It’s really not that bad don’t get me wrong it’s not good it’s just not bad like let’s be real ur just mad u lost the minus 1 damage but with most weapons damages going down it’s like it never left it’s not the worst codex we’ve seen and every army has had nerf so it’s not bad
@@zachyqaddoumi2991From what I've seen and personally feel is that they have lost the fluff of being more difficult to kill than other armies. Disgustingly resilient has always been their thing and now it is only a stratagem which is worse than many other factions version of the same stratagem.
As a Dark Angel player, my Deathwing Knights have damage reduce by 1, +1 to Wounds because of Shields, +4 FNP against mortals once per game, and I can give them an additional -1 dmg to them in melee. I feel like Death Guard should have what my guys have and then some.
@@ReynardCalcifiusno, there's isn't the same. It has to be used after someone charges. They can't use it on a non-charged combat, and they can't wait until the opponent uses their offensive strategem. Still don't think it's worth 2 CP without being able to reduce damage to zero, but at the very least it does some things the Dark Angel one doesn't
Death Guard is Tycho’s main army, so he is expected to have most of the input on their new rules. Mubin was more involved speaking about Tzeentch or Khorne in the earlier video and I think just a co-host here as the other Chaos player.
new death guard is to use rhino to move, use helbrutes and defilers for anti armor, and then use the rest of your list as fodder to keep the important units alive, which is any unit that isnt even from the death guard. Wow very fun. Nurgle demons are just more fun in 10th edition, why bother anymore
I guess it's time for a dedicated Death Guard Dreadnought. Just a leviathan dread, but bigger and bulkier, because Nurgle, with all sorts of weaponry. That way you won't need non-Death guard units
@@alfadasfire Well, then I have good news for you! Death Guard did have a dedicated Contemptor. The bad news is GW doesn't make it anymore--just the torso.
I totally agree, feels so damn annoying that the primarch who was known for his durability before being made a daemon primarch, has now been made less tough than the little [REDACTED] who got his spine broken
@@jonathanbrindley3592 what are you talking about? Magnus only does 3 damage, and unlike mortys fnp, magnus has to activate his -1 damage instead of his other auras. Morty has higher toughness, can ignore his own degredation, and can choose his auras while still remaining tough, while magnus has to choose between tankiness and damage. Not to mention, mortarion is way cheaper.
Points that can be changed with the press of a button. We are beta testing the thing for em. Not a great look but it is as it has always been. . .except that changes are coming faster than ever!
Love hearing Tycho staying positive but not avoiding the issues. I am still excited to play DG in 10th as despite the changing I think there is a few play styles in the army now.
From what I've heard from a couple of regular DG players, they're not performing that bad. I'm getting suggestions that poxers and various termies do a lot of heavy lifting.
well, if the enemy doesn't just kill you with mortals, you might have a chance if you just make like 90% of your 4++ saves on the terminators. sadly otherwise you have no chance against any other index exept votan and maybe addmech.
I don't really think the issue is that there are no good things about the DG. I just think they because have lost their identity in rules and virtually every other faction has rules that were the major part of DG identity seems like the developers were throwing DG under the bus so to speak. I am not gonna lie, I have not been terribly fond so far of what I have seen this new edition but I had tried to stay positive about it, but losing identity through rules I think is kind of rude to the people who have known them as such. Mubin, it's okay to say more words. And Tycho I always appreciate your energy and enthusiasm.
@@tychoimmega9741 thing is I converted AND painted all 10 of them. And I loved them in 9th. They were the bane of my opponents existence during our Crusade campaign. But now they are gone... gone with the plague wind... ;_;
Really like the back and forth on this one - very analytical for a faction I've heard alot of humdrum about, I'm really interested to see Tycho's new lists!
Sadly they seem under tuned. None of the major themes of the army work with each other. Finally the lack of being "tanky" make the army feel nothing like its lore. I personally will not be finishing my DG army this edition. Probably will use a unit or two of Plague marines in my CSM list.
I love that while acknowledging the faults Tycho still finds postitives. Didn't expect anything less. Also one of the few people with a decent following to even admit this index kinda sucks so good on him for staying real.
I think there has been a lot of shilling for Death Guard by GW supported channels. Has anyone seen the AP of the xenon races? Plague Marines will be the mainstay of this detachment, how many 5+ saves can one make? Not to mention the increase in feel no pain, get back up, reduce damage, and returning models back to life in about any other army that's not the Death Guard. Plus the amount of units which got a Toughness increase is phemnomenial. Then there is the loss of movement, lack of the good characters to support our best units, and the lack of anti vehicle weapons with almost nothing to deal with tough monsters, Mortarion is a joke reduced to just an expensive buff piece that loses to everything in it's weight class. Contagion wouldn't be missed due to all the toughness increases and is almost redundent with lethal hits. Plus all the good stuff you want to have lethal hits for have a 2+ save. And what is any of our AP0/-1 DM 1 going to do. Spread the sickness and the stratagem use is going to be difficult to pull off. Not to mention it says we can move off an objective but if we do, then any unit that touches it, turns it off. He is right about needing transports which will eat a ton of points because their shooting is rather week and you have to be in melee to do any significant damage. Which is a huge tax not to mention not fluffy. And toughness making us resilient makes me laugh! With all the lethal hits, wound whatever on X, and the fact that almost every unit seems to re-roll wounds in some shape or form, T5/6 isn't going to carry the army. New playstyle- Get used to losing a lot. I have played the Death Guard as my only army since they became their own army and this is the worst version yet. 8th edition was rough but War of the Spider breathed some life back into them. 9th was a roller coaster ride but for the most part they were fun to play. This does not look fun. This looks frustrating to play at best. Maybe just maybe that somehow this is an army that looks like crap and turns out to be amazing but from watching Vanguard tactics battle report and the one from the Kanas City Open, the Death Guard isn't going to have enough resources on the board come turns 4/5. Some of the potent gun line armies may cripple them by turn 3. Elder armies will score and avoid the whole army as a whole. Hope the codex has something better and tweeks the data sheets.
sad to hear that death drones are going away, but being more strategic about how aggressive you are and also maintaining and infecting objectives will be an interesting playstyle to witness as a spectator. Seems like with 9th, chaos was able to really move up the board and occupy objectives while being a bullwark (death guard especially) so that may give a nice balance. Those drones were pretty powerful, but they are also gorgeous models. I see black legion and word bearer being played a lot because of the new marks of chaos rules, kinda like the idea of those tzeentch-marked obliterators.
