@3:18 - the discussion about not attacking. Whilst I find the arguments valid for BW, Artosis also played SC2 like this (i am thinking of NASL) and was clearly not attacking and taking advantage of his early lead. inControl was pointing this out on the commentary over and over. So, I think this is not just a strategy, but also Artosis' inherent reluctance to attack.
There is a nugget of truth though because I don't watch Artosis that much but I saw him play a game where he basically won the opening had an advantage and then just sat back and macro'd for like 10 minutes, and lost in a drawn out game. It is hard to play aggressive as Terran though. Flash is the only Terran that can just rush / bust people, and it sort of skews what you think is possible for someone who isn't Flash lol. But from what I see these days he is improving quiet a bit. You can't always do everything at once like the pros.
He already said: They do that in tournaments but for training you want to try improve on that macro war ("get more ahead"). Of course I personally like to see that "busting" also trained, and it's also fun for the fewer if it does work. But it's mor of a sc2 thing.
Cause reddit is not based on quality but how attractive your post appears to the broad dumb mass. Cause reaching 50% downvotes gives you a 0. Not even to start of bots.
This is why i watch Arty. He's modest, and he's good at accepting criticism (good criticism, not when people have a vague idea of an opinion and think that's criticism, since that's reddit's default) He's good at the game, and he tries to get better, 20 years into the game... Keep it up Arty.
I think his issue is not expanding aggressively enough. When you can’t kill your opponent but you have an advantage you should snowball your advantage by taking 2-4 bases or even the entire map and just out expand and out macro your opponent by a huge margin. I’ve seen Larva do this when he plays random against lower skill opponents but Artosis just takes one additional base when he should be taking 4 or 5 extra bases and win handily
problem is terran is the weakest when it comes to expanding. protoss and zerg have static defenses that dont cost pop, if you want to defend your base as terran youll have to dedicate your army pop to holding those bases, granted terran siege is strong, but terran units are brittle.
@@soldier22881 I always found that this made Terran easiest to play against the computer because Terran units are the most re-usable if you use them in the correct situtation because when that happens you just don't lose any of your units. But you're screwed if you do lose them and unfortunately, you ARE going to lose units when playing against a human.
Poor Artosis! He picked the weakest race in Brood War, then he picked the weakest race Zerg in the SC2 beta, then when he switched to Protoss in SC2 it became the overnerfed race! What unbelievably bad luck! No matter what he does, he's playing the underpowered race.
@@tomrotelli1355 nope, terran units are brittle, they have nice some decent casters but zerg is the strongest and protoss comes second place because the late game boils down to strong units and being able to defend you expansions. as terran you have to dedicate pop to protect your expos and that makes your main army weaker. The only strongest thing terran has are air units, battle cruisers are the best late game unit, but the problem is getting there.
@@soldier22881they literally have won the most tournament winnings out of any race… They’re the best race because they have the highest skill cap. But that only matters when you’re at the tippy top of BW skill
@@WisecrackJax so why do almost all the vids i watch on broodwar is terran losing? i see reaver drops decimating scv lines, zerg rushes, zergling muta or zergling hydra dominate. or protoss i see protoss also destroying terran especially early dragoon pressure.
There is no "lose because of this and that." Starcraft is real time strategy and every little decision and min maxing thing matters. Game understanding, micro, macro, mechanics, scouting, army movement etc is what matters, and you have to do it better than your opponent.
Did that reddit commentor who said "someone should teach Artosis when you get ahead, get more ahead" was he quoting him on a satirical level? Or was it pure coincidence.
I don't even know why Arty entertained that thread. I bet those people don't even play the game, but want to criticize the literal God-Terran Artosis who manages to get S rank on a bo1 ladder as terran without cheesing (matching against koreans). What can they say to him that he doesn't already know. Pathetic.
He did because it makes him money on youtube and twitch. its LITERALLY free content that he doesn't have to play the game for. IDk why you haven't realized this.
Honestly, Artosis has a great end game, and that's where he earns my respect. I've watched many games with other players said to be "the best" or whatever, but I see that when end game comes, they can't adapt as well as Artosis.
He's like the Obi Wan of Terran, in Star Wars Obi Wan uses the lightsaber style of soresu a DEFENSIVE style so he could outlast his opponents, yet a lot of Jedi call his dueling prowess as 'weak'
that was interesting... i still wish they'd remove the black fog of war on SC Remastered I don't want to memorise what every map loox like before hopping on the ladder.
@@dj_koen1265 they are just being purist jerks The game is impossible enough to get into as it is imo. On custom maps you get this little preview of the maps. The least they could do is add that for the current ladder map pool as well. There's like actually no ingame way to see the maps before hopping on ladder. I remember trying to find resources online but they had varying quality.
