great just sitting there having a conversation.
I only played FF14 through the main scenario quest and Heavensward expansion, but I never made a single friend while playing it. The fact that I was playing on Playstation might have influenced that. I remember buying a BT keyboard to try to socialise a little bit more, but it didn’t help much. It’s completely the opposite of FF11. I’m still in touch with the people I met in Vana’Diel and it’s been like 9 years since I last logged in. Also, I had a lot of friends who played FF11 on consoles, but they didn’t avoid social contact. So I’m guessing the Party Finder system indeed plays an important role there. Just like you said: FF11 forces you to communicate. There is no other way.
I think this is why I stopped playing FF14 for WoW Classic. There I could actually group up with people and make friends doing things like just questing. I might help someone with a FATE or something in 14, but there's barely any player to player interaction.
Same an 11 friend of mine told me to stick it out as shadow bringers was great but with no social interaction with anyone other than the odd dungeon I was learning really made 14 stale fast so barely finished Heavensward and tried multiple times. I played on PlayStation and PC too. where as 11 was almost always talking to someone somewhere.
Yep. Been playing XIV since 2013, the only friends I have in game are friends I know in real life who still play. I just treat it like a single-player RPG. The only social interaction in the game is just tenuous, surface-level etiquette and that's fine. Just gotta' expect it.
We actually did have a brief few months from the start of FFXIV ARR where there was no Party Finder system. We used to have to shout in the Moh Dhona for endgame party invites for Garuda, Ifrit, Titan fights and even early Binding Coil of Bahamut.
I think the anxiety comes because in old games you HAD to communicate and so you had real relationships at your fingertips which is less scary than disappointing complete strangers who just see you as an obstacle to efficiency.
Understanding how parties worked was a huge deal in the earlier days of FFXI. Even for casual players, how well you worked with others made a difference to your reputation. Because the grind to 75 was so slow, people often stayed within the same level ranges for a while. If you partied together well, people would remember you and would try to invite you again, even if you weren't a preferred exp party job (like THF with Viper Bite or Sidewinder RNG). being able to make unique party compositions were also super fun. SMN bomb parties, BST duos, even DRG healing. it paid off to experiment and try to break the mold
The social aspect of 75-era FFXI, which was necessary to progress, is exactly what made the game so memorable to people 20 years later. Like it or not, because we had to talk to each other, the game was so much more to us than the raw mechanics of gaining experience and farming for gear. Even when we weren't actively partying we would often log in just to chat with our friends while we were cleaning up our inventory after a long night of farming, or crafting, or mining. Modern MMOs, I will play for 6 months or a year or two and then just walk away, whatever. FFXI I played for 5 years straight and then came back ten years later for another year. No other game holds a place in my heart like FFXI, and I doubt one ever will.
FFXI DID have a system like Party Finder though: "Auto-party", the looking for party icon with a different color, automatically made a party with people in the same area. No one used it and I never ever once got it to work even after a dozen attempts. Apparently grabbed a mage and grouped them with a bunch of melee. I wonder if it would have grouped up a BLM with a bunch of MNKs and THFs lol.
haha to be honest I totally forgot about this. someone brought it up recently and I thought they were making it up. I guess it is essentially a party finder though "I'll take anything, just invite me"
I get that. But I think that speaks more to the success of XI. Square was able to take the knowledge gained from XI and optimized classes and party structure far better for XIV and it’s party finder. It kinda resulted in a lot of samesy jobs. But you were always able to get a party together for these high end tasks. But with people still having to perform optimally. I absolutely see the appeal of what made XI amazing. But I think a lot of the XI vet hate towards XIV doesn’t see what was in XI that carried over and evolved in XIV. As a gunbreaker in XIV I have a couple of abilities that are absolutely made optimal by me knowing what other party members would benefit from them the most. It’s a very different game from XI though. Which is why I love that both are still running. You can experience two very different and great in their own ways games. But I love that it’s given me the chance to see where the two are the same or an evolution.
OMG bro, casually dropping that possible Dev line of "The numbers are fine, you all just suck at playing the game"..... do y'all remember they said almost THAT EXACT THING when the player base was begging for a SMN buff/change??? They straight up said SMN was working as intended, and that players aren't playing the job the way it was meant to be played
hahah ya I never want to give the player base a total free pass, but I do feel like the dev team just refused to see legitimate issues sometimes. "its not us, its the players who are wrong"
Lol I took that same trip from Bastok to Jeuno on foot....just to impress some chick who didn't even reciprocate her feelings. But the trip was so much fun.
Mana burns and Astral burn parties were fun. Mnk burns in the tomb were awesome. I suppose most of them were so fun cause it was deviation from what was normal in FFXI.
I get that feeling of wanting to play but not wanting to communicate and actively set up parties for content. It's just something i'd prefer to not do because of that anxiety of talking to strangers and not knowing how it's going to go. Just can't be bothered to deal with rejection, or feeling like i might be holding everyone back. It's made getting into content that i really want to do terribly difficult. I also know how it is to want to have another screen up with something else on it. I have a 50 inch hd tv 4k ready, and a 35 inch smaller hd tv connected to my pc, and i always have either a guide or youtube up on the smaller tv while gaming on the bigger one. Sometimes i just have to have something on that smaller tv and sometimes it's to the detriment of the game i'm playing. I've started to just shut off the 2nd monitor if i'm playing a single player game.
Not only bad grouping between jobs could happen in ffxi, it changed based on what you were killing. Party finder destroyed all that. Secondly your reputation doesn’t matter as much with party finder vs in games like classic ffxi it did bc you’re searching for certain job combos and all the sudden it’s “don’t invite that guy, find another pld, he afk’d half the night last night”
In a game like FFXI or XIV where you can job change as you need, imbalance of jobs really isn't as big of a deal, even though the devs do surprisingly manage to balance XIV jobs most of the time. I actually do like the imbalance in XI a lot. There's not a single job in that game, specifically referring to DPS/DD, that I don't want to play or at least try. They're unique enough that you feel like you'll get some unique enjoyment playing it.
ya I mean I don't want to minimize or detract from those who actually have ADD, but I've definitely developed symptoms with how much I have to constantly feed my brain activity these days. and not necessarily engaging activity, just mindless whateve rlol
Played ffxi for 20 years with my wife and met some lifelong friends across the US. Now 20 years later and several children, we aren't going back to 11, but are planning to start a free company in 14 with us and the children lol. My only complaint with 14 vs 11 are the party and alliance numbers.
