Corrections. A plume of steam rising from the locomotive may be from an boiler release by the engineer, not from a bullet strike. He may release the boiler pressure, if under attack. I indicated that the Flakvierling 38 guns mounted on the German rail car were of the light 38 mm caliber size guns. They are 20mm auto-cannon caliber size.
@chrhie Absolutely. The late, 37mm Flak M42 was an excellent, medium AA cannon. The rounds were 25% lighter, but was capable of sustaining twice the rate of fire of the Bofors. But, the Kriegsmarine had to put up with 37mm SK C/30 for the majority of the war.
I was an AF armorer stationed at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany from January 1961 to January 1964. In fall 1961 the base began the transition from F-100 to the Republic F-105 aircraft. In 1962 or 1963, can't remember for sure, Republic Aviation sent a P-47 that the company either owned or borrowed on tour of F-105 bases, I suppose to entertain the Thunderchief pilots and remind everybody of the role that the Thunderbolt had played in winning the war. If there was advance notice of the P-47's arrival I did not know about it until I stepped out of a building to behold a P-47 flying over the base at low altitude. It was an amazing sight and sound. The building I was exiting was adjacent to the main entry gate and was the frequent destination of German civilians who were working at or had business with the base. One older German gentleman who was walking in as I was coming out saw and heard the Thunderbolt at the same tine I did, and he turned white as a ghost. I realized at the moment that he had seen P-47s before, and the memory must have been terrifying. The Jug landed and sat on the ramp for a short time,, but I never got close enough to get a good look at it before it departed. I remember that it used very little of the 10,000 foot runway taking off. By 1965 I was a licensed aircraft mechanic working for a regional airline that operated CV-240 aircraft with R-2800 engines, so I became familiar with some of the work that the mechanics did to keep the Jugs flying. Several of the senior pilots at the airline were WWII combat veterans, and they had some tales to tell. Brave men all, and wonderfully skilled fliers. Also, the NCOIC of the weapons shop at Spangdahlem when I was there was Fred Archer, who had been an armorer with the Tuskegee Air squadron in WWII. He was apparently not related to the Tuskegee pilot named Archer, but I assume he knew him. Fred himself was a great leader, and the first Black NCO in the Air Force to achieve the rank of Chief Master Sergeant.
Man how cool was that! As to runways an old saying once was that if someone built a runway that ran all the way around the world that Republic would build an aircraft to use every inch of it! LOL
@@edwardpate6128 Yeah, and that aircraft was the F-84F, an ANG squadron of which was deployed to Spangdahlem temporarily following the Berlin Crisis. The Thunderjets spent most of their time thundering up noise on the trim pad trying to find more thrust so they could fly again.
Thank you for sharing all this. The reaction of that old German fellow to (i suspect mostly) the distinctive sound of that P-47 must have been a common one to so many who had been on the receiving end of them. All war is hell.
@@Hopeless_and_Forlorn- Wow, I just read the wiki article on F-84's yesterday which mentioned that deployment! I was "going down the rabbit hole" on gas turbine developments from pre-war to 1950's, especially the various "Allies" and the competition to vaccuum up german talent; some cooperative efforts, but also some dirty pool!
In 1984, I was the officer-in-charge for a .50 range at Wildflecken, West Germany. The ammo supply point issued us cases of API-T .50 ammunition in wooden cases stamped 1944. The rounds were fantastic, especially for nightfire. Every round was a tracer, and the incendiary base flashed like a camera flash when they impacted targets or the hillside behind them. My favorite range ever.
You probably had me on your range......i was stationed in Berlin and we went to Wildflecken every year. In 1984, I was there. Ma Deuce was a genius Browning design and fun to shoot.
Great video, thanks for posting. My high school geometry teacher flew the P-38 during the war. On one occasion he described an attack on a stationary hospital train. On his approach he said, "a big fat woman jumped out of one of the cars and started waving a large red cross flag". He targeted the locomotive and destroyed it. She must have been close to the engine as he said, "All I had to do was give it a little left rudder but that's not how the Buonaguidi rolls". He brought in his leather flight jacket one day. On the back was a painted P-38 with the caption "Fork Tailed Devils" underneath. He was a great teacher and somehow made geometry interesting to me. I hadn't thought of him in years. Your video brought back these memories. Thanks Mr. B! RIP
People were a bit different back then. My high school Applied Science teacher, Art Spencer, mentioned flying a B17 in combat over Berlin only once in the entire class. He worked in the Apollo program after the war and came out of a comfortable retirement to inspire and teach young people. A good man.
@@Eric-kn4yn Mmmmmm I am not so sure, most successful attacks in ww2 were at about 200m. Here is why, a ww2 train were often equipped with anti-aircraft units that had longer effective ranges than the fighters' weapons. Attacking from a longer range sacrifices the element of surprise, potentially alerting these defensive units. Additionally, there were likely disciplined troops with small arms nearby. Even in modern warfare, this remains a significant threat. For instance, I saw a video of a Syrian fighter jet being shot down by Israeli small arms fire in the Yom Kippur war. The Israeli troops kept firing a large volume of small arms bullets into the jet's flight path and successfully destoryed it. Also the accuracy of attacks decreases dramatically with range. As a rule of thumb, you need to be 4 times as accurate at 400m as you do at 200m, and 8 times as accurate at 400m compared to 100m. During World War II, as I stated most successful attacks occurred at 200m. tHE OTHER PROBLEM IS THAT as range increases, the effectiveness of ammunition decreases significantly as its velocity and so its kinite energy over distance is reduced. Remember a train naturally has substantial armor and in ww2 often more
My friend Art Elsasser flew a P-47 after D-Day. He was a famous train and tank buster. Before and after the war he was a world champion roller skater and roller dancer. He appeared on many Lawrence Welk-type of shows. He was an amazing character. He passed away a while back, but he will never be forgotten. Truly the Greatest Generation.
@@NoSTs123 People die in wars. If your relative was German (one presumes), people also died in concentration camps. I tend to think it's best not to initiate war, and for that matter, not to allow sociopaths to take power.
A pilot once told me that in order to keep strikes concentrated and prevent dispersed "walking fire", the pilot has to push down on the stick during bursts. This makes strafing all the more dangerous of course. An example of walking strikes can be seen at frames 15,50 minutes or about. These guys are real artists !
