Thanks much for taking the time to make this vid. I just came across your channel. I heard my first Mac system in the 1960s when I was stationed in the Military near Seattle, Wa. I never forgot the sound and how it made me feel. Everytime I went to an Audio store I would always listen to their Macs and compare with other brands (Accuphase, Luxman etc). Finally in the early 90s I purchased the Mac Amp and Pre-amp that I still have and enjoy almost daily. I am now almost 82 yrs old, I know there are many good sounding brands out there that are loved by their owners, but Macs are still my favs. Im still on the Mac mailing list and just yesterday I received news of their new Hybrids of solid state and tubes. I will have to find a dealer and have a listen. Maybe you can review one of these models - thanks again for your vid.
While upgrading my system, I was looking and reading about everything but Mcintosh. Then I realized over the years I had been hearing great systems driven by Mcintosh amps. Ended up with Mcintosh MC462. No regrets I love it!
Thomas - congrats, your ability to deliver and convey your thoughts on audio has progressed to the point where I really believe you are the best out there right now. Has been amazing to watch your journey. Please keep sharing your insights with us who share your interest in the hobby.
100% agree. I am a subscriber of most of the good reviewers and Thomas is my favourite. He always talks about the things I want to know when purchasing new gear. Great video as always Thomas!
Totally agree. I first stumbled upon Thomas' cross-town fellow reviewer who owns an audio shop and was first captivated by his reviews. At first, I found that reviewer quite illuminating. Very soon, I discerned a pattern there: his reviews are always clothed in so much vague and circuitous language and always ends without much clarity over what his preference really was. Even his "dislikes" are soft cop-outs (almost always nothing to do with the sound of the gear) as if he didn't want to offend the brands he was selling. Thomas, on the other hand, cuts right to the nuances and always ends with very incisive conclusions supporting his preferences.
I agree. Thomas is wonderful. Our audio community continues to benefit from his great videos, most of his preferences and points of views. Thanks Thomas & keep up the good work.
got my mac's used in the late 70's. they were recommended by a friend that is a electrical engineer. he said that they were built to near military standard. still enjoy them. took them to a mac service center to have them recapped couple years ago. technician told me not to bother. 50 years without being serviced. have gone thru many speakers, turntables etc, but these are still the foundation of my main system.
I would say it depends on what you’re looking for. If you want a “live” sound then go for the AR, it feels like the band is in your living room. If you want HiFi then go for the McIntosh, it’s real high end and you’ll get a perfect sound. Both are absolutely great and fantastic.
Hey Thomas, I wanted to send my thanks to you for adding a/b demo at the end of your video. Most people who wanted to sell something on their channel would invalidate this video making thousands of excuses, but the videos / sounds do translate the content's point of view. Kudos to you and your buddies.
I appreciated the comparison of two relatively high-end tube amps. I looked longingly at McIntosh’s offerings, and I especially like the models with dual Vu meters. Everyone says they hold their value. But they also have configurations that integrate more functions than I want (like DACs), or proprietary connections (like their own transports). If I do find the configuration I want, the price is through the roof. I’m not saying their systems don’t offer value for money, especially in light of the company’s support and customer’s experience of long and trouble-free service; I’m just saying I couldn’t find what I was looking for at a price I was willing (or able) to pay. A critic might say I brought my trouble on myself by trying to use gear from different manufacturers in the same system. If you opt for McIntosh, I can certainly see why people go all in with them. They make upgrading within their own offerings very easy. 🙂
On a side note, I have a Conrad-Johnson tube pre-amp 20 years old. It sounds great. Smoothed out the solid state amp I use with it. No problems. Cost me $795 bucks.
I really appreciate this kind of vid and totally enjoyed seeing the gear and the mcintosh startup. It's very unlikely I'll ever see gear like this in person so for me it was very enjoyable.
Wow you can really hear the difference between those two set ups on your songs at the end. I have to agree with your assessment of the difference between the two sounds signatures. I have a lot of old Macintosh equipment and I tend to like that sound.
Wise words as always, Thomas! I can’t afford either, but now that you showed the McIntosh powering up, I’d have to buy that. I would spend all day turning it off and on, to see the tubes light up and change colour!
Really enjoyed this discussion. I appreciate the discussion of high end audio, and these are two great brands to compare. I'd love to hear the comparison now of AR vs Pass Labs. To me both have a sound that catches my attention in a good way. I always love the look of the 275, but when I heard it at an audio show, I was very disappointed in the sound. It seemed colored and vailed. So it was interesting to hear that they have changed since the 70's. Your description of the AR system suggests to me that it passes more low level information. That is a positive thing for me especially on very well recorded music without a lot of trickery in the mastering. Keep this up. I'll enjoy it and you will get to rediscover your own gear.
Awesome. Yes I’d love to hear some reviews of the 275, 3200, and the AR gear. I would also love to see reviews of Vintage Mac, because a lot of us own them (like me) and don’t have a real reference point with modern day reviewing. I’d tune in all day to that!
This video is officially approved by the RUclips Audiophile Board. :) Enjoyed this - informal experience videos are a great addition to the channel. This passion is all about sharing experiences.
I really enjoyed this conversation about two iconic name brands I could never afford! Love the looks of the Audio Research. I'm still enjoying my entry-level 250 watts/channel Acurrus A250 power amp and P10 preamp I bought new in 1994. That's about as close to high-end gear I'll probably get. I just get better speakers every 10 years or so. But I love learning about all the other hi-end gear that's out there! Thanks for sharing!
I love your videos and would be really interested in hearing more system reviews. Synergy is so important and I’m not good at figuring that out. When you combine cables it’s very complicated .
I had a customer who built a full blown reference Audio Research System. Anniversary reference 600 watt tube monoblocks, two chassis preamp, CD transport, and so on. He paired it with 600lb Duntech speakers. What a great sounding system. Though I carry McIntosh and Mark Levinson, for audio I never had anything high-end enough for him. Sadly he passed away a bit over a year ago. I did get to build his home theater though, a serious undertaking.
Duntech Sovereigns? I heard them once back in the early 90’s, the experience has stayed with me ever since. They were driven by a ME 750 amp as I recall.
@@greenskyrocket Yep, those are the ones. He wanted to upgrade to something higher end too, and I tried to tell him, it doesn't get much higher end than that.
Once upon a time when I was young and an audiophile I'd have loved any of this equipment. In those days I couldn't possibly afford it. It's amazing what becoming an engineer does to you, how drastically it remolds your mind. Setting out to understand sound and acoustics I pretty much lost interest in the equipment. It became a means to an end, it was the system design that mattered. When I became able to afford any of it, it never entered my mind for one second to buy any of it. Instead my adventure in sound went in an entirely different direction. It is remarkable how complicated sound really is and there are so many variables to deal with. Creating something new and entirely different takes a lot of effort but you don't mind if it's a labor if love. Nearly 50 years and I'm still having fun experimenting, adjusting tweaking. I know what I want to hear and I figured out how to get it. The older equipment works just fine for my purposes. Yet I can relive my early days watching you and others who see things as I once did. I'm not being judgmental. In a way I admire your enthusiasm and enjoy watching your adventure, how you explore things and how your views change over time.