With the massive increase in everyone else's fnps and our lack of and lack of -1 DMG If they update any sticky objectives we get to stay infected until the end of the game just for the purpose of strats ect would that help us ? Love my DG and in very sad that legends alone took 2 K off my total amount of DG
I love that Tycho doesn't do the over reaction doom and gloom. I love how he sees the many positives and the excitement of being pushed out of the cookie cutter rut of the past.
There's a fine line between needing to be positive positive POSITIVE to make GW happy and retaining your integrity by telling the truth about how dogshit death guard are now. They desperately need to be tougher and the battle reports that we've already seen are extremely discouraging as they get absolutely tabled.
maybe he doesnt wanna be a downer the whole video? Why just focus on the shitty parts? Tycho is obviously a very positive and jolly guy, so he admits that there is big negatives but he also likes the army a lot and is enjoying finding a bunch of different ways to play. You are absolutely valid to not enjoy death guard anymore, what GW did to them was borderline criminal, but you dont need to tell someone else to stop having fun if they seem to be enjoying the index when you dont.
GW really just paying all these Warhammer RUclips channels to say nice things about Death Guard after they absolutely butchered their Codex. I wish some of these people would actually just be honest and say the truth is that Death Guard codex is severely broken and under powered compared to every other faction in the game. Sure some of the models have some nice rules but the army as a whole as little to no synergy
Games workshop does not pay us a dime. They do offer early access to their stuff but there is no obligation for us to say anything. Every army is different now. You might find it’s not as bad as you think!
Such an absurd claim. It'd be so much easier and cheaper to just adjust point costs. They don't appear as amazing as I would have liked flavorwise, but balancewise I don't think they're as bad as some people are saying
Tycho, you are the best and most wholesome. I'm so happy to see you take a positive view about them without waving past their clear faults. I hope you can do amazing with them as always and look forward to your games! Blessing of the grandfather upon you child of chaos
10:25 what you're saying about Death Guard having a bit of a weakness against heavy vehicles and monsters is something I'm also really seeing in Orks... unless you're fielding the big walkers or Beast Snagga rigs (OK, getting a liiiittle salty how hard Beast Snaggas are getting pushed.), don't expect to see much past Strength 9, AP -1 or -2.
I recommend you grab a GUO for Deathguard. Another big body and unless it’s FAQ’d should be another -1 to enemy toughness to a model in 12”. Him and Morty could become fast friends really quickly.
I'm not upset with the new Death Guard rules. It's free to download and I can play them straight away in 10th edition. I'd be unhappy if I had to wait years for a codex
look, im with the redditors that the army just doesnt feel disgustingly resiliant anymore, but after seeing the lethal hits in action, im excited that even if the army remains bottom of the barrel competitively speaking, that theres still a new army to learn and adapt to. Im willing to give it a try. Cautiously optimistic. If it were up to me in the rules team, i think there is a comprimise of buffing the army without bringing back -1dmg or army wide fnp. When you think back to being sick in your life, you likely felt just as weak phsyically as you did frail. I think the idea of the nurgle aura also reducing melee strength or ap by 1 would also lean into the army being very dangerous in melee now that were more vulnerable to shooting. I think the AP would be the way to go just because -1 str into our on average higher toughness just fucks up the math a bit too much to be fun to engage with in the game.
Been seeing boundless salt and negativity about DG (and i dont even play þem!) so its nice to see some people pointing out þe postives and talking about how þey might actually play
The 10th ed rules have given me a very fun idea to use infection more as a way to coax fast attack and deep strike in one direction while still having a good stick of points claimed if they don't take the bait If they do, that's when it's the marine and PBCs time to mulch the main enemy cappers Infection seems like a really good way for you to punish not overreaching cappers. Force their hand lest yu get to steal points without needing to camp your Marines all game. Gives a point to cultists and drones as making sure as much territory infected as is possible to get in that position We will see the points situation later today but I'm mostly fine as a new DG player with army still pending. But I see cultists getting a lot of use now with infect in mind and hope is certainly still as present as it always as for drones and haulers thanks to cultists getting to scout and such, if I understand scouting correct. Ranged Marines seem way more important now compared to melee blobs. But they feel more like chas tactical marines now. As far as leaders go it seems it has shifted to daemon princes and lord of virulence. Virulence is very good to deep strike up to main fights but the enhancement/warlord seems the strongest on DP right now.
Auto wounds on 6 with low ap and low damage (very typically ap 0 or -1 and damage 1), you’ll plink off a few wounds but without dedicated anti tank your not killing a tank without a lot of focus fire to kill them with bug bites.
@Surprise and Terror! Depends on the target, a tyranofex will laugh off any d1 weapon. And if you're entire army has to fire at 1 leman russ to maybe kill it, then you're losing the battle. 9th edition strategy of kill things by volume of shots is dead and gone.
Does the contagion zone toughness reduction stack? I think rules as written means that it does, ie, in later game imagine this: if it gets to the 3rd round, you get a radius of 9inch on all your units, and also allowing you with careful placement (ie surrounding units or piling in with multiple units), you can reduce the toughness of enemy units by 1 for EACH of your units in contagion zone? Contagion zone overlap from your units onto an enemy unit is what I'm talking about.
I love your enthousiasm, we don't have points yet but every game we've seen with 9th points, DG is getting absolutley tabled. I would like to add something for what isn't said in the video. -PBC are basicly anti infantry which all other models are as well. There is no anti monster of vehicle (Something that wounds a T12 or higher on a 3+) And the MBH that wounds on a 4+ is cool but just has 3 attacks that hit on 3+. -As said, Mortarion has its own problems -Poxwalkers hit on a 5+ and lose to battleshock, they lost everything that made them good. They're now just wound for Typhus. Needing Rhino's is something I personally dispise and the fact that landraiders are going to be our anti tank just blows my mind. At least our Cultist are usefull now... basicly: "If you wanna play Death Guard, you don't play Death Guard" is a good quote I saw. The standard CSM models are better and more flavourfull somehow... Well, the list goes on and on and on so I'll stop there, have a nice day everyone.
It’s fun to watch someone that loves his army that no matter what happens. Tycho, your awesome! Can’t wait to see you show them DG should still be feared.