Shame they took this game off consoles I managed to 99 my Ninjas mythic empyrean and relic weapons before they shut consoles down in 2016. Best brutal game ever back in the day though whew
Classic WoW luckily has the environment to make lasting relationships. These new style theme park MMOs almost feel made for people who already have a group of friends to game with. There's not much to encourage people to group up and stick with each other.
back in the pre Abyssea days, and especially prior to Treasures of Aht Urhgan, if you were trying to level jobs that most regarded as "bad" (i.e DRGs, THF before lvl 30, SMNs, PUPs etc) most of the time you had to build your own party, simple as that...of course with that being said, not every composition wasnt a home run, hell i remember a lot of times you felt great if you could gather 5 other strangers within, what, 30 minutes to an hour, period. Thats not even counting the finding a camp, getting to said camp, and finally starting the exp run LOL. You know the ironic thing, though, is while at the time i would never admit it, that social aspect of FFXI was in a very cruel way, fun. Socializing with complete strangers, asking them how long they have to play, if they, by some miracle (lol) have any other jobs available to change to incase we find another DD, healer, etc (if they didnt already list it in their search comment, that is), if they know a friend around our level that wants to exp too. Yes, there was once a time where level sync didnt exist, and it was pure madness, but we OGs persevered heh. I think where FFXi is at today is great, its not as daunting to start 100% fresh outta the gate and feel overwhelmed mainly thanks to the Trust system, but that social part of FFXI that existed prior to Abyssea (yes ppl still talked to others to form exp alliances, but leveling pre 75 helped you learn how to play your job right, even if the exp grind was too steep) we will simply never see that again in this game, and thats a damn shame, b/c i made a lot friends ingame that i still talk to every now and then outside the game (im inactive atm but i do return to the game every year or 2 for shits and giggles). We didnt know it at the time, but forming exp parties was the fundamental core of what made FFXI so unique and special, it forced you to be social when maybe you didnt want to, and sometimes, especially if you partied with either ppl you thought did their job great or were lighthearted during the exp group and you felt "heck, maybe he/she seems like a cool person and i can do some BCNMs or something with them down the line, let me /befriend them".
I think Fiesta Online's 2006 release had a PQ finder that was about as good as FFXI's auto party system. Doing level 70 PQ's was basically death if you didn't have 2 tanks. It was still neat to basically queue up for what was effectively a dungeon was still pretty fun.
Making good parties was literally a skill, being able to sift through people online and find needed jobs and organize a good party was something not everyone was capable of. This is one area were private servers like Eden have a leg up cause you can search players and check gear to asses competency before you invite them.
And everyone’s had a party where - either by accident or lack of options - the WHM and RDM are both 2 levels higher, and everyone else is lower. Usually was a bit of a disaster lol - before level sync
@@Huntin4GamesChannel HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
The thing about pf in XIV is that it (depending on the content) saves time and does not require you to babysit the screen to continue to shout. For someone like myself I have a limited amount of time to play and sitting on a game for hours on end in hopes of forming a decent party is not optimal for productivity. So with XIV I find I can set pf for what it is I want, set ilvl reqs, and various other things leave it go do other stuff and just wait for the fill sound cue. The unfortunate part about XI, if we are to discuss implementation of pf in the game, is the numerous variables you have to consider. In XIV rotations are pretty much set for optimization. It just comes down to how well you can perform that rotation and do mechanics, and then your Ilvl which at a certain point is maxed then it doesn’t really matter much. For XI, there are so many variables in the gear the player has access to in that moment. PF won’t work unless people are able to ensure people have certain gear that makes their job effective. Not everyone has access to all of the top end gear either due to a lack of time available or not really knowing people to get said gear. I can just see it causing more problems than it would solve. My point to all this is to say pf is a good way of saving time unless you have too many variables to consider to make it work properly.
It became a real problem once you got Hastega, because people didn't realize how expensive it was and let's be real, you were probably only in the party because they couldn't find a healer.
If SMN had gotten Refresh-ga back in the day, when if it was a lesser version (like how Garuda & Titan gave lesser -ga versions of Haste & Stone Skin), that could have solved a lot of issues I feel. Just make it unstackable with the other stuff. But that would've made SMN a more competent Solo job, a good Support option (we all know how many parties fell through because lack of Supports available)
yeah i think the big struggle was lack of refresh and dispel. both for our own mp and those of the rest of the party, we just burned out too quick with only standard auto refresh
It always made me mad when people played another game or watched TV/movie while playing ffxi. The truth though was that I was just jealous because as slow as a game as ffxi is, I still wasn't capable of doing that. I was also super chatty in ffxi, wow and FFXIV, I don't say a word.
This topic brought back memories of shouting in Jeuno for people to complete the Alexander fight. And it never failed that right as we got enough people for the actual fight.... One person would let on that they hadn't done any of the prerequisite quest/cutscenes yet. 🥲
@@Huntin4GamesChannel I have to laugh I’m gonna be 52 years old and I still love this game even though I took a break for like eight years I started playing in early 2004
This was the number reason I couldn't do the MMO content of XI, and end up quitting the game. Never could figure out how the hell people get together to do content or ask for help. I did manage to do all the MSQ for all expansions using trusts. With FFXIV, it's very easy to find a group for pretty much anything, super fast, super easy. Get in, get out. This way, my very limited time to play was not wasted.
