Excellent video as usual. It's been a while since I looked in, so I have plenty of your videos to catch up on. I'm presently absorbed in a project based on the British retreat from Mons in August 1914.
Great video, as always. However, I find it a bit said that the struggle of especially Alsacian culture was not explained in a little more detail. Historically, today´s Alsace was mainly German-speaking since the early middle ages, following the westwards-movement of Germanic tribes into the Gallic region. This is why most of the city names are German: Straßburg (road castle), Mülhausen (Mill house), and so on. The French versions of these names still show the German heritage. The distinct dialect spoken in Alsace was Alsacian, a version of middle and high Alamannic, very similar to the dialects spoken today in the German region of Baden and in northern Switzerland. French cultural influence and assimilation properly began in the late 17th century, when king Louis XIV of France conquered the region that had belonged to the Habsburgs before. However, most people continued to speak German as their mother tongue even under French rule, but they developed a certain sense of national pride for France in the following two centuries under French control. Fun fact: the French linguistic influence not only affected Alsacian German, but even the Alamannic dialects in today´s South-Western Germany: A dialect version of "hello" in Alamannic is "salli",coming from the French greeting "salut". During the French revolution, many Alsacians served in the revolutionary army and many famous French military commanders were from the region. Only when France regained control of Alsace-Lorraine after WW1, the French actively began enforcing their language upon the mostly German-speaking population of Alsace-Lorraine, in order to properly integrate the region into France and to eradicate any German identity or allegiance, which they saw as a threat (for a good reason, regarding what happened in Germany just afterwards). Unfortunately, these anti-German policies, which continued after the end of WW2, meant that today mostly old people still speak their German dialect, and a whole linguistic branch of the German language and therefore a rich local culture is about to go practically extinct, since there is little interest by the French authorities to preserve the regional German customs and languages they tried so hard to get rid of. I used to live seven kilometres away from the French border in South-Western Germany and my late grandfather had many friends from Alsace with whom he spoke German. Unfortunately, their children and grandchildren do not know how to speak this language anymore. Important footnote: Before a discussion starts about this: I do not claim that at any point in history ALL of Alsace-Lorraine was German-speaking. The easternmost regions of Alsace and about half of Lorraine were and still are predominantly French-speaking; the regions´ borders never properly adhered to the linguistic borders. For example, the region around Metz in Lorraine, even in Medieval times and later under German control, were French-speaking. Alsace-Lorraine always was a linguistic border-region and therefore there were many German- and French-speaking communities neighbouring each other, as well as many bilingual communities, therefore drawing a clear language line is virtually impossible. This intermixing of the two languages and cultures is what makes the region so incredibly rich in history and so fascinating to study.
Indeed. The entire process of thrashing about in search for clearly delineated ethno-lingual demarcations was a desperate and messy project, ‘ solved ‘ by the Prussians and their Nazi successors simply by paying no attention to such ‘ trivial ‘ concerns. In recent times, the Muslim Bosniak populace has been exposed, particularly in eastern and northern Bosnia, to indescribably revolting persecution by self-styled Serb ‘ nationalist ‘ sadists and sundry other thugs and utter lunatics, in spite of the local dialects of ‘ Serbo-Croat ‘ employed by the victims bearing a far greater semblance to what might be heard in Belgrade as opposed to the streets of Zagreb or Split.
The "intermixing" of languages only occurred after it was annexed by the French in 1648 when Germany was near destroyed by the 30 year war. This is not something to celebrate. when Franc and germany split into 2 countries in 843 it wa 100% german and only annexed to france on centuries of french imperialisms.
@@HistoryHustle Alsatian IS is a German Alemannic dialect just like Swabian. Like all other dialects in areas that weren't inhabited by a Saxon or Frankish majority, after having completed the 2nd loud shift in the middle ages that separated High German from all other Germanic languages (including Low German!), all Allemannic dialects including Alsatian are per definitionem archetypes of High German dialects, I would say: "Plus Allemand, tu meurs!"
Nothing but political correct history teaching. "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past". George Orwell, 1984
The lands were origininally mainly "Germanic" in culture and language but they were gradually annexed by France from the middle, to the end, of the 17th century. Two hundred years later they were taken over by Germany and then back to France in 1918, then back to Germany in 1940 and have been ruled by France since 1945. However a few more swaps are needed before they come close to the history of Berwick, on the English/Scottish border. It has changed country 14 times, so far.
@@emmanueldidier321 Ah, Didier, then Ukraine is also Polish...We are not talking about 'Political' entities, we are talking about Language, culture, cuisine, and ethnic history. You might as well say the Congo was Belgian. As Tarkovsky once said to a man who made a silly point, You are a very stupid man.
@@emmanueldidier321 It may have been under a ruler whose roots were Polish, but it was never "Polish" in our sense of the term-it was never populated by Poles, nor was it ever part of the native Polish culture. Your comment is invalid.
I am of Alsatian heritage. When Louis XIV took over the region, my ancestors fled. While a united Germany didn't exist at the time, my ancestors knew they were German ... and not French. We've been in America a long time now, but we still identify as German, and I still see Elsass and Lothringen as a French-occupied part of Germany. What I find so disconcerting is, no matter the circumstances or situation, history always seems to favor the French. Love your channel ... this one just touched a nerve.
the sad truth about Germany is that is borders with itself...besides land in France, half of the land that Poland owns today is former German, Czech Republic also owns a lot of German land etc.
This happens in history. - Around 800 the Elbe river still formed the border between German and Slavic peoples, before the Germans crossed the river and settled east of it. - Until 1864 South Slesvig had been Danish for > 1000 years (it never belonged to the Holy Roman Empire). It was probably an error to annex Alsace and Moselle (we should not call the territory "Alsace-Lorraine" or "Elsass-Lothringen" anymore, as the Reichsland did actually not contain even half of any historical region named Lorraine or Lothringen or Lotharingia) in 1871 without any plebicite or other kind of justification.
Alsace-Lorraine, a bordering area between Germany and France, was more German than French to begin with. It was originally part of the Holy Roman Empire, and its inhabitants were not only more of a German stock ethnically but also spoke a dialect that resembled the German rather than the French language. The chronically weak and enervated HRE, however, was unable to fend off the territorial ambitions of a unified and far more powerful and advanced France of that time, hence this area was formally and forcibly annexed by France after the Thirty Years' War. Thus it is of complete justification that a unified and resurgent German Empire took back its own old land from an arrogant and invidious French Empire after defeating the latter in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 when France attempted to unjustly prevent the German people's natural right for reunification by not only occupying Alsace-Lorraine continuously but also holding a few other small Southwest German states as its vassals. Justice was served by the fair and rightful German re-inclusion of the inherent German territories into the bosom of the German motherland. Let the truth be known!
People always focus on 1870 and later. The history of this area for the 1000 years before is ignored. A little Corsican, who started a few wars, and the French kings wanted the area for its rich resources.
In regards to Lorraine it is not quite true: the Duchy of Lorraine was indeed part of the HRE but does not correspond to the Lorraine territory annexed by the Germans. The two biggest cities, Metz and Thionville, were never part of the Duchy of Lorraine. Metz became french very early (1552), and the second most important city of that territory, Thionville, was part of the spanish Netherlands until it became french in 1659. The language spoken in northern Lorraine was not German but a dialect close to Luxembourgish which is as old as latin and which inspired german, but not the other way around.
Well, l'Alsace-Lorraine is mostly the ancient territory of "Lotharingie" in Clovis and Charlemagne age, many Frankish tomb was discovered so before The HRE these region was in fact in "french territory" and with the treaty of Verdun that split Charlemagne empire in 3 parts one become HRE and other part France. The people are not more german than french cause they all part of the same kingdom at the begin.
@@nerevarindoril3435 Frankish kingdom does not equal French. Frankish is a Germanic tribe which has its representation in both France (West Frankish) and Germany (East Frankish) . In addition, in your logic, all three nations of France, Germany, and (Northern) Italy were all part of the same ancient kingdom, which however has no relevance to the fact of territorial dispute between the later nation states of France and Germany. So what you argued is pointless.
@@LaemRinkee The fact that Metz became French territory very early does not mean it became French justifiably. It is still more German than French ethnically, linguistically and naturally. The fact that Thionville, for all its French sounding name, being part of the Spanish Netherlands is also redolent of its German rather than French nature, as Netherlands itself was originally part of the Holy Roman Empire, only to seceded from it later. The fact that the language spoken in Northern Lorraine is close to the so-called Luxembourgish and inspired German is at best irrelevant to the gist of the argument here, if not actually indicating its stronger ethnic German than French nature.
In the movie "Sorrow and the Pity" there is an interview with a family from Alsace. They specifically say, in German, they preferred to be German. There were no subtitles when this was said.
@@tylerhiggins3522 No. Germany performed the first genocide of the 20th century 1906-08, massive atrocities in France and Belgium 1914 before the trenches were dug. Inhumane practices in East Africa and the Solomon Islands. Germany helped out the Turks in the Armenian massacre in 1915 and showed them how to perfect the killings, then, skipping the Spanish Civil War and Guernica, their crowning infamy, 1939 - 1945, the Holocaust and other crimes too numerous to mention. The Germans can never be trusted not to revert to what they were at the time of the Romans and the 30 Years War. They must always be closely watched or they will do it again. Something went wrong in their double helix.
I was for two times in Alsace and I observed that it still remains practically an German territory. The people and names of towns are by far German. And this after over 75 years of cultural cleansing made by the French authorities. After 1945 the Alsacians could not have any kindergarten, elementary schools and no German language used in their universities. Just the last few years, some kindergarten were allowed to exist.
@@TheCyricSun Read carefully what I wrote. Identity is kept through family, public education and instruction. Only due to the family education and cultural heritage, the German based culture has been kept alive. The French state forbid any kind of public education and instruction in German language, since 1945.
It all sounds a bit repressive but to put it into context France and French speakers have done exactly the same in French Flanders where hardly anyone speaks Dutch now, and likewise in Wallonia where the Walloon language has been completely eradicated.
@@Alex-dc3xp The French Republic has promoted the use of French for compulsory public schooling and developed a national feeling. The gradual disappearance of regional languages is a concomitant fact. Better to speak French and be educated than to speak your native dialect and be illiterate. This is the challenge of the French republic at the end of the 19th century.
Historians tend to forget that Alsace-Lorraine was annexed by France during the rein of Louis XVI. Local parlance is a German dialect and economic ties have also been quite close to Germany.
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted. And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
@@HistoryHustle , I am from Strasbourg, Alsace has a rich and complex history like its inhabitants, of course, today many feel French and how could it be otherwise since we grew up with hatred and ignorance of our past and our origins. I was not aware of this richness of dual culture until my military service when French people from the interior called me "dirty Boshe". My great-grandparents died in 1980, they always refused to speak French. my grandmother just died 8.4.1924-1.1.2023. She has lived through history and suffered the political decisions of each other without any claim, only one thing is certain and important.. the Alsatian language .🇮🇩Elsass 🇮🇩 « So let's swear on our flag You my brothers, from the Vosges to the Rhine Never shall a foreign hand seduce us We will always be faithful to Alsace »
I'm an American of half German descent. My great grandmother on my moms side, her family came from the Alsace Lorraine region. They were German, but they came to the states long before Alsace Lorraine was apart of the German Empire. So, they were a part of the ethnic German minority that lived in French Alsace Lorraine.
There is no „French Alsace-Lorraine“ before WW2 it was German for over 1000 years, look at the street and place names everywhere in the area, only because the carried out ethnic cleansing and Germans are nowadays suppressed by the French government, doesn’t make the region French, whoever told you this nonsense is a liar.
Thank you! My ancestors came from Alsace-Lorraine. So much blood has been shed for dominance in Alsace-Lorraine. So many were Huguenot! This was also a problem for this region for centuries.
a lot hugenotts came to swisse. and parts of elsass was with the other cantons in the „eidgenossenschaft“, Napoleon took it away from the bound when he took controll as far as i know. the hugenotts gave us a lot technology, that started to help switzerlqnd to be developped. sometimes i visit Elsass, and in the regions where Elsacien did not extinct, i can communicate with them in Swissgerman. (most of those dialects are part of the Allemanic language, wich is a own german language group). And simmilar to regions in Switzerland are some Regions bilingual. after the second word war some where thinking to give it to switzerland. i think they not even wanted it…. what a shame. The billingual character and the meany allemanic speakers would have been well preserved, as we have all of those languages. These Days i think allemanic is about to extinct…. in generall the older the people are, the better they speak allemanic
@@viddl8267 Thank you for your comments. I think the religious persecution and constant border wars drove my ancestors to leave their village of Postroff to come to America.
In 1648 the Sundgau, southernmost part of Alsace was annexed by France, 1681 Strassburg was occupied. In 1766, after the last duke of Lorraine died, this territory was added to France. These changes in favor of France were accepted by the Germans. But the French did not accept their loss of 1871. Thats the point from which the modern dispute started.
@@viddl8267 The Hugenots were very good at papermaking, which may not sound like much these days but it was a really big deal. A Hugenot, Vaughban, was the inventor of the "Vaughban Star", probably the highest technological development that fortresses ever received before the invention of steel reinforced concrete. The Hugenots we're deeply betrayed and ruthlessly persecuted by Louis XIV when he revoked the Edict of Nantes, which had been a religious toleration edict.😢
Parts of my family are originally from Altkirch/Oberelsaß for hundreds of years. Yet my great grand parents had been expelled after WWI. Nobody ever cared about this unjustice.
Im a french, and i like when people other countries speaking of the french history, I underdted so that people are interesting by that party of history, thanks
Thanks Sir for this episode. Really interesting to know about Alsace Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian war. Can't wait for the episode of Alsace Lorraine Soviet Republic.
Maybe you should report a bit in detail the "Alsacian present". The German origin dialect is dying out and even the identy of the region itself is disappearing as well, especially since it has been renamed (Grand Est).
France recently combined several areas into larger regions. Alsace was supposed to be semi Autonomous region, but was attached to the new region of Grand Est. Many people in Alsace are still fighting this decision.
@jonnyneace8928 It was part of the Holy Roman Empire (German speaking), before it became part of France in the 17th century (after war). It is a lie that there was no German dialect before 1871.
Up until the 19th century, Germany had been on the receiving end of French expansionism, culminating during the reign of Napoleon I. Alsace-Lorraine used to be German through and through, definitely in the case of Alsace, less so in the case of Lorraine. However, by 1871 people there had come to embrace French culture and many considered themselves French (albeit German speaking). Subsequently, they experienced the German annexation as a foreign occupation and not as the long-awaited return to the German motherland, as the Germans had hoped. And since Alsace-Lorraine was governed directly from Berlin, they got to experience unfiltered Prussian militarism (exemplified in the Zabern Affair, which was started by a loudmouthed, arrogant 20 year old Prussian Lieutenant).
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsacian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted. And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
I enjoyed that, Stephan. You spoke more slowly and I could take it what you said. I like the passion with which you deliver your videos and I learn a lot. Thanks.
