Yellowstone: The Ultimate Iron Hauler on the Missabe (Unscripted)
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2024
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This video gets down and dirty into the super Iron Hauler of the Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range's 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone steam locomotive. The sheer power behind this giant is amazing. The Yellowstone steam locomotive is truly one of the best to ever hit the U.S. railways. 
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The Malley's had so much power that they would break the car couplers if the engineers opened the throttle too fast. And would run out of water if they pulled them too hard. Our family's best friend was a engineer on them from start to end. Lot's of cool stories. Great job on this video!!
Which is precisely why the Allegheny never pulled to it's ability by enforcement of the C & O itself. Coupler damage and separations.
Spelled "Mallets." 😂😂😂
Ah, my Mount Rushmore of steam locomotives.
First, the Y6b. It is by far the best compound ever made and was able to eliminate the inherent issues present with compounds (restriction to low speeds) and utilize the latest in locomotive technology to reduce maintenance about as much as could be possible for a steam locomotive. Sure it has the advantage of being essentially the last new steam locomotive designed in the United States, but its capability remains.
And then we have the Allegheny. Arguably the most capable of the superpower articulated locomotives (though convincing arguments can be made for Big Boy and the DMIR Yellowstone), what puts it over the top for me is the Allegheny's untapped potential. According to my calculations (I think I posted them in the Allegheny video) the Allegheny could be raised to 300 PSI of boiler pressure legally. While Big Boy and the DMIR Yellowstones could also have their boiler pressure raised this would result in factors of adhesion of about 3.6, while the Allegheny with its original factor of adhesion of 4.6 would be reduced to a ideal 4.0, the same as those others were starting at and the goal of most locomotives. add to this the booster that it was designed to take and you have a locomotive that out-tractive efforts both the Yellowstone and Big Boy on the low end and crushes them with the best ever recorded horsepower.
Then we have the Milwaukee Road F7. No need for fancy arguments with this one, the fact that every day it was expected to pull a train over 100 mile per hour is enough. No other passenger engine that I am aware of was ever asked to do that. The fact that it looked great doing it helps.
and finally, the K-4 Kanawha. Representing the most polished form of the famous 2-8-4 Berkshires, this was a engine that would be comfortable on essentially any service, and its versatility is what puts it on the mountain.
It's absolutely astonishing the tonnage the DM&IR 2-8-8-4's could pull without helpers, they didn't do it fast but they did it.
Incredible design The Baldwin Yellowstone were
@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower And with 140,000 lbs. tractive effort, they would win a tug-of-war with the Union Pacific Big Boys.
@@markthomas6436 Well, with the smaller drivers, I do think the DM & IR's Yellowstone would win a "Tractor Pull" against the Big Boy.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Same with the Y6 A's ad B's, brutes!
@@stevew270 A little more doubt with that one.. Simply because the Y6B's adhesion weight was only 3.5 Despite the super ability elsewhere.. Meaning they slipped more than you would like. Other than that...the Y6B would I think, rather easily beat a Big Boy in said "Tractor Pull"
DM&IR Yellowstones were not purely drag engines, like some of the others mentioned in the comments. IIRC, they could run at 45mph. Drivers were 63", again, an intermediate size for a heavy freight engine. They were designed for the job, hauling much of the iron ore for WW2.
Right, and that factor is what made articulated viable again after most railroads were down on them because of the lack of speed.
I was lucky enough to see 229 in Minnesota when I was visiting my father who lives in Minnesota. These things were awe inspiring. Thank you for sharing this video.
Im glad you got to see one! You're welcome! I have fun doping these video's.
The DM&IR Yellowstones were indeed great locomotives. One of its best design features are its 63 inch drivers which put the horsepower curve at more usable and practical speeds in contrast to many “superpower” designs.
Yes, that driver size range appears to be the more accepted size across a majority of the railroads of the time. Big Boy was an anomaly because they wanted speed freights and weren't dealing with hauling coal and iron so much. They did it, but it wasn't U.P.'s biggest source of revenue by a long shot.