MBH get a +1 to wound vehicles, so they punch vehicles harder than you think, I haven't seen anything with T18 so their worst wound roll is 4+ at 48 inches with krak missles. Chaos Lord with Living Plague and a Surgeon in a squad of 10 Plague Marines can hold the middle forever. On turn 3 has a 12" contagion range, and every enemy unit within contagion range of that lord on a 4+ takes a D3 mortal wounds. The Surgeon can bring back a dead plague marine every turn at full wounds, and heal either the lord or a wounded plague marine. The combos are there, you just have to look for them.
I actually think the Detachment Rule is way stronger then people give it credit for. Sticky Objectives may be available to any Battleline unit, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of those per Index, so army wide Sticky, Especially on Bloat Drones and Blight Haulers, seems like it'll be quite powerful.
It really seems as though GW don't know what Death Guard are supposed to be so they just make them almost the same as every other Heretic faction. We're so indistinct now that we may as well not have our own codex. Our army needs to be re-worked from the ground up. We should be playing thematically like vectors of disease. You don't want to get too close. You definitely don't want to touch & you will have a hard time completely eradicating us. The backbone of the force should be the Ultra-durable plague marine. 3w & old style disgustingly resilient. Melee or short range nurgly weapons for free - bubotic axes, maces, blight grenades, plague knives, plague belchers, & meltas. If we want extra range then it should come at a slight cost for plague bolters, and a little more for blight launchers and plague spewers which should be mega. Flails or Cleavers for champions. Then there should be our big guns. Blightlords with 4 wounds and old style disgustingly resilient. Champion with flails again if they want and then access to up to 4 heavy weapons per squad including entropy cannons as well as all the old favourites so these bad boys can drop into the role of dreadnoughts or deep striking big game hunters. We will need some cheap HQ options to offset the points jumps so this is where the plague surgeon and the noxious blightbringer can step up without much change to their current abilities to give us more options. Poxies could get a drop in points to round out troop choices where points are scarce and then they could synergise with Noxious blightbringers in certain types of list - looking at you, zombie horde. The boarding patrol could effectively be dark imperium. 7 tooled up plague marines, 2 squads of Poxies and 2 HQ choices making up whatever the 10th edition equivalent is of a ~500 point table-ready force. With the heroes 3 series coming back and the already existing multi-part set, having the whole range would mean massive versatility for small lists and large lists alike. A 1500 point equivalent army could be as small as 3 squads of 7 Plague Marines plus a squad of blightlords, or it could be as massive as 30 squads of poxwalkers with typhus and a blight bringer and everything in between. Death Guard could and should be an infantry focused, small, elite army. Distinct and different from their Heretic cousins in a similar way that Custodes are different to Astartes, but with the added versatility that cheap poxwalkers can make us more horde-like if you should happen to want that.
I see you didn't mention use of nurgle daemons with deathguard. Since chaos daemons index told you can now include them in your mortal chaos armies too. (1/4 of your army size can be daemons) Maybe you have less drones but you can have more rot flies!!
This actually quote interesting to learn, wasn't aware of this! Hopefully this will give some people new ideas or a little hope, when it comes to playing DG in 10th ed.
DGs index is just incredibly poorly written, they want us to move around and grab objectives but if you don't sit on the infected objectives you don't get any buffs, and if you leave an infected objective your opponent can just walk up and remove the infection and claim the obj, not to mention they dropped our movement even more, AND we're so much less tanky we're barely going to be able to sit on objectives cause we'll just get blasted off them during shooting...
Also, the army's main mechanic now is handing out debuffs to Toughness. Yet most DG weapons have Lethal Hits...which bypass the Wound rolls entirely. So these two rules work at cross-purposes to one another.
The buffs on objectives are so you need less units in defense. Enemy going to have a harder time doing things with deep strike. We don't want to sit on objectives, we want to sit near objectives, behind cover
Thank you for showing there are still good things about this army despite everyone's whining. I'm looking forward to playing my Death Guard with my friends and finding new strategies and synergies to use. Forget about the past, it's time to look towards the future.
Really want to get my own Primarch and I think Mortarion would be such a cool addition to my Death Guard army but I really can’t justify buying a $140 model that probably cost GW $0.25 to make. There is more plastic in one of those plagueburst crawlers than in Mortarion yet he cost more than double. I find Games Workshops pricings to be absurd. I think the hobby would reach a FAR bigger audience had they not felt the inclination to jack up their prices to unreasonable standards as if they are the hottest topic on planet earth. I do think GW has a big ego problem where they are the next “big franchise” and that everyone knows their brand and therefore have the right to set the prices for their models to obscene levels like each kit is a Nike shoe. I really do wish they change in the future, but currently I’m relent trying hard to get back into the hobby but GW hasn’t really changed anything in the last three editions so I’m probably gonna have to wait… for a really long time.
Respectfully, i can not focus on the video at all. those mini bases are too damn beautiful. Any chance we can get a tutorial on how to do these ourselves???
It was indeed mentioned in the showcase. IIRC, Tack was the one who painted most of them and gave them the noxious green basing, and Tycho did a handful to match.
I’m still a bit confused on what GW have decided to do with plague marines as it seems the army wants you to keep advancing onto the enemy with sticky objectives and a debug to help you fend off any enemies that might start to get to close, but yet plague marines seem to go in the opposite direction of that with them wanting to stick to objectives for some buffs. Hopefully you guys care able to make the rules work well for you guys (along with you ad mech fellas)
From the previous video, Tzeentch will now be in the meta, so I guess you had to expect the power of Nurgle to wane and fall into obscurity. The tides of Chaos at work…
They just destroyed this army🥲 bring back disgustingly resilient on a 5+ form 8th edition! Starting to feel like this army is the new nids 💯 Big fan tycho keep smashing out the content brother 💪
Thank you for seeing the good versus focusing on the perceived bad! All the armies have changed in 10th, and introduced some incredibly flavorful new play styles and abilities. It's natural that we might miss something we loved in 9th, but we also get to try out the cool new stuff in context of all the new factions and balancing!
I truly embody our primarchs pessimism when looking at the new rules for our legion. They probably wont see much action other than the initial trial games, then i will whip out my other pessimistic legion, the sons of Olympia! Iron Within!
Extremely sad to see that Death Guard has become the weakest army 😢 But every faction and army has this stage. Unfortunately it’s Death Guards turn. Love watching Tycho and love to see the positivity remaining high despite the bad news
When has it not been their turn? They were briefly a strong B-tier army during the armor of contempt era then went right back down to D tier, now this.