People say that party finder changed everything I disagree I think what changed everything is what came with party finder Which is matchmaking cross server And how party finder handled roles The best part of FFXI is that it stayed away from the gross ass simplistic holy Trinity job system We had buffers/debuffers and support You can have a party finder system in a tight community and a complex job system...it ain't impossible y'all ..
yeah we definitely didn't touch on the cross server aspect enough with this discussion, but it was huuuuuuuge to the detriment of social interaction. great point
To add to this point, there are other game factors that change how players act in situations. Something no one mentions is how much faster the gameplay has become. The reason your FFXIV dungeon was silent unless something went wrong is it's very hard to type coherently while just playing due to how classes and content are designed. Older MMOs were generally autoattacking and using a skill maybe once every minute, so you had a lot of time to type while fighting. Content also took a lot longer, so nobody was really rushing it because you were gonna be there for hours anyway. Blaming the dungeon finder is just looking for a singular reason when it's probably mostly blameless and the fault lies more with how now games are designed with more apm and shorter pieces of content than they used to be. If you had a dungeon finder in FFXI but the combat stayed the same, and with the assumption that the thing would actually put together coherent parties, you'd still be talking and hanging out while doing the very long tasks that game asked of parties.
So I really wanna come back - but everytime I do, I end up just not knowing where to go/what to do. Either content is too easy/doesn't offer a good reward, or too hard/noone will invite me. What to do?!
Well shouldn't Blizzard making the same mistakes also be part of the Classic experience? xD Edit: I completely agree with everything you said about what the Party Finder did for MMO's, also I really relate to what you said about becoming more and more socially isolated in MMO's the more "convenient" the Dev's make the game. It was so long ago I made an actual friend in an MMO, because I don't have to speak to anyone really to play the game casually.
@Huntin4games watched your stream for the first time last night. Really wanted to join FtP talk but I'm a lurker. I think SE could go FtP and to make profit selling beast men seals or kindred seals for real money. Would like to hear your thoughts on that?
Or even sell crafting materials for real money? I meant to say ffxi should go free to play in last comment I dont think it would have to make a big change to be profitable
ToaU definitely felt like both that they wanted to segregate BLM from melee classes and they gave up on skillchain. It added both Colibri and Flans, after all. People were attempting manaburn (aka bomber) parties as far back as Zilart. Anyone struggling to level DRG probably felt at least some enmity to BLM players seeing one of those in action, despite how janky it was back then. I think people embraced that separation eagerly, then got nostalgic skillchain and magicburst later.
ToAU definately lowered the bar for players while making many things accessable only to cliques (esp. Assault/Nyzul Isle I.D. Tags, JP midnight waits), and DEAR GOD there is literally gatekeeping with the Imperial Gates in all the zones. It didn't feel like an adventure at all.
Bit of a rant ahead, but it's really sad that modern MMORPGs are barely a social experience these days (well, one that is actively encouraged by game design). Collaboration is placed massively on the back burner in favour of the plug and play that you mention, but still simultaneously will want to suck all your time whilst making it a shallow and hollow, 'lonely in a crowd' experience. Personally my enjoyment has suffered hugely for it in MMOs and have grown frustrated enough to the point of stopping playing XIV (eg my most invested modern MMO) recently. I thought that with a new expansion (which whilst enjoyable, still has less than half the features promised at launch) would bring people closer together and actually talking but no. People returned, finished the story content in 1-2 weeks, got bored and left whilst new players wouldn't even dare to say a hello. Almost everything is and can be figured out solo (even encouraged) whilst your entire job or profession grinds rely purely on a single player experience with no collaboration or involvement with others needed to advance the story or the experience bar a few awkwardly shoehorned in fights. You have this immensely popular game where the most intense conversation you will see through 95% of your experience as an awkward "hi" to remind you it's not a world of NPCs. It's not massively multiplayer, it's just massively online. The only collaboration I see in which active communication and getting to know others is needed to progress is through hardcore raiding (which less than 5% of the population engages in whilst in being a high stress and potentially toxic environment) and then role play, for which the tools to do so are barely existent in game design or are locked behind real or in game pay walls. I'm glad you said what you did, because I've felt almost exactly the same in this respect and felt as if I was doing something wrong or was just out of touch in modern MMOs until you put what ive been feeling into words. This is why I love your content and will have to check out your streams if I'm ever up late enough. It's like listening to an old friend. I did meet some great *friends* on XI, one whom I still talk with 17 years later. I made one or two fleeting friends in classic / earlier WoW and whilst I met some lovely acquaintances in XIV, there were very few opportunities to play with them to see them more as a potential friend over another player's avatar.
XI just feels far more community centric over XIV. I meet and get help from people all the time when playing on Horizon XI but I legit have 0 friends on 14 no one returns tells, no one wants to add each other dungeons and really most of the games content are almost all automated…
I totally agree with you. It’s so sad to see modern mmos don’t encourage people to communicate with each other anymore. I’m an introvert too but I would talk and make friend if the game forced me to do so. And when it does, it’s the most fun I ever have in mmos. It’s hard to talk with others when there is no need for it. And Party Finder plays an important role in making the game less social. Just sad.
right? you see some other BSTs in the wild, you've got that connection of similar play style and interests. seeing another DRG or BLM in XIV I never think "oh I bet they're fun" lol
@@Huntin4GamesChannel yes this. Seeing another BST in Garlaige and being wow you are just as crazy as me fighting with undead just on the other side of this wall. Let's be friends lol
FF11 was my first perfect game experience in my opinion only until after lvl 75 cap. I think game shouldn't be made easy, because who would want to play an easy game? We want excitement that's why we play hard game with great story is a bonus.
Sup Hunter you got me to come back to ffxi. And honestly I'm not sold that it isn't the best mmorpg out right now. Catch me on eden bud. Ravenn or Ravager. Maybe we can party
Did square enix ever fix blm. I had a level 75 blm. I got sky unlocked and was going through cop missions. I gotten my account hacked. I was stupid. I refused to use the token. Me and my boy zanadul and grunk were real life friends. Started on valefore and transfered to remora.
