Perhaps better described as a half-pike that happens to have a rifle barrel and a magazine. I didn't catch Ian mentioning an overall length but with that monster bayonet mounted the weapon appears to be about seven feet long!
Imagine being a post-Civil War cavalryman and being told that you have to throw away your seven shot Spencer repeating carbine in favor of a trapdoor Springfield.
Ian & Karl have an InRange video about this, it turns out in the hands of a mook with rudimentary training (Ian) the Spencer actually isn't any faster than a Trapdoor to load and fire. Karl has done a lot of CAS and knows exactly how to work the Spencer's action so it is noticeably faster for him.
@toeff7852 Total Rof may be the same, but having any option for follow-up while the other guy takes his time to load is different than each of you rotating what you are aiming at over and over as enemies pop up, down, or leave comabt.
Yes, it’s poetic, cinematic, and that the president would be personally involved, and have the skills to understand the technology. Gives Lincoln even more cred, if he needed any.
Pretty much any tube mag design would benefit from a cut-off, since it takes longer to reload the magazine than it does to empty it. Any box mag [enbloc, stripper clip, etc] design it would be a waste of time & energy...
@@nunyabidniz2868 Not true-the King's Patent loading gate completely negated any practicality of a magazine cutoff, since you can top off the magazine just as quickly as you can single load, and there's no extra dingus to malfunction, to remember, to accidentally nudge...in fact, there's a decent argument that it's better even for the cutoff's intended purpose, since there's less time spent with the action open to debris, and you can top off with a round sitting in the chamber so you're never stuck in a situation where your rifle is unloaded for more time than it takes to work the action. Of course, the cost is a cheaper rifle overall, and much easier and, in the case of some front-loading tubes, safer loading procedure, but...wait, those are actually benefits! Ok, I haven't found the downside to the King's gate yet, although I'm sure there is one, somewhere. But if we're starting with a tube in the stock, or the silly all-business-must-be-conducted-through-the-front-door Henry system...yeah, a cutoff makes good military sense in those cases.
@@nettles89 Agreed, except it's still easier to just drop one in the top of the action when single-loading vs. shove it in the side, work the lever, repeat. But King's loading gate *was* the killer app that enabled the tube-mag to leap to the forefront & dominate the competition so many years...
A lot of the weapons on this channel I couldn't care less about, but I do love hearing the interesting stories about how they came to be. Favorite part of the episodes.
The single point sling on a cavalry carbine was not "if" you dropped the weapon, but so that you "could" drop the weapon.. and then handle your horse, draw a pistol or saber, whatever. They also remove the need for a scabbard. Your carbine is always with you.
Looks like the gentleman at Burnside got a little wild cutting the aperture for the breechbolt......The corners look like they're a little undercut. Probably not a problem for .56-50 pressures.
This wonderfully produced channel is verging on the Academic. Always a fascinating story with tech details aplenty and historical context to gladden the heart of any history buff. 👍🏻👍🏼
Doing new videos on guns you've covered before is just fine, provided you do new stuff too. You're much more skilled these days, and turning out much better content.
There still are some pretty long weapons around, like the french suppressed .50 BMG bolt-action rifle (PGM Hecate II), 1800 mm in length. www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/12/pgm-hecate-ii-50bmg-anti-materiel-rifle/
I have to say, I think I like the rifle version more than the carbine, think this video will be added to my favorites Forgotten Weapons list, thanks Ian.
The rifle version was used my mounted infantry, though. Wilder's Lightning Brigade used them. And the first order for Spencer rifles was from the US Navy. When it arrived (700 of them), the Army "appropriated" them, even though the rifles were fitted with the Navy saber bayonet. The Navy had to reorder and wait.
Damn! Finger was hovering over the keyboard ready to remark on the previous video when gun jesus points me out at the end of this one. Well played sir; unlike Napoleon III.
Mr Spencer got his start in my home town of Manchester Connecticut working for the Cheney Brothers silk mill as a mechanic,the Manchester historical society museum has a few nice examples of his firearms.
I've found Spencer rife bullets in Union Cavalry positions on the retreat from Gettysburg. Both Killpatrick and Buford had men with them. They really wanted to get the Rebs. I would say they were the assault weapon of the day. Paper Cartridges has a video on them and rate of fire. It's truly impressive the amount of lead that can be put down range. They got off 14 shots in less than a minute compared to three at best from a musket.