These are my favorite Yellowstones, those things are real brutes! They're also the world record holder of heaviest train pulled by a single steam locomotive. An ore train weighing 18,000-19,000 tons. Yeah, the loaded ore trains went downhill and the empties were the ones up the 2.2% grade, in fact, I believe they worked harder climbing with the empties, but either job was more than enough proof of their sheer power.
As I previously mentioned, I doubt i'm going to find another tonnage haul at 18,000 again. That's simply amazing. I think the Allegheny could have done it. But were never allowed to operate to their actual ability.
They still had to start such tonnage from stand still at level, which is an enormous feat in itself. And 190 empties was a train of roughly 3800-4000 tons, that alone was a big load for a single locomotive on a 2,2% grade
@@Tom-Lahaye Indeed! Thank you for the comment!
Poor Big Boy. Poor Allegheny. Go home to mommy and get over it.
@archiecoolsdown5854 Speaking of Big Boy, what I find interesting is how close in drawbar horsepower these Yellowstones (6,250) and the Big Boys (6,290) are despite the Yellowstones having much lower boiler pressure. Very well constructed machines.
Missabe fan here! Love it!
Quite the outfit despite entering the game so late.
During their final years, a few selected Yellowstones such as Numbers 222, 224, and 225 were given the honor of pulling a few rail-fan excursion trains in the early 1960’s, July 3rd 1960 was a notable event when Yellowstone 222 pulled a 13 car excursion that was sponsored by the Minnesota Railfans Association and the Illini Railroad Club from Duluth to Eli Winton, Minnesota. And on July 2nd 1961, Yellowstone 224 pulled a long excursion train dubbed “The Illini Special” for the Illini Railroad Club, and Yellowstone 225 pulled a shorter excursion for the Minnesota Railfans Association. 225 is the only excursion star example still around today.
Good info!
Impressive locomotive. Thanks heavens 3 are preserved.
Indeed!
Thanks for another informative video on one more steam giant!
I like your Mount Rushmore of Steam I have gotten to see three of the four, just have yet to see your number one pick. But the three I have see have all be worth the trip. Keep up the great work on the videos. Good information. Thanks.
Haha! Thank you for the compliments! You wont be able to knock off the first because the closest preserved is a Y6A. But it in the least can give you a great idea of what the Y6B was all about.
Great video I saw one up in Duluth they are monsters and two harbors
Great video! I would love to see one of three preserved Yellowstones get restored to operating condition and run again since Big Boy 4014 was restored. However, We have Big Boy 4014 "the Largest steam locomotive ever restored" that is operational while Challenger 3985 went under restoration at Silvis IL.
I dont know why the U.P. chose not to keep the Challenger. Just because they restored 4014, doesnt mean there isn't room still for the Challenger. To me it's a cash cow for them if they'd have put Big Boy, Challenger and FEF3 on the rails at the same time for events. People from everywhere would be there. It would probably overwhelm Cheyenne... Sturgis style.. You know. Some things I just scratch my head at.
Yup, when UP restored the 4014 they tossed away the 3985.
Seems to be the case
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower UP spent a lot of money on 4014 and I seriously doubt they’d want to spend as much again.
Awesome video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
These engines were part of the reason we won WWII, the very ore they distributed helped to build tanks and other vital war materials. We have the Duluth Missabe and Iron Range railroad to thank for and their magnificent yellowstone locomotives!
Great comment! It cannot be overstated. To go further... they built the world as we know it as well.
So glad I found your channel. Loving the content. Now I’m gonna have to find a O-scale model of a Yellowstone. 😂
LOL... Well, I am super pleased that you like the content. Thanks for being here! Don't break the bank on the model :)
4:45 made me say out loud "they weigh WHAT?"
...although with these huge trains over 2.2% will require the MOST locomotive anyway so I'm all for it. Pulling 18.000 tons is absurd. Mindblowing. That's what 31 tons axle load gets you. Over here in my parts of the world, our big articulateds had to do with 15 tons.
It's still the most I've seen and it is rather mind blowing.