Not only did putting a party together in FFXI make people more social, understand other jobs, synergize better....but also explore the world. When i leveled as a THF or DRG i rarely got parties. If it wasn't for other classes that had it hard too or helpful strong classes that wanted exp but camps were full I wouldnt have went to "off meta" exp areas. The world was vast and had plenty of opportunity for those willing to work together. I created everlasting bonds this way and endless fun with duo groups to 6man DRG parties. I am grateful that XI had no partyfinder/matchmake...otherwise i wouldnt have been that explorer with my friends on our majestic chicken steeds exploring every inch of what Vana'iel had to offer. Ever since FF14 tweaked its numbers to offer more in dungeons with it's roulette system....the game became a chore you have to pay for, lack of social depth, game became more toxic, more importantly....you dont even have to leave the comfort of your own home to do anything. So sad that the days of Fate exp groups are gone. All people do are play dress up and emote eachother all day while in queue. Hope the glory days will return! I long for the release of Pantheon and Ashes of Creation.
Talking about learning and understanding the game, I think that was my biggest turn-off from XIV. I remember asking my friends what kind of cool strategies and things I could look forward to and being met with shrugs and confused glares. You don't even really play XIV: the game makes your party and teleports you to the dungeon, and then there's no weaknesses or resistances or strategy because that would add uniqueness to jobs. You don't even need to interact with your team, because you'll never party with those same players again anyway. It just feels so hollow. Each job in XI brings something so wholly different to a party. There's things to learn and ways to grow as a player. You can get away without even having a dedicated tank or healer if the rest of your team composition is sufficient. Utsusemi makes Ninja almost invincible, but it doesn't have great enmity control, so throw a Thief into the mix for Trick Attack, and you suddenly don't even need a tank or healer. Or you could throw two beefy damage-dealers in that trade hate so neither takes too much damage.
@@craigjohnston5781 everyone got lazy and would lvl sync the party and later people had no combat skill or real skills with the job. But the perk to it was summoner burn party.
@@joshuaa.kennedy8837 okay, yeah the later stage level sync of unlimited levels I wasn't a fan of. I wasn't overly a fan of it at all but recognized its necessity as population waned.
MMOs are about the content not playing with others. It a byproduct, but not the main point. The point is to clear the content, if you clear the content with other people then great, if not that's great too. Not all of us play mmos to be your friend. We are here for the cool worlds, bosses, music, and lore of the game. We are not here to be forced to talk to you to get anything done. Just because you're too socially inept to go outside and make actual real life friends doesn't mean game devs should be designing their game in a way to force me to spend time with you. You what's going to happen if they force people to do that? People will just leave the game.
"Not all of us play mmos to be your friend." No truer words were spoken. He's right. No one should be "forced" into parties. People should want to group up not be forced into it. If you want people to talk to you be the person people would want to be friends with.
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I used to be pretty social in FFXI. I've never made a friend in all of my WoW, GW2 or FFXIV playtime.
yeah it’s so easy to get by in those games without talking to anyone.. also in Elder Scrolls Online, I’ve never really made friends in the game. Personally, it doesn’t really bother me but I can understand why some people would… ironically the only time in years I’ve spoken to someone in the online games and kept in touch with for a while was in Fallout 76 lol
yeah I really enjoy GW2, but its designed around people floating in and out of your play area seamlessly. while that's neat, its kind of sad from a social perspective
@@Huntin4GamesChannel I love your video's, FFXI is a beautiful work of art, I started playing in 2006 and have played it solid for 5 years then on and off for another 5 and now off for a few years, the problem is its very hard to 5 box and have a 50 HR a week job haha!
I loved the adventure, the music in the zones, using my chocobo to just travel and sight see.
Same🥲
Same dude. Wow classic and FFXI are the best in that regard
Man i remember back in the prime days of FFXI it was like even if you were in part seek- people would message you and be like hey we need job x and you're that job and level- want to party with us- and because of how xp worked and how hard it could be to find a party usually the answer was "YES!" and then you're whole night plans changed lol
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In FFXI, I felt unique and needed, not only in terms of my job but also making connections. After parties, people would add each other to friend list to keep track for next parties. In FFXIV, there is no such feeling at all. Everyone felt replacable, we didn’t know each other’s names, my friendlist has 0 people in it.
HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
I was a stone cold beast at forming parties in XI. It was time consuming as hell a lot of the time, but after you got the right party balance, then everyone got to the camp, and everyone's gear was legit, and people were decent at their jobs, the XP would definitely flow. XI in its prime will always be the pinnacle of gaming.
Agreed 👍
Just as importantly to that though, the conversation would often organically flow too which is what made such a grind thoroughly enjoyable (on top of the amazing music, of course).
The only time i spoke to people in 14 was when some one disconnected during a dungeon and we had to wait for a replacement. And being able to stop, chat and take take it all in was one of the most enjoyable moments I've had in the whole game. Everyone always plays like they are trying to break the speedrunning record.
That's honestly what got me into FFXi. FFXIV everyone always raced throug dungeons and I never felt like I could have the real MMO experience, explore dungeons and connect with people
@@calebfairchild8745 when ppl don't have time and want things fast, that's how it is. Ffxi I loved the pace and challenge. Tho there were times in 14 that same thing happened when someone left the party and we sat down talking. It was great just sitting there having a conversation.
I only played FF14 through the main scenario quest and Heavensward expansion, but I never made a single friend while playing it. The fact that I was playing on Playstation might have influenced that. I remember buying a BT keyboard to try to socialise a little bit more, but it didn’t help much. It’s completely the opposite of FF11. I’m still in touch with the people I met in Vana’Diel and it’s been like 9 years since I last logged in. Also, I had a lot of friends who played FF11 on consoles, but they didn’t avoid social contact. So I’m guessing the Party Finder system indeed plays an important role there. Just like you said: FF11 forces you to communicate. There is no other way.
