CZ-75 Shadow - 11lb Recoil Spring vs 16lb Recoil Spring
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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In this video, we take a look at both springs, and see which one allows you to shoot the fastest, and reduce recoil/muzzle flip.
It's apparent from the timing, and the angle of the muzzle, that the 11lb recoil spring reduces recoil, and decreases the time it takes to reacquire the target. Also, by using a buffer, the slide bounced off the frame and went into battery quicker, than without the buffer. All shots were taken using the buffer in this video. I religiously use a buffer, and can't imagine shooting without it.
So as mentioned in my video about accuracy, the 11lb recoil spring helps reduce recoil, and can make you faster on the course.
The first shot was performed with counter-rotation, the rest of the shots were performed without that applied.
The application of counter-rotation and push-pull will reduce muzzle flip further, and reduce the time required before reacquiring the target, this is expected based on the physics, but it was nice to confirm it using a 240fps camera and measuring the angles for comparison, we now have a quantitative analysis rather than a "it feels better" analysis.
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Cheers,
David.
To me, the recoil spring power isn't so much affecting the felt recoil or muzzle flip on the way back as it is as soon as it starts to return the slide back into battery, with a stiffer spring pushing back on the gun's frame more than a lighter one. To see at least half of this in action, load 2-3 rounds into a magazine, then compare the feel of the shots that cycle the slide to the last one which locks it back. The one that locks it back will generally feel shorter, tighter and perhaps lighter in recoil than the others....difference being it doesn't have that extra push back off the slide being forced back into battery.
So to me that's where a lighter recoil spring affects the overall feel of the recoil/cycling. But going too far can affect reliability, increase the battering on the frame and sometimes feel rather sluggish so it's a balancing/tuning act with given loads. the little recoil buffers help especially when it comes to CZ's and the forces that the takedown pin are under.
Exactly what I was looking for! Wasn't sure if coil helps at all. Thank you for this test 👍
Correct me if I am wrong but I think that pros put lighter springs to reduce the dive when the slide slams back on the frame after loading a round into the chamber not for recoil reduction. Putting very light springs actually increases the stress on the frame when slide goes back and therefore the felt recoil. That is why they put those plastic/brass washers so not to damage the frame. On the other side if you install harder spring you get less recoil but harder slam forward that prevents you from fast target acquisition and loss of precious milliseconds.
I'm no pro for sure, but that's a good point! I didn't check for muzzle dip, but I would expect the same, that with a lesser spring you would have lesser muzzle flip and dip. I only tested the muzzle flip and time taken to drop back to horizontal. Everything was tested with a rubber buffer in as well, to allow the slide to bounce off the frame, it certainly worked, as without it, the frame would stay racked longer, but with the buffer, there was no measurable difference with the travel speed and duration of the 11lb vs 16lb springs, you can see it in this video if you watch in slow motion. From this testing, I'm gonna go with the lighter spring and buffer for the least muzzle flip and faster acquisition of target. You're right tho, without a buffer, the heavier spring would reduce the felt recoil, I'd have to test the muzzle flip and time back to horizontal to really know the result though, because the interaction changes completely without a buffer.
Cheers,
David
+David Sunshine Thnaks for your reply, it is greatly appreciated.
+spasev You're welcome. Thanks for input, I should do some more testing with and without buffers, and with different springs.
Cheers,
David.
For competition such as IPSC, top shooters were using very light spring as low as 8 or 9lbs with their minor loads as well as changing their main(hammer) spring as low as 11lbs to reduce felt recoil.
Awesome! They definitely are doing right thing!
Thanks for sharing that information, it corroborates my findings.
Cheers,
David.
I appreciate this video. I just changed out the factory 18 lb spring on my Canik TP9SFX to a 13 lb. I also got a 15 lb spring as well.
i clipped 4 coils on my Kimber Pro and got a great success
ad78 Nice man!! That's great to hear. Guess that'll work too! You can lighten the spring by sanding it down too, to make the cross sectional area of the spring wire thinner, that'll reduce the spring weight.
