Loving this new series on charging ( if you remember me I restore vintage/ classic cars) & looking forward to your next one, over the last 6 months or so you and you college’s on RUclips have got me hooked on electronics although I’m old and I can’t seam to remember stuff I’ve fixed a few things including a TV , and just got a small handheld oscilloscope , I think what really got me started was on this was one of my 1934 SS2 the voltage regulator wasn’t working , so I decided to try and learn more about electric’s , now your my favourite because of the way you explain things, many thanks 👍
Recondition may improve a slightly iffy battery but it is mostly all smoke and mirrors. I have tried everything and all repair regeneration on multiple failing batteries of all sizes. The process has have little extra effect than a long float charge.
Many thanks for the scope view of Noco Genius 5 in repair mode!! I don't have your deluxe current probe 8-), I just probe the voltage in AC mode and I see a period signal about 2 seconds like you say with Vpp 356mV, I will try to make a short video just to share my results. I have others chargers with auto-repair mode, if battery voltage is low like 10, it will kick start the pulsing mode but once voltage increase it just stops and there is no force repair mode. I am testing repair mode on a 7 years battery on my Honda Accord to see if anything improve, I live in Canada so here temp can go down to -35C so battery is under extreme stress. I am not trying to be cheap trying to extend the battery life, more of a ecologist conscient.
That's an interesting take by NOCO on a repair mode. A short high current pulse every 1.9 seconds isn't exactly an equalization charge which is typical of recondition/repair modes on these chargers and is nowhere near the number of pulses of the various pulse desulfator out there (most of them are at 1 KHz or about 2,000 times more high current pulse). It would indeed be interesting to see what these pulses in the repair mode actually do.
Interesting. Most of the cheap chargers I have tested pulse at around 1 to 2 second intervals. I have seen many Chinese battery re-conditioners especially for golf carts that do the short pulse at a slow rate. You have to bear in mind that most car starter batteries these day are VRLA maintenance free so you cant do crude overcharge (effectively what reconditioning is) without losing electrolyte.
@@razenby I wonder if NOCO started this slow pulse thing and the Chinese vendors just copied it or if NOCO just got a Chinese supplier to make it for them?
@@richardlouie2922 Not sure, I have a pule re-conditioner that I bought about 12 years ago for an ailing deep-discharge camper battery that uses the same pulse system as the Noco but it didn't help ......
@@razenby That is why the work you do here is so important as it calls out the questionable products for us! On a related note - do you have access to the BatteryMinder line of products over there? They advertise a working desulfation process that has had great reviews over the years.
@@richardlouie2922 I can't see the battery miner range anywhere over here. When I look for products that look a better quality when I do find them they are usually made in the USA. I just ordered some stuff from the USA but the shipping is usually very expensive and the import duty is a consideration. I guess the Mains voltage is an issue for some products. It is a shame as the Chinese crap is sneaked into the a leaky EU border UK and sold without duties on eBay. I feel there would be a strong demand for a site that imports and sells quality US products. Let's hope for a better free trade deal. You cant even buy some Dewalt cutting steel hole cutters and drills over here. I see them consistently win hands down on sharpness and durability (on the Project Farm channel) but you cant get them in the UK. I bought a Bosch sets instead.
Very interesting - thanks for the scope captures. For some reason I expected the charger would output a form of short-duration, high frequency 'burst' at/above gas voltage to help the desulfation process. This seems to be a very conservative approach, but then again I'm no chemist (or lawyer...)
The ones I have tested just pulse like this one. The name of the game is to dislodge or break up the sulphate deposits on the plates to expose fresh Lead. You cant stuff lots of charge into modern batteries are most are maintenance free VRLA and electrolyte loss would outweigh the benefits.