To those who complain about the springfiel:at the time spencer nor winchester could handle mor powerfull cartrindges.and the truth is the spencers action was only made with short csse links The winchester in 1876 made toggle link upgrades to handle longer cases,but the gun was found to not rugged enough for military service
A couple corrections: (1) despite the cartridge designation 'Number 56', the Model 1860 Spencer cartridge was actually .52 caliber/rimfire. After the Civil War, the Government converted about 12000 Model 1860 carbines to .50 caliber/rimfire by re-lining the barrel, and the Model 1865 carbines were produced with this barrel diameter but 2" shorter. It was from this Model 1865 that the Government subsequently converted about 1100 to the rifle shown. (2) the Spencer carbine was eventually replaced after the Civil War by the Sharps Model 1868 conversion to chamber the more powerful .50 caliber/centerfire cartridge, which could not be done with the Spencer. The Sharps was then ultimately replaced by the Springfield 1873 'Trapdoor' carbine chambered for the now-standard .45 caliber/centerfire cartridge.
@@mckendreelong6864 I also have a .50 Burnside w/Stabler in very good condition - got it a number of years ago in Cody, Wyoming - the dealer also thru-in a mint copy of Roy Marcot's book on the complete history of Spencers for nothing, worth about $300 on Amazon now! I've documented summaries of the Spencer/Sharps(conversion)/Springfield/Krag Carbine succession as it's my favorite period of American firearms history, so I think I know what I'm 'talking' about - as apparently you do also.
@@johnkuechle9563 I envy you; keep sharing. I write gun books, thinly disguised as historical novels, so I've tried to collect all the firearms in my books. Still missing a few originals; Paterson Colts, Walker, Henry, and '66 Yellowboy, though I have some repro's. I'd attach one of my short stories as an example, but youtube doesn't allow that. Mike www.mckendreelong.com
@@mckendreelong6864 I've also got an original Springfield 1873 Carbine, but that's all. Looked you up on Amazon, so I ordered 'Higher Ground' to read about it's use. Then noted your website bio - think we're age-related. I'm a Naval Academy '66 grad - served on Nuclear Subs for 8 years. After a nuclear engineering job, eventually retired from Boeing after 24 years.
It would be wonderful if a manufacturer started production of the various obsolete rimfire cartridges, everything from .25 on up. There are so many firearms that need ammo.
@@nathanielkidd2840 Don't think any of the applicable firearms in question even come anywhere near to falling afoul of the PRK AW laws, given their antique status, traditional steel & wood stocks [w/ no protruding pistol grip], not semi-auto, etc. etc. configuration...
I think what is needed 1st is a manufacturer to make a modern repro [say 1866 Winchester] that qualifies as "antique" under the clause for "chambered in out of date, NLA ammo" and then after everyone has bought their [modern, CNC'd, high quality] wall-hanger, then starts volume production of 44HF rimfire to feed them. Then do the same routine for other classic antique arms, until eventually they've got a whole production line of obsolete rimfire calibers with enough demand to keep the lines running profitably at a high enough volume to keep the costs down to where people will keep buying the ammo...
Nunya Bidniz you can get an MSR chambered in .22LR I realize that this is laughable in many respects, but if there was a ballsy firearms manufacturer out there that partnered with a ammunition manufacturer that had the resources to funnel into bringing back those old school rounds, then there is a gap in the market that can be exploited.
@@nathanielkidd2840 The point of the repro route I mentioned is that it is an FFL-free sale, just like any other antique [unless you live in New Jersey, then you're fooked, but then, you already knew that if that was the case. Because Jersey...] AFAIK, the gunmageddon laws didn't retain the rimfire exemption that had been on the books in CA since '89, but then I haven't been paying close attention to the fine details, I just got rid of any offending traits across the board. Back during Bubba Jeffy's AW ban that ended in '04, Centurion [Aguila] announced some rimfire that was going to be size for size the same as .223Rem, the idea being all you'd need was a change in the bolt & firing pin in order to run it thru any existing rifle chambered for .223Rem [with the obvious nod to ARs, with their Lego-like modularity making them ideal to switch] but like all vapor-ware, it never materialized. Once the AW ban sunset, there was no market niche for it. Rimfire is a lot harder to make than most folks realize, and it only makes sense in the HUGE volumes of production of 22lr [which is why that round is here to stay, and also rans like 22WMR and 17HMR will never be more than poor cousins, barely hanging on... It's a numbers game, & they just don't have the numbers to prosper. That's why the 25 Stevens Long is no more: once it supplied the parent brass for the 22WRF & 22WMR, it faded from history.]
