I Just Don't Care About Foreshots . . . .
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2021
- To be honest "I don't care" is a little bit of an overstatement. I really do care about making great cuts. Its more that I think the idea of being very particular about the foreshots themselves is a bit of a moot point.
If you make an effort to make really great cuts based on what tastes good you are going to be leaving so many "heads" behind that the foreshots are somewhat irrelevant.
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Хобби
"Worrying about a splinter on your hand that's already been cut off."
-Jesse 2021
Part of the issue is about "volume" when people start distilling they are surprised at how little product is actually produced from large quantities of mash / wash and then they start compromising on what cuts to keep for the sake of volume. There is also a lot of home distillers that literally make no cuts at all and peddle the end product as some old time gift of the gods instead of fire lighter fluid it usually is.
In'at the truth
Boy. Telling it like it is. I made that mistake my first run. Blended what I thought tasted good. I should have known better than to pour that last pint in with too much tails but I was blinded by my own greed. Talk about turning crap into shit. Too much heads as well. Tasted like the cheapest tequila with ass mixed together. Lesson learned
@@timg2776 that's what they make lemon and salt for. LOL
@@timg2776 Oil-ish ass to boot. Been there. Done that. Did everything to convince myself the flavour was , " ok".
This is true they want the “flavor” which is just horribleness and hangovers and more volume. I think the volume soooo much.
I'm a new distiller and I learned very quickly the separation of foreshots to heads really doesn't matter. Give or take and in the long run, I'm more concerned with the transition to hearts.
When you start distilling, it's helpful to think about things in a linear, staged way. Taking absoloute measures of foreshots and heads is almost a safety net when you have no experience on what to look for. As you progress in the craft though, you become more aware of what to look for and make your cuts in a far more intuitive way that ultimately yields better quality (not volume). This is an exciting and inspiring journey and most of us learn by doing, hence Jessie's term of 'chasing the craft'.
Hi Jesse, thanks for your amazing videos. I just want to let you know that the Tech Ingredients channel gave a shout out to you and your channel, especially concerning blending. I suppose that's a real compliment to what you're doing. Keep up the good work.
As to the foreshots and heads I think you're right on the money: the first amount of heads will still contain a quantifiable bit of methyl alcohol and I don't want to drink any of it.
Glad you here for us newbies always look forward to your next video
I found that since I started some of my own distilling I actually drink much less alcohol than I used to, however my use of cleaning/disinfecting has gone up quite a bit, so these days I take a generous amount of foreshot often going way into the heads, just because it is a useful cleaning product. The rest I just separate out by taste, so yeah pretty much the same as Jesse does.
Heh. For most of the last year almost all of my output went to sanitizer.
Don't forget how much of those heads contain ethanol that can be compressed and recollected by tossing feints into your next stripping run
@@theworldisastage1984 To be honest, I get enjoyment out of fermenting and distallation, I've got so much of the stuff that I really don't need to be frugal.
That’s some great info, I also don’t stress about foreshots, I collect both together as well. I don’t ever put heads back into the next run, just tails typically for my sour mashes.
I love your way of explaining respectfulness in the comments 🙂 The world needs more people like you
Thankyou. I have been on the same page for years on this. And I would like to thankyou for your RUclips channel. It has helped me to rethink on some of experiments and encourage me that a bad thing is something learnt.
I learnt to distill from my father in-law in Ukraine, he gave me a book in Russian about it. I have been subscribed to your channel for ages and I now have 2 stills I bought and one I am makeing from a beer barrel, I'm even learning to TIG weld so I can make it properly. I intend to start making stills for sale eventually. I really just wanted to say thank you.
That sounds great! Good luck!
Are there laws in Ukraine/Russia about distilling?
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 no, it's legal. All my friends over there distill too.
Thank you for this video. It has reduced a shit ton of stress ahead of getting my first still. That was seriously good info. I love this Channel. I am learning a lot from you thanks again.
Thanks for this, I have been making the mistake of only taking out the forshots and not making good cuts on the heads and hearts,
Old-style Slivovitz like my grandpa used to drink used most of the heads and tails. The stuff was nasty, but that's what they drank back on the shtetl. You or I would take a sip and ... feint.
Yeah, I'm guessing their main concern was not dying or going blind... rather than good flavor.