P-47 ace Gabby Gabresky pushed forward on the stick when his bullets were going over a plane sitting at a German airfield. His prop hit the ground. He had to ditch and was taken prisoner. He was supposed to go home and sell war bonds but volunteered to escort one last "milk run" instead. Fortunately it was close to the end of the war so he went home not long afterward . . . and fought in the Korean war after that. Amazing.
That one clip of the locomotive blowing up right in front of the pilot and he is able to not pull up while he sees pieces and parts ahead of him in the steam cloud always gets me. It’s one of the most used clips and for a very good reason. You couldn’t script a better visual of that type of attack if you tried.
I seem to remember the pilot involved in this, or a similar clip, appeared in a documentary- the explosion of the target rail car caught the P-51 pilot very much by surprise. The leading edges of his P-51's wings were partially flattened, the propeller blades tweaked, and the windshield was covered in oil. It was a struggle to nurse it back to base.
Neatly delivering the strategic result the pilot was after, ie disruption of logistical movement by rail. It takes considerable time to get steam back up after doing that, and I dare say it's a nervous business after being strafed. After all, you can't tell if something vital got nicked _just_ enough to hold until it reaches operating pressure... Not without a full strip-down and inspection of the boiler tubes.
That makes sense, I assumed that’s what the blast of steam coming from the stack is in several of the clips. As a bullet hole wouldn’t cause the steam to neatly exit through the top like that.
I have a friend, still living, who flew P47s with the 362 FG. He was able to obtain gun camera footage of some of his strafing. His kids made a CD of the footage for his 90th birthday.
That would be awesome! Those gun clips will be fantastic story material for generations in their family. How would a family member get footage like that? My uncle was shot down strafing a train in Germany and survived the war in prison camp. I would love to find out what fighter wing he was in and more about his life flying the P47. It was such a bad experience being a POW that he rarely talked about it and now that he passed away, I don’t know how to find any of that out.
@@F1fan007 He actually asked for the films at the end of the war and was given them. I don't imagine it could be retrieved today. In fact, undoubtedly, very few of it exists. He was in the 362 fighter group along with Francis Gabreski and some other great pilots. Matt was involved in four plane crashes and claimed that if he had crashed another one, he would have been a German Ace.
@@davidstewart1943”would have been a German ace” is a good one! He has a good sense of humor. Being in Gabreski’s squadron would have been quite an experience, but sounds like your friend would have plenty of stories of his own.
Thank you for including so much gun camera footage!! Your thorough research and the immense time and effort you put into content creation is apparent in every video you produce
13:00 Since all the bullets have the same "tadpole" shape I don't think we are seeing bullet tumbling. I'm betting there is a problem with the camera mount or camera where it is being affected by vibration which is smearing the bullet trace all in the same manner.
Flak 38's were 20mm autocannon. The 38 designates 1938, the year of adoption. Typical superfluous German designation coding. Vierling means quad. Germany used a 37mm of Oerliken origin, no 38mm. Pedantic? Yessssss. Edit: Just read the correction. Slow? Yesssssss.
I read of one P 47 which returned to base with the engine running very rough. They found the bell from a locomotive with which had been blown upward and was lodged in the engine.
My best friend's father in HS flew P-47's in Italy. He told two stories which stand out; Robert Wilson (of Colorado and New Mexico) told me the first time he flew the P-47 from a Texas training base, he poured the coal to her and the noise and acceleration were terrifying and deafening. He said his situational awareness came back to him when he was climbing through 2,000 ft! He also said he didn't think he was that good of a pilot, but that day he landed in front of the other students and instructors and was told he was the best pilot of the day (much to his surprise). His second story was he was flying with a partner P-47 in Italy, and north of a certain latitude, he could strike any military target of opportunity. He spied a train parked in the woods, so he lined up perpendicular to it, and dove on it. It was apparently an ammunition train because there was a huge secondary explosion, and he saw a railroad axel with wheels fly by him (I don't recall at what altitude) but I think he was proud that he contributed to the war effort with his P-47. He was a humble man from the Greatest Generation. It is amazing to compare the 20 and 21 y.o. pilots from WWII to the fragile, thin skinned "snowflakes" of today. Some of those pilots barely had 300 hours of flight time before they were asked to fly combat!
My uncle flew with 9th Air Force. While there’s some nice 8th AF footage, it was the 9th and 12th Air Forces that flew tactical missions that busted up rail yards, bridges, airfields and troop concentrations. The 8th gets all the press.
Excellent collection of information and footage. I remember an interview with General Chuck Yeager and him talking about strafing over Germany. He recollected the carnage that a full salvo of .50 would inflict. He lamented that he shot up everything that moved and this meant a lot of horse drawn wagons . He owned horses so this was something that stuck with him. I imagine the pilots view of the footage you shared would have been shocking.
I recall reading Yeager's autobiography about that. He had no issues with the challenges of the air-to-air dogfights, but strafing runs was another matter. My late dad actually got an up-close look at the aftermath of a strafing run on horse-drawn wagons. He was commanding a US Army supply convoy that had to drive past the remains of a shot-up retreating German column which largely consisted of horses and wagons.
9:04 the last record is also interesting: they fire-bombed a "Wooded Area Containing 40 plus JU-188s" using wing tanks with detonators, although it only counts as (1) wooded area destroyed and not (40) bombers.
If the gun camera footage is available, it means the pilot made it back right? At 14:52 that is almost hard to believe. This plane must have sustained some serious damage from flying though this metal rain
Or got lucky. That debris field is still mostly air, after all. Not that I'd want to be the one doing maintenance on the engine after it sucked in a mouthful of whatever combustion product that was.
Correct. Gun camera footage had to be removed from the aircraft before it could be viewed. It was that way certainly until the 1990s. A-10s actually had a VHS cassette in the wheel well
I remember reading a P-47 pilot relating how he was attacking a train when the sides of a train car dropped down revealing a flak gun. He fired on the flak gun at the same time as they fired on him. They both hit their targets. His engine immediately began running rough, but kept running long enough to get back to base. After he landed, he discovered that the flak gun had completely destroyed one of his engines' cylinders, but the 18 cylinder, double row radial kept running. The cylinder, connecting rod and piston were all missing when he landed. Perhaps one reason why they warned against diving on trains was the fact that the P-47 was the fastest Allied fighter aircraft,,,in a dive.