I think it's terrible that Content Creators can't tell the truth as they are supported by GW, and if this truly is what Tycho feels about Death Guard - then it's an unrealistic attempt to stay positive about a faction that was very cleaely left behind. Changing play styles is fine. Changing to a style that fristly doesnt meet the standard in this edition compared to other factions, and secondly to a style that has little to no synergy, is not acceptable. Pound for pound, Deathwing, Abominants and many, many other units are MUCH better and tankier than our units, and there are much more versatile and better troops than our PMs.
So can't say anything positive? You can have your gripes about the changes that's fine but you know what is really tiring? When people actively and constantly just go out of their way and just completely shit on the changes and actively try to discourage any players from trying to play a certain faction like yes they aren't great but if you want to play them here are the positives. If you genuinely just want to keep spewing that "Death Guard Bad, you positive, you payed by GW", well you and all the other thousand irate key board warriors can just keep it to yourselves.
I am really suprised how tycho took this index, I was kinda expecting tycho to be unhappy as deathguard are not very strong right now and they are now basically paper mache.
also its only the blight drones that have gone to legends, you can still play a drone heavy list. However for the shooting portion I think you could use some myphtic blight haulers, They are a decent anti everything platform that are just as fast and just as tough as the greater blight drones.
@vardaangupta7128 well here is the thing, just cause something gets nerfed or changed in someway you find negative, you don't have to ruin it for those who still want to play DG. Are they less resilient? Yes, is it getting tiring that people go one tirades and are never satisfied or acknowledge any positives with anything that is done? YES!YES!YES!YES!
I'm getting tired of people moaning about DG. Just because you have to change your play style and actually use synergy... See it as a challenge to better yourself on the table top. I made a choice to use DG in 10th and im excited. 3 x Crawlers and plenty of terminators it's going to be fun!!
Tycho deserves a Oscar nomination and a noble peace prize for managing to stay positive about this index.
It’s really not that bad don’t get me wrong it’s not good it’s just not bad like let’s be real ur just mad u lost the minus 1 damage but with most weapons damages going down it’s like it never left it’s not the worst codex we’ve seen and every army has had nerf so it’s not bad
@@zachyqaddoumi2991 yeah necrons definitely had a nerf...
Bro, necrons are looking good. Have you seen the res orbs 😂
@@zachyqaddoumi2991From what I've seen and personally feel is that they have lost the fluff of being more difficult to kill than other armies. Disgustingly resilient has always been their thing and now it is only a stratagem which is worse than many other factions version of the same stratagem.
Well iam pretty sure they have to say good things about it since they get free stuff from games workshop and had to sign an agreement with them
So, I started with Death Guard in 9th, never won a match. Now, I get to look forward to losing more. Oh well. At least they’re fun to paint.
yeah, I dont play them but i paint my friend's. Still feel your pain though.
As a Dark Angel player, my Deathwing Knights have damage reduce by 1, +1 to Wounds because of Shields, +4 FNP against mortals once per game, and I can give them an additional -1 dmg to them in melee. I feel like Death Guard should have what my guys have and then some.
Except you forget to mention we no longer reduce damage passively. 2cp strat for just a solo unit is Boulogne
And other army's get the same strat for less cp
Demon prince has a spreading 6 fnp.....
Only for the enemy shooting phase to boot!
@user-ij9ui8kz8s And you want your prince to waddle with the rest of your army just being a bubble generator..?
@@ReynardCalcifiusno, there's isn't the same.
It has to be used after someone charges.
They can't use it on a non-charged combat, and they can't wait until the opponent uses their offensive strategem.
Still don't think it's worth 2 CP without being able to reduce damage to zero, but at the very least it does some things the Dark Angel one doesn't
Tychos co host saying different variations of "0000h" everytime Tycho says something is something i can never unhear
Death Guard is Tycho’s main army, so he is expected to have most of the input on their new rules. Mubin was more involved speaking about Tzeentch or Khorne in the earlier video and I think just a co-host here as the other Chaos player.
He is there to make sure Tycho doesn't drink bleach because of disappointment in Death Guard
The best part was when he asked about any cool and powerful combo and they just cut away and never returned to that topic.
new death guard is to use rhino to move, use helbrutes and defilers for anti armor, and then use the rest of your list as fodder to keep the important units alive, which is any unit that isnt even from the death guard. Wow very fun. Nurgle demons are just more fun in 10th edition, why bother anymore
I guess it's time for a dedicated Death Guard Dreadnought. Just a leviathan dread, but bigger and bulkier, because Nurgle, with all sorts of weaponry. That way you won't need non-Death guard units
@@alfadasfire Well, then I have good news for you! Death Guard did have a dedicated Contemptor. The bad news is GW doesn't make it anymore--just the torso.
Plague marines are no good and and need characters to make it effective.
New Death guard just seems to be ignore your army and use generic chaos stuff.
P.s. please buy lots of our surplus rhinos, land raiders and predators to to make your faction work (GW)
Mortarion on average does less wounds in combat than magnus.... thats not even close to being correct.
Magnus also has 4 dmg mitigations plus -1 dmg
I totally agree, feels so damn annoying that the primarch who was known for his durability before being made a daemon primarch, has now been made less tough than the little [REDACTED] who got his spine broken
@@mattmanchip9419 I punched out his heart! Why does no one remember that!
Hahaha
@@jonathanbrindley3592 what are you talking about? Magnus only does 3 damage, and unlike mortys fnp, magnus has to activate his -1 damage instead of his other auras. Morty has higher toughness, can ignore his own degredation, and can choose his auras while still remaining tough, while magnus has to choose between tankiness and damage. Not to mention, mortarion is way cheaper.
They made a lot of them more support focused.
Points just hammered the final nail in the coffin for deathguard
Points that can be changed with the press of a button. We are beta testing the thing for em. Not a great look but it is as it has always been. . .except that changes are coming faster than ever!
Love hearing Tycho staying positive but not avoiding the issues. I am still excited to play DG in 10th as despite the changing I think there is a few play styles in the army now.
I’m really looking forward to your first battle report with Death Guard. Please give me hope that they can still do cool things.
From what I've heard from a couple of regular DG players, they're not performing that bad. I'm getting suggestions that poxers and various termies do a lot of heavy lifting.
well, if the enemy doesn't just kill you with mortals, you might have a chance if you just make like 90% of your 4++ saves on the terminators.
sadly otherwise you have no chance against any other index exept votan and maybe addmech.