I wish this locomotive had more fans compared to other steam locomotives, as it’s a beast of a machine
You're not alone. I'm a fan of DMIR Yellowstone. I loved to see one of three preserved gets restored and run again since Big Boy 4014 was reaquired by Union Pacific in 2013.
Big Boy gets all of the glory.. But there are more fans of the Yellowstone than you might think otherwise.
Any local authority with vision can easily make that happen.. And one day there will be such a person(s) Seeing all of the Mikes and Shay's run excursion is great and all. But the bigger they are, the more people from EVERYWHERE come :) Im very sure that was the thinking of the authority that acquired the Challenger from Union Pacific. They immediately went to work on it to get it back on the rails. And for good reason.
The DM&IR Yellowstone type 2-8-8-4 locomotives are incredible examples of articulated steam power and hauling heavy iron ore trains was a difficult task to perform. I enjoy seeing footage of the DM&IR Yellowstone locomotives and I am pleased that 3 of these engines are preserved and still exist today ( engines 225, 227 and 229). The Yellowstone type 2-8-8-4 is among my personal favorite types of articulated steam locomotives and the DM&IR examples are excellent, impressive representatives of "monster sized" North American steam power.
The really modern Articulated essentially started with the Yellowstone. And these titans certainly held their own until the end.
The yellow stones never went down proctor hill there to big. The missabe used 0-10-2s and the big ex B&LE 2-10-4s on the hill and before that they used 2-8-8-2s. The iron range devision is almost like a roller coaster one minute your flying down a hill then right away your pulling a 2% grade as half your train is still coming down a hill not to mention a 3% grade out of two harbors. Pretty impressive operation.
Some other things to consider. The yellow stones were really great engines and were designed for a specific role. The 2-10-10-2 locomotives of the Virginian pulled massive heavy coal trains by themselves tractive effort could be more than 170000 lbs. The 2-6-6-6s
were tested at over 7400 horse power and could move at speed. They were very versatile and could drag freight and run at high speed. The factor of adhesion for a 2-6-6-6 was 512 for the front engine, massively high. There were many things to recommend all of the engines on your list of mount Rushmore, not a bad design or selection in the bunch.
Factor of adhesion is the ratio of weight on drivers divided by tractive effort and usually was between 3.5 and 4.0.
Do you happen to know what is was for the Allegany's rear engine?
Yep. Thank you for explaining that more in depth. I didnt go that far in the video.
Factor of Adhesion? 4.5 or 4.6, depending on the which batch. Extremely good.
Absolutely underrated beasts. I’m more impartial to the Y6s and the Allegheny’s due to living near where these beasts ran, however the Yellowstones were brutes. Especially on a railroad that preferred tonnage over speed, really shows what kind of power steam was capable of at low speeds.
Which is exactly why the older Mallets will be getting video's as well
I enjoyed seeing what I grew up watching. I'm from Two Harbors and my dad as a machinist for the DM&IR on the Yellowstones. FIrst, historically, you sort of fumbled the ball. J. D. Rockefeller loaned money to the Merritt brothers who developed the Mesabi side from Mt. Iron to Duluth. In the panic of 1893, they couldn't pay the loan so he took the entire operation. He then threatened Andrew Carnegie that he would start making steel, and forced Carnegie to buy him out. Later, J. P. Morgan bought out Carnegie and formed US Steel. Another thing, the Yellowstones were only used for mainline ore hauling to the port cities yards, namely Proctor and Two Hatbors. Because it was miles from the docks in Duluth, they would build strings of cars for each boat to be loaded per instrucitoins from the steel makers. The 2;2 % grade down the hill was very hard on brakes so the # of cars were limited. They would then have to split the train and push them onto the docks for loading. The longest dock in Duluth was about 2400 feet but the boats were only 6-700 feet so that's how long the car section would have to be. The grade on the Mesabi Division was quite flat, with almost no hills. However, the Iron Range Division to Two Harbors was much hillier and longer, so the Yellowstones were mostly needed there. There are several great books on the DM&IR. One of the best is by Frank A. King titled "The Missabe Road" written in 1972. I believe that it is stll available through Unv. of Minn. Press. Google it!