Cheers!
David.
I would like to see you test the DPM System Multiple Springs Recoil Reduction System with your video capture as you did here.
Hi,
Thank you for the heads up on the DPM system, it looks great with it's triple spring set-up, definitely looks like it has great potential! I'll look into it.
Cheers!
David.
Good video man
Excellent quality
I replaced the STUPID heavy springs in my regular sp-01 with the Shadow weights.
18 lb vs 16 lb recoil
20 lb vs 15 lb mainspring
I wanted to maintain factory reliability
very happy with it
Thanks man!
Haha, I thought the Shadow's springs were heavy! Damn man the regular pushed it even further.
Ya I'm happy with the performance with lower spring weights too, it's awesome.
Cheers!
David.
Heavier spring are for hotter loads. Lighter spring for low power loads. Heaver spring can help reduce wear and tear on the gun . Its not about recoil.
I can't believe it can be this good
Ya I wasn't expecting that big of a difference. But makes sense when you visit the weight differences of the spring. I'll do more testing later with other spring setups too
Cheers!
David.
Great detailed video! I run the 13lb Cajun Gun Works RS and 13lb Main Spring. They work great together.
Thank you!
CGW makes great upgrades I hear, I haven't tried them though, I should do it!
Cheers,
David.
I run the same combination in my SP-01. Best combination I have found so far.
Thanks for the informative vid!
Great video and quick analysis
Flavio Pontual Thanks man!! It was fun to do this quick comparison! Stay tuned, I'm gonna do the new dual spring recoil reduction system soon!
Cheers,
David.
Great video, thanks for all the tips and tricks you've shown us for the cz75. How is shooting steel cased ammo in this gun?
+Chris X Thank you! You're welcome, it's fun to do and hopefully share useful information. I purchased a case of cheap steel cased ammo, and it was a not a pretty sight; the main issue was a failure to feed due to high friction in the magazine. To stop the steel from corroding, the cases are painted, the friction created between the paint of the casing and the paint in the magazine is much higher than brass against the paint, so the ammo would bind inside the magazine. To reduce the friction, I loaded less ammo. I also opened the magazine and coated the inside in Remington Drilube, that helped, but was not a permanent ideal solution, since the Drilube wears out and requires re-application.
Since the diameter of the steel cased ammo was slightly higher than brass, I couldn't easily fit the last round into the magazine either.
If you're ok with all of those problems, and can save $70/case, it might be worth it, but it does get annoying having to deal with those issues.
I now only purchase brass cased ammo from a reputable brand, it was nice to save some money, and it was nice for target practicing, but it's best to train with the ammo that's used in a match, so worth spending a little more.
I'm currently using American Eagle 115gr, and it works flawlessly.
Cheers,
David.
If you run full power, or + loads lighter springs can lead to frame/slide damage. Buffers are available to help mitigate the forces. Some don't like them.
Yeah so usually you also change your load data.
Competition vs carry ammo are so different. Got to try a well tuned 8lb recoil spring with custom ammo load data and it's almost like airsoft
Can i use 9lbs spring with 115grain bullets?
@@AirsoftRealSteelBoxingShooting competition with non-real-world ammo load seems ultimately pointless. Like who cares if you're the fastest / most accurate Nerf dart shooter in the world?...it's ultimately pointless.
@@kevinchrist1658 i actually practice with both.