@@takodachinya6212 my bad, i forgot to mention the transports. They help a lot too. Mind you I haven't played yet myself. Just advice I've gotten.
DG got top 6 this weekend on the GW championship lol.
Sad for my favorite faction
You know what, at least we're not admech
I’m with ya
I haven’t looked at ad mech yet.
@@williambegley5209 it's mostly nerfs from what I've been told
I appreciate your optimism and positivity Tycho in an otherwise disappointing faction reveal. You're doing the most bud!
My issue with DG in 10th edition, is while we became more lethal, our usual targets all have fnp and invul saves now.
While we lost ours.
We do too you just have to use the demon prince wo wings to put his aura on units. Use a couple and the enhancement
I did, out of the 22 rolls I made with a 6+ fnp I saved 2 single damage wounds, and they were overkill I lost the unit anyways.
Did ya win 😂
No, I lost my final unit at the beginning of their turn 3
I don't really think the issue is that there are no good things about the DG. I just think they because have lost their identity in rules and virtually every other faction has rules that were the major part of DG identity seems like the developers were throwing DG under the bus so to speak.
I am not gonna lie, I have not been terribly fond so far of what I have seen this new edition but I had tried to stay positive about it, but losing identity through rules I think is kind of rude to the people who have known them as such.
Mubin, it's okay to say more words. And Tycho I always appreciate your energy and enthusiasm.
im okay without 40 pages of rules and building an army identity instead of a rule identity
I am just sad that my Death Guard possessed are no longer usable. :(
Yep. My 21 I converted and never painted will have to join my CSM
@@tychoimmega9741 thing is I converted AND painted all 10 of them. And I loved them in 9th. They were the bane of my opponents existence during our Crusade campaign. But now they are gone... gone with the plague wind... ;_;
Never have I ever seen a man try so hard no to say "They're crap, NEXT!". Well done Tycho, sorry you got hit with the GW stick ;.;
Really like the back and forth on this one - very analytical for a faction I've heard alot of humdrum about, I'm really interested to see Tycho's new lists!
Sadly they seem under tuned. None of the major themes of the army work with each other. Finally the lack of being "tanky" make the army feel nothing like its lore.
I personally will not be finishing my DG army this edition. Probably will use a unit or two of Plague marines in my CSM list.
I love that while acknowledging the faults Tycho still finds postitives. Didn't expect anything less.
Also one of the few people with a decent following to even admit this index kinda sucks so good on him for staying real.
It'll be interesting to see how death guard play now with a lot of their stuff gone
It seems that mechanised Deathguard will be one of the few usable lists since speedy Deathguard lost the Greater Bloat Drone in competitive.
they did good this weekend at the major GW championship. 6th place even. not to shabby.
@@blizzardgaming7070 sucks for players like me who prefer the infantry and elites instead of vehicle DG very hard to play and get wins😥
I like the effort on trying to put a good spin on it
I think there has been a lot of shilling for Death Guard by GW supported channels. Has anyone seen the AP of the xenon races? Plague Marines will be the mainstay of this detachment, how many 5+ saves can one make? Not to mention the increase in feel no pain, get back up, reduce damage, and returning models back to life in about any other army that's not the Death Guard. Plus the amount of units which got a Toughness increase is phemnomenial. Then there is the loss of movement, lack of the good characters to support our best units, and the lack of anti vehicle weapons with almost nothing to deal with tough monsters, Mortarion is a joke reduced to just an expensive buff piece that loses to everything in it's weight class. Contagion wouldn't be missed due to all the toughness increases and is almost redundent with lethal hits. Plus all the good stuff you want to have lethal hits for have a 2+ save. And what is any of our AP0/-1 DM 1 going to do. Spread the sickness and the stratagem use is going to be difficult to pull off. Not to mention it says we can move off an objective but if we do, then any unit that touches it, turns it off. He is right about needing transports which will eat a ton of points because their shooting is rather week and you have to be in melee to do any significant damage. Which is a huge tax not to mention not fluffy. And toughness making us resilient makes me laugh! With all the lethal hits, wound whatever on X, and the fact that almost every unit seems to re-roll wounds in some shape or form, T5/6 isn't going to carry the army. New playstyle- Get used to losing a lot. I have played the Death Guard as my only army since they became their own army and this is the worst version yet. 8th edition was rough but War of the Spider breathed some life back into them. 9th was a roller coaster ride but for the most part they were fun to play. This does not look fun. This looks frustrating to play at best. Maybe just maybe that somehow this is an army that looks like crap and turns out to be amazing but from watching Vanguard tactics battle report and the one from the Kanas City Open, the Death Guard isn't going to have enough resources on the board come turns 4/5. Some of the potent gun line armies may cripple them by turn 3. Elder armies will score and avoid the whole army as a whole. Hope the codex has something better and tweeks the data sheets.
OH MY GOSH Dude the calm the fuck down. This is just a hobby chill
One step back, two steps forward
towards F tier.
@@tmdiz4579 Touch grass and sell your army
The Salt is justified, it's the way of our Primarch! Keep your bitterness!
Tycho is literally my ray of optimism for death guard
Why is my precious Miasmic Malignifier? Tycho, as always is an absolute pleasure to watch.
sad to hear that death drones are going away, but being more strategic about how aggressive you are and also maintaining and infecting objectives will be an interesting playstyle to witness as a spectator. Seems like with 9th, chaos was able to really move up the board and occupy objectives while being a bullwark (death guard especially) so that may give a nice balance. Those drones were pretty powerful, but they are also gorgeous models.
I see black legion and word bearer being played a lot because of the new marks of chaos rules, kinda like the idea of those tzeentch-marked obliterators.
With the massive increase in everyone else's fnps and our lack of and lack of -1 DMG
If they update any sticky objectives we get to stay infected until the end of the game just for the purpose of strats ect would that help us ? Love my DG and in very sad that legends alone took 2 K off my total amount of DG
That's rough! Great idea for a rules update
I have no idea how you managed to stay positive about these rules XD
On the bright side, we should be up for a full rules rewrite soon I hope!
Tycho is the only good thing about death guard in 10th edition.
I love that Tycho doesn't do the over reaction doom and gloom. I love how he sees the many positives and the excitement of being pushed out of the cookie cutter rut of the past.