2:05 Packed more firepower than the P-38? Subject to some debate. In addition to its four .50 cal, the P-38 also had a 20mm cannon. PLUS, the concentrated, parallel stream of fire from having the guns and cannon all mounted together in the nose resulted in effective destructive power at much longer distances than fighters carrying wing guns that had convergence of the lead at a specific distance. “Firepower” effectiveness is dependent on HITTING the target, and the destructive impact of each round. So while the P-47’s eight .50cals were impressive, in many circumstances a P-38 hitting more accurately and with a more destructive, heavier cannon shell in addition to the .50s would offset the P-47’s extra guns.
Never forget, at times, our pilots had to attack trains that had POWs on them. How do I know this. My father was one of them. He was a B-24 tail gunner, shot down over Germany and taken prisoner. Was moved on trains multiple times. By the grace of God he survived. He did have to witness a fellow POW literally disappear next to him when he was hit by fire from one of our own fighters. He was only 18 or 19 years old. A strong man to the end, but I know he suffered silently with PTSD most of his life.
On the 'bullets showing erratic behaviour' (13:00) - I think this is not the (tracer) bullets being erratic, but the vibration of the gun camera which is causing this effect.
@@mikeellis9720 The Allies killed a lot of French Civilians. LOTS. Look at te rubble of the Normandy towns. 10's of thousands would have been killed in carpet bombing. They ruined ancient cities chasing the germans out.
Absolutely fascinating, thanks for your work in compiling this resource. It is a surprisingly short period of time during which strafing occurs - compared with what I observe in movies! And yet here there are many depictions of boiler and other explosions, suggesting very accurate marksmanship. The RAF equivalent of the P-47 in this role was the Typhoon, which had even heavier armament with four Hispano 20mm cannon; but it lacked the greater safety and robustness of the P--47. In Pierre Clostermann's memoirs, he describes the high casualties involved in these strafing missions, and how much he hated and feared the Flak. He found flying into a wall or box of Flak was much tougher for him to deal with, than had been dogfighting or attacking bombers.
A great video. The detailed AF analysis was especially interesting because that info was important to get to the operational squadrons ASAP to increase their mission effectiveness.
Quite informative. Great stuff as always. Great clipping together the strafing at the end - it's pretty apparent when the pop the boiler on the locomotive. One possible errata - I believe the Flakvierling 38 is a 20mm quad mount, not a 38mm.
My aunt and my unborn cousin were killed on a train being strafed. Colateral damage. I believe the method was to machine gun the train from back to front and fire cannons as the engine was reached. I remember reading somewhere that some pilots were concerned about civilian casualties but had to carry on to get the war finished.
8:12 the table lists one P-38 lost with cause 'Droop-Snoot'. A quick google suggests that was a pathfinder mission, which could be an interesting video topic if it hasn't been covered in detail yet (outside the Tokyo video).
The P-47 could carry a maximum of 425 rounds per gun, which is 3,400 round in total. Loads were sometimes reduced as a weight saving measure. (3,400 rounds of .50 cal. weighed about 1,054 lbs; 2,136 rounds weighed about 662 lbs, a savings of 392 lbs.)
true capacity of each ammo box was, in fact, 500 rounds. Unless they did modifications to the boxes from the model 'C' onwards (but, rather unlikely indeed), the prototype XP-47B and all the P-47B had room for 500 rpg, total 4,000 rounds. Also read somewhere, by using as great care as possible something like 515 - 520 rounds could get stored inside each box. But aside this, 500 rounds was more than possible.
@@francescofissore161 The Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions manual for the P-47D-25 to -35 (publication AN 01-65BC-1A dated 25 Jan. 1945) in the armament section states that the maximum number of rounds per gun is 425.
@@primmakinsofis614 that's right, however the prototype and the 171 P-47B built all had boxes with capacity of 500 rounds each, that's comproved. Do not know whether they got redesigned (if so, wich the reason?) from the P-47C onward or, other factors came into play to decide for 425 rounds - as the maximum, inside boxes that could carry 500. Read time ago about the P-47N (at least, a number of them) of the 318th F.G. based at Ie Shima in late springtime 1945, they got the very latest variant of the Browning machine gun. The M3 that replaced in small numbers the M2 fired at 1,200 rpm instead of the usual 750 - 800 rpm and they had those Thunderbolts going into mission with the full ammo capacity - 4,000 rounds, and (but this isn't confirmed) if loading with care and attention, a total of 4,200 was possible in extreme cases.
I think we might be inclined take it for granted that the priority mission for the 8th AF was the destruction of the Luftwaffe, even for the bombers. The popular consensus is that Allied bomber fleets simply aimed to reduce German to rubble so she couldn't fight the war, and any interaction with enemy air forces was an unavoidable consequence of the pursuit of this aim. Gregs channel covers this topic extremely well. It is important as it frames many of the decisions (and mistakes!) made in the appropriate context.
I recently learned that Bomber Command suffered a significantly higher killed to pow ratio than Eighth Air Force. A really massive disparity like 5 or 6 killed to 1 pow for Bomber Command versus approximately 1 to 1 for Eighth Air Force. I know you've already got some videos on crew survival for turret gunner, but perhaps an overall look at what happens when a plane goes down, including training, equipment, plane design, and general circumstances surrounding shoot down that lead to survival or not.
Night? Even something basic like jumping out of a airplane might be difficult if you don't see a thing. Imagine landing a parachute at night without breaking every single bone in your body, or ditching wounded plane in the water at night.
@@randomnickify That's definitely one, and maybe the most important, factor. From what I've read, some other possible factors include 1) much better design of B-17 for quick and easy bail out 2) sturdier construction and design of B-17 resulting in fewer catastrophic failures and more time to bail out 3) lack of co-pilot on many British bombers and 4) differences in attacks on bombers at night, primarily greater risk of flak versus fighters, resulting in more catastrophic failures in night attacks (not sure I believe this last factor as obviously lots of flak in day and lots of fighters at night and not sure there should be much of a difference in surviving a shoot down between the two).
You can see them venting the steam in the engine - that's the large plume of steam rising from the funnel. This prevents a catastrophic steam explosion which can occur if the boiler is damaged at high pressure.