Been slowly looking at getting into distilling, been home brewing mead for about 2 years. This is the best description that I have seen yet... Thank you
Hey Jesse. First ever comment. New distiller here in England. I agree 100%. For the home distiller this makes so much sense. Keep up the good work bro. BTW, you're the reason I got into this and thanks to your personable way it's what gives me the inspiration to keep plugging away! Thank you brother.
Nice to see a fellow Englishman getting into distillation! I've been thinking for a while of getting into distillation; how've you found dealing with HMRC, or will that come at a later date?
@@LeavinMyTown I've only ever homebrewed which is legal, but having spent a few years reading the forums online, as well as asking the odd staff member from local gin distilleries for advice, the common wisdom seem to be that you just don't. You don't ask the cops or government agencies if there's a way for you to do things above board because unfortunately that doesn't exist and you will just alert them to the fact you're considering doing it. You don't grow weed in your attic, you don't get nicked for speeding, you don't get charged with assault after punching someone during a night out on the lash, and you don't make videos on youtube saying "Hi I'm Lewis Cooper from Mansfield and here's a video of me distilling alcohol in my garage". You build or buy your equipment, distill discretely within the privacy of your own home, don't go bragging about it, selling it, or giving it away to anyone but your closest and most trustworthy friends. You don't give the cops any reason to suspect you're doing anything wrong and they'll have no reason to check you out. From anecdotal reports on forums, granted you're not distributing your illicit distillates, cops don't really care about discrete operations, but they'll do things by the book to shut you down if you're making it obvious that you're doing it. Said anecdotal reports mention this includes the confiscation of all of your equipment (that might include, collaterally, brewing equipment indirectly but implicitly related to your distilling), and maybe a fine. You probably won't go to court as a first time offender, but the combined loss of your equipment and fine make it stupidly expensive to get caught.
Btw. Taxation is theft.
I think with my small still with a 10% abv wash, the recommended amount to classify as foreshots would be 25ml. So 50ml would definitely cover it. So I take 100ml. It goes into a jar with a skull and crossbones label on it. The heads and tails go into a feints jug and when I have enough I run 'em again. And still take the 100ml for foreshots.
Third attempt at making gin.
Used Alcotec Turbo with liquid carbon in 25 litres with 8 kg on cheap sugar.
Killed it and cleared it with alcotec. 20% yield.
Distilled it using my home made pot still. 4 litres at a time
Using the first cup off for cleaning stoped at 20% . Put the hearts in Demi jars.
Watered down to 40% and dripped it through boiled carbon in a upside down plastic bottle with loose cap.
Distilled again discarding half a cup each time.
Watered down to 55%.
Just added a stir spirits flavour for now.
Tastes great.
Made some second rate cheap wine so making brandy now.
Got some oak now so cooking chop sticks next. 220 240 260 Degs C .
This is a great program to watch.
Great, simple way to put it that makes perfect sense. Always love the videos.
I had never thought of it like that! Thank you!
Love the interview you did with little miss brewbird. She’s a lovely lassy
Fantastic video. And so true I’ve been trying to tell people this for years.
Nice one, Brother. 10 litre wash at 10% ABV. I take off 75mills for the fire lighters, another 80 mills after that, then my nose and tongue does the rest. Usually end up with 600 mills usable before the wet cardboard starts.
I agree with your thesis, Jesse. If you collect heads for the feints jar, throw away some of the fores, whatever you are happy with. Collect heads until your ABV starts to drop, then taste/smell until you can no longer smell nail polish remover. Then collect hearts until you drips start to smell a little janky. Collect tails until you are tired or you are just distilling water. Save heads and tails in the feints jar. The above is advice for a pot still only. If you don’t save your feints, make a hearts cut and a tails cut, save the hearts and chuck the rest or use it for weed killer. Bob’s your Uncle.
I let it run until it smells good but have also gotten a pretty good idea of when that will happen based on temperature.
I have never taken out heads. I always took out foreshots, (to get rid of the Methanol) (25 ml from a 20 litre sugar wash), then kept everything after that except for the lower wines. Is this wrong for vodka ?
im wondering if I should be worrying about the speed of my run or messing with the temp while the wash boils... for example can i just run my 240v element full blast and it will boil when it boils? and run how it runs no matter what or should i have temp control to dial it back if my vapor temp is rising too fast?
Nah bro you are spot on
My journey to distilling has been vastly improved by your videos and advice.