Pedersoli makes a working reproduction of the 1860 Spencer Carbine I wonder if a Rifle Conversion will be coming up soon? Or a US assembled ( aka SA) version based on Carbine action??? .56-50 is easy to make.( as a centrefire) Doc AV
As a cavalryman I'd wonder what would be the preferred service arm, a trapdoor Springfield or the Spencer, on paper youd think the Spencer however ive heard they were less than ergonomic in practice, I understand several troopers would often take leaver action Winchester's of various makes and models but from a standisation perspective that would be problematic
During the CW, the U.S. military was a mish-mash of state militia & guard units as well as U.S. Army regulars. State units were free to arm with whatever their state legislatures allowed. Confederate units were so ill-equipped & -supplied that they often were reliant upon captured materiel...
@@LeArquebus Americans would easily solve the problem of mass shootings done with legally owned weapons by introducing a simple psychological test for all gun owners. I am not American unfortunately, but I can tell you it's much worse here in Romania were I live. Poverty+ Ciminality+ Mad idiots=15% of the population. Add weapons to this ecuation and you got the ideea...Thank God we don't have wepons here!
Wouldn't it be a .50-56 though if they sized it down to 50 caliber? Like the 45-70 is 45 caliber. I guess I just asssumed it was standard to put the bullet diameter in the front?
It seems to have been the contemporary notation for rou necked down cartridges. The British .577/450 cartridge, used in the Martini-Henry fired a .45 bullet from a necked down .577 case.
Probably political. The US was pretty isolationist back then and didn't want to be seen favoring one country or another in a war which could result in the US getting dragged into a foreign war. You know just like what actually happened 30 or 40 years later.
Given Grant's cabinet is viewed historically as having been pretty corrupt & he was generally [a pun!] blithely unaware, probably one of his cronies suggested he put the kibosh on sales thinking they'd set something up later that *they'd* get a taste from & it never did develop...
Just watched your vid on the spencer. Heard a histry show yrs ago about a calvory detail going out for wood and was ambushed by indians. The wood cutting detail had just got new spencers. And came back because they had spencers. Im pretty sure those boys saw nothing wromg with spencers that day. Lol
Man. I wonder what happens if you replace all those old guns ammo blackpowder with modern smokeless ones. Would they be uncontrollable, burst the barrels, or even faster and deadlier?.
Steve Hansen It is about the length of the weapon. In modern usage, the term "musket" is often used to describe any musket length firearm, whether smooth-bore or rifled, or breech-loading or muzzle-loading. Another common feature of muskets is that the forestock is usually much longer, reaching very close to the muzzle, probably justified by the resulting stabilization of the barrel against harmonics that would adversely affect accuracy. If you want to be hyper correct, this weapon should be referred to as "musket length rifle". . . but "musket" will do fine in most conversations.
Power and accuracy at range. The Native Americans had would not just stand their ground with while the Cavalry rode to within effective of the Spencers. And if they had Winchester 1866s the Cavalry wouldn't want to get close to them either.
It was probably just easier than taking them off and plugging the holes in the stock. Also some US Army infantry batallions on the Frontier had mounted companies. Usually riding mules. The carbine slings might have been useful for them.
Bear with me here for a minute, I walk a lot, pretty much everywhere. People like to yell inane stuff at people while they are walking. I usually ignore this. I've gotten so good that sometimes I don't even hear it. During these hot humid summers up in Minnesota it is fool hardy to leave without water. I carry my water in a Rucksack that is hydration bladder compatible. On the back of my Ruck I have placed a Forgotten Weapons patch as well as Ian's patch from Project Lightening. Ever since then instead of the usual inane crap that gets yelled at me I get the much better GUN JESUS RULES!
Dimensionally impossible. This is an action for short stubby cartridges of pretty low pressure. 45/70 is long and high pressure by comparison. The size of Spencer type action you'd need to handle a 45/70 sized cartridge would be quite massive and heavy, enough so to make a Winchester 1876 action look compact and light.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 Id like to see a animation on this by Bruno from C&Rsenal. I thought it was a rolling block type action with a tube loader. Did not realize it was length specific. Too bad. Thanks for the info.
@@coldandaloof7166 You can see the relative length of the action when Ian demonstrates the Stabler cut-off: the entirety of the Spencer action is basically that rotating block. Longer cartridge? Bigger disc. Figure the length of the original 56-56 cartridge is ~ 1/2 the diameter of the disc; now you want to double the OAL of your cartridge? That's a mighty big hunk o' iron your going to have on the end of your lever! ;-)
A quick question for more well educated people: Wouldn't a lever action rifle be quicker to fire than a bolt action one? Let's say that they use modern or pseudo modern bullets?
FlexX Vodka! My understanding is you can’t run a lever gun laying down or in a trench so the fighting in ww1 pushed most militaries towards bolts and then we went straight to semi and more modern designs.