I think this is why I stopped playing FF14 for WoW Classic. There I could actually group up with people and make friends doing things like just questing. I might help someone with a FATE or something in 14, but there's barely any player to player interaction.
yeah I appreciate XIV for what it is, and love that people can enjoy it in a social sense, but I've never been able to.
Same an 11 friend of mine told me to stick it out as shadow bringers was great but with no social interaction with anyone other than the odd dungeon I was learning really made 14 stale fast so barely finished Heavensward and tried multiple times.
I played on PlayStation and PC too.
where as 11 was almost always talking to someone somewhere.
Yep. Been playing XIV since 2013, the only friends I have in game are friends I know in real life who still play.
I just treat it like a single-player RPG.
The only social interaction in the game is just tenuous, surface-level etiquette and that's fine. Just gotta' expect it.
We actually did have a brief few months from the start of FFXIV ARR where there was no Party Finder system. We used to have to shout in the Moh Dhona for endgame party invites for Garuda, Ifrit, Titan fights and even early Binding Coil of Bahamut.
And it was terrible. I remember that shit. Glad the team figured out early that time had moved on from the bullshit he's longing for in this vid.
@@tical2399 lol
I think the anxiety comes because in old games you HAD to communicate and so you had real relationships at your fingertips which is less scary than disappointing complete strangers who just see you as an obstacle to efficiency.
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we need more videos homie
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Understanding how parties worked was a huge deal in the earlier days of FFXI. Even for casual players, how well you worked with others made a difference to your reputation. Because the grind to 75 was so slow, people often stayed within the same level ranges for a while. If you partied together well, people would remember you and would try to invite you again, even if you weren't a preferred exp party job (like THF with Viper Bite or Sidewinder RNG).
being able to make unique party compositions were also super fun. SMN bomb parties, BST duos, even DRG healing. it paid off to experiment and try to break the mold
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Please come back bb, hope you are well! Think you will be checking out horizonxi?
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Love this remembrance down memory lane.
Corsair was so much fun and learning from people was awesome.
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Still playing ffxi? Miss your videos lately man
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The social aspect of 75-era FFXI, which was necessary to progress, is exactly what made the game so memorable to people 20 years later. Like it or not, because we had to talk to each other, the game was so much more to us than the raw mechanics of gaining experience and farming for gear. Even when we weren't actively partying we would often log in just to chat with our friends while we were cleaning up our inventory after a long night of farming, or crafting, or mining. Modern MMOs, I will play for 6 months or a year or two and then just walk away, whatever. FFXI I played for 5 years straight and then came back ten years later for another year. No other game holds a place in my heart like FFXI, and I doubt one ever will.
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FFXI DID have a system like Party Finder though: "Auto-party", the looking for party icon with a different color, automatically made a party with people in the same area.
No one used it and I never ever once got it to work even after a dozen attempts.
Apparently grabbed a mage and grouped them with a bunch of melee. I wonder if it would have grouped up a BLM with a bunch of MNKs and THFs lol.
haha to be honest I totally forgot about this. someone brought it up recently and I thought they were making it up. I guess it is essentially a party finder though "I'll take anything, just invite me"
I get that. But I think that speaks more to the success of XI. Square was able to take the knowledge gained from XI and optimized classes and party structure far better for XIV and it’s party finder. It kinda resulted in a lot of samesy jobs. But you were always able to get a party together for these high end tasks. But with people still having to perform optimally. I absolutely see the appeal of what made XI amazing. But I think a lot of the XI vet hate towards XIV doesn’t see what was in XI that carried over and evolved in XIV. As a gunbreaker in XIV I have a couple of abilities that are absolutely made optimal by me knowing what other party members would benefit from them the most. It’s a very different game from XI though. Which is why I love that both are still running. You can experience two very different and great in their own ways games. But I love that it’s given me the chance to see where the two are the same or an evolution.
OMG bro, casually dropping that possible Dev line of "The numbers are fine, you all just suck at playing the game"..... do y'all remember they said almost THAT EXACT THING when the player base was begging for a SMN buff/change??? They straight up said SMN was working as intended, and that players aren't playing the job the way it was meant to be played
hahah ya I never want to give the player base a total free pass, but I do feel like the dev team just refused to see legitimate issues sometimes. "its not us, its the players who are wrong"
i still remember my first trip from windurst to valkurm dunes, and my first trip to jeuno from there, such an epic game...
Lol I took that same trip from Bastok to Jeuno on foot....just to impress some chick who didn't even reciprocate her feelings. But the trip was so much fun.
Mana burns and Astral burn parties were fun. Mnk burns in the tomb were awesome. I suppose most of them were so fun cause it was deviation from what was normal in FFXI.
Mana Burns I never joined a really good one compared to Astral Burn party.
I get that feeling of wanting to play but not wanting to communicate and actively set up parties for content. It's just something i'd prefer to not do because of that anxiety of talking to strangers and not knowing how it's going to go. Just can't be bothered to deal with rejection, or feeling like i might be holding everyone back. It's made getting into content that i really want to do terribly difficult.
I also know how it is to want to have another screen up with something else on it. I have a 50 inch hd tv 4k ready, and a 35 inch smaller hd tv connected to my pc, and i always have either a guide or youtube up on the smaller tv while gaming on the bigger one. Sometimes i just have to have something on that smaller tv and sometimes it's to the detriment of the game i'm playing. I've started to just shut off the 2nd monitor if i'm playing a single player game.
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Not only bad grouping between jobs could happen in ffxi, it changed based on what you were killing. Party finder destroyed all that. Secondly your reputation doesn’t matter as much with party finder vs in games like classic ffxi it did bc you’re searching for certain job combos and all the sudden it’s “don’t invite that guy, find another pld, he afk’d half the night last night”
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In a game like FFXI or XIV where you can job change as you need, imbalance of jobs really isn't as big of a deal, even though the devs do surprisingly manage to balance XIV jobs most of the time. I actually do like the imbalance in XI a lot. There's not a single job in that game, specifically referring to DPS/DD, that I don't want to play or at least try. They're unique enough that you feel like you'll get some unique enjoyment playing it.
