As always, your presentations are superb, very well done, and your patience in presenting the fine details of specific technical specifications is clear, concise and easily understood. Kudos your presentations. Many professional educators with decades of classroom experience are not nearly as good in getting the details across with clarity as you regularly do in your presentations. Thanks to you many are getting quality lessons that many contemporary college students have to fork out thousands of bucks for less quality and instructional content! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great tutorial Tony! I find the circuit board build quality of that unit looks packed with components. That's comparing Pioneer equipment from same era.
I started watching your videos a few months ago in the hopes of eventually learning enough to fix my DA-P20. Funny that you should get the same model on your bench!
You proposed a video regarding solely about (electrolytic) capacitors. I´d appreciate it very much to improve my knowledge about these components. Just a wish - Yes i know Christmas is over…..hi
YES YES PLS PLS add more info to the description of the videos or allow the viewers some way to collaborate with you to that end! Great videos Tony, thank you!
I have a DA-P10 and A DA-A10 neither worked when I got it ,Found a crack in the A10 circuit board and crack in one of the bus lines , jumpered it and it work good , The P10 has a capacitor 4.7 uf and is swelled burned . will replace it when my parts come in , You sure put on a great educational video ! it also has a couple reed relays I will have to test , first time I've seen a reed relay in a electronic circuit ,
My technique to reduce wear and damage on pads on old style PCBs is this: 1. Put the solder suction pump ready in position on the component leg / pad first. 2. Then put the tip of the soldering iron on the leg of the component and the solder (try to not directly touch the pad) The iron should heat the component leg and pass the heat trough the solder down towards the pad. 3. As soon as the solder liquefies then push the knob on the suction pump. 4. Blow on the pad afterwards to cool it down quickly.
Today you can also purchase non-polarized (or bi-polar) Electro caps for audio use. I've used these where there is just a residual amount of DC offset voltage (ie. Op Amp outputs) with very good results. Only recently have new met-poly caps been made small enough (2-4.7uf range) to fit on boards that had old Electro caps.
Room acoustics are not always symetric, left to right. This way you can adjust them separate to rebalance the sound if the speaker locations do not load the room equally. Another reason not to stack is transformer interference from one unit to the other. If i get my preamp too close my amp, i get extra hum.
NICE! thanks, now i know what to do and what hasn't to be done on the DA-P20 that it's on arrival, jus i would like to see exactly what kind of speaker terminal are cause there are a lot of similar models out there and it's diffucult to find the right one looking on the net,. Again thank you!
Hi Tony - I was browsing audio-grade capacitors on digikey and confused about ripple current values. Given two caps with equal capacitance and voltage rating, and we have two different ripple current values, say 10mA and 20mA, which one is better? 20mA? is that because ESR is lower? And also, when I look at the datasheet, yet another parameter is introduced, "Tangent of loss angle". I guess this relates to "do not select 63V for a 16V capacitor". So, for the "tangent of loss angle", do we need to seek for lowest value at expected voltage?
I always remove the old solder with a de-soldering braid first..It takes a bit longer but I hate re--using that old solder...It also opens up the holes. I found that using a pump or bulb is a pain but usefull if you are moving larger "globs" of solder. Braids tend to absorb quickly.
Is like to see you do a video on schematic reading and understanding the layout, and how to know if you're on the right component. How do you know the when the amp is turned on how the current flowes?
Googling around I caught sight of one of these systems mounted in a rather slender rack style cabinet with glass door. That probably explains why they don't appear to stack so well on their own (excusing the rather unconventional profile, already). As for labelling, you could always place some of the more instructional type videos into their own respective playlists. Time-consuming I know, but least then you can point viewers over to those, instead.
Is there a way to look at the schematic on the device you are working on and be able to tell that the capacitor is in the audio path or not or is it a case of having to run it down to see?
Dear Tony, may I please note one thing? As you almost, but not quite explicitly mentioned, the electrolytics are not exactly true capacitors unless the charge is applied. We use them because there's no choice, not when it comes to bigger figures. On the other hand, when the subject is 4.7mf and lower, I don't see why an electrolytic shouldn't be swapped for a film cap, whenever possible. The price difference is not a real factor these days, yet you get a bulletproof cap that is superior in all possible ways, by a large margin.
Can you (or anyone) please tell me if your DA-P20 "pops" when turned on/off? Mine is still popping after I recapped it. It sounds wonderful when kept on all the time and doesn't present the issue. Just wondering if you know why this happens when there is a 'muting circuit' on the schematic that I can't read or understand, thanks! Wonderful video.