Thanks for this informative session and the comparative between the NOCO and CETK . I truly appreciate the investment you make in creating these reviews/tests. After viewing this particular test of the NOCO and paying close attention during your description of the set up and noticing how you've terminating your connections to the battery posts i.e. loosely wrapped bare wire, which in itself defies the fundamental rule of electrical and electronics best practice of ensuring good conductivity. Hence, it would be interesting to see the results of the same tests with the connections to be battery posts according to best practice . In my experience, proper connections ensure not only good conductivity but also prevent losses, overheating and thus allow the purposed equipment to perform according to their stated ratings (if the manufacturers are honest and transparent). My observation, is further corroborated by other you tubers where they report considerable variances in the outcome when connecting via different methods with a substantial better yield/outcome when using a properly fastened battery clamp/terminal. Thanks again for the great work
I understand your concerns but let me explain: Clamped connections are essential at 300 Amps. However the test system was monitoring voltage at the battery charger clips with sense wires (no current in these wires) the not the terminal posts. I know that the integrity of the connections to the battery posts were not an issue as I measured them on the rig. The potential between the charge clamps and the terminal post was 12 millivolts at 3 amps. 24 millivolts is way beyond the resolution of the charger's sensing electronics. At the low currents at the charge termination voltages then the potential difference is been
Thank you for your valued reply. I concur fully and support your explanation as the objective was to tests and collect readings, I was simply commenting because I saw the looped wire move as you were pointing at it with your finger. I currently have a CTEK MULTI US 3300 (max 3.3 Amps) which I had purchased 5 years ago for maintaining the battery in my Honda 2004 S2000. I did the job for the size of battery and the car was in perfect condition. I've just recently purchased a 2016 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 and did some research on what Porsche recommends as a battery maintainer and found they sell the rebranded CTEK MXS 5.0 which is solid wired to a cigarette lighter adapter. So I decided to try the MULTI US 3300 and purchased and extension cable and the cigarette lighter adapter knowing that it may take longer to charge which is not an issue as I would mostly use the unit during winter storage. Hence, time is available and the objective would primarily be maintaining the battery. The battery was recently changed (less than 1 year) by the previous owner at a Porsche dealer. It's a Banner 95 Ah which was not put to sue much during the previous year (1200 km) and in storage for the last 5-6 months. The CETK 3300 has bein on for at least 36 hours and the LEDs remain Orange (Amber) on CAR mode and CHARGE. Further to you r temperature measurement of the CTEK MXS 5.0, I also measured the 3300 and got 55C at the upper part where the AC line cord is terminated. The center of the unit hovers around 44-48C and about 32C where the Mode button is. I suspect that his unit may have given out as it did turn the LEDS to green about 4 days ago when I first tried it directly connected onto the battery terminals Vs the cigarette lighter adapter. Based on your tests of the CTEK MXS 5.0 and the NOCO Genius 5 it would be safe to assume the NOCO is overall a better unit especially knowing that the CTEKS run so hot and seem to have understandably what seems to be a high rate of failure. As I believe in doing things right the first time even if it cost more (as the saying goes from the man from FRAM - Pay me know or pay me more later). Therefore because of the quality of your work and your depth of knowledge (vary few reviewers delve as far and as concisely into the subject matter KUDOS!) I would kindly ask for your advice, aside from the NOCO, as to which charger/tender you would personally buy based on your hands-on experience for the purpose of charging and maintaining a battery? Just as a point of reference I have looked at the ones posted through the Best Chargers to buy 2020 & 2021 and the cheapest is always on top Deltran Battery Tender Plus 12V 1.25A (basic Charger and Maintainer $60.00 CAD). The other unit is the Optima Digital 400 (if one wants an intelligent unit). What I like about the Optima (based on specs) is that it is a hybrid i.e. LEDs and Digital display (integrated Voltmeter) and supposedly can charge depleted batteries. NOCO also makes the cut in certain reviews. I apologize for the length of my reply and thank you in advance for your valued input.
Are you pulling this one apart as well like you did with the CTEK you modded to see if this has the same kind of issues? Thanks for the interesting videos.
I didn't realise that you'd been discharging at 10A. As discussed on the first video starter batteries are capacity rated at a 20 hour discharge time. So this battery when new should have been able to deliver 2.5A for 20 hours. At higher the discharge currents the battery will provide lower total Ah capacity. Discharging at 4x nominal current will make a significant difference. There is a formula to predict the results at different currents known as Peukerts equation. If anyone wants to do a bit of nerdy reading - try this planetcalc.com/2283/ There may well be better explanations out there - just grabbed the first I came across.
Thanks. Maybe I should explain my reasoning a little better: am not doing it a 2.5A for Three reasons: 1. Compared to a 10A rate, It may yield a higher capacity on 2.5A but it will also do significantly greater damage to the battery because when nearly empty the battery internal resistance increases, at low current it will continue to discharge. i.e. The terminal SG of the electrolyte is lower at the 2.5A rate resulting in greater sulfation damage. We want to revive this battery not ruin it completely. The 10A rate hits the stop trigger voltage earlier in the discharge cycle. 2. I know this battery is bad as I tested the warranty replacement from Halfords and it yielded 42.6 Ah at 10A top 10.6 volts. The 10A rate result correlates well with the state of the battery quite well.. 3. I don't have the time!! I will demonstrate this at the end of the testing.
I agree - good to read that you already have had a replacement from Halfords. Can't help but think that if it was possible to 'repair' batteries and restore capacity with a bit of electric shock treatment then that's what would happen when you take one back 😀😀
thank you very much for this very informative video. I was wondering if you can use the recon function in this NOCO by connecting it to the battery terminals directly with this battery sitting in the car with its two terminals still hooked?