@@Broockle I agree, they need better resources if they're going to make the map totally black. However, I do feel that changing anything gameplay-wise is a slippery slope when it comes to Brood War. So much of what makes the game interesting is people trying to build around the extremely aged and technically bad game mechanics. If you change *anything* you run the risk of disrupting one of the oldest still evolving metagames in history. I'm honestly surprised they've fixed the glitches and improved graphics where they have.
9:10 He's making the distinction between cheese working on single-game ladder matches vs Bo3 or Bo5 tournament sets, and he's not wrong. Fighting games have the same issue, which is why it's considered polite to always Bo3 on ranked, bc winning one game doesn't really mean anything and we're trying to train for tournament situations. I wonder why SC doesn't have a standard of doing sets online vs single games?
@@avinash3396 Its why he has played the same since 2006. Homie actually thinks because his macro timings changed a little he has improved, when he still loses games the exact same manner like when Day9 pushed his shit in at WCGs, over and over.
i like how he skipped over the paragraph thats starts with "Starcraft is about winning. Literally nothing else. Whatever you can do to win is the ideal way to play." that is the most true statement i have ever seen about SC BW in my entire life, and he ignored it and went past it.
I will never know if the angry rt is a show this man puts on to make money. He seems so calm and knows so much about the game. Let alone his commentary. I love how he flipped out when reddit asked him to pay for a badge, I was afraid salty rt was waking up.
I love watching Artosis's casts, etc. He's undoubtedly a very knowledgeable and fun caster to watch, I just hate the way he rages and gets angry with his viewers. Hoping he works on this!
Some people turn into completely different people when playing games. His rage is the allure of his stream and I can't tell how much of it is an act. I suspect very very little
12:53 The difference between donating to Arty and giving shitty ass Reddit money to give someone shitty ass Reddit gold is Mario Erotica-that shit is worth every penny.
Sometimes skill test is a really thing. Sometimes you CAN give your enemy too much credit. Nobody is that well rounded even pros. Giving them the pressure at the right time and they will crumble. The tricky part is to not overcommit and know how to recover from a skill test that went wrong.
No holds barred is for tournaments though. If you're goal on ladder is practicing to get better there's no point making it easier for yourself getting meaningless victories. Like training with weights and taking them off for the tournament.
I will explain it.. Artosis knows everything about the game.. The reason why he has trouble is simply because he doesn't have the speed of pro players. You need to do so much shit at once , there are times when he's focusing on something he isn't marco'ing where as flash is constantly going back to his bases and producing units even in the middle of a heated battle. .. You need like over 300 APM to play terran at a level above Artosis. Otherwise if he had the technical finger skill and multi-tasking he would be a top player. He knows the game better than 99 percent of people in the world.
I wonder when "guys in the chat" would throw a joke of "you should use 11 Valks build" if they had watched Light used it on ladder. By the way, watching Light's gameplay with first person view, is Flash level!!
I feel the 1999 comment. I fucking love pre HoTS sc2, so much so I'd rather watch 2012 GSL than 2022 anything else. The game is so different now that I end up winging 90% of my builds because anything I do know, is outdated.
What's the point of cheesing to get higher mmr on ladder? The point of cheese is that you pull it out during a high stakes tournament and you just win. Or that people fear you might cheese and they do strong adjustments. Cheese on ladder is pointless. Cheesing on ladder is like bluffing in poker with fake money.
you should still occasionaly cheese to keep opponents honest, at least some of the extremely greedy shit you see is because people know you and know they're more likely to get away with it than in most games against simimilar mmr players.
Arty's gameplay is fine, it's his mental that makes him suffer. He's always so ready to blame his opponent for being terrible and that's how they win instead of looking at his own play and seeing what he can do to prevent that kind of thing from happening again in the future.
True to an extent. I’ve seen him call his opponents trash when he gets salty (which is basically all the time when he’s grinding) and then admit that same player was really good once he’s calmed down. I know some people like Artosis. In the heat of the moment, every opponent is fucking trash or garbage lol but he knows deep down if the player was simply better than him, just won’t admit it out of rage.
A lot of these comments seem to assume he wants to win as much as possible, when in reality he is trying to improve as much as possible. He said it better but yeah, cheese can get you easy wins but you don't get better at the game. You don't even get better at cheesing because cheesing is already easy, it's rock paper scissors, if you play your rock cheese and they played macro scissors, you win, as long as you are halfway decent. If you want to get better, cheesing is a waste of time, as he said.
