Get Nebula using our link for 50% off an annual subscription: spectacles.link/nebula Do you think Norway's prisons make sense? For citations, turn on English CC. All sources listed in description. - some notes & corrections below - † Norwegian recidivism rates are disputed, but our 25% claim is supported by many academics. See the description to learn more about this. ✱ American prison statistics are notoriously unreliable. See the description for a full disclaimer and explanation about our approach. - We normally like to provide URL links to as many sources as we can. But this video has so many, it actually went over RUclips's description character limit. Follow the link to the script up above in the description, if you want links to any of our sources. We've put all we could provide there. - I mispronounced "fengsel" as "fengel" throughout the video. Sorry, Norwegians. - "Fengselsstrappen" and "strappen" should be "Fengselstrappen" and "trappen."
The social safety nets of Norway have a lot to do with reducing recidivism. In America a prisoner is released onto the streets with nothing other than parole officer whose job is find excuses to put them back in jail. In Norway they get an apartment, food, and money. They don't have to commit crimes just stay alive. Social workers than manage their lives to help keep them out of prison.
Correlation is not causation. Homicide rate can come from the amount of weapons in the population (as well as suicide rate in fact). Illegal immigration cannot be compared since there's a big difference in borders.
As an American if that's what our prisons looked like I would be retired already. So trust me you would have more prisoners if you did this in the USA. Won't work.
They could've also given the design to a 3-D printing studio and bought it from them, lol, but yeah. (or maybe their local library lets you 3-D print for free*) *You often still have to pay for the materials
Back to the main topic: in America there are favelas and cartels. So a better question is if the war on crime conducted in the middle of America is the only way to get to an environment when Norwegian approach is feasible. Otherwise cartels and gangs will just continue to rule their turf despite better prison experience.
@kjetilelvensenHaving a guaranteed roof over your head, guaranteed food and medical, all without needing to work 40hours a week for dead end jobs that hate you? At the "cost" of autonomy, being able to live life on autopilot does sound appealing to many
Norwegian here, I liked the video just a few small additions: The prisons giving the most freedom and are often shown in media abroad are for people who are on good behavior and often at the last few years of their sentence, they can be sent to more normal (but still humane) prisons if they break that trust. Average sentences can leave the wrong impression (don't think it was intentional), murderers, child rapists etc. will be spending many years behind bars, and if you are considered likely to re-offend violently, you can easily get a sentence that can be extended indefinitely. Not directly related to prisons, but our drug laws are still pretty bad with criminalization (it got a bit better) and one of the worst overdose death rates in Europe, so we still have a lot of room to improve. Same with drugs and suicide, I see the solutions more in beefing up care than in going back on normalization. And since Spectacles wanted our most famous terrorist to suffer: almost comically he does, he complains all the time and claim his human rights are violated in all sort of nonsense ways. It's easy to forget that most people don't want to be imprisoned in a shitty motel for years, especially terrorists can get furious. Many of them see themselves as heroes for their deranged causes, and then they get stuck with no internet, and while they can get visitors and can send letters, they can't spread their ideology or get visitors sharing the same. So with normal media ignoring them, and no internet connection, they are simply forgotten isolated from their movement and the status they crave.
@RichardBaran Over and over and over again. From what it sounds like, he latest suit shows that he is finally realizing the FAFO is real and has started trying to hide his nazi ideology and pretend he is remorseful for his actions, whereas in earlier trials he was openly seig heiling in court. He is miserable and thinks that will earn him sympathy, whereas most people just enjoy the schadenfreude even if his suffering is more "not having good enough video games to play" and not the whole "was murdered by a far right terrorist" like his victims.
Yep. Unfortunately once you are in the system it is designed to keep you there. Make it hard to find a job, a place to live, can't vote, restitution payment to the state and even the feds and then they wanna say that it's to protect society. Some people should never see the light of day again but prisons in the US used to be called reformatories or correctional facilities since their intention was to try to get people to reintegrate and be productive members of society. Now it's all about punishment that completely outweighs the crime cause it's easier to simply blame the individual and dish out harsher sentences than address the numerous issues in our society. Oh yeah, and it gives corporations practically free labor. Chain gangs used to be equated with working fields and quarries. Today it's been replaced with everyday goods sold in stores.
@VideoCesar07 Nail on the bloody head mate. Also worthy mention is the private prisons that are run for-profit (government prisons are also run for profit but giving that control to a private entity is so much worse), and for some reason nobody seems to care about any of it. If you have an institution that's goal is supposed to be rehabilitation of criminals, why on earth would you want to incentivise that institution against rehabilitating and releasing those criminals. The whole scam sets them up for repeated failure, institutionalising them to the point where prison's there only option. Then you factor in the slave labour with the fact that people of colour are arrested far more often, and for far longer sentences for the exact same crimes, hell, most of the time lesser crimes than their white constituents, and you've got the good old United Klans of America still practicing slavery in 2026, completely legal and "moral" in the eyes of every day people who are either too ignorant, stupid, uncaring, or all three to do anything about it. What a lovely country.
I think i seen somewhere that prisons are big business in US. So it's obviously that low expense and constant "customers" is the main goal for the benefactor of such situation as profits are more important than anything for many soulless would be capitalists.
The philosophy make sense when you remember that to feel protected in a normal prison in the US you need to join a gang for protection which would promote troublemaker to harden criminal
Why in oblivion does the USA not keep violent and non violent prizoners seperate? Does it really lack recources? The so called richest country in the world.
That, and also, when you treat people like animals, they get the message that this is what they are. Self-respect is actually a major part of rehabilitation. The idea that you have an inherent dignity is a powerful force for redemption. By contrast, when you treat people like THIS, you're actually sending the message that human life itself is worthless, which doesn't encourage repentance but an even more ferocious nihilistic predatory impulse. American prisons are practically temples of nihilism. There's a spectrum, from most to least humane, and I feel the American prison system literally picked the LEAST effective point on that spectrum, seemingly on purpose. It's inhumane enough to be dehumanizing and to undo any notion that human life is worthwhile or worthy of respect, but not actually inhumane enough to be scary. It's like EITHER shift would be an improvement.
@alexanderfretheim5720 Yes, its like the USA cant decide if it wants gulags or reformation centers. Which Id chose depends on how much power I have and how emotional I am. My personality is totalitarian, but logic dictates I should follow the best international practices (would make seperate prizons for europians and africans as I dout the europian way would work with africans but we would see), and being 1 man I would make that choice instead of doing bough.
I very much agree with your point, except that we shouldn't be treating animals like that either, it's part of the same fucked up abusive mentality, combined with extreme chauvinism, speciesism, anthropocentric narcissism, and supremacism. Non-human animals suffer just as much as we do, the fact that we CAN torture them doesn't entitle us to.
@Volatile-Tortoise if we agree that raising animals just to slaughter them is acceptable, we can probably also agree that conditions of said animals could be much better. You can have the animal live almost a "normal" life and magically disappear one day without suffering. And we can claim that striving for that, is a good thing. But wouldnt that be playing god, for said animals? You think we should not feel superior, but what part of controlling the entire existence of the farm species, doesnt scream supremacy? If we stop eating animals, we have to either execute and have them go extinct, or release them into an environent that cant house them, nor can it regulate them with predators. We cannot be on the same level.
The American prison system is designed to extract maximum value from the inmates and from the government to enrich the shareholders. The high recidivism rate is an by design.
"Why is America's sentencing and reincarceration rate so high?" "American prisoners are forced to work for corporations for less than 1 dollar an hour."
the misunderstanding is interpreting the US prison population endlessly increasing as a bug, when it is a feature that is fully intended, as a way to supply the private prison-industrial complex with an inexhaustible source of slave labour.
@Alexandra-s8g8jMostly people of the latter category. I doubt private prisons would do much to encourage the possibility of people being paroled if they have capacity quotas.
@aycc-nbh7289 Well, there you have the answer. People who want hard punishments have no real interest in keeping crime rates low, they want a steady flow of slave-work and easy targets they can inflict their cruelty on. Which means private prisons. And people who want to prevent crime and re-socialization get rid of private prisons. So the logic of the original statement doesn't fall flat.
@Alexandra-s8g8jI mostly agree with you, but I’m saying that private prisons are seeing their doors shuttered and places are slowly looking at the fact that they may not be the best idea. If what the original comment says still happens in places that close their private prisons, then private prisons are not the issue.
I think it's worth it to mention that "betjent" doesn't mean "officer" but instead means "server" or "butler". Paints a more radical and more accurate picture.
Is RUclips killing this channel? I love the coverage and the production quality, I can't fathom how you're getting less than a thousand views in the first hour.
@CAG83I had this happen a lot or I will "get" the notification but it won't actually come through instead it will just sit in the RUclips apps notification list for some stupid fucking reason.
I couldn't watch the video immediately, I did try, but I kept getting bombarded with 60 seconds of unskipable ads. Eventually I was given only 30 seconds of ads, so I started watching the video, until a 55 second long block of unskipable ads interrupted the video. I don't mind watching a couple of 10 or 15 second long ads to help support a creator, but recently RUclips has been taking the right piss with the amount of adverts, the length of adverts, and how frequently they interrupt videos.
It's time you check your privileges. I was raised in a state run foster home and my room was close to your standard prison cell. Nobody told it was rough on kids and adolecents. I always thought prisoners had more rights than us and more perks, I was always right!
@GenshinYuppe The Norwegian government literally help pay for apartments, food and mandatory expenses for families who struggle and can’t pay for most if not all of the above. It’s not a lot of money, but it’s enough to help relieve the stress off of families who need it the most (this isn’t only for families, but also for individuals). This is obviously limited and the focus has to be to get a job and become financially stable and independent. If the person refuses to work towards that then they lose the financial support
@GenshinYuppe are you saying people who're so poor and neglected they have to steal things not to die or to feed their family **doesnt need it**?? what's wrong with you-
@10011110011 But then if you try to take "extra revenge" you make sure that the offender will try again after release. And also the other extreme HAS been tried in history with epic failure. Namely only death penalty, no matter the crime. The end result was that pickpockets turned into murderers and rebels (this was ancient greece). Criminals always outproduce, out-breed normal people so killing them off the moment they were caught was no solution. This is what we call Draconian laws
@nagyzoli the fact you called "just punishment" as revenge shows we have nothing to talk about. You dont care about other people's loss, only your own "moral superiority". As the saying goes: your "boos"means nothing for I saw what makes you cheer.
@j.e.3276 More likely they need more supports, especially psychological services. I remember falling down the rabbit hole when working in emergency services being curious why people reoffend in these countries and a lot is dealing with mental disorders that need even more supports
Your comment is doing a disservice to those trying to understand how "2 guards killed by inmates in 2 years" translates. You just gave a statistic and didn't try hard enough to "translate". Given the number of guards in each country as a percentage of the total 1 guard in Norway is the equivalent of about 150 in the US. So it would take 300 US guards killed by inmates in 2 years for the equivalent percentage. 3 to 5 in the US in a year is a vastly lower percentage than 1 in Norway. But 2 in 2 years is such a small sample size that I wouldn't even try to use it as a basis for comparison. Even without prison reforms Norway could easily go for a number of years with no prison guards killed when the number is that small.
@SwordQuake2 Do you buy anything packaged in plastic? Have you ever bought something from Temu or Wish? Do you buy clothes containing polyester? It's really easy to judge somebody creating something from plastic, yet you throw plastic packaging to the trash yourself. I'd bet these props will not end up in waste, at least not in the coming years.
@SwordQuake2 We don't know what he does with them after he's done that, so I can't really assume. What I will assume is that you wanted to be a party pooper. Never happy about anything.
@SwordQuake23d printing tech is advancing pretty rapidly, and very soon enough you will be able to take these prints, break them down and turn them into new filament to use for future prints(there's already successful DIY examples across youtube)
Their whole culture is about punishing people. Punishing blacks by sending them to prison at far greater rates. Punishing women for having sex by limiting birth control and then forcing them to have babies if they get pregnant. Too bad the people who deserve the harshest punishment run the country.