Thanks for the great information!
Neighboring Great Northern also hauled ore. They had a slightly better alignment than the Missabe to Superior WI and their N3 2 8 8 0 locomotives regularly hauled 20,000 long tons of ore to Superior.
Thanks for the info.
A point of correction: J.P. Morgan owned U.S. Steel (created in part from Carnegie's steel company) and Rockefeller owned Standard Oil. He did also have steel interests and did have some financial interests in MN's iron range ( I thought through Charlemagne Tower who later lost everything to Rockefeller) but apparently liquidated all that stuff to U.S. Steel however and never owned U.S. Steel.
The other point has to do with Proctor Hill: Although I am no expert on MN history I wouldn't think iron ore trains would be going up Proctor Hill out of Duluth. These trains would have been coming into Duluth (or Two Harbors) from the mines of the Mesabi or Vermillion (and a much smaller extent the Cuyuna in central MN) to unload at the harbor into ore ships and therefore wouldn't be loaded going up that grade.
Good Stuff!
Ah the DM&IR Yellowstones. Its always good to hear about them
I enjoyed doing the video! Thanks for the comment :)
I remember as a kid seeing these Mallets hauling iron ore past my hometown in the late 1950san very early 1960s you could hear them a long way off an see the black smoke blowing out the stack! The older boys in town would go down to the bridge on the east end of town that spanned over the tracks ,they would try and drop a rock down the locomotive stack as it passed under the bridge if the rock went into the stack it would be shot back out like it was shot out of a cannon ! Crazy dangerous kids idea of fun back in the day!
Wow! Lucky you!
That's crazy!
As a child in Duluth in the 1950s, I remember seeing a Yellowstone engine pulling a seemingly endless train of ore cars from the iron range when on family drives "up north." Too bad there aren't any in running condition today. Did DM & IR have any true Mallets, that is with both high and low pressure compound engines, or were their Yellowstone engines all high pressure to all four cylinders?
The DM&IR had 2-8-8-2 Chesapeake's (M Class) prior to the Yellowstone. They had two high pressure and two low pressure cylinders. I believe they received the first of these around 1910. Several were upgraded and reclassified as the years went on. Many retained the High/Low cylinders while others were converted to High pressure only. The Dm&IR also used 2-10-2 Sant Fe's, 2-8-0 Consolidations, 2-8-2 Mikado's and 2-10-4 Texas' locomotives.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPowerThanks for the info on their earlier equipment. It appears they had quite a variety of engines over the years.
@@tjmpls4905 You're welcome!
Articulated steam locomotives (Mallet type) are rated by their drawbar pull established by dynamometer. A boiler’s horsepower is used to judge how much steam can be made by the boiler measured by pounds per hour and is an important consideration where speed is involved. A locomotive with high tractive effort can pull a lot but not do it as fast as a locomotive with a high horsepower boiler with larger drivers. Such a locomotive will pull less weight but will pull it faster. The trick is to balance speed and tractive effort with a boiler that can produce enough steam to sustain both. You could judge the amount an engine will pull by train weight and certainly the 18,000 ton ore trains the Missabe ran were incredible-even by today’s double-stack standards, but then the characteristics of the line a locomotive works on comes into play. A line with uncompensated steep grades will not give an accurate picture of a locomotive’s performance. Look at the terrain a C&O Allegheny pulled trains through vs. the terrain a Missabe Yellowstone operated on. You can’t fairly compare locomotives on two railroads with different profiles. This is why tractive effort gives the best picture of what a locomotive can do. The feature article in the November 1980 Trains magazine is about the DM&IR’s articulated locomotives including their Yellowstones and it has some profound information. The article reveals that the Missabe used a Western Pacific design as a base, changed the grate area and combustion chamber, raised the boiler pressure and used some exotic metals to help keep the locomotives within weight limits. The result was an increase of 3,000 lbs to boost the tractive effort of Missabe’s Yellowstones to 140,000 pounds. So where does that put Missabe’s Yellowstones compared to some other well-known articulateds? Well let’s see: C&O Allegheny 2-6+6-6 Mallet, Lima; 110,000 lbs tractive effort. Northern Pacific Z-5 2-8+8-4 