I enjoy the game but I also practice for self defense situations.
you guys have definitely got this all wrong, different spring powers are for tuning different weight heads and powder loads all you are doing is destroying your pistol firing full loads with a low power spring
Good comment, and you're 100% correct, the different spring powers allow the gun to operate with different PF, but I've also heard that the heavy spring in the CZ-75 is suited to +P loads, so if that's the case, the heavy 16lb spring is overkill for the standard factory loads that most people shoot, so unless you're shooting hot loads then you can drop it down to 11lbs. I don't think it's destroying the gun, because unless the steel is subjected to forces greater than the yield strength, the number of cycles it can handle before it has fatigue stress is very high, near infinite. Adding the rubber buffer in there also helps reduce the impact force dramatically, but that's probably not even required, I haven't heard of any CZ-75 frame fracturing due to hot loads. So I think using lighter springs has benefits to reducing recoil, in addition to being used with lighter PFs.
Thanks again for the comment, it's certainly an important discussion and consideration when adjusting spring weights.
Cheers,
David.
This is simply for competition applications. Video is correct. Don't over think it
David you are right , the standart european 9mm loads are like us +p loads. In Europe +p dont exist just softer target loads.
My cz2 just crack. I changed recoil spring and used military ammo. Dont make the same mistake as I do.
@@teddyagp7864 why would anyone use hot military loads in a competition gun?
Im confused. Wouldnt a heavier spring absorb more energy giving a lighter felt recoil?
Hi,
I thought the same thing, and that's kinda what prompted the create of this video and testing.
I think what's happening, is that the heavier spring is transferring more force into the frame and your hand, than a lighter spring would. The rubber buffer allows the slide to bounce off the frame and go back into battery, so if you have the rubber buffer, the spring weight is what creates the most felt recoil.
Imagine if you take your left hand and pull back on the slide, your right hand would go backwards(since the frame pushes more on your hand) harder if you used a heavier spring, than a lighter one. I think that's why we observe less recoil with the lighter spring.
The bullet/detonation pushing back on the slide, is similar to your left hand pushing back on the slide.
That's how I see it anyways.
Cheers!
David.
I think the heavier spring returns into battery with more force causing front of the gun to dip creating the sense of "more recoil"
When the gun is fired, the recoil energy is directed rearward. The recoil spring redirects some of that energy upward as it compresses, due to the spring being located below the barrel. With the lighter spring less of the energy is directed upward, resulting in less muzzle flip than the heavier recoil spring.
Who ever put thumbs down should be ashamed of yourself the amount of work he put into this video it's not easy to do what he did. Thumbs down should be removed from RUclips it's all based off opinion.
Thanks Jason!
I'm sure those people just swear by the heavier springs and disagree with my results. They're welcome to go test it out themselves and see what they find tho! The results will be surprising to them, it's kinda counterintuitive.
Cheers!
David.
I'm using a 9lbs spring but my slide had its weight reduced for Carry Optics, works amazingly with my 9mm loads
What grain your using at 9lbs spring?
@@vinlacest6147 3.9 Sport Pistol, you can also do it with 3.8 which makes power factor as well
Excellent. Thank you.
+Dennis McCool You're welcome! Hope this little analysis could be helpful. Cheers, David.
Many pistols with military design in mind use springs that are stronger than needed for most ammo. This will ensure the pistol can fire any ammo a soldier may come across. As stated below, military ammo tends to be loaded hot (+P equivalent?). Just like hammer springs, shitty ammo/hard primers = stronger hammer spring to whack the primer harder.
Great info! Thank you for that! Seeing as the Czech police use the CZ that makes total sense, so I guess it makes sense for hobby marksmen to reduce the spring weight when using factory ammo. Where a misfire for me won't matter much except botch my time.
Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
David.
If you use a 11lb recoil spring with out a buffer will the frame and slide have more stress and wear when the slide goes back since the spring is weaker and nothing is dampening the slide from hitting the rear? Thanks and good job on your videos! Keep it up!
Hi,
Yes, the impact will be greater between the slide and frame, but I don't think it exceeds the fatigue limit of the steel, so short answer, I think it would be fine. I definitely recommend the rubber buffer though, it helps the slide bounce back and lock into place easier, and it reduces the a mount of force transferred to the frame and your hand/wrist, therefore reducing the muzzle flip, which is all great for quicker follow up shots.