And we don't live in a homogeneous society, black people make up about 13% of our population and between 85-88 of our prison population, for this reason I don't want our prisons to be a nice place to live, they get older,but they don't grow
2:20 Strappen is actually supposed to be Trappen :P Fengselstrappen is a combination of Fengsel and Trappen, the S in the middle is just there to tie those words together
21:00 I think the big overarching problem is with how privatized our prison system is there is almost an incentive to do the exact opposite to increase business. I think the way the prison system is privatized in the United States needs to be fundamentally overhauled with a large emphasis on penalizing institutes with high re-offense rates and rewarding those with low rates rather then just simply paying them to hold prisoners.
FRFR, this is a bipartisan support issue and it doesn't happen because politicians are corrupt af. Prisons cost money to run, "small government" types don't want relativism because it's government over=reach and bad for the bottom line, "government as a service" types don't want high relativism because it means the government isn't doing work for the money. Nobody /likes/ that prisons are gang HQ but the people on top keep on pushing it through.
@thomaswatvedt5812 what? When did i say punishment was the solution? Im saying their should be an economic incentive for institutes to focus on rehabilitating prisoners rather then just locking them away. Theres a very very big difference between paying a institute less for not doing a job and punishment. What do you purpose, writing the for profit prison institutes a strongly worded letter???
@TheLizard25 And there you go again, thinking that an economic incentive is the solution to everything. A prison shouldn't be a money making activity in the first place. You can't make money on inmates without turning them into slaves.
@thomaswatvedt5812 Theres a difference between using inmate labor and the government paying private prisons to house prisoners. I agree with you though the prison system shouldnt be for profit but acting like that is a viable solution in the US right now is delusional. It would be nice to have a system where prisons are all government run but thats impossible in the US currently and until lobbying is dismantled it will not occur. My solution is a realistically viable option.
@sadmermaid From what i've heard the american prison system is just a conveinent way to legalise slavery without the name. As you force the prisoners to work for no pay and pocket the profits. This also means its in the prisons best intrests that you will end up back there after your sentence.
@notorioustori You mean the less than 8% of prisoners in private prisons. People keep thinking its way more and that it is. The prison industrial complex isn't keeping prisons shitty, they play such a small role.
@Nick-pb5lc why? don't get me wrong, I too think Breivik was a horrible person who i have no sympathy for. but why the death penalty? is it just because as form or revenge or grudge? is it because you think the world would be saver if we allowed the state to kill some people? here is the thing. you have to be very very sure before you set up a system designed for ending the lives of others against there will that it will actually do what you want it to do. personally i have moral objections against killing people, anyone. but even if I hadn't the death penalty just isn't good at anything. It makes the world more dangerous as criminals who fear they will get the death penalty are incentivised to kill anyone who witnessed their acts. It has been proven that it does not reduce the amount of crime. And even if it is meant as just punishment, someone who is dead can't really feel anything. is it punishment if you are not there to witness it? and finally, it brings a huge risk. because, like i agree breivik is obviously a horrid person. but you can't exactly make a law to just punish him. how will you ensure that the people who are punished by death are actually "horrible enough" to deserve it? how do you ensure that they have actually done the crime they are going to be put to death for? we aren't the first people to talk about this. the death penalty in the us for example often takes years to be executed (with some dying in their cells of old age) because of all the work that has to be done before you can put someone to death. and even still, it is not rare at all to have an innocent be put to death and only find out after he was innocent. so is it worth it? all this work, uncertainty, with no clear benefit just so we can finally get to end Breiviks life? In my opinion it is not. but not just mine opinion, many victims or their remaining family members of such horrid criminals have spoken out against the death penalty. a common myth is that the death penalty provides closure, it does not. it can create years of uncertainty where suspect is in death row. waiting for it to be done. and if it is done, and afterwards it is discovered the person was innocent after all, imagine how the family feels then? an falsely imprisoned individual, horrid as that experience is, can be helped out, compensated in part for the lost years of their life. the family can if they feel need to reach out and try to make amends. an innocent put to death is just one more victim of the criminal who was never caught. and a victim of the society that decided the death penalty was worth the life of innocents
Those who gladly profess _"I'm jus gonna do muh liddle ol time."__ and __"I'm gonna gets muh swole up and catch up on muh soaps."_ have no desire to change for the better. Period.
In American for-profit prisons, guards often receive no training at all before their first shift. They're expected to learn on the job from their more experienced co-workers, while dealing with convict-guard ratios as high as 60-1.
Less than 8% of prisoners are in private prisons how do you explain the other 92% of not for profit public prisons if it's greedy corporations that are the problem?
@chr@christophers707 inmates are allowed to earn a wage at all, it’s private companies they work for at cents on the dollar. Also Commissary/food is a monopoly in the state of Florida by Aramark. Not to mention things like actually owning underwear or clothing or any footwear that isn’t state crocs, all come from Aramark.
@robertaylor9218 most issues with prisons would happen with or without privatization. One of the worst prison riots happened in the 70s because of deplorable conditions and that was before privatization.
@christophers707most issues, but private prisons do seem to make everything worse. They also have weird relationships with state legislatures, and bills get passed to keep them full. Because of minimum occupancy clauses in their contracts.
@TheReallyClippy What did you do to get sentenced to prison. Are you a danger to the tax man, to society, did you make a mistake or did you get given the choice of a fine or a few days/weeks in prison? The punishment should be proportional to the crime. And thus based on how bad you've been, you should enjoy less or more perks of being free like a PlayStation or living free with an ankle monitor. or maybe I'm reading manu wrong and they're just saying that when asking "how do we treat our worst?" we should also ask "how did they become our worst?" which is also a valid point.
i was in american prison from the age of 17 till i was 23 it sucked. luckily i stayed out. i 100% did what i was sent to prison for so that wasnt to bad but 5 years ago i did 6 months in jail for something i absolutly did not do and i still havent recovered from that and dont think i ever will. they take everything from you. its a sickening feeling knowing everything you owned or accomplished can just be stolen from you with no refund. and no way to get it back
I hate the idiot fellow citizens of ours who will make every excuse to justify the state or it's enforcement officers abusing a member of the public. The idiots are constitutionally incapable of accepting the fact that once state officers are allowed these misbehaviors free of consequence, then they themselves only need to get pulled over by one of them while they're in a bad mood, for their lives and freedom to be downgraded permanently just due to that officer's pissy mood
Yep. It makes you incredibly angry at the system when you are wrongfully punished for something you haven't done, and for me it made it incredibly hard to trust others for a long time. In my case, one of my working dogs was put in danger because of a false allegation, and I faced prison time while simultaneously being sued for $750k for an attack that was done by another owner's dog entirely. No one even asked if I was involved; my guilt was assumed based on the eye witness testimony of the victim alone, who I had never met, and the attack occured when I was out of state WITH MY DOGS. It was so bizarre. I eventually got the charges dismissed when I threw a lawyer-backed hissy fit, but it took months and a ridiculous amount of money. I actually work alongside law enforcement (I train and handle tracking/detection and bitework K9s, hence the big scary dogs), so I have very mixed feelings about it. I have plenty of authority figures that I consider close friends and many of them defer to my professional opinions and instructions in the field, but I still instinctively feel like they'd shoot my dogs if they looked at them the wrong way since cops and large, intimidating dogs don't mix well. Also, most police K9s are unhinged, unreliable, and very poorly trained. Best case scenario, they just aren't accurate; worst case scenario, their inexperienced handlers can't control them without using force, and the dogs bite indiscriminately and aren't reliable off-leash. They keep hiring my team for a reason: We do what they do better, faster, and safer, and my dogs don't make mistakes.
My uncle spent 30 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. He was finally released after the innocence project helped him. But all that time left psychological scars.
It's absurd to me that people thought stripping away all joy in a person's life and then making it impossible to re-enter society would prevent criminals from doing crime
Hearing it costs $100,000 per year per person compared to $40,000 shocked me because that’s really a lot less than I expected. For reducing recidivism from 80% to 25%, halving the rate of violent crime, and reducing overall prison sentences, it could turn out to be less expensive than American prison overall
@thori1829 8 grand a month to keep a mass murderer out of our society in a shitty hotel with no internet sounds great to me! And if we have to pay double, per person per month, to pay for 10 times less overall with lower crime and recidivism, then why would we not take that investment?
It doesn't actually reduce recidivism though. That's them padding their stats by including low level crimes e.g. "I had an ounce of weed" and financial crime (which bars you from repeating once sentenced) with Breivik. What the 80% US stat is people in for violent or gang related crimes (which are the majority in the us), going back to being gang bangers as opposed to Norwegian petty criminals either not getting caught again or stopping. The US number is also over 5 years as opposed to Norway's 2 years while they're literally on parole (who does crime when they have an ankle monitor on?). US has the same recidivism rate if you discount people who rightfully go into max sec because they're stacking bodies in the streets.
@RichieBre A bullet and a rain coat costs under $50. You haven't actually made an argument why Breiviks victims should be paying for his jerk off room instead of just shooting him
Note that this data is extremely skewed, as with most statistics you can lie if you don't take into account the *variables*. The variables here being the *people*. Yes this model works well specifically on *Scandinavians* but it does *NOT* work with other people, we have already begun to see this with migrants from MENA that form gangs in Scandinavia now, they treat the prison period as the hotel that it is and laugh about it, use it to socialize with their fellow criminals and make criminal plans for the future. Almost all of them become repeat offenders. Note that the repeat offending as your stats showed already was a problem for minority of Scandi inmates too, but with the migrants the numbers are reversed *most* of them and almost *all* of the gang-related inmates re-offend.
prisons in the US are run by private companies that lobby the government to be "tough on criminals" it's not about rehabilitation. it's about making money. bravo Norway. the UK should learn from this.
the UK or US should learn about this? you started by talking about the US and then said that "the UK should learn from this". Do you mean both or only one of them?
Just a small technicality at 17:00. The phrasing that people have migrated from "elsewhere in the EU" implies that norway is in the EU, which it is not. Both the EU and norway have close ties, though.
12:32 This argument is so good that it makes me feel the prison ladder system needs to be universally adopted. Irrespective of whether the goal is punishment or rehabilitation. If someone is going to be released just tomorrow, it makes no sense to keep them in a high security prison today. Depending on how this is managed, it can even reduce overall costs (if the cost of better facilities given in any stage is less than the cost of higher security in the previous stage).
Any parent with half a brain cell can relate to it too. You teach your child responsibility one step at a time. When they act out, you remove privelages, when they prove themselves, you give more freedom. And eventually, you get a stable adult. Considering how many inmates have problematic pasts and upbringing, it just makes sense that to "fix" it, you treat them the same way.
0:33 Right there you see why the lobyists push for 'tough on crime' and 'private prisons' in the US. Due to the loophole in the 13th Amendment ("except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,"), it is literally legalized slavery, with the token payment making it "Slavery with extra steps."
I feel like there is conflation here. You should be tough on crime, if someone commits a crime they should be sent to jail with no exceptions. How we treat them and rehabilitate them in jail needs to change however. Prisons right now are basically a company with is messed up
I appreciate that the quoted sections are audibly different but it does make it harder to hear. Maybe you could increaase the volume of them to match the rest of the video?
I mean if your goal is for the criminals of society to become lawful citizens, you need to give them the ability to lead the lives of lawful citizens under guidance
"No the gang banger who killed 5 people over an ounce of weed is totally going to reform from this, it worked for a guy who got arrested for securities fraud and is now legally barred from touching stock or managing finances ever again (He physically can't reoffend)"
@gustavusadolphus4344 The Norwegian prison system ends up being cheaper than the US system per capita due to lower incarceration rates and lower prison sentences. Even if we don't factor that in, Norway's GDP per capita isn't that much higher than the US. The US is a really wealthy country. They're just not very efficient at spending their money for the sake of their people.