I didn't know much more than that Germany and France sometimes had 'trammelant' about that area. Thanks for the lesson, teach! Groet'n from Groningen 🌷, T.
Great video. I have ancestors from that area. After doing a family tree, all the first names were French and the last names were German. I guess they weren’t taking any chances
This is a sign of forced franconization. First names are easy to change as a sign of adaption ( submission?) to forced cultural change whereas last names are much more difficult as family names are on deeds, church records etc.
@@elizabethmiller7918 not forced francization people naturally gave those names. A good illustration of that is that during the almost 50 years of German presence they never stop giving French names.
@@tonyhawk94 A people under cultural dominance will assimilate first by giving culturally acceptable first names. Its a well know phenomenon of both assimilation or culturicide. Anytime you see a region with last names of one nation and first names of another a form of culturicide is occuring (or has occured). I am neither german nor French but truth matters and those who are the product of this conditioning would do well to drop it like an old coat.
@@elizabethmiller7918 oh my god stop using dumb words like "culturcide" because it means that one did something intentionally to the other. The alsatian people gave French name to their children naturally and themselves became French progressively. You seem no to have any comprehensionnof what history is. Maybe you wanna talk about the fact that Alsace was initially Gallo-Roman and that Strasbourg should be called Argentoratum because the Alamans committed a culturicide ? Grow up.
You know more about the history of these regions than the inhabitants of these regions themselves ^^ Thank you from an Alsatian who is passionate about history
Few remarks, some part of Elsaß-Lothringen. It is Wackes not waker! It is a legend made that all Alsacians were send to Easter front , all my grand fathers fougth in battles against the french! But good work! You also forgot some important points about 1911 with the constitution and 1918 full autonomy offered by Berlin! The economy boomed, new banking that still exist today as credit mutuel! And also the culture finally got emancipated with strengh positivly. Straßburg got much bigger and gain and very serious university, a lot of new jundgenstil architecture.
So did your grand parents resettle in Germany after WW1 or did they stay in France ? If they stayed in France did they feel ok with becoming French ? Also at that time prosperity was quite good in France.
Alsace and Lorraine are very different historically: Lorraine was an independent dukedom belonging to the King of Poland until 1760, when Stanislas gave it to Louis XVth as dowry to his daughter Maria Leczinska when she became queen of France.
I can’t believe this ……where did you get these facts. Nowadays, almost no one speaks German in Alsace especially the younger generation Try to speak German in Strasbourg, that’ll be a laugh
@@arnaudhartmann5236 would be worth mentioning and I would agree with these figures. . I am half German……and French…..so trust me when I say that by and large, even if they understand it, I know very few people who are fluent in German…..especially among young people. The level is the same as for Parisian waiters in Paris. And I find it sad…….for them. Mastering several languages in life is a huge bonus and living in a region where the culture is more Germanic than Latin one would think people jump from one language to the other like it has been the case for me.
Annexed is a bit inprecise word, more recorporated onto the Reich. E.L was annexed by the French in the 17th century, the Names of Cities and Architecture up to thes time are heavely influenced by german culture.
It doesn't mean it belong to Prussia in the first place haha. Prussia indeed annexed Alsace and Moselle. Just like the French started after the 30 years war (treaty of Westphalia).
@Jokolo I say it because as the video mention, Alsace was put under direct control of the central state therefore Prussia (but to beore accurate under the Kaiser's thumb).
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
@@HistoryHustle Well, its true, the HRE incorporated many non germanic areas, Burgundy, Northern Italy, Bohemia etc. and was no nation state but a loose confederation. Those areas certainly can´t be considered as German by todays definition. From my point of view a German is somebody who speaks "A" german tongue and shares a certain culture. And with this i don´t mean just Standart High German, because its a artificial invention from the time of reformation. By this definition Alsacians, Luxemburgians, Austrians, South Tyrolians are Germans by ethnicity, not by nation. The german speaking Swiss call themself Deutschschweizer and refer to their romanesque fellow citizens traditionaly as Welsche( related to Wales, meaning something foreign). So in a certain sense they are also Germans, despite beeing de facto politicaly independent from HRE since 14th ct. The problem is that more centralistic non germanic majority states like France in Italy were or still are eager to erase the german identiy of their anexed regions. South Tirol gained some cultural autonomy(bilingual school curiculum, etc) after massive resistance of locals against italianization in the 60s. In the case of Alsace Loraine i fear it might be to late. The local dialect and identity are on a spiral downward and its just a question of time till Alsacian see themself as common Frogs. Therefore they should get certain autonomy and protected minority status, something like the Danish minority and the Sorbs in Germany have.
Alsatians nowadays are very French, but it might have been worth mentioning that they started out as Germans until one day in the 18th century, (correct me if I'm wrong), the French army walked in and annexed it for France.
it was a process over centuries. 1648 when the most important town of the region was annexed to france (Strassburg) and when most agree the annexation was complete.
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsacian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted. And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
Your channel is a real jewel, love watching your stuff. Call me a stickler, but one of your episodes isn’t complete unless I hear the words, “I’m hustling history… for you!”
A few years ago,(20 maybe) there was a meeting between the last British soldier of WW1 and the last of the Kaisers soldiers. The 'German soldier' was a French man from Alsace-Lorraine.
There has been long term overlap of Germans into Alsace. I visited a cemetery in Alsace ~ 2000 and was shocked by how many Schmidts who were buried there. I was also surprised by how many locals who initiated verbal communications with me in German vs. French.
My aunt was Alsacian. After ww2 my uncle took part in rebuilding the steel mills in Luxenborg, there he met and married my aunt. She was a Germaqn Luthern but she always seemed French to me, a little kid. I wish she were still here, she had some interesting stories about German occupation and the crulety of the SS.
Its incredible how much history Alsace - Lorraine has and how it shaped western europe. ever since lotheringa its been an area that has been disputed for more than a millenia .
The idea that Alsace Lorraine was disputed through all ages is wrong. For some decades it was indeed disputed in the 9th and beginning 10th century. In 1648 France annexed the
The idea that Alsace Lorraine was disputed through all ages is wrong. For some decades it was indeed disputed in the 9th and beginning 10th century. In 1648 France annexed the
@@rudolfkraffzick642 Not realy , its been disputed for centuries , even up till the Franco prusian war. and ww1 . it schanged more hands than a woman changes shoes.
Excellent synopsis of the interwar era in the Alsace-Lorraine region, Professor! Its no small wonder Alsatian recruits were thus bidden off to the Eastern Front, or the Imperial Navy! Definitely, the German 2nd reich had failed to incorporate the people into their nation.
@@HistoryHustle , Always a pleasure to add to the wee corners of the ancient conflict of Charlemagne's three sons-three kingdoms mistake into the 19th-20th century sir!
Actually not. It had economical reason for the protest. And secondly at the beginning of the 20th century many people wanted to be part of Germany just for economical reasons, which were better than in France.
My Grandmother was from an old Alsatian family and spoke German and French. She moved to the German side of the Rhine after WW2. She was unhappy with the French government suppression of the Alsatian dialect.
My great grand father was an immigrant from Lorraine born in 1868 and from what I was told always considered himself French. His wife great grand mother was born in Alsace in 1872 and had a German birth certificate. My great grand father became a US citizen but not my great grand mother. During WWI she had to register as an enemy alien even though she like her husband considered themselves French.
You are talking like the people there were speaking french, but in fact 90% of them were speaking german, but in fact there was only a conflict between catholic civilans and prorestant prussia.
Speaking German is different than feeling German. They spoke Alsacian (which indeed looks more similar to German). But in Switzerland people also speak German, but don't consider themselves German.
@@HistoryHustle : You come a bit closer to the reality but let me be more precise. I will try to keep it short. Before the German Empire, German was largely understood as ethno-lingustic characteristic - so not in the sense of forming a nation-state. Alsatians and people from frankish Lorraine identified to this. The formation of the German empire and German being used as adjective for this state construct then messed things up. People felt "Ditsch/Dejtsch" but more distant to this political construct and would name fellow members of the German Empire "Prejss" (Prussian) or "Schwáb" (Swabian), both being derrogative - just as derrogatives were also being used for the French at various points of time.
My Grandparents on my Dad,s side, came to Canada around 1907. They were low German speaking and Roman Catholic. Both of my Grandparents ancestors came from Alsace-Lorraine region. I.m not sure of what part of the area . I was told by my Dad that they were force out. So the families ended up in Russia and worked on farms near the Black Sea. They came to Canada so they could by their own land to farm. My Grandparents met in Russia I,m not sure if they were born in Russia or Alsace-Lorraine or if it was their parents that were born in Alsace-Lorrsine? My Grandmother was born in 1887 and my Grandfather was born in 1867.
So culture wars are not a modern invention? This has been going on for a long time. My grandmother grew up in the slavick area of Hungary. She was beaten for speaking Slovak at school. She followed her mother and half-sister to the US in 1910. For an undereducated woman at the beginning of the 20th century she could speak Slovak, Hungarian(she won a trophy for her Hungarian speaking ability at school) and English. Amazing loving little old lady who raised 5 kids as a single mom!
My great great great grandmother was born in Alsace. She left for the United States shortly before the Franco-Prussian war and she died in 1919. My great grandmother said that she was happy to have lived to see Alsace returned to France after World War I.
My father's mother's parents left there for the USA about 1890 (surname Molyet). My grandmother said they spoke Alsatian at home but would not teach it to their children saying, "You are Americans, you speak English," then my grandma would add her parents were able to have private conversations (such as about Christmas gifts) in front of the children. Those great grandparents were Catholic, attended the local "German" Catholic church (at that time this town also had "Irish" and "Polish" parishes) and died before I was born. Wish I could have heard why they left.
Thank you for the video. Honestly I dont care if Elsac-Lorraine is german or french (I am german btw)... I just wish for german/french everlasting friendship and never any war again. The lifes of people are important and they should have the framwork to build the life they want to... I think war just does not fit in that framework for most of us.
Shameful how the French sunk to the same level, doing everything they could to destroy the Alsatian culture after WW2. Straßburg was majority German speaking as late as the 1970s.
Culture is more than just language and the Alsacian language can still be seen. The region was subjected to Francofication. I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
@@HistoryHustle At no point did I advocate returning the region to Germany. And contrary to your assertion, language is the bedrock of culture. Destroy the language and you destroy the culture. If you want to talk pragmatism, Elsass should be an independent Alemannic state where both French and Elsässerdeutch are official languages. But of course we both know that will never happen.
My ancestor was Prussian (from Elberfeld, now Wuppertal, Rhineland) in the Franco-Prussian War. He was a mounted (horse) policeman in Alsace-Lorraine in 1914. I imagine he was on patrol against such anti-German sentiment. I still have his Franco Prussian War Medal. He wore it so much the clasp broke and he had the medallion sewn directly onto the ribbon.
Well it is more complicated - the word "Prejss" = Prussian (in Lorraine) and Schwáb = Suabian (in Alsace) were used in a pejorative manner against the German authorities - NOT THE WORD "DITSCH" as people from Alsace-Lorraine recognized themselves as being part of the "Ditsch/Dejtsch/Deutsch" identity. So commonly, "Eener vu de unsre" (one of us) refers to fellow people from Alsace Lorraine. Even know, some being "De Fránzoos in de Stráss" (the French living in our street), everybody know exactly who we are talking about.
Alsace is anexed from France, it was German most of the time. You can see it on all buildings and achitecture. Its under French control …in the moment😃 under the french control Straßburg is a garbage disposal.
Look at the architecture of Lille or Arras : it is Flemish. Look at the architecture of Nice or Cannes : it is Italian. Look at the architecture of Perpignan : it is Catalan. Look at the architecture of Biarritz : it is Basque, etc.... Nobody here has any kind of problem with that.
I come from Picardie and most of the architecture there has been 95% destroyed by German army in the 1st world war. You are lucky not to experienced that. Bye
My ancestors in Alsace were pro-Kaiser and pro-Germany During WWI they were proud Germans But in WWII they were anti-Nazis and escape to fight with De Gaulle
Which French speaking inhabitants of Alsace were forced in the 1880s to speak German??? 98% spoke a German dialect and France conquered this German speaking region in the 17th century. Total bullshit what u r telling here that the inhabitants of this region weren’t Germans ethnically
@@joelp7665 98 % of the population of Alsace-Lorraine spoke Alemannic - a German dialect and standard German even before 1871. only the french speaking area of Metz with about 150.000 French speakers was added to the imperial territory as well, the rest was totally German and lived in cities like Straßburg, Kaysersberg, Mühlhausen, etc…. Not very French sounding… 😉
@@rw5961 by 1900 in the Imperial Territory of Alsace-Lorraine, only 86.8% spoke German and German dialect. And that's after 100 000 to 130 000 left for France. So idk where you pull that 98% figure. Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine
Speaking German is different than feeling German. They spoke Alsacian (which indeed looks more similar to German). But in Switzerland people also speak German, but don't consider themselves German.
Very good video sir. I learned about the conflict between France and Prussia in the 1870s in school back in the 1960s, but I was unaware of the French territory being taken over by the German empire.
Alsace is my favorite region of France. I've been going there for almost 30 years. I've been to a few weddings and a couple of christenings. Actually, I have a French "Alsatian" Godson! Unfortunately, people group Alsace and Lorraine together. However, they are very different! Hell, Alsace has its own language! It's basically a dialect of low German with a sprinkling of French... The practically speak the same German as those right across the Rhine in Kehl. In fact, there's a tram line that connects Strasbourg with Kehl now....Awesome place! Thanks for the report. I will be there soon!
This is wrong. Alsatian is neither an own language nor a Low German dialect. It's an alemannic dialect. Alemannic dialects in turn belong to the UPPER (southern) german group of dialects (others are austro-bavarian). Other alemannic dialects include Swiss German and Swabian, the latter of which is spoken in Württemberg and Southwest Bavaria (up to and including Augsburg)
Very good stuff Stefan.the language of Alsace & Lorraine wasn't always French or German , but local languages . Don't forget that in 1860s over 60% of the population of the French territoriy of Metropolitan France spoke other languages other than French: Flemish , Picard, Breton , Auvengat , Catalan , longadoc, Italian , Vogian, Provencal and many others. It was only with the introduction of universal centralised education in French that things began to change and the regional languages declined. Literacy in Britain was twice that of France in the 18th Century Bibles in Welsh were available in all Welsh established churches since the time of Elizabeth 1st and helped perpetuate the use of Welsh . This changed overtime with the migration of Engl , Cornish , Irish and Scottish people into Southr Wales , with mining , stell and metal working such as cooper smelting .keep up the good work . Merde a la Prusse.
Wrong! The local language as you call it was a German dialect which was understood by every German tribe. It was the French King Louis XIV who conquered (and bribed) Alsace-Lorrain for purely strategic reasons. Since then the French propaganda claimed the province to always have been French. A lie as obvious as the claim of the English on Northern Ireland.