Long answer: Steel is a great metal to use due to the fact that as long as you don't exceed the fatigue limit, you won't affect the cycle life at all. Assuming that the force doesn't exceed the endurance limit of the steel even without a spring, you can use any spring you like, without reducing the cycle life.
For more information, check out the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit
Check out the blue curve for steel, that flat part of the curve basically goes beyond 1 billion cycles, so it'll never break.
The Engineers of the gun know all this, and have probably designed the gun with a large factor of safety, so that the frame doesn't fall apart in the lifetime of use.
With that said, there could be manufacturing defects that can lead to stress concentrations and fatigue propagation, cracking of the frame, that's why they should have fillets at the corners, the sharp corners lead to stress concentrations and crack propogation, more on that here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fracture_mechanics
I wouldn't worry about that, and I would just hope that it was manufactured without the imperfections that cause this type of failure.
I hope this was helpful! Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy my videos!
Cheers!
David.
Cd Videos 11lb won't break your gun I called talked to cgw and cz custom and no buffer needed...
@@minnesotanice369 Exactly. As as David is shooting IPSC competition, you want to use the lightest load which groups well in your gun and still makes over 125PF for Production minor...depending on the projectile weight that will be around 1000 to 1050fps. Defensive factory ammo can be up to 150PF or more by comparison...light springs are not going to do anything to a gun shooting light target loads.
Great video 😊👌👏
it's up and it's funny too!
my new 235 degree video
+mikey mike - NYY Lol just watched it, it was awesome!! The swing part was cool too.
Been doing my own video diag when test the recoil springs on my custom Beretta 96a1 w/EFK FireDragon 357Sig barrel. Of coarse W/C shock buffer used.
Nice.
Ya, I think the buffer is a must.
The new Shadow 2 comes standard with it, and the parts diagram includes it in there, whereas previously they excluded it. Good luck with the testing! Let us know when you get some results.
Cheers!
David.
@@DavidSunshine I do have a playlist now on this topic. 5 great videos. My friends now understand what I've been doing. Cheers Larry
Very interesting !!
Ya, it was a hypothesis that I had about the spring weights. Everyone else also thought the same thing (Lighter springs reduce recoil), but others thought that it would increase recoil (lighting spring means the slide hits the frame harder), but based on the testing I performed that day, and the post-analysis, it looks like a lighter spring does in fact reduce recoil. Myth busted!
Found this vid while researching replacing the springs in my SP01. Should I go ahead and skip the "extra power recoil spring" from MCARBO then? It's a 16lbs spring that they claim reduces recoil/muzzle flip but clearly from your analysis that doesn't seem to be the case with a 16lbs spring
Hi,
If you're using a buffer and factory rounds, the lighter springs work well. If you're using +P then heavier springs can benefit the cycling speed, especially if you have no buffer; with a buffer, it may not make a difference. If you have a good rubber buffer installed, I think lighter springs will work better overall, reducing recoil and not affecting cycling speed much, but that has to be tested with the ammo type.
I would stick to lighter springs if you have the buffer tho, since it seems to reduce recoil and muzzle flip based on my factory load testing.
Cheers,
David.
great info, but need larger data set, and provide statistical analysis (mean, mode and standard deviation)
Thanks!
Lol, I agree, that would be great to have. Good idea! Maybe on the next one.
Maybe 30 rounds each, with swaps every 10, for each spring weight. That's still not a lot, but it take forever to do hundreds of data points.
Thanks for the idea!
Cheers,
David.
124gr fmj or jhp will stove pipe with the 11lb spring. you have to use 115gr with the lighter recoil spring. I have this gun and all the recoil springs/rod
star child Thanks for sharing your experience with this, it's great information.
It'd be interesting to know more about the configuration. What brand of ammo was it that stovepiped? Factory load? Were you using a rubber buffer?
Thanks!