The Special Team in Football. Tipping in Volleyball. Dropshots in Tennis. Fundamentally, these are not optimal strategies, or "meta". They are, essentially, "cheese". But they work as a sudden change of tactics, breaking the flow and expectations of your opponent. This is why they exist and are used in the first place. Of course they aren't used every game, or every round, or every time you have possession - they aren't optimal. But they can get points - they're viable. Artosis simply cannot accept that, because a successful "cheese" in BW is the difference between victory and defeat. In Tennis, or Volleyball, it is over a single point. It is a manner of thinking and comprehending loss. Artosis needs to get out of the mindset that he's playing BW like a scrimmage against a pro, to get better at the game. No. You are not organizing a practice with a pro athlete, you are randomly engaging in a skill-based matchmaking cue that is going to pair you with some random opponent. Is that disappointing? Sure. Are you disappointed in your fellow broodwar player? Fine. But you shouldn't be so angry about it - this is not surprising. You get what you put in to the game, and you're choosing to play against randos on a ladder in a game that is "balanced" towards cheese due to one-game matchmaking.
@@AloneWarriors I'm talking about the stage in ZvT where the Terran is doing their early Marine+Medic push and you try to harass them enough with Mutas just to stay alive. Before Defiler.
@@AM-vn3fq We're also forgetting that the conversation is about holding the enemy attack and just walking to the enemy base and ending the game by wrecking them. We're also forgetting that it isn't that simple for Terran in Starcraft 1, in 2? Sure, it totally can be. Zerg can get mutas by the time the marines get there, toss can probably have DTs, cannons or goons by the time the marines get there. Broodwar with SC2's unit pathing would be a completely different game, but sometimes I feel like people underestimate just how garbage the pathing is in SC1.
Why would you cheese on ladder? That makes zero sense. You want to cheese as little as possible so when you cheese in an actual tournament, it is so much stronger. Terran isn't the race where you can get an advantage and then end the game with a clutch zero hesitation attack. Another big trap for players of RTS in general is that they adjust too much. They lose to something, so they adjust. But they adjust far too strongly, which causes them to lose against something else.
I wonder if just vultures to harass is the problem. I'm no expert so I'm probably completely wrong on this, but what about doing some tank drops for some pressure? Vultures just seem like they're garbage against anything more than probes and zealots, but if he can get a couple tanks sieged up on an expansion he could probably do some decent damage. It'd be quite a bit of an investment depending on when, but it would take more of an investment for them to defend against.
You use vultures to harass after they lay mines cause they only cost minerals, don’t need addon, and build hella faster than tanks. When terran loses their tanks they can’t replace them fast.
As artosis says, cheese on the ladder is truly a waste of time. Of course you can practice those types of builds to have it in your reportoire, but primarily on the ladder, for best practice, you wanna be grinding out your macro openers since they have more depth and potential for improvement.
Because he constantly gets hard stuck at B/A tier and refuses to ever learn how to adapt and get better unless Scan tells him explicitly and even then it might be a lost cause
I imagine that anyone playing on the ladder whom runs into Artosis knows that 95% of the time he won't throw in some crazy build or flat out rush right from the get go. So other players recognize him and take advantage of it by often taking risky builds themselves, like Terrans going CC first, or not even bothering to check for proxies. Players who are known for certain builds just switch to barcode names to hide their playstyles, but Artosis is always Artosis. There's really only one solution to this, Artosis should spend entire weeks/month doing nothing but mixing in CC first, proxy stargates, and flying scv builds into his playstyle regardless of whether he wins or loses, that way his opponents will begin to fear him when they see his ID. Let's be honest chat, every one of you wants to see this.
So you're telling me he's a punching bag or stream sniped? This is pretty much basic quote from Sun Tzu "If you know your enemy and know yourself you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"
outside of the jokes, no sane man could disrespect artosis. dude grinds like a demon and always plays macro oriented games, I'm way younger than him and my wrists can't even keep up with SC2 at low masters.
Light had beaten Bisu with pretty much very aggro tactics. only game 1 was slow win for Light because BIsu made arbiters and ofc he lost with it. (seems like bisu loosing 1 game with arbs every round.. and win 1 with carriers. only a rly stupid person might think that arbiters are as good as carriers look at results) game 2 win with cheese. game 5 Light goes out @ min 7 with 4 fact push and @ min 11 game was over. Game 6 was 2 base 5 fact push Light goes out @ 9 min this time still super aggro and Bisu gg's in 2 min. And this is vs Bisu not some random noob toss in your ladder.
Should've said that Artosis doesn't adequately punish his opponents when they make errors in macro, because that's about all that I can think of. How the hell do you expect Terran to win at this game? It's Brood War.
"There's no bigger waste of time if you're trying to be good at the game." But that's a huge issue with Artosis. Ladder and Pro Games are essentially two different metas. He spends 99% of his playtime on the Ladder trying to get better at the Pro Game meta and gets mad when players use Ladder strats and win against him in their element because he refuses to adapt.
I mean, he shouldn't adapt right? He doesn't want to "Make ladder number go higher" (so he says). He wants to get better. Practicing cheese isn't all that helpful at his level.