On the other hand, Alsace was culturally German enough at one time to be caught up in the German Peasants' Revolt in 1525 or thereabouts, and Johann Fischart, a German satirical writer in the 16th century, was connected to Strasbourg. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Fischart
Interesting. I have just been watching the French TV series ‘Paris Police 1900’, in which a murder victim is a young woman originally from Alsace. Her son has to be taken into the German embassy for protection. The series is also set against the Dreyfus affair, and highlights the antisemitism prevalent in the upper echelons of French society.
So many of these episodes in history are just lost or not necessarily discussed because we don't have time for everything but it's great to see someone taking the time to share their knowledge. It would be interesting to narrate the thoughts of the people at the time who are probably now dead...but they would have been people who were born under one Empire and then faught under another and then died under a third one.
The Franco-German linguistic border running along and through Alsace-Lorraine, was reasonably clear cut. And there was strong feeling in Germany at the time that the German speaking area should be annexed from France. For example, one of Bismarck's aides Heinrich Abeken in a letter written in 1870 wrote:- "...the necessity of satisfying the moral feeling of the people through the return of these old parts of Germany. It would be a crime against the moral world order if the crime which France committed against these provinces were not atoned; it would be a crime against these lost children themselves if one did not lead them back, even against their will, to the true mother, the old home, if we decided to give them back again to the French stepmother and her corrupting influences. Not only our descendants, still more their descendants, will thank us for it, their children even, if we bring them up as Germans and start out right with it." However, to the German speaking area to be annexed, the Prussians added the French speaking town of Metz and the surrounding area, for military reasons, as Metz was an important fortress town and in a strategic location. Bismarck reportedly had been reluctant for the incorporation of Metz, but it was being insisted on by the military, though it's unclear whether Bismarck's hand had actually been forced by the military. Metz's fate had been uncertain in the peace negotiations, as indeed had that of Belfort (another French fortress town), but the German generals felt only Metz to be "indispensable". However, the inclusion of Metz made it impossible for the Prussians/Germans to claim that the annexation of Alsace-Lorraine was purely the reclamation of German speaking territory. So, Bismarck tended to portray the annexation as the addition of territory that was essential to the security of Germany, and hence to the peace of Europe (which was probably his actual view, as he expected France to attack Germany at some time in the future).
Those boyish militaristic aggressive "Prussian" views were paving the way for a catastrophy. Why not then annexing "German(ic)" parts of Swiss, Austria... Utter nonsense. The over-simplified "German speaking" view is not relevant. It's the old justification to Pangermanism. Second false justification : security reasons. End result in 1945 : 2 world wars, 60 million dead worldwide, Germany reduced to half of its 1871 size and having to face a perpetual moral shame.
@@jandron94 Bismarck himself was not a pan-German nationalist, and when he had the opportunity to seize German speaking parts of Austria after the Austrian defeat in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866, he chose to take nothing from Austria. Neither was the Prussian King that interested in being German Emperor (he eventually had to be arm-twisted to accept the title). But prior to the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian war, it was clear to Bismarck that the creation of a united Germany would arouse the fierce opposition of France, and as war with France was therefore inevitable, he would ensure the circumstances of any such war would bring about a Prussian victory. France of course had its own agenda, which was to ensure France remained the leading power in continental Europe. For France this meant therefore that the German states must remain weak and disunited, that if necessary the most powerful upcoming German state (Prussia) should be shown its place by humiliating them (diplomatically or militarily), and that the annexation of additional territories i.e. a chunk of the German speaking Rhineland, plus Belgium & Luxembourg, would round off the French Empire very well (and as we know, French Emperor Napoleon III had put some of these demands in writing and given them to Bismarck, who later published them). So, Prussia & France had conflicting agendas, but it was Bismarck who turned out to be the more skillful (or devious - depending on your point of view) diplomat, and Prussia who (unexpectedly) had the stronger & better led army. And once France had declared war, some accounts suggest it was Bismarck's view that a defeat for France by itself would guarantee future French enmity, whereas others suggest he took the view it would be the annexation of formerly French territory that would guarantee their enmity. So, there are conflicting accounts as to whether he was in favour or against the acquisition of Alsace-Lorraine, and if so, whether or not it should include Metz. Some accounts indicate he succumbed to pressure from the Prussian military, but at the same time, if he felt French enmity was guaranteed in any case, he would see there to be a necessity in having a buffer territory to a future French attack, such as Alsace-Lorraine. The Prussian leadership felt able to justify its annexation to the public, by pointing to its mainly German speaking population, and to the fact that the territory was once part of the mainly Germanic Holy Roman Empire prior to being seized by France, which itself had taken it by military conquest. The acquisition of this buffer territory was also important in reassuring the southern German states who were fearful of a future French attack if they were to join the new German Empire, by pushing the new Franco-German border back from the Rhine, and further away from them! As predicted, French enmity toward Germany following their defeat in the Franco-Prussian war (a war which France had declared), was deep and lasting. One can only speculate what would've happened had France won the Franco-Prussian war. But it seems very probable they would have imposed a solution which would have guaranteed an equal deep and lasting Prussian/German enmity toward France.
@@kwaobenti I don't tnink it all comes down to a "classic" who declared war first. Surely Prussia was on a aggressive expansion/domination path (the war with Danemark, the Austro-Prussian war). France had also gained recently territories (Nice, Savoy) but more like "compensations" for helping Italy achieving its unity. Indeed a clash or duel between France and Prussia was then most likely to happen. Bismark knew too well how disorganised, unpreapared for a massive modern continental war and easily divided France was (Napoleon III's power was on the wane, he had become an old and sick man). So one might argue that the responsabilities between the one who, as a long planned strategy, cunningly induced and provoked the war are equally shared with the one who ill-advised and foolishly suddenly declared it. More importantly what prevailed and has a lasting "legacy" I think its the brutality whith which it was conducted (especially on civilians, the Siege of Paris) and the will to humiliate France (German Empire proclamation in the Galerie des Glaces of Versailles, annexing parts of the territory). A lack of morality and brutality that would prevail even more in WW1 and WW2.
@@jandron94 I would not say that in 19th century Europe, either France or Prussia had any moral superiority over the other. Their situations however, placed them in direct rivalry with one another. There then came a point at which each country wanted war with the other (for the reasons I've outlined previously), and both expected to win. It was purely that these expectations were misguided on the part of the French, who were therefore complacent (some might describe their attitude, as one of arrogance, in that they believed the French army to be inherently superior, and they under-estimated their opponent). Therefore, the French eagerness for war did not have a sound military basis. You've mentioned various wars. As I've indicated, in my view there was an equivalence in the aims of Prussia and of France, and in their readiness to use assertive diplomacy, and to make war, it was simply that Bismarck was more adroit in bringing about situations, by diplomacy and by war, in which he was successfully able to realize his aims, more so than Napoleon III was. As I've already pointed out, Napoleon III wanted France to expand, and had his eye on acquiring the German Rhineland, as well as Belgium & Luxembourg, but his diplomatic strategies were unsuccessful. Yes, Prussia (along with Austria) fought a war against Denmark (a war in which both Prussia & Austria acted jointly, with the tacit support of France & Russia, and after Denmark had invaded Schleswig in contravention of an international agreement. It does not seem there was a formal declaration of war). Prussia then fought a war against Austria (a war which Austria declared). Then Prussia fought a war against France (which France declared). Does it matter who declared the war? Yes, very much so, as it was usually instrumental in determining whether either country fighting the war, would have allies. If a country declares war, it is that country that is perceived as the aggressor, and their opponent, the victim. The aggressor is likely to be spurned by other countries and will therefore be unlikely to have allies, whereas the victim is viewed sympathetically. All that Bismarck desired was that his opponent had no allies, and in this respect, he was always successful. It is also noteworthy that Bismarck wanted only short, sharp wars, and wished to impose relatively moderate & restrained terms on his defeated opponent. The terms he imposed on Austria after the Austro-Prussian war were so moderate, that Austria remained neutral in the Franco-Prussian war, and later went on to become Germany's only reliable ally. Were the terms imposed on France moderate & restrained? I've previously mentioned there are some accounts that point to Prussia's military leadership, and to other potential factors, in forcing Bismarck's hand. Though France was unhappy with the settlement, the land area it lost was small, and mostly German speaking, and France was able to pay their financial indemnity ahead of time, and then rapidly re-arm (much to Bismarck's dismay). Should the German Emperor have been proclaimed in Versailles? Was it humiliating to France? German leaders of the time would have seen such actions through the prism of earlier perceived humiliations against German states when invaded by France, e.g., under Napoleon I, or even under Louis XIV (the ceiling of the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles, celebrates Louis XIV as conqueror of German cities & states). Should the Prussian army have besieged Paris? Bismarck & Prussian military leaders viewed the capture of Paris as essential to winning the war. Obviously when a city is besieged, the forces on the outside know they are bringing about suffering for those on the inside, and usually want those on the inside to surrender as quickly as possible and know that if they fail to capture the city, they may lose the war. But the forces on the inside, also know that as long as they fight, their own people on the inside will suffer, and as soon as they surrender, though the suffering of their own people will be ended, their surrender will lead to the capture of their city. The forces of both sides are making choices that cause the civil population in the city to suffer, in order to obtain the outcome that they want. Both sides! Was Prussia on an "aggressive expansion/domination path"? Prussia under Bismarck was initially a medium power, surrounded by more powerful rivals (Austria, Russia, France). In order to secure Prussia's position, Bismarck wanted to make Prussian the leading power within the German states, which would then lead to German unification under Prussian leadership. He had no imperialistic or expansionist aims either in Europe, or globally, beyond that. Once in 1871 a united Germany had been brought about with the Prussian King declared Emperor, Bismarck's goal had been achieved. Thereafter, the new Germany under Bismarck made no war against anybody. In fact, Bismarck lost no opportunity to reassure Europe that Germany was now "satiated". Bismarck even began to be seen as an 'honest broker' in the disputes of others, and Berlin became a venue for peace conferences. Bismarck showed very limited interest in colonial acquisitions, France had a much larger colonial empire than Germany. Many German nationalists were frustrated by this 'quiet life' under Bismarck. It was not until a new Kaiser eventually took over (Wilhelm II), and Bismarck was dismissed in 1890, that Germany was embarked on a more outward looking foreign policy of seeking a global empire, with a 'sabre-rattling' diplomacy, and an expanded navy, which would change the way it was perceived and reacted to by other powers, and which contributed (along with many other factors) to WW1.
@@kwaobenti The problem I have with your narrative is that you totally disconnect Bismarck actions and legacy from what would occur later on (WW1 and WW2). And I could easily see you coming : "Germany had not choice but to carry out a preventive attack against France in WW1", in WW2: "it's France and Great-Britain that declared war to Germany". "If Napoleon had not...", "if Ludwig IV had not... (Ludwig who till today has a beautiful little town of his own in Germany "Saarlouis" !!! but not in France since the Revolution !!!). As for Germany's limited colonial Empire please take a look at geography : very little access to the Mediterranean and a bit limited one to the Atlantic. The 5 major colonial Empires (Portuguese-Spanish-French-English and Dutch) started in the very late 15th century... too early for "Germany". The only attempt by Germany of creating a colonial Empire of its own was in Eastern Europe with WW2 : a very nasty ugly affair (not that I condone any colonial empire). I know many Germans who would easily trade your laudated Bismarck glorious achievments of a "German Empire" against a less militaristic and cynical but more moral and democratic approach that would not have paved the way to the crimes commited by Germany in the 20th century. History is no cherry-picking : you have to assume the whole history of "great Germany" and not brush the ugly parts under the carpet. Maybe you stand too distant from the places were all those destructions and crimes were committed to ever feel the need of reconsidering your narrative.
Went there in 2016. It's a strange mix of French and German. I think if you took a poll it favours French rule yet there's sauerkraut and German cheeses.
American here, but I have ancestors from Lorraine. I think that after WWII, we should have given Lorraine to the French and Alsace to the then West Germany. If the French bitched about it, I would have told them, "too bad, you chickened out under the Vichy Regime, we wouldn't have lost so much blood on D-Day and in the hedgerows if you had held out. You had plenty of army left in the south and in North Africa. Go pound sand if you don't like it."
So childish and ignorant...what was the US doing in 194o against the Nazis, ah yes...businness, a lot of it. Thre french lost 90000 men defending their country in 1940 against an ennemy that took WAY more that US troops to be defeated.
@@Balrog2005 Thanks to General DeGaulle, whom the Vichy Regime declared a traitor and sentenced to death in absentia. BTW, how did that Maginot line work out?
@@jacqueslefave4296 Btw do you have any idea of what WWI was for the French, like Verdun, before doing cheap shots a the Maginot Line concept ? Read a little more...the Vichy Regime was America's first choice, especialy Roosevelt until late 1942..again maybe you didn't get all the memos, like the amercains were doing bussines with Nazi germany the year that France was invaded and a lot of those german-american groups were top-notch for the war effort, like the the one that made all those Opel Blitz trucks so important for germans logistics and used American techs. So your concept of justice is to give a milenary (if you had any idea of what your are talking about you know the difference between the Alsace-Moselle part annexed by Germany and the rest of Lorraine) piece of France to the Germans to thanks them for their agression, recipt for another great war, congratulations.
Elsaß is part of the ancient kingdom of Swabia, (Schwaben), inhabited by the Alamanni tribe, which still exists, and still speaks it's own "Black Forest" dialect. Elsaß certainly belonged in the newly united German Reich. The majority language was German, right up until the 1960s! Do "Metz", and "Strassburg" sound like French names?
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted. And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
@@HistoryHustle There is a clear difference between a political state, and a nation: A nation is genetic, linguistic, and cultural in nature. (The very word "nation" comes from "natural, and native"). The political state of 1871, is not interchangeable with the the phrase: "German Nation". If you wanted to unite all Germans in a single state, you would have to include Austria, most of Switzerland, The Netherlands, most of Belgium, most of Poland, half of Romania, and parts of Italy, Slovenia, and Croatia.
Many cities in germany, france, italy, spain, etc. Have names of celtic origin, does that mean thay ireland should annex them all? Should italy annex all territories inhabited by romance language speaking peoples?
@@SmashingCapital There exist territories, and lands from which millions of ethnic Germans were driven, as a result of lost wars. Cultures that once settled in undeveloped lands, and in the process, transformed them into major economic hubs, and in the process drained swamps, cut canals, built bridges, and laid railroads, should be recognized for the role they played in the history of these regions. Ethnic Cleansing, and expulsions that follow wars, are immoral and those cultures, once removed, should be allowed to return. That is all I am saying. Perhaps all state borders within Europe, should be abolished. I have no problem with that.
Actually, to the credit of the French - a large share of the communist fiercely opposed the assimilationist policies of thei government, going even to make speeches in German in front of the French national assembly to protest the treatment of Alsace-Lorraine !!!
At school in England during the 60s we were how oppressive life was for the Alsace Lorraine people under German rule. How they yearned to be returned to French rule. Then I went there and thought, we’ll this seems more German than French to me. Then I read the French people distrusted the loyalty of the AL people. How stories get twisted for propaganda purposes. In the 50s , (in primary school!) we were told not to use the word collaboration.