Pretty good video. I hadn't heard of the whole 90° to travel attack, but it makes sense to complicate AA gunnery. Just one small thing really, I believe at 5:42 you may have slipped and said that the flak 38 was a 38mm gun, but the 38 usually only denotes model type and was actually a 20mm gun as you mention later
Interesting even more so as my father was a P47 pilot as part of the 27th Fighter Group, squadron 524 in WWII. They flew out of Italy and then moved in to Germany near the end of the war. He told me that if it moved on the ground, they killed it. Trains were basically sitting ducks according to my father. He did tell me his wingman said my dad dropped his bomb directly down the smokestack on one train. Yes, a story, but they did try and get my father to train as a bombardier before the final phase of flight school. No real proof that he actually did that since it would have been an incredible feat, but apparently he had a good eye. Still have some of his gun camera photos and there are some showing a bombing run on a rail yard somewhere in Italy or Germany. Anyways, the 47 was hell on earth to those unlucky enough to be on the ground under fire.
Excellent stuff, in one of the catostrophic detonations another fighter on the attack in the left low frame can be seen getting violently upset and spinning out of control toward the earth. RIP brave pilots
I met a guy in CO who was a Free Polish pilot flying Spitfires out of England. They were usually assigned to taking out trains, strafing, etc. His biggest lesson was to ensure when attacking a train the planes were staged such that when the train blew, shrapnel would not hit the other plane. After that lesson, he had to fly home with a stick jammed with very limited for/aft motion because of a piece of train jamming his elevator.
Another well researched and presented video! Thanks for all the hard work sourcing the documents and putting it all together. This is a top tier history channel in my opinion. Hope you are well, All the best
A bit off topic, but at 3:54 there seems to be a captured french S35 tank with Wehrmachtsinsignia on a train. I seems to me that it is used as an improvised rail gun. Or is it just transported?
The P-47 Thunderbolt was an excellent strafing aircraft with those eight forward firing 50 caliber machine guns completely destroying ANYTHING in it's path! It was also the most sturdy built fighter of WWII. Later in WWII, strafing increased as the allies gained air superiority and as the Luftwaffe ran out of fuel towards the end of the war. The Luftwaffe could only make a limited response as the war came to a close, the allied pilots had pretty much free rain during their CAP patrols to strafe whatever moving target they saw on the ground. Many strafing runs were made after their initial attack on their primary targets, with most of the strafing taking place on their way back to their base on targets of opportunity such as trains, cars, trucks, troop formations, tanks, and armoured vehicles that were observed by the pilots. Some pilots were better than others in strafing. The same could be said about air to air combat (Dogfighting) as some pilots were better than others. The Thunderbolt had a wide oblique angle to hit a train across multiple cars in one run if the bullets were place in the right position and the Thunderbolt attacked from the side rather than down the line of the train. Both methods were effective, but most trains were attacked from a slight diving attack trying to hit the locomotive in the front from the side rather than from the top, or up the line of cars. Either way, all three primary fighters (P-38 Lightning, P-47 Thunderbolt, and the P-51 Mustang were excellent fighters and strafers. The Thunderbolt was the "most robust" of the airframes and by far the largest of the three planes. The P-38 for as big as it looks in photos and on TV, is a very sleek airframe and it looks much smaller in person. The Thunderbolt looks HUGE when you stand next to it, almost like a Douglas Skyraider which was made operational too late for WW2, but had the Skyraider been available earlier, it would have eclipsed the other three probably because it could carry a large ordinance payload.
Corrections. A plume of steam rising from the locomotive may be from an boiler release by the engineer, not from a bullet strike. He may release the boiler pressure, if under attack. I indicated that the Flakvierling 38 guns mounted on the German rail car were of the light 38 mm caliber size guns. They are 20mm auto-cannon caliber size.
great vid many thx, greetings from Wales
The Flak 30/38 fired their heavier 20x138 round, instead of the lighter 20x82, used in their aircraft.(MG151/20)
The Flakvierling 38 was first introduced in 1938. Like the MP 40 machine pistol in 1940.
Yep, and in addition, they had 37mm flak about equivalent to the US 40 mm
@chrhie Absolutely. The late, 37mm Flak M42 was an excellent, medium AA cannon. The rounds were 25% lighter, but was capable of sustaining twice the rate of fire of the Bofors. But, the Kriegsmarine had to put up with 37mm SK C/30 for the majority of the war.
I was an AF armorer stationed at Spangdahlem AFB in Germany from January 1961 to January 1964. In fall 1961 the base began the transition from F-100 to the Republic F-105 aircraft. In 1962 or 1963, can't remember for sure, Republic Aviation sent a P-47 that the company either owned or borrowed on tour of F-105 bases, I suppose to entertain the Thunderchief pilots and remind everybody of the role that the Thunderbolt had played in winning the war. If there was advance notice of the P-47's arrival I did not know about it until I stepped out of a building to behold a P-47 flying over the base at low altitude. It was an amazing sight and sound. The building I was exiting was adjacent to the main entry gate and was the frequent destination of German civilians who were working at or had business with the base. One older German gentleman who was walking in as I was coming out saw and heard the Thunderbolt at the same tine I did, and he turned white as a ghost. I realized at the moment that he had seen P-47s before, and the memory must have been terrifying. The Jug landed and sat on the ramp for a short time,, but I never got close enough to get a good look at it before it departed. I remember that it used very little of the 10,000 foot runway taking off. By 1965 I was a licensed aircraft mechanic working for a regional airline that operated CV-240 aircraft with R-2800 engines, so I became familiar with some of the work that the mechanics did to keep the Jugs flying. Several of the senior pilots at the airline were WWII combat veterans, and they had some tales to tell. Brave men all, and wonderfully skilled fliers. Also, the NCOIC of the weapons shop at Spangdahlem when I was there was Fred Archer, who had been an armorer with the Tuskegee Air squadron in WWII. He was apparently not related to the Tuskegee pilot named Archer, but I assume he knew him. Fred himself was a great leader, and the first Black NCO in the Air Force to achieve the rank of Chief Master Sergeant.
Man how cool was that! As to runways an old saying once was that if someone built a runway that ran all the way around the world that Republic would build an aircraft to use every inch of it! LOL
@@edwardpate6128 Yeah, and that aircraft was the F-84F, an ANG squadron of which was deployed to Spangdahlem temporarily following the Berlin Crisis. The Thunderjets spent most of their time thundering up noise on the trim pad trying to find more thrust so they could fly again.
🫡🫡
Thank you for sharing all this. The reaction of that old German fellow to (i suspect mostly) the distinctive sound of that P-47 must have been a common one to so many who had been on the receiving end of them. All war is hell.