A good bolt action with a box magazine is really just as quick, simpler, cheaper, stronger, on average inherently more accurate, quicker and easier to reload at least until the 1895. Just better in every way for military use. The one possible big exception would be 19th century cavalry where a lever gun could make a lot of sense.
Looks like you have a rifle attached to your bayonet.
This comment made my day
Nice one! 😂
It’s so looong you Could poke the enemies a football field away
Long range aiming point! Reach out touch target with bayonet, then fire.
Perhaps better described as a half-pike that happens to have a rifle barrel and a magazine. I didn't catch Ian mentioning an overall length but with that monster bayonet mounted the weapon appears to be about seven feet long!
Imagine being a post-Civil War cavalryman and being told that you have to throw away your seven shot Spencer repeating carbine in favor of a trapdoor Springfield.
Ian & Karl have an InRange video about this, it turns out in the hands of a mook with rudimentary training (Ian) the Spencer actually isn't any faster than a Trapdoor to load and fire. Karl has done a lot of CAS and knows exactly how to work the Spencer's action so it is noticeably faster for him.
@toeff7852 Total Rof may be the same, but having any option for follow-up while the other guy takes his time to load is different than each of you rotating what you are aiming at over and over as enemies pop up, down, or leave comabt.
At lease you have a Evans carbine
@@MalikCarr how is the video titled?
@@Lemard77 ruclips.net/video/V2Id_p72lP8/видео.html
Spencer going out to shoot with President Lincoln is one of my favorite gun stories of all time
The AK Geek, I like the one where Eugene Stoner just happened to be at a picnic in PA. with Curtis LeMay and just happened to have an AR15 (or AR10).
Yes, it’s poetic, cinematic, and that the president would be personally involved, and have the skills to understand the technology. Gives Lincoln even more cred, if he needed any.
Not as good as the burgess folding shotgun being presented to Teddy Roosevelt
And on the white house lawn no less.
The Spencer is one of the very few repeating rifles that the magazine cut off makes some sense for.
Pretty much any tube mag design would benefit from a cut-off, since it takes longer to reload the magazine than it does to empty it. Any box mag [enbloc, stripper clip, etc] design it would be a waste of time & energy...
@@nunyabidniz2868 Not true-the King's Patent loading gate completely negated any practicality of a magazine cutoff, since you can top off the magazine just as quickly as you can single load, and there's no extra dingus to malfunction, to remember, to accidentally nudge...in fact, there's a decent argument that it's better even for the cutoff's intended purpose, since there's less time spent with the action open to debris, and you can top off with a round sitting in the chamber so you're never stuck in a situation where your rifle is unloaded for more time than it takes to work the action. Of course, the cost is a cheaper rifle overall, and much easier and, in the case of some front-loading tubes, safer loading procedure, but...wait, those are actually benefits! Ok, I haven't found the downside to the King's gate yet, although I'm sure there is one, somewhere.
But if we're starting with a tube in the stock, or the silly all-business-must-be-conducted-through-the-front-door Henry system...yeah, a cutoff makes good military sense in those cases.
@@nettles89 Agreed, except it's still easier to just drop one in the top of the action when single-loading vs. shove it in the side, work the lever, repeat. But King's loading gate *was* the killer app that enabled the tube-mag to leap to the forefront & dominate the competition so many years...
Nunya Bidniz. You called the King's loading gate an app. That's funny.
Nicely done! I am Christopher Minor Spencer's great grandson. My grandmother, Vesta Spencer Taylor waxed on about her father and his achievements.
US Calvary: let’s switch from a 7 shot repeating rifle to a single shot trap door.
Gen. Custer : Sounds good.......
Duuh?
Reno and Benteen held off the same warriors with trapdoor carbines and revolvers because of a better defensive position.
"White House lawn shooting." Today, the phrase might have a bit different meaning.
When I'm POTUS, there will be a firing range at the White House. I can't wait to shoot the Secret Service P 90.
The rifle looks better than the carbine in my opinion.
wonderful work Ian
My uncle jeff restored one of these and it took him four years!!! The thing was in a barn and rusted to all hell, but he pulled it off
Gun Jesus never needs to justify his sermon. We humbly listen and appreciate all of his teachings. :D
ughh
Lmao
That was good
A lot of the weapons on this channel I couldn't care less about, but I do love hearing the interesting stories about how they came to be. Favorite part of the episodes.
The single point sling on a cavalry carbine was not "if" you dropped the weapon, but so that you "could" drop the weapon.. and then handle your horse, draw a pistol or saber, whatever. They also remove the need for a scabbard. Your carbine is always with you.