@@razenby thank you so much. I realized that there is a ground connection point next to the battery. can I use the positive terminal on the batter and the ground to connect to NOCO and do the repair? is it the same as connecting NOCO to the two battery terminals after they are all disconnected from original cables?
@@nickfish4385 yes that would be fine - you don't want the repair spikes going down the +Ve lead into your electronics. It is probably safe but it is better to be cautious.
I've been enjoying your charger videos, as I just purchased a NOCO Genius 5, a couple days ago. I have a question. Does the green light ever go solid, when the charging is done? After going through the other charging stages, my green light has been pulsing for almost a full day. During this time, I've watched the voltage slowly rise from about 13.1 to 13.9 volts, and it's now lingering around 13.68. I'd appreciate your insight on what the charger is doing right now, and whether the green light will ever go solid. Thank you.
What is the Ah capacity of the battery? A 50ah battery can take up to 14 hours to complete. If you battery is bigger then leave it a few days. Yes, the green light should go solid at the final absorption stage when the battery terminal voltage reaches 14.4 to 14.5 volts. (On normal 12V lead acid charge). This is the stage when the final 20% or so of the Ah capacity is delivered at a low charge current (~200mA) that reduces down to ~70mA. When the terminal voltage is reached at this low charge current the charger turns of the current and switches to monitoring mode. If the battery can't reach the expected terminal voltage for a healthy battery the the light wont go solid. If your battery is still at 13.68 then it suggests that the battery may be faulty. If you disconnect the charger and restart the charge then you should see it ramp up to 14.4V pretty quickly, If it doesn't reach 14.4V then you may have a faulty charger as it needs to get to this trigger voltage before it turns off the third light. Best bet is to try it on a known good battery to see what it does. If you connect an ammeter in series with the charger you can see what is going on. Good luck.
@@razenby That's great info. I appreciate you taking the time. It's a 57ah battery. The voltage started climbing again since I posted before, and it's now at 14.10 volts. The battery is almost 3 years old, and the car has mainly only been driven on short trips, a few times weekly. Since Covid though, it's more like once a week. I wouldn't be surprised if it's compromised. If it hasn't finished when I wake up in the morning, I'll try what you suggested. Thanks again--and great job on your videos. Your knowledge of electronics is impressive. Tom
@@razenby Just an update, for anyone else who might encounter this situation. The green light finally turned solid. I realized, I think it actually took about 48 hours, to go from a flashing green light (with no other LEDS lit), to a solid green light. Anyhow, thanks again, Magic Smoke.
@@thislife6884 If you don't drive the car more than 2 times a week and you have a drive way than I would disconnect the battery to keep her going. 3 years the battery is getting up there in age, so take precaution. Personally, even on my daily driver I would use my Noco Genius 1 to charge the battery once every 2-3 months over night just to keep sulfation from collecting in her. You're doing great though by taking action now rather than having to worry later on with you battery dead upon start up. Also, trickle charger is best. Heard so many bad stories about bringing your charger to discount parts store to do a quick shock charge of 2-3 hours. I would rather hook the battery up over night and have her last much much longer than shocking her when she gets low.
It should if the battery is good. What that means is that the battery is not reaching termination voltage under the final low-current stage of the float or absorption charge. If you have DVM then measure across the voltage across the terminals. Depending on the car this can also happen if the battery is still connected to the vehicle. Another test is to disconnect the battery and leave it for a few weeks and measure the terminal voltage. If you have a sulphate bridge on one of the cells is will self discharge quickly. It may affect only one cell so look for a voltage of anything less than 12V.
That might take a long time... The strategy on the accunmates is 10 days on float.. thenn a strategy of occasional monitoring and top up. You can't flost a battery indefinitely according to some sources
@@jusb1066 Thanks for the reply, i have used a Ctek 10 for the last couple years on full time and its been fine, on Odessey Battereies, but its just failed with the same fault as the 5.0 @magic Smoke fixed (no lights at all) I've stripped it out of the case but the 10 board is totally different so cant use your fix unforunatly
CTEK has Lights and stages...that are documented in the manual.. the trouble is that the manual is a work of fiction .....Oh and teh electronic quality is very cheap - I have hundred of people wanting to send me faulty CTEKS. Trouble is I don't do repairs for money.
Hey magic smoke i have been really enjoying your videos. One of your videos was on the sound dock 10. In that video it was mentioned that you have parts for repair for sale. I have a sound dock 10 that i have been looking to fix. How would i get a kit of these parts it is a usa version 110v. Thank you
Hi Todd, thanks what is happening to it, Is it the power or logic board that has failed? I have all the part for the power board in stock if you need them. The active parts on the 230 & 110 are the same. Email me at ark.mail@gmx.com. The office ships internationally every day.