@@2HatHudders I have listened to and enjoyed live and recorded music literally all of my life. One of my prize possessions when I was a toddler was a phonograph. There were always musical instruments being played in my house and I began attending live concerts when I was about 5 years old so the sounds of live music heard at concert venues was strongly implanted in my brain and memory. When I was about 12 years old I heard stereophonic sound for the first time and I loved it. That's when I became an audiophile. The industry promised me they were working towards ""concert hall realism" from recordings. When I was 25 and already a well educated scientist and engineer I built a quadraphonic system based on the industry's hype. It was a crushing disappointment. I set out to figure out what was wrong with it, what it needed to do and what it was doing instead.. And when after using the powerful analytical tools I'd acquired in my education I figured it out to my amazement and that's when I threw my audiophile hat in the trash never to be worn again. So I wanted a machine that would create the sound of concert hall realism from a recording in my home and I invented it. Is it easy? No. Is is complicated? Very. Was it expensive? Not by audiophile standards. My interests are mostly classical music but I listen to other genres as well. Most of what is marketed as music today has no interest for me.
I love audio research more myself, because I use to record in a studio and I by nature avoid artificial tonality. But that being said it is nothing bad to say about adding colour. Simply by making it neutral actually enables people to add colour easier. It is easier to add than take away!
I have listened and auditioned many high-end systems for both music and movie (especially music) and will always be resorting back to the Mcintosh gears.
Thank you for your thoughts. I decided on a McIntosh and bought a MC5300 intergraded amp. Very, very happy with it. Please keep posting your insightful videos.
I’ve got a MC2002 from the mid 80s. It is 200 wpc direct coupled, no autoformers. This amp is not warm nor does it have slow bass. It’s clean and clear. I can say because I’ve also got an MC2155 with autoformers. It’s also from mid 80s and it is a touch warm colored. You match them with appropriate speakers and DACs and voila, you have magic.
Thanks Thomas for another great post! I’ve always been around McIntosh gear as that was what my father was in to. So now I too have a McIntosh power amp a MC 162 and pre amp a C39. The only Acoustic Research gear I’ve owned has been their famous old school belt drive turntable and a pair of their old (not so good) book shelve speakers. I’ve never heard or experienced any of their power or preamps! I’m now quite curious and will look for them in the future.
@@immovableobjectify Thank you for pointing that out Brett. I have never seen or heard of Audio Research products before and I apologize for my ignorance this is the first time I have been made aware of them. I will proceed to Google where I will look them up and hopefully become better informed.
In the early 90s I went into my 1st high end audio shop over in Pasadena ca. I herd the AR gear and was HOOKED for life. My jaw dropped and knew I was wrecked :).
You probably went to GNP on Colorado Blvd. I had the exact same experience and have been hooked for life as well. I'd go there at least twice a month, sit for hours at a time listening to different configurations. I found that in the 90's, Transparent interconnects and speaker runs, coupled with Theil speakers was a hard sound to beat. Most of my ARC gear is from that era.
Great video! I almost pulled the trigger on the McIntosh mc275 until I tried the Carver Crimson 275. Jim Clark audio in Chicago gives you 30 days to demo a new unit. If you don’t like it, send it back for a full refund. After two weeks I knew I was keeping the Carver. I love McIntosh, I have the c50 preamp, mc352 amp, Magnepan 1.7i & Klipsch Hersey IV’s, DIY Cornscala’s. I really wanted another McIntosh in the room, but when I heard the Crimson I just did not think the mc275 was worth an extra $2500! I also own a Yamaha p2200 amp that sounds just like the mc352, but I spent 3K more to get the McIntosh looks in the mc352. The yellow meters in the Yamaha just did not move me like the blue McIntosh meters do. Keep up the good work!
Hi Thomas! Love such content from you! While I am more of a desktop nearfield or headphone listener, I very much appreciate such videos. This video is only possible thru lotta time and dollar spend and half a lifetime of experience. Thank you. Maybe one day I will have the space :D
The reason I like one over the other is the transparency... and one is easily much better than the other. This is why I crave an Audio Research and I only enjoy the Macintosh. You can even hear the difference in the RUclips video, it's like a veil has been lifted in front of the music. It's obvious and so impactful.
Hi Thomas, I know that a number of serious audiophiles do not consider sound demos definitive. Yet, using the same recording method, same song, same encoding, we do get impressions which are easily comparable to each other. The system in this video with both amps do convey the scale and the clarity, my favorite two versions so far! Thank you! ; Janos
That audio research combo sounded much more like a fully digital system to me, which came as a complete surprise (even though you already explained about it).
Don't be surprised that the dated LS 25 used had old dryer caps compared to a more current day LS 28 that should of be used then the Caps in the pre would have matched with the ARC 75 series design.
Great video Thomas yep I'm still rocken my old McIntosh amps. I love that old slow bass cause it never gets tiring. I listen to mostly jazz and it plays it so Damm well. McIntosh play jazz so well it really tames the horns and as for the slow bass it gives more definition to the acoustic bass as if you can see the strings. Yeah at times I'd like more air but you can't have everything
Hello, it has always been a dream of mine to own a Mcintosh audio amp of any type. Unfortunately marriage to a widow with 6 children put many things as a priority before a sound system. I’m 55 years old now and I still hope and dream to someday get a Macintosh Labs product. Even if it is broken, I have the ability to fix such things. I have been fixing gear for over 30 years now, but it is always somebody else’s. Thanks for the wonderful video, your equipment sounds and looks amazing!
Can't say I have lot of experience with Audio Research gear. Few month back I tried the Ref 6 SE with my previous Plinius Reference A300 power amp. It sounded very nice indeed. Great synergy. May get it back one day to try with my current gear!
Each listener has their own perceived sound in home audio equipment. We should respect their opinions about their own own systems or a new piece of gear. And they should respect our perceived listening experiences as well. I have not listened to Macintosh equipment since the 1960s and it was so overly warm I never wanted to hear their products again but now I am going to set up an appointment for a sit down. Currently I am using PASS phono and line stage preamps with an Audio Research amp driving Maggie 3.6 speakers and a carver true subwoofer. The only thing I really need to add is a second subwoofer and I am considering selling the Carver and moving over to 2 REL’s. Thanks for your balanced presentations and opinions. A breath of fresh air.
Love this Thomas! I love my MC402 & C2600 tube! I was using it with a Denafrips Ares ii.. realizing everything was too warm... then i recently moved to a D90SE.... Now with its granular detail its an incredible balance of synergy with the Macs!..... i know you had a video recently about matching and synergy... thats all it comes down to... much of the gear out there today is excellent.. its all about how each match to each other in pleasing the listeners ears
@@dannyng5427 i never said it lacked detail... it is a warm DAC, great depth and soundstage.... because my McIntosh gear is already warmish... the combo was too warm.... D90SE has a different neutral tone and clarity... better balancing the rest of my system
Nice video, I owned one MA7200 with atc20, the mid-range is so well that you can't forget, but it is soft. I will like to try Audio research later. Thanks for your work.
I used to be an audio salesman back in the 70's. I grabbed up a customer trade in on first sight. It was a MC 275. It needed to be refurbished, and was upgraded slightly in the process. Now in the 70's.. I found other tube amps to be slower than the Mac. On a few recordings I found the damping to be a little weak. But, the sound with my KEF 104 AB's could be astounding.