0:19 Ian seriously said "cool *little* sub variante"...but with the attached bayonet it looks like it's almost two meters long.
Mr. Beauchamp :" This is a Spencer rifle right?"
Clint Eastwood "Thats Right" *load the gun while he's talking*
Love this scene.
What movie?
@@godofimagination "Unforgiven" from 1992
“I thought maybe something was bent!”
Great movie everyone should watch
Looks like the gentleman at Burnside got a little wild cutting the aperture for the breechbolt......The corners look like they're a little undercut. Probably not a problem for .56-50 pressures.
Fact the term side burns came from General Burnsides name
how the frig do people like you exist, who can just pop off with archaic gat knowledge like that?? very cool
@@USS_Grey_Ghost a Major Street in Portland is named *Burnside.*
This wonderfully produced channel is verging on the Academic. Always a fascinating story with tech details aplenty and historical context to gladden the heart of any history buff. 👍🏻👍🏼
Doing new videos on guns you've covered before is just fine, provided you do new stuff too. You're much more skilled these days, and turning out much better content.
With the bayonet, this thing is looooooooong!
There still are some pretty long weapons around, like the french suppressed .50 BMG bolt-action rifle (PGM Hecate II), 1800 mm in length.
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/12/pgm-hecate-ii-50bmg-anti-materiel-rifle/
Without the bayonet it looks pretty long too
All the better to reach out and touch someone.
It went from a weapon to be used on horse back to weapon that a foot soldier could use to take down a charging horse.
That's not a bayonet... *THIS* is a bayonet!
Cool Rifle , Thank you for bring this rifle to light .
great info
Rdr2 community greatly appreciate all of your western videos. Thx a lot!!! I would love to see Ian in the next John Wick film
Ian when he hears about a carbine to rifle conversion: 🤔
Ian when he finds out it almost went to France: 🤩
Spencer made the first Bullpup, cased ammo, lever action, fully deployed rifle.
petition to call it the noodle rifle
I'm for it but y tho?
why not
No.
@@MrDmitriRavenoff yes
Where it at do
Love these 19th century weapons.
Lincoln. Hear me out. I have this thing called a Gatling gun. Wanna test it out?
I have to say, I think I like the rifle version more than the carbine, think this video will be added to my favorites Forgotten Weapons list, thanks Ian.
Oh hell yeah, my daily gunfix is delivered today in the form of Spencer's
This made me think of that great movie, Quigley Down Under, but that was a Sharps rifle he used, not a Spencer, if I remember correctly.
The rifle version was used my mounted infantry, though. Wilder's Lightning Brigade used them.
And the first order for Spencer rifles was from the US Navy. When it arrived (700 of them), the Army "appropriated" them, even though the rifles were fitted with the Navy saber bayonet. The Navy had to reorder and wait.
Damn! Finger was hovering over the keyboard ready to remark on the previous video when gun jesus points me out at the end of this one. Well played sir; unlike Napoleon III.
Another great video by Gun Jesus
Thank you Ian .
I find the economic aspect as interesting as the the technical. Interesting that the international arms market was flourishing in the 1870's.
Had no idea that any firearms were produced in Rhode Island, I'm just a little more proud of being a native Rhode Islander!
The 1941 Johnson rifles were built in Cranston, RI.
Mr Spencer got his start in my home town of Manchester Connecticut working for the Cheney Brothers silk mill as a mechanic,the Manchester historical society museum has a few nice examples of his firearms.
I've found Spencer rife bullets in Union Cavalry positions on the retreat from Gettysburg. Both Killpatrick and Buford had men with them. They really wanted to get the Rebs. I would say they were the assault weapon of the day. Paper Cartridges has a video on them and rate of fire. It's truly impressive the amount of lead that can be put down range. They got off 14 shots in less than a minute compared to three at best from a musket.
I think the stabiler cutoff is the coolest part
Beautifle looking rifle and system.
Man , this one is pristine as fuck .
Good too see Ian hasn’t lost his magical power of summoning rifles from his lap
Custer might have appreciated having these around in 1876.
11:24 who knew RIA had an in-house shooting range to test all their items before auction? j/k
Cool thanks Ian
Saw the title, and all I can say is - YESSSSSSSSSS!
Fascinating!
So, there hasn't been much of a change in government spending strategy over the years!
When something goes right it's purely by chance. Or someone in the know sidestepping the chain of command.
To those who complain about the springfiel:at the time spencer nor winchester could handle mor powerfull cartrindges.and the truth is the spencers action was only made with short csse links
The winchester in 1876 made toggle link upgrades to handle longer cases,but the gun was found to not rugged enough for military service
Imagine .50 cal being standard issue. Todays governments would lose their minds.