"did you say a spyke?" i was scared, i thought the oscilloscope had a covid 19...i am not far from a knowledge of electrics or electronics, but i listen very carefully to those like you who have the knowledge (in your case and the equipment) needed to demonstrate something. i found a new genius 5 noco on a site for a good price 462 ron means 84 pounds i am looking forward to .ps for the scope i recommend a zeneca astra vaccine
La modalità di riparazione è principalmente di marketing, il caricabatterie deve tenere il passo con le oltraggiose affermazioni della concorrenza sulla riparazione della batteria. Le batterie al piombo acido vecchio stile rispondevano bene ed è qui che è nato il mito del ricondizionamento. (SLA) Tuttavia, le batterie al piombo sigillate non rispondono così bene. SLA trarrà probabilmente vantaggio dall'occasionale ciclo di ricarica della riparazione, ma nel momento in cui noti che c'è un problema è già troppo tardi. Tempo funebre per la tua batteria.
Greetings from Ukraine. Received as a gift Noco G10. However, I could not start it on any battery. The device blinks the red minimum charge indicator and goes into standby mode. Cyclically returns to charge mode, blinks again with minimum charge and goes into standby mode. And so on until the power is disconnected. The Forse mode is also not available. There is no service. There is no information on the type of breakdown. Have you seen any mention of this behavior of the Noco G10? Thank you very much for your time.
Thanks for the message. I have repaired a few with this fault . The output switching FET circuit in the low voltage section has failed or there is a wiring fault on the low voltage side. I am trying to remember if there is a fuse link in the battery lead ... If there is have you checked the fuse?
@@razenby The fuse is intact. An overvoltage message was triggered when attempting to charge a 12 volt battery in 6 volt mode. That is, the charging - battery connection is present. With only the ability to solder, but without deep knowledge in electronics, I can fix the malfunction myself if you indicate how? Your answer was encouraging that it is generally possible to repair it :-) Thank you very much for your attention to my problem.
@@TheSOMSTS Good pint. So it is likely to be the power control on the low voltage DC side. Presumably somwhere near the isolator FET. I have a couple of 10A Nocos here for repair now.
Interesting thought. Half wave would be 50 Pulses a second, Full wave 100. If left connected they would overcharge the wet cell batteries of the day but you could top up the cells with DI. They certainly cleaned the sulfate from the plates and but I guess they would also etch the lead from the plates. Using one on a maintenance free battery is a bad idea if. However with a new current management regime is an interesting thought. The problem is that you need a weighty and expensive transformer but you could replicate the output using PWM switch mode to get the sine wave back. ' A new charger that works as well as the old' I am motivated to dig my old 1990 battery charger out of the store and see how it does!
@@razenby could you not just periodically measure the battery voltage and turn off at 15v . This would be great on an old charger... Your old 90s charge would have a full wave... Perhaps a single diode mod would be worth measuring? Selenium plate rectifier was common
@@jusb1066 Selenium is useful because of the high internal resistance. The mains voltage in the UK is stated as 230V + 6% to -10%. Plus 6% gives a voltage of 245V. In practice it can be up to 268V at my house. That represents quite a spread when charging from a transformer and rectifier, a linear circuit with no control. A single diode would give 50hz at about a 10% duty cycle on a charged battery. ( there would be no current flowing util the rectified voltage went above the battery terminal voltage at the peak of the half sine wave). Food for thought. I wonder what some really powerful current pulsed will do. Something like 200A. Noco mode on steroids!!! To prevent overcharging I wonder if it would be worth draining the charge from the battery between pulses... I could experiment but I feel I would get a lot of flak from the viewers that consider themselves to be battery experts.
Loving this new series on charging ( if you remember me I restore vintage/ classic cars) & looking forward to your next one, over the last 6 months or so you and you college’s on RUclips have got me hooked on electronics although I’m old and I can’t seam to remember stuff I’ve fixed a few things including a TV , and just got a small handheld oscilloscope , I think what really got me started was on this was one of my 1934 SS2 the voltage regulator wasn’t working , so I decided to try and learn more about electric’s , now your my favourite because of the way you explain things, many thanks 👍
Thanks very much for the comments. I remember the old dynamo regulators. I had one on my ford Anglia! Interesting how they work.
Great review, looking forward to watching part 3.
Thanks!
You need to run the reconditioning after a full charge. It wasn't clear to me whether you did that or not.