Very interesting comparison, on the sound comparison (with youtube compression), I can CLEARLY hear a MAJOR difference! Audio Research sounds like having MORE REVERB, more open, and sound more like live recording, while McIntosh sound more like studio recording. McIntosh sounds more "natural" to me, but it's impossible to say unless you're in the room!
Thank you very much for your analysis and opinions! I actually agree with observations. I've owned Audio Research gere for twenty years and agree with your statement of it commanding your attention. It very natural and neutral. Thanks again!
I'm following up a comment that I made 10 months ago. I use Pass line stage and phono preamps with an Audio Research amplifier feeding Maggie 3.6 R's. I can honestly say that the system synergy with this combination is outstanding to my ears.
Thomas, wrote here earlier just how much more the Audio Research "lifted the vail in front of the music" vs the Macintish... the obvious increase of transparency over the venerable Macintosh. (Actually saw this video much earlier though.) Well, I watched a few more videos afterwards, did a bit of research, auditioned it and took ownership of an Audio Research 6SE. The transparency and detail is incredible. It certainly will take some time to get used to the articulation of this preamp though. Your video was the catalyst.
I love McIntosh gear, for the sound and for the look but more important they are made in the USA and McIntosh still supports 95% of all the equipment they've made in the past. I think that alone makes McIntosh unique in the high end audio world, right?
I'm amazed I could tell the difference. The AR system is more open and the highs are very visible versus the warmish muted sound of the McIntosh system.
Ditto. Same sentiments here. I was considering getting Mac for the prestige and looks but have gradually moved away from that notion, in favor of other brands. AR is one of my top choices now.
Loved the comparison of both iconic brands, which was hard to do without upsetting hardcore fans of these brands. :) But you nailed it. (five thumbs up) I like both brands. But when I see the meters on Mcintosh, I don't want to see anything else. I am still in the market for a good integrated amp. I am considering Mcintosh, Luxman, Accuphase and Audio Research.
I went from the vintage McIntosh to Threshold, Mark Levison, ASR, then my ears are like old red wine today I returned to the New MA7900. I had few years into tube amps but tired of changing tubes. Anyway, my thought is McIntosh is a overall good system that I can close my eyes and forget about it.
I agree with the “AIR” of Audio Research!!! That is why Audio Research sounds great with Magnapan!!!!! But the modern McIntosh is fabulous!!! I have the C2700 preamp & MC312 power amp!
Hi all - I have an AR D400 MKII solid state amp for summer listening and an AR VT100 tube amp for winter. The tubes run too hot for summer use. Thomas explained their sound qualities well. High definition with great bass. The down side is that male vocals don’t sound all there to me. A little weak in the midrange. Both amps have what Thomas called a a live sound and I like that. Great customer service from ARC.
Very nice video. I too like " color" in my playback electronics, not too much but just enough. Modern Ultra High-end electronics (all those Swiss made stuff) are more like the AR sound. Clean, fast, focus, and neutral sounding. This type of presentation is very captivating. But I also find this "new sound" to be distracting from the essences of the music being played, and directs your focus on the nuances of what the electronics is capable of reproducing. A highly resolving system can be a double-edge sword. To reinforce your point, system synergy is key.
This is a very enjoyable review. The MC275 has long been amongst my favorite amps. The first time I saw and heard one in person I was struck with the audio Cupid's arrow. Particularly the limited edition in the gold chassis- beautiful. I listened for hours, spinning vinyl. On a veiled test, I probably wouldn't be so enamored with the sound, but it's visual presentation put it over the top and had me drooling. Since that first encounter, I considered many times about getting one for myself, which would be a good pairing for many of my high efficiency speakers, but I've always settled on solid state and liked those type of Class A amps that give the very organic warm sound that many people think about when thinking about tubes- but without the hassle (or joy for some) of having to mess with tubes. Also, I typically want pore power on tap, since I rotate speakers a lot and need a bit more juice to drive those lower efficiency speakers. The AR amp looks very interesting as well, although never having experienced one, I would still consider it regardless of it's different sound signature because I like one type of sound for a while, then switch out amps to go with a totally different type of sound (gravitating back to warm and colored mostly). The AR looks great also. Visual presentation adds a lot to the enjoyment of the gear. Nice review!
Thomas, thanks for the great video as usual. Please do review the McIntosh gear you have. If you are reviewing the power amp if you can give some perspective and compare it to some other high end non-McInosh tube amps you may have, that will be really insightful and perhaps demonstrate to those of us who haven’t spent time with Mac gear what makes them so special.
That start up sequence for the MC275 VI was actually just a gimmick they made for the tradeshow debut of the amp. After feedback they got from attendees they decided to make it a real feature. Been thinking about trying tubes in my system again.
Since you own both amps, vintage and modern, it would be nice to see a video comparison between the old MC240 and the recent MC275; how a 50 years of evolution have changed the sound of the McIntosh gear.
"The Edit" Now that's an edit. I really liked it because it had something I have been wanting to see in editing for a while, the change of clothing and kind of keeping the colour coordination within a keeping moment. You should try it more often, its all in the timing. Keep up the good work Thomas..
My system consists of McIntosh MC352 (for the bass) and MC275 Mk VI (for the mids and highs) biamplification, and Audio Research LS28 SE preamplification, with von Schweikert Audio speakers. It's my 7th heaven!
I would love for you to review Bob Carvers relatively new gear. His crimson 350 will will give these Macs a run for its sound.. Would be amazing for you to step out of your usual zone and give these a receive.. keep up the amazing work.
McIntosh gear is as conservative as it gets. This buys you good reliability, excellent resale value, and decent sound. But it doesn't buy you the best possible sound quality. Going all the way back to the early days, Mac stuff was designed to be, first and foremost, rugged and reliable. It was really originally designed for use in commercial applications. The tube power amps run in Class B with very low idling current. This makes the tubes last a long time, but it also generates crossover distortion. McIntosh "cures" this by using gobs and gobs of negative feedback. The output stage, with its cathode coupling provides huge amounts of local feedback around the output stage, which cancels crossover distortion. On top of this, global feedback is also used. The driver stages have to swing the full output signal voltage to make up for the fact that the output stage has virtually no voltage gain. A McIntosh tube amp clips almost like a standard solid state amp. No "soft clipping" in this design. Opinions about what sounds better are just that: opinions. I've owned lots of tube gear, including McIntosh, Marantz, Dynaco, etc., and have heard lots more. I'll take a Marantz 9 over a Mac 275 any day of the week. That just my opinion, and that said, I don't think their stuff is "terrible" by any stretch. Just a bit more show than go. And I may be in a minority here, but I think the styling is downright ugly....glitzy and overdone.
Audio Research amps in the past were more neutral and less colored. Thus they usually sounded more like solid state amps. Especially when compared to something like a McIntosh or Conrad Johnson where both are “warm” or “colored” in general. I remember a tech and reviewer said to me about AR back in the early 90’s “They figured out how to make a tube amp that sounds solid state”
Fascinating to hear the sound clip at the end. First, this track never sounded this good on your budget gear reviews. Second, the AR system lets more low level info through. I heard stuff at the beginning that was just missing in the Mac system (and in other review systems). But the AR does not go clinical as some solid state systems do. While the Topping DAC is likely just fine, it would also be cool to hear that AR system with your reference level DAC.
Yeah - I totally agree, although I do wonder if these two systems were properly level matched. The AR rendering of the music was so much more realistic and lively that it almost made the McIntosh sound broken.