Of course they did not destroyed historic buildings of their "German" past ... Just like in England they have not destroyed old buildings of the Norman yoke... Also it did seem more German to you because you probably speak zero or very little French. The French did not distrust their loyalty except for a very few ones (like the ones who were part of the SS division that commited the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre in WW2).
olivier legendre I'd like to come back to what you said about the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's true there were a lot of Alsatians in the SS division Das Reich that was stationed in the south west of France. In 1944 the SS division Das Reich consisted of 15 000 newly recruited men. 9 000 were from Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Alsace and ex POW from the Soviet Union, the rest being Germans. 6 000 were from Alsace. The massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane was perpetrated by men of the 3rd Company of the Regiment "Der Führer", about 100 men of that Regiment in Oradour-sur-Glane that day, maybe a little bit more. My point is that I don't understand why people remember the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane as a massacre perpetrated by Alsatians whereas only 14 of them were on the site. 13 were forcibly conscripted, only one was a volunteer.
@@fantomasvsfantomas2288 I do not fully understand your numbers : 15 000 = 9000 + 6000 (all "the rest" are Alsatians ???) What was shocking for the French is that some Alsatians took part in it (against their own fellow-countrymen), that they were "malgré-nous" or not is another complicated debate. Anyhow the ones giving the orders were Germans.
@@jandron94 My numbers : out of 9 000 foreigners, 6 000 were Alsatians. What I mean is that 14 Alsatians in Oradour on a total of more than 100 men of other nationalities, that's not many.
I generally like your channel and content, but this one is severely biased. You could also ask: How was EL under the French Annexation? There were Germans AND French living in the Region, side by side, for Centuries. The French King Louis XVI went to add the Territory to France, and by the Time of the Franco-Prussian War (The French declared War btw), The Towns and Places still had German Names. Both sides claimed the Region, and over the Centuries it changed hands several times. It makes it such a strong Symbol of the European Union, that Strasbourg/Strassburg is now (among Brussels, another Border Mess between Flemish and French) the Seat of the EU.
Thanks for your reply. "You could also ask: How was EL under the French Annexation? " Yes, but that's simply not the scope of this video. Where in the video did I stay the region should or should not be German. This is how the history unfolded. You can agree or disagree on it. I have a pragmatic stance on this. It is what it is. And let's not wage (another) war over it.
Why don't you ask to the local population which side they prefer or not to belong to ? This is not a desert island ! They can think by themselves as did their ancestors. Though it might "hurt" your German(ic) pride you have to make do with their preference (unless you don't believe in democratic values and self determination).
@@jandron94 I suppose back then they generally would have preferred to not join (or be joined) neither side. After all, there were plenty of autonomous Regions all over, with mixed populations, e.g. Luxembourg, Switzerland, Belgium. As for your assumption on my "Germanic Pride", I am happy to inform you that I am well versed in History, and I am very aware that there never was a single Germany, but opposing Tribes, States, Dukedoms, etc. My Mother comes from Masuria, where Poles and Germans settled side by side, but neither accepted them as Prussian nor Polish. Settlers there went there in the 1700s because they were Lutheran. And the Borders shifted several times during the Lifetimes of my Grandparents and those before. IMHO it does not matter what we pick as Nationality, it is all mixed anyway. I am about half Eastern European, a Quarter German and Skandinavian. At this point I prefer to be simply European. I understand though, French Pride is strong. Although, as late as the 1940s, the different French Provinces did not like each other very much either.
You speak of Elsaß-Lothringen as if it were a French land - a tiny number of French speakers existed (around 2%) when it was part of the second reich. There were very few Frenchmen in this supposedly rightfully French land. German is still the majority language there today.
Alcatian is a language that's is similar to Germany. Yet, most of them today feel French. Take a look at Switserland. In one part they do speak German, but do they feel as such? No.
Interestingly the French have finally decided to act by cutting the region, removing the Alsace name completely in 2016 and combining the region to other two French ones so it's now Grand Est, sad for their varied identity and culture...
It's mainly an administrative reorganisation. Regions in France have very little power compared to Germany, Italy or Spain. People in France are still much more attached to be governed and administrated by the nation rather than by the region they live in. Also in region their is a sublevel named "departement" that people usually also identify themselves strongly with.
Getting close to 100k subscribers!!! I’ve been watching since ~30k subscribers and contribute on Patreon. Love the content, you do a super job, keep up the good work!
It’s interesting to see the german style in architecture, wine and food in the villages around Colmar. Rhein is supposed to be the border today, but people could easily pass over the river for hundreds of years so the water was no effective border for the culture. Going by car through Munster, up in the Vosges and Col de la Schlucht, things change fast. The german black and white timber framed houses disappear and in Gerardmer it becomes grey stone houses in typical french style. Obviously the mountains have been more difficult to pass in ancient times and been a natural border. People in Alsace speaks often alsacienne with each other, and french with foreigners. They show no signs of longing to become germans. The partisan movement was strong in Alsace during the nazi occupation, but it was probably not a question of being french or german, but because they didn’t like Nazis.
The people in Alsace are 2 million, maybe only at best a third of them can speak some German... Also in the past one might not speak the "national" language of France but still profoundly feel attached to this country. That's the history of France : Bretons, Corsicans, Basques, Catalans, Alsatians, Mosellans, Flemings...
I know that early in WWI units of the French Army made a short incursion into somewhere in this region, some of the older ethnic French cheered them in, the Germans observed it with raised eyebrows, and when they heard that German army units were on their way, being of insufficient numbers and lacking significant artillery, they quickly evacuated. The cheering Francophiles we're ratted out, and the reprisals we're unspeakably violent when the German soldiers arrived.😱
Interesting topic, but I hope this presentation is not the new normal for History Hustle, where context is ignored and viewpoints imbalanced. The historical background of these territories is quite interesting, yet complicated, but leaving this out and portraying anti-Prussian examples as anti-German betrays the appearance of an agenda. Although in 1871, Alsace was culturally German and Lorraine French, their annexation provided practical military value for protecting the new German nation from further French aggression, but you left out the rationale for the annexation. From the German perspective, the French kingdom had invaded German-speaking lands through these lands at least a dozen times over the prior centuries, so it would’ve been almost suicide politically for Bismarck to forego the annexation of any German-speaking lands, let alone the fortress of Metz in Lorraine, which the General Staff insisted on. Their mistreatment by Prussian aristocrats is well-covered, but I really like it when you provide fair and balanced context to understanding opposing views, not the opposite.
Thanks for your critical reply and additional information. And no, this won't be the new standard. The on-location vids are most of the time shorter and on top of this: this video is an overview video. I just made it because I found it fun to make. Didn't fully dive into it as I do with other topics.
@@HistoryHustle I did not think the video was imbalanced or appeared to have an agenda. The context of the video was the experience of Alsace-Lorraine as a German territory. There will always be a critic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in this particular case, I find it baseless. Bravo on a job well done, in my opinion.
@@HistoryHustle Appreciate your frankness, which explains the impression of something missing, unlike your previous episodes. If you are able to expand upon this topic, then suggest adding an episode on how French policy affected the culture of German speaking Alsatians after reincorporation in 1945. Keep up the great work!
@@ppalchinsky8301 It wasnt reincorporation afetr 1945 it was reannxation of a liberated territory. It was original german when france and Germany split in 843 and 100% germany speaking to include Lothringian. So this must be the starting point. After centuries the first annexations by France happened.. An intellectually honest historian therefore will always call them and it is those ANNEXATIONS... undoing the French annexations will therefore always be a liberation no matter how mismanaged and no matter how successful the previous cultural destruction committed by the French over the centuries was.
The HRE was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that was came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switserland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense.
Ironic, isn't it. Prussian militarism created a version of Germany that included Alsace-Lorraine - after expelling the Germans of Tyrol, Austria, Bohemia and Moravia - but then lost Alsace-Lorraine, West Prussia, Schleswig and Posen, before going on to lose East Prussia, Hinterpommern and Silesia. Weighing it all up, it didn't go terribly well.
A Bonus Monday video, what a nice surprise! Alsace-Loraine and it’s history are fascinating. Can’t wait to hear about the short lived state. It looked really cold there, hope you hustled straight to a cafe after filming for some coffee❤️🔥
Bonus Monday indeed. I do have some extra content on my sleeve: also to get the 100K in 2021. Strasbourg had many lovely cafes! I was there last autumn.Thanks :)
Les Marseillaise was composed in Strasbourg it can't get more french than that. Edit: Alsace-Moselle the northern part of Lorraine which was annexed to Germany during Franco-Prussian war maintains some laws the Laïcité or Secularism doesnt apply in the region when separation of church and state happened in France at the time the region was under German control the president of France appoints the bishop in Strasbourg and other religious leaders that receive salary from the state , churches, synagogues are maintained and built with the support from the Government and a much more expensive social security system and cover wider social services and the pension system actually makes money for some reason.
My family came from the area in 1872. The Lueckel's. Settling in Tell City / Cannelton IN working in the mills. I've always wondered about where they came from, and what it was that made them leave. Thank you for the education.
Maybe they did not want to be under Prussian rules like the ancestor of Ms J K Rowling who immigrated to London (check "who do you think you are" where BBC traced her ancestry to Alsace). Like 1000s of Alsacien who went to France, Algeria too. In Champagne many wine growers came from Alsace, hence you have Germanic names amongst famous champagne brands.
@@HistoryHustle Thanks for reaching out and, of course, the great video. So overall you would say that Alsace-Lorraine did not welcome German rule? Most of the Alsatians would have preferred to stay with France?
Lol the amount of pro German people in the comments is ridiculous. I'm from Hagenau in northern Alsace, and we're very much french. Yes, we recognize and respect the Germanic aspects of our history, culture, and regional dialect, but we are foremost PROUD & HAPPY to be French 🇲🇫🇲🇫🇲🇫
@@HistoryHustle : you can't ignore the diversity of opinions and I am saddened that you side with a side that may not respect international norms regarding the treatment of linguistic minorities
Learn about the FORGOTTEN Siege of Strasbourg (1870):
ruclips.net/video/i3q3p5M3RSU/видео.html
I think there is something magical about Alsace-Lorain! I don't know why?
Excellent video as usual. It's been a while since I looked in, so I have plenty of your videos to catch up on. I'm presently absorbed in a project based on the British retreat from Mons in August 1914.
Presumably the Alsatians see themselves as Alsatians and then as French. And they have the same identity with their country as the Bretons
More on the Alsace Soviet Republic: ruclips.net/video/18-MTXdwz4c/видео.html
@@yvonneemmert9185 The land of Joan of Arc?
Great video, as always. However, I find it a bit said that the struggle of especially Alsacian culture was not explained in a little more detail. Historically, today´s Alsace was mainly German-speaking since the early middle ages, following the westwards-movement of Germanic tribes into the Gallic region. This is why most of the city names are German: Straßburg (road castle), Mülhausen (Mill house), and so on. The French versions of these names still show the German heritage. The distinct dialect spoken in Alsace was Alsacian, a version of middle and high Alamannic, very similar to the dialects spoken today in the German region of Baden and in northern Switzerland. French cultural influence and assimilation properly began in the late 17th century, when king Louis XIV of France conquered the region that had belonged to the Habsburgs before. However, most people continued to speak German as their mother tongue even under French rule, but they developed a certain sense of national pride for France in the following two centuries under French control. Fun fact: the French linguistic influence not only affected Alsacian German, but even the Alamannic dialects in today´s South-Western Germany: A dialect version of "hello" in Alamannic is "salli",coming from the French greeting "salut". During the French revolution, many Alsacians served in the revolutionary army and many famous French military commanders were from the region.
Only when France regained control of Alsace-Lorraine after WW1, the French actively began enforcing their language upon the mostly German-speaking population of Alsace-Lorraine, in order to properly integrate the region into France and to eradicate any German identity or allegiance, which they saw as a threat (for a good reason, regarding what happened in Germany just afterwards). Unfortunately, these anti-German policies, which continued after the end of WW2, meant that today mostly old people still speak their German dialect, and a whole linguistic branch of the German language and therefore a rich local culture is about to go practically extinct, since there is little interest by the French authorities to preserve the regional German customs and languages they tried so hard to get rid of. I used to live seven kilometres away from the French border in South-Western Germany and my late grandfather had many friends from Alsace with whom he spoke German. Unfortunately, their children and grandchildren do not know how to speak this language anymore.
Important footnote: Before a discussion starts about this: I do not claim that at any point in history ALL of Alsace-Lorraine was German-speaking. The easternmost regions of Alsace and about half of Lorraine were and still are predominantly French-speaking; the regions´ borders never properly adhered to the linguistic borders. For example, the region around Metz in Lorraine, even in Medieval times and later under German control, were French-speaking. Alsace-Lorraine always was a linguistic border-region and therefore there were many German- and French-speaking communities neighbouring each other, as well as many bilingual communities, therefore drawing a clear language line is virtually impossible. This intermixing of the two languages and cultures is what makes the region so incredibly rich in history and so fascinating to study.
Indeed. The entire process of thrashing about in search for clearly delineated ethno-lingual demarcations was a desperate and messy project, ‘ solved ‘ by the Prussians and their Nazi successors simply by paying no attention to such ‘ trivial ‘ concerns.
In recent times, the Muslim Bosniak populace has been exposed, particularly in eastern and northern Bosnia, to indescribably revolting persecution by self-styled Serb ‘ nationalist ‘ sadists and sundry other thugs and utter lunatics, in spite of the local dialects of ‘ Serbo-Croat ‘ employed by the victims bearing a far greater semblance to what might be heard in Belgrade as opposed to the streets of Zagreb or Split.
An excellent posting. Stephan could do a whole video about this subject.
Good, well informed comment.
I have a friend who comes from Alsac. He is 60 and bilingual, but he said his father only speaks german at home.
The "intermixing" of languages only occurred after it was annexed by the French in 1648 when Germany was near destroyed by the 30 year war. This is not something to celebrate. when Franc and germany split into 2 countries in 843 it wa 100% german and only annexed to france on centuries of french imperialisms.
More than 90% percent of people in Alsace spoke German. The way it was presented in the Video one might think the people all spoke French.
Actually, Alsatian looks very German.
@@HistoryHustle not how you present it in this video !
@@HistoryHustle Alsatian IS is a German Alemannic dialect just like Swabian. Like all other dialects in areas that weren't inhabited by a Saxon or Frankish majority, after having completed the 2nd loud shift in the middle ages that separated High German from all other Germanic languages (including Low German!), all Allemannic dialects including Alsatian are per definitionem archetypes of High German dialects, I would say: "Plus Allemand, tu meurs!"
Nothing but political correct history teaching. "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past".
George Orwell, 1984
I live in Strasbourg and that's not true .
The lands were origininally mainly "Germanic" in culture and language but they were gradually annexed by France from the middle, to the end, of the 17th century. Two hundred years later they were taken over by Germany and then back to France in 1918, then back to Germany in 1940 and have been ruled by France since 1945. However a few more swaps are needed before they come close to the history of Berwick, on the English/Scottish border. It has changed country 14 times, so far.