@@Hopeless_and_Forlorn- Wow, I just read the wiki article on F-84's yesterday which mentioned that deployment! I was "going down the rabbit hole" on gas turbine developments from pre-war to 1950's, especially the various "Allies" and the competition to vaccuum up german talent; some cooperative efforts, but also some dirty pool!
In 1984, I was the officer-in-charge for a .50 range at Wildflecken, West Germany. The ammo supply point issued us cases of API-T .50 ammunition in wooden cases stamped 1944. The rounds were fantastic, especially for nightfire. Every round was a tracer, and the incendiary base flashed like a camera flash when they impacted targets or the hillside behind them. My favorite range ever.
You probably had me on your range......i was stationed in Berlin and we went to Wildflecken every year. In 1984, I was there. Ma Deuce was a genius Browning design and fun to shoot.
Great video, thanks for posting. My high school geometry teacher flew the P-38 during the war. On one occasion he described an attack on a stationary hospital train. On his approach he said, "a big fat woman jumped out of one of the cars and started waving a large red cross flag". He targeted the locomotive and destroyed it. She must have been close to the engine as he said, "All I had to do was give it a little left rudder but that's not how the Buonaguidi rolls". He brought in his leather flight jacket one day. On the back was a painted P-38 with the caption "Fork Tailed Devils" underneath. He was a great teacher and somehow made geometry interesting to me. I hadn't thought of him in years. Your video brought back these memories. Thanks Mr. B! RIP
People were a bit different back then. My high school Applied Science teacher, Art Spencer, mentioned flying a B17 in combat over Berlin only once in the entire class. He worked in the Apollo program after the war and came out of a comfortable retirement to inspire and teach young people. A good man.
that is, he deliberately shot at a Red Cross train - without a locomotive to move, many wounded would surely have died ... ✨🙏
400 yards is very close. Those pilots had some serious intestinal fortitude to make these types of strikes. Excellent analysis!
It goes with the job, as the effective range of the P-47's machine guns was about 400 yards
@@WagesOfDestructioncould be longer range as train was a really big target..
I think you're auto correct didn't like" testicular fortitude " and yes, they did
@@Eric-kn4yn Mmmmmm
I am not so sure, most successful attacks in ww2 were at about 200m.
Here is why, a ww2 train were often equipped with anti-aircraft units that had longer effective ranges than the fighters' weapons. Attacking from a longer range sacrifices the element of surprise, potentially alerting these defensive units.
Additionally, there were likely disciplined troops with small arms nearby. Even in modern warfare, this remains a significant threat. For instance, I saw a video of a Syrian fighter jet being shot down by Israeli small arms fire in the Yom Kippur war. The Israeli troops kept firing a large volume of small arms bullets into the jet's flight path and successfully destoryed it.
Also the accuracy of attacks decreases dramatically with range. As a rule of thumb, you need to be 4 times as accurate at 400m as you do at 200m, and 8 times as accurate at 400m compared to 100m. During World War II, as I stated most successful attacks occurred at 200m.
tHE OTHER PROBLEM IS THAT as range increases, the effectiveness of ammunition decreases significantly as its velocity and so its kinite energy over distance is reduced. Remember a train naturally has substantial armor and in ww2 often more
Assuming the aircraft is going 500mph and the target is 400 yards away, the pilot has less than two seconds before the plane flies over the target.
My friend Art Elsasser flew a P-47 after D-Day. He was a famous train and tank buster. Before and after the war he was a world champion roller skater and roller dancer. He appeared on many Lawrence Welk-type of shows. He was an amazing character.
He passed away a while back, but he will never be forgotten. Truly the Greatest Generation.
My Great-Great-Grandfather was strafed by a british plane and killed while driving a car. Truly the Greatest Generation.
@@NoSTs123 People die in wars. If your relative was German (one presumes), people also died in concentration camps. I tend to think it's best not to initiate war, and for that matter, not to allow sociopaths to take power.
@@davidg3944 ok
My most sincere condolences for your loss. @@NoSTs123
@@davidg3944, one month after your post, and I am extremely apprehensive that we seem poised to do that very thing.
Checked all three boxes: informative, interesting AND worthy of my time. Thanks!
A pilot once told me that in order to keep strikes concentrated and prevent dispersed "walking fire", the pilot has to push down on the stick during bursts. This makes strafing all the more dangerous of course. An example of walking strikes can be seen at frames 15,50 minutes or about. These guys are real artists !
P-47 ace Gabby Gabresky pushed forward on the stick when his bullets were going over a plane sitting at a German airfield. His prop hit the ground. He had to ditch and was taken prisoner. He was supposed to go home and sell war bonds but volunteered to escort one last "milk run" instead. Fortunately it was close to the end of the war so he went home not long afterward . . . and fought in the Korean war after that. Amazing.
That one clip of the locomotive blowing up right in front of the pilot and he is able to not pull up while he sees pieces and parts ahead of him in the steam cloud always gets me. It’s one of the most used clips and for a very good reason. You couldn’t script a better visual of that type of attack if you tried.
"OHHHH SHIT SHIT SHIT"
He must have survived and got back.
I seem to remember the pilot involved in this, or a similar clip, appeared in a documentary- the explosion of the target rail car caught the P-51 pilot very much by surprise. The leading edges of his P-51's wings were partially flattened, the propeller blades tweaked, and the windshield was covered in oil. It was a struggle to nurse it back to base.
@@howardsimpson489Yeah, we don’t see the film of the ones that didn’t make it.
There is a drone pilot in Iceland, Isak, who has flown his FPV drone through the lava fountains. One instinctively ducks while watching them.
Man. this's stuff is just mega, nothing but facts and NOT biased opinions, thank you!
The comment about the tumbling bullets because of the overheated gun barrels, I found to be informative and interesting.
I also read that german train operators would also blow all the steam out when they were strafed to help prevent a boiler explosion.
Neatly delivering the strategic result the pilot was after, ie disruption of logistical movement by rail. It takes considerable time to get steam back up after doing that, and I dare say it's a nervous business after being strafed. After all, you can't tell if something vital got nicked _just_ enough to hold until it reaches operating pressure... Not without a full strip-down and inspection of the boiler tubes.
That makes sense, I assumed that’s what the blast of steam coming from the stack is in several of the clips. As a bullet hole wouldn’t cause the steam to neatly exit through the top like that.
@@oscodains I was wondering the same thing. It sure looked like some of the vertical columns of steam where controlled releases.
the locomotives were repairable if they didn't get bombed or hit by rockets. that is if they could get to it!