Mallet, American/Baldwin; 140,000 lbs. tractive effort. Southern Pacific “Cab Forward” 2-8+8-4 Mallet, Baldwin; 124,000 lbs. tractive effort. N&W Y6 2-8+8-2 Mallet, N&W shops, 127,000 lbs. tractive effort. Union Pacific “Big Boy” 4-8+8-4 Mallet, American, 135,000 lbs. tractive effort. Rio Grande 2-8+8-2 Mallet, American, 132,000 lbs. tractive effort. Erie fans will talk up the Triplex locomotive with its 160,000 lbs. tractive effort but the locomotive could not sustain the pull for more than ten minutes because the boiler could not keep up an adequate steam supply so it’s not considered. N&W also had a Mallet that could achieve an incredible 180,000 lbs. tractive effort but only for an extremely short time. The two surprises on this condensed list are last because few have ever heard of the locomotives and the last listed was the most powerful steam locomotive in regular service. First surprise is: Western Pacific M-251-256 2-8+8-2 Mallet, Baldwin, 137,000 lbs. tractive effort. Second surprise is: Great Northern R-2 class, 2-8+8-2 Mallet, Great Northern shops, 151,000 lbs. tractive effort. Both the Western Pacific and Great Northern locomotives are unknowns-except to knowledgeable historians. In the case of heavy-haul railroading like iron ore, speed is much less a factor than tonnage. Missabe’s biggest challenge was not so much the haul of 18,000 tons of ore from mine to the docks on Lake Superior but rather in hauling the empty cars up a ten mile-long 2.2% grade to start back towards the mines. There’s one thing nobody mentions about the iron ore railroads around the Great Lakes and that is their record of safety. Safety on the ore-hauling railroads ultimately means nobody gets hurt in a dangerous industry and no trains end up in Lake Superior. Considering the weight of these trains headed down steep grades and ending with a potential dive off the end of an ore dock should something happen, I know of only one incident of an out-of-control ore train. That is impressive. Note; All statistical data are found in “Articulated Steam Locomotives of North America (Robert A. LeMassena, Sundance Publications, 1979). The Trains magazine article is worth the price of the magazine-if you can find one. The pictures are wonderful and show how Missabe was huge on maintenance. Missabe Yellowstones are truly beautiful machines and they took good care of them.
I have to do the AC 9 still.. But The Missabe's Yellowstone was the best design of them to date and I suspect I am not going to find any different with the AC9. That 18,000 ton train just blew me away. I still cannot find a creditable source that another railroad matched it. Alas, I have three pubs from 1953 or earlier that speaks about the Western Pacific and Great Northern with some detail. Now whether or not they have those specific loco's.. I do not know. But there will be a day where I do that research. Wonderful information and I do greatly appreciate it. Folks like you make this fun and worth it all for me to post these video's. Everything I put out will not always be accurate.. Im book smart, but not practical or regional smart.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower There are a few videos that briefly show a GN R-2. I’ve never found any of the WP engine but if you take the cab off a Missabe M-3 and change out the tender to a more traditional boxy one you’ve got a pretty close image.
@@douglasskaalrud6865 Well then, I'll have to take a closer look at that. I often wonder, if it's not stated, where the Loco manufacturers developed their new designs from.
Superior is in Wisconsin.
Wow!
Indeed!
18,000 tons? 😮 WOW! I knew these were beasts but literally 😮
Yes indeed!
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Literally followed the DMIR through my train nerd life and never
Saw that stat
@@CoryAY82383 the 18000T hauls? First I'd seen any railroad in the era do it. I was beyond impressed.
@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower even today that's an impressive stat compared to diesels
Weren't the cars empty when going up the hill and back to the mine? You said the trains were long. Was that the toughest pull with a long set of empty cars, or was it at the mine site with full cars? I saw 229 and 225 yesterday. On a road trip combining searching for cool trains and for cool waterfalls. I'll go to the Duluth train museum later this summer. I think they have a sister Yellowstone. And they'll have the answer to my questions. Our family lived in Duluth for a couple of years way back. Our father took us kids out of school to go see the last run. I was maybe in 2nd grade. In a red and white Plymouth station wagon. With hand crank windows. And a good heater!