What about the ankle bracelet crowd being sentenced to community service in prisions? They live in prison but get in many ways treated like staff. They get training on coaching other prisioners, they tutor in educational programs, etc... then you raise the proportion of almost normal people in prison while still recognizing low risk prisoners.
People are always learning. If you put them in a studio apartment where they aren't allowed to leave but have access to productive content, they learn to improve themselves. If you put them in an environment where they can only learn to be a criminal to survive, they become criminals.
Thought experiment: I lock you in a cell 1 hour outside time to play basketball there is a shared toilet and you stay there for 32 months did your madness increase or decrease even if you didn't commit a crime before?
Yep. Increase. And that isn't even including prison guards who inevitably act like those in the Stanford prison experiment, becoming more cruel and viewing others as lower just because they were handed power over other humans.
@justinjakeashtontaxes aren't stealing its a fractional group payment service to keep your cushy life with public amenities you take for granted functional and the people who run them from starving to death because its not a "for profit" model.
I love this Norwegian method so much. Positive treating methods lead to positive outcomes. I'm from the Netherlands and here to we are for rehabilitation rather than punishment.
The job applications thing is a big deal. I had a friend in mangment at a portable restroom company. He was looking through applications and was dismisding the felons. I asked him what job would be suitable for a person with a felon if they couldn't even get a job cleaning port-a-potties. Plus, they could have lied, but told the truth. He ended up hiring 3 guys who checked they had a felony. 2 of the guys got them from being gangster when they wete very young. Good guys now.
@theownmages Let's not hate on soldiers. Soldier accommodations are frequently better than the worst prisons, if worse than the nicest. Sometimes they are worse - I think I would prefer even a horrible prison over hiding from shelling in a foxhole I had to dig myself over the same duration. The differences might have more to do with economics - a prisoner treated more like a person costs society less than to do otherwise. A soldier with better accommodations beyond some threshold might not be sufficiently more effective at their job. Finally, my understanding is that soldiers are much more likely to become re-join society successfully than prisoners - I'd be very surprised to learn that 25% of all soldiers end up going to prison (comparing the lowest recidivism rates), and would expect various military organizations to make significant changes were that so. Instead, military service members also often learn valuable skills during their time and are quite employable. I have no complaints about the work ethic of the various known former military service members I have worked with and would be happy to work with more (one had also been in jail or prison or something at one point; that is the only one I have any complaints about the personality of). I have only worked with one known returned felon (the soldier friend might have been one too, or a misdemeanor or something?) and I found him somewhat beaten down, working phone support despite having two masters degrees from before. I think society would have benefited from giving him a better chance after his return as he was prevented from fully applying his intelligence and education to relevant problems.
Hi, norwegian here. I just want to point out that it's not strappen, but trappen. Fengsel = Prison Trapp = Staircase fengsel + s + trapp + en = fengselstrappen That s is not part of the word trapp. It is not turning trapp into strapp. It’s just a connector between the two nouns.
ja, det høres rart ut når han sier trappen på den måten der (selv om aksenten er kanskje også litt uvant), men han var flink da som inkluderte de norske begrepene også. men fint at du påpeker det
America's prisons allow for criminals to become "better" criminals. We've known this forever. It won't change though because of money. Many prisons in America, even minors, are literally for profit prisons!
All prisons are for profit prisons. No one is volunteering to run these places, are they? No, everyone that works at a prison is getting paid to do so. All prisons are for profit prisons
@trevors6379 A for-profit (or private) prison in the United States is a correctional facility operated by a third-party, for-profit corporation rather than a government agency, contracted to house inmates on behalf of federal or state governments. These companies, such as CoreCivic and GEO Group, are paid a daily or monthly rate per inmate to manage facilities, often focusing on cost-cutting to generate profit. You are misinformed Sir.
@trevors6379 Was gonna leave this alone, but I have to say, this type of comment is indicitive of the ignorance of the people of America. Thinking a gov't or non-profit is the same as a for profit organization because the workers get paid for their work is unbelievably stupid. I'm sorry, it just is really dumb thing to think and then type something so idiotic.
The Prison industrial complex and police unions are a major part in this medievalist paradigm in America. Besides money however, another major factor is the culture that's pervasive, especially among Republicans, that loves seeing inmates suffer
It's almost like treating people with dignity and respect instead of like animal savages (even when they might be acting like animal savages right now) leads to better outcomes.
@ChatJPB Because it doesn't work, ignoring human biodiversity results in Minnesota having Norway demographics in the 90s to the endless troubles it has now.
Why not both? Prisons that rehabilitate for your low and mid-level crimes, but harsh prisons and executions for your true monsters. It doesn't have to be either/or.
because people in humaine society are, well, humaine, they don't want execution and even besides a slim chance of executing falsely accused, what about people carrying out executions, it's not something a normal person should experience i won't feel bad for murders when they treated like animals on a condition that they won't leave the prison, but guards who treat they like that will experience treating other people, even if worst of us, like animals and it will make them worse and they will be somebody's neighbors and family members
@musicfriendly12 There are monsters and there is evil. Cancer is a monster of a disease. Some people truly act as cancer on society. The issue is determining who those people are. Evil is cancer not the absence of good. Some people would just be selfish and harmful to others no matter the morality system implemented by that society.
@grdchldif there's even a shadow of a doubt then obviously no one should be executed. But in the case of the man at the end of this video, he admitted his crimes without remorse, there is no doubt, so why should he be allowed to continue infecting the world?
I don't care how genius it is, my taxpayer money shouldn't be going towards making life comfortable for criminals. I want my taxpayer money to go towards a variety of other more important things that I could list.
Have you been to prison? I have, for one year, in America no less. Trust me, if you had the opportunity to live amongst & mingle with my esteemed colleagues for just one weekend, you’d be petitioning your congressman to pass harsher/longer incarceration terms ….
@davemccage7918 I have, and every single one of those dudes were going to go out and do the same shit. They had nothing else to do. No work, no home, no way to make. The system is broken bro
Worst yet, is that if either extreme happened (all people stayed in prison forever, or every person that came out stayed ut forever), the system would break.
I'd like to address the 'cost' argument. You can't just address the cost of the prison itself, but also the cost of lost tax revenue from someone being IN the prison, which when combined with the liklihood of someone being in prison and how long they're there, makes the upfront cost a lot better.
10:40 This is absolutely correct, which too many people seem to not grasp, even in Norway: the limitation of freedom IS the punishment. I hope US develops their moral philosophy.
The us prison system is so backwards in many ways that its worse than in Russia. No joke, Russian prisoners have more strongly protected family rights than American prisoners.
The American prison system is also made to keep people in. Private prisons make so much money. American prisons also have tvs, Xbox’s, and other luxuries depending on the prison. I know people who had tvs in their cell. The real problem are police and private prisons
So what's the lowest minimum crime one would need to commit in Norway to get sent to one of those prison cells? Asking for a friend whose apartment looks worse than those cells and costs $2500 a month.
I feel like these 3D-printed props are such a good addition to the channel. Especially liked them in the episode about housing, but they tie in here nicely as well.
Lol, ok. When someone rpes then slits your partner's or mom's throat in front you, you'll be glad to know that they get treated nicely in their punishment. Maybe include that thought of comfort at the eulogy.
@VizimaMerchant "guys, you dont understand, we need to ensure drug crime remains high and recitivism remains large because...we get to punish people for our own pleasure!" you're a moron
Something very important is: fixing the prison system isn't a golden bullet itself. A lot of other aspects need to be fixed too. For example: these types of prisons could increase the criminality rate, because in prison a lot of people would have at least a "house" to live, and a bed to sleep...
In the US, cruelty is the goal, not rehabilitation, not reform, not even lowering the crime rate. The US is too sadistic to even consider these things.
I agree cruelty is the goal, but I don't see that you can call it sadism - to do so is to imply that it is illegitimate to punish wrongdoing, or taking it to its logical conclusion, that there is no right or wrong and all notions of justice must be discarded.
@MichaelWilde-u2d So, when someone molests a child and gets sent to prison, they should be made comfortable and coddled? Perhaps you could deliver milk and cookies to them every morning on a velvet pillow?
@walter_lesaulnier No, they should be reformed if possible. Just treating them like animals has insured for hundreds of years that they eventually get out and reoffend. Hundreds of years of statistics prove that punishment alone has not cut down on our crime rate. I'd rather they be made safe to be in our society instead of being made more dangerous. Now the question to you is: 'So, when someone is unable to pay a speeding ticket, should we torture them?'
Unfortunately in the US there are four types of incarceration, jails at county level, state prison, federal prison, and federal detention. All with different sources of monetary budgets, different accountability types, different policies, different operational conditions. Norway corrections has one source for funding, one source for accountability and one operational guide lines. Plus they have 500 employees to 300 inmates at one facility. At the institution I work at we have 500 employees to 1,800 inmates. The federal standard is 50 inmates to one security officer. Not many facilities can come close to this standard.
Add to that different laws, funding and levels of privatization for each of those 4 types varying wildly from state to state. But the average is still bad and the outliers borderlining on atrocities
1st time i saw norwegian prison, i got angry, because it was way nicer then my dorm room that i paid 300€ a month for. While those prisoners also have free uni lmao
@davemccage7918 That statistic isn’t accurate, but even if it were, it wouldn’t explain the point of the video. Norway had much higher recidivism in the 1980s and reduced it after reforming its prison system in the 1990s. The population didn’t suddenly change in that period, instead, the policy did. That’s why researchers usually focus on prison design, sentencing, and reintegration support when comparing recidivism across countries.
@Tahoza Singapore faced the even worse conditions with higher crime rates and recidivism but chose to go the opposite route and have longer sentences with prisons even worse often sleeping on straw mats. Recidivism is even lower than Norway. Singapore has more per capita criminals than Norway in prison but they also have a significantly lower crime rate. The US has tried and still is trying rehabilitation models at some prisons with mixed results but both Norway and Singapore are not like the USA in size or composition of peoples so either model will fail unless the communities are changed.
@spectacles-dmWhat? Black people commit more crimes it’s just a fact. Areas with less black people have less prison inmates. We can debate on the numerous reasons why that is, but just ignoring the fact that black people have a problem with criminal behavior isn’t helping anyone, especially black people.
Yo, Norwegian here. This whole video I was sitting here wondering what "Strappen" meant, until I realized that you incorrectly deconstructed the word "Fengselstrappen". You may know that, in Norwegian, like many other Germanic languages, we can chain together words to indicate that they're one "concept". Let me break down what you did wrong: The word "Fengselsstraffen" is made up of "Fengsel" (jail/prison) and "Straff" (punishment). When combining these words you add the possessive particle "s" after "fengsel" to indicate that the following word is something possessed by/serving the previous word. So, we get "fengselsstraff". Then you would add the correct tense for your use case. Here the correct one is "en" because it's the definite single or however you'd translate that to English. So, when you change word "Fengselsstraffen" to "Fengselstrappen"(made up of "fengsel"(jail/prison) and "trapp"(staircase)) the "s" particle is still owned by "fengsel", not "trapp". I can see how you made the mistake, but it getting so far in the script that you 3d-printed a model with it on and included it in the final script is just kind of funny to me. Keep up the otherwise good work! Also, a note on the solitary confinement and suicide part: I've visited Sem fengsel with my school once, and i know a couple of people who worked for Kriminellomsorgen. Because we have it so nice here in Norway, a lot of the people who end up doing bad stuff are mostly just mentally ill people who slipped past the system. These are people who have lived most of their lives seemingly normally, but whom have had an underlying condition their whole lives. These are people who are more prone to outbursts or psychotic behavior, but have just never gotten help. I believe this is also a part of why the suicide rate is so high. They end up having to place these people in solitary confinement to prevent them from hurting themselves, just because they don't have the proper resources to handle cases like these. On the other side of the spectrum are people who grew up financially challenged, and/or discriminated against. I once talked to the former leader of Oslo Young Bloods when he was in jail. He was a pretty nice guy just chatting to him. He had obviously seen quite a lot in his life. He never planned to get into crime, but things just spiraled out of control. The gang started as a way to defend themselves from neo-nazis in Oslo and helping the local community, but then they started lending out money. Then they had to collect the money from people who didn't pay up. Then they started hooking people up. Then they started selling drugs. Then they ordered hits... and so on. Products of circumstance.