Keep up the awesome videos
I use an 8 gallon pot still and 3 5 gallon fermenters. I do an individual stripping run for each fermenter and don’t take any cuts. Then I mix them all together dilute with distilled water to 40% abv and distill again, then take the first quart and use it for firing up my smoker and I keep everything until the distillate starts to drastically drop in abv. When the abv starts to drop it comes down fast and that is pretty much your tails so I just keep it simple that way and it makes a decent product.
Upgrade. It's so worth it.
The effort and time, with a 26 gallon still and 4" column is worth every penny
@@theworldisastage1984 I want to
@@brandongreene9615 my 26 gallon boiler was $479 from moonshine distillers out of winter park co
My 4" column, perforated plates, all set up with dephlegmator and shotgun condenser was $550 from oak stills.
Sold the old set for $400, after 4 years of use I felt that was good.
Under $700 upgrade price
@@theworldisastage1984 if you don’t mind me asking, what size is your arm/pipe that connects your column to your condenser? Thanks
I always save my foreshots, great to start charcoal for the grill!
Makes perfect sense, thank you!!
You've helped me a ton, Jesse! I would say this video checks important box #1: foreshots are dangerous (unless used for something other than drinking, which can then be useful). Box #2: heads are not good tasting so you don't want them in your final product, so who cares about the line between foreshots and heads (the whole point of your video). The only polite critique I'd offer, is that a lot of new distillers find you at the very beginning of their journey into this hobby, and it's impossible to know which of your awesome videos they'll find first. So perhaps a little more emphasis on the need to chuck the methanol for the newbies, rather than speaking strictly to the vast majority of us who have been climbing the at home distilling mountain of information for years now would be appropriate.
Question; if I am only interested in producing a very high ABF, can I use/ferment sugar beets? Not red beets, but sugar beets?
What do I need to know?
Ha
To start off I have been distilling for right at 1 year . I have been having the problem when to start my cuts for my hearts .
I have found for my corn mash to get what I like brown sugar helps to get the taste I like . But I still am not getting my cuts right for my hearts .
So Think You for this video . I am using a mixture of your USJMC hope that I got that right . I start off with 10 pounds of corn and simmer for 1 hour . After I turn my starches to sugar -- I add my brown sugar and Tomato Paste .
So I will pay more attention to my run after I do my 4 shots and pay more attention to taste and smell .
Think You again .
Agree. I don’t even worry about foreshots, I’ll take a 200ml or so hit every 50L mash because it’s nasty volatiles anyway. I rather quality over hellwater quantity any day.
I do the same or a bit more. I'm happy to have solvent or lawnmower fuel.on a 50L batch it isn't a worry, I think people with tiny stills /batch sizes are the ones more concerned
@@rwhitenz What they do not realize is the volume removed as foreshot is relative to volume of mash. You need only to remove 20 ml from a 5 L batch to equal to 200ml per 50 L mash. If you use it as a fuel or a non-consumable solvent, it is not a wasted product anyways.
Hi Jesse, Just bought a homemade pot still to go with my old reflux. I see you insulate the column of your pot still. What product are you using? I live in New Zealand.
Hi mate, really love your vids. I have a few questions... I know that acetone and methanol concentrations are higher in the foreshot. However, what is in the heads that make them taste like arse? Also, can you do a vid discussing the issue with non ptfe gaskets? I know it's controversial, but I think you could do a wicked balanced vid on the subject!
My rule of thumb... 10gal 10% charge, take first 8oz as fores and heads, then start sensory checks to make cut to hearts... seems to work well for me. some batches, the hearts start right away while other grains tend to have more heads..
So what about 13.5 gallon still how much total once it starts running is what I need to know
@@thebigdogangel6222 4oz per 5 gal. I'd hold 11oz for 13.5gal and start testing
does anyone think aging spirits with mesquite wood is a good or bad idea? just curious, i've done a bit of research but i'd like to hear a first hand experience if anyone has ever tried it
I am glad I watched this video because, in our group we're trying to learn exactly what "Shooting the Thumper," is and how to do it. Do we strip the heads and use them for another time, or place in the thumper when we're shooting and strip the hearts while were shooting? Any help to clarify exactly how to shoot the thumper would be an enormous help.
Hello Jesse, my name's Mark and I'm alcoholic
In this video, are we talking about spirit run or striping run?