David.
David Sunshine all stove pipes I was using fiocchi which is hotter because it's euro. it also happens when using sig performance Winchester white box ,federal, American eagle
star child Awesome, thanks for the info. Which spring do you use which works flawlessly with the hotter ammo?
Are you using the rubber buffer? I wonder if it's ok with the lighter spring as long as you use the buffer?
David Sunshine where can you get a recoil buffer for cz-75 sp01 safety model. I can't find them
David Sunshine I wasn't using a buffer. the 14# 13# work fine
This wasn’t the airsoft video I searched up 😂
Lol ya! It probably doesn't use the same recoil springs! But I'm sure it uses some similar mechanism and springs that your can modify!
Cheers!
David.
you had no issues when chaning the spring? casings ejected fine and had no issues with getting back into battery? reason why i ask is that I heard people who changed out their recoil springs to something lighter had issues
Hi William,
Nope, no issues.
A lighter spring will allow casings to eject even faster, wouldn't it?
I use factory loads.
I know one guy who had light loads that he made, and they didn't have enough power to fully cycle the slide, so he was getting his brass jammed before it ejected.
I also use a buffer in there, so that may change the dynamics. It's always worked fine with varying springs and a buffer (with my factory ammo).
Very reliable, and I never had any ejection or cycle problems.
I also clean my gun after each trip to the range, and oil it with light gun oil, so that might help it cycle smoothly.
As long as it's not fouled up, I think it'll work perfectly. I did use some cheap ammo with steel casings once, it didn't even fit into the magazine properly, and that did give me some cycling problems, but I chewed threw that ammo and now stick to federal brass or other brass ammo now, and it's perfect.
Cheers!
David.
David Sunshine not sure about the faster ejection, u are probably right. thanks for the quick reply, also when you say you're using a buffer, is that an extra part you added? or an upgrade. (my appologies if my questions seem basic, im a new to the firearms world)
@@williamsandow3530 You're welcome!
The old Shadows didn't have a rubber buffer, so I added it, but I think the new CZs come with a few buffers. You can buy them online or in most gun shops, looks like this www.wolverinesupplies.com/ProductDetail/CZ110911247_-CZ-75-85-SP-01-Recoil-Buffer-for-CZ-Recoil-Spring-Guide-
It's worth it, keeps the metal slide from hitting the frame, metal to metal. Instead you have a rubber buffer for the slide to bounce off of. Without that buffer, you'll feel more recoil force. I think the bounce helps go back into battery too, but I haven't tested with and without buffer exclusively.
Cheers,
David.
what ammo were you using?
Thanks
Hi,
Run of the mill American Eagle Federal FMJ 115gr.
Runs smooth for me, I like it.
Cheers,
David.
Nice, What brand of 11lb recoil spring is that?
Thanks! I got it from the gun shop, and they didn't have a brand on them unfortunately, so not sure. Could it be from CZ directly? Maybe. They all probably use the same manufacturer though, so they are all probably equal in performance.
Cheers!
David.
What ammo were you using ? And does having that plastic O ring on the rod make a difference ?? I'm running a SP-01 shadow custom. Thanks
Alpha Zero Tactical Hi. Using federal American Eagle 124gr. It shoots flawlessly for me, and clean too, worth paying more rather than getting steel casing or discounted ammo. The buffer on the guide rod really helps functionality. Without it, you have more muzzle flip and recoil, with a lighter spring it'll also go back to battery much slower. So it's really beneficial having it in there(Based on my testing, I only covered the spring variance in this video, but I did test with and without the buffer just out of curiosity)
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
David.
Can you help me understand this? When the recoilspring is lighter (11lb) shouldn't the slide be faster in movement, resulting in more force going backwards (to the shooter)?
Hi,
Sure, I'll describe it as I understand it.