He told you exactly why. Because if you're actually trying to get good at the game cheesing all day is a waste of time. It's not an issue of never doing it, it's an issue of the things he needs to practice and get good at he's not learning by cheesing. If you want to know why a lot of online players in just about any game go to an offline tournament and then get washed, that's why. Because quick strats like that are usually stronger in an online environment and give you a false sense of your skill.
@@LoyalSol My point is that Artosis almost never plays in those kinds of tournaments so he's practicing for a meta and style of play that he hardly ever does
@@Dantarn So instead of learning how the pros play and trying to get good at it he should devolve to braindead ladder play? In what world does that make sense?
@@LoyalSol Not the guy above, but lemme give you an example. When I playa TvZ vs any sort of ling bane comp as bio, I will make more marauders and mines in the mid and late game than the pros. This is to compensate for my lack of micro/apm, and it has made me win more games at my level than I otherwise would.
It's funny to me that he's receiving so many criticisms. He's playing against the Elite! Every Day! It's not easy. How about this one: He Loses, because... His opponent is better... Because... He's playing against the best! There is no shame, in losing against the best! Improvement at this level is VERY slow, and VERY meticulous. Someday I hope I'm half his mmr.
What's the difference between Artosis and a Ballet dancer? A ballet dancer is someone who dances ballet, while Artosis is a man who sucks at playing brood war.
11:00 I love how Arty balks at Reddit $4.50 charge to add a badge when folks are dropping $5 all stream long to voice on-stream for 3 seconds.. hahahaha the stream flames him hard
Flash would've gave him Reddit Gold
Lmfao I didn’t expect that one
@Dingle Blup would have*
LOL
should have commented on a flash meme
@@VanRukh the meme is “would of” though
that brainlet meme is so true lmfao
14:28 "I wiggle my builds around all day for anyone who watches"
Honestly, when he get out of his angry character, Artosis is really a smart and interresting person! ♥
I find his casts enjoyable. He's really great at it.
He is great
It’s like if avilo and Einstein had a baby
He was always like this lmao, its not a charachter he just cant control his emotions.
You know, like an literal child.
what are you talking about, his angry character is the best
"Who would pay for this shit!?" Frickin Gold!!!! Artosis is a gem.
@3:18 - the discussion about not attacking. Whilst I find the arguments valid for BW, Artosis also played SC2 like this (i am thinking of NASL) and was clearly not attacking and taking advantage of his early lead. inControl was pointing this out on the commentary over and over. So, I think this is not just a strategy, but also Artosis' inherent reluctance to attack.
There is a nugget of truth though because I don't watch Artosis that much but I saw him play a game where he basically won the opening had an advantage and then just sat back and macro'd for like 10 minutes, and lost in a drawn out game. It is hard to play aggressive as Terran though. Flash is the only Terran that can just rush / bust people, and it sort of skews what you think is possible for someone who isn't Flash lol. But from what I see these days he is improving quiet a bit. You can't always do everything at once like the pros.
He already said: They do that in tournaments but for training you want to try improve on that macro war ("get more ahead").
Of course I personally like to see that "busting" also trained, and it's also fun for the fewer if it does work. But it's mor of a sc2 thing.
I’m glad you liked my comment arty if nothing else you play with skill and honor
Dear Artosis, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Stay strong.
Cause reddit is not based on quality but how attractive your post appears to the broad dumb mass. Cause reaching 50% downvotes gives you a 0. Not even to start of bots.
The brain cage is extremely accurate.
This is why i watch Arty.
He's modest, and he's good at accepting criticism (good criticism, not when people have a vague idea of an opinion and think that's criticism, since that's reddit's default)
He's good at the game, and he tries to get better, 20 years into the game...
Keep it up Arty.
I think his issue is not expanding aggressively enough. When you can’t kill your opponent but you have an advantage you should snowball your advantage by taking 2-4 bases or even the entire map and just out expand and out macro your opponent by a huge margin. I’ve seen Larva do this when he plays random against lower skill opponents but Artosis just takes one additional base when he should be taking 4 or 5 extra bases and win handily
problem is terran is the weakest when it comes to expanding. protoss and zerg have static defenses that dont cost pop, if you want to defend your base as terran youll have to dedicate your army pop to holding those bases, granted terran siege is strong, but terran units are brittle.
@@soldier22881 I always found that this made Terran easiest to play against the computer because Terran units are the most re-usable if you use them in the correct situtation because when that happens you just don't lose any of your units. But you're screwed if you do lose them and unfortunately, you ARE going to lose units when playing against a human.
@@DKNguyen3.1415 yeah playing terran against the ai is fun and easy.
When you're ahead you try to get even more ahead. And if your enemy is about to die, you keep that bastard alive so you can get even more ahead.
Poor Artosis! He picked the weakest race in Brood War, then he picked the weakest race Zerg in the SC2 beta, then when he switched to Protoss in SC2 it became the overnerfed race! What unbelievably bad luck! No matter what he does, he's playing the underpowered race.