And it's on the wrong side of the border now
No, Lorraine was NOT Germanic, but Polish until 1760!
@@emmanueldidier321 Ah, Didier, then Ukraine is also Polish...We are not talking about 'Political' entities, we are talking about Language, culture, cuisine, and ethnic history. You might as well say the Congo was Belgian. As Tarkovsky once said to a man who made a silly point, You are a very stupid man.
@@emmanueldidier321 Poland was at some point also ruled by a german -> August the strong.
@@emmanueldidier321 It may have been under a ruler whose roots were Polish, but it was never "Polish" in our sense of the term-it was never populated by Poles, nor was it ever part of the native Polish culture. Your comment is invalid.
So many people have passed away shaping the history we know today or maybe we stand unaware. Thank You Stephon ✌️
Cheers 👍👍
I am of Alsatian heritage. When Louis XIV took over the region, my ancestors fled. While a united Germany didn't exist at the time, my ancestors knew they were German ... and not French. We've been in America a long time now, but we still identify as German, and I still see Elsass and Lothringen as a French-occupied part of Germany. What I find so disconcerting is, no matter the circumstances or situation, history always seems to favor the French. Love your channel ... this one just touched a nerve.
well said
Winners write history
the sad truth about Germany is that is borders with itself...besides land in France, half of the land that Poland owns today is former German, Czech Republic also owns a lot of German land etc.
This happens in history.
- Around 800 the Elbe river still formed the border between German and Slavic peoples, before the Germans crossed the river and settled east of it.
- Until 1864 South Slesvig had been Danish for > 1000 years (it never belonged to the Holy Roman Empire).
It was probably an error to annex Alsace and Moselle (we should not call the territory "Alsace-Lorraine" or "Elsass-Lothringen" anymore, as the Reichsland did actually not contain even half of any historical region named Lorraine or Lothringen or Lotharingia) in 1871 without any plebicite or other kind of justification.
you speak true
Alsace-Lorraine, a bordering area between Germany and France, was more German than French to begin with. It was originally part of the Holy Roman Empire, and its inhabitants were not only more of a German stock ethnically but also spoke a dialect that resembled the German rather than the French language. The chronically weak and enervated HRE, however, was unable to fend off the territorial ambitions of a unified and far more powerful and advanced France of that time, hence this area was formally and forcibly annexed by France after the Thirty Years' War. Thus it is of complete justification that a unified and resurgent German Empire took back its own old land from an arrogant and invidious French Empire after defeating the latter in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870 when France attempted to unjustly prevent the German people's natural right for reunification by not only occupying Alsace-Lorraine continuously but also holding a few other small Southwest German states as its vassals. Justice was served by the fair and rightful German re-inclusion of the inherent German territories into the bosom of the German motherland. Let the truth be known!
People always focus on 1870 and later. The history of this area for the 1000 years before is ignored. A little Corsican, who started a few wars, and the French kings wanted the area for its rich resources.
In regards to Lorraine it is not quite true: the Duchy of Lorraine was indeed part of the HRE but does not correspond to the Lorraine territory annexed by the Germans. The two biggest cities, Metz and Thionville, were never part of the Duchy of Lorraine. Metz became french very early (1552), and the second most important city of that territory, Thionville, was part of the spanish Netherlands until it became french in 1659.
The language spoken in northern Lorraine was not German but a dialect close to Luxembourgish which is as old as latin and which inspired german, but not the other way around.
Well, l'Alsace-Lorraine is mostly the ancient territory of "Lotharingie" in Clovis and Charlemagne age, many Frankish tomb was discovered so before The HRE these region was in fact in "french territory" and with the treaty of Verdun that split Charlemagne empire in 3 parts one become HRE and other part France.
The people are not more german than french cause they all part of the same kingdom at the begin.
@@nerevarindoril3435 Frankish kingdom does not equal French. Frankish is a Germanic tribe which has its representation in both France (West Frankish) and Germany (East Frankish) . In addition, in your logic, all three nations of France, Germany, and (Northern) Italy were all part of the same ancient kingdom, which however has no relevance to the fact of territorial dispute between the later nation states of France and Germany. So what you argued is pointless.
@@LaemRinkee The fact that Metz became French territory very early does not mean it became French justifiably. It is still more German than French ethnically, linguistically and naturally. The fact that Thionville, for all its French sounding name, being part of the Spanish Netherlands is also redolent of its German rather than French nature, as Netherlands itself was originally part of the Holy Roman Empire, only to seceded from it later. The fact that the language spoken in Northern Lorraine is close to the so-called Luxembourgish and inspired German is at best irrelevant to the gist of the argument here, if not actually indicating its stronger ethnic German than French nature.
In the movie "Sorrow and the Pity" there is an interview with a family from Alsace. They specifically say, in German, they preferred to be German. There were no subtitles when this was said.
Thanks for sharing this.
Exept on the eastern front .. malgré nous ...
Germany has forever been Europe's misfortune.
@@badgerostripey-one6734 I think you mean England.
@@tylerhiggins3522 No. Germany performed the first genocide of the 20th century 1906-08, massive atrocities in France and Belgium 1914 before the trenches were dug. Inhumane practices in East Africa and the Solomon Islands. Germany helped out the Turks in the Armenian massacre in 1915 and showed them how to perfect the killings, then, skipping the Spanish Civil War and Guernica, their crowning infamy, 1939 - 1945, the Holocaust and other crimes too numerous to mention. The Germans can never be trusted not to revert to what they were at the time of the Romans and the 30 Years War. They must always be closely watched or they will do it again. Something went wrong in their double helix.
I was for two times in Alsace and I observed that it still remains practically an German territory. The people and names of towns are by far German. And this after over 75 years of cultural cleansing made by the French authorities. After 1945 the Alsacians could not have any kindergarten, elementary schools and no German language used in their universities. Just the last few years, some kindergarten were allowed to exist.
That's bullshit, cultrual cleansing ? Our constitution (broadly-meant) guarantees the local identities. Source : french, lived in Metz.
@@TheCyricSun Read carefully what I wrote. Identity is kept through family, public education and instruction. Only due to the family education and cultural heritage, the German based culture has been kept alive. The French state forbid any kind of public education and instruction in German language, since 1945.
@@TheCyricSun In Lorraine is something different, the French character is stronger there. Metz is not an French word.
@@TheCyricSun More, the Alsace -Lorraine problem is SPECIFIC and NOT broadly ment, as you wrote.
@@MyCarmenus it's literally the opposite. Metz, and Lorraine as a whole, is much more French than Alsace.
It all sounds a bit repressive but to put it into context France and French speakers have done exactly the same in French Flanders where hardly anyone speaks Dutch now, and likewise in Wallonia where the Walloon language has been completely eradicated.
A great shame.
The French are experts at eradicating their own distinct European dialects, languages and ethnicities
and with theyr bretons
The french always where the most imperalistic empire in europe and their deepest wish was to extent to the rhine
@@Alex-dc3xp The French Republic has promoted the use of French for compulsory public schooling and developed a national feeling. The gradual disappearance of regional languages is a concomitant fact. Better to speak French and be educated than to speak your native dialect and be illiterate. This is the challenge of the French republic at the end of the 19th century.
Historians tend to forget that Alsace-Lorraine was annexed by France during the rein of Louis XVI. Local parlance is a German dialect and economic ties have also been quite close to Germany.
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense.
Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted.
And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
Edit : "Louis XIV". This region was annexed by France during the reign of Louis XIV.
@@HistoryHustle , I am from Strasbourg, Alsace has a rich and complex history like its inhabitants, of course, today many feel French and how could it be otherwise since we grew up with hatred and ignorance of our past and our origins. I was not aware of this richness of dual culture until my military service when French people from the interior called me "dirty Boshe". My great-grandparents died in 1980, they always refused to speak French. my grandmother just died 8.4.1924-1.1.2023. She has lived through history and suffered the political decisions of each other without any claim, only one thing is certain and important.. the Alsatian language .🇮🇩Elsass 🇮🇩 « So let's swear on our flag
You my brothers, from the Vosges to the Rhine
Never shall a foreign hand seduce us
We will always be faithful to Alsace »
France in 1648: "It's annexation time."
France in 1871: *surprised Pikachu face*
Ok.
I'm an American of half German descent. My great grandmother on my moms side, her family came from the Alsace Lorraine region. They were German, but they came to the states long before Alsace Lorraine was apart of the German Empire. So, they were a part of the ethnic German minority that lived in French Alsace Lorraine.
Thanks for your reply.
There is no „French Alsace-Lorraine“ before WW2 it was German for over 1000 years, look at the street and place names everywhere in the area, only because the carried out ethnic cleansing and Germans are nowadays suppressed by the French government, doesn’t make the region French, whoever told you this nonsense is a liar.
Thank you! My ancestors came from Alsace-Lorraine. So much blood has been shed for dominance in Alsace-Lorraine. So many were Huguenot! This was also a problem for this region for centuries.
Now it's peaceful luckily. Thanks for replying.
a lot hugenotts came to swisse. and parts of elsass was with the other cantons in the „eidgenossenschaft“, Napoleon took it away from the bound when he took controll as far as i know. the hugenotts gave us a lot technology, that started to help switzerlqnd to be developped.
sometimes i visit Elsass, and in the regions where Elsacien did not extinct, i can communicate with them in Swissgerman. (most of those dialects are part of the Allemanic language, wich is a own german language group). And simmilar to regions in Switzerland are some Regions bilingual. after the second word war some where thinking to give it to switzerland. i think they not even wanted it…. what a shame. The billingual character and the meany allemanic speakers would have been well preserved, as we have all of those languages. These Days i think allemanic is about to extinct…. in generall the older the people are, the better they speak allemanic
@@viddl8267 Thank you for your comments. I think the religious persecution and constant border wars drove my ancestors to leave their village of Postroff to come to America.
In 1648 the Sundgau, southernmost part of Alsace was annexed by France, 1681 Strassburg was occupied. In 1766, after the last duke of Lorraine died, this territory was added to France.
These changes in favor of France were accepted by the Germans. But the French did not accept their loss of 1871.
Thats the point from which the modern dispute started.
@@viddl8267 The Hugenots were very good at papermaking, which may not sound like much these days but it was a really big deal. A Hugenot, Vaughban, was the inventor of the "Vaughban Star", probably the highest technological development that fortresses ever received before the invention of steel reinforced concrete. The Hugenots we're deeply betrayed and ruthlessly persecuted by Louis XIV when he revoked the Edict of Nantes, which had been a religious toleration edict.😢
Parts of my family are originally from Altkirch/Oberelsaß for hundreds of years. Yet my great grand parents had been expelled after WWI. Nobody ever cared about this unjustice.
German expulsions after WW1, interesting topic. Haven't heard much from it.
Im a french, and i like when people other countries speaking of the french history, I underdted so that people are interesting by that party of history, thanks
Thanks for your reply. Next week(s) more on Alsace!
Thanks Sir for this episode. Really interesting to know about Alsace Lorraine after the Franco-Prussian war.
Can't wait for the episode of Alsace Lorraine Soviet Republic.
Thanks as always, Milan!
Maybe you should report a bit in detail the "Alsacian present". The German origin dialect is dying out and even the identy of the region itself is disappearing as well, especially since it has been renamed (Grand Est).
France recently combined several areas into larger regions. Alsace was supposed to be semi Autonomous region, but was attached to the new region of Grand Est. Many people in Alsace are still fighting this decision.
Interesting to read.
The French State doesn't except other languages within their orders.
@jonnyneace8928
It was part of the Holy Roman Empire (German speaking), before it became part of France in the 17th century (after war). It is a lie that there was no German dialect before 1871.
Up until the 19th century, Germany had been on the receiving end of French expansionism, culminating during the reign of Napoleon I. Alsace-Lorraine used to be German through and through, definitely in the case of Alsace, less so in the case of Lorraine. However, by 1871 people there had come to embrace French culture and many considered themselves French (albeit German speaking). Subsequently, they experienced the German annexation as a foreign occupation and not as the long-awaited return to the German motherland, as the Germans had hoped. And since Alsace-Lorraine was governed directly from Berlin, they got to experience unfiltered Prussian militarism (exemplified in the Zabern Affair, which was started by a loudmouthed, arrogant 20 year old Prussian Lieutenant).
Perhaps the Lieutenant wanted to emulate the Kaiser and his Daily Telegraph Affair,.
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsacian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted.
And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
I enjoyed that, Stephan. You spoke more slowly and I could take it what you said. I like the passion with which you deliver your videos and I learn a lot. Thanks.
Thanks for your reply, Lawrence.
I didn't know much more than that Germany and France sometimes had 'trammelant' about that area. Thanks for the lesson, teach!
Groet'n from Groningen 🌷, T.
Bedankt, T.!
Great video. I have ancestors from that area. After doing a family tree, all the first names were French and the last names were German. I guess they weren’t taking any chances
Thank you for replying, Stacey!
This is a sign of forced franconization. First names are easy to change as a sign of adaption ( submission?) to forced cultural change whereas last names are much more difficult as family names are on deeds, church records etc.
@@elizabethmiller7918 not forced francization people naturally gave those names. A good illustration of that is that during the almost 50 years of German presence they never stop giving French names.
@@tonyhawk94 A people under cultural dominance will assimilate first by giving culturally acceptable first names. Its a well know phenomenon of both assimilation or culturicide. Anytime you see a region with last names of one nation and first names of another a form of culturicide is occuring (or has occured). I am neither german nor French but truth matters and those who are the product of this conditioning would do well to drop it like an old coat.
@@elizabethmiller7918 oh my god stop using dumb words like "culturcide" because it means that one did something intentionally to the other. The alsatian people gave French name to their children naturally and themselves became French progressively. You seem no to have any comprehensionnof what history is.
Maybe you wanna talk about the fact that Alsace was initially Gallo-Roman and that Strasbourg should be called Argentoratum because the Alamans committed a culturicide ? Grow up.
Thank You for this Video Stephan, I feel like this isn't a much discussed subject.
You're welcome!
You know more about the history of these regions than the inhabitants of these regions themselves ^^ Thank you from an Alsatian who is passionate about history
Thanks for your reply!
Few remarks, some part of Elsaß-Lothringen.
It is Wackes not waker!
It is a legend made that all Alsacians were send to Easter front , all my grand fathers fougth in battles against the french!
But good work!
You also forgot some important points about 1911 with the constitution and 1918 full autonomy offered by Berlin! The economy boomed, new banking that still exist today as credit mutuel! And also the culture finally got emancipated with strengh positivly. Straßburg got much bigger and gain and very serious university, a lot of new jundgenstil architecture.
Thanks for replying!
So did your grand parents resettle in Germany after WW1 or did they stay in France ? If they stayed in France did they feel ok with becoming French ?
Also at that time prosperity was quite good in France.
Alsace and Lorraine are very different historically: Lorraine was an independent dukedom belonging to the King of Poland until 1760, when Stanislas gave it to Louis XVth as dowry to his daughter Maria Leczinska when she became queen of France.
There is a difference yes. I adress that in the future.
*Maria Leszczyńska
Well at that time he was then no longer the King of Poland...