The Northern Pacific developed the Yellowstone engine for Glendive to Mandan, specifically through the badlands, hence the name because it was on the Yellowstone division, The NP had 12 Yellowstone engines that were later used for pusher service. None of the NP Yellowstones have survived, back then it was talked about building mainline on the Zap sub to Fairfield Montana and if it was cheaper to build mainline than order 12 new steam engines, the NP would have done that rather than buy the Yellowstones, or so i read in an NP magazine.
Can blame them. Those loco's weren't cheap!
The Northern Pacific came up with the 2-8-8-4. Theirs had 184sq ft of grate area, largest ever on steam. Bruce, "The Steam Locomotive in America."
2-6-6-6 Allegheny is said to have an axle load of 80,000 lb per axle.
One predecessor for the DMIR was the Western Pacifics 250 class 2-8-8-2
Yes, but the grate on the original Yellowstone was detrimental. The Loco's steam development was all over the place because they had trouble keeping the fire hot enough. They wound up blocking off the first several feet of the grate.. That solved the problem, and all subsequent Yellowstone had the smaller grate area. Allegheny's axel load is the highest I have ever seen.
True. Nice to know someone else knows steam. Too many dont. Im a train geek.
@@dannyhonn973 I do know quite a bit, but I am also always still learning.. And that will never end. Thank you for being here!
The Z-5 needed a huge grate area because the NP burned the worst excuse for coal that exists. Just imagine what kind of power that boiler would have produced burning real coal!
The Yellowstones win for me as the real powerlifters of the locomotive world, not even single unit diesel and electric locomotives have achieved the 18,000 tonne record.
My mount Rushmore of locomotives would rank as: 4; UP Big Boy, 3; Allegheny, 2; N&W Y6b, 1; DM&IR Yellowstone.
The rigid Texas type of the DM&IR are beasts as well.
If you ask me..Diesels are a joke compared to the ability of Articulated Steam Loco's at the end of the era. Diesel's only advantage..and it's huge.. Is it's cookie cutter maintenance and fuel efficiency. Pulling power... they're a joke. 4-8-4's and Heavy Mikes could even surpass a majority of diesel's in one for one pulling ability.
The “magic” of the diesel locomotive is not found in their power plants but in their electrical transmissions and the resultant adhesion. It is very difficult for a mechanical transmission that exerts 2 power impulses per wheel revolution to compete with the steady magnetic impulse of an electric motor that is continuously exerted throughout 360 degrees of rotation in the realm of adhesion. The starting tractive effort of a four unit first generation diesel consist is nearly impossible to match with any steam locomotive.
Tractive effort is the real measure of pulling power for a locomotive. Tractive effort is the amount of pulling power available at the drawbar. The DM&IR yellowstones, with 140,000 lbs was certainly the most powerful among the mid 20th century locomotives (the Big Boys, I believe, were rated at 135,000 lbs). The Erie triplex, with 160,000 lbs TE, were the only steam locomotives that I know of, to exceed that number, but were slow and difficult to maintain and operate. There were only four built (three for Erie and one for the Virginian). The production of the Electro-Motive (EMD) SD70MAC, first placed in service in 1994 on the Burlington Northern, were the first single unit diesel locomotive that exceeded the tractive effort of the largest steam locomotives. Most modern AC traction motor diesel locomotives can produce a continuous TE of around 180,000 lbs and a starting TE in excess of 200,000 lbs. I don't know if any railroad has tried to pull an 18000 - 19000 ton train with a single AC diesel locomotive, but I am sure it can be done. It just may not be very practical in today's freight operations. Modern locomotives do have one major advantage. All of the freight cars have roller bearings. Those ore jennies or coal hoppers in the 1940s and 50s, had solid bearings, making them more difficult to start.
I hope I can see the 227 in person someday
Me too!