I've only been discarding methanol, and drinking the rest, after a second run. I thought doing a second run means I don't have to take cuts, is it worth it? How much better does it taste for how much extra time it takes? I usually kick off a 60L-65L wash, 'discard' 120mls and sit on the couch until it's finished
Would you recommend I try cuts on the second run? (I've been doing it this way for a yr, Birdwatches4.0 and no filter)
I agree with you on this matter, historically what people have added to alcohol to increase volume and profits has scared people from understanding the whole chemical process of distillation. Then you have every new distilling RUclips channel adding to the minor confusion from lack of experience/research and sounding like some form of expert. This just confuses new distillers all the more, glad of your efforts on trying to keep the info real and your talking with others to learn and describe this art.
So...I have a still spirits air still. Tried making some stuff. I only have about 1 cup of alcohol, which actually doesn't taste all that bad (really corn heavy). It's only 55%, 110 proof...how do you make these kinds of cuts on small amounts (1-3) cups? Do you even have to with mid-range ABV in such a small amount? It's currently just sitting in a jar for the last week because I don't want to drink something that might kill me. Any thoughts?
Well, I agree that the the recommended volume for the foreshots that I've seen mentioned in various sources is somewhat arbitrary, that is not to say that the concept of removing them is irrelevant. So in conventional distilling where one is throwing away the foreshots and the stuff left in the boiler, keeping the heads and tails for redistillation, and the hearts is the keeper going into the final product. If you model the process, the undesirable stuff (methanol, ethyl acetate, acetone, hexyl alcohol) will build up over time (as they are recyled into the next batch) if there is no purge stream and that is what the intention of the foreshots disposal and boiler residue disposal is all about. So, without a lengthy differential equation treatment here, it is necessary to purge both the still bottoms and the foreshots. What the the precise amount of these should be, will depend largely on what kind of products your yeast have churned out in your fermenter. So I think that over the years, certain rules-of-thumb (100 mL foreshots for 5 gallon batch of wash) have been developed to that are reasonably conservative.
If you wanted to treat this a little more precisely, you could say that if you are fermenting a pectin rich mash (wine, cider) you should use larger volumes for the foreshots, whereas if you are using a sugar wash, you could almost forego the foreshots, I think, whereas we are not measuring the amount of undesirable organics within the distillate, it's probably safe to stick with the conventional volumes for the foreshots, with the understanding that we (in our ignorance of what is present in the distillate) are maintaining a confortable margin of safety.
PS: I really enjoy your channel; please keep up the good work!
Thank you sir.i feel the same and appreciate...the craft.
I fully agree with one exception if I am making apple or pear brandy the fore shot is just nasty on those because of the pectin I think but in my experience the faints on the 2nd run adds a bad taste all thru the hearts if I don't toss off the forshots from the heads maybe if using a column still would not be a problem
Add a bit of food dye to your foreshot collection.
Genius!
Or throw it in a fuel can.
Best color to mark fores as poison? Green? Blue? I would say not yellow, orange, brown...
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 only blue because of meths
After watching the whole of your video I just wanted to add something, not everyone does cuts after the foreshots, some people just want to catch as much liquid as possible. Just like to add this as when someone I was talking too told me they didn't know what heads hearts and tails was. They did know about foreshots though.
I kind of agree with you, & kinda don’t as I’m not someone who uses jars to make cuts.
In the case of a fruit wash/mash, I take more fore shots, than in a sugar or grain wash/mash. Then I let it cook til it the tails are yuck & stop. That’s because I’m lazy.
But....you have a good point. It’s not a cliff....it’s a sliding scale.
TOTALLY AGREE! Just take off a reasonable amount for foreshots and call it a day. Really is not a big deal as long as you're not drinking the stuff!
Have you thought about using an ultrasound bath for forced aging? I watched a video on it a while back. What do you think?
I love this channel. I usually watch these instructional RUclips videos with every intention of doing the thing, but never quite get round to it, making me feel lazy and a little guilty. With this one if I did do it, I’d be breaking the law, so it’s a great excuse just to watch it to enjoy it, guilt free. Cheers mate :)
Golly, you'd be forced to drink the evidence.
I drink the heads all the time. Love it. I let more of the foreshot out because I do drink the heads.
heads = 10000%" concentrated taste of what you distilling... the best
I agree, it's the tails that can be nasty, heads has the flavour for me
People drinks foreshots and heads in beer everyday
@@johnm.515 That's not quite the same thing. When distilling, you are concentrating the alcohol. The first bits that come out thru that process is toxic. It contains acetone and methanol. With beer and wine, you are going thru a fermentation process that produces alcohol that is not as refined. It's safer to consume at that state.