Love the positivity here, happy to get a breal from the negativity
There's a fine line between needing to be positive positive POSITIVE to make GW happy and retaining your integrity by telling the truth about how dogshit death guard are now.
They desperately need to be tougher and the battle reports that we've already seen are extremely discouraging as they get absolutely tabled.
GW missed the mark flavor wise for sure. Power wise it's still way too early to tell. Efficiency is everything
maybe he doesnt wanna be a downer the whole video? Why just focus on the shitty parts? Tycho is obviously a very positive and jolly guy, so he admits that there is big negatives but he also likes the army a lot and is enjoying finding a bunch of different ways to play.
You are absolutely valid to not enjoy death guard anymore, what GW did to them was borderline criminal, but you dont need to tell someone else to stop having fun if they seem to be enjoying the index when you dont.
@@grzmit5904 You obviously didn't quite understand what I wrote there.
@@Doodlebob563 ok death gaurd got done dirty, so we can't have any positivity?
GW really just paying all these Warhammer RUclips channels to say nice things about Death Guard after they absolutely butchered their Codex. I wish some of these people would actually just be honest and say the truth is that Death Guard codex is severely broken and under powered compared to every other faction in the game.
Sure some of the models have some nice rules but the army as a whole as little to no synergy
Games workshop does not pay us a dime. They do offer early access to their stuff but there is no obligation for us to say anything. Every army is different now. You might find it’s not as bad as you think!
@@PlayOnTabletop Well it’s definitely not
Let's try actually playing some games of 10th with the faction before we throw our toys out of the pram, yeah?
Honestly I would agree if you commented this anywhere except under a Tycho vid. He really is just that positive and happy.
Such an absurd claim.
It'd be so much easier and cheaper to just adjust point costs.
They don't appear as amazing as I would have liked flavorwise, but balancewise I don't think they're as bad as some people are saying
Squad sizes: 5 to 10. Box only comes with 7. Dude....
I heard they made a new tier for us, in F we go
Tycho, you are the best and most wholesome. I'm so happy to see you take a positive view about them without waving past their clear faults. I hope you can do amazing with them as always and look forward to your games! Blessing of the grandfather upon you child of chaos
Thank you for your kind words. Nurgle forever!
as much as I enjoy Tychos positivity, DG are pretty shit right now
10:25 what you're saying about Death Guard having a bit of a weakness against heavy vehicles and monsters is something I'm also really seeing in Orks... unless you're fielding the big walkers or Beast Snagga rigs (OK, getting a liiiittle salty how hard Beast Snaggas are getting pushed.), don't expect to see much past Strength 9, AP -1 or -2.
I recommend you grab a GUO for Deathguard. Another big body and unless it’s FAQ’d should be another -1 to enemy toughness to a model in 12”. Him and Morty could become fast friends really quickly.
I have just the model!
I'm not upset with the new Death Guard rules. It's free to download and I can play them straight away in 10th edition. I'd be unhappy if I had to wait years for a codex
look, im with the redditors that the army just doesnt feel disgustingly resiliant anymore, but after seeing the lethal hits in action, im excited that even if the army remains bottom of the barrel competitively speaking, that theres still a new army to learn and adapt to. Im willing to give it a try. Cautiously optimistic.
If it were up to me in the rules team, i think there is a comprimise of buffing the army without bringing back -1dmg or army wide fnp. When you think back to being sick in your life, you likely felt just as weak phsyically as you did frail. I think the idea of the nurgle aura also reducing melee strength or ap by 1 would also lean into the army being very dangerous in melee now that were more vulnerable to shooting. I think the AP would be the way to go just because -1 str into our on average higher toughness just fucks up the math a bit too much to be fun to engage with in the game.
Death guard has been thrown into the dirty and he still enthusiastic... dudes my hero
Been seeing boundless salt and negativity about DG (and i dont even play þem!) so its nice to see some people pointing out þe postives and talking about how þey might actually play
I'm excited to play my first match with them.
The 10th ed rules have given me a very fun idea to use infection more as a way to coax fast attack and deep strike in one direction while still having a good stick of points claimed if they don't take the bait
If they do, that's when it's the marine and PBCs time to mulch the main enemy cappers
Infection seems like a really good way for you to punish not overreaching cappers. Force their hand lest yu get to steal points without needing to camp your Marines all game. Gives a point to cultists and drones as making sure as much territory infected as is possible to get in that position
We will see the points situation later today but I'm mostly fine as a new DG player with army still pending. But I see cultists getting a lot of use now with infect in mind and hope is certainly still as present as it always as for drones and haulers thanks to cultists getting to scout and such, if I understand scouting correct.
Ranged Marines seem way more important now compared to melee blobs. But they feel more like chas tactical marines now.
As far as leaders go it seems it has shifted to daemon princes and lord of virulence. Virulence is very good to deep strike up to main fights but the enhancement/warlord seems the strongest on DP right now.
I do wonder how much dedicated Anti-Tank will be needed when we auto wound with 6s to hit on almost everything.
Auto wounds on 6 with low ap and low damage (very typically ap 0 or -1 and damage 1), you’ll plink off a few wounds but without dedicated anti tank your not killing a tank without a lot of focus fire to kill them with bug bites.
Autowounds on a 2+ save with no AP is death by a 1000 cuts. Which is very Death Guard-y, but nevertheless, you're gonna need some bazookas.
@Surprise and Terror! Depends on the target, a tyranofex will laugh off any d1 weapon. And if you're entire army has to fire at 1 leman russ to maybe kill it, then you're losing the battle. 9th edition strategy of kill things by volume of shots is dead and gone.
Does the contagion zone toughness reduction stack? I think rules as written means that it does, ie, in later game imagine this: if it gets to the 3rd round, you get a radius of 9inch on all your units, and also allowing you with careful placement (ie surrounding units or piling in with multiple units), you can reduce the toughness of enemy units by 1 for EACH of your units in contagion zone? Contagion zone overlap from your units onto an enemy unit is what I'm talking about.
I would really like to know this. If so that'd be awesome
No, never has and never will
I like how I'm painting up a Bloat Drone while watching this video :D
I love your enthousiasm, we don't have points yet but every game we've seen with 9th points, DG is getting absolutley tabled.
I would like to add something for what isn't said in the video.
-PBC are basicly anti infantry which all other models are as well. There is no anti monster of vehicle (Something that wounds a T12 or higher on a 3+) And the MBH that wounds on a 4+ is cool but just has 3 attacks that hit on 3+.