Just got one of these to compare to my DA-C20. I read the specs on the amps to be virtually identical except for the MM output is 90db on the P20 vs 84db on the C20. I can’t hear a difference between the two when using the aux input. I admit to not testing in an ideal environment. The attached amp is the DA-A15DC. Would you recommend one over the other?
Tony, which Deoxit do you prefer for cleaning pots on stereos, not faders, just regular pots, like volume and balance controls, and which do you prefer for switches?
Single sided boards are easier (for me at least) to replace components, with boards with two or more layers it's important not to break the through hole plating, don't be tempted to get the solder out with those small tungsten carbide drills for drilling circuit boards, otherwise you'll be chasing hard to find reasons for something not working. Getting solder out of holes in multi layer boards can be the devil's own job without a proper desoldering pump.
Would it be possible to assign the left and right output controls and tone controls to output to two sets of outputs instead of left and right channels? In other words, control two DA amplifiers to power 4 speakers like a dual output preamp. Still use the one master volume and then have adjustable out level and bass and treble to each amp. I haven't found a dual output preamp that has tone controls for each output.
I have the PA-P10 partly repaired but the left channel board has a bad reed relay and I can not find a replacement , it has a marking of L14 on it i get a voltage reading of 36 volts , any suggestions what i could replace it with ?
xraytonyb Thanks again, Tony! I checked only WIMA mks2 series is small enough to replace orange capacitors. Those are metalized polyester caps not described as for audio. Not sure mks2 is better than Nichicon KL.
i got a weird problem on a thule audio spirit IA100, when i turn it on or disable standby and the output relay kicks in, the output gets a loud "pop". i measured it to be a 10Vp ramp for 10..20ms until it reaches 0V. it does that with and without speakers connected. i replaced capacitors and so on, no idea whats going on. one channel does a clean ramp, the other does a chirp / oscillation.. funny is when i hook the speaker to one channels positive output, and swap the negative outputs, the pop changes from pop to chirp and back. even tho the negative outputs are tied together internally this amp is driving me crazy. i got it broken off ebay and revived it, it was totally burned up, charred pcb and missing tracks. took good amount of time to bring it back to life. these amps are known to be bad at thermal management, thule went out of business due not knowing what they are doing.
If they're low value (under 5 uF) then I would go with the small film caps by Wima, Kemet or similar. For higher values, go with low ESR electrolytics.
Could I ask for some opinion on my issue. I have Sony TA1010 amp that I decided to recap with nichicon, so far I had a blast at it, but there are two capacitors that I'm not sure about. First of, there is that massive (only in physical size) canister 1000uf 63V cap. According to service manual this one is -10% +150% tolerance. Does it mean that I can replace it with two 1000uf or one 2000uf? Plus the replacement I got is like 10% in size, does it matter? Second, there are two capacitors that are marked as electrolytic aluminium and physically they look like water drops upside down. Can I replace them with equivalent not aluminium nichicon caps? Thank you
I don't have answers. Just wanted to say that's the first amp I ever had. Really loved the sound and look it had. Unfortunately it blew up quite spectacularly. Best of luck with the rebuild.
What's your feelings about changing electrolytics for film capacitors. And if the capacitors in the audio change you should use polystyrene capacitors is better. What do you need a muting relay for? You're better off just bypassing it you can just turn the volume down if you want mute, what's the point of having it. You should have put speakon terminals much better terminal anything else
Ussualy I replace to panasonic audio/ FC series caps (just because I can get them locally), but for low values in signal path I just replace to film caps. I could not hear any difference, the idea is not to ever replace those film caps.
aw dont say that they were very different away departure from conventional stereo designs i guess were nt they are connected with diatone audio in japan?
Tony, you didn't answer this, maybe cause you answered my "pulling teeth" comment instead, so I'll repeat. "Tony, which Deoxit do you prefer for cleaning pots on stereos, not faders, just regular pots, like volume and balance controls, and which do you prefer for switches? " As always, thanks.
Why can't a integrated amplifier be reduced to a DSP based amplifier and let Mathematics process the signal using FFT and IFFT transforms so that listing room acoustics can be applied to the music signal to make the music sound the way the producer wanted it to sound like in your listing room. which drive two shift registers driving two R2R networks that are then filtered then fed to the speakers.
There are companies making use of DSP in their designs. You basically described everything up until the amplifier. You still need one to power the transducers(speakers). Class D or otherwise.