Recondition may improve a slightly iffy battery but it is mostly all smoke and mirrors. I have tried everything and all repair regeneration on multiple failing batteries of all sizes. The process has have little extra effect than a long float charge.
Many thanks for the scope view of Noco Genius 5 in repair mode!! I don't have your deluxe current probe 8-), I just probe the voltage in AC mode and I see a period signal about 2 seconds like you say with Vpp 356mV, I will try to make a short video just to share my results.
I have others chargers with auto-repair mode, if battery voltage is low like 10, it will kick start the pulsing mode but once voltage increase it just stops and there is no force repair mode.
I am testing repair mode on a 7 years battery on my Honda Accord to see if anything improve, I live in Canada so here temp can go down to -35C so battery is under extreme stress.
I am not trying to be cheap trying to extend the battery life, more of a ecologist conscient.
The answer when it comes will be very simple.
Cool, thanks.
You are welcome
That's an interesting take by NOCO on a repair mode. A short high current pulse every 1.9 seconds isn't exactly an equalization charge which is typical of recondition/repair modes on these chargers and is nowhere near the number of pulses of the various pulse desulfator out there (most of them are at 1 KHz or about 2,000 times more high current pulse). It would indeed be interesting to see what these pulses in the repair mode actually do.
Interesting. Most of the cheap chargers I have tested pulse at around 1 to 2 second intervals. I have seen many Chinese battery re-conditioners especially for golf carts that do the short pulse at a slow rate. You have to bear in mind that most car starter batteries these day are VRLA maintenance free so you cant do crude overcharge (effectively what reconditioning is) without losing electrolyte.
@@razenby I wonder if NOCO started this slow pulse thing and the Chinese vendors just copied it or if NOCO just got a Chinese supplier to make it for them?
@@richardlouie2922 Not sure, I have a pule re-conditioner that I bought about 12 years ago for an ailing deep-discharge camper battery that uses the same pulse system as the Noco but it didn't help ......
@@razenby That is why the work you do here is so important as it calls out the questionable products for us!
On a related note - do you have access to the BatteryMinder line of products over there? They advertise a working desulfation process that has had great reviews over the years.
@@richardlouie2922 I can't see the battery miner range anywhere over here. When I look for products that look a better quality when I do find them they are usually made in the USA. I just ordered some stuff from the USA but the shipping is usually very expensive and the import duty is a consideration. I guess the Mains voltage is an issue for some products. It is a shame as the Chinese crap is sneaked into the a leaky EU border UK and sold without duties on eBay. I feel there would be a strong demand for a site that imports and sells quality US products. Let's hope for a better free trade deal. You cant even buy some Dewalt cutting steel hole cutters and drills over here. I see them consistently win hands down on sharpness and durability (on the Project Farm channel) but you cant get them in the UK. I bought a Bosch sets instead.
Very interesting - thanks for the scope captures. For some reason I expected the charger would output a form of short-duration, high frequency 'burst' at/above gas voltage to help the desulfation process. This seems to be a very conservative approach, but then again I'm no chemist (or lawyer...)
The ones I have tested just pulse like this one. The name of the game is to dislodge or break up the sulphate deposits on the plates to expose fresh Lead. You cant stuff lots of charge into modern batteries are most are maintenance free VRLA and electrolyte loss would outweigh the benefits.
Thanks for this informative session and the comparative between the NOCO and CETK . I truly appreciate the investment you make in creating these reviews/tests.
After viewing this particular test of the NOCO and paying close attention during your description of the set up and noticing how you've terminating your connections to the battery posts i.e. loosely wrapped bare wire, which in itself defies the fundamental rule of electrical and electronics best practice of ensuring good conductivity. Hence, it would be interesting to see the results of the same tests with the connections to be battery posts according to best practice .
In my experience, proper connections ensure not only good conductivity but also prevent losses, overheating and thus allow the purposed equipment to perform according to their stated ratings
(if the manufacturers are honest and transparent).
My observation, is further corroborated by other you tubers where they report considerable variances in the outcome when connecting via different methods with a substantial better yield/outcome when using a properly fastened battery clamp/terminal.
Thanks again for the great work
I understand your concerns but let me explain: Clamped connections are essential at 300 Amps. However the test system was monitoring voltage at the battery charger clips with sense wires (no current in these wires) the not the terminal posts. I know that the integrity of the connections to the battery posts were not an issue as I measured them on the rig. The potential between the charge clamps and the terminal post was 12 millivolts at 3 amps. 24 millivolts is way beyond the resolution of the charger's sensing electronics. At the low currents at the charge termination voltages then the potential difference is been
Thank you for your valued reply. I concur fully and support your explanation as the objective was to tests and collect readings, I was simply commenting because I saw the looped wire move as you were pointing at it with your finger.