@Radishals It's funny and ironic how he made such a big deal and wrote a whole paragraph on it ending with "getting so far in the script that you 3d-printed a model with it on and included it in the final script is just kind of funny to me." when he was the one that missed that it wasn't Spectacles "mistake" but a purposeful change made by the prison officers as referenced specifically 10:55.
I really like how you make the case for Norway's system, but thoughtfully acknowledge that simply copy and pasting the system really anywhere else, let alone the US, would not have the same affect. As you say, several parts of Norway's system would make a huge difference in the US, but what Norway's society want's to rehabilitate the prisoners. Without that, the system is missing a crucial piece. I know several people who would really like this video. Thank you!
0:20 actually you are and have been allowed to own a TV in American prison cells, at least in California. They even used to let you have Xboxes. As long as you are level 3 or below, which is a good portion of prisoners. Last year they began lending every inmate a very restricted, very cheap iPad. The inmates can listen to music, watch movies, and play games on them as long as they're paying a monthly subscription which many inmates can afford with the money from their jobs. You're also allowed to be outside pretty much all day if you want to. The main thing limiting you is if the COs feel like letting you out that day or not.
Amenity restrictions are pretty much only for high risk (e.g. guys who really shouldn't be in gen pop to begin with or have shoe laces). He does these little sneaky things of comparing max sec with min sec norwegian stuff all throughout the video because this is just straight up propaganda. The whole recidivism thing is him comparing financial crimes and kids selling pot/acid over a 2 year parole period vs 5 years that extends after parole for people in for assault with a deadly weapon.
Peoples desire to have criminals suffer brutally is far stronger than peoples desire to have an irrefutably better, cheaper, more effective prison system. In other words people would rather live in worse conditions knowing that evil criminals are suffering than live in nicer conditions knowing evil criminals aren't suffering. Norway displays immense maturity and intelligence in being able to overcome those dark powerful primal urges in my opinion. It's almost like they're a few centuries ahead of the rest of the world.
people couldnt care less, its just that all those changes need to be *implemented* and "liberal" "commie" prissons arent even on a todo list for usgov right now
I don't think wanting crimials to suffer is a primal urge, just a societal thing. As a German, I have never had that desire, and it always seems weird to me hearing your judges pulling out phrases like 'May your soul rot in hell'. That's just not a nice thing to say to anyone.
Sweden shares a similar approach to prisons. In 2006, an officer forgot to lock up a unit one night. Six prisoners realised and went of a spree of fun. They baked brownies, watched a film and made a blanket fort. Then they cleaned up the kitchen and went to bed. The prisoners were not punished. It was deemed they had done no harm. The officers had their pay docked for failing to carry out their duties.
>person does bad thing > punch person in gut and scream at them >person does not have less incentive to do bad thing >person does bad thing >get them help so that they no longer desire/need to do bad thing >they have less incentive to do bad thing Maybe I should be a fucking psych major because this shit is easy
Yeah, next time you see a thief take him home with you. Next time you see a murderer have family holidays with him. God you re a Darwin award waiting to happen. If you want to be stupid, only put your skin in the game, not the whole society's.
I believe in a mix of "soft/nice" prisons and super harsh prisons. For most first-time offenders, crimes that did not majorly injure or kill anyone, prisons should at least attempt to get them back into society. However, for repeat offenders or major crimes. I believe in a very harsh punishment. I would love to see how the American, Norwegian, and something like Saudi, Chinese, or El Salvador prisons compare to really get a full look into the pros and cons of each. However the biggest part of the issue is part of societal norms. Nordic countries only function the way they do because of the high trust in society. I did my exchange in Denmark, and it is very clear how this high trust is absolutely everywhere. My biggest issue with it, is that if enough people stop the "high trust culture", I believe that it would come crashing down. Take for example what is currently going on in Sweden.
I think difficulty with implementing this elsewhere is that the quality of life in a prison shouldn't be higher than that of the poorest citizens. I feel frustrated at its system because I know that the treatment these prisoners get is better than many hard working honest people. Before we make prisons humane, we have to make society and regular life be so as well. (of course, Norway I believe and hope has reached that point)
The quality of life you get in those prisons is offset by the fact you are still confined there until your sentence expires. I’m really tired of people underestimating just how much confinement and a lack of freedom can affect your well being. The common practice of putting them in poor conditions on top of that has me surprised more people don’t snap from it.
🙄You should be able to walk & chew bubblegum. There's NO reason why the wealthiest nation on the planet CAN'T improve the lives of average citizens AND bring dignified humanity to the correctional system...
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Do you think Norway's prisons make sense?
For citations, turn on English CC. All sources listed in description.
- some notes & corrections below -
† Norwegian recidivism rates are disputed, but our 25% claim is supported by many academics. See the description to learn more about this.
✱ American prison statistics are notoriously unreliable. See the description for a full disclaimer and explanation about our approach.
- We normally like to provide URL links to as many sources as we can. But this video has so many, it actually went over RUclips's description character limit. Follow the link to the script up above in the description, if you want links to any of our sources. We've put all we could provide there.
- I mispronounced "fengsel" as "fengel" throughout the video. Sorry, Norwegians.
- "Fengselsstrappen" and "strappen" should be "Fengselstrappen" and "trappen."
Do you have an English copy of the 1978 paper for why the then status quo of prisons was bad?
The social safety nets of Norway have a lot to do with reducing recidivism.
In America a prisoner is released onto the streets with nothing other than parole officer whose job is find excuses to put them back in jail.
In Norway they get an apartment, food, and money. They don't have to commit crimes just stay alive. Social workers than manage their lives to help keep them out of prison.
The concept of prison being a luxury in any way is disgusting, how about just not torturing people as such in the first place?
Correlation is not causation.
Homicide rate can come from the amount of weapons in the population (as well as suicide rate in fact).
Illegal immigration cannot be compared since there's a big difference in borders.
As an American if that's what our prisons looked like I would be retired already. So trust me you would have more prisoners if you did this in the USA. Won't work.
legends say he is recording this in a norway prison
i actually thought he was just one the inmates but with a youtube hobby
Oooh that's why he's wearing an orange suit😄
Yeah, but the bottom-line... "the truth will still set you free"!
:D
that was i thinking about it😂
"The 3D printer was a business expense"
for real bro XDDDDD
What a great choice tho
Hey it makes for good visuals
I mean, it was, right? Right :)
They could've also given the design to a 3-D printing studio and bought it from them, lol, but yeah.
(or maybe their local library lets you 3-D print for free*)
*You often still have to pay for the materials
This man’s 3D printer is putting in the WORK for this channel.
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2021 ass reply section
Back to the main topic: in America there are favelas and cartels. So a better question is if the war on crime conducted in the middle of America is the only way to get to an environment when Norwegian approach is feasible. Otherwise cartels and gangs will just continue to rule their turf despite better prison experience.
In Pennsylvania, there is a prison project called "Little Scandinavia", where they are testing the Scandinavian prison model.
Wait is that working out well?
Noice, maybe I'll visit the place sometime
@vejet retirement plans
@jayeisenhardt1337 if you don't value freedom, sure.
@kjetilelvensenHaving a guaranteed roof over your head, guaranteed food and medical, all without needing to work 40hours a week for dead end jobs that hate you?
At the "cost" of autonomy, being able to live life on autopilot does sound appealing to many
Norwegian here, I liked the video just a few small additions:
The prisons giving the most freedom and are often shown in media abroad are for people who are on good behavior and often at the last few years of their sentence, they can be sent to more normal (but still humane) prisons if they break that trust.
Average sentences can leave the wrong impression (don't think it was intentional), murderers, child rapists etc. will be spending many years behind bars, and if you are considered likely to re-offend violently, you can easily get a sentence that can be extended indefinitely.
Not directly related to prisons, but our drug laws are still pretty bad with criminalization (it got a bit better) and one of the worst overdose death rates in Europe, so we still have a lot of room to improve.
Same with drugs and suicide, I see the solutions more in beefing up care than in going back on normalization.
And since Spectacles wanted our most famous terrorist to suffer: almost comically he does, he complains all the time and claim his human rights are violated in all sort of nonsense ways.
It's easy to forget that most people don't want to be imprisoned in a shitty motel for years, especially terrorists can get furious. Many of them see themselves as heroes for their deranged causes, and then they get stuck with no internet, and while they can get visitors and can send letters, they can't spread their ideology or get visitors sharing the same. So with normal media ignoring them, and no internet connection, they are simply forgotten isolated from their movement and the status they crave.
Hasn't he sued many times?
The major addition is that Norway is over 90% white, as was Minnesota in the 90s, now it burns, don't ask why.
@RichardBaran Over and over and over again. From what it sounds like, he latest suit shows that he is finally realizing the FAFO is real and has started trying to hide his nazi ideology and pretend he is remorseful for his actions, whereas in earlier trials he was openly seig heiling in court. He is miserable and thinks that will earn him sympathy, whereas most people just enjoy the schadenfreude even if his suffering is more "not having good enough video games to play" and not the whole "was murdered by a far right terrorist" like his victims.
@radomaneAgreed, I should have made that more clear.
@churblefurbles Did you watch the video? We had even worse problems when we were whiter, it's about policy, not ethnicity.
I disagree with your point at the end, the American prison system isn't broken, it's working exactly as intended; which is the problem.
Yep. Unfortunately once you are in the system it is designed to keep you there. Make it hard to find a job, a place to live, can't vote, restitution payment to the state and even the feds and then they wanna say that it's to protect society. Some people should never see the light of day again but prisons in the US used to be called reformatories or correctional facilities since their intention was to try to get people to reintegrate and be productive members of society. Now it's all about punishment that completely outweighs the crime cause it's easier to simply blame the individual and dish out harsher sentences than address the numerous issues in our society. Oh yeah, and it gives corporations practically free labor. Chain gangs used to be equated with working fields and quarries. Today it's been replaced with everyday goods sold in stores.
@VideoCesar07 Nail on the bloody head mate. Also worthy mention is the private prisons that are run for-profit (government prisons are also run for profit but giving that control to a private entity is so much worse), and for some reason nobody seems to care about any of it.
If you have an institution that's goal is supposed to be rehabilitation of criminals, why on earth would you want to incentivise that institution against rehabilitating and releasing those criminals. The whole scam sets them up for repeated failure, institutionalising them to the point where prison's there only option.
Then you factor in the slave labour with the fact that people of colour are arrested far more often, and for far longer sentences for the exact same crimes, hell, most of the time lesser crimes than their white constituents, and you've got the good old United Klans of America still practicing slavery in 2026, completely legal and "moral" in the eyes of every day people who are either too ignorant, stupid, uncaring, or all three to do anything about it.
What a lovely country.
I think i seen somewhere that prisons are big business in US. So it's obviously that low expense and constant "customers" is the main goal for the benefactor of such situation as profits are more important than anything for many soulless would be capitalists.
US businesses love slave labor
@s@somnorila9913private prisons do exist in a little over half of the states, but less than 10% of the US prison population resides within them.
The philosophy make sense when you remember that to feel protected in a normal prison in the US you need to join a gang for protection which would promote troublemaker to harden criminal
Why in oblivion does the USA not keep violent and non violent prizoners seperate? Does it really lack recources? The so called richest country in the world.