Hi, great videos, great channel. Looking forward to every new video. Here in Germany it isn´t easy to get some deep infos to these kind of locos. One question: can you tell me please from what engine the whistle in the beginning of your clips is? Thanks and greetings from Germany. I left you a subscription.
It would be a Yellowstone whistle, there are video clips around where you can hear it
WELCOME! Im pleased to hear that you like my content, THANK YOU! The whistle on my opener belongs to the Southern Pacific Daylight number 4449. It is the orange locomotive in one of my video's. Also, a live video can be found here on RUclips. ruclips.net/video/UrxPpKzsDn8/видео.html Thanks again!
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Thanks for your reply!
I saw the 227 and the are event bigger in person than any picture could discribe!
That's a fact!
Great video. If you know, where can I find locomotive diagrams like the one you presented here 4:45?
Mine usually come out of one of my publications. Of which you can obtain usually at a book dealer that sells older publications. We have a massive bookstore in Portland here called Powell's. You can find them online and order those publications. Also, many of the classic railroads have historical societies that have them. I often get them from there as well.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower thank you.
thx
Youre welcome!
Glad to see the Yellowstone getting some love. May not be as fast as a Big Boy, but it'll pull a heavier train, and the Yellowstones fed the steel industry for decades.
Two words... "KEY COG"
Typo fixed. Coffee hadn't kicked in yet 🤦♂️
It's my understanding that the Northern Pacific also had Yellowstone locomotives and during the winter, some of the DMIR Yellowstones where least to the N.P>
Yes you are correct on all accounts :)
Andrew Carnegie owned US Steel which had owned the Duluth and Iron Range while Rockefeller owned the DM&N until he sold it to Carnegie’s US Steel. And the DM&IR were running the Yellowstones until around 1963 and the 227 remained on the active roster, albeit stored in the roundhouse in Proctor, until 1967 according to a book I have.
Rockefeller owned both of the railroads and they operated independently from each until the full merger in 1938. Carnegie is not mentioned in any of my reference material. I also checked local historic records prior to doing the video.. No Carnegie. Would you mind sharing your reference info? Im not saying you're wrong.. There's always more to a story. ALWAYS!
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower
I did a little looking and you were right. Carnegie never owned the D&IR however my main source, “The Missabe Road: The Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range Railway” by Frank A. King, covering from the D&IR’s founding in 1884 and the DM&N’s own founding in the 1890’s through the early-mid 1960’s early diesel era, only mentions Rockefeller owning the DM&N until 1901 but not the D&IR which was owned by Illinois Steel as you mentioned which itself was backed by JP Morgan. I mentioned Carnegie because History Channel’s series “The Men who Built America” mentioned him owning US Steel.
@@MachRacer4 Good stuff! Thank you!
I have a 2-8-8-4 N Scale Yellowstone!
The Erie Triplex hauled 17,912 tons on test. Which is the only comparable figure I'm aware of.
We'll see what I find as we go. I doubt very much that I am going to see 18,000 again.
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower Well surprise surprise! There is another locomotive that matched these 2-8-8-4's load for load and ton for ton. Great Northern's prime ore mover on the Mesabi Range was pulling 180 car trains @ 90 to 95 tons a car when these Yellowstones were still on the drawing table. In 1951 GN increased the length of the ore trains to 200 cars until mid 1953 when Great Northern ceased steam operations on the Iron Range. The GN engine was a most unlikely competitor as it only pencils out to 110,000 lbs tractive effort. The locomotives were Great Northern's N-3 2-8-8-0's.
But a total failure as a locomotive.
Certainly the Virginian was. On the Erie the best description I have read is that they were 'spotty.' It's certainly the descriptive I went with... @@Hogger280
AC9 next!
It's on the list!
my railroad
And a good one!
Baldwin Locomotive Co built some "Good" ones huh !! : ))
Indded they did!
12,000 Gallons per hour... that's 3.3 gallons a second 🤯
Absurd and insane!
Thank you, me too. Im tired!
Thanks!😂
Haha.. You're welcome!