If the engineer "dumped" the steam head, there was much less of a chance of a "steam explosion" which would destroy the boiler and SCALD him.
Very informative, very entertaining & absolutely worthy of our time! Thanks for uploading.
I get an adrenaline rush flying that close to the ground in games.
Can you imagine the overwhelming feeling of doing it for real. Damn
An ammunition train was straffed close to my grandparents house. There were still some wagon parts in the hedges 40 years later 😊
Thanks!
Your welcome. I appreciate the generous channel donation. It is much appreciated.
I have a friend, still living, who flew P47s with the 362 FG. He was able to obtain gun camera footage of some of his strafing. His kids made a CD of the footage for his 90th birthday.
That would be awesome! Those gun clips will be fantastic story material for generations in their family. How would a family member get footage like that? My uncle was shot down strafing a train in Germany and survived the war in prison camp. I would love to find out what fighter wing he was in and more about his life flying the P47. It was such a bad experience being a POW that he rarely talked about it and now that he passed away, I don’t know how to find any of that out.
@@F1fan007 He actually asked for the films at the end of the war and was given them. I don't imagine it could be retrieved today. In fact, undoubtedly, very few of it exists. He was in the 362 fighter group along with Francis Gabreski and some other great pilots. Matt was involved in four plane crashes and claimed that if he had crashed another one, he would have been a German Ace.
@@davidstewart1943”would have been a German ace” is a good one! He has a good sense of humor. Being in Gabreski’s squadron would have been quite an experience, but sounds like your friend would have plenty of stories of his own.
Thank you for including so much gun camera footage!! Your thorough research and the immense time and effort you put into content creation is apparent in every video you produce
Thank you for another informative video.
👍
13:00 Since all the bullets have the same "tadpole" shape I don't think we are seeing bullet tumbling. I'm betting there is a problem with the camera mount or camera where it is being affected by vibration which is smearing the bullet trace all in the same manner.
I agree
Exactly correct. The bullets aren’t tumbling the camera is loose in its mount.
Excellent information Sir, greetings from Lima-Perú!!!!
Flak 38's were 20mm autocannon. The 38 designates 1938, the year of adoption. Typical superfluous German designation coding. Vierling means quad. Germany used a 37mm of Oerliken origin, no 38mm. Pedantic? Yessssss.
Edit: Just read the correction.
Slow? Yesssssss.
Ya, others have pointed out the incorrect AA identification caliber size. Thanks for the channel donation, It is much appreciated.
My 3 favorite planes of all times. Thank you.
I read of one P 47 which returned to base with the engine running very rough. They found the bell from a locomotive with which had been blown upward and was lodged in the engine.
That almost sounds apocryphal, but certainly could have happened!
Great job as always. Appreciate the accuracy and effort.
My best friend's father in HS flew P-47's in Italy. He told two stories which stand out; Robert Wilson (of Colorado and New Mexico) told me the first time he flew the P-47 from a Texas training base, he poured the coal to her and the noise and acceleration were terrifying and deafening. He said his situational awareness came back to him when he was climbing through 2,000 ft! He also said he didn't think he was that good of a pilot, but that day he landed in front of the other students and instructors and was told he was the best pilot of the day (much to his surprise).
His second story was he was flying with a partner P-47 in Italy, and north of a certain latitude, he could strike any military target of opportunity. He spied a train parked in the woods, so he lined up perpendicular to it, and dove on it. It was apparently an ammunition train because there was a huge secondary explosion, and he saw a railroad axel with wheels fly by him (I don't recall at what altitude) but I think he was proud that he contributed to the war effort with his P-47. He was a humble man from the Greatest Generation. It is amazing to compare the 20 and 21 y.o. pilots from WWII to the fragile, thin skinned "snowflakes" of today. Some of those pilots barely had 300 hours of flight time before they were asked to fly combat!
Boomers aren't the Greatest Generation.
I'm guessing today's pilots are just fine.
@@goldleader6074 Boomers are the GG's kids.
"we will review 50 train strafing attacks"
"Surely he must have said 15" - Me, before remembering what channel I'm watching
My uncle flew with 9th Air Force. While there’s some nice 8th AF footage, it was the 9th and 12th Air Forces that flew tactical missions that busted up rail yards, bridges, airfields and troop concentrations. The 8th gets all the press.
Armored railcars sounds like a fun topic. Would welcome hearing some of those stories🐿
...and if it has concrete armour best to go for the engine or tracks.
Excellent collection of information and footage.
I remember an interview with General Chuck Yeager and him talking about strafing over Germany.
He recollected the carnage that a full salvo of .50 would inflict. He lamented that he shot up everything that moved and this meant a lot of horse drawn wagons . He owned horses so this was something that stuck with him.
I imagine the pilots view of the footage you shared would have been shocking.
I recall reading Yeager's autobiography about that. He had no issues with the challenges of the air-to-air dogfights, but strafing runs was another matter.
My late dad actually got an up-close look at the aftermath of a strafing run on horse-drawn wagons. He was commanding a US Army supply convoy that had to drive past the remains of a shot-up retreating German column which largely consisted of horses and wagons.
ruclips.net/video/V6cl4TvZopA/видео.html
Here are some actual gun camera clips of what you mentioned.
Outstanding analysis
Beautiful work 😊
Thank you for posting.
So much insightful info - gave me new appreciation for the gun camera footages and the approach methods. Thank you!
9:04 the last record is also interesting: they fire-bombed a "Wooded Area Containing 40 plus JU-188s" using wing tanks with detonators, although it only counts as (1) wooded area destroyed and not (40) bombers.
If the gun camera footage is available, it means the pilot made it back right? At 14:52 that is almost hard to believe. This plane must have sustained some serious damage from flying though this metal rain
Or got lucky. That debris field is still mostly air, after all. Not that I'd want to be the one doing maintenance on the engine after it sucked in a mouthful of whatever combustion product that was.
Correct. Gun camera footage had to be removed from the aircraft before it could be viewed. It was that way certainly until the 1990s. A-10s actually had a VHS cassette in the wheel well
Excellent presentation & Very well researched. Fascinating strafing clips as well. Very well done!
Great video as always, love compilation at the end. Must've been some effort! Thanks!