In Alsace-Lorraine
Language
- 88% German
- 12% French
Religion
- 76% Catholic
- 19% Lutheran
- 3% Reformed
- 2% Jewish
Ok.
I can’t believe this ……where did you get these facts.
Nowadays, almost no one speaks German in Alsace especially the younger generation
Try to speak German in Strasbourg, that’ll be a laugh
@@Bruno-tm3xo a lot of people understand German here
I live in Strasbourg
These numbers are from Alsace-Lorraine 1900, not from today
@@arnaudhartmann5236 would be worth mentioning and I would agree with these figures.
. I am half German……and French…..so trust me when I say that by and large, even if they understand it, I know very few people who are fluent in German…..especially among young people. The level is the same as for Parisian waiters in Paris.
And I find it sad…….for them. Mastering several languages in life is a huge bonus and living in a region where the culture is more Germanic than Latin one would think people jump from one language to the other like it has been the case for me.
Annexed is a bit inprecise word, more recorporated onto the Reich. E.L was annexed by the French in the 17th century, the Names of Cities and Architecture up to thes time are heavely influenced by german culture.
It doesn't mean it belong to Prussia in the first place haha. Prussia indeed annexed Alsace and Moselle. Just like the French started after the 30 years war (treaty of Westphalia).
@Jokolo I say it because as the video mention, Alsace was put under direct control of the central state therefore Prussia (but to beore accurate under the Kaiser's thumb).
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense.
Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate?
And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
@@HistoryHustle Well, its true, the HRE incorporated many non germanic areas, Burgundy, Northern Italy, Bohemia etc. and was no nation state but a loose confederation. Those areas certainly can´t be considered as German by todays definition. From my point of view a German is somebody who speaks "A" german tongue and shares a certain culture. And with this i don´t mean just Standart High German, because its a artificial invention from the time of reformation. By this definition Alsacians, Luxemburgians, Austrians, South Tyrolians are Germans by ethnicity, not by nation. The german speaking Swiss call themself Deutschschweizer and refer to their romanesque fellow citizens traditionaly as Welsche( related to Wales, meaning something foreign). So in a certain sense they are also Germans, despite beeing de facto politicaly independent from HRE since 14th ct. The problem is that more centralistic non germanic majority states like France in Italy were or still are eager to erase the german identiy of their anexed regions. South Tirol gained some cultural autonomy(bilingual school curiculum, etc) after massive resistance of locals against italianization in the 60s. In the case of Alsace Loraine i fear it might be to late. The local dialect and identity are on a spiral downward and its just a question of time till Alsacian see themself as common Frogs. Therefore they should get certain autonomy and protected minority status, something like the Danish minority and the Sorbs in Germany have.
So the Alsacians were not just the "malgré-nous" in WW2. They were from the very beginning of the Kaiserreich.
I see!
Alsatians nowadays are very French, but it might have been worth mentioning that they started
out as Germans until one day in the 18th century, (correct me if I'm wrong), the French army walked
in and annexed it for France.
it was a process over centuries. 1648 when the most important town of the region was annexed to france (Strassburg) and when most agree the annexation was complete.
It was the 17th century.
Strasbourg itself was conquered by France in 1681.
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsacian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense. Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted.
And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve. I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
Your channel is a real jewel, love watching your stuff. Call me a stickler, but one of your episodes isn’t complete unless I hear the words, “I’m hustling history… for you!”
You got it Paul. Thanks!
A few years ago,(20 maybe) there was a meeting between the last British soldier of WW1 and the last of the Kaisers soldiers. The 'German soldier' was a French man from Alsace-Lorraine.
Interesting 👍
There has been long term overlap of Germans into Alsace. I visited a cemetery in Alsace ~ 2000 and was shocked by how many Schmidts who were buried there. I was also surprised by how many locals who initiated verbal communications with me in German vs. French.
Thanks for sharing.
I’ll keep saying Elsaß Lothringen anyway
Ok.
My aunt was Alsacian. After ww2 my uncle took part in rebuilding the steel mills in Luxenborg, there he met and married my aunt. She was a Germaqn Luthern but she always seemed French to me, a little kid. I wish she were still here, she had some interesting stories about German occupation and the crulety of the SS.
Thanks for sharing.
Its incredible how much history Alsace - Lorraine has and how it shaped western europe. ever since lotheringa its been an area that has been disputed for more than a millenia .
The idea that Alsace Lorraine was disputed through all ages is wrong.
For some decades it was indeed disputed in the 9th and beginning 10th century.
In 1648 France annexed the
The idea that Alsace Lorraine was disputed through all ages is wrong.
For some decades it was indeed disputed in the 9th and beginning 10th century.
In 1648 France annexed the
@@rudolfkraffzick642 Not realy , its been disputed for centuries , even up till the Franco prusian war. and ww1 . it schanged more hands than a woman changes shoes.
A disputed area it was.
@@HistoryHustle And also an area that is now a major part of binding the EU. As strasbourgh is now one of the 3 major capitols .
Awesome video, greetings from Alsace-Lorraine
Cheers!
alsace-lorraine is a very beatiful region greetings from germany
Excellent synopsis of the interwar era in the Alsace-Lorraine region, Professor! Its no small wonder Alsatian recruits were thus bidden off to the Eastern Front, or the Imperial Navy! Definitely, the German 2nd reich had failed to incorporate the people into their nation.
Many thanks for sharing this.
@@HistoryHustle , Always a pleasure to add to the wee corners of the ancient conflict of Charlemagne's three sons-three kingdoms mistake into the 19th-20th century sir!
@ger du , spot on. 👍 Alsace-Lorraine was the territorial hockey-puck since then.
Actually not. It had economical reason for the protest. And secondly at the beginning of the 20th century many people wanted to be part of Germany just for economical reasons, which were better than in France.
In WWII Alsatians were forced into the Waffen-SS. My great uncle served as a conscript in the SS.
My Grandmother was from an old Alsatian family and spoke German and French. She moved to the German side of the Rhine after WW2. She was unhappy with the French government suppression of the Alsatian dialect.
My great grand father was an immigrant from Lorraine born in 1868 and from what I was told always considered himself French. His wife great grand mother was born in Alsace in 1872 and had a German birth certificate. My great grand father became a US citizen but not my great grand mother. During WWI she had to register as an enemy alien even though she like her husband considered themselves French.
Thanks for your reply.
You are talking like the people there were speaking french, but in fact 90% of them were speaking german, but in fact there was only a conflict between catholic civilans and prorestant prussia.
Speaking German is different than feeling German. They spoke Alsacian (which indeed looks more similar to German). But in Switzerland people also speak German, but don't consider themselves German.
@@HistoryHustle I know just wanted to point out that not all of them would learn a new language.
Thank you for taking your time and answering :)
@@HistoryHustle : You come a bit closer to the reality but let me be more precise. I will try to keep it short. Before the German Empire, German was largely understood as ethno-lingustic characteristic - so not in the sense of forming a nation-state. Alsatians and people from frankish Lorraine identified to this. The formation of the German empire and German being used as adjective for this state construct then messed things up. People felt "Ditsch/Dejtsch" but more distant to this political construct and would name fellow members of the German Empire "Prejss" (Prussian) or "Schwáb" (Swabian), both being derrogative - just as derrogatives were also being used for the French at various points of time.
My Grandparents on my Dad,s side, came to Canada around 1907. They were low German speaking and Roman Catholic. Both of my Grandparents ancestors came from Alsace-Lorraine region. I.m not sure of what part of the area . I was told by my Dad that they were force out. So the families ended up in Russia and worked on farms near the Black Sea. They came to Canada so they could by their own land to farm. My Grandparents met in Russia I,m not sure if they were born in Russia or Alsace-Lorraine or if it was their parents that were born in Alsace-Lorrsine? My Grandmother was born in 1887 and my Grandfather was born in 1867.
Thanks for your reply.
So culture wars are not a modern invention? This has been going on for a long time. My grandmother grew up in the slavick area of Hungary. She was beaten for speaking Slovak at school. She followed her mother and half-sister to the US in 1910. For an undereducated woman at the beginning of the 20th century she could speak Slovak, Hungarian(she won a trophy for her Hungarian speaking ability at school) and English. Amazing loving little old lady who raised 5 kids as a single mom!
Lol I guess you never heard about the european wars of the 17th century
Interesting to read.
Thank you for sharing such an episode of history.
👍
Mir bleiwe was mir sind'!
My great great great grandmother was born in Alsace. She left for the United States shortly before the Franco-Prussian war and she died in 1919. My great grandmother said that she was happy to have lived to see Alsace returned to France after World War I.
My father's mother's parents left there for the USA about 1890 (surname Molyet). My grandmother said they spoke Alsatian at home but would not teach it to their children saying, "You are Americans, you speak English," then my grandma would add her parents were able to have private conversations (such as about Christmas gifts) in front of the children. Those great grandparents were Catholic, attended the local "German" Catholic church (at that time this town also had "Irish" and "Polish" parishes) and died before I was born. Wish I could have heard why they left.
Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you for the video. Honestly I dont care if Elsac-Lorraine is german or french (I am german btw)... I just wish for german/french everlasting friendship and never any war again. The lifes of people are important and they should have the framwork to build the life they want to... I think war just does not fit in that framework for most of us.
Thanks for your message 👍
I hope too. I am alsatian and germany remain my second favorite country in the world !
Shameful how the French sunk to the same level, doing everything they could to destroy the Alsatian culture after WW2. Straßburg was majority German speaking as late as the 1970s.
Culture is more than just language and the Alsacian language can still be seen. The region was subjected to Francofication. I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
@@HistoryHustle At no point did I advocate returning the region to Germany. And contrary to your assertion, language is the bedrock of culture. Destroy the language and you destroy the culture. If you want to talk pragmatism, Elsass should be an independent Alemannic state where both French and Elsässerdeutch are official languages. But of course we both know that will never happen.
My ancestor was Prussian (from Elberfeld, now Wuppertal, Rhineland) in the Franco-Prussian War. He was a mounted (horse) policeman in Alsace-Lorraine in 1914. I imagine he was on patrol against such anti-German sentiment. I still have his Franco Prussian War Medal. He wore it so much the clasp broke and he had the medallion sewn directly onto the ribbon.
Thank you for sharing this, Mike!
Well it is more complicated - the word "Prejss" = Prussian (in Lorraine) and Schwáb = Suabian (in Alsace) were used in a pejorative manner against the German authorities - NOT THE WORD "DITSCH" as people from Alsace-Lorraine recognized themselves as being part of the "Ditsch/Dejtsch/Deutsch" identity. So commonly, "Eener vu de unsre" (one of us) refers to fellow people from Alsace Lorraine. Even know, some being "De Fránzoos in de Stráss" (the French living in our street), everybody know exactly who we are talking about.
Alsace is anexed from France, it was German most of the time. You can see it on all buildings and achitecture. Its under French control …in the moment😃 under the french control Straßburg is a garbage disposal.
Look at the architecture of Lille or Arras : it is Flemish. Look at the architecture of Nice or Cannes : it is Italian. Look at the architecture of Perpignan : it is Catalan. Look at the architecture of Biarritz : it is Basque, etc.... Nobody here has any kind of problem with that.
Indeed. I agree with PHL M.
@@phlm9038 if u asked basques they probably would not feel that way 😂
@@viddl8267 When was the last time we heard of the ETA ? Maybe ten years ago....
I come from Picardie and most of the architecture there has been 95% destroyed by German army in the 1st world war. You are lucky not to experienced that. Bye
Wow, I can't wait to see the Alsace Lorraine Soviet Republic episode!
Next week!!
ruclips.net/video/18-MTXdwz4c/видео.html
My ancestors in Alsace were pro-Kaiser and pro-Germany
During WWI they were proud Germans
But in WWII they were anti-Nazis and escape to fight with De Gaulle
Thanks for sharing.
Which French speaking inhabitants of Alsace were forced in the 1880s to speak German??? 98% spoke a German dialect and France conquered this German speaking region in the 17th century. Total bullshit what u r telling here that the inhabitants of this region weren’t Germans ethnically
Pretty sure it was 90% in Alsace, and even lower on Lorraine.
@@joelp7665 98 % of the population of Alsace-Lorraine spoke Alemannic - a German dialect and standard German even before 1871. only the french speaking area of Metz with about 150.000 French speakers was added to the imperial territory as well, the rest was totally German and lived in cities like Straßburg, Kaysersberg, Mühlhausen, etc…. Not very French sounding… 😉
@@rw5961 by 1900 in the Imperial Territory of Alsace-Lorraine, only 86.8% spoke German and German dialect. And that's after 100 000 to 130 000 left for France. So idk where you pull that 98% figure.
Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace-Lorraine
Speaking German is different than feeling German. They spoke Alsacian (which indeed looks more similar to German). But in Switzerland people also speak German, but don't consider themselves German.
Very good video sir. I learned about the conflict between France and Prussia in the 1870s in school back in the 1960s, but I was unaware of the French territory being taken over by the German empire.
Great to read, thanks.
Alsace is my favorite region of France. I've been going there for almost 30 years. I've been to a few weddings and a couple of christenings. Actually, I have a French "Alsatian" Godson!
Unfortunately, people group Alsace and Lorraine together. However, they are very different! Hell, Alsace has its own language! It's basically a dialect of low German with a sprinkling of French...
The practically speak the same German as those right across the Rhine in Kehl. In fact, there's a tram line that connects Strasbourg with Kehl now....Awesome place! Thanks for the report. I will be there soon!
Thanks for your reply.
This is wrong. Alsatian is neither an own language nor a Low German dialect. It's an alemannic dialect. Alemannic dialects in turn belong to the UPPER (southern) german group of dialects (others are austro-bavarian). Other alemannic dialects include Swiss German and Swabian, the latter of which is spoken in Württemberg and Southwest Bavaria (up to and including Augsburg)
Some of my Ancestors are from there. It was interesting to hear more. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for replying!
Fascinating video, thanks!
👍👍
Very good stuff Stefan.the language of Alsace & Lorraine wasn't always French or German , but local languages . Don't forget that in 1860s over 60% of the population of the French territoriy of Metropolitan France spoke other languages other than French: Flemish , Picard, Breton , Auvengat , Catalan , longadoc, Italian , Vogian, Provencal and many others. It was only with the introduction of universal centralised education in French that things began to change and the regional languages declined. Literacy in Britain was twice that of France in the 18th Century Bibles in Welsh were available in all Welsh established churches since the time of Elizabeth 1st and helped perpetuate the use of Welsh . This changed overtime with the migration of Engl , Cornish , Irish and Scottish people into Southr Wales , with mining , stell and metal working such as cooper smelting .keep up the good work . Merde a la Prusse.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, Will!
Wrong! The local language as you call it was a German dialect which was understood by every German tribe. It was the French King Louis XIV who conquered (and bribed) Alsace-Lorrain for purely strategic reasons. Since then the French propaganda claimed the province to always have been French. A lie as obvious as the claim of the English on Northern Ireland.