Were ther multiple 2-8-8-4 engine models? I thought the only one that existed was the big boy line
Yes there were. Northern Pacific and a make. Southern Pacific did as well. Dm&IR had M3/M4, B & O had a model.
The Big Boys of the Union Pacific had a wheel configuration of 4-8-8-4, the Yellowstone locomotives were 2-8-8-4s.
@@jaedenlyons Yep!
@@jaedenlyons ahh I see I see, the more yk
The 2-6-6-6 should not be compared to the 2/4 -8-8-4's, it was a high speed puller and too heavy on drivers giving it very limited territory.
Disagree .. they were pretty equal in most respects. Including speed
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPower The 2-6-6-6 didn't do well at lower speeds and was too heavy on the drivers - even C&O had to upgrade rail where it ran.
These DM&IR "Yellowstone" Locomotives hold all the North American records for tonnage started and pulled by a single steam locomotive. In the last month of steam operation on the Iron Range the DM&IR crews were allowed to assemble longer than normal ore trains in attempt to set a record and to see what one of these engines would actually pull. The heaviest load recorded was 21,000 tons of ore delivered, and 26,000 tons actual weight with the estimated 300 cars used. I don't think any other road got anywhere close to these figures.
This video clip is titled " DM&IR 222 Last Steam Train on the Iron Range". I'd like to think it was one of these record attempts!
ruclips.net/video/mIvrNHpsjaU/видео.html
That’s incredible, but I do believe it! The DM&IR’s Yellowstones were unbelievable powerful locomotives! I really do feel like they deserved more credit…
Good info!
How many are preserved?
Of the DM&IR , 3 are preserved.. Lake Superior RR Museum,, 1 at proctor, 1 at Two Harbors
@@TheRailroadCrossing-SteamPoweryes! Yellowstone 225 in Proctor, Yellowstone 227 in Duluth at the Lake Superior Railroad Museum, and Yellowstone 229 at Two Harbors, Minnesota
Do a little more research the VIRGINIAN 800 class 2-10-10-2 locomotives regularly pulled loads of 18000 tons and I believe set several records tractive effort was around 147,000 lbf
A VGN 2-10-10-2 pulled 18K tons unassisted?
I merely said I hadn't come across such a number of tonnage, and I doubt that I would. Research is never done.
That's a good question!
The VIRGINIAN 800 Made the same test Like the Big Boys, 30000 tons. If they needed a pusher for starting i don't know. On a regular train 16000tons like 100 Battleship gondolas are maximum.
I have read, the N&W class A pulling 16000-18000 tons of coal in the 1950s. But only on downhill trains.
You need to get all of your facts correct. Superior is in wisconsin. Tower had the original line built to access the rich or in soudan in 1884. !!!!!!
So who built them?
AlCO originally designed them in 1929 for the NP, hence the name "Yellowstone". However, Baldwin built the 18 "Yellowstone's" for the DM&IR.
Baldwin built the DM&IR Yellowstone's :)
Yep! Thanks for letting them know! I did miss that little bit in the video.
Baldwin Locomotives Works in Eddystone, Pennsylvania built the first 8 Yellowstones (220-227) “The M-3 Class” in 1941, and later a subsequent order of 10 additional locomotives in 1943. These were designated “The Class M-4” Yellowstones (228-237) also built by Baldwin
@@jaedenlyons yes
37 tons in 1941? I think you made an error.
I think not. Thanks for the comment
I just don't believe one locomotive could pull 18,000 tons on a 7 mile long 2.2% grade
If it’s the grade I’m thinking of, it probably only hauled empties UP the hill on the way from the port back to the iron range.
I think Dennis is correct.
He is, most of the time they bring loaded trains down the hill, and empties back to the mines, but there are times where they brought limestone and other freight back up, just not quite as high of tonnages
That ist correct. The loaded ore trains going down this Grade. It was more difficult to get the ore cars back up the hill without ore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Yellowstone's were never used on Proctor Hill. Older "Hill Mallets"(2-8-8-2), Texas-Types, Union-Types and Santa-Fe-Types were used to drag empty ore cars up from the ore docks back to Proctor.