-As said, Mortarion has its own problems
-Poxwalkers hit on a 5+ and lose to battleshock, they lost everything that made them good. They're now just wound for Typhus.
Needing Rhino's is something I personally dispise and the fact that landraiders are going to be our anti tank just blows my mind.
At least our Cultist are usefull now... basicly: "If you wanna play Death Guard, you don't play Death Guard" is a good quote I saw. The standard CSM models are better and more flavourfull somehow...
Well, the list goes on and on and on so I'll stop there, have a nice day everyone.
This is going to be a tough edition for death guard given that we are lacking in FNP as well as disgustingly resilient being scrapped altogether :(
They took away our -1 dmg and gave it to almost every other faction
It’s fun to watch someone that loves his army that no matter what happens.
Tycho, your awesome! Can’t wait to see you show them DG should still be feared.
MBH get a +1 to wound vehicles, so they punch vehicles harder than you think, I haven't seen anything with T18 so their worst wound roll is 4+ at 48 inches with krak missles.
Chaos Lord with Living Plague and a Surgeon in a squad of 10 Plague Marines can hold the middle forever. On turn 3 has a 12" contagion range, and every enemy unit within contagion range of that lord on a 4+ takes a D3 mortal wounds. The Surgeon can bring back a dead plague marine every turn at full wounds, and heal either the lord or a wounded plague marine.
The combos are there, you just have to look for them.
Surgeon can only heal characters
2:38 will be the quote I need when I'm down
I actually think the Detachment Rule is way stronger then people give it credit for.
Sticky Objectives may be available to any Battleline unit, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of those per Index, so army wide Sticky, Especially on Bloat Drones and Blight Haulers, seems like it'll be quite powerful.
Nab an objective, then duck behind cover.
The enemy has to pay extra to take it
It really seems as though GW don't know what Death Guard are supposed to be so they just make them almost the same as every other Heretic faction. We're so indistinct now that we may as well not have our own codex.
Our army needs to be re-worked from the ground up. We should be playing thematically like vectors of disease. You don't want to get too close. You definitely don't want to touch & you will have a hard time completely eradicating us.
The backbone of the force should be the Ultra-durable plague marine. 3w & old style disgustingly resilient. Melee or short range nurgly weapons for free - bubotic axes, maces, blight grenades, plague knives, plague belchers, & meltas. If we want extra range then it should come at a slight cost for plague bolters, and a little more for blight launchers and plague spewers which should be mega. Flails or Cleavers for champions.
Then there should be our big guns. Blightlords with 4 wounds and old style disgustingly resilient. Champion with flails again if they want and then access to up to 4 heavy weapons per squad including entropy cannons as well as all the old favourites so these bad boys can drop into the role of dreadnoughts or deep striking big game hunters.
We will need some cheap HQ options to offset the points jumps so this is where the plague surgeon and the noxious blightbringer can step up without much change to their current abilities to give us more options.
Poxies could get a drop in points to round out troop choices where points are scarce and then they could synergise with Noxious blightbringers in certain types of list - looking at you, zombie horde.
The boarding patrol could effectively be dark imperium. 7 tooled up plague marines, 2 squads of Poxies and 2 HQ choices making up whatever the 10th edition equivalent is of a ~500 point table-ready force. With the heroes 3 series coming back and the already existing multi-part set, having the whole range would mean massive versatility for small lists and large lists alike. A 1500 point equivalent army could be as small as 3 squads of 7 Plague Marines plus a squad of blightlords, or it could be as massive as 30 squads of poxwalkers with typhus and a blight bringer and everything in between.
Death Guard could and should be an infantry focused, small, elite army. Distinct and different from their Heretic cousins in a similar way that Custodes are different to Astartes, but with the added versatility that cheap poxwalkers can make us more horde-like if you should happen to want that.
I see you didn't mention use of nurgle daemons with deathguard.
Since chaos daemons index told you can now include them in your mortal chaos armies too. (1/4 of your army size can be daemons)
Maybe you have less drones but you can have more rot flies!!
Interesting idea! Gotta dig up that nurgle demon pile
And all demons have deepstrike
This actually quote interesting to learn, wasn't aware of this! Hopefully this will give some people new ideas or a little hope, when it comes to playing DG in 10th ed.
Ive always preferred using entropy cannons defensively anyway. I like to keep them tucked away out of line of sight as much as possible.
I had a pin once from a RTT that said Nurgle Likes Me Stinky. When you called them stinky I suddenly remembered this from back in the early 00's
DGs index is just incredibly poorly written, they want us to move around and grab objectives but if you don't sit on the infected objectives you don't get any buffs, and if you leave an infected objective your opponent can just walk up and remove the infection and claim the obj, not to mention they dropped our movement even more, AND we're so much less tanky we're barely going to be able to sit on objectives cause we'll just get blasted off them during shooting...
Also, the army's main mechanic now is handing out debuffs to Toughness. Yet most DG weapons have Lethal Hits...which bypass the Wound rolls entirely. So these two rules work at cross-purposes to one another.
The buffs on objectives are so you need less units in defense.
Enemy going to have a harder time doing things with deep strike.
We don't want to sit on objectives, we want to sit near objectives, behind cover
curious about Tycho thoughts on nurgle defiler and hellbrute? would he recommend them?
Yes to both! Hellbrute getting contagion on vital targets early is ace and defilers are just plain fun
I'm really looking forward to playing them in 11th edition! 😊
Man I just bought an STL for Fleshmowers...
I bet theres a cool conversion to turn them into Dreadnaughts
Tycho is a true follower of Nurgle
Thank you for showing there are still good things about this army despite everyone's whining. I'm looking forward to playing my Death Guard with my friends and finding new strategies and synergies to use. Forget about the past, it's time to look towards the future.
Please, take Thousand Sons up against Death Guard. Let’s see GW balancing first hand!
Tycho =
I’m bummed that my infantry walking up the board is dead but the blight hauler looks good and I love those little guys
Looking forward to see Tycho's DG go against the Levianthan-box Space Marines and/or Tyranids under 10th ed rules in a matched play.
The more I hear about chaos marine stuff the more I feel like why wouldn't you just play a proper daemon list?