I currently have a CTEK MULTI US 3300 (max 3.3 Amps) which I had purchased 5 years ago for maintaining the battery in my Honda 2004 S2000. I did the job for the size of battery and the car was in perfect condition.
I've just recently purchased a 2016 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 and did some research on what Porsche recommends as a battery maintainer and found they sell the rebranded CTEK MXS 5.0 which is solid wired to a cigarette lighter adapter. So I decided to try the MULTI US 3300 and purchased and extension cable and the cigarette lighter adapter knowing that it may take longer to charge which is not an issue as I would mostly use the unit during winter storage. Hence, time is available and the objective would primarily be maintaining the battery.
The battery was recently changed (less than 1 year) by the previous owner at a Porsche dealer. It's a Banner 95 Ah which was not put to sue much during the previous year (1200 km) and in storage for the last 5-6 months.
The CETK 3300 has bein on for at least 36 hours and the LEDs remain Orange (Amber) on CAR mode and CHARGE. Further to you r temperature measurement of the CTEK MXS 5.0, I also measured the 3300 and got 55C at the upper part where the AC line cord is terminated. The center of the unit hovers around 44-48C and about 32C where the Mode button is.
I suspect that his unit may have given out as it did turn the LEDS to green about 4 days ago when I first tried it directly connected onto the battery terminals Vs the cigarette lighter adapter.
Based on your tests of the CTEK MXS 5.0 and the NOCO Genius 5 it would be safe to assume the NOCO is overall a better unit especially knowing that the CTEKS run so hot and seem to have understandably what seems to be a high rate of failure.
As I believe in doing things right the first time even if it cost more (as the saying goes from the man from FRAM - Pay me know or pay me more later). Therefore because of the quality of your work and your depth of knowledge (vary few reviewers delve as far and as concisely into the subject matter KUDOS!) I would kindly ask for your advice, aside from the NOCO, as to which charger/tender you would personally buy based on your hands-on experience for the purpose of charging and maintaining a battery?
Just as a point of reference I have looked at the ones posted through the Best Chargers to buy 2020 & 2021 and the cheapest is always on top Deltran Battery Tender Plus 12V 1.25A (basic Charger and Maintainer $60.00 CAD). The other unit is the Optima Digital 400 (if one wants an intelligent unit). What I like about the Optima (based on specs) is that it is a hybrid i.e. LEDs and Digital display (integrated Voltmeter) and supposedly can charge depleted batteries. NOCO also makes the cut in certain reviews.
I apologize for the length of my reply and thank you in advance for your valued input.
Are you pulling this one apart as well like you did with the CTEK you modded to see if this has the same kind of issues?
Thanks for the interesting videos.
Yes. I will.
Thank you for the great video. I didn't understand. Is flickering the end of the repair mode? Is there any way to know the progress?
I will analayse the process in the next video. Standby
I didn't realise that you'd been discharging at 10A.
As discussed on the first video starter batteries are capacity rated at a 20 hour discharge time.
So this battery when new should have been able to deliver 2.5A for 20 hours.
At higher the discharge currents the battery will provide lower total Ah capacity.
Discharging at 4x nominal current will make a significant difference.
There is a formula to predict the results at different currents known as Peukerts equation.
If anyone wants to do a bit of nerdy reading - try this
planetcalc.com/2283/
There may well be better explanations out there - just grabbed the first I came across.
Thanks. Maybe I should explain my reasoning a little better: am not doing it a 2.5A for Three reasons:
1. Compared to a 10A rate, It may yield a higher capacity on 2.5A but it will also do significantly greater damage to the battery because when nearly empty the battery internal resistance increases, at low current it will continue to discharge. i.e. The terminal SG of the electrolyte is lower at the 2.5A rate resulting in greater sulfation damage. We want to revive this battery not ruin it completely. The 10A rate hits the stop trigger voltage earlier in the discharge cycle.
2. I know this battery is bad as I tested the warranty replacement from Halfords and it yielded 42.6 Ah at 10A top 10.6 volts. The 10A rate result correlates well with the state of the battery quite well..
3. I don't have the time!! I will demonstrate this at the end of the testing.
I agree - good to read that you already have had a replacement from Halfords.
Can't help but think that if it was possible to 'repair' batteries and restore capacity with a bit of electric shock treatment then that's what would happen when you take one back 😀😀
thank you very much for this very informative video. I was wondering if you can use the recon function in this NOCO by connecting it to the battery terminals directly with this battery sitting in the car with its two terminals still hooked?
If it is a modern car with electronics then I advise you to disconnect both of the battery terminals before engaging repair mode.