Terran is the strongest race in BW... in the right hands.
@@tomrotelli1355 nope, terran units are brittle, they have nice some decent casters but zerg is the strongest and protoss comes second place because the late game boils down to strong units and being able to defend you expansions. as terran you have to dedicate pop to protect your expos and that makes your main army weaker. The only strongest thing terran has are air units, battle cruisers are the best late game unit, but the problem is getting there.
@@soldier22881they literally have won the most tournament winnings out of any race… They’re the best race because they have the highest skill cap. But that only matters when you’re at the tippy top of BW skill
@@WisecrackJax so why do almost all the vids i watch on broodwar is terran losing? i see reaver drops decimating scv lines, zerg rushes, zergling muta or zergling hydra dominate. or protoss i see protoss also destroying terran especially early dragoon pressure.
The whole reddit gold sequence, including with the guys in chat was gold.
Here's your thumbs up.
There is no "lose because of this and that." Starcraft is real time strategy and every little decision and min maxing thing matters. Game understanding, micro, macro, mechanics, scouting, army movement etc is what matters, and you have to do it better than your opponent.
This feels like it could be a couple adjustments away from being copypasta in Twitch chat
Unless you play Protoss
There is way not to attack but too keep the opponent under constant pressure to prevent him from getting back on is feet.
The real question is did he ever pay that $5?
Lmao donated $5
"Imagine wasting $5 on stupid shit"
lmaooo
Did that reddit commentor who said "someone should teach Artosis when you get ahead, get more ahead" was he quoting him on a satirical level? Or was it pure coincidence.
Appreciate your explanation about practice vs just winning. And I very much enjoyed this video overall, as most of your content. Thanks, man!
Hell with Reddit gold, these guys are donating to you directly, Reddit gold just goes into the cyber void
Imagine being so popular and well known that people actually start reddit conversations about you.
I don't even know why Arty entertained that thread. I bet those people don't even play the game, but want to criticize the literal God-Terran Artosis who manages to get S rank on a bo1 ladder as terran without cheesing (matching against koreans). What can they say to him that he doesn't already know. Pathetic.
He did because it makes him money on youtube and twitch. its LITERALLY free content that he doesn't have to play the game for. IDk why you haven't realized this.
I mean it _is_ the SC2 reddit, not the broodwar one.
That arrogance is his weakness. Ya he knows alot, but he doesnt know everything.
Honestly, Artosis has a great end game, and that's where he earns my respect. I've watched many games with other players said to be "the best" or whatever, but I see that when end game comes, they can't adapt as well as Artosis.
He's like the Obi Wan of Terran, in Star Wars Obi Wan uses the lightsaber style of soresu a DEFENSIVE style so he could outlast his opponents, yet a lot of Jedi call his dueling prowess as 'weak'
that was interesting...
i still wish they'd remove the black fog of war on SC Remastered
I don't want to memorise what every map loox like before hopping on the ladder.
like sc2!
@@Justbleed434 like any rts released after 1998
I actually think its just a design decision
A design choice not an objective improvement to the game
@@dj_koen1265
they are just being purist jerks
The game is impossible enough to get into as it is imo.
On custom maps you get this little preview of the maps. The least they could do is add that for the current ladder map pool as well.
There's like actually no ingame way to see the maps before hopping on ladder.
I remember trying to find resources online but they had varying quality.
@@Broockle I agree, they need better resources if they're going to make the map totally black.
However, I do feel that changing anything gameplay-wise is a slippery slope when it comes to Brood War.
So much of what makes the game interesting is people trying to build around the extremely aged and
technically bad game mechanics. If you change *anything* you run the risk of disrupting one of the oldest
still evolving metagames in history. I'm honestly surprised they've fixed the glitches and improved graphics where
they have.
lmaoing at all the rank E master strategists in the comments
god its so good to see ur vids daily, im so into watching you play this rn like addicted ive been caught up for so long i need moar
9:10 He's making the distinction between cheese working on single-game ladder matches vs Bo3 or Bo5 tournament sets, and he's not wrong. Fighting games have the same issue, which is why it's considered polite to always Bo3 on ranked, bc winning one game doesn't really mean anything and we're trying to train for tournament situations. I wonder why SC doesn't have a standard of doing sets online vs single games?
because the devs are too busy drinking stolen breast milk
1:48 "a looooot of this is true, except the things that criticizes me" xD
i love artosis but he cant take criticism for shit
@@avinash3396 Its why he has played the same since 2006. Homie actually thinks because his macro timings changed a little he has improved, when he still loses games the exact same manner like when Day9 pushed his shit in at WCGs, over and over.