I remember reading a P-47 pilot relating how he was attacking a train when the sides of a train car dropped down revealing a flak gun. He fired on the flak gun at the same time as they fired on him. They both hit their targets. His engine immediately began running rough, but kept running long enough to get back to base. After he landed, he discovered that the flak gun had completely destroyed one of his engines' cylinders, but the 18 cylinder, double row radial kept running. The cylinder, connecting rod and piston were all missing when he landed.
Perhaps one reason why they warned against diving on trains was the fact that the P-47 was the fastest Allied fighter aircraft,,,in a dive.
2:05 Packed more firepower than the P-38? Subject to some debate. In addition to its four .50 cal, the P-38 also had a 20mm cannon. PLUS, the concentrated, parallel stream of fire from having the guns and cannon all mounted together in the nose resulted in effective destructive power at much longer distances than fighters carrying wing guns that had convergence of the lead at a specific distance. “Firepower” effectiveness is dependent on HITTING the target, and the destructive impact of each round. So while the P-47’s eight .50cals were impressive, in many circumstances a P-38 hitting more accurately and with a more destructive, heavier cannon shell in addition to the .50s would offset the P-47’s extra guns.
Some fansastic gun camera footage there, great video 👍
Never forget, at times, our pilots had to attack trains that had POWs on them. How do I know this. My father was one of them. He was a B-24 tail gunner, shot down over Germany and taken prisoner. Was moved on trains multiple times. By the grace of God he survived. He did have to witness a fellow POW literally disappear next to him when he was hit by fire from one of our own fighters. He was only 18 or 19 years old. A strong man to the end, but I know he suffered silently with PTSD most of his life.
On the 'bullets showing erratic behaviour' (13:00) - I think this is not the (tracer) bullets being erratic, but the vibration of the gun camera which is causing this effect.
Lol, I posted about that too. But if you watch some of the individual rounds, they're definitely not all going in the same direction.
I would not want to be on the receiving end of these attacks. It must have been traumatic.
I remember also reading there was Allied POW's in some of these trains. Damn!
As the Chieftain would say: "An emotional event".
And the French people in those houses close to the tracks were in danger as well. One house is shown taking some direct hits...
@@mikeellis9720 The Allies killed a lot of French Civilians. LOTS. Look at te rubble of the Normandy towns. 10's of thousands would have been killed in carpet bombing. They ruined ancient cities chasing the germans out.
The tumbling bullets could also be due to worn out barrels. The rifling gets worn out and affects the trajectory of the rounds.
Your best video yet. Thanks
Fantastic and right to the point ,so many statistics and flight facts of the P47 in full attack mode!
Amazing review of the tactics and thought behind these attacks. Your commentary was also very interesting. Could watch for hours!
Absolutely fascinating, thanks for your work in compiling this resource.
It is a surprisingly short period of time during which strafing occurs - compared with what I observe in movies! And yet here there are many depictions of boiler and other explosions, suggesting very accurate marksmanship.
The RAF equivalent of the P-47 in this role was the Typhoon, which had even heavier armament with four Hispano 20mm cannon; but it lacked the greater safety and robustness of the P--47. In Pierre Clostermann's memoirs, he describes the high casualties involved in these strafing missions, and how much he hated and feared the Flak. He found flying into a wall or box of Flak was much tougher for him to deal with, than had been dogfighting or attacking bombers.
A great video. The detailed AF analysis was especially interesting because that info was important to get to the operational squadrons ASAP to increase their mission effectiveness.
Quite informative. Great stuff as always. Great clipping together the strafing at the end - it's pretty apparent when the pop the boiler on the locomotive.
One possible errata - I believe the Flakvierling 38 is a 20mm quad mount, not a 38mm.
Exactly.
The special appearance by Admiral Ackbar was awesome. Another great presentation. Thank you!
My aunt and my unborn cousin were killed on a train being strafed. Colateral damage. I believe the method was to machine gun the train from back to front and fire cannons as the engine was reached.
I remember reading somewhere that some pilots were concerned about civilian casualties but had to carry on to get the war finished.
8:12 the table lists one P-38 lost with cause 'Droop-Snoot'.
A quick google suggests that was a pathfinder mission, which could be an interesting video topic if it hasn't been covered in detail yet (outside the Tokyo video).
concise, info dense, and great sourcing. fantastic video.
The P-47 could carry a maximum of 425 rounds per gun, which is 3,400 round in total. Loads were sometimes reduced as a weight saving measure. (3,400 rounds of .50 cal. weighed about 1,054 lbs; 2,136 rounds weighed about 662 lbs, a savings of 392 lbs.)
true capacity of each ammo box was, in fact, 500 rounds. Unless they did modifications to the boxes from the model 'C' onwards (but, rather unlikely indeed), the prototype XP-47B and all the P-47B had room for 500 rpg, total 4,000 rounds.
Also read somewhere, by using as great care as possible something like 515 - 520 rounds could get stored inside each box.
But aside this, 500 rounds was more than possible.
@@francescofissore161 The Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions manual for the P-47D-25 to -35 (publication AN 01-65BC-1A dated 25 Jan. 1945) in the armament section states that the maximum number of rounds per gun is 425.
@@primmakinsofis614 that's right, however the prototype and the 171 P-47B built all had boxes with capacity of 500 rounds each, that's comproved. Do not know whether they got redesigned (if so, wich the reason?) from the P-47C onward or, other factors came into play to decide for 425 rounds - as the maximum, inside boxes that could carry 500.
Read time ago about the P-47N (at least, a number of them) of the 318th F.G. based at Ie Shima in late springtime 1945, they got the very latest variant of the Browning machine gun. The M3 that replaced in small numbers the M2 fired at 1,200 rpm instead of the usual 750 - 800 rpm and they had those Thunderbolts going into mission with the full ammo capacity - 4,000 rounds, and (but this isn't confirmed) if loading with care and attention, a total of 4,200 was possible in extreme cases.
This analysis is absolutely amazing. Thank You for it.
Great video. You answered a lot of questions for me regarding this topic which has interested me for many years.
I think we might be inclined take it for granted that the priority mission for the 8th AF was the destruction of the Luftwaffe, even for the bombers. The popular consensus is that Allied bomber fleets simply aimed to reduce German to rubble so she couldn't fight the war, and any interaction with enemy air forces was an unavoidable consequence of the pursuit of this aim. Gregs channel covers this topic extremely well. It is important as it frames many of the decisions (and mistakes!) made in the appropriate context.