Hi Thomas, thank you for the video worth watching, I hope you will be producing video’s of this calibre in the future. I do agree with you I have owned and listened to many pre amps, but Audio Research Ref3 out performed all of them. I am sorry I sold it, and a good second hand one is hard to get, so I opted to purchase Denafrips Athena. Denafrips Athena is new with warranty and fully balanced, the sound quality is as good as the Audio Research Ref3. Maybe be when you are doing video’s like this should include something like Denafrips Athena and maybe be Rogue Audio M180, so people like us have an option to purchase either second hand highend gear or comparable new one. Thank You.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas just a quick warning, I am told by my audio buddy’s that the newer version of Audio Research gear not as good as earlier one since it has been taken over by a foreign owner. Up to ref 5 is sort after by audiophile’s and I see new ones for sale as second hand quit often. Maybe there’s some truth in what my audio buddy’s are telling me. Same applies to the Mac products.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, did you go and listen to your friends REF 10? What was your opinion on the sound stage and sound quality? I am thinking about getting one so your opinion will be helpful. Thank You.
Would love to hear more about your high end gear Thomas. Always nice to know where this rabbit hole can take you! Preferred the McIntosh sound sample, softer without losing resolution, the AR gear sounds like there is a slight tilt in the upper mids, very focused but also slightly dry to my ears. Both sound quite solid statish, the MC30/40 is sweeter sounding, slightly more up my street if you don't need the power! Still wow 👌 👏
Very different sounding systems. I think my ears prefer the McIntosh but something in between the two would be best. One sounds a bit under detailed, the other a bit too busy. Maybe what I already have is the best choice for me 🤔
Okk The LS10 is a solid state classic from ARC, it’s super musical, and brings all the music to the soundstage, precise, clear, transparent and yet kicks butt on the low end. And the D240 MkII is a 120W/8ohm 240W/4ohm sweet and punchy amp classic. Frankly I can’t be bothered trying tube amps now, my systems have stabilized on greatness. No more Line Magnetics or even Finale a fine Canadian tube company products… nor 845 or 805 and the only sound I’d like to hear again is a good KT88.
It would be cool to have audio meetups or clubs where you take turns demoing other members equipment. Shame there is nothing like that around. Back in the 60's and 70's it was common for this. But it was more about the music then the equipment in those days
I completely agree but with all the governmental mandates in place and some even afraid to go out, now is not a great time. But as soon as people are no longer scared to live their lives again, I would join that club in a heartbeat! Sorry Thomas but the above was relevant to the issue... hahaha.
As I mentioned in your other video, I have an all Rega system except for......... my prized Audio Research SP14 preamp with an excellent tube phono stage. It replaced my Rega Cursa 3 and the Cursa 3 is not missed. The SP14 in my opinion is a far better sounding preamp that still matches very well with the rest of my Rega system.
Great topic, nothing like controversy to stir the ratings numbers up! So let’s fuel the fire 🔥 I have never liked the McIntosh look or sound. Have heard different things from my friends. I own three pieces of Audio Research gear, the Ref CD9, LS10 pre and D240 MkII power amps. They’re the best I’ve owned and beat my Esoteric and PassLabs gear. Mind you the Luxman M900u takes care of pumping out the cd direct and digital streaming via coaxial through my CD9 outputs via the LS10SE feed, its all about the synergy.
11:09 "A question of taste...my favorite line in audio. It gets me out of trouble every time." Hahaha, just found your channel and love the chill vibes and great info. Looking forward to seeing more. Cheers and greetings from Seattle :)
Definitely some differences in how these two setups presented the sound. I don’t know that I prefer one over the other which means either would work for me. The Mac system seemed that it had slightly more bass but not necessarily in a better way. The AR system seemed a little more forward in presentation with a quieter background. That whole synergy thing again. It makes me wonder how different things would sound mixing these amps and pre-amps. 🤔
The earlier McIntosh amplifiers just sounded so overly warm I was turned off to them when I listened to the first Dalquist DQ 10 speakers being driven by my friends Macintosh Amp. I immediately purchased a pair of the Dalquist’s but I owned an SP3-1 B and a D-76 amp which sounded so wonderful that I gave up on Macintosh a long time ago. I haven’t really listened to Macintosh gear since then but I guess with so many fans of Mac’s I need to get to an audio salon to hear what they sound like now. I’m sure I would probably enjoy them immensely. Sid Smith may have been the turning point designer in the new Mac sound but I’m talking off the top of my head right now.
@chaiya miyaya Mark and I were friends for about a year in New York City. He was certainly ahead of the curve and still is even though he resides on an island of New Zealand. With regard to Macintosh, I have always been a fan of Audio Research when it comes to tube components though there are soo many great companies that have stunning products with stunning sound. I don’t get it with Macintosh if you you’re telling me that the latest Mac components have the same overly warm honey like presentation. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks much for taking the time to make this vid. I just came across your channel. I heard my first Mac system in the 1960s when I was stationed in the Military near Seattle, Wa. I never forgot the sound and how it made me feel. Everytime I went to an Audio store I would always listen to their Macs and compare with other brands (Accuphase, Luxman etc). Finally in the early 90s I purchased the Mac Amp and Pre-amp that I still have and enjoy almost daily. I am now almost 82 yrs old, I know there are many good sounding brands out there that are loved by their owners, but Macs are still my favs. Im still on the Mac mailing list and just yesterday I received news of their new Hybrids of solid state and tubes. I will have to find a dealer and have a listen. Maybe you can review one of these models - thanks again for your vid.
While upgrading my system, I was looking and reading about everything but Mcintosh. Then I realized over the years I had been hearing great systems driven by Mcintosh amps. Ended up with Mcintosh MC462. No regrets I love it!
This old but I love
My mc462
Thomas - congrats, your ability to deliver and convey your thoughts on audio has progressed to the point where I really believe you are the best out there right now. Has been amazing to watch your journey. Please keep sharing your insights with us who share your interest in the hobby.
Wow, thank you!
100% agree. I am a subscriber of most of the good reviewers and Thomas is my favourite. He always talks about the things I want to know when purchasing new gear. Great video as always Thomas!
Totally agree. I first stumbled upon Thomas' cross-town fellow reviewer who owns an audio shop and was first captivated by his reviews. At first, I found that reviewer quite illuminating. Very soon, I discerned a pattern there: his reviews are always clothed in so much vague and circuitous language and always ends without much clarity over what his preference really was. Even his "dislikes" are soft cop-outs (almost always nothing to do with the sound of the gear) as if he didn't want to offend the brands he was selling.
Thomas, on the other hand, cuts right to the nuances and always ends with very incisive conclusions supporting his preferences.
I agree. Thomas is wonderful. Our audio community continues to benefit from his great videos, most of his preferences and points of views.
Thanks Thomas & keep up the good work.
got my mac's used in the late 70's. they were recommended by a friend that is a electrical engineer. he said that they were built to near military standard. still enjoy them. took them to a mac service center to have them recapped couple years ago. technician told me not to bother. 50 years without being serviced. have gone thru many speakers, turntables etc, but these are still the foundation of my main system.
I would say it depends on what you’re looking for.
If you want a “live” sound then go for the AR, it feels like the band is in your living room.
If you want HiFi then go for the McIntosh, it’s real high end and you’ll get a perfect sound.