7:27 Artosis is soon going to go out and hunt the Avatar.
i like how he skipped over the paragraph thats starts with "Starcraft is about winning. Literally nothing else. Whatever you can do to win is the ideal way to play." that is the most true statement i have ever seen about SC BW in my entire life, and he ignored it and went past it.
Nailed it
The first fkin image has me fking ROLLING the brain cage lmfaaaaoo
I will never know if the angry rt is a show this man puts on to make money. He seems so calm and knows so much about the game. Let alone his commentary. I love how he flipped out when reddit asked him to pay for a badge, I was afraid salty rt was waking up.
im here 0:00 and i know for a fact this video will be pure gold
I think it's pretty obvious.. when you play, people you play against watch your stream knowing exactly where to recall with their stupid arbiters
"Is that how they monetize the site???" lmfao
Jeez, Artosis fan base is so freaking awesome. Love you all guys 👍
loved this segment
Hahahha when he realizes giving awards costs money
His is the proper reaction.
I love watching Artosis's casts, etc. He's undoubtedly a very knowledgeable and fun caster to watch, I just hate the way he rages and gets angry with his viewers. Hoping he works on this!
Him getting angry is his stream though. If you don't like that then the content just isn't for you.
Yeah he exaggerates his reactions for the stream, thats what people come for
You don't have a good sense of humor. Stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us
Some people turn into completely different people when playing games. His rage is the allure of his stream and I can't tell how much of it is an act. I suspect very very little
You sounds like one of those terrible players that Artsosis loses too. Git gud noob!
2:20 According to Tosis, none dies ever lmao
12:53 The difference between donating to Arty and giving shitty ass Reddit money to give someone shitty ass Reddit gold is Mario Erotica-that shit is worth every penny.
Duuuude, I loved this, but reddit is the worst so I don't recommend doing that again lmfao
Sometimes skill test is a really thing. Sometimes you CAN give your enemy too much credit. Nobody is that well rounded even pros. Giving them the pressure at the right time and they will crumble. The tricky part is to not overcommit and know how to recover from a skill test that went wrong.
No holds barred is for tournaments though. If you're goal on ladder is practicing to get better there's no point making it easier for yourself getting meaningless victories. Like training with weights and taking them off for the tournament.
I will explain it.. Artosis knows everything about the game.. The reason why he has trouble is simply because he doesn't have the speed of pro players. You need to do so much shit at once , there are times when he's focusing on something he isn't marco'ing where as flash is constantly going back to his bases and producing units even in the middle of a heated battle. .. You need like over 300 APM to play terran at a level above Artosis. Otherwise if he had the technical finger skill and multi-tasking he would be a top player. He knows the game better than 99 percent of people in the world.
Artosis reads like two comments, because he knows that the more he reads the angrier he gets and the less rational his arguments will become.
I wonder when "guys in the chat" would throw a joke of "you should use 11 Valks build" if they had watched Light used it on ladder. By the way, watching Light's gameplay with first person view, is Flash level!!
Can someone explain to me why it's better to macro clicking each building for a unit instead of hot keying all 6 to 9 buildings on one key?
Because you cant hotkey multiple buildings
@@Nonxsn thanks I thought you could.
Artosis looks over what the brilliant minds at reddit have to say about him.
Luv that video description.
I feel the 1999 comment. I fucking love pre HoTS sc2, so much so I'd rather watch 2012 GSL than 2022 anything else. The game is so different now that I end up winging 90% of my builds because anything I do know, is outdated.
Terrans don't have any real cheeses. "Now I have to try to float my barracks back to my base and hope it gets their faster than the zerglings!"
Are you talking about SC2?
Because I have never seen anyone do proxy barracks or even float a barracks in SCBW TvZ.
I was thinking.. why not cheese until he reaches a higher mmr? That way he doesn't get matched with bad players as often, and he can play good players
He's already in S rank a lot of the time. It's not like there's this magical bracket of MMR where you only get matched against pro players
@@EnvoyOfFabulousness And terran cheese really sucks vs other races cheese so it really just turns into a coinflip whether you can win or not.
What's the point of cheesing to get higher mmr on ladder? The point of cheese is that you pull it out during a high stakes tournament and you just win. Or that people fear you might cheese and they do strong adjustments. Cheese on ladder is pointless. Cheesing on ladder is like bluffing in poker with fake money.
you should still occasionaly cheese to keep opponents honest, at least some of the extremely greedy shit you see is because people know you and know they're more likely to get away with it than in most games against simimilar mmr players.
Arty's gameplay is fine, it's his mental that makes him suffer.
He's always so ready to blame his opponent for being terrible and that's how they win instead of looking at his own play and seeing what he can do to prevent that kind of thing from happening again in the future.
True to an extent. I’ve seen him call his opponents trash when he gets salty (which is basically all the time when he’s grinding) and then admit that same player was really good once he’s calmed down.