I agree. It is an overkill. I think that the size of the circuit would be at least 1/4 of that if they used mostly opamps (dual and quad ones). Like w/ capacitors, there would be multiple interpretations about that topic including noise addition, S/N ratios, THD, etc. But there were high-quality opamps in the late 70s and early 80s and good circuit designers, however some people think that they can hear below 20 Hz and above 20 kHz and they could distinguish by ears the difference between 0.05% and 0.01% THD. I think that the marketing and competitive aspect counted when they marketed these products in a competitive market niche. i.e., what they printed in the brochures had to catch the attention of potential buyers too and they couldn't lie because there would be critical reviews in magazines, etc.
well not even - i have a really really nice preamp that is DISCRETE - only a few transistors - and 1/10th the number of parts that has all the functionality. the big problem with these designs are the 'tone' controls - they create extra problems while giving no benefit
I noticed in the preamp that it seemed all the electrolytic caps I could see were all aligned to the front of the pcb . Would make it easy for fabbing at factory as well as repair service.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
You're the only one I've seen on RUclips that clips your leads BEFORE soldering! Good work! (41:43)
I think Big Clive also trims the leads before soldering.
So do I. Much easier to insert them in awkward places.
As always, your presentations are superb, very well done, and your patience in presenting the fine details of specific technical specifications is clear, concise and easily understood. Kudos your presentations. Many professional educators with decades of classroom experience are not nearly as good in getting the details across with clarity as you regularly do in your presentations.
Thanks to you many are getting quality lessons that many contemporary college students have to fork out thousands of bucks for less quality and instructional content!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
As an added plus we get bonus instructions on resistor installation as “lagniappe” as we commonly say here in Louisiana!
😳😮😳👍🏻
"I could do a whole video on capacitors "
Wife chuckles and says "Bruce would watch"
Great tutorial Tony! I find the circuit board build quality of that unit looks packed with components. That's comparing Pioneer equipment from same era.
I started watching your videos a few months ago in the hopes of eventually learning enough to fix my DA-P20. Funny that you should get the same model on your bench!
Tony, I love your stuff, but as a retired dentist, I can tell you, it's NOT like pulling a tooth!! But keep it up. I love your videos. :-)
You got me!! ;)
You proposed a video regarding solely about (electrolytic) capacitors. I´d appreciate it very much to improve my knowledge about these components.
Just a wish - Yes i know Christmas is over…..hi
What you are doing is a lost art; have to say I enjoy watching it immensely!
YES YES PLS PLS add more info to the description of the videos or allow the viewers some way to collaborate with you to that end! Great videos Tony, thank you!
I recently bought a Hakko FX-888D and it's a great bit of kit and I made sure I got a genuine one. Now saving up for the Hakko desoldering station!
I have a DA-P10 and A DA-A10 neither worked when I got it ,Found a crack in the A10 circuit board and crack in one of the bus lines , jumpered it and it work good , The P10 has a capacitor 4.7 uf and is swelled burned . will replace it when my parts come in , You sure put on a great educational video ! it also has a couple reed relays I will have to test , first time I've seen a reed relay in a electronic circuit ,
My technique to reduce wear and damage on pads on old style PCBs is this:
1. Put the solder suction pump ready in position on the component leg / pad first.
2. Then put the tip of the soldering iron on the leg of the component and the solder (try to not directly touch the pad)
The iron should heat the component leg and pass the heat trough the solder down towards the pad.
3. As soon as the solder liquefies then push the knob on the suction pump.
4. Blow on the pad afterwards to cool it down quickly.
Interesting.
I’ve built a few diy amps dual mono, made him less of an issue for me.
That's what you call a "hack job"? That looked great!
Today you can also purchase non-polarized (or bi-polar) Electro caps for audio use. I've used these where there is just a residual amount of DC offset voltage (ie. Op Amp outputs) with very good results. Only recently have new met-poly caps been made small enough (2-4.7uf range) to fit on boards that had old Electro caps.
Room acoustics are not always symetric, left to right. This way you can adjust them separate to rebalance the sound if the speaker locations do not load the room equally. Another reason not to stack is transformer interference from one unit to the other. If i get my preamp too close my amp, i get extra hum.
Great as usual, I've lost count of the number of relay problems I've had in amps, oxygen is not your friend for metal contacts
NICE! thanks, now i know what to do and what hasn't to be done on the DA-P20 that it's on arrival, jus i would like to see exactly what kind of speaker terminal are cause there are a lot of similar models out there and it's diffucult to find the right one looking on the net,. Again thank you!
Hi Tony - I was browsing audio-grade capacitors on digikey and confused about ripple current values. Given two caps with equal capacitance and voltage rating, and we have two different ripple current values, say 10mA and 20mA, which one is better? 20mA? is that because ESR is lower?