I recently learned that Bomber Command suffered a significantly higher killed to pow ratio than Eighth Air Force. A really massive disparity like 5 or 6 killed to 1 pow for Bomber Command versus approximately 1 to 1 for Eighth Air Force. I know you've already got some videos on crew survival for turret gunner, but perhaps an overall look at what happens when a plane goes down, including training, equipment, plane design, and general circumstances surrounding shoot down that lead to survival or not.
Night? Even something basic like jumping out of a airplane might be difficult if you don't see a thing. Imagine landing a parachute at night without breaking every single bone in your body, or ditching wounded plane in the water at night.
@@randomnickify That's definitely one, and maybe the most important, factor. From what I've read, some other possible factors include 1) much better design of B-17 for quick and easy bail out 2) sturdier construction and design of B-17 resulting in fewer catastrophic failures and more time to bail out 3) lack of co-pilot on many British bombers and 4) differences in attacks on bombers at night, primarily greater risk of flak versus fighters, resulting in more catastrophic failures in night attacks (not sure I believe this last factor as obviously lots of flak in day and lots of fighters at night and not sure there should be much of a difference in surviving a shoot down between the two).
Impossible to crash land a plane at night safely.
Thanks for posting!
Is there any information on what train crew were expected to do when being straffed? Did they try to keep going or slam on the brakes?
You can see them venting the steam in the engine - that's the large plume of steam rising from the funnel.
This prevents a catastrophic steam explosion which can occur if the boiler is damaged at high pressure.
When German soldiers looked up and saw both P-47's and Hawker Typhoon's conducting ground attack missions it must have been pretty disheartening!
Great video! Thank you.
Superbly informative; many thanks.
Really interesting historical material, and very well presented.
I really enjoyed this video - thanks
It was very worthy of my time. Thank you for the information, it was very informative, absinthe THANK YOU.
Wow, this is great, combat footage plus explanation. Thanks.
Pretty good video. I hadn't heard of the whole 90° to travel attack, but it makes sense to complicate AA gunnery. Just one small thing really, I believe at 5:42 you may have slipped and said that the flak 38 was a 38mm gun, but the 38 usually only denotes model type and was actually a 20mm gun as you mention later
GREAT INFO AND FILM THANKS
WOW!!! I thought I d seen all the WW2 FOOTAGE but this video just showed me a whole lots that I ve never seen before GREAT WORK !
Superior work. Thank you.
Interesting even more so as my father was a P47 pilot as part of the 27th Fighter Group, squadron 524 in WWII. They flew out of Italy and then moved in to Germany near the end of the war. He told me that if it moved on the ground, they killed it. Trains were basically sitting ducks according to my father. He did tell me his wingman said my dad dropped his bomb directly down the smokestack on one train. Yes, a story, but they did try and get my father to train as a bombardier before the final phase of flight school. No real proof that he actually did that since it would have been an incredible feat, but apparently he had a good eye. Still have some of his gun camera photos and there are some showing a bombing run on a rail yard somewhere in Italy or Germany. Anyways, the 47 was hell on earth to those unlucky enough to be on the ground under fire.
Well researched & put together presentation.
Excellent stuff, in one of the catostrophic detonations another fighter on the attack in the left low frame can be seen getting violently upset and spinning out of control toward the earth. RIP brave pilots
Always informative.
I love this channel so much.
Great vid.
I love gun cam footage.
New subscriber due to this video.
Thanks man.
Nicely done.
I really enjoyed your video.
Informative, concise and some great video.
Well done sir.
So Cool . Thank You
Good work! Something new.
Thank you. Great presentation
As usual, high quality information 17:32
I met a guy in CO who was a Free Polish pilot flying Spitfires out of England. They were usually assigned to taking out trains, strafing, etc. His biggest lesson was to ensure when attacking a train the planes were staged such that when the train blew, shrapnel would not hit the other plane. After that lesson, he had to fly home with a stick jammed with very limited for/aft motion because of a piece of train jamming his elevator.
Excellent job!
Good stuff!
Greg over at Greg’s Airplanes must be looking over the fence smiling.
Another well researched and presented video!
Thanks for all the hard work sourcing the documents and putting it all together.
This is a top tier history channel in my opinion.
Hope you are well,
All the best
super interesting records of the losses, reasons, damage done
Great video. We are getting ever closer to the A-26 in interdiction role video.
A bit off topic, but at 3:54 there seems to be a captured french S35 tank with Wehrmachtsinsignia on a train. I seems to me that it is used as an improvised rail gun. Or is it just transported?
The P-47 Thunderbolt was an excellent strafing aircraft with those eight forward firing 50 caliber machine guns completely destroying ANYTHING in it's path! It was also the most sturdy built fighter of WWII. Later in WWII, strafing increased as the allies gained air superiority and as the Luftwaffe ran out of fuel towards the end of the war. The Luftwaffe could only make a limited response as the war came to a close, the allied pilots had pretty much free rain during their CAP patrols to strafe whatever moving target they saw on the ground. Many strafing runs were made after their initial attack on their primary targets, with most of the strafing taking place on their way back to their base on targets of opportunity such as trains, cars, trucks, troop formations, tanks, and armoured vehicles that were observed by the pilots. Some pilots were better than others in strafing. The same could be said about air to air combat (Dogfighting) as some pilots were better than others. The Thunderbolt had a wide oblique angle to hit a train across multiple cars in one run if the bullets were place in the right position and the Thunderbolt attacked from the side rather than down the line of the train. Both methods were effective, but most trains were attacked from a slight diving attack trying to hit the locomotive in the front from the side rather than from the top, or up the line of cars. Either way, all three primary fighters (P-38 Lightning, P-47 Thunderbolt, and the P-51 Mustang were excellent fighters and strafers. The Thunderbolt was the "most robust" of the airframes and by far the largest of the three planes. The P-38 for as big as it looks in photos and on TV, is a very sleek airframe and it looks much smaller in person. The Thunderbolt looks HUGE when you stand next to it, almost like a Douglas Skyraider which was made operational too late for WW2, but had the Skyraider been available earlier, it would have eclipsed the other three probably because it could carry a large ordinance payload.
Excellent video
Crack a cold one indeed! Thanks for heads up and informative video
Loved it
Good stuff.....and thanks for not using a robot voice.
Very Interesting! Thx
Nice work
So the Red Tails movie having a moving train be attacked from the back or from the front was wrong - they were supposed to hit it from the side.
Red Tails made War Thunder arcade players cringe.