I know some people like Artosis. In the heat of the moment, every opponent is fucking trash or garbage lol but he knows deep down if the player was simply better than him, just won’t admit it out of rage.
@@qcdoomqc It's the passion in him speaking.
A lot of these comments seem to assume he wants to win as much as possible, when in reality he is trying to improve as much as possible. He said it better but yeah, cheese can get you easy wins but you don't get better at the game. You don't even get better at cheesing because cheesing is already easy, it's rock paper scissors, if you play your rock cheese and they played macro scissors, you win, as long as you are halfway decent. If you want to get better, cheesing is a waste of time, as he said.
The Special Team in Football.
Tipping in Volleyball.
Dropshots in Tennis.
Fundamentally, these are not optimal strategies, or "meta". They are, essentially, "cheese". But they work as a sudden change of tactics, breaking the flow and expectations of your opponent. This is why they exist and are used in the first place. Of course they aren't used every game, or every round, or every time you have possession - they aren't optimal. But they can get points - they're viable.
Artosis simply cannot accept that, because a successful "cheese" in BW is the difference between victory and defeat. In Tennis, or Volleyball, it is over a single point.
It is a manner of thinking and comprehending loss. Artosis needs to get out of the mindset that he's playing BW like a scrimmage against a pro, to get better at the game. No. You are not organizing a practice with a pro athlete, you are randomly engaging in a skill-based matchmaking cue that is going to pair you with some random opponent. Is that disappointing? Sure. Are you disappointed in your fellow broodwar player? Fine. But you shouldn't be so angry about it - this is not surprising. You get what you put in to the game, and you're choosing to play against randos on a ladder in a game that is "balanced" towards cheese due to one-game matchmaking.
"Zergs do not die"
Immediate smash cut to all the Zergs dying to Marine+Medic A-move in the early game
To defend Artosis, he did say if they're at 70 supply they won't die. Or would you say that's still early game?
@@AloneWarriors I'm talking about the stage in ZvT where the Terran is doing their early Marine+Medic push and you try to harass them enough with Mutas just to stay alive. Before Defiler.
Defiler is definitely an early game unit, you build that unit at the same time you get to build lings
We forgetting about Mutalisks and how they can come before Terran can be ready.....
@@AM-vn3fq We're also forgetting that the conversation is about holding the enemy attack and just walking to the enemy base and ending the game by wrecking them.
We're also forgetting that it isn't that simple for Terran in Starcraft 1, in 2? Sure, it totally can be.
Zerg can get mutas by the time the marines get there, toss can probably have DTs, cannons or goons by the time the marines get there.
Broodwar with SC2's unit pathing would be a completely different game, but sometimes I feel like people underestimate just how garbage the pathing is in SC1.
Lol He doesn't realize you have to practice the cheeses as well.
When you get ahead, *GET MORE AHEAD*
Why would you cheese on ladder? That makes zero sense. You want to cheese as little as possible so when you cheese in an actual tournament, it is so much stronger. Terran isn't the race where you can get an advantage and then end the game with a clutch zero hesitation attack. Another big trap for players of RTS in general is that they adjust too much. They lose to something, so they adjust. But they adjust far too strongly, which causes them to lose against something else.
Reading anything on reddit where every 3rd sentence begins with "Like," is one of the top cringe activities.
Horrasment is a very valid point.
Arty is the Phil Hhellmuth of brood war.
Thats pretty harsh tbh but kinda true hahaha
I wonder if just vultures to harass is the problem. I'm no expert so I'm probably completely wrong on this, but what about doing some tank drops for some pressure? Vultures just seem like they're garbage against anything more than probes and zealots, but if he can get a couple tanks sieged up on an expansion he could probably do some decent damage. It'd be quite a bit of an investment depending on when, but it would take more of an investment for them to defend against.
That might have the mechanical issue he mentioned with controlling multiple armies. Presumably he's working on it though
You use vultures to harass after they lay mines cause they only cost minerals, don’t need addon, and build hella faster than tanks. When terran loses their tanks they can’t replace them fast.
that's our honourable boy
when you start an opinion with ´´havent played the game in 5 years´´ then you know some bs is gonna come out of that keyboard
As artosis says, cheese on the ladder is truly a waste of time.
Of course you can practice those types of builds to have it in your reportoire, but primarily on the ladder, for best practice, you wanna be grinding out your macro openers since they have more depth and potential for improvement.
Why is everyone clowning Artosis who achieved S rank, wonder how many criticizing him are?
Because he constantly gets hard stuck at B/A tier and refuses to ever learn how to adapt and get better unless Scan tells him explicitly and even then it might be a lost cause
I imagine that anyone playing on the ladder whom runs into Artosis knows that 95% of the time he won't throw in some crazy build or flat out rush right from the get go. So other players recognize him and take advantage of it by often taking risky builds themselves, like Terrans going CC first, or not even bothering to check for proxies. Players who are known for certain builds just switch to barcode names to hide their playstyles, but Artosis is always Artosis.