Same in Brazil. One of our most dangerous criminal organization was born inside the prison system
There's a reason why US prisons have the nickname Criminal Schools
That, and also, when you treat people like animals, they get the message that this is what they are. Self-respect is actually a major part of rehabilitation. The idea that you have an inherent dignity is a powerful force for redemption. By contrast, when you treat people like THIS, you're actually sending the message that human life itself is worthless, which doesn't encourage repentance but an even more ferocious nihilistic predatory impulse. American prisons are practically temples of nihilism. There's a spectrum, from most to least humane, and I feel the American prison system literally picked the LEAST effective point on that spectrum, seemingly on purpose. It's inhumane enough to be dehumanizing and to undo any notion that human life is worthwhile or worthy of respect, but not actually inhumane enough to be scary. It's like EITHER shift would be an improvement.
@alexanderfretheim5720 Yes, its like the USA cant decide if it wants gulags or reformation centers. Which Id chose depends on how much power I have and how emotional I am. My personality is totalitarian, but logic dictates I should follow the best international practices (would make seperate prizons for europians and africans as I dout the europian way would work with africans but we would see), and being 1 man I would make that choice instead of doing bough.
I very much believe in this kind of system, you cant treat humans like animals and then expect them not to act like animals.
Aren't they in prison because they acted like animals in the first place?
I very much agree with your point, except that we shouldn't be treating animals like that either, it's part of the same fucked up abusive mentality, combined with extreme chauvinism, speciesism, anthropocentric narcissism, and supremacism. Non-human animals suffer just as much as we do, the fact that we CAN torture them doesn't entitle us to.
When regular people are treated like animals in US, how do you expect people to be treated in a prison?
@Volatile-Tortoise if we agree that raising animals just to slaughter them is acceptable, we can probably also agree that conditions of said animals could be much better. You can have the animal live almost a "normal" life and magically disappear one day without suffering. And we can claim that striving for that, is a good thing. But wouldnt that be playing god, for said animals? You think we should not feel superior, but what part of controlling the entire existence of the farm species, doesnt scream supremacy? If we stop eating animals, we have to either execute and have them go extinct, or release them into an environent that cant house them, nor can it regulate them with predators. We cannot be on the same level.
the scary thing is how often things get proven to be more humane and better at the same time, yet never adopted
The cruelty is the point.
The United States of America has this medieval style view that justice means making inmates suffer as much as possible
Carl rogers should be read as a must.
@Histrionicer-j1h What is said about the US is "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing-after they've tried everything else."
The American prison system is designed to extract maximum value from the inmates and from the government to enrich the shareholders. The high recidivism rate is an by design.
"Why is America's sentencing and reincarceration rate so high?"
"American prisoners are forced to work for corporations for less than 1 dollar an hour."
Americans can reincarnate? That's amazing!
@MaeveMallow Americans can never escape samsara
@MaeveMallow Autoincorrect...
Honestly... based. Put them to work. If they won't willingly benefit society, then force them to.
@SunBane67 Apply that logic to billionaires first, please.
the misunderstanding is interpreting the US prison population endlessly increasing as a bug, when it is a feature that is fully intended, as a way to supply the private prison-industrial complex with an inexhaustible source of slave labour.
Bur this sort of logic falls flat when one realizes that private prisons are on their ways out. My state recently closed down its last one.
@aycc-nbh7289 Who governs your state? Is it people who call for harder punishments or people who speak of re-socialization?
@Alexandra-s8g8jMostly people of the latter category. I doubt private prisons would do much to encourage the possibility of people being paroled if they have capacity quotas.
@aycc-nbh7289 Well, there you have the answer. People who want hard punishments have no real interest in keeping crime rates low, they want a steady flow of slave-work and easy targets they can inflict their cruelty on. Which means private prisons.
And people who want to prevent crime and re-socialization get rid of private prisons. So the logic of the original statement doesn't fall flat.
@Alexandra-s8g8jI mostly agree with you, but I’m saying that private prisons are seeing their doors shuttered and places are slowly looking at the fact that they may not be the best idea. If what the original comment says still happens in places that close their private prisons, then private prisons are not the issue.
I think it's worth it to mention that "betjent" doesn't mean "officer" but instead means "server" or "butler". Paints a more radical and more accurate picture.
Is RUclips killing this channel? I love the coverage and the production quality, I can't fathom how you're getting less than a thousand views in the first hour.
I'm subscribed, and it never gave me the notification of a new video.
@CAG83I had this happen a lot or I will "get" the notification but it won't actually come through instead it will just sit in the RUclips apps notification list for some stupid fucking reason.
RUclips likes to shadowban people who post the truth like this amazing channel
Probably due to violating one of RUclips's sacred censorship laws by mentioning the "S" word (for self-delete)
I couldn't watch the video immediately, I did try, but I kept getting bombarded with 60 seconds of unskipable ads.
Eventually I was given only 30 seconds of ads, so I started watching the video, until a 55 second long block of unskipable ads interrupted the video.
I don't mind watching a couple of 10 or 15 second long ads to help support a creator, but recently RUclips has been taking the right piss with the amount of adverts, the length of adverts, and how frequently they interrupt videos.
"Luxury prison cell" *shows a normal room, expected of someone who wants to do better in life*
It's time you check your privileges. I was raised in a state run foster home and my room was close to your standard prison cell.
Nobody told it was rough on kids and adolecents.
I always thought prisoners had more rights than us and more perks, I was always right!
@programaths so you're saying all state run foster homes should be horrible and punish kids for having bad or dead parents? interesting
that's a fucking 3 star hotel room. money sink that could be used on people that actually deserve it
@GenshinYuppe The Norwegian government literally help pay for apartments, food and mandatory expenses for families who struggle and can’t pay for most if not all of the above. It’s not a lot of money, but it’s enough to help relieve the stress off of families who need it the most (this isn’t only for families, but also for individuals). This is obviously limited and the focus has to be to get a job and become financially stable and independent. If the person refuses to work towards that then they lose the financial support
@GenshinYuppe are you saying people who're so poor and neglected they have to steal things not to die or to feed their family **doesnt need it**?? what's wrong with you-
what a surprise people hate it when they get tortured
Unless you're a cenobite
I hate when I get robbed or when someone I loved is murdered.
@10011110011 But then if you try to take "extra revenge" you make sure that the offender will try again after release. And also the other extreme HAS been tried in history with epic failure. Namely only death penalty, no matter the crime. The end result was that pickpockets turned into murderers and rebels (this was ancient greece). Criminals always outproduce, out-breed normal people so killing them off the moment they were caught was no solution. This is what we call Draconian laws
@nagyzoli the fact you called "just punishment" as revenge shows we have nothing to talk about. You dont care about other people's loss, only your own "moral superiority".
As the saying goes: your "boos"means nothing for I saw what makes you cheer.
@j.e.3276 More likely they need more supports, especially psychological services. I remember falling down the rabbit hole when working in emergency services being curious why people reoffend in these countries and a lot is dealing with mental disorders that need even more supports
5:06 For those trying to understand how "2 guards killed by inmates in 2 years" translates, the average is 3-5 guards killed in the US per year.
Norway is a small country and the US is large; a guard a year scaled up from their size to ours would be over a dozen.
Seriously read my mind, I was all, is that supposed to be “bad” 😬😬😬
Your comment is doing a disservice to those trying to understand how "2 guards killed by inmates in 2 years" translates. You just gave a statistic and didn't try hard enough to "translate".
Given the number of guards in each country as a percentage of the total 1 guard in Norway is the equivalent of about 150 in the US. So it would take 300 US guards killed by inmates in 2 years for the equivalent percentage. 3 to 5 in the US in a year is a vastly lower percentage than 1 in Norway.
But 2 in 2 years is such a small sample size that I wouldn't even try to use it as a basis for comparison. Even without prison reforms Norway could easily go for a number of years with no prison guards killed when the number is that small.
I’m guessing Americans need a statistic converted into their country so that they understand it
Us has 60 times as many people
I always love the physical props for visual storytelling. It's quite brilliant.
More plastic waste.
@SwordQuake2
Do you buy anything packaged in plastic?
Have you ever bought something from Temu or Wish?
Do you buy clothes containing polyester?
It's really easy to judge somebody creating something from plastic, yet you throw plastic packaging to the trash yourself.
I'd bet these props will not end up in waste, at least not in the coming years.
@SwordQuake2 We don't know what he does with them after he's done that, so I can't really assume. What I will assume is that you wanted to be a party pooper. Never happy about anything.
This comment prompted me to subscribe.
@SwordQuake23d printing tech is advancing pretty rapidly, and very soon enough you will be able to take these prints, break them down and turn them into new filament to use for future prints(there's already successful DIY examples across youtube)
you don't understand, the US wants more prisoners since they make money out of them.
Slavery was never abolished, it just changed form.
Or in some prisons shitty/cramped/barred conditions cost less than proper single person cells giving proper re-hab.
Their whole culture is about punishing people. Punishing blacks by sending them to prison at far greater rates. Punishing women for having sex by limiting birth control and then forcing them to have babies if they get pregnant. Too bad the people who deserve the harshest punishment run the country.
And we don't live in a homogeneous society, black people make up about 13% of our population and between 85-88 of our prison population, for this reason I don't want our prisons to be a nice place to live, they get older,but they don't grow
@WromWromslaves were productive, inmates are not
2:20 Strappen is actually supposed to be Trappen :P Fengselstrappen is a combination of Fengsel and Trappen, the S in the middle is just there to tie those words together
So you're telling me the online course to be smegler av eiendom is a scam?!
@wallemmediaHAHAHAH
hahahah yeah it's very noticeable when watching
He's at least trying. Gi ham en sjanse :'(
@wallemmedia Den tog en stund att fatta, och då letar jag ändå nytt boende. 🙂
21:00 I think the big overarching problem is with how privatized our prison system is there is almost an incentive to do the exact opposite to increase business. I think the way the prison system is privatized in the United States needs to be fundamentally overhauled with a large emphasis on penalizing institutes with high re-offense rates and rewarding those with low rates rather then just simply paying them to hold prisoners.
FRFR, this is a bipartisan support issue and it doesn't happen because politicians are corrupt af. Prisons cost money to run, "small government" types don't want relativism because it's government over=reach and bad for the bottom line, "government as a service" types don't want high relativism because it means the government isn't doing work for the money. Nobody /likes/ that prisons are gang HQ but the people on top keep on pushing it through.
There you go again, thinking that punishment is the solution to everything. This mindset is the problem
@thomaswatvedt5812 what? When did i say punishment was the solution? Im saying their should be an economic incentive for institutes to focus on rehabilitating prisoners rather then just locking them away. Theres a very very big difference between paying a institute less for not doing a job and punishment. What do you purpose, writing the for profit prison institutes a strongly worded letter???
@TheLizard25 And there you go again, thinking that an economic incentive is the solution to everything. A prison shouldn't be a money making activity in the first place. You can't make money on inmates without turning them into slaves.
@thomaswatvedt5812 Theres a difference between using inmate labor and the government paying private prisons to house prisoners. I agree with you though the prison system shouldnt be for profit but acting like that is a viable solution in the US right now is delusional. It would be nice to have a system where prisons are all government run but thats impossible in the US currently and until lobbying is dismantled it will not occur. My solution is a realistically viable option.
The staircase principle has got to be the easiest to implement and most helpful for a start.
Does America really mix violent and non violent criminals?
A lot of people come out of prison and have nothing. No job, no permanent place to stay.
Making the transition easier helps a lot.
@zadarthulecan't have phones, just check in with parole, can't hang around any other felons etc. it's basically impossible to win.
@sadmermaid From what i've heard the american prison system is just a conveinent way to legalise slavery without the name.
As you force the prisoners to work for no pay and pocket the profits. This also means its in the prisons best intrests that you will end up back there after your sentence.
@XenithShadowyup. Indentured slavery.
At bare minimum, we should implement similar prisons for nonviolent offenders at first, and try to expand slowly
Who will think of the for-profit prisons' CEOs & shareholders?
/s
At least for low level offenders
@notorioustori You mean the less than 8% of prisoners in private prisons. People keep thinking its way more and that it is. The prison industrial complex isn't keeping prisons shitty, they play such a small role.