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Bro I feel you so much on the ADD symptoms from multitasking while gaming. I often wonder if I actually have it lol.
ya I mean I don't want to minimize or detract from those who actually have ADD, but I've definitely developed symptoms with how much I have to constantly feed my brain activity these days. and not necessarily engaging activity, just mindless whateve rlol
Played ffxi for 20 years with my wife and met some lifelong friends across the US. Now 20 years later and several children, we aren't going back to 11, but are planning to start a free company in 14 with us and the children lol. My only complaint with 14 vs 11 are the party and alliance numbers.
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Shame they took this game off consoles I managed to 99 my Ninjas mythic empyrean and relic weapons before they shut consoles down in 2016. Best brutal game ever back in the day though whew
I made more friends in eq, ffxi and old school wow then I have in every mmo since wow wotlk.
Classic WoW luckily has the environment to make lasting relationships. These new style theme park MMOs almost feel made for people who already have a group of friends to game with. There's not much to encourage people to group up and stick with each other.
well said, totally agree
You ever going to make videos on this channel again?
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back in the pre Abyssea days, and especially prior to Treasures of Aht Urhgan, if you were trying to level jobs that most regarded as "bad" (i.e DRGs, THF before lvl 30, SMNs, PUPs etc) most of the time you had to build your own party, simple as that...of course with that being said, not every composition wasnt a home run, hell i remember a lot of times you felt great if you could gather 5 other strangers within, what, 30 minutes to an hour, period. Thats not even counting the finding a camp, getting to said camp, and finally starting the exp run LOL.
You know the ironic thing, though, is while at the time i would never admit it, that social aspect of FFXI was in a very cruel way, fun. Socializing with complete strangers, asking them how long they have to play, if they, by some miracle (lol) have any other jobs available to change to incase we find another DD, healer, etc (if they didnt already list it in their search comment, that is), if they know a friend around our level that wants to exp too. Yes, there was once a time where level sync didnt exist, and it was pure madness, but we OGs persevered heh.
I think where FFXi is at today is great, its not as daunting to start 100% fresh outta the gate and feel overwhelmed mainly thanks to the Trust system, but that social part of FFXI that existed prior to Abyssea (yes ppl still talked to others to form exp alliances, but leveling pre 75 helped you learn how to play your job right, even if the exp grind was too steep) we will simply never see that again in this game, and thats a damn shame, b/c i made a lot friends ingame that i still talk to every now and then outside the game (im inactive atm but i do return to the game every year or 2 for shits and giggles).
We didnt know it at the time, but forming exp parties was the fundamental core of what made FFXI so unique and special, it forced you to be social when maybe you didnt want to, and sometimes, especially if you partied with either ppl you thought did their job great or were lighthearted during the exp group and you felt "heck, maybe he/she seems like a cool person and i can do some BCNMs or something with them down the line, let me /befriend them".
I think Fiesta Online's 2006 release had a PQ finder that was about as good as FFXI's auto party system. Doing level 70 PQ's was basically death if you didn't have 2 tanks. It was still neat to basically queue up for what was effectively a dungeon was still pretty fun.
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Making good parties was literally a skill, being able to sift through people online and find needed jobs and organize a good party was something not everyone was capable of. This is one area were private servers like Eden have a leg up cause you can search players and check gear to asses competency before you invite them.
Does ffxi have party finder now?
And everyone’s had a party where - either by accident or lack of options - the WHM and RDM are both 2 levels higher, and everyone else is lower. Usually was a bit of a disaster lol - before level sync
glad to be part of this discussion :)
it was fantastic! glad to see so many still appreciate the older style
HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
@@Huntin4GamesChannel HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
The thing about pf in XIV is that it (depending on the content) saves time and does not require you to babysit the screen to continue to shout. For someone like myself I have a limited amount of time to play and sitting on a game for hours on end in hopes of forming a decent party is not optimal for productivity. So with XIV I find I can set pf for what it is I want, set ilvl reqs, and various other things leave it go do other stuff and just wait for the fill sound cue. The unfortunate part about XI, if we are to discuss implementation of pf in the game, is the numerous variables you have to consider. In XIV rotations are pretty much set for optimization. It just comes down to how well you can perform that rotation and do mechanics, and then your Ilvl which at a certain point is maxed then it doesn’t really matter much. For XI, there are so many variables in the gear the player has access to in that moment. PF won’t work unless people are able to ensure people have certain gear that makes their job effective. Not everyone has access to all of the top end gear either due to a lack of time available or not really knowing people to get said gear. I can just see it causing more problems than it would solve. My point to all this is to say pf is a good way of saving time unless you have too many variables to consider to make it work properly.
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SMN was a good red mage replacement. It was hard when ppl pushed then to full damage or full healer
It became a real problem once you got Hastega, because people didn't realize how expensive it was and let's be real, you were probably only in the party because they couldn't find a healer.
If SMN had gotten Refresh-ga back in the day, when if it was a lesser version (like how Garuda & Titan gave lesser -ga versions of Haste & Stone Skin), that could have solved a lot of issues I feel. Just make it unstackable with the other stuff. But that would've made SMN a more competent Solo job, a good Support option (we all know how many parties fell through because lack of Supports available)
would have loved to see a 1mp tick refreshga like ballad 1. even that would have been a huge boost
yeah i think the big struggle was lack of refresh and dispel. both for our own mp and those of the rest of the party, we just burned out too quick with only standard auto refresh
@@Huntin4GamesChannel and not for nothing. People today forget about perpetuation cost. That was a real thing to balance at 75.
It always made me mad when people played another game or watched TV/movie while playing ffxi. The truth though was that I was just jealous because as slow as a game as ffxi is, I still wasn't capable of doing that.
I was also super chatty in ffxi, wow and FFXIV, I don't say a word.
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Study leveling was super heavy ingrained in my mind so I understand this so much.