Here is a question about heads. I have never heard of this. It sounds strange BUT. I read an article from a old hand who has been distilling for years. He stated that he returns his heads to a slow cooker and raises the temperature to the point where Alcohol just starts to boil off and lets the higher nasty Alcohols drift away leaving the good spirit behind as the higher nasty Alcohols leave first. No reintroducing bad stuff into your next run. This sounds plausible to me. I understand for the need for good ventilation during the process, get that, but is this done, is this a process. As a newbie I have not heard about this, Can the old hands wade in PLEASE. I have not done this so I do not know if it works or even if this is even a thing to do.
Love it, you cut to the heart. And taste, touch, smell.
Congrats on 150K
And 201 videos! There is a lot of work there 😊
@@expattyNZ true that, he deserves every SUB...
Jesse, I agree 100% senses are key to cuts.
With regards to "cuts sight". Show a bead test to show the difference in Goose Eye.
Cheers Jesse!
Yep 😁 understand the concept and accept the fact that still need to do the right thing about foreshots.
It's explained very well.
I'm my experience to be honest it was scary because of the methanol.
I didn't give up and I looked deeper in to this and now I'm very comfortable in doing and making spirits for my self.
Always better take more foreshots then less that's my advice.
Is there a way to figure out the potential methanol concentration from any given run? I say just figure out whatever that is double that number and take that as your four shots. But I have never used still in my life so take my thoughts with a grain of salt
A similar thing happens in home winemaking, when beginners try to filter out the lees from the last liter at the bottom of the batch. I've been there myself and I can assure you, it's just not worth the effort to insist on saving every single drop.
Off topic to the video, but speaking of feints.... do you personally keep all of your tails in your feints to do a feint run later?
Yeah, do the same thing, I don't worry about foreshots, as I don't keep the heads either, unless I need Firestarter or disinfectant.
You sound reasonable for me, Jesse.
So much safer to buffer a large amount, before catching your hearts.
I think this is mostly distillers that make small fermentations, that worry about every milliliter.
Just make a bigger fermentation batch, and run stripping batches, if your kettle can't handle it all at once.
(Better anyway, as the wash has more time to settle out)
Amazing Jessie thank your 4 shots insight lol! My last few runs honestly the first 500ml jar that's collected! I call it my 4 shots. 😅which is basically a mix of heads and 4 shots!
Good Day to all, Nice Vid jessie. I've been doing this for a while now. I do it a little differently. I take 500 ml off every stripping run and another 500 ml on the spirit runs. On my set up I don't use the first 2+ Lt, I need to start compressing the heads so I can get more hearts. Have a good one all.
Thanks for that. I feel pretty much the same. Most distillers are overly anal about foreshots. I usually put about the first 500 mL into a jug for the other purposes you mentioned. What's left of heads and tails goes into a feints jug for adding to future runs, or cleaning runs.
Nicely explained
A simple question, hopefully ! I have Never seen a breakdown of the chemistry, in the " Heads/Top or Mids" part of the distillates found in a simple corn mash/grain alcohol ! Do you have any friends that have access to a photo or mass spectrometer ! Like a lab tech, at nearby collage or university ?? I live in North Carolina USA, in a county that was settled by lots of Scotch and Irish folks !! It was a Dry County up until 1970. So you could bet there was a very large amount of Moonshiners around here ! And pardon the pun, still is !! PS: You are doing a Great Job !!!
Jess try leaving the cap off your still till it starts to steam for abought 10 min. and then add the cap and run as normal " Low & Slow " the fore shots will not be in the mix and the heads will be a lot mellower . ; - )
Seems like a good way to lose some eyebrows and give the shed that nice rustic and charred look.
@@ParadigmUnkn0wn
Yes, alcohol vapors are EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE.
And this is why home distilling for personal use is illegal in many countries. A few nitwits who does not respect or understand the dangers of foolish distilling.
I hope the Gene Bennett(s) out there, stays away from pressure canners/cookers deep fryers and microwaves also.
Me being new, I'm trying to figure out why cut foreshots, some day methanol, some day don't worry. What is the composition of those first ml, and how can you determine that composition has changed to a different alcohol
Methanol burns yellow, ethanol blue/invisible.
When you use a reflux still like the one you are using here, do you need to worry as much about cuts like a pot still?