.50 AE for the pistols and SMG's, .50 Beowulf for the rifles/carbines, and .50 BMG for the snipers/HMG's
Perhaps, if smokeless powder was never invented. What you lack in muzzle velovity you compensate with projectile mass.
not to mention target shooting on the WH lawn....
".50cal" means little though. There so much more that go into a cartridge than the diameter of the projectile
A .56-56 Spencer had about 1.5kJ, 23g@370m/s. 5.56 has 1.8kJ, 11.2g@1100m/s. The 5.56 even has a higher impulse.
That's a pretty rifle.
Spencer brand spear.
You can't beat a rifle with a bayonet it do look proper.
*Arsenals most hated weapon*
A couple corrections: (1) despite the cartridge designation 'Number 56', the Model 1860 Spencer cartridge was actually .52 caliber/rimfire. After the Civil War, the Government converted about 12000 Model 1860 carbines to .50 caliber/rimfire by re-lining the barrel, and the Model 1865 carbines were produced with this barrel diameter but 2" shorter. It was from this Model 1865 that the Government subsequently converted about 1100 to the rifle shown. (2) the Spencer carbine was eventually replaced after the Civil War by the Sharps Model 1868 conversion to chamber the more powerful .50 caliber/centerfire cartridge, which could not be done with the Spencer. The Sharps was then ultimately replaced by the Springfield 1873 'Trapdoor' carbine chambered for the now-standard .45 caliber/centerfire cartridge.
I'm surprised no one else caught this; I have one .56-.50 Carbine (Burnside, w/Stabler cutoff) and a .56-.46 Sporting Rifle
@@mckendreelong6864 I also have a .50 Burnside w/Stabler in very good condition - got it a number of years ago in Cody, Wyoming - the dealer also thru-in a mint copy of Roy Marcot's book on the complete history of Spencers for nothing, worth about $300 on Amazon now! I've documented summaries of the Spencer/Sharps(conversion)/Springfield/Krag Carbine succession as it's my favorite period of American firearms history, so I think I know what I'm 'talking' about - as apparently you do also.
@@johnkuechle9563 I envy you; keep sharing. I write gun books, thinly disguised as historical novels, so I've tried to collect all the firearms in my books. Still missing a few originals; Paterson Colts, Walker, Henry, and '66 Yellowboy, though I have some repro's. I'd attach one of my short stories as an example, but youtube doesn't allow that.
Mike
www.mckendreelong.com
@@mckendreelong6864 I've also got an original Springfield 1873 Carbine, but that's all. Looked you up on Amazon, so I ordered 'Higher Ground' to read about it's use. Then noted your website bio - think we're age-related. I'm a Naval Academy '66 grad - served on Nuclear Subs for 8 years. After a nuclear engineering job, eventually retired from Boeing after 24 years.
“I see you still got that Spencer rifle” - William Munny
1109. They made 1,109 2 banded rifles. 2 of which I own.
Adjusted for inflation 6 US dollars then is about 117 US dollars today.
30 dollars then is about 587 dollars today.
Tough for a left-hander with that sling ring.
why is a .54 caliber cartridge small???
my grandfather had one just like it hanging above his fire place
Very Cool rifle !!!!!!
It would be wonderful if a manufacturer started production of the various obsolete rimfire cartridges, everything from .25 on up. There are so many firearms that need ammo.
The best part about that is it would completely sidestep California’s “Assault weapon” ban, as that “law” is predicated on a centerfire cartridge.
@@nathanielkidd2840 Don't think any of the applicable firearms in question even come anywhere near to falling afoul of the PRK AW laws, given their antique status, traditional steel & wood stocks [w/ no protruding pistol grip], not semi-auto, etc. etc. configuration...
I think what is needed 1st is a manufacturer to make a modern repro [say 1866 Winchester] that qualifies as "antique" under the clause for "chambered in out of date, NLA ammo" and then after everyone has bought their [modern, CNC'd, high quality] wall-hanger, then starts volume production of 44HF rimfire to feed them. Then do the same routine for other classic antique arms, until eventually they've got a whole production line of obsolete rimfire calibers with enough demand to keep the lines running profitably at a high enough volume to keep the costs down to where people will keep buying the ammo...
Nunya Bidniz you can get an MSR chambered in .22LR I realize that this is laughable in many respects, but if there was a ballsy firearms manufacturer out there that partnered with a ammunition manufacturer that had the resources to funnel into bringing back those old school rounds, then there is a gap in the market that can be exploited.