@@razenby thank you so much. I realized that there is a ground connection point next to the battery. can I use the positive terminal on the batter and the ground to connect to NOCO and do the repair? is it the same as connecting NOCO to the two battery terminals after they are all disconnected from original cables?
@@nickfish4385 yes that would be fine - you don't want the repair spikes going down the +Ve lead into your electronics. It is probably safe but it is better to be cautious.
@@razenby thank you very much.
I've been enjoying your charger videos, as I just purchased a NOCO Genius 5, a couple days ago. I have a question. Does the green light ever go solid, when the charging is done? After going through the other charging stages, my green light has been pulsing for almost a full day. During this time, I've watched the voltage slowly rise from about 13.1 to 13.9 volts, and it's now lingering around 13.68. I'd appreciate your insight on what the charger is doing right now, and whether the green light will ever go solid. Thank you.
What is the Ah capacity of the battery? A 50ah battery can take up to 14 hours to complete. If you battery is bigger then leave it a few days. Yes, the green light should go solid at the final absorption stage when the battery terminal voltage reaches 14.4 to 14.5 volts. (On normal 12V lead acid charge). This is the stage when the final 20% or so of the Ah capacity is delivered at a low charge current (~200mA) that reduces down to ~70mA. When the terminal voltage is reached at this low charge current the charger turns of the current and switches to monitoring mode. If the battery can't reach the expected terminal voltage for a healthy battery the the light wont go solid. If your battery is still at 13.68 then it suggests that the battery may be faulty. If you disconnect the charger and restart the charge then you should see it ramp up to 14.4V pretty quickly, If it doesn't reach 14.4V then you may have a faulty charger as it needs to get to this trigger voltage before it turns off the third light. Best bet is to try it on a known good battery to see what it does. If you connect an ammeter in series with the charger you can see what is going on. Good luck.
@@razenby That's great info. I appreciate you taking the time. It's a 57ah battery. The voltage started climbing again since I posted before, and it's now at 14.10 volts. The battery is almost 3 years old, and the car has mainly only been driven on short trips, a few times weekly. Since Covid though, it's more like once a week. I wouldn't be surprised if it's compromised. If it hasn't finished when I wake up in the morning, I'll try what you suggested. Thanks again--and great job on your videos. Your knowledge of electronics is impressive.
Tom
@@razenby Just an update, for anyone else who might encounter this situation. The green light finally turned solid. I realized, I think it actually took about 48 hours, to go from a flashing green light (with no other LEDS lit), to a solid green light. Anyhow, thanks again, Magic Smoke.
@@thislife6884 Phew
@@thislife6884 If you don't drive the car more than 2 times a week and you have a drive way than I would disconnect the battery to keep her going. 3 years the battery is getting up there in age, so take precaution. Personally, even on my daily driver I would use my Noco Genius 1 to charge the battery once every 2-3 months over night just to keep sulfation from collecting in her. You're doing great though by taking action now rather than having to worry later on with you battery dead upon start up. Also, trickle charger is best. Heard so many bad stories about bringing your charger to discount parts store to do a quick shock charge of 2-3 hours. I would rather hook the battery up over night and have her last much much longer than shocking her when she gets low.
Is there a video with the results after repair mode? Did the repair actually help restore the capacity of the battery?
See part 3
Hi, I just got a Genius 5 and the green charge light has been blinking for nearly 48 hours. Will it ever go solid green?
It should if the battery is good. What that means is that the battery is not reaching termination voltage under the final low-current stage of the float or absorption charge. If you have DVM then measure across the voltage across the terminals. Depending on the car this can also happen if the battery is still connected to the vehicle. Another test is to disconnect the battery and leave it for a few weeks and measure the terminal voltage. If you have a sulphate bridge on one of the cells is will self discharge quickly. It may affect only one cell so look for a voltage of anything less than 12V.
Be interesting to see if these are safe for leaving on 24 /7 on a AGM to keep off roader fully charged
That might take a long time... The strategy on the accunmates is 10 days on float.. thenn a strategy of occasional monitoring and top up. You can't flost a battery indefinitely according to some sources
@@jusb1066 Thanks for the reply, i have used a Ctek 10 for the last couple years on full time and its been fine, on Odessey Battereies, but its just failed with the same fault as the 5.0 @magic Smoke fixed (no lights at all) I've stripped it out of the case but the 10 board is totally different so cant use your fix unforunatly
@@lesbrock6719 I'm sure ctek has the same strategy as accumate, and was perfectly safe for long term
CTEK has Lights and stages...that are documented in the manual.. the trouble is that the manual is a work of fiction .....Oh and teh electronic quality is very cheap - I have hundred of people wanting to send me faulty CTEKS. Trouble is I don't do repairs for money.