If you care about the taste and quality of your end product then yes.
There is one situation where the heads are extremely important and that is when you have a homemade copper still using tin/lead solder joints because sometimes tin/lead solder can be leached into the distilled spirits. In that case, testing for contaminates needs to be done asap.
If I take out foreshots on one run do you have to take out foreshots on other runs after ?
So for 13.5 gallons pot how many total all together to throw away
Putting this out there on this video because it was the most recent. I was wondering if you have yet done experimentation with fermenting on the grain vs off the grain. This is something Im going to try with my beer soon and thought it might be an interesting experiment for you. What do you think?
Maybe just collect the first part of the run in a half dozen small jars? Your nose will tell you what to throw out. The “not so bad” can be added to the next run. The “just about hearts” can go into your “tavern grade” bottle, that you will use of making a product that has strong spice that can add a bit of edge to (e.g. Apple Pie).
This is why I collect in pint jars
Yet to start distilling but based on my research so far totally agree except for one point. Wouldn't it be important to know volumes and temperatures during a stripping run to somewhat maximise what goes into the spirit run.
Keen for a new cuts video
Or maybe I should watch the old one
Did my cleaning run/first alcohol run in my still last night
And I’m keen to try a brandy after a neutral
Follow up, would you say there’s a rough fraction your cuts should be?
For example, I’m only using a 3L pot still, and a 15% sugar wine or sugar-apple juice “cider”, I know from my hydrometer that there’s 450mL of ethanol
15 cuts the size of a shot glass?
*yes I know it’s harder on a smaller still, my next mission will be a keg and perhaps then a reflux column.
Amen, Brother! Preach!!
I think a big part of what people worry about here is solved by methodology. I've seen guides that say "collect all your foreshots in one container, then collect your heads, then get a big container for your hearts" etc.
If you just separate your cuts into smaller quantities you'll be fine. You might lose more of your heads that might not quite be foreshots and so could technically go back into another run as feints, but that cut of heads probably has bad flavours anyway.
I dunno that that's exactly what you were trying to say (no offense and love your work, but it was a bit rambly 😂) but that's what I took away from this and particularly watching the process with your rum blending.
Hit that nail right on the HEAD. As a newbie myself you cannot help but look at the net result after the cuts are made and you think am I being to fussy, Why throw that away, I just paid good money to make that and the reasons go on and on. BUT and there is a BIG BUT. What are you are doing it for. If it is for pleasure, Your pride on the label and your turn on for your mates why not put your best foot forward and get tough and do the job right.
Something I realized early on. Yes. It's always good practice to take foreshots, It just removes a significant quantity of garbage from the equation with a minimum of effort and attention. But then, if you didn't get it quite right, it isn't going to be that big of a deal, since any remaining nastiness is still going to be in the heads, which will get processed out into the fores and heads of subsequent runs when you do whatever it is you do with your feints. So yeah, I get it. It's an important step, but not one to be overly concerned with beyond just making sure you do it.
And since I love sharing my current project I'm working on a Fruity Pebbles vodka. It shows some promise, but I won't know until I put my test batch through. Simply put, I'm soaking pouches of cereal in a neutral spirit (store bought this time since I was curious and none of my washes or finished products would work or were ready) after that I'll see what, if anything will transfer through redistillation. If it works well, I plan on adding it to one of my finished washes that already has a fruity characteristic to it. I'm calling it my Breakfast of Champions.
Did it come out well?
Thank you
I just bought a Still It T👌Where do you get the Ts you wear in your videos? Phat👊
Taste, smell & feel...you hit the nail on the head. The esters in the fore shorts are so obvious, it's poison, . and frankly the heads have no place in a final product...now the fine spot where heads and hearts are there, possibly it can be a keeper, I don't understand the debate
I agree, BUT, and I HAVE watched the entire video (and I believe this was a very important discussion to have), I think you did miss something, and that is the fact that the amount of foreshots, heads, hearts, and tails also depends on the type of wash (eg sugar V grain etc) AND the type of still being used (eg reflux V pot). For instance, our mutual friend George has claimed there are NO foreshots at all in a sugar wash through a reflux still - I am not going to test that hypothesis however LOL.
For me, the amount of heads you stated seems way high, at least for a refluxed sugar wash. However, I also concede that your sense of taste and smell seems to be way better than mine (and I used to be a wine connoisseur - or pretended to be ;-)).