Both are absolutely great and fantastic.
That Audio Research setup is straight-up awesome. Fantastic!
Hey Thomas, I wanted to send my thanks to you for adding a/b demo at the end of your video.
Most people who wanted to sell something on their channel would invalidate this video making thousands of excuses, but the videos / sounds do translate the content's point of view. Kudos to you and your buddies.
I appreciated the comparison of two relatively high-end tube amps. I looked longingly at McIntosh’s offerings, and I especially like the models with dual Vu meters. Everyone says they hold their value. But they also have configurations that integrate more functions than I want (like DACs), or proprietary connections (like their own transports). If I do find the configuration I want, the price is through the roof. I’m not saying their systems don’t offer value for money, especially in light of the company’s support and customer’s experience of long and trouble-free service; I’m just saying I couldn’t find what I was looking for at a price I was willing (or able) to pay. A critic might say I brought my trouble on myself by trying to use gear from different manufacturers in the same system. If you opt for McIntosh, I can certainly see why people go all in with them. They make upgrading within their own offerings very easy. 🙂
Great video Thomas. Love hearing your stories. Nice to see mini videos of your friends' systems integrated in here! Cheers from France.
On a side note, I have a Conrad-Johnson tube pre-amp 20 years old. It sounds great. Smoothed out the solid state amp I use with it. No problems. Cost me $795 bucks.
"We do stuff just for fun"! I absolutely agree that a big part of listening to music & equipment should be fun!
I really appreciate this kind of vid and totally enjoyed seeing the gear and the mcintosh startup. It's very unlikely I'll ever see gear like this in person so for me it was very enjoyable.
Wow you can really hear the difference between those two set ups on your songs at the end. I have to agree with your assessment of the difference between the two sounds signatures. I have a lot of old Macintosh equipment and I tend to like that sound.
Definitely review the high end gear! You present content very well like the amp that demands your attention!!
Wise words as always, Thomas! I can’t afford either, but now that you showed the McIntosh powering up, I’d have to buy that. I would spend all day turning it off and on, to see the tubes light up and change colour!
Really enjoyed this discussion. I appreciate the discussion of high end audio, and these are two great brands to compare.
I'd love to hear the comparison now of AR vs Pass Labs. To me both have a sound that catches my attention in a good way. I always love the look of the 275, but when I heard it at an audio show, I was very disappointed in the sound. It seemed colored and vailed. So it was interesting to hear that they have changed since the 70's.
Your description of the AR system suggests to me that it passes more low level information. That is a positive thing for me especially on very well recorded music without a lot of trickery in the mastering.
Keep this up. I'll enjoy it and you will get to rediscover your own gear.
Awesome. Yes I’d love to hear some reviews of the 275, 3200, and the AR gear. I would also love to see reviews of Vintage Mac, because a lot of us own them (like me) and don’t have a real reference point with modern day reviewing. I’d tune in all day to that!
This video is officially approved by the RUclips Audiophile Board. :)
Enjoyed this - informal experience videos are a great addition to the channel. This passion is all about sharing experiences.
I really enjoyed this conversation about two iconic name brands I could never afford! Love the looks of the Audio Research. I'm still enjoying my entry-level 250 watts/channel Acurrus A250 power amp and P10 preamp I bought new in 1994. That's about as close to high-end gear I'll probably get. I just get better speakers every 10 years or so. But I love learning about all the other hi-end gear that's out there!
Thanks for sharing!
Those Acurus/Aragon amps were built like tanks by Mondial Designs back then… (!).
I have the Acurus A200 and A200x3. Love it. Still works great.
Thanks Thomas for another excellent share. Yes - please - I vote for more ARC and McIntosh discussions. Greetings to you and yours
I love your videos and would be really interested in hearing more system reviews. Synergy is so important and I’m not good at figuring that out. When you combine cables it’s very complicated .
I had a customer who built a full blown reference Audio Research System. Anniversary reference 600 watt tube monoblocks, two chassis preamp, CD transport, and so on. He paired it with 600lb Duntech speakers. What a great sounding system. Though I carry McIntosh and Mark Levinson, for audio I never had anything high-end enough for him. Sadly he passed away a bit over a year ago. I did get to build his home theater though, a serious undertaking.
Duntech Sovereigns?
I heard them once back in the early 90’s, the experience has stayed with me ever since.
They were driven by a ME 750 amp as I recall.
@@greenskyrocket Yep, those are the ones. He wanted to upgrade to something higher end too, and I tried to tell him, it doesn't get much higher end than that.
Once upon a time when I was young and an audiophile I'd have loved any of this equipment. In those days I couldn't possibly afford it. It's amazing what becoming an engineer does to you, how drastically it remolds your mind. Setting out to understand sound and acoustics I pretty much lost interest in the equipment. It became a means to an end, it was the system design that mattered. When I became able to afford any of it, it never entered my mind for one second to buy any of it. Instead my adventure in sound went in an entirely different direction. It is remarkable how complicated sound really is and there are so many variables to deal with. Creating something new and entirely different takes a lot of effort but you don't mind if it's a labor if love. Nearly 50 years and I'm still having fun experimenting, adjusting tweaking. I know what I want to hear and I figured out how to get it. The older equipment works just fine for my purposes. Yet I can relive my early days watching you and others who see things as I once did. I'm not being judgmental. In a way I admire your enthusiasm and enjoy watching your adventure, how you explore things and how your views change over time.
Audio is as subjective as it gets.
@@pedrocols The sound field that reaches your ears is a physical fact. How your brain reacts to what your ears send to it is subjective.
@@markfischer3626 Precisely! Frequencies are frequencies.
I would be curious to understand your tastes regarding sound signature and perhaps what's changed for you as you matured in life? 😊
@@2HatHudders I have listened to and enjoyed live and recorded music literally all of my life. One of my prize possessions when I was a toddler was a phonograph. There were always musical instruments being played in my house and I began attending live concerts when I was about 5 years old so the sounds of live music heard at concert venues was strongly implanted in my brain and memory. When I was about 12 years old I heard stereophonic sound for the first time and I loved it. That's when I became an audiophile. The industry promised me they were working towards ""concert hall realism" from recordings. When I was 25 and already a well educated scientist and engineer I built a quadraphonic system based on the industry's hype. It was a crushing disappointment. I set out to figure out what was wrong with it, what it needed to do and what it was doing instead.. And when after using the powerful analytical tools I'd acquired in my education I figured it out to my amazement and that's when I threw my audiophile hat in the trash never to be worn again. So I wanted a machine that would create the sound of concert hall realism from a recording in my home and I invented it. Is it easy? No. Is is complicated? Very. Was it expensive? Not by audiophile standards. My interests are mostly classical music but I listen to other genres as well. Most of what is marketed as music today has no interest for me.
I love audio research more myself, because I use to record in a studio and I by nature avoid artificial tonality. But that being said it is nothing bad to say about adding colour. Simply by making it neutral actually enables people to add colour easier. It is easier to add than take away!
My friend Mr. Vintage believes the same.
I have listened and auditioned many high-end systems for both music and movie (especially music) and will always be resorting back to the Mcintosh gears.
Thank you for your thoughts. I decided on a McIntosh and bought a MC5300 intergraded amp. Very, very happy with it. Please keep posting your insightful videos.
Good choice!