When the slide is cycling, the spring is what pushes against the shooter's hand, the stronger that spring is, the more force goes back into the frame. Having a heavier spring means much more force can be transferred by that spring, and therefore a higher muzzle flip occurs.
The speed the slide cycles isn't affected that much by the spring, it can't be seen on the 240fps video, however it does slow it down a small amount, but it appears to be insignificant.
The rubber buffer is essential to reducing recoil with the lighter spring, since it allows the slide to bounce off the frame, without that buffer, the benefits of a lighter spring would probably be negligible, or may even cause worse recoil since the 11lb can't store as much energy, that extra energy that isn't stored will go back into the frame and cause increased muzzle flip.
That's the hypothesis anyways, and the results from the 240fps video appears to agree with it. If I can get a 1000fps video camera, I'll do more testing, but don't have one yet.
Cheers,
David.
I'm really intrigued by the test for the same reason Kick apoo posted his comment - That's not how all the physics work with the different recoil spring weights actually, at least in theory. If you break down the total cycling process in 1 - slide moving backwards, 2 - slide hitting the frame with spring fully compressed, 3 - slide moving forward and 4 - slide reaching original position with spring fully extended, then we have this:
With a lighter spring, (1) is faster, (2) carries more inertia, hitting the frame harder, raising the muzzle higher, and keeping the slide in the back position longer, (3) is slower and (4) carries less inertia, causing less muzzle dip.
With a heavier spring, (1) is slower, (2) carries less inertia, hitting the frame softer, raising the muzzle less and keeping the slide in the back position for a shorter period, (3) is faster and (4) carries more inertia, causing more muzzle dip.
The total cycling time is actually shorter with a heavier spring because the slide doesn't stay back as long, as well as the fact the it comes forward much faster, chambering another around and resetting the trigger. So the time delta between (1) and (4) with a lighter spring is longer than with a heavier spring;
The right reason to use a lighter spring has been already exhausted here, as being to adjust to different loads - However one could use lighter springs in order to reduce the muzzle dip at the end of cycling process so as soon as the gun is ready to shoot, they could already have adjusted from the muzzle raise and be ready to pull the trigger (for faster double taps, for instance).
Long explanation to justify why I'm so intrigued with the results you captured in this video - Thank you for posting this!!!
@@czarmorer it's all about getting a pistol with a near-perfect return to zero for faster follow-up shots. Ck the 5 video play-list I have on this topic.
@@czarmorer This is absolutely right and makes total sense physically. The total amount of power transferred back to the hand is the same as long as you fire the same kind of bullet. It's just the matter of the distribution of the power during those stages of the entire slide movement. The only benefit of lighter spring is less muzzle dip. I'd say apart from ammo, if you have additional weight around the top, such as a weapon light, you'd want less mass on muzzle dip, so you'd want to consider lighter spring. The additional inertia on (2) could be countered by the additional weight of the weapon light. If you have slide cut/lightened, the slide moves faster (but the felt recoil should remain the same theoretically), so the total cycling time is shorter. You'd want a lighter spring too because you don't want the slide to move too fast to cause feeding problem. Maybe a stronger mag spring can mitigate it. If you have weapon light AND slide cut, hmmm, sounds like lighter spring for sure to me. Guide rod washer or a DPM recoil reduction system which could also reduce slide hitting the frame is your friend.
Will the 11# spring beat the frame to death sooner that the 16# spring ?
Hi,
The quick answer is no, since the failure would be fatigue or cyclic loading, the number of cycles is generally very high, if the frame were to fail, it would be a manufacturing defect before it's due to a change from 16 to 11lbs. If you want to know more, google for steel fatigue and cyclic loading, it would be very similar. I wouldn't worry about the frame breaking even without a buffer. But you should have the buffer in there so it can bounce off the frame and go into battery sooner. All this testing was with a buffer.
I didn't test it but without a buffer, I suspect the 11lb would cause more muzzle flip and take longer to go into battery.