On the other hand, Alsace was culturally German enough at one time to be caught up in the German Peasants' Revolt in 1525 or thereabouts, and Johann Fischart, a German satirical writer in the 16th century, was connected to Strasbourg.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Fischart
I think that it began with the WW1. it was a melting pot
Interesting. I have just been watching the French TV series ‘Paris Police 1900’, in which a murder victim is a young woman originally from Alsace. Her son has to be taken into the German embassy for protection. The series is also set against the Dreyfus affair, and highlights the antisemitism prevalent in the upper echelons of French society.
Thanks for replying!
So many of these episodes in history are just lost or not necessarily discussed because we don't have time for everything but it's great to see someone taking the time to share their knowledge. It would be interesting to narrate the thoughts of the people at the time who are probably now dead...but they would have been people who were born under one Empire and then faught under another and then died under a third one.
Thanks for your reply.
You deserve to have more than one million subscribers. Great video and great channel.
Many thanks, Marc. Feel free to share!
Great presentation as always. You hustle history for me
👍 Thanks, Steve!
Another awesome video Stefan!! 👍
Thanks!
The Franco-German linguistic border running along and through Alsace-Lorraine, was reasonably clear cut. And there was strong feeling in Germany at the time that the German speaking area should be annexed from France. For example, one of Bismarck's aides Heinrich Abeken in a letter written in 1870 wrote:- "...the necessity of satisfying the moral feeling of the people through the return of these old parts of Germany. It would be a crime against the moral world order if the crime which France committed against these provinces were not atoned; it would be a crime against these lost children themselves if one did not lead them back, even against their will, to the true mother, the old home, if we decided to give them back again to the French stepmother and her corrupting influences. Not only our descendants, still more their descendants, will thank us for it, their children even, if we bring them up as Germans and start out right with it."
However, to the German speaking area to be annexed, the Prussians added the French speaking town of Metz and the surrounding area, for military reasons, as Metz was an important fortress town and in a strategic location. Bismarck reportedly had been reluctant for the incorporation of Metz, but it was being insisted on by the military, though it's unclear whether Bismarck's hand had actually been forced by the military. Metz's fate had been uncertain in the peace negotiations, as indeed had that of Belfort (another French fortress town), but the German generals felt only Metz to be "indispensable". However, the inclusion of Metz made it impossible for the Prussians/Germans to claim that the annexation of Alsace-Lorraine was purely the reclamation of German speaking territory. So, Bismarck tended to portray the annexation as the addition of territory that was essential to the security of Germany, and hence to the peace of Europe (which was probably his actual view, as he expected France to attack Germany at some time in the future).
Those boyish militaristic aggressive "Prussian" views were paving the way for a catastrophy. Why not then annexing "German(ic)" parts of Swiss, Austria... Utter nonsense. The over-simplified "German speaking" view is not relevant. It's the old justification to Pangermanism. Second false justification : security reasons. End result in 1945 : 2 world wars, 60 million dead worldwide, Germany reduced to half of its 1871 size and having to face a perpetual moral shame.
@@jandron94 Bismarck himself was not a pan-German nationalist, and when he had the opportunity to seize German speaking parts of Austria after the Austrian defeat in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866, he chose to take nothing from Austria. Neither was the Prussian King that interested in being German Emperor (he eventually had to be arm-twisted to accept the title). But prior to the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian war, it was clear to Bismarck that the creation of a united Germany would arouse the fierce opposition of France, and as war with France was therefore inevitable, he would ensure the circumstances of any such war would bring about a Prussian victory.
France of course had its own agenda, which was to ensure France remained the leading power in continental Europe. For France this meant therefore that the German states must remain weak and disunited, that if necessary the most powerful upcoming German state (Prussia) should be shown its place by humiliating them (diplomatically or militarily), and that the annexation of additional territories i.e. a chunk of the German speaking Rhineland, plus Belgium & Luxembourg, would round off the French Empire very well (and as we know, French Emperor Napoleon III had put some of these demands in writing and given them to Bismarck, who later published them). So, Prussia & France had conflicting agendas, but it was Bismarck who turned out to be the more skillful (or devious - depending on your point of view) diplomat, and Prussia who (unexpectedly) had the stronger & better led army.
And once France had declared war, some accounts suggest it was Bismarck's view that a defeat for France by itself would guarantee future French enmity, whereas others suggest he took the view it would be the annexation of formerly French territory that would guarantee their enmity. So, there are conflicting accounts as to whether he was in favour or against the acquisition of Alsace-Lorraine, and if so, whether or not it should include Metz. Some accounts indicate he succumbed to pressure from the Prussian military, but at the same time, if he felt French enmity was guaranteed in any case, he would see there to be a necessity in having a buffer territory to a future French attack, such as Alsace-Lorraine. The Prussian leadership felt able to justify its annexation to the public, by pointing to its mainly German speaking population, and to the fact that the territory was once part of the mainly Germanic Holy Roman Empire prior to being seized by France, which itself had taken it by military conquest. The acquisition of this buffer territory was also important in reassuring the southern German states who were fearful of a future French attack if they were to join the new German Empire, by pushing the new Franco-German border back from the Rhine, and further away from them!
As predicted, French enmity toward Germany following their defeat in the Franco-Prussian war (a war which France had declared), was deep and lasting. One can only speculate what would've happened had France won the Franco-Prussian war. But it seems very probable they would have imposed a solution which would have guaranteed an equal deep and lasting Prussian/German enmity toward France.
@@kwaobenti I don't tnink it all comes down to a "classic" who declared war first. Surely Prussia was on a aggressive expansion/domination path (the war with Danemark, the Austro-Prussian war). France had also gained recently territories (Nice, Savoy) but more like "compensations" for helping Italy achieving its unity.
Indeed a clash or duel between France and Prussia was then most likely to happen. Bismark knew too well how disorganised, unpreapared for a massive modern continental war and easily divided France was (Napoleon III's power was on the wane, he had become an old and sick man).
So one might argue that the responsabilities between the one who, as a long planned strategy, cunningly induced and provoked the war are equally shared with the one who ill-advised and foolishly suddenly declared it.
More importantly what prevailed and has a lasting "legacy" I think its the brutality whith which it was conducted (especially on civilians, the Siege of Paris) and the will to humiliate France (German Empire proclamation in the Galerie des Glaces of Versailles, annexing parts of the territory). A lack of morality and brutality that would prevail even more in WW1 and WW2.
@@jandron94 I would not say that in 19th century Europe, either France or Prussia had any moral superiority over the other. Their situations however, placed them in direct rivalry with one another. There then came a point at which each country wanted war with the other (for the reasons I've outlined previously), and both expected to win. It was purely that these expectations were misguided on the part of the French, who were therefore complacent (some might describe their attitude, as one of arrogance, in that they believed the French army to be inherently superior, and they under-estimated their opponent). Therefore, the French eagerness for war did not have a sound military basis.
You've mentioned various wars. As I've indicated, in my view there was an equivalence in the aims of Prussia and of France, and in their readiness to use assertive diplomacy, and to make war, it was simply that Bismarck was more adroit in bringing about situations, by diplomacy and by war, in which he was successfully able to realize his aims, more so than Napoleon III was. As I've already pointed out, Napoleon III wanted France to expand, and had his eye on acquiring the German Rhineland, as well as Belgium & Luxembourg, but his diplomatic strategies were unsuccessful. Yes, Prussia (along with Austria) fought a war against Denmark (a war in which both Prussia & Austria acted jointly, with the tacit support of France & Russia, and after Denmark had invaded Schleswig in contravention of an international agreement. It does not seem there was a formal declaration of war). Prussia then fought a war against Austria (a war which Austria declared). Then Prussia fought a war against France (which France declared). Does it matter who declared the war? Yes, very much so, as it was usually instrumental in determining whether either country fighting the war, would have allies. If a country declares war, it is that country that is perceived as the aggressor, and their opponent, the victim. The aggressor is likely to be spurned by other countries and will therefore be unlikely to have allies, whereas the victim is viewed sympathetically. All that Bismarck desired was that his opponent had no allies, and in this respect, he was always successful. It is also noteworthy that Bismarck wanted only short, sharp wars, and wished to impose relatively moderate & restrained terms on his defeated opponent. The terms he imposed on Austria after the Austro-Prussian war were so moderate, that Austria remained neutral in the Franco-Prussian war, and later went on to become Germany's only reliable ally. Were the terms imposed on France moderate & restrained? I've previously mentioned there are some accounts that point to Prussia's military leadership, and to other potential factors, in forcing Bismarck's hand. Though France was unhappy with the settlement, the land area it lost was small, and mostly German speaking, and France was able to pay their financial indemnity ahead of time, and then rapidly re-arm (much to Bismarck's dismay).
Should the German Emperor have been proclaimed in Versailles? Was it humiliating to France? German leaders of the time would have seen such actions through the prism of earlier perceived humiliations against German states when invaded by France, e.g., under Napoleon I, or even under Louis XIV (the ceiling of the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles, celebrates Louis XIV as conqueror of German cities & states).
Should the Prussian army have besieged Paris? Bismarck & Prussian military leaders viewed the capture of Paris as essential to winning the war. Obviously when a city is besieged, the forces on the outside know they are bringing about suffering for those on the inside, and usually want those on the inside to surrender as quickly as possible and know that if they fail to capture the city, they may lose the war. But the forces on the inside, also know that as long as they fight, their own people on the inside will suffer, and as soon as they surrender, though the suffering of their own people will be ended, their surrender will lead to the capture of their city. The forces of both sides are making choices that cause the civil population in the city to suffer, in order to obtain the outcome that they want. Both sides!
Was Prussia on an "aggressive expansion/domination path"? Prussia under Bismarck was initially a medium power, surrounded by more powerful rivals (Austria, Russia, France). In order to secure Prussia's position, Bismarck wanted to make Prussian the leading power within the German states, which would then lead to German unification under Prussian leadership. He had no imperialistic or expansionist aims either in Europe, or globally, beyond that. Once in 1871 a united Germany had been brought about with the Prussian King declared Emperor, Bismarck's goal had been achieved. Thereafter, the new Germany under Bismarck made no war against anybody. In fact, Bismarck lost no opportunity to reassure Europe that Germany was now "satiated". Bismarck even began to be seen as an 'honest broker' in the disputes of others, and Berlin became a venue for peace conferences. Bismarck showed very limited interest in colonial acquisitions, France had a much larger colonial empire than Germany. Many German nationalists were frustrated by this 'quiet life' under Bismarck. It was not until a new Kaiser eventually took over (Wilhelm II), and Bismarck was dismissed in 1890, that Germany was embarked on a more outward looking foreign policy of seeking a global empire, with a 'sabre-rattling' diplomacy, and an expanded navy, which would change the way it was perceived and reacted to by other powers, and which contributed (along with many other factors) to WW1.
@@kwaobenti The problem I have with your narrative is that you totally disconnect Bismarck actions and legacy from what would occur later on (WW1 and WW2).
And I could easily see you coming : "Germany had not choice but to carry out a preventive attack against France in WW1", in WW2: "it's France and Great-Britain that declared war to Germany". "If Napoleon had not...", "if Ludwig IV had not... (Ludwig who till today has a beautiful little town of his own in Germany "Saarlouis" !!! but not in France since the Revolution !!!).
As for Germany's limited colonial Empire please take a look at geography : very little access to the Mediterranean and a bit limited one to the Atlantic. The 5 major colonial Empires (Portuguese-Spanish-French-English and Dutch) started in the very late 15th century... too early for "Germany". The only attempt by Germany of creating a colonial Empire of its own was in Eastern Europe with WW2 : a very nasty ugly affair (not that I condone any colonial empire).
I know many Germans who would easily trade your laudated Bismarck glorious achievments of a "German Empire" against a less militaristic and cynical but more moral and democratic approach that would not have paved the way to the crimes commited by Germany in the 20th century.
History is no cherry-picking : you have to assume the whole history of "great Germany" and not brush the ugly parts under the carpet.
Maybe you stand too distant from the places were all those destructions and crimes were committed to ever feel the need of reconsidering your narrative.
Glad I subscribed..Great video on a subject that’s vague to me..This was a good introduction on this,,Thank you..🇬🇧👍
You're welcome!
I love your channel and what you do so much. Please keep the good work up 👌
Will do, thanks!
Thank you for this. It is something that I was aware of, having been to Mulhouse a few times in the past, but I didn't know much of the detail.
Thanks for watching, Tim!
My family was originally from this area and your videos on this history of the region are very informative and appreciated.
Thanks for replying.
Hey Stephon, can you do a video on the history of Zwarte Piet and the current controversy? Thanks, keep rocking!
Not for anytime soon. Especially since Sinterklaas is over. Check the channel of History with Hilbert for that 👍
Went there in 2016. It's a strange mix of French and German. I think if you took a poll it favours French rule yet there's sauerkraut and German cheeses.
An interesting mix yes. Soon more on this topic.
American here, but I have ancestors from Lorraine. I think that after WWII, we should have given Lorraine to the French and Alsace to the then West Germany. If the French bitched about it, I would have told them, "too bad, you chickened out under the Vichy Regime, we wouldn't have lost so much blood on D-Day and in the hedgerows if you had held out. You had plenty of army left in the south and in North Africa. Go pound sand if you don't like it."
So childish and ignorant...what was the US doing in 194o against the Nazis, ah yes...businness, a lot of it. Thre french lost 90000 men defending their country in 1940 against an ennemy that took WAY more that US troops to be defeated.
@@Balrog2005 Thanks to General DeGaulle, whom the Vichy Regime declared a traitor and sentenced to death in absentia. BTW, how did that Maginot line work out?
@Jacques: very one-sided reply.
@@jacqueslefave4296 Btw do you have any idea of what WWI was for the French, like Verdun, before doing cheap shots a the Maginot Line concept ? Read a little more...the Vichy Regime was America's first choice, especialy Roosevelt until late 1942..again maybe you didn't get all the memos, like the amercains were doing bussines with Nazi germany the year that France was invaded and a lot of those german-american groups were top-notch for the war effort, like the the one that made all those Opel Blitz trucks so important for germans logistics and used American techs. So your concept of justice is to give a milenary (if you had any idea of what your are talking about you know the difference between the Alsace-Moselle part annexed by Germany and the rest of Lorraine) piece of France to the Germans to thanks them for their agression, recipt for another great war, congratulations.
@@Balrog2005 I think that the Maginot line would have been more than adequate for keeping the Germans out in WWI.
Thanks very much for this interesting video. I didn't know about the Soviet Republic of Alsace-Lorraine!.
Thanks for watching!
An extra video, quite a nice surprise. For St. Nicholas day? BZ
Wednesday the 100k subscriber celebration vid ?
This Wednesday already? Haha. Not sure but soon I think 👌
Elsaß is part of the ancient kingdom of Swabia, (Schwaben), inhabited by the Alamanni tribe, which still exists, and still speaks it's own "Black Forest" dialect. Elsaß certainly belonged in the newly united German Reich. The majority language was German, right up until the 1960s! Do "Metz", and "Strassburg" sound like French names?