Interesting Goliath vs Goliath commentary by Thomas. Who needs a Christmas tree with the Macintosh power amp!
I’ve got a MC2002 from the mid 80s. It is 200 wpc direct coupled, no autoformers. This amp is not warm nor does it have slow bass. It’s clean and clear. I can say because I’ve also got an MC2155 with autoformers. It’s also from mid 80s and it is a touch warm colored. You match them with appropriate speakers and DACs and voila, you have magic.
Thanks Thomas for another great post! I’ve always been around McIntosh gear as that was what my father was in to. So now I too have a McIntosh power amp a MC 162 and pre amp a C39. The only Acoustic Research gear I’ve owned has been their famous old school belt drive turntable and a pair of their old (not so good) book shelve speakers. I’ve never heard or experienced any of their power or preamps! I’m now quite curious and will look for them in the future.
Audio Research is a completely different company than Acoustic Research.
@@immovableobjectify Thank you for pointing that out Brett. I have never seen or heard of Audio Research products before and I apologize for my ignorance this is the first time I have been made aware of them. I will proceed to Google where I will look them up and hopefully become better informed.
In the early 90s I went into my 1st high end audio shop over in Pasadena ca. I herd the AR gear and was HOOKED for life. My jaw dropped and knew I was wrecked :).
You probably went to GNP on Colorado Blvd. I had the exact same experience and have been hooked for life as well. I'd go there at least twice a month, sit for hours at a time listening to different configurations. I found that in the 90's, Transparent interconnects and speaker runs, coupled with Theil speakers was a hard sound to beat. Most of my ARC gear is from that era.
Great video! I almost pulled the trigger on the McIntosh mc275 until I tried the Carver Crimson 275. Jim Clark audio in Chicago gives you 30 days to demo a new unit. If you don’t like it, send it back for a full refund. After two weeks I knew I was keeping the Carver. I love McIntosh, I have the c50 preamp, mc352 amp, Magnepan 1.7i & Klipsch Hersey IV’s, DIY Cornscala’s. I really wanted another McIntosh in the room, but when I heard the Crimson I just did not think the mc275 was worth an extra $2500! I also own a Yamaha p2200 amp that sounds just like the mc352, but I spent 3K more to get the McIntosh looks in the mc352. The yellow meters in the Yamaha just did not move me like the blue McIntosh meters do. Keep up the good work!
Hi Thomas! Love such content from you!
While I am more of a desktop nearfield or headphone listener, I very much appreciate such videos. This video is only possible thru lotta time and dollar spend and half a lifetime of experience. Thank you.
Maybe one day I will have the space :D
Would love to see you add the Pass Labs INT25 to the mix next time. Get a new ARC I-50 and have some fun!!
The reason I like one over the other is the transparency... and one is easily much better than the other. This is why I crave an Audio Research and I only enjoy the Macintosh. You can even hear the difference in the RUclips video, it's like a veil has been lifted in front of the music. It's obvious and so impactful.
Hi Thomas, I know that a number of serious audiophiles do not consider sound demos definitive. Yet, using the same recording method, same song, same encoding, we do get impressions which are easily comparable to each other. The system in this video with both amps do convey the scale and the clarity, my favorite two versions so far! Thank you! ; Janos
That audio research combo sounded much more like a fully digital system to me, which came as a complete surprise (even though you already explained about it).
Don't be surprised that the dated LS 25 used had old dryer caps compared to a more current day LS 28 that should of be used then the Caps in the pre would have matched with the ARC 75 series design.
Great video Thomas yep I'm still rocken my old McIntosh amps. I love that old slow bass cause it never gets tiring. I listen to mostly jazz and it plays it so Damm well. McIntosh play jazz so well it really tames the horns and as for the slow bass it gives more definition to the acoustic bass as if you can see the strings. Yeah at times I'd like more air but you can't have everything
Yup, you have a kick ass system.
Hello, it has always been a dream of mine to own a Mcintosh audio amp of any type. Unfortunately marriage to a widow with 6 children put many things as a priority before a sound system. I’m 55 years old now and I still hope and dream to someday get a Macintosh Labs product. Even if it is broken, I have the ability to fix such things. I have been fixing gear for over 30 years now, but it is always somebody else’s. Thanks for the wonderful video, your equipment sounds and looks amazing!
Can't say I have lot of experience with Audio Research gear. Few month back I tried the Ref 6 SE with my previous Plinius Reference A300 power amp. It sounded very nice indeed. Great synergy. May get it back one day to try with my current gear!
Each listener has their own perceived sound in home audio equipment. We should respect their opinions about their own own systems or a new piece of gear. And they should respect our perceived listening experiences as well. I have not listened to Macintosh equipment since the 1960s and it was so overly warm I never wanted to hear their products again but now I am going to set up an appointment for a sit down. Currently I am using PASS phono and line stage preamps with an Audio Research amp driving Maggie 3.6 speakers and a carver true subwoofer. The only thing I really need to add is a second subwoofer and I am considering selling the Carver and moving over to 2 REL’s.
Thanks for your balanced presentations and opinions. A breath of fresh air.
Love this Thomas! I love my MC402 & C2600 tube! I was using it with a Denafrips Ares ii.. realizing everything was too warm... then i recently moved to a D90SE.... Now with its granular detail its an incredible balance of synergy with the Macs!..... i know you had a video recently about matching and synergy... thats all it comes down to... much of the gear out there today is excellent.. its all about how each match to each other in pleasing the listeners ears
I own Ares II and I didn't find it lacks detail.
@@dannyng5427 i never said it lacked detail... it is a warm DAC, great depth and soundstage.... because my McIntosh gear is already warmish... the combo was too warm.... D90SE has a different neutral tone and clarity... better balancing the rest of my system
Its all relative, put it against the D90se and there is more detail. Mind you, the Ares II has plenty of detail already.
Nice video, I owned one MA7200 with atc20, the mid-range is so well that you can't forget, but it is soft. I will like to try Audio research later. Thanks for your work.
I rather enjoy direct comparisons. One rarely sees this type of review. Good job and thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Great video, down to earth discussion of your likes. Loved it.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I used to be an audio salesman back in the 70's. I grabbed up a customer trade in on first sight. It was a MC 275. It needed to be refurbished, and was upgraded slightly in the process. Now in the 70's.. I found other tube amps to be slower than the Mac. On a few recordings I found the damping to be a little weak. But, the sound with my KEF 104 AB's could be astounding.
Very interesting comparison, on the sound comparison (with youtube compression), I can CLEARLY hear a MAJOR difference! Audio Research sounds like having MORE REVERB, more open, and sound more like live recording, while McIntosh sound more like studio recording. McIntosh sounds more "natural" to me, but it's impossible to say unless you're in the room!
Great point!
One thing is for sure the Audio Research sounds louder.
I enjoy all your videos Thomas. Thank you. I think I’m learning something with each one that I watch 😀
Glad you like them!
Thank you very much for your analysis and opinions! I actually agree with observations. I've owned Audio Research gere for twenty years and agree with your statement of it commanding your attention. It very natural and neutral. Thanks again!
The very first stand-alone power amplifier I ever bought was an Audio Research D-100 (maybe the D-100B model). I liked it a lot for what it was.
I had one of those. Fabulous match with Acoustic Energy AE1's.