It also made it difficult to play when we figured out optimal exp rates. Brd parties, rng parties, etc made it difficult to exp for many
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This topic brought back memories of shouting in Jeuno for people to complete the Alexander fight. And it never failed that right as we got enough people for the actual fight.... One person would let on that they hadn't done any of the prerequisite quest/cutscenes yet. 🥲
Tale as old as time
I haven’t played in a few months. Busy with work. Is my bonanza pearl still good?
Not sure what the timeline was! I’ve been a little awol myself
@@Huntin4GamesChannel ok dude ty
@@Huntin4GamesChannel I have to laugh I’m gonna be 52 years old and I still love this game even though I took a break for like eight years I started playing in early 2004
Very good video - lots to think about here. Thank you!
HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
This was the number reason I couldn't do the MMO content of XI, and end up quitting the game. Never could figure out how the hell people get together to do content or ask for help. I did manage to do all the MSQ for all expansions using trusts. With FFXIV, it's very easy to find a group for pretty much anything, super fast, super easy. Get in, get out. This way, my very limited time to play was not wasted.
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People say that party finder changed everything
I disagree I think what changed everything is what came with party finder
Which is matchmaking cross server
And how party finder handled roles
The best part of FFXI is that it stayed away from the gross ass simplistic holy Trinity job system
We had buffers/debuffers and support
You can have a party finder system in a tight community and a complex job system...it ain't impossible y'all ..
yeah we definitely didn't touch on the cross server aspect enough with this discussion, but it was huuuuuuuge to the detriment of social interaction. great point
To add to this point, there are other game factors that change how players act in situations. Something no one mentions is how much faster the gameplay has become. The reason your FFXIV dungeon was silent unless something went wrong is it's very hard to type coherently while just playing due to how classes and content are designed. Older MMOs were generally autoattacking and using a skill maybe once every minute, so you had a lot of time to type while fighting. Content also took a lot longer, so nobody was really rushing it because you were gonna be there for hours anyway.
Blaming the dungeon finder is just looking for a singular reason when it's probably mostly blameless and the fault lies more with how now games are designed with more apm and shorter pieces of content than they used to be. If you had a dungeon finder in FFXI but the combat stayed the same, and with the assumption that the thing would actually put together coherent parties, you'd still be talking and hanging out while doing the very long tasks that game asked of parties.
Lol I solved that multi-task itch by getting more XI accounts and playing several characters without automation tools.
haha that'll do it alright, you'll never have a moment to think
So I really wanna come back - but everytime I do, I end up just not knowing where to go/what to do. Either content is too easy/doesn't offer a good reward, or too hard/noone will invite me. What to do?!
HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
Well shouldn't Blizzard making the same mistakes also be part of the Classic experience? xD
Edit:
I completely agree with everything you said about what the Party Finder did for MMO's, also I really relate to what you said about becoming more and more socially isolated in MMO's the more "convenient" the Dev's make the game. It was so long ago I made an actual friend in an MMO, because I don't have to speak to anyone really to play the game casually.
hahah make the same mistakes you made in the past! i'll be curious to see what they do. some players want it i guess for the true experience
@Huntin4games watched your stream for the first time last night. Really wanted to join FtP talk but I'm a lurker. I think SE could go FtP and to make profit selling beast men seals or kindred seals for real money. Would like to hear your thoughts on that?
Or even sell crafting materials for real money? I meant to say ffxi should go free to play in last comment I dont think it would have to make a big change to be profitable
Applying to an endgame linkshell back in 75 era was like putting in a college application or a resume. Then proving you aren't complete dog water lol
ToaU definitely felt like both that they wanted to segregate BLM from melee classes and they gave up on skillchain. It added both Colibri and Flans, after all. People were attempting manaburn (aka bomber) parties as far back as Zilart. Anyone struggling to level DRG probably felt at least some enmity to BLM players seeing one of those in action, despite how janky it was back then. I think people embraced that separation eagerly, then got nostalgic skillchain and magicburst later.
ToAU definately lowered the bar for players while making many things accessable only to cliques (esp. Assault/Nyzul Isle I.D. Tags, JP midnight waits), and DEAR GOD there is literally gatekeeping with the Imperial Gates in all the zones. It didn't feel like an adventure at all.
Man sometimes you had everything click just right and mobs just melted.
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Bit of a rant ahead, but it's really sad that modern MMORPGs are barely a social experience these days (well, one that is actively encouraged by game design).
Collaboration is placed massively on the back burner in favour of the plug and play that you mention, but still simultaneously will want to suck all your time whilst making it a shallow and hollow, 'lonely in a crowd' experience.
Personally my enjoyment has suffered hugely for it in MMOs and have grown frustrated enough to the point of stopping playing XIV (eg my most invested modern MMO) recently. I thought that with a new expansion (which whilst enjoyable, still has less than half the features promised at launch) would bring people closer together and actually talking but no. People returned, finished the story content in 1-2 weeks, got bored and left whilst new players wouldn't even dare to say a hello.
Almost everything is and can be figured out solo (even encouraged) whilst your entire job or profession grinds rely purely on a single player experience with no collaboration or involvement with others needed to advance the story or the experience bar a few awkwardly shoehorned in fights.
You have this immensely popular game where the most intense conversation you will see through 95% of your experience as an awkward "hi" to remind you it's not a world of NPCs. It's not massively multiplayer, it's just massively online.
The only collaboration I see in which active communication and getting to know others is needed to progress is through hardcore raiding (which less than 5% of the population engages in whilst in being a high stress and potentially toxic environment) and then role play, for which the tools to do so are barely existent in game design or are locked behind real or in game pay walls.
I'm glad you said what you did, because I've felt almost exactly the same in this respect and felt as if I was doing something wrong or was just out of touch in modern MMOs until you put what ive been feeling into words. This is why I love your content and will have to check out your streams if I'm ever up late enough. It's like listening to an old friend.