Hey magic smoke i have been really enjoying your videos. One of your videos was on the sound dock 10. In that video it was mentioned that you have parts for repair for sale. I have a sound dock 10 that i have been looking to fix. How would i get a kit of these parts it is a usa version 110v. Thank you
Hi Todd, thanks what is happening to it, Is it the power or logic board that has failed? I have all the part for the power board in stock if you need them. The active parts on the 230 & 110 are the same. Email me at ark.mail@gmx.com. The office ships internationally every day.
"did you say a spyke?" i was scared, i thought the oscilloscope had a covid 19...i am not far from a knowledge of electrics or electronics, but i listen very carefully to those like you who have the knowledge (in your case and the equipment) needed to demonstrate something.
i found a new genius 5 noco on a site for a good price 462 ron means 84 pounds i am looking forward to .ps for the scope i recommend a zeneca astra vaccine
The genius 5 is a charger that has good control and is kind to the battery.
Is part three coming?
Yes, Been laboriously experimenting to determine the woods from the trees. I will explain in the video....3
Funziona bene la modalità riparazione???
La modalità di riparazione è principalmente di marketing, il caricabatterie deve tenere il passo con le oltraggiose affermazioni della concorrenza sulla riparazione della batteria. Le batterie al piombo acido vecchio stile rispondevano bene ed è qui che è nato il mito del ricondizionamento. (SLA) Tuttavia, le batterie al piombo sigillate non rispondono così bene. SLA trarrà probabilmente vantaggio dall'occasionale ciclo di ricarica della riparazione, ma nel momento in cui noti che c'è un problema è già troppo tardi. Tempo funebre per la tua batteria.
Greetings from Ukraine. Received as a gift Noco G10. However, I could not start it on any battery. The device blinks the red minimum charge indicator and goes into standby mode. Cyclically returns to charge mode, blinks again with minimum charge and goes into standby mode. And so on until the power is disconnected. The Forse mode is also not available. There is no service. There is no information on the type of breakdown. Have you seen any mention of this behavior of the Noco G10? Thank you very much for your time.
Thanks for the message. I have repaired a few with this fault . The output switching FET circuit in the low voltage section has failed or there is a wiring fault on the low voltage side. I am trying to remember if there is a fuse link in the battery lead ... If there is have you checked the fuse?
@@razenby The fuse is intact. An overvoltage message was triggered when attempting to charge a 12 volt battery in 6 volt mode. That is, the charging - battery connection is present.
With only the ability to solder, but without deep knowledge in electronics, I can fix the malfunction myself if you indicate how? Your answer was encouraging that it is generally possible to repair it :-)
Thank you very much for your attention to my problem.
@@TheSOMSTS Good pint. So it is likely to be the power control on the low voltage DC side. Presumably somwhere near the isolator FET. I have a couple of 10A Nocos here for repair now.
Maybe the old school charges had it right... Used to use a half wave rectifier.. single diode. So you got 25 pulses a second
Interesting thought. Half wave would be 50 Pulses a second, Full wave 100. If left connected they would overcharge the wet cell batteries of the day but you could top up the cells with DI. They certainly cleaned the sulfate from the plates and but I guess they would also etch the lead from the plates. Using one on a maintenance free battery is a bad idea if. However with a new current management regime is an interesting thought. The problem is that you need a weighty and expensive transformer but you could replicate the output using PWM switch mode to get the sine wave back. ' A new charger that works as well as the old' I am motivated to dig my old 1990 battery charger out of the store and see how it does!
@@razenby could you not just periodically measure the battery voltage and turn off at 15v . This would be great on an old charger... Your old 90s charge would have a full wave... Perhaps a single diode mod would be worth measuring? Selenium plate rectifier was common
@@jusb1066 Selenium is useful because of the high internal resistance. The mains voltage in the UK is stated as 230V + 6% to -10%. Plus 6% gives a voltage of 245V. In practice it can be up to 268V at my house. That represents quite a spread when charging from a transformer and rectifier, a linear circuit with no control. A single diode would give 50hz at about a 10% duty cycle on a charged battery. ( there would be no current flowing util the rectified voltage went above the battery terminal voltage at the peak of the half sine wave). Food for thought. I wonder what some really powerful current pulsed will do. Something like 200A. Noco mode on steroids!!! To prevent overcharging I wonder if it would be worth draining the charge from the battery between pulses... I could experiment but I feel I would get a lot of flak from the viewers that consider themselves to be battery experts.
@@razenby indeed replacing selenium diode with a full bridge rectifier on one of my old chargers meant output voltage was much higher,. No good then
At -20C it doesn’t work.
Explain?