Should change the channel name to Thomas' Storytelling. 😂😂 Good stuff
Hahaha
I'm following up a comment that I made 10 months ago. I use Pass line stage and phono preamps with an Audio Research amplifier feeding Maggie 3.6 R's. I can honestly say that the system synergy with this combination is outstanding to my ears.
Nice.
You do you, Thomas.
Good stuff as always.
Switching on the Mcintosh is like looking at a Christmas tree with all the lights blinking!
Thomas, wrote here earlier just how much more the Audio Research "lifted the vail in front of the music" vs the Macintish... the obvious increase of transparency over the venerable Macintosh. (Actually saw this video much earlier though.)
Well, I watched a few more videos afterwards, did a bit of research, auditioned it and took ownership of an Audio Research 6SE.
The transparency and detail is incredible. It certainly will take some time to get used to the articulation of this preamp though.
Your video was the catalyst.
I love McIntosh gear, for the sound and for the look but more important they are made in the USA and McIntosh still supports 95% of all the equipment they've made in the past. I think that alone makes McIntosh unique in the high end audio world, right?
And they keep their value.
AR is designed and built in Maple Grove Minnesota, USA. And they also support many of their older models.
Just like AR.
@@ThomasAndStereo this is the.most important part to be honest.
@@2HatHudders are you a flipper? Or why is that more important to you than the actual sound quality?
I'm amazed I could tell the difference. The AR system is more open and the highs are very visible versus the warmish muted sound of the McIntosh system.
Ditto.
Same sentiments here. I was considering getting Mac for the prestige and looks but have gradually moved away from that notion, in favor of other brands. AR is one of my top choices now.
Loved the comparison of both iconic brands, which was hard to do without upsetting hardcore fans of these brands. :) But you nailed it. (five thumbs up) I like both brands. But when I see the meters on Mcintosh, I don't want to see anything else. I am still in the market for a good integrated amp. I am considering Mcintosh, Luxman, Accuphase and Audio Research.
The best amplifier is the one which results in a great match with certain speaker. It is about finding system synergy.
I went from the vintage McIntosh to Threshold, Mark Levison, ASR, then my ears are like old red wine today I returned to the New MA7900. I had few years into tube amps but tired of changing tubes. Anyway, my thought is McIntosh is a overall good system that I can close my eyes and forget about it.
My MAC6700 is my first stereo amp and it remains my one and only stereo amp. 🤘🏻
I agree with the “AIR” of Audio Research!!! That is why Audio Research sounds great with Magnapan!!!!! But the modern McIntosh is fabulous!!! I have the C2700 preamp & MC312 power amp!
Hi all - I have an AR D400 MKII solid state amp for summer listening and an AR VT100 tube amp for winter. The tubes run too hot for summer use.
Thomas explained their sound qualities well. High definition with great bass. The down side is that male vocals don’t sound all there to me. A little weak in the midrange. Both amps have what Thomas called a a live sound and I like that. Great customer service from ARC.
Very nice video. I too like " color" in my playback electronics, not too much but just enough. Modern Ultra High-end electronics (all those Swiss made stuff) are more like the AR sound. Clean, fast, focus, and neutral sounding. This type of presentation is very captivating. But I also find this "new sound" to be distracting from the essences of the music being played, and directs your focus on the nuances of what the electronics is capable of reproducing. A highly resolving system can be a double-edge sword. To reinforce your point, system synergy is key.
I have the ARC ls17 pre together with a Mcintosh mc302, a match made in heaven,best of both worlds.
This is a very enjoyable review. The MC275 has long been amongst my favorite amps. The first time I saw and heard one in person I was struck with the audio Cupid's arrow. Particularly the limited edition in the gold chassis- beautiful. I listened for hours, spinning vinyl. On a veiled test, I probably wouldn't be so enamored with the sound, but it's visual presentation put it over the top and had me drooling. Since that first encounter, I considered many times about getting one for myself, which would be a good pairing for many of my high efficiency speakers, but I've always settled on solid state and liked those type of Class A amps that give the very organic warm sound that many people think about when thinking about tubes- but without the hassle (or joy for some) of having to mess with tubes. Also, I typically want pore power on tap, since I rotate speakers a lot and need a bit more juice to drive those lower efficiency speakers. The AR amp looks very interesting as well, although never having experienced one, I would still consider it regardless of it's different sound signature because I like one type of sound for a while, then switch out amps to go with a totally different type of sound (gravitating back to warm and colored mostly). The AR looks great also. Visual presentation adds a lot to the enjoyment of the gear. Nice review!
Thomas, thanks for the great video as usual. Please do review the McIntosh gear you have. If you are reviewing the power amp if you can give some perspective and compare it to some other high end non-McInosh tube amps you may have, that will be really insightful and perhaps demonstrate to those of us who haven’t spent time with Mac gear what makes them so special.
That start up sequence for the MC275 VI was actually just a gimmick they made for the tradeshow debut of the amp. After feedback they got from attendees they decided to make it a real feature. Been thinking about trying tubes in my system again.
Well you Kanta are easy to drive so getting a tube amp is a good idea to experiment.
Since you own both amps, vintage and modern, it would be nice to see a video comparison between the old MC240 and the recent MC275; how a 50 years of evolution have changed the sound of the McIntosh gear.
I am considering this exact mac system. Thank you Thomas would love a review.
Today's video is really amazing! I hope you do more of such video :) Feels like I have more audiophile friends haha
"The Edit" Now that's an edit. I really liked it because it had something I have been wanting to see in editing for a while, the change of clothing and kind of keeping the colour coordination within a keeping moment. You should try it more often, its all in the timing. Keep up the good work Thomas..
My system consists of McIntosh MC352 (for the bass) and MC275 Mk VI (for the mids and highs) biamplification, and Audio Research LS28 SE preamplification, with von Schweikert Audio speakers. It's my 7th heaven!
Hey !! ...Just found your channel. !! ..Really appreciate your clear sound gear description....Keep up the great style & work..
I would love for you to review Bob Carvers relatively new gear. His crimson 350 will will give these Macs a run for its sound.. Would be amazing for you to step out of your usual zone and give these a receive.. keep up the amazing work.
I don't own either but I definitely enjoy the iconic look of the McIntosh. Audio Research is too serious looking for me.
I think Mcintosh has the best meters.
Once you hand over the cash for the McIntosh trust me, your face will have a very serious look on it 😣
Yes, as serious as a staunch Professor🎓 😉👍
FFS, dumbest thing I’ve read today. ARC smokes Mac e v e r y day of the week.
I quite like the look of the Accuphase Amps too
McIntosh gear is as conservative as it gets. This buys you good reliability, excellent resale value, and decent sound. But it doesn't buy you the best possible sound quality. Going all the way back to the early days, Mac stuff was designed to be, first and foremost, rugged and reliable. It was really originally designed for use in commercial applications. The tube power amps run in Class B with very low idling current. This makes the tubes last a long time, but it also generates crossover distortion. McIntosh "cures" this by using gobs and gobs of negative feedback. The output stage, with its cathode coupling provides huge amounts of local feedback around the output stage, which cancels crossover distortion. On top of this, global feedback is also used. The driver stages have to swing the full output signal voltage to make up for the fact that the output stage has virtually no voltage gain. A McIntosh tube amp clips almost like a standard solid state amp. No "soft clipping" in this design. Opinions about what sounds better are just that: opinions. I've owned lots of tube gear, including McIntosh, Marantz, Dynaco, etc., and have heard lots more. I'll take a Marantz 9 over a Mac 275 any day of the week. That just my opinion, and that said, I don't think their stuff is "terrible" by any stretch. Just a bit more show than go. And I may be in a minority here, but I think the styling is downright ugly....glitzy and overdone.