I did meet some great *friends* on XI, one whom I still talk with 17 years later. I made one or two fleeting friends in classic / earlier WoW and whilst I met some lovely acquaintances in XIV, there were very few opportunities to play with them to see them more as a potential friend over another player's avatar.
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Party finder made me feel like I'm playing a single player game not a mmorpg
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XI just feels far more community centric over XIV. I meet and get help from people all the time when playing on Horizon XI but I legit have 0 friends on 14 no one returns tells, no one wants to add each other dungeons and really most of the games content are almost all automated…
I totally agree with you. It’s so sad to see modern mmos don’t encourage people to communicate with each other anymore. I’m an introvert too but I would talk and make friend if the game forced me to do so. And when it does, it’s the most fun I ever have in mmos. It’s hard to talk with others when there is no need for it. And Party Finder plays an important role in making the game less social. Just sad.
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You are correct about 11 making you get out of your shell
However for me I still couldn't so I took up BST
Then made friends with other BSTs lol
right? you see some other BSTs in the wild, you've got that connection of similar play style and interests. seeing another DRG or BLM in XIV I never think "oh I bet they're fun" lol
@@Huntin4GamesChannel yes this. Seeing another BST in Garlaige and being wow you are just as crazy as me fighting with undead just on the other side of this wall. Let's be friends lol
@@fenrishound5939 That put me on the floor laughing!
Are there still NMs in modern FFXI?
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FF11 was my first perfect game experience in my opinion only until after lvl 75 cap. I think game shouldn't be made easy, because who would want to play an easy game? We want excitement that's why we play hard game with great story is a bonus.
The direction the industry has headed in has been a mistake. Square Enix Handled the changes of Final fantasy GREATLY
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Sup Hunter you got me to come back to ffxi. And honestly I'm not sold that it isn't the best mmorpg out right now. Catch me on eden bud. Ravenn or Ravager. Maybe we can party
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I was always a whm so I had parties asking for me to join when I was already in one 😂😂 but man I met some cool people while getting into groups
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Did square enix ever fix blm. I had a level 75 blm. I got sky unlocked and was going through cop missions. I gotten my account hacked. I was stupid. I refused to use the token. Me and my boy zanadul and grunk were real life friends. Started on valefore and transfered to remora.
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Still needs party finder.
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ffxi made me so social. TY FFXi
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Not only did putting a party together in FFXI make people more social, understand other jobs, synergize better....but also explore the world. When i leveled as a THF or DRG i rarely got parties. If it wasn't for other classes that had it hard too or helpful strong classes that wanted exp but camps were full I wouldnt have went to "off meta" exp areas. The world was vast and had plenty of opportunity for those willing to work together. I created everlasting bonds this way and endless fun with duo groups to 6man DRG parties. I am grateful that XI had no partyfinder/matchmake...otherwise i wouldnt have been that explorer with my friends on our majestic chicken steeds exploring every inch of what Vana'iel had to offer.
Ever since FF14 tweaked its numbers to offer more in dungeons with it's roulette system....the game became a chore you have to pay for, lack of social depth, game became more toxic, more importantly....you dont even have to leave the comfort of your own home to do anything. So sad that the days of Fate exp groups are gone. All people do are play dress up and emote eachother all day while in queue.
Hope the glory days will return! I long for the release of Pantheon and Ashes of Creation.
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What's w the weird creepy basement dwellers music
i miss ffxi. think l try to recover my account.
can you recover an account if you lost your token?
Might have to call SQEX for that one.
HORIZON XI OFFICIAL TRAILER (A UNIQUE UPCOMING 75 ERA PROGRESSION SERVER) (DECEMBER 17TH) ruclips.net/video/AsqzD78dxl8/видео.html
Talking about learning and understanding the game, I think that was my biggest turn-off from XIV. I remember asking my friends what kind of cool strategies and things I could look forward to and being met with shrugs and confused glares. You don't even really play XIV: the game makes your party and teleports you to the dungeon, and then there's no weaknesses or resistances or strategy because that would add uniqueness to jobs. You don't even need to interact with your team, because you'll never party with those same players again anyway.
It just feels so hollow.
Each job in XI brings something so wholly different to a party. There's things to learn and ways to grow as a player. You can get away without even having a dedicated tank or healer if the rest of your team composition is sufficient. Utsusemi makes Ninja almost invincible, but it doesn't have great enmity control, so throw a Thief into the mix for Trick Attack, and you suddenly don't even need a tank or healer. Or you could throw two beefy damage-dealers in that trade hate so neither takes too much damage.
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you look like the "nanomachines, son." guy.
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Couldn’t agree more.
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Level sync for me is what killed this.
Sorry, I'm just curious, what did level sync kill?
@@craigjohnston5781 everyone got lazy and would lvl sync the party and later people had no combat skill or real skills with the job. But the perk to it was summoner burn party.
@@joshuaa.kennedy8837 okay, yeah the later stage level sync of unlimited levels I wasn't a fan of. I wasn't overly a fan of it at all but recognized its necessity as population waned.
@@craigjohnston5781 as the population went down we should have been able to solo more in my opinion.
@@joshuaa.kennedy8837 that's fair both solutions work and I think that is what they went for with books.
MMOs are about the content not playing with others. It a byproduct, but not the main point. The point is to clear the content, if you clear the content with other people then great, if not that's great too. Not all of us play mmos to be your friend. We are here for the cool worlds, bosses, music, and lore of the game. We are not here to be forced to talk to you to get anything done.
Just because you're too socially inept to go outside and make actual real life friends doesn't mean game devs should be designing their game in a way to force me to spend time with you. You what's going to happen if they force people to do that? People will just leave the game.
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"Not all of us play mmos to be your friend." No truer words were spoken.
He's right. No one should be "forced" into parties. People should want to group up not be forced into it. If you want people to talk to you be the person people would want to be friends with.
Kuftal tunnel, lv 56, inc robber crab, killed, immediately 2 others aggroed, killed, we survived thanks to our galka rdm, our only healer, good times.