And also, when I look at the datasheet, yet another parameter is introduced, "Tangent of loss angle". I guess this relates to "do not select 63V for a 16V capacitor". So, for the "tangent of loss angle", do we need to seek for lowest value at expected voltage?
I always remove the old solder with a de-soldering braid first..It takes a bit longer but I hate re--using that old solder...It also opens up the holes. I found that using a pump or bulb is a pain but usefull if you are moving larger "globs" of solder. Braids tend to absorb quickly.
Great video and thank you for detailed information about capacitors!!
Is like to see you do a video on schematic reading and understanding the layout, and how to know if you're on the right component. How do you know the when the amp is turned on how the current flowes?
Googling around I caught sight of one of these systems mounted in a rather slender rack style cabinet with glass door. That probably explains why they don't appear to stack so well on their own (excusing the rather unconventional profile, already).
As for labelling, you could always place some of the more instructional type videos into their own respective playlists. Time-consuming I know, but least then you can point viewers over to those, instead.
Is there a way to look at the schematic on the device you are working on and be able to tell that the capacitor is in the audio path or not or is it a case of having to run it down to see?
Dear Tony, may I please note one thing? As you almost, but not quite explicitly mentioned, the electrolytics are not exactly true capacitors unless the charge is applied. We use them because there's no choice, not when it comes to bigger figures. On the other hand, when the subject is 4.7mf and lower, I don't see why an electrolytic shouldn't be swapped for a film cap, whenever possible. The price difference is not a real factor these days, yet you get a bulletproof cap that is superior in all possible ways, by a large margin.
Wow, those Mitsubishi gear looking great all of them. Really, I'll never seen those maskines here in Europe, has the owner importing them from Japan?
Can you (or anyone) please tell me if your DA-P20 "pops" when turned on/off? Mine is still popping after I recapped it. It sounds wonderful when kept on all the time and doesn't present the issue. Just wondering if you know why this happens when there is a 'muting circuit' on the schematic that I can't read or understand, thanks! Wonderful video.
Just got one of these to compare to my DA-C20. I read the specs on the amps to be virtually identical except for the MM output is 90db on the P20 vs 84db on the C20.
I can’t hear a difference between the two when using the aux input. I admit to not testing in an ideal environment.
The attached amp is the DA-A15DC.
Would you recommend one over the other?
47:25 - Sounds like it's distorting only in the lower frequencies - very odd!
Try several frequencies from he function generator.
I had exactly the same relay issue in a Crown IC150 preamp from the 70's and I'm yet to get around to fixing it.
Tony, which Deoxit do you prefer for cleaning pots on stereos, not faders, just regular pots, like volume and balance controls, and which do you prefer for switches?
Single sided boards are easier (for me at least) to replace components, with boards with two or more layers it's important not to break the through hole plating, don't be tempted to get the solder out with those small tungsten carbide drills for drilling circuit boards, otherwise you'll be chasing hard to find reasons for something not working. Getting solder out of holes in multi layer boards can be the devil's own job without a proper desoldering pump.
and even if you've got one it can be a pain if there are large ground pour on the board sometime preheating them helps
Would it be possible to assign the left and right output controls and tone controls to output to two sets of outputs instead of left and right channels? In other words, control two DA amplifiers to power 4 speakers like a dual output preamp. Still use the one master volume and then have adjustable out level and bass and treble to each amp. I haven't found a dual output preamp that has tone controls for each output.
Are going to add a bluetooth module into the preamp
I have the PA-P10 partly repaired but the left channel board has a bad reed relay and I can not find a replacement , it has a marking of L14 on it i get a voltage reading of 36 volts , any suggestions what i could replace it with ?
I have a finished Chinese integrated amp using Sanken Transistors in need of repair. Interested in repairing.
Hi much you charge to re-do this preamp I have one preamp like this one.
About the low leakage orange capacitors, is WIMA film capacitors a better choice than Nichicon KL series? Thanks.
Yes. The main problem is the physical size of the film caps. They get pretty large (as well as expensive) when you go beyond 4.7uF.
xraytonyb Thanks again, Tony! I checked only WIMA mks2 series is small enough to replace orange capacitors. Those are metalized polyester caps not described as for audio. Not sure mks2 is better than Nichicon KL.
i got a weird problem on a thule audio spirit IA100, when i turn it on or disable standby and the output relay kicks in, the output gets a loud "pop". i measured it to be a 10Vp ramp for 10..20ms until it reaches 0V. it does that with and without speakers connected. i replaced capacitors and so on, no idea whats going on.
one channel does a clean ramp, the other does a chirp / oscillation.. funny is when i hook the speaker to one channels positive output, and swap the negative outputs, the pop changes from pop to chirp and back. even tho the negative outputs are tied together internally this amp is driving me crazy.
i got it broken off ebay and revived it, it was totally burned up, charred pcb and missing tracks. took good amount of time to bring it back to life. these amps are known to be bad at thermal management, thule went out of business due not knowing what they are doing.