My MA252 is crazy good. Specially considering is nowhere near the usual Mac prices
Audio Research amps in the past were more neutral and less colored. Thus they usually sounded more like solid state amps. Especially when compared to something like a McIntosh or Conrad Johnson where both are “warm” or “colored” in general.
I remember a tech and reviewer said to me about AR back in the early 90’s “They figured out how to make a tube amp that sounds solid state”
Fascinating to hear the sound clip at the end. First, this track never sounded this good on your budget gear reviews. Second, the AR system lets more low level info through. I heard stuff at the beginning that was just missing in the Mac system (and in other review systems). But the AR does not go clinical as some solid state systems do. While the Topping DAC is likely just fine, it would also be cool to hear that AR system with your reference level DAC.
Yeah - I totally agree, although I do wonder if these two systems were properly level matched. The AR rendering of the music was so much more realistic and lively that it almost made the McIntosh sound broken.
Hi Thomas, thank you for the video worth watching, I hope you will be producing video’s of this calibre in the future. I do agree with you I have owned and listened to many pre amps, but Audio Research Ref3 out performed all of them. I am sorry I sold it, and a good second hand one is hard to get, so I opted to purchase Denafrips Athena. Denafrips Athena is new with warranty and fully balanced, the sound quality is as good as the Audio Research Ref3. Maybe be when you are doing video’s like this should include something like Denafrips Athena and maybe be Rogue Audio M180, so people like us have an option to purchase either second hand highend gear or comparable new one. Thank You.
Wow, Denafrips Athena is that good! My friend just bought the REF 10 and I am so excited and wanting to go listen.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas just a quick warning, I am told by my audio buddy’s that the newer version of Audio Research gear not as good as earlier one since it has been taken over by a foreign owner. Up to ref 5 is sort after by audiophile’s and I see new ones for sale as second hand quit often. Maybe there’s some truth in what my audio buddy’s are telling me. Same applies to the Mac products.
@@ThomasAndStereo Hi Thomas, did you go and listen to your friends REF 10? What was your opinion on the sound stage and sound quality? I am thinking about getting one so your opinion will be helpful. Thank You.
I have a MC-240 and MX-110. I’d love to see a video of your MC-240 setup and pairing!
Would love to hear more about your high end gear Thomas. Always nice to know where this rabbit hole can take you! Preferred the McIntosh sound sample, softer without losing resolution, the AR gear sounds like there is a slight tilt in the upper mids, very focused but also slightly dry to my ears. Both sound quite solid statish, the MC30/40 is sweeter sounding, slightly more up my street if you don't need the power! Still wow 👌 👏
Audio Research seems to have less background noise too. Sounds much better.
Very different sounding systems. I think my ears prefer the McIntosh but something in between the two would be best. One sounds a bit under detailed, the other a bit too busy. Maybe what I already have is the best choice for me 🤔
Well done Thomas a great video given you used your phone.
And very interesting comments. I enjoyed this one a lot.😁
Cell phones today are crazy good.
Okk
The LS10 is a solid state classic from ARC, it’s super musical, and brings all the music to the soundstage, precise, clear, transparent and yet kicks butt on the low end. And the D240 MkII is a 120W/8ohm 240W/4ohm sweet and punchy amp classic. Frankly I can’t be bothered trying tube amps now, my systems have stabilized on greatness. No more Line Magnetics or even Finale a fine Canadian tube company products… nor 845 or 805 and the only sound I’d like to hear again is a good KT88.
But I’m in no rush to hear anything else… maybe I should post some of my current and past system’s recordings.
It would be cool to have audio meetups or clubs where you take turns demoing other members equipment. Shame there is nothing like that around. Back in the 60's and 70's it was common for this. But it was more about the music then the equipment in those days
Yeah, that would be awesome.
I completely agree but with all the governmental mandates in place and some even afraid to go out, now is not a great time.
But as soon as people are no longer scared to live their lives again, I would join that club in a heartbeat!
Sorry Thomas but the above was relevant to the issue... hahaha.
If I had the money and could pick only one brand I'd pick Audio Research. But certainly not be unhappy with Mcintosh gear!
It’s about time I saw a turntable in your stuff
As I mentioned in your other video, I have an all Rega system except for......... my prized Audio Research SP14 preamp with an excellent tube phono stage. It replaced my Rega Cursa 3 and the Cursa 3 is not missed. The SP14 in my opinion is a far better sounding preamp that still matches very well with the rest of my Rega system.
Another great video Thomas!! Yes, please review the MC275.
Will do!
I’d love a review of McIntosh integrateds!
Great topic, nothing like controversy to stir the ratings numbers up! So let’s fuel the fire 🔥 I have never liked the McIntosh look or sound. Have heard different things from my friends. I own three pieces of Audio Research gear, the Ref CD9, LS10 pre and D240 MkII power amps. They’re the best I’ve owned and beat my Esoteric and PassLabs gear. Mind you the Luxman M900u takes care of pumping out the cd direct and digital streaming via coaxial through my CD9 outputs via the LS10SE feed, its all about the synergy.
Fantastic discussion. Like a Master course at a top university. You just upgraded to associate professor…
Wow, thanks!
What? I thought all the gear you review is your gear. Now I don’t feel so bad, thinking “ I need more gear, look at Thomas”.
Cool video
11:09 "A question of taste...my favorite line in audio. It gets me out of trouble every time." Hahaha, just found your channel and love the chill vibes and great info. Looking forward to seeing more. Cheers and greetings from Seattle :)
Welcome aboard!
Definitely some differences in how these two setups presented the sound. I don’t know that I prefer one over the other which means either would work for me. The Mac system seemed that it had slightly more bass but not necessarily in a better way. The AR system seemed a little more forward in presentation with a quieter background. That whole synergy thing again. It makes me wonder how different things would sound mixing these amps and pre-amps. 🤔
wow thats a close call, to me the instruments sounded better on the mac, but the vocals were better on the ar. thank you
The earlier McIntosh amplifiers just sounded so overly warm I was turned off to them when I listened to the first Dalquist DQ 10 speakers being driven by my friends Macintosh Amp. I immediately purchased a pair of the Dalquist’s but I owned an SP3-1 B and a D-76 amp which sounded so wonderful that I gave up on Macintosh a long time ago. I haven’t really listened to Macintosh gear since then but I guess with so many fans of Mac’s I need to get to an audio salon to hear what they sound like now. I’m sure I would probably enjoy them immensely. Sid Smith may have been the turning point designer in the new Mac sound but I’m talking off the top of my head right now.
@chaiya miyaya Mark and I were friends for about a year in New York City. He was certainly ahead of the curve and still is even though he resides on an island of New Zealand. With regard to Macintosh, I have always been a fan of Audio Research when it comes to tube components though there are soo many great companies that have stunning products with stunning sound. I don’t get it with Macintosh if you you’re telling me that the latest Mac components have the same overly warm honey like presentation. Thanks for the heads up.
Great video Thomas.
I Think you would love the sound of Gryphon amps.