A new rubber buffer would improve performance given the outcome of this testing, since it proves it's helping the slide bounce off the frame.
Best regards,
David.
Hey.
I just put the 11lb spring ,steal guide rod and a thin buffer in my sp01 and the brass from the casing is hitting my extractor leaving a mark. Does it do that on yours ?
Hi,
Nope, my functions normally.
From my high speed video, it also appears that the slide is going back at the same speed with both spring weights, so the cycling should be functioning about the same too, so the force at which it hits the extractor should be about the same.
Best regards,
David.
allright. could it be i have a smaller buffer on mine?
DanneTheMoH Hi, I don't think that'll cause any extra damage. What part is being damaged? Here's a picture of my extractor with the slide locked,
www.dropbox.com/s/i3ag6k3l6nmhsvx/Photo%202017-12-03%2C%203%2004%2040%20AM.jpg?dl=0
What does yours look like?
Since the brass is ejected as soon as hits the extractor, the thickness of the buffer will have no affect on the ejection. Nor would the spring weight based on the testing done in this video. There will be a small increase in force with the 11lb, but I don't think it is significant to cause anything notable.
Cheers,
David.
imgur.com/a/sFRk1
Here is mine with the etchings
nice vid ... just wanna ask, is it ok to use an 11lb recoil spring with a 230gram full metal jacket ammo? will it not damage the slide or the frame? b.t.w. mine's a cheap norinco .. your thoughts please .. thanks
Thanks man!
I haven't tested that, the slide should go faster if the powder load is the same, but I think the spring weight doesn't have a huge impact on the speed of the slide cycling open, it has more to do with the slide cycling closed.
I would definitely shoot with a buffer in place if you're using it for sport though. If you want less parts to fail, then take the buffer out, but that will cause more recoil. I'm not sure it'll actually crack the frame unless you shoot thousands of rounds though.
If I were you, I would put in a buffer, 11lb, and test it out, it should feel better with less recoil, and cycle fine. This is one of those things that is worth testing out and seeing if it works well for you. I have a feeling it will.
Hope that helps.
Cheers!
David.
Shadow only comes 9mm
Is this the Shadow or the Shadow 2? And you only changed the recoil spring?
Hi,
This is the original Shadow SP-01, not the new Shadow 2. The results would be similar though.
Although I believe they've already reduced the recoil spring of the Shadow 2, not certain but if they have, it's probably optimized for factory loads already.
For the SP-01, the spring at 16lbs is good for hot loads, at 11lbs it's more suitable for production loads.
I don't have any +P loads to test this with, but even with those, the results may be similar.
Based on my tests, I'd say the lighter springs work better with production loads, if that's what you'll be using.
Cheers,
David.
David Sunshine I have a 13# CGW recoil spring and stainless steel guide rod in my SP01 Tactical with threaded barrel. I just bought a Shadow 2. The stock recoil spring weight is 16#. Thank you!
Hi,
Great to know that the stock Shadow 2 is still the same #16.
I guess they want to maintain the ability to shoot hot loads and light loads.
It'll leave room for modifications.
#13 is probably a good balance.
I bet they have the rubber buffer in there for the Shadow 2 though, whereas for my SP-01 it was stock metal to metal, no buffers provided at all. The buffer really makes all the difference.
Cheers!
David.
@@DavidSunshine Yes the S2 has slightly lighter springs out of the box but that's because every serious IPSC competitor reloads anyway. Pistol clubs/ranges in Australia generally do not allow factory ammunition to be used in any case, and it would be ridiculously expensive to use factory even if we could.
However with lighter springs you may not ignite every primer if they are hard (Federals are soft though and should not be an issue) so if so you would need an extended firing pin & corresponding lighter firing pin spring.
Does the lighter spring greatly decrease the speed of the bullet leaving the gun? Thanks
Hi Nathan, I never tested this, but it would be interesting to test. That's a very interesting question!