@@nathanielkidd2840 The point of the repro route I mentioned is that it is an FFL-free sale, just like any other antique [unless you live in New Jersey, then you're fooked, but then, you already knew that if that was the case. Because Jersey...] AFAIK, the gunmageddon laws didn't retain the rimfire exemption that had been on the books in CA since '89, but then I haven't been paying close attention to the fine details, I just got rid of any offending traits across the board. Back during Bubba Jeffy's AW ban that ended in '04, Centurion [Aguila] announced some rimfire that was going to be size for size the same as .223Rem, the idea being all you'd need was a change in the bolt & firing pin in order to run it thru any existing rifle chambered for .223Rem [with the obvious nod to ARs, with their Lego-like modularity making them ideal to switch] but like all vapor-ware, it never materialized. Once the AW ban sunset, there was no market niche for it. Rimfire is a lot harder to make than most folks realize, and it only makes sense in the HUGE volumes of production of 22lr [which is why that round is here to stay, and also rans like 22WMR and 17HMR will never be more than poor cousins, barely hanging on... It's a numbers game, & they just don't have the numbers to prosper. That's why the 25 Stevens Long is no more: once it supplied the parent brass for the 22WRF & 22WMR, it faded from history.]
Wasn't the last video with a Spencer about a smooth bore conversion? If I remember right, it to had a sling swivel.
Bummer that they don’t make the ammunition for those anymore...or in the past 130 or so years. I always thought that the Spencer was a nifty design.
Pedersoli makes a working reproduction of the 1860 Spencer Carbine I wonder if a Rifle Conversion will be coming up soon? Or a US assembled ( aka SA) version based on Carbine action???
.56-50 is easy to make.( as a centrefire)
Doc AV
Im failing to see why they thought it was a good idea to change it from an amazing 7 shot repeater to an OK single shot rifle?
"Yes but what does it have to do with France??"
8:39
Ah there it is....
I wonder if the sling rings forces you to alter your grip.
Maybe for a lefty
@@stevailo lefties coping since the beginning of time hahaha
Supposedly my grandmother has one of these that I'm supposed to get someday
Did any of those get converted into a centerfire cartridge like the 50-70 ?
Thanks Ian. Bet they didn't sale for anything close to that $30 offer when when they finally dumped 'em.
As a cavalryman I'd wonder what would be the preferred service arm, a trapdoor Springfield or the Spencer, on paper youd think the Spencer however ive heard they were less than ergonomic in practice, I understand several troopers would often take leaver action Winchester's of various makes and models but from a standisation perspective that would be problematic
During the CW, the U.S. military was a mish-mash of state militia & guard units as well as U.S. Army regulars. State units were free to arm with whatever their state legislatures allowed. Confederate units were so ill-equipped & -supplied that they often were reliant upon captured materiel...
Where does one find such detailed history on Spencer refits and experimentals?
Ayyy another vid
Spencer convinced Lincoln the same way most people convince anti-gun people that guns are actually great
TheAngrySnail shooting is fun, doesnt mean that you americans are mature enough for it.
@@LeArquebus Americans would easily solve the problem of mass shootings done with legally owned weapons by introducing a simple psychological test for all gun owners. I am not American unfortunately, but I can tell you it's much worse here in Romania were I live. Poverty+ Ciminality+ Mad idiots=15% of the population. Add weapons to this ecuation and you got the ideea...Thank God we don't have wepons here!
Wouldn't it be a .50-56 though if they sized it down to 50 caliber? Like the 45-70 is 45 caliber. I guess I just asssumed it was standard to put the bullet diameter in the front?
It seems to have been the contemporary notation for rou
necked down cartridges.
The British .577/450 cartridge, used in the Martini-Henry fired a .45 bullet from a necked down .577 case.
Nice
A six doller 50 cal 😳
Always remember that not all 50cals are created equal! 😀 Some go bang and one goes BOOM!
@@williamkeith8944 imagine inflation just dissappeared suddenly
What was President Grant's reason for stopping surplus sales? I am guessing it has something to do with the reconstruction.
Probably political. The US was pretty isolationist back then and didn't want to be seen favoring one country or another in a war which could result in the US getting dragged into a foreign war. You know just like what actually happened 30 or 40 years later.
Given Grant's cabinet is viewed historically as having been pretty corrupt & he was generally [a pun!] blithely unaware, probably one of his cronies suggested he put the kibosh on sales thinking they'd set something up later that *they'd* get a taste from & it never did develop...
are you planning to do a video about the AR180
Hey Ian, have you ever seen a Spencer 1882 shotgun?