There's really only one solution to this, Artosis should spend entire weeks/month doing nothing but mixing in CC first, proxy stargates, and flying scv builds into his playstyle regardless of whether he wins or loses, that way his opponents will begin to fear him when they see his ID.
Let's be honest chat, every one of you wants to see this.
So you're telling me he's a punching bag or stream sniped? This is pretty much basic quote from Sun Tzu "If you know your enemy and know yourself you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"
So what? You don't seem to understand the purpose of cheese and the purpose of ladder.
"Guy in the chat"
The irony here is that Artosis is likely better than everyone commenting in that Reddit thread.
outside of the jokes, no sane man could disrespect artosis. dude grinds like a demon and always plays macro oriented games, I'm way younger than him and my wrists can't even keep up with SC2 at low masters.
Light had beaten Bisu with pretty much very aggro tactics. only game 1 was slow win for Light because BIsu made arbiters and ofc he lost with it. (seems like bisu loosing 1 game with arbs every round.. and win 1 with carriers. only a rly stupid person might think that arbiters are as good as carriers look at results) game 2 win with cheese. game 5 Light goes out @ min 7 with 4 fact push and @ min 11 game was over. Game 6 was 2 base 5 fact push Light goes out @ 9 min this time still super aggro and Bisu gg's in 2 min. And this is vs Bisu not some random noob toss in your ladder.
Artosis, if you don't do regular Fasting you should.
Artosis learning how far into the darkside reddit has fallen is the best moment here.
11:00 I like how people are making fun of reddit for this while being subscribed to multiple channels on twitch lol
subbing directly helps the streamer, reddit gold does nothing 🤦, classic guy in the chat
Zed vee Zed 🙂
"I do her ass" - Artosis
I would like to see you nuke more/every game.
redditors in a nut shell
Who would pay for reddit gold? Same people who donate to free streams.
Artosis throwing on purpose for RUclips content
Damn that first comment was so accurate.
trying to evaluate ladder games the same as bo3/5 tourny matches :^)
Flash goes and kills his opponent.
Should've said that Artosis doesn't adequately punish his opponents when they make errors in macro, because that's about all that I can think of. How the hell do you expect Terran to win at this game? It's Brood War.
Flash coulda won the games arty loses
UU? RR? UU? RR?
"There's no bigger waste of time if you're trying to be good at the game."
But that's a huge issue with Artosis. Ladder and Pro Games are essentially two different metas. He spends 99% of his playtime on the Ladder trying to get better at the Pro Game meta and gets mad when players use Ladder strats and win against him in their element because he refuses to adapt.
I mean, he shouldn't adapt right? He doesn't want to "Make ladder number go higher" (so he says). He wants to get better. Practicing cheese isn't all that helpful at his level.
He told you exactly why. Because if you're actually trying to get good at the game cheesing all day is a waste of time. It's not an issue of never doing it, it's an issue of the things he needs to practice and get good at he's not learning by cheesing.
If you want to know why a lot of online players in just about any game go to an offline tournament and then get washed, that's why. Because quick strats like that are usually stronger in an online environment and give you a false sense of your skill.
@@LoyalSol My point is that Artosis almost never plays in those kinds of tournaments so he's practicing for a meta and style of play that he hardly ever does
@@Dantarn So instead of learning how the pros play and trying to get good at it he should devolve to braindead ladder play?
In what world does that make sense?
@@LoyalSol Not the guy above, but lemme give you an example. When I playa TvZ vs any sort of ling bane comp as bio, I will make more marauders and mines in the mid and late game than the pros. This is to compensate for my lack of micro/apm, and it has made me win more games at my level than I otherwise would.
lol who would even give reddit gold
It's funny to me that he's receiving so many criticisms. He's playing against the Elite! Every Day! It's not easy. How about this one: He Loses, because... His opponent is better... Because... He's playing against the best! There is no shame, in losing against the best! Improvement at this level is VERY slow, and VERY meticulous. Someday I hope I'm half his mmr.
haha babys first reddit gold attempt
Artosis in 2021 not knowing that reddit works on bragging.
he really does turtle too hard, I love Arty but leave the base dude
What's the difference between Artosis and a Ballet dancer? A ballet dancer is someone who dances ballet, while Artosis is a man who sucks at playing brood war.
first time with ur content and I'm baffled that people actually take ur "raging" serious
11:00 I love how Arty balks at Reddit $4.50 charge to add a badge when folks are dropping $5 all stream long to voice on-stream for 3 seconds.. hahahaha the stream flames him hard
On reddit ur giving money to the company, on twitch you give money to the content creator. Its literally so fucking obvious
If you attack the enemy they don't die ??? Artosis logic.