Some people argue that the region was German by origin and there is some truth in that. Look at the Alsatian language, or perhaps the architecture. Some people refer to the Holy Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire (by some seen as the first "German state", which it wasn't) was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that one came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switzerland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense.
Others refer to how the French King in the 17th century seized the region. But from who? Because a German nation didn't exist. People argue from a German nationalistic point of view. That's an anachronism: nationalism as such came around in the 19th century. And that nation - the German Empire - for sure wasn't one cohesive country. Even in WW1 soldiers from different states resented one another. The troubles in the Imperial Territory of Alsace also occurred elsewhere in the empire. I call it Germany-annexed because the Germans annexed the region from France. People make a fuss about words, but what words should be appropriate? Sometimes I doubt people actually watch the video and just write an angry comment on one word in the title. I find that very short-sighted.
And sure: the region was subjected to Francofication. Then I take a pragmatic stance. So what should we do? Give it back to Germany. That would cause more problems than it would solve.
I believe my video was objective enough. Could it be longer or provided with more details - yes. Share the details in the comments I'd say.
@@HistoryHustle There is a clear difference between a political state, and a nation: A nation is genetic, linguistic, and cultural in nature. (The very word "nation" comes from "natural, and native"). The political state of 1871, is not interchangeable with the the phrase: "German Nation". If you wanted to unite all Germans in a single state, you would have to include Austria, most of Switzerland, The Netherlands, most of Belgium, most of Poland, half of Romania, and parts of Italy, Slovenia, and Croatia.
Many cities in germany, france, italy, spain, etc. Have names of celtic origin, does that mean thay ireland should annex them all? Should italy annex all territories inhabited by romance language speaking peoples?
@@SmashingCapital There exist territories, and lands from which millions of ethnic Germans were driven, as a result of lost wars. Cultures that once settled in undeveloped lands, and in the process, transformed them into major economic hubs, and in the process drained swamps, cut canals, built bridges, and laid railroads, should be recognized for the role they played in the history of these regions. Ethnic Cleansing, and expulsions that follow wars, are immoral and those cultures, once removed, should be allowed to return. That is all I am saying. Perhaps all state borders within Europe, should be abolished. I have no problem with that.
@@henrikrolfsen584 why are you saying that ethnic cleansing is bad when people do it to you but not when you do it to them?
Interesting video!. Thank you
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Very interesting. I will be in Strausbourg next month, how do I find the building you were standing in front of?
The city isn't that big. Such stroll around and see what you encounter. Enjoy!
Sad to see so much German nationalist still thinking we are happy to be German when we always had a culture distinct from Germany and France!
I understand.
Pretty sure Bismarck was opposed to the annexation of Alsace Lorraine, predicted it would make another war inevitable
I can imagine.
Actually, to the credit of the French - a large share of the communist fiercely opposed the assimilationist policies of thei government, going even to make speeches in German in front of the French national assembly to protest the treatment of Alsace-Lorraine !!!
At school in England during the 60s we were how oppressive life was for the Alsace Lorraine people under German rule. How they yearned to be returned to French rule. Then I went there and thought, we’ll this seems more German than French to me. Then I read the French people distrusted the loyalty of the AL people. How stories get twisted for propaganda purposes. In the 50s , (in primary school!) we were told not to use the word collaboration.
Of course they did not destroyed historic buildings of their "German" past ... Just like in England they have not destroyed old buildings of the Norman yoke...
Also it did seem more German to you because you probably speak zero or very little French.
The French did not distrust their loyalty except for a very few ones (like the ones who were part of the SS division that commited the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre in WW2).
olivier legendre I'd like to come back to what you said about the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane. It's true there were a lot of Alsatians in the SS division Das Reich that was stationed in the south west of France. In 1944 the SS division Das Reich consisted of 15 000 newly recruited men. 9 000 were from Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Alsace and ex POW from the Soviet Union, the rest being Germans. 6 000 were from Alsace. The massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane was perpetrated by men of the 3rd Company of the Regiment "Der Führer", about 100 men of that Regiment in Oradour-sur-Glane that day, maybe a little bit more. My point is that I don't understand why people remember the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane as a massacre perpetrated by Alsatians whereas only 14 of them were on the site. 13 were forcibly conscripted, only one was a volunteer.
@@fantomasvsfantomas2288 I do not fully understand your numbers : 15 000 = 9000 + 6000 (all "the rest" are Alsatians ???)
What was shocking for the French is that some Alsatians took part in it (against their own fellow-countrymen), that they were "malgré-nous" or not is another complicated debate.
Anyhow the ones giving the orders were Germans.
@@jandron94 My numbers : out of 9 000 foreigners, 6 000 were Alsatians. What I mean is that 14 Alsatians in Oradour on a total of more than 100 men of other nationalities, that's not many.
Interesting region.
I generally like your channel and content, but this one is severely biased.
You could also ask: How was EL under the French Annexation? There were Germans AND French living in the Region, side by side, for Centuries.
The French King Louis XVI went to add the Territory to France, and by the Time of the Franco-Prussian War (The French declared War btw), The Towns and Places still had German Names.
Both sides claimed the Region, and over the Centuries it changed hands several times.
It makes it such a strong Symbol of the European Union, that Strasbourg/Strassburg is now (among Brussels, another Border Mess between Flemish and French) the Seat of the EU.
Thanks for your reply.
"You could also ask: How was EL under the French Annexation? "
Yes, but that's simply not the scope of this video. Where in the video did I stay the region should or should not be German.
This is how the history unfolded. You can agree or disagree on it. I have a pragmatic stance on this. It is what it is. And let's not wage (another) war over it.
Why don't you ask to the local population which side they prefer or not to belong to ? This is not a desert island ! They can think by themselves as did their ancestors.
Though it might "hurt" your German(ic) pride you have to make do with their preference (unless you don't believe in democratic values and self determination).
1648 : Louis XIV not Louis XVI
@@DL-ls5sy Yes! Thank you. :-)
@@jandron94 I suppose back then they generally would have preferred to not join (or be joined) neither side. After all, there were plenty of autonomous Regions all over, with mixed populations, e.g. Luxembourg, Switzerland, Belgium.
As for your assumption on my "Germanic Pride", I am happy to inform you that I am well versed in History, and I am very aware that there never was a single Germany, but opposing Tribes, States, Dukedoms, etc.
My Mother comes from Masuria, where Poles and Germans settled side by side, but neither accepted them as Prussian nor Polish. Settlers there went there in the 1700s because they were Lutheran. And the Borders shifted several times during the Lifetimes of my Grandparents and those before.
IMHO it does not matter what we pick as Nationality, it is all mixed anyway.
I am about half Eastern European, a Quarter German and Skandinavian.
At this point I prefer to be simply European.
I understand though, French Pride is strong. Although, as late as the 1940s, the different French Provinces did not like each other very much either.
You speak of Elsaß-Lothringen as if it were a French land - a tiny number of French speakers existed (around 2%) when it was part of the second reich. There were very few Frenchmen in this supposedly rightfully French land. German is still the majority language there today.
Alcatian is a language that's is similar to Germany. Yet, most of them today feel French. Take a look at Switserland. In one part they do speak German, but do they feel as such? No.
@@HistoryHustle I thought it was merely a dialect of German, part of the Swabian group.
@@HistoryHustle we swisse speak allemanic dialects, as in elsass to. we understand us perfectly when we speak to them in our local dialects.
@@HistoryHustle That statement is ridiculous. The French never tried to deny German culture in Switzerland.
@@HistoryHustle So the success of a deliberate culturecide means an annexation is now legitimized?
I walked around the Neustadt district of Strasbourg today. It resembles Karlsruhe nearby in Germany.
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Interestingly the French have finally decided to act by cutting the region, removing the Alsace name completely in 2016 and combining the region to other two French ones so it's now Grand Est, sad for their varied identity and culture...
Ok! There is a tourist website named 'visit Alsace'. Also a train company I believe.
It's mainly an administrative reorganisation. Regions in France have very little power compared to Germany, Italy or Spain.
People in France are still much more attached to be governed and administrated by the nation rather than by the region they live in.
Also in region their is a sublevel named "departement" that people usually also identify themselves strongly with.
Very nice review
Cheers!
Thank you, Chris.
Alsace-Lorraine should be the Bundesrepublik's 17th Land. French rule has killed the indigenous German language.
I see.
Excellent
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One interesting aspect is that despite all hostilities, neither France nor Germany did guard their borders.
Ok! Didn't know this.
Getting close to 100k subscribers!!! I’ve been watching since ~30k subscribers and contribute on Patreon. Love the content, you do a super job, keep up the good work!
Amazing, Eric! We're so close now. Honestly it feels kinda like a countdown!
@@HistoryHustle 15 minutes later and now it’s at 99.9k. I hope you have a bottle of champagne ready :)
It’s interesting to see the german style in architecture, wine and food in the villages around Colmar. Rhein is supposed to be the border today, but people could easily pass over the river for hundreds of years so the water was no effective border for the culture. Going by car through Munster, up in the Vosges and Col de la Schlucht, things change fast. The german black and white timber framed houses disappear and in Gerardmer it becomes grey stone houses in typical french style. Obviously the mountains have been more difficult to pass in ancient times and been a natural border. People in Alsace speaks often alsacienne with each other, and french with foreigners. They show no signs of longing to become germans. The partisan movement was strong in Alsace during the nazi occupation, but it was probably not a question of being french or german, but because they didn’t like Nazis.
Colmar is a lovely place. Thanks for replying.
The people in Alsace are 2 million, maybe only at best a third of them can speak some German...
Also in the past one might not speak the "national" language of France but still profoundly feel attached to this country.
That's the history of France : Bretons, Corsicans, Basques, Catalans, Alsatians, Mosellans, Flemings...
Very interesting. Thank you.
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I know that early in WWI units of the French Army made a short incursion into somewhere in this region, some of the older ethnic French cheered them in, the Germans observed it with raised eyebrows, and when they heard that German army units were on their way, being of insufficient numbers and lacking significant artillery, they quickly evacuated. The cheering Francophiles we're ratted out, and the reprisals we're unspeakably violent when the German soldiers arrived.😱
Sure an interesting topic to cover one day.
Interesting topic, but I hope this presentation is not the new normal for History Hustle, where context is ignored and viewpoints imbalanced. The historical background of these territories is quite interesting, yet complicated, but leaving this out and portraying anti-Prussian examples as anti-German betrays the appearance of an agenda. Although in 1871, Alsace was culturally German and Lorraine French, their annexation provided practical military value for protecting the new German nation from further French aggression, but you left out the rationale for the annexation. From the German perspective, the French kingdom had invaded German-speaking lands through these lands at least a dozen times over the prior centuries, so it would’ve been almost suicide politically for Bismarck to forego the annexation of any German-speaking lands, let alone the fortress of Metz in Lorraine, which the General Staff insisted on. Their mistreatment by Prussian aristocrats is well-covered, but I really like it when you provide fair and balanced context to understanding opposing views, not the opposite.
Thanks for your critical reply and additional information. And no, this won't be the new standard. The on-location vids are most of the time shorter and on top of this: this video is an overview video. I just made it because I found it fun to make. Didn't fully dive into it as I do with other topics.
@@HistoryHustle u can still find a lot hot air about that topic.
@@HistoryHustle I did not think the video was imbalanced or appeared to have an agenda. The context of the video was the experience of Alsace-Lorraine as a German territory. There will always be a critic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in this particular case, I find it baseless. Bravo on a job well done, in my opinion.
@@HistoryHustle Appreciate your frankness, which explains the impression of something missing, unlike your previous episodes. If you are able to expand upon this topic, then suggest adding an episode on how French policy affected the culture of German speaking Alsatians after reincorporation in 1945. Keep up the great work!
@@ppalchinsky8301 It wasnt reincorporation afetr 1945 it was reannxation of a liberated territory. It was original german when france and Germany split in 843 and 100% germany speaking to include Lothringian. So this must be the starting point. After centuries the first annexations by France happened.. An intellectually honest historian therefore will always call them and it is those ANNEXATIONS... undoing the French annexations will therefore always be a liberation no matter how mismanaged and no matter how successful the previous cultural destruction committed by the French over the centuries was.
First you must tell, that Elsass - Lothringen belongs about 700 years to the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation - the first Reich.
The HRE was a loose state association and only an empire in name. Furthermore, it wasn't 'the German nation' since that was came around in 1871. Thirdly, the HRE also had Switserland and Northern Italy. Should these parts also become part of Germany? It doesn't make sense.
Ironic, isn't it. Prussian militarism created a version of Germany that included Alsace-Lorraine - after expelling the Germans of Tyrol, Austria, Bohemia and Moravia - but then lost Alsace-Lorraine, West Prussia, Schleswig and Posen, before going on to lose East Prussia, Hinterpommern and Silesia.
Weighing it all up, it didn't go terribly well.
Germany shrank during the 20th century yes.
A Bonus Monday video, what a nice surprise! Alsace-Loraine and it’s history are fascinating. Can’t wait to hear about the short lived state. It looked really cold there, hope you hustled straight to a cafe after filming for some coffee❤️🔥
Bonus Monday indeed. I do have some extra content on my sleeve: also to get the 100K in 2021. Strasbourg had many lovely cafes! I was there last autumn.Thanks :)
Les Marseillaise was composed in Strasbourg it can't get more french than that.
Edit: Alsace-Moselle the northern part of Lorraine which was annexed to Germany during Franco-Prussian war maintains some laws the Laïcité or Secularism doesnt apply in the region when separation of church and state happened in France at the time the region was under German control the president of France appoints the bishop in Strasbourg and other religious leaders that receive salary from the state , churches, synagogues are maintained and built with the support from the Government and a much more expensive social security system and cover wider social services and the pension system actually makes money for some reason.
Thanks for sharing this additional information.
My family came from the area in 1872. The Lueckel's. Settling in Tell City / Cannelton IN working in the mills. I've always wondered about where they came from, and what it was that made them leave. Thank you for the education.
Thanks for your reply.
Maybe they did not want to be under Prussian rules like the ancestor of Ms J K Rowling who immigrated to London (check "who do you think you are" where BBC traced her ancestry to Alsace). Like 1000s of Alsacien who went to France, Algeria too. In Champagne many wine growers came from Alsace, hence you have Germanic names amongst famous champagne brands.
Excellent! I have always wondered about the nuts-and-bolts of this.
Many thanks.
@@HistoryHustle Thanks for reaching out and, of course, the great video. So overall you would say that Alsace-Lorraine did not welcome German rule? Most of the Alsatians would have preferred to stay with France?
Lol the amount of pro German people in the comments is ridiculous. I'm from Hagenau in northern Alsace, and we're very much french. Yes, we recognize and respect the Germanic aspects of our history, culture, and regional dialect, but we are foremost PROUD & HAPPY to be French 🇲🇫🇲🇫🇲🇫
Finally someone from the region who sets the record straight. Thanks.
@@HistoryHustle : you can't ignore the diversity of opinions and I am saddened that you side with a side that may not respect international norms regarding the treatment of linguistic minorities
As like always a great video. 👍
Many thanks👍