I completely disagree. If you steal in a nation like Norway, you are not stealing out of necessity
I was just thinking “Can’t we have both?”
This is the hill I have died on so many times while arguing with my family. that people given the opportunity and support can change for the better.
Agreed
Most can change. But for people like Breivik death penalty should still be an option.
@Nick-pb5lc why? don't get me wrong, I too think Breivik was a horrible person who i have no sympathy for. but why the death penalty? is it just because as form or revenge or grudge? is it because you think the world would be saver if we allowed the state to kill some people? here is the thing. you have to be very very sure before you set up a system designed for ending the lives of others against there will that it will actually do what you want it to do. personally i have moral objections against killing people, anyone. but even if I hadn't the death penalty just isn't good at anything. It makes the world more dangerous as criminals who fear they will get the death penalty are incentivised to kill anyone who witnessed their acts. It has been proven that it does not reduce the amount of crime. And even if it is meant as just punishment, someone who is dead can't really feel anything. is it punishment if you are not there to witness it?
and finally, it brings a huge risk. because, like i agree breivik is obviously a horrid person. but you can't exactly make a law to just punish him. how will you ensure that the people who are punished by death are actually "horrible enough" to deserve it? how do you ensure that they have actually done the crime they are going to be put to death for? we aren't the first people to talk about this. the death penalty in the us for example often takes years to be executed (with some dying in their cells of old age) because of all the work that has to be done before you can put someone to death. and even still, it is not rare at all to have an innocent be put to death and only find out after he was innocent.
so is it worth it? all this work, uncertainty, with no clear benefit just so we can finally get to end Breiviks life? In my opinion it is not. but not just mine opinion, many victims or their remaining family members of such horrid criminals have spoken out against the death penalty. a common myth is that the death penalty provides closure, it does not. it can create years of uncertainty where suspect is in death row. waiting for it to be done. and if it is done, and afterwards it is discovered the person was innocent after all, imagine how the family feels then? an falsely imprisoned individual, horrid as that experience is, can be helped out, compensated in part for the lost years of their life. the family can if they feel need to reach out and try to make amends. an innocent put to death is just one more victim of the criminal who was never caught. and a victim of the society that decided the death penalty was worth the life of innocents
You don’t know people obviously your family knows this
Those who gladly profess _"I'm jus gonna do muh liddle ol time."__ and __"I'm gonna gets muh swole up and catch up on muh soaps."_ have no desire to change for the better.
Period.
Stealing cars, punching people on the street and then playing GTA in jail...damn, sounds like dream scenario. :)
In American for-profit prisons, guards often receive no training at all before their first shift. They're expected to learn on the job from their more experienced co-workers, while dealing with convict-guard ratios as high as 60-1.
Less than 8% of prisoners are in private prisons how do you explain the other 92% of not for profit public prisons if it's greedy corporations that are the problem?
@chr@christophers707 inmates are allowed to earn a wage at all, it’s private companies they work for at cents on the dollar. Also Commissary/food is a monopoly in the state of Florida by Aramark. Not to mention things like actually owning underwear or clothing or any footwear that isn’t state crocs, all come from Aramark.
@christophers707because bad practices from private prisons pollute the industry and its culture. They make it worse and drag down reforms.
@robertaylor9218 most issues with prisons would happen with or without privatization. One of the worst prison riots happened in the 70s because of deplorable conditions and that was before privatization.
@christophers707most issues, but private prisons do seem to make everything worse. They also have weird relationships with state legislatures, and bills get passed to keep them full. Because of minimum occupancy clauses in their contracts.
The question to "how do people get treated in prison" is almost always a parallel to "why do people get into prison"
Can you explain what you mean?
@TheReallyClippyi think they mean that your sentence is based on your crime
@TheReallyClippy What did you do to get sentenced to prison. Are you a danger to the tax man, to society, did you make a mistake or did you get given the choice of a fine or a few days/weeks in prison?
The punishment should be proportional to the crime. And thus based on how bad you've been, you should enjoy less or more perks of being free like a PlayStation or living free with an ankle monitor.
or maybe I'm reading manu wrong and they're just saying that when asking "how do we treat our worst?" we should also ask "how did they become our worst?" which is also a valid point.
@TheReallyClippy i think they mean the way they get treated in prison is similar to how their life was leading up to going to prison
@sirjmo not so much your first point, although i do agree, more so the second point.
i was in american prison from the age of 17 till i was 23 it sucked. luckily i stayed out. i 100% did what i was sent to prison for so that wasnt to bad but 5 years ago i did 6 months in jail for something i absolutly did not do and i still havent recovered from that and dont think i ever will. they take everything from you. its a sickening feeling knowing everything you owned or accomplished can just be stolen from you with no refund. and no way to get it back
I hate the idiot fellow citizens of ours who will make every excuse to justify the state or it's enforcement officers abusing a member of the public. The idiots are constitutionally incapable of accepting the fact that once state officers are allowed these misbehaviors free of consequence, then they themselves only need to get pulled over by one of them while they're in a bad mood, for their lives and freedom to be downgraded permanently just due to that officer's pissy mood
Yep. It makes you incredibly angry at the system when you are wrongfully punished for something you haven't done, and for me it made it incredibly hard to trust others for a long time. In my case, one of my working dogs was put in danger because of a false allegation, and I faced prison time while simultaneously being sued for $750k for an attack that was done by another owner's dog entirely. No one even asked if I was involved; my guilt was assumed based on the eye witness testimony of the victim alone, who I had never met, and the attack occured when I was out of state WITH MY DOGS. It was so bizarre. I eventually got the charges dismissed when I threw a lawyer-backed hissy fit, but it took months and a ridiculous amount of money.
I actually work alongside law enforcement (I train and handle tracking/detection and bitework K9s, hence the big scary dogs), so I have very mixed feelings about it. I have plenty of authority figures that I consider close friends and many of them defer to my professional opinions and instructions in the field, but I still instinctively feel like they'd shoot my dogs if they looked at them the wrong way since cops and large, intimidating dogs don't mix well.
Also, most police K9s are unhinged, unreliable, and very poorly trained. Best case scenario, they just aren't accurate; worst case scenario, their inexperienced handlers can't control them without using force, and the dogs bite indiscriminately and aren't reliable off-leash. They keep hiring my team for a reason: We do what they do better, faster, and safer, and my dogs don't make mistakes.
Stay strong and recover.
If you have kids build a life for them, live for them, do it for them.
My uncle spent 30 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. He was finally released after the innocence project helped him. But all that time left psychological scars.
@NotSoNormal1987I wish him well.
It's absurd to me that people thought stripping away all joy in a person's life and then making it impossible to re-enter society would prevent criminals from doing crime
Hearing it costs $100,000 per year per person compared to $40,000 shocked me because that’s really a lot less than I expected. For reducing recidivism from 80% to 25%, halving the rate of violent crime, and reducing overall prison sentences, it could turn out to be less expensive than American prison overall
8 grand a month for litteral murderer is crazy works
@thori1829 8 grand a month to keep a mass murderer out of our society in a shitty hotel with no internet sounds great to me! And if we have to pay double, per person per month, to pay for 10 times less overall with lower crime and recidivism, then why would we not take that investment?
It doesn't actually reduce recidivism though. That's them padding their stats by including low level crimes e.g. "I had an ounce of weed" and financial crime (which bars you from repeating once sentenced) with Breivik.
What the 80% US stat is people in for violent or gang related crimes (which are the majority in the us), going back to being gang bangers as opposed to Norwegian petty criminals either not getting caught again or stopping. The US number is also over 5 years as opposed to Norway's 2 years while they're literally on parole (who does crime when they have an ankle monitor on?).
US has the same recidivism rate if you discount people who rightfully go into max sec because they're stacking bodies in the streets.
@RichieBre A bullet and a rain coat costs under $50. You haven't actually made an argument why Breiviks victims should be paying for his jerk off room instead of just shooting him
@RichieBrea bullet is 0.5$ and 0% recidive raté
2:30 the phrasing here is hilarious
True
Are you suggesting Norwegians are humans too?? Crazy…
fengel strappen made me burst out laughing
He was having SumFunn
Perfect 😂😂😂
I've always found Scandinavia's luxury prisons to be absurd, but it's hard to argue with cold hard data.
Note that this data is extremely skewed, as with most statistics you can lie if you don't take into account the *variables*. The variables here being the *people*. Yes this model works well specifically on *Scandinavians* but it does *NOT* work with other people, we have already begun to see this with migrants from MENA that form gangs in Scandinavia now, they treat the prison period as the hotel that it is and laugh about it, use it to socialize with their fellow criminals and make criminal plans for the future. Almost all of them become repeat offenders. Note that the repeat offending as your stats showed already was a problem for minority of Scandi inmates too, but with the migrants the numbers are reversed *most* of them and almost *all* of the gang-related inmates re-offend.
@tacomajoneesiracist
Always nice to see someone with the ability to realize they were wrong and change their mind!
@tacomajoneesi
@RichardBaran You should try it some time
In Romania, we are doing worse in freedom than in Norwegian prison.
prisons in the US are run by private companies that lobby the government to be "tough on criminals"
it's not about rehabilitation.
it's about making money.
bravo Norway.
the UK should learn from this.
the UK or US should learn about this? you started by talking about the US and then said that "the UK should learn from this". Do you mean both or only one of them?
The USA should learn to not give private companies control of infrastructure of national importance.
@datasecured2340let's use some critical thinking here bro
@datasecured2340 Considering that the K key is rather far from the S key, I would assume that saying "UK" wasn't an accident.
@datasecured2340 possibly they are from the UK, and are saying they want their country's prisons to become more like Norway's.
The point of US prisons is free labor and recidivism
Just a small technicality at 17:00. The phrasing that people have migrated from "elsewhere in the EU" implies that norway is in the EU, which it is not. Both the EU and norway have close ties, though.
12:32 This argument is so good that it makes me feel the prison ladder system needs to be universally adopted. Irrespective of whether the goal is punishment or rehabilitation. If someone is going to be released just tomorrow, it makes no sense to keep them in a high security prison today.
Depending on how this is managed, it can even reduce overall costs (if the cost of better facilities given in any stage is less than the cost of higher security in the previous stage).
Any parent with half a brain cell can relate to it too.
You teach your child responsibility one step at a time. When they act out, you remove privelages, when they prove themselves, you give more freedom. And eventually, you get a stable adult.
Considering how many inmates have problematic pasts and upbringing, it just makes sense that to "fix" it, you treat them the same way.
It should be an ICC crime against humanity to have for-profit prisons, or to implement most of the tactics used in US prison systems.
0:33 Right there you see why the lobyists push for 'tough on crime' and 'private prisons' in the US. Due to the loophole in the 13th Amendment ("except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,"), it is literally legalized slavery, with the token payment making it "Slavery with extra steps."
Private prisons is all about the money, the Real criminals, are the owners..
I feel like there is conflation here. You should be tough on crime, if someone commits a crime they should be sent to jail with no exceptions. How we treat them and rehabilitate them in jail needs to change however. Prisons right now are basically a company with is messed up
You don't need lobbyists to push for policies that the majority of the population supports.
@decator_lol the thing is, it doesn't rehabilitate the prisoners, it often makes them worse, and they'll get free eventually.
@insertname9736 How does this have anything to do with what I said? I never said I agreed with the majority of the population.
I appreciate that the quoted sections are audibly different but it does make it harder to hear. Maybe you could increaase the volume of them to match the rest of the video?
No! They are easy to hear. An increased volume for random parts of the video would hurt my ears.
Right, this. I thought at first my headphones weren't working properly anymore.
I mean if your goal is for the criminals of society to become lawful citizens, you need to give them the ability to lead the lives of lawful citizens under guidance
but how will they enjoy torturing prisoners
@Hhhhtjttj Mercy to a criminal is torture to a victim.
@TheMavenDojoexacerbating a criminal's behavior creates more victims
@TheMavenDojo before conviction, sure. After? Don’t make me laugh - it’s all about your own gratification at that point.