My guess is as good as yours, without doing the testing, but I would think that the spring doesn't change the velocity of the bullet, and if it did, it would be a very very small amount.
I'm guessing that the inertia of the barrel and slide is enough to stay virtually stationary as the bullet accelerates and leaves the muzzle, so the spring force has very little to do with that, I wouldn't say 0, but maybe 0.005%?
Might not be able to measure it.
But ya, could do a bunch of testing on its affects to bullet speed!
Good question.
I don't have the equipment to test it though, so I won't be able to find out any time soon, unfortunately.
Cheers,
David.
I get stove pipes shooting 124gr with the light recoil spring with ss guide rod. how low should I go to avoid stove pipes
Hi,
Are you using a rubber buffer in the system? Typically a lighter spring will actually eject the brass faster and throw it further than with a heavier spring.
If you're using an 11lb spring with a rubber buffer, it should be ok, I haven't had a problem with 124gr and 115gr federal ammo.
What type of ammo are you using? Sometimes a lighter load will result in stove pipes. Although, if it's working with a heavier spring, that probably isn't the case.
Cheers,
David.
David Sunshine no rubber buffer it did with with 124 and 115
David Sunshine fiocchi Magtec white box and sig ammo
Do you have a rubber buffer? Maybe try it with that and see what happens.
If it's only the lighter spring that's causing stove piping, that's really strange since the lighter spring should actually help you throw the brass further, but the increased ejection speed might be causing some interaction with the rim of the slide, making it bounce back and catch.
Is it ok with the 16lb spring? I've only tried the 16lb stock spring and 11lb spring, and both worked for more, sorry I can't say if a 13lb will work better for you since I haven't tried it.
If varying spring weights, buffer or no buffer don't help:
Different ammo works differently in everyone's guns, so you might want to try some Federal ammo, and it might work flawlessly for you.
I've tried other types of ammo and they did cause problems in my CZ 75, so it can't eat everything out there flawlessly.
The federal has worked best for me.
Blazer brass work fine as well.
A perfectly clean and lubricated gun also helps maximize performance, so start with that. Also check for any burrs in the machining that may cause performance issues. Mine's not finished that well, and I could see polishing helping with it's performance.
Those are my 2 cents.
Cheers!
David.
star child - It might be the ss guide rod that's the culprit.Put the factory guide rod back in and see if you still get stovepipes.Either that or the pistol just doesn't like a certain kind of ammo. All the CZ-75's I've seen eat pretty much everything though.
What buffer are you using in the CZ and where did you get it?
I'm using a stock CZ one, I purchased from a local gun shop. CZ distributes the parts to their distributors, so any gun shop that carries the gun should have the spare parts handy.
How many pounds is the stock spring?
heyday101 Hi, it's 16lbs. I haven't tested to confirm but that's what majority of people say.
It definitely feels that this is correct as well.
Cheers,
David.
I just bough the Shadow 2 for IPSC and was looking for a spring upgrade.Nice job on the infographic btw! Cheers from Montréal!
Nice! You'll love it! As you probably know, it's one of the best bang for the buck, and performers even regardless of price.
Thanks man!
Enjoy!
Cheers from Vancouver!
try it with 124gr fiocchi make a video
Simple physics! Heavier spring transfers more recoil into your hand.
Exactly!! That's what we always thought, but there's the though that a lighter spring allows the slide to hit the frame harder, thus causing more recoil, but interestingly, the spring is actually the one causing muzzle flip! It was great to test this out, and show what the system does with varying spring weights. It should be noted that this testing was done with a rubber buffer only.
Cheers!
David.
good vieo
Thanks man! Glad you think so!
try an 8 pound spring on a glock 17 , not even fair lol.
Damn! Ya that would be nice, they got the variable spring so they can do that, I think the heavier spring is like a really good buffer, bouncing the slide off the frame so there is very little force transfer to the frame, thus less recoil and muzzle flip, it's a good system.