I was working on an HCHO sensor for a client today and I happened to learn that methanol in vapor form oxidizes to formaldehyde. Something to think about...
I am about to be new distiller, I have just only made my first sugar wash. The only thing I want is the hearts. How much do I need to through away on a 5 to 6 gal. batch to get rid of the foreshots and the heads, and keep only the hearts? Foreshots ,heads ,and tails only to be used as firestarter or cleaner, never to see the inside of a still again.
What sort of still do you have? Reflux or pot still makes a big difference as the reflux will compress the foreshots and heads a lot more into a smaller volume rather than being smeered over a bigger volumn that happens in a pot still
A 5 gallon wash at 10% abv contains a half gallon of spirits. About 200ml should be fores, then what is left is dependent on your personal preference and desired flavor profile. That initial half gallon is diluted into roughly a gallon of finished product minus what your pallet says tastes bad. Collect your run in small jars and decide what to keep the next day. Cheers!
@@rwhitenz I have a Turbo 500 for now.
Forshots, Heads 145 degrees F, how does Polish Autostill figure this out because it stops, Temp at the "point of no return" in the column? can temp be used to to check for heads and hearts 173 degrees F,
Man, that was useful. Thank you.
Yes. I see Rory Paul commented and I think he is absolutely right! If I have 7Liters of wash, than I collect about 2Liters of 65% ABV. It means it is what it is. :) I do like that - 200mL go to the poison bottle. But than I make "nose" test and if "deep sweet - methanolic" aroma exist I am not collect before there is "light sweet" aroma. P.S. Sometimes this "smell" is presented long time - it is mean - something is totally wrong. I use yeast strains which is low in methanol production. If someone want to know about this subject I can share one .pdf with you. Thanks!
I found out that if you have a small bleed valve at the cap or the top of your column I have it barely open and somewhere around 150/152 temp (on my still 31L pot) I close it off. By that point about 95% of the Methanol has escaped, you can tell by taking a little in a spoon of foreshots/lighter if it burns blue you're good, burns yellow its still there. I find that I take maybe 50ml of foreshots out maybe. Sugar, grain wash (22L) no difference. I also find I get to the heads flavor right away. I'm not throwing away 6/8+ oz of heads.I can get almost 5L of 70 proof Rum. Almost 7 (750ml) bottles.
I was more concerned about the amount of dust on your still. You should get the maid out to the shed and do some dusting! Another great video Jesse!
That’s it, if your making cuts by your senses then there is no way that your going to touch horrible foreshots. I’ve been trying to kill this noxious weed with my foreshots but I think it has an immunity to it now lol. Shine on!
You're logic is sound, brother. I feel there is a strong need to clear the fog that is myth and lore if this is to become a legitimate hobby world wide.
I do agree with your opinion. Let's suppose you have set aside enough "heads" to make a run through your still... Can you estimate what percentage of those heads will make it into the hearts during that second run?
I've heard that really good vodka makers are unusually zealous about removing methanol, and that means you get less hangover from really good vodka. Do they maybe set up their stills to get rid of all the flavor in the heads so that they might concievably get good-tasting product either way?
in a pot still all your cuts contain a bit of the last part, so your heads contain a bit of foreshots, your hearts contain a bit of heads etc. but in a column still that cut is more exact, so the things don't bleed into one another. so they can remove methanol and other nasty stuff more efficiently where their heads are either really small or clean enough to be hearts. it's even more beautiful in a continuous distillation where you're taking the methanol from the top and keep cycling everything until you get the good flavors of the hearts.
I think that I tend to take more for foreshots and heads than I might need to. I tend to lose some end product but I err on the side of caution rather than have bad stuff get through.
Caution is very important in distilling. It’s better safe than sorry... the cost of discarding more than necessary is cheaper than the potential cost to your health 👍🏽
With heads to heart you need to err on the side of taste.
Jesse, your BEARD is the click bait! Agree with with your point about foreshots vs heads, but to better make this craft/hobby legal and accepted, we need to get rid of the bogey man of Methanol poisoning and going blind, so please go over the top about what % to toss and simple burn tests to expose Methanal, etc...
Dump four shots. Save heads for making sweet fruit cordial. Hearts are for blending/cutting. Tails go back in for next run. Sound about right?
If you are new to the craft. When you are trying to decide when you have transitioned to hearts. When is it safe to start tasting the heads?