"No the gang banger who killed 5 people over an ounce of weed is totally going to reform from this, it worked for a guy who got arrested for securities fraud and is now legally barred from touching stock or managing finances ever again (He physically can't reoffend)"
Norway's prisons are strange compared TO THE AVERAGE LIVING CONDITIONS OF AN AMERICAN CIVILIAN
Right? In most major cities a minimum wage job full time would not give someone a studio apartment that nice.
Benefits of having a small population and a crap ton of oil
@gustavusadolphus4344 The Norwegian prison system ends up being cheaper than the US system per capita due to lower incarceration rates and lower prison sentences. Even if we don't factor that in, Norway's GDP per capita isn't that much higher than the US. The US is a really wealthy country. They're just not very efficient at spending their money for the sake of their people.
@danimyte3021 this is like a 10-15 years old information, since the migration crisis western europe went rampart
@laszlo4919studies as recent as last year still say the same.
And Europe has been experiencing declining crime rates since 2013
What about the ankle bracelet crowd being sentenced to community service in prisions? They live in prison but get in many ways treated like staff. They get training on coaching other prisioners, they tutor in educational programs, etc... then you raise the proportion of almost normal people in prison while still recognizing low risk prisoners.
Seems like something that is prone to risk, especially without a great inmate to guard ratio
Are you writing this from prison?
People are always learning. If you put them in a studio apartment where they aren't allowed to leave but have access to productive content, they learn to improve themselves. If you put them in an environment where they can only learn to be a criminal to survive, they become criminals.
Thought experiment:
I lock you in a cell 1 hour outside time to play basketball there is a shared toilet and you stay there for 32 months
did your madness increase or decrease even if you didn't commit a crime before?
Yep. Increase. And that isn't even including prison guards who inevitably act like those in the Stanford prison experiment, becoming more cruel and viewing others as lower just because they were handed power over other humans.
I steal your money and use it to buy a murderer a hotel stay. Is this fair or not?
@justinjakeashton its not my money man I am from turkey
@TREmreprogaming Wasting other people's money is a classic among your ilk. Checks out.
@justinjakeashtontaxes aren't stealing its a fractional group payment service to keep your cushy life with public amenities you take for granted functional and the people who run them from starving to death because its not a "for profit" model.
I love this Norwegian method so much. Positive treating methods lead to positive outcomes. I'm from the Netherlands and here to we are for rehabilitation rather than punishment.
The job applications thing is a big deal. I had a friend in mangment at a portable restroom company. He was looking through applications and was dismisding the felons. I asked him what job would be suitable for a person with a felon if they couldn't even get a job cleaning port-a-potties. Plus, they could have lied, but told the truth. He ended up hiring 3 guys who checked they had a felony. 2 of the guys got them from being gangster when they wete very young. Good guys now.
You did a wonderful thing that day, honestly.
Good shit.
@DrSwazz
Indeed
Norwegian prisoners have better rooms than military service members
Yes, but that cost is justified, since it produces productive humans that can re-join society
@theownmages Let's not hate on soldiers. Soldier accommodations are frequently better than the worst prisons, if worse than the nicest. Sometimes they are worse - I think I would prefer even a horrible prison over hiding from shelling in a foxhole I had to dig myself over the same duration. The differences might have more to do with economics - a prisoner treated more like a person costs society less than to do otherwise. A soldier with better accommodations beyond some threshold might not be sufficiently more effective at their job.
Finally, my understanding is that soldiers are much more likely to become re-join society successfully than prisoners - I'd be very surprised to learn that 25% of all soldiers end up going to prison (comparing the lowest recidivism rates), and would expect various military organizations to make significant changes were that so. Instead, military service members also often learn valuable skills during their time and are quite employable. I have no complaints about the work ethic of the various known former military service members I have worked with and would be happy to work with more (one had also been in jail or prison or something at one point; that is the only one I have any complaints about the personality of). I have only worked with one known returned felon (the soldier friend might have been one too, or a misdemeanor or something?) and I found him somewhat beaten down, working phone support despite having two masters degrees from before. I think society would have benefited from giving him a better chance after his return as he was prevented from fully applying his intelligence and education to relevant problems.
@theownmages damn didn't have to do them like that
@theownmages🥹
they have a better life than me
You must be this tall to ride. 2:52
Not sure about that one champ
Bro only sees the positives in life🙏🏻😭
17:50 Hahaha the super super super inconspicuous advertisement of the shirt, that made me laugh out loud hahahha
Hi, norwegian here.
I just want to point out that it's not strappen, but trappen.
Fengsel = Prison
Trapp = Staircase
fengsel + s + trapp + en
= fengselstrappen
That s is not part of the word trapp.
It is not turning trapp into strapp.
It’s just a connector between the two nouns.
ja, det høres rart ut når han sier trappen på den måten der (selv om aksenten er kanskje også litt uvant), men han var flink da som inkluderte de norske begrepene også.
men fint at du påpeker det
"Fængselstrappen" = prison's stairs
"Fængsels" = prison's
"Trappen" = stairs
No such thing as "strappen" ;)
7:30 So what you're saying is instead of prison wardens, every prisoner gets a Golden Retriever...
Norwegian prison is getting comforted by Superman and American prison is getting confronted by Zack Snyder's Henry Cavil
America's prisons allow for criminals to become "better" criminals. We've known this forever. It won't change though because of money. Many prisons in America, even minors, are literally for profit prisons!
With the way they're run, capital punishment is almost merciful
All prisons are for profit prisons. No one is volunteering to run these places, are they? No, everyone that works at a prison is getting paid to do so. All prisons are for profit prisons
@trevors6379 A for-profit (or private) prison in the United States is
a correctional facility operated by a third-party, for-profit corporation rather than a government agency, contracted to house inmates on behalf of federal or state governments. These companies, such as CoreCivic and GEO Group, are paid a daily or monthly rate per inmate to manage facilities, often focusing on cost-cutting to generate profit.
You are misinformed Sir.
@trevors6379 Was gonna leave this alone, but I have to say, this type of comment is indicitive of the ignorance of the people of America. Thinking a gov't or non-profit is the same as a for profit organization because the workers get paid for their work is unbelievably stupid. I'm sorry, it just is really dumb thing to think and then type something so idiotic.
The Prison industrial complex and police unions are a major part in this medievalist paradigm in America. Besides money however, another major factor is the culture that's pervasive, especially among Republicans, that loves seeing inmates suffer
It's almost like treating people with dignity and respect instead of like animal savages (even when they might be acting like animal savages right now) leads to better outcomes.
This idea is considered radical in America.
only 3k people vs 1.2mil
@ChatJPB Because it doesn't work, ignoring human biodiversity results in Minnesota having Norway demographics in the 90s to the endless troubles it has now.
We've seen the "dignity" in blue cities, people on the streets, and a revolving door of just letting them out until they do something unforgivable.
People can pretend.
Why not both? Prisons that rehabilitate for your low and mid-level crimes, but harsh prisons and executions for your true monsters. It doesn't have to be either/or.
because people in humaine society are, well, humaine, they don't want execution and even besides a slim chance of executing falsely accused, what about people carrying out executions, it's not something a normal person should experience
i won't feel bad for murders when they treated like animals on a condition that they won't leave the prison, but guards who treat they like that will experience treating other people, even if worst of us, like animals and it will make them worse and they will be somebody's neighbors and family members
The scariest thing that most of us tend to forget, it that there isn't such a thing as a monster in real life
@musicfriendly12 There are monsters and there is evil. Cancer is a monster of a disease.
Some people truly act as cancer on society. The issue is determining who those people are.
Evil is cancer not the absence of good.
Some people would just be selfish and harmful to others no matter the morality system implemented by that society.
@grdchldif there's even a shadow of a doubt then obviously no one should be executed. But in the case of the man at the end of this video, he admitted his crimes without remorse, there is no doubt, so why should he be allowed to continue infecting the world?
@musicfriendly12there absolutely are monsters. Anyone who knowingly murders 77 people is indeed a monster.
I don't care how genius it is, my taxpayer money shouldn't be going towards making life comfortable for criminals.
I want my taxpayer money to go towards a variety of other more important things that I could list.
Imagine treating people like animals, and calling that normal. Then treating people normally is luxury.
Have you been to prison? I have, for one year, in America no less. Trust me, if you had the opportunity to live amongst & mingle with my esteemed colleagues for just one weekend, you’d be petitioning your congressman to pass harsher/longer incarceration terms ….
@davemccage7918 I have, and every single one of those dudes were going to go out and do the same shit. They had nothing else to do. No work, no home, no way to make. The system is broken bro
Worst yet, is that if either extreme happened (all people stayed in prison forever, or every person that came out stayed ut forever), the system would break.
Humans are animals. Now try to justify locking animals in cages.
criminals
I'd like to address the 'cost' argument. You can't just address the cost of the prison itself, but also the cost of lost tax revenue from someone being IN the prison, which when combined with the liklihood of someone being in prison and how long they're there, makes the upfront cost a lot better.
10:40 This is absolutely correct, which too many people seem to not grasp, even in Norway: the limitation of freedom IS the punishment. I hope US develops their moral philosophy.
The us prison system is so backwards in many ways that its worse than in Russia. No joke, Russian prisoners have more strongly protected family rights than American prisoners.
Oh we're developing our moral philosophy alright, just not in a constructive way...
The system in America is designed to create criminals, not rehabilitate them. We need Norway's system.
The American prison system is also made to keep people in. Private prisons make so much money. American prisons also have tvs, Xbox’s, and other luxuries depending on the prison. I know people who had tvs in their cell. The real problem are police and private prisons
Yeah creating a profit incentive to keep people in jail is such a stupid idea.
So what's the lowest minimum crime one would need to commit in Norway to get sent to one of those prison cells? Asking for a friend whose apartment looks worse than those cells and costs $2500 a month.
Invade Norway get a vacation. . .
Enter a bank pretending that you have a grenade but hold an avocado instead lmao
I live in far worse conditions than these norwegians in prison. and more than half of the world live way worse than me
Thank you for sharing this video on our book. Appreciate it!
"High-trust society" Let's keep Norway that way.
13:44 "coming soon to a dank river valley near you"
peak reference
✨ sociiiiietyyyyyy ✨
@ondras-oj5xqABSOLUTE peak
I feel like these 3D-printed props are such a good addition to the channel. Especially liked them in the episode about housing, but they tie in here nicely as well.
22:24 Must've been the wind
@20:55 exactly why it would never work in the U.S.
Love the 3D printed props !
its mind boggling how empathy literally works to solve so many issues and yet people are too joyful in just being evil to people
They wish that the criminals had empathy then show none themselves.
Dont commit crimes and you wont get thrown in a harsh place! Simple thought!
Lol, ok. When someone rpes then slits your partner's or mom's throat in front you, you'll be glad to know that they get treated nicely in their punishment. Maybe include that thought of comfort at the eulogy.
@VizimaMerchant "guys, you dont understand, we need to ensure drug crime remains high and recitivism remains large because...we get to punish people for our own pleasure!"
you're a moron
Something very important is: fixing the prison system isn't a golden bullet itself. A lot of other aspects need to be fixed too.
For example: these types of prisons could increase the criminality rate, because in prison a lot of people would have at least a "house" to live, and a bed to sleep...
That's where social security comes in. This video goes on that as well.
@saiv46taps board which says: “Poverty Causes Crime”
Rent's getting pretty tight... US-->Norway-->Steal something-->NO RENT :D
I don't want Breyvik to suffer, I simply want him gone. The Death Penalty is not inhumane.
In the US, cruelty is the goal, not rehabilitation, not reform, not even lowering the crime rate. The US is too sadistic to even consider these things.
Sadistic? Were criminals kind to their victims?
@walter_lesaulnier you've helped me to make my point
I agree cruelty is the goal, but I don't see that you can call it sadism - to do so is to imply that it is illegitimate to punish wrongdoing, or taking it to its logical conclusion, that there is no right or wrong and all notions of justice must be discarded.