Just watched your vid on the spencer. Heard a histry show yrs ago about a calvory detail going out for wood and was ambushed by indians. The wood cutting detail had just got new spencers. And came back because they had spencers. Im pretty sure those boys saw nothing wromg with spencers that day. Lol
I wish the reproductions want so expensive I've wanted one for so long
Man. I wonder what happens if you replace all those old guns ammo blackpowder with modern smokeless ones. Would they be uncontrollable, burst the barrels, or even faster and deadlier?.
In most cases, to my knowledge, you would risk blowing up the gun. There are exceptions, but generally speaking it’s a bad idea.
Can you that that to the shooting range it would be a cool video to watch
I thought it was these that the French bought but the wrong caliber ammo was sent, or am I thinking of another gun?
You use "rifle" and "musket" at various times in the video. What is it? Rifle or smoothbore?
Steve Hansen
It is about the length of the weapon.
In modern usage, the term "musket" is often used to describe any musket length firearm, whether smooth-bore or rifled, or breech-loading or muzzle-loading.
Another common feature of muskets is that the forestock is usually much longer, reaching very close to the muzzle, probably justified by the resulting stabilization of the barrel against harmonics that would adversely affect accuracy.
If you want to be hyper correct, this weapon should be referred to as "musket length rifle". . . but "musket" will do fine in most conversations.
Bayonet - when you absolutely positively need to impale someone on a horse. Three meters away.
Why would the calvary switch from the Spencer to the single shot trapdoor?
Power and accuracy at range.
The Native Americans had would not just stand their ground with while the Cavalry rode to within effective of the Spencers.
And if they had Winchester 1866s the Cavalry wouldn't want to get close to them either.
Looks like they gave it a leftover Enfield rifle ramrod as a cleaning rod.
Spencer's to the front!
Hey nothing is wrong with taking an older model and sprucing it right back up after a time. Like the old video and the old Spencer
Cool
Can’t believe they left the saddle ring on. Struggling to see an argument to have one.
It was probably just easier than taking them off and plugging the holes in the stock.
Also some US Army infantry batallions on the Frontier had mounted companies. Usually riding mules. The carbine slings might have been useful for them.
I want one just for the bayonet.
Bear with me here for a minute, I walk a lot, pretty much everywhere. People like to yell inane stuff at people while they are walking. I usually ignore this. I've gotten so good that sometimes I don't even hear it. During these hot humid summers up in Minnesota it is fool hardy to leave without water. I carry my water in a Rucksack that is hydration bladder compatible. On the back of my Ruck I have placed a Forgotten Weapons patch as well as Ian's patch from Project Lightening. Ever since then instead of the usual inane crap that gets yelled at me I get the much better GUN JESUS RULES!
1871 was a good year. *Laughs In Prussian*
Too bad they didnt convert them to 45/70. That would have been a kick ass gun and one I would take any day over a trapdoor.
Dimensionally impossible. This is an action for short stubby cartridges of pretty low pressure. 45/70 is long and high pressure by comparison. The size of Spencer type action you'd need to handle a 45/70 sized cartridge would be quite massive and heavy, enough so to make a Winchester 1876 action look compact and light.
@@USSEnterpriseA1701 Id like to see a animation on this by Bruno from C&Rsenal. I thought it was a rolling block type action with a tube loader. Did not realize it was length specific. Too bad. Thanks for the info.
@@coldandaloof7166 You can see the relative length of the action when Ian demonstrates the Stabler cut-off: the entirety of the Spencer action is basically that rotating block. Longer cartridge? Bigger disc. Figure the length of the original 56-56 cartridge is ~ 1/2 the diameter of the disc; now you want to double the OAL of your cartridge? That's a mighty big hunk o' iron your going to have on the end of your lever! ;-)
A quick question for more well educated people: Wouldn't a lever action rifle be quicker to fire than a bolt action one? Let's say that they use modern or pseudo modern bullets?
FlexX Vodka! My understanding is you can’t run a lever gun laying down or in a trench so the fighting in ww1 pushed most militaries towards bolts and then we went straight to semi and more modern designs.
@@kevinsnyder15 ok thats a good point,now it makes much more sence...so it was an operational enviorment based decision and not a mechanical one...
The Spencer is sort of slow since you need to work the lever and cock the gun where as the Henry rifle needs to just work the lever.
A good bolt action with a box magazine is really just as quick, simpler, cheaper, stronger, on average inherently more accurate, quicker and easier to reload at least until the 1895. Just better in every way for military use. The one possible big exception would be 19th century cavalry where a lever gun could make a lot of sense.
@@wingracer1614 ah ok... it was logical then...