Really want to get my own Primarch and I think Mortarion would be such a cool addition to my Death Guard army but I really can’t justify buying a $140 model that probably cost GW $0.25 to make. There is more plastic in one of those plagueburst crawlers than in Mortarion yet he cost more than double. I find Games Workshops pricings to be absurd. I think the hobby would reach a FAR bigger audience had they not felt the inclination to jack up their prices to unreasonable standards as if they are the hottest topic on planet earth. I do think GW has a big ego problem where they are the next “big franchise” and that everyone knows their brand and therefore have the right to set the prices for their models to obscene levels like each kit is a Nike shoe. I really do wish they change in the future, but currently I’m relent trying hard to get back into the hobby but GW hasn’t really changed anything in the last three editions so I’m probably gonna have to wait… for a really long time.
wait drones are out? cooome oooon..... i see the panning over the "modern" ones too
Only the forge world greater blight drones are now gone, the regular bloat drones are still around.
Respectfully, i can not focus on the video at all. those mini bases are too damn beautiful. Any chance we can get a tutorial on how to do these ourselves???
Thank you guys, you are an epic duo
Epic Casters
Really want to know how you made those bases, Tycho.
I believe it’s discussed in the showcase video
It was indeed mentioned in the showcase. IIRC, Tack was the one who painted most of them and gave them the noxious green basing, and Tycho did a handful to match.
“Its a new edition, were all gonna have to change…” Me with World Eaters. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!!
02:25 Why in mourning, Tycho? Legends are still 100% playable, it's only in organised events that specify otherwise you need to worry about.
Where in legends is the Greater Blight Drone? its not a legend. . . its just gone.
@@tychoimmega9741at the time code I gave you said you're mourning your play style/list because "my favourite unit has gone to Legends."
@@oldex6564 You are right I misspoke. Sorry! as far as i know the Greater Blight Drone is just gone. No rules available for 10th😭
I’m still a bit confused on what GW have decided to do with plague marines as it seems the army wants you to keep advancing onto the enemy with sticky objectives and a debug to help you fend off any enemies that might start to get to close, but yet plague marines seem to go in the opposite direction of that with them wanting to stick to objectives for some buffs. Hopefully you guys care able to make the rules work well for you guys (along with you ad mech fellas)
Plague marines are gonna shine as they assault midfield objectives. Sadly they may be to fragile to hike. Transportation!
the thing that saddens me is that blight haulers aren't really good yet they look soooooo damn good
This is some weapons grade copium. Not that I blame Tycho for looking for the bright side
how do you feel about the decision to remove points entirely, and replace them with power levels called points....
Glum. I am a list builder and enjoyed finding efficiencies. Might be good for the game in the end due to being more approachable by new players?
From the previous video, Tzeentch will now be in the meta, so I guess you had to expect the power of Nurgle to wane and fall into obscurity. The tides of Chaos at work…
We need a yearly update! And list ideas, painting tips, tricks 😅
Don’t blight haulers wound vehicles with toughness of 10-17 on a 4
They just destroyed this army🥲 bring back disgustingly resilient on a 5+ form 8th edition! Starting to feel like this army is the new nids 💯
Big fan tycho keep smashing out the content brother 💪
Thank you for seeing the good versus focusing on the perceived bad! All the armies have changed in 10th, and introduced some incredibly flavorful new play styles and abilities. It's natural that we might miss something we loved in 9th, but we also get to try out the cool new stuff in context of all the new factions and balancing!
I truly embody our primarchs pessimism when looking at the new rules for our legion. They probably wont see much action other than the initial trial games, then i will whip out my other pessimistic legion, the sons of Olympia! Iron Within!
I want Tycho to write the codex for DG instead of GW designers. This would be not only strong but also most importantly very fun to play.
I'm looking forward to having an icon bearer and plague surgeon lead a squad and see how well they can take and hold objectives
Poxwalkers don't have Strength 4, they are on 3? Am I missing something?
They're still strenght 3. Tychos high.
Thank you for another great video!
Extremely sad to see that Death Guard has become the weakest army 😢
But every faction and army has this stage. Unfortunately it’s Death Guards turn.
Love watching Tycho and love to see the positivity remaining high despite the bad news
When has it not been their turn? They were briefly a strong B-tier army during the armor of contempt era then went right back down to D tier, now this.
I think it's terrible that Content Creators can't tell the truth as they are supported by GW, and if this truly is what Tycho feels about Death Guard - then it's an unrealistic attempt to stay positive about a faction that was very cleaely left behind. Changing play styles is fine. Changing to a style that fristly doesnt meet the standard in this edition compared to other factions, and secondly to a style that has little to no synergy, is not acceptable.
Pound for pound, Deathwing, Abominants and many, many other units are MUCH better and tankier than our units, and there are much more versatile and better troops than our PMs.
So can't say anything positive? You can have your gripes about the changes that's fine but you know what is really tiring? When people actively and constantly just go out of their way and just completely shit on the changes and actively try to discourage any players from trying to play a certain faction like yes they aren't great but if you want to play them here are the positives. If you genuinely just want to keep spewing that "Death Guard Bad, you positive, you payed by GW", well you and all the other thousand irate key board warriors can just keep it to yourselves.
They took away the drones... what hell is this? Grandfather spare us.
How Dare Tzeench affect our play style. Lol
Can't wait to get my plague boys on the table and see how much things really are
I want to see them talk about Deathwatch
DW got nerf’d already.
They got nerfed
Your overwhelming positivity makes my heart ache, I wish I could be as hopeful
I am really suprised how tycho took this index, I was kinda expecting tycho to be unhappy as deathguard are not very strong right now and they are now basically paper mache.
also its only the blight drones that have gone to legends, you can still play a drone heavy list. However for the shooting portion I think you could use some myphtic blight haulers, They are a decent anti everything platform that are just as fast and just as tough as the greater blight drones.
@vardaangupta7128 well here is the thing, just cause something gets nerfed or changed in someway you find negative, you don't have to ruin it for those who still want to play DG. Are they less resilient? Yes, is it getting tiring that people go one tirades and are never satisfied or acknowledge any positives with anything that is done?
YES!YES!YES!YES!
He has no blight haulers
I want to see space wolves versus death guard cause they are inherently different but they both have good arguably great melee set ups
I'm getting tired of people moaning about DG. Just because you have to change your play style and actually use synergy... See it as a challenge to better yourself on the table top.
I made a choice to use DG in 10th and im excited. 3 x Crawlers and plenty of terminators it's going to be fun!!