@MichaelWilde-u2d So, when someone molests a child and gets sent to prison, they should be made comfortable and coddled? Perhaps you could deliver milk and cookies to them every morning on a velvet pillow?
@walter_lesaulnier No, they should be reformed if possible. Just treating them like animals has insured for hundreds of years that they eventually get out and reoffend. Hundreds of years of statistics prove that punishment alone has not cut down on our crime rate. I'd rather they be made safe to be in our society instead of being made more dangerous. Now the question to you is: 'So, when someone is unable to pay a speeding ticket, should we torture them?'
Unfortunately in the US there are four types of incarceration, jails at county level, state prison, federal prison, and federal detention. All with different sources of monetary budgets, different accountability types, different policies, different operational conditions.
Norway corrections has one source for funding, one source for accountability and one operational guide lines. Plus they have 500 employees to 300 inmates at one facility. At the institution I work at we have 500 employees to 1,800 inmates. The federal standard is 50 inmates to one security officer. Not many facilities can come close to this standard.
Add to that different laws, funding and levels of privatization for each of those 4 types varying wildly from state to state. But the average is still bad and the outliers borderlining on atrocities
1st time i saw norwegian prison, i got angry, because it was way nicer then my dorm room that i paid 300€ a month for. While those prisoners also have free uni lmao
What? Dehumanizing and abusing people doesnt help them? Weird.
Its not like that isnt being done to free people either.
@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 iam well aware. The way homeless people are treated for one of many examples is quite disgusting.
Well you see, like airlines making smaller and smaller seats, private American prisons need to cram as many inmates in as possible to get more profit.
Thank you for actually providing your sources. Too few channels, even the "good" ones, do so.
Black people only make up 0.03% of Norwegian citizens. All the other statistics he cited are irrelevant if you ignore that.
@davemccage7918 That statistic isn’t accurate, but even if it were, it wouldn’t explain the point of the video. Norway had much higher recidivism in the 1980s and reduced it after reforming its prison system in the 1990s. The population didn’t suddenly change in that period, instead, the policy did. That’s why researchers usually focus on prison design, sentencing, and reintegration support when comparing recidivism across countries.
@Tahoza Singapore faced the even worse conditions with higher crime rates and recidivism but chose to go the opposite route and have longer sentences with prisons even worse often sleeping on straw mats. Recidivism is even lower than Norway. Singapore has more per capita criminals than Norway in prison but they also have a significantly lower crime rate. The US has tried and still is trying rehabilitation models at some prisons with mixed results but both Norway and Singapore are not like the USA in size or composition of peoples so either model will fail unless the communities are changed.
@davemccage7918 get a life, loser
@spectacles-dmWhat? Black people commit more crimes it’s just a fact. Areas with less black people have less prison inmates. We can debate on the numerous reasons why that is, but just ignoring the fact that black people have a problem with criminal behavior isn’t helping anyone, especially black people.
"To prove this, I recorded this entire video in a luxury prison in Norway!"
Yo, Norwegian here.
This whole video I was sitting here wondering what "Strappen" meant, until I realized that you incorrectly deconstructed the word "Fengselstrappen".
You may know that, in Norwegian, like many other Germanic languages, we can chain together words to indicate that they're one "concept". Let me break down what you did wrong:
The word "Fengselsstraffen" is made up of "Fengsel" (jail/prison) and "Straff" (punishment). When combining these words you add the possessive particle "s" after "fengsel" to indicate that the following word is something possessed by/serving the previous word. So, we get "fengselsstraff". Then you would add the correct tense for your use case. Here the correct one is "en" because it's the definite single or however you'd translate that to English.
So, when you change word "Fengselsstraffen" to "Fengselstrappen"(made up of "fengsel"(jail/prison) and "trapp"(staircase)) the "s" particle is still owned by "fengsel", not "trapp".
I can see how you made the mistake, but it getting so far in the script that you 3d-printed a model with it on and included it in the final script is just kind of funny to me.
Keep up the otherwise good work!
Also, a note on the solitary confinement and suicide part:
I've visited Sem fengsel with my school once, and i know a couple of people who worked for Kriminellomsorgen. Because we have it so nice here in Norway, a lot of the people who end up doing bad stuff are mostly just mentally ill people who slipped past the system. These are people who have lived most of their lives seemingly normally, but whom have had an underlying condition their whole lives. These are people who are more prone to outbursts or psychotic behavior, but have just never gotten help. I believe this is also a part of why the suicide rate is so high. They end up having to place these people in solitary confinement to prevent them from hurting themselves, just because they don't have the proper resources to handle cases like these.
On the other side of the spectrum are people who grew up financially challenged, and/or discriminated against. I once talked to the former leader of Oslo Young Bloods when he was in jail. He was a pretty nice guy just chatting to him. He had obviously seen quite a lot in his life. He never planned to get into crime, but things just spiraled out of control. The gang started as a way to defend themselves from neo-nazis in Oslo and helping the local community, but then they started lending out money. Then they had to collect the money from people who didn't pay up. Then they started hooking people up. Then they started selling drugs. Then they ordered hits... and so on. Products of circumstance.
Nobody cares. Also, he explained the breakdown of the word. You mustn't have been paying attention.
@ChatJPB Don’t be an asshole, he was clearly trying to help. Learn how to read a room.
Clearli his room is lacking i reading material.....
@Radishals It's funny and ironic how he made such a big deal and wrote a whole paragraph on it ending with "getting so far in the script that you 3d-printed a model with it on and included it in the final script is just kind of funny to me." when he was the one that missed that it wasn't Spectacles "mistake" but a purposeful change made by the prison officers as referenced specifically 10:55.
Learing center maybe?
I really like how you make the case for Norway's system, but thoughtfully acknowledge that simply copy and pasting the system really anywhere else, let alone the US, would not have the same affect. As you say, several parts of Norway's system would make a huge difference in the US, but what Norway's society want's to rehabilitate the prisoners. Without that, the system is missing a crucial piece.
I know several people who would really like this video. Thank you!
Thanks as always for tuning in, Blade
@spectacles-dm of course! You guys quickly became one of my favorite RUclips channels after I discovered you!
0:20 actually you are and have been allowed to own a TV in American prison cells, at least in California. They even used to let you have Xboxes. As long as you are level 3 or below, which is a good portion of prisoners. Last year they began lending every inmate a very restricted, very cheap iPad. The inmates can listen to music, watch movies, and play games on them as long as they're paying a monthly subscription which many inmates can afford with the money from their jobs. You're also allowed to be outside pretty much all day if you want to. The main thing limiting you is if the COs feel like letting you out that day or not.
Amenity restrictions are pretty much only for high risk (e.g. guys who really shouldn't be in gen pop to begin with or have shoe laces). He does these little sneaky things of comparing max sec with min sec norwegian stuff all throughout the video because this is just straight up propaganda.
The whole recidivism thing is him comparing financial crimes and kids selling pot/acid over a 2 year parole period vs 5 years that extends after parole for people in for assault with a deadly weapon.
Yeah but you usually dont have tv
"They work, not just on Norwegians, but on humans" was pretty unintentionally funny
19:12
in the article:
"saying he couldn't last much longer under such harsh conditions"
Meanwhile in El Salvador...
El Salvador prisons are actually pretty nice compared to much of the non-developed countries because they are newly built
Peoples desire to have criminals suffer brutally is far stronger than peoples desire to have an irrefutably better, cheaper, more effective prison system. In other words people would rather live in worse conditions knowing that evil criminals are suffering than live in nicer conditions knowing evil criminals aren't suffering. Norway displays immense maturity and intelligence in being able to overcome those dark powerful primal urges in my opinion. It's almost like they're a few centuries ahead of the rest of the world.
people couldnt care less, its just that all those changes need to be *implemented* and "liberal" "commie" prissons arent even on a todo list for usgov right now
I don't think wanting crimials to suffer is a primal urge, just a societal thing. As a German, I have never had that desire, and it always seems weird to me hearing your judges pulling out phrases like 'May your soul rot in hell'. That's just not a nice thing to say to anyone.
Also, the first sentence of our constitution is "The dignity of every human is inviolable."
I would love for other countries to share this value
People would rather satiate their bloodlust than be safe.
It's not all that primal an urge though, revenge is an acquired habit, often a result of prolonged extreme feelings of powerlessness.
Sweden shares a similar approach to prisons. In 2006, an officer forgot to lock up a unit one night. Six prisoners realised and went of a spree of fun. They baked brownies, watched a film and made a blanket fort. Then they cleaned up the kitchen and went to bed. The prisoners were not punished. It was deemed they had done no harm. The officers had their pay docked for failing to carry out their duties.
1:53 no thats actually correct
You forgot to mention that in Norway they put a mime into every prisoners cell, which is part of the success.
CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT!!!
@WromWrom OH MY GOD! THERE'S ABS ON MY FACE! lol :3))
The mime makes them fun knife and gun balloon shapes.
A prison is an academy for crime - A. H.
Albert Heinstein?
Being a criminal in Norway sounds good
In other countries American style prisons would be called labour camps.
>person does bad thing
> punch person in gut and scream at them
>person does not have less incentive to do bad thing
>person does bad thing
>get them help so that they no longer desire/need to do bad thing
>they have less incentive to do bad thing
Maybe I should be a fucking psych major because this shit is easy
Yeah, next time you see a thief take him home with you. Next time you see a murderer have family holidays with him. God you re a Darwin award waiting to happen.
If you want to be stupid, only put your skin in the game, not the whole society's.
Its almost as simple as differentiating between man and women
Oh wait..
@indigo7898😂😂😂
I think it's about being pragmatic. Most prisoners aren't evil and can be rehabilitated but the rare monsters must face the music
I dont get rehabilitation. If you are willing to defy society and be arrested why would you not rezist its obvious brainwashing attempts?
No its about free labor under hidden slavery. If the US were smart would they give the psychos the chair and the common thief a job.
This.
They're better than most of the bedsits I've lived in
It's certainly better than starving on the street!
I believe in a mix of "soft/nice" prisons and super harsh prisons.
For most first-time offenders, crimes that did not majorly injure or kill anyone, prisons should at least attempt to get them back into society. However, for repeat offenders or major crimes. I believe in a very harsh punishment. I would love to see how the American, Norwegian, and something like Saudi, Chinese, or El Salvador prisons compare to really get a full look into the pros and cons of each.
However the biggest part of the issue is part of societal norms. Nordic countries only function the way they do because of the high trust in society. I did my exchange in Denmark, and it is very clear how this high trust is absolutely everywhere. My biggest issue with it, is that if enough people stop the "high trust culture", I believe that it would come crashing down. Take for example what is currently going on in Sweden.
You didn't watch the video at all huh? Norway had a very low trust society before they reformed their penal system.
I think difficulty with implementing this elsewhere is that the quality of life in a prison shouldn't be higher than that of the poorest citizens. I feel frustrated at its system because I know that the treatment these prisoners get is better than many hard working honest people. Before we make prisons humane, we have to make society and regular life be so as well. (of course, Norway I believe and hope has reached that point)
The quality of life you get in those prisons is offset by the fact you are still confined there until your sentence expires.
I’m really tired of people underestimating just how much confinement and a lack of freedom can affect your well being. The common practice of putting them in poor conditions on top of that has me surprised more people don’t snap from it.
@calbar01
It doesn't matter how luxurious my prison is, my freedom is invaluable.
Lol... you send American. People should suffer worse than me. That is you... that is what you sound like.
🙄You should be able to walk & chew bubblegum. There's NO reason why the wealthiest nation on the planet CAN'T improve the lives of average citizens AND bring dignified humanity to the correctional system...
@calbar01 we've all been in quarantine during covid bud! Losing the freedom of movement isn't that big of a deal to many people
High incarceration rates isn't a bug in the U.S.; It's a feature. Corporations make better profits when they only need to pay people $1 an hour.