What’s the best substitute for tantalum capacitors on vintage audio gears? Thanks.
If they're low value (under 5 uF) then I would go with the small film caps by Wima, Kemet or similar. For higher values, go with low ESR electrolytics.
xraytonyb Dear Sir, you are very kind and generous to share your knowledge. Greatly appreciate it.
ive had that happen to me leaving the sldrng iron on on solder point too long very tedious work to try and fix it looks awful after its all burned up!
Could I ask for some opinion on my issue. I have Sony TA1010 amp that I decided to recap with nichicon, so far I had a blast at it, but there are two capacitors that I'm not sure about. First of, there is that massive (only in physical size) canister 1000uf 63V cap. According to service manual this one is -10% +150% tolerance. Does it mean that I can replace it with two 1000uf or one 2000uf? Plus the replacement I got is like 10% in size, does it matter? Second, there are two capacitors that are marked as electrolytic aluminium and physically they look like water drops upside down. Can I replace them with equivalent not aluminium nichicon caps? Thank you
I don't have answers. Just wanted to say that's the first amp I ever had. Really loved the sound and look it had. Unfortunately it blew up quite spectacularly. Best of luck with the rebuild.
Water drops upside down? Seems to be tantalum capacitors.
@@davehwang6815 they are marked in service manual as electrolytic aluminium
What's your feelings about changing electrolytics for film capacitors.
And if the capacitors in the audio change you should use polystyrene capacitors is better.
What do you need a muting relay for? You're better off just bypassing it you can just turn the volume down if you want mute, what's the point of having it.
You should have put speakon terminals much better terminal anything else
Ussualy I replace to panasonic audio/ FC series caps (just because I can get them locally), but for low values in signal path I just replace to film caps. I could not hear any difference, the idea is not to ever replace those film caps.
GIven the handles, they look like they want to be rack mounted. That would explain the lack of ability to stack them.
Yes they mount together front to back but it makes it very long to put in cabinet that's why there compact and there a bitchto work on
After watching whole Mitsubishi series, I guess Mitsubishi should stay away from audio products :)
... and thanks for the capacitor section.
aw dont say that they were very different away departure from conventional stereo designs i guess were nt they are connected with diatone audio in japan?
it was no offense, I just didn't like dual mono design and the way you stack up (actually stack-front;)) units.;)
Tony, you didn't answer this, maybe cause you answered my "pulling teeth" comment instead, so I'll repeat. "Tony, which Deoxit do you prefer for cleaning pots on stereos, not faders, just regular pots, like volume and balance controls, and which do you prefer for switches?
" As always, thanks.
Why can't a integrated amplifier be reduced to a DSP based amplifier and let Mathematics process the signal using FFT and IFFT transforms so
that listing room acoustics can be applied to the music signal to make the music sound the way the producer wanted it to sound like in your
listing room. which drive two shift registers driving two R2R networks that are then filtered then fed to the speakers.
There are companies making use of DSP in their designs. You basically described everything up until the amplifier. You still need one to power the transducers(speakers). Class D or otherwise.
Just wanted to change them anyway
Can someone give me the link to the nichicon chart ? I cant find it. I can find other charts but not the right one...
Found it 🥳
wow what an unnecessarily complicated set of circuit designs!!
I agree. It is an overkill. I think that the size of the circuit would be at least 1/4 of that if they used mostly opamps (dual and quad ones). Like w/ capacitors, there would be multiple interpretations about that topic including noise addition, S/N ratios, THD, etc. But there were high-quality opamps in the late 70s and early 80s and good circuit designers, however some people think that they can hear below 20 Hz and above 20 kHz and they could distinguish by ears the difference between 0.05% and 0.01% THD. I think that the marketing and competitive aspect counted when they marketed these products in a competitive market niche. i.e., what they printed in the brochures had to catch the attention of potential buyers too and they couldn't lie because there would be critical reviews in magazines, etc.
well not even - i have a really really nice preamp that is DISCRETE - only a few transistors - and 1/10th the number of parts that has all the functionality. the big problem with these designs are the 'tone' controls - they create extra problems while giving no benefit
for example: www.flickr.com/photos/yurivv69/11334944004
I noticed in the preamp that it seemed all the electrolytic caps I could see were all aligned to the front of the pcb . Would make it easy for fabbing at factory as well as repair service.